Hi, welcome to another episode of Interfaiths,
our podcast for the course here at Florida International
University. I'm here with Jason, who's going
to talk a little bit about himself, where he
grew up and a little bit about his background.
And we'll get into his time here as a student
and some of the work that we're doing together
for our Interfaith Dialogue. So with that, I'll
turn it over to Jason and talk to us a little
bit about who you are. Well, thank you for inviting
me. It's a pleasure. I grew up in Porto, Portugal.
It's the second biggest town in the country in
the north. I would say I was basically the only
Jewish person my age at the time growing up at
that period of time in Porto. It's a unique situation
because I'm not really all that religious or
didn't grow up all that religious. But my parents
felt a need to do something with the community.
It's a very old community, but it was kind of...
dwindling dying uh and so you know they felt
they had to do something and they did and my
dad eventually became president uh and this was
of course before i was born that they began participating
but of course i had a bar mitzvah you know i
went there frequently for all the high holidays
um but it's the trend the trans the the the transfer
from porto to miami and the shift from like a
place that has zero Jews to a place that has
all Jews in places like 41st Street where you
literally see Hebrew building signs, right? That's
a shift that's very bizarre and hard to describe.
But I would say that that's the unique part of
this. Okay. Talk to us about, so what was your
first experiences with Judaism? my first like
that i can remember yeah because you can remember
yeah um well i remember being very little and
being at the at the sukkah on the terrace of
the the synagogue okay um and you know they they
made like a whole table out there um and the
rabbi because i was very interested at the time
right and what rabbi was doing the whole thing
he said you know you're going to be a little
rabbi and for some reason at the time that completely
turned me off. I'm like, Oh my God, the hell
did he, why is he telling me this? Why is he
trying to, you know, turn me into, into him?
I'm like, okay. So, um, I just remember as a
little kid finding that very bizarre that he
was, you know, so interested. I didn't really
realize what the fact that there was, um, that
he felt a need to try and get the younger generation
into it. Right. That I was, you know, he felt
that I was this, this hope, right? Yeah, exactly.
This glimmer of hope for the community. But at
the time, I almost felt rebellious and like,
oh, now that he's telling me, I don't like it
anymore. You know, it's like when, you know,
you enjoy a subject and suddenly it's like you're
learning in schools. I don't like that anymore.
You know, but but, you know, it took me later
to it took me, you know, a few years of growing
up and experience in life to understand. You
know, obviously, I was a bit silly as a kid and
the intentions were definitely pure there on
his part. So growing up in a place where there
were very few Jews. What was your sense of community
like there? Oh, I mean, very strong bond, of
course. I mean, this was the only little Jewish
sphere that existed, right? So the funny thing
is my parents would drive, right? Because we
lived very far away. We lived like 30 minutes
outside of Porto, so we'd have to drive into
the city. And we would park down the block so
they wouldn't see that we would. We were driving.
It's like, oh, yes, of course. We're walking,
you know. Of course, they would see our car.
They knew we were driving. We just wanted to
play the game. But, you know, the sense of community
was very strong. We had a huge respect for each
other. There was, for all the high holidays,
I mean, everybody knows each other, right? So
it's not like there's a... Here, if you go to
the Chabad in Midtown, right? You'll see that
there's... I love the Chabad Midtown, but there's
a lot of people, right? People come and go. It's
a bigger place, right? So on the high holidays,
it's full. You'll see people you've never seen
before. And I love that, too. There's an element
to that, that you always meet new people that
you can connect to. But in the community at home,
in the Porta Jewish community, these are people
that I've known since I was this tall, since
I was a little kid, right? Since I was a toddler,
literally. So the sense community there, of course,
is very strong. These people are like family.
Of course, that doesn't mean that there weren't...
you know obviously issues especially with the
when it became political in the sense that there
was an immigration thing it was a i'm sure it's
been public a lot of people have heard about
it about how um if you can prove sephardic jewish
lineage from portugal you know from before the
you know from the period of the inquisition uh
then you can get citizenship and that's what
of course a lot of people managed to do jews
you know fled the ottoman empire north africa
um they managed to gain portuguese citizenship
through this program there were two rival programs
yeah well the spanish one of course but within
portugal one through lisbon and one through porto
and they're slightly different systems but there
was a bit of a a rivalry between the communities
right so you know that's not unusual right but
uh but other than that of course there's you
know huge sense of community okay all right well
wonderful um And so then you go from there to
coming here and living in Miami. How has that
changed in terms of your Jewish identity? One
would think that being in a place where there
are no Jews makes you feel like you stand out
more as being Jewish. But that isn't really the
case. There's almost like an incentive to hide
it. You don't really feel that identity. keep
it away you know from the public sphere but then
when you're here you don't really have that same
feeling because there's so many jews it's like
okay well what does it mean to be jewish what
does it mean to you know culturally openly to
be jewish um so i would say became much more
connected to my jewish i mean i also grew up
that's the other thing because i came at 11 so
i i don't know how much of that is just because
of the exposure to that or if it's just because
of me you know growing up and finding my way
in life um but definitely the the presence of
a jewish community here makes it uh easier to
be able to associate with that right to feel
you know you can wear a magen david or a kippah
and walk on the street and not feel like oh you
know i'm culturally out of place right in this
spot um in portugal of course it's a very welcoming
country but it is a you know very catholic country
and people aren't used to it so they see that
it's like That's odd. Maybe it's a tourist or
something. They don't make that connection that
there can be people that are Jewish that are
Portuguese here. So I would say that that was
the big shift, was feeling more open. I would
say I went voluntarily to these things, to a
lot of Jewish events, without my parents, obviously.
My parents would go. When I was in high school,
I would go to stuff. But again, I don't know
what part of that is just exposure to that or
if it's just... Growing up here, right? Because
I came here at 11. And of course, I wouldn't
have done that if I was a kid. Not that there
were any available, because there were no youth
Jewish events. There may be now. Now there is
a larger Jewish community in my town. So what
about being here at FIU? How has your experience
been? Oh, amazing. Amazing. I mean, there's a
very large Jewish community here, a huge presence.
I would say that people are very, very welcoming.
All religious communities overall. There's no
problems. People are super friendly with each
other. I mean, obviously, there's some issues
that there's anywhere, but I think FIU is among
the best, really. So, I mean, yeah, I only have
positive things to say. I did stuff with Chabad,
with Hillel, all sorts of Jewish organizations,
and I was still here. I try to still come when
I can, try to participate in their events. I
help sometimes organize stuff here and there.
But other than that... I really just come for
the social side of it. Because I think that there's
something that's unique and not replaceable to
sitting around a Shabbat table. And I think here
you have that kind of environment where there
is a community here too that I recognize and
I know that I went to school with for the past
four years. So again, it's a similar situation
where it's that sense of community that's unique
that I built here in my time in university. But
yeah. Only positive things to say about FIU in
that regard. Great. One of the things that's
been a challenge, I think, after October 7th
is things about the challenge of anti -Semitism
more generally. What has been your experience
either in Porto or here in Miami with anti -Semitism?
I think a lot of people attribute a lot of the
world's problems to Jews. I think that there's
an... antisemitism is very different from other
forms of racism and the other forms of racism
tend to paint people as inferior or being worse
in some way and frequently people will say why
is this particular comment antisemitic? Why is
this antisemitic? You're saying Jews have a very
high IQ and Jews, you know, they control all
the banks or they do all the... And it's like,
why is that bad? It's like, well, it's proven
to be bad because the message that you're controlling
everything means you're also to blame for everything.
And that's frequently the kind of antisemitism
I've seen, right, from a lot of people. And that's
not unique to the U .S. or to Portugal. It's
just a historical thing, right? That's an ancient
form of antisemitism. And I've seen it. You know,
in all forms, I see people that are on the far
right that are, you know, neo -Nazis that believe,
you know, a lot of these things about Jews. But
the newest form is I see it on the far left as
well, right? A lot of people that may, you know,
at some point have good intentions with, you
know, the advocacy for Palestinian rights, you
know, etc. But then they convert that into a
hatred against Jewish people, right? Or against
Israelis too, right? If you look at any sort
of discrimination policy or hate policy or racism
policy, it says, race, ethnicity, religion, nationality.
These are all issues. And you see all of it increasing.
In the US, I think Jews are the highest victim
of hate crimes, statistically. But it's kind
of presented, I think, almost on the new left
form of antisemitism. Well, all Jews are white.
They're no different from white Anglo -Saxons.
So there isn't really a problem. They kind of
try to define it out of existence, almost. And
so, you know... That's the way I've seen it politically
is in these various forms. And you just see it
ramping up. Now, in my personal experience, I've
really only had experiences talking to people
that are, you know, extreme. Thankfully, they've
never attacked me or done things to me physically.
But I've had conversations with crazy people
that, you know, say all these things. And to,
you know, harassment to an extent with, you know,
we had a Shabbat event. And, you know, we had
some people come speak that were former IDF soldiers.
and the protest was unbelievable right they organized
the whole thing they you know surrounded surrounded
the room were like banging on the doors saying
everybody's like genocidal baby killer murderer
all these things right here at FIU yeah here
at FIU saying all these things you know um and
they tried to break in of course they were like
banging on the doors it was you know it was a
it literally changed the rules on protesting
in the Graham Center because of the degree of
aggression of this protest And of course, we
had to, you know, we recorded some of these clips
went viral, right? It was people following kids
to their cars, right? It was a kid who was eight
years old. His mother was followed and people
did Nazi salutes. And it's all on camera. I mean,
it went viral. But, you know, I think there's
been an effort to try and curb that. And I think
even a lot of the students that may have participated
in that later probably saw, you know. Looking
back, okay, what was I doing there? At least
I hope. But yeah, I mean, that's the kind of
thing that happens with the scale of brainwashing
when it comes to how people think about minorities.
It's not just Jews, but this is just my experience
with it, right? One of the other things that's
been a big thing, I think, after October 7th
is the U .S. relationship with Israel. Talk to
us a little bit about your understanding of Israel
and kind of your relationship with it. Well,
I think Israel, obviously, it has a importance
for a lot of Jews in that Jews were persecuted
everywhere for thousands of years. And when it
comes to Europe, when it comes to the Middle
East, when it comes to really anywhere. There
hasn't really been a place that's been a consistent
home for the Jews, right? In the sense of a lot
of people, they feel Jews kind of should have
a sense of self -determination. They have a unique
culture. They have a unique, you know, connection
to each other and to, you know, Jerusalem, you
know, praying the direction of Jerusalem. You
know, there's a whole culture around that. Now,
I'm not super religious. I don't live in Israel.
I'm not Israeli. So obviously I can't speak to
what that's like or to the degree. But of course,
Israel is important to me in the sense that,
you know, I don't know what happens. I don't
know what the solution is. Right. I don't know.
You know, I think everybody should be able to
live there equally. But the fact is the Jews
have a right to live there. Right. Jews should
have some degree of self -determination. And
whether that's important in your religion or
that's important for your own safety or that's
important for your identity, whatever way that's
defined, I think that there is an importance
to that. Right. When it comes to the political
side and to the conflict side. I have no idea
how that ends. I have no idea what a two -state
solution would look like. I have no idea. But
the fact is, obviously, the Jewish self -determination
is important. And of course, a lot of people
try to separate elements of that from Judaism.
The fact that there is... praying the direction
of jerusalem there's you know infinite talk about
you know kingdom of israel or the location zion
or all these all these things right these things
are talked about a lot in in the torah um and
of course there i saw there was uh there was
There's attempts to try and remove that or to
try and separate it a little bit. There's groups
that people always point to like NATO -Dekarta,
which is a very extreme anti -Zionist group.
And by the way, not all anti -Zionist Jews think
like NATO -Dekarta. A lot of them just don't
think it's time or they have different ways of
rationalizing. But NATO -Dekarta, they side with
Iran. They side with a lot of radical regimes.
There are 3 ,000 people. This is a very small
percentage of Jews, right? But they're presented
as if this is a large population, right? They
go to a lot of protests. They're very vocal.
So it's like, okay, well, these are the good
Jews, right? I only agree with the good Jews,
not the bad Jews. They're like the 90 % that
are Zionists. Those are the bad Jews. And there's
this kind of like dichotomy that's drawn, which
is like, okay, well, if you mean Zionist as in
like radical wants to kill people, then okay,
then that's bad, you know, but that's not what
it means, right? So people can try to redefine
things to try and, you know. uh incriminate a
group of people uh and that doesn't mean that
there aren't radical people there's horrible
radical people right like i don't like netanyahu
i don't like a lot of a lot of people that are
on you know to the far right of me uh but that
doesn't mean that you can just label everybody
that's you know that believes in there being
a state of israel at all which is what zionism
means as being somehow malicious right but that
is kind of the direction i think it's it's going
which is very disturbing yeah um but yeah i guess
that's my that's that's what i can say right
no that's great um what is something that drew
you to intrepid dialogue and what is something
that's important how do you see other religious
traditions well i always had an interest from
the time i was little i mean like i said i grew
up in a catholic country so frequently i would
see a lot of the things that my friends and their
families would do you know sometimes on sunday
i would go with them to church and i'd see the
whole and it was fascinating right seeing all
these all these angles to tradition and to how
people live their lives, right, to humanity.
It's beautiful. Now, when I came to the U .S.,
I saw even more of that, right? You have Protestants
and Catholics and Orthodox, all these different
types. And then you have, you know, various kinds
of Muslims and you have various kinds of, you
know, Jews, different levels of practice. And
you have such diversity here religiously, right,
that... it increased my interest, right? Initially,
funnily enough, I did chemistry, believe it or
not. I mean, who would have thought, you know,
science, right? Raw science, the central science.
But eventually I pivoted toward political science
as I became more interested in that field. And
one of the things I did was for a certificate
in the Middle East, I actually traveled to the
region, right? To Israel, Palestinian territories,
Jordan, and to get the certificate. And the group
that I went with was the Christian Ecumenical
Foundation, a Christian group. But it was with
the Muslim Study Center, the Jaffer Center for
Muslim World Studies. And I went with another
Jewish friend. Most of the group, of course,
wasn't, but one other Jewish friend. So it was
quite interesting going with a Christian group
led by Muslims as... a jew with another jew it's
just a you know that experience in and of itself
was uh kind of blending these cultures right
we got to see churches synagogues mosques we
got to see every angle right uh stay two weeks
in ramallah and have that experience um and i
think that that was extremely valuable and that
increased my interest even more right and trying
to understand these cultures trying to see where
our points in common are uh and then when october
7th happened it feels like so much work that
people have been doing to try and bring people
together was just undone like that right immediately
you have a cold war immediately between people
that were friends a day ago right um i had i
know people that went to a protest on october
8th saying victory palestine right as footage
was still coming out of people getting you know
slaughtered so obviously that was that's a difficult
thing to get over i've tried to resolve that
that's that that gap but of course that's very
difficult right um but yeah i think uh that mending
that that wound is i think something that everybody
should be trying to do right uh that every jew
and every muslim or to whoever at least has the
resources and the knowledge and the contacts
i guess to be able to mend that gap they should
i think we have a responsibility to do that and
you know i i don't think anybody should wait
for somebody else to do it for them right this
is you know We are in this, especially as Jews,
I mean, Muslims, of course, but Jews, we are
only 15 million people. I mean, there aren't
many Jews. I mean, there's 2 billion Muslims.
I don't think every Muslim knows a Jewish person.
But at least with Jews, we have a duty to kind
of try and be ambassadors. And I feel like not
enough people have tried to do that. Or, I mean,
people do, but it's quite small. And obviously,
I can't speak to, you know, to... to muslim ambassadors
right but of course you know there has to be
an effort too i think everybody needs to try
and come together and i think that's where interfaith
comes in is our religions are more similar than
they are different absolutely so i think that
there is a lot of room that you know to come
together and see okay well maybe our issues are
a little bit silly you know right uh yeah yeah
absolutely i mean i think that's the thing ultimately
um one of the things that i hope that we're getting
out of the connections are just kind of like
the lived realities of how similar our religious
traditions are, and then also navigating our,
you know, kind of spiritual paths in the United
States. And there's a lot of overlap and a lot
of similarity. And I think that ultimately, you
know, these beliefs of, I mean, one of the things
I really enjoy about the Quran and the Talmud
as well, is this, there's this, that if you've
saved one life, you've saved all of humanity.
And if you killed one person, you killed all
of humanity. I think it's very powerful when
you really think about it. And just part of what
we're trying to do, I think, with our work is
to try to see the full humanity in the other
and being able to really deeply listen and to
embrace the other. And I think ultimately, nobody
wants... you know, to hate and to destroy the
other. I think even in the Palestinian -Israeli
sort of situation, you know, there are some extremists
on both sides. And I think those voices, unfortunately,
have taken sort of center stage and they're kind
of leading. the action. Whereas I think the vast
majority of people are, you know, want to live
their lives peacefully and they want to have,
you know, economic prosperity and they want to
be able to provide for their families and sort
of live in peace. And so how do we, in a way,
kind of embolden, you know, the majority who
have that perspective, you know? So it's very,
it's a very... That's the goal? Yeah, it's a
goal. Yeah, it's a very important... distinction
well uh thank you so much for coming in i really
appreciate you taking the time to talk to me
thank you for being part of part of our it's
an honor to be part of it yeah thank you so much