WEBVTT 00:00:00.270 --> 00:00:03.790 Hi, welcome to another episode for our course 00:00:03.790 --> 00:00:06.750 here at Florida International University. I'm 00:00:06.750 --> 00:00:09.669 here with Philip Louisa, who is a graduate student 00:00:09.669 --> 00:00:12.669 in politics, international relations, as well 00:00:12.669 --> 00:00:17.010 as religious studies. And he's one of our most 00:00:17.010 --> 00:00:19.149 talented students. We're really honored to have 00:00:19.149 --> 00:00:22.210 him and to talk a little bit about his. academic 00:00:22.210 --> 00:00:24.670 background, his interest in interfaith work, 00:00:24.949 --> 00:00:29.050 and some of his research so that you guys know 00:00:29.050 --> 00:00:32.329 kind of the excellent caliber of students and 00:00:32.329 --> 00:00:34.409 research that's happening here at the university 00:00:34.409 --> 00:00:38.210 in interfaith dialogue and interfaith relations. 00:00:38.549 --> 00:00:40.609 So with that, I'll turn it over to Philip. Okay. 00:00:40.829 --> 00:00:42.789 Thank you, Professor, for having me. Your words 00:00:42.789 --> 00:00:46.009 are too kind. Again, yes, my name is Philip Louisa. 00:00:46.700 --> 00:00:51.060 I am in the Religious Studies program on the 00:00:51.060 --> 00:00:53.259 Master's side with a combined International Relations 00:00:53.259 --> 00:00:58.179 PhD. As Professor mentioned, I'm here for the 00:00:58.179 --> 00:01:00.200 long haul and my interest in interfaith is what 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.820 has kind of brought us together. Also, our path 00:01:03.820 --> 00:01:06.239 kind of in terms of our backgrounds are rather 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:11.849 similar. I'm Tanzanian by birth. I came to the 00:01:11.849 --> 00:01:13.930 United States when I was seven years old, but 00:01:13.930 --> 00:01:16.849 I spent the early childhood time of my life, 00:01:16.849 --> 00:01:20.750 about four to five years, between Tanzania and 00:01:20.750 --> 00:01:23.629 the United Kingdom in Wales, where my dad was 00:01:23.629 --> 00:01:27.530 pursuing a PhD at the University of Bangor. um 00:01:27.530 --> 00:01:32.629 so during that time i grew in terms of my interests 00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:35.370 in terms of the international stage being that 00:01:35.370 --> 00:01:38.129 i kind of my earliest memory is being on a plane 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:41.829 uh being actually in the in an airport in egypt 00:01:41.829 --> 00:01:43.189 i've got which one but that's kind of like my 00:01:43.189 --> 00:01:46.480 earliest memory and also just walking around, 00:01:46.739 --> 00:01:49.760 toddling around the University of Dar es Salaam 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:53.019 and as well as in Wales. So international relations 00:01:53.019 --> 00:01:55.340 has always been a key interest of mine as well 00:01:55.340 --> 00:01:57.939 as religious studies, interfaith especially. 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:03.299 My dad kind of I got I was babysat by most of 00:02:03.299 --> 00:02:05.519 my dad's students. That's what I think. That's 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:07.719 how my dad kind of paid, you know, got his payment. 00:02:08.300 --> 00:02:10.919 So from an early age, my first babysitters are 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:15.159 from Sri Lanka. So I remember having an early 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:20.520 being brought into like Buddhist, you know. thoughts, 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:23.719 Buddhist ideas. I was introduced to actually 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:26.419 Buddhist monks at like around like the age of 00:02:26.419 --> 00:02:28.659 like eight, even though at the time I was growing 00:02:28.659 --> 00:02:32.000 up as Catholic. So this was being interfaith 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:35.460 has always been a comfortable sphere that I've 00:02:35.460 --> 00:02:39.419 sat in. And so taking that, I think it's just 00:02:39.419 --> 00:02:41.379 this has been kind of almost like a homecoming 00:02:41.379 --> 00:02:45.759 to now to actually be able to study it and to 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:49.139 actually make it a part of my career, where specifically 00:02:49.139 --> 00:02:54.180 it applies in my own research. Working with Professor 00:02:54.180 --> 00:02:57.360 Akhtar, we have been exploring youth agency in 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:01.599 terms of conflict and as it pertains to various 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:06.189 challenging areas. Specifically, we're looking 00:03:06.189 --> 00:03:08.870 at Nigeria, the Nigerian youth, and then the 00:03:08.870 --> 00:03:11.090 northern -southern divide when it comes to the 00:03:11.090 --> 00:03:14.210 Islamic -Christian conflict. But then the multiple 00:03:14.210 --> 00:03:17.030 layers as it relates to ethnicity and how that 00:03:17.030 --> 00:03:21.490 kind of lends some complexity to what usually 00:03:21.490 --> 00:03:24.830 is looked at as a purely Christian -Muslim conflict. 00:03:25.310 --> 00:03:28.129 As well as my interest goes into South Asia as 00:03:28.129 --> 00:03:35.360 well, specifically India. the challenges of the 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:39.219 smaller minority Christian population as they 00:03:39.219 --> 00:03:42.439 continue to integrate themselves or to grow within 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:46.139 the subcontinent. That's amazing. I mean, I think 00:03:46.139 --> 00:03:49.979 so. It's very interesting that like your exposure 00:03:49.979 --> 00:03:52.439 early on in life allowed you to be able to kind 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:56.599 of see multiple perspectives in terms of international 00:03:56.599 --> 00:03:59.099 relations and expose you to different cultures 00:03:59.099 --> 00:04:03.930 and religions. I think, talk to us a little bit 00:04:03.930 --> 00:04:06.689 about your own spirituality. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 00:04:06.789 --> 00:04:10.430 Okay. And your background there. Yes. So, yes, 00:04:10.469 --> 00:04:13.590 I grew up Catholic, you know, very deep. And 00:04:13.590 --> 00:04:17.509 many Tanzanians have a deep Catholic faith. I 00:04:17.509 --> 00:04:19.750 think we're split around the middle, Christian 00:04:19.750 --> 00:04:23.949 and Catholic, about 50, 50, 50 percent. And then 00:04:23.949 --> 00:04:27.350 there's a small Protestant, a growing Protestant 00:04:27.350 --> 00:04:32.089 population as well. So from an early age, I always 00:04:32.089 --> 00:04:34.529 was going to church. My grandfather was a missionary 00:04:34.529 --> 00:04:39.129 and kind of passed that on to me. as well. And 00:04:39.129 --> 00:04:41.250 I really just kind of had a deep interest in 00:04:41.250 --> 00:04:45.029 the Catholicism. I was, well, a lot of kids were 00:04:45.029 --> 00:04:46.649 kind of running away from church. I was just 00:04:46.649 --> 00:04:52.470 fascinated with a lot of the stories that I would 00:04:52.470 --> 00:04:57.709 hear in the biblical context. And also, even 00:04:57.709 --> 00:05:00.750 though my dad has a very deeply scientific worldview, 00:05:01.129 --> 00:05:06.269 but he helped me understand how to look at religion 00:05:06.269 --> 00:05:09.850 from a critical lens. So we would have conversations 00:05:09.850 --> 00:05:11.810 like, oh, did the world, was the world really 00:05:11.810 --> 00:05:13.709 created in seven days? I remember from an early 00:05:13.709 --> 00:05:15.769 age, my dad would tell me, well, you know, seven 00:05:15.769 --> 00:05:18.290 days to God may be different than seven days 00:05:18.290 --> 00:05:20.949 to us. So maybe that's the way we should look 00:05:20.949 --> 00:05:23.910 at it. And so I've always been comfortable in 00:05:23.910 --> 00:05:26.810 the world of science and religion being sitting 00:05:26.810 --> 00:05:29.009 very comfortably together because my father is 00:05:29.009 --> 00:05:30.629 very religious. And at the same time, he's very 00:05:30.629 --> 00:05:33.670 deeply scientific. So it's always come as a. 00:05:33.769 --> 00:05:38.269 as a strange uh idea that science or religion 00:05:38.269 --> 00:05:41.449 can't sit side by side because that's just kind 00:05:41.449 --> 00:05:46.730 of how i i was raised um so in my as i as i continue 00:05:46.730 --> 00:05:49.490 to grow i kind of Pulled away from my Catholic 00:05:49.490 --> 00:05:52.269 faith when I got a little bit older and I went 00:05:52.269 --> 00:05:57.209 to college. Many, many of us do. I mean, I would 00:05:57.209 --> 00:06:00.269 go to church still during like Holy Days, like 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:03.790 Easter and Christmas. But I started kind of starting 00:06:03.790 --> 00:06:07.509 to explore my own, you know, perspectives and 00:06:07.509 --> 00:06:09.350 kind of wanting to be more like everybody else 00:06:09.350 --> 00:06:13.649 around me. But I always found deep comfort within 00:06:13.649 --> 00:06:19.170 the church. Then later on, as I grew into post 00:06:19.170 --> 00:06:23.579 -college, I started... really, really truly start 00:06:23.579 --> 00:06:27.040 to kind of leave my Catholic faith. And I would 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:29.680 say I was almost like I was a Catholic agnostic 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:33.079 where I did things more ritualistically, but 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:36.199 it really didn't mean much to me outside of that. 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:40.240 And then as I ended up, I ended up moving to 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:44.740 Florida, at which point I was engaged to. an 00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:46.680 individual who would become the mother of my 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:49.480 child. And during that formative time, I kind 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:51.860 of started to have some spiritual angst and difficulties 00:06:51.860 --> 00:06:55.540 and challenges, a walk in terms of which I dealt 00:06:55.540 --> 00:06:59.279 with various issues in terms of understanding 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:03.480 who I was. And through that period, I ended up... 00:07:03.980 --> 00:07:06.899 Really looking deeper into this idea of spirituality 00:07:06.899 --> 00:07:11.519 and asking myself and wanting something deeper. 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:14.540 And in that sense is when I started walking toward 00:07:14.540 --> 00:07:18.620 where I am now, which is Protestant. I left the 00:07:18.620 --> 00:07:21.379 Catholic faith and became a Protestant Christian. 00:07:22.490 --> 00:07:25.410 And in that perspective, I wanted a deeper and 00:07:25.410 --> 00:07:28.889 richer experience. And, you know, I became, you 00:07:28.889 --> 00:07:30.990 know, I made Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. 00:07:31.930 --> 00:07:35.449 And that started to shape my worldview even more. 00:07:37.509 --> 00:07:40.449 It pushed me further into discovering more of 00:07:40.449 --> 00:07:43.410 who I was. So for me, religion has allowed me 00:07:43.410 --> 00:07:45.889 to have a better understanding of who I am as 00:07:45.889 --> 00:07:48.490 an individual outside of what the world has kind 00:07:48.490 --> 00:07:51.569 of told me I should be. It has given me an authenticity 00:07:51.569 --> 00:07:54.670 and a perspective that I don't think I could 00:07:54.670 --> 00:07:57.970 have had without my faith. Okay, very interesting. 00:08:00.589 --> 00:08:03.910 I know you're doing a little bit of work with... 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.959 Christians in India. So talk to us a little bit. 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:09.819 What is the situation of Christians in India? 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:15.660 Okay. Yes. So... During my journey, I had the 00:08:15.660 --> 00:08:19.519 opportunity at a church here in South Florida, 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:22.319 Church by the Glades, where I met up with a pastor 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:26.279 named Pastor Shibu Josephs, originally from Kelara. 00:08:26.939 --> 00:08:29.980 And we started to speak because at that time 00:08:29.980 --> 00:08:33.039 I was starting to get more involved in wanting 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.120 to understand Christian persecution in specifically 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:40.840 South Asia and as well as Somalia. And while 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:43.159 I was speaking to him, I did. realized that he 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:45.740 was in an area where there was a lot of Christian 00:08:45.740 --> 00:08:47.779 persecution, which is, and Professor, I'm going 00:08:47.779 --> 00:08:53.500 to say it wrong, in northern India. And so we 00:08:53.500 --> 00:08:55.399 started to speak and he started telling me about 00:08:55.399 --> 00:08:59.059 the fact that he's been working to build a community 00:08:59.059 --> 00:09:02.940 of believers with Christian believers in northern 00:09:02.940 --> 00:09:06.159 India in that specific part of the world, which 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:10.549 is Right now rift with a lot of religious tensions 00:09:10.549 --> 00:09:15.600 as kind of a background, there is an anti -conversion 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:19.139 law that has been on the books in India for the 00:09:19.139 --> 00:09:22.039 last couple of years, and that has made it a 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:23.759 little bit more difficult for the evangelical 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:26.500 side of the Christian faith to kind of continue 00:09:26.500 --> 00:09:30.240 the practice of what many people see as proselytization. 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:34.299 And this has led a level of suspicion in terms 00:09:34.299 --> 00:09:37.879 of many of the local communities, specifically 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:42.810 outside of the periphery of the main largely 00:09:42.810 --> 00:09:45.929 Hindu population in the southern parts of India. 00:09:46.450 --> 00:09:49.789 And so he kind of walked me through the history 00:09:49.789 --> 00:09:53.649 of the challenges of Christianity's growth in 00:09:53.649 --> 00:09:56.330 India, even though Christianity has been in India 00:09:56.330 --> 00:10:01.470 since its infancy, since Thomas came to India. 00:10:01.870 --> 00:10:05.330 So India is very well acquainted with Christianity, 00:10:05.549 --> 00:10:07.950 but it has struggled in terms of its growth. 00:10:08.070 --> 00:10:10.549 I think at the current term, it's like somebody 00:10:10.549 --> 00:10:13.370 will correct me too. 2 % in terms of population. 00:10:14.250 --> 00:10:18.230 And so I've gotten more, in spending time with 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:20.210 him, I've gotten a better understanding of asking 00:10:20.210 --> 00:10:23.909 why has Christianity had such a deep struggle 00:10:23.909 --> 00:10:27.029 of growing, and then the increased persecution. 00:10:27.370 --> 00:10:30.509 Historically, I think at the time of independence, 00:10:30.889 --> 00:10:35.190 there was an attempt to kind of maintain a very 00:10:35.190 --> 00:10:37.629 sumless piece of divide between the different 00:10:37.629 --> 00:10:40.049 religious groups. I think the challenges were 00:10:40.049 --> 00:10:44.490 more between Muslim and Hindu, but Christians 00:10:44.490 --> 00:10:47.309 fell in kind of the crevice of the in -between 00:10:47.309 --> 00:10:50.990 in terms of challenges. But there is a continuing 00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:53.990 growth of the Christian population within India. 00:10:54.090 --> 00:10:58.690 And with Pastor Shibu, I've had an opportunity 00:10:58.690 --> 00:11:02.899 to meet a lot of those people. And I know you're 00:11:02.899 --> 00:11:05.220 doing work on the situation in Nigeria. Yes. 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:07.460 So talk to us a little bit about the relationship 00:11:07.460 --> 00:11:11.639 between Christians and Muslims and kind of your 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:14.039 general perspective on the challenges of sort 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:15.679 of interfaith dialogue between Christians and 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:18.700 Muslims. Yeah. So this is a very sensitive particular 00:11:18.700 --> 00:11:24.250 topic. My interest in India also kind of shed 00:11:24.250 --> 00:11:26.750 light in the fact that there's other areas where 00:11:26.750 --> 00:11:30.330 there is this complexity when it comes to the 00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:32.769 relationships between the multiple faiths. So 00:11:32.769 --> 00:11:39.220 Nigeria is split along. various ethnic groups, 00:11:39.340 --> 00:11:43.240 but also as well as an underlying factor as well 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.519 as a religious split with a largely northern 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:51.059 Muslim population and then the south made up 00:11:51.059 --> 00:11:54.940 of the majority's Christian population, a mixture 00:11:54.940 --> 00:11:59.549 of Catholicism and Protestant Christianity. The 00:11:59.549 --> 00:12:02.129 difficulties that have been occurring for the 00:12:02.129 --> 00:12:05.649 last couple, actually since the infancy of independence, 00:12:06.090 --> 00:12:11.230 but more in the last 20 to 30 years has been 00:12:11.230 --> 00:12:17.529 the advent of a form of, I'm not going to correctly 00:12:17.529 --> 00:12:22.620 express my fundamentalist, but more I would say 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:25.120 like they have been a Boko Haram and other kind 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:28.940 of splinter groups that have taken a perspective 00:12:28.940 --> 00:12:33.059 of Islam that is kind of extremist. Thank you, 00:12:33.059 --> 00:12:36.899 Professor. And in that sense, this group of people 00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:40.820 which have kind of taken advantage or exploited 00:12:40.820 --> 00:12:44.840 the challenging socioeconomic issues that are 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:49.240 going on in northern Nigeria have used this as 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:53.580 an opportunity to kind of co -opt and really 00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:57.340 kind of recruit a lot of young people into their 00:12:57.340 --> 00:13:01.740 groups and use this as a way to attack various 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:04.320 groups both christians and muslims i want to 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:06.059 make that very clear it's been both christians 00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:08.299 and muslims that have been under attack various 00:13:08.299 --> 00:13:11.620 communities i know in the last like i think three 00:13:11.620 --> 00:13:15.460 years have been fulani uh herdsmen who have gone 00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:17.679 and encroached down into the southern part so 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:20.740 i think southeast part of nigeria and attacked 00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:23.679 a lot of christian groups so there has been in 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.200 the last couple of weeks specifically a highlighting 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.000 of the persecution of christians that has been 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.919 happening um and i i think the number has been 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.559 put up with like a hundred thousand uh in terms 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:39.809 of deaths that have uh people that killed Again, 00:13:40.029 --> 00:13:42.769 I always want to emphasize that, yes, there is 00:13:42.769 --> 00:13:46.110 a persecution of Christians. But as Professor 00:13:46.110 --> 00:13:47.730 Akhtar and I have been going in terms of our 00:13:47.730 --> 00:13:53.690 talks, there is a layer of ethnic division that 00:13:53.690 --> 00:13:56.210 kind of underlies that. So it's not clearly just 00:13:56.210 --> 00:14:01.580 a pure Christian Muslim attack. religion is used 00:14:01.580 --> 00:14:08.019 as a tool, as an excuse to act upon egregious 00:14:08.019 --> 00:14:10.360 differences and divisions that have been there 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:13.000 for a while. And political, economic, social 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.840 grievances and historical sort of challenges 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.240 between these communities. So it goes back to 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:22.200 the colonial period and even before then as well. 00:14:24.289 --> 00:14:28.330 It's a big challenge. What about living here 00:14:28.330 --> 00:14:31.029 in Miami? How has your experience been in terms 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:32.870 of engaging people of different faiths? Yeah. 00:14:34.230 --> 00:14:39.669 So Miami is interesting. In the internal Christian 00:14:39.669 --> 00:14:44.889 discourse, from the evangelical circles that 00:14:44.889 --> 00:14:51.450 I am in, Miami is looked as, there's a lot of 00:14:51.450 --> 00:14:55.820 churches in Miami. um there is a large christian 00:14:55.820 --> 00:15:00.820 uh people who call themselves christians um what 00:15:00.820 --> 00:15:03.700 we do see it as is a rather under churched area 00:15:03.700 --> 00:15:07.259 which meaning the particular people do call label 00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:09.480 themselves christians but they a large percentage 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.580 don't actually go to church um so and this is 00:15:13.580 --> 00:15:18.269 a a a difficult or a reality, as I'll put it 00:15:18.269 --> 00:15:21.490 out there, in a lot of the United States. And 00:15:21.490 --> 00:15:25.090 so it's a microcosm of that within the Miami 00:15:25.090 --> 00:15:29.370 area. The other interesting aspect of it is the 00:15:29.370 --> 00:15:35.149 fact that there's a growing desire to touch or 00:15:35.149 --> 00:15:37.409 to reach out in terms of connecting with indigenous 00:15:37.409 --> 00:15:43.279 or different religions that are outside of the 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:45.659 historical context of which the Abrahamic religions, 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:50.440 especially within the Afro -Caribbean diaspora 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:52.639 as well. And so that's something that's been 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:54.340 a growing, especially amongst the young people, 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.919 there's been various religions that are kind 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:00.500 of outside of the usual context, which is also... 00:16:01.700 --> 00:16:04.779 influenced a lot of the Catholic and Christian 00:16:04.779 --> 00:16:08.259 perspectives as well. So that has lent itself 00:16:08.259 --> 00:16:11.059 to a very different kind of viewpoint than what 00:16:11.059 --> 00:16:13.419 I kind of was seeing in New York. Now in New 00:16:13.419 --> 00:16:16.179 York, it was very, very different, which was 00:16:16.179 --> 00:16:23.590 a greater kind of divide in terms of the non 00:16:23.590 --> 00:16:26.470 -religious and the people who were calling themselves 00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:28.190 a Catholic Christian, we'll just label in this 00:16:28.190 --> 00:16:32.309 context as Christian. Florida, South Florida 00:16:32.309 --> 00:16:35.210 specifically, I think has more people who are 00:16:35.210 --> 00:16:37.629 more comfortable with calling themselves Christians 00:16:37.629 --> 00:16:41.509 than I saw in New York. The opportunities that 00:16:41.509 --> 00:16:45.200 I've seen here are the fact that Because there's 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.620 a greater comfort in having that dialogue outside 00:16:48.620 --> 00:16:52.460 of more, I would say, academia, there's an opportunity 00:16:52.460 --> 00:16:56.980 to kind of reshape the perspectives of what people 00:16:56.980 --> 00:17:00.779 see as traditional Christianity, as more of a 00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:05.480 kind of encroachment into your life without any 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:09.700 kind of real... you know, positive product. And 00:17:09.700 --> 00:17:11.440 so that's a lot of the work that I've been doing, 00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:14.799 working, you know, with many leadership, people 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:18.640 in leadership, working with, I work in prison 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.559 ministry. I work actively in other social areas, 00:17:22.579 --> 00:17:25.740 just to kind of change the perspective that there's 00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:27.799 this idea that Christianity lends nothing to 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:31.480 itself besides trying to damn you to, you know, 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.640 some kind of hell. But this, I think when we, 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:36.599 you know, one thing Professor and I have in common. 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.380 When we study scripture, whether it's the Quran 00:17:39.380 --> 00:17:41.559 or whether it's the Bible, we see a very different 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:43.680 perspective than what we see on the outside world. 00:17:43.819 --> 00:17:45.619 And that's kind of what I'm trying to lend to 00:17:45.619 --> 00:17:48.000 as well as in the interfaith community. Absolutely. 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.019 That's wonderful. And to students here at the 00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:53.599 university or anywhere else that are interested 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.059 in learning about other religious traditions, 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:01.279 what would be your advice to them? I would say... 00:18:01.660 --> 00:18:06.220 One, be very open -minded. Explore for yourself. 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.619 And I would say start with the scriptures, whichever 00:18:11.619 --> 00:18:15.380 religion that you're interested in. There's a 00:18:15.380 --> 00:18:17.460 lot of people, I would call them talking heads. 00:18:17.539 --> 00:18:19.640 Many of us go to a YouTube page or we go to a 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:23.380 podcast. But I always say the best place to start 00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:25.759 with it is in the particular books. The books 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:30.680 themselves speak very clearly. With those of 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:32.619 us on the evangelical side, we believe that the 00:18:32.619 --> 00:18:35.799 Bible is ordained by the word of God. So it in 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:38.200 itself speaks to you and the truth is through 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:42.160 that word. And I think in the same very essence 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:46.079 in terms of Islam, when you read those particular 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:50.400 books, they carry a rich history and they carry 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:54.819 a rich narrative that's able to engage with the 00:18:54.819 --> 00:18:57.180 individual. And if you're open to it, the second 00:18:57.180 --> 00:19:01.140 part of that is. I say reach out to your local 00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:06.019 pastor, priest, or imam and sit down and be open 00:19:06.019 --> 00:19:08.940 to asking questions. Again, trying to stray away 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:10.640 from the talking heads that are out there who 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:12.980 are trying to sway opinion, whether it's pro 00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:16.259 or con. But if you have that kind of open mindset, 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:19.960 open to sitting down with a religious leader, 00:19:20.259 --> 00:19:23.859 many of them are more than happy to engage with 00:19:23.859 --> 00:19:27.380 you and sit down. And even one thing I've learned 00:19:27.380 --> 00:19:29.170 from Professor Echter is that So there's many 00:19:29.170 --> 00:19:32.569 of us, I would say, practicing academics that 00:19:32.569 --> 00:19:35.589 are more than happy to sit down and talk about 00:19:35.589 --> 00:19:37.549 whichever particular faith that you're interested 00:19:37.549 --> 00:19:40.529 in without really trying to push you in any direction. 00:19:41.049 --> 00:19:43.650 We are open to the fact that we do practice our 00:19:43.650 --> 00:19:46.950 faith and we're very happy and loving of our 00:19:46.950 --> 00:19:50.529 faith. But our key goal, I think, is always to 00:19:50.529 --> 00:19:53.309 bring an enriching environment to our student 00:19:53.309 --> 00:19:57.750 population in terms of. being open and not just 00:19:57.750 --> 00:20:01.809 being pushed by the fact that there's a very 00:20:01.809 --> 00:20:03.970 negative narrative that's out there, much of 00:20:03.970 --> 00:20:06.930 it because of the Christian context, a nationalist 00:20:06.930 --> 00:20:09.690 idea that's been pushed out there, which I think 00:20:09.690 --> 00:20:12.710 differs very greatly than the perspective that 00:20:12.710 --> 00:20:15.490 you'll see in the scriptures. Well, thank you 00:20:15.490 --> 00:20:17.190 so much, Philip. I appreciate it. It's been a 00:20:17.190 --> 00:20:18.970 wonderful interview and I'm looking forward to 00:20:18.970 --> 00:20:20.849 working with you. Thank you, Professor. Thanks 00:20:20.849 --> 00:20:21.170 a lot.