WEBVTT 00:00:05.770 --> 00:00:09.369 Welcome to another episode of the Interfaiths 00:00:09.369 --> 00:00:14.089 programming here at FIU. We are very honored 00:00:14.089 --> 00:00:19.670 to have Joanne and Susan that are here from Temple 00:00:19.670 --> 00:00:25.530 Beth Am. They're very esteemed colleagues and 00:00:25.530 --> 00:00:29.089 they've been part of our Jewish Muslim small 00:00:29.089 --> 00:00:32.820 dialogue group and they are pillars in their 00:00:32.820 --> 00:00:35.859 own right of the Florida Jewish community and 00:00:35.859 --> 00:00:38.079 they have a strong interest in interfaith work. 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:41.119 So what we'll do is we'll explore a little bit 00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:43.579 about their background and talk about the work 00:00:43.579 --> 00:00:46.479 that they're doing both with the community and 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:51.119 their larger hopes and aspirations for the meaning 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:54.299 of this interfaith work in this very challenging 00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:56.200 time that we're living through right now. So 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:59.539 I'll start off with Joanne. Well, first of all, 00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:02.759 thank you for inviting us to participate in this. 00:01:05.260 --> 00:01:09.019 I'm currently the chair now of Unbiased, which 00:01:09.019 --> 00:01:11.739 is our anti -Semitism initiative at Temple Beth 00:01:11.739 --> 00:01:16.219 Am. Susan is on the board, the committee with 00:01:16.219 --> 00:01:20.040 the rest of us, and we've been working for the 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:25.969 last three years on this initiative. We'll tell 00:01:25.969 --> 00:01:27.709 you a little bit about my background, what brought 00:01:27.709 --> 00:01:31.129 me to this kind of work within our synagogue. 00:01:31.629 --> 00:01:37.750 I was born in Miami, raised in Miami, so it's 00:01:37.750 --> 00:01:40.590 unusual to be a native and still here. I left 00:01:40.590 --> 00:01:43.769 for a few years and came back, but I grew up 00:01:43.769 --> 00:01:46.569 in a Miami that's very different from the Miami 00:01:46.569 --> 00:01:50.650 of today. It was a small town. Everybody got 00:01:50.650 --> 00:01:57.260 along. Our neighborhood was multicultural, different 00:01:57.260 --> 00:02:01.640 religions. My elementary school and middle school 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:04.719 and high school, there were people of every faith, 00:02:04.900 --> 00:02:09.819 every ethnicity. There were immigrant students 00:02:09.819 --> 00:02:13.699 who started coming in the 60s. And I grew up 00:02:13.699 --> 00:02:20.500 feeling like, yes, I am a Jewish girl, but I'm 00:02:20.500 --> 00:02:23.099 also a human being. And that was sort of how 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:25.580 it was. We didn't feel different necessarily 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:29.699 except at Christmas time when our classrooms 00:02:29.699 --> 00:02:31.680 had a Christmas tree and we all had to bring 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:34.080 an ornament. My mom wasn't quite sure where you 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:36.639 buy an ornament. So we got one and brought it. 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:39.460 And I always wanted one in my house, but I always 00:02:39.460 --> 00:02:41.780 helped my friends down the street decorate their 00:02:41.780 --> 00:02:43.919 Christmas trees. They came to my house and lit 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:48.590 the menorah. It was fine. I went to school in 00:02:48.590 --> 00:02:51.270 high school. It was the first time that I was 00:02:51.270 --> 00:02:55.349 in integrated high school. The schools in Miami 00:02:55.349 --> 00:02:59.030 were forced integration, but in my area, it didn't 00:02:59.030 --> 00:03:00.949 have to be forced. It was natural. People lived 00:03:00.949 --> 00:03:03.569 there and lived and worked and studied together. 00:03:04.330 --> 00:03:08.590 So I grew up feeling like interfaith work, it's 00:03:08.590 --> 00:03:10.810 a word I didn't know what it really involved. 00:03:10.930 --> 00:03:13.430 We all got along. We didn't talk about it. As 00:03:13.430 --> 00:03:18.659 a matter of fact, reflecting... my three closest 00:03:18.659 --> 00:03:21.259 lifelong friends who are still among my very 00:03:21.259 --> 00:03:23.120 best friends that I met in elementary school 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:26.159 are not Jewish. And I didn't have close, close 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:28.680 friends who were Jewish until probably middle 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:31.259 school and high school when I got more involved 00:03:31.259 --> 00:03:35.240 in the greater Miami Jewish clubs and social 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:41.280 things. I wound up becoming... nursery school 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:43.979 teacher and then a high school art teacher here 00:03:43.979 --> 00:03:47.199 in Miami during the Marielle boat lift. So I 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:49.960 had students coming into Hialeah High School 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:53.879 every day, new students, and then I decided to 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:56.560 go to law school. And I went to the University 00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:59.599 of Miami and upon graduation I was offered a 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:02.120 teaching position. So then I was a professor 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.939 at the law school for 30 years. Again, working 00:04:05.939 --> 00:04:11.199 with all kinds of people. kept my faith very 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:15.060 close and personal. I didn't get involved in 00:04:15.060 --> 00:04:17.420 the Jewish community and in Jewish outreach. 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.439 Instead, I brought my Jewish faith and my Jewish 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:24.019 values outward and became very involved in boards 00:04:24.019 --> 00:04:27.160 in Miami and the Community Relations Board and 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:31.720 some other volunteer boards. And that work taught 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:34.300 me there was a lot I didn't know about different 00:04:34.300 --> 00:04:41.550 people in different areas. I got quite ill, and 00:04:41.550 --> 00:04:43.689 I had to stop working, and I had to stop doing 00:04:43.689 --> 00:04:47.209 everything. And it gave me a number of years 00:04:47.209 --> 00:04:50.889 to reflect on what did I really enjoy in my life, 00:04:50.910 --> 00:04:54.110 if I ever felt well enough. And it was community 00:04:54.110 --> 00:04:57.970 outreach and social justice work. And when Rabbi 00:04:57.970 --> 00:05:01.370 Barris came up with the idea for this anti -Semitism 00:05:01.370 --> 00:05:05.970 initiative, I said, that's it, I'm in. So that's 00:05:05.970 --> 00:05:08.949 how I got involved. That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, 00:05:08.970 --> 00:05:12.170 it's a wonderful. So do you feel that that has 00:05:12.170 --> 00:05:15.129 also helped you in terms of what helped change 00:05:15.129 --> 00:05:22.589 your private faith into something that you pursued 00:05:22.589 --> 00:05:34.170 a bit more? Hmm. Probably getting sick. I wasn't 00:05:34.170 --> 00:05:37.170 sure. In fact, I was pretty sure it was not going 00:05:37.170 --> 00:05:41.569 to be okay. And I was. And it was a miracle. 00:05:42.129 --> 00:05:47.089 And my rabbis were very comforting and very involved. 00:05:47.189 --> 00:05:50.649 And I learned, I'm going to quote something I 00:05:50.649 --> 00:05:52.649 heard the other night. One of our confirmands 00:05:52.649 --> 00:05:55.449 at Temple Beth Am had written something. And 00:05:55.449 --> 00:05:58.329 I'm going to take it for a moment, apply it. 00:05:59.490 --> 00:06:03.829 She said, being Jewish means being part of a 00:06:03.829 --> 00:06:09.310 strong, compassionate, kind, and caring community. 00:06:10.250 --> 00:06:14.149 And that was when I felt it. I felt it because 00:06:14.149 --> 00:06:17.970 people I didn't even know knew me reached out 00:06:17.970 --> 00:06:23.870 and were very comforting and I began to feel 00:06:23.870 --> 00:06:28.009 the personal faith along with the community faith. 00:06:28.410 --> 00:06:33.629 That's amazing. Wonderful. So, Susan? Well... 00:06:34.139 --> 00:06:36.879 I grew up for the first four years of my life 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.819 in upstate New York in a little town called Boston 00:06:39.819 --> 00:06:47.620 Spa. And I grew up Jewishly. There was apparently 00:06:47.620 --> 00:06:51.680 a large synagogue in Saratoga Springs right next 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:55.120 door. I was too young to really participate. 00:06:56.100 --> 00:07:03.000 My family then moved to Miami. after that. And 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:09.300 it was a very challenging time. My father needed 00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:13.259 to take his oral surgery boards again, and there 00:07:13.259 --> 00:07:19.920 were quotas. And in fact, I found out that we 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:23.459 had changed our name so that he would be more 00:07:23.459 --> 00:07:26.399 accepted in the community. And it came as a great 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:29.160 shock. It was very confusing to me. I thought, 00:07:29.180 --> 00:07:31.850 wait a minute. Am I adopted? Am I part of this 00:07:31.850 --> 00:07:35.990 family? How do I fit in? And I, unfortunately, 00:07:36.110 --> 00:07:38.970 I had looked into some papers and that's how 00:07:38.970 --> 00:07:42.029 I found it. What kids do when there are little 00:07:42.029 --> 00:07:44.769 straw baskets. And then I didn't know how to 00:07:44.769 --> 00:07:48.220 bring it up to my parents. I was kind of in a 00:07:48.220 --> 00:07:51.579 deep, dark space for a bit and finally brought 00:07:51.579 --> 00:07:55.100 it up. And they explained to me that when they 00:07:55.100 --> 00:07:59.180 moved to this very tiny town at the time in upstate 00:07:59.180 --> 00:08:01.879 New York, there were just four Jewish families. 00:08:02.300 --> 00:08:05.839 And then when we moved here, that was the name 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:08.259 that they chose a name. And that was, it was 00:08:08.259 --> 00:08:11.420 a family name. And so I then understood that. 00:08:13.949 --> 00:08:18.430 When I came to Miami in the late 50s, early 60s, 00:08:18.430 --> 00:08:22.350 there was a lot of racial tension and tension 00:08:22.350 --> 00:08:27.269 for any minority group, which I didn't really 00:08:27.269 --> 00:08:34.190 understand. And kind of just... went along with 00:08:34.190 --> 00:08:38.090 my life in a public school. And then eventually 00:08:38.090 --> 00:08:41.009 our schools went on strike and I had to go to 00:08:41.009 --> 00:08:43.690 a private school. And fortunately, my parents 00:08:43.690 --> 00:08:46.649 were able to send me. By then my father was settled 00:08:46.649 --> 00:08:50.330 in his new profession that he had started over. 00:08:50.389 --> 00:08:52.669 He had been a dentist and then went back to become 00:08:52.669 --> 00:08:56.450 an oral surgeon. And there was tremendous racial 00:08:56.450 --> 00:08:59.830 tension because he practiced in Hialeah. And 00:08:59.830 --> 00:09:04.580 people there, couldn't afford the healthcare 00:09:04.580 --> 00:09:08.080 they needed. And he would just take them as patients 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:10.960 and they would return it in services. It was 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:14.080 kind of like a barter system that I grew up around. 00:09:14.500 --> 00:09:21.120 And that was my experience in high school. There 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:24.139 were private clubs and parties that I wasn't 00:09:24.139 --> 00:09:28.059 invited to because I was, I identified proudly 00:09:28.059 --> 00:09:34.779 as a Jewish woman. And went through college and 00:09:34.779 --> 00:09:38.360 graduate school away from Miami. Got graduate 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:42.000 degrees in counseling education and then in social 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:45.799 work. And really worked in a social action area, 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:49.799 working with mostly in a medical setting, but 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:54.399 with minorities, for which I was the minority. 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:02.039 And that was all fine. Prior to that, I married 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:05.559 someone who was not Jewish, which really was 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:12.679 uncomfortable for my mother. My father passed 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:16.940 away when I was 17. He caught hepatitis from 00:10:16.940 --> 00:10:19.720 a patient. Didn't know he had it. They didn't 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:23.299 glove in those days. And he didn't know he had 00:10:23.299 --> 00:10:25.980 it or thought he had something else like the 00:10:25.980 --> 00:10:35.710 flu. I met my husband in college and we got married 00:10:35.710 --> 00:10:38.090 a week after college. Actually, yesterday was 00:10:38.090 --> 00:10:41.909 our 50th anniversary, our 50th wedding anniversary. 00:10:42.409 --> 00:10:46.629 Who did that then? I mean, and I think my mother 00:10:46.629 --> 00:10:50.029 was just happy to get rid of me. And my husband's 00:10:50.029 --> 00:10:55.470 family were Episcopalian and our rabbi here. 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:58.279 My husband thought he would convert, and then 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:01.700 at the 11th hour, chose not to. He just didn't 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:05.820 feel that that was where he wanted to be. And 00:11:05.820 --> 00:11:10.320 a very prominent rabbi in Miami said, you know 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:15.169 what, I'm going to... put my bets with these 00:11:15.169 --> 00:11:19.009 two and that they're going to, you know, raise 00:11:19.009 --> 00:11:23.789 a Jewish family. And we did. And at 50, he chose 00:11:23.789 --> 00:11:28.090 Judaism, which came as a complete surprise to 00:11:28.090 --> 00:11:32.230 the entire family. You know, my younger daughter 00:11:32.230 --> 00:11:34.529 at the time said, you know, put her hand on her 00:11:34.529 --> 00:11:36.470 hip and went to school and said, just because 00:11:36.470 --> 00:11:39.509 he chose Judaism doesn't mean that we have to 00:11:39.509 --> 00:11:44.529 give up the tree. It was all very interesting 00:11:44.529 --> 00:11:47.970 while we were at Temple Beth Am. And I slowly 00:11:47.970 --> 00:11:51.570 got involved with interfaith families, young 00:11:51.570 --> 00:11:56.029 couples, and with parents and grandparents whose 00:11:56.029 --> 00:11:59.990 children had interfaith marriages. And I got 00:11:59.990 --> 00:12:03.470 involved in, I actually went for training up 00:12:03.470 --> 00:12:07.370 into Cincinnati to Hebrew Union College and would 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:12.440 help run the... classes, introduction to Judaism, 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:15.559 and I would do the psychoeducational parts with 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:18.440 another colleague who had gone for training. 00:12:18.620 --> 00:12:21.139 And then we started working with parents and 00:12:21.139 --> 00:12:25.440 grandparents. And I was quite surprised when 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:28.879 my husband chose Judaism. I just thought, we're 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.879 an interfaith family. That was my identity. But 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:34.279 the truth is, is that from a very early age, 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:36.440 and I think I shared this with you, there was 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:39.539 a life book. called The World's Great Religions. 00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:43.700 And I was in love with this book, so much so 00:12:43.700 --> 00:12:46.200 that my parents had to find it because the library 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:50.340 copy was getting checked out too much. And that 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:53.139 really stimulated my interest in learning about 00:12:53.139 --> 00:12:56.919 people. And I saw it as layering when people 00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:59.779 either chose to stay in their religion and just 00:12:59.779 --> 00:13:04.840 learn more about another, or they chose Judaism, 00:13:05.259 --> 00:13:07.879 that they didn't have to give up who they were 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:10.059 and what they thought. It was an opportunity 00:13:10.059 --> 00:13:12.899 to grow and to layer. And that has basically 00:13:12.899 --> 00:13:20.009 been my motivation. for this kind of work. I'm 00:13:20.009 --> 00:13:23.809 very interested in learning about people. My 00:13:23.809 --> 00:13:26.909 background is in counseling, and I learned so 00:13:26.909 --> 00:13:31.029 much in having these relationships and listening. 00:13:31.490 --> 00:13:36.909 And that was the real motivator for me, and particularly 00:13:36.909 --> 00:13:41.889 in a world now that seems to thrive, unfortunately, 00:13:41.970 --> 00:13:47.440 on hate, and in particular, anti -Semitism. I 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.080 feel the need to contribute in whatever way I 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.779 can to learn more about others and have others 00:13:52.779 --> 00:13:58.360 learn more about me and about what I'm all about 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:01.519 and what I value. And my guess is, and what I 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:04.100 found out, it's not even a guess, is that we 00:14:04.100 --> 00:14:08.639 share so much in common. So let me go back to 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.740 Joanne. I think talking about this idea, this 00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:14.000 is a really important idea of antisemitism. That 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:17.730 is something that has become much more apparent, 00:14:17.970 --> 00:14:22.169 I think, in the last few years, this rise in 00:14:22.169 --> 00:14:24.690 anti -Semitism. I know that MBIAS is specifically 00:14:24.690 --> 00:14:26.990 focused on anti -Semitism. Can you talk to us 00:14:26.990 --> 00:14:31.769 a little bit about what you see in terms of that 00:14:31.769 --> 00:14:39.009 experience and what has that been like to see 00:14:39.009 --> 00:14:40.990 an increase in anti -Semitism and what do you 00:14:40.990 --> 00:14:49.470 think is driving it? What has it been like? It's 00:14:49.470 --> 00:14:52.889 been very heartbreaking, first of all, because 00:14:52.889 --> 00:14:59.490 there was a time when hatred and anti -anybody 00:14:59.490 --> 00:15:04.090 was under the radar, under the rug a bit. And 00:15:04.090 --> 00:15:11.389 in the last eight years, well, no, more, people 00:15:11.389 --> 00:15:15.580 have become comfortable expressing hatred. and 00:15:15.580 --> 00:15:18.919 that's led to more hatred and that has led to 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:25.100 violence. There's been a history of anti -Semitism 00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:28.580 for thousands and thousands of years and the 00:15:28.580 --> 00:15:33.279 Jews have typically been the ones that are identified 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.240 when somebody has to say it's because of the 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:38.720 other. That's why things are the way they are. 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:45.389 And so that's not new. What's new is... The feeling 00:15:45.389 --> 00:15:48.210 that it's okay to be like that. That it used 00:15:48.210 --> 00:15:51.330 to be embarrassing to share that you hated other 00:15:51.330 --> 00:15:53.889 people because of who they are or what they believed 00:15:53.889 --> 00:15:56.610 or what they look like. You kept it quiet. Now 00:15:56.610 --> 00:15:59.769 it's just out there and it's all over the social 00:15:59.769 --> 00:16:05.509 media and it's being fomented into action and 00:16:05.509 --> 00:16:12.789 violence. There used to be a theory that one... 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:15.220 teaches in law school and learns in law school 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:20.320 about free speech. You can have the freest of 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.820 speech in the whole wide world, but you cannot 00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:28.500 scream fire in a crowded movie theater because 00:16:28.500 --> 00:16:31.039 people will trample each other and that leads 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:37.460 to violence and that leads to action. So free 00:16:37.460 --> 00:16:41.460 speech is fine until it begins to hurt people. 00:16:42.590 --> 00:16:45.889 So the speech that we're hearing, the hate -filled 00:16:45.889 --> 00:16:53.429 speech and the anti -Jewish, anti -Israel, anti 00:16:53.429 --> 00:16:58.169 -Zionism, is not just a feeling. It's actually 00:16:58.169 --> 00:17:01.049 a call to people coming to action, and that's 00:17:01.049 --> 00:17:03.629 terrifying. People have been dying, yeah. People 00:17:03.629 --> 00:17:06.849 have been dying. Relationships have been hurt. 00:17:07.509 --> 00:17:10.710 People have begun to hate their neighbors and 00:17:10.710 --> 00:17:14.799 their friends. cohorts and political divisions 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:19.680 because of that and it's also islamophobia and 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:28.380 lgbtq plus hatred and bigotry and racism anytime 00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:32.519 somebody seems other yeah and i'm not going to 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:35.700 get into politics but i will say the leaders 00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:40.410 in the world and in the community have an obligation 00:17:40.410 --> 00:17:43.849 to tamp it down instead of fan the flames and 00:17:43.849 --> 00:17:47.450 I'm afraid that it's going to get worse before 00:17:47.450 --> 00:17:52.809 we figure out ways to make it better. So what 00:17:52.809 --> 00:17:57.210 is, I know you don't represent the entire Jewish 00:17:57.210 --> 00:17:59.670 community of Miami, but what is Temple Bet Sam's 00:17:59.670 --> 00:18:06.069 role in trying to to challenge sort of this hatred? 00:18:08.970 --> 00:18:13.630 We decided when Unbiased got started, this was 00:18:13.630 --> 00:18:20.210 before October 7th. Things changed a lot since 00:18:20.210 --> 00:18:22.809 then. So I'm going to go back to our initial 00:18:22.809 --> 00:18:26.109 charge. We came up with the name, and our marketing 00:18:26.109 --> 00:18:28.329 department was fabulous in coming up with the 00:18:28.329 --> 00:18:31.430 name. You'll notice the U -N is small letters. 00:18:31.710 --> 00:18:37.069 B -I -A -S, Bias, Caps, and E -D. It's Understanding. 00:18:38.140 --> 00:18:41.799 and educating about bias. That's how that came 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:47.200 about. And so we remain committed to that goal. 00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:51.319 Our mission is to educate and bring awareness 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:56.839 to hatred and anti -Semitism through programming, 00:18:57.220 --> 00:19:03.680 through conversations, through education, but 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:08.289 also a big, big part of that with unbiased is 00:19:08.289 --> 00:19:14.509 we want to be allies to others and consequently 00:19:14.509 --> 00:19:20.029 gain allies in our struggle for fairness and 00:19:20.029 --> 00:19:25.720 for peaceful resolution of difference and And 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:27.980 I just put a plug in for our small group dialogues, 00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:32.960 which I was co -chair with Joe Jacoby. And I 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:36.160 said, I feel very, very strongly the way you. 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:39.680 get allies and get to know people as you look 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.099 them in the eye and you have a conversation and 00:19:42.099 --> 00:19:44.339 you get to know one another. So I'm going to 00:19:44.339 --> 00:19:47.799 take this opportunity to thank you, Iqbal, for 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:51.579 you and I met a couple of years ago. We both 00:19:51.579 --> 00:19:54.920 expressed interest in the other's work and it's 00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:59.589 developed into not just a working academic. relationship, 00:19:59.849 --> 00:20:02.289 but we've all become friends in our group. We 00:20:02.289 --> 00:20:06.450 trust one another, and we feel comfortable having 00:20:06.450 --> 00:20:10.890 difficult conversations about differences, and 00:20:10.890 --> 00:20:16.069 that is a true gift. Absolutely. Susan, I'll 00:20:16.069 --> 00:20:20.509 maybe let you have the last word, but what has 00:20:20.509 --> 00:20:24.130 your experience been like with the small group 00:20:24.130 --> 00:20:26.009 dialogue, and what are your hopes for the future? 00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:31.819 I have truly enjoyed the small group dialogues. 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:36.980 Thank you very much. Really, it's been interesting. 00:20:37.420 --> 00:20:41.680 It's been thought -provoking. It's been emotional. 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:47.339 There are certainly triggers that have come out. 00:20:48.339 --> 00:20:51.660 Mostly what I hope for is an ongoing relationship 00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:56.789 and getting to know You and getting to know the 00:20:56.789 --> 00:21:02.670 other members of the group more intimately. I 00:21:02.670 --> 00:21:05.789 think there's a lot to be gained by that. We 00:21:05.789 --> 00:21:09.849 have the trust where we are starting to talk. 00:21:10.089 --> 00:21:13.289 I certainly don't have expectations that our 00:21:13.289 --> 00:21:16.730 experiences are going to have been the same or 00:21:16.730 --> 00:21:20.069 that we'll necessarily see eye to eye. But I 00:21:20.069 --> 00:21:25.009 do hope for deeper understanding and compassion 00:21:25.009 --> 00:21:31.809 and caring for one another. And I hope that that 00:21:31.809 --> 00:21:37.730 can also allow us to feel really confident in 00:21:37.730 --> 00:21:40.970 ourselves as a group to be able to go out and 00:21:40.970 --> 00:21:44.529 continue that process and just allow it to grow 00:21:44.529 --> 00:21:52.019 and to flourish and to not... to be okay with 00:21:52.019 --> 00:21:56.019 being uncomfortable. Because that's how we all 00:21:56.019 --> 00:21:59.799 grow. The wobble is what's so important. And 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:04.539 for me, I am looking for opportunities to learn 00:22:04.539 --> 00:22:10.079 more and to grow and to further my valuable relationships 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:13.059 with people. Thank you so much. Can I add one 00:22:13.059 --> 00:22:17.930 last thing? Sure. Thank you. I watched some of 00:22:17.930 --> 00:22:21.289 your other podcasts, and I just want to add this. 00:22:21.349 --> 00:22:24.430 If others are thinking about doing this interfaith 00:22:24.430 --> 00:22:28.470 work or interfaith dialogue, I would encourage 00:22:28.470 --> 00:22:34.289 you to always start with food. Agreed. We like 00:22:34.289 --> 00:22:37.130 it. It's an icebreaker. You eat together. You 00:22:37.130 --> 00:22:41.329 talk together about what foods you like. really 00:22:41.329 --> 00:22:45.349 listen to one another. We all have stories we 00:22:45.349 --> 00:22:47.890 want to share but it's really important to really 00:22:47.890 --> 00:22:50.849 listen and understand where the other person 00:22:50.849 --> 00:22:53.950 is coming from and what their life experience 00:22:53.950 --> 00:22:58.029 up until this moment has been that brought them 00:22:58.029 --> 00:23:01.509 to this point in feeling the way they feel. Absolutely, 00:23:01.690 --> 00:23:03.650 yeah. No, I mean I think for me especially it's 00:23:03.650 --> 00:23:08.170 been very illuminating to be able to understand 00:23:08.170 --> 00:23:11.940 like a Jewish perspective. And especially understanding 00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:14.359 sort of anti -Semitism and sort of the challenges 00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:18.700 of October 7th, I think, from a Jewish perspective. 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:22.099 And on a personal level, it's been really wonderful 00:23:22.099 --> 00:23:25.319 to see how you've embraced me and my family as 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:27.220 well. So especially, you know, my young son. 00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.519 And sometimes I have caregiving duties, so I 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.200 have to take him everywhere. And you guys have 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:35.339 been so hospitable and so kind. And that's just 00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:37.940 been, that means a lot to me. So I really appreciate 00:23:37.940 --> 00:23:40.539 that. That's been a pleasure. Yes. So I think 00:23:40.539 --> 00:23:42.420 what we can do is in the fall, then we continue 00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:46.220 with, I think, going through our experiences, 00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:49.599 kind of our Muslim background and Muslim perspectives. 00:23:49.940 --> 00:23:52.579 And I think even having Zafreen talk, I think, 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:54.920 would be very interesting because her experience 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:56.859 living and growing up in Pakistan and coming 00:23:56.859 --> 00:24:01.079 to the United States. And I think that there's 00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:03.980 just so much there in terms of thinking about. 00:24:04.670 --> 00:24:08.470 What does it mean to encounter diversity? And 00:24:08.470 --> 00:24:10.670 the way that Jews are seen in Pakistan is completely 00:24:10.670 --> 00:24:15.450 different. And kind of what work can be done 00:24:15.450 --> 00:24:17.549 in terms of anti -Semitism globally, I think 00:24:17.549 --> 00:24:19.769 that's a whole other discussion as well. Oh, 00:24:19.769 --> 00:24:23.750 wow. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Look forward to that. 00:24:23.750 --> 00:24:26.309 Well, thank you guys so much for coming and for 00:24:26.309 --> 00:24:28.730 allowing yourselves to be interviewed. I learned 00:24:28.730 --> 00:24:31.109 a lot, and we'll continue the conversation for 00:24:31.109 --> 00:24:33.750 sure. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:34.759 Thank you.