WEBVTT 00:00:05.419 --> 00:00:09.080 Welcome. Thank you for joining us again for another 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:14.539 episode of the Interfaiths podcast here at FRU, 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:18.140 working on... trying to build interfaith dialogue 00:00:18.140 --> 00:00:22.019 and respect for all religious traditions, including 00:00:22.019 --> 00:00:25.219 those with no religious traditions, and creating 00:00:25.219 --> 00:00:28.199 a pluralistic world. So we're here. We're very 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:31.579 honored to have Professor Jeanette Smith, who 00:00:31.579 --> 00:00:33.899 is an institution in the South Florida community, 00:00:34.219 --> 00:00:37.340 has done tremendous work in terms of social justice, 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:41.359 especially advocating for workers' rights, interfaith 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:44.880 dialogue, and particularly all forms of social 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:46.420 justice and trying to make the world a better 00:00:46.420 --> 00:00:48.140 place. world a better place. She's had lots of 00:00:48.140 --> 00:00:52.179 setbacks and challenges. Unfortunately, I think 00:00:52.179 --> 00:00:53.640 we're going through one of those periods right 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:58.460 now. But she is an inspiration. She always comes 00:00:58.460 --> 00:01:03.179 to the classroom, to meetings, in a very positive 00:01:03.179 --> 00:01:05.780 spirit, always has something positive to say, 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:09.640 and is hopeful. She's a community builder, someone 00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:12.400 who gathers all types of interest and people 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:16.239 together towards a vision of a better future, 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:19.340 a vision of a more just sort of society and really 00:01:19.340 --> 00:01:22.579 pours her heart, her time, her energy, you know, 00:01:22.579 --> 00:01:25.840 into people who are perfectly strangers, honestly, 00:01:26.140 --> 00:01:28.620 and trying to make the world a better place by 00:01:28.620 --> 00:01:31.040 touching people's lives. So she's done a tremendous 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:35.459 amount. And she's kind of one of our, I think, 00:01:35.459 --> 00:01:37.840 our moral exemplars here in South Florida. And 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:39.819 we're very, very happy and honored to have her. 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:42.040 And she represents the Quaker community. So she's 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:43.620 going to talk a little bit about her personal 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:46.859 background, where she grew up and kind of some 00:01:46.859 --> 00:01:50.500 of the formative experiences that she had in 00:01:50.500 --> 00:01:54.359 terms of kind of what has made her this sort 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:58.760 of. person who really has a strong character 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:01.620 and has a strong moral foundation and vision 00:02:01.620 --> 00:02:03.859 for her life in terms of social justice, and 00:02:03.859 --> 00:02:06.640 talking a little bit about her journey towards 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:08.520 Quakerism as well. And then we'll continue the 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:11.020 conversation from there. So welcome, Jeanette. 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:14.000 Thank you. I don't even know how to go after 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:18.400 that. That was a lot. It's very nice to be here. 00:02:18.460 --> 00:02:19.919 I think this is very cool that you're doing these 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:22.139 series. This is nice. So where do you want me 00:02:22.139 --> 00:02:23.759 to start? Just a little bit about... Yeah, where 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:27.840 did you grow up? A small town in Northern Maryland. 00:02:29.139 --> 00:02:31.180 There were two streets, Main Street and Church 00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:33.699 Street. Church Street had the church. Main Street 00:02:33.699 --> 00:02:35.780 had everything else. We really did get our mail. 00:02:35.900 --> 00:02:38.539 There was like a little general store. That's 00:02:38.539 --> 00:02:41.259 where we got our mail. So definitely grew up 00:02:41.259 --> 00:02:44.080 out in the country. Great place, actually, in 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.879 a lot of ways to grow up. You know, playing, 00:02:47.060 --> 00:02:51.180 running, climbing trees. And at that time, I'm 00:02:51.180 --> 00:02:54.120 sure it's changed a lot since I grew up. Not 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.680 a whole lot of people went away even to college 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:00.979 where I grew up. My high school took several 00:03:00.979 --> 00:03:03.800 different towns to fill up one high school. And 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:05.960 it was probably the size of one class at Palmetto 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:09.500 now or something. So it was small. It was small. 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:11.860 But I was also one of those kids that wanted 00:03:11.860 --> 00:03:14.039 to see the whole world. And there was a show, 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:15.879 The Big Blue Marble. And at the end of it, you 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:17.639 could write a letter if you wanted a pen pal. 00:03:18.340 --> 00:03:20.860 And so I had pen pals all over the world. And 00:03:20.860 --> 00:03:22.659 in fact, my first one, the next biggest town 00:03:22.659 --> 00:03:24.219 next to us. was Manchester was from Manchester, 00:03:24.419 --> 00:03:26.939 Jamaica, because my teacher came in one day with 00:03:26.939 --> 00:03:28.840 letters and said from different Manchesters around 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:30.939 the world and said, who wants a pen pal? And 00:03:30.939 --> 00:03:34.099 up my hand went. So my very first pen pal was 00:03:34.099 --> 00:03:36.039 from Manchester, Jamaica. And I later got to 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:38.860 meet her when I studied in Jamaica, like years 00:03:38.860 --> 00:03:44.199 later in law school. Yeah, yeah. So it could 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:46.379 have gone a different way if I didn't have the 00:03:46.379 --> 00:03:49.030 interest that I had. You know, which is kind 00:03:49.030 --> 00:03:51.150 of why I ended up at Florida International University 00:03:51.150 --> 00:03:56.090 as well. What about your parents in terms of 00:03:56.090 --> 00:04:00.330 how did they help to shape you? Well, my parents 00:04:00.330 --> 00:04:02.050 actually divorced when I was rather young. I 00:04:02.050 --> 00:04:04.689 was born in Pittsburgh and I grew up, well, I 00:04:04.689 --> 00:04:07.710 moved to the Azores. My dad was in the military. 00:04:07.789 --> 00:04:10.409 He was in the Air Force. And my brother was born 00:04:10.409 --> 00:04:12.430 there. For years, we've had to constantly explain 00:04:12.430 --> 00:04:15.009 to people, no, he is a citizen. He is a citizen. 00:04:15.990 --> 00:04:18.629 But we came back to the U .S. probably when I 00:04:18.629 --> 00:04:21.430 was about three and a half. And my mom was actually 00:04:21.430 --> 00:04:23.209 briefly, she was married another three and a 00:04:23.209 --> 00:04:26.129 half years after that. And that's a nice part 00:04:26.129 --> 00:04:28.949 of the story. My stepfather was a rather violent 00:04:28.949 --> 00:04:35.170 person. And I admire my mom for having the courage 00:04:35.170 --> 00:04:38.449 in a small town to leave that type of situation. 00:04:39.579 --> 00:04:41.620 Because a lot of people wouldn't. Because, I 00:04:41.620 --> 00:04:43.120 mean, now you're divorced twice, you might as 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.620 well be wearing a scarlet letter, right? But 00:04:45.620 --> 00:04:49.199 she had the courage to leave it and to then work 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:51.660 three jobs taking care of my brother and I. So 00:04:51.660 --> 00:04:55.379 I think that I really, you know, my grandmother 00:04:55.379 --> 00:04:57.420 had been a schoolteacher, you know, fourth grade 00:04:57.420 --> 00:04:59.160 schoolteacher. And the school where I went when 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.379 I was little, she was a teacher there. And so 00:05:01.379 --> 00:05:03.279 I think a lot of my influences are from her because 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.199 my mom was so busy working just to take care 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:08.000 of us. You know, and then my uncle was a reader 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:09.579 and he said, you take a book everywhere you go 00:05:09.579 --> 00:05:10.959 because you never know when you'll have a chance 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:17.779 to read. So a lot of things. So I started carrying 00:05:17.779 --> 00:05:19.660 books everywhere I went. So I think between my 00:05:19.660 --> 00:05:22.579 grandmother, you know, between my uncle, I was 00:05:22.579 --> 00:05:24.899 just, you know, this idea that you just read. 00:05:24.980 --> 00:05:26.740 And I think that's probably what exposed me to 00:05:26.740 --> 00:05:28.439 the idea that there was this much bigger world 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:31.399 out there that I wanted to see. And in fact, 00:05:31.420 --> 00:05:32.779 though, here's an interesting thing, because 00:05:32.779 --> 00:05:37.279 you mentioned about being Quaker. I was not raised 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:40.879 Quaker. I was actually baptized Catholic because 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:42.879 my father was Catholic. My mom was Lutheran. 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.699 In marriages where one party is Catholic, the 00:05:46.699 --> 00:05:49.759 other is not, the rule is that you baptize Catholic. 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:51.980 My aunt always said it was a plot to take over 00:05:51.980 --> 00:05:54.480 the world, marriage by marriage, child by child, 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:59.779 because I didn't grow up with my dad. And then 00:05:59.779 --> 00:06:03.100 my mom was just working all the time. Even my 00:06:03.100 --> 00:06:04.860 stepfather, when she got married, was Lutheran. 00:06:04.860 --> 00:06:07.360 And he made the silly excuse, oh, we can't go 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:08.980 to church because they're Catholic and we're 00:06:08.980 --> 00:06:11.240 little kids. You could have taken us anywhere, 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:15.699 right? And so I really just didn't grow up going 00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:18.800 to church at all. But like I said, spent so much 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.079 time with my grandmother, who was half Native 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:23.839 American. So I think a lot of the ideas and the 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:26.100 way I saw things were that influence from her. 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:30.459 And it was actually when I was in, I'd gone to 00:06:30.459 --> 00:06:35.319 Singapore to study. Okay. And my two women I 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:37.160 was closest to while I was there, I was studying 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:39.620 and working in a law firm, were an attorney who 00:06:39.620 --> 00:06:43.220 was Sikh and then another woman who was Malay 00:06:43.220 --> 00:06:45.459 who was Muslim. And those were the two women 00:06:45.459 --> 00:06:47.100 I was closest to while I was there. And when 00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:50.379 I came back from Singapore, which is an extraordinary 00:06:50.379 --> 00:06:54.079 place because the diversity of religions, of 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:56.399 people, of cultures, of languages. And when I 00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:01.110 came back. I really realized that, you know, 00:07:01.110 --> 00:07:04.430 it didn't matter. Like, I may believe what I 00:07:04.430 --> 00:07:06.930 believe, but I don't disbelieve what others believe. 00:07:07.089 --> 00:07:09.170 Like, I was okay with that. I was very comfortable 00:07:09.170 --> 00:07:14.069 with that. And that I, you know, because, you 00:07:14.069 --> 00:07:15.689 know, the things we're told when we're little. 00:07:15.829 --> 00:07:18.129 This guy is blue. Okay, it's blue. And we just 00:07:18.129 --> 00:07:20.689 kind of accept these without necessarily questioning 00:07:20.689 --> 00:07:23.769 them. So I came back with, you know, it mattered 00:07:23.769 --> 00:07:26.600 that I believed what I believed. But it was okay. 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:29.500 I didn't disbelieve other things. And I came 00:07:29.500 --> 00:07:32.600 back with that idea. And that is actually when 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:35.100 I actually went through confirmation. So let's 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:36.480 not tell the Archbishop this. I went through 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:38.620 confirmation into the church. I did an adult 00:07:38.620 --> 00:07:42.199 confirmation. They kept putting me in the group 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:44.720 with the nun. So these are adult confirmations. 00:07:44.779 --> 00:07:47.079 And interestingly in this group, because at this 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:50.319 point I had a law degree, the deacon was an attorney. 00:07:50.900 --> 00:07:53.139 There was an attorney that was in a mixed marriage 00:07:53.139 --> 00:07:55.060 that was converting. So there was a different 00:07:55.060 --> 00:07:59.800 kind of group. It's not your average conversion 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:02.100 group. And they kept putting me in the group 00:08:02.100 --> 00:08:04.279 with the nun. And I thought that was so funny. 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:08.060 And she said one time, this was a little bit 00:08:08.060 --> 00:08:11.560 pre -Vatican too. She thought that if you weren't 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:14.560 Catholic, you went to hell. But wait, and I had 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.000 this example of a goat herd in Nepal. This was 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:18.740 really important to me, this goat herd. Because 00:08:18.740 --> 00:08:21.860 I was like, he's a good goat herd, right? And 00:08:21.860 --> 00:08:24.180 he takes care of the goats. He takes care, you 00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:26.160 know, he's a good person in his village. He's 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:29.759 a good husband, good father, good son. This person's 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.100 going to hell because they're not Catholic. I 00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:34.559 don't get it. And then she finally said, okay, 00:08:34.620 --> 00:08:37.080 well, he wasn't. Goat herd was okay. But if you 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.879 left the Catholic church, that's where you would 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:44.129 go to hell. I was like, all righty. Anyway, so 00:08:44.129 --> 00:08:47.710 I go through the process. I have my confirmation. 00:08:47.789 --> 00:08:50.090 It was a moment. I definitely felt the spirit. 00:08:50.210 --> 00:08:54.830 It was an Easter vigil confirmation. In fact, 00:08:54.929 --> 00:08:58.750 my confirmation godmother was the dean of students 00:08:58.750 --> 00:09:01.929 from UMLL. She's passed away now because I've 00:09:01.929 --> 00:09:06.809 become very close to her over time. And it was 00:09:06.809 --> 00:09:08.309 a moment. It was definitely a moment for me. 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:12.350 Was constantly like I had learned things and 00:09:12.350 --> 00:09:14.350 read things when I was in Asia and I was thinking 00:09:14.350 --> 00:09:16.990 about Basil Wetherington and there had been two 00:09:16.990 --> 00:09:20.269 Catholic priests who had been in India and had 00:09:20.269 --> 00:09:22.350 been threatened with excommunication because 00:09:22.350 --> 00:09:26.129 they talked about like meditation. But nowadays 00:09:26.129 --> 00:09:29.870 seminaries have centering prayer and things like 00:09:29.870 --> 00:09:33.600 this. This is not. Yes, it's me. It's not. Seen 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:36.440 as, you know, heretical as it once was. So I 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:38.379 was constantly thinking, thinking, continuing. 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:43.799 And I then started to work for American Friends 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.440 Service Committee, which is a Quaker organization. 00:09:47.019 --> 00:09:49.519 It's global. And I was the Florida director, 00:09:49.700 --> 00:09:52.240 moved into shortly thereafter the regional director 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.259 for the Southeast. And, you know, I remember, 00:09:56.500 --> 00:09:58.100 though, when I went to fill in my application. 00:10:00.460 --> 00:10:02.559 After you turn in your resume, if they're interested 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:04.360 in you, you fill out an application. Because 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:06.159 they're faith -based, they can ask you questions 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:07.960 about your faith that you normally couldn't. 00:10:08.419 --> 00:10:10.360 And you read a little bit about Quakers, and 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:12.259 I start to answer questions. And as I'm writing 00:10:12.259 --> 00:10:16.840 my answers, it's like short essays, I start to 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:21.149 cry because I know this is what I am. This is 00:10:21.149 --> 00:10:24.090 without even a question in my mind. I could feel 00:10:24.090 --> 00:10:28.429 it. And I don't say anything. I apply. Okay, 00:10:28.590 --> 00:10:30.809 day comes for the interviews. Quakers, we interview 00:10:30.809 --> 00:10:33.029 by committee. We do everything by committee. 00:10:33.269 --> 00:10:35.690 So you've got the committee of staff, the committee 00:10:35.690 --> 00:10:39.769 of regional directors and things. And I was the 00:10:39.769 --> 00:10:42.779 last person interviewed that day. And in fact, 00:10:42.820 --> 00:10:45.220 the regional director at the time had been sure 00:10:45.220 --> 00:10:46.360 they were going to have to start again. They 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:47.860 weren't going to find anybody. And then I came 00:10:47.860 --> 00:10:51.240 in and we talked. I didn't really talk about 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:53.620 my faith in particular. We talked about how I 00:10:53.620 --> 00:10:55.960 saw social justice issues, immigration, different 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:58.659 issues. I had a diverse background. I studied 00:10:58.659 --> 00:11:01.679 in Jamaica, studied in Singapore. Mexico, Italy. 00:11:01.860 --> 00:11:06.240 And so we were talking and she assumed I was 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:08.700 Quaker during the interview. It never dawned 00:11:08.700 --> 00:11:12.039 on her I wasn't. And she was so excited about 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:14.179 me that she was making my to -do list already 00:11:14.179 --> 00:11:21.019 while I'm being interviewed. And it's an interesting 00:11:21.019 --> 00:11:23.799 thing because things that I believe that people 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:27.440 don't... you convert to something. I think you 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.240 discover what you are. I've always believed that. 00:11:30.580 --> 00:11:35.700 So to me, that's what I always was. I just, you 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:37.320 know, and it was interesting because when I talked 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:39.120 to my mom about it, my aunt, they said, you know, 00:11:39.220 --> 00:11:41.860 considering where we live, Northern Maryland, 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.019 that proximity to Pennsylvania, some of the ideas 00:11:44.019 --> 00:11:46.220 and all the time you spent with my grandmother 00:11:46.220 --> 00:11:50.320 and some of those ideas in, I think of Quaker, 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:56.320 Quakerism is like, it's more of um like a natural 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.059 faith right exactly you know and there's ideas 00:11:59.059 --> 00:12:01.759 about mysticism and things and to me that fit 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:04.039 a lot of the beliefs that like my grandmother 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:06.980 grew up with and things so it just it it was 00:12:06.980 --> 00:12:09.580 just who i am yeah i think it also explained 00:12:09.580 --> 00:12:11.960 to why when i was practicing law and working 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:14.960 with a lot of reggae artists and i worked a lot 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:18.500 of rastafari and um they always say say yeah 00:12:18.500 --> 00:12:20.600 rasta you're not know it i'm like no no i'm not 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:25.129 but It was because I was able, again, another 00:12:25.129 --> 00:12:27.470 natural fate, because I was able to speak in 00:12:27.470 --> 00:12:31.129 a way that they related to, but they also spoke 00:12:31.129 --> 00:12:35.490 in a way I related to. So I don't think I became 00:12:35.490 --> 00:12:38.129 Quaker. I think I always was Quaker. I discovered 00:12:38.129 --> 00:12:41.529 that I was Quaker and haven't left the path since. 00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:45.110 Well, that's amazing. So you now know more than 00:12:45.110 --> 00:12:47.110 a lot of people do about my journey. No, I mean, 00:12:47.110 --> 00:12:49.070 it's quite a remarkable journey. I mean, I know 00:12:49.070 --> 00:12:51.429 that there was a lot of depth there. Because 00:12:51.429 --> 00:12:54.789 it's something that you do. I think, I mean, 00:12:54.809 --> 00:12:58.009 from my perspective, you really live the values 00:12:58.009 --> 00:13:00.049 that I've seen among the Quakers. And particularly, 00:13:00.190 --> 00:13:04.850 I was more exposed to the American Foreign Service 00:13:04.850 --> 00:13:06.570 Committee and kind of some of the work that they 00:13:06.570 --> 00:13:10.960 do, particularly. And this is kind of also some 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:12.200 of the work that I do with the Jewish community, 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:14.500 but especially after 9 -11. So there were some 00:13:14.500 --> 00:13:16.600 of the few organizations that really stepped 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:18.039 up and said, we're going to support Muslims. 00:13:18.259 --> 00:13:21.600 Because at that point, people were like, we don't 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:23.159 want to deal with Muslims. They're all terrorists. 00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:25.539 They're horrible people. And that was like a 00:13:25.539 --> 00:13:27.779 mainstream line across the United States and 00:13:27.779 --> 00:13:30.240 particularly sort of in conservative circles. 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:34.840 And it was just remarkable to see people like 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.139 the Quakers that stood up and were like, no, 00:13:37.179 --> 00:13:39.460 we're not going to. against hate a lot of the 00:13:39.460 --> 00:13:42.399 liberal Jewish groups also um you know stood 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:44.700 up for for Muslim rights the Japanese Americans 00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:48.299 also stood up so um yeah so I'm very indebted 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:50.240 and I have a lot of admiration for the Quakers 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.340 and I think that that especially the other thing 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:54.279 that I think is really remarkable that I think 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:58.620 American Muslims can learn a lot from is um just 00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:02.360 the way that Quakers are um very much embedded 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:04.860 within American culture and society and yet they 00:14:04.860 --> 00:14:12.580 can take very um and create moral authority around 00:14:12.580 --> 00:14:14.360 it. And I think, like, one of the things that 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:17.899 I really found remarkable is pacifism. I think 00:14:17.899 --> 00:14:21.960 that is such a powerful moral virtue that's really 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:23.860 not mainstream. It's not something that, you 00:14:23.860 --> 00:14:25.980 know, people really agree with, but at the same 00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:29.159 time, like, the way the Quakers own it is a way 00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:32.639 that they're able to really help direct the... 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:34.980 They have moral authority in America based on 00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:37.240 things like that, you know. It's interesting 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:38.960 you mention that because I remember one time 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:40.480 somebody wrote me a letter, somebody from Kentucky 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:42.779 or something. He saw an article where I'd been 00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:45.960 interviewed, and he said, oh, it's admirable, 00:14:46.059 --> 00:14:49.120 it's admirable, pacifist. He goes, but that's 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:51.179 the easy route. And I thought, wow, then you 00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:54.419 really don't know what it is. I mean, it was 00:14:54.419 --> 00:14:56.340 a really respectful response I had, but I thought, 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:58.720 you really don't know how difficult it can be. 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:03.309 I remember my younger cousin, he's... uh probably 00:15:03.309 --> 00:15:05.470 about 15 years younger and he at one point when 00:15:05.470 --> 00:15:08.330 he was like college said no she speaks out too 00:15:08.330 --> 00:15:10.710 much to be a pacifist i'm like well you don't 00:15:10.710 --> 00:15:13.490 know what exactly and it was really interesting 00:15:13.490 --> 00:15:16.250 how people have like an idea in their mind as 00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:20.519 to what pacifism means and And I also recognize 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.740 that to be pacifist in some countries is far 00:15:24.740 --> 00:15:29.039 easier than in other countries. I get that. But 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:31.539 at the same time, it's not necessarily an easy 00:15:31.539 --> 00:15:34.259 route and you can talk about it. But what would 00:15:34.259 --> 00:15:37.740 you do in the moment? And I have this talk sometimes 00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:39.320 with my students and like in charter religion, 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:41.360 sometimes we talk about different things. And 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:44.120 I'm not shy about sharing my background with 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.990 them because I if. I hope, if nothing else, they 00:15:46.990 --> 00:15:50.350 come out of my classes recognizing that we all 00:15:50.350 --> 00:15:52.029 have our own biases, the way we were raised. 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:54.580 culturally, religious, whatever it is, right? 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.700 That that's all intertwined. But other people 00:15:57.700 --> 00:16:01.059 have other beliefs and that's okay too. But I 00:16:01.059 --> 00:16:04.440 said, I don't think I'm fair to you if I'm asking 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.340 you to recognize your biases if I don't share 00:16:06.340 --> 00:16:09.419 mine. And I always will explain, you know, and 00:16:09.419 --> 00:16:10.759 they're always very interested because a lot 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:13.039 of times professors don't tell them, but I feel 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:14.559 like I'm telling them as part of like a moment. 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:17.259 And I said, so it's important for me to be able 00:16:17.259 --> 00:16:18.940 to, and I tell them one of the advantages of 00:16:18.940 --> 00:16:21.240 the work I do both in the community and the classroom 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:23.840 is that. Because I do believe everybody's path 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:27.000 is equally valid. I'm not imposing that on anybody. 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:29.259 But I'm also coming from a certain perspective. 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.279 And I sometimes tell them, I said, I wonder about 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:37.299 those moments, you know. If my mother were in 00:16:37.299 --> 00:16:39.100 danger, how would I respond? There's a lot of 00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:41.639 things I try to talk my way out of first. Well, 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:44.080 what would I do? It's my mom. Exactly. Like we 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.919 think we know. Right. And I had an interesting 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:50.759 situation last year with a student who has now 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:54.490 been expelled. who was rather violent. Right. 00:16:54.909 --> 00:16:58.730 And very aggressive in my inter -religious dialogue 00:16:58.730 --> 00:17:01.870 class, actually. And was up and, you know, was 00:17:01.870 --> 00:17:03.769 kind of challenging with the other students and 00:17:03.769 --> 00:17:05.849 then came up and finger in my face and, what 00:17:05.849 --> 00:17:07.650 do you think about that? And he went to sit down. 00:17:08.009 --> 00:17:10.710 And I, and this is probably just being me, but 00:17:10.710 --> 00:17:14.170 also being me as a Quaker, I said, well, it strikes 00:17:14.170 --> 00:17:17.250 me as a bit aggressive. And it struck him, how 00:17:17.250 --> 00:17:20.380 did she stay so calm? Like, I didn't... You know, 00:17:20.380 --> 00:17:23.079 plus, let's be frank. I've also learned you can't 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:25.500 show fear to the bully. You don't. You don't. 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:27.299 It's worse. And I said, you know, it strikes 00:17:27.299 --> 00:17:29.359 me as rather aggressive. And he got so angry, 00:17:29.420 --> 00:17:32.700 he stormed out of the room. Yay. After that, 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:35.200 they put, we had plainclothes detectives outside 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.079 two of my classes for the rest of the semester. 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:39.859 But a couple of the students were really surprised, 00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:41.619 especially the young women. Like, how did you 00:17:41.619 --> 00:17:43.279 stay so calm? Even a couple of the guys were 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:46.690 like. That's probably already embedded within 00:17:46.690 --> 00:17:48.430 me. So maybe that was one of those moments where 00:17:48.430 --> 00:17:52.410 you sort of see. But at the same time, his things 00:17:52.410 --> 00:17:54.710 progressed with him and there was a lot of negative 00:17:54.710 --> 00:18:01.369 communication threats. I remember somebody was 00:18:01.369 --> 00:18:03.910 suggesting to me from the FIU police and things 00:18:03.910 --> 00:18:06.049 like I should carry mace or something like that, 00:18:06.130 --> 00:18:09.430 just in case. And I really, I had to sit there 00:18:09.430 --> 00:18:12.029 and think about that. And I went online, I looked 00:18:12.029 --> 00:18:14.809 for Quaker groups, and there was one woman who 00:18:14.809 --> 00:18:16.829 had bought mace at a suggestion and never took 00:18:16.829 --> 00:18:19.589 it out of the package. And I was like, I couldn't 00:18:19.589 --> 00:18:22.690 find it in me. I understood that people were 00:18:22.690 --> 00:18:26.049 saying it would be defensive, but it would still 00:18:26.049 --> 00:18:29.599 be violent. And I really had to think about how 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:35.819 do I keep myself safe in a way that's nonviolent. 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:38.539 So I had to think a lot about timing, where I 00:18:38.539 --> 00:18:41.099 went, what I did. And I'm sure he's moved on 00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:43.619 to bothering someone else now. Not a good thing. 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:49.130 But that was a bit of a test. absolutely that 00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:51.470 was a bit of a test yeah absolutely yeah no i 00:18:51.470 --> 00:18:53.069 think that there's these real life situations 00:18:53.069 --> 00:18:55.309 i mean one of the things i also like about the 00:18:55.309 --> 00:18:57.250 department also is that we've been able to connect 00:18:57.250 --> 00:19:00.940 with um the jane community yes i love that's 00:19:00.940 --> 00:19:03.799 been such such a so much to learn from i think 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.079 yes in terms of their own tradition of non -violence 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:08.400 and what that means and there's just you know 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.740 the non -violence of intention of thought of 00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:12.960 speech and there are all these like philosophical 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.880 dimensions to it i think that's been a lot of 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.059 fun to sort of learn through oh we talk a lot 00:19:17.059 --> 00:19:19.519 about like positive peace right and it's it's 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:21.400 more than just like the absence of tension it's 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:23.660 the presence of justice so that's another whole 00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:27.539 angle there and it was funny i at one point took 00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:30.480 the sacred source class with a professor who 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.480 used to be here, Steve Bose. We got to write 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.700 after the Jane lecture. He was so impressed with 00:19:37.700 --> 00:19:40.039 what I wrote. He says, you should look into doing 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:41.920 the fellowship. You should this and that. You 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:45.019 just understand. I'm like, I just understand 00:19:45.019 --> 00:19:48.619 what it means to be Quaker. I feel like Jane 00:19:48.619 --> 00:19:50.420 sometimes put us to shame because they're all 00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:52.920 next level. It was so fascinating that what he 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.579 saw in me as an understanding of Janeism was 00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:59.500 actually Where I was coming from already. Yeah. 00:19:59.700 --> 00:20:01.880 I remember thinking that was funny. Yeah. No, 00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:03.579 I mean, I think a lot of this stuff is like they're 00:20:03.579 --> 00:20:06.859 very deep, eternal truths that these faith traditions 00:20:06.859 --> 00:20:09.099 are able to sort of understand and express. And 00:20:09.099 --> 00:20:11.480 so just finding those commonalities, I think, 00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:14.099 is like extremely rewarding. And it's also really 00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:18.519 nice to see it reflected in other people and 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:21.319 to have those conversations. I think especially 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:23.619 in these troubling times, it's always wonderful 00:20:23.619 --> 00:20:26.579 to see other people that have similar values, 00:20:26.740 --> 00:20:29.109 you know. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, it's 00:20:29.109 --> 00:20:30.549 interesting when you say that, though, because 00:20:30.549 --> 00:20:32.789 there's people I feel, because I do, as you mentioned, 00:20:32.849 --> 00:20:35.829 a lot of interfaith work, have for years, American 00:20:35.829 --> 00:20:37.990 Friends Service Committee, South Florida Faith 00:20:37.990 --> 00:20:43.410 Worker Justice, Mosaic previously, MCCJ. I used 00:20:43.410 --> 00:20:44.930 to co -chair the clergy dialogue. One of the 00:20:44.930 --> 00:20:46.789 first times I'd ever had a non -clergy person 00:20:46.789 --> 00:20:51.660 because my tradition doesn't have clergy. You 00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:56.839 still get these truths across. Judith, who's 00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:00.819 now kind of chairing us, as you know, I connect 00:21:00.819 --> 00:21:03.099 with her. We've been on panels together, and 00:21:03.099 --> 00:21:04.920 we've been asked questions about different topics, 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.319 and we always say afterwards, I totally agree 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:08.779 with what you said. I'm like, I totally agree 00:21:08.779 --> 00:21:10.640 with what you said. But now she's coming from 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.799 a Jewish tradition. But it's like there's people 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:16.640 I feel like I connect with, and it doesn't have 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.299 anything to do. with what their particular faith 00:21:20.299 --> 00:21:23.039 is. It's those underlying truths. Right, right. 00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:25.980 Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about your interfaith 00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:28.359 work, you know, like kind of what you've learned 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:30.900 over the years in terms of doing this sort of 00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:35.059 work. Any sort of lessons learned? That's interesting. 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:40.380 I think one of the most important things, well, 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.039 first of all, I think it goes to the underlying 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:44.440 truths. Like when we talk about things, like 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:46.359 I've done a lot around workers' rights, you know, 00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:49.409 low -wage workers in particular. immigration 00:21:49.409 --> 00:21:51.990 -related issues, that there are a lot of underlying 00:21:51.990 --> 00:21:54.809 truths that are the same across traditions. I 00:21:54.809 --> 00:21:56.650 often say to my students, I don't know a tradition, 00:21:56.849 --> 00:21:58.690 and there may be one, but I don't know one that 00:21:58.690 --> 00:22:01.170 says, go steal from your workers. That's not 00:22:01.170 --> 00:22:04.809 something that's taught. And so I think there's 00:22:04.809 --> 00:22:07.509 a lot of similarities in that regard. I also 00:22:07.509 --> 00:22:11.529 think that it's important to know, when I was 00:22:11.529 --> 00:22:16.670 a little girl, I had this idea that... There 00:22:16.670 --> 00:22:18.809 was God and everybody just called God different 00:22:18.809 --> 00:22:21.450 things. Right. And it's a lot more complex than 00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:22.849 that. But when I was a little girl in Maryland 00:22:22.849 --> 00:22:24.529 in my two street town, that's what I thought. 00:22:24.589 --> 00:22:27.329 Right. And I think that it's important to know 00:22:27.329 --> 00:22:29.569 that you're not necessarily going to agree on 00:22:29.569 --> 00:22:33.029 everything. That's OK. You what are the and even 00:22:33.029 --> 00:22:34.869 people in general, if you're looking at social 00:22:34.869 --> 00:22:36.789 justice types of topics are not going to have 00:22:36.789 --> 00:22:40.029 the same ideas. So what are the things? that 00:22:40.029 --> 00:22:42.710 you can meet on. Where are the things that you're 00:22:42.710 --> 00:22:45.410 in the same place on? And that you can work on 00:22:45.410 --> 00:22:47.109 these issues because you're in that same place. 00:22:47.210 --> 00:22:49.049 Because I think sometimes people think it's going 00:22:49.049 --> 00:22:52.430 to be across the board. And it's not. And I've 00:22:52.430 --> 00:22:56.369 been involved with numerous interfaith services. 00:22:57.230 --> 00:23:01.069 And sometimes a complaint, not of those services, 00:23:01.250 --> 00:23:02.910 but of other events I've seen in the community 00:23:02.910 --> 00:23:05.690 that have been interfaith, has been people have 00:23:05.690 --> 00:23:08.309 felt like their beliefs got watered down. So 00:23:08.309 --> 00:23:09.849 that nobody was saying something the other people 00:23:09.849 --> 00:23:12.809 didn't agree with. That's a danger. That's a 00:23:12.809 --> 00:23:15.509 danger. The interface services I've been involved 00:23:15.509 --> 00:23:18.410 with have fortunately not been that. We all were 00:23:18.410 --> 00:23:19.829 part of it. There may have been an overarching 00:23:19.829 --> 00:23:22.309 theme, but we were all part speaking from our 00:23:22.309 --> 00:23:25.390 traditions. So I think that's really important. 00:23:25.589 --> 00:23:27.349 Because if you're looking for everybody to agree, 00:23:27.650 --> 00:23:29.549 you're going to water it down to something somewhat 00:23:29.549 --> 00:23:32.509 meaningless. Exactly. So I think that's important. 00:23:32.630 --> 00:23:34.650 And I think sometimes people who aren't accustomed 00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:37.519 to doing that work. don't realize that right 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:40.880 like we're we're okay with not agreeing on everything 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.940 it's perfectly fine exactly and in fact that's 00:23:43.940 --> 00:23:46.359 why i've involved it really enjoy being involved 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:49.720 with like clergy dialogue for example where we 00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:52.740 would have sometimes theological topics and i 00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:55.299 always get invited to speak from a certain perspective 00:23:55.299 --> 00:23:57.740 when it's the workers you know but you'll have 00:23:57.740 --> 00:23:59.420 like a jewish perspective a muslim perspective 00:23:59.420 --> 00:24:03.009 you know um a christian perspective which I feel 00:24:03.009 --> 00:24:04.890 there. Let's go broader. You just say Christian. 00:24:04.950 --> 00:24:08.109 I don't know what that means. I'll tell you a 00:24:08.109 --> 00:24:10.690 little secret too. People don't always realize 00:24:10.690 --> 00:24:12.690 this. I know that Quakers are considered to be 00:24:12.690 --> 00:24:15.589 one of the Protestant sects. Not usually if you 00:24:15.589 --> 00:24:19.190 ask Quakers. So some Quakers will tell you they 00:24:19.190 --> 00:24:21.009 are Christian. Other Quakers will tell you that 00:24:21.009 --> 00:24:24.369 they're not. And I remember I was dating a guy 00:24:24.369 --> 00:24:26.170 for several years and something came up and I 00:24:26.170 --> 00:24:28.349 said, but I'm not Christian. He says, but you're 00:24:28.349 --> 00:24:31.390 Quaker. I said, yes. So you're Christian. No. 00:24:31.609 --> 00:24:35.190 He's like, wait, I have to stop our whole relationship 00:24:35.190 --> 00:24:36.890 for a minute and say, wait, explain this to me. 00:24:37.069 --> 00:24:42.890 Because it's not, once upon a time when the religion 00:24:42.890 --> 00:24:45.210 was first founded, it was considered a separate 00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:47.069 branch of Christianity, outside Protestants, 00:24:47.069 --> 00:24:49.670 outside Catholics. But I think it's come to the 00:24:49.670 --> 00:24:51.930 place because so much of what we do is that idea 00:24:51.930 --> 00:24:53.970 of the spirit or that of God within everyone 00:24:53.970 --> 00:24:58.869 and that light within and that reflective piece 00:24:58.869 --> 00:25:02.500 that... There are folks who are more Christocentric, 00:25:02.619 --> 00:25:05.720 but there are others who are not. And it doesn't 00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:10.319 make us any less Quaker. So, for example, the 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.799 meeting here, the Miami Friends meeting, tends 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:18.420 to, in my mind, be more traditional. It's interesting 00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:20.680 because we're probably progressive in our social 00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:25.740 ideas, but traditional in our practice. You may 00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:28.359 not necessarily identify with being Christian 00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:30.500 when you're Quaker. I would never even propose 00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:32.920 to speak for all Quakers. Right, right, right. 00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:35.440 I've seen that, I think, with some of the other 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:40.759 more universal traditions within Christianity. 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.279 I work with the Unity Church and some of the 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:46.279 other groups. You'll see that within these movements 00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:48.859 as well. Right, right, right. So a lot of people 00:25:48.859 --> 00:25:50.859 don't realize that. Exactly. An assumption is 00:25:50.859 --> 00:25:53.849 made. Maybe true, may not be true. It depends 00:25:53.849 --> 00:25:54.930 on the Quaker you're speaking to. That's right, 00:25:54.950 --> 00:25:58.630 exactly. So, you know, with South Florida Interfaith 00:25:58.630 --> 00:26:00.609 Worker Justice, I work with a lot of clergy and 00:26:00.609 --> 00:26:03.690 had to gather clergy. A habit I have for anyone 00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:08.250 who wants to organize faith community, I always 00:26:08.250 --> 00:26:12.490 would go to someone's services first. I wanted 00:26:12.490 --> 00:26:14.410 to go to their house of worship. I wanted to 00:26:14.410 --> 00:26:16.390 get familiar with what was important to them. 00:26:16.589 --> 00:26:19.170 You know, what's in their bulletin? What do they 00:26:19.170 --> 00:26:22.630 talk about? You know, then I would approach because 00:26:22.630 --> 00:26:27.950 I really was looking. It could be like I knew 00:26:27.950 --> 00:26:29.950 what we were working on and I knew that it was. 00:26:30.639 --> 00:26:32.799 shared amongst many traditions around worker 00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.039 justice but i also needed to know like what mattered 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:36.579 to them what were the issues of importance to 00:26:36.579 --> 00:26:38.019 them i love that i think that's great yeah it 00:26:38.019 --> 00:26:40.400 makes a big difference yeah yeah because sometimes 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.200 and also when you're asking clergy to get involved 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:45.980 You have clergy that are from houses of worship 00:26:45.980 --> 00:26:48.359 that have, you know, multiple clergy, the senior, 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.579 the junior, the this, the that. But then you 00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:52.680 have others. It's one person who's trying to 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.500 do everything and their community has issues 00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:57.880 and someone just got evicted and this is happening 00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.279 and that is happening. So you really need to 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:03.720 find where's that connection? What am I doing 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.180 that speaks to what you all care about and are 00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:10.099 already doing? How can we work together? And 00:27:10.099 --> 00:27:12.359 it may be different. I used to kind of joke that 00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:14.000 sometimes there were the worker churches and 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:16.720 the employer churches. Interesting. So the employer 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.000 church is a little more interested in how it 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.079 fits their scripture, et cetera, et cetera. The 00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:22.759 worker church is like, can you come in and do 00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:24.319 some worker rights trainings about wage stuff? 00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:26.519 Can you talk to us about that? And they could 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:27.519 tell us where it is in the Bible. Can you help 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:28.779 us with the food pantry? Can you help us with 00:27:28.779 --> 00:27:30.880 the food pantry? Where are you? Yeah, and so 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:32.920 I feel like it's important to know where somebody's 00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:35.000 coming from. And these could be the same tradition, 00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:37.859 faith tradition. But they have different areas 00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:40.660 of concern at the moment. One thing I find fascinating, 00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:44.240 which I love with the Muslim community, it's 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:46.200 changing a little because there are a lot more 00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:49.259 mosques than there used to be. But one of the 00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:51.680 areas that's often socioeconomically separated 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.059 with certain traditions are the faith community 00:27:54.059 --> 00:27:55.779 because it's the neighborhood where you live. 00:27:55.900 --> 00:27:58.220 But because there's less mosques, there's more 00:27:58.220 --> 00:28:01.549 diversity. I love that. I love that. That's one 00:28:01.549 --> 00:28:02.930 of the things I've always appreciated. Yeah. 00:28:02.970 --> 00:28:05.170 I mean, there's like, I mean, especially to the 00:28:05.170 --> 00:28:06.690 mosque that I go to is the one that Michelle 00:28:06.690 --> 00:28:09.529 Lansar, the first mosque in Florida over there 00:28:09.529 --> 00:28:11.829 in Liberty City. And like when you go for Friday 00:28:11.829 --> 00:28:16.490 prayers, like 200, 300 people and like, like. 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:20.299 neurosurgeons down to like people who are working 00:28:20.299 --> 00:28:22.740 construction and like from all over the world 00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:25.940 from Morocco to Africa like anywhere in the world 00:28:25.940 --> 00:28:28.299 right um so it's quite remarkable just the diversity 00:28:28.299 --> 00:28:30.680 of people yeah and I love that and that's not 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.240 what happens in a lot it tends to happen more 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:37.940 if it is a community which has fewer yeah houses 00:28:37.940 --> 00:28:39.740 of worship because then people all come together 00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:42.519 exactly yeah yeah yeah no it's quite remarkable 00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:48.960 what have you seen that has um tanked interfaith 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.539 projects so things that made them not work out 00:28:51.539 --> 00:28:57.380 or the kind of fizzle out schedules okay because 00:28:57.380 --> 00:29:00.079 you're asking generally people who are already 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.539 very busy And so who you're going to have that 00:29:04.539 --> 00:29:06.960 gets involved is going to be somewhat dependent. 00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:09.599 You know, people who are retired may have more 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.660 time than say other people may have. If you're 00:29:11.660 --> 00:29:13.099 talking about clergy, I often dealt directly 00:29:13.099 --> 00:29:16.019 with clergy and with their social justice committees 00:29:16.019 --> 00:29:18.339 and things in different houses of worship. And 00:29:18.339 --> 00:29:23.220 so schedule was a big thing. Also, I really have 00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:26.990 seen not. As much with the interfaith community. 00:29:27.250 --> 00:29:30.029 But I have seen situations where people really 00:29:30.029 --> 00:29:32.130 weren't respectful enough of the other faiths. 00:29:33.210 --> 00:29:36.309 Not so much when it's all interfaith. That's 00:29:36.309 --> 00:29:38.589 pretty good. It's when you're also maybe dealing 00:29:38.589 --> 00:29:40.750 with some community groups and there's an overlap. 00:29:41.369 --> 00:29:43.710 I've had my own experiences when it's called 00:29:43.710 --> 00:29:46.099 South Florida Interfaith Worker Justice. you're 00:29:46.099 --> 00:29:48.039 going to be in meetings with all kinds of people. 00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:50.380 The Miami Worker Center, all kinds of different 00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:53.960 folks. And I remember the disparaging comments 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:55.880 that would be made of faith communities sometimes. 00:29:56.579 --> 00:30:00.119 And I would be like, sitting right here in front 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.660 of you, drafted that wage theft ordinance you're 00:30:02.660 --> 00:30:08.210 using, right? And sometimes there were folks, 00:30:08.289 --> 00:30:10.190 if you were working on something that might be 00:30:10.190 --> 00:30:12.289 seen as a little more progressive, there were 00:30:12.289 --> 00:30:15.730 folks that saw faith community as the enemy or 00:30:15.730 --> 00:30:21.190 the one holding things back or sheep. If we could 00:30:21.190 --> 00:30:23.029 just go in, they'll just listen to us and they'll 00:30:23.029 --> 00:30:25.490 do this thing. I found it interesting one time 00:30:25.490 --> 00:30:28.869 when I had a breakfast that I had hosted. interfaith 00:30:28.869 --> 00:30:30.769 breakfast near Labor Day and there were clergy 00:30:30.769 --> 00:30:32.990 and there were also some folks from unions and 00:30:32.990 --> 00:30:35.890 other groups. And I remember a woman that was 00:30:35.890 --> 00:30:37.430 with one of the unions with Jackson Memorial 00:30:37.430 --> 00:30:39.329 Hospital and there were some challenges going 00:30:39.329 --> 00:30:41.809 on in the workplace. And she was very annoyed 00:30:41.809 --> 00:30:45.130 because they had had an event and no clergy had 00:30:45.130 --> 00:30:47.569 come to their event. And my first question was, 00:30:47.650 --> 00:30:51.529 did you invite us? And sometimes there's an assumption. 00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:55.619 That if you have this moral right and this action 00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:57.920 that you're taking, that automatically faith 00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.460 community will step up there and be with you. 00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:03.019 Like any other groups, you have to have a relationship 00:31:03.019 --> 00:31:06.680 and know who we are. And also, if you just want 00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:09.099 to use the presence as opposed to actually having 00:31:09.099 --> 00:31:11.900 a conversation. So I've been in situations where 00:31:11.900 --> 00:31:14.220 they've taken a position and I've been like, 00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.380 I can't take that position. I agree with underlying 00:31:18.380 --> 00:31:20.789 what you're trying to do. But, you know, that 00:31:20.789 --> 00:31:24.170 particular wording, that's not going to appeal 00:31:24.170 --> 00:31:26.450 to me and to certain faith leaders that I know. 00:31:26.670 --> 00:31:28.690 Because oftentimes I was being asked to reach 00:31:28.690 --> 00:31:32.369 out to other faith leaders. So that was not faith 00:31:32.369 --> 00:31:34.190 working with faith. That's usually when someone 00:31:34.190 --> 00:31:36.650 outside is trying to figure out how to work with 00:31:36.650 --> 00:31:39.910 the faith community. That's more where I see 00:31:39.910 --> 00:31:42.690 the problems. It's not so much. I think when 00:31:42.690 --> 00:31:44.210 you have people that deliberately want to work 00:31:44.210 --> 00:31:47.599 together in an interfaith setting. they're there 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:49.579 because they already have an openness to the 00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:51.759 fact that other people... Right, exactly. Now, 00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:56.940 that being said, some folks are not as open to 00:31:56.940 --> 00:32:00.200 less mainstream faith, even within those settings. 00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:02.400 That's a great point as well. I've heard those 00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:04.920 comments. I won't quote, but I know a particular 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.680 rabbi who said something, and I'm like, that's 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:10.140 not helpful. Now, he said it privately to me. 00:32:11.339 --> 00:32:15.480 But, yeah, so I think sometimes, like, some... 00:32:15.929 --> 00:32:18.150 Interfaith communities might not be as open to. 00:32:19.549 --> 00:32:21.809 UU Church is usually okay, but not with everybody. 00:32:22.390 --> 00:32:24.109 And I remember years ago when we were trying 00:32:24.109 --> 00:32:26.170 to do the mission statement for South Florida 00:32:26.170 --> 00:32:28.309 IWJ. And this is before I was executive director. 00:32:28.430 --> 00:32:31.049 I was just on the board. And I remember a clergy 00:32:31.049 --> 00:32:33.849 person from a congregational church that said, 00:32:33.950 --> 00:32:35.349 well, we should put this. And there was something 00:32:35.349 --> 00:32:37.049 about God in there and that everybody will agree 00:32:37.049 --> 00:32:40.430 with this. And I said, not Unitarians. And our 00:32:40.430 --> 00:32:43.460 Unitarian minister. The board member wasn't there 00:32:43.460 --> 00:32:45.339 that day, so I felt like I should mention that. 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.500 And so I think sometimes there's even an assumption 00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:51.180 about faith, that we all think the same and maybe 00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:53.980 not. And, of course, when you start to go into 00:32:53.980 --> 00:32:56.839 Wicca and everything, that's a whole other conversation 00:32:56.839 --> 00:33:00.880 with maybe not as much openness. I will say one 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.579 thing, though. The interfaith clergy, faith leaders, 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.079 and I always tend to also say faith leaders for 00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:10.079 those of us who don't have clergy in our tradition. 00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:15.880 who really are open to other traditions. Like, 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.799 for example, they would like to see more engagement 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:22.519 with non -Abrahamic traditions. And they think 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:24.059 that that's unfortunate that we're not having 00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:30.859 more. So I think that those folks want to have 00:33:30.859 --> 00:33:34.140 that and are open to that. Like I said, more 00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:35.759 of the issues have been when it's come from people 00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:37.079 that want to figure out how to work with the 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:38.940 faith community on their issue. And there's a 00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:42.109 little bit of a lack of understanding. Yeah. 00:33:42.630 --> 00:33:44.589 All right. So we're coming to the end of our 00:33:44.589 --> 00:33:48.430 time, but I want to, I want you to kind of, what 00:33:48.430 --> 00:33:52.250 would your message be to young people that are 00:33:52.250 --> 00:33:56.490 interested in doing interfaith work? What would 00:33:56.490 --> 00:34:02.829 you like to tell them? I think it's funny. I 00:34:02.829 --> 00:34:04.329 should have this answer right away because I 00:34:04.329 --> 00:34:06.430 say things to my students all the time, even 00:34:06.430 --> 00:34:09.789 in the interreligious dialogue class, you know, 00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.699 One thing we talk about in my class as well and 00:34:12.699 --> 00:34:15.460 I is that you had said in the very beginning 00:34:15.460 --> 00:34:17.300 about how the diversity here and there's also 00:34:17.300 --> 00:34:19.500 people that don't have a faith tradition. And 00:34:19.500 --> 00:34:21.440 we talk about that as well. And like, what are 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:23.019 the underlying values? What are the things that 00:34:23.019 --> 00:34:26.360 matter to you? So it's kind of it's not the exact 00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:28.460 same conversation, depending who the young person 00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:30.730 is that you're speaking to. because there are 00:34:30.730 --> 00:34:33.269 folks in my classes, for example, that you'll 00:34:33.269 --> 00:34:34.710 know they have a faith tradition. It'll come 00:34:34.710 --> 00:34:37.210 up. And then there's other folks that don't, 00:34:37.210 --> 00:34:39.829 but we'll talk about what it means to be agnostic 00:34:39.829 --> 00:34:44.489 or what it means to be atheist or even... We'll 00:34:44.489 --> 00:34:46.849 always do the question, can atheists be moral? 00:34:46.969 --> 00:34:49.530 Of course they can. But we have that conversation 00:34:49.530 --> 00:34:52.429 about sometimes people have these ideas. And 00:34:52.429 --> 00:34:54.269 people go to their faith tradition for different 00:34:54.269 --> 00:34:56.670 reasons. Some folks in my classes and my students 00:34:56.670 --> 00:34:58.969 will say, we see it as a guideline, a moral guideline. 00:34:59.389 --> 00:35:02.769 And others, it's a comfort to them. We have all 00:35:02.769 --> 00:35:05.050 these different conversations. But I think if 00:35:05.050 --> 00:35:08.570 anyone... You don't go into interfaith work because 00:35:08.570 --> 00:35:10.150 you want to spread your faith. That's not what 00:35:10.150 --> 00:35:11.829 interfaith work is. It's not personalization. 00:35:11.829 --> 00:35:13.750 Yeah, that's not what that is. And that's a conversation 00:35:13.750 --> 00:35:17.829 we have too. But if you are just truly interested 00:35:17.829 --> 00:35:20.469 on working on things that matter to you in your 00:35:20.469 --> 00:35:22.849 community and you would like to help change in 00:35:22.849 --> 00:35:26.670 your community, I think it's a great way. to 00:35:26.670 --> 00:35:30.610 do that type of work and engage with and you'll 00:35:30.610 --> 00:35:33.769 be surprised how many people actually share some 00:35:33.769 --> 00:35:35.829 of your same ideas even though they may have 00:35:35.829 --> 00:35:37.530 had different backgrounds been raised differently 00:35:37.530 --> 00:35:40.769 but i think it's a fantastic way to kind of live 00:35:40.769 --> 00:35:44.469 your faith and even if you are a person not of 00:35:44.469 --> 00:35:48.349 a traditional faith tradition um i think it's 00:35:48.349 --> 00:35:52.110 a great way to to live your values right so the 00:35:52.110 --> 00:35:58.469 thing about quakers is that um People say we 00:35:58.469 --> 00:35:59.789 practice what we preach, but we don't preach. 00:36:00.010 --> 00:36:02.329 We practice what we practice, right? Because 00:36:02.329 --> 00:36:06.190 we don't have clergy and such. And so I often 00:36:06.190 --> 00:36:08.429 think, and I don't want to get too long for you, 00:36:08.469 --> 00:36:10.869 but I often think our worship, for those who 00:36:10.869 --> 00:36:12.889 don't know, is like silent worship, and you listen 00:36:12.889 --> 00:36:15.389 for the Spirit. And I sometimes have to, and 00:36:15.389 --> 00:36:17.230 if you feel you have a message, you stand, you 00:36:17.230 --> 00:36:19.610 share, you sit back down. No one's supposed to 00:36:19.610 --> 00:36:21.510 respond to you directly because it's not a conversation. 00:36:21.889 --> 00:36:25.829 They can reflect on it. I sometimes... don't 00:36:25.829 --> 00:36:28.210 know if I should stand or not stand because my 00:36:28.210 --> 00:36:30.110 mind moves a thousand miles a minute and I'm 00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:34.230 always thinking about justice type things because 00:36:34.230 --> 00:36:38.150 it's how my mind works and I sometimes think 00:36:38.150 --> 00:36:40.309 is that a message or isn't it but I'm already 00:36:40.309 --> 00:36:43.650 primed to those types of messages because of 00:36:43.650 --> 00:36:46.849 my beliefs you know so it may well be a message 00:36:46.849 --> 00:36:49.130 but it's like a little bit of a determination 00:36:49.130 --> 00:36:52.429 there but I think if you feel moved to make a 00:36:52.429 --> 00:36:57.139 difference in your community I think through 00:36:57.139 --> 00:36:59.400 interfaith work is a fantastic way to do it. 00:36:59.780 --> 00:37:03.300 And even if you don't, I don't want anyone who 00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:05.219 doesn't have a formal tradition to feel they 00:37:05.219 --> 00:37:07.420 can't do that. Because I've had a lot of young 00:37:07.420 --> 00:37:09.980 people who are just trying to live out their 00:37:09.980 --> 00:37:12.000 values. And this is a way that it helps them 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:13.760 do that because of things that they care about 00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:18.119 in their community. I love that. That's perfect. 00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:21.179 I think it's very, very good. Yeah. I think it's 00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:23.460 important for people, for young people also, 00:37:23.539 --> 00:37:27.480 you know, who are trying to come, come up in 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:32.960 a very turbulent world. Yeah. And one that, you 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:35.219 know, it's existing, you know, there's so much 00:37:35.219 --> 00:37:39.670 messaging. on so many different sort of platforms 00:37:39.670 --> 00:37:42.829 and in a very distracted sort of way, you know, 00:37:42.829 --> 00:37:45.389 to think about something that you can do that 00:37:45.389 --> 00:37:47.309 you can, you know, really reflect upon in terms 00:37:47.309 --> 00:37:49.530 of like, what are your values and how do you 00:37:49.530 --> 00:37:51.789 move in through the world and how do you impact 00:37:51.789 --> 00:37:54.670 other people's lives? And, and I think for me, 00:37:54.690 --> 00:37:56.369 the interfaith work, I think is a really good 00:37:56.369 --> 00:38:00.329 way for them to be able to explore this part 00:38:00.329 --> 00:38:04.010 of who they are. I agree. Thank you so much, 00:38:04.010 --> 00:38:05.409 Jeanette. I really appreciate it. This is really 00:38:05.409 --> 00:38:08.750 wonderful. Thank you for coming. Yeah, this is 00:38:08.750 --> 00:38:10.309 a great conversation. Definitely we're going 00:38:10.309 --> 00:38:15.349 to have you on for season two as well. Okay, 00:38:15.389 --> 00:38:17.469 well, thank you very, very much. I could say 00:38:17.469 --> 00:38:18.610 a lot more, but we don't have more time.