WEBVTT 00:00:05.570 --> 00:00:08.910 Pam, thank you so much for coming. My name, of 00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:11.810 course, is Iqbal Akhtar, and this is another 00:00:11.810 --> 00:00:15.470 episode of our podcast on Interfaith Miami, looking 00:00:15.470 --> 00:00:18.250 and connecting to the leaders of the interfaith 00:00:18.250 --> 00:00:22.210 movement here in South Florida. So we are very 00:00:22.210 --> 00:00:25.609 honored to have Pam here with us, and we want 00:00:25.609 --> 00:00:28.250 you to talk to us a little bit about your background 00:00:28.250 --> 00:00:30.820 and your history. Okay, I'd be more than happy 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:32.960 to. Thank you for inviting me to join you for 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.420 this. Of course. So my name is Pamela Lear. I've 00:00:35.420 --> 00:00:37.960 lived in Miami for 13 years now. Moved here from 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.740 Southern California. And I lived in Southern 00:00:40.740 --> 00:00:42.640 California 30 years. Prior to that, I was an 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:44.939 Air Force kid. So I've traveled all over the 00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:46.500 world. I've lived in a whole variety of places, 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:48.979 including six, seven different states and overseas. 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:53.770 Okay. Two different times. And I'd say... In 00:00:53.770 --> 00:00:56.109 regard to the Jewish community, I've always been 00:00:56.109 --> 00:00:57.689 very active. It's always been a large part of 00:00:57.689 --> 00:01:00.270 my identity. However, the first 10 years of my 00:01:00.270 --> 00:01:03.390 life when we lived on Air Force bases, it was 00:01:03.390 --> 00:01:06.310 not really relevant. It wasn't part of my life. 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:08.290 I don't think I even knew I was Jewish, to be 00:01:08.290 --> 00:01:10.890 perfectly honest. Although my family is of Ashkenazi 00:01:10.890 --> 00:01:13.209 background, has been for many, many years, going 00:01:13.209 --> 00:01:15.890 back I think at least as many generations as 00:01:15.890 --> 00:01:17.909 we can count. I'll put it that way. And then 00:01:17.909 --> 00:01:20.469 I moved to Memphis, Tennessee, which a lot of 00:01:20.469 --> 00:01:23.189 people don't know is actually... a fabulous Jewish 00:01:23.189 --> 00:01:26.090 community. It's large, it's active, it's got 00:01:26.090 --> 00:01:28.849 plenty of resources, and it was one of the best 00:01:28.849 --> 00:01:31.329 places I could imagine growing up Jewish. At 00:01:31.329 --> 00:01:34.890 the same time, it was the 1970s, and segregation 00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:38.150 and busing were in full force. So I was in the 00:01:38.150 --> 00:01:40.170 midst of a community that was struggling hugely, 00:01:40.450 --> 00:01:42.870 primarily with the African American community, 00:01:43.189 --> 00:01:46.450 but really with anyone who was not Southern and 00:01:46.450 --> 00:01:49.609 white, to be honest. And there was a significant 00:01:49.609 --> 00:01:52.939 degree of anti -Semitism even back then. in the 00:01:52.939 --> 00:01:55.540 1970s. It's come and gone over the years. So 00:01:55.540 --> 00:01:58.480 my Jewish identity is very important to me, always 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:01.780 has been. But it's also been unique in that I've 00:02:01.780 --> 00:02:03.939 been living in numerous different places over 00:02:03.939 --> 00:02:07.640 the years. So you said that you lived abroad. 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:10.199 Where did you live? So I lived abroad in Japan 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:12.120 with the Air Force when my father was in the 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:15.120 service. And I also lived abroad in Ireland when 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:18.000 my husband got a job over there. My children 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.550 were ages two and six. That must have been interesting. 00:02:20.930 --> 00:02:23.810 So how was that experience, Levine? It was fascinating. 00:02:24.069 --> 00:02:26.289 I'm really grateful that I got to have it. It 00:02:26.289 --> 00:02:29.530 was really insightful into another population, 00:02:29.729 --> 00:02:32.069 I'd say. Now, this was before a lot of immigrants 00:02:32.069 --> 00:02:34.509 had moved to Ireland, which has happened in the 00:02:34.509 --> 00:02:38.009 last 20 years. This was 25 years ago. And what 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:40.969 I saw that was probably most interesting to me... 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:43.740 was the long -lasting effect on the Irish people 00:02:43.740 --> 00:02:46.800 of the British occupation. The British having 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:49.099 been in there during the potato famine, during 00:02:49.099 --> 00:02:53.740 the times of feudal periods, during times when 00:02:53.740 --> 00:02:58.060 they just kept the Irish down. And even then, 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:00.539 at that point, which was, what, 50, 60 years 00:03:00.539 --> 00:03:03.539 later, after Ireland had its independence, at 00:03:03.539 --> 00:03:06.740 least the southern part of Ireland, I still saw 00:03:06.740 --> 00:03:09.680 so much repercussion. from that and so many people 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:12.539 who were having a very difficult time um learning 00:03:12.539 --> 00:03:15.199 how to be independent on their own really to 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:17.300 stand up straight i could literally walk into 00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:19.659 a shop and someone would say oh so you're an 00:03:19.659 --> 00:03:22.919 american how did you know yeah and they would 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:24.400 say well it's the way you walked in you walked 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:26.719 in looked around like you own the place we irish 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:29.099 we don't do that that's very interesting yeah 00:03:29.099 --> 00:03:31.919 yeah i know the the impact of Yeah, the English 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:34.419 colonization, I think it had a huge impact in 00:03:34.419 --> 00:03:36.979 terms of, yeah. It did. It did. And the impact, 00:03:37.099 --> 00:03:39.180 I think, of growing up in the Mid -South, which 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:41.139 is what Memphis, Tennessee is considered. Right. 00:03:41.259 --> 00:03:43.639 It's also called the Bible Belt. Right. Part 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:47.539 of that culture. And having people work in our 00:03:47.539 --> 00:03:51.080 home. My father was a physician, so we had a 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.520 very comfortable life. And having people work 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:59.229 in the home who were never quite like us. Did 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:03.469 people in Memphis know you were Jewish? Yes and 00:04:03.469 --> 00:04:06.550 no. Okay. We were a very active part of the Jewish 00:04:06.550 --> 00:04:08.909 community. We had a huge Jewish community center. 00:04:09.930 --> 00:04:12.069 I did things. I was very fortunate. I went away 00:04:12.069 --> 00:04:13.810 to Jewish camp every summer for eight or nine 00:04:13.810 --> 00:04:16.230 weeks. It was a fabulous experience. Went to 00:04:16.230 --> 00:04:18.029 synagogue a lot. I even was a bat mitzvah at 00:04:18.029 --> 00:04:21.110 the age of 13, which a lot of Jews nowadays don't 00:04:21.110 --> 00:04:24.870 experience, girls at least. At the same time, 00:04:24.889 --> 00:04:27.730 we had to be careful. My mother was a radio broadcaster. 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.819 And she had a talk show on air every afternoon 00:04:30.819 --> 00:04:33.560 for a number of years. And she didn't use my 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:36.579 father's last name when she was on air. Because 00:04:36.579 --> 00:04:39.860 number one, he was a known physician. And number 00:04:39.860 --> 00:04:43.639 two, it was a Jewish name. The name was Rosen, 00:04:43.699 --> 00:04:45.680 R -O -S -E -N. Rosen, okay. Which he had actually 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:48.639 shortened from Rosenzweig. Sure. Which was the 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:51.040 German name his family had been given. His parents 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.100 were still Rosenzweigs. Okay. But he had shortened 00:04:53.100 --> 00:04:55.720 it because, as he said... The nurses can't pronounce 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:58.379 it. No one can spell it. But it was also part 00:04:58.379 --> 00:05:02.399 of assimilating into America. So my mother used 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:05.500 her, actually, first name and middle name, Sherry 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:08.720 Lee, when she was on the radio. And she interviewed 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:12.259 people of all different faiths, colors, backgrounds, 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:14.740 etc. She even interviewed, I forget his name 00:05:14.740 --> 00:05:16.240 at the moment, but the fellow who led the Ku 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:20.319 Klux Klan for years. She interviewed all kinds 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.699 of celebrities. But there were also a lot of, 00:05:22.779 --> 00:05:25.600 she also worked as a journalist. And so she got 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:28.519 to know people in difficult situations who were 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:31.560 being kept down, kept in their place, so to speak, 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.259 because of culture or religion. And I know that 00:05:34.259 --> 00:05:35.899 she fought for some of them and she stood up 00:05:35.899 --> 00:05:38.839 for the rights of various people. And I know 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:40.639 this from newspaper articles because I was a 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.259 teenager and I didn't care. To be honest, I learned 00:05:44.259 --> 00:05:46.519 more about my mother after she passed away than 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:51.930 I really knew when she was alive. So, yeah, I 00:05:51.930 --> 00:05:53.209 mean, it's very interesting because I think, 00:05:53.209 --> 00:05:55.730 like, being in the South, you're kind of, there's 00:05:55.730 --> 00:05:58.250 this point, like, you're both Jewish and also 00:05:58.250 --> 00:06:01.129 seen as white, I think, right? Correct. Always 00:06:01.129 --> 00:06:03.649 felt white. Right. Always felt that way. Yeah. 00:06:04.069 --> 00:06:05.850 And so you're kind of, like, in between these 00:06:05.850 --> 00:06:08.509 sorts of identities. I wasn't impacted directly 00:06:08.509 --> 00:06:11.910 by anti -Semitism. Okay. With a few exceptions. 00:06:12.569 --> 00:06:15.189 Stories for things like I went to a, I did because 00:06:15.189 --> 00:06:18.250 of the busing and all of that. My parents did 00:06:18.250 --> 00:06:20.490 send me to a very small elite private school. 00:06:21.259 --> 00:06:23.100 But we had a lot of different people there, and 00:06:23.100 --> 00:06:24.819 I'll never forget things like people tossing 00:06:24.819 --> 00:06:28.339 out coins on the floor, saying, let's watch the 00:06:28.339 --> 00:06:30.720 Jews go pick up the coins. Because there was 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:32.759 this reputation that the Jewish people were scrambling 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:36.300 for money. I had a job at one point with a boss 00:06:36.300 --> 00:06:39.180 who was a Methodist preacher, I think. But we 00:06:39.180 --> 00:06:40.920 were in a business circumstance. We were on our 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:43.019 way to meet a client. And we're in the car, and 00:06:43.019 --> 00:06:45.160 he's strategizing how to deal with the client. 00:06:45.220 --> 00:06:46.620 And he says, you know, we've got to do them down. 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:52.120 Wow. And I'm pretty forward, so I did say I find 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:54.720 that very offensive, and we need to talk about 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.339 why that kind of language is not okay. So the 00:06:57.339 --> 00:07:01.500 encounters I've had have been difficult, but 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:03.680 they didn't affect me personally in terms of 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:06.959 who I am and what I'm able to be doing. So at 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:11.459 what point did your sense of Jewish identity 00:07:11.459 --> 00:07:14.500 and Jewish consciousness come to the fore? Was 00:07:14.500 --> 00:07:17.199 there an event? in your life that you can say, 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:20.939 okay, well, this is really when, yeah. So when 00:07:20.939 --> 00:07:24.139 we moved to Memphis, Tennessee, my father, again, 00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:27.680 I was 11 years old. My father and mother decided 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:29.519 that it was time to join the Jewish community, 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:31.500 which they'd always been a part of growing up. 00:07:32.740 --> 00:07:35.639 And one year we went to the Yom Kippur service, 00:07:35.740 --> 00:07:38.560 which is the highest holiday of the year. It's 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:40.439 a day when you fast. It's a day when you're... 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:43.439 really asking for forgiveness for all of the 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:44.420 things you've done wrong. Like a day of atonement. 00:07:44.779 --> 00:07:47.060 A day of atonement, exactly. And a day when they 00:07:47.060 --> 00:07:49.319 open the gates or close the gates on whatever 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:51.639 your life will be this next year. So we're sitting 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:53.740 in the synagogue. My father and I went by ourselves 00:07:53.740 --> 00:07:55.920 for some reason. And about midway through the 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:57.699 service, he turns to me and he says, you want 00:07:57.699 --> 00:08:00.800 to get out of here? I've been in Hebrew school. 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.100 I'm learning from my bat mitzvah. I'm 12 or 13 00:08:03.100 --> 00:08:05.519 years old at this point. And I said, well, what 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:06.939 do you mean? He says, let's go. Let's go get 00:08:06.939 --> 00:08:11.360 something to eat. And I'm very... What's the 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:14.819 word? I'm very inculcated at this point in what 00:08:14.819 --> 00:08:16.560 I'm learning in Hebrew school. And my dad's saying, 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.680 let's get out of here. So we got up and left. 00:08:19.819 --> 00:08:22.540 What do you do? And we went over to one of those 00:08:22.540 --> 00:08:24.899 hibachi restaurants. And we ordered shrimp and 00:08:24.899 --> 00:08:28.160 steak and all of these things. Shrimp is not 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:31.100 a Jewish food. It's not kosher. You don't eat 00:08:31.100 --> 00:08:33.639 on Yom Kippur. You don't do all of these things. 00:08:33.899 --> 00:08:36.840 And here my dad is breaking all the rules. And 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:38.460 sending me to Hebrew school at the same time 00:08:38.460 --> 00:08:42.340 to say, You need to learn how to be Jewish. So 00:08:42.340 --> 00:08:45.899 I felt a real disconnect there. And I feel like 00:08:45.899 --> 00:08:47.580 that was a time when I had to make a decision. 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:51.419 Is this really my thing? Is this who I am? Or 00:08:51.419 --> 00:08:54.840 is this not who I am? And I really believe it 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:58.080 was at that age that I decided this matters to 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.600 me. This sense of religion, of spirituality, 00:09:02.019 --> 00:09:07.059 of community, of faith is something that matters 00:09:07.059 --> 00:09:09.350 to me a lot. And it was right at that point I 00:09:09.350 --> 00:09:12.250 made that decision. And my parents continued 00:09:12.250 --> 00:09:14.870 to support me in that decision, but it wasn't 00:09:14.870 --> 00:09:17.110 the way they chose to go. And we see that with 00:09:17.110 --> 00:09:18.730 families. People go this way, people go that 00:09:18.730 --> 00:09:23.250 way. And it is a choice. For me, it was a choice 00:09:23.250 --> 00:09:26.470 to be a part of the Jewish community. Okay. Wow, 00:09:26.590 --> 00:09:31.669 that's amazing. So then you ended up, you also 00:09:31.669 --> 00:09:35.450 got married. Talk to us a little bit from your 00:09:35.450 --> 00:09:37.730 youth and then kind of how your relationship 00:09:37.730 --> 00:09:41.610 to Judaism changed as you got older. Okay. So 00:09:41.610 --> 00:09:44.190 I went off to college in California from Tennessee 00:09:44.190 --> 00:09:48.389 when I was 17. And I met my husband almost immediately. 00:09:48.850 --> 00:09:51.970 My husband is not Jewish. This month we're celebrating 00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:54.970 our 41st anniversary. Wow. Congratulations. Thank 00:09:54.970 --> 00:09:58.190 you. And we have two children. So my husband 00:09:58.190 --> 00:10:00.909 has never really laid claim to a religion that 00:10:00.909 --> 00:10:06.500 he... cares about i'd say and he loves the judaism 00:10:06.500 --> 00:10:08.980 he's never converted i've never asked him to 00:10:08.980 --> 00:10:11.960 i think that's a personal decision um he's never 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:13.740 converted but he's always been supportive we've 00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:16.600 always belonged to a synagogue we've always been 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:19.139 part of the community part of the activities 00:10:19.139 --> 00:10:21.399 he comes to services and knows a few of the prayers 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:25.179 in hebrew now which is very exciting for me And 00:10:25.179 --> 00:10:26.700 he has a lot of friends in the Jewish community 00:10:26.700 --> 00:10:29.639 as well. Interestingly enough, we have two children 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:31.500 who are grown now in their mid -30s, and they're 00:10:31.500 --> 00:10:34.860 both with Jewish partners, which is kind of like 00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:36.779 a dream come true. I'm not sure how that happened, 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:39.919 but I did try to give them a good Jewish education 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:42.980 and to let them know how important it is, to 00:10:42.980 --> 00:10:45.639 me at least, with the hopes that that would carry 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:49.240 on, and it seems to have done so. And that's 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.059 great. And here we are, 41 years, my husband 00:10:51.059 --> 00:10:53.539 is still as supportive as ever when it comes 00:10:53.539 --> 00:10:55.899 to my Judaism. And I do feel like it's a very 00:10:55.899 --> 00:10:58.799 personal choice. If I had married someone Jewish, 00:10:59.059 --> 00:11:00.720 it would have been a different ballgame. I don't 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.059 know how different, though, because I can't do 00:11:02.059 --> 00:11:05.559 that. Yeah, exactly. So what is, as you were 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:08.659 transmitting these values, what did Judaism mean 00:11:08.659 --> 00:11:12.980 to you? Oh, Judaism is my identity, to be honest. 00:11:13.019 --> 00:11:15.419 It's my basic identity and has been ever since 00:11:15.419 --> 00:11:20.169 I was 11, 12 years old. Judaism to me is a sense 00:11:20.169 --> 00:11:25.830 of self. It's a sense of spirituality. It's a 00:11:25.830 --> 00:11:27.950 sense of religion in regards to faith, study, 00:11:28.230 --> 00:11:32.269 learning, being a part of a community that is 00:11:32.269 --> 00:11:35.549 always growing, always learning, and always reaching 00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:37.210 out to try and make this world a better place. 00:11:37.529 --> 00:11:40.129 And I like being a part of that. I find that 00:11:40.129 --> 00:11:42.750 it gives my life purpose and value and meaning. 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:46.009 My relationship to the Jewish community is my... 00:11:46.409 --> 00:11:49.690 Primary focus, in all honesty. I've participated 00:11:49.690 --> 00:11:53.710 in many, many ways and continue to do so. What 00:11:53.710 --> 00:11:56.049 does it mean to be an American? What does it 00:11:56.049 --> 00:11:57.789 mean to be an American? It means to have freedom, 00:11:57.970 --> 00:12:02.330 which I hope will continue. We've often pondered 00:12:02.330 --> 00:12:04.370 the question, am I a Jewish American or am I 00:12:04.370 --> 00:12:07.009 an American Jew? And that's always been an issue 00:12:07.009 --> 00:12:11.409 in my mind because my grandparents were all Jewish 00:12:11.409 --> 00:12:15.620 and they were... more assimilated, but they work 00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:18.240 to be more assimilated, I should say. It's interesting. 00:12:18.340 --> 00:12:20.440 My father passed away recently. He wrote a letter 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:23.080 to us four kids. I'm one of them, the oldest 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:25.480 of four children. And he wrote a letter to us 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.100 and he said, the one regret I have is not understanding 00:12:28.100 --> 00:12:31.480 how difficult it was for my parents, his parents, 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.620 my grandparents in the 1930s as Americans, even 00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:37.159 though they weren't in Europe and they didn't 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:39.539 experience the Holocaust and Nazism and all that, 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:43.240 how difficult it was in the 30s for them. So 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:46.259 he grew up with that, and I believe that that 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:50.720 came through to me in whatever way we have our 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.980 generational, we call it generational trauma, 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:57.779 but our generational messages we pass on. It 00:12:57.779 --> 00:13:02.200 came to me that we are a people who need to exist 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:05.120 and will survive and will go through difficult 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:08.759 times. But to be an American to me means a sense 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:12.460 of freedom, the ability to speak my mind. and 00:13:12.460 --> 00:13:15.480 to belong to the organizations I wish to belong 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.539 to, and more importantly, to interact with the 00:13:18.539 --> 00:13:19.919 people I choose to interact with. That's right. 00:13:20.379 --> 00:13:22.919 Because I choose to interact with more than just 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:24.860 the Jewish community. I think that's where this 00:13:24.860 --> 00:13:26.480 interfaith work comes in. Yeah, it's amazing. 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:28.740 I choose to interact with people of all different 00:13:28.740 --> 00:13:32.840 faiths, nationalities, colors, backgrounds, you 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.399 name it. There's a lot of opportunity out there 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.080 to get to know others. Absolutely. And to learn 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:40.019 and grow, and hopefully together, build a better 00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:45.000 world. Absolutely. That's very interesting because 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.159 I know, so from my understanding, your family 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.740 didn't directly go through the Holocaust, but 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.259 it had a huge impact, I think, for the American 00:13:54.259 --> 00:13:57.500 Jewish community as a whole. Talk to us a little 00:13:57.500 --> 00:13:59.559 bit about that. My family did not go through 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:01.940 the Holocaust directly. All of my grandparents 00:14:01.940 --> 00:14:03.960 came to this country around the turn of the century. 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.500 They were all escaping the pogroms in Russia, 00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:08.539 so they were all escaping for religious reasons. 00:14:09.049 --> 00:14:12.289 and leaving. But they all spoke English. All 00:14:12.289 --> 00:14:14.330 the grandparents I knew spoke perfect English. 00:14:14.470 --> 00:14:15.950 Some of them still knew a little Yiddish, not 00:14:15.950 --> 00:14:22.490 a lot. But I think what happened was after the 00:14:22.490 --> 00:14:24.649 Holocaust, and I've read about this some, there 00:14:24.649 --> 00:14:27.529 was a real deep need amongst the Jewish people 00:14:27.529 --> 00:14:31.710 to teach the children about what happened. So 00:14:31.710 --> 00:14:34.769 I was inundated as a child with Holocaust education. 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:38.230 And I remember going to a conference for BBYO. 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:40.360 the Benebrith Youth Organization, of which I 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:42.879 was a very active part, and even writing a script 00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:45.820 for a story I told that was about being in a 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:49.019 concentration camp, as if I had been there. The 00:14:49.019 --> 00:14:51.399 education was so hard -hitting. I think they 00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:55.259 might have overdone it a little bit. But it was 00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:57.240 very important because we had to learn never 00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:00.500 again. Never again can we let this happen. And 00:15:00.500 --> 00:15:03.740 I think the Holocaust is very deep within... 00:15:03.929 --> 00:15:06.389 within me, as is much of Jewish history. Because 00:15:06.389 --> 00:15:08.389 the Holocaust is probably the worst thing that's 00:15:08.389 --> 00:15:10.950 ever happened, but there's so many other instances 00:15:10.950 --> 00:15:14.250 in history where, unfortunately, the Jewish people 00:15:14.250 --> 00:15:17.389 have been subjugated. There are also times where 00:15:17.389 --> 00:15:20.370 they have subjugated others, and this is a world 00:15:20.370 --> 00:15:23.330 we live in that is just not, humankind is not 00:15:23.330 --> 00:15:26.169 that kind to each other. It's very unfortunate. 00:15:26.909 --> 00:15:31.370 So as an American Jew, or Jewish American, what 00:15:31.370 --> 00:15:35.049 does Israel mean to you then? Israel means an 00:15:35.049 --> 00:15:37.610 opportunity. Okay. I think that's the way I see 00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:42.809 it. Unlike some of my cohort at the synagogue 00:15:42.809 --> 00:15:45.269 in Temple Beth Am, I've only been to Israel once 00:15:45.269 --> 00:15:48.629 in my whole life, and I was 22 years old. And 00:15:48.629 --> 00:15:50.509 I'll be perfectly honest, the reason I went is 00:15:50.509 --> 00:15:54.429 my parents sent me to try and get me to leave 00:15:54.429 --> 00:15:57.549 my non -Jewish boyfriend. That's why they sent 00:15:57.549 --> 00:16:00.769 me. They failed. I came back and married him. 00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:05.129 But it had a tremendous impact on me. Israel 00:16:05.129 --> 00:16:08.590 to me is, they use, they, we use the word promised 00:16:08.590 --> 00:16:11.070 land, Eretz Israel, we use a lot of different 00:16:11.070 --> 00:16:14.950 terminology. To me, it's an opportunity that 00:16:14.950 --> 00:16:20.330 I believe needs to exist in a certain shape and 00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:24.529 form for people to realize that the Jewish people, 00:16:24.629 --> 00:16:27.129 as small as we are, we are teeny tiny, 0 .2 % 00:16:27.129 --> 00:16:31.220 of the population of the world are tiny. We have 00:16:31.220 --> 00:16:34.399 a right to exist and a right to survive. Albeit, 00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:39.759 I hate to think of it being to the detriment 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:43.159 of others. But again, I look at history and I'm 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:46.519 not sure how to do it in a way that everyone's 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:49.039 going to be happy. But Israel is very important 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:51.840 to me, yes. I can't sing Hatikvah, which is the 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.759 national anthem, without crying. I just can't 00:16:54.759 --> 00:17:01.230 even do it. Okay. Yeah. Okay. You said that you 00:17:01.230 --> 00:17:04.210 talked a little bit about you had some experience 00:17:04.210 --> 00:17:06.690 with anti -Semitism when you were growing up. 00:17:07.829 --> 00:17:11.630 How do you see anti -Semitism today in the United 00:17:11.630 --> 00:17:17.109 States? In the United States, I do not experience 00:17:17.109 --> 00:17:21.710 it personally, directly, very often. The last 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:23.349 time I experienced it was when my son, who's 00:17:23.349 --> 00:17:27.069 now in his 30s, was in high school and someone 00:17:27.069 --> 00:17:30.059 drew Nazi swastikas all over his notebook. And 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:32.500 we went to the principal and the principal said, 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:36.039 boys will be boys. What can I tell you? That 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:41.240 was the response we got. Other than that, I hear 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:45.099 a lot. I read a lot. I am aware of a lot. There 00:17:45.099 --> 00:17:46.799 are some things that frighten me when I hear 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:50.519 about them. But honestly, we've created a world. 00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:53.200 We're a little bit in a bubble. I think we're 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:54.559 a little bit in a bubble where we feel very, 00:17:54.619 --> 00:17:59.569 very safe. And I think we as Jewish people. need 00:17:59.569 --> 00:18:01.230 to get out of that bubble more often, and we 00:18:01.230 --> 00:18:03.789 need to be really brutally honest about what 00:18:03.789 --> 00:18:05.430 we see in the world and what we want to make 00:18:05.430 --> 00:18:07.809 happen in the world. And it's very hard for a 00:18:07.809 --> 00:18:10.049 lot of people to be that honest and that blunt. 00:18:10.930 --> 00:18:14.769 But I feel as if we don't have a choice. We are 00:18:14.769 --> 00:18:17.410 human beings. We are normal people like anyone 00:18:17.410 --> 00:18:19.509 else. We may have a slightly different perspective, 00:18:19.529 --> 00:18:22.329 but doesn't everyone have, depending on where 00:18:22.329 --> 00:18:23.750 they grew up, what they learned, how they were 00:18:23.750 --> 00:18:26.509 educated, what they've experienced? We're all 00:18:26.509 --> 00:18:28.450 unique human beings and I wish we could all focus 00:18:28.450 --> 00:18:31.609 more on that fact than the fact that we have 00:18:31.609 --> 00:18:34.549 these different ideas about the world. I'd like 00:18:34.549 --> 00:18:37.069 to think there's one God up there that really 00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:39.569 just wants us to get along and say, come on guys, 00:18:39.630 --> 00:18:41.470 work a little harder, you can do this. So what 00:18:41.470 --> 00:18:43.569 is your vision for the world? I mean, where do 00:18:43.569 --> 00:18:46.910 you see, I mean, what would you like the world 00:18:46.910 --> 00:18:49.450 to look like? What would I like the world to 00:18:49.450 --> 00:18:52.950 look like? Based on history, I am concerned. 00:18:53.789 --> 00:18:55.630 because I don't think we've ever seen a time 00:18:55.630 --> 00:18:58.349 in history where there hasn't been war. I think 00:18:58.349 --> 00:19:02.450 it is apparently human nature to battle with 00:19:02.450 --> 00:19:08.309 each other, to want the power, to profit from, 00:19:08.490 --> 00:19:11.069 to feel comfortable with. I think there's a human 00:19:11.069 --> 00:19:14.089 nature part of us that fears, and I think this 00:19:14.089 --> 00:19:16.789 is what it maybe really is, a human nature part 00:19:16.789 --> 00:19:19.690 of us that fears not having something that we, 00:19:19.789 --> 00:19:22.910 for whatever reason, believe we deserve or we 00:19:22.910 --> 00:19:25.180 own. The way I look at it, we don't really own 00:19:25.180 --> 00:19:28.279 anything. We are here on this earth. We are taking 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:30.359 advantage of what we can while we can. For a 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:32.799 short time. Hopefully taking care of it and treating 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.500 it as just like our lives. This is lent to us 00:19:35.500 --> 00:19:38.700 on a very... Our lives are not even ours in a 00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:42.079 sense. We do what we can with them, but our lives 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:46.259 are short. And once you're gone, you're gone. 00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:48.160 You can leave an influence, but only to some 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.599 degree. Right. And I wish that... We could see 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:55.599 a world where people realize I'm a tiny part 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:58.299 of something very big, very important, and very, 00:19:58.420 --> 00:20:01.319 very beautiful. And I want to just make it more 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:03.799 beautiful. I want to get along. I want to learn 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:07.240 more about each other. I've had a chance to meet 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.140 your little son. He's only a year old now. Many 00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:13.799 times. And I want that little baby to know that 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.980 I'm just another human being who cares about 00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:20.000 him and cares about his welfare as much as anyone 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:23.269 does. Absolutely. I think that's the world we 00:20:23.269 --> 00:20:25.190 need to create is the world where we listen to 00:20:25.190 --> 00:20:27.990 each other, where we learn to dialogue and listen 00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:31.029 in ways that for whatever reason we weren't taught. 00:20:31.549 --> 00:20:33.329 I heard you interviewing someone a little bit 00:20:33.329 --> 00:20:37.170 earlier and asking about, I forget the term you 00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:39.750 used, but the way we treat each other. And I 00:20:39.750 --> 00:20:41.410 remember when I was teaching sixth grade at one 00:20:41.410 --> 00:20:42.849 point, I've had a couple of different careers, 00:20:42.990 --> 00:20:45.410 when I was teaching sixth grade and I realized 00:20:45.410 --> 00:20:47.750 that the kids in my class were just not... really 00:20:47.750 --> 00:20:50.230 being kind to each other. And I remember creating 00:20:50.230 --> 00:20:53.410 these big posters with words on them that had 00:20:53.410 --> 00:20:55.609 to do with our behavior. And I hung them up from 00:20:55.609 --> 00:20:57.990 the ceiling all over the room. And every week 00:20:57.990 --> 00:20:59.730 we talked about a different one. Yeah, that's 00:20:59.730 --> 00:21:03.009 what I'm trying to focus on practically doing 00:21:03.009 --> 00:21:05.049 research and thinking about character and value 00:21:05.049 --> 00:21:07.490 formation. Yeah, and that's really important. 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:09.779 you know, something that we've kind of lost, 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:11.680 I think, in terms of education. We focus on the 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:14.339 technical aspect of, like, science or, you know, 00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:16.680 sort of these terminologies. But if you're not 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:20.279 given these intellectual tools, like humility 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.099 and things like that, then it's very, very difficult 00:21:22.099 --> 00:21:25.000 to create a better society and a better world, 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:26.339 right? And those things start. Kindness, generosity. 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:29.099 Absolutely. You know, just giving each other 00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:31.539 the benefit of the doubt. I think I have a book 00:21:31.539 --> 00:21:33.140 in me. I've been writing it for a couple of years, 00:21:33.140 --> 00:21:35.660 actually. That's good. About giving people the 00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:38.500 benefit of the doubt. Because we are not raised 00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:40.779 to think that way. We are raised to pass judgment. 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:43.660 Very easily, yeah. And that's a shame. That's 00:21:43.660 --> 00:21:46.180 a shame. In Yiddish, we call it a shanda. It's 00:21:46.180 --> 00:21:48.880 a shanda. It's a shame. But it's something we 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:53.099 can fix. And that gives me hope. What does tikkun 00:21:53.099 --> 00:21:57.359 olam mean to you? Tikkun olam is sort of a translation 00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:59.599 of repairing the world. That's what people will 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:01.539 tell you. It really means a little bit more than 00:22:01.539 --> 00:22:04.000 that. Because it comes from a Kabbalistic... 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.059 background, and I don't know if you know much 00:22:07.059 --> 00:22:09.579 about Kabbalah, but Kabbalah is basically a mystical 00:22:09.579 --> 00:22:12.299 Jewish belief that began many, many years ago. 00:22:13.660 --> 00:22:16.299 And it goes relatively deep. It can go very, 00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:21.000 very deep. So Tikkun Olam is the concept of making 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:23.500 the world whole, more than repairing the world. 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:26.940 Kabbalah has a concept of the world initially 00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:29.730 being... I don't know. I forget all the terminology. 00:22:29.910 --> 00:22:31.490 It's been a few years since I studied it. But 00:22:31.490 --> 00:22:34.210 the whole world being something that was shattered 00:22:34.210 --> 00:22:36.890 at one point. And God pulled himself back from 00:22:36.890 --> 00:22:39.910 it. I don't like to say himself. God pulled God's 00:22:39.910 --> 00:22:44.430 self back from it. And there were shards everywhere. 00:22:45.130 --> 00:22:47.369 But he pulled himself back so that people could 00:22:47.369 --> 00:22:52.029 create and to give people an opportunity to build 00:22:52.029 --> 00:22:54.680 back what had been created. He needed to. to 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:56.980 do that in order for people to have an opportunity 00:22:56.980 --> 00:23:00.259 to be human. And our job is to put all those 00:23:00.259 --> 00:23:02.579 pieces back together. That's the Kabbalistic 00:23:02.579 --> 00:23:05.920 idea of what the world, why we're here and what 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.259 we're doing. And Tikkun Olam is not just repairing 00:23:08.259 --> 00:23:11.799 the world, but it's bringing it back to a whole. 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.000 That's what it means to me. That's beautiful. 00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:17.920 Thank you. It's more than just doing good deeds. 00:23:18.700 --> 00:23:20.839 There's a term, mitzvah, we use a lot. A mitzvah 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:23.319 is a good deed. This is not really a good deed. 00:23:23.380 --> 00:23:26.380 A mitzvah is a commandment from the Torah that 00:23:26.380 --> 00:23:28.680 tells us this is what you need to do in order 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:32.460 to make this world whole again. Yeah. So mitzvot 00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:35.799 and tikkun olam and all of those ideas, I think 00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:38.799 they're all about making the world a better place. 00:23:38.859 --> 00:23:41.319 Right, exactly. You know, for all of us, especially 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:43.789 for our children and our grandchildren. Yeah, 00:23:43.789 --> 00:23:48.430 absolutely. Two more questions. One, in terms 00:23:48.430 --> 00:23:50.809 of this Jewish -Muslim dialogue, what are some 00:23:50.809 --> 00:23:54.910 of the things that you are hoping to learn? We're 00:23:54.910 --> 00:23:57.450 really, you know, very happy that you're part 00:23:57.450 --> 00:24:01.009 of it, and you have done so much, I think, in 00:24:01.009 --> 00:24:04.450 terms of, like, you go very deep into the materials 00:24:04.450 --> 00:24:06.630 and the ideas, and you're very, very thorough, 00:24:06.750 --> 00:24:09.710 which I think really, you bring a lot, I think, 00:24:09.730 --> 00:24:13.460 to the discussion. Thank you. Yeah. So what was 00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:16.240 your question again? What more do you hope to 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.980 learn from this Jewish -Muslim dialogue? So much. 00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:21.660 I could never learn enough. I hope to learn more 00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:24.960 about the individual people, more than anything. 00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:27.859 I want to learn who they are, what makes their 00:24:27.859 --> 00:24:32.839 heart tick, what really matters deep down. I 00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:36.839 think, for example, when we talk about the Israel 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:39.339 -Palestine situation, I feel like a lot of us 00:24:39.339 --> 00:24:41.400 are putting out bullet points. We read in the 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:42.839 news, this happened, and this happened, and this 00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:44.359 happened, and this happened. We're referring 00:24:44.359 --> 00:24:48.480 to a specific story of history. Right, exactly. 00:24:48.819 --> 00:24:50.700 And yet there's so much more nuance, and there 00:24:50.700 --> 00:24:53.339 are so many more layers to get into. And I mean, 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:55.160 I have very mixed feelings about a lot of what's 00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:58.660 going on. I love Israel. I am absolutely adamant 00:24:58.660 --> 00:25:01.000 that the Jewish people survive and exist. At 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.059 the same time, there are a lot of layers to this 00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:05.000 because we're all human. Of course, yeah. And 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:08.460 I do see... I feel like I could argue a number 00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:10.680 of different sides of it. So what I hope to gain 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.359 from it, or what I hope will happen, is just 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.740 more humanity, more ability to listen, more ability 00:25:18.740 --> 00:25:22.319 to say, oh, if I knew that you were from here 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:23.960 and you had experienced that and you had gone 00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:27.299 through this, now I see you more as a human being 00:25:27.299 --> 00:25:29.529 rather than someone who's... telling me the history 00:25:29.529 --> 00:25:31.309 all over again because I've heard it all. Right, 00:25:31.390 --> 00:25:34.970 exactly. We know all the bullet points. Exactly. 00:25:35.150 --> 00:25:37.089 I think what's been helpful, I think, and I think 00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:38.910 what we'll try to do also on Friday as well, 00:25:38.930 --> 00:25:41.210 is like talking about that emotional journey, 00:25:41.289 --> 00:25:42.789 I think, which is a really important part of 00:25:42.789 --> 00:25:44.990 that. I like that. To think about, because a 00:25:44.990 --> 00:25:46.650 lot of times what ends up happening is that our 00:25:46.650 --> 00:25:50.049 reaction and the way that we process the world 00:25:50.049 --> 00:25:52.750 tends to be emotional. And then we kind of create 00:25:52.750 --> 00:25:57.230 a logical kind of overlay of it. So I think being 00:25:57.230 --> 00:25:59.730 able to get to sort of the emotional and I think 00:25:59.730 --> 00:26:01.829 something that you talked about, which I think 00:26:01.829 --> 00:26:05.829 was very important, is the Holocaust. I think 00:26:05.829 --> 00:26:07.769 that is something that is in the background of 00:26:07.769 --> 00:26:10.250 this entire discussion and this idea of what 00:26:10.250 --> 00:26:12.690 it means to have a homeland, to have safety. 00:26:13.750 --> 00:26:16.289 And, you know, that's something that's very basic. 00:26:16.329 --> 00:26:18.490 If you don't have that, then you're really not 00:26:18.490 --> 00:26:20.289 able to talk about anything else beyond that, 00:26:20.390 --> 00:26:21.890 you know. And it's part of why I'm so grateful 00:26:21.890 --> 00:26:24.210 to be an American. Yeah. Because I do feel secure. 00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:26.559 Yeah, no, it's very interesting that, you know, 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.299 this background of being, I mean, you can't be 00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:32.099 any more American than being in the military, 00:26:32.259 --> 00:26:35.359 right? So, like, being part of that world and 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:38.259 that culture, and then also having all these 00:26:38.259 --> 00:26:40.200 different layers of identity and then being able 00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:44.460 to see the world through many different perspectives, 00:26:44.660 --> 00:26:47.140 I think is really quite remarkable. It's interesting 00:26:47.140 --> 00:26:48.900 you say that, too, because in my father's letter 00:26:48.900 --> 00:26:51.680 when he passed on just a few months ago, again, 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:53.240 he talked about how much he loved being American. 00:26:53.869 --> 00:26:56.369 It was really important to him. He was in the 00:26:56.369 --> 00:27:00.210 service. My brother was in the Navy life career. 00:27:00.630 --> 00:27:03.190 My father was in the service. I'm sorry, I said 00:27:03.190 --> 00:27:06.390 that already. My brother, my son was in the Marine 00:27:06.390 --> 00:27:08.549 Corps for 10 years, and my husband was in the 00:27:08.549 --> 00:27:11.190 Air Force. So we have four members being in four 00:27:11.190 --> 00:27:12.849 different elements of the service, and I think 00:27:12.849 --> 00:27:16.250 that has influenced me quite a bit. It's a very 00:27:16.250 --> 00:27:18.400 different world than people who've... Never had 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:23.200 family in the military. So how did your dad react 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:26.980 to the creation of the State of Israel? I think 00:27:26.980 --> 00:27:29.240 he was for it initially. He thought it would 00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:30.859 be a good idea, knowing everything that happened 00:27:30.859 --> 00:27:34.359 in Europe. Over time, he became somewhat anti 00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:36.880 -Zionist, to be honest. And by the time he died, 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:39.900 he wanted nothing to do with any of it. He was 00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:42.599 a little bit of a radical, and he tended to speak 00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:44.960 his mind. I don't know where I got that from. 00:27:47.390 --> 00:27:49.970 He became very anti -Zionist. Okay. He felt that 00:27:49.970 --> 00:27:53.630 Israel had gone about becoming a state and establishing 00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:57.170 its, especially with, I won't go into specifics 00:27:57.170 --> 00:27:58.990 right now, but especially with the number of 00:27:58.990 --> 00:28:01.190 things that they'd done, he didn't agree. Okay. 00:28:01.250 --> 00:28:03.849 He didn't agree with what they were doing. He 00:28:03.849 --> 00:28:06.130 was always very Jewish at heart. Right. But he 00:28:06.130 --> 00:28:08.230 was not happy with the way things were going 00:28:08.230 --> 00:28:10.529 there. Right. I mean, that's something that's 00:28:10.529 --> 00:28:14.329 been very remarkable, you know, working with 00:28:14.329 --> 00:28:17.900 Temple Bethlehem, just to see the, range in the 00:28:17.900 --> 00:28:22.299 diversity of perspectives and beliefs, and that 00:28:22.299 --> 00:28:24.440 at the same time everyone is able to come together 00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:27.700 as people of the Jewish faith. Well, if I can 00:28:27.700 --> 00:28:29.359 tell you one thing about Judaism, probably my 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:31.339 favorite thing about Judaism, is that we are 00:28:31.339 --> 00:28:34.279 taught to argue. We are taught to disagree. We 00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:35.980 are not taught that the Torah says this and this 00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:40.200 is what it means. Ever. Ever. We are taught this 00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.799 is what we understand the language to mean, and 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:44.460 you study Biblical Hebrew if you want to get 00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:48.460 a better grasp of that. But what it means, how 00:28:48.460 --> 00:28:49.940 you interpret it, and how you apply it to your 00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:52.779 life today, much less to history, is up to you. 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:55.559 And you are respected for arguing about it. You're 00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:57.799 not told, no, you're wrong, it's this way. You 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.079 are respected for that. And that is one thing 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.700 I appreciate about being Jewish. Probably my 00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:07.420 favorite thing. So the last question, similar 00:29:07.420 --> 00:29:10.920 to what we were telling Joe, but what is the 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.019 message that you want to communicate to future 00:29:13.019 --> 00:29:16.680 generations? Oh, my message to future generations 00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:19.380 is that there's so much to hope for. I think 00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:21.200 we have a lot of reason to be very positive, 00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:24.220 to be very optimistic. I look at the next generation, 00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:26.339 my kids' generation, the millennials, as they 00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:29.980 call them. And they're so smart. They're so capable. 00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:32.119 They're so educated. They have such amazing resources. 00:29:32.660 --> 00:29:36.319 I believe that they will create the world through 00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:38.740 different eyes than we did. And then I look at 00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:40.740 the grandchildren. I have two grandchildren who 00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:42.599 are the most beautiful creatures in the world 00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:47.420 to me, of course. And they only know positivity. 00:29:48.099 --> 00:29:49.759 They're still young enough. They're six and seven 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:51.680 years old. They're still young enough that they 00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:53.880 believe anything's possible. You know, the world 00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:56.299 is a beautiful place. It's a beautiful place 00:29:56.299 --> 00:29:59.539 and that's all there is to it. Absolutely. And 00:29:59.539 --> 00:30:00.980 they're growing up knowing more and more people 00:30:00.980 --> 00:30:04.759 from other backgrounds than we did. And so I 00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:07.960 believe there's a tremendous reason to hope and 00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:12.420 believe that it's a beautiful world we live in. 00:30:12.460 --> 00:30:15.039 We're very fortunate to be here. And I tend to 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:19.220 look more towards gratitude for what we do have 00:30:19.220 --> 00:30:23.660 than being angry. and upset about what we don't 00:30:23.660 --> 00:30:26.039 have. We need to be resilient. We need to be 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:28.099 resilient. Absolutely, yeah. No one's life would 00:30:28.099 --> 00:30:30.440 be easy. Yeah, yeah. I think that humility and 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.440 gratitude are very important concepts, I think. 00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:36.400 Absolutely critical. For not just our ability 00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.680 to... get along with other people but also just 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.940 you know that resilience within the self right 00:30:42.940 --> 00:30:45.339 spiritual resilience and and helping others with 00:30:45.339 --> 00:30:47.000 resilience absolutely you know I have so many 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.440 people sometimes we'll sit down and we'll talk 00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:50.559 and they're so negative and they're so they're 00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:52.400 distraught right I shouldn't say negative they're 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:54.039 distraught about the state of the world hopeless 00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:55.799 yeah I'm like wait a minute let's look at all 00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:57.180 these great things that are happening exactly 00:30:57.180 --> 00:30:59.900 there's a lot and all these good people we know 00:30:59.900 --> 00:31:03.210 right It can't be all bad. Exactly. It's hard, 00:31:03.269 --> 00:31:05.230 you know, it's like they say you do 100 things, 00:31:05.289 --> 00:31:07.470 one of them goes wrong. Right. What do you think 00:31:07.470 --> 00:31:09.309 about the one that went wrong? Right, exactly. 00:31:09.369 --> 00:31:11.150 Wait, there were 99 other things. Exactly correct. 00:31:11.529 --> 00:31:13.130 Absolutely. That's how I look at the world, at 00:31:13.130 --> 00:31:15.470 least. Well, thank you so much, Pam. It's been 00:31:15.470 --> 00:31:18.549 very inspiring. Thank you. This interview and 00:31:18.549 --> 00:31:21.220 especially having you. part of our dialogue group 00:31:21.220 --> 00:31:24.660 at Temple Beth Am. So thank you for your inspirational 00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:26.500 leadership. And I have enjoyed this interview 00:31:26.500 --> 00:31:28.859 very much. Thank you. Great job. Wonderful. Looking 00:31:28.859 --> 00:31:30.000 forward to it. Thank you again.