WEBVTT 00:00:00.010 --> 00:00:04.230 All right, welcome to another episode of the 00:00:04.230 --> 00:00:08.910 Interfaith Podcast, which is a podcast with our 00:00:08.910 --> 00:00:13.210 FIU online courses in Religious Studies and Politics 00:00:13.210 --> 00:00:16.269 and International Relations. I'm your host, Professor 00:00:16.269 --> 00:00:19.429 Iqbal Akhtar, and we're very honored to have 00:00:19.429 --> 00:00:23.820 two... guests who are students in our Jewish 00:00:23.820 --> 00:00:26.739 -Muslim dialogue group. They've been very consistent, 00:00:26.820 --> 00:00:30.059 which has been great to have them come and talk 00:00:30.059 --> 00:00:31.420 to us. They're going to talk to us a little bit 00:00:31.420 --> 00:00:33.939 about who they are, their background, what they're 00:00:33.939 --> 00:00:36.500 studying, and then we'll get into kind of the 00:00:36.500 --> 00:00:39.000 dynamics of sort of interfaith dialogue, especially 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:43.579 among students. So take it away. I'm Sarah Correa. 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:47.590 I'm a sophomore here at FIU. I joined the class 00:00:47.590 --> 00:00:50.609 because I love studying religion, and it's not 00:00:50.609 --> 00:00:52.990 my major, so any class I can take that's related 00:00:52.990 --> 00:00:54.950 to it, I definitely jumped on it, especially 00:00:54.950 --> 00:00:57.590 because it was one credit. I had some professors 00:00:57.590 --> 00:01:00.009 recommend it and got to meet some interesting 00:01:00.009 --> 00:01:02.909 people. Are you in the Honors College too? I 00:01:02.909 --> 00:01:06.689 am. Okay. Hello, my name is Sarah Nosegood. I'm 00:01:06.689 --> 00:01:08.430 from Germany, but originally I'm from Turkey. 00:01:09.500 --> 00:01:12.859 What was the question again? Tell us a little 00:01:12.859 --> 00:01:13.939 bit about yourself. More about myself. Yeah, 00:01:13.939 --> 00:01:18.239 I also participated in the Jewish Muslim Fellowship. 00:01:18.579 --> 00:01:21.579 I'm Muslim. I was born and raised actually as 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:24.159 a Muslim. I was a long time, though I raised 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:26.560 as a Catholic. I went to a Catholic elementary 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:30.260 school, a Catholic kindergarten. Also during 00:01:30.260 --> 00:01:33.680 my high school time, especially my final diploma, 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:36.739 I took Catholic courses. Okay. So I was dealing 00:01:36.739 --> 00:01:39.319 with a lot of, like, Catholicism as religion. 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:42.219 A long time I was still agnostic throughout my 00:01:42.219 --> 00:01:45.620 youth. And more like the last three years, I 00:01:45.620 --> 00:01:47.640 found myself more in my parents' religion. I 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:51.180 deal with it more. And, yeah, I fell in love 00:01:51.180 --> 00:01:54.459 with it and I embraced it. Okay. Well, tell us 00:01:54.459 --> 00:01:56.040 a little bit about your religious background. 00:01:56.810 --> 00:02:00.290 So I'm Christian. Both of my parents are Christian. 00:02:01.329 --> 00:02:05.129 We've become more into our faith since COVID. 00:02:05.370 --> 00:02:07.150 We spent a lot more time together and realized 00:02:07.150 --> 00:02:10.349 that we need to be more grounded in our beliefs. 00:02:12.050 --> 00:02:15.990 But yeah, I'm Protestant. My father's side of 00:02:15.990 --> 00:02:18.030 the family is Catholic. My other side of the 00:02:18.030 --> 00:02:20.349 family is closer to Seventh -day Adventists. 00:02:21.610 --> 00:02:24.669 So kind of in the middle of those ideologies. 00:02:24.870 --> 00:02:27.889 Okay, interesting. And what are you guys studying 00:02:27.889 --> 00:02:30.050 and what do you plan on doing? So I'm studying 00:02:30.050 --> 00:02:32.810 here at College of Economics. I'm thinking of 00:02:32.810 --> 00:02:34.490 doing a double major. What my double major is 00:02:34.490 --> 00:02:36.490 going to be, I don't know. I'm thinking of maybe 00:02:36.490 --> 00:02:38.310 doing something in finance, maybe going into 00:02:38.310 --> 00:02:40.689 computer science. I like also those international 00:02:40.689 --> 00:02:43.870 relations things that we do, or like the science 00:02:43.870 --> 00:02:47.129 stuff. So I'm really still finding myself, so 00:02:47.129 --> 00:02:50.969 what I should do? I think religious studies would 00:02:50.969 --> 00:02:54.650 be great. I would take your courses. Of course. 00:02:55.890 --> 00:02:58.210 Please. I'm doing international relations. I'll 00:02:58.210 --> 00:03:03.030 definitely tell you to do that. So I'm doing 00:03:03.030 --> 00:03:04.930 that through SIPA and then business and government 00:03:04.930 --> 00:03:07.409 leadership through the Adam Smith Center. OK. 00:03:07.550 --> 00:03:09.250 All right. Great. And then you're and you're 00:03:09.250 --> 00:03:11.889 going to D .C. in next semester. Yeah, hopefully 00:03:11.889 --> 00:03:14.870 I'm halfway there. I got into the D .C. campus, 00:03:14.969 --> 00:03:16.629 but I haven't really found an internship yet. 00:03:16.669 --> 00:03:20.629 But I'm back hopefully two weeks. OK, great. 00:03:20.770 --> 00:03:26.699 OK, good. And so what. brought you to the jewish 00:03:26.699 --> 00:03:30.900 muslim dialogue um course so for me it's like 00:03:30.900 --> 00:03:36.099 um as i said i'm very raised in germany I went 00:03:36.099 --> 00:03:39.780 to the high school of Josef Goebbels. I was born 00:03:39.780 --> 00:03:41.939 and raised in Mönchengladbach, which is in Germany. 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.319 And particularly my high school, we call it Gymnasium, 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:47.180 was his Gymnasium. So during the time of the 00:03:47.180 --> 00:03:49.020 Nazi era, it was called also the Josef Goebbels 00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:51.800 Gymnasium because it was his. And our city has, 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:55.080 since it was his home city, had a strong relationship 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:59.460 with the Nazi regime. So especially our city 00:03:59.460 --> 00:04:02.240 is doing and engaging a lot of anti -Semitism 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:06.460 workshops. remembrance culture. So this is how 00:04:06.460 --> 00:04:10.099 I grew up. I was participating, but also volunteering 00:04:10.099 --> 00:04:12.759 in a lot of those kind of events, fostering more 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:16.560 democratization, fighting against radicalization, 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:20.259 extremism, political extremism, but also particularly 00:04:20.259 --> 00:04:25.579 anti -Semitism. I was hosting some of those events 00:04:25.579 --> 00:04:27.779 as well, like working on project management. 00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:30.160 We invited the mayor, for instance, and other 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.680 institutional nonprofit organizations that help 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:36.779 us doing engaging in this. Personally, I see 00:04:36.779 --> 00:04:41.199 myself, as I said, as a Muslim, but... Because 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:44.540 I was more into Wahhabism, much more Islamic 00:04:44.540 --> 00:04:48.519 extremism. I was lost for it inside that. It's 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:51.439 very difficult to notice it. That's why, as you 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:54.600 know, I got out of it. And it's like, I have 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.279 much more mission to like help people to understand 00:04:57.279 --> 00:04:59.939 that this form of radicalization is not good. 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.120 That human beings should live their life as they 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:04.879 want to live it. And that we shouldn't have the 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:08.379 right to judge. interfere in the lives of people 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:11.779 we should help people to yeah as i said like 00:05:11.779 --> 00:05:16.019 leave in peace and harmony and so what um what 00:05:16.019 --> 00:05:19.339 took you out of wahhabism what took me out of 00:05:19.339 --> 00:05:23.389 wahhabism so The thing is that I had a very difficult 00:05:23.389 --> 00:05:25.350 relationship with Islam in the beginning. My 00:05:25.350 --> 00:05:27.709 father was very forceful when it came to religion. 00:05:27.810 --> 00:05:31.589 My mom is a Kemalist, so she has a lot of things 00:05:31.589 --> 00:05:34.649 to do with religion in general. They take it 00:05:34.649 --> 00:05:37.269 much more private and say that liberal, like 00:05:37.269 --> 00:05:39.850 secularist. So they say that you should do it 00:05:39.850 --> 00:05:41.329 when you want to do it, but nobody's going to 00:05:41.329 --> 00:05:43.569 force you to do it. My father is much more conservative, 00:05:43.730 --> 00:05:45.990 so he would force it on you. He would be like, 00:05:46.069 --> 00:05:47.610 when you want to go traveling with me, you need 00:05:47.610 --> 00:05:50.050 to memorize this in this chapter of the Quran. 00:05:50.540 --> 00:05:52.300 be like i'm too lazy to do this i'm not into 00:05:52.300 --> 00:05:54.699 it on the other hand i was also delayed in the 00:05:54.699 --> 00:05:58.540 mosque so i have um for a long time had really 00:05:58.540 --> 00:06:00.959 problems with like self -esteem and self -confidence 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:03.060 and those kind of moments like when i was a child 00:06:03.060 --> 00:06:06.060 it shaped me a lot so i it instilled me like 00:06:06.060 --> 00:06:08.259 an hate against islam so for a long time i didn't 00:06:08.259 --> 00:06:11.279 want to have anything to do with it uh this is 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:15.259 for like a longer time then during covid i see 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:18.439 very similar i found myself much more theism 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:21.100 i engaged much more with the question of god 00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:23.860 and it was i think very important for a lot of 00:06:23.860 --> 00:06:26.459 people during that time and i found myself much 00:06:26.459 --> 00:06:28.959 more into also islamic theology i was studying 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:31.600 it much more and it was mostly all the social 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:35.970 media tiktok and instagram islam which is basically 00:06:35.970 --> 00:06:40.829 extremism prime so there you go embrace and got 00:06:40.829 --> 00:06:44.269 indoctrinated in a sim like in a small way um 00:06:44.269 --> 00:06:47.050 i never noticed it though so i accepted it as 00:06:47.050 --> 00:06:49.470 a true spam and people see arabs as muslims we 00:06:49.470 --> 00:06:53.230 do we should we consider arabs as the good muslims 00:06:53.230 --> 00:06:55.430 or like the perfect example as muslims so you 00:06:55.430 --> 00:06:57.709 would dress like them with red things like them 00:06:57.709 --> 00:07:00.310 you would talk like them and you would be like 00:07:00.310 --> 00:07:03.410 really fully obsessed with like the arabic culture 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.879 The thing is that Saudi Arabia is the prime example 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:09.740 for, as I said, Wahhabism. So I would try to 00:07:09.740 --> 00:07:13.100 be more like them. Until there was a girl she 00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:15.740 wanted to convert and I helped her to get into 00:07:15.740 --> 00:07:19.399 a mosque. But I never knew the imam that was 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:21.959 doing those conversions, etc. So he was calling 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:23.819 me. And meanwhile, I was working in the startup 00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:25.899 tech. And he was like, hey, that's interesting. 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:27.519 Can you help me get in? And I was like, yeah. 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:28.959 And he was like, yeah, imam. And I was like, 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.180 well, you're an imam as well. And we got into 00:07:31.180 --> 00:07:33.360 good conversations. But the vibes were really 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:35.660 chill. He invited me over to his mosques. And 00:07:35.660 --> 00:07:37.279 then he saw that I'm really also intellectual. 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:39.600 I'm really engaging. I try to get into university, 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:42.360 which is a big thing, going to America. Yeah, 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:44.540 of course. For us Germans, it's a big, big thing. 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:50.040 he invited me to his Usul of Fiqh classes so 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:52.500 there I learned that it's much more than just 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:54.379 like taking the Hadith or doing whatever you 00:07:54.379 --> 00:07:56.899 want to do and he helped me a lot also to get 00:07:56.899 --> 00:07:59.980 this like it's like you call it radicalization 00:07:59.980 --> 00:08:03.160 like people associate with like ISIS and like 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:07.100 Taliban and Hamas but it is a much more internalized 00:08:07.100 --> 00:08:09.759 extremism applied on yourself so it's much more 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:12.639 and when I do this I will go to hell when I do 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:14.560 this this is bad I can't touch a woman I can 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.160 look at woman i can't like breathe next to a 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:19.600 woman you know like you're getting like ocd like 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:22.560 wipes and you you try to emancipate you but you 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:25.100 think that a former and during the process like 00:08:25.100 --> 00:08:27.360 trying emancipating you it's like you're doing 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.519 something wrong like blasphemy or whatever uh 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:32.539 but alhamdulillah he helped me really out of 00:08:32.539 --> 00:08:35.460 this he taught me like a better path and since 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:37.460 then he gives me better books and teachings etc 00:08:37.460 --> 00:08:39.860 and then it was my first year so like since now 00:08:39.860 --> 00:08:43.419 like two years has passed already i'm This is 00:08:43.419 --> 00:08:47.460 the route I got off. What about you? What got 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:51.879 you interested in the course and exploring this 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:57.779 type of engagement? I had met a friend, the first 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:00.860 Muslim that I had really become good friends 00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:04.100 with. I never really knew very much about Islam. 00:09:04.539 --> 00:09:08.799 As you said, religion from social media. That's 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.899 all I really saw. And I realized that I just 00:09:12.899 --> 00:09:15.299 didn't know about religion. I've traveled so 00:09:15.299 --> 00:09:18.179 much. I know cultures, I know foods, but I didn't 00:09:18.179 --> 00:09:20.899 know the people's beliefs. So I figured that 00:09:20.899 --> 00:09:27.220 was a really big hole in my knowledge. And yeah, 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:29.240 so I just, I signed up for the Middle East and 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:32.120 Muslim World Certificate as part of that. And 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:34.519 then I saw this class being offered actually 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:35.879 through the Honors College. They sent out an 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:37.820 email about the fellowship. I was like, that's 00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:40.809 awesome. I'm going to do that. Wonderful. And 00:09:40.809 --> 00:09:42.669 I was kind of concerned because I'm Christian 00:09:42.669 --> 00:09:44.409 and I saw it was a Jewish and Muslim dialogue. 00:09:44.590 --> 00:09:45.909 So I was like, maybe I'm just going to be sitting 00:09:45.909 --> 00:09:50.309 in the corner, like quietly listening. But you 00:09:50.309 --> 00:09:52.289 encouraged me to speak as well and sort of like 00:09:52.289 --> 00:09:55.990 share my perspective. And I really enjoyed the 00:09:55.990 --> 00:09:58.250 conversations we had. I learned a lot. So tell 00:09:58.250 --> 00:10:00.529 us some of the stuff that you learned. What kind 00:10:00.529 --> 00:10:03.590 of struck out most to you in terms of like what 00:10:03.590 --> 00:10:07.320 you gained from it? being in the in the conversations 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.720 yeah how much me how much we agreed on things 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.139 okay like i was kind of i thought it was going 00:10:12.139 --> 00:10:14.519 to be a little bit more like head heads butting 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:17.679 yeah um but we agreed on all the fundamental 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:21.559 things like we both did every all three of us 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:24.059 all of our religions deserve to be peacefully 00:10:24.059 --> 00:10:29.139 coexist um we all wanted to find you know commonalities 00:10:29.139 --> 00:10:32.789 among us and really Just have peaceful discussions. 00:10:33.049 --> 00:10:34.350 And that's what everybody was there for. Nobody 00:10:34.350 --> 00:10:37.289 was there for a fight. Nobody was there to prove 00:10:37.289 --> 00:10:39.090 that their religion was the right one. Their 00:10:39.090 --> 00:10:42.710 religion was superior. None of that, which I 00:10:42.710 --> 00:10:44.350 wasn't really expecting. It was sort of the back 00:10:44.350 --> 00:10:47.750 of my mind. I tried to go in there with as much 00:10:47.750 --> 00:10:49.730 of an open mind as possible, but I was really, 00:10:49.789 --> 00:10:53.850 really happy about it. From your perspective, 00:10:53.970 --> 00:10:59.570 what do you think that other students could... 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:03.019 could learn um about a course like this or what 00:11:03.019 --> 00:11:04.600 do you think that we could incorporate into like 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:06.899 other courses where students would what type 00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:08.940 of skills do you think that you could gain from 00:11:08.940 --> 00:11:13.620 a course like this um learning the importance 00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:17.480 of peaceful discussions okay and it's not maybe 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:20.340 it's not just to to reach a conclusion or or 00:11:20.340 --> 00:11:22.799 have everybody agree on one thing but it's just 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:25.580 for the sake of discussion just to have it i 00:11:25.580 --> 00:11:27.059 think it's really important i think it's something 00:11:27.059 --> 00:11:30.899 that's so lost on society now That we view just 00:11:30.899 --> 00:11:34.039 somebody discussing things as you're compromising 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:36.179 your values or what you believe in. In fact, 00:11:36.179 --> 00:11:38.360 it's the opposite. You're affirming what you 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:40.700 believe in and you're sharing it, which I think 00:11:40.700 --> 00:11:43.899 everyone should do. Yeah, absolutely. What about 00:11:43.899 --> 00:11:45.340 you? What is something that you've learned or 00:11:45.340 --> 00:11:47.759 what have you gained from that, from the experience? 00:11:49.620 --> 00:11:51.720 I learned much more about Judaism than I thought. 00:11:52.299 --> 00:11:56.610 It was really interesting. Me too. As I said, 00:11:56.769 --> 00:11:58.789 I studied a lot of Christianity already. And 00:11:58.789 --> 00:12:03.850 my religion is basic. But Judaism, I had always 00:12:03.850 --> 00:12:07.909 the question in my mind, okay, what's the difference 00:12:07.909 --> 00:12:10.389 between Jews and Muslims? Which was really interesting 00:12:10.389 --> 00:12:12.470 because I knew that the thing that sets Muslims 00:12:12.470 --> 00:12:15.330 and Christians apart is especially the Trinity 00:12:15.330 --> 00:12:18.710 and Jesus. But what is the thing that sets us 00:12:18.710 --> 00:12:20.889 apart? I know from a Muslim standpoint, it's 00:12:20.889 --> 00:12:23.230 the question of Muhammad. So is he not a prophet 00:12:23.230 --> 00:12:25.759 or not? But for the Jews, it's like, what is 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:28.059 the problem? So this was really interesting to 00:12:28.059 --> 00:12:31.639 see. What I also learned is that the internal 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:33.580 structure of Judaism is very similar to Islam. 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:36.659 We have the different school of laws. We have 00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:39.879 mysticism, a mystical version of Islam. We have 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:42.580 the Tariqat. They have the similar things. They 00:12:42.580 --> 00:12:44.220 consider them orthodox. We have secular Muslims, 00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:46.500 like Turkish Muslims. They're like, we are Muslim. 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:48.679 We don't have anything to do with it. And then 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:51.779 you have secular Jews. It's basically the same. 00:12:51.899 --> 00:12:54.210 And I was like... crazy they were talking about 00:12:54.210 --> 00:12:56.929 what what we what do you need to do in order 00:12:56.929 --> 00:12:59.309 to get to paradise and he was talking about the 00:12:59.309 --> 00:13:01.789 uh the north laws and i'm like it's the same 00:13:01.789 --> 00:13:05.090 thing we have the same same requirements same 00:13:05.090 --> 00:13:07.389 conditions i was like what's the difference what 00:13:07.389 --> 00:13:09.429 says you apart from me what is making you better 00:13:09.429 --> 00:13:11.850 than me so this was very interesting to learn 00:13:11.850 --> 00:13:14.200 on the other hand something that i would say 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:16.519 about your point is that the thing is that when 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.039 we are like in this very agitated society and 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:21.960 when we're not really engaging in conversations 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:24.860 and discussion with the opposite what happens 00:13:24.860 --> 00:13:27.080 is that i'm installing a picture of this person 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.720 in my mind and like this is what i believe that 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:32.200 is the true case so why i'm thinking this way 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.600 about jews am i like forcing myself to believe 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:36.320 in this and then i'm applying this concept on 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.340 every other person and i'm expecting everybody 00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:40.759 being like that and then you sit with them actually 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:42.279 and you see they're just some human being like 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:43.860 you they have the same problems they have the 00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:45.679 same questions they also have exams they also 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:48.799 have money problems maybe whatever like they 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:50.700 have problems with their girlfriends it's like 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:52.860 you see the problems all the same the solutions 00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:55.820 may be different they go read the bible or read 00:13:55.820 --> 00:14:00.860 the torah whatever right and i met yesterday 00:14:00.860 --> 00:14:03.580 it was really funny i met a turkish jew okay 00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:06.159 which is for me it's like this is what i mean 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:08.559 it's like i just know turkish people being muslims 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:10.299 so when i met them the turkish jew and he was 00:14:10.299 --> 00:14:11.679 starting talking speaking turkish i was like 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:15.440 this this is weird so this was really interesting 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:18.139 and i'm like the concepts that you have of a 00:14:18.139 --> 00:14:20.879 jew they were not applying you know this is like 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.700 so i was i was not getting those vibes i was 00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:26.440 like You know, it's difficult. So those are the 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:29.240 kind of moments in my life when I'm like... It's 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:31.360 like indoctrination. You are out to believe in 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:33.820 a specific way, but it's not true. When you meet 00:14:33.820 --> 00:14:36.039 those people, you definitely realize that this 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:37.759 is not what it is. Actually, it doesn't make 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.759 any sense. It's just a point of ideology, maybe 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:42.820 imagination, a picture that you have created 00:14:42.820 --> 00:14:45.799 in your mind about those people. Very often, 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:49.679 frequently, about hate. Right. But... I don't 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:51.419 know from where it comes from. We had also yesterday 00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:54.059 our final discussion, right? Yes. With John. 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:55.960 Yeah. And I also talked with him about it. I 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:58.460 was like, why do you have people always this 00:14:58.460 --> 00:15:00.320 hostility towards everybody else? It's like, 00:15:00.340 --> 00:15:03.039 I heard it's like an evolutionary thing that 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:05.659 we instantaneously when there's something new, 00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:08.600 we react with fear or with like, you know, with 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:11.659 like concerns and very like doubt. But I'm like, 00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:14.299 why is this always leading us to hate the other 00:15:14.299 --> 00:15:16.700 person? Because when I go in a room and I see 00:15:16.700 --> 00:15:19.480 people, it doesn't matter from where. doesn't 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:21.480 matter which religion or sexuality or even background 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.519 i'm not looking at a person like okay you're 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:26.620 falling into this category i hate you know you're 00:15:26.620 --> 00:15:28.299 falling in this country i love you now this is 00:15:28.299 --> 00:15:30.440 not the way how it should be and how it acts 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:32.220 i sit in a room that could be republican there 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:34.220 could be a democrat i mean try to see the human 00:15:34.220 --> 00:15:36.779 being behind him right and i think this is also 00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:39.019 something my mom always tried to teach me see 00:15:39.019 --> 00:15:40.700 the human being other than the religion because 00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:44.319 you can have in your own religion he said It 00:15:44.319 --> 00:15:46.019 doesn't matter if she's a Muslim or a Christian 00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:48.840 or a Jew, wherever you will go, you will find 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.500 some people that will lie, they will cheat, they 00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:52.360 will deceive, they will do bad things to you, 00:15:52.460 --> 00:15:55.080 they will murder, whatever. She said, don't take, 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:57.360 just because he's a non -Muslim, don't take him 00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:59.399 as your family or don't take him as, no, he's 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:01.279 no better, better him being than him. She said 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:03.759 that anybody could be better. It doesn't matter 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.000 which religion you follow. So I really go by 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.299 this idea. I always say we all bleed red. Yeah, 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:14.899 that's right. Good summary. We talked a bit about 00:16:14.899 --> 00:16:17.899 also the Israel -Palestine conflict as well. 00:16:18.019 --> 00:16:19.759 That was like, I think that came up quite a bit 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:23.539 at that time as well. What is your understanding 00:16:23.539 --> 00:16:25.379 of the conflict and like kind of what's happening 00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:27.759 through the dialogue? Did you get new perspectives 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:31.019 in terms of what's happening? Yeah. Oh, both 00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:34.399 sides are definitely. Okay. Definitely. Because 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.679 I just hear from the Muslim bubble, right? So 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:39.720 I hear the Israeli government is doing this and 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:42.789 the Israeli government is doing that. hmm and 00:16:42.789 --> 00:16:44.370 now you hear them talking about what happened 00:16:44.370 --> 00:16:46.610 to them and they're like realizing that one second 00:16:46.610 --> 00:16:48.750 they're both sides to the same scenario right 00:16:48.750 --> 00:16:52.090 yeah and i think the most shocking story that 00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:54.629 i heard like what happened or like in fiction 00:16:54.629 --> 00:16:58.909 is like when the hamas was on 7th october going 00:16:58.909 --> 00:17:00.870 to this concert right and then like killing 1 00:17:00.870 --> 00:17:03.850 300 people and like shooting them to their genitals 00:17:03.850 --> 00:17:06.630 and recording everything posting and then submitting 00:17:06.630 --> 00:17:10.210 on in the internet and i'm like what you're expecting 00:17:10.210 --> 00:17:13.049 and right as your government to react on this 00:17:13.049 --> 00:17:16.269 one there's no this will won't be chill anymore 00:17:16.269 --> 00:17:19.130 there are like lines to be recrossed and if it 00:17:19.130 --> 00:17:20.829 would be just an attack on military institutions 00:17:20.829 --> 00:17:22.970 whatever it's still not legiminating what happened 00:17:22.970 --> 00:17:26.329 it's still bad but it would be still different 00:17:26.329 --> 00:17:28.069 than rather than just attacking random civilians 00:17:28.069 --> 00:17:30.789 on the street so i think it helped me to see 00:17:30.789 --> 00:17:33.430 that there are both sides to the picture and 00:17:33.430 --> 00:17:35.369 that it is not really black and white that there 00:17:35.369 --> 00:17:38.089 are more things included in this whole situation 00:17:38.089 --> 00:17:43.609 and it helped me also much more to judge it objectively 00:17:43.609 --> 00:17:46.309 rather than being, as I said, a Muslim. It's 00:17:46.309 --> 00:17:48.450 on one side. Exactly. It's not one side anymore. 00:17:48.549 --> 00:17:50.950 I can see both sides. I still see both sides 00:17:50.950 --> 00:17:53.890 false. This would be a big fall on the Palestinian 00:17:53.890 --> 00:17:56.349 side. I could also name plenty on the other side. 00:17:56.470 --> 00:17:59.849 So I always believed in that when it comes to 00:17:59.849 --> 00:18:01.769 an argument and discussion, when there's a fight, 00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:06.549 both did something wrong. So I never really believed 00:18:06.549 --> 00:18:09.930 that even in a war, it could be the truth. I 00:18:09.930 --> 00:18:13.970 see it here, I realize it in that moment as well. 00:18:14.049 --> 00:18:17.869 So it's the same thing. It helped me a lot. What 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:20.190 about you in terms of understanding the conflict? 00:18:20.289 --> 00:18:21.890 Did it give you different perspectives or different 00:18:21.890 --> 00:18:24.529 understanding? Yeah, so as an IR major, I'm used 00:18:24.529 --> 00:18:27.190 to my classes being very factual. This is the 00:18:27.190 --> 00:18:29.430 law, this is the history, this is the circumstances. 00:18:30.349 --> 00:18:31.829 We're not going to give you our opinion, but 00:18:31.829 --> 00:18:34.829 these are all the facts. And then you have students 00:18:34.829 --> 00:18:36.990 that are just emotionally charged about it, and 00:18:36.990 --> 00:18:39.369 we'll try to debate those facts. It's all about 00:18:39.369 --> 00:18:42.230 facts. What I liked in the discussion was about 00:18:42.230 --> 00:18:45.089 how does this make you feel as an Aslan, or as 00:18:45.089 --> 00:18:46.690 a Jew? How did this affect you? Did you have 00:18:46.690 --> 00:18:50.049 family? How has this changed how you feel your 00:18:50.049 --> 00:18:52.549 life in America, especially in Miami, as diverse 00:18:52.549 --> 00:18:54.690 as it is? How has your life changed because of 00:18:54.690 --> 00:18:58.769 this? Even down, like, we talked even how this 00:18:58.769 --> 00:19:00.990 affected domestic politics, how this affected 00:19:00.990 --> 00:19:05.490 Hillel, the protests on campus. I like that we 00:19:05.490 --> 00:19:08.089 brought such an international issue and made 00:19:08.089 --> 00:19:11.130 it about FIU. Right. And, like, about the people 00:19:11.130 --> 00:19:13.650 in the room. I like it as well. John asks those 00:19:13.650 --> 00:19:15.690 questions always, like, how does it make you 00:19:15.690 --> 00:19:17.869 feel, though, right here on campus? It's really 00:19:17.869 --> 00:19:20.089 interesting to learn. Which makes it more of 00:19:20.089 --> 00:19:22.390 a discussion than an argument. Exactly. Which 00:19:22.390 --> 00:19:25.400 I really liked. Like, we were able to... To bond 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:27.680 over the fact that it affected everybody. Right. 00:19:28.779 --> 00:19:32.099 Not just like, I'm right, you're wrong. It was 00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:34.400 like, we both kind of suffered because of this. 00:19:34.579 --> 00:19:37.299 Right, right. Yeah, I was very, I mean, I was 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:39.559 very shocked. I mean, I think one of the good 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:41.619 things about having John as kind of a partner 00:19:41.619 --> 00:19:44.380 in the build up is leading it. I mean, I'm coming 00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:46.279 from more from the teaching side and he's coming 00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:49.799 from the campus, you know, sort of lived experience 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:51.700 and kind of the stories that he was telling in 00:19:51.700 --> 00:19:53.759 terms of like what students are coming to tell 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:57.730 him. And kind of how people feel like, you know. 00:19:57.750 --> 00:20:01.089 I think the saddest part about it all is how 00:20:01.089 --> 00:20:03.410 here in the United States, people didn't feel 00:20:03.410 --> 00:20:07.210 safe. And I think that has been something that 00:20:07.210 --> 00:20:11.230 has been a big change. Because when I was going 00:20:11.230 --> 00:20:17.609 to university, 9 -11 happened. And I was at... 00:20:18.250 --> 00:20:20.410 You know, there's a big number. It's kind of 00:20:20.410 --> 00:20:22.529 a Jewish university. There are a lot of Jewish 00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:25.829 people at the university. And they really made 00:20:25.829 --> 00:20:28.230 sure that we, as Muslim students, felt safe. 00:20:28.849 --> 00:20:30.910 And they made sure that, like, you know, they 00:20:30.910 --> 00:20:33.109 put extra security around where we were staying 00:20:33.109 --> 00:20:34.910 after 9 -11 because there was a lot of hatred 00:20:34.910 --> 00:20:37.269 against Muslims after September 11th. I mean, 00:20:37.289 --> 00:20:39.630 just, it was everywhere, all over the place. 00:20:39.630 --> 00:20:42.460 And, you know, there was a... There were people 00:20:42.460 --> 00:20:45.160 being, you know, targeted and there was a couple 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:46.880 of people got killed because they were Muslim. 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:49.680 Mosques were being shot at. I mean, it was a 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:54.740 kind of a very scary moment. So it was very, 00:20:54.819 --> 00:20:57.200 very sad to hear that the Jewish students were 00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.700 feeling the same way and that they were being 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:01.480 harassed and they were being attacked because 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:05.420 I felt like after September 11th, at least the 00:21:05.420 --> 00:21:07.160 Jewish community kind of really protected Muslim 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:12.059 students. And it was very sad that... in a situation 00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:15.759 like that, you know, I would have liked ideally 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:18.400 that Muslim faculty and students would have been 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.559 able to defend their Jewish sort of, you know, 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.099 sort of compatriots, right? And it was actually 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:28.059 the opposite where Muslim students were harassing 00:21:28.059 --> 00:21:30.380 Jewish students and making them feel unsafe. 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:34.859 So I think that's been very, very hard to see, 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:37.960 I think, yeah. Yeah. And kind of like going off 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:39.799 of that, one of the students from the dialogue 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:42.740 class was saying, um that he's born in this country 00:21:42.740 --> 00:21:47.680 he's um a jew and he said that that after october 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.720 7th people stopped seeing him as an american 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.440 yeah and only as a jew like like i was born here 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.559 too i'm just so disappointed it's it's very very 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.319 sad it's very sad and also sides of the aisle 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:06.329 like treating reducing somebody down to a conflict 00:22:06.329 --> 00:22:08.190 on the other side of the world. Instead of like, 00:22:08.289 --> 00:22:11.710 you're a human. Even more than that, you're my 00:22:11.710 --> 00:22:15.950 fellow American. It's interesting because, how 00:22:15.950 --> 00:22:18.589 can I say it? I come from Germany, so the way 00:22:18.589 --> 00:22:20.670 how I see things is always very different than 00:22:20.670 --> 00:22:24.490 how Americans see it. So for us, we didn't have 00:22:24.490 --> 00:22:26.869 really Billy culture on campus. We didn't really 00:22:26.869 --> 00:22:29.339 have... things where we didn't feel unsafe when 00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:31.359 it comes to the gun problem right those were 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:34.859 not things for us so i could say my opinion and 00:22:34.859 --> 00:22:37.299 i was feeling safe because i knew that the worst 00:22:37.299 --> 00:22:38.660 thing that's going to happen is someone's going 00:22:38.660 --> 00:22:40.559 to stand up and going to punish me for it but 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.960 there will be people my friends myself they can 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:46.039 defend me right so but here it's a bit different 00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:49.309 because The security measurements sometimes are 00:22:49.309 --> 00:22:51.730 not really, how can I say, sophisticated. So 00:22:51.730 --> 00:22:53.670 you don't know if the opposite is correct. Can 00:22:53.670 --> 00:22:56.529 you say whatever you want to say currently at 00:22:56.529 --> 00:22:58.450 the moment? Are you going to do something that 00:22:58.450 --> 00:23:00.329 is going to make this person so upset that they're 00:23:00.329 --> 00:23:02.089 going to take those kind of measurements because 00:23:02.089 --> 00:23:04.809 they are, I don't know, mentally disturbed. So 00:23:04.809 --> 00:23:06.890 those are the things that I see. On the other 00:23:06.890 --> 00:23:09.890 hand, it's like... Being in Germany, we are very 00:23:09.890 --> 00:23:12.029 far away of a lot of things that are happening. 00:23:12.150 --> 00:23:13.769 Like for instance, Israel -Palestinian conflict, 00:23:14.329 --> 00:23:17.170 we're closer to it, but still it's a thing for 00:23:17.170 --> 00:23:20.210 us, but it's still far away. So how we see those 00:23:20.210 --> 00:23:22.599 things is like... We just know them from stories. 00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:24.599 We talk about Nazi, we talk about Hitler, we 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.420 talk about all the things that happened like 00:23:27.420 --> 00:23:29.279 the Shoah. And we're talking about this very 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:31.319 often, but it becomes much more like a story 00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:34.359 rather than reality. And hate against people, 00:23:34.460 --> 00:23:36.039 this is not something that you really see. You 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:37.359 see, of course, on the street, someone who's 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:39.500 just pissed and is like talking to you in a very 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:42.680 derogatory way. But really, racism is not something 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:44.960 you perceive. so when i came here it changed 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:47.539 so for the first time i see this hatred that 00:23:47.539 --> 00:23:49.519 everybody's talking about in real life because 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.539 i was on campus i also told this in the dialogues 00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:54.380 right and then like those uh students came to 00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:56.220 me and they were like making anti -semitic jokes 00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:58.500 and like not even like in a in a way how you 00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:00.859 would do it under people without every anybody 00:24:00.859 --> 00:24:03.099 noticing it and nobody would say anything about 00:24:03.099 --> 00:24:05.619 like no like publicly screaming and like screaming 00:24:05.619 --> 00:24:07.259 nazi powerful and they asked me where i'm from 00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:09.700 i said i'm jerry so they were in a direct into 00:24:09.700 --> 00:24:12.880 this nazi bubble And those are things that are 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:16.319 scary things how they see this hatred being normal 00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:21.920 and being, what can I say? Yeah, normal. So the 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:31.460 hatred things was scary. Yeah. I think for the 00:24:31.460 --> 00:24:36.819 students that are watching, what is it like something 00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:39.759 that you would like to tell other students who 00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.730 are kind of interested in? um sort of peace building 00:24:42.730 --> 00:24:46.630 and sort of uh interfaith dialogue um asking 00:24:46.630 --> 00:24:49.269 questions is the point okay it's like if you 00:24:49.269 --> 00:24:50.970 have a question you have a stereotype in your 00:24:50.970 --> 00:24:53.950 head get it out ask it maybe do some research 00:24:53.950 --> 00:24:57.410 before okay um but that this is a place to sort 00:24:57.410 --> 00:25:01.890 of get over that and realize that that's just 00:25:01.890 --> 00:25:05.309 it's like brain rot it's just brain rot that 00:25:05.309 --> 00:25:09.559 you see online um none of it's true And you can 00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:11.579 only really get over that once you meet face 00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:13.579 to face with that person. You realize like, wow, 00:25:13.660 --> 00:25:16.019 that was totally off base. This person and I 00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:18.339 are actually really similar. You sort of get 00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:20.140 over that. I think it's really important to have 00:25:20.140 --> 00:25:23.640 these kinds of discussions everywhere in religion, 00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:26.599 politics, like we need to start seeing each other 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:28.920 as humans instead of like you mentioned their 00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:31.559 box, their label. Yeah, I mean, I think that's 00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:34.319 part of the reason why we decided to do it this 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:36.359 way. And then also have, you know, have some 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:37.859 food as well, which I think is always helpful. 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:40.900 And then just sit. The reps off. We can all bond 00:25:40.900 --> 00:25:43.559 over falafels. Exactly. Oh, the chickens are 00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:47.240 really good, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, 00:25:47.259 --> 00:25:48.920 just having it in person, I think is a whole 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:50.880 different quality than doing it on Zoom or something 00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:53.490 like that. Absolutely. Definitely. yeah yeah 00:25:53.490 --> 00:25:55.970 what i would say i think it's a bit difficult 00:25:55.970 --> 00:25:57.950 i know students they have not really a lot of 00:25:57.950 --> 00:25:59.710 time engaging in those kind of discussions and 00:25:59.710 --> 00:26:02.049 debates are much more like i like doing it as 00:26:02.049 --> 00:26:04.170 a matter of course exactly i invest my time in 00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:06.650 it and it will be definitely busy the only thing 00:26:06.650 --> 00:26:09.250 i can give to people is especially students is 00:26:09.250 --> 00:26:11.750 that currently they we all become adults right 00:26:11.750 --> 00:26:14.230 we're children teenagers you know we're going 00:26:14.230 --> 00:26:16.910 from this new step exactly known to new world 00:26:16.910 --> 00:26:21.220 let's call it and the problem is that there are 00:26:21.220 --> 00:26:23.279 things that i can do as a child that things that 00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:24.740 i can do in mid school in high school saying 00:26:24.740 --> 00:26:26.660 things maybe like you know having those kind 00:26:26.660 --> 00:26:29.079 of parts which is fine because you're still learning 00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:32.380 right my history professor dr john said you have 00:26:32.380 --> 00:26:36.200 you're developing until you're 37 you take those 00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:38.740 years do your mistakes and do your errors but 00:26:38.740 --> 00:26:41.039 on the other hand like you should also start 00:26:41.609 --> 00:26:43.450 thinking like an animal acting like an animal 00:26:43.450 --> 00:26:46.910 and going onto campus and insulting people and 00:26:46.910 --> 00:26:50.390 screaming kill israel or whatever or i'm going 00:26:50.390 --> 00:26:54.210 on campus very very often i hear often christians 00:26:54.210 --> 00:26:56.329 talking very dictatorial about muslims and doing 00:26:56.329 --> 00:26:58.750 very islamophobic statements and those kind of 00:26:58.750 --> 00:27:00.789 stuff and i'm like why would you do this because 00:27:00.789 --> 00:27:04.170 you might disagree to his ideologies religion 00:27:04.170 --> 00:27:07.170 is whatever he believes in this doesn't empower 00:27:07.170 --> 00:27:10.119 you though to sit there and make joke like derogatory 00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:12.059 jokes in terms of like insulting being racist 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:14.839 you know and for me it's feeling um how can i 00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:18.000 say that i don't feel secure or safe right i 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.599 went to the charlie kirk uh gallery right uh 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:23.940 so charlie kirk was murdered i think it was in 00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:26.980 september the 13th the 12th on the same or the 00:27:26.980 --> 00:27:33.779 next day they did like an uh exactly you really 00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:37.140 oh my god it was so scary so anyways so i went 00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:39.539 there like a friend of mine well i was really 00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:41.339 into like republican things which is pretty good 00:27:41.339 --> 00:27:44.940 okay but uh he asked me if i want to join and 00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:47.160 i was like i'm not really into this i'm you know 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:49.539 he was not really supporting muslims in general 00:27:49.539 --> 00:27:52.680 but i was like at the end still as a human still 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:54.880 i want to set a statement that this was wrong 00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:57.079 that you don't murder people that this is not 00:27:57.079 --> 00:27:59.980 the solution so i said let's go join the praying 00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:02.440 session the ceremony right and sit there and 00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:04.700 make a statement and i was sitting there and 00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:07.700 they were all being very emotional which was 00:28:07.700 --> 00:28:09.480 very interesting on the one hand but they started 00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:11.500 to talk about how this is not a spiritual war 00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:14.759 of christianity against islam and i'm like this 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:17.339 kind of rhetoric i don't like it it's like getting 00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:20.440 very aggressive and agitating and i'm sitting 00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:22.059 there as a muslim and i feel very uncomfortable 00:28:22.059 --> 00:28:24.420 especially because two of my friends are Not 00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:26.440 like me having the privilege of looking very 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:28.940 German. Coming from Arabia or from Pakistan. 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:31.019 And you can see that they're Muslim. They have 00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:34.400 their looks coming on you. And we got in. And 00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:36.140 this is the thing that I as a man and a German 00:28:36.140 --> 00:28:38.220 have done in my mind. They didn't do testing 00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:40.380 at all. They didn't look if we checked. If we 00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:42.240 have guns on us or whatever. So we were sitting 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:44.599 there. All those people being very emotional. 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:46.960 People when they're extremely emotional, they 00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.299 don't know what they're doing. So I was really 00:28:49.299 --> 00:28:51.019 uncomfortable. Next moment I heard that, I left. 00:28:51.299 --> 00:28:53.640 So those are the kind of moments that I... really 00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:56.039 shaping me here on campus they make me feel unsafe 00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.359 as well so i see that there's like an what can 00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:02.420 i say it and thing of ideology is getting currently 00:29:02.420 --> 00:29:04.660 strong like it's university of course you're 00:29:04.660 --> 00:29:06.480 going to be like one day you're communist one 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:09.460 day you i don't know democrat you will you need 00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:11.819 to find yourself but it's currently weaponized 00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:15.619 against other people and i see how a lot of people 00:29:15.619 --> 00:29:18.400 feel unsafe on campus not only jews muslims christians 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:23.539 etc yeah in the next iteration of the dialogue 00:29:23.539 --> 00:29:26.220 group class, what do you think, what are some 00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:27.920 things that you think that we can improve upon 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:29.539 or what do you think we should do differently 00:29:29.539 --> 00:29:33.440 that might make it more effective? It's a good 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.759 question. I think I like the food part a lot. 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:38.700 I like the timing. A lot of people are like, 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:40.920 it's evening. I like the timing. The morning 00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:42.460 thing was even worse for me because I need to 00:29:42.460 --> 00:29:45.279 skip a class. So I think keeping it in the evening 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:50.319 is good. It's not about, I think, the way how 00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.059 it was conducted. Maybe the way how we're recruiting 00:29:52.059 --> 00:29:54.339 more people. Yeah. I think we need more people. 00:29:54.380 --> 00:29:55.920 What do you think we could do to recruit more 00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.420 people? It's a very difficult thing. On the one 00:29:58.420 --> 00:30:01.140 hand, we need to convince people to invest time. 00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:03.440 Invest time, yeah. On the other hand, make it 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:05.720 interesting, right? On the third thing is people 00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:08.819 are discussing and debating and arguing a lot. 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:10.400 And they're like, what should I not take my free 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:13.380 time arguing for? free food but let's go to starbucks 00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:15.559 or yeah so it's going to be a difficult thing 00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:17.779 i think what i wish more of getting more muslims 00:30:17.779 --> 00:30:21.140 inside yeah this would be more um yeah that what 00:30:21.140 --> 00:30:22.799 can i say because initially the first meeting 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:24.200 there was quite a number of muslims and then 00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:26.059 like basically they're all oh but they were my 00:30:26.059 --> 00:30:28.619 friends okay so i forced them before so i was 00:30:28.619 --> 00:30:31.799 like actually committed between james right but 00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:34.819 besides those two jamies and me there was no 00:30:34.819 --> 00:30:38.380 other muslim john again of course you yeah and 00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:41.559 mohammed but i think we need much more also stronger 00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:44.079 presence of the ones who are representing each 00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:46.160 group right so we had for instance a session 00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:48.490 only one june then three Muslims. Exactly. Like 00:30:48.490 --> 00:30:51.190 one session, one Muslim and six or seven Jews. 00:30:51.250 --> 00:30:54.130 Exactly. It's not really helping to pair up. 00:30:54.230 --> 00:30:57.549 Exactly. So it's a difficult thing. I would suggest 00:30:57.549 --> 00:31:00.910 reaching out to all those kind of student buddies, 00:31:01.130 --> 00:31:04.910 right? Like the clubs. Yeah. But I know, I'm 00:31:04.910 --> 00:31:06.750 coming from those clubs, so I know how they think 00:31:06.750 --> 00:31:08.150 about those kind of events. So it's going to 00:31:08.150 --> 00:31:10.829 be difficult. Yeah. What I can maybe suggest 00:31:10.829 --> 00:31:15.460 is still finding any personal contact in those 00:31:15.460 --> 00:31:17.339 kind of groups and trying to convince. There 00:31:17.339 --> 00:31:20.000 will be definitely people. On the other hand, 00:31:20.019 --> 00:31:21.799 as you also discussed yesterday, maybe also making 00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:23.579 outreach outside of all universities. Exactly, 00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:26.539 that's right. Trying to recruit people from different 00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:29.599 campuses, different universities and maybe writing 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.359 them over. Maybe also having guest speakers over. 00:31:33.460 --> 00:31:36.819 People like seeing interesting and famous people. 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:39.599 I actually think the guest speakers might take 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:43.099 away from at least for me like what the club 00:31:43.099 --> 00:31:46.799 was or what the the meetings were most well one 00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.299 of the things we're going to try to do next semester 00:31:48.299 --> 00:31:52.000 is do a movie as well um yeah do like a screening 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.839 of like a palestinian age really movie um and 00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:57.259 so that you can kind of um you know do something 00:31:57.259 --> 00:31:59.380 a little bit different as well and actually have 00:31:59.380 --> 00:32:01.119 the producer come and talk to the students and 00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:04.619 stuff like that yeah maybe you can also talk 00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:08.240 more about maybe faculty right yeah asking them 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:11.660 if they can get this faculty members but I mean 00:32:11.660 --> 00:32:13.740 also that they can help getting it out to students 00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:19.920 we had this one history event about the winter 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:24.279 crew on the first world war and they reached 00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:26.640 out to our professor we invite your whole class 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.519 to come and join and we filled the whole room 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.079 so I think reaching out to faculty and asking 00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:32.720 them if they have like if they are interested 00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:36.190 there will be definitely people that will see 00:32:36.190 --> 00:32:41.710 it as a way to force much more harmony between 00:32:41.710 --> 00:32:45.009 everybody. I agree with what he said, that there 00:32:45.009 --> 00:32:49.069 should be more Muslim representation. I love 00:32:49.069 --> 00:32:51.410 the fact that we agreed on a lot of things, which 00:32:51.410 --> 00:32:54.789 is great, but I think what would make the discussion 00:32:54.789 --> 00:32:57.920 even better is to have people that... That we 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:00.619 just disagree with. Right. Like. Yes. On everything. 00:33:00.779 --> 00:33:03.279 That would make. That would just drive the point. 00:33:03.380 --> 00:33:08.140 Yeah. Not because I'm arguing. The point. The 00:33:08.140 --> 00:33:10.859 point is not to argue. The point is to. Is to 00:33:10.859 --> 00:33:13.119 realize that you're more than what you disagree 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.440 on. Right. And seeing also the perspective of 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:17.319 different Muslims as well. Yeah. We have this 00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:20.329 big, big, big. diverse opinions within Islam 00:33:20.329 --> 00:33:22.470 itself, right? The opinion of Hanafi is going 00:33:22.470 --> 00:33:24.569 to be different from Shia, right? So we want 00:33:24.569 --> 00:33:26.490 to have much more people within those kind of 00:33:26.490 --> 00:33:28.490 conversations from the Muslim group, also trying 00:33:28.490 --> 00:33:31.349 to get much more diversity. For the Jews, for 00:33:31.349 --> 00:33:33.089 instance, we had a secular Jew, we had an Orthodox 00:33:33.089 --> 00:33:35.769 Jew, a conservative Jew, Israeli person, etc. 00:33:36.190 --> 00:33:38.190 So it gave much more different perspectives because 00:33:38.190 --> 00:33:39.789 all of them had different perspectives on the 00:33:39.789 --> 00:33:42.150 same issue, even being in the same group. So 00:33:42.150 --> 00:33:43.609 for the Muslims, it would be also interesting 00:33:43.609 --> 00:33:46.230 to see if we can get, for instance, Mahmoud Mahabi 00:33:46.230 --> 00:33:49.849 inside, or other people. who might also offer 00:33:49.849 --> 00:33:52.609 their kind of discussions. I was feeling the 00:33:52.609 --> 00:33:54.009 whole time in those kind of debates, we were 00:33:54.009 --> 00:33:56.250 like trying to be politically correct and like 00:33:56.250 --> 00:33:58.650 not saying things. I noticed everybody was kind 00:33:58.650 --> 00:34:01.970 of like on their best behavior. Exactly. In Germany, 00:34:01.970 --> 00:34:04.150 you say Sunday face, you know, like Sunday, your 00:34:04.150 --> 00:34:06.529 best behavior you can demonstrate. Do you think 00:34:06.529 --> 00:34:09.409 it got more real towards the end? Yeah. It got, 00:34:09.489 --> 00:34:11.690 definitely. I think everybody said at the end 00:34:11.690 --> 00:34:14.690 of the last class, not the one on Wednesday, 00:34:14.750 --> 00:34:17.289 but the last one I was on in the evening, was 00:34:17.289 --> 00:34:19.570 that we needed people. more people that disagree 00:34:19.570 --> 00:34:22.570 yeah exactly it's like we can we can have the 00:34:22.570 --> 00:34:25.530 we're all agreed yeah we all agreed like like 00:34:25.530 --> 00:34:28.010 we just we just get along too well we all became 00:34:28.010 --> 00:34:29.889 friends like i was in a session i would just 00:34:29.889 --> 00:34:31.650 go with everybody to halal and we would just 00:34:31.650 --> 00:34:33.510 joke around i mean that's the thing i really 00:34:33.510 --> 00:34:36.070 am so happy about that i feel like you guys have 00:34:36.070 --> 00:34:38.090 developed friendship together you know and that's 00:34:38.090 --> 00:34:40.409 a really powerful and important thing it's gonna 00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:44.480 For me, I think the friendships that I had when 00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:46.519 I was in high school and college really had a 00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:49.559 huge impact in terms of me later in life as well. 00:34:49.659 --> 00:34:50.940 So it's wonderful that you're developing these 00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:52.760 networks, and I hope you're able to keep in touch 00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:55.840 with each other as well. And my whole exploration 00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:58.460 of religion just stemmed from a friendship. I 00:34:58.460 --> 00:35:01.219 realized how little I know about religions, even 00:35:01.219 --> 00:35:03.820 my own. He was asking me questions about my own, 00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:06.139 and I was like, I never explored my religion 00:35:06.139 --> 00:35:08.119 from that standpoint. I have no idea how to answer 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:10.900 that. It's true. For me, it was the same thing. 00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:13.139 It was like our friends, my friend group, we 00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:15.000 started to become more religious. And then it 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:16.860 was a thing that was first upon you, but you 00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:19.739 were not feeling it. Everybody was just more 00:35:19.739 --> 00:35:21.659 engaging with it. So you started also engaging. 00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:23.559 And you don't learn anything from an echo chamber. 00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:26.039 Right, exactly. Or from social media. Or from 00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:28.460 social media. Oh, no, definitely. You know, the 00:35:28.460 --> 00:35:30.440 best thing, how we can secure world peace is 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:33.090 delete social media. I think... There would be 00:35:33.090 --> 00:35:36.090 no depression anymore, no hate anymore, no agitation. 00:35:36.489 --> 00:35:38.110 Everybody would live in peace. I was just telling 00:35:38.110 --> 00:35:41.050 him I needed to delete TikTok. Yes, I never installed 00:35:41.050 --> 00:35:43.150 it. I knew it was going to be the biggest mistake. 00:35:44.230 --> 00:35:48.090 You can perceive it even in discussions. I was 00:35:48.090 --> 00:35:50.929 talking with Christians and I took my time to 00:35:50.929 --> 00:35:53.809 study Christianity. So they're expecting with 00:35:53.809 --> 00:35:56.730 me when we have a discussion on things, like 00:35:56.730 --> 00:35:59.829 those kind of TikTok arguments of Muslims. I'm 00:35:59.829 --> 00:36:01.409 not following those arguments because I'm not 00:36:01.409 --> 00:36:03.260 watching them. I'm studying from a different 00:36:03.260 --> 00:36:05.900 perspective, but I sometimes see it on Instagram 00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:07.840 and YouTube. You see it. I'm also using it. I'm 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.760 not reliving behind a rug. So I see how Christians 00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:12.860 are arguing, and then I see Christians coming 00:36:12.860 --> 00:36:14.519 to me in real life arguing the same way. I'm 00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:16.739 like, you never deal with it. You just watch 00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:20.559 it on social media. Anybody talked about it, 00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.539 and I'm like, you know, even when religion is 00:36:23.539 --> 00:36:25.199 something personal, it's not something, how can 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:30.000 I say, commercial, right? There are still also, 00:36:30.099 --> 00:36:31.559 for instance, in Islam, those kind of institutional 00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:34.460 things, ranking things. And we see it as you 00:36:34.460 --> 00:36:38.420 wouldn't go to an engineer to have a question 00:36:38.420 --> 00:36:40.360 which is particularly to a doctor. I would not 00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:41.920 ask him about which medicine I should take. I 00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:44.039 would ask him, can you help me repair my car? 00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:46.420 He's like a mechanic. So you would go to someone 00:36:46.420 --> 00:36:48.840 who knows the studies and a specialist and ask 00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:50.639 him questions about your religion because you 00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:52.119 want to make sure that he knows what he's talking 00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:54.539 about. Because religion at the end is something 00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:57.539 that we take very lightly. And we fall into it 00:36:57.539 --> 00:36:59.539 very blindly. And I think that's why it's so 00:36:59.539 --> 00:37:00.980 dangerous because they can sell you anything. 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:04.280 That's how cold start. Exactly. And you take 00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:06.679 whatever they say as granted because you take 00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:08.099 it a person, you're like, yeah, this person looks 00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:11.260 really like, you know, authentic. When they talk, 00:37:11.420 --> 00:37:13.900 they're talking about the right thing. So you 00:37:13.900 --> 00:37:16.179 take whatever they say and you... this is the 00:37:16.179 --> 00:37:18.639 way you fall into Wahhabism as well you take 00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:20.119 whatever they're saying it's just a random guy 00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:21.880 who also got it from a random guy who got it 00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:23.219 from a random guy and you're like who got it 00:37:23.219 --> 00:37:26.519 from TikTok who got it from TikTok or talking 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.139 to cops or whatever and they're saying that this 00:37:29.139 --> 00:37:30.420 is Islam this is Christianity and you're like 00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:34.579 it's not really so yeah this is the thing so 00:37:34.579 --> 00:37:36.519 i'm getting time to study and learn yeah exactly 00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.300 take the time to study and learn uh get much 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:41.780 more learning how to be respectful understand 00:37:41.780 --> 00:37:44.360 that those are not easy things because i think 00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:46.460 religion is a very personal matter as i said 00:37:46.460 --> 00:37:49.920 but it's something i do embrace right I'm bracing 00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.340 it with everything I have and it's becoming my 00:37:52.340 --> 00:37:54.440 personality. It's becoming my everything, my 00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:57.320 life, my ideology, my heart. So when you attack 00:37:57.320 --> 00:37:59.420 it, it's like an attack against me, against, 00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:02.699 you know, so it installs in me like emotions. 00:38:03.019 --> 00:38:05.440 It's going to create emotions in me and you don't 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:07.079 want that there will be negative, right? I don't 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.260 want to hurt you. So I will sit there and I'm 00:38:09.260 --> 00:38:11.960 going to try in the most respectful way as possible, 00:38:12.219 --> 00:38:15.000 saying things the way I view them, not trying 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.559 to put them into, like not reducing them to absurdity 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:20.989 or trying to. make it insultive like of course 00:38:20.989 --> 00:38:24.070 from a from a muslim standpoint maybe the trinity 00:38:24.070 --> 00:38:26.130 concept might be that you don't understand that 00:38:26.130 --> 00:38:27.909 this is wrong right would be like why you don't 00:38:27.909 --> 00:38:29.550 understand it you make jokes about it the same 00:38:29.550 --> 00:38:31.170 wise person they would be like how can you don't 00:38:31.170 --> 00:38:32.869 understand it so you weren't making jokes about 00:38:32.869 --> 00:38:35.989 it the thing is If I would know you really well, 00:38:36.090 --> 00:38:38.550 like my best friend, I think we can do those 00:38:38.550 --> 00:38:40.389 kind of jokes because I know that your intention 00:38:40.389 --> 00:38:42.570 behind doing those kind of jokes is pure and 00:38:42.570 --> 00:38:45.550 you just do it because we're friends. This is 00:38:45.550 --> 00:38:47.389 what friends nowadays do, insulting each other. 00:38:47.789 --> 00:38:49.829 But when it's like a random stranger on the street, 00:38:49.889 --> 00:38:51.670 pay attention to how you talk because people 00:38:51.670 --> 00:38:53.570 don't know your intention behind it, right? So 00:38:53.570 --> 00:38:56.610 those kind of things. It's already a very agitated 00:38:56.610 --> 00:39:00.190 moment, I think, in our society. And I think 00:39:00.190 --> 00:39:02.929 we don't need much more. idiots talking on the 00:39:02.929 --> 00:39:05.030 streets very loud and derogatory about people 00:39:05.030 --> 00:39:08.869 and harming and insulting and cursing yeah and 00:39:08.869 --> 00:39:11.110 you can kind of like get over that by practicing 00:39:11.110 --> 00:39:14.090 yeah like becoming more respectful through practice 00:39:14.090 --> 00:39:18.309 um like you you really can't do it any other 00:39:18.309 --> 00:39:22.269 way this is the only way to to become a respectful 00:39:22.269 --> 00:39:24.789 debater not even debating just sharing right 00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:28.679 I wrote a paper on cancer culture. This is the 00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:30.199 other argument that I would have to the same 00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:32.599 thing. All the other people need to understand 00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:35.219 how to grow thicker skin. There will be people 00:39:35.219 --> 00:39:37.019 saying things and you should not always take 00:39:37.019 --> 00:39:40.340 it too personal. But like, for instance, there 00:39:40.340 --> 00:39:43.760 was this hate, Christian hate preacher. And nobody 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:45.320 told me that this is something you should not 00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:47.059 engage with. I was like, oh, this is interesting. 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:49.579 A hate preacher? Yeah, the one who was in front 00:39:49.579 --> 00:39:51.760 of GC and screaming, you go to hell. They're 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:54.650 like, are you going to hell? they'll go to me 00:39:54.650 --> 00:39:56.750 they're like you're going down I was like oh 00:39:56.750 --> 00:39:59.030 okay it was really interesting conversation and 00:39:59.030 --> 00:40:01.469 I reparted the video they recorded because I 00:40:01.469 --> 00:40:02.630 didn't know they were recording us they were 00:40:02.630 --> 00:40:04.969 doing like yes they were recording it I didn't 00:40:04.969 --> 00:40:06.610 like it I didn't know that and he was starting 00:40:06.610 --> 00:40:09.070 to insult the prophet and those kind of moments 00:40:09.070 --> 00:40:12.150 it's like I am not reacting very emotionally 00:40:12.150 --> 00:40:13.409 in those kind of moments because it happened 00:40:13.409 --> 00:40:15.769 very often so I'm like okay this is not really 00:40:15.769 --> 00:40:18.590 an argument against me anymore I'm like do it 00:40:18.590 --> 00:40:21.860 but what is the purpose of you doing it yeah 00:40:21.860 --> 00:40:25.139 because the discussion he was i was he was talking 00:40:25.139 --> 00:40:27.579 about very funny maybe also for you we found 00:40:27.579 --> 00:40:29.880 the bones of jesus so this is proving he's god 00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:33.260 and i was trying just to be rational and i was 00:40:33.260 --> 00:40:36.260 like i could find anybody's bones this is not 00:40:36.260 --> 00:40:38.400 going to you know that's not even possible though 00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:43.400 yes the whole point is thanks so we were i was 00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:47.539 like so I was talking to him I tried I was trying 00:40:47.539 --> 00:40:51.059 to talk in the most respectful way I could and 00:40:51.059 --> 00:40:53.719 he as I said people don't see immediately Muslims 00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:56.920 so I was talking to him and then the hijabi would 00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:58.860 come and he was like I am Muslim and I was like 00:40:58.860 --> 00:41:02.280 yeah and then he was like punchline after punchline 00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:05.059 and I'm like there you go I was holding your 00:41:05.059 --> 00:41:07.219 prophet everything which is holy to you and I'm 00:41:07.219 --> 00:41:09.900 like he was trying to state that i was trying 00:41:09.900 --> 00:41:11.800 the same way and i'm like no i'm just trying 00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:13.800 to critically tell you that what you're saying 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:16.360 is from a christian standpoint stupid and from 00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:19.340 my standpoint you know so it's not even what 00:41:19.340 --> 00:41:21.519 you're saying you can believe in it but why are 00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:23.840 you screaming everybody why are you spreading 00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:25.699 so much hate i was saying in the video and i 00:41:25.699 --> 00:41:27.739 was like this doesn't make sense because when 00:41:27.739 --> 00:41:29.599 you're really believing in this this is your 00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:32.369 belief believe in it right i would also not sit 00:41:32.369 --> 00:41:33.789 down with someone who's believing their earth 00:41:33.789 --> 00:41:35.469 is flat and i would try to scream at him i'm 00:41:35.469 --> 00:41:37.489 like leave that the earth is flat i'm not going 00:41:37.489 --> 00:41:39.949 to put you into a bite like geography class in 00:41:39.949 --> 00:41:43.489 physics you should not teach children but this 00:41:43.489 --> 00:41:45.429 is something you can believe it i think this 00:41:45.429 --> 00:41:48.090 is totally up to you i don't like that definitely 00:41:48.090 --> 00:41:50.489 i don't like it after that i just he destroyed 00:41:50.489 --> 00:41:53.389 my mood the whole day because i was like no i 00:41:53.389 --> 00:41:55.429 would that would be me too i mean there's a little 00:41:55.429 --> 00:41:58.989 verse that talks about how you should share your 00:41:58.989 --> 00:42:02.199 belief it's like know in your heart what you 00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:04.139 believe and why you believe it and share it with 00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:06.780 gentleness it should never be like you're wrong 00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:09.320 this is why you're wrong like you're so stupid 00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:11.579 you're an idiot like that exactly yeah first 00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:15.260 of all nobody should be saying that the bones 00:42:15.260 --> 00:42:16.860 thing is kind of funny though i've never the 00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:19.340 bone thing i've never heard of that before we 00:42:19.340 --> 00:42:22.460 don't even need to argue from like a religious 00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:24.719 paper right going into a religion and then arguing 00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:26.880 from there we can also just go into like theism 00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:30.349 what is the point of we not knowing what is not 00:42:30.349 --> 00:42:32.670 the right thing or not right so even when i'm 00:42:32.670 --> 00:42:34.130 a muslim and you're a christian or he's a jew 00:42:34.130 --> 00:42:37.489 you still not know for sure that this is the 00:42:37.489 --> 00:42:40.650 right thing there's still this thing of i'm believing 00:42:40.650 --> 00:42:44.050 it that it's true so i make it myself at the 00:42:44.050 --> 00:42:46.230 end it's still remaining subjective i would claim 00:42:46.230 --> 00:42:48.030 it's objective right to believe in god is objective 00:42:48.030 --> 00:42:51.150 for me but personally individually it remains 00:42:51.150 --> 00:42:53.469 subjective so why are you coming to me and trying 00:42:53.469 --> 00:42:55.889 to And first of all, calling everybody stupid. 00:42:56.250 --> 00:42:58.389 Because at the end, my background is different. 00:42:58.469 --> 00:43:00.610 I raise up differently. I have maybe different 00:43:00.610 --> 00:43:03.210 access to information, et cetera. So what I believe 00:43:03.210 --> 00:43:04.949 may be different to you, even when we're in the 00:43:04.949 --> 00:43:07.050 same religion. I could be a Muslim. You could 00:43:07.050 --> 00:43:08.610 be a Muslim. You could still have the different 00:43:08.610 --> 00:43:10.849 belief than me. You could still disagree on points 00:43:10.849 --> 00:43:12.789 because still your background is going to have 00:43:12.789 --> 00:43:15.650 a huge, huge impact on whatever you believe in 00:43:15.650 --> 00:43:18.849 the moment. Exactly. Well, I wanted to thank 00:43:18.849 --> 00:43:21.210 you both for sticking with me through the entire 00:43:21.210 --> 00:43:25.159 process. It's quite a ride, I think, in terms 00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:29.900 of every session was quite an experience, I think, 00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:31.039 when you're done. It's still going to end, though, 00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:33.599 right? No, we're definitely going to keep going. 00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:36.340 But I really appreciate it. I'm very thankful 00:43:36.340 --> 00:43:38.800 to have you guys as students and to be able to 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:41.300 join me on this journey. So thank you. Thank 00:43:41.300 --> 00:43:41.480 you.