Good morning, Nabila. Happy to meet you. I'm
just introducing everybody that we met. Yes.
So we met Nabila, this wonderful young lady at
Lagos Students Studies Association Conference
July. June, June, actually. It was June. Okay.
So you have a better memory than me. And yes,
I was at the time presenting a paper on Christianity
in africa and i happened to run into a number
of very amazingly talented very wise young muslim
scholars and nabila was one of them and she gave
me an amazing discourse on youth not only muslim
youth but both christian and muslim youth and
the challenges and the issues in terms of stereotypes
and issues in terms of really a bridge building
between the two groups um and just she uh really
kind of uh brought this i this perspective that
i had not been aware of um especially as somebody
who you know i i i've been interacting on the
interfaith side but not as much amongst my own
people most fellow africans so we are two fellow
africans from two different coasts and representing
two different religions but with just a combined
heart and desire for both our faith to grow closer
together so i wanted to just start with saying
just if you could share a little bit about who
you are your background where you grew up and
uh what shaped your world worldview okay um all
right it's actually nice to meet you too mr phillip
Thank you so much. You've been an amazing person
since I've known you since June. So it's been
amazing knowing you. And I'm Nebita Yusuf. That's
my full name, Nebita Yusuf. I'm from the northern
part of Nigeria, north central specifically.
I'm from Kogi State and I'm a young scholar,
23 years old, young scholar, just pursuing my
master's degree right now. But I was born and
bred in Abuja, Nigeria, which is the central
city of Nigeria. And I schooled in northern Nigeria.
That's the core northern part of Nigeria, northwest
Nigeria. I had my university education in northern
Nigeria. That's the core northern part of Nigeria,
Kanu State, Nigeria. As we all know, Nigeria
has six geopolitical zones and we have the north
central, the northwest and the northeast. That's
for the northern part of Nigeria. And I schooled,
I'm from the north central part of Nigeria. That's
my state of origin and my initial background.
But I schooled in the northwest, which we call
the core north part of Nigeria, which is predominantly
a Muslim state. And the north central part of
Nigeria, where I come from and where I grew up,
it's much more not really a core northern part
of Nigeria. And it was not predominantly a Muslim
area. But I've spent almost seven to eight years
right now in the core northern part of Nigeria,
which is predominantly a Muslim state, which
is Kanu State, Nigeria. And growing up in Abuja,
Nigeria, born and bred in Abuja, Nigeria, it
was this... you know, central cosmopolitan area
that accommodated everyone. And there was a mix
of both Muslims and Christians and people who
actually lived their life. It's much more of
an area that thrives economically. You know,
they just want to make ends meet. And I got to
see how Muslims and Christians relate very peacefully,
kind of like segregation or... issues like that.
It was much more of just striving for their daily
lives and trying to get what could actually help
them in life. So Muslims and Christians, they
work hand in hand together to just get their
life going, you know. But when I found myself
in Kanu, state Nigeria, which is the corner and
part of Nigeria, I noticed this is a predominantly
Muslim state. And there is a part of this part
of Nigeria that have Only Christians living in
those parts. That's a fine place, comfortable.
Just one local government in the whole state.
That's in Kano State. It's dominated by Christians.
And in my school, Bayer University, Kano, where
I've been for so many years, we also have Christian
students. So even though Kano State, Nigeria,
is predominantly a Muslim state, it has also
accommodated Christians. A lot. And we have so
many Christian students at Bayer University Kanu.
They have their churches inside the school. They
are not forced to wear hijabs or cover their
hair. Although the only rule is to dress decently.
That is the rule. And you are not to break that
rule. Just make sure you dress decently and appropriately
for an educational environment. That is the rule.
So they are allowed to practice their own faith
in the school. Because this is a federal university,
it is not a Sharia university. It's a federal
university of Nigeria, but it's in Kenya state
and it is still predominantly Muslim students,
Muslim lecturers. You hardly even get to a department
where you find a Christian lecturer because the
state is predominantly Muslim. It is just like
a Sharia state. But I saw that the state also
accommodates Christians. And there is this good
interfaith relationship to some extent in the
educational environment. So when you step out
of the educational environment and the only time
there can be conflict between the people is when
you don't follow the culture or the norms that
you see the people, like the norms that shape
the people's life and the society. For example,
in Abuja, Nigeria, that is not central part of
Nigeria. it's capital city most people there
are coming to hustle and it's not really based
of religion and all so it's what it's more of
like economical just life and all of that so
you don't see religion shaping people's relations
and activities and all of that so you can you're
free to do whatever you want to do but in kind
of state northern Nigeria you if you're coming
in and you are not at that local government area
that I say I was kind of like giving to the Christians
and the immigrants and like whoever is coming
from outside like you can be free to do whatever
you do there for example in abuja anywhere you
can a lady can wear a bomb shots and walk on
around you know one cares actually about that
so mixed both muslims and christians they just
they just know that that person is a christian
and you know they just feel so in dressing don't
really matter there but here a christian person
would not want to walk around kennel states with
specific type of dressing you know both male
and female but the the undeniable fact is that
there are always locals around someone wearing
something that is not used to the locals like
when you wear something like that you could get
this reaction from the typical locals in the
area because they don't they are not used to
that they feel like okay this is immoral this
is not how we do our things here so there may
be cases of the people around, like the locals,
fighting stuff like this when you come out in
the most, in a way that they call inappropriate.
Right. You know? Yeah. But when you find, but
in the same state, like I said, there is a place
given to them that is, we call that place Sabangiri.
Right. That Sabangiri is the whole local government
and it's given to them. And you're free to do
whatever you want there because the locals are
not there and they don't care about you. They
don't really. So it's your place. So if you can
respect their own place, just like when you go
to Qatar or you go to Dubai and you just feel
like you're in a bias just to fit into the environment,
that is how Canada State is. So when you're here,
you try to just fit into the culture and no one
has a problem with you at the end of the day.
So I think Nigeria has a kind of, it's not a
very bad interfaith relation. You know, the only
time the interfaith relation is... bad or what
actually brings about this religious crisis and
religious differences and all of that is the
politicians, you know, the leaders, the politicians,
society, corruption, politics, let's just say
politics, basically. The leaders try to turn
religion, you know, when they want to come for
each other in a way, they use religion as a tool,
knowing that Nigeria is a state. that is not
dominated by one religion, divided into two.
You have the southern part, you have the northern
part. So they can bring in religion to kind of
bring that violence, you know, and they also
try to use religion to, when it comes to voting,
you know, I'm from the north, I want people from
the north to vote for me. If the Christians can't,
they are not your religion and all, you know,
kind of those kind of... Because they know when
everyone is united, they can actually make better
decisions. So they try to ignite violence, religious
violence. So people think that the other religions
are their enemies. So I think when it comes to
interfaith issues, a lot of the time the politicians
play a huge role in those things. Right. I want
to talk a little bit more about how this experience
has shaped what you want to study. And if you
could talk a little bit more for a couple of
minutes about what you want to study, what you
want to look into. What bridges your interest
specifically? Yeah. All right. So someone who
grew up in Abuja, Nigeria, like I gave my background
about growing up in Abuja and spending so many
years in Kano also. My academic interests stemmed
off from like my interest in women. First of
all, my gender. That was where my passion stemmed
off from initially. You know, my being interested
in the women in my area, the women. in my society
and also my experiences, you know, how I have
seen women in Nigerian or let me say African
society from what I have read also, because I've
read lots of works from different scholars. Huseini
Alido, Barbara Cooper, I've seen their works.
I've seen how they've addressed issues that actually
touch on gender. And I see there are some gaps.
Women have to be included in lots of these courses.
So my initial passion stemmed off from knowing
much more about my gender, researching into my
gender and filling some gaps that are there and
also trying to work towards a much more inclusive
community and society. So growing up, my background,
like I said, In Nigeria, in African society,
women, I will not completely say they were sidelined
or something like that, but it's still a struggle
in this part of the world. The women finding
their stance and trying to also own big positions
without being like chastised, using cultural,
religious norms to try to beat it down to some
extent. You know, a woman being limited. Oh,
you should just get married, have children. That's
what you're supposed to do as a lady, as a Muslim
woman. Because that is where you get your respect
in this kind of society I am coming from. And
I believe that is not what a woman is limited
to. And I also have my knowledge about Islam.
And Islam is not limiting anybody or limiting
women to just being in the society. Just being
the full housewife, because even the wife of
the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam,
Khadija, she was an entrepreneur when she got
married to the Prophet. So we've always had the
history of women holding good position or being
business women or just having something to do
right from time. There's no time that women have
been actually limited to being nothing. So we
still have that issue in our society, especially
in the African society here, when you're still...
100 % judged that as a woman, you should just
be at home. You should be married. You should
just take care of the kids and all. And I am
that person who believes that there should be
more to that. And that is why I advocate. I work
with NGOs. I do lots of advocacy. And it has
also made me develop this big interest in researching
more about women in my own society. There have
been lots of women who have been researched about.
out in Nigeria, in Africa. But I feel like in
modern Nigeria here, there are still lots of
things that have not been explored about northern
Nigeria women, especially Muslim women in Nigeria.
So when I mean northern Nigeria, because it's
a predominantly Muslim state. So I mean Muslim
women in Nigeria generally. Lots of things have
not been explored about them. A lot of people
still think they are actually sidelined. There
are still community norms that have sidelined
them to some extent. researching into them knowing
that actually things are not as bad but there
are still things we still have to work on to
be better so i have read lots of works and my
passion is coming from where i am coming from
as a lady as a woman my lived experiences and
the passion to know much more about women in
my society explore research about them and show
that there are some things that are missing they
should be included in some ways and also advocates
and impact the society after like, you know,
making good research about the women. Right.
I love that. Actually, because I know something,
it just reminded me, if you also share a little
bit more about, I know your unique story in terms
of how you launched your business and how you
launched. you know i i we shared so much about
how like you know you know god helped you in
terms of building that and how that gave you
a unique place and some of the difficult experiences
you had uh you know very passionate yeah thank
you so much for bringing that that's part of
me i it's a very sensitive part i'm going to
call it although it's one of my experience that
i appreciate so much and i love so much but it's
a very sensitive part of me I hardly go over
talking about it without tearing up sometimes.
From my background, I didn't come from a family
that is wealthy, that have everything put together
and all of that. So my passion towards academia,
towards impacting my society is strictly passion,
you know. It has been out of passion and all.
And my family, although very loving people, They
would have wanted to do everything for me and
my siblings, actually. I come from that family
who is not meeting me like, you know, for anything.
But they could not support in the way that they
want to because of the financial crisis in the
country and the ones that my family has faced.
So I have been that person who have struggled
all through. My struggle is also one very important
thing that actually exposed me to the struggle.
of women in my society because I have struggled
also. You know, I have gone through lots of financial
issues and emotional issues continuously. You
know, when your finances are not balanced, it
actually challenges you continuously in life.
I have gone through that kind of financial challenge
because my undergraduate days, I had to come
through for myself. I had to put myself through.
My family was supportive. in in the little way
they can they can but you know it was not actually
it did not suffice in any way that would have
actually pushed me forward so i had to come true
for myself i had to do petty works in school
i had to start a business that up to now i still
use it to sort out one little thing or the other
because in nigeria the educational system here
when you're going into it is strictly out of
passion it's not even because of the money you
get right there's no money yeah you know so i
i'm still trying to push that little business,
which is very hectic for me. I combine it with
my master's studies that I'm doing right now,
my master's in history that I'm pursuing right
now. I have been doing this since my undergraduate
days and I have to go to the market, do this,
do that, and I still combine it with academic
work. And I still find time inside of me to know
that, okay, this experience that I'm having doesn't
have to kind of bring me down. I am still very
much passionate about pursuing a career, about
knowing myself and knowing my society and impacting
on them. Because I believe I'm someone who believes
that at the end of the day, it's going to get
brighter. The future is going to get brighter
as far as you're consistent with what you do.
And this is one of the things that have really
inspired me to, because I have a very good background
here in Nigeria. My professors, they have set
a background for academia for me, and I really
do appreciate them. I have good mentors in the
department. One of the things that have drawn
me to the FIU community is because we want a
much more advanced, let me call it advanced,
learning environment, change of environment,
an international kind of set, a global kind of
environment that I get to learn better, to equip
myself with much more knowledge to conduct this
research that I want to do. Because at the end
of the day, I wouldn't want to be limited to
my own environment. I need the whole educational,
or should I say, capacity to go on that research,
on the research I would want to conduct. And
that is why I would need every support I can
get at this point in my life. Because it's all
coming out of passion. No parent is kind of forcing
me or nobody. especially towards anything. I
am the one who have seen my society and I have
said, oh, I actually want to impact my society
and I want to know more about them. And even
with the struggles I go through and the pain
I go through in private, because it's never easy,
all the things I go through and try to just cater
for myself and have full responsibility for myself.
So even with all of that, being passionate about
still looking for the opportunity, better opportunities
to learn. And to be able to impact my society
in the way that I have imagined is still a very
big part of me. And that is why I always, right
now, I kind of always talk about how I need my
support. The support from everyone I can get
right now. Emotional, mental, financial support
especially. Because I can't do it alone. You
know, the little I do cannot actually take me.
Yeah. I wanted to just share a little bit the
story that you told me that really, really touched
my heart was because then I would love if you
kind of gave a little excerpt before I go like
your business and you, you know, you have you,
I think you wear a lot of them very well. And
I do. And what was wonderful is that you talked
about just starting out from the beginning, from
just a little that you had going door to door,
meeting rejection after rejection after rejection,
and just continue just to pray through it and
just not giving up. you've never asked anybody
for anything you've taken like even the the technology
that you have the phone you have you've built
a social media platform that has a lot of followers
you used your you know that your fashion sense
and your interaction to reframe the idea of um
uh, feminism, I think within the Muslim context,
uh, you know, where you're not, uh, uh, uh, the
fashion and feminism meet in such a wonderful
way to exemplify your voice. Um, yeah. So I,
I can't say enough about how amazing those stories
that you've shared are. Um, so yeah, I'm glad
you actually remember every detail of it. So
it's like you absolutely remembered everything
I shared with you about, you know, when I started,
I was saying, oh, this is such a sensitive topic
that when I tried to talk about it, you know,
I always not want to, don't feel like going deep
at the end of the day because of how it makes
me feel. But you've said it all to some extent.
My business from the beginning started from scratch.
I had to. come off start with buying like dozens
just a dozen just 12 piece going room to room
in the hotel facing rejections from people people
talk to me in the worst kind of manner you know
just like kind of shush me away some were not
kind because i can't categorize everyone to be
the same but some were nice but majority had
this demeaning character you know they just shush
She tried to demoralize me, but I am the strongest
person I know. Like I've always said, I was strong
in all of it. I continue to push because at the
end of the day, I feel like I am not going to
settle for a way of life that I am not proud
of. I am a practicing Muslim woman and I am not
going to start a kind of lifestyle just because.
I cannot cope with how people are accepting the
little hustle I am trying to use to push myself.
So I live my life in the way of Allah, how Allah
has ordained. I'm a very practicing Muslim. And
there are ways I have seen people live their
life, which I cannot do. And I also don't go
around begging because I feel like when you bring
down yourself to beg people continuously, it
only makes them to match you because most of
the time they can't even help, you know, a lot
of the time. I'm not a proud person. I can ask
for help from people who I actually see are good
people and can impact my life. But I don't go
around begging or even accepting favors from
random people that may now feel like I owe them
something in return. Especially being a very
young lady at my age then, or even at my age
now because I'm still 23 years old, there are
men around who throw things at me, at my face.
want to do this for me, want to do that for me.
But as a disciplined person, I would never accept
such things because it always comes with a price.
I believe that no one is coming to just throw
things at you for absolutely no reason. And when
you go on and you facilitate that kind of relationship,
it doesn't turn against you later on. So I always
hold myself in this kind of high pride and go
through the whole process. I went step by step
by step and I got to the stage where my business
is at right now that it is not still a big business.
It is not a big business. I've not gotten to
where I would want, I've wanted to be in business
because I didn't plan to become a businesswoman,
like a full -time businesswoman, anybody like
that. My passion is for academia, you understand,
but because of the life situations, I have to
find my passion in business also. I had to start
from somewhere and I have tried to build towards
somewhere and have this little customer base
that are still, that are actually loyal to me
to some extent. And those are the things that
actually helped me to have my life together to
some extent right now. To just be able to survive.
Yeah. You know? So even though I don't have the
proper capital up till now to establish and put
things in order, but I have been able to get
to that stage where at least I can survive, you
know, with what I have. So I've gone through
a lot as a person. I have been treated in some
ways. I have been tempted as a girl because we
have men all around, the big ones with the cars.
I know I have a pretty face. I actually have
the attention coming all the time, but the discipline
there to actually stick to my own passion and
work with what I believe with the hope that God
would actually make the way at the end of the
day. You know, that has actually kept me going,
you know. So it has actually really, really shaped
how I've lived my life and how I actually continue.
I've continued, I'll continue, I mean, to live
my life. And when it comes to the women in the
society, you know, these struggles and all, it
actually also affects, when we take it back to
interfaith relationship, you know, people like
me, they struggle a lot. they find themselves
in some kind of situations whereby, like I said,
like the youth. Yeah. When they go through things
like this, they try to hold the anger on the
people around them. They get convinced, they
get used by people around them to ignite religious
violence, like on history, dramatic issues, you
know? Right. So these struggles of a young person
like mine has actually impacted how people, some
kind of... people have this religious relation
but i am excluded from that because i grew up
with christians i grew up in north central nigeria
i have related with them and there is no way
i'm going to just wake up one morning and start
having problem with christians or be convinced
by somebody a politician or someone who just
wants to push an agenda to have something against
the religion Since you brought that up, actually
a great place to go into, you know, we've talked
a lot about youth, especially in faith. And I
think something you helped me understand that
I had not understand is the kind of the state
of both the different states of Islamic youth
and Christian youth in terms of how they're perceiving
their faith and how you see it from a young person's
perspective. Just how faith is being used. And
I think you spoke a lot from the difference between
what's happening in the South and what's happening
in the North from what you perceive. Obviously,
I know it's a sensitive topic, but to the most
as you can talk about it, because it goes kind
of contrary to what we perceive in the West as
how Christianity is taking over. Christianity
and Islam are both taking over Africa. It seems
like there's kind of some nuances based off of
what you had told me and what I'd seen. Just
kind of the experiences that are changing amongst
youth. Because I know, especially amongst Christian
youth, there's a lot of people who are being
affected by social media and how they're kind
of pulling away from the faith. And I think this
is both on the Christian and Muslim side, in
the South especially. And I kind of wanted to
speak about that from what you've experienced
as a young person. As a youth in Nigeria, I think
the technology has actually affected, or should
I say it's playing a huge role, co -influence
on how youths accept or practice their religion
nowadays. It's easy for agendas to go, like someone
who wants to spread an agenda or a particular
type of agenda to go very, very viral. I got
to, you know, I know over the years I just...
kind of notice that human beings are very easy
to influence. And, you know, you can change their
mind. You can influence them in ways that you
didn't even know, just with a word. And the technology
advancement, technological advancement lately
in life has actually created this avenue for
people, for information to reach people and all
of that. Before technological advancement and
all, when it comes to youths, relations and how
you'd practice religion in this part of the world
in Nigeria it was much more traditional if you
remember how I explained it from the households
it's just about your household how strict were
they with religion you know how how do they practice
it how was it deep in them and that I think it
was just like a continuous thing If your household
was that place where religion was strict and
they practiced fully and with so much dedication
and all of that, you see that household, that
the children that come out from there, that is
how they also live their lives. Also, community
plays a role. Like I explained earlier, places
like Abuja, Nigeria, where there is this interfaith
relation that without any problem, people are
just there to thrive, get their money or just
try to put their life together. they may not
be they may not practice religion like strictly
like those people in the corner that's for the
Muslims you know for the Christians also they
may not be as strict as those at the core eastern
part of Nigeria they will have the Yoruba people
those people at the southwestern part of Nigeria
who they have always been mixed up they have
Christians they have Muslims they just they just
practice it together in the northern part of
Nigeria I'm sorry southwest part of Nigeria you
see A family celebrating Christmas and Salah,
that's how they live there. Right. It's their
way of life. But when it comes to the core, north,
like I said, they are predominantly Muslims.
So it's Islam there. And in the eastern part
of Nigeria, it's just Christianity there. In
the central part, or like the rural part of Nigeria,
it's mixed up. There is no issue. When we bring
it to the modern days now, and this Gen Z...
There's advancements, lots of liberal movements.
You can do this, you can do that. You should
be on your own, blah, blah, blah. All those kinds
of talks and ideologies that are going around
now. Undeniably, it affects Nigeria too, a lot.
When it comes to the north central part of Nigeria,
the Abuja and the Yoruba state and all, you see
youths saying they want to be atheists. at all
because they feel like, oh, the world is advancing.
It's now more of technological advancement. Religion
is a scam. Religion was to deceive and all of
that. That religion was just an agenda of the
white man. And in this part of the country, especially
in Nigeria or in Africa, this agenda that has
been trying to take them out of religion is this
thing that they talk about. Religion is just
a scam of the white man. When it comes from you,
that's for Christianity. And for Islam, they
say... The scum of the Arabians, they just wanted
to colonize you, you know, in their own way.
It's not real. You're just anybody who is religious,
still stupid. Those agendas are so strong right
now. Even in all social media platforms, we see
people posting about it and all. And it is affecting
the youths, honestly. It is, especially in the
north -central part of Nigeria, where there was
no strict following of the religion before. You
know, in places like Abuja, Lagos, then the southwest.
The Yoruba people, a lot of them are falling
for it too. You know, this ideology of it, we
don't have to follow it strictly. And the reason
it's happening, from my own perspective, is that
because religion was not really so strict in
those areas before. It was so mixed up. Because
when it comes to the northern part of Nigeria
here, like I said, the initial time we discussed,
they are not losing their religion here. You
know, they are not. they are not losing it even
with the Gen Z, even with the technology, even
with the whole liberal movements and all of that.
They are not losing it here at all because they've
always had it in them. They follow it strictly
and even with the technological advancement and
all of that, they are trying their best to still
stick to practicing their religion. You know?
It's just that at the end of the day, the only
little limitation there is that sometimes with...
the progression in life you have to adapt to
trends but that trend is not you living religion
is you adapting to technological trends in the
proper way not throwing away the religion and
the morals you know so i think that is the only
place where the not is maybe not blanking in
fully like you're not really aware that there
is they're actually new technological trends
new approaches to life how to go about life you
know to advance yourself Same way, and I will
bring it back to me as a woman, that is why here
it's still strict on, oh, you are supposed to
get married as a lady, you're supposed to do
this as a lady and all of that. So even as youths,
they've not really even accepted that. That's
why it's still easy to judge youths from this
place. You know, but in the central part of Nigeria,
it's getting more flexible and flexible. And
it would have not been bad to have a flexible
society. But a flexible society that is throwing
away religion is the one that is bad. That is
throwing away what has shaped our morals over
the years is what that is very, very bad for
the society. Because having a flexible society
and adapting to the fact that there are technological
advancements, how to go about life and all that
is way different from throwing away morals. Throwing
away religions, because religion and culture
has shaped us, how we behave and all of that.
It plays a huge role in our life at the end of
the day. So throwing it all away and saying,
oh, I just want to be on my own, would just breed
radicals, like this kind of radicals that just
don't know where they are actually coming from
or going. Because religion and culture makes
you have a destination, makes you know where
you're coming from and actually have a destination
that you're heading to. So the interfaith relation
in Nigeria here, I feel like it depends on the
region, honestly. It depends on the region strictly.
And when it comes to the youth, right? It depends
100 % on the region. Because in the region, like
the North Central, like I mentioned and all,
they are losing religion, honestly. And it's
not really playing any role and all of that.
But in the core north and the core east, they
still have, they still very much try to practice
their religion and all. But even though they
practice it, at the end of the day, some politicians
use it as their tools to still ignite violence
between the two factions, you know? Yeah. So.
Yeah. And no, that's, so that's powerful. It's
interesting. I wanted to also pivot into more
of like a politics because. I was in a class,
and two of us are East Africans, and then there's
many West Africans, many Nigerians and Ghanaians.
And us East Africans, we're sharing in East Africa
currently right now, we are seeing a lot of youth
rise up and actively fight government corruption,
actively fight government forces, especially
in Kenya, which you probably have heard. President
Ruto and everything that's going on over there.
So the young people have been the most powerful
and vocal force in challenging the established.
They're sort of tired, as we call them, of the
old elephants, of the independence soldiers,
our fathers and our grandfathers who won our
independence, who have been in power for so long.
And so when I mentioned this, a young Nigerian
said, well, that's not happening with us. He's
like, that's something that must be with you.
So I wanted to hear. From what you are seeing,
are young Nigerians, both Christians and Muslims,
actively having opportunities to engage in politics
and the challenges? You know, being able to fight
against the government if necessary, being able
to protest? Honestly, it's not here. Like the
person said, we've found it hard for youths to
participate in. The government has... continue
to use it, you know, but there have not been
this strong organization between the youth themselves
to try to bring down this corruption and law.
The times that they've attempted to, it went
bad in some ways. I don't know if you heard about
the NSAS protest. It was very popular. The NSAS,
we had this other protest that went on last year.
You know, there was no serious unity among the
youth, you know, to some extent. And even though
there was unity, sometimes, like the NSAS protests,
there was unity and all, the government brought
them down. Government fought against them. But
I feel like it's because some youths are not,
they're not really sticking together, you know.
Some youths really just work for the government.
They collect bribes. They collect money from
the government. So they even mobilize their own,
the fellow youths against the youths, you know.
Wow, okay. Yeah, it happens again. Nigerian situation
is much more of like a very selfish one. Nigerians
have this mentality of all man for themselves.
It's the all man for himself. Right. So that's
one of the biggest issue in Nigeria is they hardly
have unity among themselves. I'll give you an
example. We are actually on strike right now,
the Academic Staff Union in Nigeria. They went
on a two weeks warning strike. And in that two
weeks, they've always gone on strike because
of how they've been treated badly. You know,
Nigerian professors are the lowest paid professors
in Nigeria. In Africa, I mean, in Africa. So
they've been protesting and protesting and protesting
about like increments and all of that and better
treatment. That's why I said to come into this
line is strictly by passion because there's nothing
there to entice you to even come in. They've
been protesting and all, but even inside that
protest. Even those who it is still affecting,
some still go behind them and side with the government,
you know, collect bribes. Some, they even try
to form some other organization, you know, they
don't really stick together firmly to the end.
Because people have said they had actually used
the strike and continuously without listening
to the government and fake promises, they would
definitely have done something for them all these
years, you know, for years. over the years since
1990 -something, they always keep going on strike,
strike, and nothing is being done, just false
promises. So that's just an example of one faction
of Nigeria. That's not even the youth, you know?
Those are not even youth. But when it even comes
to the youth, that is also a big problem. They
are not very unified when it comes to decision
-making, strict decision -making, policy -making,
and all of that when it comes to... that in Nigeria
is not very strict. So it makes the youth make
these poor decisions. So there are some, they're
not always together. And the state of Nigeria
too, being that religion, when it comes to interfaith
studies, I think Nigeria is one place that is
a big case study, you know, because of how it's
divided. There's a Christian area, there's a
mixed, then there's the Muslim area. You know,
that's the amalgamation of Southern and Northern
Nigeria in 1914. by lord lugad you know it's
had this it's had that effect that up till today
those things are still affecting us because i
believe if northern nigeria was a state on its
own northern nigeria right that's the whole of
central north west northeast was the states because
there are lots of states that are not even big
as like quarter of nigeria so countries i mean
countries they're not as big as half of nigeria
so if northern nigeria was a country on its own
Then Southern Nigeria was a country on its own.
I feel like Nigeria would be able to easily find
solutions to have issues, you know, corruptions,
youth issues, all those things. It would have
been very easy to do that. But Nigeria is divided.
Nigeria is too big. Yeah. It's now divided. We
have over 300 and something tribes in Nigeria
as ethnic groups in Nigeria. That is for ethnic
groups. Then for religion, we have two dominant
religions, the Muslims and the Christians, and
they are always against each other to some extent.
You, this, that, and that. Even those who are
claiming to be liberal and Gen Z and all of that,
some of them are still being washed up to today
when it comes to trying to argue or trying to
bring, you know, trying to win an argument. They
still later go down the religion line, you know,
trying to bring up a point like, oh, I see you
guys are religious and are you guys not worst?
Even those who claim to be liberal. Yeah. you
know they still have something against the other
religion so the modern level claim to deliver
something against the christian religion they
that are also trying to push away the religion
are still having something against the other
religion it is kind of embedded into the blood
of those because they have not been that they
are not supposed to be together at the end of
the day right they were supposed to just be neighbors
right but they've kind of bounded them together
governments founded them by force right Okay.
No, that's, that's incredible. Thank you so much.
That was actually an amazing, you know, just
breakdown of the challenges because I think this
is something, you know, we actively both want
to work together in terms of building scholarship
and in terms of this. So this is, this is really
great. And just a little bit more of some personal
things that I've always admired that, you know,
you model boldness, modesty, intellectual strength.
You know, how do you think, just to kind of finalize
things, how do you think the way that you carry
yourself as a young Muslim woman can kind of
showcase how faith can actually be an answer
to so many of these political and social problems?
Yeah, thank you. So as a Muslim woman, I have
always taken pride in myself. I'm a very proud
one. You know how I carry myself, how I dress.
I believe that helps you build a very good reputation
and peaceful life also. And also helps you build
a very good cycle and community that respects,
you know, and you guys share good values, morals,
good morals actually. So the way I've always
carried myself, I know the way I carry myself
alone is enough thing that gives me. a kind of
inner peace. Because when you are modest, you
kind of live in the way of God and you just are
human. Because it's not only about just bluntly
saying you're religious, you know, or saying
that I am a Muslim or I'm a Christian. We don't
want to talk about it from a religious perspective.
It's about being human, being a good person.
take you a good person then when it comes to
how you portray yourself it would always encourage
the others to see the beauty in you and the religion
that you represent you know i always tell women
that it is you're not limited because of religion
i always have that mindset religion is not limiting
you to be beautiful religion is not limiting
you to be creative religion is not limiting you
to to do to do outstanding things in life which
is a little misconception that I'll just say,
is it misconception? I'll call it maybe misconception.
Some people or some women from this part of the
world feel like, oh, not even only this part
of the world. I mean, I think maybe everywhere
will feel, oh, if I'm being religious, I am local.
If I'm being religious, I'm not modern. I'm not
going to be recognized in this way. I need to
be flexible and all. And I disagree so hard with
that. I feel like religion is the one that makes
me talk the world. Amen. being modest, having
a way of life, a strict way of life. Because
if you accept religion as your way of life, not
just culture, because culture shapes to some
extent, but religion is the one that defines
it more because there are strict rules to religion.
And when you allow the combination of culture
and religion to shape your life, you move as
a good person automatically. You move with morals.
And morals can never be bad. You know, I just
feel, you know, when people talk against, being
modest against being it's just because they want
to have like willingly do their bad characters
without being accountable you know that is something
i actually think about people like just talking
down on religion or practicing religion and all
of that i feel like it's just an escape you know
just feel like i want to just rebel and do whatever
i want just because they don't want to be held
accountable because because if you don't want
to rebel and just feel like you want to just
do whatever you want. And you know that there
is actually accountability in life. You have
to be a good person. Be human. You know, humanity
tops it all. You just want to be human. Then
why would you be scared of religion? Why would
you think that the kind of way you present yourself
or how you're modest is not good enough or is
kind of dimitting you in any way? I believe how
I carry myself, how I dress is beautiful. I get
more compliments than whoever. dresses anyhow
or don't even know how to wear something. So
what is actually there to admire outside that
may be out of modesty. As a Muslim woman who
deal with myself, I'm not saying because this
is a Muslim society before we think, oh, it's
because I'm around. No. Even outside when I was
at LSA, you know LSA is the central part of Nigeria,
you know, just accommodate everybody. Even there
I got lots of compliments from both the Christians.
the muslims from the whites like oh you look
pretty i love how you i love your dress so i
get nice compliments people tell me oh you look
beautiful it's i don't expose my body so why
would i wow that is why i insist strictly that
it's not about the you being it's not you don't
just want to be modest because they want to do
something out of modesty because of their own
mindset, you know. They just want to do that
because they want to rebel. But they now feel
like running away from religion is the perfect
escape. I don't know if it's just like those
other movements or these other liberal movements
and all. They just feel like religion, they meet
somebody too much. So please, I don't want to
be. It's just because they want to do whatever
they want. So they feel like religion is a cage
that does not allow them to do whatever they
want. But if anyone is human and has lots of
morals. in themselves and just have those morals
and they have pride in them. You know, there's
no how you just fit and feel like being modest
is me caging myself. I'll give you an example
of some ladies here in Nigeria that given people
that I grew up with. In my secondary school,
there was one, there was a lady that converted
to Christianity in the hostel. The reason she
converted to Christianity is not because she
read the Bible, fell in love with the Bible and
she loves Christianity. If someone should convert
to Christianity because they read the Bible,
they fell in love with the Bible and all of that,
I would just see that as, oh, that is how the
person's life went. But when you convert to Christianity
because you think you want to be free, you see
that that is just like an escape, right? It's
just an escape. It's not as if they loved. Christianity
or anything she changed to Christianity because
she feel like she cannot be she don't have strength
to pray five times a lot she can't do this that
they forcing her to cover her hair and all of
that blah blah blah so when she changed to Christianity
she saw Christianity as freedom no so it was
not as if she was in love with the religion it's
not as if she knows deep about the scriptures
and all of that but just because she thought
that place was much more easy to be free and
now I'm going to tell you That Christianity she
converted to, she's not actually a Christian.
You know, she's just a Christian by mouth because
she just feel like, I want to be able to dress
how I want. But you will see that kind of person,
she won't go to church. She won't practice, you
know, she will not really be involved in Christianity.
Because it was not because of the love of God
that drew her there. It was because she just
wanted to be free. So those are the kind of things
that happen in the society. So now this is for
a Muslim person, right? That felt they saw freedom
in Christianity. Now imagine it from a Christian
perspective. That is why they now totally dump
the religion. But they now feel like, why do
I even have to? As far as I believe in God in
my heart, I'm not going to claim to be under
any religion just because they want to be free
to do whatever they want to do. They feel like
if I want to go naked on the road and do whatever
I want to do, as far as I don't claim to be a
Christian, then I believe in God in my heart
and I'm okay. I'm not claiming to be in a religion.
You know, those are the things that actually
shape people and how they make their decisions.
But I believe strictly, like how I carry myself,
the things I advocate for would really impact.
I'm working towards that, actually, because I
don't want to give up on religion. I'm not giving
up on religion. And I'm one of those people.
I think we are both on the same page in that.
I'm one of those people who would not allow those
people who want immorality to win. Because it's
not about leaving religion. It's just about pushing
immorality. And I'm one of those people who would
not allow immorality to win because at the end
of the day, a moral society is a peaceful society.
So when you allow immorality to win, you are
bringing down the morals of the society and they
will not be pleased in the society at the end
of the day when everyone feels like they can
do whatever they want. So I'm one of those people
who are advocating seriously. I will continue
to dress how I dress and preach. We are not perfect.
I'm not saying I'm the perfect one. We all have
our flaws to some extent. I've even made mistakes
that would go back to Allah and cry, please forgive
me, I did this. So that makes us human at the
end of the day. But actively accepting that as
a human being, you make mistakes and you have
to go back to God and seek for forgiveness. That
is what makes you a modest or moral one. Not
saying that, okay, I'm exclusively the best because
no one is. No one can be. So I'm going to continue
to advocate for the good things like oh you should
practice your religion and even though you don't
want you feel like you don't want to actively
practice religion if you want if you end up being
a good person you will find yourself even practicing
religion without you knowing because both religions
both muslim islam and christianity they they
preach just a good life there is it doesn't preach
violence none of the religion preaches violence
none of them preaches you know immorality it
just kind of shapes the way of life in a simple
and peaceful manner. And the thing about humans
and youths, especially this is my generation,
that they don't like simplicity. People don't
like simplicity anymore. They want complexities,
like unnecessary discourses, just making everything
dramatic, like taking out the simpleness out
of life, just turning it out to be something
unnecessarily big. So that is the problem with
youths. I would say for youths, that's why it
was easy for the past generation to maybe practice
religion without having so much issues and all.
Although they also had their own issues. They
had the time they did it in some way that affected
them. But that doesn't warrant it, like the whole
religion dying down because you want to be free,
you know? So if you have morals as a person,
it's just you being a good human being at the
end of the day. And I'll continue to say, I'll
continue to shape my people. I do my outreach,
like they need to outreach when there are NGOs
to work with. I try my best to show up, to give
lectures, to encourage the girls, tell you, you
have to always be willing to look into a man's
eyes, especially in this part of the country,
where the standard is for a lady to always be
too shy and all. I believe in femininity, you
know, being soft as a girl. I'm also just a girl
at the end of the day. And I believe in being
soft. But that should not limit you to where
your voice needs to be heard. Then you keep quiet,
you know. You should be willing to talk where
you are supposed to talk. Not because, oh, I'm
a girl, I don't want to talk. I'm shy. Even though
you know you can, but you just feel like, oh,
I'm a girl, let the guys do the talking. So you
should always be willing to talk. So I go around
educating that even as a Muslim woman here, have
values, you know. Being a Muslim and being modest
and all of that is not limiting you from having
your own special values, from impacting your
own society. By having a name that belongs to
you, your own name, that you hold strongly. So
I'm always encouraging that you don't have to
drop your hijab or be immoral or rebel even against
your family or society to make an impact. No,
I'm still very obedient to my parents. I'm still
very passionate about getting married and having
children. Following the regular life, nothing
much. And with that, I still want to be a career
woman and have a career. So I feel like nothing
is limiting me in all of it. Wonderful. That's
wonderful. And just to wrap things up, just kind
of if you give people some knowledge of where
they can find you. I know you have some hand,
you know, you speak this language. I'm old now.
So the Instagram, you know, and all the TikTok
and everything, because I know you do a lot of
stuff. So I'd love for people to follow you.
So I actually have some social media handles.
On Instagram, my little business page is Nabila's
Closet on Instagram. On Facebook, I think I also
have a business. My business is not very active
there. It's just personal. That is Nabila Momo,
not Nabila Yusuf. On Facebook, I use the family's
name, Nabila Momo there. And on TikTok, I have
my business pitch too. It's just a mix. I just
make videos addressing the youth, trying to encourage
them to do better in some characters and, you
know, specifics like that. And just myself generally.
So on TikTok, I also have my account, which is
Nabila or Nabila's Closets too. That's the business
name, the second name that is with it. So those
are my social media handles. Not with much followers,
but at least I have a little. community just
very little that at least they see the value
I bring and they do engage with it and they appreciate
it so nice nice wonderful so it's been such a
wonderful experience as always Nabila working
and speaking to you you always I feel like you
are a professor already always teaching me I
learned so much from you and uh so I uh for anybody
who's listening we are actively working to raise
funds to support Nabila's journey as she looks
to you know god willing be in the u .s next year
um and so she'll hopefully be a part of the fiu
class of 2000 you know or the incoming 2026 class
of phd students And, you know, we've been actively
praying together about it and excited. And we
are already working on some projects together
because we are actively, we both believe in peace
and we both believe in our respective religions
working together and coming together. And we
both love our continent and our respective countries.
So looking forward to seeing her. And Nabila,
thank you so much as always. And we will definitely
be hearing from you some more. Thank you so,
so much. I really do appreciate the session.
I really do appreciate you. It's been such a
wonderful time. It's been, it's been so nice
knowing you for the past few months and I do
appreciate your presence. Honestly, I do appreciate
your presence in my life. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.