WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.740 Welcome to Don't Scare the Newbies, a podcast 00:00:01.740 --> 00:00:04.759 where we talk kink, raw and unfiltered. I'm Carizal, 00:00:04.780 --> 00:00:07.419 a lifestyle submissive in a 24 -7 dynamic who 00:00:07.419 --> 00:00:10.980 likes their kink heavy, intense and scary. And 00:00:10.980 --> 00:00:13.220 I'm S. Carizal's Dominant, who knows how to deliver 00:00:13.220 --> 00:00:15.560 all of the above. And today it's another kinky 00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:17.539 movie night. This time we're talking about Crash. 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:20.600 Just hit me with your car! You stole my line! 00:00:43.929 --> 00:00:49.170 So, crash. Crash. For clarity, the 1996 crash, 00:00:49.390 --> 00:00:50.890 because there's been a more recent crash and 00:00:50.890 --> 00:00:52.670 people getting those two confused sometimes causes 00:00:52.670 --> 00:00:55.109 problems in their lives. I don't know what the 00:00:55.109 --> 00:00:57.369 other one is about, but probably. I'm not sure 00:00:57.369 --> 00:00:59.350 either, but I think it was an Oscar winner or 00:00:59.350 --> 00:01:01.729 Oscar nominated and doesn't involve people having 00:01:01.729 --> 00:01:04.870 sex in car crashes mix. So if people downloaded 00:01:04.870 --> 00:01:07.269 the wrong one, they got a bit of an upset sometimes, 00:01:07.390 --> 00:01:09.730 I think. Yes, I can well imagine they did. There 00:01:09.730 --> 00:01:11.469 were similar confusions with the pianist and 00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:13.989 the piano teacher. with the same problems because 00:01:13.989 --> 00:01:17.109 the piano teacher is fucked up. Right. I don't 00:01:17.109 --> 00:01:18.909 think I've ever heard of that film. We will have 00:01:18.909 --> 00:01:20.629 to watch it sometime for a kinky movie night. 00:01:20.629 --> 00:01:22.109 Is that a kinky movie night movie? There you 00:01:22.109 --> 00:01:25.090 go. It's a sadomasochistic movie anyway. Right. 00:01:25.129 --> 00:01:27.310 It's not about consensual kink. No. But it's 00:01:27.310 --> 00:01:30.450 interesting. Excellent. That's all the best things 00:01:30.450 --> 00:01:36.640 you usually have. So yes, Crash. Why? Why did 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:39.500 we watch Crash? Well, Mix, I mean, you agreed 00:01:39.500 --> 00:01:41.019 to this, even though you'd seen it before and 00:01:41.019 --> 00:01:43.040 already knew you weren't a big fan. Yeah. But 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:45.579 I wanted us to do something different next because 00:01:45.579 --> 00:01:47.519 we've, so far for the movies we've talked about, 00:01:47.659 --> 00:01:49.859 we've done Fifty Shades, we've done Pillion and 00:01:49.859 --> 00:01:51.959 we've done Secretary. Yes. All very different 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:53.939 movies that we had different sort of views and 00:01:53.939 --> 00:01:56.459 reactions to, but they are all about power exchange 00:01:56.459 --> 00:01:59.280 relationships. Yeah. They're about a couple exploring 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:02.359 BDSM, sometimes better than others. Yes. And 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:05.560 done better than others. Yes. Yeah. Where Crash 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:09.500 is about kink or fetishism in a very, very different 00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:12.400 way. It's not about power exchange. It's about 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.120 people who are turned on by car crashes, which 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:17.060 is totally different. Plus, I'd never seen it 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:20.699 before. No, so it's always interesting to watch 00:02:20.699 --> 00:02:23.219 a film you've seen before with someone who hasn't. 00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:27.719 It's always a fun experience. Yeah. Kind of having 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.400 to sit on your hands a little bit and not get 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:33.060 too kind of... hung up on going oh I know what 00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:34.719 happens next you're not going to believe what 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:36.919 happens next though what happens next was never 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:39.560 particularly surprising in this one I would say 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:43.759 no it is a little bit one note yeah and as we'll 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:45.719 get into as we talk more about it I think I liked 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:48.479 it more than you but it's not a movie where its 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:52.060 greatest strength is its twisty turny unpredictable 00:02:52.060 --> 00:02:55.280 complex plot yes yeah it's got some really interesting 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:58.400 ideas I think but not necessarily a very surprising 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:01.060 story No, it's pretty straightforward, isn't 00:03:01.060 --> 00:03:05.560 it? And another film in which James Spader plays 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.659 a little pervert. Yeah. With hair. Yes, we love 00:03:08.659 --> 00:03:10.620 that for him. He does seem to really like being 00:03:10.620 --> 00:03:15.539 just a little freak. Yes, yes, he does. And I 00:03:15.539 --> 00:03:17.780 still cannot get over James Spader with hair. 00:03:17.979 --> 00:03:21.639 A slim James Spader with lots of hair. Just doesn't 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:23.659 look right. Only movies I've seen him in are 00:03:23.659 --> 00:03:26.240 two movies where he's a little pervert who is 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:28.189 slim with hair. So that's just... That's just 00:03:28.189 --> 00:03:30.050 normal to me now. That's what I expect from him. 00:03:30.210 --> 00:03:33.469 Yeah. And that's completely valid. I think if 00:03:33.469 --> 00:03:35.009 you watch The Blacklist, you'd be like, who is 00:03:35.009 --> 00:03:37.750 that guy? He sounds familiar. Not a little pervert 00:03:37.750 --> 00:03:40.569 with hair anymore, Mick. Well, I think Raymond 00:03:40.569 --> 00:03:43.229 Reddington is probably a bit of a pervert. He 00:03:43.229 --> 00:03:46.229 seems the type, but he's filled out over the 00:03:46.229 --> 00:03:49.389 years and still very handsome, very handsome 00:03:49.389 --> 00:03:55.069 man, but bald. Yeah. Very different. Yes. I don't 00:03:55.069 --> 00:03:57.169 know why. I am so obsessed with the fact that 00:03:57.169 --> 00:03:58.849 James Spader once had hair and I just cannot 00:03:58.849 --> 00:04:01.430 get my head around it. It is often the case with 00:04:01.430 --> 00:04:03.629 people who are now bald is that once they had 00:04:03.629 --> 00:04:05.669 hair. They once had hair. Like yourself, Mix. 00:04:05.810 --> 00:04:13.689 Like myself. Before I became a bald baddie. Just 00:04:13.689 --> 00:04:15.090 to be clear, because I can't remember whether 00:04:15.090 --> 00:04:16.670 we've talked about that on any of the episodes 00:04:16.670 --> 00:04:19.029 before, that is not a self -imposed title. That 00:04:19.029 --> 00:04:21.189 is something that somebody described me as in 00:04:21.189 --> 00:04:23.910 your TikTok comment. Yes. Yeah, because I never 00:04:23.910 --> 00:04:25.329 show your face, but I sometimes show the back 00:04:25.329 --> 00:04:27.610 of your head. And that was the response. Yes. 00:04:27.910 --> 00:04:31.610 Apparently a bald baddie. Yes. Something else 00:04:31.610 --> 00:04:33.110 that I thought was interesting about this movie 00:04:33.110 --> 00:04:35.949 is that it feels timely for us to talk about 00:04:35.949 --> 00:04:37.790 it because the reaction this movie got when it 00:04:37.790 --> 00:04:40.410 came out, there was a huge media panic around 00:04:40.410 --> 00:04:43.230 it and a lot of controversy about how explicit 00:04:43.230 --> 00:04:46.129 it was, how dangerous the behaviour was in it. 00:04:46.189 --> 00:04:48.509 Some criticism around its depiction of disability 00:04:48.509 --> 00:04:52.149 as well. And it was all very much like a media 00:04:52.149 --> 00:04:54.290 driven panic where a lot of people who hadn't 00:04:54.290 --> 00:04:56.569 seen the movie but had seen articles in the Daily 00:04:56.569 --> 00:04:59.639 Mail talking about it got really worked. up about 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:03.019 it and there were calls to ban it um it was reviewed 00:05:03.019 --> 00:05:06.120 in depth in the uk by the bbfc and they cleared 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:08.600 it their investigation included like talking 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.259 to a psychologist or a psychiatrist they talked 00:05:11.259 --> 00:05:13.180 to disabled people to get their perspective on 00:05:13.180 --> 00:05:15.139 it and they weren't able to find grounds to ban 00:05:15.139 --> 00:05:17.720 it which is a rare good decision from the bbfc 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:19.800 because they do sometimes like to do that yeah 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:22.139 yeah they didn't require any cuts or anything 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:27.339 no And I can see why, to be fair. They have passed 00:05:27.339 --> 00:05:30.339 some pretty gnarly films with limited cuts in 00:05:30.339 --> 00:05:34.480 the past. Yeah. And some really strange cuts 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:37.620 as well. Like you see some horror movies and 00:05:37.620 --> 00:05:40.279 slasher -type movies where you compare the cinema 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:43.500 version to the uncut version. And you're like, 00:05:43.579 --> 00:05:46.100 why? Why is that five seconds of blood too much? 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.000 Yeah. It's sometimes hard to understand. And 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:50.600 there was a long period of time where they were 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:55.019 banning any headbutts, at least from movies that 00:05:55.019 --> 00:05:57.240 weren't 18 rated. If you showed a headbutt, that 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.339 would have to be cut, even in sort of quite kind 00:05:59.339 --> 00:06:02.379 of cartoonish action violence. The Matrix originally 00:06:02.379 --> 00:06:04.439 had some headbutts removed and you had to get 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:06.339 the American version to see it. I was obsessed 00:06:06.339 --> 00:06:07.939 with The Matrix movies when I was a teenager, 00:06:08.060 --> 00:06:10.800 so I know all the law there. I did not know that. 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:13.259 I'd be interested to see the American versions 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:15.560 of those films. But yes, because you were very 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:17.579 young when this came out. I would have been six, 00:06:17.620 --> 00:06:20.000 yes. Much too young to watch it. I would have 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:23.720 been 17. And I remember the kind of panic about 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.000 it. Didn't see it when it first came out, but 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:32.720 was aware of the content of it. And I think I 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:35.899 had a similar thing to you of kind of, why? Why 00:06:35.899 --> 00:06:39.920 are we? What's the big deal? It's just weird 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:44.740 people having weird sex. Yeah. Who cares? If 00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:46.980 you don't like it, don't watch it. Yeah. If you 00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:49.060 start to watch it and you don't like it, turn 00:06:49.060 --> 00:06:52.000 it off. Leave the cinema. The adult thing to 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:54.319 do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Act like a fucking grown 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:56.720 -up. But yeah, there were certain local authorities 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:58.920 that banned it from being shown within their 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:00.699 boundaries and it ended up having a delayed release 00:07:00.699 --> 00:07:03.279 in the US while they were dithering about whether 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:06.699 it was able to release it or not. I didn't even 00:07:06.699 --> 00:07:09.439 know local authorities could do that. Yeah, I 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:11.000 mean, I have no idea if they still can, but at 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:13.180 the time at least, yeah, cinemas within certain... 00:07:13.470 --> 00:07:16.689 boundaries weren't showing it right um and the 00:07:16.689 --> 00:07:18.329 cinemas that were showing it i think this was 00:07:18.329 --> 00:07:19.850 in america actually some of the cinemas that 00:07:19.850 --> 00:07:22.149 were showing it hired security to make absolutely 00:07:22.149 --> 00:07:24.589 certain no minors were getting in right it was 00:07:24.589 --> 00:07:26.370 like okay we can release this but we're taking 00:07:26.370 --> 00:07:28.550 it more seriously than age ratings normally are 00:07:28.550 --> 00:07:31.069 like absolutely no kids can see this which i 00:07:31.069 --> 00:07:33.810 i wouldn't disagree with but yeah panicking about 00:07:33.810 --> 00:07:36.129 that rather than any other movies with sex and 00:07:36.129 --> 00:07:39.709 violence and feels There's this particular fear 00:07:39.709 --> 00:07:42.569 people have, I think, about depictions of sex 00:07:42.569 --> 00:07:45.490 and violence together. Yeah. That's where people 00:07:45.490 --> 00:07:47.189 start to get really freaked out a lot of the 00:07:47.189 --> 00:07:50.110 time. But also I think just perversion in general, 00:07:50.209 --> 00:07:52.709 like that's anything that's seen as outside the 00:07:52.709 --> 00:07:54.750 norm sexually is where these panics come from. 00:07:54.790 --> 00:07:57.430 So we're seeing this at the moment with the way 00:07:57.430 --> 00:07:59.790 that the government and the media are looking 00:07:59.790 --> 00:08:03.470 at depictions of incest, including step incest 00:08:03.470 --> 00:08:06.370 in porn. Yeah. The way that they're looking at 00:08:06.370 --> 00:08:09.110 age play. going back a couple of years you know 00:08:09.110 --> 00:08:11.110 the bringing in of age verification for access 00:08:11.110 --> 00:08:13.389 to porn yeah i don't think anyone wants kids 00:08:13.389 --> 00:08:15.649 watching porn but the fact that we now are all 00:08:15.649 --> 00:08:18.129 just expected to upload our ids to any website 00:08:18.129 --> 00:08:20.930 with adult material on is yeah yeah very heavy 00:08:20.930 --> 00:08:23.149 -handed way of dealing with that yeah hand over 00:08:23.149 --> 00:08:26.050 our government id or our credit card number yeah 00:08:26.050 --> 00:08:31.290 to a porn site yeah not ideal not ideal And a 00:08:31.290 --> 00:08:35.129 lot of the fear around BDSM and depictions of 00:08:35.129 --> 00:08:38.129 violence in sexual material being a contributing 00:08:38.129 --> 00:08:40.990 factor to violence against women and girls. And 00:08:40.990 --> 00:08:43.190 that being sort of what the conversation centers 00:08:43.190 --> 00:08:46.350 around completely ignoring the gender and sexuality 00:08:46.350 --> 00:08:49.649 diversity in this stuff, ignoring consent, ignoring 00:08:49.649 --> 00:08:52.350 ethics, involving ignoring risk awareness, all 00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:55.759 of that just. To whip up hysteria about violence 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:57.679 against women and girls is a really serious problem 00:08:57.679 --> 00:08:59.919 and it's really important. But using people's 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:02.100 understandable fear and concern about that to 00:09:02.100 --> 00:09:05.100 turn them against other things. Yeah. It feels 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:08.240 like nothing's really changed in nearly 30 years. 00:09:08.580 --> 00:09:13.519 Yes. It feels like it's an easy target, isn't 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:19.200 it? Kind of films like Crash, porn. are easy 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:22.460 targets but are the wrong targets in in the majority 00:09:22.460 --> 00:09:26.379 of cases so yeah controversial i think is probably 00:09:26.379 --> 00:09:28.919 the word definitely yeah i think it's worth mentioning 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.000 at this point as well that given that this movie 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.820 is about 30 years old and very popular at the 00:09:33.820 --> 00:09:36.899 time but maybe not as commonly seen by by some 00:09:36.899 --> 00:09:40.120 of our younger listeners um i think this episode 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:42.240 is one that you could probably get a lot out 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:44.399 of will get a lot out of even if you haven't 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.320 seen the movie usually if we're doing a movie 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.360 i say like go away watch the movie first but 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.159 in this case for a start us talking in depth 00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:52.799 about the plot of crash won't really spoil it 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:55.200 for you the plot isn't really the point the ideas 00:09:55.200 --> 00:10:00.230 are um it's it's light on plot I love that the 00:10:00.230 --> 00:10:02.149 plot isn't really the point as if there is one. 00:10:03.029 --> 00:10:05.330 There is. It's just there's not a lot to it. 00:10:05.909 --> 00:10:08.850 And we're going to be talking a lot about some 00:10:08.850 --> 00:10:11.070 of the thoughts that came up for us and some 00:10:11.070 --> 00:10:12.830 of the themes of the movie, which even if you 00:10:12.830 --> 00:10:14.450 haven't seen it, will be things that you probably 00:10:14.450 --> 00:10:16.129 know a little bit about or have some interest 00:10:16.129 --> 00:10:18.169 in. Now, I know we've said that the plot was 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:21.549 not particularly important, maybe not the main 00:10:21.549 --> 00:10:23.730 focus. No. It had a plot. So do you want to tell 00:10:23.730 --> 00:10:26.570 us what that was, Mix? Yeah, probably more accurately 00:10:26.570 --> 00:10:28.860 described as a sequence of events. That's fair. 00:10:28.980 --> 00:10:32.340 But the movie centres on a movie producer called 00:10:32.340 --> 00:10:35.080 James, James Ballard. A little bit of a shout 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:36.600 out to the person who wrote the book that the 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:39.480 film is based on. Yep. And the character after 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:43.700 himself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And his wife, partner, 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:47.289 Catherine, who are in an open relationship. Never 00:10:47.289 --> 00:10:50.230 really understand the detail or the nuance of 00:10:50.230 --> 00:10:52.070 the openness of that relationship, but they fuck 00:10:52.070 --> 00:10:54.090 other people, is about as much as we are told. 00:10:54.309 --> 00:10:56.889 James is involved in a car crash and encounters, 00:10:56.970 --> 00:10:59.850 on the other side of that, a woman whose character 00:10:59.850 --> 00:11:03.169 name I forget, I think it's Helen, who is visibly 00:11:03.169 --> 00:11:05.990 aroused and flashes her boobs at him. Yeah, makes. 00:11:06.470 --> 00:11:08.830 And as part of his recovery from that crash, 00:11:08.889 --> 00:11:12.789 he meets Helen properly and someone called Vaughn. 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:15.840 who is a bit of a mad scientist kind of guy. 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.879 And they are Helen and... I'm going to assume 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:20.779 she's called Helen. I think she is. Should I 00:11:20.779 --> 00:11:23.539 Google it before we say any more? She is, yes. 00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:25.360 So he meets these two people as part of his recovery 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:29.200 and they are turned on by being in or around 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:32.460 cars and car crashes, essentially. Yep. And... 00:11:32.940 --> 00:11:35.919 At first James, but then Catherine get drawn 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:39.559 into that underground world of a fairly small 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.159 group of people who fetishise cars and car crashes. 00:11:42.220 --> 00:11:45.100 They have lots of sex in and around car crashes. 00:11:45.139 --> 00:11:50.740 They simulate famous car crashes. So James Dean, 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:53.620 James Mansfield, people like that, kind of iconic 00:11:53.620 --> 00:11:57.730 people who have died in iconic car crashes. And 00:11:57.730 --> 00:12:00.350 that escalates throughout the film. So they go 00:12:00.350 --> 00:12:03.250 from watching instant recreations of car crashes. 00:12:03.289 --> 00:12:08.309 They get involved themselves in car crashes and 00:12:08.309 --> 00:12:11.470 put themselves in situations where they are aroused 00:12:11.470 --> 00:12:15.309 by kind of being in and around cars. The seriousness 00:12:15.309 --> 00:12:18.129 of the car crashes escalates throughout the movie 00:12:18.129 --> 00:12:21.870 to the point where one of the characters, Vaughn, 00:12:21.950 --> 00:12:24.429 creates quite a significant car crash and dies, 00:12:24.549 --> 00:12:28.620 which is like the ultimate. orgasm for him and 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:30.879 then Catherine and James together at the end 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:32.759 do a similar sort of thing they both survive 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:35.419 but they're both really turned on by it and the 00:12:35.419 --> 00:12:37.940 movie finishes with them in the aftermath of 00:12:37.940 --> 00:12:40.059 a car crash that they've been involved with having 00:12:40.059 --> 00:12:44.259 sex and the implication is that that is part 00:12:44.259 --> 00:12:48.620 of their fetish part of their sex life now as 00:12:48.620 --> 00:12:51.559 they continue I suppose I think that's a pretty 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:55.039 straightforward summary of the plot. I would 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:56.940 say so, yes. Makes it amazing. I think there 00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:59.639 is probably about two minutes of dialogue in 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.220 that entire film, which actually explains the 00:13:02.220 --> 00:13:04.240 motivation, certainly from Vaughn's perspective, 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:07.220 who is played brilliantly by Elias Koteas, I 00:13:07.220 --> 00:13:08.879 will say. He is a brilliant actor and he is very 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:12.419 good in that. But yeah, there is about two minutes 00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:14.879 of dialogue, which explains it for the audience. 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:18.960 And other than that, it is essentially a montage 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.519 of car crash erotica. Yeah, because when you 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:24.440 start describing the whole plot, it's like, oh, 00:13:24.460 --> 00:13:26.379 OK, so quite a lot happens. But what you don't 00:13:26.379 --> 00:13:28.700 understand is the pace of the movie is very much 00:13:28.700 --> 00:13:31.500 driven by here is a car crash and then some people 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:33.559 are fucking in it. Here is a slow -mo sequence 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:36.320 of someone wandering around in a car crash that 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.480 has happened with multiple vehicles involved 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:42.259 and vehicles on fire. It's very much filmed as 00:13:42.259 --> 00:13:45.190 erotica at times. Yeah. while showing things 00:13:45.190 --> 00:13:48.850 that are not particularly erotic. No. Like, this 00:13:48.850 --> 00:13:50.909 is not a thing most people would be into seeing, 00:13:50.990 --> 00:13:53.129 but it's filmed in a way as if it's giving you 00:13:53.129 --> 00:13:56.009 that sort of voyeuristic insight into it. Yeah, 00:13:56.070 --> 00:14:00.429 I'd agree with that. And it's not massively explicit 00:14:00.429 --> 00:14:03.570 either, I don't think. I feel like you may have 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:05.330 seen too much porn mix. It is quite explicit 00:14:05.330 --> 00:14:07.830 for a movie. Yeah, for a movie that was released 00:14:07.830 --> 00:14:10.230 in the mainstream cinemas. There's quite a lot 00:14:10.230 --> 00:14:13.029 of boobs in it. Yeah. There's a little bit of... 00:14:16.439 --> 00:14:18.879 Vagina. Vagina. I was going to say pubic mound. 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:23.720 But it's not like... I don't think you see a 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:26.200 penis. You don't see a penis, Nomix, but I feel 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.799 like that is probably a little bit of misogyny. 00:14:29.059 --> 00:14:31.759 Yeah, probably. Yeah, a little bit of male gaze 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:34.360 going on there, probably. But for the reputation 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:37.679 that it's got, even by the standards of other 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:42.299 erotic thrillers, there's probably less in it. 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:44.940 then you might expect it isn't really about the 00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:48.000 sex and the nudity. It's about something else, 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.120 which I think surprised me watching it again. 00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:53.039 Because I think I remembered it being a little 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.620 bit filthier than that. Yeah, which makes sense 00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:57.539 if you saw it not long after it was released 00:14:57.539 --> 00:14:59.360 when you were in your late teens, maybe. Yeah, 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.519 yeah. It would have seemed quite spicy. Yeah, 00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:03.840 yeah, yeah. I don't know how my life has changed. 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:10.299 How my attitudes have changed over the time. 00:15:11.019 --> 00:15:14.440 I had a pretty visceral reaction when the film 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:17.379 finished, I think. You did say, I hate it quite 00:15:17.379 --> 00:15:22.659 a few times, Mix. Yeah. It's just dull. That 00:15:22.659 --> 00:15:25.899 was my initial take on it. And it's such a shame 00:15:25.899 --> 00:15:30.159 because it is such a... Like, the idea of it 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:33.480 is really, really good. It's such a transgressive 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:37.299 concept that it could have been brilliant if 00:15:37.299 --> 00:15:43.409 it wasn't so slow and so dull. It's my review 00:15:43.409 --> 00:15:45.110 of it. Was there anything you did like about 00:15:45.110 --> 00:15:47.429 it, Mix? I thought Elias Kosias was really good. 00:15:47.570 --> 00:15:50.929 Yeah. I think he played that kind of unhinged 00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:54.570 mad scientist kind of character really, really 00:15:54.570 --> 00:15:58.029 well. And you could just tell how much he was 00:15:58.029 --> 00:16:00.190 into what he was doing. Like when you first meet 00:16:00.190 --> 00:16:02.629 him and he's kind of practically licking James 00:16:02.629 --> 00:16:09.559 Spader's leg. in the hospital corridor. You could 00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:12.179 really, it kind of jumped out at the screen from 00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:16.259 you as a really strong contrast to most of the 00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:18.059 other characters who I felt were a little bit 00:16:18.059 --> 00:16:20.700 flat and a little bit, probably deliberately 00:16:20.700 --> 00:16:23.480 flat and a little bit blasé about the whole thing. 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:26.159 He was really into it and you could tell. So 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.899 I really liked him in it, like an extreme version 00:16:28.899 --> 00:16:32.740 of a proper fetishist as opposed to someone who 00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:36.039 has kinks. Yeah. Played that really, really well. 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:39.840 A lot of sort of shaky, heavy breathing and very 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.080 intense eye contact and in people's personal 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:45.259 space and stuff. Yeah, he did really well to 00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:48.039 show that visually. Yeah, and really, really 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:49.759 cared about what he was doing. There's a scene 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:51.500 where they go to a place where they recreate 00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:53.399 the crashes and he's talking about the crash 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:58.120 that killed James Dean. And you can hear, like 00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:00.500 you say, the shakes in his voice, the way that 00:17:00.500 --> 00:17:02.120 even though he's holding the microphone quite 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.579 far away from his face, his breathing is shaky 00:17:04.579 --> 00:17:07.640 and heavy and he's really visualising it and 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:11.359 getting into it as he's talking about it is really, 00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:15.579 really good. So yeah, I really liked that about 00:17:15.579 --> 00:17:17.920 it. I liked a lot of the ideas that we'll talk 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:19.920 about, the message of what it's trying to do. 00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:26.309 It was just the way that it was delivered. Yeah. 00:17:26.309 --> 00:17:28.349 For us. And, you know, it's written and directed 00:17:28.349 --> 00:17:30.430 by David Cronenberg, who is a little bit weird 00:17:30.430 --> 00:17:33.769 anyway. Yeah. He's known for creating fairly 00:17:33.769 --> 00:17:37.410 weird cinema and kind of uncomfortable cinema 00:17:37.410 --> 00:17:40.710 and disturbing in that quite understated way. 00:17:41.609 --> 00:17:46.230 So I can see it. If I didn't know that, you kind 00:17:46.230 --> 00:17:48.950 of said, who do you think directed that? David 00:17:48.950 --> 00:17:50.710 Cronenberg would have been on the list. Yeah. 00:17:51.089 --> 00:17:56.950 You know? But, yeah. so Elias Koteas I really 00:17:56.950 --> 00:17:59.690 liked excellent in the movie what about you what 00:17:59.690 --> 00:18:02.029 did you like about it I liked it mix and it's 00:18:02.029 --> 00:18:03.509 been the opposite of what happened to me with 00:18:03.509 --> 00:18:05.569 pillion where I came out of it not really liking 00:18:05.569 --> 00:18:08.250 it and the longer I went from it the more I disliked 00:18:08.250 --> 00:18:10.250 it The opposite has happened with this, where 00:18:10.250 --> 00:18:12.670 at the time it was like, the pacing was a little 00:18:12.670 --> 00:18:14.450 bit slow for me. I would have liked a little 00:18:14.450 --> 00:18:16.289 bit more dialogue, a little bit more plot. So 00:18:16.289 --> 00:18:18.950 I did like it, but I had some criticisms. And 00:18:18.950 --> 00:18:20.650 the longer I've sat with it, the more it's made 00:18:20.650 --> 00:18:22.609 me think. And the more I realise it's occupying 00:18:22.609 --> 00:18:25.329 space in my brain rent -free for the last 24 00:18:25.329 --> 00:18:27.569 hours or so, the more I'm starting to like it. 00:18:28.349 --> 00:18:31.210 It's not a perfect movie. And I think my initial 00:18:31.210 --> 00:18:33.089 reaction of, I could have done with maybe a little 00:18:33.089 --> 00:18:35.299 bit less sex and a little bit more plot. still 00:18:35.299 --> 00:18:38.640 stands yeah but i respect it for what it is and 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.160 the ways that it's made me think and the parallels 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:43.839 i've started to draw between areas of kink and 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.160 sex that interest me and how people sexuality 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:49.240 was portrayed in that movie i find really really 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:53.000 interesting i like it when a movie makes me actually 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:54.740 think about it and kind of work for it a little 00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:56.279 bit rather than just being easy entertainment 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:58.140 sometimes and this definitely fits into that 00:18:58.140 --> 00:19:00.740 box yeah i think that's I think that's fair. 00:19:00.859 --> 00:19:02.880 And I think as I've thought about it and we talked 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.160 about what we wanted to talk about today, I probably 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:11.680 have softened a little bit. I'm not going to 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:14.519 go and watch it again unless somebody says, oh, 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:15.880 let's watch a movie. What do you want to watch? 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.619 Oh, I really want to watch Crash. It's one of 00:19:18.619 --> 00:19:21.380 the best movies I've ever seen. I think I would 00:19:21.380 --> 00:19:23.519 probably tolerate it in that situation, but I'm 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:25.839 not going to go and watch it again. But I guess 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:28.220 the more distance that I've got from the experience 00:19:28.220 --> 00:19:30.269 of watching it, I'm going. Okay, yeah, I get 00:19:30.269 --> 00:19:32.890 it. I see what you're doing. I see what you're 00:19:32.890 --> 00:19:39.170 trying to put across. And I suspect that the 00:19:39.170 --> 00:19:42.250 dullness of it was deliberate. Yeah. The pacing 00:19:42.250 --> 00:19:44.789 of it would have been deliberate, the flat nature 00:19:44.789 --> 00:19:46.309 of the characters. You don't really know very 00:19:46.309 --> 00:19:48.009 much about them. You don't really care about 00:19:48.009 --> 00:19:49.829 them in a way that you would expect to when you 00:19:49.829 --> 00:19:52.089 watch a movie. That's probably deliberate. Yeah. 00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:58.220 You know, quite aloof people for a reason. So 00:19:58.220 --> 00:20:01.759 I think respect is a really good word. I can 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:07.299 respect the art of it without particularly enjoying 00:20:07.299 --> 00:20:11.940 it. Yeah, I definitely picked up that the feel 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:14.140 of it was very deliberate and it was meant to 00:20:14.140 --> 00:20:17.299 feel, I think. like a sort of desensitization 00:20:17.299 --> 00:20:21.259 experience yeah um where the characters are as 00:20:21.259 --> 00:20:23.500 they're becoming more aroused by the the violence 00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:25.599 and destruction they're also becoming desensitized 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.480 to it which is why you see the escalation and 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.279 it feels like the movie tried to sort of draw 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.799 us in to experience that with them by having 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:33.519 you become desensitized to it you know the first 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:35.559 car crash you see on screen it makes you jump 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:37.759 a little bit it's shocking by the end of the 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:39.759 movie car crashes are just what happening and 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:42.000 people fucking is what is happening and you stop 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.769 really feeling it Much as I said, it's filmed 00:20:44.769 --> 00:20:48.109 in a way that is filmed erotically. It's filmed 00:20:48.109 --> 00:20:50.710 as erotica. It is a very unerotic experience 00:20:50.710 --> 00:20:53.109 to watch it. And not just because getting off 00:20:53.109 --> 00:20:56.029 on car crashes is not most people's taste. It's 00:20:56.029 --> 00:20:58.349 because by the end of an hour and 40 minutes 00:20:58.349 --> 00:21:00.430 of movie, even if you were turned on by it at 00:21:00.430 --> 00:21:02.769 the start, you won't be by the end. It reminded 00:21:02.769 --> 00:21:05.789 me quite a lot of Nymphomaniac, which is a Lars 00:21:05.789 --> 00:21:09.089 von Trier film about a nymphomaniac. And that 00:21:09.089 --> 00:21:11.869 has, you know, on screen penetrative sex. They 00:21:11.869 --> 00:21:15.690 used like splicing of the footage between the 00:21:15.690 --> 00:21:17.609 actors and porn performers so that they could 00:21:17.609 --> 00:21:20.069 show actual penetrative sex in the movie. Right. 00:21:20.130 --> 00:21:22.109 And the first time you see that, it's like, eee, 00:21:22.170 --> 00:21:24.970 it's a bit spicy for a movie that isn't porn. 00:21:25.150 --> 00:21:27.210 Yeah, yeah. But by the end of it, it's a two 00:21:27.210 --> 00:21:29.589 volume movie. It's, I think when you total it 00:21:29.589 --> 00:21:31.609 up, it's about four hours. By the end of it, 00:21:31.670 --> 00:21:33.970 you are completely numb to it. And that's the 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:35.690 point because the character is as well by that 00:21:35.690 --> 00:21:37.910 point. And it feels like Crash was doing a similar 00:21:37.910 --> 00:21:40.950 thing. yeah i've never seen nymphomaniac i'd 00:21:40.950 --> 00:21:42.630 be interested to see it we should put that on 00:21:42.630 --> 00:21:47.549 the list of yeah weird weird sex films to talk 00:21:47.549 --> 00:21:49.150 about because i think that would be really interesting 00:21:49.150 --> 00:21:52.089 yeah and it's not it doesn't really fit kinky 00:21:52.089 --> 00:21:54.569 movie there's not a lot of kink in it even at 00:21:54.569 --> 00:21:58.849 a stretch but that sort of sexual obsession anger 00:21:58.849 --> 00:22:00.750 is an interesting one and it's i would be up 00:22:00.750 --> 00:22:03.029 for watching it again it's not necessarily an 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:04.650 enjoyable movie but it's a really interesting 00:22:04.650 --> 00:22:06.569 movie and again it makes you think because it's 00:22:06.569 --> 00:22:08.769 doing that trickery of putting you in the character's 00:22:08.769 --> 00:22:11.029 shoes by how desensitized you get to it yeah 00:22:11.029 --> 00:22:14.150 but that's another filmmaker who who does that 00:22:14.150 --> 00:22:15.950 sort of stuff really well and does it deliberately 00:22:15.950 --> 00:22:18.450 yeah you kind of know what you're i was gonna 00:22:18.450 --> 00:22:19.890 say you know what you're getting into you don't 00:22:19.890 --> 00:22:21.789 necessarily know what you're getting into you 00:22:21.789 --> 00:22:23.130 definitely don't know what you're getting into 00:22:23.130 --> 00:22:26.130 you know that you're about to experience something 00:22:26.130 --> 00:22:29.009 yeah And it's not necessarily going to be an 00:22:29.009 --> 00:22:32.470 overwhelmingly positive one. Yeah. You know, 00:22:32.490 --> 00:22:34.630 you're going to have some thoughts by the time 00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:36.190 you get to the end of a Lars von Trier movie. 00:22:36.430 --> 00:22:39.009 Definitely. In the same way that you do David 00:22:39.009 --> 00:22:40.890 Cronenberg movies. Yeah. I think my favourite 00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:42.670 of his that I've seen was Antichrist, but that 00:22:42.670 --> 00:22:44.670 one, like, it takes a lot for me to look away 00:22:44.670 --> 00:22:47.009 from screen. Yeah. I had to look away from Antichrist 00:22:47.009 --> 00:22:49.829 a fair few times. Like, that's a rough watch. 00:22:50.130 --> 00:22:51.829 Yeah. Good though. I think I've seen that one. 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.500 I think we're talking ourselves into a Lars von 00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:57.079 Trier binge, which probably won't be good for 00:22:57.079 --> 00:22:58.700 our mental health. We should talk about Crash 00:22:58.700 --> 00:23:02.019 some more. We probably should. I think one of 00:23:02.019 --> 00:23:04.759 the thoughts that I had when we finished watching 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:06.859 the movie that has definitely changed since we've 00:23:06.859 --> 00:23:09.940 talked about it afterwards is about the kink 00:23:09.940 --> 00:23:12.920 representation in this movie. I think I fell 00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:17.599 into the trap of, in a way that a lot of people 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.500 were offended by some of the other films that 00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:21.980 we've... talked about and and that we were offended 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:23.900 by some of the other films that we've talked 00:23:23.900 --> 00:23:27.200 about kind of fell into that trap of that is 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.460 not a realistic representation of kink but you 00:23:30.460 --> 00:23:32.279 actually had some really interesting perspectives 00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:35.079 on that that made me rethink that a little bit 00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:38.059 and go okay i see what they were doing in there 00:23:38.059 --> 00:23:41.400 yeah um why don't you why don't you tell us about 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:42.940 that yeah the other movies that we've talked 00:23:42.940 --> 00:23:45.059 about all those ones showing ds relationships 00:23:46.299 --> 00:23:48.259 people will take those as representation whether 00:23:48.259 --> 00:23:49.980 they're meant to be or not because they show 00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:53.059 something relatively realistic with you know 00:23:53.059 --> 00:23:55.140 creative license and inaccuracies and things 00:23:55.140 --> 00:23:57.519 but elements that you can relate to things like 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:00.279 you know the negotiation scene that you saw in 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:04.279 50 shades and the um way that a leather family 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:06.259 functions that you saw in pillion like there's 00:24:06.259 --> 00:24:08.839 those pieces of reality in there yeah so it becomes 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:11.490 quite confusing For people who don't know a lot 00:24:11.490 --> 00:24:13.690 about kink, if some of it's right and some of 00:24:13.690 --> 00:24:15.849 it's wrong, that's where the representation starts 00:24:15.849 --> 00:24:19.849 to, if it's not right, it's bad rep. And even 00:24:19.849 --> 00:24:21.910 secretary, you know, there are some consent issues 00:24:21.910 --> 00:24:25.569 there. Yeah. Where I feel like there's a few 00:24:25.569 --> 00:24:28.690 reasons why I didn't hold crash to the same standards. 00:24:29.509 --> 00:24:32.049 A big part of it for me is a really cool term 00:24:32.049 --> 00:24:34.910 that someone on Tumblr invented and which I find 00:24:34.910 --> 00:24:38.009 so useful to talk about is non -diegetic kink. 00:24:38.849 --> 00:24:42.119 Ooh. That sounds very science -y. Yes. First, 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.079 I'm going to credit the user because they absolutely 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:45.480 should get credit for making this up because 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.099 it's such a useful term. The user is tierlessrain 00:24:48.099 --> 00:24:51.579 on Tumblr. Okay. And they seem to come up with 00:24:51.579 --> 00:24:53.480 this a few years ago and I've seen it used in 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:55.359 other places now, but that... as best as i can 00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:57.720 tell is the source so the idea is like diegetic 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:01.000 is a term that is usually applied to elements 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:04.720 of a movie like music soundtrack sound engineering 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.019 that's that's done but also sometimes visual 00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:09.480 things like subtitles and credit sequences where 00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:12.200 if something is diegetic it means it's experienced 00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:15.079 by the characters so music playing on a radio 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.980 when a character is in their house yeah or uh 00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:20.660 you know a car crash that happens that the character 00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:23.160 hears from outside their window would be diegetic 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.000 sound where non -diegetic is just for the audience 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:28.539 and the character isn't aware of it so the soundtrack 00:25:28.539 --> 00:25:30.920 the the score you know music that's just playing 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:32.259 out of nowhere while the character's getting 00:25:32.259 --> 00:25:33.980 on with their day we can assume that they can't 00:25:33.980 --> 00:25:36.200 hear it yeah and those lines get blurred sometimes 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:38.579 depending on the style of the movie but that's 00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:41.240 that's a general idea yeah and you see that sometimes 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:43.140 where it starts out as soundtrack but then it 00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:45.140 zooms in on the scene and it's on the radio yeah 00:25:45.140 --> 00:25:47.660 exactly yeah so that's where there's the crossover 00:25:47.660 --> 00:25:50.140 between the two yeah um so if you apply that 00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:53.349 to kink diegetic kink would be kink that the 00:25:53.349 --> 00:25:57.150 characters know is kinky so christian gray and 00:25:57.150 --> 00:26:00.450 uh anastasia steel getting into the red room 00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:03.089 and him tying her up that's diegetic kink they 00:26:03.089 --> 00:26:05.529 know that they're doing it and so when that is 00:26:05.529 --> 00:26:08.369 shown people will assume that because the characters 00:26:08.369 --> 00:26:10.170 know they're doing it that it's probably right 00:26:10.170 --> 00:26:13.170 yeah non -diegetic kink would be more that the 00:26:13.170 --> 00:26:15.900 audience might experience it or is intended to 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:17.940 experience in a kinky way but the characters 00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:21.019 don't know that it's kinky so that would be rather 00:26:21.019 --> 00:26:23.539 than a negotiated consensual non -consent scene 00:26:23.539 --> 00:26:26.640 in a smutty novel yeah you show a non -consensual 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:29.019 scene in the novel because the characters don't 00:26:29.019 --> 00:26:30.920 need to consent because they don't exist yeah 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:32.779 the characters don't need to negotiate we don't 00:26:32.779 --> 00:26:34.279 even need to worry about their physical safety 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:35.839 because we can break the rules of medical science 00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:38.920 if we want to but the person reading it is experiencing 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.140 it as a fantasy because they get off on that 00:26:41.140 --> 00:26:45.410 fantasy Yep. So most of the stuff that I like 00:26:45.410 --> 00:26:49.809 in erotic writing is non -diegetic kink. I don't 00:26:49.809 --> 00:26:51.589 want to read the characters negotiating for two 00:26:51.589 --> 00:26:53.789 chapters about how to do a consensual non -consent 00:26:53.789 --> 00:26:56.509 scene. I just want to see someone get tortured 00:26:56.509 --> 00:26:58.529 and sexually assaulted because that's the fantasy. 00:26:58.710 --> 00:27:02.170 It's a fantasy that is, no one's consent is actually 00:27:02.170 --> 00:27:04.250 being violated because that lives in my head. 00:27:04.289 --> 00:27:05.930 So I'm consenting to be involved in it and the 00:27:05.930 --> 00:27:09.609 people doing it aren't real. And I think that 00:27:09.609 --> 00:27:13.680 Crash, even though it is, diegetic fetishism 00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:15.359 because the characters know they have a fetish 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.720 that they're indulging in yeah because it's so 00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:20.319 far removed from reality it starts to cross over 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:22.880 a little bit where you can experience the movie 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.839 as an insight into desire and eroticism and perversion 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.460 without holding it up to the standards of these 00:27:29.460 --> 00:27:31.670 people are teaching me how to do it Because it's 00:27:31.670 --> 00:27:33.309 common sense that a movie is not going to set 00:27:33.309 --> 00:27:35.089 out to teach you how to crash cars to get yourself 00:27:35.089 --> 00:27:38.470 off. Yeah. We know that. Yeah. And when you explained 00:27:38.470 --> 00:27:40.029 that to me, I immediately thought of something 00:27:40.029 --> 00:27:42.730 else that I'd seen that probably on Tumblr. And 00:27:42.730 --> 00:27:44.630 I can't credit the person who said it, but it 00:27:44.630 --> 00:27:46.349 was like somebody in a film studies class saying 00:27:46.349 --> 00:27:49.950 it is unreasonable to expect the characters to 00:27:49.950 --> 00:27:52.849 know what genre of film they're in. Yeah. That's 00:27:52.849 --> 00:27:55.390 why people in horror movies go down into the 00:27:55.390 --> 00:27:58.569 dark, dark, unlit cellar. Because they don't 00:27:58.569 --> 00:28:00.269 know there's a serial killer down there. Because 00:28:00.269 --> 00:28:03.210 why would they? Yeah, and they'll read out some 00:28:03.210 --> 00:28:05.430 weird Latin script in a book that looks like 00:28:05.430 --> 00:28:07.930 it's suspiciously printed on human skin. Because 00:28:07.930 --> 00:28:10.190 why would they assume that that's real? They 00:28:10.190 --> 00:28:13.130 don't know they're in a horror movie. It's very 00:28:13.130 --> 00:28:16.130 much that the characters are existing in their 00:28:16.130 --> 00:28:18.230 own little bubble and we're existing in ours. 00:28:18.589 --> 00:28:21.190 And they're being presented to us to, in the 00:28:21.190 --> 00:28:24.160 case of smut writing, it's to... to be sexy for 00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:26.299 us. In the case of something like Crash, it's 00:28:26.299 --> 00:28:28.000 more to make us think and give us some insight 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:30.299 into an element of the human condition presented 00:28:30.299 --> 00:28:32.880 in a way that's dialed up well beyond reality. 00:28:33.380 --> 00:28:36.839 Yeah, yeah. I think it connects to me with the 00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:39.480 idea that we have talked about on previous episodes 00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:41.799 about that kind of bubble of amorality, I suppose. 00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:45.359 That idea that exploring kink allows you to suspend 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.980 the normal rules of morality and exist in this 00:28:48.980 --> 00:28:53.220 fucked up little bubble. Yeah. Because part of 00:28:53.220 --> 00:28:57.900 the issue that I had with Crash when we watched 00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:00.640 it was there's a scene where they encounter a 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:02.799 car crash that has nothing to do with them. And 00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:05.779 it is a really quite bad car crash. And they 00:29:05.779 --> 00:29:08.440 drive past it really, really slowly. They get 00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:11.859 out of the car and they wander among the wreckage 00:29:11.859 --> 00:29:15.380 and the people who are being treated to and in 00:29:15.380 --> 00:29:17.319 quite bad shape in some ways. They're taking 00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:20.619 really close up photos of what's happened. And 00:29:20.619 --> 00:29:26.900 immediately in my head, that took me into, you 00:29:26.900 --> 00:29:29.920 are sexualizing other people's trauma without 00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:32.859 their permission. You are invading into this 00:29:32.859 --> 00:29:35.900 space which you do not belong in just so you 00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:40.059 can get off. And I think in the quote unquote 00:29:40.059 --> 00:29:44.059 normal kink world, people quite rightly have 00:29:44.059 --> 00:29:47.269 a really strong reaction to that. You don't involve 00:29:47.269 --> 00:29:49.250 people who don't know that it's kink in your 00:29:49.250 --> 00:29:52.329 kinks. Yeah. Kind of thing. It's like, and it 00:29:52.329 --> 00:29:54.670 doesn't have to be grotesquely kind of walking 00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:56.769 among a car crash. It's flashing in the supermarket 00:29:56.769 --> 00:30:00.410 aisle. Yeah. Is in the same category of that. 00:30:00.650 --> 00:30:03.569 So I think I had that reaction to it when I was 00:30:03.569 --> 00:30:05.910 watching it of being quite judgmental of it and 00:30:05.910 --> 00:30:08.470 going, that's bad representation of kink. People 00:30:08.470 --> 00:30:10.430 who watch this are going to think that this is 00:30:10.430 --> 00:30:14.269 what fetishists and kinky people do. That's not 00:30:14.269 --> 00:30:17.470 true and it's not fair. but actually what's happening 00:30:17.470 --> 00:30:19.109 on the screen is kind of existing in a parallel 00:30:19.109 --> 00:30:21.589 world. Yeah, and I feel like that scene is a 00:30:21.589 --> 00:30:24.450 really good example of how that's actually, in 00:30:24.450 --> 00:30:25.970 my opinion, at least made quite clear by the 00:30:25.970 --> 00:30:27.630 movie, because that scene, not only would it 00:30:27.630 --> 00:30:30.809 be wildly unethical in real life, it also wouldn't 00:30:30.809 --> 00:30:33.269 work in real life. This is a multi -car pile 00:30:33.269 --> 00:30:35.529 -up. The police are there, fire crew are there, 00:30:35.589 --> 00:30:37.970 there's multiple victims, majority of whom are 00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:39.869 conscious and aware of what's happening to some 00:30:39.869 --> 00:30:42.859 extent, a little bit dazed. If you and a bunch 00:30:42.859 --> 00:30:45.220 of your mates wandered into that, started taking 00:30:45.220 --> 00:30:47.819 pictures, started lovingly caressing the burning 00:30:47.819 --> 00:30:50.779 cars. Yeah, yeah. Someone would stop you or at 00:30:50.779 --> 00:30:52.960 least tell you get the fuck out of my face. Yeah. 00:30:53.259 --> 00:30:55.440 So the fact that they're completely unchallenged 00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:57.740 throughout that entire sequence kind of shows 00:30:57.740 --> 00:30:59.819 like we are not supposed to be seeing reality 00:30:59.819 --> 00:31:03.279 here. We're seeing a fantasy in that bubble. 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:06.140 Yeah. And that makes sense. And I think part 00:31:06.140 --> 00:31:08.240 of my reaction was why aren't they being stopped? 00:31:08.500 --> 00:31:12.259 Yeah. Like this just wouldn't happen. That wouldn't 00:31:12.259 --> 00:31:13.579 be allowed to happen. People would stop them. 00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:15.019 People would be shooing them away. They probably 00:31:15.019 --> 00:31:16.940 couldn't even drive past it in the way that they 00:31:16.940 --> 00:31:19.519 did. Yeah, it's quite far from reality. And there's 00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:21.299 a few scenes like that. I would say like the 00:31:21.299 --> 00:31:25.619 first stunt car crash that they put on. Yeah. 00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:27.519 The police interrupt that. The police turn up. 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.339 Siren's going. And then everyone just sort of 00:31:30.339 --> 00:31:32.980 calmly walks away. from the scene yeah there's 00:31:32.980 --> 00:31:34.859 not a lot of panicked running one of the characters 00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:36.960 is in two leg braces and is sort of hobbling 00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:39.480 yeah i think even the the main character james 00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:41.299 at that point has only recently come out of hospital 00:31:41.299 --> 00:31:44.019 so his leg isn't working very well yeah and they 00:31:44.019 --> 00:31:46.660 just stroll away from the scene where they have 00:31:46.660 --> 00:31:49.039 just staged a car crash and the police have now 00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:51.039 pulled up to find out what the fuck's going on 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:52.900 yeah they would have been chased and they're 00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:57.339 not There's the part where Vaughn is in the hospital 00:31:57.339 --> 00:32:00.180 and comes and accosts James and takes loads of 00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:02.259 photos and is, like you said, practically licking 00:32:02.259 --> 00:32:04.700 his leg. Yeah. He probably wouldn't have got 00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:06.779 away with that. Probably someone would have stopped 00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:08.400 him. So there's a few points through the movie 00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.859 where it sort of gives you that little bit of 00:32:09.859 --> 00:32:13.019 a sign. We're not showing you a realistic depiction 00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:15.559 of fetishism here. What we're showing you is 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:18.779 like a sort of what -if world where perversion 00:32:18.779 --> 00:32:21.079 is completely unchecked and people can pursue 00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:24.240 this to its extreme conclusions. Yeah. Yeah. 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:26.660 And I think it's one of the things that I was 00:32:26.660 --> 00:32:30.480 curious, looking at, like side -eyeing curiously, 00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:33.180 I suppose. There's a few scenes where they're 00:32:33.180 --> 00:32:35.559 in medical settings, they're in hospitals, and 00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:38.460 there's nobody around. Yeah. There's nobody else 00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:42.829 in this entire ward. and kind of you know there's 00:32:42.829 --> 00:32:44.670 no nurses there's no patients there's no it's 00:32:44.670 --> 00:32:47.650 it's empty and and again kind of at first i was 00:32:47.650 --> 00:32:49.390 like well that's just silly isn't it but actually 00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:51.849 i suppose it's that's like a visual representation 00:32:51.849 --> 00:32:55.109 of how fetish feels it's like the world doesn't 00:32:55.109 --> 00:32:58.089 exist yeah there is nothing else other than what's 00:32:58.089 --> 00:33:00.269 going on right now in this moment for a kind 00:33:00.269 --> 00:33:02.589 of for a fetishist yeah so that's what i mean 00:33:02.589 --> 00:33:04.730 when i kind of say my my thoughts about it have 00:33:04.730 --> 00:33:07.750 kind of shifted a little bit where i've stared 00:33:07.750 --> 00:33:10.549 at a wall and gone okay yeah that okay that makes 00:33:10.549 --> 00:33:13.250 sense i'll buy that just did a really dull movie 00:33:13.250 --> 00:33:17.269 but i buy it yeah kind of thing and i'm not offended 00:33:17.269 --> 00:33:19.609 by it in quite the way that i was when i watched 00:33:19.609 --> 00:33:21.809 it and had that kind of immediate like visceral 00:33:21.809 --> 00:33:24.109 reaction to it going why do people why do people 00:33:24.109 --> 00:33:26.430 hold this up as a good example of kink adjacent 00:33:26.430 --> 00:33:29.690 fetish adjacent movies when it's committing the 00:33:29.690 --> 00:33:32.890 same crimes that 50 shades secretary pillion 00:33:32.890 --> 00:33:35.619 baby girl committed I think part of it as well 00:33:35.619 --> 00:33:38.480 is it helps that the fetish that Crash is showing, 00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:41.039 it does have a name, but I'm not necessarily 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.839 convinced that it has any people who actually 00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:44.359 have it because I've not been able to find any 00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:47.440 evidence. It's called Symphorophilia, which is 00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:50.720 the fetish for witnessing, creating, or being 00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:53.480 involved in disasters. Right. So not just car 00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:55.880 crashes, it could be other things as well. Like 00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:58.980 I said, that term exists, but... I wouldn't be 00:33:58.980 --> 00:34:00.859 entirely surprised if it exists because of the 00:34:00.859 --> 00:34:02.380 movie or because of the book that came before 00:34:02.380 --> 00:34:06.619 it. I have searched and everything I could find 00:34:06.619 --> 00:34:09.659 on Reddit and various other websites was people 00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:11.820 asking, does it actually exist? Or people asking, 00:34:11.900 --> 00:34:14.059 what does the word mean? But no one saying like, 00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:16.239 I have this or I found out my loved one has this. 00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:19.440 I searched on FetLife to see if anyone lists 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.019 it as a fetish and 18 people do, which is not 00:34:22.019 --> 00:34:24.800 a lot in the grand scheme of things. I would 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:27.260 be willing to bet money that at least 17 of them 00:34:27.260 --> 00:34:51.829 are big fans. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. In the way that 00:34:51.829 --> 00:34:53.530 happens in the movie. That is literally what 00:34:53.530 --> 00:34:57.010 happens in the movie. Yeah. So it's not like 00:34:57.010 --> 00:35:00.070 this movie is representing how anyone is engaging 00:35:00.070 --> 00:35:03.329 in a fetish. Yeah. Or if there is anyone engaging 00:35:03.329 --> 00:35:07.010 in it in that way, it is one guy. Yeah. So it's 00:35:07.010 --> 00:35:09.210 not representing a community in the way that 00:35:09.210 --> 00:35:11.329 a lot of these movies are. Yeah, true. Now that 00:35:11.329 --> 00:35:13.329 we've said it, this is where the podcast breaks 00:35:13.329 --> 00:35:15.489 containment and we get contacted by thousands 00:35:15.489 --> 00:35:19.429 of people who are Sim 4 affiliate. Yes. I mean, 00:35:19.469 --> 00:35:21.070 if you are, tell us. We're fascinated. We exist. 00:35:21.550 --> 00:35:24.210 Yeah. And tell us how you feel about Crash. Is 00:35:24.210 --> 00:35:26.690 it good representation? Yeah, yeah. Also, you 00:35:26.690 --> 00:35:32.349 guys really need to learn about Rack. Yeah. Yeah, 00:35:32.409 --> 00:35:35.130 you are valid. Your kinks and your fetishes are 00:35:35.130 --> 00:35:40.769 valid, but maybe take a class. But you have experience 00:35:40.769 --> 00:35:46.179 of someone who, at least on paper, or on... The 00:35:46.179 --> 00:35:49.460 internet has an adjacent kink? Yes, so not car 00:35:49.460 --> 00:35:52.500 crashes, but I had a message about three years 00:35:52.500 --> 00:35:55.280 ago, I think. And I found out since that this 00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:57.860 poor guy, he is sending it to everyone. Lydia's 00:35:57.860 --> 00:36:00.420 had this message. Someone else Lydia knows has 00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:02.679 had this message. Like he is going round everyone 00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:04.920 and asking them this because it's a very, very 00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.099 niche fantasy. And I imagine he's going to struggle 00:36:07.099 --> 00:36:09.059 to find someone to do it because it's not safe. 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:11.400 But yeah, I had a message from someone asking 00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:14.179 me if he could stand against some sort of padded 00:36:14.179 --> 00:36:16.199 wall, like maybe a mattress against a wall, he 00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:18.300 might have said. Yeah. And for me to drive my 00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:21.059 car very, very slowly and very, very gently, 00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:23.940 he specifically asked, into. him and crush him 00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:28.739 against it right um so i think that's more along 00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:30.679 the lines of like crushing fetishes but he very 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:32.900 specifically wanted it to be a car yeah yeah 00:36:32.900 --> 00:36:34.559 barking up the wrong tree with me i don't have 00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:36.820 a car i don't have a driving license yeah i do 00:36:36.820 --> 00:36:38.420 not have the skills to be driving a car very 00:36:38.420 --> 00:36:40.340 slowly and very gently into anybody he would 00:36:40.340 --> 00:36:43.860 have died no no and that is quite a skill to 00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:49.989 be fair to drive it that slowly is It would be 00:36:49.989 --> 00:36:52.230 quite hard to do, I think, without... Like you'd 00:36:52.230 --> 00:36:54.190 need a... Sorry, you've set me off thinking about 00:36:54.190 --> 00:36:56.849 the practicalities of it now. You would need 00:36:56.849 --> 00:36:59.090 a bit of a run -up, I think, because I drive 00:36:59.090 --> 00:37:01.150 an electric car, so it's like driving a fucking 00:37:01.150 --> 00:37:03.030 go -kart. You put your foot down and the car 00:37:03.030 --> 00:37:06.230 goes. So you would have to start and then slow 00:37:06.230 --> 00:37:08.909 down. Yeah. Because you're going to have that 00:37:08.909 --> 00:37:12.889 jerk when the car takes off, like you do. So 00:37:12.889 --> 00:37:14.489 you're going to have to have enough time to kind 00:37:14.489 --> 00:37:17.769 of get over that. peak of any pressure on the 00:37:17.769 --> 00:37:19.989 accelerator makes it go and then slow it down 00:37:19.989 --> 00:37:22.369 slow enough so that you you are gently caressing 00:37:22.369 --> 00:37:27.590 his chins presumably um god that person's gonna 00:37:27.590 --> 00:37:29.070 listen to this and get in touch with me because 00:37:29.070 --> 00:37:32.170 i've just worked out how to do it yeah yeah you're 00:37:32.170 --> 00:37:34.869 gonna be the next recipient of the message and 00:37:34.869 --> 00:37:37.329 like i don't want to i don't want to defend someone 00:37:37.329 --> 00:37:40.010 who is spam messaging everyone probably everyone 00:37:40.010 --> 00:37:42.639 who they think is a woman with a very direct 00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.559 message asking them to just dispense a kink for 00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:48.420 them that's not good kink etiquette it's it's 00:37:48.420 --> 00:37:50.760 bordering on harassment yeah the only reason 00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:52.360 i'm saying bordering on is as far as i know he 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:54.539 only ever messaged anyone once he's not pestering 00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:57.340 but it's not good behavior and women particularly 00:37:57.340 --> 00:37:59.960 get so many messages of people asking them to 00:37:59.960 --> 00:38:02.480 fulfill specific sexual fantasies it's it's really 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:05.599 gross um but i do feel a little bit sorry for 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.309 people who have really specific desires like 00:38:08.309 --> 00:38:10.730 that yeah because probably the reason he's doing 00:38:10.730 --> 00:38:13.210 that is because how else has he got even a one 00:38:13.210 --> 00:38:14.710 in a million chance of finding someone who's 00:38:14.710 --> 00:38:16.869 willing to do it yeah if he blasts that message 00:38:16.869 --> 00:38:18.550 out to everyone that he's vaguely interested 00:38:18.550 --> 00:38:21.289 in yeah the possibility is that one of them will 00:38:21.289 --> 00:38:22.769 be like oh my god i've always wanted to do that 00:38:22.769 --> 00:38:24.809 to someone let's go yeah and that'll be why he's 00:38:24.809 --> 00:38:26.510 engaging in it i think it must be hard if you 00:38:26.510 --> 00:38:29.250 do have something really unusual like that yeah 00:38:29.250 --> 00:38:32.869 yeah you can it's not okay but you can see why 00:38:32.869 --> 00:38:34.349 he's doing it he's playing the law of averages 00:38:34.349 --> 00:38:38.050 yeah like yeah someone someone somewhere will 00:38:38.050 --> 00:38:40.710 say yes which is quite sad when you think about 00:38:40.710 --> 00:38:44.590 it from that person's perspective it's like if 00:38:44.590 --> 00:38:47.550 that's the one thing that you want to do and 00:38:47.550 --> 00:38:49.889 you'll feel fulfilled not being able to do it 00:38:49.889 --> 00:38:52.860 it's going to be really hard yeah and a better 00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:55.280 approach for things like that specific is to 00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:57.480 approach professionals but it's entirely possible 00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:59.639 he has because i imagine a lot of pro doms would 00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:02.059 not want to risk their career and their reputation 00:39:02.059 --> 00:39:04.719 and potentially risk going to prison to drive 00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:06.800 a car into someone like that's probably going 00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.780 to be a hard no from most yeah yeah i can't imagine 00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:12.380 many pro doms have public liability insurance 00:39:12.380 --> 00:39:14.800 that would cover or personal injury insurance 00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:18.559 that would cover blow back from that no definitely 00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:22.659 not no Something you mentioned earlier as we 00:39:22.659 --> 00:39:24.840 were talking about your initial reaction to the 00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:26.780 film and you starting to come around to some 00:39:26.780 --> 00:39:28.940 of the ideas in it, at least even if not necessarily 00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:31.820 the movie viewing experience. Yes. You mentioned 00:39:31.820 --> 00:39:34.699 that it's got some interesting ideas about the 00:39:34.699 --> 00:39:36.780 intersection of technology and sex. So I thought 00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:39.300 I'd let you talk about that one. Yeah, I think 00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:41.440 so. Well, technology is part of it, I think. 00:39:41.460 --> 00:39:44.500 But the movie is set in Toronto. I don't know 00:39:44.500 --> 00:39:46.500 why it's set in Toronto. This is the advantage 00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:48.360 of using it twice. I had no idea where it was 00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:50.269 set. I didn't pick up on that. The only reason, 00:39:50.369 --> 00:39:54.070 very, very sad little reason. The only reason 00:39:54.070 --> 00:39:57.769 I know it was set in Canada is that there's a 00:39:57.769 --> 00:39:59.449 scene in it where there's a service station in 00:39:59.449 --> 00:40:01.369 the background. And the service station is an 00:40:01.369 --> 00:40:04.909 ESO station. And they only have them in Canada, 00:40:05.030 --> 00:40:07.909 in North America. They're not in the United States. 00:40:09.250 --> 00:40:11.010 It's a different brand in the United States. 00:40:11.210 --> 00:40:14.250 Great piece of trivia. Thank you. Because many, 00:40:14.329 --> 00:40:17.230 many years ago, when I was very young. university 00:40:17.230 --> 00:40:19.969 student. I worked for ESO on a placement, so 00:40:19.969 --> 00:40:21.989 I knew that it was in Canada, and then I googled 00:40:21.989 --> 00:40:26.650 it, and I got it's in Toronto. But it's quite 00:40:26.650 --> 00:40:29.989 a bleak setting. You know, the apartment that 00:40:29.989 --> 00:40:32.309 Catherine and James live in kind of overlooks 00:40:32.309 --> 00:40:36.570 a massive freeway. There's a really strong message 00:40:36.570 --> 00:40:38.750 in it, which I quite liked, about urban alienation, 00:40:38.829 --> 00:40:41.489 and kind of that's why they're quite flat people. 00:40:41.809 --> 00:40:44.630 They're just kind of drudging through their life. 00:40:45.500 --> 00:40:47.360 Even though, to be fair, he has quite an interesting 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:50.380 job. He is a movie producer. Yeah. But even when 00:40:50.380 --> 00:40:53.139 he's doing that, he looks bored. He looks completely 00:40:53.139 --> 00:40:56.159 uninterested. They are not massively interested 00:40:56.159 --> 00:41:00.119 in each other. Really, you don't get any sense 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.260 that they actually give a shit about each other. 00:41:02.300 --> 00:41:04.739 The sex they have is quite normal. I think all 00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:07.420 of the sex in it. That's why I said it's not 00:41:07.420 --> 00:41:12.420 really kind of very spicy in that way. It's all 00:41:12.420 --> 00:41:15.340 quite impersonal. It's all quite awkward. Sex 00:41:15.340 --> 00:41:18.900 in cars. I can't do it. I'm too tall for it. 00:41:19.940 --> 00:41:21.599 I did have that thought as we were watching it. 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:23.800 It's like, we could not do any of this. You're 00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:27.239 six foot five. I'm five foot ten. We could not. 00:41:27.380 --> 00:41:29.489 No, we couldn't do it. And there was, I don't 00:41:29.489 --> 00:41:31.429 think it was intended to be funny, but it was 00:41:31.429 --> 00:41:35.889 a comedic moment for me when the character of 00:41:35.889 --> 00:41:38.829 James was trying to have sex in a car with a 00:41:38.829 --> 00:41:40.670 character I think played by Rosanna Arquette, 00:41:40.849 --> 00:41:44.090 who is in double leg braces. And it's just fucking 00:41:44.090 --> 00:41:46.789 awkward. Like this woman cannot bend her legs 00:41:46.789 --> 00:41:49.530 because of the braces. So how do you manoeuvre 00:41:49.530 --> 00:41:52.190 that to have sex in the back of a car? And it 00:41:52.190 --> 00:41:54.110 wasn't intended to be funny, but I couldn't help 00:41:54.110 --> 00:41:58.260 but go, that's quite funny. So there's this really 00:41:58.260 --> 00:42:04.059 kind of flat, alienated, impersonal tone. And 00:42:04.059 --> 00:42:07.860 then you add on top of that the role that technology 00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:11.920 plays in our life, but what role technology plays 00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:14.539 in these people's sex lives. Because it's all 00:42:14.539 --> 00:42:19.280 about the machine of the car. Vaughn's really 00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:21.699 interested in all of the pins that are in James's 00:42:21.699 --> 00:42:28.260 leg. That kind of... melding of human and non 00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:32.239 -human elements to it and it's just a really 00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:34.739 fascinating thing to think about kind of how 00:42:34.739 --> 00:42:39.440 how in that movie technology in the form of cars 00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:43.739 is so central to these people's sexuality And 00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:46.159 Vaughan explains that really well in the two 00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:48.159 minutes of meaningful dialogue that exists in 00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:50.500 the entire movie. He kind of sets all of that 00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:53.699 out. It's about this combination of human beings 00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:56.539 and technology and how people like James Dean 00:42:56.539 --> 00:42:58.920 and Jane Mansfield, who died in horrific car 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:01.539 crashes, kind of achieved the ultimate release, 00:43:01.659 --> 00:43:04.039 the ultimate combination of those two things 00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:08.780 for him. Yeah. And it's just a really fascinating 00:43:08.780 --> 00:43:10.980 thing to think about. given that this film came 00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:14.480 out in 1996. So the peak of technology that people 00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:17.280 interacted with was probably cars, fairly shit 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:21.039 computers, you know, in their everyday life. 00:43:21.420 --> 00:43:27.659 But you fast forward 30 years and you think about 00:43:27.659 --> 00:43:29.920 the role that technology plays in our intimate 00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:32.119 lives and our sex lives now. You think, shit, 00:43:32.179 --> 00:43:35.539 actually, that was a prophetic dystopian novel. 00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:37.840 Bear in mind the book that it was based out came 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:42.920 out in the 70s. Yeah. you know so it's just it's 00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:44.559 dead interesting to think about that kind of 00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:47.260 relationship between people and technology and 00:43:47.260 --> 00:43:49.679 how it affects our intimacy and our sex life 00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:53.760 yeah i completely agree um because it's i feel 00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:55.900 like the the film and i i assume the book it's 00:43:55.900 --> 00:43:58.920 based on were seeing that in a very critical 00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:02.960 way and it was a warning like yeah but i think 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:07.159 our sort of integration with technology is both 00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:09.340 the ultimate form of like beyond body horror 00:44:09.340 --> 00:44:13.400 it's like identity horror yeah but also it's 00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:15.940 really cool as a reflection on how adaptable 00:44:15.940 --> 00:44:18.800 humans are that our sexuality is so shaped by 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:20.599 what we consider to be our natural environment 00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:22.820 and when your natural environment is full of 00:44:22.820 --> 00:44:25.820 technology you just seamlessly bring it in yeah 00:44:25.820 --> 00:44:28.239 think about some of the things we do like tracking 00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:30.500 my location only possible with technology using 00:44:30.500 --> 00:44:32.800 cameras those are things that maybe are less 00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:34.719 common in vanilla intimacy but a lot of people 00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:36.659 would have taken and sent nudes Or had phone 00:44:36.659 --> 00:44:39.639 sex. Yeah, yeah. Which again is something that 00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:42.219 just becomes not only an option in your sex life, 00:44:42.260 --> 00:44:44.760 but often becomes a preference. People will develop 00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:48.380 specific desires for things like phone sex. Yeah. 00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:52.179 Because it's got a sort of a distance to it that 00:44:52.179 --> 00:44:55.659 can feel more intimate. Yeah. And well, like 00:44:55.659 --> 00:44:58.460 cyber sex generally, isn't it? Yeah. Like sexting 00:44:58.460 --> 00:45:00.780 and using online messaging apps. and stuff like 00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:04.179 that to do that as a way of getting off. And 00:45:04.179 --> 00:45:06.159 if you think back to when we did the episode 00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:07.980 about long -distance relationships three weeks 00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:10.960 ago, a lot of the ways that me and my ex -partner 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:13.940 managed that was by using technology, which just 00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:16.539 wouldn't have been possible 20 years ago. Definitely 00:45:16.539 --> 00:45:19.539 wouldn't have been possible in the 70s. No. Not 00:45:19.539 --> 00:45:23.360 just phone sex and sexting and things like that, 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:27.000 but spending time intimately together using technology 00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:30.190 as the medium, so Disney Plus on the TV. whatsapp 00:45:30.190 --> 00:45:33.570 voice call on my phone remote control sex toys 00:45:33.570 --> 00:45:38.429 all ways of enhancing our intimacy and maintaining 00:45:38.429 --> 00:45:40.570 our intimacy through the medium of technology 00:45:40.570 --> 00:45:42.849 and like you say kind of integrating that into 00:45:42.849 --> 00:45:45.909 our normal life yeah you know and even sorry 00:45:45.909 --> 00:45:48.650 i'm at risk of just pontificating here i like 00:45:48.650 --> 00:45:50.269 it but even going back a little bit further to 00:45:50.269 --> 00:45:52.969 the findom episode where one of the ways that 00:45:52.969 --> 00:45:54.989 we practice that in our dynamic is that i have 00:45:54.989 --> 00:45:57.670 access to your banking app and so i can i can 00:45:58.549 --> 00:46:01.289 reach in i can pick up your phone and and go 00:46:01.289 --> 00:46:02.869 into your banking app and take money out of your 00:46:02.869 --> 00:46:06.090 account which wouldn't have been possible 10 00:46:06.090 --> 00:46:09.789 years ago probably maybe was 10 years ago but 00:46:09.789 --> 00:46:11.130 10 years ago i think you could have probably 00:46:11.130 --> 00:46:13.489 done it on the computer on the big on the big 00:46:13.489 --> 00:46:17.369 internet yeah yeah um or kind of texting you 00:46:17.369 --> 00:46:19.809 and demanding money from you in in in the way 00:46:19.809 --> 00:46:22.250 that i do yeah kind of in line with our heavily 00:46:22.250 --> 00:46:25.329 negotiated very consensual very consensual dynamic 00:46:25.329 --> 00:46:30.820 um in a way that just wouldn't have been possible 00:46:30.820 --> 00:46:33.000 when the film came out absolutely not possible 00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:34.639 when the when the book came out kind of that 00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:37.920 again that kind of adapting to the technology 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:41.280 around us as a way of getting off yeah even thinking 00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:44.460 horrible like when you say it like that it's 00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:48.739 just awful i i genuinely don't think it is like 00:46:48.739 --> 00:46:51.780 i am i am suspicious of technology but i think 00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:54.219 it's also it is natural because it's created 00:46:54.219 --> 00:46:57.469 by us and we're animals it's as natural as anthills 00:46:57.469 --> 00:47:00.789 and we have made the world adapt to us and then 00:47:00.789 --> 00:47:03.090 we adapt to it in return and that feels like 00:47:03.090 --> 00:47:05.650 about the most natural thing there is but it's 00:47:05.650 --> 00:47:07.510 also really alarming when you see it happening 00:47:07.510 --> 00:47:09.309 at such a speed that you can look back in your 00:47:09.309 --> 00:47:11.989 lifetime and see the difference yeah i even think 00:47:11.989 --> 00:47:14.690 about things like online dating yeah like you 00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:17.400 You had experiences of online dating when it 00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:20.320 was like a text -based service that you would 00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:22.340 sort of sign up to and receive a text from someone. 00:47:22.579 --> 00:47:24.860 My first experience of online dating was through 00:47:24.860 --> 00:47:27.239 dating websites and they were really only used 00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:31.079 by big nerds. And now almost everyone meets their 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:34.099 partner through an app. Another generation and 00:47:34.099 --> 00:47:37.750 probably everyone will. And it's, I don't think 00:47:37.750 --> 00:47:39.690 that's a good thing or a bad thing. I think it's 00:47:39.690 --> 00:47:41.750 just interesting that one of the things that 00:47:41.750 --> 00:47:44.090 we will sort of adapt our way out of is the ability 00:47:44.090 --> 00:47:46.710 to meet a partner organically, just in person. 00:47:47.210 --> 00:47:49.389 I think already social norms are really starting 00:47:49.389 --> 00:47:51.789 to change around that because quite rightly women 00:47:51.789 --> 00:47:53.730 have started to point out how much they are sexually 00:47:53.730 --> 00:47:55.630 harassed in public and how much they do not fucking 00:47:55.630 --> 00:47:59.170 like it. But as those norms change, they become 00:47:59.170 --> 00:48:01.170 less and less acceptable ways to approach someone 00:48:01.170 --> 00:48:03.710 in a public place. And we have an alternative 00:48:03.710 --> 00:48:05.670 to it. So we don't need to try to find a way 00:48:05.670 --> 00:48:08.369 to, sort of adapt or preserve those so they just 00:48:08.369 --> 00:48:11.670 go and how we date changes yeah yeah no you're 00:48:11.670 --> 00:48:14.030 right i mean and that change in dating isn't 00:48:14.030 --> 00:48:16.489 even all that old like i remember what would 00:48:16.489 --> 00:48:19.329 it have been i moved up here in 2000 so probably 00:48:19.329 --> 00:48:28.210 2008 or 10 a kind of time um somebody on my team 00:48:28.210 --> 00:48:31.449 met their husband through a through a dating 00:48:31.449 --> 00:48:34.119 website And genuinely, I think it was the first 00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:35.880 person who had ever said that out loud to me. 00:48:36.019 --> 00:48:40.380 Yeah. You know? And there was no judgment about 00:48:40.380 --> 00:48:42.460 that. It was like, okay, that's a way that people 00:48:42.460 --> 00:48:48.400 meet. Cool. But they were the first person I 00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:51.900 can specifically remember just saying it out 00:48:51.900 --> 00:48:53.840 loud. Yeah. Yeah, this is how I met my partner. 00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:57.739 And that is 15 years ago, 16 years ago. Yeah. 00:48:58.380 --> 00:49:01.050 At most. You know, it's just nuts how that's 00:49:01.050 --> 00:49:03.170 changed in a relatively short space of time. 00:49:03.909 --> 00:49:07.449 What's terrifying to me is AI dating. Yes, don't 00:49:07.449 --> 00:49:11.909 like that. Horrible. I mean, I am anti -AI pretty 00:49:11.909 --> 00:49:15.510 much universally. You know, you can think about 00:49:15.510 --> 00:49:16.809 the different types of AI and some of them are 00:49:16.809 --> 00:49:20.690 less shit than others, but you know. I think 00:49:20.690 --> 00:49:22.530 it's the way that it's marketed that horrifies 00:49:22.530 --> 00:49:25.530 me. I'll be your AI girlfriend. I'll do anything 00:49:25.530 --> 00:49:30.139 you want. yeah like that's just really rapey 00:49:30.139 --> 00:49:34.940 isn't it i it is but as someone with rape fantasies 00:49:34.940 --> 00:49:38.119 not to defend ai but i think sometimes if you 00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:40.539 have fantasies that other people might not be 00:49:40.539 --> 00:49:42.579 particularly interested in there might be sort 00:49:42.579 --> 00:49:45.780 of risk associated with i can understand the 00:49:45.780 --> 00:49:49.079 market for a way to experience those in a way 00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:51.559 that doesn't involve another person because often 00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:54.300 the other person is the biggest barrier um I 00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:57.360 think the way that AI exists currently, and probably 00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:00.619 always will, based on just how it's been developed 00:50:00.619 --> 00:50:03.260 and the impact that it's having on people and 00:50:03.260 --> 00:50:05.380 the planet and the amount of stolen content that 00:50:05.380 --> 00:50:06.940 is going into train it and all of these issues, 00:50:07.099 --> 00:50:11.679 it's not the solution. But the desire to have 00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:14.420 your kink experiences happen with something that 00:50:14.420 --> 00:50:17.789 cannot be harmed by them. in itself i don't think 00:50:17.789 --> 00:50:19.869 is a bad desire it goes back to what we were 00:50:19.869 --> 00:50:22.489 saying about you know me enjoying erotica that 00:50:22.489 --> 00:50:24.889 has like non -consensual scenes and torture scenes 00:50:24.889 --> 00:50:27.130 and people getting murdered and things like that 00:50:27.130 --> 00:50:29.369 those are not things that i can do those are 00:50:29.369 --> 00:50:31.650 not things i can experience and and wouldn't 00:50:31.650 --> 00:50:34.150 want to experience but they are hot as a fantasy 00:50:34.150 --> 00:50:36.250 and that's a way of doing it that doesn't cause 00:50:36.250 --> 00:50:39.730 problems for me or anyone else no and i get that 00:50:39.730 --> 00:50:41.590 i suppose i'm a little bit more cynical about 00:50:42.139 --> 00:50:44.400 They're a bit more cynical about the motivations 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.420 of the people who would engage with AI in that 00:50:47.420 --> 00:50:51.300 way. And probably a little bit more cynical about 00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:54.900 the logical conclusion of that. You can just 00:50:54.900 --> 00:50:59.199 see the... And it's a really fine line, and it's 00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:01.360 why I'm kind of struggling to get it straight 00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:05.760 in my head, I suppose. But if someone who is 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:08.940 just a deeply misogynistic human wants to create 00:51:08.940 --> 00:51:12.380 an AI... so they can live their best misogynistic 00:51:12.380 --> 00:51:15.860 life on that AI person. I guess there is an argument 00:51:15.860 --> 00:51:18.380 which says better a computer than an actual person. 00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:22.420 But it is not a big leap to go from, well, I 00:51:22.420 --> 00:51:24.880 can do it to a computer so I can do it to a person. 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:26.719 I think that's the bit that really bothers me. 00:51:27.619 --> 00:51:31.059 Potentially walking our way into a situation 00:51:31.059 --> 00:51:33.360 where some of those norms that you talk about 00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:35.179 come back because it's like, well, it's fine. 00:51:35.960 --> 00:51:38.679 because i do it to the ai it's a it's a variation 00:51:38.679 --> 00:51:41.599 on what grok is capable of doing with people's 00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:44.579 photos it's a violation and what's really interesting 00:51:44.579 --> 00:51:48.440 sorry to get on the ai bandwagon what's really 00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:51.099 interesting is what happens at the point at which 00:51:51.099 --> 00:51:54.480 ai achieves consciousness yeah and then we end 00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:56.639 up with a situation that you see in films like 00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:58.840 ex machina where it's like okay so where's the 00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:01.420 where's the moral and ethical line here and and 00:52:01.420 --> 00:52:04.210 you know having to navigate all of that Yeah. 00:52:04.210 --> 00:52:07.250 Nonsense. I absolutely agree. I think the integration 00:52:07.250 --> 00:52:09.929 of technology into our lives is, I still think 00:52:09.929 --> 00:52:13.070 it's not ideal. Like I would prefer, even though 00:52:13.070 --> 00:52:14.610 I am a bit of a nerd, I would probably prefer 00:52:14.610 --> 00:52:17.670 a less integrated life, but it is the life that 00:52:17.670 --> 00:52:23.929 we've got. But I just fear for the future. Yeah, 00:52:23.949 --> 00:52:26.170 I think generative AI particularly is pretty 00:52:26.170 --> 00:52:30.320 concerning and I have some views on that. But 00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:33.940 I still, I'm not against technology because I 00:52:33.940 --> 00:52:37.239 do believe it's a very natural product of the 00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:39.559 type of creature that we are. Yeah. That's why 00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:42.820 we've got it. And if we didn't have technology, 00:52:43.059 --> 00:52:45.320 we would be missing a lot of our kinks. So it's 00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:47.579 interesting to see a movie that kind of covers 00:52:47.579 --> 00:52:49.480 that intersection of technology and sex, which 00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:51.820 is becoming so prevalent. Where so much of the 00:52:51.820 --> 00:52:54.840 ways that we're intimate, the ways that we enjoy 00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:57.179 sex, the way that we met each other twice. Yeah, 00:52:57.179 --> 00:52:59.980 yeah. all based in technology, and the way that 00:52:59.980 --> 00:53:01.719 our sexualities would probably be completely 00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:04.880 unrecognisable without it. Yeah, yeah. So it 00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:06.920 is surprising that a story that originally came 00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:09.059 from a book in the 70s sort of captured that. 00:53:09.139 --> 00:53:12.619 Captured that, yeah. But probably captured it 00:53:12.619 --> 00:53:17.039 in a slightly dystopian kind of way. Yeah. Like, 00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:21.480 this is bad, right? in the same way that you 00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:23.820 know the handmaid's tale is what happens you 00:53:23.820 --> 00:53:25.800 explained to me this to me the other day what 00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:28.280 happens if you take a fundamentalist religious 00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:30.639 approach which you see in other countries and 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:34.219 apply it to christian theocracy in america yeah 00:53:34.219 --> 00:53:36.739 fundamentally functionally no different from 00:53:36.739 --> 00:53:39.079 some of the things that are labeled as terrorist 00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:42.780 regimes in other parts of the world but actually 00:53:42.780 --> 00:53:45.179 you can absolutely see how christian nationalism 00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:47.179 would lead us to exactly the same thing Yeah. 00:53:47.340 --> 00:53:49.199 Because it's not the religion that's the issue 00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:50.860 there. It's the conservative theocracy. It's 00:53:50.860 --> 00:53:54.900 the people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, 00:53:54.940 --> 00:53:58.159 there's been a lot of stories told about, like, 00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:00.840 the dangers of technology and warning us about 00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:02.739 this sci -fi future where technology will be 00:54:02.739 --> 00:54:05.400 fucking us all up. Like Terminator. Yeah, yeah. 00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:07.860 We are now potentially living in that. Yeah, 00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:11.599 yeah. Not great. No. We don't heed warnings very 00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:13.460 well as a species. We like to try new things. 00:54:13.659 --> 00:54:15.980 No. And we see these movies and go, that's really 00:54:15.980 --> 00:54:19.159 cool. Let's do it. And that is what has happened 00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:23.000 in the post -crash era. Wasn't a fucking instruction 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:29.360 manual. Not a fucking TED Talk. We are literally 00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:32.159 just fuck around and find out the primate. Yeah, 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:38.440 yeah. Eventually. It's not like I'm some kind 00:54:38.440 --> 00:54:41.119 of Luddite who would prefer to be living in a 00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:44.099 pre -industrial agrarian economy. Apart from 00:54:44.099 --> 00:54:50.190 anything else, I wouldn't survive. But I wish 00:54:50.190 --> 00:54:54.110 the world was a little less... a little less 00:54:54.110 --> 00:54:56.849 connected, a little less reliant on technology. 00:54:57.110 --> 00:54:59.030 I think we would be better off. I will remind 00:54:59.030 --> 00:55:01.489 you of this conversation, which we have on record, 00:55:01.769 --> 00:55:03.670 next time you're considering paying through the 00:55:03.670 --> 00:55:05.730 nose for an early upgrade to get a shiny new 00:55:05.730 --> 00:55:10.010 phone mix. Yeah, I know. It is completely hypocritical. 00:55:11.809 --> 00:55:17.420 As Greta Thunberg... once said you can work within 00:55:17.420 --> 00:55:19.880 a system while also wanting to change the system. 00:55:20.059 --> 00:55:24.340 Yes. That is in fact necessary for survival. 00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:28.699 It is necessary for my survival to have the latest 00:55:28.699 --> 00:55:32.420 Samsung phone. I'm going to say something that's 00:55:32.420 --> 00:55:34.360 going to alarm you and make you want to wrap 00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:37.719 your nice red Hyundai and bubble wrap mix. Okay. 00:55:37.780 --> 00:55:42.420 I found this movie quite relatable. I am not 00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:46.389 hitting you with my car. Not because of the car. 00:55:47.230 --> 00:55:48.929 So I found there were some really interesting 00:55:48.929 --> 00:55:51.650 parallels for me between the people in this movie 00:55:51.650 --> 00:55:53.809 who are fetishising something that you should 00:55:53.809 --> 00:55:57.030 not be turned on by. Yeah. Categorically, pretty 00:55:57.030 --> 00:55:58.670 much anyone would agree, you should not be turned 00:55:58.670 --> 00:56:02.190 on by crashing your car, injuring people, injuring 00:56:02.190 --> 00:56:04.570 yourself. causing havoc on the road, probably 00:56:04.570 --> 00:56:07.090 causing havoc to your insurance company, which 00:56:07.090 --> 00:56:08.789 was one of my first thoughts watching it. How 00:56:08.789 --> 00:56:12.389 are they reporting these crashes? I would be 00:56:12.389 --> 00:56:16.130 investigating the shit out of these people. So 00:56:16.130 --> 00:56:18.050 it's, they're breaking all the rules. They're 00:56:18.050 --> 00:56:20.829 doing all of this stuff that is very, very deviant, 00:56:20.829 --> 00:56:23.929 very immoral, very harmful, very damaging to 00:56:23.929 --> 00:56:27.679 people around them. And the feeling of wanting 00:56:27.679 --> 00:56:30.260 something like that is the bit I related to because 00:56:30.260 --> 00:56:32.780 of the kind of fantasies that I have from really, 00:56:32.860 --> 00:56:35.059 really young fantasies about torture, fantasies 00:56:35.059 --> 00:56:37.039 about murder and fantasies about rape, which 00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:39.500 are all some of the most unacceptable things 00:56:39.500 --> 00:56:42.059 to do to other human beings. Yes. Absolutely 00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:45.699 awful, unjustifiable cruelty to other people 00:56:45.699 --> 00:56:48.300 that I don't support in any way. But it's what 00:56:48.300 --> 00:56:50.579 turns me on and gets me off as a fantasy, as 00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:52.820 a piece of fiction, as a role play within a kink 00:56:52.820 --> 00:56:56.710 relationship. Yeah. So I found that really interesting 00:56:56.710 --> 00:57:00.429 to sort of explore that space of kink as where 00:57:00.429 --> 00:57:04.170 you explore and experience the worst things you 00:57:04.170 --> 00:57:06.150 can think of, but with some degree of control. 00:57:06.369 --> 00:57:08.929 Yeah. Now, obviously, how I explore those things 00:57:08.929 --> 00:57:11.320 is with a lot more control. than what they had 00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:13.579 in the movie because i'm either fantasizing which 00:57:13.579 --> 00:57:15.559 is completely safe because it's in my head or 00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:17.780 i'm reading something or i'm doing a role play 00:57:17.780 --> 00:57:19.739 with you which has been heavily heavily negotiated 00:57:19.739 --> 00:57:22.500 and planned and we've talked through everything 00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:24.679 we can do to reduce risk because much as we joke 00:57:24.679 --> 00:57:26.760 about oh it's not very rack of you we are actually 00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:30.199 very rack of us yes um yeah yeah we're obviously 00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:32.980 driving a car into oncoming traffic with the 00:57:32.980 --> 00:57:36.019 intention of crashing it is not rack at all no 00:57:36.019 --> 00:57:38.420 it's there is no control there but the control 00:57:38.420 --> 00:57:41.119 is in the decision to do it rather than just 00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:43.409 waiting for it to happen to you. Which is, I 00:57:43.409 --> 00:57:45.309 think, is again where that parallel comes from, 00:57:45.349 --> 00:57:48.190 is the movie shows so many scenes of just these 00:57:48.190 --> 00:57:50.389 streams of traffic. There's a few bits of dialogue 00:57:50.389 --> 00:57:52.349 talking about, like, does the traffic seem heavier 00:57:52.349 --> 00:57:54.590 since the accident that happened at the start 00:57:54.590 --> 00:57:57.210 of the plot? Where they're obviously very constantly 00:57:57.210 --> 00:57:59.690 aware of the constant threat of it happening. 00:57:59.949 --> 00:58:02.550 And the almost inevitability of it, if you drive 00:58:02.550 --> 00:58:04.789 every day in heavy traffic every day, at some 00:58:04.789 --> 00:58:06.789 point something's going to happen. Hopefully 00:58:06.789 --> 00:58:10.329 just a minor bump, but you always know that that 00:58:10.329 --> 00:58:12.340 journey you go on to... pop to the shops for 00:58:12.340 --> 00:58:13.840 a pint of milk could be the one that kills you. 00:58:14.139 --> 00:58:16.420 And that living under the constant threat of 00:58:16.420 --> 00:58:19.340 something creates a tension that has to go somewhere. 00:58:20.099 --> 00:58:22.820 And I think that's why when you look at studies 00:58:22.820 --> 00:58:25.119 of how common rape fantasies are, particularly 00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:27.239 in women, that's where a lot of that comes from. 00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:30.039 Because the first conversation I remember having 00:58:30.039 --> 00:58:31.800 about sexual violence, I can't have been more 00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:34.199 than five years old. I'm being warned, you know, 00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:36.239 don't talk to strange men. Don't get in anyone's 00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:38.780 car. Don't let anyone touch you. If someone tries 00:58:38.780 --> 00:58:40.219 to touch you in a place that you don't want to 00:58:40.219 --> 00:58:42.099 be touched, like scream for an adult, all of 00:58:42.099 --> 00:58:45.940 this stuff. Like, particularly for people who 00:58:45.940 --> 00:58:48.179 are assigned female at birth, but I think increasingly 00:58:48.179 --> 00:58:50.420 for everybody, people are starting to learn that 00:58:50.420 --> 00:58:52.460 boys are victims just as often and are starting 00:58:52.460 --> 00:58:55.119 to teach them that as well. You grow up aware 00:58:55.119 --> 00:58:57.760 that you are under constant threat and the threat 00:58:57.760 --> 00:58:59.440 to you surrounds you because the threat is other 00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:01.820 people. Yeah. Eight billion of us on the planet. 00:59:01.900 --> 00:59:03.760 They're absolutely fucking everywhere and any 00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:05.500 one of them could be the threat. Yes, they are. 00:59:05.820 --> 00:59:08.739 And that tension has to go somewhere. So for 00:59:08.739 --> 00:59:11.019 a lot of people, where that goes is you eroticise 00:59:11.019 --> 00:59:13.780 it. Yeah. And I just found that really interesting. 00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:16.380 I have no idea if that was in any way intentional, 00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:20.960 given how male -gazy the movie was and how sort 00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:23.199 of old the original story is and how old even 00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:26.099 the movie is. I would be surprised if it had 00:59:26.099 --> 00:59:29.289 that sort of feminist take to it. or like female 00:59:29.289 --> 00:59:33.409 sexuality focus take to it but death of the artist 00:59:33.409 --> 00:59:35.030 like i'm taking that and running with it because 00:59:35.030 --> 00:59:38.750 it felt highly relatable to me yeah i can't imagine 00:59:38.750 --> 00:59:41.150 that it was putting that across through a feminist 00:59:41.150 --> 00:59:44.010 lens yeah and there'll be a lot of people who 00:59:44.010 --> 00:59:45.550 wouldn't consider that a feminist viewpoint to 00:59:45.550 --> 00:59:47.889 have but how women cope with the constant threat 00:59:47.889 --> 00:59:50.449 of sexual violence regardless of how ugly and 00:59:50.449 --> 00:59:52.309 messy and jagged around the edges it is i think 00:59:52.309 --> 00:59:55.690 is yeah it has to be part of it like it's it's 00:59:55.690 --> 00:59:58.469 women And people who experience gender -based 00:59:58.469 --> 01:00:02.469 violence taking control. Yeah. Which I think 01:00:02.469 --> 01:00:04.730 is only ever a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:00:05.269 --> 01:00:08.769 So I think that principle of how do you make 01:00:08.769 --> 01:00:10.929 sense of the threat around you and how do you 01:00:10.929 --> 01:00:16.210 take control of it and how do you make peace 01:00:16.210 --> 01:00:18.489 with it, I suppose. Yeah, I think it's probably 01:00:18.489 --> 01:00:21.179 the theme there. But probably not particularly 01:00:21.179 --> 01:00:23.840 feminist. Like you say, it's a pretty male gaze 01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:25.739 -y kind of film. Yeah. Okay, well, I'm pleased 01:00:25.739 --> 01:00:27.019 that you don't want me to hit you with my car 01:00:27.019 --> 01:00:32.059 because it is quite a nice car. It is. I don't 01:00:32.059 --> 01:00:33.940 want to have to explain to the lease company 01:00:33.940 --> 01:00:38.000 what happened to it. Or explain to the police 01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:39.659 what happened to me, I think would be your bigger 01:00:39.659 --> 01:00:43.340 issue. Yeah, true. I think another element of 01:00:43.340 --> 01:00:47.630 that for me as well is the... Sometimes it feels 01:00:47.630 --> 01:00:49.690 like the primary motivator for all of my kinks. 01:00:49.690 --> 01:00:51.409 The way that you often say the thing about it 01:00:51.409 --> 01:00:54.369 for you is power. Yeah. A big one for a lot of 01:00:54.369 --> 01:00:57.250 mine is intensity. Yeah. Whether something's 01:00:57.250 --> 01:00:59.730 intensely good or intensely bad, I want to feel 01:00:59.730 --> 01:01:03.030 like overwhelmed by emotion, sensation, all of 01:01:03.030 --> 01:01:06.170 it. all kinds of consensual non -consent play 01:01:06.170 --> 01:01:08.130 really hit that button really hard because they're 01:01:08.130 --> 01:01:10.070 always intense that feeling like you can't stop 01:01:10.070 --> 01:01:12.349 something that's happening to you which isn't 01:01:12.349 --> 01:01:14.750 just sort of play that is based around sexual 01:01:14.750 --> 01:01:16.829 violence it could be just violence you know the 01:01:16.829 --> 01:01:19.210 interrogation scene we did was a form of cnc 01:01:19.210 --> 01:01:20.909 even though there was no sexual contact in that 01:01:20.909 --> 01:01:23.889 but that feeling of powerlessness in the face 01:01:23.889 --> 01:01:26.710 of some form of violence or control is very intense 01:01:26.710 --> 01:01:29.250 and The idea that if you boil all of it down, 01:01:29.309 --> 01:01:31.289 like intensity is the point, also seemed like 01:01:31.289 --> 01:01:33.369 a lot of, particularly for these characters who 01:01:33.369 --> 01:01:35.889 were quite flat and quite numb, the only strong 01:01:35.889 --> 01:01:38.730 reactions that they ever had were in the peak 01:01:38.730 --> 01:01:41.369 of a car crash. Yeah. They were chasing that. 01:01:41.570 --> 01:01:43.309 And that's something that I could see a bit of 01:01:43.309 --> 01:01:45.929 myself in as well. Yeah. And the way that it 01:01:45.929 --> 01:01:48.769 escalated throughout the movie. Yeah. To, you 01:01:48.769 --> 01:01:51.889 know, from... I mean, I say it escalated. The 01:01:51.889 --> 01:01:53.750 crash that he had at the start of the film was 01:01:53.750 --> 01:01:56.150 pretty significant. Had quite a significant impact 01:01:56.150 --> 01:01:58.739 on him. But it was also unintentional. The intentional 01:01:58.739 --> 01:02:02.179 crashes definitely follow a straight up trajectory 01:02:02.179 --> 01:02:03.760 all the way through. Yeah, yeah. Kind of starting 01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:06.000 from those kind of recreation of the stunts to 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:09.599 like minor little bonks. Yeah. Through to pretty 01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:12.679 catastrophic crashes towards the end. Yeah, it's 01:02:12.679 --> 01:02:15.639 like you can see, yeah, I can see that kind of 01:02:15.639 --> 01:02:20.340 actually if you apply it to any, a lot of different 01:02:20.340 --> 01:02:22.860 kinks I suppose that we do is you start off at 01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:24.719 a level and you go, oh yeah. i'll have a little 01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:26.380 bit more of that please and a little bit more 01:02:26.380 --> 01:02:28.039 of that please and then a little bit more of 01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:30.539 that on top um you know before you know it i'm 01:02:30.539 --> 01:02:32.139 chasing you through the woods and pinning you 01:02:32.139 --> 01:02:34.840 down and fucking you as hard as i can kind of 01:02:34.840 --> 01:02:40.039 yeah yes please every now and again listener 01:02:40.039 --> 01:02:41.860 i just say things to them just to see the little 01:02:41.860 --> 01:02:45.769 smile on their face Anybody who listened to the 01:02:45.769 --> 01:02:47.829 degradation and humiliation episode will probably 01:02:47.829 --> 01:02:50.610 heard the little smile whenever I said. All the 01:02:50.610 --> 01:02:54.530 way through, yeah. It's tough. But yeah, it's 01:02:54.530 --> 01:02:56.849 that escalation in both intensity and realism, 01:02:56.949 --> 01:02:59.730 I think. You know, the first few scenes I did 01:02:59.730 --> 01:03:01.750 that were some form of consensual non -consent, 01:03:01.750 --> 01:03:04.650 it was quite cheesy role play and it was quite 01:03:04.650 --> 01:03:08.150 playful. And then I've worked out ways to make 01:03:08.150 --> 01:03:09.869 that feel more realistic. We've literally taken 01:03:09.869 --> 01:03:11.670 classes on how to make it feel more realistic 01:03:11.670 --> 01:03:15.329 to heighten the... the illusion for me and the 01:03:15.329 --> 01:03:17.829 illusion for you so that you can step into this 01:03:17.829 --> 01:03:19.710 other role and have it feel real for a period 01:03:19.710 --> 01:03:22.309 of time and so i can respond to you as if you 01:03:22.309 --> 01:03:24.710 are a stranger who's broken into the house even 01:03:24.710 --> 01:03:28.349 though i know that you're not yeah um that sort 01:03:28.349 --> 01:03:31.630 of constant pursuit of just a little bit more 01:03:31.630 --> 01:03:34.349 yeah it's something that can be really exciting 01:03:34.349 --> 01:03:36.349 and fun and kink and pushes you to innovate and 01:03:36.349 --> 01:03:37.789 educate yourself and do all these cool things 01:03:37.789 --> 01:03:40.400 but is also a risk factor to take into consideration. 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:42.380 There's times where I've really had to check 01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:44.539 myself if I was in a bad headspace and I was 01:03:44.539 --> 01:03:46.760 looking for the catharsis and release of intense 01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:49.719 play. There was a little voice in the back of 01:03:49.719 --> 01:03:51.940 my head that was like, just put yourself in danger 01:03:51.940 --> 01:03:54.380 and make it real. And I have to go, no, no, we're 01:03:54.380 --> 01:03:57.929 not going to do that. Yeah. So I think the movie 01:03:57.929 --> 01:04:00.409 really showed like the dark version of that, 01:04:00.469 --> 01:04:02.849 like where it can go right through to, you know, 01:04:02.849 --> 01:04:04.949 the end of the movie when James and Catherine 01:04:04.949 --> 01:04:07.090 have their crash that they've intentionally set 01:04:07.090 --> 01:04:09.989 out to have. And her car goes off the road and 01:04:09.989 --> 01:04:11.650 flips over and she's kind of halfway out of it 01:04:11.650 --> 01:04:13.429 and very still when he runs up to her. And he 01:04:13.429 --> 01:04:15.289 looks really worried. And you think that he's 01:04:15.289 --> 01:04:17.909 worried that she's badly injured or killed. And 01:04:17.909 --> 01:04:20.389 then she starts responding to him. And she says, 01:04:20.469 --> 01:04:22.170 I think I'm all right and breaks down in tears 01:04:22.170 --> 01:04:25.650 because she's all right. And they're both. they 01:04:25.650 --> 01:04:28.269 wanted they wanted catastrophic injury from it 01:04:28.269 --> 01:04:30.650 yeah and the movie ends with him while he's fucking 01:04:30.650 --> 01:04:32.690 her saying maybe next time like that's what they're 01:04:32.690 --> 01:04:35.070 chasing is for her to be badly injured yeah yeah 01:04:35.070 --> 01:04:37.449 yeah and that's just me after an impact scene 01:04:37.449 --> 01:04:38.829 when i look in the mirror and there's no bruises 01:04:38.829 --> 01:04:43.570 that is just the extreme version of that so maybe 01:04:43.570 --> 01:04:47.389 next time yeah yeah yeah and that in the movie 01:04:47.389 --> 01:04:49.590 that mirrors what happened to vaughn and like 01:04:49.590 --> 01:04:51.269 i said that two minutes of meaningful dialogue 01:04:51.789 --> 01:04:54.230 is all about that of actually what he was chasing 01:04:54.230 --> 01:04:56.969 was the the ultimate version of what he was doing 01:04:56.969 --> 01:04:59.670 yeah and he got it in the end because well i 01:04:59.670 --> 01:05:01.210 don't think you actually see him die but you 01:05:01.210 --> 01:05:03.510 see the crash i think it's safe to say he was 01:05:03.510 --> 01:05:07.670 he was he was dead at that point yeah he was 01:05:07.670 --> 01:05:09.929 in an upside down car inside a bus on fire so 01:05:09.929 --> 01:05:14.170 yeah i don't think he's walking away no no um 01:05:14.170 --> 01:05:17.489 going back to what we were saying earlier on 01:05:17.489 --> 01:05:20.440 about the the we create city with the kink that 01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:23.820 we do we create those bubbles of amorality but 01:05:23.820 --> 01:05:27.380 there are checks and balances on that yeah like 01:05:27.380 --> 01:05:30.300 what we do where we do it how we do it the things 01:05:30.300 --> 01:05:33.420 that we don't do etc that doesn't exist in the 01:05:33.420 --> 01:05:36.760 in the film yeah there isn't that line between 01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:40.199 morality and amorality in the world yeah and 01:05:40.199 --> 01:05:42.840 there isn't that kind of self -preservation which 01:05:42.840 --> 01:05:45.800 is more common in our discussions about the unhinged 01:05:45.800 --> 01:05:48.659 things that that we we talk about is the preservation 01:05:48.659 --> 01:05:51.639 of others yeah you know there are things that 01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:53.320 you have said we joke about it all the time hit 01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:57.320 me with your car kind of thing i'm the one going 01:05:57.320 --> 01:05:59.340 no and not just because i don't want to fuck 01:05:59.340 --> 01:06:01.940 up my nice at least car like no i'm not doing 01:06:01.940 --> 01:06:04.559 that giant hogweed we've talked about but no 01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:06.860 i'm not doing that kind of thing there's that 01:06:06.860 --> 01:06:09.840 natural control and preservation around it which 01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:12.519 is just completely absent in the movie yeah there's 01:06:12.519 --> 01:06:16.119 no sort of consent or negotiation models or even 01:06:16.119 --> 01:06:18.440 attempts at consent and negotiation there's not 01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:21.579 any attempts to think about self -preservation 01:06:21.579 --> 01:06:23.219 or the safety of other people or the consent 01:06:23.219 --> 01:06:26.500 of other people all of that is absent and that 01:06:26.500 --> 01:06:28.420 as as we talked about earlier like that could 01:06:28.420 --> 01:06:30.119 be a weakness where it's like poor representation 01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:33.739 and things like that but also it allows us it 01:06:33.739 --> 01:06:35.699 allows the movie to just distill it down into 01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:39.159 what does the chasing of intensity and the eroticizing 01:06:39.159 --> 01:06:43.699 of danger and injury where is the extreme that 01:06:43.699 --> 01:06:45.800 that would go to if you don't have any kind of 01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:48.320 check on it? Yeah. And I don't think it's unrealistic 01:06:48.320 --> 01:06:52.380 in that. I think if morality wasn't something 01:06:52.380 --> 01:06:54.780 that I cared about at all, and my safety wasn't 01:06:54.780 --> 01:06:56.559 something I cared about at all, I'd be doing 01:06:56.559 --> 01:06:58.960 some pretty fucked up stuff. Yeah. And those 01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:02.380 elements are really important. Yeah. That's a 01:07:02.380 --> 01:07:03.980 very good point. And I suppose there's a link 01:07:03.980 --> 01:07:06.800 there to how fear plays a role in kink generally, 01:07:06.900 --> 01:07:10.829 but also how fear plays a role in our kink. And 01:07:10.829 --> 01:07:13.630 I don't think it's addressed in the movie, but 01:07:13.630 --> 01:07:19.309 you can see James's fear at the start of... You're 01:07:19.309 --> 01:07:22.070 kind of going, oh my God, I shouldn't be turned 01:07:22.070 --> 01:07:24.610 on to this. Turned on by this. This is dangerous. 01:07:24.909 --> 01:07:29.369 What am I doing? And that falls away as things 01:07:29.369 --> 01:07:32.269 escalate throughout the movie. But that idea 01:07:32.269 --> 01:07:35.250 that sometimes it's hot because it's scary. Yeah. 01:07:36.409 --> 01:07:41.300 Is... I definitely think it's a big part of your 01:07:41.300 --> 01:07:44.199 motivation for kink. Fear makes me horny, yes. 01:07:44.500 --> 01:07:49.900 And I think my fear makes you horny. Yes. Yeah, 01:07:49.940 --> 01:07:55.780 I don't want to be scared. You want to be scary. 01:07:55.920 --> 01:08:01.920 In my kink, but I do like to be scary. You know, 01:08:02.019 --> 01:08:05.039 you talked before about some of the lessons, 01:08:05.179 --> 01:08:08.099 some of the education that we've done. around 01:08:08.099 --> 01:08:12.039 CNC and emotional sadomasochism and fear. And 01:08:12.039 --> 01:08:14.940 it is, for me, that is as simple as putting a 01:08:14.940 --> 01:08:19.079 mask on. Yeah. To create the fear in you, but 01:08:19.079 --> 01:08:21.520 also to create a version of myself which is scary, 01:08:21.640 --> 01:08:24.300 you know? I like to feel scary, not be scared. 01:08:24.619 --> 01:08:29.039 Yes. And you're very good at it. Thanks. I haven't 01:08:29.039 --> 01:08:31.119 used that mask very much, actually. No, I would 01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:34.439 like to request the scary mask next. I think 01:08:34.439 --> 01:08:36.890 I need to get a better one. I like that one. 01:08:37.010 --> 01:08:39.189 Do you? Yes, Migs. I know it looks good, but 01:08:39.189 --> 01:08:40.670 it's not massively comfortable to wear. Okay, 01:08:40.670 --> 01:08:43.710 that's fair. I need one that kind of is a little 01:08:43.710 --> 01:08:46.109 bit more comfortable to wear. Yeah. And easier 01:08:46.109 --> 01:08:49.869 to see out of. Like, because I end up kind of 01:08:49.869 --> 01:08:51.609 peering a little bit to try and work out where 01:08:51.609 --> 01:08:54.729 I'm going. Struggling to find the hole. Struggling 01:08:54.729 --> 01:08:58.890 to find the hole. Yeah. Yeah. Literally. Especially 01:08:58.890 --> 01:09:02.010 when it's a struggling hole. Yeah. It's wriggling 01:09:02.010 --> 01:09:08.250 around. But the film does show them going through 01:09:08.250 --> 01:09:12.869 that process of being scared by it and being 01:09:12.869 --> 01:09:14.770 turned on by it and then being turned on by it 01:09:14.770 --> 01:09:18.210 because they're scared by it. Yeah. Which is 01:09:18.210 --> 01:09:22.149 an interesting thing to see represented. Yeah, 01:09:22.189 --> 01:09:24.529 definitely. I think fear kink is something that 01:09:24.529 --> 01:09:27.100 isn't necessarily represented a lot. So it's 01:09:27.100 --> 01:09:29.399 cool to see that. And it is, as you say, a big 01:09:29.399 --> 01:09:31.640 part of the appeal for me. And I think it's quite 01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:33.779 a common one where the line between scared and 01:09:33.779 --> 01:09:40.619 horny can be pretty thin. Yeah, true. Quite a 01:09:40.619 --> 01:09:42.560 lot as well. You like the idea of having a flinch 01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:44.960 response. Yeah. Or we both like the idea of you 01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:47.000 having a flinch response. Let's be honest. Let's 01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:48.779 not just put all of this on you. It was your 01:09:48.779 --> 01:09:52.500 idea. And I was like, yes. Yes. Because we're 01:09:52.500 --> 01:09:54.680 both little perverts. Both little perverts. Could 01:09:54.680 --> 01:09:59.560 easily be played by James Spader. but me james 01:09:59.560 --> 01:10:02.279 spader as he is now not as he was in 1986 because 01:10:02.279 --> 01:10:07.340 of the hair i see being a little bit more chunky 01:10:07.340 --> 01:10:10.079 around the tummy than he was in 1996 yeah definitely 01:10:10.079 --> 01:10:11.880 a flinch response is something i really like 01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:14.800 to have and for me that's like a green flag in 01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:17.880 intimacy the way that that a lot of much more 01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:20.079 normal things would be for most people like i 01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:21.939 know that power exchange relationship is going 01:10:21.939 --> 01:10:23.920 well once i start flinching whenever my partner 01:10:23.920 --> 01:10:25.659 raises their hand it's like yeah that's the good 01:10:25.659 --> 01:10:28.539 shit um and that has to be approached obviously 01:10:28.539 --> 01:10:31.560 carefully as safely as possible lots of negotiation 01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:34.890 things like that but yeah yeah Us having a relationship 01:10:34.890 --> 01:10:36.510 where I know you can just randomly slap me at 01:10:36.510 --> 01:10:38.390 any time because I've specifically asked for 01:10:38.390 --> 01:10:41.010 that and we've agreed to it really helps to kind 01:10:41.010 --> 01:10:43.210 of prime me for that response. So it's not like 01:10:43.210 --> 01:10:44.789 I'm sitting around in a state of constant fear 01:10:44.789 --> 01:10:47.010 and that's not good for you. That can really 01:10:47.010 --> 01:10:48.930 raise your overall stress levels and make it 01:10:48.930 --> 01:10:51.210 hard for you to deal with things. But playing 01:10:51.210 --> 01:10:53.970 with just a little bit of fear that's always 01:10:53.970 --> 01:10:58.390 present can be really hot. But it's also similar 01:10:58.390 --> 01:11:00.430 to what I was talking about with the sort of 01:11:00.430 --> 01:11:03.350 eroticizing of the constant threat. If you make 01:11:03.350 --> 01:11:05.729 fear into one of your sex games, then fear itself 01:11:05.729 --> 01:11:08.270 has a little bit less power. Yeah. And it's like, 01:11:08.350 --> 01:11:09.689 okay, this is just a thing I do because it's 01:11:09.689 --> 01:11:11.750 hot now, which again can be a risk. There is 01:11:11.750 --> 01:11:13.729 a risk of you becoming desensitized to fear and 01:11:13.729 --> 01:11:15.350 just wandering around in danger like, oh, this 01:11:15.350 --> 01:11:17.250 is so sexy, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your 01:11:17.250 --> 01:11:20.050 preservation instinct starts to weaken. Yeah, 01:11:20.149 --> 01:11:22.510 which is one of the things that the classes that 01:11:22.510 --> 01:11:24.250 we've been to have covered as well is keeping 01:11:24.250 --> 01:11:26.050 an eye on that and making sure that doesn't happen 01:11:26.050 --> 01:11:27.750 if you're playing with sort of sustained intense 01:11:27.750 --> 01:11:30.310 fear. Yeah. Is that it can really damage your 01:11:30.310 --> 01:11:33.109 ability to detect danger. But as with all of 01:11:33.109 --> 01:11:34.890 these things, if you're able to find a way to 01:11:34.890 --> 01:11:36.850 do it that feels in line with your ethics and 01:11:36.850 --> 01:11:38.850 feels safe enough for your risk profile, then 01:11:38.850 --> 01:11:41.010 it can be really rewarding and it can have knock 01:11:41.010 --> 01:11:42.970 -on effects on other areas of your life that 01:11:42.970 --> 01:11:44.829 you wouldn't necessarily expect. I definitely 01:11:44.829 --> 01:11:48.210 feel less ruled by fear than I have done in the 01:11:48.210 --> 01:11:50.710 past. Fear used to be a real limiting factor 01:11:50.710 --> 01:11:53.390 in a lot of areas of my life. And I wouldn't 01:11:53.390 --> 01:11:55.109 say that it isn't at all now, but I don't think 01:11:55.109 --> 01:11:58.069 it should ever not be at all. But it feels less 01:11:58.069 --> 01:12:01.510 overwhelming. Which is a good thing. Kink is 01:12:01.510 --> 01:12:05.569 not therapy, but. Exactly. And the but is important. 01:12:05.890 --> 01:12:10.789 The but is important. I have enjoyed talking 01:12:10.789 --> 01:12:12.770 about Crash more than I liked watching it, I 01:12:12.770 --> 01:12:14.350 think. And I imagine that's the same for you. 01:12:14.430 --> 01:12:17.430 Definitely. I found it really interesting. But 01:12:17.430 --> 01:12:19.069 I think talking about some of the ideas that 01:12:19.069 --> 01:12:23.409 came up from it are more interesting. Yeah. Which 01:12:23.409 --> 01:12:26.289 I suppose, not to get all art wanky about it, 01:12:26.369 --> 01:12:29.979 is the point of art, isn't it? You are supposed 01:12:29.979 --> 01:12:32.079 to have some thoughts and feelings about the 01:12:32.079 --> 01:12:34.859 art that you are perceiving. Definitely. Beyond 01:12:34.859 --> 01:12:41.420 just, well, that was a bit fucking dull. I feel 01:12:41.420 --> 01:12:43.279 quite bad because there are probably people listening 01:12:43.279 --> 01:12:48.680 to this who think that Crash is an amazing film. 01:12:48.899 --> 01:12:53.319 And I love that for them. But it is not one that 01:12:53.319 --> 01:12:56.340 I will be rushing to watch again. But very interesting 01:12:56.340 --> 01:12:59.640 to talk about. Yes. And I think it's not like 01:12:59.640 --> 01:13:01.119 we've sat here and kicked the shit out of it. 01:13:01.159 --> 01:13:03.119 Like I say, I quite liked it and I like it more 01:13:03.119 --> 01:13:06.460 and more as I process. You weren't a big fan 01:13:06.460 --> 01:13:10.939 of it. I dislike it less. Exactly. So like you, 01:13:10.979 --> 01:13:13.359 you didn't like it and you dislike it less, but 01:13:13.359 --> 01:13:14.880 it's not like you've sat here and gone, it's 01:13:14.880 --> 01:13:17.859 shit. It was badly made. It was useless. Everyone 01:13:17.859 --> 01:13:21.140 involved in it should be shot. Like you can acknowledge 01:13:21.140 --> 01:13:23.159 the things that did well. It just wasn't your 01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:25.680 kind of movie. Yeah. I feel like we've given 01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:27.600 it less of a kicking than we gave Pillion, definitely. 01:13:28.420 --> 01:13:32.600 True. Yeah, that is definitely true. And it is, 01:13:32.619 --> 01:13:34.779 to be fair, it is a well -made film. Yeah. Crash. 01:13:35.020 --> 01:13:36.760 Pillion too, to be fair. I just had my issues 01:13:36.760 --> 01:13:40.420 with that. Yeah. It is a really well -made film. 01:13:40.479 --> 01:13:43.500 It is always interesting to watch 30 -year -old 01:13:43.500 --> 01:13:46.659 films with modern eyes. Yeah. I suppose, like, 01:13:46.739 --> 01:13:48.880 some of the scenes when they were driving were 01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:51.220 a little bit cheesy. Because the actors do this 01:13:51.220 --> 01:13:55.369 thing where, like... You can tell they're on 01:13:55.369 --> 01:13:57.510 a soundstage somewhere and they're playing a 01:13:57.510 --> 01:14:01.789 video of a road scene behind them. But what they 01:14:01.789 --> 01:14:05.210 do with the steering wheel, it's like, I can't, 01:14:05.229 --> 01:14:07.470 how do you do this on an audio -only podcast? 01:14:08.109 --> 01:14:09.789 They're sort of wiggling it. They're wiggling 01:14:09.789 --> 01:14:11.390 it all the time. And you're like, if you were 01:14:11.390 --> 01:14:14.210 actually doing that in a car, you would be S 01:14:14.210 --> 01:14:16.350 -ing along the road like nobody's business, which 01:14:16.350 --> 01:14:18.069 might be the point for Crash. For Crash, to be 01:14:18.069 --> 01:14:22.680 fair, yeah. They are trying to crash. But yeah, 01:14:22.720 --> 01:14:24.460 they're really kind of going at the steering 01:14:24.460 --> 01:14:26.520 wheel to demonstrate that they are acting, that 01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:28.939 they are driving. Yeah. It's little things like 01:14:28.939 --> 01:14:30.359 that, which I kind of look at it and go, oh my 01:14:30.359 --> 01:14:33.640 God, we used to think this was peak cinema. Peak 01:14:33.640 --> 01:14:36.420 filmmaking. And you can see the age of the movie 01:14:36.420 --> 01:14:40.239 because there was bush. Yes. Yeah. Pubic hair. 01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:44.880 Actual pubic hair. Yeah. Unheard of. You're right. 01:14:45.579 --> 01:14:48.720 And like, it shouldn't be in any way shocking, 01:14:48.800 --> 01:14:50.970 but it is a little bit. When you see it in a 01:14:50.970 --> 01:14:52.909 film. Yeah, I think it is starting to swing back 01:14:52.909 --> 01:14:54.569 a little bit. I feel like I have seen a little 01:14:54.569 --> 01:14:56.829 bit more very, very well trimmed and groomed 01:14:56.829 --> 01:15:00.189 pubic hair in movies of late. But there was a 01:15:00.189 --> 01:15:02.149 good chunk of time where, if you saw anything, 01:15:02.430 --> 01:15:06.550 it was shaved or waxed. Yeah. Weird. I mean, 01:15:06.569 --> 01:15:09.310 I am also fully shaved, but that's not... That's 01:15:09.310 --> 01:15:11.710 because my job is to be a bimbo fleshlight and... 01:15:11.710 --> 01:15:14.270 Yeah. And you like to give me loads of grooming 01:15:14.270 --> 01:15:16.789 tasks to do to keep me busy. Yeah, yeah. It's 01:15:16.789 --> 01:15:18.409 not because that is the default that everyone 01:15:18.409 --> 01:15:23.609 should adhere to. yeah um literally the the very 01:15:23.609 --> 01:15:26.310 epitome of just because i can yeah because i 01:15:26.310 --> 01:15:31.529 don't care like in normal day -to -day normal 01:15:31.529 --> 01:15:35.510 day -to -day interactions how much pussy are 01:15:35.510 --> 01:15:38.130 you seeing your normal day -to -day interactions 01:15:38.130 --> 01:15:41.850 um without being a pervert not quite as much 01:15:41.850 --> 01:15:49.159 as i would like but like as a as a default i 01:15:49.159 --> 01:15:52.279 don't care yeah anyway yeah i i don't know what 01:15:52.279 --> 01:15:54.199 i was expecting from the wrap -up but discussing 01:15:54.199 --> 01:15:56.699 my pubic hair wasn't wasn't on the list but there 01:15:56.699 --> 01:15:58.659 we go no well this is what this is what you get 01:15:58.659 --> 01:16:00.779 when you just write wrap up however you want 01:16:00.779 --> 01:16:03.239 exactly we get good content where we talk about 01:16:03.239 --> 01:16:05.340 something random that the listeners will love 01:16:05.340 --> 01:16:08.939 to hear i'm sure for anyone who hasn't picked 01:16:08.939 --> 01:16:11.279 up on this already my outlines that i write tend 01:16:11.279 --> 01:16:13.460 to end up with wrap up however you like and when 01:16:13.460 --> 01:16:15.560 it's my turn to wrap up They have no objection 01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:18.840 to that. But when it says mix, wrap up however 01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:21.920 you like, they hootle, they fuss, they kick up 01:16:21.920 --> 01:16:24.239 a stink, they complain. They say that they've 01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:26.020 had no notice when they've had the outline in 01:16:26.020 --> 01:16:29.119 their inbox for three days. And yet they always 01:16:29.119 --> 01:16:31.119 do a great job. Pay attention to how they wrap 01:16:31.119 --> 01:16:33.319 up. They always do awesome. So I think you just 01:16:33.319 --> 01:16:36.159 need to in confidence yourself. In confidence 01:16:36.159 --> 01:16:39.590 myself. Yes. I just need to stop being a whiny 01:16:39.590 --> 01:16:42.729 little bitch. I would never say such a thing 01:16:42.729 --> 01:16:49.510 to you, Mix. On that note. Thanks everyone for 01:16:49.510 --> 01:17:13.390 listening. Bye. See you next time.