WEBVTT

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Welcome to Don't Scare the Newbies, a podcast

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where we talk kink, raw and unfiltered. I'm Carisel,

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a lifestyle submissive in a 24 -7 dynamic who

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likes their kink heavy, intense and scary. And

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I'm S, Carisel's dominant, who knows how to deliver

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all of the above. And today we're going to be

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talking about long -distance relationships, including,

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of course, long -distance power exchange relationships.

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Because what else would we talk about? We are

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a kink podcast. Yes. We should do that. We should

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talk about kink. I think we do that. In our kink

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podcast. Yes, it's been known to happen. I'm

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actually quite nervous about this episode. Yeah,

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it's going to be a lot of you talking, isn't

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it, Max? It's a lot of me talking and I've done

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the outline. This is the first episode where

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I've done most of the outlining. Well, to be

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fair, I did get some help. You did? I did speak

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to my ex -partner, who I was in a long -distance

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relationship with, to get their perspective on

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it, yeah. So I just feel like I should get that

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out of the way first so that if this episode

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turns out to be rubbish, it's entirely my fault.

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This is not an indicator of the start of the

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decline in quality. if it's rubbish i won't do

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it again i think it's going to be a good one

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and it made sense for you to outline it because

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you have got far more experience of long distance

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than i have both in terms of length of relationship

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and distance involved that is true which i suppose

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is a really good place to start isn't it is talking

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about long distance relationships but like what

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do we mean by that Yeah, I think it's really

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personal what counts as long distance to you,

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because I think so much of that is affected by

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how long the distance feels. Like if you don't

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drive and you've got limited money, it wouldn't

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have to be very far for it to function essentially

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as a long distance relationship. Yeah, yeah,

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I think you're right. I mean, my long distance

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relationship was an international long distance.

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4 500 miles away i think on the east coast of

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the united states yeah so that is both in terms

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of just pure distance but also those kind of

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things about ease of access yeah you can't just

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pop over i can't just kind of pop over of an

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evening and say hello and then come home yeah

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uh yeah even if money was no object there's still

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going to be some some planning and logistics

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yeah yeah it's an eight hour flight yeah so you

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know if there's an emergency it's like i'll see

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you tomorrow yeah see you see you in two days

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something interesting i've been thinking about

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with this is and this definitely it's not a long

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distance situation in either case but contrasting

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the early days of my relationship with you with

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the early days of my relationship with hope yeah

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because the distance was identical hope used

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to live on the same street as you yes with with

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her family yes um so when i first started dating

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her she was coming to my flat in walker from

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here and when i first started dating you i was

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coming from my flat in walker to here to see

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you yes um but you have a car i do and hope had

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no car and at the time that we first started

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dating she had no job and i was on a very low

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income yeah so the distance then felt so much

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further Yeah. Because you could just pop over.

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It's, you know, it's a significant length drive,

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but you could, if I was having a bad day, you

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could just go, do you want to come over? I'll

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come pick you up. Yeah. Where for me and Hope

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to see each other, it was about two hours by

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bus. And if neither of us had bus fare, it was

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impossible. Yeah. Yeah. So very different, very

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different feelings around the exact same journey.

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Yeah. I think that's a really good point because

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I think for me that it isn't the... physical

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distance that makes a long distance relationship

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a long distance relationship as weird as that

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might sound it is the ease of access and the

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practicality of access because you're right i

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had a intercontinental long distance relationship

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you you've you've been in a relationship with

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someone in another city i have yes mix um and

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then you've got the the as you just said the

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relationship with with hope all of that is kind

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of create barriers to access to each other yeah

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you know When I was thinking about the outline

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for this, I was thinking about it's not just

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international. It's not just intercity sort of

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within the same country. But you also think about

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kind of places like London. Yeah. Like if you

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live in Hounslow and you're dating someone in

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practically in Essex, that's a hell of a journey.

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Yeah. Just across one city. Though the transport

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there is good. I feel like you probably have

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an easier time making that journey than you would

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from here to Newcastle by bus. Yeah, probably,

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probably. If you could afford the tube fare.

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Or if you were willing to navigate the M25 at

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five o 'clock on a Wednesday afternoon, kind

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of. That doesn't sound like fun. No, no, I couldn't

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drive when I lived in London. And I'm really

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pleased because I think I would have given up

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driving. I would have just stopped. Do you know

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what? It's not worth the hassle. Just abandoned

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the car somewhere and walked away. Never returned.

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Yeah, yeah. Do a Michael Douglas in Falling Down.

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The reference has gone over my head once again,

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Mix. Is it another one that's too old for me?

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Yeah, probably. Mid -90s, probably. I was a small

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child. You were a small child. I was alive, at

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least. Yeah, yeah. Some of your references, I

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wasn't even born yet. Michael Douglas is a man

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on the edge and loses his shit in LA traffic

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and goes on a bit of a violent spree. And I feel

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like that would be me trying to navigate my way

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around London on a daily basis. I think that's

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valid. So for the purposes of this episode, we

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are defining a long distance relationship by

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a relationship where there are potentially extended

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periods of time physically apart. Yeah. And actually

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where the barrier is access rather than distance.

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Yeah, I think that's fair mix. Because when I

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start talking about what I class as my one long

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distance relationship I've been in, I think how

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people view that will vary very much depending

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on where they are. It's really normal for Americans

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to travel, you know, two or three hours to get

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to work. Yeah. To go on a day out. Yeah. Where

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in this country, we tend not to travel as far.

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Moderate distance travel is less normalized,

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I think. And at the time, me and the person that

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I was dating were very, very short on money,

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which makes distances further. Yeah, yeah. There's

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always that silly meme that you sometimes see

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on Instagram, like Americans think 200 years

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is a long time and the British people think 200

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miles is a long way. Yeah. You know, it's different

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attitudes, I suppose. So given that that's how

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we're defining a long distance relationship,

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we both have experience of a... a relationship

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at a distance yeah um do you want to tell us

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about tell us about your experience of it yeah

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so my long distance relationship or longish distance

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relationship mix is actually the reason i'm in

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the northeast so even though the relationship

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wasn't great i'm really glad it happened because

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it got me up here got me to meet you got me to

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the job that i have now like everything everything

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good in my life really came from that relationship

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um but the relationship itself was not always

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ideal uh so when i was I would have been 18 coming

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up to 19. I had just finished a course that I'd

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done. I did a year training to be a beauty therapist.

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I've never worked as a beauty therapist and I

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never will. I hated it. But I did scrape through

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the course and I was looking for someone to be

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my date for my graduation because I was single

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and I wanted to take a date. And I was going

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through one of my many sort of periodic slut

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phases at the time. So I basically went on a

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dating website. This was pre -apps and was...

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Anyone I was messaging with was letting them

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know I was looking for a date for my graduation.

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I wasn't looking for a relationship and I wanted

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someone who was good in bed that I could fuck

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after the graduation. That was literally my criteria.

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Excellent. And a guy from Newcastle messaged

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me and I wouldn't have considered a relationship

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with someone in Newcastle, but I wasn't looking

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for a relationship. So that was fine. So I invited

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him to my graduation and we ended up. liking

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each other um there was a spark there so we continued

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seeing each other and we were in a relationship

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for a little bit over a year maybe getting on

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for a year and a half um with most of that time

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he was living in newcastle and i was living in

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halifax in west sussex um is halifax in west

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sussex no mix it's in west yorkshire I used to

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live in West Sussex as well. That's where it

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gets really confusing with all the Wests. Yes.

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So, yeah, I was in Halifax in West Yorkshire.

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So that's about a two hour drive, I think, next.

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About that. Yeah, yeah, roughly. But neither

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of us drove. So it was two or three train rides.

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depending on the connections yeah and it was

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about usually probably two two and a half hours

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with the faffing with the connections and the

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getting to the station and yeah getting from

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the station to his house and all that factored

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in um so still not not an impossible journey

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to do there and back in a day definitely worth

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it for a weekend but add to that at the time

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that we met um i hadn't got a job yet i just

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finished college and hadn't figured out what

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i was doing and he was a student so he didn't

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have a job either yeah so between us we had an

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income of basically nothing yeah um over the

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course of that relationship i did get a job but

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it was only a temporary job that lasted for i

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think six months i was covering part of someone's

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maternity leave and then i was at the end of

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that unemployed again and this was in uh 2008

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into 2009 and for anyone who remembers what the

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world was like during that period of time basically

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if you were unemployed you were fucked yeah i

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was applying for multiple jobs a day i was doing

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you know what the boomers tell you to do going

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around like shops and offices and handing your

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cv out to people yeah um i was because also the

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internet was a thing as well as well as that

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i was doing every online application i could

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find every single day and it took me probably

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the best part of six months to get another job

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yeah um it was it was a grim time to be new and

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entering the workforce uh so yeah for a big chunk

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of the relationship i had 50 pounds a week benefit

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money and he had no income at all yeah with being

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a student um when he graduated he was then getting

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50 pounds a week in benefits and there was a

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couple of small segments of time where i had

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a retail job sort of near the beginning and near

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the end yeah so we didn't have travel money um

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So that was the biggest challenge for us, was

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being able to afford the train fares in either

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direction. And when we could make it to see each

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other, we would spend as long as we could with

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each other because travel was difficult. So I

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would, when I was unemployed, I would go up there

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the day after my job centre appointment and I

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would stay up there until the day before my next

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job centre appointment. And I would job hunt

00:10:56.669 --> 00:10:58.169
while I was up there because the plan was if

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I managed to get a job up there, I would move

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in with him. And I did, ultimately towards the

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end of that relationship, I did get a job up

00:11:06.169 --> 00:11:09.000
there and move in with him. And we lived together

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in his parents' house while I was going through

00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:13.120
the process of buying my flat. And then about

00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.059
a day after I completed on the purchase of the

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flat, we broke up. Nice. So I moved into the

00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:21.100
flat on my own and stayed in the northeast ever

00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:23.460
since. Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, that worked out

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quite well then. It did, yeah. Long term. yeah

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like i'm really glad i ended up in the northeast

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like yeah i knew that as soon as i started coming

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up to see him like i knew i really liked the

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northeast i was looking to get a little bit of

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distance from my family and i hadn't really known

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where to go and i'd always wanted to live in

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a city because my parents have always preferred

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living out in the middle of nowhere much like

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i now do and i think when i was in my late teens

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early 20s like that was the time that it was

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ideal for me to be living in a city i really

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enjoyed the nightlife and all of the easy opportunities

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to meet people and make new friends and all of

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that stuff that I really wanted to do. So finding

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someone to introduce me to a nice, moderate -sized

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city that wasn't too overwhelming for someone

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who'd always lived out in the country. That was

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great. Yeah. But didn't work out. No. No, he

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wasn't very nice, to be honest. There were some

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issues there. Probably a good thing. So that's

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a summary of mine. Like I said, it lasted about

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a year and a half, most of it long distance.

00:12:19.059 --> 00:12:21.519
But what about you, Mix? Tell us about your long

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-distance relationship. So my long distance relationship

00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:27.379
was with someone, as I said before, living on

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the east coast of the United States in the southeastern

00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:35.919
corner of the States in a very, very hot state

00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.759
over there. We met back end of 2019. I think

00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:41.799
it was when I'd separated from my previous partner

00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:48.360
and met them on Tumblr of all places. Oh, wow.

00:12:48.539 --> 00:12:52.950
I know. And it was. You know, started off as

00:12:52.950 --> 00:12:56.970
one of those kind of flirty things of, like,

00:12:57.029 --> 00:12:59.850
as you do online. Fairly quickly got into that

00:12:59.850 --> 00:13:01.690
routine of communicating on a really regular

00:13:01.690 --> 00:13:04.750
basis. And, like, got to that point really quickly

00:13:04.750 --> 00:13:06.409
of, like, my favourite person is in my phone.

00:13:06.610 --> 00:13:11.289
Yeah. So we acknowledged that. We acknowledged

00:13:11.289 --> 00:13:14.090
the challenge of distancing. We were like, oh,

00:13:14.129 --> 00:13:17.149
yeah, it's fine. Absolutely fine. No problem

00:13:17.149 --> 00:13:23.649
at all. And got into what was. serious romantic

00:13:23.649 --> 00:13:27.049
relationship with a DS element to it as well.

00:13:30.149 --> 00:13:33.370
I'm a little bit hazy on when it ended. When

00:13:33.370 --> 00:13:36.909
did we meet? We got together in 2023, Mix, and

00:13:36.909 --> 00:13:39.190
you were relatively recently single. I don't

00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:41.049
know exactly how long, but I think a similar

00:13:41.049 --> 00:13:43.870
timeline to me. Yeah, so that relationship lasted

00:13:43.870 --> 00:13:47.889
a better part of three years. Yeah. And then

00:13:47.889 --> 00:13:52.639
met you fairly quickly. After that, it was, with

00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:58.000
the exception of 10 days, where I went over to

00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:02.019
America to see her. It was entirely at a distance.

00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:06.159
We only met once for a vacation period. And yeah,

00:14:06.259 --> 00:14:08.580
it was a really good relationship. I think it

00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:11.519
primarily ended because we were both kind of

00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:16.159
acknowledging that actually being together physically

00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.100
would be... Really, really tricky. You know,

00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:22.720
kind of some really basic stuff of... I didn't

00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.259
really fancy moving to America. Although I would

00:14:26.259 --> 00:14:31.639
have done. I think that was the thing. I think

00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:34.580
she didn't really want to... Had the same attitude

00:14:34.580 --> 00:14:36.820
in the other direction. Probably would have,

00:14:36.940 --> 00:14:40.759
but would have preferred not to. Yeah. I think

00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:42.940
she's quite close to her family, so would have...

00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.500
been difficult leaving them behind and I think

00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:47.879
less probably less so for her than for me but

00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:50.360
I was also really conscious that my own parents

00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:53.379
are getting to the age where at some point I'm

00:14:53.379 --> 00:14:54.960
going to have to move pretty quickly from where

00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:58.639
I am to where they are not relocate but like

00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:01.019
I am going to have to get from where I am to

00:15:01.019 --> 00:15:03.080
where they are at pretty short notice potentially

00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:06.539
for all sorts of different reasons and if I'm

00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:08.580
four and a half thousand miles and two days away

00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:11.019
that's not possible yeah So it was those sort

00:15:11.019 --> 00:15:13.759
of things that I think precipitated the end of

00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:17.779
our relationship. But still really good friends

00:15:17.779 --> 00:15:19.559
with her. It was a really positive relationship.

00:15:20.059 --> 00:15:23.679
We both got a lot from it. I think we kind of

00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:27.639
met each other at a time in our lives when we

00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:31.600
needed the other person. Yeah. And we got through

00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:34.320
a lot together and came out of it stronger as

00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:37.019
individuals, but also pretty strong as a friendship

00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:40.470
as well. Yeah. So like an overall. positive experience

00:15:40.470 --> 00:15:44.370
but really quite challenging at times yeah and

00:15:44.370 --> 00:15:46.909
i always i have a hard time imagining it because

00:15:46.909 --> 00:15:50.350
i have only experienced you as a clingy bitch

00:15:50.350 --> 00:15:54.769
yeah yeah like when we first started dating literally

00:15:54.769 --> 00:15:56.730
our first date i was trying to play it quite

00:15:56.730 --> 00:15:59.090
cool and be like no like normal people are not

00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:01.889
as clingy as i am so i need to be chill and you

00:16:01.889 --> 00:16:03.730
were like after our first date i would like you

00:16:03.730 --> 00:16:05.389
to sleep over for the first time i was like hell

00:16:05.389 --> 00:16:08.509
yeah and then like the next Time I saw you was

00:16:08.509 --> 00:16:10.250
maybe three days after that. You said come for

00:16:10.250 --> 00:16:13.070
the whole weekend. Yeah. And then within a week

00:16:13.070 --> 00:16:15.289
or two, I was spending probably four nights a

00:16:15.289 --> 00:16:17.610
week over here. Yeah. Like a midweek, one or

00:16:17.610 --> 00:16:19.750
two nights a day and then a full weekend. Yeah.

00:16:19.789 --> 00:16:22.769
Every week. And I moved in when we've been together

00:16:22.769 --> 00:16:25.370
for three months. That seems like your pace.

00:16:25.830 --> 00:16:28.789
Yeah. So imagining you in a three year plus long

00:16:28.789 --> 00:16:30.590
distance relationship where you only physically

00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:33.330
saw the other person for 10 days. Yeah. I feel

00:16:33.330 --> 00:16:36.639
like you would explode. Yeah, it was quite difficult

00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:40.000
at times because, yeah, kind of that physical

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.539
closeness, spending as much time as I can with

00:16:43.539 --> 00:16:48.720
someone is important to me. Yeah. And there are

00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:50.740
ways to do that in a long distance relationship.

00:16:50.779 --> 00:16:55.720
We have the technology now. I said before, my

00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:58.019
favorite person was in my phone and I always

00:16:58.019 --> 00:16:59.799
had my phone with me. So I always had them with

00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:04.160
me. And it was. Obviously, apart from when we

00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.259
were sleeping, it was a constant conversation.

00:17:06.700 --> 00:17:12.339
Yeah. It wasn't like, you know, in some relationships

00:17:12.339 --> 00:17:14.700
where you have physical access to your partner,

00:17:14.740 --> 00:17:17.460
you're not necessarily constantly communicating

00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:21.559
by text. Yeah. Or on a call or whatever. That

00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:23.779
was a really big feature of our relationship

00:17:23.779 --> 00:17:26.759
was just constantly talking to each other, narrating

00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:29.240
our day, which was really nice. So I think it

00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:31.559
was kind of substituting that physical closeness

00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:33.880
with a different type of closeness. Yeah. Was

00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.000
how we got through that. You are a really good

00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.019
texter. I noticed that when we were first together,

00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:40.660
when we weren't living together, that you will

00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:42.619
keep a conversation going all day. And I quite

00:17:42.619 --> 00:17:44.400
actually will as well. But some people do not.

00:17:44.460 --> 00:17:47.440
I've had relationships before where they would

00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:49.920
sort of like text good morning and text good

00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.670
night. And give me updates on anything particularly

00:17:52.670 --> 00:17:54.289
interesting that happened. And that was about

00:17:54.289 --> 00:17:56.230
it. Like there have been people I've dated where

00:17:56.230 --> 00:17:58.150
we would exchange a maximum of five texts in

00:17:58.150 --> 00:18:01.849
a day. Yeah, yeah. And that is not for me. Yeah.

00:18:01.869 --> 00:18:04.230
I like the relentless narrate me your day kind

00:18:04.230 --> 00:18:06.890
of texting. Yeah, yeah. And even to be fair,

00:18:06.950 --> 00:18:09.170
even when one of us was asleep, because there

00:18:09.170 --> 00:18:10.710
was obviously a time difference. So there was

00:18:10.710 --> 00:18:13.730
a lag. I would wake up and there would be a stream

00:18:13.730 --> 00:18:16.329
of text messages where she was just telling me

00:18:16.329 --> 00:18:19.609
about what she was doing. Yeah. And then... we

00:18:19.609 --> 00:18:21.670
would have because she fucked up her sleep schedule

00:18:21.670 --> 00:18:26.490
we had a brief period in the morning in my morning

00:18:26.490 --> 00:18:30.829
where we were where we had time together and

00:18:30.829 --> 00:18:32.750
then she would go to bed and i would narrate

00:18:32.750 --> 00:18:35.829
my day yeah so she would wake up to dozens and

00:18:35.829 --> 00:18:39.309
dozens of text messages of just the random shit

00:18:39.309 --> 00:18:42.609
that you get up to during a day like even my

00:18:42.609 --> 00:18:46.109
work day i'm going to a meeting now that was

00:18:46.109 --> 00:18:50.000
a silly meeting It's so loud in here today. You

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.460
know, stuff like that. Yeah. Which is really

00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:58.160
intimate. Actually, really quite personal. Yeah.

00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:03.519
When you think about it, you know. Because I

00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:05.700
work upstairs in a house. And when I come down,

00:19:05.859 --> 00:19:07.440
first thing I do is I ask you how your day is

00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:09.539
going. Yeah. It's that sort of information that

00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:11.779
you're kind of providing in real time. Yeah.

00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:14.140
To someone. Yeah, because you don't even think

00:19:14.140 --> 00:19:16.420
about how much you talk to each other in a day.

00:19:16.779 --> 00:19:19.319
Like we will quite happily sort of sit and stare

00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:21.819
at screens or just sit and listen to music and

00:19:21.819 --> 00:19:24.380
chill. But just pottering around the house, the

00:19:24.380 --> 00:19:27.059
number of little things where you'll come down

00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:29.240
and ask how my day's going and I'll complain

00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.880
about some silly decision someone's made at work

00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.519
and the chaos that is ensuing as a result. And

00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:36.539
you don't remember that as a conversation, but

00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:38.819
you notice the lack of it. No, not any rate.

00:19:39.019 --> 00:19:41.079
That's really nice to just be involved in each

00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:42.799
other's lives in that way. Yeah, yeah. And I'll

00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:44.380
come down and grumble about a meeting that I've

00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:46.920
got to have. Yeah. Generally a pointless meeting.

00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:52.059
You always complain about meetings and I'm the

00:19:52.059 --> 00:19:54.200
complete opposite. For me, in the job that I

00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.160
do, a meeting is my chill time. Yeah. A meeting,

00:19:57.259 --> 00:20:00.019
even if I'm presenting, a meeting is just sitting

00:20:00.019 --> 00:20:01.799
and chatting to people. I think because I'm really

00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:05.410
extrovert as well. Yeah. Like... Most of my day

00:20:05.410 --> 00:20:10.190
is spent looking at data and notes and listening

00:20:10.190 --> 00:20:12.970
to other people's phone calls and digging through

00:20:12.970 --> 00:20:15.829
records and sometimes speaking to a customer.

00:20:15.849 --> 00:20:18.230
But it's not always a particularly cheery conversation

00:20:18.230 --> 00:20:20.430
because if you're speaking to an insurance underwriter,

00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:25.900
something's up. But when I have a meeting, I'm

00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:28.000
hanging out with like my team or someone else's

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:29.819
team and we're chatting about stuff and it's

00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:31.440
really chill. So I'm always like, yeah, a pointless

00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:33.859
meeting. And you're like, ugh, a pointless meeting.

00:20:34.299 --> 00:20:37.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I might be being really

00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:41.980
unfair. But I feel like the proportion of meetings

00:20:41.980 --> 00:20:44.539
that could literally have been an email are quite

00:20:44.539 --> 00:20:47.380
high. Yeah. And instead of doing that, they put

00:20:47.380 --> 00:20:51.299
in a 45 minute meeting, which takes 45 minutes

00:20:51.299 --> 00:20:53.299
because that's the time that's allotted for it.

00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:54.819
But it could have been a five minute conversation.

00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.420
Yeah. So how did that feel for you? That relationship

00:20:58.420 --> 00:21:01.119
at a distance with that person? I don't think

00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:03.180
I found it particularly hard at the time mix.

00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.740
I definitely, I wanted the long distance portion

00:21:06.740 --> 00:21:08.819
of it to have an end point to it. Yeah. And the

00:21:08.819 --> 00:21:10.900
plan was always, once we established we were

00:21:10.900 --> 00:21:12.559
having a relationship, it was like, if this goes

00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:15.740
well, I'm going to move to Newcastle. because

00:21:15.740 --> 00:21:18.039
there was no reason for him to move to me and

00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:19.900
he was happy. Like he was really close with his

00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:21.960
family. He liked the area. There was no reason

00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:23.980
to consider him moving to me when I was very

00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:25.599
happy to move and I was looking for an excuse

00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:29.880
to. So the plan was from pretty early on that

00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:31.839
I was going to move up to Newcastle and that

00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.039
I would be primarily looking for work up there.

00:21:34.180 --> 00:21:35.900
I mean, because I was unemployed and I was desperate,

00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:37.740
I was looking where I was as well, but it was

00:21:37.740 --> 00:21:40.359
always with the intention of continue then looking

00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:42.460
in Newcastle and that I would move up once I

00:21:42.460 --> 00:21:46.210
got a job and got a property. So we always knew

00:21:46.210 --> 00:21:47.950
that that was going to be something that was

00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:50.089
achievable. And even with the way that the job

00:21:50.089 --> 00:21:52.089
market was at the time, it wasn't going to be

00:21:52.089 --> 00:21:54.450
years and years. We were talking months, not

00:21:54.450 --> 00:21:57.250
years. Yeah. So it always felt quite manageable.

00:21:57.390 --> 00:21:59.650
And we did see quite a lot of each other. When

00:21:59.650 --> 00:22:02.029
I was working, I was spending most weekends with

00:22:02.029 --> 00:22:04.450
him. So very different to how it was for you

00:22:04.450 --> 00:22:06.809
and your ex -partner. We were seeing each other.

00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:10.319
like most weeks yeah there were a couple of stretches

00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:12.059
where money was tight and we would struggle to

00:22:12.059 --> 00:22:13.660
do it but the solution we ended up finding out

00:22:13.660 --> 00:22:15.440
was spending longer periods together like i said

00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.200
when i was unemployed i would go up for almost

00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:19.660
two weeks so yeah that would take most of my

00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:22.380
benefits to get up there but i only had to spend

00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:25.599
it the once yeah um by the way i think if you're

00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.160
on benefits you're not actually supposed to be

00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:28.819
leaving your area for stretches as long as that

00:22:28.819 --> 00:22:31.740
but but if you are on uh universal credit it

00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:33.539
would be now do check with your job coach before

00:22:33.539 --> 00:22:38.230
doing this don't take this as advice um so yeah

00:22:38.230 --> 00:22:41.170
we saw each other a lot um he was a fellow clingy

00:22:41.170 --> 00:22:44.690
bitch like us the main stress was just the fact

00:22:44.690 --> 00:22:46.950
that it was always kind of unpredictable how

00:22:46.950 --> 00:22:49.289
long we would be able to maintain that this was

00:22:49.289 --> 00:22:52.609
you know going back to 2008 2009 they were always

00:22:52.609 --> 00:22:54.650
trying to get you off job seekers allowance both

00:22:54.650 --> 00:22:56.390
of us had the threat of having it taken off us

00:22:56.390 --> 00:22:58.450
at various times just because it was always intended

00:22:58.450 --> 00:23:00.869
as a very short -term benefit and the job market

00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:03.230
didn't support people getting into work quickly

00:23:03.230 --> 00:23:06.619
like he graduated and And there were no law jobs.

00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:08.559
He had a law degree and couldn't get a law job.

00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:10.920
So started applying for literally anything else

00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.420
going and couldn't get anything else because

00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:13.799
they were like, well, you're overqualified and

00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:17.039
you'll leave in a month. So he was stuck. I was

00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:18.839
qualified for nothing except beauty therapy,

00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:20.319
which I didn't want to do. And there were no

00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:23.759
jobs going in that anyway. So, yeah, it was that

00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.759
constant threat of instability was a lot of a

00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:28.299
source of stress and some issues in the relationship

00:23:28.299 --> 00:23:30.819
itself rapidly became a source of stress once

00:23:30.819 --> 00:23:34.950
we were in the same place long term. But in terms

00:23:34.950 --> 00:23:37.049
of managing quality time together, that part

00:23:37.049 --> 00:23:39.930
ended up working out okay. Well, that's good.

00:23:40.130 --> 00:23:45.549
Yeah. Lucky you. I'd wanted to ask, obviously

00:23:45.549 --> 00:23:47.789
you talked about the conversations that you and

00:23:47.789 --> 00:23:50.069
your ex -partner had about potentially one of

00:23:50.069 --> 00:23:52.970
you moving and ultimately what led to the relationship

00:23:52.970 --> 00:23:55.809
ending was that that didn't feel like it was

00:23:55.809 --> 00:23:59.049
achievable. Yeah. Was that something that...

00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:01.740
You talked about early on at all. Was it that

00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:03.619
plans changed or was it one of those things that

00:24:03.619 --> 00:24:05.039
you just kind of tried to avoid looking at the

00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:08.019
problem until it became a bigger problem? I think

00:24:08.019 --> 00:24:12.799
probably a little bit of both. We acknowledged

00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:17.200
the distance and we kind of talked about the

00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.339
longevity of it early on. But I think we were

00:24:20.339 --> 00:24:22.420
probably a little bit naive about kind of how

00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:28.829
simple a process that might be. You know, I am

00:24:28.829 --> 00:24:32.029
good at what I do, but what I do is not an in

00:24:32.029 --> 00:24:35.509
-demand occupation. Yeah. You know, it's not

00:24:35.509 --> 00:24:38.710
like I'm some kind of tech bro or a surgeon or

00:24:38.710 --> 00:24:41.269
civil engineer or something like that, where

00:24:41.269 --> 00:24:42.809
you can say, actually, no, there is a shortage

00:24:42.809 --> 00:24:45.150
of those people. We will welcome you into our

00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:48.670
country. And my ex -partner was going through

00:24:48.670 --> 00:24:51.690
university and graduating. She kind of started

00:24:51.690 --> 00:24:53.990
a little bit later than you normally would. So

00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:56.250
it was kind of fairly new to the jobs world as

00:24:56.250 --> 00:25:01.589
well. It's a bit like your partner with a law

00:25:01.589 --> 00:25:05.690
degree and can't get a job kind of thing. Overqualified

00:25:05.690 --> 00:25:08.130
for a lot of jobs, underqualified for other jobs.

00:25:08.250 --> 00:25:11.170
Yeah. So the practicality of going through that

00:25:11.170 --> 00:25:13.750
application process to get into the country,

00:25:13.849 --> 00:25:18.089
I think we were probably quite naive about that.

00:25:18.450 --> 00:25:22.349
Yeah. And I think we concluded literally the

00:25:22.349 --> 00:25:24.369
only way that we could resolve this problem quickly

00:25:24.369 --> 00:25:27.900
is for us to get married. Yeah. And for me to

00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:30.299
go over there essentially on a green card. Yeah.

00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.299
That feels like a big thing to do, given that

00:25:34.299 --> 00:25:36.240
I was technically still married at the time.

00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:39.900
Yeah, that would have been an issue. You know,

00:25:39.980 --> 00:25:42.480
that would have been a challenging thing to do.

00:25:44.539 --> 00:25:46.759
So, yeah, I think it was probably a little bit

00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.140
of both and couldn't really see a way through

00:25:49.140 --> 00:25:53.710
it in that. That would have provided us with

00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:56.349
the level of stability at the other end that

00:25:56.349 --> 00:25:58.549
we both wanted. Because it would have been a

00:25:58.549 --> 00:26:00.690
little bit continuous if either me moving there

00:26:00.690 --> 00:26:05.150
or her moving here wouldn't have been a permanent

00:26:05.150 --> 00:26:08.390
move straight away. Yeah. Unless we get married.

00:26:08.730 --> 00:26:10.569
i think even if you get married there's still

00:26:10.569 --> 00:26:12.569
at least coming into this country there's quite

00:26:12.569 --> 00:26:15.190
a lengthy process where you have to reapply and

00:26:15.190 --> 00:26:17.089
confirm you're still married and confirm everything's

00:26:17.089 --> 00:26:19.329
going well it doesn't become permanent for a

00:26:19.329 --> 00:26:21.789
few years so i think there's always yeah it seems

00:26:21.789 --> 00:26:23.670
like a very high stress process for people i

00:26:23.670 --> 00:26:25.990
know who've been through it even coming in as

00:26:25.990 --> 00:26:28.750
a married couple yeah And if I was going to go

00:26:28.750 --> 00:26:31.049
there with employment, I would need to be sponsored

00:26:31.049 --> 00:26:34.210
by the organization bringing me in. And let's

00:26:34.210 --> 00:26:36.450
say I am a talented, intelligent person who is

00:26:36.450 --> 00:26:38.549
good at their job, but I do not possess the skills

00:26:38.549 --> 00:26:40.990
that are worth sponsoring someone to come internationally

00:26:40.990 --> 00:26:43.730
because I did a stupid business degree at university.

00:26:43.809 --> 00:26:46.529
At least you have a degree. I mean, yes, that

00:26:46.529 --> 00:26:49.190
is true. That is generally considered a good

00:26:49.190 --> 00:26:56.200
thing. Although I think the main thing that I

00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:58.039
learned from my degree is I don't want to work

00:26:58.039 --> 00:26:59.799
in marketing. Yeah, the main thing I learned

00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:01.559
from my beauty therapy qualification is I do

00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:03.180
not want to be a beauty therapist. It's funny

00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:06.480
how often further education does that. So why

00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:08.000
don't you tell us some of the things that you

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:09.900
can do if you're in a properly long distance

00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:12.079
relationship to keep things fun, Mix? I think

00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:14.240
one of the things I was conscious of when I was

00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:16.440
thinking through this episode was, and we will

00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:18.980
get to it, but everybody talks about how you

00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:22.619
deal with... a long distance relationship like

00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:25.920
how do you resolve the challenges yeah of a long

00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.559
distance relationship and that's really really

00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:29.420
important people have to think that stuff through

00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:31.940
but actually there's a load of stuff that you

00:27:31.940 --> 00:27:35.960
can do to maintain intimacy and closeness and

00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.039
are actually really fun there are some really

00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.519
nice things about the fact that you're at a distance

00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:42.119
which makes you think a little bit differently

00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.960
about how you approach the relationship i just

00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:47.980
think it's i wanted to start with that yeah rather

00:27:47.980 --> 00:27:49.880
than the oh here are all the problems you need

00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.440
to think about Here is a list of things to put

00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:54.000
you off from having a long distance relationship

00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:55.980
with someone because they can be really fulfilling

00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:59.740
and really good relationships. Yeah. And to be

00:27:59.740 --> 00:28:01.779
fair, my ex -partner was really helpful with

00:28:01.779 --> 00:28:04.000
thinking about this because when I first sent

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.839
her my thoughts, it was a list of... here's a

00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.160
bunch of stuff you have to think about. And she

00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:10.720
reminded me that actually we had a really good

00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:15.259
time. I hope her feelings weren't too hurt by

00:28:15.259 --> 00:28:17.980
the initial version of the outline, just listing

00:28:17.980 --> 00:28:24.720
all the problems. So I think the main thing for

00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:27.900
me as a certified clingy bitch was, as I said

00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:30.940
before, the constant conversation. It was literally

00:28:30.940 --> 00:28:34.400
a three -year conversation. that didn't really

00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:38.920
end and you learn so much about a person's who

00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:40.880
a person is what their routine is what their

00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.059
life is like by having that kind of narration

00:28:44.059 --> 00:28:47.380
and i probably found it easier than i have in

00:28:47.380 --> 00:28:49.819
other relationships to pick up on things that

00:28:49.819 --> 00:28:53.220
are important to them and pick up on things that

00:28:53.220 --> 00:28:56.039
would be difficult to them Because there was

00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:57.980
that written record, I managed to retain it a

00:28:57.980 --> 00:29:00.160
little bit better than I think I sometimes have

00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.059
in other relationships. So it's nice to have

00:29:03.059 --> 00:29:06.079
that kind of almost written soundtrack is a stupid

00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:09.019
thing to say. But that's kind of what it's like.

00:29:09.500 --> 00:29:12.160
No, that makes sense. I like that. You just had

00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.019
this constant stream going on all the time. And

00:29:15.019 --> 00:29:17.559
it was genuinely really nice to wake up and have

00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:21.680
sometimes over 100 messages to kind of go through.

00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:23.420
Yeah. Because something exciting was happening.

00:29:23.769 --> 00:29:28.609
something interesting was happening. She likes

00:29:28.609 --> 00:29:31.650
to watch college football. I like to watch college

00:29:31.650 --> 00:29:33.170
football now. She got me into college football,

00:29:33.289 --> 00:29:34.650
which is another really good thing that came

00:29:34.650 --> 00:29:38.609
out of our relationship. But at the time, we

00:29:38.609 --> 00:29:40.829
hadn't fathomed a way for me to watch it with

00:29:40.829 --> 00:29:43.049
her because of the time difference and not having

00:29:43.049 --> 00:29:45.230
access to it. So she would commentate the game

00:29:45.230 --> 00:29:47.109
to me and give me the highlights. So I would

00:29:47.109 --> 00:29:49.029
wake up and there would be this long screed of

00:29:49.029 --> 00:29:52.670
texts from her, which was talking about the game.

00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:59.640
So I thought that was really, really sweet and

00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.380
intimate and really nice and always good fun.

00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:05.059
And I think that it makes you think about dates

00:30:05.059 --> 00:30:09.440
as well a little bit differently. Or how you

00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:12.599
can replicate the date experience when you are

00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:14.819
a long way from each other. And again, this is

00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:16.960
the benefit of living in the age that we do with

00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:21.279
the technology that we have. So a lot of the

00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:25.079
time... we both have Disney Plus accounts, and

00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.039
I think you can still do it. You could set up

00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:30.539
a watch party on Disney Plus. So you could set

00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:33.460
a movie going, invite someone to join you, and

00:30:33.460 --> 00:30:35.400
you could watch it together, like synced up.

00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:37.500
Yeah. And it didn't require you, because you

00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:40.119
could do the same with Netflix as long as you've

00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:42.220
got access to the same catalogue. But it didn't

00:30:42.220 --> 00:30:43.980
require you to do that thing of, right, I'm going

00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:48.000
to push play three, two, one, now. Yeah. Because

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:49.940
it's essentially the same stream that it's giving

00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:52.890
to both of you. Yeah, that's really cool. So

00:30:52.890 --> 00:30:54.990
we would have that on the TV or on the laptop

00:30:54.990 --> 00:30:58.410
and then we would be on a voice call. We wouldn't

00:30:58.410 --> 00:31:01.930
necessarily say a lot because we were watching

00:31:01.930 --> 00:31:04.789
the film, but it was just a really nice way of

00:31:04.789 --> 00:31:07.470
replicating what we do, where we sit and watch

00:31:07.470 --> 00:31:10.430
TV and occasionally we talk to each other. Yeah,

00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:12.849
that's really nice. But she was very much a person

00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:15.589
who, if she had thoughts, she had to pause. Yeah.

00:31:16.289 --> 00:31:21.460
So like, you know, like a 90 -minute movie. would

00:31:21.460 --> 00:31:25.839
very rarely be watched in 90 minutes. Because

00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:28.079
if she had thoughts to share, she needed to pause

00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:32.160
the movie and then tell me about them. But like

00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:33.920
doing joint activities, making sure you've got

00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.380
plenty of time, phone calls or FaceTiming and

00:31:36.380 --> 00:31:38.799
stuff like that. There was a few times where,

00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:40.519
because of the way that she fucked her sleep

00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:45.299
schedule, when I woke up, she was still awake.

00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:48.119
So sometimes we would have like a, like if I

00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:50.380
was driving to work, we would talk when I was

00:31:50.380 --> 00:31:53.440
in the car. Yeah. That kind of thing. And finding

00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.279
ways to do activities together using technology.

00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:57.960
I was wondering about that when you said about

00:31:57.960 --> 00:31:59.980
movies. Is that something that carried over into

00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:01.500
other things like go for a walk together, for

00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:04.180
example? Yeah. Yeah. Or if either of us had like

00:32:04.180 --> 00:32:06.019
a long drive to do, we would keep each other

00:32:06.019 --> 00:32:08.059
company. That was more when she had to drive

00:32:08.059 --> 00:32:10.740
places because she lives in a place where you

00:32:10.740 --> 00:32:12.759
have to drive two hours to get anywhere. Yeah.

00:32:15.309 --> 00:32:17.109
But yeah, kind of finding those opportunities

00:32:17.109 --> 00:32:20.849
to do things together, finding ways to be together

00:32:20.849 --> 00:32:28.049
when you can't do the thing together. I think

00:32:28.049 --> 00:32:32.750
there's a real joy that comes from that and it

00:32:32.750 --> 00:32:35.210
makes you appreciate really small mundane things

00:32:35.210 --> 00:32:40.390
a lot more than you might. So like you talked

00:32:40.390 --> 00:32:43.480
about going for a walk. I like to go out and

00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:45.900
wander along the coast. And the number of pictures

00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:48.660
of things that I saw that I took and sent to

00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:55.579
her is just ridiculous compared to now. I have

00:32:55.579 --> 00:32:58.059
this thing where I tend not to take loads and

00:32:58.059 --> 00:32:59.900
loads of pictures because I prefer to be in the

00:32:59.900 --> 00:33:02.380
moment. But actually in that relationship, it

00:33:02.380 --> 00:33:04.950
was important to be in the moment with her. and

00:33:04.950 --> 00:33:07.490
she would do the same for me it feels really

00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:09.450
kind of close and intimate to do that and being

00:33:09.450 --> 00:33:11.990
really mindful about that kind of thing and you

00:33:11.990 --> 00:33:13.710
know showing this is this is what's happening

00:33:13.710 --> 00:33:15.230
this is what i can see this is what i'm doing

00:33:15.230 --> 00:33:17.690
because ordinarily you would be here i just thought

00:33:17.690 --> 00:33:20.910
did you take selfies mix because she would have

00:33:20.910 --> 00:33:26.589
wanted to look upon you i took some selfies yes

00:33:26.589 --> 00:33:31.829
because you hate to take a selfie i do yes well

00:33:31.829 --> 00:33:36.420
we used to have a thing where um I mean, it started

00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:40.819
out as part of our DS dynamic, but we had a thing

00:33:40.819 --> 00:33:43.059
of sharing outfit the day. So I would, yeah,

00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.200
I would take a selfie most days, a mirror selfie.

00:33:46.339 --> 00:33:48.380
So that I was like, this is what I look like

00:33:48.380 --> 00:33:52.380
today. To be fair, you did that for me a little

00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:54.539
bit when we were first together as well. Like

00:33:54.539 --> 00:33:56.240
on days that we didn't spend together, you would

00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:58.809
sometimes send me a mirror selfie. But as soon

00:33:58.809 --> 00:34:00.670
as I started spending more than half the week

00:34:00.670 --> 00:34:03.069
here, the selfies stopped. You are very glad

00:34:03.069 --> 00:34:05.109
to get away from having to take pictures of yourself.

00:34:05.769 --> 00:34:09.190
Yeah, always, always good to do that. But yeah,

00:34:09.289 --> 00:34:11.949
like outfit pictures, pictures of where we are,

00:34:11.989 --> 00:34:13.630
pictures of the food that we're having, all of

00:34:13.630 --> 00:34:16.210
that kind of stuff that you would normally see

00:34:16.210 --> 00:34:19.449
in a relationship where you are physically close.

00:34:19.969 --> 00:34:21.829
You can kind of replicate in a long distance

00:34:21.829 --> 00:34:23.809
relationship. I like silly little traditions

00:34:23.809 --> 00:34:26.090
as well when, you know, if I had to go into the

00:34:26.090 --> 00:34:30.309
city. I would park in the same car park on the

00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:33.170
same level in pretty much the same spot. And

00:34:33.170 --> 00:34:34.789
I would take a picture of the view across the

00:34:34.789 --> 00:34:37.849
river and I would send that to her. Yeah. Because

00:34:37.849 --> 00:34:40.670
you really like the view. It is a good view.

00:34:40.989 --> 00:34:44.849
It is a really good view. So it's little things

00:34:44.849 --> 00:34:47.590
like that, that you just take joy in those mundane

00:34:47.590 --> 00:34:50.469
moments that you can share with someone, even

00:34:50.469 --> 00:34:52.070
though they're not, even though they're not there.

00:34:52.190 --> 00:34:55.489
Yeah. You know, it was very nice. It was also

00:34:55.489 --> 00:34:58.929
really nice getting mail. Yeah. It sounds a little

00:34:58.929 --> 00:35:01.050
bit silly, but sending each other little gifts

00:35:01.050 --> 00:35:03.670
was a really nice thing to do. It was really

00:35:03.670 --> 00:35:05.429
exciting because it's come all the way from America.

00:35:05.929 --> 00:35:08.489
And we kind of made that a little bit harder

00:35:08.489 --> 00:35:10.690
for ourselves than it necessarily needed to be

00:35:10.690 --> 00:35:14.030
because you can probably send stuff using Amazon,

00:35:14.170 --> 00:35:16.789
which Amazon just sends from their warehouse

00:35:16.789 --> 00:35:20.960
to the person. In the other country. Yeah, I

00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:22.420
think you said you did that sometimes, didn't

00:35:22.420 --> 00:35:25.679
you? Like getting her a specific gift that you

00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:28.920
could just get from Amazon. Yeah. But not always.

00:35:29.179 --> 00:35:33.460
But yeah, like getting a little parcel with like

00:35:33.460 --> 00:35:37.119
USPS on it or Royal Mail in our case if I'm sending

00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:38.980
stuff that way. It's just really nice. Yeah.

00:35:39.739 --> 00:35:41.639
Yeah, that part sounds like it would be really

00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:44.139
fun because I think one of the things that sucks

00:35:44.139 --> 00:35:47.519
about living in the future is no one gets exciting

00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.610
mail anymore. yeah when we get mail it's always

00:35:50.610 --> 00:35:54.769
from the tax people or it's a bill and very rarely

00:35:54.769 --> 00:35:56.670
even bills most of those are digital as well

00:35:56.670 --> 00:35:59.289
yeah usually it's just spam it's like here's

00:35:59.289 --> 00:36:01.369
a leaflet for something you don't care about

00:36:01.369 --> 00:36:04.190
yeah and that's it and and it'll go days without

00:36:04.190 --> 00:36:05.889
getting stuff where i remember being a little

00:36:05.889 --> 00:36:10.789
kid just pre -email where you would get postcards

00:36:10.789 --> 00:36:13.650
from friends and family members and like people

00:36:13.650 --> 00:36:15.530
were still doing things where you could like

00:36:15.530 --> 00:36:18.690
sign up to get a pen pal and people would send

00:36:18.690 --> 00:36:20.670
each other packages a lot more and it would come

00:36:20.670 --> 00:36:23.269
from the person rather than coming from amazon

00:36:23.269 --> 00:36:25.570
yeah and then that's all kind of disappeared

00:36:25.570 --> 00:36:27.469
and there's something really exciting about mail

00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:29.460
Yeah. We should do that. We live in the same

00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:31.340
house, but we should just do that. Send each

00:36:31.340 --> 00:36:35.760
other things. Yeah. I once, years ago, I have

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:38.539
this friend and we had this really annoying in

00:36:38.539 --> 00:36:40.760
joke that ran for a long time that ended up really

00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:42.719
pissing him off where we accused him of wanting

00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:44.840
to have sex with a tiger. He did not. There was

00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:46.480
no reason for it. There was no basis for it.

00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:48.860
It was just. Just a joke. Just one of those jokes

00:36:48.860 --> 00:36:51.420
that went way too far. Yeah. But one time I was

00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:53.860
out shopping and I saw a pack of like party napkins

00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:56.280
with tigers on them. So I bought this pack of

00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:59.039
napkins and I bought a big box of envelopes and

00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:02.000
I mailed the tiger napkins to him one at a time,

00:37:02.019 --> 00:37:05.260
a day or two apart. So he just continuously was

00:37:05.260 --> 00:37:08.260
getting tiger napkins through the post for a

00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:12.739
couple of weeks. Oh, that is mean. That is cruel.

00:37:13.059 --> 00:37:20.460
But fun. It's funny. Really, really funny. There's

00:37:20.460 --> 00:37:22.820
something so much more personal about mail. Yeah.

00:37:22.900 --> 00:37:25.219
Both in a nice way and also we want to be with

00:37:25.219 --> 00:37:32.280
someone. Yeah, yeah. The poor lad got like literally

00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:34.119
every single one of his Christmas presents that

00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:36.300
year was tiger themed from various friends. Yeah,

00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:37.900
I remember you telling me. Which might have been

00:37:37.900 --> 00:37:40.480
the point where the joke started to need to be

00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:47.800
stopped. Yeah. Poor guy. Can't believe he trusted

00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:50.619
me to do a speech at his wedding. Yeah. I did

00:37:50.619 --> 00:37:52.280
not mention any tigers. I was going to say, you

00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:55.760
were very well behaved. I think you had received

00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:58.840
the message. Yeah. I think even just that one

00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:01.360
joke aside, I am known for being the person in

00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:03.380
the friend group who will just roast people relentlessly.

00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:05.800
And I think everyone was expecting the sort of

00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:08.500
stereotypical best man speech that goes a bit

00:38:08.500 --> 00:38:11.300
too far. And I ended up just being really nice

00:38:11.300 --> 00:38:13.900
and genuine and saying lovely things and making

00:38:13.900 --> 00:38:18.110
people cry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Which was unexpected

00:38:18.110 --> 00:38:21.110
and a good surprise, I think. Yes, it was a good

00:38:21.110 --> 00:38:23.590
surprise for everybody. I remember that everybody,

00:38:24.170 --> 00:38:26.530
because there was a few people who gave speeches,

00:38:26.570 --> 00:38:30.150
wasn't there? And everybody just kind of talked

00:38:30.150 --> 00:38:34.570
about how lovely they both are. You know, and

00:38:34.570 --> 00:38:36.929
everybody was getting a bit emotional about it.

00:38:37.409 --> 00:38:40.909
It was really nice. Yeah, it was a really nice

00:38:40.909 --> 00:38:43.570
day. But yeah, none of us roasted them. There

00:38:43.570 --> 00:38:44.949
were definitely funny moments in the speeches,

00:38:45.010 --> 00:38:47.750
but none of us went for the... that version of

00:38:47.750 --> 00:38:51.130
the the speech no nobody gave that yeah let's

00:38:51.130 --> 00:38:53.269
say the typical best man speech anyway we have

00:38:53.269 --> 00:38:56.530
diverted as we like to so you'd mentioned that

00:38:56.530 --> 00:38:58.610
your original outline of this was just a bunch

00:38:58.610 --> 00:39:00.789
of problems to solve and things to think about

00:39:00.789 --> 00:39:03.070
yeah um from what you've talked about already

00:39:03.070 --> 00:39:05.710
you mentioned that that she really messed up

00:39:05.710 --> 00:39:07.030
her sleep pattern so i'm guessing one of the

00:39:07.030 --> 00:39:10.309
problems on your list was time zones mix Yeah,

00:39:10.409 --> 00:39:13.829
definitely was. There's a five hour time distance

00:39:13.829 --> 00:39:16.809
between the UK and Eastern time in the US. So

00:39:16.809 --> 00:39:20.210
not the most extreme time difference in the world,

00:39:20.269 --> 00:39:26.070
but like a really awkward one. Yeah. You know,

00:39:26.070 --> 00:39:29.909
because if we wanted to have time together when

00:39:29.909 --> 00:39:32.769
I woke up, I would need to get up at six in the

00:39:32.769 --> 00:39:37.309
morning at the latest. And she would be up until

00:39:37.309 --> 00:39:41.420
1am. Yeah. At the earliest. So, yeah, if you're

00:39:41.420 --> 00:39:44.699
in a relationship that spans time zones, you

00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:47.039
really need to think about how you schedule your

00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.639
time together and how you deal with sleep. I

00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:58.659
am not capable of being a nighttime person, both

00:39:58.659 --> 00:40:01.480
physically and psychologically, but also because

00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:05.199
of the job that I have. Yeah. I am expected to

00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:10.940
be at work during. standard office hours so there

00:40:10.940 --> 00:40:16.039
was a limit to what I could do but yeah her sleep

00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:21.980
pattern was just ridiculous it's a miracle that

00:40:21.980 --> 00:40:26.179
she managed to function because it wasn't like

00:40:26.179 --> 00:40:27.960
if she went to bed really late she could kind

00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:30.500
of sleep in all day the next day to recover that

00:40:30.500 --> 00:40:33.420
wasn't an option for her either um because that

00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:35.619
is what some people do isn't it yeah hope who

00:40:35.619 --> 00:40:37.679
we've had on the podcast before had a one year

00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:40.719
one year ish relationship um with a woman in

00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:43.539
beijing yeah and literally hope just switched

00:40:43.539 --> 00:40:45.840
on to chinese time for that entire year but i

00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:48.900
had a night shift job and could do that so yeah

00:40:48.900 --> 00:40:51.320
it's not an insurmountable problem but it is

00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:53.000
something to think about especially if you are

00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:55.920
like both of us and i mean both of us and both

00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.579
me and my ex -partner if you're clingy as fuck

00:40:58.579 --> 00:41:01.750
then you're not gonna want to sleep No. When

00:41:01.750 --> 00:41:03.530
your favourite person is awake, you're not going

00:41:03.530 --> 00:41:06.349
to want to do that. So it can be tricky to navigate.

00:41:08.550 --> 00:41:11.989
And weirdly, part of our DS dynamic was me trying

00:41:11.989 --> 00:41:14.230
to enforce bedtime. You were both the problem

00:41:14.230 --> 00:41:17.369
and the solution. Yeah. And I found that really

00:41:17.369 --> 00:41:20.030
difficult to do. Yeah. Because I was like, yeah,

00:41:20.050 --> 00:41:21.710
you need to sleep. But at the same time, if you

00:41:21.710 --> 00:41:26.349
go to bed, then you're not here, which is sad.

00:41:26.769 --> 00:41:28.989
So yeah, that is definitely something to think

00:41:28.989 --> 00:41:31.760
about. I suppose. And actually kind of more fundamentally

00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:34.059
thinking about the kind of person that you are

00:41:34.059 --> 00:41:36.699
in a relationship. If you are a really clingy

00:41:36.699 --> 00:41:39.800
person, if you like physical connection and physical

00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:42.860
touch, then you have to think about is a relationship

00:41:42.860 --> 00:41:44.760
where you are not going to be spending very much

00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:47.000
time physically together. Something that is good

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:49.039
for your mental health. Yeah. Something that

00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:51.880
is good for the relationship. I would agree with

00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:54.360
that. I think that the long distance, longish

00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:57.219
distance relationship I had is the longest I

00:41:57.219 --> 00:42:00.500
would have been able to sustain. both in terms

00:42:00.500 --> 00:42:02.280
of the distance we were from each other and the

00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.219
period of time that we were long distance before

00:42:04.219 --> 00:42:08.619
we moved to the same city yeah um i've recognized

00:42:08.619 --> 00:42:11.639
that about myself since forever that i wouldn't

00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:13.360
a lot of people i knew when i was a teenager

00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:15.480
were getting into long distance relationships

00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.699
with people in other countries and i had a lot

00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:19.840
of online friends at that age who were in america

00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:22.159
and canada and sometimes other places and it

00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:24.719
was great for friendship and it was great for

00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:26.719
having people to socialize with on the internet

00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:29.159
and chat about our weird little internet hobbies

00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:32.139
with yeah but i knew i recognized about myself

00:42:32.139 --> 00:42:33.619
that that wouldn't have worked as a relationship

00:42:33.619 --> 00:42:37.039
for me i need i need too much actual meet space

00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:39.960
time with a person yeah because i like texting

00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:43.059
but i think from the way you talk about it it

00:42:43.059 --> 00:42:46.059
seems like texting feels a lot closer to real

00:42:46.059 --> 00:42:48.280
world quality time for you than it does for me

00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:51.079
Yeah. Texting is only ever a method of sharing

00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:52.880
information and getting to know someone. For

00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.059
me, it doesn't feel like quality time. Yeah,

00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:58.360
I think that's fair. It felt like quality time

00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:01.840
for me, but I can see how it is a different type

00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.360
of quality time. And it's almost like the way

00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:06.900
that that relationship worked, it was almost

00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:09.000
like it was compensating for the lack of physical

00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.679
closeness. If I can't be physically close to

00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:13.920
you, we will be in constant communication in

00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.059
another way. That totally makes sense because

00:43:16.059 --> 00:43:18.260
the way you describe it, that's essentially like

00:43:18.260 --> 00:43:21.400
a continuous three year conversation. Isn't how

00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:23.579
I experience you. We chat a lot. That's why we

00:43:23.579 --> 00:43:25.519
have a podcast. We chat a lot. Yeah. But we're

00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:27.340
also both pretty comfortable with sitting in

00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:28.900
sort of comfortable shared silence for quite

00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:31.320
long periods. And yeah, things like looking at

00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:33.219
our phones, looking at the TV, listening to music,

00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:35.219
even on drives and stuff. We'll quite often just

00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:39.710
kind of zone out and and relax. Yeah. So. I don't

00:43:39.710 --> 00:43:42.110
experience a continued conversation with you,

00:43:42.150 --> 00:43:43.969
but it makes sense because you're getting the

00:43:43.969 --> 00:43:46.530
physical quality time with me. Yeah. That maybe

00:43:46.530 --> 00:43:49.010
you don't need to sort of build that closeness

00:43:49.010 --> 00:43:52.969
in other ways. Yeah, I think so. And I think

00:43:52.969 --> 00:43:56.230
weirdly, ironically, I think if we, I would find

00:43:56.230 --> 00:43:59.789
a not long distance relationship where there

00:43:59.789 --> 00:44:03.329
was that constant conversation. So us living

00:44:03.329 --> 00:44:06.369
together and just constantly talking the entire

00:44:06.369 --> 00:44:10.579
time. i would find that really tiring yeah so

00:44:10.579 --> 00:44:12.559
it's almost like that kind of ideal world of

00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:15.460
i am able to be quiet in the space that i am

00:44:15.460 --> 00:44:19.800
in but i am also having a proxy of physical closeness

00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.480
with my partner yeah it's a it's a weird thing

00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:25.460
to think about when you when you do start to

00:44:25.460 --> 00:44:28.699
think about it because i i would find non -stop

00:44:28.699 --> 00:44:31.880
chatter in the real world really quite draining

00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:36.420
i do Yeah. That's a skill that I've definitely

00:44:36.420 --> 00:44:38.480
learned with you. I used to be very much an anxious

00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:40.340
talker and couldn't just sit in silence with

00:44:40.340 --> 00:44:43.300
anybody. And I've learned that it is not good

00:44:43.300 --> 00:44:45.480
for your brain to be relentlessly stimulated.

00:44:45.780 --> 00:44:48.380
And you do need some quiet time. And then that's

00:44:48.380 --> 00:44:50.179
allowed me to actually get comfortable with quiet

00:44:50.179 --> 00:44:52.199
time and go, no, if we sit in silence for an

00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.199
hour, that doesn't mean we've run out of things

00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:56.000
to say to each other. It means we're just chilling.

00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:58.179
And that's nice. Yeah. You have nothing to say

00:44:58.179 --> 00:45:03.699
right now. Yeah. And that's all right. But I

00:45:03.699 --> 00:45:06.539
suppose that, I mean, it's something that people

00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:08.079
have to think about if they're thinking about

00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:10.199
a long -term, long -distance relationship. But

00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:12.820
it is also because it's about making sure that

00:45:12.820 --> 00:45:15.059
your needs are met. Yeah. And actually, if you

00:45:15.059 --> 00:45:17.099
are someone who really values their own space

00:45:17.099 --> 00:45:20.280
and likes to spend a lot of time, physically

00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:22.840
spend a lot of time on their own, then that distance

00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:25.239
might not be so much of a challenge. Yeah. It

00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:27.820
kind of works the other way around. If you're

00:45:27.820 --> 00:45:32.179
not clingy as fuck like I am, if you are comfortable

00:45:32.179 --> 00:45:35.900
with that. bit of separation or that that's what

00:45:35.900 --> 00:45:38.139
helps to energize you in a relationship is to

00:45:38.139 --> 00:45:41.780
have that separation then actually a relationship

00:45:41.780 --> 00:45:44.179
where you don't see each other every single day

00:45:44.179 --> 00:45:48.059
might work yeah you know that makes a lot of

00:45:48.059 --> 00:45:50.659
sense i think if you are i was going to say more

00:45:50.659 --> 00:45:52.480
introverted but you're quite introverted but

00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:54.539
still like to spend every second of every day

00:45:54.539 --> 00:45:57.179
glued to me which is great yeah um for some people

00:45:57.179 --> 00:45:59.159
i think that introversion does extend even to

00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:01.079
their closest relationships and they do still

00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:03.769
need alone time from their partner and don't

00:46:03.769 --> 00:46:05.230
want to be in each other's space all the time

00:46:05.230 --> 00:46:08.989
and for that long distance probably if anything

00:46:08.989 --> 00:46:10.690
is going to be a benefit it's certainly not going

00:46:10.690 --> 00:46:12.329
to feel like anywhere near as much of a challenge

00:46:12.329 --> 00:46:15.530
no but it's one thing i'd be interested to hear

00:46:15.530 --> 00:46:17.889
what you think one of the challenges that we

00:46:17.889 --> 00:46:22.349
had earlier on is picking up context from the

00:46:22.349 --> 00:46:26.750
written word yeah so like if i saying something

00:46:26.750 --> 00:46:29.650
to you and texting it to you are two very different

00:46:29.650 --> 00:46:33.329
things like there's no tone there's no facial

00:46:33.329 --> 00:46:36.610
expressions all of that kind of stuff and it

00:46:36.610 --> 00:46:39.750
took us a while to navigate that and i guess

00:46:39.750 --> 00:46:41.550
i mean i'm interested because it's not quite

00:46:41.550 --> 00:46:43.469
the same for me and you because we didn't have

00:46:43.469 --> 00:46:45.670
that distance but we were texting quite a lot

00:46:45.670 --> 00:46:47.750
yeah and whether that was something that came

00:46:47.750 --> 00:46:50.550
up for you around understanding what people are

00:46:50.550 --> 00:46:52.349
actually meaning when you've just got flat text

00:46:52.349 --> 00:46:55.280
on a screen i tend to be quite good at tone from

00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:59.619
text mix i think because i was very kind of isolated

00:46:59.619 --> 00:47:02.099
from my peer group when i was a kid so i spent

00:47:02.099 --> 00:47:05.099
a lot of time talking to online friends so that's

00:47:05.099 --> 00:47:07.400
been quite normalized for me is being able to

00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:09.619
understand people well when it is all text -based

00:47:09.619 --> 00:47:12.679
and then add to that a layer of trauma with associated

00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:15.059
hyper vigilance i'm very sensitive to changes

00:47:15.059 --> 00:47:17.400
in tone so i tend to pick them up through text

00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:19.679
and that can mean that i misread it and think

00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:21.059
that someone's annoyed just because they've used

00:47:21.059 --> 00:47:24.219
a full stop yeah but i think it helps you don't

00:47:24.489 --> 00:47:27.650
You don't text like a Gen X. You definitely text

00:47:27.650 --> 00:47:29.909
like a millennial. Right. I can read millennials.

00:47:30.869 --> 00:47:33.929
Okay. Gen X and older. I have no idea what that

00:47:33.929 --> 00:47:36.190
means. So a lot of people your age and older

00:47:36.190 --> 00:47:38.809
will like use properly correct grammar in all

00:47:38.809 --> 00:47:40.929
of their texts, including full stops. Right.

00:47:41.030 --> 00:47:43.309
They won't use any emojis or they'll use very

00:47:43.309 --> 00:47:46.130
few. Yeah, yeah. That makes it really hard to

00:47:46.130 --> 00:47:48.489
read tone. If people are writing like they're

00:47:48.489 --> 00:47:50.610
writing a formal letter, it always comes off

00:47:50.610 --> 00:47:53.380
like they're a little bit pissed off. where you

00:47:53.380 --> 00:47:57.659
use emojis you will not bother with full stops

00:47:57.659 --> 00:47:59.699
you will not always bother with capitalization

00:47:59.699 --> 00:48:02.639
apart from protocol stuff yeah like that makes

00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:04.559
it a lot easier to follow tone because it's more

00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:07.159
conversational writing yeah yeah and you use

00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:10.690
millennial selfies no And you use millennial

00:48:10.690 --> 00:48:13.289
emojis. You don't use the Gen Z emojis because

00:48:13.289 --> 00:48:14.789
I don't understand what the fuck they're saying

00:48:14.789 --> 00:48:16.510
half the time. What does the dead rose mean?

00:48:16.650 --> 00:48:19.250
I don't understand. No idea. And we're not supposed

00:48:19.250 --> 00:48:21.510
to use the cry laughing emoji anymore. Apparently

00:48:21.510 --> 00:48:23.590
that's cringe, but it's the best one. Fuck off.

00:48:23.889 --> 00:48:27.630
It's the best one. Do you use the one? I genuinely

00:48:27.630 --> 00:48:30.289
can't remember now. Do you use the one where

00:48:30.289 --> 00:48:33.130
it's straight on or the one where it's at an

00:48:33.130 --> 00:48:34.909
angle? I usually use the one where it's straight

00:48:34.909 --> 00:48:37.369
on mix in texting, but on Teams I use the one

00:48:37.369 --> 00:48:39.760
on an angle and I don't know why. Oh, well, there

00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:42.280
you go. But apparently both are cringe and we

00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:43.699
shouldn't be using them. What do they know? They're

00:48:43.699 --> 00:48:50.239
fucking children. I was there when the internet

00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:53.059
was invented. I was there when emojis were invented.

00:48:53.219 --> 00:49:02.739
Do not cite the old magic to me. But that is

00:49:02.739 --> 00:49:04.239
definitely something me and my ex -partner had

00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:07.360
to learn. And it manifested itself in really

00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:09.679
quite strange ways. It's interesting you talk

00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:14.280
about using full stops. Because actually, I think

00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.219
that is something that I've learned from her

00:49:16.219 --> 00:49:20.019
is not to send paragraphs. If you've got multiple

00:49:20.019 --> 00:49:22.920
things to say, send them as individual messages.

00:49:23.139 --> 00:49:25.719
That's what she would do to me. She would send

00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:29.280
one thought comprised of several sentences. as

00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:31.260
separate text messages so i've got i kind of

00:49:31.260 --> 00:49:34.760
got away from forming full paragraphs but also

00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:38.920
really subtle things like we didn't use and we

00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:42.199
still don't when we when we text don't tend to

00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:46.639
use laughing emojis we use the word heehee right

00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:50.940
like heehee or heehee if it's a big laugh but

00:49:50.940 --> 00:49:54.559
what we learned was if you write heehee that

00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:58.010
is something funny and amusing if you write the

00:49:58.010 --> 00:50:02.030
word ha -ha, H -A -H -A, that means that you're

00:50:02.030 --> 00:50:03.489
actually quite annoyed by what is occurring.

00:50:04.170 --> 00:50:08.130
Right. You know, my car broke down, so I have

00:50:08.130 --> 00:50:11.909
to go and get it fixed now, ha -ha. Ah. Do you

00:50:11.909 --> 00:50:13.590
ever have trouble reading my texts then, because

00:50:13.590 --> 00:50:16.090
I use ha -ha the same way I use the cry laughing

00:50:16.090 --> 00:50:19.110
emoji, where I think something's funny. I'm pleased.

00:50:19.369 --> 00:50:23.309
There is still, I think I'm learning, but I think

00:50:23.309 --> 00:50:25.570
there is still that kind of throwback in my head.

00:50:25.730 --> 00:50:27.960
Yeah. they have to check okay think about the

00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:29.739
context think about what they're saying and and

00:50:29.739 --> 00:50:32.099
decipher from there but yeah it's like subtle

00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:34.880
little things like that of differentiating between

00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:36.860
actually laughing at something that is funny

00:50:36.860 --> 00:50:42.940
and an ironic this is a pile of shit yeah anything

00:50:42.940 --> 00:50:46.500
um and did you sometimes have to ask each other

00:50:46.500 --> 00:50:50.260
is this a a fun time or a displeasing time mix

00:50:50.260 --> 00:50:54.139
yeah yeah yeah um that that was definitely something

00:50:54.139 --> 00:50:57.380
that we we navigated as part of our ds dynamic

00:50:57.380 --> 00:50:59.599
and the way that we communicated with each other

00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:03.780
within that dynamic um but we talked in parentheses

00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:07.079
yeah as well like if we were having a conversation

00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:09.539
and we weren't sure of the tone but we didn't

00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:12.500
want to kind of derail the conversation we would

00:51:12.500 --> 00:51:16.699
send a text in brackets to check in yeah you

00:51:16.699 --> 00:51:18.360
know without kind of necessarily interrupting

00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:21.670
the it was It sounds silly when you say it, but

00:51:21.670 --> 00:51:23.469
it didn't interrupt the flow of the conversation.

00:51:23.829 --> 00:51:26.929
It was like a sidebar. Yeah. Going, just want

00:51:26.929 --> 00:51:28.849
to check. This is how I'm reading this situation.

00:51:28.929 --> 00:51:31.309
Is that okay? And then she would reply in parentheses.

00:51:31.929 --> 00:51:34.449
And then we would move on. Yeah. I can't be sure

00:51:34.449 --> 00:51:37.949
for certain, but I think we developed that while

00:51:37.949 --> 00:51:43.510
we were sexting. Right. It was a way of not interrupting

00:51:43.510 --> 00:51:47.269
necessarily the flow of the... sexy times i have

00:51:47.269 --> 00:51:49.670
an important question mix that has just occurred

00:51:49.670 --> 00:51:53.989
to me the little smile on your face did you send

00:51:53.989 --> 00:51:57.809
dick pics mix not as many as you would think

00:51:57.809 --> 00:52:01.530
because you are so reluctant to take and send

00:52:01.530 --> 00:52:04.329
dick pics and i suddenly thought like three year

00:52:04.329 --> 00:52:06.989
long distance relationship you must have done

00:52:06.989 --> 00:52:13.750
probably not many not as many as you might think

00:52:14.380 --> 00:52:16.760
But yeah, probably. Not as many as I would find.

00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:26.579
Not as many as you need. Yeah, probably, yeah.

00:52:27.420 --> 00:52:29.159
Yeah, I did. But I don't send them to you because

00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:31.300
you can see it whenever you want. Yeah. You see

00:52:31.300 --> 00:52:34.679
it every day. I would like to have images next.

00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:37.559
I would like to have a collection. I would like

00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:39.579
to be able to see it not only every day, but

00:52:39.579 --> 00:52:43.039
at all times. Whenever you want. No matter what

00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:45.780
we're doing. Yeah. Whip out a little dick pic

00:52:45.780 --> 00:52:52.719
to have a look at. Oh, yes. Yep. Ridiculous.

00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:56.599
I'm assuming you've cleared with your ex that

00:52:56.599 --> 00:52:58.760
you're allowed to talk about this. Yes. I'm not

00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:00.380
going to go into massive detail. No, that's fair.

00:53:00.380 --> 00:53:04.320
So aside from, I think, probably cruelly infrequent

00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:08.460
dick pics, how did you two manage with sex mix

00:53:08.460 --> 00:53:11.849
if you only met? In person, the ones in all that

00:53:11.849 --> 00:53:13.570
time, I imagine you had to get pretty creative.

00:53:14.230 --> 00:53:16.949
Yeah, we had to get comfortable with sexting.

00:53:17.030 --> 00:53:19.789
Yeah. Phone sex, for want of a better phrase.

00:53:20.010 --> 00:53:22.889
Yeah. I don't think we ever did it on, like,

00:53:22.929 --> 00:53:26.570
FaceTime. That surprises me, because that feels

00:53:26.570 --> 00:53:29.010
like the most natural to me. That feels like

00:53:29.010 --> 00:53:31.550
that would be the most natural. Yeah. We did

00:53:31.550 --> 00:53:35.989
it while we were on calls with each other. Yeah.

00:53:36.010 --> 00:53:40.510
But they were audio calls. Yeah. So there was

00:53:40.510 --> 00:53:46.269
lots of descriptive language going on. And there

00:53:46.269 --> 00:53:48.989
would be, much to your disappointment, you will

00:53:48.989 --> 00:53:53.429
learn, there was pictures shared. But I think

00:53:53.429 --> 00:53:55.690
we both felt a little bit awkward about doing

00:53:55.690 --> 00:53:59.369
it, doing that kind of stuff on a screen. And

00:53:59.369 --> 00:54:01.829
I don't know why. I can see that for you, though,

00:54:01.949 --> 00:54:04.809
because you are not... It took you a while to

00:54:04.809 --> 00:54:07.610
be comfy with any kind of pictures or videos

00:54:07.610 --> 00:54:10.860
of us playing. So I can imagine you, if you could

00:54:10.860 --> 00:54:14.179
see yourself during as well, that would freak

00:54:14.179 --> 00:54:19.039
you right out. Yeah, yeah. And I think she was

00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:20.880
probably the same as well. Probably not quite

00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:28.280
to the same extent as me. But yeah, that's an

00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:30.159
option for people to think about. I suppose if

00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:31.260
that's something that you're comfortable with,

00:54:31.300 --> 00:54:35.239
it's not something that we did. text -based or

00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:38.559
or on calls but also we use like those the kind

00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:44.980
of remote control toys yeah oh we're talking

00:54:44.980 --> 00:54:47.579
about sex and you've got the giggles because

00:54:47.579 --> 00:54:50.619
it immediately made me think of little little

00:54:50.619 --> 00:54:57.019
cars that you you have the little joystick for

00:54:57.019 --> 00:54:59.940
yeah in kind of that's what it made me think

00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:06.010
about when i said remote control toys Chasing

00:55:06.010 --> 00:55:08.409
her around at home with a remote -controlled

00:55:08.409 --> 00:55:10.849
car from 4 ,000 miles away. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:55:11.449 --> 00:55:14.230
And we tried out different brands. Different

00:55:14.230 --> 00:55:17.690
brands have different qualities to them. Some

00:55:17.690 --> 00:55:20.429
are better than others. Some have a better range

00:55:20.429 --> 00:55:22.650
of functions than others. Some have better connectivity

00:55:22.650 --> 00:55:27.889
than others. All of that sort of stuff. I will

00:55:27.889 --> 00:55:31.800
say that as a penis wielder... They are a little

00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:34.820
bit disappointing. Yeah. Yeah, don't really work

00:55:34.820 --> 00:55:39.599
for me. Like in terms of sensation. Yeah. It's

00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:42.219
not the stuff that we tried wasn't a massively.

00:55:42.460 --> 00:55:44.260
I don't think I've ever really seen any remote

00:55:44.260 --> 00:55:46.639
control toys for penis wielders. What kind of

00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:50.340
stuff did you try, Mix? It's essentially kind

00:55:50.340 --> 00:55:57.260
of really heavy equivalents of fleshlights. Right.

00:55:58.619 --> 00:56:04.059
And there's the i think it was the same one um

00:56:04.059 --> 00:56:08.500
but the one that i had either either the other

00:56:08.500 --> 00:56:12.739
person could just control it um so they would

00:56:12.739 --> 00:56:14.739
be on the app doing whatever they wanted to do

00:56:14.739 --> 00:56:16.840
while it was on my penis kind of kind of thing

00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:18.800
in the same way that you would with a vibrator

00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:20.739
in the other direction yeah kind of put it in

00:56:20.739 --> 00:56:23.139
and i control the vibrations and the speed and

00:56:23.139 --> 00:56:26.760
all of that kind of stuff um but the brand that

00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:31.659
we had you could sync up A vibrator with a masturbator.

00:56:31.780 --> 00:56:36.119
Right. So the theory is that if the vibrator

00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:38.539
is being thrusted and used in a particular way

00:56:38.539 --> 00:56:41.820
on one end, that feeling is replicated on the

00:56:41.820 --> 00:56:47.260
masturbator for the penis wielder. End of it.

00:56:47.420 --> 00:56:51.639
Yeah. To, I guess, mimic actually having sex.

00:56:51.940 --> 00:56:54.139
Yeah. Good idea in theory. Good idea in theory.

00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:57.800
bit shit in reality right from my perspective

00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:01.500
that those kind of toys were really very effective

00:57:01.500 --> 00:57:07.780
on on her yeah i am pleased to report um well

00:57:07.780 --> 00:57:10.619
i guess that depends how you how you define it

00:57:10.619 --> 00:57:15.219
i was particularly good at um getting her to

00:57:15.219 --> 00:57:19.360
the edge and then slowing down that does not

00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:22.519
surprise me turn the intensity right down that

00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:26.369
was a talent that i had Which I think she hated

00:57:26.369 --> 00:57:29.909
me a little bit for sometimes. And now I know

00:57:29.909 --> 00:57:32.070
where you learned that from. Yeah, because I've

00:57:32.070 --> 00:57:33.570
done that to you. You have, yeah. Not with a

00:57:33.570 --> 00:57:36.269
remote control toy mix, but when we were first

00:57:36.269 --> 00:57:38.889
together and not yet living together, our first

00:57:38.889 --> 00:57:40.670
experiment with surveillance kink was having

00:57:40.670 --> 00:57:43.849
a camera in my bedroom at the flat. And you watched

00:57:43.849 --> 00:57:45.900
me through the camera. told me to touch myself

00:57:45.900 --> 00:57:48.199
and then texted me telling me to stop. And you

00:57:48.199 --> 00:57:50.280
somehow managed to time the getting out of the

00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:52.599
camera app, sending the text, me receiving the

00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:55.059
text perfectly to be the most annoying moment

00:57:55.059 --> 00:57:58.219
possible. Quite impressive. And now I see that

00:57:58.219 --> 00:58:00.599
you had extensive practice. Yeah, I had quite

00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:06.719
a lot of experience of that. I'm surprised that

00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:08.480
she didn't get on a plane to come and slap you.

00:58:11.579 --> 00:58:15.360
True. Yeah. That would have been a reasonable

00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:22.840
hour to do. So yeah, I think for me, I mean,

00:58:22.860 --> 00:58:24.559
it was good. All of that kind of mutual stuff.

00:58:24.860 --> 00:58:28.940
You don't have to use a toy as a penis wielding.

00:58:28.940 --> 00:58:34.420
So that was always fun to do. But it took a little

00:58:34.420 --> 00:58:36.579
bit of getting used to. Yeah. Because I am very

00:58:36.579 --> 00:58:40.500
good in writing. I am not particularly good at

00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:43.420
out loud dirty talk. No, same. I need to plan

00:58:43.420 --> 00:58:46.769
ahead. Yeah, yeah. Like little bits of it I can

00:58:46.769 --> 00:58:51.489
do. Little snippets of filthy talk I can do,

00:58:51.530 --> 00:58:55.710
but kind of extended storytelling. Yeah. Dirty

00:58:55.710 --> 00:58:59.909
talk I cannot do. Write it down. Brilliant. Absolutely

00:58:59.909 --> 00:59:03.750
fine with all of that. But saying it out loud

00:59:03.750 --> 00:59:06.389
feels a little bit weird. Yeah. So that took

00:59:06.389 --> 00:59:08.769
a little bit of getting used to. So kind of thinking

00:59:08.769 --> 00:59:11.909
through how mutual gratification and sex works.

00:59:12.369 --> 00:59:16.500
Yeah. when you are any distance apart but thousands

00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:18.539
of miles in particular requires some thought

00:59:18.539 --> 00:59:22.059
definitely need to get very creative and yeah

00:59:22.059 --> 00:59:24.420
highly motivated i imagine to to keep things

00:59:24.420 --> 00:59:27.980
working well yeah yeah um and you have to have

00:59:27.980 --> 00:59:29.739
faith in your phone's bluetooth connection as

00:59:29.739 --> 00:59:33.760
well otherwise the phone will start edging you

00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:36.139
as well for the phone starts yeah yeah on more

00:59:36.139 --> 00:59:38.340
than one occasion it wasn't ever the transmission

00:59:38.340 --> 00:59:41.119
of the instruction from my phone to her phone

00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:43.159
or in the other direction it was the connection

00:59:43.159 --> 00:59:49.539
to the device yeah that was the problem um and

00:59:49.539 --> 00:59:51.639
the apps are a bit shit they're not app developers

00:59:51.639 --> 00:59:53.460
these people they're sex toy developers yeah

00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:56.840
so what would you say would be your like recommendation

00:59:56.840 --> 00:59:59.639
of toy brand or brands mix for people who are

00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:02.039
wanting to get into that kind of thing um i i

01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:05.969
think the lovents one's quite expensive probably

01:00:05.969 --> 01:00:07.769
at the more expensive end of things but really

01:00:07.769 --> 01:00:10.230
good quality like the the things themselves are

01:00:10.230 --> 01:00:13.650
quite good quality yeah um they went through

01:00:13.650 --> 01:00:15.389
a period where they kept fucking about with the

01:00:15.389 --> 01:00:18.510
app i think they have sorted it now because they

01:00:18.510 --> 01:00:20.530
had at one point they had an app for if you wanted

01:00:20.530 --> 01:00:22.409
to control it yourself but you had another app

01:00:22.409 --> 01:00:24.429
if you wanted to control somebody else's that

01:00:24.429 --> 01:00:27.050
seems needlessly convoluted yeah yeah and then

01:00:27.050 --> 01:00:28.590
i think they tried to bring them together and

01:00:28.590 --> 01:00:35.739
then they broke both um So that was, I think

01:00:35.739 --> 01:00:38.719
it was the Lovense where we had the vibrator

01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:41.159
and the masturbator that kind of could sync up.

01:00:41.320 --> 01:00:49.139
Yeah. We've tried WeVibe. But I don't think we

01:00:49.139 --> 01:00:52.619
used that very much. Didn't seem to be quite

01:00:52.619 --> 01:00:55.139
as effective. I think that was, yeah, we had

01:00:55.139 --> 01:00:58.079
the little WeVibe like click stimulator thing.

01:00:59.309 --> 01:01:01.070
But I couldn't connect to the fucking thing.

01:01:01.789 --> 01:01:04.190
Oh, no. It was a really dodgy thing. It was really

01:01:04.190 --> 01:01:07.530
inconsistent. Yeah. And edging it was really

01:01:07.530 --> 01:01:10.289
fun, but not in that way. Yeah. You want to be

01:01:10.289 --> 01:01:12.869
in control of it, not being failed by technology.

01:01:13.130 --> 01:01:16.190
Yeah, yeah. Lovense is definitely the one that

01:01:16.190 --> 01:01:17.869
I've heard the most good things about. So it

01:01:17.869 --> 01:01:19.710
makes sense that your experience backs that up.

01:01:19.809 --> 01:01:21.550
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're really good quality.

01:01:21.650 --> 01:01:24.449
And a good range of patterns and stuff with it

01:01:24.449 --> 01:01:26.250
as well. And that's also one way you can kind

01:01:26.250 --> 01:01:29.349
of get it to... work along with music as well.

01:01:29.590 --> 01:01:32.829
So if you have a song, it will vibrate along

01:01:32.829 --> 01:01:36.489
with the bass line, I guess. But it's not something

01:01:36.489 --> 01:01:39.730
we ever tried. I actually think I've got a lot

01:01:39.730 --> 01:01:43.289
of events upstairs. Yeah, I remember when we

01:01:43.289 --> 01:01:44.650
first got together, you mentioned that you had

01:01:44.650 --> 01:01:46.849
one and we were going to do some stuff while

01:01:46.849 --> 01:01:48.650
I wasn't living here and then I moved in. You

01:01:48.650 --> 01:01:51.730
immediately moved in. Yeah. And then we got a

01:01:51.730 --> 01:01:53.989
doxy and kind of any other sex toys now become

01:01:53.989 --> 01:01:58.380
redundant. True. I do love the doxy. You do love

01:01:58.380 --> 01:02:01.380
a doxy. Another thing that can be really difficult

01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:06.800
is navigating support for your partner through

01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:09.920
whether it's difficult days or changes in mental

01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:14.260
health, big life things that are difficult either

01:02:14.260 --> 01:02:17.280
physically or emotionally. You can feel really

01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:19.840
useless at a distance, I think. However supportive

01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:21.659
you're being, you just feel like you're not doing

01:02:21.659 --> 01:02:26.840
enough. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know,

01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:30.500
if either one of us has a bad day, we immediately

01:02:30.500 --> 01:02:33.280
say, well, what can I do to help? Yeah. What's

01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:35.900
going to help in this situation? We're both quite

01:02:35.900 --> 01:02:38.760
good, I think. I am probably less good at it

01:02:38.760 --> 01:02:40.699
than you, but I think we are both quite good

01:02:40.699 --> 01:02:43.639
at not immediately jumping into solution mode.

01:02:44.019 --> 01:02:46.559
Yeah. It's like, you know, what do you need?

01:02:46.980 --> 01:02:49.739
Do you need to vent? Do you need validation?

01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:52.989
Do you need solutions? Kind of. kind of thing

01:02:52.989 --> 01:02:54.690
it's so interesting you say you're less good

01:02:54.690 --> 01:02:57.010
at that than me because i am very solutions based

01:02:57.010 --> 01:02:59.389
and i really struggle not to jump into solutions

01:02:59.389 --> 01:03:02.510
so i'm glad that i'm masking that well um to

01:03:02.510 --> 01:03:04.489
the point where i get quite irritated if people

01:03:04.489 --> 01:03:06.789
don't want solutions it's like accept the solution

01:03:06.789 --> 01:03:12.090
i'm good at this no i don't ever feel like you're

01:03:12.090 --> 01:03:14.769
kind of jumping straight there or if you do because

01:03:14.769 --> 01:03:16.730
i am a little bit like that as well it's like

01:03:16.730 --> 01:03:20.559
how can how can i help you fix this yeah is often

01:03:20.559 --> 01:03:22.800
my kind of knee -jerk response to that. Yeah.

01:03:22.900 --> 01:03:24.519
So if there is a little bit of that coming from

01:03:24.519 --> 01:03:27.019
you to me, then that's okay because it would

01:03:27.019 --> 01:03:33.500
come from me to you. Yeah. In that way. But you're

01:03:33.500 --> 01:03:36.440
really limited. If you're physically separate,

01:03:36.659 --> 01:03:39.320
you can't even give them a cuddle and say, it'll

01:03:39.320 --> 01:03:42.059
be okay. I mean, you can say it'll be okay, but

01:03:42.059 --> 01:03:44.159
you can't kind of give that physical reassurance.

01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:46.320
Yeah. And especially if it's something that is

01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:48.639
kind of like an ongoing thing that they're dealing

01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:51.670
with. yeah i think useless is the right word

01:03:51.670 --> 01:03:55.730
you can feel really quite useless yeah and and

01:03:55.730 --> 01:03:58.750
if you don't get it right you can also feel a

01:03:58.750 --> 01:04:00.730
little bit unsupported as well even though the

01:04:00.730 --> 01:04:02.489
other person is trying their best their best

01:04:02.489 --> 01:04:06.269
is pretty limited yeah like full of good intentions

01:04:06.269 --> 01:04:09.610
but not particularly effective yeah definitely

01:04:09.610 --> 01:04:11.809
i found that with like friendships over a long

01:04:11.809 --> 01:04:14.710
distance as well yeah and i really contrast that

01:04:14.710 --> 01:04:17.409
with when we were first dating there was a day

01:04:17.409 --> 01:04:19.630
where We hadn't planned to see each other. I

01:04:19.630 --> 01:04:21.230
think I was meant to be coming over here in like

01:04:21.230 --> 01:04:23.570
two or three days time. And I had a really bad

01:04:23.570 --> 01:04:26.570
wobble, like major insecurity, flare up, jealousy,

01:04:26.750 --> 01:04:31.010
just generally feeling like not myself and having

01:04:31.010 --> 01:04:33.550
a big freak out and a big breakdown about stuff.

01:04:34.010 --> 01:04:37.539
Yeah. And it was. It was feelings about our relationship,

01:04:37.659 --> 01:04:39.300
but it wasn't triggered by anything that you'd

01:04:39.300 --> 01:04:42.119
done wrong. It wasn't a conflict or anything.

01:04:42.219 --> 01:04:44.739
So there was a limited amount that just talking

01:04:44.739 --> 01:04:46.199
it out was going to, you know, if it had been

01:04:46.199 --> 01:04:48.000
an argument, we could have probably resolved

01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.420
that at a distance. But what I actually needed

01:04:50.420 --> 01:04:56.019
was to feel close to you. I needed that to like

01:04:56.019 --> 01:04:58.960
regulate me and get me out of my crazy spiral

01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:00.780
that I was in. And you were just immediately

01:05:00.780 --> 01:05:02.860
like, I'll come pick you up, like pack a bag.

01:05:03.630 --> 01:05:06.530
be outside in 20 minutes kind of thing yeah and

01:05:06.530 --> 01:05:09.210
i think about that a lot when we talk about long

01:05:09.210 --> 01:05:11.750
distance where if we hadn't been able to do that

01:05:11.750 --> 01:05:13.670
i'm sure our relationship would have survived

01:05:13.670 --> 01:05:15.190
and i would have been fine but i think i would

01:05:15.190 --> 01:05:16.929
have had a really bad night i think i was just

01:05:16.929 --> 01:05:19.849
gonna continue to spiral either until i saw you

01:05:19.849 --> 01:05:22.489
or until i exhausted myself yeah if you hadn't

01:05:22.489 --> 01:05:24.969
been able to come over then yeah yeah and i think

01:05:24.969 --> 01:05:27.230
that's that's where it must get really challenging

01:05:27.230 --> 01:05:29.849
yeah yeah and it can be quite draining as well

01:05:29.849 --> 01:05:33.019
on both sides of that yeah like if you're not

01:05:33.019 --> 01:05:35.780
in a in a cynical or a negative way but feeling

01:05:35.780 --> 01:05:37.900
unsupported because you're not getting the support

01:05:37.900 --> 01:05:40.460
that you in the way that you would need or want

01:05:40.460 --> 01:05:42.800
yeah from your partner but also feeling kind

01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:45.059
of powerless on the other side of that and so

01:05:45.059 --> 01:05:47.880
i really want to help fix this but i can't yeah

01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:50.039
that could be like a really practical thing i

01:05:50.039 --> 01:05:51.659
remember something happened with a shower and

01:05:51.659 --> 01:05:54.179
she sent me a picture of what was up and i was

01:05:54.179 --> 01:05:55.639
like it would take me five minutes to fix that

01:05:55.639 --> 01:05:58.519
yeah i could pop around fix it in five minutes

01:05:58.519 --> 01:06:02.440
and it'd be sorted but because I couldn't. And

01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:04.320
because she felt like she couldn't, it became

01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:06.300
this whole thing that you had to get someone

01:06:06.300 --> 01:06:09.380
to come and fix it for her. And even stuff like

01:06:09.380 --> 01:06:11.519
that is really difficult. It's literally a five

01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:13.219
-minute job. And I would do it for the price

01:06:13.219 --> 01:06:24.099
of a blowjob. I would do it for ice cream. So

01:06:24.099 --> 01:06:31.179
it's little things like that as well. it's not

01:06:31.179 --> 01:06:33.039
just kind of the heavy emotional things that

01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:35.019
people experience it's really practical things

01:06:35.019 --> 01:06:38.760
as well like yeah i think practical help with

01:06:38.760 --> 01:06:40.940
things is a big part of your love language as

01:06:40.940 --> 01:06:43.300
well because i've seen how much you're willing

01:06:43.300 --> 01:06:45.260
to do like not even just for partners for friends

01:06:45.260 --> 01:06:47.519
the number of times where someone we know has

01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:49.760
needed help moving house or needed help getting

01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:54.179
to a place or yeah um your your ex -partner who

01:06:54.179 --> 01:06:57.460
is not in america needed a spider murdered in

01:06:57.460 --> 01:06:59.340
our house recently yeah yeah and you just do

01:06:59.340 --> 01:07:01.039
stuff like that for people that you care about

01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:03.719
yeah no bother yeah and i can imagine you finding

01:07:03.719 --> 01:07:05.900
that really frustrating to not be able to do

01:07:05.900 --> 01:07:07.539
those sort of things because that's just what

01:07:07.539 --> 01:07:10.000
you do if someone you know is having a difficult

01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:13.199
ego i can i can drive a car i can kill a spider

01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:16.340
i can carry a heavy object down your garden whatever

01:07:16.340 --> 01:07:19.099
it is yeah that's who you are yeah that is true

01:07:19.099 --> 01:07:24.360
which yeah just it's it's frustrating Not being

01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:27.500
able to do that. Yeah. It can be difficult to

01:07:27.500 --> 01:07:30.960
navigate when you're not fully aware of what

01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:33.699
is going on. Yeah. Because, like, if you're having

01:07:33.699 --> 01:07:35.340
a bad mental health day or if you're having a

01:07:35.340 --> 01:07:37.219
bad day at work or whatever or something is going

01:07:37.219 --> 01:07:40.119
on in your life that is impacting you negatively,

01:07:40.320 --> 01:07:43.559
I know about it and I can see it happening so

01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:46.280
you can respond to it better. I think, like,

01:07:46.280 --> 01:07:48.719
particularly I struggle to tell people when I'm

01:07:48.719 --> 01:07:50.880
having a rough time sometimes. Yeah. And if I'm

01:07:50.880 --> 01:07:52.980
in your house, you can see it. Because I'll be

01:07:52.980 --> 01:07:54.900
sitting at my desk swearing at the computer or

01:07:54.900 --> 01:07:57.500
something. Yeah, yeah. Or having a cry or like

01:07:57.500 --> 01:08:01.500
wheezing. Yeah. Where if I'm not there in person,

01:08:01.539 --> 01:08:03.519
I might hold off on actually admitting there's

01:08:03.519 --> 01:08:05.239
a problem until it's a much bigger problem. Yeah.

01:08:05.320 --> 01:08:07.219
So kind of thinking through how you're going

01:08:07.219 --> 01:08:09.199
to provide that support, I think is something

01:08:09.199 --> 01:08:11.480
to think about in a long term, long distance

01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:15.679
relationship. Yeah, definitely. And I think the

01:08:15.679 --> 01:08:18.159
last thing that I would probably say people should

01:08:18.159 --> 01:08:20.260
think about is being on the same page about that.

01:08:21.350 --> 01:08:23.289
direction that you're going in i imagine for

01:08:23.289 --> 01:08:26.390
some people having a open -ended long -term long

01:08:26.390 --> 01:08:29.329
-distance relationship will probably work you

01:08:29.329 --> 01:08:31.789
know kind of have that balance of we see each

01:08:31.789 --> 01:08:34.710
other less frequently but we have all of these

01:08:34.710 --> 01:08:36.729
other things that kind of sustain us in the meantime

01:08:36.729 --> 01:08:38.890
probably does work for some people but you need

01:08:38.890 --> 01:08:42.189
to be really clear about that yeah and i know

01:08:42.189 --> 01:08:44.829
that actually you know if if your end game in

01:08:44.829 --> 01:08:46.670
life is to be married with children and that

01:08:46.670 --> 01:08:49.310
wasn't my end game that is just an example of

01:08:49.310 --> 01:08:52.159
an end game then if you're in a long distance

01:08:52.159 --> 01:08:54.079
relationship at some point somebody's got to

01:08:54.079 --> 01:08:56.319
move because last time i checked it is quite

01:08:56.319 --> 01:08:59.159
difficult to have kids if you're four and a half

01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:01.319
thousand miles apart kind of ferry them backwards

01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:03.880
and forwards yeah yeah or parent trap it and

01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:08.119
take one each yeah yeah yeah well i was thinking

01:09:08.119 --> 01:09:10.279
about the physical act of making children oh

01:09:10.279 --> 01:09:11.880
yeah you do at least have to visit to do that

01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:15.479
yeah yeah but like that's a really tricky thing

01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:18.600
to do yeah when you're thousands of miles apart

01:09:18.920 --> 01:09:21.819
So if that's your end game in life, then maybe

01:09:21.819 --> 01:09:23.619
a long distance relationship is not quite right

01:09:23.619 --> 01:09:25.560
for you or you need to really think about how

01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:27.619
you make it work if it is. Yeah, they're almost

01:09:27.619 --> 01:09:29.020
two different things, aren't they? There's the

01:09:29.020 --> 01:09:31.720
long distance relationship where it's until one

01:09:31.720 --> 01:09:34.239
of us moves for a few months or a couple of years

01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:36.779
and you're both actively working to make that

01:09:36.779 --> 01:09:39.020
happen versus the long distance relationship

01:09:39.020 --> 01:09:41.239
where at least for the foreseeable future, that

01:09:41.239 --> 01:09:43.300
is just what the relationship is. You kind of

01:09:43.300 --> 01:09:47.279
accept it as it is. I think the... the mindset

01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:49.399
and the preparation needed for those two types

01:09:49.399 --> 01:09:51.399
of relationships can be very very different from

01:09:51.399 --> 01:09:54.659
each other because i could do at a push i could

01:09:54.659 --> 01:09:57.760
do the long distance with a goal in mind to end

01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:00.460
the long distance and be in the same place i

01:10:00.460 --> 01:10:02.460
think like if i really had to i could do that

01:10:02.460 --> 01:10:05.060
for a while yeah but i couldn't do open -ended

01:10:05.060 --> 01:10:07.079
long distance that would just make me immediately

01:10:07.079 --> 01:10:12.439
like clinically insane yeah yeah yeah yeah i

01:10:12.439 --> 01:10:15.600
think that was probably the same Well, it was

01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:17.340
definitely the same for me. I think probably

01:10:17.340 --> 01:10:20.279
the same for my ex -partner as well. Yeah. Was,

01:10:20.439 --> 01:10:22.399
this is great. This is a really good relationship.

01:10:22.439 --> 01:10:24.560
I feel very supported and validated and I love

01:10:24.560 --> 01:10:26.239
you and we have a good time and all of that kind

01:10:26.239 --> 01:10:28.039
of stuff. But this cannot be the rest of my life.

01:10:28.300 --> 01:10:30.800
Yeah. I want to be in a relationship with someone

01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:37.180
who I can put my hands on and squish them. You

01:10:37.180 --> 01:10:41.989
know? Yeah. So that's a fairly depressing section

01:10:41.989 --> 01:10:43.689
on all of the things to think about that might

01:10:43.689 --> 01:10:46.369
make a long -distance relationship difficult.

01:10:46.789 --> 01:10:48.789
I think one of the things people probably in

01:10:48.789 --> 01:10:51.390
any relationship need to think about is how monogamous

01:10:51.390 --> 01:10:54.369
or otherwise it is. Because your relationship

01:10:54.369 --> 01:10:56.390
with your ex -partner, if I have got this right,

01:10:56.590 --> 01:10:59.149
was mostly monogamous. It was monogamous at the

01:10:59.149 --> 01:11:00.729
start, it was monogamous at the end, but there

01:11:00.729 --> 01:11:02.510
was a period in the middle where you experimented

01:11:02.510 --> 01:11:04.550
a little bit with non -monogamy as well. Do you

01:11:04.550 --> 01:11:06.989
want to tell us a little bit about how that...

01:11:07.159 --> 01:11:09.380
Comes into the mix, mix. I mean, I think for

01:11:09.380 --> 01:11:13.439
us, I think it was probably less consciously

01:11:13.439 --> 01:11:19.239
polyamorous and more a little bit kind of kinky.

01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:24.119
Yeah. A bit of a cuck vibe to it. Yeah. But it

01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:26.000
took some thinking through and it took some navigating

01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:28.420
and it wasn't always the easiest thing. I think

01:11:28.420 --> 01:11:31.460
that is probably tied more into the way that

01:11:31.460 --> 01:11:35.189
we are in relationships. than it is about what

01:11:35.189 --> 01:11:36.909
we were doing if that makes sense actually there

01:11:36.909 --> 01:11:39.270
was a little bit of it's a really fun and hot

01:11:39.270 --> 01:11:41.189
idea and it was a really fun and hot thing to

01:11:41.189 --> 01:11:44.569
do but actually there was a little bit of insecurity

01:11:44.569 --> 01:11:48.569
that kind of came with that as well and and that's

01:11:48.569 --> 01:11:51.069
really difficult to see and understand and navigate

01:11:51.069 --> 01:11:54.409
at a distance because it relies much more on

01:11:54.409 --> 01:11:58.670
very explicit communication which polyamory does

01:11:58.670 --> 01:12:03.020
non -monogamy does But doing that at a distance,

01:12:03.079 --> 01:12:06.340
I think, is probably a little bit kind of trickier.

01:12:06.460 --> 01:12:10.159
Yeah. I suppose so. It was a relatively short

01:12:10.159 --> 01:12:14.920
-lived experiment. I was part of that. You were

01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:17.020
part of that, yes. So, you know, that worked

01:12:17.020 --> 01:12:20.239
out pretty well in the long term. Probably clarify

01:12:20.239 --> 01:12:21.979
the timeline because it's getting really confusing.

01:12:22.039 --> 01:12:24.260
So you and your ex -partner were together roughly

01:12:24.260 --> 01:12:28.020
2019 to 2023. Yeah. I don't know exactly how

01:12:28.020 --> 01:12:30.359
long your open period of that was, but it definitely

01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:34.000
overlapped with autumn of 2021. Yeah. Which is

01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:37.779
when we met once. Had a hookup. Yeah. For the

01:12:37.779 --> 01:12:41.579
cuck vibes. Yeah. And then I... Met Hope and

01:12:41.579 --> 01:12:43.760
got into a two year long relationship with her

01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:46.039
that was largely monogamous. So didn't contact

01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:48.300
you again after that. Yeah. I believe sometimes.

01:12:48.560 --> 01:12:51.739
You properly cut me off. I have looked back over

01:12:51.739 --> 01:12:54.199
our texts, right? We both, for a period of time,

01:12:54.260 --> 01:12:56.640
both tried to arrange another hookup. Yeah, yeah.

01:12:56.699 --> 01:12:58.920
And our schedules just didn't line up. Yeah.

01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:02.029
And then the last text that you'd sent me. was

01:13:02.029 --> 01:13:03.989
after quite a gap after i'd asked you if you

01:13:03.989 --> 01:13:05.609
wanted to hook up again and i hadn't heard back

01:13:05.609 --> 01:13:08.510
from you in my defense and then you texted me

01:13:08.510 --> 01:13:10.550
asking to hook up and obviously i was monogamous

01:13:10.550 --> 01:13:12.909
by then yeah and then yes i did simply ghost

01:13:12.909 --> 01:13:17.869
yeah but but i i had communicated prior to that

01:13:17.869 --> 01:13:23.430
and you had been flaky fine fine um but yeah

01:13:23.430 --> 01:13:25.689
after i got into a monogamous ish relationship

01:13:25.689 --> 01:13:28.550
with hope i think not long after that you closed

01:13:28.550 --> 01:13:31.829
things up again with your ex um and then we both

01:13:31.829 --> 01:13:34.029
broke up with our partners around the same time

01:13:34.029 --> 01:13:35.710
without knowing the other person was doing that

01:13:35.710 --> 01:13:40.510
yeah yeah and we met in october 2023 for the

01:13:40.510 --> 01:13:42.850
second time so yeah our timing has ended up being

01:13:42.850 --> 01:13:44.789
weirdly quite good that i happened to meet you

01:13:44.789 --> 01:13:46.989
during the brief period that you were available

01:13:46.989 --> 01:13:49.479
for a hookup And I happened to meet you when

01:13:49.479 --> 01:13:52.140
you were very recently single because you don't

01:13:52.140 --> 01:13:53.840
seem to stay on the market very long. So I got

01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:56.880
straight in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's almost

01:13:56.880 --> 01:14:00.079
like it was predestined. Yes. Our lives were

01:14:00.079 --> 01:14:04.920
leading to this point, which is quite nice. It

01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:07.560
is. It's quite nice to think about. Yeah. Though

01:14:07.560 --> 01:14:09.119
it does make me feel slightly like I invaded

01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:13.670
your relationship. Just with a brief cameo from

01:14:13.670 --> 01:14:17.369
your fated mate halfway through. Hello. Well,

01:14:17.449 --> 01:14:18.989
I think that's what they call foreshadowing.

01:14:19.149 --> 01:14:26.130
Yeah. It's like if you watch, I don't know if

01:14:26.130 --> 01:14:27.710
it's like Game of Thrones, but you kind of watch

01:14:27.710 --> 01:14:29.850
those shows which kind of have an arc over several

01:14:29.850 --> 01:14:32.250
seasons. It's like you see someone in one episode

01:14:32.250 --> 01:14:34.229
and then they disappear for three years. Yeah.

01:14:34.930 --> 01:14:38.010
And then they come back. It's like Lost, right?

01:14:38.069 --> 01:14:41.859
You remember the TV show? I do, because I tried,

01:14:41.899 --> 01:14:43.739
I think, four times to get into it and I couldn't

01:14:43.739 --> 01:14:45.739
make it past season one. But go on. What they

01:14:45.739 --> 01:14:48.920
would do every day, because they had a... In

01:14:48.920 --> 01:14:55.000
keeping with all good American TV shows, it would

01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:57.979
usually start with a previously on Lost. And

01:14:57.979 --> 01:15:00.010
it would tell you... what happened in like the

01:15:00.010 --> 01:15:02.310
last episode and maybe the episode before yeah

01:15:02.310 --> 01:15:04.909
but every now and again they would say previously

01:15:04.909 --> 01:15:07.350
on lost and then it would be a clip from something

01:15:07.350 --> 01:15:11.010
three years ago oh yeah now now it's important

01:15:11.010 --> 01:15:13.710
all of a sudden three years like we've forgotten

01:15:13.710 --> 01:15:16.229
that it even happened now it's crucially important

01:15:16.229 --> 01:15:18.489
to the plot yeah and you're a little bit like

01:15:18.489 --> 01:15:29.140
that thank you previously on s I think the other

01:15:29.140 --> 01:15:31.720
thing I wanted to, what has occurred to me about

01:15:31.720 --> 01:15:34.520
kind of long distance and non -monogamy or monogamy

01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:37.939
or polyamory is I think a version of that that

01:15:37.939 --> 01:15:40.380
I would really struggle with, even if polyamory

01:15:40.380 --> 01:15:42.779
was something that I was fully comfortable with,

01:15:42.859 --> 01:15:45.100
which to be fair, I'm not for me personally.

01:15:45.319 --> 01:15:48.600
Yeah. But there are people that I've met who

01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:54.380
have in -person romantic connections, romantic

01:15:54.380 --> 01:15:58.000
relationships with. and they have a long distance

01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:01.779
romantic relationship with someone and i i would

01:16:01.779 --> 01:16:04.739
really struggle being any one of those people

01:16:04.739 --> 01:16:07.939
in that scenario yeah i think i think i would

01:16:07.939 --> 01:16:10.100
probably struggle most being the person who is

01:16:10.100 --> 01:16:14.579
at a distance from me but i just kind of i'm

01:16:14.579 --> 01:16:17.399
in awe a little bit of people who are able to

01:16:17.399 --> 01:16:19.970
manage that kind of dynamic I think it must take

01:16:19.970 --> 01:16:22.750
really good boundaries and communication for

01:16:22.750 --> 01:16:25.069
it to work well. Yeah. Because the thing that

01:16:25.069 --> 01:16:26.529
I've always found difficult when I've been in

01:16:26.529 --> 01:16:28.590
poly relationships is that feeling of missing

01:16:28.590 --> 01:16:31.270
one partner when you're with another. Yeah. That

01:16:31.270 --> 01:16:33.569
feeling that whatever you're doing, it's the

01:16:33.569 --> 01:16:35.590
wrong thing. kind of thing like you don't want

01:16:35.590 --> 01:16:37.270
to be texting someone else when you're on a date

01:16:37.270 --> 01:16:39.890
but also you don't want to be blanking your partner

01:16:39.890 --> 01:16:42.310
for hours and it's yeah that tension is hard

01:16:42.310 --> 01:16:44.590
enough to navigate when they're people that you

01:16:44.590 --> 01:16:47.109
see in person and spend roughly the same amounts

01:16:47.109 --> 01:16:49.609
of time with yeah if one of those people is also

01:16:49.609 --> 01:16:51.909
4 000 miles away i think that would be a really

01:16:51.909 --> 01:16:54.250
hard balance to get right yeah like how do you

01:16:54.250 --> 01:16:56.489
balance the prioritization of that how do you

01:16:56.489 --> 01:16:59.810
balance the time of that especially and i hadn't

01:16:59.810 --> 01:17:03.850
even really necessarily thought about like international

01:17:03.850 --> 01:17:06.689
time zone based long distance relationships but

01:17:06.689 --> 01:17:08.829
that must be a there must be people who do that

01:17:08.829 --> 01:17:11.710
as well like when when your time with your long

01:17:11.710 --> 01:17:14.989
distance partner is partly dictated by time zones

01:17:14.989 --> 01:17:17.989
how do you then navigate that with the person

01:17:17.989 --> 01:17:21.170
that you are physically with the the idea of

01:17:21.170 --> 01:17:23.569
it just blows my mind and like i said i am in

01:17:23.569 --> 01:17:26.630
awe i am generally in awe of people who can successfully

01:17:26.630 --> 01:17:30.359
manage multiple romantic relationships Because

01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:32.600
I just don't think I could do it. I don't want

01:17:32.600 --> 01:17:35.640
to do it. But I don't think I could do it. I

01:17:35.640 --> 01:17:37.699
don't think I could cope with that. But then

01:17:37.699 --> 01:17:41.960
to add in the distance to it, it's just mind

01:17:41.960 --> 01:17:45.020
-blowing to me. Yeah, I think the more layers

01:17:45.020 --> 01:17:46.899
you add that complicate it, the harder it gets.

01:17:46.960 --> 01:17:49.479
I have had a couple of poly relationships and

01:17:49.479 --> 01:17:52.640
it's not my relationship style. It's something

01:17:52.640 --> 01:17:54.899
that... was interesting for me to explore and

01:17:54.899 --> 01:17:57.300
has made me realize over time like that i am

01:17:57.300 --> 01:18:00.380
romantically i'm monogamous yeah that's a better

01:18:00.380 --> 01:18:02.720
fit for me it's as i've touched on before on

01:18:02.720 --> 01:18:05.220
when we had the episode on polyamory i think

01:18:05.220 --> 01:18:07.579
i am capable of being in love with more than

01:18:07.579 --> 01:18:10.439
one person at a time but i am not capable of

01:18:10.439 --> 01:18:12.899
loving more than one person at a time the way

01:18:12.899 --> 01:18:15.279
that they deserve to be loved yeah for me to

01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:17.279
really give that amount of my time and attention

01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:19.619
and energy to someone i can only really maintain

01:18:19.619 --> 01:18:22.909
that with one person The feeling of the emotion

01:18:22.909 --> 01:18:26.210
of love is relatively easy. And we all love loads

01:18:26.210 --> 01:18:27.649
of people. We just love them in different ways.

01:18:27.789 --> 01:18:30.930
So being able to feel a romantic connection and

01:18:30.930 --> 01:18:32.789
romantic love for more than one person. Yeah,

01:18:32.850 --> 01:18:36.069
absolutely makes sense to me. Being able to navigate

01:18:36.069 --> 01:18:38.710
a relationship with more than one person and

01:18:38.710 --> 01:18:42.649
really do all of it justice and stay sane. Yeah.

01:18:42.689 --> 01:18:46.350
Not for me. Can't achieve that. But well done

01:18:46.350 --> 01:18:52.489
to people who can. Yes. Bravo. So, as a kink

01:18:52.489 --> 01:18:56.750
podcast. Oh shit, yeah. We're not a relationship

01:18:56.750 --> 01:18:59.369
podcast. We're a kink podcast. Doesn't the intro

01:18:59.369 --> 01:19:01.569
say something like sex, relationships, kink and

01:19:01.569 --> 01:19:04.590
more or something like that? Does it? Maybe it's

01:19:04.590 --> 01:19:06.930
the description on Spotify. I feel like I've

01:19:06.930 --> 01:19:08.829
seen that phrase somewhere. Probably. I know

01:19:08.829 --> 01:19:10.789
my own podcast really well, guys. Yeah, yeah.

01:19:12.189 --> 01:19:14.710
Wait, what? We're putting this on Spotify? So

01:19:14.710 --> 01:19:17.149
obviously your long distance relationship was

01:19:17.149 --> 01:19:19.609
a dominant and submissive relationship. Yes.

01:19:19.689 --> 01:19:22.130
Power exchange. It was. How were those elements

01:19:22.130 --> 01:19:26.789
long distance mix? How did you find that? I think

01:19:26.789 --> 01:19:29.069
overall that was probably the most straightforward

01:19:29.069 --> 01:19:32.229
part because it was quite structured, more consciously

01:19:32.229 --> 01:19:35.010
thought through in a weird kind of way. Yeah,

01:19:35.109 --> 01:19:37.130
that 100 % makes sense and is what I was thinking

01:19:37.130 --> 01:19:39.989
is that sounds like the easy bit. Because a structure

01:19:39.989 --> 01:19:43.970
of a DS relationship is the thing that kind of

01:19:43.970 --> 01:19:47.029
creates the boundaries and the correct order

01:19:47.029 --> 01:19:48.350
of things and the correct way of doing things

01:19:48.350 --> 01:19:51.029
for you. So much of the stuff that is harder

01:19:51.029 --> 01:19:53.630
to do over a distance, it kind of does some of

01:19:53.630 --> 01:19:56.270
the legwork for you, I would imagine. Yeah, I

01:19:56.270 --> 01:19:58.390
think so. Even if you think about the way that

01:19:58.390 --> 01:20:01.270
our dynamic is structured, there is a way of

01:20:01.270 --> 01:20:03.329
doing that when we're not physically together.

01:20:03.829 --> 01:20:06.770
So with my ex -partner, as you would expect,

01:20:06.850 --> 01:20:09.020
spent a... good bit of time kind of talking about

01:20:09.020 --> 01:20:11.800
what we wanted, what we needed, what kind of

01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:15.079
dynamic we wanted. So this is the partner that

01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:18.819
I've talked about in the past, who has ADHD,

01:20:19.180 --> 01:20:30.739
is peer -reviewed autistic, and has some of those

01:20:30.739 --> 01:20:34.300
kind of executive function challenges. so what

01:20:34.300 --> 01:20:36.659
was really important when we were thinking about

01:20:36.659 --> 01:20:38.560
kind of rules and protocols was making sure that

01:20:38.560 --> 01:20:40.659
we were doing the best to support that yeah so

01:20:40.659 --> 01:20:44.659
we a lot of our rules were about kind of um function

01:20:44.659 --> 01:20:47.560
of daily life a lot of our rules were about what

01:20:47.560 --> 01:20:49.539
other parts of our rules were there was an element

01:20:49.539 --> 01:20:51.159
of appearance control so i would pick her out

01:20:51.159 --> 01:20:55.579
pick her day um and and the way that we manage

01:20:55.579 --> 01:20:58.560
that in that relationship whereas in our relationship

01:20:59.199 --> 01:21:00.819
You wake up in the morning and you say, what

01:21:00.819 --> 01:21:02.960
do you want me to wear today? And I go, this.

01:21:05.699 --> 01:21:08.739
The way that that worked with my ex -partner

01:21:08.739 --> 01:21:12.100
was that she would send me pictures. Yeah. And

01:21:12.100 --> 01:21:14.899
I would pick from two or three options. So it's

01:21:14.899 --> 01:21:17.300
kind of modifying the rules that you might see

01:21:17.300 --> 01:21:20.859
in an up -close -in -person dynamic and just

01:21:20.859 --> 01:21:22.560
adopting them for the fact that you're not physically

01:21:22.560 --> 01:21:26.250
together. Yeah. I think the trickiest part of

01:21:26.250 --> 01:21:29.069
that is thinking through how they're going to

01:21:29.069 --> 01:21:33.289
be enforced and how discipline works in terms

01:21:33.289 --> 01:21:39.729
of kind of rules and protocols. So much of it

01:21:39.729 --> 01:21:42.289
was essentially based on trust in the honour

01:21:42.289 --> 01:21:45.189
system. because i'm not i would say that's the

01:21:45.189 --> 01:21:47.789
same in person though like you can't even with

01:21:47.789 --> 01:21:49.470
the cameras all around the house and even with

01:21:49.470 --> 01:21:51.069
us both working from home and living together

01:21:51.069 --> 01:21:53.430
you can't actually supervise me at every minute

01:21:53.430 --> 01:21:55.989
of every day if i wanted to break a rule i know

01:21:55.989 --> 01:21:57.609
where the blind spots of the cameras are and

01:21:57.609 --> 01:21:59.449
i know that you're not watching them 24 7 like

01:21:59.449 --> 01:22:03.189
i do rely on on a certain amount of honesty in

01:22:03.189 --> 01:22:06.109
a dynamic i think yeah yeah that yeah that's

01:22:06.109 --> 01:22:10.590
absolutely true um but there is also a lot that

01:22:10.590 --> 01:22:15.539
i can observe yeah um so much like we do in our

01:22:15.539 --> 01:22:18.420
dynamic we have rules about kind of you are responsible

01:22:18.420 --> 01:22:22.100
for cleaning the house yeah my ex -partner had

01:22:22.100 --> 01:22:25.060
had not quite the same rules but similar rules

01:22:25.060 --> 01:22:28.199
about maintaining her space yeah and i had a

01:22:28.199 --> 01:22:30.899
thing i still have a thing that if you're going

01:22:30.899 --> 01:22:34.060
to keep one space in your house tidy it has to

01:22:34.060 --> 01:22:36.840
be your bedroom yeah Because that is your sanctuary

01:22:36.840 --> 01:22:38.779
from the wild. It's where you can crawl under

01:22:38.779 --> 01:22:40.260
the covers and pretend the rest of the world

01:22:40.260 --> 01:22:43.159
doesn't happen. So that should be a calm, doesn't

01:22:43.159 --> 01:22:45.859
have to be perfectly clean and tidy, but it should

01:22:45.859 --> 01:22:49.420
be a calm space. So the rule was she had to keep

01:22:49.420 --> 01:22:52.779
that space, her bedroom, relatively clean. She

01:22:52.779 --> 01:22:54.600
couldn't allow laundry to pile up on the floor.

01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:57.319
She couldn't allow rubbish to pile up. What I

01:22:57.319 --> 01:23:04.100
discovered was that she managed to create a blind

01:23:04.100 --> 01:23:07.909
spot. So the way that we enforced the rule that

01:23:07.909 --> 01:23:09.710
the bedroom needed to be tidy is that she would

01:23:09.710 --> 01:23:12.470
send me pictures on a regular enough basis that

01:23:12.470 --> 01:23:16.149
I could see that it was tidy. She found a way

01:23:16.149 --> 01:23:18.609
because of the way that her bedroom and her apartment

01:23:18.609 --> 01:23:21.770
was laid out is that she could send me a picture

01:23:21.770 --> 01:23:25.529
of what appeared to be the full bedroom, but

01:23:25.529 --> 01:23:29.329
wasn't. And it was a relatively small space within

01:23:29.329 --> 01:23:31.789
the bedroom that was just a complete fucking

01:23:31.789 --> 01:23:37.989
disaster. And she got quite good at making sure

01:23:37.989 --> 01:23:39.770
that kind of, you know, where the mirrors in

01:23:39.770 --> 01:23:41.369
the room were positioned and where the windows

01:23:41.369 --> 01:23:43.670
were when she was taking pictures. So that's

01:23:43.670 --> 01:23:45.470
what I mean when I say it kind of relies on the

01:23:45.470 --> 01:23:49.069
honor system. She wasn't doing that in bad faith.

01:23:49.390 --> 01:23:51.229
I want to be really, really clear. She wasn't

01:23:51.229 --> 01:23:53.109
doing that in bad faith. She wasn't doing it

01:23:53.109 --> 01:23:55.869
as a way of bratting, even though she is a massive

01:23:55.869 --> 01:24:01.069
brat. She was doing it because she was struggling

01:24:01.069 --> 01:24:04.560
with maintaining that. And rather than just saying

01:24:04.560 --> 01:24:07.579
that, she was like, no, I am going to pretend

01:24:07.579 --> 01:24:09.399
that I am being a good girl and doing what I

01:24:09.399 --> 01:24:14.079
need to do. And that came out and we dealt with

01:24:14.079 --> 01:24:18.699
it. And it wasn't a big thing. So I think that's

01:24:18.699 --> 01:24:20.260
what I mean when it kind of relies on trust and

01:24:20.260 --> 01:24:22.420
the honor system. And that's a two -way thing.

01:24:22.760 --> 01:24:25.539
There are a lot of things in our dynamic between

01:24:25.539 --> 01:24:28.880
you and me that I can observe being done. yeah

01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:31.220
a lot more than than if you're a lot more yeah

01:24:31.220 --> 01:24:33.739
than than if you're at a distance like thinking

01:24:33.739 --> 01:24:36.680
through how you set rules that are achievable

01:24:36.680 --> 01:24:41.439
and demonstrable and thinking about how you enforce

01:24:41.439 --> 01:24:44.220
discipline in in that relationship and we we

01:24:44.220 --> 01:24:46.920
approach discipline in that dynamic very differently

01:24:46.920 --> 01:24:49.460
to the way that we do it in ours yeah because

01:24:49.460 --> 01:24:52.399
she doesn't really feel that because she doesn't

01:24:52.399 --> 01:24:54.039
really feel that punishment is helpful for her

01:24:54.039 --> 01:24:57.869
does she mix no So it was more about reward for

01:24:57.869 --> 01:25:00.010
doing the things and the absence of reward for

01:25:00.010 --> 01:25:03.369
not doing them rather than punishment in there.

01:25:03.449 --> 01:25:05.609
And that worked really well. Yeah. And that's

01:25:05.609 --> 01:25:07.350
a really good approach. I think a lot of people

01:25:07.350 --> 01:25:11.130
think of discipline as the D and BDSM discipline

01:25:11.130 --> 01:25:14.250
part as being all about punishment. And actually,

01:25:14.270 --> 01:25:16.029
there's a lot of people who don't like that or

01:25:16.029 --> 01:25:17.770
don't respond well to it or don't feel they learn

01:25:17.770 --> 01:25:21.430
anything from it or it doesn't feel effective

01:25:21.430 --> 01:25:24.329
in some way. And reward can be a really good

01:25:24.329 --> 01:25:27.170
alternative form of discipline. Not even alternative,

01:25:27.210 --> 01:25:30.750
like positive reinforcement is a common animal

01:25:30.750 --> 01:25:32.510
training technique. It's commonly recommended

01:25:32.510 --> 01:25:35.029
in parenting. Positive reinforcement is a legitimate

01:25:35.029 --> 01:25:39.670
way of enforcing discipline. It's just I need

01:25:39.670 --> 01:25:41.550
punishment. I need to be under constant threat.

01:25:41.829 --> 01:25:46.449
And that's just as valid. People work in different

01:25:46.449 --> 01:25:52.539
ways. But I think as well... Again, living in

01:25:52.539 --> 01:25:54.399
this modern world that we do, I think there's

01:25:54.399 --> 01:25:56.079
something about the way that you use technology,

01:25:56.199 --> 01:25:59.399
both to feel the pull of the dynamic, I suppose.

01:25:59.479 --> 01:26:02.539
So it was that relationship which introduced

01:26:02.539 --> 01:26:08.119
me to Life360 as a way of tracking someone's

01:26:08.119 --> 01:26:11.980
location. Big fan of that. Big fan of that. So

01:26:11.980 --> 01:26:14.420
the way that rules and tasks would work is that

01:26:14.420 --> 01:26:16.659
I would create a shared note with all of the

01:26:16.659 --> 01:26:18.300
things that I needed her to do in a given day.

01:26:18.359 --> 01:26:20.380
And that was a kind of a collaborative thing

01:26:20.380 --> 01:26:21.520
as well. She would let me know if there were

01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:23.199
things that she wanted to be on there. So there

01:26:23.199 --> 01:26:25.720
was that kind of external discipline of she has

01:26:25.720 --> 01:26:28.020
to go to the pharmacy. Left to her own devices,

01:26:28.079 --> 01:26:30.279
she might not do that. If I say she has to do

01:26:30.279 --> 01:26:34.439
it, she'll do it. Yeah. I also love to use...

01:26:35.100 --> 01:26:37.880
ds relationship as a hack for my executive function

01:26:37.880 --> 01:26:39.960
yeah yeah yeah so i would spend a little bit

01:26:39.960 --> 01:26:42.460
of time every every every day while she was asleep

01:26:42.460 --> 01:26:46.079
creating a shared note with some expectations

01:26:46.079 --> 01:26:49.199
for the day um and then she would have that and

01:26:49.199 --> 01:26:50.579
it was a way of kind of checking off whether

01:26:50.579 --> 01:26:53.760
she's done a good job on any given day um but

01:26:53.760 --> 01:26:55.579
it's also a really nice way of staying connected

01:26:55.579 --> 01:26:58.220
to the dynamic as well yeah it's like we don't

01:26:58.220 --> 01:27:02.279
we don't do that we don't I don't create a list

01:27:02.279 --> 01:27:04.420
of tasks for you to do. You have a list of tasks

01:27:04.420 --> 01:27:06.979
that you set and create for yourself. But what

01:27:06.979 --> 01:27:09.399
we've got is a set of standing rules and a contract,

01:27:09.560 --> 01:27:14.100
which we then work to on a daily basis. Yeah.

01:27:15.100 --> 01:27:18.699
But that kind of shared note and collaborating

01:27:18.699 --> 01:27:22.079
on the tasks for the day helped to stay more

01:27:22.079 --> 01:27:24.300
connected to the dynamic because it was a conscious

01:27:24.300 --> 01:27:27.619
act every single day. So it worked really well.

01:27:28.279 --> 01:27:30.579
Yeah, having that as like a shared thing that

01:27:30.579 --> 01:27:33.720
you create it and she takes off as well. Yeah.

01:27:33.800 --> 01:27:36.039
That in itself is an element of communication.

01:27:36.220 --> 01:27:38.260
It's another communication line that you've got

01:27:38.260 --> 01:27:40.220
open where you can both see the progress in real

01:27:40.220 --> 01:27:43.340
time. Yeah. I think that's really smart. Yeah.

01:27:43.359 --> 01:27:44.640
Because another way people sometimes do that

01:27:44.640 --> 01:27:46.619
is there's apps like the Obedience app that are

01:27:46.619 --> 01:27:49.840
quite popular. Yeah. I know you told me you've

01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:51.600
tried that and you weren't a big fan of it where

01:27:51.600 --> 01:27:53.359
you mixed. Just it didn't quite work for your

01:27:53.359 --> 01:27:56.119
dynamic with her. No, we had a look at it and

01:27:56.119 --> 01:27:58.619
just didn't seem to get on with it. I don't think

01:27:58.619 --> 01:28:00.340
there's anything fundamentally wrong with it.

01:28:01.180 --> 01:28:04.680
And maybe we were just kind of stuck in our ways

01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:07.739
at that point. Because the list that I would

01:28:07.739 --> 01:28:10.260
do every day was literally, it was check boxes.

01:28:10.460 --> 01:28:12.920
So I would write the list, put the tick boxes

01:28:12.920 --> 01:28:14.779
on it. And then as she went through, she would

01:28:14.779 --> 01:28:16.680
tick them off so that we could both see at any

01:28:16.680 --> 01:28:21.720
point in the day how she was getting on. And

01:28:21.720 --> 01:28:24.359
she really liked it. ticking things off because

01:28:24.359 --> 01:28:28.039
it felt like an achievement yeah so um and i

01:28:28.039 --> 01:28:30.500
think that was maybe not quite as as prominent

01:28:30.500 --> 01:28:33.399
in the obedience app or didn't feel like it was

01:28:33.399 --> 01:28:35.239
quite as prominent as it was in the obedience

01:28:35.239 --> 01:28:38.079
app um and given that we were so used to using

01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:43.819
notes in google keep it just seemed a bit over

01:28:43.819 --> 01:28:45.720
engineered yeah well i think that's definitely

01:28:45.720 --> 01:28:48.060
one that's From what I've heard about it, I've

01:28:48.060 --> 01:28:50.020
never used it at all because I've never been

01:28:50.020 --> 01:28:51.920
anything even close to long distance when doing

01:28:51.920 --> 01:28:55.039
power exchange. But you don't have to be long

01:28:55.039 --> 01:28:56.640
distance to use it. To be fair, I've met people

01:28:56.640 --> 01:28:59.140
who've used it for in -person relationships just

01:28:59.140 --> 01:29:01.260
as a way of helping them both kind of keep on

01:29:01.260 --> 01:29:03.239
track with what they need to be giving to the

01:29:03.239 --> 01:29:05.560
dynamic. Some people absolutely love it. So I

01:29:05.560 --> 01:29:07.680
think if you are in or considering a long distance

01:29:07.680 --> 01:29:09.479
power exchange relationship, it's something that's

01:29:09.479 --> 01:29:12.100
worth checking out, having a try, see if it works

01:29:12.100 --> 01:29:13.760
for you, see if there's elements of it you like

01:29:13.760 --> 01:29:15.720
that you could use in other ways. If not, yeah.

01:29:16.250 --> 01:29:21.489
worth it and i think that dynamic was not to

01:29:21.489 --> 01:29:24.409
the extent that we are now but there was a lot

01:29:24.409 --> 01:29:26.890
of transfer of authority and transfer of decision

01:29:26.890 --> 01:29:29.670
making to me which was sometimes a little bit

01:29:29.670 --> 01:29:31.909
tricky because if a decision was needed after

01:29:31.909 --> 01:29:33.970
i had gone to bed then i wouldn't wake up to

01:29:33.970 --> 01:29:35.750
deal with it so there always needs to be a little

01:29:35.750 --> 01:29:38.069
bit of flexibility and actually because of the

01:29:38.069 --> 01:29:40.170
way that we communicated in that stream of consciousness

01:29:40.170 --> 01:29:42.710
kind of way that we we talk to each other quite

01:29:42.710 --> 01:29:45.840
often what would happen is a situation would

01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:49.819
present itself. And I could see her working through

01:29:49.819 --> 01:29:52.380
it and almost going, well, what do I think you

01:29:52.380 --> 01:29:55.079
would say? Yeah. What do I think you would think

01:29:55.079 --> 01:29:59.159
is the right thing to do in this situation? Which,

01:29:59.279 --> 01:30:02.100
again, was quite a helpful thing because regardless

01:30:02.100 --> 01:30:04.699
of what I would have actually done, I could see

01:30:04.699 --> 01:30:07.079
the logic of it. Yeah. And I wasn't going to

01:30:07.079 --> 01:30:08.560
go, well, that was the wrong thing, so now you

01:30:08.560 --> 01:30:12.329
are in trouble. It became a conversation of,

01:30:12.369 --> 01:30:14.649
OK, well, if it was me, if I was around, this

01:30:14.649 --> 01:30:17.489
is what would have happened. That's OK. I am

01:30:17.489 --> 01:30:20.029
not mad about it sort of thing. But it helped

01:30:20.029 --> 01:30:22.430
to kind of develop those things as well. Yeah.

01:30:22.630 --> 01:30:25.310
Like it was it most often came up if it was getting

01:30:25.310 --> 01:30:27.189
to the end of her evening and she hadn't done

01:30:27.189 --> 01:30:29.489
all of the kind of the practical tasks that she

01:30:29.489 --> 01:30:32.369
needed to do. It was it was a case of I have

01:30:32.369 --> 01:30:35.630
the time and the spoons to do one of these two

01:30:35.630 --> 01:30:38.539
things. what do i think you would prioritize

01:30:38.539 --> 01:30:40.819
which we do yeah like in our dynamic if you've

01:30:40.819 --> 01:30:42.800
got a load of tasks and you are feeling overwhelmed

01:30:42.800 --> 01:30:45.119
or whatever then then we will sometimes talk

01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:46.739
through and go actually no this is the priority

01:30:46.739 --> 01:30:49.579
so it's a similar sort of thing having a ds dynamic

01:30:49.579 --> 01:30:51.579
means you have to think through a lot of that

01:30:51.579 --> 01:30:54.659
but i don't think actually having a ds dynamic

01:30:54.659 --> 01:30:58.300
is is any more difficult necessarily done at

01:30:58.300 --> 01:31:00.020
a distance you just have to think about it in

01:31:00.020 --> 01:31:02.140
a different way yeah and be a little bit more

01:31:02.140 --> 01:31:04.739
creative sometimes because i was thinking while

01:31:04.739 --> 01:31:07.590
we've been talking There's not a lot of our dynamic

01:31:07.590 --> 01:31:10.010
that would have to change if we suddenly went

01:31:10.010 --> 01:31:12.229
long distance. No. I am not suggesting we do

01:31:12.229 --> 01:31:15.430
that. I do not want to do that. No. But I imagine

01:31:15.430 --> 01:31:18.090
if we were suddenly to have to have a long distance

01:31:18.090 --> 01:31:19.949
relationship, there might be things we would

01:31:19.949 --> 01:31:21.710
add to it and some new stuff we would come up

01:31:21.710 --> 01:31:23.890
with to keep that interesting and exciting. But

01:31:23.890 --> 01:31:25.390
I don't think there's anything that would actually

01:31:25.390 --> 01:31:27.909
have to come out. No. Because all of it would

01:31:27.909 --> 01:31:30.310
work just as well. You do really rely on that

01:31:30.310 --> 01:31:32.329
trust and honesty for me to tell you if I'm not

01:31:32.329 --> 01:31:34.470
doing the things I'm meant to be doing. But that's

01:31:34.470 --> 01:31:36.279
something I'm... I'm generally pretty good with

01:31:36.279 --> 01:31:39.380
anyway. My conscience kicks the shit out of me

01:31:39.380 --> 01:31:41.119
if I try to get away with anything I'm not meant

01:31:41.119 --> 01:31:45.020
to. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's probably,

01:31:45.199 --> 01:31:47.100
you know, you do see quite a lot of people on

01:31:47.100 --> 01:31:49.439
FetLife who are in long distance DS dynamics

01:31:49.439 --> 01:31:52.380
and you know nothing about the amount of time

01:31:52.380 --> 01:31:55.340
that they actually spend together, if any. But

01:31:55.340 --> 01:31:57.920
fundamentally, the structure that you create

01:31:57.920 --> 01:32:00.020
within a DS dynamic is going to be different.

01:32:00.619 --> 01:32:03.359
From person to person, from in -person relationship

01:32:03.359 --> 01:32:06.399
to in -person relationship, doing it at a distance

01:32:06.399 --> 01:32:09.619
is just a variation for me. I guess this is less

01:32:09.619 --> 01:32:11.619
about power exchange and more about slightly

01:32:11.619 --> 01:32:15.100
more general kink. I think the bit that we found

01:32:15.100 --> 01:32:18.279
the hardest and had to work the hardest at was

01:32:18.279 --> 01:32:27.739
bratting and discipline. Right. I think they're

01:32:27.739 --> 01:32:31.199
a very different thing. But I think we had similar

01:32:31.199 --> 01:32:34.479
challenges with them. So my ex -partner was a

01:32:34.479 --> 01:32:39.159
brat and a gleeful one at that. I can really

01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:41.220
see that in how you write rules to this day.

01:32:41.319 --> 01:32:48.100
You're preparing for brats. Yeah. And I think

01:32:48.100 --> 01:32:50.779
navigating that in person, as long as it's something

01:32:50.779 --> 01:32:52.439
that you have consented to and as long as you

01:32:52.439 --> 01:32:54.979
understand what is going on, actually navigating

01:32:54.979 --> 01:32:57.539
that in person, for me, it feels relatively straightforward.

01:32:58.140 --> 01:33:00.319
because you can kind of see on someone's face

01:33:00.319 --> 01:33:02.239
when they're being a dick for the fun of it.

01:33:02.319 --> 01:33:09.079
Yeah. But when someone is acting out on a text

01:33:09.079 --> 01:33:11.180
message, it is sometimes difficult to work out

01:33:11.180 --> 01:33:12.960
whether they are acting out for the fun of it

01:33:12.960 --> 01:33:14.819
or whether they are acting out because something

01:33:14.819 --> 01:33:19.260
is up. Yeah. And the context clues that you get

01:33:19.260 --> 01:33:21.539
from someone in front of you doing it is different.

01:33:22.279 --> 01:33:24.279
Or they're just not there. So kind of there's

01:33:24.279 --> 01:33:26.520
that kind of potential for misunderstanding.

01:33:27.680 --> 01:33:32.720
And then similarly with discipline, I would sometimes

01:33:32.720 --> 01:33:36.060
kind of express disappointment that a thing hadn't

01:33:36.060 --> 01:33:38.840
been done. She'd broken a rule or something of

01:33:38.840 --> 01:33:41.720
that nature. And because of the way that her

01:33:41.720 --> 01:33:44.720
mind works, that immediately went into, you hate

01:33:44.720 --> 01:33:46.939
me. You're mad at me and you want me to die.

01:33:48.880 --> 01:33:53.180
Yeah, that's relatable. You know, and that's

01:33:53.180 --> 01:33:56.079
a caricature of it. But as is common with a lot

01:33:56.079 --> 01:34:02.630
of... People who are neurodivergent had some

01:34:02.630 --> 01:34:04.789
issues around rejection sensitivity. So it was

01:34:04.789 --> 01:34:07.470
pretty sensitive to criticism, was pretty sensitive

01:34:07.470 --> 01:34:10.409
to the concept of being a disappointment or disappointing

01:34:10.409 --> 01:34:13.289
or upsetting others. Getting that point across

01:34:13.289 --> 01:34:15.369
when a lot of your, so much of your communication

01:34:15.369 --> 01:34:18.489
is by text can be really, really difficult. And

01:34:18.489 --> 01:34:20.409
one way to resolve that is to talk to them and

01:34:20.409 --> 01:34:21.850
actually pick up the phone and have a conversation.

01:34:21.850 --> 01:34:23.449
And actually quite a lot of the time, that's

01:34:23.449 --> 01:34:27.329
what we did. Yeah. But yeah, unless you're really,

01:34:27.409 --> 01:34:29.619
really clear. And really, really careful with

01:34:29.619 --> 01:34:33.779
how you express discipline. It can be. It can

01:34:33.779 --> 01:34:35.779
be quite challenging. And I go back to what I

01:34:35.779 --> 01:34:37.739
said earlier on. One of the ways that we dealt

01:34:37.739 --> 01:34:39.399
with that was by having a phone call. We talked

01:34:39.399 --> 01:34:41.920
about it when we needed to. But also we were

01:34:41.920 --> 01:34:44.180
talking parentheses. So if I wasn't sure if she

01:34:44.180 --> 01:34:46.279
was being bratty or if she was actually upset,

01:34:46.500 --> 01:34:50.279
I would ask that. Yeah. If she wasn't sure whether

01:34:50.279 --> 01:34:53.319
I was being dominant or whether I was mad at

01:34:53.319 --> 01:35:01.640
her, she would ask that. You know? To this day,

01:35:01.659 --> 01:35:03.920
I'm not fully sure why we did it in parentheses,

01:35:04.060 --> 01:35:06.159
but it seemed to work really, really well. It

01:35:06.159 --> 01:35:08.420
didn't interrupt the flow of the conversation.

01:35:08.819 --> 01:35:10.760
That makes total sense to me. I don't know if

01:35:10.760 --> 01:35:12.359
it's just because I spent a lot of my life chronically

01:35:12.359 --> 01:35:15.439
online, but that feels like a good way to do

01:35:15.439 --> 01:35:18.199
it. You're acknowledging this is an aside. It's

01:35:18.199 --> 01:35:19.979
not part of the conversation. We're not changing

01:35:19.979 --> 01:35:22.140
the topic to talk about this thing. We're just

01:35:22.140 --> 01:35:25.100
checking. Yeah, so we did a lot of that and a

01:35:25.100 --> 01:35:27.140
lot of checking in. You know, especially if I

01:35:27.140 --> 01:35:28.699
wasn't sure if she was bratting or whether she

01:35:28.699 --> 01:35:30.460
was upset. It was like, bracket, are we flirting?

01:35:31.520 --> 01:35:36.800
You know, that sort of question. Yeah. Because

01:35:36.800 --> 01:35:41.300
if you get that wrong, it can end up being a

01:35:41.300 --> 01:35:43.619
bit messy. Yeah. I'm like, oh yeah, having a

01:35:43.619 --> 01:35:45.939
great time. And she's having a breakdown over

01:35:45.939 --> 01:35:50.380
there because of whatever's happened. Yeah, easy

01:35:50.380 --> 01:35:53.680
mistake to make. Yeah. something that we talked

01:35:53.680 --> 01:35:56.359
about on a previous episode the one about breakups

01:35:56.359 --> 01:35:59.800
from ds relationships yeah is about planning

01:35:59.800 --> 01:36:04.000
for a breakup as best you can and about de -escalation

01:36:04.000 --> 01:36:06.199
from power exchange about how those hard stops

01:36:06.199 --> 01:36:09.220
can be really hard how was that at a distance

01:36:09.220 --> 01:36:11.119
mix i mean i can't imagine it was a fun time

01:36:11.119 --> 01:36:14.739
but it wasn't a fun time no um and it wasn't

01:36:14.739 --> 01:36:18.289
something that we planned for right So in that

01:36:18.289 --> 01:36:20.069
episode, we talked about your experience of a

01:36:20.069 --> 01:36:22.130
DS breakup because that was the episode with

01:36:22.130 --> 01:36:24.970
Hope, wasn't it? It was, yes. And I think one

01:36:24.970 --> 01:36:28.590
of the lessons from that was about actually thinking

01:36:28.590 --> 01:36:30.289
ahead, which is a great lesson to learn, but

01:36:30.289 --> 01:36:32.770
it is not one that I had learned at the time

01:36:32.770 --> 01:36:35.130
of my relationship with my ex -partner. Yeah,

01:36:35.250 --> 01:36:37.130
you never get that right the first time, I don't

01:36:37.130 --> 01:36:40.869
think. No, we were in a pretty good space, other

01:36:40.869 --> 01:36:43.729
than beyond the obvious horribleness of breaking

01:36:43.729 --> 01:36:49.550
up. interpersonally we were in a good space we

01:36:49.550 --> 01:36:52.109
were both very sad about it we were having a

01:36:52.109 --> 01:36:54.229
lot of feelings about it but we weren't rejecting

01:36:54.229 --> 01:36:56.550
each other and we weren't mad at each other for

01:36:56.550 --> 01:37:00.890
it so we fairly quickly kind of had that conversation

01:37:00.890 --> 01:37:03.350
when we needed to and we said we've got a fuck

01:37:03.350 --> 01:37:05.250
ton of rules we've got a fuck ton of routine

01:37:05.250 --> 01:37:08.970
and protocol that we've been following for a

01:37:08.970 --> 01:37:10.850
good while so how do we navigate that and some

01:37:10.850 --> 01:37:12.409
stuff just dropped off straight away so like

01:37:12.409 --> 01:37:16.329
the protocol dropped off straight away I stopped

01:37:16.329 --> 01:37:20.930
making um a lot of the decisions for as you would

01:37:20.930 --> 01:37:24.529
as i think you would probably expect yeah we

01:37:24.529 --> 01:37:27.029
didn't immediately stop the daily list we still

01:37:27.029 --> 01:37:29.329
did that collaboratively but it was more driven

01:37:29.329 --> 01:37:31.289
by her than it was by me i wasn't saying here

01:37:31.289 --> 01:37:33.529
are the things that you need to do tomorrow it

01:37:33.529 --> 01:37:35.210
was it was kind of flipped that conversation

01:37:35.210 --> 01:37:36.909
you go okay so what are the things that you need

01:37:36.909 --> 01:37:39.489
to do tomorrow what are the things that you want

01:37:39.489 --> 01:37:43.369
me to hold you accountable for tomorrow That's

01:37:43.369 --> 01:37:45.289
our list, which I think, and to be fair, we've

01:37:45.289 --> 01:37:49.430
never talked about this. I suspect that element

01:37:49.430 --> 01:37:51.770
of it was probably harder for her than it was

01:37:51.770 --> 01:37:54.949
for me. It felt like a gap for me. It felt like

01:37:54.949 --> 01:38:00.270
a loss for me. But for her, there was an element

01:38:00.270 --> 01:38:03.010
of there is a gap and there is a loss. There

01:38:03.010 --> 01:38:05.550
is a risk that I become less functional as a

01:38:05.550 --> 01:38:08.130
result of that. That was definitely my experience

01:38:08.130 --> 01:38:11.430
when me and Hope broke up is I just. for a little

01:38:11.430 --> 01:38:13.689
bit kind of forgot how to be a person both through

01:38:13.689 --> 01:38:15.649
a combination of not having this structure that

01:38:15.649 --> 01:38:18.270
I'm used to having and also there being no consequences

01:38:18.270 --> 01:38:20.850
no immediate consequences to me doing dumb shit

01:38:20.850 --> 01:38:23.510
so it's like yeah like my entire diet is energy

01:38:23.510 --> 01:38:25.569
drinks and cigarettes now this is great it's

01:38:25.569 --> 01:38:27.850
like that there are consequences to me to doing

01:38:27.850 --> 01:38:30.350
that but I couldn't get in trouble for it so

01:38:30.350 --> 01:38:34.329
I did it yeah yeah yeah yeah it's exactly the

01:38:34.329 --> 01:38:36.949
same sort of sort of thing so it's kind of that

01:38:36.949 --> 01:38:42.439
gradual a gradual de -escalation a gradual ramping

01:38:42.439 --> 01:38:44.460
down of it rather than kind of cutting off cold

01:38:44.460 --> 01:38:49.220
yeah from it and you know to be fair you know

01:38:49.220 --> 01:38:50.939
every every now and again still today she will

01:38:50.939 --> 01:38:53.579
say can you make sure i do this thing yeah tomorrow

01:38:53.579 --> 01:38:55.779
all right yeah i can do that i remember you talking

01:38:55.779 --> 01:38:57.399
to me about that when we first got together you

01:38:57.399 --> 01:39:00.039
were like yeah there is no ongoing relationship

01:39:00.039 --> 01:39:02.859
here but because of the position that i used

01:39:02.859 --> 01:39:05.399
to have in this relationship She sometimes asks

01:39:05.399 --> 01:39:07.079
me to kind of give her, kick up the arse to do

01:39:07.079 --> 01:39:08.640
stuff. Is that okay? And I was like, yeah, of

01:39:08.640 --> 01:39:11.380
course that's okay. That's transitioning into

01:39:11.380 --> 01:39:13.720
a friendship where she knows you have the skills

01:39:13.720 --> 01:39:15.960
to help hold her accountable. And that's, I think

01:39:15.960 --> 01:39:18.479
that's really healthy. Yeah. And that is something

01:39:18.479 --> 01:39:21.159
that is vanishingly rare now. And it's usually

01:39:21.159 --> 01:39:22.979
really, really little things like remind me I

01:39:22.979 --> 01:39:24.399
need to go and drop off my prescription tomorrow.

01:39:24.659 --> 01:39:29.140
Yeah. Yeah. You need to do that, don't you? Microdosing

01:39:29.140 --> 01:39:31.579
speed. So you need to make sure you're doing

01:39:31.579 --> 01:39:39.789
that. um yeah it wasn't planned for we didn't

01:39:39.789 --> 01:39:42.489
have a breakup agreement about how that would

01:39:42.489 --> 01:39:45.590
go but we fairly quickly realized that we needed

01:39:45.590 --> 01:39:48.329
one when we needed it and and came up with one

01:39:48.329 --> 01:39:50.090
which seemed to work you know i used to say like

01:39:50.090 --> 01:39:52.210
the favorite part of my day with her was i would

01:39:52.210 --> 01:39:56.649
always do it on my lunchtime um i ended up eating

01:39:56.649 --> 01:39:59.720
boots meal deals Every single day because Boots

01:39:59.720 --> 01:40:01.460
was right there. It was a five minute walk. I

01:40:01.460 --> 01:40:03.539
would be in, I would be out and I could spend

01:40:03.539 --> 01:40:05.359
the rest of my lunch break working through the

01:40:05.359 --> 01:40:07.140
list so that it was ready for her when she woke

01:40:07.140 --> 01:40:09.840
up. Yeah. And that was quite a big loss for me.

01:40:10.039 --> 01:40:13.100
It was really weird. Big change in routine. Yeah.

01:40:13.939 --> 01:40:16.739
I think people underestimate the impact that

01:40:16.739 --> 01:40:19.460
having responsibility for anyone or anything

01:40:19.460 --> 01:40:22.920
else has on you. like having other people that

01:40:22.920 --> 01:40:24.819
you're responsible for or having pets that you're

01:40:24.819 --> 01:40:26.840
responsible for anything where you're accountable

01:40:26.840 --> 01:40:29.180
to someone other than yourself and you're needed

01:40:29.180 --> 01:40:31.159
by someone other than yourself can sometimes

01:40:31.159 --> 01:40:33.779
make it easier for you to cope with stress because

01:40:33.779 --> 01:40:36.600
it takes the focus away from how you're feeling

01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:39.000
and onto someone else yeah i've often felt like

01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:41.020
my most functional self when i've got other people

01:40:41.020 --> 01:40:43.340
that rely on me and if that suddenly stops like

01:40:43.340 --> 01:40:47.560
ah yeah yeah i think there was an element element

01:40:47.560 --> 01:40:49.619
of that but i still it was i think it was still

01:40:49.619 --> 01:40:51.659
helpful to me so that it wasn't just kind of

01:40:51.659 --> 01:40:54.460
fully no we're done with that and now we're straight

01:40:54.460 --> 01:40:57.539
into being mates but yeah it was a it was it

01:40:57.539 --> 01:40:59.979
was quite tricky and there was just a lot of

01:40:59.979 --> 01:41:01.960
checking in as well you know because it almost

01:41:01.960 --> 01:41:04.979
becomes reflexive yeah how you relate to each

01:41:04.979 --> 01:41:07.000
other and how you talk to each other and stuff

01:41:07.000 --> 01:41:12.380
like that um so there was a lot of kind of checking

01:41:12.380 --> 01:41:14.369
in going oh was that all right kind of thing

01:41:14.369 --> 01:41:16.170
i'm sorry i said that by you know we used to

01:41:16.170 --> 01:41:17.710
have honorifics that we use for each other and

01:41:17.710 --> 01:41:20.130
sometimes they would slip in yeah because it

01:41:20.130 --> 01:41:22.949
becomes muscle memory when you're doing it and

01:41:22.949 --> 01:41:24.770
it's like oh i'm sorry that was a mistake so

01:41:24.770 --> 01:41:27.909
yeah i think just like any other ds dynamic thinking

01:41:27.909 --> 01:41:30.470
about your off ramps ahead of time it's a horrible

01:41:30.470 --> 01:41:32.409
thing to have to think about but probably a smart

01:41:32.409 --> 01:41:35.090
thing to think about yeah i i think people should

01:41:35.090 --> 01:41:37.250
talk about it at least a little bit in any kind

01:41:37.250 --> 01:41:40.920
of relationship not just ds it's Like, yeah,

01:41:40.960 --> 01:41:42.779
no one gets into a relationship intending to

01:41:42.779 --> 01:41:45.140
break up, or at least not many people. But you

01:41:45.140 --> 01:41:47.699
know that it happens to more relationships than

01:41:47.699 --> 01:41:50.180
it doesn't. So at least having a little bit of

01:41:50.180 --> 01:41:52.680
a conversation about what kind of exes you would

01:41:52.680 --> 01:41:54.600
want to be to each other is probably a good idea.

01:41:54.859 --> 01:41:57.060
I agree. So we've talked about some nice stuff

01:41:57.060 --> 01:41:58.939
and we've talked about some challenging stuff.

01:41:59.239 --> 01:42:01.420
And I'm very conscious that both of us have talked

01:42:01.420 --> 01:42:03.979
about long distance or longish distance, in my

01:42:03.979 --> 01:42:06.779
case, relationships that have ended. Yeah. So

01:42:06.779 --> 01:42:08.810
do you think... Do you think it's worth it? Do

01:42:08.810 --> 01:42:11.770
you think it can work, Mix? Yeah, I do. To both

01:42:11.770 --> 01:42:14.069
of those. I think that relationship was definitely

01:42:14.069 --> 01:42:15.729
worth it. It was a really good relationship.

01:42:16.069 --> 01:42:21.350
I have made a really good friend out of it. Had

01:42:21.350 --> 01:42:27.930
an amazing time. Amazing person. So I'm glad

01:42:27.930 --> 01:42:31.130
I had the chance to have that relationship. I

01:42:31.130 --> 01:42:34.800
think I am too clingy for that to be. a relationship

01:42:34.800 --> 01:42:37.800
style for the genuinely long term yeah that makes

01:42:37.800 --> 01:42:43.079
sense i think that would make it like unrealistic

01:42:43.079 --> 01:42:46.899
for me unless like you mentioned with your relationship

01:42:46.899 --> 01:42:50.380
there was that kind of clear plan that you would

01:42:50.380 --> 01:42:52.840
be together it wasn't just something that you

01:42:52.840 --> 01:42:54.399
talked about and go yes it would be great if

01:42:54.399 --> 01:42:56.380
we were together actually that so i think i would

01:42:56.380 --> 01:42:59.000
need that fairly early on to be able to navigate

01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:02.220
another long distance relationship you know Like,

01:43:02.220 --> 01:43:04.279
if we suddenly ended up in a situation where

01:43:04.279 --> 01:43:06.520
we were going to be long distance, to feel fully

01:43:06.520 --> 01:43:07.960
comfortable in that, I would need to go, OK,

01:43:08.039 --> 01:43:11.300
but this is temporary. Yeah. I think it has changed

01:43:11.300 --> 01:43:13.920
my definition of long distance, though. I think,

01:43:13.920 --> 01:43:17.180
like, if you were... Like, if you were in London

01:43:17.180 --> 01:43:19.060
and I was up here, I think I would probably be

01:43:19.060 --> 01:43:21.979
all right with that. Having survived a three

01:43:21.979 --> 01:43:24.020
-year, four -and -a -half -thousand mile. Like,

01:43:24.020 --> 01:43:26.220
would you be OK with that long -term mix? No,

01:43:26.319 --> 01:43:29.649
I think it would be easier for me to... Deal

01:43:29.649 --> 01:43:32.149
with that. I see. Because that would make me

01:43:32.149 --> 01:43:34.350
insane. Yeah. Not living with you would make

01:43:34.350 --> 01:43:37.649
me insane. That's fair. I am not for the long

01:43:37.649 --> 01:43:40.970
distance. I am 100%. I need to move in immediately.

01:43:41.489 --> 01:43:47.149
That's more my place. And same. I think what

01:43:47.149 --> 01:43:49.210
I mean is I would probably be more comfortable

01:43:49.210 --> 01:43:53.130
with that as a situation than I would be with

01:43:53.130 --> 01:43:55.069
an international long distance relationship.

01:43:56.590 --> 01:43:58.850
That's not to say that it would be easy or straightforward

01:43:58.850 --> 01:44:01.930
because I am fundamentally a clingy bitch. Yeah,

01:44:01.949 --> 01:44:05.689
same. Yes, but I think is the answer to that

01:44:05.689 --> 01:44:08.090
question. And just because it's not the right

01:44:08.090 --> 01:44:10.350
fit for us doesn't mean that it can't work. I

01:44:10.350 --> 01:44:12.430
think that's the thing. As we've said a few times,

01:44:12.590 --> 01:44:15.029
we are both really clingy. We are both people

01:44:15.029 --> 01:44:17.420
who like to spend a lot of time together. like

01:44:17.420 --> 01:44:19.140
even for a couple who live together we spend

01:44:19.140 --> 01:44:21.199
a lot of time together yeah we both work from

01:44:21.199 --> 01:44:23.560
home we both tend to do all of our activities

01:44:23.560 --> 01:44:26.460
together or the vast majority of them uh we spend

01:44:26.460 --> 01:44:28.579
very little time apart where i know people who

01:44:28.579 --> 01:44:30.800
aren't long distance you know married couples

01:44:30.800 --> 01:44:32.720
living in the same house who live very separate

01:44:32.720 --> 01:44:34.939
lives because that's their preference yeah and

01:44:34.939 --> 01:44:37.300
i think there are people who because they like

01:44:37.300 --> 01:44:39.380
that higher level of independence and they like

01:44:39.380 --> 01:44:40.800
their own personal space and they like their

01:44:40.800 --> 01:44:43.279
alone time where probably long distance does

01:44:43.279 --> 01:44:46.079
feel really viable Particularly if it is time

01:44:46.079 --> 01:44:48.539
limited, long distance like that, where you do

01:44:48.539 --> 01:44:50.420
have a plan to eventually move to the same place.

01:44:50.520 --> 01:44:53.520
But even really long term, if you like to be

01:44:53.520 --> 01:44:55.920
alone more or you like to have your own life

01:44:55.920 --> 01:44:58.340
independent from your partner a lot more, I think

01:44:58.340 --> 01:45:00.640
that's where it becomes a lot more viable. It's

01:45:00.640 --> 01:45:03.340
just you've listened to a podcast by two people

01:45:03.340 --> 01:45:07.420
who really like the interdependence. Yes. What

01:45:07.420 --> 01:45:09.899
some might call codependence, but what I call

01:45:09.899 --> 01:45:15.800
interdependence and good vibes. Yes. Yeah. Yes,

01:45:15.880 --> 01:45:18.640
we definitely have a perspective on long distance

01:45:18.640 --> 01:45:20.899
relationships, don't we? Which is not the only

01:45:20.899 --> 01:45:23.979
perspective to have. Yeah. But it is ours. Yes.

01:45:24.180 --> 01:45:25.979
And it's our podcast, so we'll say what we like.

01:45:26.199 --> 01:45:29.899
Yeah. Anyone who does long distance should be

01:45:29.899 --> 01:45:38.920
put in prison. There you go. There's the episode

01:45:38.920 --> 01:45:43.199
title. That's definitely not the episode title.

01:45:44.520 --> 01:45:51.359
Clingy bitches might be. There you go. There

01:45:51.359 --> 01:45:53.779
you go. I think we have said everything we were

01:45:53.779 --> 01:45:56.539
going to say. I feel like I've forgotten to say

01:45:56.539 --> 01:45:58.579
an awful lot, but we have been recording for

01:45:58.579 --> 01:46:00.800
a very long time. We have. Let's wrap up there.

01:46:01.420 --> 01:46:25.130
Bye. Bye. See you next time.