WEBVTT

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This is genuinely the most terrifying thing with

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this. Like, we are very clearly not sponsored

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by Riverside, because I'm going to slate them.

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But it just likes to keep me on my toes. It's

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like, not going to show you any lights today.

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Maybe your settings are wrong. Who knows? Random

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buzzes. Yeah. Yeah. But at least we seem to have

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fixed what was causing the random buzz. After

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buying three lots of microphones and trying every

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setting, we think we've prevented that happening

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again. Hopefully. Hopefully. Well, you've said

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it now, though, haven't you? Yeah. Oops. Welcome

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to Don't Scare the Newbies, a podcast where we

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talk kink, raw and unfiltered. I'm Carizal, a

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lifestyle submissive in a 24 -7 dynamic who likes

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their kink heavy, intense and scary. And I'm

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S, Carizal's dominant, who knows how to deliver

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all of the above. And today we're going to be

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talking about financial domination, how that

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works in our relationship and what people think

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of it. Give me all your money. I want money.

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Shit, yes, I should start, shouldn't I? We literally

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just discussed this. We just discussed that I

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am doing the first section of this podcast today.

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Yes, we're talking about financial domination.

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A very, a weirdly divisive topic. Very controversial,

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yeah. I think people don't seem to, you don't

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come across many people who have a kind of, they

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say fair attitude to it. They either think it's

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great or they despise it. Yeah. Findom seems

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to be really, yeah, divisive, polarising. Yeah.

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You know? Which I just think is strange. Yeah.

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You know? But we should probably talk about what

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financial domination is. Yes. I mean, I feel

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like the clue is in the name, but... Yes. Yeah,

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you would think. But just for people who haven't

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interpreted what those words mean, when we talk

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about financial domination, we generally mean

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the act of a submissive person giving money or

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gifts to a dominant or a dominant person. demanding

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money or gifts from a submissive person. And

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there's a really strong element of kind of power

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play with that. And there's a strong kind of

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psychological element to it as well. For some

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people, I think that feeling of being a little

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bit out of control of their finances and having

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at least the perception of real world impacts.

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Yeah, there's a lot of things that it can play

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into psychologically, I think, and that feeling

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of being out of control or having your life impacted

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in some way can be one of them. And I think there's

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a lot about money being a real sort of material

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manifestation of power in a lot of ways. Power

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and money are so intertwined with each other

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anyway that it makes sense that playing with

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that as a form of power is a thing that people

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are drawn to. Yeah, I think so. It's like so

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many kinks, isn't it? It's kind of recreating

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and playing with... real world hierarchies and

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real world structures yeah i suppose you've got

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one person i mean i don't know how i feel about

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it it's almost like the dominance being cast

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as the billionaire class yeah um in this scene

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aren't they just taking the money off the poor

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little plebs and adding it to their own pile

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yeah it's interesting like i i don't I don't

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put a lot of stock in hate comments on TikTok

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because, as I've talked about before, you get

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them for anything. You can do makeup videos,

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cooking videos, whatever, and you'll piss people

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off. But when I posted a video about financial

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domination, I got someone commenting on it saying,

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this is a right -wing kink. And it's like, you're

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a dickhead, but also kinda. Like, you don't have

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to be right -wing to like it. And I think that's

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probably what they meant. But it is sort of playing

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with that, like, let's lean into like... full

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-on unhinged imbalanced capitalism to the max

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in a consenting environment with people who are

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cool with it yeah in a consenting and ethical

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environment which is i think the fundamental

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difference between findom and uh capitalism yeah

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it's the consent and the ethics so welcome to

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uh don't scare the commies a podcast where we

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talk socialism Raw and unfiltered. Oh, no. You

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haven't had the giggles like this since the butt

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stuff episode. I haven't, no. I have a feeling

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you should probably edit that out, but I also

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have a feeling that you won't. No, I absolutely

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won't. It's great. This is what happens when

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you give me full control of the edit. The one

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area of my life with real power. Real power,

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yeah. All the stupid shit that I said. I suppose

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it is also worth acknowledging right at the start

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that there is an element of privilege in financial

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domination as well. Yeah. You have to have a

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level of, in order for it to be safe and ethical,

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you have to have a level of disposable income.

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that you won't necessarily miss yeah or that

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you can at least survive missing how much you

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want to miss it is is down to your comfort level

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yeah um but i think like yes there's an element

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of privilege to having any disposable income

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at all yeah but i don't think you necessarily

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need as much as you might think i know yeah for

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years i sort of said with how many kinks i have

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and how up for anything i am probably fin dom

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is something i'd be really into but i just don't

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have the funds for it and it was always like

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a bit of a joke like yeah i'm not rich enough

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for that shit yeah and part of what has got me

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into exploring it has been being in a position

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where i have got a little bit more money to play

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with but actually there are ways of doing it

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with very token amounts of money because if your

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spare money that you have each month is five

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pounds and you agree that someone can take that

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five pounds off you you're gonna feel it It doesn't

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have to be huge amounts. Yeah, that's a fair

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point. That's a really good point. We know a

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couple who've been dabbling with it a little

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bit, and it's things like the dominant making

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the submissive buy a bag of donuts for her every

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now and again. And I know they're not on a huge

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amount of money, but it's that kind of thing

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where you can scale it. Scalability. Scalability.

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Yep. Shout out to... One of our pals for putting

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that word into our heads. And it will never leave.

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So yeah, that's the politics. That's the politics

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out of the way. Before we divert even further,

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as we tend to do, I wanted to pick up on, you

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obviously defined financial domination as, at

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least largely, at least the majority of how people

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do and see financial domination is about that

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process of taking money or giving money, the

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tributes and the gifts and things like that.

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I think... in a sort of broader sense, financial

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domination. So domination of finances can also

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include things like financial control. So monitoring

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spending for a submissive, for example. It could

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include setting requirements for a submissive

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to manage their money in a certain way. So expecting

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a submissive to hit a savings target. I think

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we're mainly going to focus today on that sort

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of classic financial domination of the dominant

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taking the submissive's money. But... It is a

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broader spectrum than that. And as with all kinks,

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it's so customizable to what needs you want met

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from it that no definition is supposed to be

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prescriptive and put you in a little box. It's

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about how it works for you. Yeah. And there's

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an element of all of that in our dynamic and

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in our relationship, isn't there? It's not just

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about taking your money off you. There is that

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kind of other element of control. Yeah. Which

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I guess you don't see, you know, my experience

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of, you know, the world of kink. kind of don't

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see that aspect of it talked about quite so much

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no um but it's you know another interesting kind

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of play on authority isn't it i was going to

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say it's a relatively new thing for us but sometime

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in october or november of last year wasn't it

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when we started talking about it yeah mix it

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went into our rules it was actually something

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that we agreed at our november check -in but

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obviously that didn't come out of nowhere during

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the check -in we've yeah we started talking about

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that in october possibly even as early as september

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kind of bouncing some ideas around so yeah it

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feels pretty recent but actually that's quite

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a while now yeah yeah we've been doing it a little

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while and in true kink fashion it started as

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a joke I think I was, it was me, wasn't it, that

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kind of made the joke of it was towards the end

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of your pay month. And we were going somewhere.

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We were going to a munch, I think. We were, yes,

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Mix. And I said, jokingly, and I will say that

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again, jokingly, wouldn't it be funny if I made

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you pay for everything today? Yeah. And that's

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kind of where it started. Yeah, because unfortunately,

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because of who I am as a person, I was immediately

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wet. Yes, yes, you were. Like the filthy little

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pervert. That you are. But we didn't jump into

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it straight away. We actually had quite a lot

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of conversations about it. We did. Before we

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got into it. Because as we will discuss, it is

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a bit of a... it is a bit of a head fuck when

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you first start to think about it yeah real ethical

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minefield yeah i think so and i think particularly

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for the way that we do it so a lot of what we're

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going to talk about today is about it's obviously

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talking about our experience of it within our

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24 7 total power exchange romantic relationship

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yeah and that's a very specific context for any

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type of financial control but financial domination

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to operate within and is probably not typical

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of what most people would see. Yeah, I agree.

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It's not a form of financial domination you see

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represented a lot, and I have definitely encountered

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other people who do it in personal relationships,

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but it's often seen as a very impersonal kink,

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something that's sort of practiced at a distance,

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often without any other kinks really being involved,

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maybe some humiliation and degradation, but not

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something that's integrated into a dynamic like

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ours as commonly. Yeah, yeah. based on our on

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based on our experience of the world of kink

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yes we don't see lots of people doing it in the

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way that we do it yeah so the way that we talk

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about it today might be a little bit different

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from what people would expect or what people

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might have themselves have experienced because

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we're doing it in a different doing it in a different

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context yes yeah absolutely because the version

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of findom that we do is As you say, very much

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based on our relationship, our personal relationship,

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where there's a lot of other stuff going on,

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including normal couple -y stuff. And the version

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of Fyndom that people have usually heard of would

00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:49.500
be the professional version. Yeah. It's something

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that people see a lot of sex workers online,

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sometimes in person, but primarily online, I

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think. Yeah. Doing with a client base. Although

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part of what might be enjoyable for both people

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involved, not just for the client, might be the

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domination of it and the power of it. Ultimately,

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it is the way that a person is making a living

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in a lot of cases. And that is not to say that

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that is a lesser form or a bad form or that that's

00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:18.679
a problem in any way. But I think that also gives

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people a perception then that it is only something

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that people do as a job. And that it's not really

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a legitimate kink in its own right. They see

00:11:25.970 --> 00:11:29.090
it as just a way of making money. Because that's

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the only context they tend to see it in. Rather

00:11:31.269 --> 00:11:34.190
than seeing it as a service being provided and

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a kink that, as I say, everyone involved may

00:11:36.210 --> 00:11:39.009
well be genuinely into. They only see the financial

00:11:39.009 --> 00:11:42.850
aspect of what's happening there. Yeah, it's

00:11:42.850 --> 00:11:46.169
often perceived, isn't it, as purely transactional.

00:11:46.570 --> 00:11:49.470
Yeah. And not a lot more than that, which I think

00:11:49.470 --> 00:11:51.429
it can be that. It can be that when it's unethical.

00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:53.720
And it can be that and ethical if everybody's

00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:58.120
into it. Yeah. But you do see a lot of, like,

00:11:58.220 --> 00:12:01.700
particularly ethical professional doms actually

00:12:01.700 --> 00:12:04.279
take a lot of interest in the people that they're

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doing that with and have a lot of guardrails

00:12:07.659 --> 00:12:11.059
around how it works. Yeah. I've seen a lot of

00:12:11.059 --> 00:12:15.000
content posted by professional doms, either specifically

00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.019
fin doms or just pro doms who do fin dom as part

00:12:18.019 --> 00:12:20.700
of what they do. And the good ones talk about

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their ethics quite transparently. They might

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have some stuff that's more kind of meant to

00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:26.500
be a little bit spicy and it's marketing and

00:12:26.500 --> 00:12:28.480
it's just like, yeah, I'm going to drain every

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penny in your bank account and leave you broke

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and leave you in debt and stuff like that. But

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they will also talk about, okay, but this is

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how I don't actually do that. And then you'll

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see people where they are not necessarily approaching

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it ethically. And I definitely encountered this

00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:44.820
when I was a sex worker that I would speak to

00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:46.379
other sex workers and a lot of people would be

00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:49.000
like, If you want to make easy money, get into

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Findom. Like, you can just ask these guys to

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send you a grand and they'll do it. It's great.

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And it's like, yes, that sounds wonderful. Who

00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:58.019
doesn't love to receive a big pile of money?

00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:02.059
But you still have a responsibility because I

00:13:02.059 --> 00:13:04.399
think being horny is so mind -altering, right?

00:13:04.659 --> 00:13:06.899
Some of the dumbest decisions I make in my life

00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:09.039
are because I'm horny. And some of the best ones.

00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:14.299
But it is like being intoxicated. It is intoxicating.

00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.779
And it's very easy to make a decision. while

00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:21.700
you're horny while you're mid wank that you will

00:13:21.700 --> 00:13:24.480
regret afterwards post -nut clarity kicks in

00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:26.379
and your bank account's empty it's like ah shit

00:13:26.379 --> 00:13:28.600
yeah and i think that's a really big responsibility

00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.279
for for someone to take on like i never did it

00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:33.379
when i was a sex worker partly because doing

00:13:33.379 --> 00:13:35.659
anything dominant just gave me the ick i used

00:13:35.659 --> 00:13:37.259
to get because i'm really tall i used to get

00:13:37.259 --> 00:13:39.019
a lot of requests of like will you step on me

00:13:39.019 --> 00:13:41.320
and will you verbally abuse me and will you hit

00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:42.860
me and stuff and it's like oh god no i can't

00:13:42.860 --> 00:13:46.139
do that much as nothing is inherently a dominant

00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:48.230
or a submissive act if something feels like a

00:13:48.230 --> 00:13:50.610
dominant act to me i cannot do it i'm too sub

00:13:50.610 --> 00:13:53.370
for that shit um so yeah financial domination

00:13:53.370 --> 00:13:56.570
wouldn't have appealed to me anyway but i also

00:13:56.570 --> 00:13:59.850
even at the time without all the knowledge of

00:13:59.850 --> 00:14:02.629
kink and ethics that i have now was just like

00:14:02.629 --> 00:14:04.870
i don't want to be in a position where i've maybe

00:14:04.870 --> 00:14:07.309
left it so someone can't pay their bills where

00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:09.909
their wife can't pay their bills yeah yeah like

00:14:09.909 --> 00:14:11.529
where their kids are going to go without something

00:14:11.529 --> 00:14:13.710
you don't know people's circumstances i think

00:14:13.710 --> 00:14:17.250
it's something to approach so carefully And the

00:14:17.250 --> 00:14:20.090
good pro -doms do. They check those kind of things

00:14:20.090 --> 00:14:21.590
and they talk about those kind of things as part

00:14:21.590 --> 00:14:27.269
of their negotiation. Yeah. I'm not saying the

00:14:27.269 --> 00:14:29.330
way that we negotiated it and the ethics that

00:14:29.330 --> 00:14:31.769
we apply to it is universal or the best way of

00:14:31.769 --> 00:14:33.149
doing it. There's probably a lot of similarities

00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:37.409
around how an ethical dominant, whether they're

00:14:37.409 --> 00:14:42.470
a professional or lifestyle or whatever label

00:14:42.470 --> 00:14:46.600
they use for themselves, those kind of... rules

00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:49.460
and boundaries around it i think probably probably

00:14:49.460 --> 00:14:52.220
fairly fairly universal fairly common i would

00:14:52.220 --> 00:14:54.240
have thought yeah and i could see this being

00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:55.940
a topic that we revisit with a guest sometime

00:14:55.940 --> 00:14:58.639
because it's such a versatile kink we're going

00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:00.159
to be talking about the way we do it but there

00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:02.059
are so many different ways that you could do

00:15:02.059 --> 00:15:03.440
it and it would be really interesting to hear

00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:08.039
other people's versions of findom yeah yeah i

00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:10.379
think there is something one of the one of the

00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:12.580
perceptions that people are going to have i hesitated

00:15:12.580 --> 00:15:15.620
to use the word misconception then But one of

00:15:15.620 --> 00:15:19.179
the perceptions that people have of Findoms,

00:15:19.179 --> 00:15:22.320
probably coming from that kind of experience

00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:25.539
that you had of fellow sex workers saying, this

00:15:25.539 --> 00:15:27.659
is just a really easy way to make money. Yeah.

00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:32.059
Is that it is essentially a scam. Yeah. And there

00:15:32.059 --> 00:15:34.340
are doubtless people out there practicing Findom

00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:37.740
in a way that is essentially a scam. But it's

00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:40.960
a weird assumption to make. It is, yeah. It's

00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.070
making that jump that because... because something

00:15:44.070 --> 00:15:46.490
involves money being taken from you or you giving

00:15:46.490 --> 00:15:48.730
your money to someone that that is inherently

00:15:48.730 --> 00:15:50.990
worse than any other vulnerability that you give

00:15:50.990 --> 00:15:53.710
up yeah to any kind of dominant whether whether

00:15:53.710 --> 00:15:57.450
pro or otherwise um people i think money can

00:15:57.450 --> 00:16:00.370
be quite a generally taboo uncomfortable subject

00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:02.750
and so people are understandably wary about that

00:16:02.750 --> 00:16:04.850
and it has a real world impact on you like quite

00:16:04.850 --> 00:16:06.990
a serious impact if you don't manage money well

00:16:06.990 --> 00:16:11.580
yeah um and it can often the vibe of it can be

00:16:11.580 --> 00:16:13.840
like scams like i know there's versions of findom

00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:17.399
that involve like blackmail or getting people

00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:19.159
to send huge sums of money over the internet

00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:21.100
to someone who they'll never meet and it's yeah

00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:23.600
it starts to cross over with those things like

00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:25.360
you know like relationship scams that happen

00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.779
online where it's like oh i need 10 000 pounds

00:16:27.779 --> 00:16:29.940
to get into your country and if you send it to

00:16:29.940 --> 00:16:32.220
me i'll i'll totally date you and then the person

00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:35.299
doesn't even exist yeah um so there's an element

00:16:35.299 --> 00:16:38.210
of that to it Not an element of that to the kink,

00:16:38.210 --> 00:16:41.250
but an element of how it functions and how it

00:16:41.250 --> 00:16:44.450
looks from the outside. Yeah. Because it's interesting

00:16:44.450 --> 00:16:46.370
what you said about that difference between the

00:16:46.370 --> 00:16:49.350
marketing and the reality of it. You know, because

00:16:49.350 --> 00:16:52.409
I've seen, you know, people who are people who

00:16:52.409 --> 00:16:56.429
practice Vindom who essentially say exactly what

00:16:56.429 --> 00:16:58.690
you said earlier on. I'm going to drain all of

00:16:58.690 --> 00:17:00.110
your money. I'm going to scam you out of all

00:17:00.110 --> 00:17:02.309
of your money. Yeah. I'm going to. leave you

00:17:02.309 --> 00:17:04.410
ruined, all of that kind of stuff. And a lot

00:17:04.410 --> 00:17:06.069
of the time you then see the small print at the

00:17:06.069 --> 00:17:08.089
bottom. But we're going to have a really deep

00:17:08.089 --> 00:17:10.029
conversation about this before I do anything.

00:17:10.309 --> 00:17:13.750
Yeah. And then there are people who use that

00:17:13.750 --> 00:17:19.970
as honest marketing. Yeah. So not actually a

00:17:19.970 --> 00:17:22.990
scam artist, but they almost kind of advertise

00:17:22.990 --> 00:17:26.049
themselves as that way. You know, I'm not offering

00:17:26.049 --> 00:17:28.589
anything. You won't get anything. All I want

00:17:28.589 --> 00:17:29.970
is your money and you're going to send it to

00:17:29.970 --> 00:17:32.549
me. Yeah. kind of thing and i think there's a

00:17:32.549 --> 00:17:35.410
for me there's a weird bit of respect about that

00:17:35.410 --> 00:17:38.789
if they're kind of telling you who they are and

00:17:38.789 --> 00:17:42.250
how they operate and there's a part of me which

00:17:42.250 --> 00:17:44.549
thinks well buyer beware if you get involved

00:17:44.549 --> 00:17:47.029
in that kind of kind of thing there is definitely

00:17:47.029 --> 00:17:49.430
there is definitely situations where people are

00:17:49.430 --> 00:17:51.309
taking advantage of people who are in vulnerable

00:17:51.309 --> 00:17:53.750
situations or people who are vulnerable and leaving

00:17:53.750 --> 00:17:55.630
them even more vulnerable but there is also a

00:17:55.630 --> 00:17:57.230
little bit of personal responsibility on the

00:17:57.230 --> 00:18:00.069
on the submissive side for that you know if you're

00:18:00.069 --> 00:18:05.309
entering into a any kind of fin dom dynamic relationship

00:18:05.309 --> 00:18:07.930
whatever and the person is saying you're going

00:18:07.930 --> 00:18:10.589
to give me money and i'm going to spend it and

00:18:10.589 --> 00:18:12.730
that's the end of our interaction what else did

00:18:12.730 --> 00:18:16.029
you expect yeah so it's that really really strange

00:18:16.029 --> 00:18:19.750
gray ethical area for me about we talk a lot

00:18:19.750 --> 00:18:23.789
quite rightly about how the dominant person in

00:18:23.789 --> 00:18:26.630
that interaction has to act in an ethical way

00:18:26.630 --> 00:18:29.990
but the person in the submissive part of that

00:18:29.990 --> 00:18:34.230
interaction needs to act in an informed way yeah

00:18:34.230 --> 00:18:38.329
you know in a in an aware way and not just thinking

00:18:38.329 --> 00:18:41.609
with their dick because it is usually not wanting

00:18:41.609 --> 00:18:44.289
to gender everybody who is a finn sub but it

00:18:44.289 --> 00:18:46.950
is generally men That's definitely the perception

00:18:46.950 --> 00:18:48.750
of it and it does seem to be the most represented.

00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:52.529
I'm always interested in whether we don't see

00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:55.329
different styles of financial domination represented

00:18:55.329 --> 00:18:58.170
as much because less people are doing it or because

00:18:58.170 --> 00:19:00.349
there's so much controversy around financial

00:19:00.349 --> 00:19:03.069
domination that people who don't have to market

00:19:03.069 --> 00:19:05.369
themselves because it's not their job just keep

00:19:05.369 --> 00:19:08.390
quiet about it. Yeah. I think it's one that carries

00:19:08.390 --> 00:19:10.759
a lot of shame for a lot of people. And not the

00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:12.940
fun kind of shame, not like, oh, it's so humiliating,

00:19:12.940 --> 00:19:15.299
all my money's gone. But like, actually feeling

00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:17.299
like they're going to be judged by people whose

00:19:17.299 --> 00:19:20.140
opinions they value. Yeah. I think there is sometimes

00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:23.420
an element of that. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's

00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:25.180
it. And there definitely was an element of that

00:19:25.180 --> 00:19:28.539
for me. Yeah. I think that worry about how the

00:19:28.539 --> 00:19:31.720
people in our circle would think about me and

00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:35.799
think about us if we did that. Yeah. I think

00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:40.329
was a consideration. that i had when we were

00:19:40.329 --> 00:19:42.410
kind of talking about it and thinking through

00:19:42.410 --> 00:19:45.430
how it would work um but i think that was i think

00:19:45.430 --> 00:19:47.589
that was mostly because of the existing income

00:19:47.589 --> 00:19:50.630
differential that we have and people being at

00:19:50.630 --> 00:19:52.630
least vaguely aware of that kind of it feels

00:19:52.630 --> 00:19:57.049
like a potentially an ethically murky area because

00:19:57.049 --> 00:20:00.690
i earn more than you yeah um and yet here i am

00:20:00.690 --> 00:20:04.460
taking what little amount of money i still have

00:20:04.460 --> 00:20:08.559
yeah yeah yeah well exactly exactly yeah and

00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:11.559
you know you said that jokingly which was good

00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:15.480
but yeah that was the worry that i had they're

00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:16.880
going well hang on a minute this person already

00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.940
earns a fair chunk less than you and you're reducing

00:20:19.940 --> 00:20:22.720
their spending power even further for your own

00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.700
benefit like i worried about the perception of

00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:28.779
others i can understand about that yeah you know

00:20:28.779 --> 00:20:32.309
um Both within the circle of people that we know

00:20:32.309 --> 00:20:34.769
and the circle of people that we don't kind of

00:20:34.769 --> 00:20:37.829
interact with us. Yeah. I think I worried less,

00:20:37.849 --> 00:20:39.670
maybe partly because it's easier for me because

00:20:39.670 --> 00:20:41.789
you're the one who'd be getting judged, not me.

00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:43.829
But often that gets my back up more. Like if

00:20:43.829 --> 00:20:46.049
people have a problem with you, I have a big

00:20:46.049 --> 00:20:49.750
problem with them. Yeah, yeah. I think it was

00:20:49.750 --> 00:20:53.089
that I figured that people who knew us wouldn't.

00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:55.859
I wouldn't have that reaction because they don't

00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:57.380
have that reaction to any of the stuff that we

00:20:57.380 --> 00:20:58.900
do. And we do some pretty off the wall stuff.

00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.000
Yeah. And I care less, I think, about the opinions

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.720
of people outside of our circle. People that

00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.180
we meet at one or two munches who think, God,

00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:08.599
what they're doing is a little bit weird. It's

00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:11.059
like, does that really impact on our lives? No.

00:21:11.660 --> 00:21:13.759
Yeah. But people's reaction has generally been

00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:15.099
positive. I think a lot of people are really

00:21:15.099 --> 00:21:17.559
interested and curious to hear about a version

00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:19.559
of Fandom that maybe does defy some of their

00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:23.460
stereotypes and expectations. Yeah. Yeah, because

00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:25.259
we're doing it within the context of our relationship

00:21:25.259 --> 00:21:30.460
and not as a slightly disconnected. Yeah. Disconnected

00:21:30.460 --> 00:21:32.240
thing and not as a professional thing. Yeah.

00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:35.579
I think disconnected is exactly how it's often

00:21:35.579 --> 00:21:37.839
seen, whether it's professional or not. It's

00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:41.140
seen as something that is done at both often

00:21:41.140 --> 00:21:43.079
a physical distance and quite a big emotional

00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:47.099
distance. Yeah. It's seen as very sort of, trying

00:21:47.099 --> 00:21:49.380
to think of the right word for this, very hierarchical.

00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:52.039
Yeah. in in the way that it's done obviously

00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:55.119
any power exchanges to an extent but creating

00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:58.740
a much bigger distance in status between the

00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:01.460
dominant and the submissive yeah because of the

00:22:01.460 --> 00:22:03.500
way that it's often done where it's either done

00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:05.279
with the expectation of nothing in return for

00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:08.900
the money yeah or where all you'll get back is

00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:13.180
sort of humiliation and insults and of course

00:22:13.180 --> 00:22:16.579
i'm entitled to this um it feels like a more

00:22:16.579 --> 00:22:19.309
impersonal kink yeah than getting right up in

00:22:19.309 --> 00:22:21.349
someone's face and giving them a slap you know

00:22:21.349 --> 00:22:23.950
it's yeah it's got a feel to it that can be less

00:22:23.950 --> 00:22:25.990
intimate and i don't think it has to be and in

00:22:25.990 --> 00:22:29.769
some ways that that massive power gap can be

00:22:29.769 --> 00:22:31.910
very intimate if you're a dominant and a submissive

00:22:31.910 --> 00:22:34.150
yeah but i can understand where that external

00:22:34.150 --> 00:22:36.950
perception comes from that it maybe feels a lot

00:22:36.950 --> 00:22:40.289
more removed from sex than yeah spanking someone

00:22:40.289 --> 00:22:44.150
or tying someone up does yeah yeah i think so

00:22:44.150 --> 00:22:46.109
it's less physically intimate in those kind of

00:22:46.990 --> 00:22:50.369
context is it but again you do see the kind of

00:22:50.369 --> 00:22:54.910
people who do it professionally um really having

00:22:54.910 --> 00:22:57.789
quite a lot of care for the for the submissives

00:22:57.789 --> 00:23:01.769
in that um and and part of that might just be

00:23:01.769 --> 00:23:04.710
how that how they how they operate and and they

00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:06.650
want to have that kind of slightly more personal

00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:09.950
connection to them and part of it might be a

00:23:09.950 --> 00:23:14.710
um part of it might be a business thing or actually

00:23:14.710 --> 00:23:16.589
if you look after if you look after your fin

00:23:16.589 --> 00:23:19.250
subs they will look after you yeah kind of kind

00:23:19.250 --> 00:23:21.670
of thing you know so it's that kind of mutually

00:23:21.670 --> 00:23:24.309
beneficial transaction that you've got going

00:23:24.309 --> 00:23:26.089
on yeah like i mean from a business perspective

00:23:26.089 --> 00:23:29.329
what you want for a sustainable business is not

00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:31.269
one big payment every now and again you want

00:23:31.579 --> 00:23:34.039
regular monthly subscribers essentially yeah

00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:36.599
and that's why every business is driven so much

00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:39.740
by retention and customer loyalty and stuff even

00:23:39.740 --> 00:23:41.200
if they're not very good at it that's always

00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:43.680
the aim because you can predict that you can

00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:45.720
you can create your business model based on it

00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.339
yeah a customer who comes in once and you completely

00:23:48.339 --> 00:23:50.299
empty their bank account and take 20 grand off

00:23:50.299 --> 00:23:52.559
them and then they go ah that was silly wasn't

00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:54.859
it i never speak to you again yeah it's not actually

00:23:54.859 --> 00:23:57.000
good for your business no yeah because then you

00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.440
have to find another one yeah that might be achievable

00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.430
it just sounds like hard work Yeah. It sounds

00:24:02.430 --> 00:24:07.309
like a lot of work, doesn't it? It does. I could

00:24:07.309 --> 00:24:09.789
definitely not do this professionally. I would

00:24:09.789 --> 00:24:15.089
be terrible at it. It does make sense, though,

00:24:15.130 --> 00:24:16.910
why people often see this as a professional thing,

00:24:16.970 --> 00:24:18.630
not just because of representation, but I think

00:24:18.630 --> 00:24:21.670
as soon as money's involved, it does sort of

00:24:21.670 --> 00:24:24.470
get put into that box. Yeah. It's an interesting

00:24:24.470 --> 00:24:28.829
one where us playing with money. And financial

00:24:28.829 --> 00:24:31.849
domination isn't the only area where money comes

00:24:31.849 --> 00:24:33.869
into our kinks, like the way that we split sort

00:24:33.869 --> 00:24:35.990
of the cost of appearance control, for example.

00:24:36.210 --> 00:24:40.109
Yeah. But it's easy to see from the outside looking

00:24:40.109 --> 00:24:42.190
in things starting to look like business transactions

00:24:42.190 --> 00:24:44.910
because that's what money is in real life. Yeah.

00:24:44.990 --> 00:24:47.230
That's what it is in literally any other context.

00:24:47.269 --> 00:24:51.289
You can give money as gifts, but money is what

00:24:51.289 --> 00:24:54.509
keeps businesses going. And it's hard to see

00:24:54.509 --> 00:24:57.150
how playing with money can feel non -transactional.

00:24:57.599 --> 00:24:59.839
yeah and i guess i mean feeling transactional

00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:02.259
is kind of the point sometimes but yeah but to

00:25:02.259 --> 00:25:04.380
see it as a form of intimacy and not just something

00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:06.559
that someone would do for the money yeah it's

00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:08.019
hard for us to get our head around because a

00:25:08.019 --> 00:25:10.099
lot of the time money when money's involved it's

00:25:10.099 --> 00:25:14.420
the primary motivator yeah yeah that's true and

00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:15.799
i think that's what makes this such a fascinating

00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:18.640
topic is that it's such a broad thing yeah it

00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:21.019
is much wider it involves much more than people

00:25:21.019 --> 00:25:24.150
would typically typically thing this might be

00:25:24.150 --> 00:25:25.890
a little bit of a diversion but one thing that

00:25:25.890 --> 00:25:31.450
has just occurred to me is um i don't know whether

00:25:31.450 --> 00:25:33.549
this count would count as financial domination

00:25:33.549 --> 00:25:39.589
but some dominance usually femme presenting dominance

00:25:39.589 --> 00:25:45.069
um will kind of have a process for people who

00:25:45.069 --> 00:25:48.470
want to approach them and actually what they

00:25:48.470 --> 00:25:51.230
say is if you want to approach me show me that

00:25:51.230 --> 00:25:53.789
you're serious by sending me a tribute yeah and

00:25:53.789 --> 00:25:56.690
it doesn't it depends on the dominant i suppose

00:25:56.690 --> 00:25:58.789
sometimes it is a trivial amount so it's symbolic

00:25:58.789 --> 00:26:02.349
and sometimes it is not a trivial amount which

00:26:02.349 --> 00:26:04.730
is also symbolic yeah and i don't know whether

00:26:04.730 --> 00:26:08.869
that kind of would fall under findom i can absolutely

00:26:08.869 --> 00:26:10.890
understand why some of them might do it because

00:26:10.890 --> 00:26:14.849
it filters out a lot of people i think it's a

00:26:14.849 --> 00:26:17.690
really good way of really showing the value of

00:26:17.690 --> 00:26:20.700
your respect as well I would say that it falls

00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:23.019
under the Fyndom umbrella, but it might be, for

00:26:23.019 --> 00:26:24.960
some people, the only area of Fyndom that they're

00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.920
interested in. And beyond that point, it is no

00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:31.700
longer a feature. But it is recognising the symbolic

00:26:31.700 --> 00:26:36.259
value of money as power and respect and showing

00:26:36.259 --> 00:26:38.480
that you're taking something seriously. Yeah.

00:26:38.539 --> 00:26:41.200
And time as well. Yeah. Dominance, time. yeah

00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.220
because female dominance particularly get absolutely

00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:46.619
bombarded with messages and a lot of the messages

00:26:46.619 --> 00:26:49.839
they get are just unhinged yeah like there are

00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:52.180
it's not all of them i wouldn't say it's even

00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:54.460
a majority but there is enough male submissives

00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:56.799
who are really letting the side down and having

00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.000
some way of filtering out the people who don't

00:27:00.220 --> 00:27:02.759
value your time and aren't prepared to show you

00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:05.519
adequate respect by putting an actual value on

00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:08.339
that an actual monetary value i think makes a

00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:10.640
lot of sense yeah it's it's an interesting one

00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:12.440
because it's got a different feel to a lot of

00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:14.940
financial domination not not all by any means

00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:17.859
but a lot of financial domination ties into sort

00:27:17.859 --> 00:27:20.940
of humiliation it's look how weak and pathetic

00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:23.420
you are giving over all this stuff to me where

00:27:23.420 --> 00:27:27.480
that i think doesn't generally have that humiliating

00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:30.900
connotation to it it's more about demonstrating

00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:34.920
respect yeah and that's not putting the submissive

00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:36.819
into a lower position it's just putting the dominant

00:27:36.819 --> 00:27:39.059
into a higher position in relation to them yeah

00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:43.000
which isn't quite the same yeah yeah it's a really

00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:44.920
good way of putting it it's it's emphasizing

00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:49.140
the power difference without demeaning the submissive

00:27:49.140 --> 00:27:51.079
i suppose which is so it's just another facet

00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:54.660
of this weird weird world a weird wide world

00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:58.019
of financial domination yeah it's another angle

00:27:58.019 --> 00:28:00.599
to it yeah and that i mean this would become

00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:02.380
a huge diversion if i talk about it too much

00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:04.839
but it's interesting thinking about the ways

00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:08.160
that we create power difference in play and dynamics

00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.240
in any interactions between subs and doms yeah

00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:16.299
how often it is about reducing the submissive

00:28:16.299 --> 00:28:18.359
while the dominant stays still how often it is

00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:20.740
about how often is it about elevating the dominant

00:28:20.740 --> 00:28:22.619
while submissive stays still and how often are

00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:25.220
both of us actually moving in relation to each

00:28:25.220 --> 00:28:27.619
other it's really interesting because i think

00:28:27.619 --> 00:28:31.220
i often what i want from a power exchange is

00:28:31.220 --> 00:28:33.240
for me to feel reduced to something less than

00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:35.980
human and you to be elevated to something more

00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:38.779
like a god we're both moving away from the middle

00:28:38.779 --> 00:28:42.019
yeah but not everyone necessarily involves both

00:28:42.019 --> 00:28:44.480
of those and i think findom sometimes highlights

00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:46.160
that more than others but you can see it in any

00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:51.259
kink yeah yeah i think so i guess you could think

00:28:51.259 --> 00:28:53.559
about that in terms of domestic service yeah

00:28:54.009 --> 00:28:56.930
Like you are, with the exception of my office,

00:28:57.210 --> 00:29:02.210
which I therefore just leave, you are responsible

00:29:02.210 --> 00:29:05.970
for all of the domestic tasks around the house.

00:29:06.049 --> 00:29:09.049
Yeah. As part of our contract and as part of

00:29:09.049 --> 00:29:14.369
our dynamic. So you often will be... pottering

00:29:14.369 --> 00:29:16.230
around the house doing all sorts of different

00:29:16.230 --> 00:29:18.809
tasks in all sorts of different rooms and multitasking

00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:20.750
and and getting up a bit of a sweat while i'm

00:29:20.750 --> 00:29:22.450
sat on the sofa staring at my phone playing silly

00:29:22.450 --> 00:29:26.029
little word games yeah um new york times crossword

00:29:26.029 --> 00:29:27.710
for the win and i guess it's interesting to think

00:29:27.710 --> 00:29:31.329
about what in terms of moving which which direction

00:29:31.329 --> 00:29:33.950
that would go in because i don't necessarily

00:29:33.950 --> 00:29:37.690
think that that reduces you but it would elevate

00:29:37.690 --> 00:29:41.289
me I think because I am being attended to. I

00:29:41.289 --> 00:29:44.369
agree. Service for me is very much about seeing

00:29:44.369 --> 00:29:47.609
you as above such things as doing your own laundry.

00:29:47.910 --> 00:29:51.130
Yeah. Like you are too important to have to wash

00:29:51.130 --> 00:29:53.910
a plate. That's very much my headspace when I'm

00:29:53.910 --> 00:29:56.529
doing service. And that's why I hate it so much

00:29:56.529 --> 00:29:59.490
when you do a task when I'm not well and you're

00:29:59.490 --> 00:30:00.789
like, I'm going to wash up and I'm sitting here

00:30:00.789 --> 00:30:02.910
on the couch going, no, please, please don't

00:30:02.910 --> 00:30:07.150
wash up. Yeah. Yeah. It is because I see it as

00:30:07.150 --> 00:30:09.930
beneath you. Yeah. But some of the ways we play

00:30:09.930 --> 00:30:13.069
particularly are about dehumanizing and objectifying

00:30:13.069 --> 00:30:15.769
me. Yeah. Which we are going to talk about next

00:30:15.769 --> 00:30:17.609
week when we talk about degradation and humiliation.

00:30:17.970 --> 00:30:22.150
Ooh, nice trailer. Yeah. Good plug. See? It's

00:30:22.150 --> 00:30:23.650
so good when I'm organized with my scheduling

00:30:23.650 --> 00:30:25.009
and I actually know what's next. Actually know

00:30:25.009 --> 00:30:27.670
what's coming next. Yeah, yeah. But now you have

00:30:27.670 --> 00:30:29.410
to remember that you've said this to make sure

00:30:29.410 --> 00:30:33.190
that we preserve the order. Yes. Of when we publish

00:30:33.190 --> 00:30:35.009
them. We're going to have to publish these a

00:30:35.009 --> 00:30:38.750
week apart. Yes. This is where all our guests

00:30:38.750 --> 00:30:40.250
come back to us and go, hey, can we move our

00:30:40.250 --> 00:30:42.210
episodes around? And I start screaming and I

00:30:42.210 --> 00:30:46.990
never stop. Start sobbing. Yeah. So we've talked

00:30:46.990 --> 00:30:49.690
quite a lot about ethics. We've touched on quite

00:30:49.690 --> 00:30:52.710
a lot ethics. But I think that was something

00:30:52.710 --> 00:30:56.170
that was a particularly big challenge for you,

00:30:56.230 --> 00:30:59.769
was getting your head around not how we could

00:30:59.769 --> 00:31:02.150
make it ethical, I think, so much as how you

00:31:02.150 --> 00:31:04.789
could feel OK with how ethical we made it, if

00:31:04.789 --> 00:31:10.680
that's a fair summary mix. yes is my straightforward

00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:15.859
answer to that yes yes um yeah it was i think

00:31:15.859 --> 00:31:18.619
it took me a while to get my head around it and

00:31:18.619 --> 00:31:22.440
and i did quite a lot of i think appropriate

00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:25.599
thinking rather than overthinking i am prone

00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:28.220
to overthinking i completely accept that but

00:31:28.220 --> 00:31:31.579
i think in this one for this it was it felt appropriate

00:31:31.579 --> 00:31:33.920
to really kind of examine how i felt about it

00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.970
not how i felt about findom as a kink but how

00:31:37.970 --> 00:31:40.869
I felt about how we would do it and whether I

00:31:40.869 --> 00:31:45.329
was comfortable with that. Because I think one

00:31:45.329 --> 00:31:47.150
of the really good things about us, one of the

00:31:47.150 --> 00:31:49.390
many, many, many, many, many, many, many good

00:31:49.390 --> 00:31:52.390
things about us is actually we've always been

00:31:52.390 --> 00:31:55.869
quite open about money. I think we've always

00:31:55.869 --> 00:31:57.970
been open about it. I don't know if it was necessarily

00:31:57.970 --> 00:31:59.970
easy for me, at least in the early days. I don't

00:31:59.970 --> 00:32:01.809
know how you felt about talking about money mix,

00:32:01.910 --> 00:32:05.680
but I... I found it really hard at first. Right.

00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.680
And I think... I was not aware of that. No, because

00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:10.579
I found that hard to tell you as well. So I'm

00:32:10.579 --> 00:32:12.619
telling you now while we're mic'd up. Yeah, so

00:32:12.619 --> 00:32:16.660
I've never been in a relationship before where

00:32:16.660 --> 00:32:19.759
I was not the main earner. Yeah. And we've talked

00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:25.039
about that. so a lot of my past either I've just

00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:26.920
been on my own and been responsible for everything

00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:29.440
myself or I've been in a relationship with someone

00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:32.720
who either couldn't work or had more unstable

00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:35.539
employment or I was in a position where I actually

00:32:35.539 --> 00:32:37.599
said actually I don't think you should work because

00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:39.299
there's no point there was you know when I was

00:32:39.299 --> 00:32:41.619
a sex worker I told my partner at the time there

00:32:41.619 --> 00:32:43.839
is no point you doing the minimum wage job that

00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:45.440
you currently have when I can earn your weekly

00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:49.160
wage in a good night So I've never been in a

00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:51.019
position where someone else is earning more than

00:32:51.019 --> 00:32:55.299
me. And I found it so uncomfortable to talk to

00:32:55.299 --> 00:32:56.720
you about money in the early days, not because

00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.920
I thought you'd react badly, but because I was

00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.519
terrified of coming across like a gold digger.

00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:04.819
Like if I asked you how much you earned or if

00:33:04.819 --> 00:33:06.220
I talked to you about, so how are we going to

00:33:06.220 --> 00:33:09.480
split bills and stuff? It just felt like anything

00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:12.859
I said ran the risk of giving the wrong impression.

00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:16.779
And it's so daft, like in hindsight. no offense

00:33:16.779 --> 00:33:20.380
you have a lovely home and a good wage but if

00:33:20.380 --> 00:33:22.140
i was a gold digger i might have aimed higher

00:33:22.140 --> 00:33:27.900
that's fair yeah completely valid looking for

00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:30.700
a yacht and yeah someone who could just keep

00:33:30.700 --> 00:33:32.660
me like a princess and never have to work again

00:33:32.660 --> 00:33:34.859
you know that's what a gold digger would be going

00:33:34.859 --> 00:33:36.599
for i don't think gold diggers are generally

00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.180
pursuing someone with a nice two -bedroom terraced

00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:42.509
house and a moderately expensive lease car Yeah,

00:33:42.630 --> 00:33:45.569
at a middle management job in the public sector.

00:33:45.670 --> 00:33:50.390
Yeah, I am not. I am not a sugar daddy. I am

00:33:50.390 --> 00:33:53.210
not of that income. But yeah, I think that was

00:33:53.210 --> 00:33:54.769
my fear. There was an element of that and also

00:33:54.769 --> 00:33:58.029
an element of just a little bit of shame, I think,

00:33:58.049 --> 00:34:00.289
about the place that I'm at in my life where

00:34:00.289 --> 00:34:04.690
I have a really good job, but I essentially started

00:34:04.690 --> 00:34:07.950
my career about four years ago after a lot of

00:34:07.950 --> 00:34:10.639
this is a job that we'll do for now. And then

00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:12.340
this is a job that will do for now. And I don't

00:34:12.340 --> 00:34:14.119
really know where I'm going with my life. And

00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:16.619
even the job that I have now, I got initially

00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:20.059
as a stopgap. I just left a job that was making

00:34:20.059 --> 00:34:21.719
me really unhappy. Didn't know what I wanted

00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:24.179
to do next. And I was like, I'll just get a job

00:34:24.179 --> 00:34:25.920
in a call center for six months or so while I

00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:27.860
figure out direction and I'll go from there.

00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:29.760
And then I loved it. And then I got promoted

00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.119
and now have a really interesting job that is

00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:34.579
not anymore having to take 80 calls a day, which

00:34:34.579 --> 00:34:38.800
is great. So I met you at a time where I was

00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:40.900
really only just finding my feet with a career,

00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:43.900
not just a job. And I was really self -conscious

00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:46.579
about the fact that I had essentially thrown

00:34:46.579 --> 00:34:50.199
away my 20s, both in terms of career and financial

00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:53.300
literacy and managing debt and all of that stuff.

00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:56.119
I was like, I am a bit of a mess financially

00:34:56.119 --> 00:35:00.440
and I'm getting on top of it. But like, it was

00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:02.260
hard to talk to you about money because I was

00:35:02.260 --> 00:35:04.440
scared of you looking down on me, I guess. Yeah.

00:35:04.849 --> 00:35:06.570
Which you've never given me any reason to think

00:35:06.570 --> 00:35:08.650
that you would. But I think that's why talking

00:35:08.650 --> 00:35:10.630
about money in relationships can be so hard.

00:35:10.710 --> 00:35:14.730
Because a lot of shame does get attached to money.

00:35:14.829 --> 00:35:17.309
And a lot of connotations get attached to people

00:35:17.309 --> 00:35:18.989
when they're in a relationship where there is

00:35:18.989 --> 00:35:21.469
a gap in income. Yeah, I think you're right.

00:35:21.570 --> 00:35:25.269
And I think it kind of goes back to that thing

00:35:25.269 --> 00:35:29.030
we were talking about earlier on. It's a little

00:35:29.030 --> 00:35:32.469
bit of a taboo subject, isn't it? It's a weirdly,

00:35:32.469 --> 00:35:35.039
weirdly difficult thing to talk about. Yeah.

00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.199
Even in a committed relationship. Yeah. You know,

00:35:38.219 --> 00:35:41.400
kind of. And there might be an element of protection

00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:43.380
to some of that, self -protection to some of

00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:44.860
that as well. So not having a joint account,

00:35:44.980 --> 00:35:47.159
having your own account and kind of feeling like

00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.639
you want to pay your way. Because I do remember

00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:52.579
having the conversation about how we were going

00:35:52.579 --> 00:35:56.679
to split the bills when we moved in. And I think

00:35:56.679 --> 00:35:58.920
we were both a little bit surprised by the other

00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:00.980
one's assumption. Because I think you assumed

00:36:00.980 --> 00:36:03.800
that we would split the bills 50 -50. Yeah. And

00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:05.920
I assumed that we would split the bills according

00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:11.480
to our relative income. So not 50 -50. And I

00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:13.559
think we were both a little bit surprised by

00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:19.420
the other's suggestion. Because in my head, why

00:36:19.420 --> 00:36:21.840
on earth would you split the bill 50 -50 unless

00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:24.400
you earn the same amount of money? Yeah, and

00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.219
if I was talking about anyone but me, I would

00:36:27.219 --> 00:36:28.719
be like, no, of course that makes sense. You

00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:30.699
wouldn't split the bills 50 -50. But because...

00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:34.019
I had never been in that position before. Yeah.

00:36:34.139 --> 00:36:36.880
And because I'd been the one who brought up us

00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:38.480
moving in together, like you were really keen.

00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:41.039
It's not like I massively accelerated the process,

00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:43.480
I don't think, but I brought it up. Yeah. It

00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:46.039
just felt incredibly cheeky to be like, can I

00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:48.659
come and live in your house and eat half of your

00:36:48.659 --> 00:36:50.860
food and use probably more than half of your

00:36:50.860 --> 00:36:58.320
electricity? Yeah. And pay fuck all. Like that

00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.340
was never going to be my suggestion. I wanted

00:37:01.340 --> 00:37:07.059
to know what living here cost. And if 50 % wasn't

00:37:07.059 --> 00:37:08.719
actually doable, I would have definitely said.

00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:11.519
But if you'd said, yeah, this is what it costs

00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:13.880
and I want you to pay half of it, I would have

00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:15.980
been willing to do that. But I think what you

00:37:15.980 --> 00:37:18.239
suggested and what we obviously ultimately did

00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:20.380
is fairer. And it's what I would suggest to anyone

00:37:20.380 --> 00:37:22.480
else with a significant income gap because it

00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:25.659
makes sense. Because when we kind of balance

00:37:25.659 --> 00:37:27.880
that right, we end up with roughly probably the

00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:29.900
same amount of fund money, you know, that spare

00:37:29.900 --> 00:37:32.460
spending money until you started taking it off.

00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:36.380
And that was that was that was exactly the reason

00:37:36.380 --> 00:37:39.940
for that is it's it if you've got any kind of

00:37:39.940 --> 00:37:43.179
size gap of income, but take the same amount

00:37:43.179 --> 00:37:46.579
of money off someone to pay a bill. It's essentially

00:37:46.579 --> 00:37:49.619
a regressive tax. Yeah. Because it hits the person

00:37:49.619 --> 00:37:51.380
with the lower income harder because they then

00:37:51.380 --> 00:37:53.699
have less disposable income. And we probably,

00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.280
I don't, we're probably not a million miles apart.

00:37:56.500 --> 00:37:58.519
I probably come out of this deal still with a

00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:00.400
little bit more, a little bit more disposable

00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:02.000
income. Not a massive amount, I don't think.

00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:03.980
But that's the point is actually then we've,

00:38:03.980 --> 00:38:05.699
then when you've taken care of the stuff that

00:38:05.699 --> 00:38:08.659
you've got no choice about paying, then we can

00:38:08.659 --> 00:38:11.420
share the cost of having fun. Yeah. More equally,

00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:15.019
which we do. Yeah. And we had, I know I said

00:38:15.019 --> 00:38:17.059
I found it difficult, but I still like knew I

00:38:17.059 --> 00:38:20.130
had to like. put on my big enby pants and deal

00:38:20.130 --> 00:38:22.090
with it like we had some really important and

00:38:22.090 --> 00:38:24.250
good conversations about money yeah we did have

00:38:24.250 --> 00:38:25.809
those conversations about how we were going to

00:38:25.809 --> 00:38:28.010
split bills but we also talked to each other

00:38:28.010 --> 00:38:30.070
in a lot of depth we also talked to each other

00:38:30.070 --> 00:38:32.269
in a lot of detail about things like any debt

00:38:32.269 --> 00:38:34.969
that we had yeah sort of committed outgoings

00:38:34.969 --> 00:38:37.170
that we had yeah what i was going to do with

00:38:37.170 --> 00:38:39.590
with my flat because there's expenses attached

00:38:39.590 --> 00:38:41.510
to owning a property and i didn't want to sell

00:38:41.510 --> 00:38:43.630
it within five minutes of moving in with you

00:38:43.630 --> 00:38:46.650
yeah um so we talked about how that impacted

00:38:46.650 --> 00:38:48.750
on both of us as well as part of that conversation

00:38:48.750 --> 00:38:51.889
yeah and i think uncomfortable as it can definitely

00:38:51.889 --> 00:38:54.269
be it's really important in a relationship to

00:38:54.269 --> 00:38:56.230
be able to really transparently talk about your

00:38:56.230 --> 00:38:59.030
financial situation yeah and i think especially

00:38:59.030 --> 00:39:01.530
you know times that by 100 if you plan on starting

00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:03.869
to mess around with financial domination yeah

00:39:03.869 --> 00:39:05.909
this cannot be done if we don't have transparency

00:39:05.909 --> 00:39:09.280
about each other's finances no particularly transparency

00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:11.320
about mine because if i was in a massive hole

00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:13.579
of debt that you didn't know about yes that's

00:39:13.579 --> 00:39:15.860
not respecting your consent because you're not

00:39:15.860 --> 00:39:17.460
making an informed decision on what you're doing

00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:19.500
if you don't know the position that i'm in no

00:39:19.500 --> 00:39:23.380
no you're absolutely right um so um all i have

00:39:23.380 --> 00:39:25.059
to say about that previous conversation part

00:39:25.059 --> 00:39:27.079
of our conversation was martin lewis eat your

00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:31.679
knob off quite apart from the kinky aspect of

00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.039
stuff that we're going to talk about actually

00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:37.239
that is I think part of that, at least a little

00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:39.940
part of that conversation was driven by the dynamic

00:39:39.940 --> 00:39:42.239
that we were building. So aside from financial

00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:44.340
domination, there is a degree of financial control

00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:47.400
that I have as part of our dynamic. But actually,

00:39:47.460 --> 00:39:50.139
it's yet another example of people in any type

00:39:50.139 --> 00:39:52.320
of relationship can probably learn something

00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:56.880
from the approach that you have to take where

00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:59.119
there is any kind of financial control involved

00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:01.099
and that level of transparency and that level

00:40:01.099 --> 00:40:04.659
of openness about how money works in your household.

00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:07.519
and in your relationship is necessary for the

00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:10.460
stuff that we do. But it's also just necessary,

00:40:10.659 --> 00:40:15.940
you know, for a happy life. Yeah. I had a really

00:40:15.940 --> 00:40:17.739
funny moment the other day and it just shows

00:40:17.739 --> 00:40:20.019
how some couples must operate very differently

00:40:20.019 --> 00:40:23.880
from us. I went to get my lip filler and my Botox

00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:27.860
topped up. Yes. And I am very regular at the

00:40:27.860 --> 00:40:30.780
person that I go to and I've been going to him

00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:33.159
for various little tweaks for years on and off.

00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:37.840
And he agreed to do my Botox for free at my last

00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:39.320
appointment, which is very nice of him, very

00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:42.639
generous. Incredibly generous. But he knows that

00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:45.139
we split the cost of any improvements to my face.

00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:47.079
And as I was leaving the appointment, he was

00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:48.699
like, tell your partner it was full price and

00:40:48.699 --> 00:40:54.039
then you make a profit. And obviously I did not

00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:57.139
do that. No. But I can imagine there probably

00:40:57.139 --> 00:40:59.699
would be some people who would. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:05.179
And probably without prompting. Yeah. Fair play

00:41:05.179 --> 00:41:08.980
to them, I guess. But yeah, it is kind of a weird

00:41:08.980 --> 00:41:12.380
way to approach it. Yeah. I can't imagine having

00:41:12.380 --> 00:41:15.300
a relationship where... where i felt the need

00:41:15.300 --> 00:41:17.840
to sort of hide my financial situation or try

00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:19.780
to get one over on my partner financially i think

00:41:19.780 --> 00:41:21.440
even if there's no other problems in the relationship

00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:23.380
you're weakening your foundations doing that

00:41:23.380 --> 00:41:25.760
and even in completely vanilla relationships

00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:28.980
i've had in the past i've always i've liked honesty

00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:31.980
around money obviously control wasn't an element

00:41:31.980 --> 00:41:34.639
of that but yeah saying like this is how much

00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:36.219
money i've got left i'm a little bit skinned

00:41:36.219 --> 00:41:37.960
or actually i've got loads of spare money this

00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:39.780
month do you want to do something nice and i'll

00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:42.619
pay yeah not sort of squirreling it away and

00:41:42.619 --> 00:41:44.860
hiding what you have and being cagey with each

00:41:44.860 --> 00:41:48.179
other i don't think that's healthy no no no i

00:41:48.179 --> 00:41:50.019
don't either i think that's a little bit strange

00:41:50.019 --> 00:41:53.300
um but about three days ago you asked me about

00:41:53.300 --> 00:41:56.420
my perspective on the ethics of it and i think

00:41:56.420 --> 00:42:01.820
that was what i was very aware of was um we have

00:42:01.820 --> 00:42:05.639
a fairly significant gap in income um currently

00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:08.420
yeah you will in short order be very important

00:42:08.420 --> 00:42:10.840
in financial services in which case the situation

00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:15.320
will flip and that's fine with me um but i was

00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:19.599
really aware of that and and was i think probably

00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:22.199
more worried than i needed to be about what that

00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:24.920
might do to our relationship as well as kind

00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:26.860
of like i said earlier on the perception of others

00:42:26.860 --> 00:42:30.380
yeah um because we're really open with the people

00:42:30.380 --> 00:42:32.960
around us, like in the community about what we

00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:38.699
do. So I think I was probably as worried about

00:42:38.699 --> 00:42:41.960
that as I was about actually ethically, am I

00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:44.019
okay taking money off someone who earns less

00:42:44.019 --> 00:42:46.480
than me? Yeah. You know, just on a really pragmatic

00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:50.199
basis. Like, how do you, how do I swear that

00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:55.320
in my head and be okay with it? And I think,

00:42:55.420 --> 00:43:00.070
I think the way that I, came to be okay with

00:43:00.070 --> 00:43:03.929
it was to be very very clear and very specific

00:43:03.929 --> 00:43:09.289
and and quite protective of how we did it um

00:43:09.289 --> 00:43:12.909
so the way that because because there's no getting

00:43:12.909 --> 00:43:14.889
away from the fact that the idea of it was really

00:43:14.889 --> 00:43:18.650
hot it was really exciting just another way of

00:43:18.650 --> 00:43:21.530
exerting power over you really leaning into that

00:43:21.530 --> 00:43:24.960
property sort of angle to our dynamic you are

00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.019
an object for my use and pleasure and then layering

00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:31.400
money on top of that which just feels really

00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:36.400
impersonal yeah and and because it is transactional

00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:39.099
yeah you know and you think about some of the

00:43:39.099 --> 00:43:41.360
words that people use to describe fin subs they

00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:44.400
talk to them talk and i use them about you as

00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:48.300
well they you know words like pay pig or piggy

00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:52.039
or wallet or um i think i've called you a walking

00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:56.119
cash machine yeah you know stuff like that just

00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:59.099
really quite cruel degradation if you think about

00:43:59.099 --> 00:44:02.139
it was really really exciting yeah and i love

00:44:02.139 --> 00:44:04.880
any form of objectification so that takes a lot

00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.260
of boxes for me yeah but i was really conscious

00:44:07.260 --> 00:44:10.420
that i didn't want the frenzy of that to overpower

00:44:10.420 --> 00:44:14.099
the ethics of it yeah and you're so good at that

00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:17.360
this is often how new kinks go for us is one

00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:20.420
or both of us comes up with a new idea And I'm

00:44:20.420 --> 00:44:23.519
like, yeah, let's do a seven day interrogation.

00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:28.619
Yeah. Let's let's like do the most unhinged violence

00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:30.440
we can think of. And you're like, OK, so the

00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:34.260
safer and easier and less intense version of

00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:36.519
that is where we're going to start. And then

00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:38.139
I hootle and fuss and I eventually agree with.

00:44:41.179 --> 00:44:43.320
And not because I wear you down, but because

00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:45.099
I think you recognize that I'm usually right.

00:44:45.260 --> 00:44:50.260
Yeah. To be fair. Yeah. And also, even if I could

00:44:50.260 --> 00:44:52.760
handle the insane version that I've come up with

00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:56.199
in my head, it's also in any kind of kink. I

00:44:56.199 --> 00:44:57.920
think it's important that you go at the pace

00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:00.139
and play to the level of the person who wants

00:45:00.139 --> 00:45:02.860
to go the slowest and lowest. Yeah. It's always

00:45:02.860 --> 00:45:05.559
better for the person who wants to go more extreme

00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:08.199
to compromise and settle for a softer version

00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:10.420
than to push someone out of their comfort zone

00:45:10.420 --> 00:45:12.840
and potentially be on their limits. Yeah. Like

00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:15.360
ultimately, even if it's not about being right

00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:17.869
or wrong, it's if what you want. is a softer

00:45:17.869 --> 00:45:20.849
version of something there is no ethical way

00:45:20.849 --> 00:45:23.150
of me getting you to bump it up a level apart

00:45:23.150 --> 00:45:24.849
from waiting patiently and seeing if you get

00:45:24.849 --> 00:45:27.929
there yourself yeah and you generally do that's

00:45:27.929 --> 00:45:29.550
because i start off a little bit anxious and

00:45:29.550 --> 00:45:33.110
i'm like oh yeah no actually yeah which is kind

00:45:33.110 --> 00:45:35.289
of how this went for us didn't it um finned on

00:45:35.289 --> 00:45:41.329
yes has gone for us so um i think the first thing

00:45:41.329 --> 00:45:44.489
we did was we we'd already had a really clear

00:45:44.489 --> 00:45:47.619
agreement about how we pay for stuff um so we

00:45:47.619 --> 00:45:51.300
split the bills according to our income and the

00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:54.920
cost of anything else is usually shared 50 50

00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:57.059
more or less it seems like we take it in turns

00:45:57.059 --> 00:45:58.760
getting a takeaway or paying when we go out for

00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:01.900
meals yeah but we we share the load relatively

00:46:01.900 --> 00:46:03.619
equally of everything that's not a household

00:46:03.619 --> 00:46:06.440
bill yeah um but we actually wrote that into

00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:08.800
our rules in the section about financial domination

00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:10.639
just so that we were really really clear about

00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:15.190
that um And included in that is all of the bimbo

00:46:15.190 --> 00:46:17.530
related expenses, which we agreed to share. Yeah.

00:46:19.469 --> 00:46:22.150
Which again, wildly, I think you were willing

00:46:22.150 --> 00:46:24.550
to pay for. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I'm going

00:46:24.550 --> 00:46:26.409
to look really cute. And you were like, if I'm

00:46:26.409 --> 00:46:29.030
making you suddenly buy makeup, buy hairstyling

00:46:29.030 --> 00:46:32.510
stuff, buy a whole new wardrobe, get filler,

00:46:32.690 --> 00:46:35.250
get Botox, potentially get plastic surgery. This

00:46:35.250 --> 00:46:38.989
was before I insisted on plastic surgery. You

00:46:38.989 --> 00:46:40.989
were like, yeah, obviously I'm going to pay a

00:46:40.989 --> 00:46:44.010
share of that. And I think probably if I'd held

00:46:44.010 --> 00:46:46.630
out, you would have paid more as well. Yeah,

00:46:46.670 --> 00:46:50.289
probably. Yeah. Well, because I saw that as like

00:46:50.289 --> 00:46:52.730
any other kink expense. Yeah. Like if we buy,

00:46:52.849 --> 00:46:55.929
I don't think it's worked out. It probably hasn't

00:46:55.929 --> 00:46:58.489
worked out 50 -50. But if we go to the DVB in

00:46:58.489 --> 00:47:01.010
Birmingham and we buy kink equipment, we generally

00:47:01.010 --> 00:47:03.809
share that cost. Yeah. It's the same with bimbo

00:47:03.809 --> 00:47:06.210
stuff. So we wrote that down just so that we

00:47:06.210 --> 00:47:12.510
were really, really clear. And I proposed, I

00:47:12.510 --> 00:47:14.909
think, quite a detailed set of rules on how it

00:47:14.909 --> 00:47:19.630
would work. Yeah. Which was more for my comfort,

00:47:19.750 --> 00:47:24.010
I think, than for yours. So we agreed that you

00:47:24.010 --> 00:47:27.710
would set a budget every payday. Included as

00:47:27.710 --> 00:47:29.690
part of that budget would be an amount for us

00:47:29.690 --> 00:47:34.230
to play with in Findom. The original version

00:47:34.230 --> 00:47:37.429
of our rules were that you could set a zero budget,

00:47:37.530 --> 00:47:40.630
so you weren't required to do it every month.

00:47:40.889 --> 00:47:43.170
Yep. What else was there? So the original set

00:47:43.170 --> 00:47:47.889
also included, Mix, that I could increase the

00:47:47.889 --> 00:47:50.829
budget over the course of the month, but I couldn't

00:47:50.829 --> 00:47:52.909
reduce it. So once I committed to that money

00:47:52.909 --> 00:47:55.989
on payday, that was what was there. But that

00:47:55.989 --> 00:47:59.190
if I had an unexpected emergency of some kind...

00:47:59.449 --> 00:48:02.250
during the the pay period i could request the

00:48:02.250 --> 00:48:05.170
money back at any time um i couldn't do it just

00:48:05.170 --> 00:48:07.969
because i budgeted badly and wanted to buy a

00:48:07.969 --> 00:48:10.550
takeaway yeah but if there was an unexpected

00:48:10.550 --> 00:48:13.949
vet bill or something else that i had to deal

00:48:13.949 --> 00:48:16.010
with that was my responsibility to pay for i

00:48:16.010 --> 00:48:19.030
could request it back yeah and this wasn't a

00:48:19.030 --> 00:48:21.050
rule but this was something that we both agreed

00:48:21.050 --> 00:48:23.769
verbally that this would be the approach we take

00:48:23.769 --> 00:48:27.309
we we started with pretty low budgets yeah so

00:48:27.309 --> 00:48:29.760
i didn't immediately commit the maximum amount

00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:31.619
of money i could afford to play with i think

00:48:31.619 --> 00:48:34.239
the first month we did it was maybe 30 or 40

00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:37.320
pounds something that we played with and again

00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.139
this sort of circles back to what we talked about

00:48:39.139 --> 00:48:40.760
earlier about this kind of play being a privilege

00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:43.480
for me that is a pretty low amount of money that

00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:45.019
is the kind of thing i would spend impulsively

00:48:45.019 --> 00:48:47.699
on getting us takeaway pizza for some people

00:48:47.699 --> 00:48:50.039
that might be all the spare money they have in

00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:51.739
the world and then that wouldn't be a token amount

00:48:51.739 --> 00:48:54.739
the token amount for them might be 50p yeah and

00:48:54.739 --> 00:48:57.079
for some people a token amount might be 100 grand

00:48:57.079 --> 00:48:59.550
and i'm sure they have some very fun times with

00:48:59.550 --> 00:49:03.409
findom yeah um but proportionate to what i had

00:49:03.409 --> 00:49:06.329
in terms of income savings and and financial

00:49:06.329 --> 00:49:08.869
commitments at the time that felt like a small

00:49:08.869 --> 00:49:10.530
enough amount of money that i wouldn't actually

00:49:10.530 --> 00:49:12.409
miss it if it turned out not to be our thing

00:49:12.409 --> 00:49:16.489
yeah yeah as an experiment yeah to to try it

00:49:16.489 --> 00:49:19.409
out and on the other side of that um the way

00:49:19.409 --> 00:49:21.510
that because of the bank account that i've got

00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.420
I was able to say every time I demanded money

00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:26.219
from you. So that was part of the rules as well.

00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:31.559
Part of what we agreed was that I would demand

00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:35.159
the money from you with a screenshot and then

00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:39.179
you would cover the cost in there. But then what

00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:41.199
I would do when you made that payment was put

00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:44.000
that into a separate pot in my bank account so

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.679
I knew that money was there on the off chance

00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:52.320
that you needed it. Yes. You know? i don't think

00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:53.739
it would because of the amounts we were talking

00:49:53.739 --> 00:49:54.940
about i don't think it would have been material

00:49:54.940 --> 00:49:59.139
if i didn't do that but i felt like it was necessary

00:49:59.139 --> 00:50:00.940
to kind of keep that money separate to go well

00:50:00.940 --> 00:50:03.599
that's not really mine yet yeah because something

00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:05.360
might happen and they might want it back yeah

00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:09.400
um and we got some advice didn't we mix about

00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:12.860
sort of the storage of money and the transferring

00:50:12.860 --> 00:50:14.980
of money from a friend of ours who's a qualified

00:50:14.980 --> 00:50:17.300
mortgage advisor to make sure that we weren't

00:50:17.300 --> 00:50:18.659
going to be doing anything that would look really

00:50:18.659 --> 00:50:21.929
sketchy Yes, we did. And she was not concerned,

00:50:22.110 --> 00:50:24.369
was the short answer. Basically, don't put stupid

00:50:24.369 --> 00:50:27.869
stuff in the references when sending money. So

00:50:27.869 --> 00:50:31.690
if I sent you money with the reference, like,

00:50:31.769 --> 00:50:35.289
please step on me, mix. Bank might not like that.

00:50:35.349 --> 00:50:36.909
Mortgage advisor definitely won't like that.

00:50:37.309 --> 00:50:39.789
So I think that was the first set of rules, the

00:50:39.789 --> 00:50:41.449
original set of rules, wasn't it? And we just

00:50:41.449 --> 00:50:44.650
wanted to try it out and see how it went. Yeah.

00:50:46.429 --> 00:50:48.570
And like you say, with it being a relatively

00:50:48.570 --> 00:50:51.210
low amount of money that we were playing with,

00:50:51.309 --> 00:50:53.349
it was relatively low amounts of money that I

00:50:53.349 --> 00:50:57.690
took off you. So it was like coffee and Greg's

00:50:57.690 --> 00:50:59.769
lunch. I don't think that was just purely because

00:50:59.769 --> 00:51:01.630
it was a relatively low amount of money. I think

00:51:01.630 --> 00:51:03.710
there was something about kind of wanting to

00:51:03.710 --> 00:51:06.670
be able to do it on a regular enough basis that

00:51:06.670 --> 00:51:10.210
we would think about it. Yeah. You know, because

00:51:10.210 --> 00:51:12.489
there's no point if on your payday you set a

00:51:12.489 --> 00:51:16.349
budget of 40 quid and then the next day. I'll

00:51:16.349 --> 00:51:18.730
buy a Lego set for 40 quid and tell you to pay

00:51:18.730 --> 00:51:20.929
for it because the month is done then. Yeah,

00:51:20.929 --> 00:51:22.889
then unless I end up having some spare money

00:51:22.889 --> 00:51:24.949
and topping it up, you can't do it again until

00:51:24.949 --> 00:51:27.369
I next get paid, which is not ideal. Yeah, yeah.

00:51:27.510 --> 00:51:30.409
So remembering that the word trivial is a relative

00:51:30.409 --> 00:51:34.070
term, fairly trivial amounts of money that we

00:51:34.070 --> 00:51:36.570
were transacting as well. Yeah. You know, that

00:51:36.570 --> 00:51:38.670
you were sending me. It was like £4 for a coffee.

00:51:38.889 --> 00:51:41.389
Yeah. Although £4 for a coffee is ridiculous.

00:51:41.570 --> 00:51:44.329
Is ridiculous, yeah. This is why I take... a

00:51:44.329 --> 00:51:46.170
coffee with me if i'm going out the house with

00:51:46.170 --> 00:51:48.929
a coffee yeah yeah i make an instant coffee in

00:51:48.929 --> 00:51:50.949
a coffee cup and i take it with me yeah yeah

00:51:50.949 --> 00:51:54.690
yeah no i can see the income difference in it

00:51:54.690 --> 00:51:57.389
yeah i have reached the reached the level of

00:51:57.389 --> 00:51:59.530
income and middle classness that no actually

00:51:59.530 --> 00:52:03.570
i'm quite happy it's like that's a special treat

00:52:03.570 --> 00:52:06.429
if i'm on like a a day out i will buy a coffee

00:52:06.429 --> 00:52:08.570
in a coffee shop yeah but if i'm just going into

00:52:08.570 --> 00:52:12.050
the office absolutely not yeah yeah that's true

00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:13.980
Plus, there's nowhere good for coffee near where

00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:16.380
my office is, so I would have to spend probably

00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:19.559
£4 on a shit coffee. I'm definitely not prepared

00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:23.059
to do that. No, that's fair. Yeah, the coffee

00:52:23.059 --> 00:52:28.300
shop I buy from would not be my choice. But it's

00:52:28.300 --> 00:52:33.099
just chains around where I work. The other thing

00:52:33.099 --> 00:52:35.460
that I do, and it was a friend on FetLife who

00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:39.019
pointed this out, my bank account does roundups,

00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:43.900
so if I spend 75p, It will round it up to a pound

00:52:43.900 --> 00:52:47.380
and it will put the 25p in a little pot for me.

00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:51.260
I make you cover the rounded up amount and not

00:52:51.260 --> 00:52:57.559
the actual amount. So if it's £3 .85 for a medium

00:52:57.559 --> 00:53:01.440
chai latte from Costa, so you pay £4 because

00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:04.239
that's how much it costs me. I remember a pal

00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:06.480
on FetLife pointed that out and it was just that

00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:11.750
extra little bit of... humiliation to it to make

00:53:11.750 --> 00:53:15.010
you pay the round up as well yeah I really like

00:53:15.010 --> 00:53:16.690
that as well I'd spotted it as well I think it

00:53:16.690 --> 00:53:18.590
was the first time you'd done it and you posted

00:53:18.590 --> 00:53:21.429
a screenshot on FetLife and I'd noticed it and

00:53:21.429 --> 00:53:22.849
I hadn't said anything I was just like oh yeah

00:53:22.849 --> 00:53:24.690
that's hot I'm paying the round up as well and

00:53:24.690 --> 00:53:26.750
then that person commented on Fet as well and

00:53:26.750 --> 00:53:30.670
was like yeah it's great it's all good fun but

00:53:30.670 --> 00:53:32.769
a lot of that structure that we put behind it

00:53:32.769 --> 00:53:35.610
around kind of no minimum budget you can ask

00:53:35.610 --> 00:53:37.469
for it back if you really need it but not for

00:53:37.469 --> 00:53:40.929
poor financial choices i think almost all of

00:53:40.929 --> 00:53:44.769
that was about my my comfort level with it that

00:53:44.769 --> 00:53:47.349
balance of yeah this is a really hot idea and

00:53:47.349 --> 00:53:49.769
i want to explore it but i am struggling a little

00:53:49.769 --> 00:53:51.690
bit with the ethics of it and whether i should

00:53:51.690 --> 00:53:54.190
given the difference in our financial situation

00:53:54.190 --> 00:53:58.849
yeah no i would agree because i was if if you

00:53:58.849 --> 00:54:00.829
hadn't had any concerns i would have wanted to

00:54:00.829 --> 00:54:02.730
start with a pretty low budget to see how it

00:54:02.730 --> 00:54:06.150
felt yeah um and just to see kind of how manageable

00:54:06.150 --> 00:54:10.789
it was for me and I would have wanted to at least

00:54:10.789 --> 00:54:12.590
have a conversation about what would happen if

00:54:12.590 --> 00:54:14.150
I got into some kind of financial difficulty.

00:54:14.710 --> 00:54:16.469
I don't think I necessarily would have needed

00:54:16.469 --> 00:54:18.130
it to be in the rules that I could ask for the

00:54:18.130 --> 00:54:20.250
money returned, because as we've talked about,

00:54:20.329 --> 00:54:22.389
as we've sort of negotiated this, as we've moved

00:54:22.389 --> 00:54:26.489
on, our contract covers that you are responsible

00:54:26.489 --> 00:54:29.639
for my well -being. You are able to cause me

00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:31.940
suffering and distress, but the aim is never

00:54:31.940 --> 00:54:36.119
to cause me damage or harm. And so I think that

00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:39.519
really covers, not in a very sort of prescriptive,

00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:42.000
this is what must happen if I have an unexpected

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:45.119
bill, but covers a responsibility for you to

00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:46.940
think about what the right thing to do in that

00:54:46.940 --> 00:54:49.239
situation is if you've taken two, three hundred

00:54:49.239 --> 00:54:52.539
pound off me. And I'm sitting there going, I

00:54:52.539 --> 00:54:55.539
cannot afford to take the cats to the vet. First

00:54:55.539 --> 00:54:58.230
off. you also help out with with cat vet expenses

00:54:58.230 --> 00:55:00.210
because they are your children now as well yes

00:55:00.210 --> 00:55:03.250
you're a very good step cat parent um but also

00:55:03.250 --> 00:55:05.090
like you're not gonna just sit back and watch

00:55:05.090 --> 00:55:06.969
me have a miserable time and stress about money

00:55:06.969 --> 00:55:09.670
yeah like regardless of how much of my money

00:55:09.670 --> 00:55:11.989
is in your account and how much is your money

00:55:11.989 --> 00:55:14.250
in your account you would want to help so yeah

00:55:14.250 --> 00:55:16.449
there is that element of just what we do as a

00:55:16.449 --> 00:55:18.250
couple and also what your responsibilities are

00:55:18.250 --> 00:55:21.230
as a dominant that i felt provided enough of

00:55:21.230 --> 00:55:24.090
a safety framework there yeah that i wouldn't

00:55:24.090 --> 00:55:26.880
have necessarily needed as many sort of built

00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.039
in black and white ways of dealing with that

00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:31.000
in the rules but i was completely comfortable

00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:33.280
with having those because that makes it more

00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:35.000
comfortable for both of us and safer for both

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:38.380
of us which is a good thing yeah i think so and

00:55:38.380 --> 00:55:40.119
i think that's how that's developed over time

00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:42.539
isn't it so we're on to our second set of rules

00:55:42.539 --> 00:55:45.119
now second like at least if we're counting major

00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:46.860
overhauls makes there might be the odd wording

00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:49.619
wording tweak here and there yeah yeah in that

00:55:49.619 --> 00:55:51.659
way that i like to whenever i look at the rules

00:55:51.659 --> 00:55:53.880
i like to tweak the wording slightly yeah for

00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:56.619
extra clarity Yes, for the avoidance of doubt.

00:55:56.719 --> 00:55:58.440
For the avoidance of doubt and at my absolute

00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:03.599
discretion. And you can tell I work in contracts.

00:56:05.900 --> 00:56:08.260
So our current set of rules, I think some of

00:56:08.260 --> 00:56:11.280
the basic elements are still there, but there

00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:13.800
is a minimum budget now because we've established

00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:16.820
that that minimum that we were setting, the budget

00:56:16.820 --> 00:56:20.619
that you were setting to begin with, was completely

00:56:20.619 --> 00:56:22.869
comfortable for you. Yeah. You can still add

00:56:22.869 --> 00:56:25.250
to it if during the month and you usually do.

00:56:25.409 --> 00:56:31.989
Yeah. But you can't reduce it. And you can't

00:56:31.989 --> 00:56:34.769
ask for it back. Yeah. We've taken that out of

00:56:34.769 --> 00:56:36.969
it for exactly the reason that you said is actually

00:56:36.969 --> 00:56:40.630
if there is a financial emergency in the household,

00:56:40.809 --> 00:56:44.789
we will deal with it as a household. Yeah. And

00:56:44.789 --> 00:56:47.469
even if it was something that is entirely my

00:56:47.469 --> 00:56:49.760
problem. because of who you are as a person,

00:56:49.900 --> 00:56:51.699
I can't imagine you're just going to go, well,

00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:53.599
that's not my fucking problem, is it? Yeah, yeah.

00:56:53.780 --> 00:56:56.219
A massive bill in relation to your flat. Yeah.

00:56:56.260 --> 00:56:57.880
Would be a good example of the kind of thing

00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:01.119
where I wouldn't kind of sit back and go, it's

00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:05.199
not my fucking flat, is it? You know? I might

00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:07.800
have some words to say if the massive bill was

00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:09.860
caused by the current occupiers of that flat.

00:57:10.360 --> 00:57:13.280
Yeah, if Hope and Ash fuck it up, then. They

00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:15.219
can pay for it. I will have some opinions about

00:57:15.219 --> 00:57:19.119
that. And we can say this because they don't

00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:20.699
listen to the podcast. They haven't even listened

00:57:20.699 --> 00:57:26.460
to their own episode. No, they haven't. So we've

00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:29.159
turned the screw a little bit on that set of

00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:32.420
rules, which feels really good. Yeah, feels good

00:57:32.420 --> 00:57:34.539
to me, mate. And the amounts have increased.

00:57:35.099 --> 00:57:37.300
Yeah, which has been entirely down to me, that

00:57:37.300 --> 00:57:39.860
side of it. We agreed a minimum, but the minimum

00:57:39.860 --> 00:57:42.199
was round about what my first month had been

00:57:42.199 --> 00:57:46.639
anyway. It's been me that has continued to sort

00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:48.619
of gradually and I think quite sensibly upped

00:57:48.619 --> 00:57:51.719
it. There's definitely been times where I looked

00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:53.760
at my account at the end of the month when I

00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:56.019
got paid and thought, I could put a lot into

00:57:56.019 --> 00:57:57.860
the Fyndon budget right now. And then I have

00:57:57.860 --> 00:58:01.199
thought, let's put some in savings. maybe half

00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:03.179
of what i've got spare into savings and half

00:58:03.179 --> 00:58:05.760
into the find on budget um because what this

00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:08.739
has actually done weirdly has put me in the best

00:58:08.739 --> 00:58:11.239
financial position i've ever been in i've currently

00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:15.400
got like better credit more in savings um up

00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:18.059
until about a month ago i had my my credit card

00:58:18.059 --> 00:58:20.159
fully cleared but i have now put some holiday

00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:22.219
stuff on it and some stuff for your birthday

00:58:22.219 --> 00:58:24.380
on it but like i got to a point where my credit

00:58:24.380 --> 00:58:25.780
card was fully paid off which it hadn't been

00:58:25.780 --> 00:58:28.960
for a very long time um because what this has

00:58:28.960 --> 00:58:32.360
done is instead of seeing money as okay this

00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:34.500
is here to spend i'm gonna do whatever whatever

00:58:34.500 --> 00:58:37.199
i want within reason with it yeah it's now like

00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.199
if i plan things well and i take care of my finances

00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:43.280
we have more to play with and it's more fun yeah

00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:45.320
so it's been a good motivator for me to build

00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:48.440
up some savings and to make sure that i'm paying

00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:50.559
off more than the minimum that I have to on my

00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:52.639
credit card and things like that. Yeah. Because

00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:54.760
that puts me in a position then when payday rolls

00:58:54.760 --> 00:58:57.000
around where I go, actually, yeah, I can put

00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:59.360
the budget at £200 this month. Yeah. And we can

00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:01.719
do some fucked up stuff with that. And that hasn't

00:59:01.719 --> 00:59:04.860
changed, is it? Other than the minimum, the amount

00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:06.400
that goes into the budget is entirely driven

00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:09.699
by you. I don't, I might degrade you for it not

00:59:09.699 --> 00:59:12.599
being high enough. Yeah. But that is just me

00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:15.340
being a pervert and not me. setting an expectation

00:59:15.340 --> 00:59:18.260
yeah and that is not in any way a deterrent from

00:59:18.260 --> 00:59:20.179
me setting it low if anything it might encourage

00:59:20.179 --> 00:59:23.139
me to always love a bit of bonus degradation

00:59:23.139 --> 00:59:25.960
yeah yeah that's things this is such a win -win

00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:28.099
for me because if there's plenty of money in

00:59:28.099 --> 00:59:30.079
the budget then you'll take it off me more frequently

00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:31.960
and in larger amounts and that's always really

00:59:31.960 --> 00:59:33.800
hot but if there's not a lot of money in the

00:59:33.800 --> 00:59:36.409
budget Then you degrade me for it. There's been

00:59:36.409 --> 00:59:38.349
a couple of months where I don't think because

00:59:38.349 --> 00:59:41.190
the amount was too low. I think because you have

00:59:41.190 --> 00:59:43.610
poor self -control and took so much money off

00:59:43.610 --> 00:59:45.010
me early in the month that you had nothing left

00:59:45.010 --> 00:59:47.070
to play with. And then would spend the last week

00:59:47.070 --> 00:59:49.010
or so of the month degrading me for being a useless

00:59:49.010 --> 00:59:50.730
wallet that couldn't afford to buy you things.

00:59:50.909 --> 00:59:54.329
Yeah. That was fun. Yes. Yeah. I think one of

00:59:54.329 --> 00:59:57.989
my favorite examples of that was I think I'd

00:59:57.989 --> 01:00:00.510
gone to buy a meal deal. And because I get the

01:00:00.510 --> 01:00:04.769
meal deal and then I get an extra snack. And

01:00:04.769 --> 01:00:09.110
then I get a bag. It's like £5 something to get

01:00:09.110 --> 01:00:13.449
lunch. So my bank account rounds up to £6. And

01:00:13.449 --> 01:00:16.909
I think there was only £4 left in the budget.

01:00:18.469 --> 01:00:21.610
So I sent you the message, but I said something

01:00:21.610 --> 01:00:26.389
like, you're too useless and skint to cover the

01:00:26.389 --> 01:00:28.329
full cost of this, so you can empty the budget

01:00:28.329 --> 01:00:32.690
for it. And made you send £4 for a £6 meal deal.

01:00:34.130 --> 01:00:43.110
Yeah. Which was great fun. It was. So we renegotiated

01:00:43.110 --> 01:00:46.650
those rules and we relaxed some of the safety

01:00:46.650 --> 01:00:49.389
features and that allowed us to be a little bit

01:00:49.389 --> 01:00:55.289
freer with it. and then you escalated as i tend

01:00:55.289 --> 01:00:58.190
to do yes as you tend to do very just hit me

01:00:58.190 --> 01:01:01.010
with your car style submission once again shove

01:01:01.010 --> 01:01:05.769
hogweed up my butt yes sort of style yes mix

01:01:05.769 --> 01:01:08.050
tell us what you did tell us what you proposed

01:01:08.050 --> 01:01:11.849
uh what i proposed was that as well as the current

01:01:11.849 --> 01:01:13.889
games we were playing with money every month

01:01:13.889 --> 01:01:17.530
that we should also include a rule that our holiday

01:01:17.530 --> 01:01:20.590
that we go on every year somewhere hot should

01:01:20.590 --> 01:01:23.469
be entirely my responsibility to pay for yes

01:01:23.469 --> 01:01:26.349
and your initial reaction was jesus christ no

01:01:26.349 --> 01:01:30.530
it was but i was gonna say it was horny but horrified

01:01:30.530 --> 01:01:35.530
yes was it you were like that's awful why am

01:01:35.530 --> 01:01:44.250
i hard that is a beautiful way of putting it

01:01:44.250 --> 01:01:46.510
and a very accurate representation of what happened

01:01:46.510 --> 01:01:51.449
yeah And I think that I wouldn't say that it

01:01:51.449 --> 01:01:54.389
sent me into a spiral, but I had a lot of thoughts

01:01:54.389 --> 01:01:58.030
about it. Yeah. Partly, is that actually affordable?

01:01:58.369 --> 01:02:03.889
It's a hot idea, but is it actually doable? Because

01:02:03.889 --> 01:02:05.789
we don't go on massively expensive holidays.

01:02:06.409 --> 01:02:09.469
In the scheme of how much holidays can cost,

01:02:09.670 --> 01:02:13.590
it's not a massively expensive holiday, but it's

01:02:13.590 --> 01:02:16.969
not a cheap one either. no you know it's a chunk

01:02:16.969 --> 01:02:18.849
of change so i was a little bit worried about

01:02:18.849 --> 01:02:22.869
actually is it sustainable whilst managing your

01:02:22.869 --> 01:02:25.530
life and retaining what we were already doing

01:02:25.530 --> 01:02:29.670
about with with findom um but there was also

01:02:29.670 --> 01:02:34.010
again that ethical thing of that really should

01:02:34.010 --> 01:02:37.789
be the other way around you know if it's going

01:02:37.789 --> 01:02:40.730
to be all on one person it shouldn't be you until

01:02:40.730 --> 01:02:43.130
you have a really important job yeah in which

01:02:43.130 --> 01:02:46.909
case it can be you And that was exactly why it

01:02:46.909 --> 01:02:48.769
was hot to me, because it is the opposite way

01:02:48.769 --> 01:02:51.269
around from what people would expect for our

01:02:51.269 --> 01:02:54.630
earnings. And because I will feel it a lot more

01:02:54.630 --> 01:02:57.949
than you would. Even the holidays we've been

01:02:57.949 --> 01:03:00.590
on up until this point, we've split sort of 50

01:03:00.590 --> 01:03:05.369
-50. And you don't necessarily, from what I can

01:03:05.369 --> 01:03:06.750
tell from how you talk about your money anyway,

01:03:06.829 --> 01:03:09.230
don't really feel the pinch from making the payments

01:03:09.230 --> 01:03:12.590
to pay it off. Where I sometimes there's been

01:03:12.590 --> 01:03:14.250
times where I was like, hey, can I pay you the

01:03:14.250 --> 01:03:16.030
money I owe you for my share of the holiday next

01:03:16.030 --> 01:03:17.389
month? Because I don't have it this month and

01:03:17.389 --> 01:03:19.869
things like that. So, yeah. But my financial

01:03:19.869 --> 01:03:22.050
position has changed a little bit over the last

01:03:22.050 --> 01:03:25.210
few months, which helps. And also, if I know

01:03:25.210 --> 01:03:27.690
that that's the plan in advance. Yeah. I'm planning

01:03:27.690 --> 01:03:29.289
to pay for a whole holiday instead of planning

01:03:29.289 --> 01:03:31.670
to pay for a half a holiday. Yeah. Which always

01:03:31.670 --> 01:03:34.230
makes it easier to manage. Yeah. You know, it's

01:03:34.230 --> 01:03:37.510
yeah, you know, it's coming. But we talked about

01:03:37.510 --> 01:03:39.309
that quite a lot, didn't we? We kind of talked

01:03:39.309 --> 01:03:42.519
it through. I don't think we spent a long time

01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:44.820
talking about it, but we had a proper detailed

01:03:44.820 --> 01:03:47.579
conversation. It was deep, yeah, but I was impressed

01:03:47.579 --> 01:03:51.739
at how you fought your usual urge to overthink

01:03:51.739 --> 01:03:54.539
yourself into a whole. Like, you definitely had

01:03:54.539 --> 01:03:57.019
a lot of thoughts and we talked a lot, but we

01:03:57.019 --> 01:03:58.639
resolved it in the check -in where I thought

01:03:58.639 --> 01:04:00.019
it might be one that you would think on for a

01:04:00.019 --> 01:04:01.420
month and we'd come back to at the next check

01:04:01.420 --> 01:04:03.940
-in. Yeah. I was hoping that wouldn't happen

01:04:03.940 --> 01:04:06.420
because I was keen to get it booked. Yeah, and

01:04:06.420 --> 01:04:08.400
I think that might have been part of why that

01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:10.599
happened as well. From my perspective, we're

01:04:10.599 --> 01:04:12.139
going, no, we need to get a holiday booked. So

01:04:12.139 --> 01:04:13.800
we probably need to decide whether we're going

01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:18.079
to do this or not. Because we are definitely

01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:19.900
the kind of people, aren't we, that say we should

01:04:19.900 --> 01:04:22.260
book a holiday or we should think about where

01:04:22.260 --> 01:04:24.960
we want to go on our holiday. And we both go,

01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:27.280
yeah, no, you're absolutely right. We'll do some

01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:31.000
Googling. And then a month later, we should book

01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:32.920
a holiday. We need to think about where we want

01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:37.440
to go. Yeah. Yeah, we should do that. So I didn't

01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:39.079
want it to be another reason why that drifted,

01:04:39.079 --> 01:04:40.320
because I know you like to get it booked in.

01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:42.360
We need to get holiday time booked off and stuff.

01:04:42.780 --> 01:04:45.860
Yeah. But we did agree some rules around that

01:04:45.860 --> 01:04:48.739
as well. Some guardrails. Yeah. And again, that

01:04:48.739 --> 01:04:52.199
was definitely more driven by your sort of comfort

01:04:52.199 --> 01:04:54.400
level and you needing to feel like it was ethical

01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:56.260
and balanced and safe and all that good stuff,

01:04:56.320 --> 01:04:59.789
which I appreciate. Yeah. But yeah, you. your

01:04:59.789 --> 01:05:02.690
main thing was you wanted to set a maximum budget

01:05:02.690 --> 01:05:05.510
that could be my responsibility and if the holiday

01:05:05.510 --> 01:05:07.869
came to more than that budget that anything over

01:05:07.869 --> 01:05:10.389
over the cap we would go back to splitting yeah

01:05:10.389 --> 01:05:12.889
yeah yeah i think it is slightly over though

01:05:12.889 --> 01:05:16.730
isn't it it's the hotel at the airport to fly

01:05:16.730 --> 01:05:19.230
out took us over by the cost of that hotel room

01:05:19.230 --> 01:05:21.849
mix. And because you didn't want to upset me

01:05:21.849 --> 01:05:23.590
when I was having so much fun being a good pay

01:05:23.590 --> 01:05:26.250
pig, you did relent and allow me to pay that.

01:05:26.329 --> 01:05:28.829
But I think if the actual holiday accommodation

01:05:28.829 --> 01:05:31.710
or the actual flights had taken it over, you

01:05:31.710 --> 01:05:36.630
would have said no. Yeah, yeah. So what did we

01:05:36.630 --> 01:05:39.050
include? We included the flights and the accommodation.

01:05:39.789 --> 01:05:42.489
And car hire mix. Car hire insurance. And insurance,

01:05:42.670 --> 01:05:45.920
yes, mix. And the... The airport hotel, yes.

01:05:46.280 --> 01:05:48.960
Yeah. And then when we're out there spending

01:05:48.960 --> 01:05:51.980
money, just goes back to kind of take it in turns

01:05:51.980 --> 01:05:55.099
paying for stuff. Yeah. Roughly 50 -50, as we

01:05:55.099 --> 01:05:57.599
usually do. Yeah. Because you had suggested that

01:05:57.599 --> 01:05:59.480
as well, hadn't you? I had, yes, Mix, and you

01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:02.079
did not feel cool about that. That's just taking

01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:06.019
a piss at this point. Like, really hot in theory.

01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:10.340
Maybe next year. Yeah, maybe next year. There's

01:06:10.340 --> 01:06:12.440
a really weird thing that goes on in my head.

01:06:12.980 --> 01:06:16.019
which I can't quite understand why. But it's

01:06:16.019 --> 01:06:18.460
a little bit like my office. So you are responsible

01:06:18.460 --> 01:06:20.780
for cleaning the entire house, but you do not

01:06:20.780 --> 01:06:22.659
have to clean the office. And the reason for

01:06:22.659 --> 01:06:25.039
that is that every now and again, I need to do

01:06:25.039 --> 01:06:27.840
something domestic to remind myself how to do

01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:29.900
things that are domestic in case you are ever

01:06:29.900 --> 01:06:32.139
not able to do it. Yeah. So that's why I sometimes

01:06:32.139 --> 01:06:33.679
will do the dishes when you're poorly and use

01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:36.940
the washing machine and stuff like that, even

01:06:36.940 --> 01:06:38.840
though I do the laundry wrong. You do the laundry

01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:43.360
so wrong. It is not restful for me at all. so

01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:45.639
i when we were talking about the holiday and

01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:47.019
you were kind of saying well i'll pay for everything

01:06:47.019 --> 01:06:49.739
while we're out there as well i thought no i

01:06:49.739 --> 01:06:52.920
need to there needs to be some kind of connection

01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:56.699
to me contributing to stuff to that just to remind

01:06:56.699 --> 01:07:00.039
myself that i am a mere mortal i think that is

01:07:00.039 --> 01:07:04.320
yeah following the example that you give of kind

01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:06.239
of putting myself putting me on a pedestal almost

01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:09.659
as a god i need sometimes to remind myself that

01:07:09.659 --> 01:07:12.719
i am not I think that's very healthy. And I think

01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:15.119
that was what was behind that. When we're out

01:07:15.119 --> 01:07:17.340
there, we're spending money like we normally

01:07:17.340 --> 01:07:23.639
would. Yeah. And then there is, we've said, or

01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:27.079
I've said, that because you're going to have

01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:29.000
money that you need to pay towards it every month,

01:07:29.099 --> 01:07:33.500
if any given month is a problem, then we share

01:07:33.500 --> 01:07:38.579
the cost 50 -50. Of the monthly payments. Yeah.

01:07:38.679 --> 01:07:41.219
Until it's not a problem anymore. Yeah. Does

01:07:41.219 --> 01:07:43.960
that make sense? It does, yes, Mix. So yeah,

01:07:44.059 --> 01:07:47.000
the arrangement can change at any time and that

01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:49.739
can go up to me asking you for up to 50 % of

01:07:49.739 --> 01:07:52.199
the cost. Yeah. Of the holiday. Yeah. Not necessarily

01:07:52.199 --> 01:07:54.300
as a lump sum. I mean, that would be deeply unreasonable

01:07:54.300 --> 01:07:56.360
seeing as it's on my credit card. Yeah, yeah.

01:07:57.099 --> 01:08:00.440
But yeah, I can ask you to contribute. That is

01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:03.340
one that's still within my control to take that

01:08:03.340 --> 01:08:07.190
back if it's becoming an issue. Yeah, yeah. which

01:08:07.190 --> 01:08:09.289
is distinct from the usual Fyndon budget, which

01:08:09.289 --> 01:08:12.130
is once you've sent it, it's gone. Yeah. Kind

01:08:12.130 --> 01:08:15.550
of thing. Yeah. And I think that was just because

01:08:15.550 --> 01:08:18.649
of the amount involved feels like a lot, but

01:08:18.649 --> 01:08:21.189
is a lot. Yeah. It sort of feels like a pallet.

01:08:23.189 --> 01:08:26.210
So there's that kind of safeguard that I felt

01:08:26.210 --> 01:08:28.430
like I needed. And if we do it this year and

01:08:28.430 --> 01:08:32.409
it's all good fun and we do it next year, I guess

01:08:32.409 --> 01:08:34.390
we'll probably check in about that at some point.

01:08:35.449 --> 01:08:37.510
you know that felt like a reasonable way to start

01:08:37.510 --> 01:08:41.050
it yeah as always you encouraging me to be sensible

01:08:41.050 --> 01:08:44.109
and start a little bit lower and slower is generally

01:08:44.109 --> 01:08:46.489
a good thing for me too it's essential for you

01:08:46.489 --> 01:08:48.630
and it would never even be it's never something

01:08:48.630 --> 01:08:51.609
i'm going to try to negotiate you up on but often

01:08:51.609 --> 01:08:53.569
i end up feeling like actually yeah that does

01:08:53.569 --> 01:08:55.689
give me some reassurance it does give me a little

01:08:55.689 --> 01:08:58.010
bit of extra safety in doing this new thing yeah

01:08:58.010 --> 01:09:00.260
because going back to what we're talking about

01:09:00.260 --> 01:09:03.239
way before about how findom can become generally

01:09:03.239 --> 01:09:05.460
unethical when you're horny you don't always

01:09:05.460 --> 01:09:07.380
make good decisions a lot of the new ideas for

01:09:07.380 --> 01:09:09.800
kink i have come up when i'm horny yeah and when

01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:13.060
i'm not i mean when am i not but yeah when i'm

01:09:13.060 --> 01:09:15.380
less horny yeah i might regret it if i've sort

01:09:15.380 --> 01:09:16.979
of boxed myself into something that is quite

01:09:16.979 --> 01:09:19.800
hard to manage because i think your sensible

01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:22.460
nature and your occasionally overthinking nature

01:09:22.460 --> 01:09:26.119
is very good for me yeah Because I do not overthink.

01:09:26.159 --> 01:09:31.180
I rarely think at all. And that might change

01:09:31.180 --> 01:09:34.239
over time. We'll see how it feels after the holiday.

01:09:34.520 --> 01:09:37.880
Yeah. It is quite hot that you put it on your

01:09:37.880 --> 01:09:40.039
credit card though. Yes. You got yourself into

01:09:40.039 --> 01:09:42.460
credit card debt for me. Like a good little pay

01:09:42.460 --> 01:09:44.560
pick. Entirely manageable short -term credit

01:09:44.560 --> 01:09:46.880
card debt. Yes. That I'm paying in installments

01:09:46.880 --> 01:09:48.460
and will probably clear within three months.

01:09:48.619 --> 01:09:53.810
But yes. But still. But still. Quite hot. yeah

01:09:53.810 --> 01:09:58.789
um so i wanted to talk about some of my favorite

01:09:58.789 --> 01:10:00.770
moments since we've started exploring financial

01:10:00.770 --> 01:10:03.609
domination yeah um but i would like to hear yours

01:10:03.609 --> 01:10:08.329
as well i think the top one for me other than

01:10:08.329 --> 01:10:09.789
the holiday that we've just talked about like

01:10:09.789 --> 01:10:12.210
that whole thing just as a concept is really

01:10:12.210 --> 01:10:16.609
hot to me yeah um the idea of treating you to

01:10:16.609 --> 01:10:19.250
a luxury week away somewhere hot in the autumn

01:10:19.250 --> 01:10:21.789
and you not having to spend a penny on it apart

01:10:21.789 --> 01:10:23.109
from the spending money while we're there because

01:10:23.109 --> 01:10:24.789
you insisted yeah but yeah there's something

01:10:24.789 --> 01:10:27.029
really hot about the massive imbalance of that

01:10:27.029 --> 01:10:29.130
if the purpose of my money is to make your life

01:10:29.130 --> 01:10:31.529
easier the purpose of me as a submissive is to

01:10:31.529 --> 01:10:34.010
make your life easier better more fun yeah so

01:10:34.010 --> 01:10:37.250
so expressing that in a really material way is

01:10:37.250 --> 01:10:39.869
awesome um but i think my favorite other than

01:10:39.869 --> 01:10:43.670
that was the blowjob game Oh, yes. I enjoyed

01:10:43.670 --> 01:10:45.689
that as well. That was a good game. Shocker that

01:10:45.689 --> 01:10:49.029
you enjoyed the blowjob game. Yeah. Weird. Weird.

01:10:50.270 --> 01:10:53.449
So that game, what we did was we agreed that

01:10:53.449 --> 01:10:56.850
I would try to make Mix come using only my mouth,

01:10:56.970 --> 01:11:00.350
which is immediately hard mode because you don't

01:11:00.350 --> 01:11:03.109
come easily from oral. That's not your go -to.

01:11:03.390 --> 01:11:06.329
So I was only allowed to use my mouth and I would

01:11:06.329 --> 01:11:08.689
have 10 minutes. And for every minute that I

01:11:08.689 --> 01:11:12.970
took, I would... be fined 10 pounds yeah up to

01:11:12.970 --> 01:11:15.869
up to the 10 minutes yeah and then if i had not

01:11:15.869 --> 01:11:19.090
made you come after the 10 minutes yeah then

01:11:19.090 --> 01:11:21.869
you would fuck me which is a win but it would

01:11:21.869 --> 01:11:24.609
cost me 50 quid yeah in an additional fine for

01:11:24.609 --> 01:11:27.109
having failed at the challenge uh yeah i failed

01:11:27.109 --> 01:11:29.210
and i had a great time blew most of that month's

01:11:29.210 --> 01:11:32.010
budget but well worth it well worth it yes um

01:11:32.010 --> 01:11:34.409
but i didn't make it easy for you did i i didn't

01:11:34.409 --> 01:11:36.829
notwithstanding the fact that it isn't particularly

01:11:36.829 --> 01:11:39.399
easy to make me come from for moral anyway just

01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:41.819
because of who i am as a person but you were

01:11:41.819 --> 01:11:45.279
handcuffed yes you were kneeling on the floor

01:11:45.279 --> 01:11:49.819
and you had a hood on yes so the only part of

01:11:49.819 --> 01:11:52.500
your entire head that was exposed was your was

01:11:52.500 --> 01:11:54.800
your mouth yeah which just made it even hotter

01:11:54.800 --> 01:11:57.680
for me because it's literal fleshlight yeah and

01:11:57.680 --> 01:11:59.840
it did make it more difficult because as soon

01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:02.060
as i started a little bit of the hood overlapped

01:12:02.060 --> 01:12:03.720
with my lip and got sort of drawn into my mouth

01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:06.520
right so i had less control i mean i've got botox

01:12:06.520 --> 01:12:09.100
in my top lip anyway yeah um then i've got a

01:12:09.100 --> 01:12:10.920
bit of fabric covering half of my bottom lip

01:12:10.920 --> 01:12:13.119
so i've got very little fine control over what

01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:16.199
my lips do and the filler does a lot of the work

01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:18.180
to be fair i think i'm a lot better at sucking

01:12:18.180 --> 01:12:20.560
dicks since i got basically a plastic mouth,

01:12:20.659 --> 01:12:24.659
but... But still, I was hampered. I did not have

01:12:24.659 --> 01:12:27.560
a whole lot of control. I wasn't allowed to use

01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:29.260
my hands anyway, but having them cuffed definitely

01:12:29.260 --> 01:12:31.819
made it harder because I had less balance. Not

01:12:31.819 --> 01:12:35.220
being able to see meant I couldn't figure out

01:12:35.220 --> 01:12:37.039
exactly where I was at and was getting disoriented.

01:12:38.020 --> 01:12:40.359
Having my handcuffs cuffed behind me meant that

01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:42.579
I started to cramp and get quite sore and stiff

01:12:42.579 --> 01:12:45.380
quite quickly, which also affected things. So

01:12:45.380 --> 01:12:48.680
yeah, it was not the easiest blowjob I've ever

01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:50.819
given. No. I mean, I'm not saying that I set

01:12:50.819 --> 01:12:55.699
you up to fail, but... But that was a substantial

01:12:55.699 --> 01:12:57.819
amount of money as well. We made it even hotter.

01:12:58.039 --> 01:13:02.500
Yeah. And you, like, saved up to do that. You

01:13:02.500 --> 01:13:05.239
deliberately didn't use all of my budget the

01:13:05.239 --> 01:13:07.560
month before so that some would roll over. Yeah.

01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:11.779
So, yeah, we're not casually blowing £150 on

01:13:11.779 --> 01:13:15.239
sex games every day. This was an event. An event.

01:13:15.399 --> 01:13:18.119
Yeah, yeah. It's not our usual level of spending.

01:13:18.359 --> 01:13:21.960
Yeah. But it was hot on the heels of another

01:13:21.960 --> 01:13:24.979
one which was a decent amount of money. Yeah.

01:13:25.100 --> 01:13:30.720
Wasn't it? It was a week or so after we went

01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:33.409
out. Yeah. Yeah. So you'd allowed the money to

01:13:33.409 --> 01:13:34.989
roll over from the previous month because you

01:13:34.989 --> 01:13:37.270
were planning two big ones. Yeah. So there was

01:13:37.270 --> 01:13:39.510
the blowjob game. And shortly before it, we'd

01:13:39.510 --> 01:13:42.510
done the day when we went out day drinking with

01:13:42.510 --> 01:13:45.189
some pals. Yeah. And I was paying for all of

01:13:45.189 --> 01:13:47.069
my drinks, but also all of your drinks and both

01:13:47.069 --> 01:13:49.109
taxis. And we live in the wilderness. So the

01:13:49.109 --> 01:13:51.090
taxis are the biggest cost. Taxis were not cheap.

01:13:51.250 --> 01:13:53.890
No. Yeah. Yeah. So that was another chunk of

01:13:53.890 --> 01:13:56.670
chunk of money. Yeah. That went out, which was

01:13:56.670 --> 01:13:59.800
also fun. Yeah. Although I got in my own way

01:13:59.800 --> 01:14:01.359
a little bit with that one because the original

01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:03.279
idea for the day out was that you would just

01:14:03.279 --> 01:14:05.460
buy everything. Yeah. You would go to the bar

01:14:05.460 --> 01:14:07.899
and pay for everything. And I think I got that

01:14:07.899 --> 01:14:10.420
kind of fear of perception thing there because

01:14:10.420 --> 01:14:12.420
we were with other people that I didn't know.

01:14:12.699 --> 01:14:17.020
Yeah. And they weren't kinky people either. Yeah.

01:14:17.060 --> 01:14:19.750
So we couldn't have just said, oh, yeah. the

01:14:19.750 --> 01:14:22.369
wallet is paying for everything today. I mean,

01:14:22.390 --> 01:14:23.789
we totally could. They would have been cool with

01:14:23.789 --> 01:14:25.630
it. And I think once I was drunk, I did in fact

01:14:25.630 --> 01:14:28.569
say that. Yeah. And they were cool with it. And

01:14:28.569 --> 01:14:30.369
they were cool with it. But I had that worry

01:14:30.369 --> 01:14:32.750
in my head about how is this, I'm meeting these

01:14:32.750 --> 01:14:36.010
people for the first time. Yeah. How is that

01:14:36.010 --> 01:14:38.710
going to be perceived? So instead of making you

01:14:38.710 --> 01:14:41.550
pay for everything in the moment, we kind of

01:14:41.550 --> 01:14:43.550
alternated going to the bar. And afterwards I

01:14:43.550 --> 01:14:45.609
said, I took the money off you. Yeah. For how

01:14:45.609 --> 01:14:51.399
much you'd, how much it. i'd spent for how much

01:14:51.399 --> 01:14:53.680
i'd spent yeah and i don't think that that didn't

01:14:53.680 --> 01:14:56.640
take anything away from it for me the the reimbursing

01:14:56.640 --> 01:14:58.260
you afterwards because that was also quite hot

01:14:58.260 --> 01:14:59.920
yeah you know you have that thing you wake up

01:14:59.920 --> 01:15:02.500
in the morning with a bit of anxiety oh god what

01:15:02.500 --> 01:15:04.840
did i say what did i do how much did i spend

01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:07.699
yeah look at how much i spent and go oh god and

01:15:07.699 --> 01:15:10.079
then you go okay but that's only half of it give

01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:12.460
me the rest yeah like yeah that was quite fun

01:15:12.460 --> 01:15:15.180
as well yeah But yeah, I think if we did it again,

01:15:15.260 --> 01:15:17.300
either just us out drinking or us with some kinky

01:15:17.300 --> 01:15:20.500
people, and you did feel comfy just making me

01:15:20.500 --> 01:15:22.960
go to the bar every time. Yeah. I mean, I hope

01:15:22.960 --> 01:15:25.020
we go somewhere that has a little QR code on

01:15:25.020 --> 01:15:26.439
the table if we do that, because I hate going

01:15:26.439 --> 01:15:28.500
to the bar. That would be the worst part for

01:15:28.500 --> 01:15:30.979
me, not spending the money. Yeah, going out to

01:15:30.979 --> 01:15:33.159
talk to a person. Get up from my seat, talk to

01:15:33.159 --> 01:15:34.760
a person. Terrible. So the things that I put

01:15:34.760 --> 01:15:36.899
into the outline were mainly like my favourite

01:15:36.899 --> 01:15:39.939
bits, but I'm curious because you don't generally

01:15:39.939 --> 01:15:42.399
involve yourself in my outlining. Which happens

01:15:42.399 --> 01:15:44.699
very chaotically in random five minutes of the

01:15:44.699 --> 01:15:47.899
day. What are your highlights from things that

01:15:47.899 --> 01:15:51.920
we've done with Financial Domination Mix? I think

01:15:51.920 --> 01:15:55.100
definitely those two, the blowjob game and the

01:15:55.100 --> 01:15:58.899
day drinking have been highlights. Part of that

01:15:58.899 --> 01:16:01.880
is because they were such substantial sums compared

01:16:01.880 --> 01:16:05.720
to what we normally do. But I think the fun part

01:16:05.720 --> 01:16:07.979
of it for me is probably the kind of the degradation

01:16:07.979 --> 01:16:10.840
that goes along with it. I find that really...

01:16:13.579 --> 01:16:16.500
I find just the process of taking the money off

01:16:16.500 --> 01:16:19.960
you is hot in itself. It's this really weird

01:16:19.960 --> 01:16:22.619
thing where I'm kind of wandering out of Greg's

01:16:22.619 --> 01:16:29.800
going, it's quite exciting to do it. But I think

01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:32.560
it's most fun for me when there's that degradation

01:16:32.560 --> 01:16:38.130
that goes along with it. you know kind of using

01:16:38.130 --> 01:16:40.310
all of the mean words to describe you you're

01:16:40.310 --> 01:16:42.810
just a walking cash machine kind of i really

01:16:42.810 --> 01:16:46.050
enjoy that aspect of it just grinning and vibrating

01:16:46.050 --> 01:16:48.689
as i say that and i did really enjoy as silly

01:16:48.689 --> 01:16:52.970
as it is i did really enjoy that that little

01:16:52.970 --> 01:16:54.630
trip to the co -op where there wasn't enough

01:16:54.630 --> 01:16:56.470
money in the budget because again kind of really

01:16:56.470 --> 01:16:59.949
leaning into that your purpose is to serve me

01:16:59.949 --> 01:17:01.850
your purpose is to cover these costs and you

01:17:01.850 --> 01:17:05.689
can't even do that how useless are you And you're

01:17:05.689 --> 01:17:10.090
so good at that. You are so good at the degrading

01:17:10.090 --> 01:17:12.569
and humiliating aspects of it, which is the thing

01:17:12.569 --> 01:17:14.770
that makes it really hot to me. Yeah. Because

01:17:14.770 --> 01:17:17.029
like you, I find it quite hot if I just, if you

01:17:17.029 --> 01:17:19.289
ask me to, if you tell me to send you some money

01:17:19.289 --> 01:17:21.689
and I send it. Yeah. That's already hot. But

01:17:21.689 --> 01:17:24.909
the extra element of it where you're then getting

01:17:24.909 --> 01:17:27.350
like quite nasty and quite personal sometimes

01:17:27.350 --> 01:17:29.930
with the things you say, you are so skilled at

01:17:29.930 --> 01:17:33.250
that. exactly my thing yeah like there was some

01:17:33.250 --> 01:17:35.949
amazing bits and because it was just so hot it's

01:17:35.949 --> 01:17:38.449
kind of a blur but during the blowjob game there

01:17:38.449 --> 01:17:39.630
were some of the things you were saying there

01:17:39.630 --> 01:17:42.130
where i remember sitting there like oof yeah

01:17:42.130 --> 01:17:45.689
it was amazing oh yeah because i was doing all

01:17:45.689 --> 01:17:47.489
sorts wasn't it i was kind of questioning your

01:17:47.489 --> 01:17:49.710
skills yeah you know questioning your value as

01:17:49.710 --> 01:17:53.590
a person and you know um i think i made reference

01:17:53.590 --> 01:17:55.449
to the fact that with the bimbofication stuff

01:17:55.449 --> 01:17:58.899
having the filler in your lips serves two purposes

01:17:58.899 --> 01:18:00.840
doesn't it one is it kind of fits with that bimbo

01:18:00.840 --> 01:18:02.979
aesthetic but also it allows us to lean into

01:18:02.979 --> 01:18:04.760
that you're actually your face is just a flashlight

01:18:04.760 --> 01:18:07.060
yeah so degrading you for that as well going

01:18:07.060 --> 01:18:09.699
how much money have you spent on your lips and

01:18:09.699 --> 01:18:13.100
you're still fucking useless yes it's that was

01:18:13.100 --> 01:18:16.579
great yeah i enjoy yeah i enjoyed that um for

01:18:16.579 --> 01:18:18.560
the record for anyone curious filler in your

01:18:18.560 --> 01:18:20.539
lips does actually make you better at blow jobs

01:18:20.539 --> 01:18:23.520
i've got less fine control over my lips but i

01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:26.909
i have been told it feels incredible Can confirm.

01:18:27.390 --> 01:18:29.789
I mean, it was great before. Don't get me wrong.

01:18:30.210 --> 01:18:34.010
Very, very good. But yeah, it is a completely

01:18:34.010 --> 01:18:42.630
different feeling. Highly recommended. I'll tell

01:18:42.630 --> 01:18:44.130
you one thing that I do really enjoy, which we've

01:18:44.130 --> 01:18:47.090
not talked about actually, as part of the wider

01:18:47.090 --> 01:18:49.930
financial control, is the way that we deal with

01:18:49.930 --> 01:18:54.979
your share of bills. Yeah. So... for the household

01:18:54.979 --> 01:18:58.920
bills that's just set up on a monthly payment

01:18:58.920 --> 01:19:00.739
that comes out of your account automatically

01:19:00.739 --> 01:19:03.220
and and comes into mine because i pay the bills

01:19:03.220 --> 01:19:05.279
from my account but like grocery shopping i do

01:19:05.279 --> 01:19:08.760
the food shopping so i pay for it and then what

01:19:08.760 --> 01:19:12.100
we did before we started doing findom was i would

01:19:12.100 --> 01:19:14.680
tell you how much your third is and then you

01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:17.539
would send it to me yeah but actually now i already

01:19:17.539 --> 01:19:20.239
knew the code to your phone now i know the pin

01:19:20.239 --> 01:19:23.170
to get into your banking account So whenever

01:19:23.170 --> 01:19:25.189
I need to take money off you for anything like

01:19:25.189 --> 01:19:26.930
that, I just pick up your phone and take it.

01:19:27.069 --> 01:19:29.449
Yeah. And there's something really hot about

01:19:29.449 --> 01:19:32.069
that as well, about that level of, there's something

01:19:32.069 --> 01:19:34.590
about control in there, which is a really core

01:19:34.590 --> 01:19:40.130
part of my kink, like control and power. But

01:19:40.130 --> 01:19:43.529
it also, your money is my money, or actually

01:19:43.529 --> 01:19:47.210
it's my money in your account, kind of vibe to

01:19:47.210 --> 01:19:49.770
it, even though it's a household bill. Yeah.

01:19:50.170 --> 01:19:53.109
you know i agree and and i really find that hot

01:19:53.109 --> 01:19:55.470
because it doesn't require any additional commitment

01:19:55.470 --> 01:19:57.270
of funds to have something else to play with

01:19:57.270 --> 01:19:59.350
this is money that i legitimately owe you for

01:19:59.350 --> 01:20:02.489
my share of things that we've agreed in the same

01:20:02.489 --> 01:20:04.750
way that i would be paying that if we had a a

01:20:04.750 --> 01:20:07.270
non -power exchange relationship yeah what's

01:20:07.270 --> 01:20:09.750
different is the routine of how it's taken And

01:20:09.750 --> 01:20:13.750
we still have around that we have agreed sort

01:20:13.750 --> 01:20:16.869
of safety measures. So you've agreed like you're

01:20:16.869 --> 01:20:19.369
not going to ever go into my savings account,

01:20:19.510 --> 01:20:22.170
my business account. You're not going to mess

01:20:22.170 --> 01:20:23.949
with my credit card. Like all of those are completely

01:20:23.949 --> 01:20:26.050
off limits. You can't touch them. But you can

01:20:26.050 --> 01:20:28.090
open my current account and take money that you

01:20:28.090 --> 01:20:30.510
are owed without asking first, without telling

01:20:30.510 --> 01:20:32.149
me how much it's going to be, anything like that.

01:20:32.369 --> 01:20:35.649
I do generally tell you that, don't I? You do

01:20:35.649 --> 01:20:37.529
afterwards. Also, I could look afterwards. But

01:20:37.529 --> 01:20:40.539
you don't say. I'm going to take £30 off you

01:20:40.539 --> 01:20:42.220
now and then take my phone. You take my phone

01:20:42.220 --> 01:20:44.579
and then afterwards we may talk about how much

01:20:44.579 --> 01:20:50.180
my share of my shopping was. Yes. So it's part

01:20:50.180 --> 01:20:52.699
of how we manage our household finances. But

01:20:52.699 --> 01:20:54.840
in that way that we do, we've managed to pervert

01:20:54.840 --> 01:20:57.880
it somehow. Yes. Which is one of the really fun

01:20:57.880 --> 01:20:59.899
things about power exchange relationships, I

01:20:59.899 --> 01:21:03.060
think, is it's not just the sort of in quotes

01:21:03.060 --> 01:21:05.800
kinky things that you do. It's how do you make

01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:09.649
day to day life. mundane routines how do you

01:21:09.649 --> 01:21:12.569
make them kinky yeah and things like the housework

01:21:12.569 --> 01:21:14.810
and things like how we deal with sort of shared

01:21:14.810 --> 01:21:18.350
costs of things and subtle little bits of protocol

01:21:18.350 --> 01:21:20.350
that carry over into public life and all of that

01:21:20.350 --> 01:21:23.210
stuff yeah that's how you make a 24 7 dynamic

01:21:23.210 --> 01:21:26.909
really feel like a living breathing part of your

01:21:26.909 --> 01:21:29.630
life yeah because you can have a 24 7 dynamic

01:21:29.630 --> 01:21:31.390
that doesn't have those things where the rules

01:21:31.390 --> 01:21:32.630
are sort of always just kind of there in the

01:21:32.630 --> 01:21:35.310
background but the more little ways you can find

01:21:35.310 --> 01:21:38.960
to integrate it into daily routine The more connected

01:21:38.960 --> 01:21:42.460
it feels. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I

01:21:42.460 --> 01:21:44.880
really enjoy that. Last thing. One last thing

01:21:44.880 --> 01:21:46.619
that I've just remembered because it only happened

01:21:46.619 --> 01:21:54.640
the other day was part of our routine is that

01:21:54.640 --> 01:21:57.380
you make a meal plan and a shopping list every

01:21:57.380 --> 01:22:00.539
week. Yes. And I go and do the shopping and then

01:22:00.539 --> 01:22:02.500
I take the money off you for your share of it.

01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:08.399
So I will buy what is on the list. This week

01:22:08.399 --> 01:22:13.840
you added garlic and spicy water. Yes. For people

01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:17.260
who aren't deranged, spicy water is fizzy water.

01:22:17.520 --> 01:22:21.399
Yes, sparkling water for the posh people, which

01:22:21.399 --> 01:22:24.500
we didn't need. Well, I noticed that when I got

01:22:24.500 --> 01:22:26.659
home. Yeah. It kind of was a little bit mean

01:22:26.659 --> 01:22:30.260
to you. But then when I took your share of the

01:22:30.260 --> 01:22:34.739
shopping. I added a £10 dumbfuck fine. Yes, I

01:22:34.739 --> 01:22:39.039
did enjoy the dumbfuck fine. Because we bought

01:22:39.039 --> 01:22:42.319
things that we didn't need. Yeah. I am sure you

01:22:42.319 --> 01:22:44.260
were out of spicy water, though. I remember looking

01:22:44.260 --> 01:22:45.739
in the fridge and only seeing one bottle there,

01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:47.319
so I don't know where the rest was hiding. It

01:22:47.319 --> 01:22:49.760
was on top of the fridge. I'm too short to see

01:22:49.760 --> 01:22:55.380
that. It sounds like a skill issue to me. You're

01:22:55.380 --> 01:22:57.930
definitely not too short to see the... five bulbs

01:22:57.930 --> 01:23:00.289
of garlic that we already had in the fridge yeah

01:23:00.289 --> 01:23:02.010
i think they were under the potatoes and i didn't

01:23:02.010 --> 01:23:07.229
i had a man look you did yeah um but yeah the

01:23:07.229 --> 01:23:09.970
the dumb fuck fine was was was a lot of fun yeah

01:23:09.970 --> 01:23:12.569
to add on i really like that because it's stuff

01:23:12.569 --> 01:23:14.350
we talked about when we first negotiated for

01:23:14.350 --> 01:23:17.109
findom wasn't it like obviously the budget was

01:23:17.109 --> 01:23:19.670
an element of it but also what you could do um

01:23:19.670 --> 01:23:22.909
so we initially a lot of what we did was reimbursement

01:23:22.909 --> 01:23:25.470
you would buy yourself a coffee or a snack or

01:23:25.470 --> 01:23:28.149
lunch or whatever it was and then expect me to

01:23:28.149 --> 01:23:30.010
cover it like tell me you know cover this and

01:23:30.010 --> 01:23:32.189
i would pay you back yeah yeah um but we've definitely

01:23:32.189 --> 01:23:34.350
started branching out more with things like randomly

01:23:34.350 --> 01:23:37.130
being fined or just taking money off me because

01:23:37.130 --> 01:23:39.369
you can or playing games with it and yeah yeah

01:23:39.369 --> 01:23:41.609
there's there's not any limits we've set around

01:23:41.609 --> 01:23:43.310
how you take the money off me it's completely

01:23:43.310 --> 01:23:45.689
up to you what that looks like i'm having fun

01:23:45.689 --> 01:23:48.050
with the variety of it yeah i could do i the

01:23:48.050 --> 01:23:51.930
the idea is that you're holding my money and

01:23:51.930 --> 01:23:55.560
i can take it off you at any time yes love that

01:23:55.560 --> 01:23:59.180
so as a result of us doing this since november

01:23:59.180 --> 01:24:02.239
you have acquired quite a lot of my money i have

01:24:02.239 --> 01:24:04.760
yeah have you um apart from the things that i've

01:24:04.760 --> 01:24:06.300
been reimbursing you for money that you've already

01:24:06.300 --> 01:24:09.520
spent have you spent any of it mix do you know

01:24:09.520 --> 01:24:13.680
what i don't think i have um no weirdly it's

01:24:13.680 --> 01:24:16.500
a bit that i'm struggling with and it's not struggling

01:24:16.500 --> 01:24:19.020
in terms of like it's not a problem or i'm not

01:24:19.020 --> 01:24:21.060
worried about it or concerned about it but i

01:24:21.060 --> 01:24:24.319
just don't spend money on myself very often so

01:24:24.319 --> 01:24:28.920
in the two or three months where we were doing

01:24:28.920 --> 01:24:30.640
it in that way that i would put the money in

01:24:30.640 --> 01:24:32.880
a separate pot just in case you needed to to

01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:34.539
kind of take it back so i knew exactly how much

01:24:34.539 --> 01:24:36.600
it was and i think most of that went into my

01:24:36.600 --> 01:24:41.340
savings um and then since we've changed that

01:24:41.340 --> 01:24:44.600
because a weird thing with that was we were talking

01:24:44.600 --> 01:24:48.920
about wanting to feel the impact of it But the

01:24:48.920 --> 01:24:50.920
focus of that was on you wanting to feel the

01:24:50.920 --> 01:24:52.800
impact of that, kind of set it at a level where

01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:55.600
you're going to notice that the money isn't there.

01:24:58.300 --> 01:25:00.739
But I think part of what was behind that kind

01:25:00.739 --> 01:25:02.819
of change of, okay, well, let's relax that requirement

01:25:02.819 --> 01:25:04.859
around kind of keeping it in a separate pot and

01:25:04.859 --> 01:25:06.819
stuff like that, is that I wasn't feeling the

01:25:06.819 --> 01:25:10.220
benefit of it. Yeah. You know, I was still spending

01:25:10.220 --> 01:25:12.079
the money. My bank account was still reducing

01:25:12.079 --> 01:25:13.579
by however much, even though it was only a few

01:25:13.579 --> 01:25:16.880
quid at a time. My bank account was still reducing.

01:25:17.430 --> 01:25:19.350
because of the way that we work so i wanted to

01:25:19.350 --> 01:25:21.470
kind of like feel like i was getting the benefit

01:25:21.470 --> 01:25:23.890
of it in the same way that you were or the opposite

01:25:23.890 --> 01:25:27.329
way that you were uh i suppose so the so the

01:25:27.329 --> 01:25:29.489
money from those first few months has gone into

01:25:29.489 --> 01:25:33.329
my savings and the money from since we changed

01:25:33.329 --> 01:25:37.050
the rule has just meant that my bank balance

01:25:37.050 --> 01:25:39.609
is as a result you know quite significantly healthier

01:25:39.609 --> 01:25:43.170
i get paid again on tuesday and i'm shocked by

01:25:43.170 --> 01:25:47.909
how much is still in my account Good. I love

01:25:47.909 --> 01:25:49.890
that for you. Yeah. But it would also be nice

01:25:49.890 --> 01:25:53.270
to see you make some fun purchases. Yeah. Yeah.

01:25:53.949 --> 01:25:56.649
I need to have a think about it because the conversation

01:25:56.649 --> 01:25:59.930
that we had at the start, like we had the conversation

01:25:59.930 --> 01:26:02.250
about, so what do I do with the money? And I

01:26:02.250 --> 01:26:05.550
almost felt this obligation to spend it on us.

01:26:05.789 --> 01:26:09.409
Yeah. You know, like if we go out for an adventure

01:26:09.409 --> 01:26:11.390
or something like that, to pay for it. And that

01:26:11.390 --> 01:26:14.609
might still be a feature of it, but I haven't

01:26:14.609 --> 01:26:17.239
really fully resolved. what to do with the extra

01:26:17.239 --> 01:26:21.960
money. But there is just something quite nice

01:26:21.960 --> 01:26:24.300
about just having those expenses covered in that

01:26:24.300 --> 01:26:27.640
really direct way. So I buy something, but my

01:26:27.640 --> 01:26:30.539
bank balance doesn't go down. Yeah. And that

01:26:30.539 --> 01:26:36.250
in itself is kind of hot. Yeah. And it's a way

01:26:36.250 --> 01:26:38.229
that benefits me and makes my life easier, which

01:26:38.229 --> 01:26:40.529
is part of the point of doing it. But as a result

01:26:40.529 --> 01:26:42.789
of that, because my spending habits haven't changed,

01:26:43.109 --> 01:26:44.630
I'm kind of left with, okay, so what do I do

01:26:44.630 --> 01:26:46.430
with this little lump of money? Do I squirrel

01:26:46.430 --> 01:26:48.850
it in savings and be sensible? Or do I buy some

01:26:48.850 --> 01:26:52.510
silly Lego set? Which I might do, actually. Yeah.

01:26:52.569 --> 01:26:57.090
Because there's a new Formula One car, the MC39,

01:26:57.210 --> 01:26:59.449
which is last year's, last season's McLaren.

01:27:00.569 --> 01:27:04.090
It's out and it looks mint. It looks absolutely

01:27:04.090 --> 01:27:07.390
brilliant. I love how nerdy that is as an option

01:27:07.390 --> 01:27:09.390
as well. It's like people's perception of Fyndom

01:27:09.390 --> 01:27:13.050
might be like a stunning woman in black leather

01:27:13.050 --> 01:27:16.390
making some man buy her designer shoes and handbags.

01:27:16.649 --> 01:27:18.829
Yeah, yeah. And then in our household, it's like,

01:27:18.829 --> 01:27:21.670
no, like, Mix is going to buy a Lego car. Yeah,

01:27:21.710 --> 01:27:27.869
a Lego Formula One car. Nerdery on nerdery. But

01:27:27.869 --> 01:27:30.350
it's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. This

01:27:30.350 --> 01:27:35.119
one is beautiful. So I might get that. Excellent.

01:27:36.180 --> 01:27:37.920
I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. I'm

01:27:37.920 --> 01:27:39.840
not going to kind of sit and fret about it, but

01:27:39.840 --> 01:27:42.220
I think it would add a layer of fun and hotness

01:27:42.220 --> 01:27:45.800
to it if rather than just letting the money kind

01:27:45.800 --> 01:27:48.760
of cover expenses, actually, I am buying things

01:27:48.760 --> 01:27:53.600
and almost making the point you bought this wallet.

01:27:54.239 --> 01:27:56.289
Yeah. Because I found it hot. You didn't end

01:27:56.289 --> 01:27:57.810
up getting anything, but there was one time we

01:27:57.810 --> 01:27:59.850
went to the supermarket, a rare occasion where

01:27:59.850 --> 01:28:01.810
I was allowed in the supermarket along with you.

01:28:01.890 --> 01:28:03.390
Yeah, yeah. Because when I'm in the supermarket,

01:28:03.609 --> 01:28:07.029
it tends to get expensive. Yes. I put things

01:28:07.029 --> 01:28:09.710
into the trolley. Yes. But yes, I was in the

01:28:09.710 --> 01:28:12.350
supermarket. Usually pals. Yes, yes. Like when

01:28:12.350 --> 01:28:14.750
you took me to the supermarket and I got another

01:28:14.750 --> 01:28:19.270
giant cow. Yeah. His name is Teacup. Yes. So

01:28:19.270 --> 01:28:21.329
yes, I was in the supermarket with you. And as

01:28:21.329 --> 01:28:22.609
we were going around our shopping, you stopped

01:28:22.609 --> 01:28:24.329
and looked at all the Lego sets and were like,

01:28:24.350 --> 01:28:28.180
hmm. some some pay pig gave me 50 pounds yesterday

01:28:28.180 --> 01:28:30.180
i'm gonna see what i can buy with it yeah and

01:28:30.180 --> 01:28:31.859
you didn't end up getting anything but just like

01:28:31.859 --> 01:28:34.039
that thing of you sort of shopping in front of

01:28:34.039 --> 01:28:36.319
me with my money was very hot so yeah yeah i

01:28:36.319 --> 01:28:39.300
encourage more of this yeah and i almost feel

01:28:39.300 --> 01:28:43.159
like it's it's a weird sense of obligation to

01:28:43.159 --> 01:28:47.039
to feel i suppose is is it's almost like maybe

01:28:47.039 --> 01:28:49.159
that's the route i do need to go down with it

01:28:49.159 --> 01:28:52.300
because then it's just another layer on the on

01:28:52.300 --> 01:28:54.579
the kink yeah You've got the process of taking

01:28:54.579 --> 01:28:56.739
the money off you in the first place, the impact

01:28:56.739 --> 01:28:59.319
that that has on you and me. And then it's like,

01:28:59.399 --> 01:29:02.119
I'm spending your money on something frivolous.

01:29:02.180 --> 01:29:07.539
Yeah. But yeah, it shows you that the level of

01:29:07.539 --> 01:29:10.000
overthinking that I do is that at the beginning,

01:29:10.020 --> 01:29:12.380
I was almost worried about not spending the money

01:29:12.380 --> 01:29:15.829
that I take off you. on you yeah i remember that

01:29:15.829 --> 01:29:17.890
yeah you did you even talked about like should

01:29:17.890 --> 01:29:19.590
i just take it off you for a period of time and

01:29:19.590 --> 01:29:20.970
then every now and again give it you back and

01:29:20.970 --> 01:29:24.829
i was like no absolutely not but i could understand

01:29:24.829 --> 01:29:27.829
why that felt like sort of the the safest like

01:29:27.829 --> 01:29:29.970
most comfortable approach but that would kind

01:29:29.970 --> 01:29:32.079
of take a lot of their the edge out of it for

01:29:32.079 --> 01:29:35.279
me but we talked about if you don't feel super

01:29:35.279 --> 01:29:37.659
comfy just spending it on yourself taking me

01:29:37.659 --> 01:29:39.779
for a weekend away or going out for a meal together

01:29:39.779 --> 01:29:42.260
or something that benefits both of us yeah like

01:29:42.260 --> 01:29:44.340
would feel like a good compromise there and that's

01:29:44.340 --> 01:29:46.859
as you say still an option yeah but i think you

01:29:46.859 --> 01:29:48.619
have stepped into your confidence with it a little

01:29:48.619 --> 01:29:50.399
bit now where probably you would feel comfortable

01:29:50.399 --> 01:29:53.899
going i've now saved up enough money from my

01:29:53.899 --> 01:29:56.300
pay pig that i'm gonna get myself this ridiculous

01:29:56.300 --> 01:29:59.279
big lego set yeah and that would be excellent

01:29:59.279 --> 01:30:04.659
as well Yeah, I think I just need to stop overthinking

01:30:04.659 --> 01:30:06.720
and enjoy it. And as we've said a couple of times,

01:30:06.800 --> 01:30:09.060
this is how we do it. And this is something that

01:30:09.060 --> 01:30:10.920
we're figuring out. I don't think there is a

01:30:10.920 --> 01:30:12.899
right or a wrong way. I think the idea that you

01:30:12.899 --> 01:30:15.060
had of sort of periodically just giving me a

01:30:15.060 --> 01:30:17.600
big lump of the money back. For me, it would

01:30:17.600 --> 01:30:18.979
have felt like it took something away from it.

01:30:19.000 --> 01:30:21.060
For some other people, that might be the ideal

01:30:21.060 --> 01:30:24.100
zero impact way of doing Fyndom. You get all

01:30:24.100 --> 01:30:25.939
the fun of the process, but no one actually ends

01:30:25.939 --> 01:30:27.479
up in a different financial position than where

01:30:27.479 --> 01:30:29.520
they started out. If anything, the sub benefits

01:30:29.520 --> 01:30:31.590
a little bit because it's a... enforced saving

01:30:31.590 --> 01:30:34.970
essentially at that point yeah yeah yeah um there's

01:30:34.970 --> 01:30:36.810
a lot of ways that this can be adapted and i

01:30:36.810 --> 01:30:39.069
think that's something that i've really enjoyed

01:30:39.069 --> 01:30:41.970
about exploring it with you is we looked at what

01:30:41.970 --> 01:30:43.890
would make it fit our lives we looked at what

01:30:43.890 --> 01:30:46.529
would make sense for us and we created our version

01:30:46.529 --> 01:30:49.470
of it it just shows how you really can make this

01:30:49.470 --> 01:30:52.090
fit for maybe not everyone like i say if you're

01:30:52.090 --> 01:30:54.430
in unmanageable debt if you really are budgeting

01:30:54.430 --> 01:30:56.390
to the penny every month you're probably not

01:30:56.680 --> 01:30:58.199
it's not going to be a good idea to start messing

01:30:58.199 --> 01:31:00.460
with that. No. But for the majority of people,

01:31:00.579 --> 01:31:02.800
there will be a little bit of flex in your budget

01:31:02.800 --> 01:31:04.840
somewhere where you can go, yeah, maybe that

01:31:04.840 --> 01:31:07.140
might be fun to play with. Yeah. If it appeals.

01:31:07.579 --> 01:31:10.779
Yeah. Yeah, if it appeals. Because I think that's

01:31:10.779 --> 01:31:13.899
the... I think that's one of the risks that people

01:31:13.899 --> 01:31:16.460
need to kind of think about with this, isn't

01:31:16.460 --> 01:31:21.079
it? Is that once you start doing it, I think

01:31:21.079 --> 01:31:24.810
we were both surprised by how... exciting it

01:31:24.810 --> 01:31:27.470
was yeah and how much fun it is and how hot it

01:31:27.470 --> 01:31:34.430
is and and um how it really reinforces the dynamic

01:31:34.430 --> 01:31:36.369
and there is a level of kind of intimacy and

01:31:36.369 --> 01:31:38.729
closeness to it as well kind of that like you

01:31:38.729 --> 01:31:41.449
say that every day sort of demonstration of our

01:31:41.449 --> 01:31:43.810
dynamic and our power difference it's easy to

01:31:43.810 --> 01:31:46.930
see how people get themselves into trouble with

01:31:46.930 --> 01:31:49.649
it like actual trouble yeah with it because it's

01:31:49.649 --> 01:31:52.909
quite intoxicating it really is yeah i imagine

01:31:52.909 --> 01:31:56.550
it's similar to the headspace of the early stages

01:31:56.550 --> 01:31:58.829
of a gambling addiction it feels like it could

01:31:58.829 --> 01:32:01.869
be risky in the same way yeah um it's definitely

01:32:01.869 --> 01:32:03.909
something that i keep check on in myself because

01:32:03.909 --> 01:32:06.789
of my history of addiction and because of my

01:32:06.789 --> 01:32:08.949
experience of sub frenzy and things like that

01:32:08.949 --> 01:32:11.350
like i really keep a close eye on how i am with

01:32:11.350 --> 01:32:12.710
it and like i said there's been a couple of times

01:32:12.710 --> 01:32:14.970
where i'm working out my budget for the month

01:32:14.970 --> 01:32:17.390
and i've got you know quite a bit of spare money

01:32:17.920 --> 01:32:20.319
I'm like, I could just chuck like half of my

01:32:20.319 --> 01:32:22.100
wage into the Fyndham budget this month and I'd

01:32:22.100 --> 01:32:24.319
probably be okay. And I sort of catch myself

01:32:24.319 --> 01:32:27.000
and go, yeah, but if I do that, it's not going

01:32:27.000 --> 01:32:28.880
to feel as good when I reduce the budget next

01:32:28.880 --> 01:32:30.899
month. It's going to then not feel significant.

01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:33.199
And then I'm going to be tempted to try to keep

01:32:33.199 --> 01:32:34.960
doing this over and over. It's not sustainable.

01:32:35.319 --> 01:32:37.520
And I'm not taking care of my wellbeing, which

01:32:37.520 --> 01:32:40.039
is my responsibility as well as yours. And so

01:32:40.039 --> 01:32:41.979
I go, no, big chunk of that is going into savings

01:32:41.979 --> 01:32:46.619
and I'm going to be sensible. So yeah, I think

01:32:46.619 --> 01:32:49.189
it's... Having the self -awareness to notice

01:32:49.189 --> 01:32:51.149
if you're becoming tempted to do something irresponsible

01:32:51.149 --> 01:32:54.470
with it and being responsible for yourself, but

01:32:54.470 --> 01:32:56.189
also taking some responsibility for each other

01:32:56.189 --> 01:32:58.649
as well. Recognising if it's having a negative

01:32:58.649 --> 01:33:01.329
impact on each other and checking in regularly

01:33:01.329 --> 01:33:03.029
and helping to correct course if that happens.

01:33:03.550 --> 01:33:05.810
Yeah, yeah. Because although we haven't been

01:33:05.810 --> 01:33:09.930
doing it for ages and ages and ages, we've been

01:33:09.930 --> 01:33:12.329
doing it for a little while. And I think to begin

01:33:12.329 --> 01:33:14.810
with, I was very conscious about the amount of

01:33:14.810 --> 01:33:17.220
the budget that you were setting. And I kind

01:33:17.220 --> 01:33:20.020
of, I would check in and go, is that okay? Are

01:33:20.020 --> 01:33:23.479
you sure that's affordable? I think I've forced

01:33:23.479 --> 01:33:26.239
myself, forced is a strong word, but I have got

01:33:26.239 --> 01:33:29.359
myself to a place where I can trust that whatever

01:33:29.359 --> 01:33:31.880
the level is that you set for it, either at the

01:33:31.880 --> 01:33:34.079
beginning of the month or if you raise it during

01:33:34.079 --> 01:33:37.100
the month, that it is affordable. Yeah. And I

01:33:37.100 --> 01:33:39.060
think it's still something that I'm aware of.

01:33:39.359 --> 01:33:41.539
And I think if you suddenly said next month,

01:33:41.560 --> 01:33:44.590
oh yeah, the budget's 600 quid. We will have

01:33:44.590 --> 01:33:47.390
a conversation about that. Yeah. Which would

01:33:47.390 --> 01:33:49.270
go along exactly those lines. And there is that

01:33:49.270 --> 01:33:51.010
weird thing of actually you don't want to peak

01:33:51.010 --> 01:33:53.529
too early. Yeah. If you say it's 600 quid one

01:33:53.529 --> 01:33:56.649
month and 50 quid the next month, entirely acceptable.

01:33:56.670 --> 01:34:00.210
We will have fun with that. But you will have

01:34:00.210 --> 01:34:03.310
that experience of having had 600. So, yeah,

01:34:03.350 --> 01:34:04.930
the moral of the story is if you're going to

01:34:04.930 --> 01:34:06.909
do this stuff, think it through. Definitely.

01:34:06.909 --> 01:34:12.710
And be sensible with it. But as we've said. Several

01:34:12.710 --> 01:34:16.729
times throughout today's episode It's hot It

01:34:16.729 --> 01:34:21.289
is hot It's really hot But why? Why is it so

01:34:21.289 --> 01:34:25.010
hot? that is a good question mix i think my initial

01:34:25.010 --> 01:34:28.289
reaction to it was something very tied into my

01:34:28.289 --> 01:34:30.930
masochism so the first joke always risky joking

01:34:30.930 --> 01:34:32.810
about kinks but when you joked about making me

01:34:32.810 --> 01:34:35.649
pay at the munch yeah we've sort of been in a

01:34:35.649 --> 01:34:37.590
routine for a while with that munch where generally

01:34:37.590 --> 01:34:40.050
you buy lunch because there is not an app and

01:34:40.050 --> 01:34:41.989
you have to talk to a person and i hate it yeah

01:34:41.989 --> 01:34:44.989
um and then we generally take it in turns buying

01:34:44.989 --> 01:34:46.609
drinks but you sometimes buy a few more of them

01:34:46.859 --> 01:34:48.359
Because again, you have to talk to a person.

01:34:48.680 --> 01:34:51.039
So I'm quite used to when I go to that munch,

01:34:51.079 --> 01:34:52.779
I don't necessarily spend a whole lot of money.

01:34:52.899 --> 01:34:54.779
Yeah. And when we were on the way there and you

01:34:54.779 --> 01:34:56.579
made that joke about making me pay for everything.

01:34:56.899 --> 01:35:00.100
Yeah. It's like, oh, that's so cruel. And I like

01:35:00.100 --> 01:35:03.199
cruelty very, very much. But as we've explored

01:35:03.199 --> 01:35:05.340
it more, there's definitely a lot more layers

01:35:05.340 --> 01:35:07.119
to it than that. Sometimes it is that cruelty

01:35:07.119 --> 01:35:11.020
of making me pay for something and me setting

01:35:11.020 --> 01:35:12.659
the budget high enough that I will feel that

01:35:12.659 --> 01:35:15.739
a little bit without it being risky. A lot of

01:35:15.739 --> 01:35:18.420
the time it's about the humiliation. So the verbal

01:35:18.420 --> 01:35:20.539
stuff that goes along with it, the names you

01:35:20.539 --> 01:35:23.239
call me and when there's not enough in the budget

01:35:23.239 --> 01:35:24.800
to cover something and those kind of things.

01:35:24.859 --> 01:35:28.909
Really enjoy that. but there's also something

01:35:28.909 --> 01:35:32.489
about the hierarchical nature of it where it

01:35:32.489 --> 01:35:34.810
again really elevates you in that position where

01:35:34.810 --> 01:35:37.390
i am just property anything of mine is yours

01:35:37.390 --> 01:35:40.210
to use as you please yeah your money is more

01:35:40.210 --> 01:35:42.329
important than my money so spend mine all of

01:35:42.329 --> 01:35:44.689
that kind of stuff yeah yeah and there's a lot

01:35:44.689 --> 01:35:46.510
of intimacy and vulnerability in it for me as

01:35:46.510 --> 01:35:49.970
well i think where because money is such a taboo

01:35:49.970 --> 01:35:52.310
subject and a difficult thing and sometimes like

01:35:52.310 --> 01:35:55.260
a a problem or a source of tension in relationships

01:35:55.260 --> 01:35:58.060
yeah making that something that is completely

01:35:58.060 --> 01:36:00.560
transparent not just with the honesty stuff i

01:36:00.560 --> 01:36:03.460
talked about earlier but you can put your hands

01:36:03.460 --> 01:36:06.520
in it and footle about yeah yeah like that's

01:36:06.520 --> 01:36:10.600
that's cracking open a whole other level of of

01:36:10.600 --> 01:36:13.039
me i think we often we don't think of money as

01:36:13.039 --> 01:36:14.760
being part of our identity because it's not supposed

01:36:14.760 --> 01:36:17.539
to be part of your identity but the amount of

01:36:17.539 --> 01:36:20.119
money you earn massively influences the life

01:36:20.119 --> 01:36:22.579
that you live the social circles you move in

01:36:22.579 --> 01:36:26.300
the way that you look the options you have in

01:36:26.300 --> 01:36:29.140
life the amount of privilege you have all of

01:36:29.140 --> 01:36:32.159
this is so tied to money it actually is a very

01:36:32.159 --> 01:36:34.020
big part of people's identities in a way that

01:36:34.020 --> 01:36:35.560
we don't really like to examine because it's

01:36:35.560 --> 01:36:38.319
uncomfortable yeah And when you start playing

01:36:38.319 --> 01:36:40.220
with it and integrating it into your romantic

01:36:40.220 --> 01:36:42.920
relationship, you can't ignore the relationship

01:36:42.920 --> 01:36:44.699
that you have with money and how that defines

01:36:44.699 --> 01:36:47.079
who you are as a person. Yeah. Which is really

01:36:47.079 --> 01:36:49.180
interesting. It's made me a lot more self -aware

01:36:49.180 --> 01:36:51.539
about that, I think, as well. Right. That's fascinating.

01:36:51.779 --> 01:36:54.939
But I think that doesn't surprise me at all.

01:36:55.539 --> 01:36:57.880
A, because I know who you are as a person and

01:36:57.880 --> 01:37:00.579
you are quite a deep thinker. I am the over -thinker,

01:37:00.579 --> 01:37:04.380
you are the deep thinker. But that is how a lot

01:37:04.380 --> 01:37:07.720
of kinks work as well. You know, there's so much

01:37:07.720 --> 01:37:11.920
of kink and not even necessarily the kind of

01:37:11.920 --> 01:37:17.180
the more edgy, darker kinks. They imitate real

01:37:17.180 --> 01:37:20.340
world structures and real world oppression and

01:37:20.340 --> 01:37:22.979
stuff like that. They are imitating those things,

01:37:23.060 --> 01:37:26.420
not replicating them. So, yeah, it's not surprising

01:37:26.420 --> 01:37:28.279
that there's that kind of element of like the

01:37:28.279 --> 01:37:30.260
role that money plays in people's lives and society

01:37:30.260 --> 01:37:33.920
is a factor in the enjoyment that you get out

01:37:33.920 --> 01:37:36.199
of the kink associated with it as well. Yeah.

01:37:36.340 --> 01:37:38.640
It's not really. I think I've always had such

01:37:38.640 --> 01:37:42.380
a complicated relationship with money and financial

01:37:42.380 --> 01:37:45.460
status because I was brought up in a pretty well

01:37:45.460 --> 01:37:50.000
-off family and then left home and had a minimum

01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:52.560
wage job and then went from that to being a sex

01:37:52.560 --> 01:37:55.680
worker and earning insane amount of money early

01:37:55.680 --> 01:37:58.340
on. And then because of my mental instability.

01:37:59.050 --> 01:38:01.149
having very unreliable earnings for a period

01:38:01.149 --> 01:38:04.069
after that and a lot of up and downs since then

01:38:04.069 --> 01:38:05.829
you know my addiction meant that i never had

01:38:05.829 --> 01:38:08.449
any money and then i got a pretty good job and

01:38:08.449 --> 01:38:11.569
suddenly had money and then cost of living suddenly

01:38:11.569 --> 01:38:13.430
shot up and that amount of money wasn't a lot

01:38:13.430 --> 01:38:16.470
of money anymore and i've had a very rapid yo

01:38:16.470 --> 01:38:18.850
-yoing between periods of pretty severe poverty

01:38:19.439 --> 01:38:21.720
with positions of being in a much better financial

01:38:21.720 --> 01:38:24.300
position than a lot of my friends at other times

01:38:24.300 --> 01:38:26.739
and going rapidly backwards and forwards between

01:38:26.739 --> 01:38:29.000
the two where it's often felt like money was

01:38:29.000 --> 01:38:31.520
this like ridiculously powerful force in my life

01:38:31.520 --> 01:38:33.899
that I had no control over and it would just

01:38:33.899 --> 01:38:37.539
yank me about where one week I can't afford food

01:38:37.539 --> 01:38:40.239
and then a few weeks later I'm paying for everyone

01:38:40.239 --> 01:38:42.039
to go out for dinner you know like that kind

01:38:42.039 --> 01:38:46.119
of whiplash and being in a position where that

01:38:46.119 --> 01:38:49.770
power of money becomes externalized and becomes

01:38:49.770 --> 01:38:54.750
controlled and becomes regulated has come alongside

01:38:54.750 --> 01:38:57.449
a period of unprecedented financial stability

01:38:57.449 --> 01:39:01.689
in my life and it's just given me that much more

01:39:01.689 --> 01:39:04.649
comfortable feeling talking about it and thinking

01:39:04.649 --> 01:39:06.550
about it which has been really healthy as well

01:39:06.550 --> 01:39:09.239
yeah um and there's a lot of elements to that

01:39:09.239 --> 01:39:11.619
obviously the fact that i'm now in a stable well

01:39:11.619 --> 01:39:13.899
-paid job and i'm living with someone who is

01:39:13.899 --> 01:39:15.739
in an even more stable and even more well -paid

01:39:15.739 --> 01:39:18.840
job was always going to improve my relationship

01:39:18.840 --> 01:39:20.579
with money and my confidence in dealing with

01:39:20.579 --> 01:39:24.939
it yeah but i think being a lot more really actively

01:39:24.939 --> 01:39:27.180
conscious about it at all times because it's

01:39:27.180 --> 01:39:30.039
a part of our relationship has added a layer

01:39:30.039 --> 01:39:33.800
to that that's been really helpful yeah amazing

01:39:33.800 --> 01:39:38.159
amazing Just as a brief diversion back to something

01:39:38.159 --> 01:39:39.659
we talked about earlier on, we were talking about

01:39:39.659 --> 01:39:41.859
our income difference and how we deal with the

01:39:41.859 --> 01:39:45.260
bills. I remember part of the conversation about

01:39:45.260 --> 01:39:47.060
kind of how we were going to split them and how

01:39:47.060 --> 01:39:48.840
we weren't going to split it 50 -50. We were

01:39:48.840 --> 01:39:50.579
going to do it based on our relative contribution

01:39:50.579 --> 01:39:55.260
to the household income. You were saying things

01:39:55.260 --> 01:39:56.619
like, well, I don't feel like I'm contributing

01:39:56.619 --> 01:39:58.020
enough because that means that you're paying

01:39:58.020 --> 01:40:01.060
more. And I was like, you moving in makes my

01:40:01.060 --> 01:40:04.939
life cheaper. So if it makes it slightly less

01:40:04.939 --> 01:40:09.850
cheap, then it's still cheaper yeah someone else

01:40:09.850 --> 01:40:12.229
is paying some of the bills it took me months

01:40:12.229 --> 01:40:15.050
to really fully get my head around that i i was

01:40:15.050 --> 01:40:17.430
like i feel like a freeloader here by not paying

01:40:17.430 --> 01:40:20.229
my full half yeah but even if i'd come in and

01:40:20.229 --> 01:40:22.750
said i'll pay you 20 quid a month yeah you're

01:40:22.750 --> 01:40:24.310
still 20 quid a month better off than you would

01:40:24.310 --> 01:40:26.109
have been yeah yeah and i just couldn't quite

01:40:26.109 --> 01:40:29.069
yeah get my head around how that worked but yeah

01:40:29.069 --> 01:40:30.729
before you moved in nobody else was paying the

01:40:30.729 --> 01:40:36.319
bills yeah you know um Yeah, it's just that weird

01:40:36.319 --> 01:40:38.859
perception, I guess, you can have around money

01:40:38.859 --> 01:40:41.920
and feeling like you're not contributing or feeling

01:40:41.920 --> 01:40:44.600
like you're doing it wrong somehow. Yeah. And

01:40:44.600 --> 01:40:48.859
you go, no, you've made my life easier by contributing.

01:40:50.239 --> 01:40:52.619
Well, that was very deep, wasn't it? Yes. What

01:40:52.619 --> 01:40:54.779
about you, Mix, though? What does financial domination

01:40:54.779 --> 01:40:57.579
do for you, apart from bulking up your savings?

01:40:57.880 --> 01:40:59.840
Apart from giving me more money. Well, let's

01:40:59.840 --> 01:41:01.500
throw that open to the audience. What do I always

01:41:01.500 --> 01:41:06.100
say? This will truly be the meme of the podcast.

01:41:06.220 --> 01:41:12.460
Yeah, yeah. There is something for me in the

01:41:12.460 --> 01:41:16.420
transactional nature of it. Obviously, because

01:41:16.420 --> 01:41:20.279
control and power are my core kinks, if you like.

01:41:20.359 --> 01:41:24.260
The conceptual reason why I do kink is about

01:41:24.260 --> 01:41:26.539
having control and power and exercising that

01:41:26.539 --> 01:41:29.079
control and power. So there is definitely an

01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:33.210
element of that to find on as well. But I think

01:41:33.210 --> 01:41:36.130
what makes it even more exciting for me is kind

01:41:36.130 --> 01:41:37.789
of going back to what we were talking about before

01:41:37.789 --> 01:41:40.829
about how it can feel transactional and it can

01:41:40.829 --> 01:41:45.449
feel a little bit impersonal. It's not for us.

01:41:45.529 --> 01:41:47.449
It's not in the way that we do it, but it does

01:41:47.449 --> 01:41:49.949
have that kind of element to it and really leans

01:41:49.949 --> 01:41:53.649
into what you just said about you are property.

01:41:53.970 --> 01:41:59.250
You are here to serve my needs and nothing more.

01:41:59.649 --> 01:42:02.729
And it's a really good way of... properly pushing

01:42:02.729 --> 01:42:06.329
at that of it's not your money it's my money

01:42:06.329 --> 01:42:10.289
yeah so make my life easier by giving it to me

01:42:10.289 --> 01:42:14.510
kind of kind of thing um i used the word intoxicating

01:42:14.510 --> 01:42:17.149
earlier on but thinking back then it was kind

01:42:17.149 --> 01:42:18.590
of talking about it from the subs perspective

01:42:18.590 --> 01:42:20.590
it's quite intoxicating from the from the from

01:42:20.590 --> 01:42:22.890
my perspective as well even if it is four pound

01:42:22.890 --> 01:42:25.649
for a cup of coffee yeah it's like oh yeah this

01:42:25.649 --> 01:42:28.850
was free because i have a cash machine at home

01:42:28.850 --> 01:42:31.529
that will that will pay for this for me Yeah,

01:42:31.569 --> 01:42:34.189
I have been really surprised by how, despite

01:42:34.189 --> 01:42:36.909
it being like a transactional thing, it is really

01:42:36.909 --> 01:42:39.989
hot. It's really quite sexual. Yeah. I mean,

01:42:40.010 --> 01:42:45.090
it's so strange. And I think the other element...

01:42:45.090 --> 01:42:49.869
There is something about the amorality of it.

01:42:50.109 --> 01:42:53.350
Yeah. You know, I really struggled, like we said

01:42:53.350 --> 01:42:56.170
earlier on, I really struggled when we were first

01:42:56.170 --> 01:42:58.770
talking about it, about the ethics of it. But

01:42:58.770 --> 01:43:01.090
I think something that I've kind of learned recently

01:43:01.090 --> 01:43:05.430
from some of the incredible education that we've

01:43:05.430 --> 01:43:10.970
taken part in is that there is an element of

01:43:10.970 --> 01:43:14.149
my kink which is about being unethical. Yeah.

01:43:14.989 --> 01:43:18.409
Within an ethical and consensual framework, acting

01:43:18.409 --> 01:43:21.729
unethically. That is really, really quite exciting.

01:43:21.909 --> 01:43:29.630
Yeah. It's a phrase that will be etched into

01:43:29.630 --> 01:43:32.810
my brain forever. Something that Ancilla L said

01:43:32.810 --> 01:43:34.750
in one of the classes that we took. Sometimes

01:43:34.750 --> 01:43:37.550
kink is about exonerating yourself from moral

01:43:37.550 --> 01:43:41.829
responsibility. Yeah. So I try my hardest and

01:43:41.829 --> 01:43:43.770
I don't always get it right, but I try my hardest

01:43:43.770 --> 01:43:47.189
to be a good person in the world. But in our

01:43:47.189 --> 01:43:52.979
relationship, I can be it. twat i am allowed

01:43:52.979 --> 01:43:57.300
to be an awful person yeah because strongly encouraged

01:43:57.300 --> 01:43:59.560
yeah in fact because that's what we've agreed

01:43:59.560 --> 01:44:01.819
and that's what we've negotiated that doesn't

01:44:01.819 --> 01:44:04.899
mean it i think it's okay for people to take

01:44:04.899 --> 01:44:07.340
money off other people at the level of society

01:44:07.340 --> 01:44:10.960
in the way that we do within findom but for us

01:44:10.960 --> 01:44:15.899
personally that option to be amoral at best amoral

01:44:15.899 --> 01:44:20.930
um is is something that's really exciting and

01:44:20.930 --> 01:44:22.890
i think there's just something about the the

01:44:22.890 --> 01:44:27.369
filthy nature of money yeah that really kind

01:44:27.369 --> 01:44:30.590
of adds something to that um which i find quite

01:44:30.590 --> 01:44:33.109
exciting which is a weird place to be in given

01:44:33.109 --> 01:44:35.170
how let's say i really struggle with the ethics

01:44:35.170 --> 01:44:37.789
of it because on the face of it it's not right

01:44:37.789 --> 01:44:41.050
that i take money off you it's not there's no

01:44:41.050 --> 01:44:43.130
version at a societal level there's no version

01:44:43.130 --> 01:44:46.560
of that that's okay But in our context, really,

01:44:46.659 --> 01:44:50.180
really exciting. Yeah. And I think probably in

01:44:50.180 --> 01:44:52.739
my experience, the people who are most turned

01:44:52.739 --> 01:44:55.680
on by bad things because they're bad tend to

01:44:55.680 --> 01:44:58.859
be the people who are most concerned with doing

01:44:58.859 --> 01:45:01.260
the right thing as a whole. Like people who have

01:45:01.260 --> 01:45:03.380
a strong sense of ethics and values and morals

01:45:03.380 --> 01:45:06.460
and a really sometimes quite rigid moral compass.

01:45:07.529 --> 01:45:09.649
You need breathing room from that sometimes.

01:45:09.770 --> 01:45:12.449
You need a space to be like, I'm a flawed human

01:45:12.449 --> 01:45:14.869
being and this is where the flaws come out. Yeah.

01:45:15.010 --> 01:45:16.670
I think if you're someone who doesn't really

01:45:16.670 --> 01:45:18.770
give a shit about doing the right thing, you're

01:45:18.770 --> 01:45:20.289
not going to be particularly excited by doing

01:45:20.289 --> 01:45:25.369
the wrong thing. No. It's where, like, being

01:45:25.369 --> 01:45:27.689
a good person, it's not like it's a massive chore

01:45:27.689 --> 01:45:30.250
and a difficulty. I think if you want to be a

01:45:30.250 --> 01:45:31.869
good person, you probably are a good person and

01:45:31.869 --> 01:45:34.029
it's coming pretty naturally as a general rule.

01:45:35.119 --> 01:45:39.039
it still requires you to think about the impact

01:45:39.039 --> 01:45:41.359
of your actions and think about your motivations

01:45:41.359 --> 01:45:44.680
and really sort of examine yourself and do a

01:45:44.680 --> 01:45:46.319
little bit of that overthinking and deep thinking

01:45:46.319 --> 01:45:48.680
that we're prone to yeah and having a space to

01:45:48.680 --> 01:45:51.380
go in this protected space with the consent of

01:45:51.380 --> 01:45:53.159
everyone involved within the framework that we've

01:45:53.159 --> 01:45:56.619
created none of those rules need to apply yeah

01:45:56.619 --> 01:45:58.960
and i don't have to think about it i think that's

01:45:58.960 --> 01:46:03.189
that's why a lot of the time I think that a lot

01:46:03.189 --> 01:46:05.189
of the kinks that a lot of people are drawn to

01:46:05.189 --> 01:46:07.810
are things that they just like because they're

01:46:07.810 --> 01:46:10.630
not right in another context. Yeah. There doesn't

01:46:10.630 --> 01:46:12.250
necessarily have to be a lot of other layers

01:46:12.250 --> 01:46:13.810
to it. There often is, but there doesn't have

01:46:13.810 --> 01:46:16.550
to be. Sometimes it's just hot to do bad things.

01:46:16.890 --> 01:46:19.789
Yeah. And I enjoy you doing bad things to me

01:46:19.789 --> 01:46:25.789
very much. Yeah. Yeah. I know you do. I think

01:46:25.789 --> 01:46:28.189
in a strange kind of way, exploring financial

01:46:28.189 --> 01:46:31.670
domination has... has really helped alongside

01:46:31.670 --> 01:46:35.289
not just from Ansel El but other but particularly

01:46:35.289 --> 01:46:39.750
actually it's okay to hearing people who really

01:46:39.750 --> 01:46:45.130
know their shit say it's okay to enjoy really

01:46:45.130 --> 01:46:48.069
fucked up things yeah I mean you've said it to

01:46:48.069 --> 01:46:51.210
me before I accept that that is the truth but

01:46:51.210 --> 01:46:53.449
kind of hearing that in that wider context in

01:46:53.449 --> 01:46:57.210
that educative context has been a really helpful

01:46:57.210 --> 01:47:01.420
thing and I think exploring financial domination

01:47:01.420 --> 01:47:04.079
because of the associations it has with, like

01:47:04.079 --> 01:47:06.060
you say, with money and the taboo around money,

01:47:06.180 --> 01:47:08.619
I think has really kind of helped me to kind

01:47:08.619 --> 01:47:15.760
of make peace with some of the really quite nasty

01:47:15.760 --> 01:47:18.760
and dark things that we have talked about doing

01:47:18.760 --> 01:47:23.060
and are doing. Yeah. You know, so there's a wider

01:47:23.060 --> 01:47:25.880
benefit for us, I think, for having explored

01:47:25.880 --> 01:47:27.760
financial domination because it's opened that

01:47:27.760 --> 01:47:30.239
door to, well, if I can do that, then what else

01:47:30.239 --> 01:47:33.840
can I do within a consensual and negotiated context,

01:47:34.039 --> 01:47:38.619
obviously. Of course. So yeah, all good. That

01:47:38.619 --> 01:47:41.239
was quite deep, wasn't it? You just thought I

01:47:41.239 --> 01:47:43.800
was going to say, oh, power. No, I thought I

01:47:43.800 --> 01:47:45.520
might get a little bit more from you, but no,

01:47:45.560 --> 01:47:48.819
you went deep. I like it. You like it when I

01:47:48.819 --> 01:47:51.300
go in deep. I certainly do, Mix. We've reached

01:47:51.300 --> 01:47:54.260
the part of the recording where you get to the

01:47:54.260 --> 01:47:56.640
bullet point on the outline that says, Mix, wrap

01:47:56.640 --> 01:48:05.930
up however you want. Fuck's sake. No, no. I need

01:48:05.930 --> 01:48:07.489
to pay more attention to where you're putting

01:48:07.489 --> 01:48:11.250
the S's and the K's. I need to pay more attention

01:48:11.250 --> 01:48:12.989
to where you're putting the S's and the K's in

01:48:12.989 --> 01:48:14.609
the outline because I don't pay attention to

01:48:14.609 --> 01:48:16.850
it. I just go, I just work out the flow of it.

01:48:16.970 --> 01:48:22.649
Yeah. I don't look at who's doing each bit. But

01:48:22.649 --> 01:48:24.329
you're going to be doing your first outline pretty

01:48:24.329 --> 01:48:27.920
soon, which I'm excited for. I am. I know. Got

01:48:27.920 --> 01:48:29.960
an episode coming up in, I believe, three weeks

01:48:29.960 --> 01:48:32.100
about long distance relationships, which Mix

01:48:32.100 --> 01:48:34.960
knows a lot more about than me. So they are doing

01:48:34.960 --> 01:48:39.479
their first outline. So if it's chaotic. So listeners,

01:48:39.520 --> 01:48:41.140
that might be one to skip because it would probably

01:48:41.140 --> 01:48:47.060
be shit. I think one of the things that I am

01:48:47.060 --> 01:48:49.300
taking away from this episode that I didn't necessarily

01:48:49.300 --> 01:48:55.180
expect is actually how a kink that on the...

01:48:58.000 --> 01:49:00.479
The general perception of financial domination

01:49:00.479 --> 01:49:03.180
is that it is quite transactional and it is quite

01:49:03.180 --> 01:49:07.060
surface. It's not that deep. But actually, when

01:49:07.060 --> 01:49:09.060
you really sit down and think about it, especially

01:49:09.060 --> 01:49:10.960
in terms of the way that we've done it, but I

01:49:10.960 --> 01:49:13.619
can imagine for a lot of other people who engage

01:49:13.619 --> 01:49:19.119
in it as well, it actually has a lot to it, a

01:49:19.119 --> 01:49:21.979
lot behind it, a lot that is going on for people

01:49:21.979 --> 01:49:25.560
when they're doing it, which I think can only

01:49:25.560 --> 01:49:28.619
be a good thing. I think that it isn't fair to

01:49:28.619 --> 01:49:32.000
label any kink as being transactional and surface.

01:49:32.220 --> 01:49:34.640
But I think that is probably a perception that

01:49:34.640 --> 01:49:37.399
people have of financial domination. And actually,

01:49:37.439 --> 01:49:39.779
if you're doing it in a thoughtful and considered

01:49:39.779 --> 01:49:42.479
an ethical way, it's really there's a lot there.

01:49:42.560 --> 01:49:46.060
It's quite deep. I agree. I can't imagine it's

01:49:46.060 --> 01:49:48.739
surface level for many people, if any, even if

01:49:48.739 --> 01:49:50.199
they haven't figured out exactly what's going

01:49:50.199 --> 01:49:52.279
on beneath the surface and just go, well, it's

01:49:52.279 --> 01:49:55.039
hot. There will be a reason why that is. Yeah,

01:49:55.079 --> 01:49:57.569
I think. The more we talk about it, the more

01:49:57.569 --> 01:50:01.590
layers that I spot in it with money being such

01:50:01.590 --> 01:50:04.989
a major driving force in everyone's lives. Playing

01:50:04.989 --> 01:50:07.890
with it is inevitably going to feel pretty heavy

01:50:07.890 --> 01:50:10.949
in some ways. Yeah. But also very lighthearted

01:50:10.949 --> 01:50:12.529
and silly sometimes in the ways that we do it.

01:50:12.569 --> 01:50:15.189
It's got nuance and it's got different shades

01:50:15.189 --> 01:50:18.069
to it. And I really like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

01:50:18.390 --> 01:50:22.810
The little flying money emoji that I put whenever

01:50:22.810 --> 01:50:25.760
you send me the Texcent mix. Yeah. A little flying

01:50:25.760 --> 01:50:28.640
emoji, flying dollars emoji. Or sometimes a little

01:50:28.640 --> 01:50:33.979
pig. Yes. So there you go. That's us done, I

01:50:33.979 --> 01:50:35.699
think. I think we have covered everything that

01:50:35.699 --> 01:50:38.199
we could possibly have covered, Mix. And quite

01:50:38.199 --> 01:51:03.800
a bit more. Oh, yes. Bye. See you next time.