Welcome to Don't Scare the Newbies, a podcast
where we talk kink, raw and unfiltered. I'm Carizel,
a lifestyle submissive in a 24 -7 dynamic who
likes their kink heavy, intense and scary. And
I'm Ed, Carizel's dominant who knows how to deliver
all of the above. And today we're going to be
talking about interrogation play, specifically
the interrogation scene that we did two days
ago. We've completely disrupted our release schedule
because we wanted to talk about this one right
now. It was just that good. We have ways of making
you talk. You did not though. No, no, I did not.
Thanks for that. So we're just sneakily slotting
this episode in, aren't we? Sneakily slotting.
Yeah, it's either going to be episode five or
six, depending on how quickly I edit. And then
it's going to disrupt all references to on the
last episode week that we have done forever.
Yeah. But that's okay. And that's okay. We're
okay with that. We like a bit of chaos. Yes,
yes. Yes, we do. But yeah, I think there's a
couple of reasons why we wanted to do it this
way. First, people seem to be really interested
in this. tiktok and my blog people are really
curious about this scene and i think a lot of
people in general interrogation play isn't something
you see a lot of it's not something that's done
a lot um so it's something that there's a lot
of curiosity about and also we at the very least
wanted to record this episode really soon after
we did it while the experience is still fresh
in our minds yes because i'm already finding
that my memory of it was quite distorted so the
sooner that we talk about it the uh the better
the better yes and i think there is a little
bit of kind of processing in it as well which
is helpful like talking about stuff to nobody's
surprise listening to this to nobody's surprise
listening to this podcast communication and talking
about stuff is really really important yes and
i think there is also something in that as well
about well if we're going to talk about it we
might as well do it with microphones yeah and
we've been talking about it a lot over the last
couple of days but it's going to be really good
for us to both have a proper conversation about
what the fuck we just did yes what the hell just
happened yeah um so the starting point of this
was actually a good few months ago i think you
looked up didn't you mates when was it that we
bought the projectors because that's roughly
when planning started uh beginning of july beginning
of july it was when we ordered them yeah yeah
so we've been planning this scene for about two
and a half months and it started out very much
as I can't remember what inspired it, but it
was me that had the idea of using projectors
to essentially turn a room into a wall of screens
and use those as a kind of overwhelm over stimulation
setup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember whether
it started out as an interrogation or whether
it was just an idea of just completely messing
with you for a period of time. I think the very,
very first thought of it that I had was just...
just fuck with me like let's do some psychological
torture and mix in some physical torture but
very rapidly after having that idea because we
previously talked about we want to do some interrogation
play at some point that's something we wanted
to learn and explore but okay so this is perfect
If we're coming up with something that is actual
genuine torture, let's use it for its intended
purpose. And then we bounce those ideas around
over that whole time because I know you certainly
thought that potentially starting it without
the interrogation element might be a kind of
safer, gentler entry to it. Yeah, I think so.
And I think that was more about whenever we've
tried new things in the past, we've done it in
that kind of deliberately experimental way. Like
when we've done waterboarding, we just gave it
a go. And we had a bit of a laugh about it and
there wasn't really any kind of aim with it.
So I think initially I kind of took that logical
approach to it because I thought it was the safer
way of testing it out. Which was completely smart
and completely reasonable. I very much did the
typical submissive thing of just hit me with
your car in this case. lock me in there for 24
hours pride me of food and water like do everything
you can possibly think of to me make it as bad
as possible and it's going to be interrogation
and then a lot of the the planning over the last
couple of months has been you trying to negotiate
me down and me trying to negotiate you up until
we found a spot in the middle that felt comfortable
for both of us yeah yeah yeah um yes there was
a little bit of that and one one example of that
was we were talking about how to make the room
dark Because, you know, I was like, oh, we could
put a curtain over the window to block out the
light from that. And I could do stuff with the
door to block out the light from that. And you
said, well, we could do it overnight. And you
had sleep deprivation in with it. And I was like,
maybe not. Maybe, maybe, maybe not the first
time. Maybe not the first time. We do it at night.
That's a good idea. Yeah. But let's not keep
you up for. 24 hours. Yeah. And I'm not sure
how we can practically plan that. So you get
sleep. Yeah. I don't want you to be sleep deprived
as well. Like the, the torture is slowly going
insane. Yeah. You need like a little team of
you or something to rotate. That's, that's one
for future. Yeah. Yes. And there was definitely
no, at least I certainly hope it wasn't ever
coming across as pressure towards you. Like I
expect this to be as bad as possible. It was
kind of giving you that permission that I know
is sometimes quite a scary thing to receive.
for a sadist of like no if you want to fuck me
up you can fuck me up yeah and we found sort
of what felt like a comfortable amount of fucking
me up yes and to be fair those negotiations were
still going on right up until what like two three
days before the scene yeah i was saying four
hours you were saying two i was saying i want
the interrogation element you were saying i'm
not so sure about that yeah right at the point
that we were buying the last sort of bits of
equipment making those final adjustments to your
list of activities things like that we were still
in discussion around that yeah i think something
that was really interesting was you you had the
thought that you probably wanted to remove the
interrogation aspect of it and just do it as
torture because you thought that it would be
safer to do that and give me a safe word for
the scene yeah than to do it as an interrogation
yeah where I had the same concerns about safety,
but the opposite strategy for it were actually
because I haven't had a safe word in about a
year. And I think I would find it quite difficult
to do at this point. Yeah. And I think I would
drop harder from doing it because I would actually
feel like I failed. And I know it's never a failure
to safe word. It's not. But it's always something
that's tended to trigger drop for me when I am
in a relationship where a safe word is part of
it. Using my safe word tends to hit me pretty
hard. But if we set out for it to be an interrogation
because that was a game, whether I win or lose,
we've done it right. I haven't failed. I've lost
a game, which one of us was always going to.
So I think if I really had reached a breaking
point where I couldn't handle it anymore, it
would have been less difficult for me. to give
up the information yeah and i could also do it
staggered i could potentially buy myself a bit
of a breather by giving you partial information
which i didn't in the end but i had that option
so that was why i thought that was better and
more fun and more fun yeah yeah in retrospect
you were right i think as soon as you said it
i was like yeah no that makes sense um i can
definitely see the logic of it so that's what
we went for and as well i think part of the last
minute negotiations that we were doing in the
days leading up to it was because we'd done a
scene last week that had some unexpected outcomes
for us that hit you much, much harder than either
of us would have ordinarily expected. Yeah. So
I think there was a little bit of that in there
as well about, okay, that's happened, we seem
to have got past that, but how much of this interrogation
scene is now a risk of that stuff resurfacing?
Yeah, I think there's two things that wasn't
there. There was one, we were worried that it
might be too close to that. And I might still
be a little bit fragile and needing to sort of
take that into account in risk management. But
also that we'd had a learning experience from
our assumption that I am just resilient. I just
bounce back from everything we do. And that was
our first time experiencing me not really like
I did bounce back, but it took me longer. So
that made us probably a little bit more risk
averse than we have been because of realizing
like, like, oh, shit, that can happen. I didn't
want to modify anything about what we were doing
for the interrogation on that basis. I was comfortable
with accepting the risk that, you know, if I
drop, I drop. If something comes up with my mental
health, I'll work through it. I have coping strategies
for that. It's okay. But I was very conscious
I didn't want to put you in a position. of feeling
like you were overextending yourself beyond what
was comfortable if you had that worry in your
head about me yeah yeah that was going to put
a lot of psychological strain on you which we
we try to mitigate for as much as we can um so
i was completely open to if you wanted to scale
things down because of that yeah um like i pushed
back on not wanting to do it as an interrogation
because i genuinely felt an interrogation was
a safer bet But I said, you know, aside from
that, whatever length you feel comfortable with,
anything you want to take off the list of activities,
do it. And when it actually came down to it,
the only thing you did was removed like one specific
thing from the list of activities. And other
than that, you kind of went into it as you'd
originally intended to. And we settled on three
hours for the time. Yeah, I think so. It's always
difficult to tell. Did I unconsciously go a little
bit easier than perhaps I might have done? I
don't think I did. No, it certainly didn't feel
easy. It'd be a bit terrifying. If that was me
going easy. I guess if we do it again, we find
out. We'll find out. We'll find out, yeah. So,
yeah, I think you're right. We were negotiating
about it up until, including on the day, you
know, minor details because I spent a good chunk
of Saturday doing the setup for it. Yeah. Some
of those things kind of came up those last minutes,
sort of. safety things last minute checks yeah
and last minute ideas because you were obviously
as you were setting it up you were testing all
the tech that you were using yeah like oh it
can do this because i specifically asked you
about being left in the dark didn't i you didn't
which we know is a thing that you do not like
yeah yeah i'm quite quite scared of the dark
and And I will get into this as we talk more
about the scene, but it was never fully pitch
black. There's a street light out the back of
the house and we haven't invested in blackout
curtains. We figured night time was good enough.
And you didn't have the landing light off. So
it was a little bit coming around the crack in
the door, but it was dark enough to be unsettling.
And he sat in with me like, can I do that? Yeah.
It made me panic, but yeah. I had already thought
about doing things in the dark. the reason for
asking about it was making sure that it wasn't
going to be something that was triggering yeah
you were being sort of a little bit more cautious
because of what happened yeah yeah yeah leaving
him in the dark and fucking with the lights and
stuff like that was already yeah was always on
the list but it was just that yeah that extra
last minute check but yeah it was a conversation
over a long period of time more and more detail
as we got closer to it and i had a firmer idea
about what we were going to be doing yeah i quite
enjoyed i mean Some of the reasons why we were
doing some of the safety check -ins, some of
the additional conversations that we had in the
couple of days before, I would have preferred
not to have had to have. Yeah. But we had them
because we needed to. But it was a fun thing
to think about and to plan and to get my evil
torturer vibe going on. How can I destroy the
pig? It was like a nice little couple's project
as well. Yeah, yeah. both very involved in it
there was a lot that you kept me in the dark
about but um but the actual the concept the aim
the general setup that was all very collaborative
but then what you were left was what you were
going to do with that setup that you had with
that vibe that you had to work within with that
environment that we're creating yeah how are
you going to play in toy box and you yeah you
came up with some shit yes i did yes i did um
Should we talk about that? Yeah, let's give us
an overview of all the horrors you inflicted.
All the horrors. I'll just grab my notebook because
I kept a diary of what we did. Never beating
the sex nerd allegations. Never beating the sex
nerd allegations. No, no, never. Nor would I
want to. So we're not going to go through minute
by minute of the whole interrogation. In today's
episode, I think if people want a really detailed
account of it, you've written an incredible blog
post about that, available on carital .com. Thank
you. And that one, in case you're listening to
this in the far distant future when there are
many blog posts to scroll through, the blog post
is called Not Friends, Ain't That the Worst Thing
You've Ever Heard? And the title will make sense
when you read it. So the interrogation technically
started Tuesday morning, I think, when you were
given the window, a four -day window, in which
to break a rule. Do it on one of the surveillance
cameras we have in the house. And the object
of the interrogation is for me to get evidence
of the rule break. And if I get you to reveal
that information to me, I punish you for it because
you've broken the rule. Yep. And if you don't
give me the information, you don't get punished
for it. We started a little bit before seven
o 'clock where I kind of suddenly started saying,
you've been sketchy all day and been a bit weird
and kind of being a bit of a dick about it. And
then get you into the office upstairs, attach
you to the chair and start berating you with.
questions and telling you to tell me what rule
you've broken what you've done yes stuff like
that and where and when so you can write the
evidence yeah so i could go and have a look on
the videos yeah um so throughout the whole of
the interrogation uh you were strapped to a chair
in a more or less empty room there were various
points where we had three projectors set up which
were playing three different porn videos on a
loop sort of really fast cupping audio the idea
is to orient you with that there was also a lot
that i was doing with noises through a speaker
that we had set up using the camera that we had
set up so that i could monitor you to also talk
to you break you from afar because that camera's
got a speaker in it so you can talk through and
also a siren that you can set off yes which you
did yep um and also um messing around with the
lighting so either leaving you in complete darkness
or because it's a smart bulb that we have in
there using different colors flashing but alongside
that there was a lot of physical stuff going
on uh so i was punching you and slapping you
and pinching you and hitting you with some of
the worst of the impact things that we have yeah
the really stingy thing you used a quartery pen
i used a medical stapler on you at one point
um there was waterboarding and bagging in there
All the highlights. All the highlights. And then
there was also a fair bit of kind of psychological
stuff. At one point, I just ran up, banged on
the door as loud as I could and then ran away
again. Yeah. Just to make you jump. At one point,
I ran in with a gas mask and I was yelling in
your face. Different styles of questioning or
different ways of asking you the questions, sometimes
softly, sometimes berating you, sometimes in
a really mean way. And then some more emotional
sadism. type thing so i was um questioning your
values and your worth i was talking about how
you betrayed me and you clearly weren't the person
that i had fallen in love with and how could
you do this to us so a lot of those really kind
of emotionally straight up dumped me halfway
through yeah yeah i was getting to that that
kind of real emotional manipulation and yeah
and then i i said you know This is it for us
if you don't tell me. We can't be in a relationship
because I can't trust you. Why would you lie
to me sort of thing? Yeah. And, you know, left
the room saying something like, well, it was
nice while it lasted. Yeah. And then just leaving
him. Yeah. To do all of that. deal with that
a bit I can't remember I forgot to put in the
blog post as well is the part when you came in
and started talking about how I was such a hypocrite
for talking on my blog and on TikTok and stuff
about people needing to communicate and accused
me of being just bullshit for likes which was
incredible yeah that's what we should have called
our podcast bullshit for likes yeah Yeah. I'd
forgotten about that, actually. I'd forgotten
that it says that. I think it's probably a bit
like you. There's probably a lot that I've forgotten,
even though I've written it down. And then as
we start talking about some of the highlights
and most interesting parts for us, I'm sure we'll
bring out some more specifics from the scene.
But yeah, it was a brutal three hours. Well done.
It was, yes. And you won. I won? You won. You
didn't give over the information. No. It took
me an hour and a half to say a single word. Yes,
it did. which really threw me a little bit, because
that was not what I was expecting. I was expecting
you to be stubborn and belligerent, but I expected
you to be verbally stubborn and belligerent,
not just fucking silent. Yeah, and that was a
decision I made pretty last minute on the day.
It was mid -morning, and I was like, I have done
no research, and I've signed myself up for three
hours. interrogation and i know what mix is like
like this is not going to be easy i should probably
like google this i googled how to resist interrogation
and torture and basically what i found was you
cannot you cannot be unbreakable with torture
anyone will break if they're tortured for long
enough so all that was to find out was whether
three hours was enough for me or not um but that
generally like when people are taught techniques
to resist interrogation a big focus on it is
trying not to speak so either saying nothing
or only giving sort of the information you've
been authorized to give and then shutting the
fuck up yeah um because if you're drawn into
conversation that's how people can manipulate
you you're not going to be smart enough to see
every possible version of manipulation coming
yeah so it's better to just not engage with the
interrogator at all and so that's the approach
that i took and i didn't warn you i was going
to do that and i could see how aggravated you
were when you realized that was my game yeah
yeah i was really Because I had done a little
bit of research as well. Yeah. And a couple of
the things that had stood out for me was, I guess
exactly what you say, kind of trying to develop
some kind of rapport with the person, trying
to get some conversation going. But also one
interesting approach that I saw was asking rapid
fire questions that require a very short answer.
So almost getting you into the habit of either
saying yes or no. Yeah. And then dropping the
question. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, that sounds
like a really good idea. But it only works if
you fucking speak. Yeah. Which you didn't. I
did not. For, like I say, almost an hour and
a half. And what were your first words to me?
I can do this all day, miss. Well, it wasn't
quite so jolly. No. And I don't think you said
mix either. No, I was answering your question
then, so I had to, miss. No, in the moment I
just said, I can do this all day. And I don't
think I said it in a jolly way at all. I think
I struggled to get it out, but. You did not.
You were not in a happy place when he said that,
which is reasonable. Yeah. So that's a quick
synopsis. But if you want to know the detail
of it, head over to the blog. It's a really good,
it's a really, really good piece. One of your
best. Thank you. So I think one of the things
I'm most interested in is how you managed to
get through the three hours, how you managed
to kind of stay anchored to that idea that you
are going to be this stubborn and you're not
going to sleep and you're not going to break.
Yeah. It was important to keep myself out of
my head because I'm prone to spiraling just about
life in general. I get some negative feedback
at work or someone's a bit short with me in a
text and I'm in an anxiety loop. So if you're
putting me through psychological torture, it's
a given that's going to happen. So I, on my sort
of like last minute strategy plan, I decided
that I needed to find something that would. help
stop me overthinking like occupy my brain with
something simple and also something that would
help pass time because time was the one thing
that was going to fuck me up like i said everyone
breaks under torture over a long enough period
of time that period of time is different for
every person it depends what's happening to you
but everyone will break so i needed to alter
my perception of time because i could not alter
the reality of it so i thought about the things
that help me pass time normally when i'm bored
or stressed or whatever's going on and it's music
listening to music i obviously didn't have the
option to listen to music apart from the god
awful industrial noise that you're playing through
um but i can listen to music in my head and i
can say i can't sing at all but i can i can make
noises with my mouth so over that day i listen
through stuff that i have positive associations
with that is generally upbeat and that i know
really well there's a lot of music that i can
sing along to but if you don't start me off with
the first line i can't yeah yeah So I needed
songs that I wouldn't forget any of the lyrics,
even under stress. And I settled on I'm Trying
Not Friends by Maisie Peters and Cruel Summer
by Taylor Swift. All my two songs going in. And
my plan was anytime you weren't in the room,
I would be singing on repeat. I would start with
one of the songs, repeat it until I was sick
of it and then switch to the other. And I would
do that continuously. I would use that as a rough
indicator of time to occupy my brain and to self
-soothe. And that's what I did. Right. That's
what I did the whole way through. And my intention
was for you to never know that I was doing that.
I knew you would see my lips moving. But I would
make sure that I was at a low enough volume that
it was covered by whatever sound was going on
in the room. And that if you asked me what I
was doing, I wouldn't tell you. For two reasons.
One, I didn't want you to fuck with it. Like,
if you'd figured out what I was doing, you could
have potentially found out a way to make that
harder for me to do. And secondly, because it
gave me, like, a second layer to break. So if
you were questioning me, hurting me, doing all
the stuff you're doing to try and wear me down,
and I felt like I just had to give you something,
that was one more thing I could give you before
we got to the real shit. I could be like, do
you want to know a secret? Do you want to know
how I've been coping with this so far? And I
could distract you with that as my plan. And
it never got to the point of us actually engaging
in that. But it did come to a point, obviously,
very close to the end of the scene, where I started
doing it while you were in the room. because
I needed to cope while you were in the room because
it was getting pretty bad. Like at this point,
I thought I still had about an hour left and
actually we were into the last 10 minutes, which
I didn't realise. But there was a lot going on.
At this point, I'd got burns, staples in my thigh.
You were beating me over the areas that you already
severely fucked up. You were screaming in my
face. You know, I was drenched in piss and water,
shivering. You were caning my boobs. And I was
like, I'm just going to start fully singing now.
Yeah. And they can know that I'm doing that.
That's fine because that's going to help me deal
with it. Yeah. It's a really smart idea. It's
a really clever way of grounding yourself in
that really difficult situation. And I did know
that you were doing something because I asked
you about it. Yeah. Because I could hear you
mumbling something because the little surveillance
camera we've got has a microphone. Yeah. I could
hear you mumbling away. Yeah. I was sat with
the phone volume turned right up and the phone
right next to my ear trying to work out what
it was you were doing. Because I thought, if
this fucker is mumbling the answers that I want,
I swear to God, I will throw them out of the
fucking window. It was nice. Not friends, somewhere
in between, because you're awful and I miss you
and I killed you in my dreams last night. That's
what you're missing. But it's a really... So,
yeah, it was obviously really effective because
it clearly helped you. And it frustrated me.
Yeah. Because you wouldn't talk to me. Nope.
But you were quite happily mumbling away while
I wasn't in the room. And then when you started
singing when I was in the room, I realised that's
what you had been doing previously. Yeah. But
then I was like, oh, I'm getting somewhere. Finally,
after two hours and 45 minutes, I'm getting somewhere
because the pretense is slipping. yeah so i think
that that that image that you were trying to
give me of being stubborn and resilient and raw
yeah was clearly starting to yeah all the way
and you were getting somewhere yeah to be fair
you were like you would you didn't get me there
in three hours but i don't think i could have
done another hour yeah you know i had it in my
head at that point that was still an hour to
go and i would not have made it good That makes
me feel a little bit better. You did a good job.
You were up against someone who is ridiculously
stubborn and picked a good strategy and stuck
to it pretty consistently. Yeah, it was a really
good strategy. Got to give you props for that.
So if anyone here is concerned they might get
tortured at some point, I highly recommend Maisie
Peters and Taylor Swift. Learning to song. Yeah.
Mumbling to yourself. If it's going to be more
than three hours, you might need more than two
songs. I think I was starting to exhaust the
effectiveness of them. yeah yeah but you said
something interesting when we were talking about
it afterwards about the point at which you swapped
songs yeah so my original plan was to use one
until it stopped feeling effective and then switch
yeah um but i thought that that would come like
it started getting boring or like my thoughts
would start creeping in yeah point where i switched
because i started with um i'm trying which is
a breakup song and and the reason i picked that
is because it's the song that gave me a sense
of defiance and resilience during the the breakup
that i went through a couple years ago yeah um
as well as me knowing it really well i was like
this is This is something that I know makes me
feel strong. It lets me get some anger out in
a way that's relatively healthy. But the point
where I stopped using that during the interrogation
was when you did the fake breakup. It's like,
I am not going to be able to self -soothe with
a breakup song after I've just been dumped. And
I knew it wasn't real, but still, it was a lot.
So that's why I switched to Cruel Summer. um
which i picked for almost entirely opposite reasons
it's a really strong positive memory i associate
with going to the eras tour with you it makes
me remember like really happy times feeling really
loved up feeling really like just this rush of
positive emotion but i'm gonna need some of that
you know can i bottle that and drink it that's
what i need so i switched to cruel summer at
that point and then by the end i was alternating
back and forth between them again just to keep
things fresh keep things yeah yeah i think it's
a really it was it was just fascinating to me
that that's that's you had to make that change
because of what was happening yeah in the um
in the scene yeah um which again really really
smart okay i need to pause okay um because having
taken my jumper off fucking freezing i am currently
observing the sex nerd the anxious dog sugar
uh putting their t -shirt on over their jumper
so that they can attach their microphone to their
t -shirt because that's easier but so they're
not too cold sitting without their jumper which
is very logical but also very strange and they
can't argue with me because they have no microphone
on right now it's fantastic cheeky little shit
anyway What are we talking about? So as I was
saying, apart from right near the end, I was
using the music to cope with the negative space,
the periods of time when you were out of the
room. Though those weren't exactly downtime for
me. There was a lot going on with the lights
and the noises. It was at least a break from
the relentless physical assaults. But those were
the times where the fear grew up more. But that
must have also been a really interesting time
for you because while I was still very much in
the scene. you were stepping away from that mix
um and having to return to your plan and cope
alone as well you were in isolation just as i
was so how was how was all that for you mix um
it was it wasn't in any way what i expected it
to be and i think there's probably a couple probably
lots of reasons for that um but i had this idea
that i would periodically enter the room do some
evil stuff to you and then i would leave and
i would come back downstairs And I would play
my silly little word game or something. So I
thought, with the exception of the time that
I'm in the room with you, probably going to be
quite chill. But it wasn't like that at all.
And I think I put quite a lot of thought and
effort into what would happen when I wasn't in
the room. So thinking about how to use light
and dark and the flashing red and white lights,
how to use the projections, how to use the speaker,
how to use the microphone on the camera and stuff
like that. So I could talk to you. I had a playlist
of some truly. awful apparently music um we should
probably not say who that was because they'd
be so offended not my thing at all if you like
it that's great and i can i'm being unfair i
can see why some white people would like it but
when it's being blasted at nearly full volume
yeah it is not pleasant yeah it was sort of like
harsh noise like yeah yeah so there was a lot
of kind of messing around with that going on
when i wasn't in the scene but also i kind of
became acutely aware that I needed to make sure
that you were okay. Yeah. As okay as you were
ever going to be. So a lot of the time when I
was kind of out of the room, I was actually just
looking at the camera. Yeah. It was a really
strange thing that I had the volume loud enough
that I could have heard what was going on if
something was going on. Yeah. But I couldn't
stop watching it. I couldn't not be making sure
that you were okay. Yeah. So there's quite a
bit of time spent doing that, but also kind of
setting up for the next bit. Yeah. Because going
into it, I was a little bit worried that I didn't
have a really detailed plan. I had a list of
like 25, I think, different things that were
on the table to do to you during the scene. But
I hadn't timed it and I hadn't thought about,
well, I'll do this bit first and then I'll do
that bit second and I'll do that bit after that.
So it was quite an emergent thing. Yeah. I knew
how it was going to start. I knew I was going
to... get you upstairs, question you for a bit,
turn all the lights off and just leave you in
the dark and then come back and do some of the
stuff that you were probably more expecting me
to do. So hitting you with some stuff, turn the
projectors on. But I was kind of making it up
as I went along. Beyond that, I was piecing it
together on the fly. Yeah, I think we were both
quite sort of reactive to each other. Yeah. With
adapting. strategy so i obviously changed how
i was using the music to cope based on what you
did but also like the the point where i said
i can do this all day was not that i broke and
couldn't be quiet it was that i realized it was
going to benefit me more psychologically to make
a show of resistance at that point than to just
stay quiet yeah i was starting to feel worn down
and getting more and more kind of emotional and
broken and tired i was like at this point staying
quiet doesn't feel like what i want to do what
i want to do in this moment is show them that
i don't give a fuck Yeah. Even though I very
much did. Yeah. So, yeah, I think there was a
lot of that for you as well, of sort of what
you were planning to do to me and what order
and what intensity and how long for and things
was very adaptable based on how I was reacting
and what seemed to be working and what wasn't.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And seeing your reaction helped
with that as well. So I was surprised by how
much the flashing lights seemed to affect you.
Yeah. They were flashing between quite a dark
red and a really bright white. Yeah. Like as
bright as it gets. And I kind of knew logically
that that seems like a thing you would do if
you were wanting to torture someone. But I was
surprised by how much it seemed to affect you.
It was very disorienting. Yeah, I think I was
worse than being in the dark. Once I got used
to being in the dark, I was coping with it. I
could deal with that. The red and white flashing
lights, it made my vision start to distort around
things. I feel like the edges of things would
sort of wibble. And when you came in, there was
like halos around you and stuff. It was very
unsettling. It was a good choice. So I started
to use that a little bit more than I probably
thought I might. And then, you know, what led
up to the fake breakup, that happened over a
couple of visits. Yeah. Two or three visits into
the room. Yeah. I kind of talked about that sort
of thing. And I could see, no matter how defiant
you were being and no matter how stubborn you
were being, I could see that that bothered you.
Yeah. You know, I was like, all right. we'll
pick away at that um because actually a fake
breakup wasn't part of the plan yeah the emotional
state is being a shit to you saying awful things
to you undermining you and all of that kind of
thing um but going as far as saying this is it
for us wasn't part of the original plan yeah
so being adaptive adaptable in that way i think
um probably made it more effective yeah but meant
it was quite draining and quite tiring to kind
of be constantly thinking about what am I going
to do next and then what am I going to do after
that sort of thing, trying to plan it out as
you go, was a lot more intense than I thought
it would be. And looking back on it, I don't
know why I thought it wouldn't be an intense
thing to do, but I was very much in the idea,
well, I'll be in there for 15 minutes and then
I'll be here for 15 minutes playing on my phone,
it's fine, you know. Yeah. I think that was probably
a little bit naive. I think it's one of those
things that was always hard to predict because
I think we did talk about this sort of on the
day of that neither of us were really sure what
your time down here was going to be like, whether
you would sort of be in that headspace the whole
time or whether it would feel like a break from
the scene for you. Yeah. And we found out. Yeah.
It was definitely a break from the headspace.
So I didn't come down kind of still in that evil
interrogator role going, right, what can I do
next? fuck this person up and yeah talk to me
i was it was actually quite cold and calculating
if i think about it and like just sitting and
thinking okay so what's the next logical step
yeah so a different version of the headspace
whereas when i came into the room i was like
full on in your face shouting at you kind of
repeating the questions being all mean and dominant
standing over you and getting into your space
whereas as soon as i closed the door it was like
right now i need to just be a normal person and
think about what the next step in my unhinged
plan is. So for me, it felt like quite a long
three hours because there was always something
going on. It seemed to really stretch out. You
know, there were times when I kind of came out
of the room and came back downstairs and checked
the time. I was like, I was only in there for
10 minutes. I did quite a lot in that 10 minutes,
but that was only 10 minutes. A slightly strange
perception of time. for me but for you it must
have been wild yeah incredibly distorted we agreed
going into it mix that you were not going to
truthfully tell me how long i had to go at any
point no um we also agreed that any level of
deception from either of us was on the table
um so i was i knew time was going to be very
hard to keep track of and i obviously i had the
technique I was trying to use with the music,
but that was only helpful when you weren't in
the room. And my perception of time when you
were in the room was really screwy right from
the start, because you would think that when
really awful stuff is happening to you and you're
being beaten and water -ported and all of this,
you'd expect it to feel like it's forever, even
though it's only a couple of minutes, but it
was actually the opposite. There's been things
that I've sort of looked back at the notes and
looked back at the pictures that we pulled from
the camera, where you were in the room for 15,
20, even more than that, minutes at a time, that
in my head, you were in there for two minutes.
The waterboarding I thought was only about three
pours in about two minutes, and it's 15 minutes
of video footage. Stuff like that really threw
my perception of time off. You obviously deliberately
messed with that, so by not starting the projectors
from the first minute of the scene, I couldn't
use the videos really to time where I was at.
I couldn't sort of go, well, that looks like
it's a half -hour video, so six of them is three
hours. You were turning them off at random points
and putting them back on. Because you knew, didn't
you? I knew you'd made an hour and a half of
confirmation for each one, yeah. Each one looped
fully. That was three hours. Yeah. And you also
did come in and tell me that the time was completely
different at one point. Yeah. I'd been keeping
track that I had in my head. I'd done about 90
minutes. And when I've looked at your notes and
looked at the cameras afterwards, it was pretty
much bang on. It was literally like halfway through.
I thought I was halfway through. But you came
into the room and were like, do you want to know
how long it's been? And I was just trying not
to show that I was like, yeah. Yeah. And you
told me it'd been 45 minutes. And I knew that
if the number was 45, you wouldn't be telling
me it because that's one thing we'd agree. And
I knew that we'd agreed you could lie about it.
And I knew that I was pretty confident it was
about an hour and a half, certainly well over
an hour. But none of that mattered in the moment.
In the moment, I was like, oh my God, it's only
been 45 minutes. Oh my God, what if it's only
been 45 minutes? What if it's even less than
45 minutes? Big, full -on sobbing breakdown for
what felt like forever while you were standing
there laughing in my face. And that was the point
where I was like, I need to get my shit together.
Stop crying about this. And that was when I said
I can do this all day. But yeah, it's only been
45 minutes. All right. Fine. Back on. I'll do
another three hours, four hours, whatever you
want. And that was one point where my time perception
got really, really screwy. The next one, though,
was somewhere between there. Like after that,
after I calmed down, I was like, no, I'm pretty
sure I was right. It's an hour and a half. Yeah.
Somewhere between there and the end of the scene,
I lost a bunch of time because 10 minutes before
the scene was over, I thought I had an hour left
to go. I was like, I've worked this out from
how many times I've gone through my songs, from
how much time I think they've spent in the room,
from where we're at in the videos, I think I'm
two hours in and I've got an hour left. And I
don't know how an hour and 20 minutes in my head
became half an hour. So something was clearly
going very wrong with my perception of reality
there, which is not surprising considering some
of the things that were going on in that hour
and a half. Like that hour and a half is what
included the waterboarding. Both times he poured
piss all over my head. The boob caning, the burns,
all really intense stuff happened in that second
half. And I think that's why my ability to understand
the concept of time. yeah to help and obviously
that was deliberate yeah you know telling you
you'd only been in there for 45 minutes just
as it was starting to really ramp up was was
absolutely the goal was to throw you off and
and make you feel like you were only just starting
which was fun i suppose an interesting variation
on that would have been to tell you the truth
yeah And kind of mess with your perception that
way, because we agreed that I wouldn't give you
safety time checks. Yeah. So that you knew where
you were in the process. Yeah. But I guess that
doesn't stop me just telling you. Yeah. Yeah,
that would be a good trick. Just as another way
of fucking with you. Yeah. The problem with that
is, though, either you'd have had to do it quite
early for it to be a short enough time to be
alarming, or you'd have had to do it quite late,
at which point it's just going to be reassuring.
So early on, I would have probably had a pretty
accurate estimate and it wouldn't have surprised
me. Later on, I'd have been more likely to be
way off, but you'd have probably been actually
making me feel better. True. Would have been
a tricky one to get right. Tricky one to get
right. So yeah, telling you you're only 45 minutes
in, that's just a fun thing to do. And to watch
you try and, again, you see it on your face of
trying to work out whether what I said was true.
Yeah. Trying to work out how you felt about it,
if it was true. And then that kind of defiant,
I could do this all day. Yeah. Yeah. It was interesting
to watch that play out. I think the worst part
of losing track of time for me was the end, the
very end, because I got it in my head that I
still had about an hour left. Yeah, yeah. When
your phone alarm went off and I immediately thought
they've set like a two minute alarm or something
to set off here. Yeah. Fuck with me. So none
of that. You were like, you've won. it's over
you've done the three hours and i was like no
yeah i've been fucking with the alarms so i do
not trust you so you showed me the time on your
phone and it was literally when you showed it
to me it was 9 59 i think we must have started
like just before seven it's 9 59 i saw it turn
to 10 o 'clock yeah and i started like full -on
like laughing like proper manic laughter like
absolute insanity you could tell my brain was
a bit frazzled And I had about 30 seconds of
relief laughing like that. And then I suddenly
thought, but they could have messed with their
phone settings, changed the time zone that they're
in, something like that. And I started accusing
you. I was like, you're lying. I know you're
lying. I became the interrogator. You were fucked
with the time zone on your phone. And you were
just there like, no, baby boy. Just rolling your
eyes, turning off the projectors and putting
the lights back on and unlocking all of my things.
And I was sat there in my chair, proper side
-eyeing. When's it coming? When's the horrible
surprise coming? when are you going to start
beating the shit out of me again because I did
not believe you and it was like then you took
a picture of me and I remember we'd agreed you
were going to take a picture at the end so I
was like maybe and then I got out of the room
once I was out of the room I was like probably
but I don't think it completely fully sunk in
until I was in the shower to be honest I was
like they wouldn't be letting me have a hot shower
if it was going to continue which is yeah yeah
that was that was so strange And it was like,
it floored me for a minute. I was like, I don't
know how to get, I don't know how to convince
them. And I had that momentary panic of, my God,
what have I done to them? You've broken the pig.
Literally broken the pig. So all I could think
to do was do the things that I said we would
do, which is I said I would take a picture when
you were done. I said I would unlock you from
the top down. So I took your collar off. I took
your cuffs off. I took the ankle restraints off.
Yeah. And I gave you a hug. Yeah. i was like
this is all i can do right now yeah i had no
point in me repeatedly saying it's fine it's
over you've won it's fine it's over because that's
just going to play into the i am fucking with
you yeah mentality yeah and i just needed a minute
for it to sink in i'm all right now yeah but
probably what didn't help and one of the one
of the one of the daftest things that i did was
right at the end because that last 20 minutes
i was kind of trying to maintain that kind of
and trying to question you more and more. Yeah.
I can't remember exactly what I said, but I said
something like, I've got no choice now. You've
done this to yourself. You've got no choice.
You're kind of going at you like that and saying
you've fucked it now. Yeah. I'm stormed out of
the room. Yeah. And the idea, what I was trying
to create there was that kind of sense of, holy
shit, they've done all of this stuff to me. What
possibly could there be? Which works. That is
worse than this. As soon as I got out of the
room, I was like, why did I say that? There's
two minutes left and I have no idea what to do.
I didn't have anything that was worse than what
I'd already done. Yeah. So what am I going to
go back in and do? So I think I just came back
in and hit you with the rubber strap again. Yeah,
which was really unpleasant. Which was deeply
unpleasant. And it didn't reduce the psychological
effect at all because I just assumed that was
you ramping up to do something else awful afterwards.
And then your alarm went off, which is probably
why I didn't believe it was over. Yeah, I can
see why that would be. But that was like my weird
Hail Mary sort of last couple of minutes. Maybe
I'll get them to talk if I start to say threaten
something even worse. But I had nothing at that
point. I knew I'd lost. Yeah. What do I do now?
The good 20 seconds standing in line and going,
now what? So something that we've talked about
a little bit over the last couple of days since
the scene has been, some of it, that very lighthearted
thing we do where I go, God, I couldn't do your
job. I would have found that so stressful. And
you being like, God, I couldn't take what you
took. That's insane. That's so fucked up. But
it opens up a more interesting conversation about
the different impacts of taking a scene like
that and doing a scene like that. Yeah. So how
did that feel for you, Mix, in the moment and
in the couple of days that's come since? I think
in the moment it felt like any other scene we
were doing in that I was enjoying it. Because
I do enjoy being a sadist and really pushing
at things with you and kind of forcing you into
challenging situations, both physically and emotionally.
That's what I really enjoy about kink. I think
there were definitely some points during the
interrogation where I struggled a little bit
with it. Some of the physical stuff, I think,
kind of took me by surprise a little bit. So
like we did some boot caning and you have a particular
thing about. your boobs you're quite really sensitive
about them it's really challenging for you to
have impact on your boobs and we'd agreed that
that was one of the things I would do was to
cane them with care to avoid the nipple which
is a hard limit of yours but whenever we've done
that before it's always been really positive
quite light -hearted context to it and lots of
praise yeah that thing is like you're sort of
helping me overcome a barrier boobs are a soft
limit for me like most people that i've played
with are not allowed to touch my boobs at all
it takes a really high level of trust for me
to do that and you're the only person i've done
boob impact with so every time we've done that
it's been very much like i want to overcome this
fear i have i want to get tougher at taking this
and you supporting me through it yeah where in
the context of the interrogation it was like
i was having a terrible time and you were enjoying
giving me a terrible time yeah yeah so after
i did that i kind of came out thinking that was
that was really a really intense thing for us
to do any context but in that really mean negative
context where i was forcing your head back and
i was just doing it much harder than i've ever
done before and not in any way responding positively
when you tried to stop me from doing it yeah
you leaned for you lean right forward and put
moved your arms as best you could to shield yourself
from it and instinctively i wanted to be like
you're doing great you're it's okay but what
i did instead was yank you back and do it even
harder um so i kind of did have a bit of a moment
when i came out of the room after that where
it was quite challenging to to reckon with that
yeah a little bit because i think aftercare is
often as much like we get as much from providing
aftercare to each other as we do from receiving
it and although like those mid -scene sort of
bits of praise and comfort wouldn't necessarily
be classed as aftercare i think the same applies
where sometimes you sort of reassure yourself
that what you're doing is okay By making sure
that I'm OK in the moment, by saying, you know,
I'm so proud of you, you're doing such a good
job taking that and seeing me respond positively
to that. It kind of gives you permission to continue.
And so without that, you were just just watching
me with a cane and just having to kind of deal
with that on your own without the interaction.
Yeah, yeah. And there was one moment towards
the end where I was going at you with the cane
again. You were leaning forward and I hit you
with it and then you move and then I hit you
again. And it was like, working on the assumption
you were going to stay in the position you were
in, so the two hits would have hit in the same
place. But because you moved ever so slightly
back, the cane landed much closer to your nipple
than I would ever have intended. And again, I
had to fight really, really hard to not say,
shit, I'm sorry, are you okay? Which is what
I would do. But in that moment, I couldn't because
it would have broken the spell of the scene.
So again, I was just one of those moments where
I was like, shit, that's... That's fucked up.
You responded really well to that though, because
I saw that you did respond. So you didn't hit
my nipple, but you were very close. And I freaked
out. Like I was just, just crying and rocking
and like flinching away from you and just awful.
And I noticed that you didn't continue doing
anything to me until I'd got through that. Like
I just needed a minute to just be upset about
what you'd done. So yeah, that was like, you
responded to it without responding to it in the
way that we normally would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And that was, I find that really, that was quite
tricky to maintain. So it's finding ways to do
that without breaking character and breaking
the scenes. But yeah, so other than the unhinged
whipping, where I knew I wasn't going to stop
no matter what, that's not something we've ever
really done before, even though we're in a no
safe word, CNC, total power exchange type dynamic.
If something doesn't go quite right, then I will
stop and I will check. Yeah. So not doing that
was quite a thing to get past. And I think the
other thing that I really did struggle with was
the stuff about our relationship. And I took
that a lot further than I planned to, because
I was always going to say something about betrayal
of trust and communication and all that. But
that reaction to the way that it affected you
meant that I pushed that a lot further. I think
I surprised myself a little bit. I was so impressed
by that. Like, I was horribly upset in the moment,
but there was still that part of me that was
like... like go mix this is brutal this is stuff
i know you find really hard to play with and
really going for it was an incredible performance
yeah it wasn't a performance well that's worrying
did i for real what sorry perhaps i should clarify
um obviously everything i said was a performance
yes but i wasn't trying to act upset yeah when
i was doing i was getting upset yeah when i was
saying it And kind of when I left the room, kind
of saying it was nice while it lasted. That wasn't
acting. I was like, that's a really fucking awful
thing to say. And so, yeah, it was it was really
hard coming out of the room at that point. And
I was like, the fuck have you just done? You
know, I always had to force myself to go right
now is not the time. Now is not the time to be
upset. You have to pull yourself together. You
have to get your shit together. and just get
on with the next bit. I was having much the same
conversation with myself inside the room. Yeah,
it's like, no, get my shit together because it's
going to get worse. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm sure
that was the point where you brought in the waterboarding
kit and put it on the shelf in front of me. Yeah.
So I could sit and stress about it. So I was
like, right, I can't start crying about our relationship
right now. I'm about to get waterboarded. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that was really,
really difficult. I was able to kind of pull
myself together to be able to do it. And I think
that it's made me think a lot over the last couple
of days about that kind of jokey stereotypical
view we have that behind every dominant is some
absolutely unhinged, feral, submissive saying,
hit me with your car sort of thing. And the perception
of that being about the dominant kind of reining
in the submissive for safety reasons and for
legal reasons. but actually there is a version
of that that is no actually i don't want to do
that yeah as dominant yeah that is not a thing
that i want to do to you or say to you or whatever
so i think there's a especially around emotional
sadism around who actually has it harder in that
scenario and you probably could probably apply
it to physical sadism as well about that kind
of how much pain do i want to inflict on you
how much pain do you want to receive but i feel
like that's easier to balance yeah i think probably
for most people it's probably fair to say that
with physical pain it's easier to dish it out
than it is to take it yeah with some variation
every different sensitivities and stuff you've
got a really hardcore masochist with a really
new sadist then that might flip but generally
that's going to be the balance where i think
you're right with emotional sadism you have the
harder job yeah and you always almost always
have the stronger reaction to it than me afterwards
where you can really hurt my feelings you can
even poke at trauma you can do stuff that sends
me into a panic all of this stuff and then the
scene's over and 99 % of the time I'm like that
was hot you want to go again where you know in
the moment you're like yeah I upset the pig oh
yes they're crying and then afterwards you're
like oh my god what have I done yeah it seems
to generally hit you a lot harder when we do
that stuff and you need more aftercare than I
tend to yeah Yeah, and I never want to be one
of these people who kind of seriously talk about
pity the poor doms kind of thing. I absolutely
recognise that a lot of the stuff that a lot
of submissives take is way beyond what I would
want to do. You know, I could not do your job.
But I also couldn't do yours. No. And that's
fair. That's probably why we work quite so well
as we do. But I think that bit of this really
brought home to me going, actually, this is really
fucking hard. Yeah. And you have to be really
comfortable with the reality at the moment, but
also the bit that comes afterwards. Yeah. And
I think that the way that I solved that in the
moment is that I just cracked on with the next
bit. Yeah. I didn't allow myself to kind of sit
and reflect because I probably wouldn't have
been able to come back in the room if I had,
if I'm being honest. I mean, I hope you'd have
at least unlocked me. I mean, yes. Yes. I wouldn't
have been able to come back in the room as the
torturer if I had. Just run into the woods and
never return. Yeah, just go for a walk. It's
fine. But there wasn't that opportunity for aftercare
in that moment because the job wasn't done. So
the scene wasn't finished. What I wanted to ask
is, given all that you've talked about with how
heavy parts of that were for you and times where
you just had to kind of power through it, was
it an enjoyable scene for you, Mix? Was it a
good time? Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it was.
It was a bit of a roller coaster. Yeah. But it
was really, yeah, I really enjoyed it. And I
think that the two parts to it for me came together
quite nicely and kind of offered a little bit
of that balance and that little bit of respite,
I suppose, from the cruelty of it. But I really
enjoyed doing all of the stuff in the room. Yeah.
I had a really good time doing and saying all
of those things because it was an opportunity
that just to go a bit nuts. yeah we did you did
basically everything yeah basically everything
that that we do but in the most intense unpleasant
and combined way as possible it was yeah it was
incredible yeah um i wanted to ask you that for
two reasons first i wanted to check that you
definitely have had a good time because i had
an amazing time but also because when we're talking
about this scene i'm almost seeing masochism
in you which is fascinating right because you
are talking about how you nearly made yourself
cry during the fake breakup like you're coming
out of the room and thinking oh god what have
i just done yeah you're having to sort of power
through your own suffering to continue the scene
and i say did you have a good time you're like
yeah it was great fellow massacres i know that
feeling yeah oh yeah i think so yeah i think
that makes sense I'm not sure I would describe
it quite as masochism, but I completely understand
what you're saying. I think there is something
about reveling in the very worst of yourself.
Yeah. You know, giving yourself permission to
just be awful. So I think there's something enjoyable
about that in there. I'm playing with some really
dark ideas in that as well. The whole setup of,
you know, using torture techniques. on you being
physically and mentally cruel to you um is just
enjoyable and and you know quite intoxicating
in that way but the other half of it was really
fun as well you know when i wasn't in the room
sitting down here on the couch fucking about
with the lights and messing about with the playlist
and and all of that kind of stuff berating you
through the from my perspective was a little
bit goofy Yeah. And there was that sex nerd part
of it as well, going, right, so what's the next
thing I'm going to do to move the plot along?
Very much approaching it as a game. Yeah. Yeah.
So overall, it was really enjoyable. There were
a couple of those moments that were quite difficult,
but I was able to pull myself around because
I wanted to do the thing. Yeah. I wanted to win.
But also I wanted to see you win as well. yeah
if i'm being honest then that's a really sounds
a bit weird no i know i know you're really divided
on that there's no bad outcome yeah to me from
this because either we did we did it for a couple
of hours and i got the answer out of you or we
did it for three hours and you won yeah but i
got it to do it for three hours yeah yeah it
was like a win -win for you definitely yeah i
i wanted to win oh yeah 100 % wanted to win i
would have been so impressed with you if you
managed to get it out of me but i still i wanted
to win and i didn't want to cut short no so i
was very pleased but i think the stuff we've
been talking about there brings up a really important
point about how everyone's consent is really
important in this and that was a big part of
what we negotiated and something we talked about
is that you could call it at any time as well
even if i didn't break and you were just like
you know an hour and two hours in 10 minutes
in whatever it was like actually this is not
for me i'm not enjoying it it's too much you
have the right to to just stop it yeah and that
you know that consent always goes both ways much
as we play around you know consensual non -consent
we modify consent we opt in and out of things
like safe words all of these things that we can
choose the foundation of it has got to be everyone
involved has consented to being involved and
has agreed to whatever modifications you make
to that consent and yeah and you had that right
throughout and i'm glad that you didn't need
to do that but i would never have been mad about
it if you had yeah and i think that goes back
to the conversation we had in the in a couple
of days before about you know me wanting to have
my proposal for how we deal with your consent
in that moment and and what you were saying which
was no my consent is to give you my safe word
is to give you the information yeah that's my
that's my out and you could have done that at
any time yeah and nobody would have been mad
at you i would have quoted a little bit of course
um but nobody would have been mad about that
Whereas my safe word, I suppose, is more explicit
in that, more traditional, I suppose. I can just
say, no, I'm not doing this anymore. The issue
you would have had is I wouldn't have believed
you, of course. That's been discovered. You'd
have had to get me out of the room before I actually
realised. So maybe a learning for next time is
maybe we give you a safe word. Yeah, give me
an actual safe word. yeah yeah yes that is a
good point so obviously given that it was really
intense for both of us physically mentally in
all the ways aftercare was a really big focus
and i think for a scene of that length and intensity
the aftercare is always going to be quite proportionate
to that yeah um so i think it's fair to say that
yesterday was basically i mean we had a couple
of hours after the scene to wind down but also
all of yesterday was just an aftercare day yeah
yeah as soon as you had accepted that it was
over you went and had a you went and had a shower
because you had blood and piss on you yeah um
did wonders for your hair i know my hair has
gone so shiny but you had a shower we got cuddly
on the bed and um ordered some food yeah so this
was after 10 o 'clock that we got some food got
a kebab which was yes exactly what i needed kebab
and cigarettes in bed i was spoiled like we do
not usually eat or smoke in the bed but i think
i'd earned it yes yeah yeah yeah we do sometimes
smoke don't we after an intense scene but very
rarely do we eat um in bed because of my own
uh neuroses about food in the bed i keep trying
to explain to you how nice it is to eat in the
bed and then stash your takeaway like leftovers
under the bed or even under your pillow and then
wake up in the night and it's just there and
you can just eat greasy meat with your hands
and then wipe on the sheets it's so good disgusting
disgusting you're a filthy filthy animal So we
timed it deliberately so that we knew we would
have some time immediately afterwards to be able
to decompress, but then we didn't have any plans
on Sunday. Yeah. So we could do whatever we needed
to do as we realised what we needed to do, because
I think there was a bit of an unknown about that.
Definitely, yeah. Really? The longest scene we've
ever done, aside from anything else, I would
say probably the most intense, but just it being
so long and so late was always going to have
an impact. Yeah, yeah. And you were on top of
the world. Yeah. like you you seem to bounce
back really quickly from it yeah yeah like as
soon as i sort of had that shower to reset and
accepted that the scene was done i was just like
on a high because i won yeah i think that was
a big part of it i think i might have come down
a little bit harder if i hadn't won but yeah
but either way it would have still probably felt
pretty awesome for doing however much i did but
yeah i felt amazing i was quite chatty wanted
to immediately start planning the next interrogation
you're like no Not just yet, till out. Wanted
to talk a lot about the scene. It was really
quite sort of bubbly, both like the night of
and the next day. I was physically very tired
though. And I've gotten more tired over time.
So obviously I'm day two now. And I've been fighting
to be at work and stuff. But I've done no exercise
today. I've done kind of minimal housework. I'm
quite achy all over. My boobs are killing still.
Like if I lie on my side, oh yeah, you really
went for it. And like my legs are like just.
achy and exhausted and it's well worth it well
worth it i'm still in a really good place mentally
like really good mood yeah it's like it's taken
me a good while for it to like fully hit me i
think yeah and it was sort of the opposite way
around for you wasn't it made sure it got easier
over time and it was quite rough mentally yeah
i think so i think so i think in the in the immediate
aftermath aftermath that's a strong word for
it isn't it i think it's valid i think it's earned
valid yeah yeah Like immediately afterwards,
I had clearly been holding quite a lot of tension
in my body throughout the three hours because
I was on the go. So when it was finished, you
could kind of feel that tension in my body and
go, OK, it's done. But then immediately, like
a bit of a crash from it, kind of quite tight.
I think as people would in any kind of situation
where they felt like they've been on for a period
of time, as soon as it's over, it's like the
adrenaline drains out of your body. And you're
like, right, now is the time for sleep. Yeah.
And I don't think I slept great overnight. I
think it took me a while to fall asleep and then
wasn't asleep for particularly long. I woke up
quite early on Sunday and felt quite flat. Yeah.
I think, like not actively sad or anything necessarily,
but yeah, I felt a little bit flat and a little
bit listless, I suppose. Some of it was physical.
I was still physically quite tired. Yeah. But
also I think kind of having some of that. guilt
i don't know guilt is the right word for it like
that as has happened to me before when we've
done like psychological stuff that kind of feeling
of what have i done what have i said you don't
do or say those things to someone that you care
about so i think there was probably a little
bit of that where i was focusing in on the where
the relationship the fake breakup stuff and the
things i said about you you know i couldn't remember
genuinely don't remember saying but it's just
bullshit for like but that is such an awful thing
to say someone who is a content creator you know
but i think because it was it was really intense
and there was those those particular elements
to it that we've talked about i felt a little
bit like i'm not really sure whether i want to
do that again yeah is that my limit on those
things yeah Because it's been dead interesting
the time that we've been together. My limit on
quite a lot of things has pushed further out.
I have corrupted you most severely. You have
corrupted me most severely, yes. And not just
on emotional, like sadism and psychological stuff
as well. You definitely have on that. There are
things that I am doing to you now that a few
months ago would have been absolutely off the
table. Yeah. Not even a question. But the physical
impact stuff that we do and like the level of
control and see and stuff like that. I think
my limits. I wouldn't necessarily say my limits
have been pushed out. I have discovered that
my limits are further out than I thought. Yeah.
I think it's probably the way that I would describe
it. But the interrogation was so intense for
a lot of reasons. I was left on Sunday kind of
thinking, I'm not really sure. I'm not really
sure whether I'd want to do that again. Partly
because what we did was really, really intense.
But actually, in order for it to be effective
in the future, the question is, what else would
I have to do? Yes. Do you know what I mean? Like
you said yourself, if we'd done it for another
hour, you probably would have broken. Yeah. I'm
not sure I could have done it for another hour.
Yeah. I guess you could change some of the stuff
that we've done, leave you in the room for longer
and things like that. But there wasn't a lot
else that I could do, which would have been more
intense than what I had already done. So what
would it take? But probably a couple of years
ago, there were things that we were doing. So
we were like, yeah, that's the most intense.
Where are we going to do it? this is where we've
come to true who knows how are you feeling about
that now makes kind of yesterday you're saying
you're very unsure about whether you wanted to
do it again while also throwing out multiple
ideas for what you could do next time we do it
so where's that sort of settled for you today
mix or is it still processing i think it's probably
still a little bit up in the air yeah i think
the fact that i am pondering how to make it worse
um is probably a positive probably a positive
like well not even make it worse actually it's
how do i make it more effective because i don't
necessarily think we would have to get more intense
or more extreme in the level of violent i suppose
no but there are there are definitely things
that i learned during the process of doing it
that i could apply in the future to make it feel
more intense for you yeah um i think one of the
things that you said was at one point i played
a high pitch noise and for your information that
apparently is a is a is a frequency that repels
squirrels incredible it also repelled me quite
thoroughly i did not enjoy it um one of the things
that you'd said was that i could have done that
for longer yeah and actually yeah i could and
that's that's maybe how you make a longer scene
out of it is by doing those things for longer
periods of time that's what i was thinking is
if we do this again to make it more intense for
me and either the same or a lesser intensity
for you is extend the length of it, but make
use of more of that negative space. So literally
stick me in the room for a couple of hours with
that squirrel repellent noise going and the light
flashing on and off and go take a nap. Yeah,
yeah. Like, I mean, maybe not a nap because you
need to be able to be aware if I'm wanting to
tap out. Yeah, yeah. But you can chill. You can
just, you know, have me on it on a screen, play
a game, read a book, do whatever. Just keep an
ear out for me shouting, I want to give up. Yeah.
And it'll probably give you a bit more of a break
in it and make it easier for you. So I think
probably if we do it again, which I unsurprisingly
would do again next week. Yeah. That's what we
do is we think about ways that we either maintain
or reduce the intensity for you, depending on
sort of where your head settles over the next
few days. Yeah. Yeah. See if we can get you a
win. Yeah. Yeah. I'd have to win one of them.
Which is the other slightly daunting part of
it is what would it take? I know you say you
probably wouldn't have lasted another hour, but
I'm not 100 % convinced by that. It's impossible
to know for sure. I was feeling like I couldn't
take another hour, but I was also feeling like
I couldn't take another hour at the first point
where you poured piss over my head and left me
freezing cold and soaking wet. I was like, this
is going to be me done. I'm not going to be able
to cope with sitting here wet for the rest of
this scene. And I did, because you then waterboarded
me. I was drenched for the rest of it. I think.
It would have depended a lot on what you did
with that hour. I can definitely think of things
you could have done that would have got you a
win, but I am not inclined to tell you them.
No. No. Which is rude. Rude. So, yeah, I think
I'm probably still working out where I am with
doing it again. I will probably end up in a point
where I go, yeah, let's do it again, but it's
not something that I would want to do regularly.
No, that's fair. that's how i feel about the
unhinged whipping as well it's like i'm so glad
i did it i would be open to doing it again but
if you hit me that hard every time you hit me
i would not have a good time i would not want
to do that so it's and i think partly because
it requires a level of planning that we don't
usually do for a scene so i think yeah if we
do do it again it would be kind of a fairly infrequent
thing yeah um special occasions do with like
anniversaries yeah yeah what did you do for christmas
wow do some kind of christmas themed one oh no
relentlessly playing christmas music to me yeah
yeah oh god i shouldn't have said that yeah i
mean we've already even you know we talked about
different things i could do with the video and
stuff like that because of where it started as
being a little bit kind of you know more focused
on sensory overload we used paul for the for
the thing yeah on the projectors but you'd suggested
mobile game ads that would have driven me insane
yeah you came up with um spider videos or like
trypophobia stuff yeah yeah yeah so you know
slightly more involved so already kind of thinking
about oh yeah i could i could do it differently
in future yeah i think there's ways to use elements
of it for play that's a lot less like involved
and intense as well so we'd already talked about
potentially doing some stuff where you leave
me like restrained in the dark and monitor me
through one of the cctv cameras that's an element
of what we did in the scene on saturday that
you could pull out and combine with other things
doing a sort of shorter and quite not it wouldn't
be light for me that's quite intimidating but
a lighter way yeah um things like putting me
in the room with the lights going using a projector
to to show me stuff that you want to show me
for whatever reason. There's elements of that
that we can pull into whatever scene. And if
we do interrogation again, it's possible we'll
do it in a completely different style and from
a completely different angle. I think because
there's always going to be something that's quite
big and long -term to plan, there is no limit
to how creative we can get for it. Yeah, I think
you're right. I think there are definitely elements
of that that you could just take out and use.
I think, weirdly, one of my favourite parts of
it was using the vampire paddle. in the dark
yeah that was terrifying um but yeah that's exactly
why it was one of my favorite parts um and that
was kind of a spur of the moment thing i knew
i was going to use a vampire paddle on you i
knew i was going to use darkness but it was one
of those things where i think when i go well
actually how do you how do you take something
that actually you really enjoy because you really
like bloody and spiky things and you like bloody
impact yeah how do you take something that you
enjoy and make it more intense or make it less
enjoyable. I mean, already you've moved it to
the front of my thighs, which I fucking hate
at the best times. There is that. um but not
giving you a way of seeing what was happening
yeah or seeing the effect that it was having
on you that's what it was because i was picturing
because i know obviously every hit breaks the
skin with one of those yeah and because you kept
hitting the same spot over and over again yeah
in my head it was like you're going to turn the
light on and there's going to be a section of
my leg that is just mint and it wasn't like the
tiny little punches it wasn't probably as many
times as it felt like yeah it's just because
it was in the dark it was so scary yeah and then
when the light did come on it was like yeah there's
blood but it's just you know a bunch of little
punches same as normal it's it's not that big
of a deal but it made it a lot scarier in the
moment yeah i never like spiky impact down the
fronts of my thighs i don't like any impact down
the front of my thighs front of my thighs is
awful and i realized very quickly that it was
a horrible bonus of the scene that because i
was restrained to a chair sitting every time
he hit me it was front of the thighs and boobs
like none of the areas i like to be hit no back
butt and back to the thighs were all ruled out
i was like oh god yeah so it's little bits like
that yeah but you think yeah actually there's
something there's something fun to play with
yeah there and and as difficult for both of us
the boob caning was again that's opened up kind
of okay so maybe we can do that in a different
way when we do it yeah and you know because the
whole idea of doing boob impact was because you
wanted you wanted to challenge yourself and kind
of challenge the level of trust that we had I
suppose yeah challenge in a positive way the
level of trust that we had actually having done
it in that context yeah okay so let's take that
and be mean about it next time we go yeah I'm
up for that I think doing a different style of
waterboarding as well was definitely one that
I would like to like is a strong word I would
be interested in exploring in in that way because
when we've done waterboarding before it's always
been very much like i am just me you are just
you in between you're checking in i'm having
a giggle i'm super horny about it like it's a
good time and this was the only time that we've
done waterboarding combined with any level of
psychological play or role play at all um obviously
in this context it was an interrogation where
you're trying to get the information out of me
which which is exactly what you would expect
to pair with waterboarding doing like sort of
like either a mini interrogation that's just
waterboarding or waterboarding with some level
of like degradation or other psychological play
yeah yeah seems like a thread to pick out because
that was so much more unpleasant so much more
intense yeah yeah really frightening so yeah
i think that's that's definitely something that
could be fun to explore i hope we don't stop
doing horny waterboarding because i like that
yeah But there's no reason. There's no just keep
pushing outwards, is there? No. You can mess
about with it and play about with it however
you like. I think one of the really fun things
about the whole scene was it was an opportunity
to take some risks with some things. Yeah. Not
in an uncontrolled, unaware kind of way, but
pushing at the things that we've done in the
past. So we've talked about boob impact, doing
it in that menacing way, hitting you harder with
it than I have. doing the waterboarding the way
that we did it with the longer paws and different
types of paws actively not being supported forcing
your head into place and threatening you with
it and they gave an opportunity to push those
things a little bit further and take some controlled
risks yeah with some of the things that we've
been doing for a while um which i think is a
really positive yeah i think because because
the aim of the scene from your perspective was
to break me Instead of your goal sort of going
into a scene of being like, let's keep this at
a level that we're both happy in. It was actually
like, yeah, you don't want to go like zero to
100 in the first five minutes and do something
fucking awful. I'm like, I can't take it anymore
and the scene's over. Yeah. But you did want
to try to get me past my limit at some point.
Yeah. Without actually breaking any of my agreed
hard limits within the scope of things that I
had agreed to. Yeah. How far can you push them?
and because my goal was to resist what you're
doing to me no matter what i was a lot more willing
to endure things where normally i would maybe
have some feedback for you yeah um and that there
goes both of us what we're capable of and it's
like okay so now we've established we can do
it yeah let's fucking do it yeah yeah yeah so
the bit that we talked about earlier on with
the getting close to your nipple with the boob
impact i suppose is an example of that where
actually in any other context i would either
i would have stopped Or you would have provided
some feedback. Or probably both. Yeah. But yeah,
it gave us the space to play around with that
and push it. So I think in that respect, it was
a really, really positive thing because it shows
you what we're both capable of. Yeah. In a way
that we'd maybe not realised before. Yeah. But
what you just said about the whole scene being
like a battle for us, I suppose, does raise an
interesting point, doesn't it? Because our kink
is not usually adversarial. definitely and it's
something that very rarely comes up but when
it does it's a really interesting change of pace
for me because i'm usually very very obedient
very very submissive like i'm not even bratty
a little bit cheeky sometimes but actual bratting
isn't something that appeals to me and it's i
think a couple of people have asked me this on
tiktok while i've been posting about this it's
like how do you go from that headspace to where
we were yeah and for me there's definitely i
need to be given permission to be difficult i
can't just do it but because we pre -negotiated
this and that was the point like that is what
made the scene good for you as well is you yeah
you want to win but you didn't want to you didn't
want to just answer the question the first time
you asked it yeah um So that sort of gave me
permission to play with that and play with sort
of mischief and play with mischief more so before
the scene when I was actually doing the rule
break. But like then being difficult, being stubborn,
being angry. anger is a feeling that does come
up for me during play sometimes like if you're
hitting me with something really unpleasant i'm
clearly struggling and having a bad time and
trying to get away from you and you keep doing
it there's a little voice in my head going what
the fuck is wrong with you like can't you see
i'm having a shit time like just chill out for
a minute come on yeah um but i never voiced that
that's never part of my reaction and it's like
it's in conflict with the rest of me because
there's a part of me that is like can you hit
me really hard and ignore it when i struggle
and cry and then the other half that is like
but why are you doing it why are you being so
mean yeah um but there's certain things that
we've done like some like a handful of really
intense scenes where it goes a little bit beyond
that and it goes into actually in this moment
you are my enemy yeah yeah uh the unhinged whipping
was one of those where it was just relentless
and there was nothing i could do or say to stop
you And I was just fucking angry and miserable.
Like, why? And it's exactly what I wanted. I
wanted to feel that. But in the moment, I was
really displeased. And then the interrogation
has probably been a couple of other times that
have sort of bordered on that as well. And that's
not where I want every scene we did to be in,
because I love being submissive to you. I love
feeling really loved up and intimate and close
with you when we play, even when it's stuff that's,
you know, disgusting. It's often very lovey.
yeah um i wouldn't want to lose that but every
now and again just going into that really dark
place of like you just be the worst version of
you you can be and i will just be really unhappy
about it and have an awful time and let's see
what comes in that space because it's an interesting
place to play in yeah and i think it always whenever
we've done something like that it makes me feel
like i understand you more and i know you more
i'm closer to you yeah like that's really special
Yeah, no, I would agree with that. I think it
is. You learn so much more about each other when
we do something that's new and different and
a different perspective on how we normally do
it. It's interesting, I suppose, because it is
different from... There's different flavours
of adversarial kink, I suppose. There is the
kind of the... There is the bratty version of
it where you can kind of have that kind of bouncing
off each other and, you know, in that really
playful kind of way. That sort of make me. Yeah,
whereas the kind of adversarial kick that we
were doing on Saturday was deliberately, deliberately
angry, I suppose, wasn't it? It wasn't fun and
having a laugh. Actually, in that moment, we
were battling. Yeah. You know, which is not something
I've ever really experienced before. Yeah. It
was fun to try that. But it was also really hard
sometimes just to keep a straight face. Yeah,
and I saw the odd crack. Yeah. I saw them. And
it started right at the beginning. The preamble
to the interrogation was we were sitting on the
couch and I suddenly just started saying, why
are you being so sketchy? Why are you hiding
your phone? You've been really weird all day.
Are you keeping secrets from me? And that just
felt a little bit cheesy. Yeah. If I'm honest,
like almost because we don't do role play. No.
Typically. Which is an alarming thing to say
when we do interrogations and rape play and stuff
like that. It's not that everything we do is
real. It's that we're not playing like characters.
We're playing exaggerated versions of ourselves.
We're adding and removing traits. We're not,
you know, like my name's John and I'm the plumber.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it felt a little bit like
that. Yeah. You know, that kind of, you know,
there is nothing wrong with taking on a role
play persona, sort of, you know, nurse and patient
or whatever kind of thing that people do. There's
nothing wrong with that at all. but I've always
really struggled with it. Me too. Feeling a bit
silly. Yeah, I just can't get into it because
I feel self -conscious. Yeah, yeah. But even
during the interrogation, there were times where
I was like, I'm really struggling to maintain
my persona. So the moment where you said I could
do this all day, I kind of stood up and part
of it was because I was so surprised that you'd
said anything to me at all. But also I was like,
okay, get you. I saw like your face for a second.
It was like a little bit amused, a little bit
proud and impressed. And then I saw you catch
yourself like, no, no, I need to respond to this
appropriately. And you started like mocking me
and taking the piss and being like, oh, you think
you're so brave, do you? It's like, you could
tell it really got you. And I think right at
the beginning as well, when you realised I was
just going to not speak, like you got me into
the room and started asking me questions and
then tried asking me something that wasn't the
information. Yeah, yeah. And I saw you twig on
like. that's the strategy they're going with.
And I saw you kind of go like, oh, fuck. I found
a solution to finding it difficult to improv
dialogue. I am not going to say any. And again,
there was, A, I think, yeah, and there was two
things there. One is, well, that completely fucks
my plan. But also, again, there was just that
moment of feeling a little bit silly. Yeah. kind
of shouting questions at you and not getting
any response back, kind of really close eye contact
with you and having to keep a straight face all
the time and be mean when I'm looking at you.
When normally, if I'm getting that close into
your face, I'm giving you a little kiss. Yeah.
Sticking my tongue out or something silly like
that. I considered giving you a little kiss at
one point just to see if it would throw you off.
Yeah. You were really in my face and I was like,
I could totally just... But I thought you might
kill me, so I didn't. I would have slapped the
shit out of you. Yeah. No doubt. So, yeah, it
was just a weird little thing of having to stain
the character. I had a random point where I nearly
cracked up that I haven't told you about, actually.
So, you know, obviously one of my songs that
I was playing in my head on repeat and singing
to myself was I'm Trining. the first line of
that is london 2020 boy and a girl broke up yeah
it's too apparent so i had that stuck in my head
because i kept coming back to it and there was
one point where you were repeatedly asking me
specifically where and when did you do it you're
shouting my face where and when where and when
did you break the rule and i just popped my head
say london 2020 i could totally say it they will
have no clue why they will have no idea why i've
just said that and my whole face And then I didn't
do it because I was like, no. No, because this
was still the point where I wasn't speaking.
And I was like, that's not going to be the first
words I say in this scene. Fair. Yeah, I would
have just been completely confused by that. I
wouldn't have known what you were doing. It wasn't
until I was reading your blog earlier on that
I realised that the song that you were using
was a song that you were using. And actually,
I really like that song. It's a really good...
Oh, it's that one! Yeah. Yeah, because I never
sung that, like, audibly. Yeah, yeah. I just
muttered it. The only one you heard me singing,
well, yelling, was Cruel Summer. Yeah. Which
I decided to shout in your face while you were
hitting me. Yes. I had a great time. I did not
have a great time. I was suffering very severely
at that point, but... Which is your version of
having a great time. It is, it's true. Which
is why I'm raring to go again, like... it's so
hard to explain to people masochism in the sort
of like stereotypical like sexual sense of like
oh like if you spank me i get turned on you can
explain to people even if they don't get turned
on by being spanked they're like okay yeah i
can understand that in theory but trying to explain
to people that i hated every second of all three
hours of it yeah yeah i had a terrible time i
was cold i was achy i was terrified for my life
like and it was the best thing i've ever done
i'm gonna go again I can't explain that. No.
I'm not bad with words, but I don't have them
for that one. You're on your own trying to make
sense of that. Yeah. And some of the pictures
as well that we got from the camera of it are
just, you are clearly having the worst time.
Yeah. Really, really quite upset by the whole
thing. And now you're like, yeah. Next weekend.
Yeah. Do it again. Seven hours. 24 hours. Yeah.
No, God, not 24 hours. I would simply die. And
this is important because we respect the top's
limits. Yes, we do. Yes, very, very important
to remember that the top's have limits as well.
I am very much a hit -me -with -your -car submissive,
though. Just hit me with your car! Yeah, yeah,
I know. And I always will be. That's why I love
you. Until you hit me with your car. Yeah, I
don't actually want you to hit me with your car.
I just want you to tie me up crying and naked
in the boot and drive me to a secondary location.
So maybe that's our next big scene. Maybe that's
like, yeah, kidnapping. Hell yeah. Yeah, fair
enough. That's where we go from this. Yeah. There
you go. You heard it here first. But I think
that's everything that we have to share about
the interrogation. It was a lot of fun. And thank
you for everyone who has followed along for this
absolutely wild ride. Out of all the kinky shit
that we've done, this seems to be the one that
people on social media are the most fascinated
by. And rightfully so. It was very cool. It was
a very cool thing for us to do. We are very cool.
We are. Very, very cool. See you next time.