Welcome to Don't Scare the Newbies, a podcast
where we talk kink, raw and unfiltered. I'm Carizal,
a lifestyle submissive in a 24 -7 dynamic who
likes their kink heavy, intense and scary. And
I'm S, Carizal's dominant, who knows how to deliver
all of the above. And today we're going to be
talking about rules and contracts part one, focusing
today on the contract. Very excited to dig into
this. And this is one that I think a lot of people
will be interested in because I've talked about
the rules a lot before, but never really shared
much about our contract. No, true. We're going
to talk about how you've signed your life away
to me. Excellent. So, yeah, this episode is going
to really talk about the formal structure that
is a part of a lot of DS dynamics. A lot of those
types of dynamics are based around rules and
expectations that the dominant place is on the
submissive and that they agree together as part
of negotiation. And I think for me, I think that's
something that's really important. It's really
important to have that formal structure. so that
everybody understands what they're getting into,
everybody understands what's expected on both
sides, because it's not just about imposing rules
and setting limits for the submissive, but also
kind of setting limits for the dominant as well.
And the other side of rules is punishments. So
kind of being really clear about the consequences
of breaking the rules. Yeah, absolutely. And
I'm with you that having it very, not necessarily
super, super formal, though I would say that
our contract is definitely into the very formal
wording category. But even if it's not particularly
formal language, having something to refer back
to so that things are very black and white and
clear, especially as these dynamics develop over
time and become more complex. The expectations
on everyone involved. can be a lot to hold in
your head it would be very easy for things to
get forgotten or get misinterpreted or just for
people to have different understandings of what
they mean so having something to come back to
be like okay this is what we agreed is that working
for us is really helpful yeah i yeah i agree
i think the the it sounds a little bit nerdy
i suppose but having them written down is really
important especially as dynamics develop for
me personally i don't think it's smart to start
off a dynamic with 10 pages of rules and really
detailed expectations and detailed requirements
on both sides the 50 shades approach just turn
out with a fully written contract be like bam
sign it yeah yeah that that doesn't it just doesn't
make sense for all sorts of reasons doesn't doesn't
make sense to me because it's it's a lot all
at once How do you possibly keep track of that?
Yeah. So this kind of dynamic, that kind of DS
dynamic or a total power exchange dynamic, the
kind that we've got, doesn't need to have a massively
formal contract in it, but at least have a keep
note on your phone where the rules are written
down. Yeah, absolutely. Which is exactly where
we started. It was literally a Google keep note
that was shared between us. And I think we don't
have the original one because we added to it
over time. But from what I remember, the original
one had about five or six rules on it. It wasn't
formally written. It was very, very sort of light
and very casual. The approach that we took to
creating that, but it was still helpful to have
a written record of it so that things didn't
get sort of agreed and then just drift out of
our heads. I think having that and having had
that throughout has been really helpful for me
in... making these things become part of routine
and almost like muscle memory yeah there are
a lot of rules that we have that i now don't
even think about because they are just a thing
that i have done since pretty much day one of
our relationship yeah um yeah but it's still
helpful to have that to refer back to yeah so
that we so that we're clear yeah and and you
know we'll talk about rules in more detail in
the next in the next episode but it's it started
out really basic as well You know, it's just
half a dozen things that you agree are important,
whether that's really specific rules or the kind
of things that we'll talk about today, the kind
of the structure and the framework of your relationship.
If you're really clear about those with each
other at the start, that's a really strong start.
And then you can build over time and get to the
point where you are writing legal sounding. And
I think one of the things that's important to
bear in mind is that we're going to be talking
about a very heavy total power exchange dynamic,
which is the point that we have reached and the
point that both of us always wanted to reach.
We were clear about from the start. But this
same approach could be taken to dynamics that
are a lot lighter than this and stop at five
or six rules. Sorry. It's all right. It's not
staying there to stay. Every time you adjust
your microphone, it looks like you're putting
nipple clamps on, which, given that I hate nipple
clamps, makes me cringe, but it also entertains
me. It's like setting up to do our kink podcast.
I've just got to put my nipple clamps on, get
into the mood. Well, you've got it really easy
because you're always wearing low -cut booby
tops. Yeah. Which means you just kind of put
it wherever you want, because I usually wear
T -shirts. I have to think about where I can
kind of pinch the fabric and where it's going
to sit so it doesn't fall over. I have the opposite
problem, though, where sometimes my top is too
low cut and my microphone is too far away from
me. You're just a slut. Yeah, whose fault is
that, Alex? You were born that way. Yeah, but
you have trained me. I merely took advantage
of the materials that I already had. yeah that's
valid Anyway, we were talking about contracts.
We were. Yes, very important. So, yeah, even
if you've got a fairly light dynamic and you're
not necessarily looking to progress towards something
like total power exchange, even if the aim of
a dynamic is to have maybe five or six rules
and that's the stopping point, the approach we've
taken of gradually ramping things up would still
apply. It's just maybe going to take place over
a shorter period of time with less being added.
And I still think having things written down
and having really clear expectations is valuable,
even if it is something that is not 20. seven
is not total power exchange doesn't sort of impact
on your life and your headspace to the degree
that ours does getting that foundation right
is just as important because it's still something
that alters the kind of standard script of how
a relationship runs yeah and it can be easy to
to get muddled up with that yeah but i think
the type of relationship and the type of dynamic
we have i think having a having a proper contract
written in the way that it is is a feels like
a really important part of that because you know
24 7 total power exchange is not a light dynamic
no definitely not you know regardless of how
the rules work within that having that kind of
giving up that kind of control is a really kind
of heavy thing having a contract really in my
head really solidifies yes that it is an all
-encompassing lifestyle thing that we're doing
and this is this is our life and i think it was
you that introduced the idea of a contract yeah
to me like i was aware of them as a abstract
concept but it was something that you had in
your previous relationship where you had a formal
contract and you talked about that kind of early
on and i think at that time wasn't it's not that
i wasn't sold on it but i kind of had questions
about about it and i think you know because i
remember talking to you about the um the feelings
i have about the words master and stipe yeah
in a dynamic and i think that kind of changed
over time the more that we leaned into and developed
that greater degrees of power exchange kind of
changed my view of the the idea of a contract
and the idea of an ms dynamic specifically yeah
which has been a really interesting journey to
to see you go on because yeah like Like you said,
a contract is something that I've experienced
before and it's something that I really value.
It wasn't ever on my list of we must have this
or I'm not going to feel like the relationship's
complete. But it's something that I feel like
adds a lot, feels like a really strong commitment
to make. I think particularly for me, because
my preference and our preference was for colouring
to happen quite early in the relationship. Colouring
is a very serious commitment that I take seriously
and I wouldn't allow someone to colour me if
I didn't see it as... as being the aim being
a lifelong relationship. But I'm quite happy
to make that commitment quite early on where
a contract is something that... Just because
of the level of complexity of it and because
of the amount of control that certainly our contract
and the previous contract that I was under include.
You can't do that overnight. As we talked about,
it's too much to take on and it's too big of
a shift. So it's nice to have that milestone
a little later in a relationship. We've had the
commitment of the collaring, which is me saying
I intend to belong to you forever. And now we
have the commitment of the contract that says
I'm reaffirming that and I am committing to.
The detail that comes around that, the structure
that we have created over the period of time
from the colouring to the contract is now something
that I want to lock in and make a part of my
life moving forward. Yeah, and I think I went
on a similar sort of journey, I suppose. You're
right, colouring was something that we did pretty
early on. And your colour is monkey -edged, as
I am observing. Let me just fix that. There we
go. Colouring is something that's really important.
to me as well in that kind of dynamic and as
we added things to it and I got more comfortable
I suppose with the idea of a total power exchange
or grew into that kind of dynamic with you the
idea of the contract became more important as
we went on and the contract that you had in your
previous relationship was really helpful because
that was kind of where we started yeah With it,
you shared that contract with me and we kind
of went through it or I went through it and said,
yeah, there's some things in this that I would
want to retain, some things I'd want to add,
some things I'd want to take away. Which I think
is one of the things that people find really
surprising about our relationship and the way
I talk about developing dynamics in general is
that I'm very open about the fact that I think
it's healthy and useful to talk about previous
power exchange relationships that you've had.
when you're constructing your own, because nothing
that anyone does is ever completely original.
And you learn about what you want in relationships,
not just in DS and MS and other BDSM relationships,
but in relationships, you learn about what you
want and what you don't through your previous
experiences. Yeah. It would seem really counterintuitive
to me to go, OK, we need a completely blank slate.
We're never going to talk about my ex. We're
never going to talk about your previous relationships.
We can't use any of that. And everything we do
has to be completely different. Because before
I was with you, I just spent two years figuring
out what worked really well for me in an MS relationship.
Why would I throw out all of that learning when
we can make use of it? Yeah, yeah. You can build
on it, keep all the stuff that worked really
well, add things that are just for us and get
rid of the stuff that worked less well. Yeah.
I suppose. And, you know, to be fair to your
previous dynamic and that contract, I think a
lot of the stuff that I took out wasn't necessarily
that I thought, oh, that's a bad thing. I don't
like that. It was just about preference and actually
a lot about kind of phrasing and the way that
it was structured. Yeah. For me, kind of I spent
probably as much time. thinking about the content
as i did the structure of it yeah which i really
like because that contract was made from a template
itself so it's already been adapted from something
that was from someone else's relationship yeah
and then me and my ex -partner put our own spin
on that our own language into it the things that
were part of our relationship and then you completely
restructured it changed a lot of the wording
and we put in the things that are personal to
us as well yeah So at each of those stages, the
stuff that was retained and stuff that was lost.
But it's it's become very much our own. So it's
much as it's important to learn from previous
relationships. You also don't want to try to
just copy and paste a previous dynamic onto a
new relationship, because even if you look at
it and go, yeah, that was perfect. Like, that
was exactly how I like it. It's not going to
be the same with with different people. That's
not how people work. So you need to bring your
own personality and flavour into that kind of
thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I think you're right.
And the structure stuff is because I can help
myself. In my professional life, I've spent a
lot of time writing contracts. Yeah. And I know
how I like contracts to be structured. Yeah.
You know, it's such a nerdy thing to say. But
yeah, having really clear sections in it and
having a really good flow to it and being really
specific and using like legal language as well.
I just really enjoy it. I really like that about
it. It's, yeah, it's really hot to me and I really
like how official it feels and how legal it feels
because that's kind of the point of the contract
for me is for it to feel really legally binding,
although of course it's not. Yeah, and I think
that's a really important point to pick up for
all. It is structured like a proper contract.
And when I was drafting it, kind of using proper
legal language and legal definitions. But it's
really important to stress that although we refer
to it as a BDSM contract, a contract of total
power exchange, it is not a legally binding document.
No, and it can't be. And it can't be. You couldn't
rely on that as a defence to go, well, I was
allowed to do these things to Carisel because
the contract says. Yeah. And actually it would
go the other way, probably. Yeah, because we've
essentially created evidence of your control
over me and because BDSM falls into such a legally
grey area. Yeah. Sometimes that can actually
be used against you. And you mentioned that it
can't be used as a defence. It also can't be
legally enforced. You can't take me to court
for breach of contract. Yeah, yeah. You can hit
me with stuff for breach of contract. Yeah, I
can punish you for it. Yeah, but you can't take
me to court. So areas of the contract will break
down the contract a lot as we go along, but things
where it says that I can't, you know, end the
dynamic for any reasons other than those laid
out in the contract. If I just pack my bags one
day and walk out of the house, you can't take
me to court for that. It's not legal. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. And I think, so it's really important to
remember that. But... having it set up in a way
that it feels like that and treating it with
the seriousness that it is yes a proper legally
binding document i suppose is is i think is part
of the head is a really helpful way of maintaining
that kind of headspace and maintaining that kind
of approach to your um dynamic remember i remember
a little while ago someone someone i know kind
of referred to bdsm generally as sex larping
And I remember at the time being a little bit
offended by that, going, it's a little bit more
than that, actually, but I get your point. But
in this context, it kind of is, because we're
playing at having a legally binding contract.
We know we don't, but we're treating it like
it is. Like you, though, I definitely see it
as deeper than that. It's like, it is a choice
for us to act as if it's a legally binding contract
when we know that legally it's not. But there's
more going on for me, at least, than just...
just pretending i internalize it in a way and
something that i talk about fairly frequently
is that my submission often feels partially involuntary
yeah when i start feeling submissive towards
someone that is often two or three steps ahead
of where we've negotiated to be because i i just
start to feel that disappearing of my autonomy
the same thing happens with the contract the
things that i've agreed to in that contract the
freedoms that i've given up and the commitments
that i've made yes you can't take me to court
for it yes if i tried to run away and you came
after and abduct me and dragged me back that's
hot oh you would go to jail you would go to jail
yeah um and rightly so uh but But that doesn't
mean that I have the freedom to just ignore it
because my brain puts those constraints on me
itself. The ways that I can exit the contract
are the ways that we've agreed I can exit the
contract. The things that I can do, the freedoms
that I have are the ones that we've agreed. And
although that can't be legally enforced, it's
very self -regulating for me. It's not a headspace
that I can just switch on and off. It's not as
simple as roleplay. I think there's a lot of
people where kink is just roleplay for them and
that's completely valid. that's a great way to
do it and it's probably it's probably easier
and lower maintenance yeah definitely um but
it's always felt like something deeper than that
for me it's a very core part of my identity and
how i live my life and when i enter into a power
exchange dynamic it becomes something very very
real very very quickly yeah yeah same and i think
that's that's something that i've learned in
especially in this relationship as well is i
i feel at my most comfortable when i have when
i when i have that kind of relationship you know
this is of all the relationships i've ever had
this is the one where i felt most that feels
the most authentic yeah it feels the most comfortable
and just yeah this is how life should be um and
that is down to it's partly down to you being
pretty amazing um but it is down to that kind
of yeah we're not we're not playing at it we're
living it yeah And it's an all the time. We've
talked about both rules and contracts as we've
been. chatting away there and we are going to
be doing a part two talking specifically about
the rules um but it is something that we treat
as two very distinct documents there is a clear
separation for us where the rules are things
that govern my behavior we don't really talk
a lot about your behavior and the rules your
your responsibilities come more into the contract
yeah and the rules are things that are more likely
to change on a more regular basis and we do add
to it fairly frequently and change the wording
of things fairly frequently yeah certainly you
know we're nearly two years into our relationship
now and those first two years have been a period
of a lot of development and change as we figure
out what we need especially because for you this
is your first really heavy dynamic so I had a
bit more experience than you coming in and knew
that that was exactly as you were talking about
exactly what makes me feel most authentically
myself in a relationship and it was very much
what I needed and it's been beautiful to watch
you go through that process and figure that out
about yourself as well Because I think it was
when we first got together, very much an unknown
of how far on this path you would want to go.
And I was really comfortable with what you had
to offer and the relationship that we were building.
But I didn't know if we would reach the total
power exchange. So it was really exciting that
we did. But because of all of that learning that's
happened there and creating something new together,
the rules have changed fairly frequently. By
the time we got to writing our contract, which
we did about 10 months into our relationship,
there were certain elements that we knew were
fairly fixed points that, you know, 20 years
down the line might change and we might make
some amendments to the contract, but they're
not things that are going to be changing month
to month. They are the underpinning of our relationship.
That's what the contract is for us, is the structure
that everything else is built around. Yeah, which
is how good contracts work. You have a core contract
and then you have... appendices which are the
detail which is the way that we've got as as
structured um and this we're on to our second
contract as you said we said we signed our contract
about 10 months into our relationship our first
contract was we signed it for a year yeah so
that we gave it a go gave it a good go for for
12 months and then we make a conscious decision
about how that's feeling that doesn't mean that
we couldn't talk about it throughout the year
and we did um But I think because it was so new
to me and like a huge responsibility. Yeah. You
know, to a lot of the stuff that's about me in
the contract is stuff that I was doing anyway.
But to have it so formal kind of felt like a
really big deal. Yeah. I was like, what if I
can't do this? You know, so we signed it for
a year. Yeah. And then we recently reviewed it.
I think made some fairly minor changes. It was
mainly, yeah, it was mainly sort of wording tweaks
and clarification. Yeah, yeah. So we signed a
new version of that recently, which is an open
-ended contract. Forever. Which is pretty cool.
Yeah. I really like that. That's just a feature
of our relationship now. And we still keep it
under review. But with no requirement to sign
a new one unless we have changes to make. Yeah.
So this contract could potentially be the contract
that we have for the rest of our lives. Yeah.
Yeah. with how much we i know but with how much
we talk about kink and what giant sex nerds we
are i would be surprised if at some point we
don't think about something we want to add to
it or change yeah yeah i feel like there is a
real risk that as we make this episode and the
next one because we're going to be looking at
the contract and the rules in so much depth we're
going to finish recording these two episodes
and be like We need to make some changes. We
need to change some shit here. Hang on, that
doesn't make sense. But it's good we're getting
a little bonus review. A little bonus review,
like the time that you talked about your cigarette
limit and somebody pointed out that... Your limit
is 105, not 90. Yes, it was when I was talking
about the rules on TikTok. I was talking about
my cigarette limit, which is 15 a day, or I confidently
said 90 a week. We'd had that written down for,
I think we'd had that specific limit for at least
six months. Yeah, yeah. I hadn't reduced in a
while. And it was, to be fair, it was thousands
and thousands of views on that video. And it
wasn't until it'd been up for three or four days
that someone actually did the math and said,
if you're smoking 15 a day, that's 105 a week.
I looked at it and I was like, no, this is someone
either taking the piss or someone who's just
done really bad maths. There's no way we've both
got this wrong. And it's passed a monthly review
for six months without either of us noticing.
And then I did the maths, which is quite simple
maths, really. Yeah, really, really simple. Really
simple maths. And it was like, ah, yeah. I've
never even noticed that the limit was wrong.
But we then fixed it. We have fixed it, yes.
So shall we start talking about the contract
itself? Me. She's eating the carpet mix. She's
so hungry she's eating the carpet. For fuck's
sake. No. Seeing you with the cats gives me insight
into how you would be if I was a brat. It's fascinating.
They get the Don voice way more often than me.
So, yeah, we're going to go through each of the
sections of the contract one by one. And the
first one, as with all good contracts. It's actually
talking about the contract. It is the overall
agreement. So it kind of has a start date in
there. It kind of names us as the parties to
the contract. Yeah, full government name in there.
Full government name in there, yeah, which is
terrifying. But also, as a lot of contracts do,
kind of herein referred to as the owner, herein
referred to as the slave. And it sets out that
really broad overview of it. It sets the term
of it, which is open -ended on that version.
And it's just one of those examples for me of
one of those really nice things about this is
how a proper contract would start. Sets the tone.
Sets the tone, you know, definitions, scope,
dates, things like that. And I just really, I
just got a little weird little kick out of that
bit. That was the thing that I really enjoyed
about the contract writing process with you is
that. we both got a weird little kick out of
it it felt like it started as sort of this is
important admin it's something that will value
but i don't think either of us had anticipated
quite how horny we would get about it yeah yeah
it's really it was dead exciting yeah and it's
quite hot you know to say you you buy what what
does it say um The slave is binding itself totally
and completely without limit and irrevocably
in submission to the owner. Like, that's really
hot. Yeah. Just as a sentence. Yeah. You know,
proper legal speak, but really, really sexy.
Yeah. I was just going to say. One of the things
I really like about this section and about the
contract is how it clarifies that you will be
referred to as they with a capital T, which is
part of our protocol, and that I will be referred
to as it. I love when you refer to me as it.
I'm also a they, and sometimes you will say they,
but when we're talking the formal structure of
our relationship or when we're playing, I'm an
it then, and I like that. Yes, you are property.
You are an object. Yes, I am. To be owned and
used. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So the next section
is the affirmation starting with mine. And these
are the commitments that I'm making under the
contract and the things that I am agreeing to
and confirming that I've understood. So it talks
about the fact that I'm signing the contract
of my own free will without pressure or coercion.
Although my submission can feel quite involuntary
at times, it's important when I'm agreeing to
what that actually looks like on a practical
basis, how I submit, the things that I will and
won't include within that, that I'm doing it
very clearly and consciously. There might be
elements of my submission that don't fall within
the contract or the rules that just organically
happen. But when I'm making a commitment to do
something forever, it's got to be the stuff that
we've agreed. And along with that, confirming
that I understand the contract as well and that
I want it to be enforced. Yeah. I think there's
some things in there that I really like about
this section as well. You know, it's not just
about you understanding the meaning and implication
of the contract. There's some obligations in
there for you to communicate with me. particularly
if you know kind of what does it say openly discussed
with the owner if their use of it is causing
undue distress or if it feels unable to fulfill
the duties required of it yes and i like that
that doesn't it doesn't give me the power to
say you have to stop that it's that i have a
duty to communicate and be clear with you about
what the impact of your behavior is having on
me yeah And then as we all come on to, you have
responsibilities also within this contract to
respond appropriately to that. But it's never
as black and white as if I don't like it, you
have to stop. Because the whole point of this
is about a very large, very significant transfer
of power and authority. So I don't want to have
it be as simple as don't want to do that anymore.
And then it all stops. But the communication
is there. And all of this, it really sort of
reaffirms that the contract has been created
from a position of equality. where we're both
making sure that the relationship we're creating
together meets our needs. There is a sort of
pornified version of submission, I guess, that
you hear people talking about, where it's like
the submissive shouldn't have any needs. The
whole point of being a submissive is just to
be dominated. And it's like, but even if you
are at that really extreme end of submission
where you really don't feel like you have any
independent needs in yourself, that is an independent
need. To be completely dominated is a need that
needs to be fulfilled. so when we're creating
that i need to explain to you how i get that
need met and how i get my my needs met in general
within the relationship and then we're free to
play in the space of no i have no control over
what's going on anything could happen to me because
we've already agreed what that needs to look
like and feel like for both of us for it to be
right yeah and there's a it's a kind of slippery
slope that sort of assumption that the submissive
has no needs or wants other than being completely
dominated And you see it a lot, kind of people
being treated as kink dispensers. Yeah. And in
that kind of scenario, that's kind of how it
would feel. Yeah. Is if you were just completely
meek and neutral, it would feel strange to me.
It's a bit like when people come forward and
say, I have no limits, do anything you like to
me. Okay, I'm going to chop your feet off then.
Suddenly you've got limits. It's like, yeah.
Lack of imagination. Really weird. kind of space
to be in if it's all one way. Yeah. Because no
relationship is like that. No. It doesn't matter
how kinky it is. It doesn't matter what the power
exchange is like. No relationship works like
that. Definitely. So why should this one? Yeah.
I like this. um as well it includes that i will
trust you to protect my well -being at all times
and submit unconditionally on that basis and
then that's reflected in in one of the the things
that you affirm in your section about protecting
my well -being so the things that i am agreeing
to in the contract balance the things that you're
agreeing to they're they're intertwined with
each other and you know so there's that kind
of underlying we're both in it for the right
reasons we're both going to act in good faith
um as part of a as part of our relationship yeah
And it comes back to that as well when it talks
about me being free to ask questions, have discussions,
you know, giving you that feedback. It's not
just about me saying, hey, that's distressing
me and I don't like it. Can we talk about it?
Which is important. too but also asking for clarification
opening up discussions generally being able to
take a lead on requesting things are reviewed
if needed it's not once i've signed this i'm
now completely passive and all i can do is say
i'm having a great time or i'm having a shit
time it's also i'm still involved in the creation
of this and everything that changes moving forward
needs my input so i have a set of affirmations
that i make as well um and this this kind of
felt really big for me because when you write
some of this stuff down and you read it allowed
you think shit that's a lot yeah that's quite
a lot of responsibility you have a really big
job like i would not i mean i'm not a dominant
but i would be terrified of the responsibility
that comes with being a dominant particularly
in a heavy dynamic i think you handle it incredibly
thanks but a lot of the stuff in this section
to be fair a lot of the stuff in this section
is about my responsibility to take care of you
and i suppose in recognition of the phenomenal
amount of control and power that this contract
gives me yeah it's i have to do that I have to
wield that power and use that control in a responsible
way. So, you know, it literally said, I understand
the contract and I will go into this in good
faith and I will protect your well -being at
all times. Although there is a really nice clause
that follows that that says, however, the owner
may choose at their sole discretion. Another
great phrase that I like to see. To cause the
slave suffering and distress. Yeah. Because that's
part of how we roll. Yeah. I do love some suffering
and distress. You do. You do. And I guess, you
know, it balances out that big picture responsibility.
I have to take care of you as my property has
to find in this contract versus I'm going to
do some shit to you. You know, I'm going to,
for want of a better phrase, I'm going to use
my power for nefarious ends. I do love when you
use your power for nefarious ends. Which is always,
always, always fun. So, yeah, a lot of my affirmations
here are about understanding the responsibility
that comes with it, understanding the privilege,
actually, of owning you within the context of
the contract. It's like, that's a big deal, and
it isn't something that you give lightly. It's
not something that you allow lightly. Yeah, definitely.
And I have to, you know, quite rightly, I have
to recognise that for what it is, which is absolutely
massive. because there's a phrase that gets thrown
around a lot which can sometimes get a little
bit cringe depending on how it's used but about
submission is earned yeah yeah talking about
that yeah yeah and it's like yeah sometimes people
throw it around to basically almost like inflate
their sort of role within the relationship to
the point where they're more important than their
partner it's like my submission is is really
really important especially submission is a gift
is another one that gets thrown around which
i like um and it's like sometimes those are kind
of misused and used to sort of bolster people's
ego and and reduce the understanding of of the
importance of the dominant in that relationship
and how their dominance is just as valuable and
important and as much hard work if not more sometimes
but also yes like the level of submission that
i give does have to be earned and it is a really
valuable gift which i would say that the same
for your your dominance like i we need to give
each other energy there needs to be fair exchange
there to bring out the best of those roles in
us. Yeah, yeah. But the contract recognising
that I think is important because it is a big
thing that I hand over. You have full control
over pretty much every aspect of my life. Yeah,
yeah. that's serious business yeah that is a
lot just on that as a bit of an aside then so
alongside that kind of submission is earned and
submission is a gift narrative that you see is
the the idea that actually the person who has
all of the power in a ds relationship is the
submissive yeah because following the logic that
nothing happens to the submissive that the submissive
doesn't allow it to happen to them yeah i guess
i'm just interested in your view of that as well
because again it feels a little bit cliche yeah
and i think it's it's a massive oversimplification
i think yes nothing in a healthy ds relationship
in a consensual ds relationship nothing will
happen to the submissive that they haven't agreed
and they have all the power to stop things happening
to them but so does the dominant the dominant
consent is really important the dominant well
-being is really important so i as a submissive
can go i i am absolutely fine for you to chop
my feet off i'm not going to say that but if
i um you as a dominant can go hell no i'm not
doing that yeah i'm not risking going to prison
i'm not risking you dying on me i don't want
the bloodstains on my carpet whatever your objections
are you can make them and you can say no both
or all people in this kind of relationship have
the ability to decide where those limits are
and what they are and are not going to agree
to and unless you've negotiated the level of
sort of total power exchange consensual non -consent
where I've agreed to give up some of my rights
to revoke consent. If that hasn't been specifically
agreed, both people also have the right to revoke
consent at any time and put a stop to it. And
even in the level of dynamic we have, there are
circumstances in this contract that do give me
that right. I think a healthy DS relationship
starts from a position of equality and everyone
involved looking to get their needs met, acknowledging
that those needs are very different from each
other and should balance each other where your
need to take control balances with my need to
give up control. And then you build a relationship
together where everyone's consent is being taken
into account and what rights people have to put
a stop to that are very clearly defined and agreed.
and in that situation then there isn't one person
who has more control over that than the other
um there will be one person who ends up with
more authority than the other can make things
happen to the other and that person is is the
dominant not the same person um but it's coming
from a place of what everyone needs is really
really important here let's make sure that that's
honored yeah yeah and you can kind of see where
that narrative comes from because what i think
what that is trying to combat isn't the entitlement
of people who call themselves dominant Well,
you are submissive, so you just do what I say
and fuck all the rest of it. And to combat the
social stigma around it as well, where the perception
from the outside of King looking in can be very
much, this is just people abusing other people
who are maybe very vulnerable and very passive
and just allowing it to happen. And it's like,
actually, no, when this is done right, I can
understand people wanting to flip it and go,
it's the submissive who's in control, but actually
in a healthy relationship. The starting point
is no one is in control and any control that
anyone gets over the other is consensually agreed.
Yeah. So it's not flipping it around. I don't
think it's helpful. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good jumping
off point, but it's as a teachable moment, it
lacks nuance. Yeah. I think. Yeah. No, that makes
a lot of sense. And unsurprisingly, I agree with
you. It is one of those things where you see
it on the internet so often and you go. Yeah,
but really? Yeah. You know, it's more nuanced
than that. So a couple of other things linking
back to your affirmations. So you have a responsibility
to communicate and be open in there. My responsibility
is to do the same, but also to receive that communication
in good faith and act accordingly. you know whenever
you have an opinion or whenever you have something
that you want to say about our relationship about
our dynamic about the things we're doing i will
treat that with respect yeah and i will um give
it careful consideration and actually if you
do say this is too much i can't cope with this
whether it's a rule or a scene or something i
do to you you communicating that to me i don't
see that as a sign of failure yeah in you i won't
be disappointed in you yeah i think which is
really important yes and again it doesn't guarantee
that you're just gonna go okay yeah that's fine
i'll change it you receive it in good faith you
take it under careful consideration you're not
disappointed in me for asking but there might
be this has never happened but there might be
times where i say that and you go actually i
think what's going to be best to develop you
to encourage your growth to help you deepen your
submission is i'm going to push this a little
bit and i want you to keep trying yeah because
you still have the final say but what this does
say is is that you're not allowed to just dismiss
it yeah or get mad at me for asking yeah yeah
which i like yeah yeah and if you think about
it a lot of this stuff boils down to a lot of
this stuff just boils down to well that's how
good relationships work isn't it yeah you know
i have that a lot especially when you say really
nice things about me well that's just what you
do you know oh you're really good at this you're
really good at that i'm like well yeah because
i'm a normal human being you know aside from
my ridiculous perversion i'm a normal human being
why would i do anything different in that um
but in this context it just feels like a really
important point to make of you're going to give
me all of this power and that doesn't mean that
i can act with impunity yeah get mad at you if
you're not being a good submissive you know so
the next section is uh general and this is covering
things that i would consider essentially the
foundation rules These are the things that I
am required to do that are not in the rules themselves.
They're not things that are likely to change
any time in the next good few years. A lot of
these refer back to the rules as well, so they'll
give a kind of general... underpinning rule that
is a part of the foundation structure of the
relationship but then the specifics of that are
defined in the rules because the specifics might
change but the baseline doesn't so it starts
out strong by saying that i am the exclusive
property of the owner and have no rights other
than those granted to me by the owner or set
out in this contract which i i love just like
yeah yeah and again it's just a really cool kind
of legally sentence isn't it yes really nice
yeah and then following on from that it talks
about um free use so there is in the next section
a lot more detail around free use um but states
that i have no rights to revoke consent for free
use except those set out in the contract um it
talks about domestic service which is something
that we will probably do a whole episode on at
some point because it is one of my absolute top
kinks in a really Interesting way because it's
very much not sexual for me. Yeah, yeah. But
the need to serve and make myself useful around
the house is something that I consider like...
top priority. So that explains why it made it
into the contract. It references that the specifics
of that are laid out in the rules because exactly
what you want me to do around the house might
change. But the basic expectation is that one
of the elements of my role is domestic service.
And so that is in the contract. It talks about
a requirement of me to immediately obey any order
or instructions, perform any actions demanded
by the owner. Again, because just because we
think we've thought of everything we possibly
can for the contract and the rules doesn't mean
that you're not going to want me to do other
stuff. sometimes and it's one of the things is
how we do that yeah kind of our internal language
i suppose or the language of our relationship
it can is probably very different to your average
non -kinky type of relationship where if i see
that a task needs to be done around the house
outside of this context i might i will either
do it or i will say this needs to be done who's
going to do it yeah whereas within this context
i will identify that the litter trays need doing
yeah it's like I need you to deal with the letter
trade today. Yeah. Not even a please or a thank
you. Yeah. Which has been another thing that
I've loved seeing develop in you because very
early on we introduced domestic service into
the relationship. Even before we were living
together, when I came over, I would wash up.
That's just what I do when I'm submissive to
someone. But when you first started embracing
that, it was very much, please, can you do this?
Yeah. And you would always ask, are you comfortable
doing all of that yourself? You were still very
much giving me an out. Yeah, yeah. And now, I
mean, sometimes if I've got a to -do list with
20 things on it, you do still sometimes say,
do you need any help with anything? Which is
very sweet. But I never take you up on that because
it feels important to me to fulfil that role.
Yeah. And you have got more comfortable with
that over time where you don't, it's not a question
anymore. Yeah. You've really embraced that. Yeah,
that took some getting used to. Yeah. And, you
know. I'm not going to lie. Having a domestic
servant is pretty amazing. I would recommend
it to anyone who is thinking about getting into
a total power exchange type of dynamic to make
sure that you include domestic service in it
because I don't need to do the laundry. Yeah.
I don't need to do the dishes. Yeah. You know,
that's pretty sweet. To be honest. The other
day you couldn't remember which bin was the normal
rubbish and which one was the recycling because
it's been that long since you had to put it in
the bin. Yes. Yes, I did have a moment of I've
completely forgotten where these things go. Just
a complete aside, it's something that I'm conscious
of as well. I don't want to be completely useless.
It is one of the risks that's worth talking about.
I know my ex had trouble when we split up because
we'd had domestic service as part of our relationship.
And she'd gone from living with family to living
with a submissive to living on her own. Yeah,
yeah. I mean, she only just found out she's got
a Hoover in her flat. She's been living there
for years. I've only just found out she's got
a Hoover. So, yeah, it is a risk. There are risks.
Sorry, what I really liked about that exchange
is where you pointed out that the Hoover has
lived there longer than she has. Yeah. Yeah,
and she genuinely had no idea. But yeah, the
risks in kink that people are really conscious
of is things like, you know, if you put a plastic
bag on someone's head, they might suffocate and
die. Obvious physical risks. Some of the risks
that can really creep up on you is things like
if you haven't had to do any of your own housework
for a decade and then your partner leaves you,
dies, gets really sick, you have to learn life
skills from scratch. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot
of stuff like that in power exchange that can
sneak up on you where... elements of independence
become eroded and i don't think that's a bad
thing i think all humans are quite interdependent
and it's healthy we're a social species but being
conscious of it is important yeah no i agree
anyway i will continue um this section also talks
about the fact that i will accept punishment
for breaches of the rules i would say i probably
go above and beyond on this one because i'm usually
the one reminding you that i yes i should be
punished and shouldn't be let off things though
you have definitely you have worked on being
stricter with discipline which i really appreciate
as well because that's something i need for my
sanity yeah um it's another kind of interesting
thing that i've learned i suppose is is because
quite often in the earlier stages of this you
would break a rule that was you needed to do
a task today and you run out of time or you haven't
got the capacity to do it or whatever and i would
kind of be like life happens it's not like you've
deliberately set out to break a rule yeah So
it was like, it's that difference between life
just happening and malicious non -compliance.
Yeah. With the rule you deliberately set out
to break the rule, therefore you should be punished
for it. And I think what was important to hear
from you was that, no, actually, even if the
situation was entirely out of my control, I still
didn't do what I was supposed to do. Yeah. And
therefore there should be consequences. Otherwise
the rules become less important. Yeah. And it
means next time I might just go, well, I know
I can get away with it and I can't be bothered
and I don't believe I would ever do that consciously.
But it's something that starts to creep up and
drift. And so much of how dominance and submission
works is I see it very much as an exchange of
energy, not just a power and authority. Where
we're both having to feed this. We're both having
to give 100 % of ourselves into this to create
what we create. If I'm not giving 100 % to following
the rules and then you're not giving 100 % to
the discipline and then I'm not giving 100 %
to following the rules because I know that you're
not giving 100 % to the discipline and then you
get so used to me breaking the rules that you
give even less to the discipline. It starts to
unravel very quickly. So that's something that
it was never a criticism exactly. It was more
of a... I wanted to reassure you that what I
needed was for you to step into that power. Because
it's good for me. It's not you being harsh. It's
not you being cruel. And it's not you being not
understanding. If you were like shouting at me
and calling me a useless piece of shit for breaking
a rule, that's a different conversation. But
you saying, okay, I understand how that's happened.
I'm not mad. But there's a consequence to that.
Yeah. It's very beneficial to me. Yeah. That
makes a lot of sense. This section also covers
that I need to be completely honest and truthful
with you, which is something that comes very
naturally to me. But again, I like having it
formalised. Again, it talks about me needing
to show you respect at all times, whether that's
to your face or how I speak about you privately
with other people, which is something that, again,
I would just do. But I have noticed from having
this as... as something that's formal, how relatively
uncommon that is. And I don't mean people are
being nasty about their partners or anything
like that, but how common it is for people in
relationships to sort of roll their eyes and
take the piss out of their partner and things
like that. And I will make jokes. Jokes are different.
Things about your love of spreadsheets and stuff.
Yes. I will absolutely have a little laugh about
that, but not... contempt there's a very clear
difference between making fun of your partner
in a loving way and showing them contempt yeah
yeah contempt is surprisingly common in how people
talk about their partner when they're not present
and i don't think it's generally with any kind
of malice behind it people i think are really
not that conscious of it but because this is
something that is part of the contract yeah i
think that's something that i would never allow
to creep in because because it's against my responsibilities
that are in the contract it's not something that
can just sneak into my way of talking about you
without being conscious of it yeah Yeah. And,
you know, we watch the silly little reality shows
on Netflix, don't we? And quite often we will
look at each other and go, these two don't sound
like they just don't like each other. Yeah. Why
would you be in a relationship with a person
that you just don't like? Yeah. What's that about?
And this section also lays out that I am required
to serve in general, not just the domestic service,
but... Being of use to you in general, both in
public and in private. Obviously, in public,
it's in ways that are socially acceptable and
can be done discreetly. So, for example, free
use for sexual service is not going to be something
that we do in the middle of a crowded restaurant.
No. But me fetching you a drink might be. Yeah.
So the next section is specifically about free
use. Yes. This section goes into that in a lot
more detail. And again, this is as much about
kind of total power exchange and that kind of
headspace of control as it is about just being
really hot. Yeah. You know? So it starts off
literally, the slave is a free sexual object
for the owner. It talks about how I can essentially
do anything I like to you, make you do anything
I like, as long as it doesn't violate your hard
limits, which are pretty limited. yeah it's a
short list it is a very very short list it has
some caveats in there about actually you should
you you should communicate when you're physically
feeling physically or mentally unwell yeah as
in in line with your responsibility to be open
but actually the decision rests with me yeah
and that one is honestly out of all of the the
rules that i have to follow and the responsibilities
i have under the contract telling you when i'm
sick is one of the hardest ones because i know
you'll go easy on me and i very rarely want you
to like if i'm really really ill if i've got
like a proper blinding migraine then i want to
communicate that to you and i really don't want
you to slap me around the head for example yeah
yeah but if i'm just feeling a little bit under
the weather every time i have to tell you because
it's it's my responsibility I am just dying inside.
I am not getting hit today. I am probably not
getting any sex today. I'm not going to get ordered
around and made to sit on the floor. I'm not
even going to get put in the dog crate. Nothing's
going to happen to me today. Because, I mean,
you've been starting to lean into... for use
a little bit more and started to push a little
bit more. But still, I know your instinct when
I'm sick is to be really easy on me. And I'm
like, if I could just not tell you, if I could
just lie, if I was allowed to do that, I totally
would. And I think that's the thing that I really
like about that clause in the other section is
it isn't just about being honest. It's really
specific. You have to tell the truth. You cannot
lie. You cannot lie by omission. Yeah. You know,
it does require you to be really open and honest
about that. Some of that is just about control.
But a lot of that is about, well, actually, if
I've got all of the power, I need all of the
information so that I can wield that power responsibly.
And I think you are right that if you tell me
that you're poorly, I will tend to go a little
bit easier on you. And that's something I'm trying
to find the right balance with. It's like how
poorly is too poorly. I think my power thresholds
for that are clearly in very different places.
The bar is a lot lower for me. for for you to
be too poorly to want to do something partly
because when i'm poorly the last thing i want
to do is have sex yeah i just want to die on
the couch whenever i'm with it whereas that's
not that's not your experience no i'm pretty
much always up for for doing some stuff i generally
if i'm feeling ill my ideal would be for you
to take it a little bit easier on me but still
still have rough sex still do kinky stuff yeah
just maybe things like not hitting me in the
face if i've got a headache um yeah yeah like
things like that that's not gonna make me actively
worse but suffering through it a little bit is
enjoyable to me and if i've got a fever i'm always
horny yeah you get proper proper feral and i've
got a fever yeah so it's the worst there's been
a couple of times when i've had flu And all I
want to do is play nonstop. Yeah. Like, I need
you to take it a little bit easy on me because
I'm still kind of dying, but I want to do stuff
every day. Yeah. And you're like, no, I'm going
to tuck you up in bed and that's fine. And it's
like, I haven't come in a week and I've got a
fever, please. Which is also a fun way of doing
orgasm control and orgasm denial. If you are
too sick, you are too sick, you are poor Bailey,
you need to rest. Hate that. So this section
also talks about safe words. So you do not have
access to a safe word within our dynamic. When
in private, you are still required to communicate.
You're expected to communicate when you feel
that you're at your limits. But what I do with
that information is my choice. Yes. Which might
include continuing. Yeah. Again, I don't think
that's something necessarily other than in a
specific scene where that's the point. I don't
think that's something that I've kind of pushed
too far. When you say that you're having a really
bad time and you're kind of reaching your limits,
I do default to dialing back a little bit because
I think that's the responsible thing to do. And
I think one of the things that I have had to
spend a lot of time thinking about is just because
I can doesn't mean I should. And where does that
line sit? Where's the line between? I can or
I will become something that will be really hot
and fun and would be distressing to you, but
ultimately in a way that is enjoyable to you?
Yeah. And when does because I can, I will become
actually distressing? I'm definitely seeing you
grow in confidence with that, though. There's
obviously the unhinged whipping that we did at
camping, but it was very pre -negotiated where
you were not going to stop. Yeah. But just when
we're playing in general, you check in less,
you are better at reading the difference between...
I'm having a bad time, but it's the kind of bad
time I want it to have. And that is a much bigger
reaction than I expected. So let's ask some questions
about what's going on there. I think in the past,
if I started properly crying and hyperventilating
during a scene, you would at the very least have
checked in. But now, if you've been hitting me
hard enough that that was an expected reaction,
you just kind of get on with it. The times when
you tend to check in is more if we're doing something
that was planned to be fairly light. And then
I start having a really strong reaction to it.
People tend to sort of ask, like, is this because
something's going wrong or are you just having
a low pain threshold that you kind of want to
know what's going on? Yeah, yeah. Which is useful
and important. And you've definitely got more
comfortable with keeping me in that genuinely
bad time zone. As long as you can tell that I'm
not, like, having a full -on mental health crisis
over it. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, I'm suffering
a bit in the way that we both want me to. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I think part of that has been you
learning to read me really well as well. So you
can see that fine line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think
that just comes with time and experience, doesn't
it? Kind of recognising how you respond to different
things. Yeah. So within the context of you not
having a safe word and not being able to revoke
consent, there is still a caveat to that about
when that applies in private. Yeah. So if we're
playing at a venue, if we're going to a public
play event, we default to the house rule that...
the house um safe word is available to you yeah
you have a choice about whether you use it or
not but in order to comply with the rules yeah
as you would expect anyone else to be that safe
word applies and if there are situations where
you are playing with other people you have access
to the safe words red and amber at all times
even if i'm there yeah because it's not fair
on other people to impose kind of no safe word
on them um but also allows for that little bit
of extra safety yeah and just as we didn't go
no safe word until we've been together for quite
a while and you were good at reading my reactions
and i had a high enough level of trust that i
could handle things that i maybe couldn't with
a casual partner yeah if i'm playing with someone
else my ability to feel comfortable playing with
no safe word is is going to be quite different
yeah yeah that makes sense um So the last part
of this section on free use is about, in good
legal speak, third parties. Third parties. So
really clear expectation in the contract that
you don't have any other sexual or play partners
except on my instruction. Yeah. So you don't
seek to play or sexual play or kinky play with
other people. Independent. Yeah. There's a clause
in there about how that works. If you are approached
by someone for playing, your response is to direct
them to me. And if that person isn't willing
to do that, then you decline their approach.
Yeah, which is something that is always a source
of controversy in kink spaces, but it's something
that is very important to me for various reasons.
Partly it's about the fact that I completely
see myself as your property. So the idea of someone
coming to me as a piece of property and asking
to use me. which is how I would perceive that.
Yeah. Just doesn't feel the right way around.
They need to come to you first out of respect.
And I understand people's, the sort of opposing
view on that is they don't want to become part
of someone's dynamic. But if you are asking to
play with someone who is owned, you are part
of the dynamic. You are, even if you're not comfortable
with that, don't play with people who are owned.
You know, because of the level of power exchange
that we have and the way that I see myself in
relation to you, there is no way of playing with
me that doesn't involve you. because I do not
fully exist as a whole person outside of you.
And if that's not comfortable for people, if
that's not something they want, then that's absolutely
fine. It just means we're not compatible. Another
element of it for me, though, is a safety thing
because of the way that submission works for
me and the way that I get into this place at
this stage of our relationship when we've been
together a while where we don't use safe words,
where I don't have the right to revoke consent,
where we have absolute 24 -7 free use. ongoing
in our relationship i am quite conditioned not
to say no to very much yeah it's for fun unless
we're doing something where you want me to say
no. I'm very, very compliant and very obedient
and it would be very easy to slip into that headspace
with someone else that I was playing with or
negotiating play with where I'm not very good
at asserting my own boundaries. So having some
oversight from you is actually a protective factor
for me. And it's also just a comfort thing as
well. The thing that I dislike when I'm single
and when I'm actively seeking play is I don't
particularly like being sexualised by strangers.
I don't like the... the sort of flirty banter
and stuff that happens early in the process.
I find the early stages of anything quite stressful
and difficult. I like to have as little involvement
in that as I can. So being in a position where
you can just lend me to someone, and yes, I still
have to be involved in negotiation because you
have to. That's a thing that you have to do.
But where you have done the initial part of that
and you have the final approval on it and I just
have to express some preferences and opinions
in the middle, it feels a lot more comfortable
and safe for me. Yeah, no, you're right. And
I was just going to say, you are completely absent
from that process. If somebody approaches me
to say, oh, I want to play with Carizzo, or I
tell you, you need to go and play with that person,
do something with that person, you're involved
in that process of how that would feel for you,
what you would do, the negotiation that you would
expect to see if you were doing it fully independently
for yourself. Yeah. It's the start and the finish
of that. yeah where i have the control everything
comes through me i have the final say yeah and
it is a dead interesting thing about that kind
of you know if it when kind of people get a little
bit up a height about it going well i don't consent
to being part of your dynamic and it's like well
at this point you're not we're saying this is
the this this is the yeah this is the price of
admission yeah pay it or don't yeah it's purely
a compatibility thing i think like either people
are comfortable with with you having that oversight
or they're not And if they're not, there are
loads of people who negotiate DS relationships
where the dynamic stops as soon as any interaction
with another person's happening. So if one person,
whether it's the dominant or the submissive,
is negotiating play with another play partner,
apart from keeping their partner informed of
it, you know, being transparent and honest, they
have no involvement and those people exist. Go
play with them. yeah yeah and that's perfectly
yeah yeah totally valid way of way of doing it
it's it's yeah it's that kind of pearl clutching
of all that violates my consent it's like no
i'm describing to you how my dynamic works if
you don't want to be a part of that don't proceed
any further yeah no one's consent has been violated
at this point you don't need to consent to other
people's boundaries no that's a really good way
of putting it yeah yeah yeah yeah it's um and
the last bit of that Is the exact opposite because
there's a clause in there about me. Yeah. I have
the absolute right to, we should probably say
seek, actually in there. You can't just grab
them. It makes me sound a little bit predatory.
So for the avoidance of doubt for our listeners,
I have the absolute right to seek other sexual
or play partners. Yes. And my only responsibility.
to you in that respect are to make you aware
of those plans and to take necessary precautions
to safeguard our health yeah so making sure that
i'm tested making sure that the people are tested
making sure that if i do things that involve
bloody impact that i'm careful with the implements
that i use all that um sort of sort of stuff
which again i just think is a really good juxtaposition
oh i like to use big words don't i yeah in the
in in on this on this podcast of where for you
Your rights in this regard are really, really
restricted and I have lots of control over how
that goes. But I can do what I like. Within a
couple of pretty standard parameters. Yeah. Like,
don't come back and give me a disease and don't
lie to me about it. Yeah. That's pretty much
it. Yeah, yeah. Like, as... as situations go
that's pretty cool and again that's something
that was really important felt like it was really
important to you for me to have that freedom
even if you didn't have that freedom yourself
because you didn't want that freedom yourself
yeah but it's been a kind of it's been a dead
interesting thing for me to think about for myself
of it's actually quite nice to have that permission
within a relationship to have that level of trust
within a relationship that actually I could just
do that. Yeah. I could just go off and do that.
But it has also forced me to reckon with the
perception of myself that I have, that I am not
kinky enough, cool enough or attractive enough
for that to be relevant. Which is exactly why
I wanted you to have it. There are other reasons
as well. I like that difference in power and
freedom. So I enjoy the fact that I can't do
that and you can. But also... Very quickly after
I started dating you, I realised that you needed
your confidence and your self -worth to be higher.
You needed to work on that. And this does force
you to confront that because if you want to fully
enjoy the freedom that that gives you, you have
to accept that you're a desirable person that
multiple people will want to play with and fuck.
And you must learn that. You must learn it. This
is like a wild... even though I know that that
is objectively true. Yeah. Like, that has happened.
In your life, yes. In my life. You know, in the
time that we've been together, I have played
with and done kinky things with other people
while I've been in this relationship with you.
So there are, you know, there are some people
out there who like me, who think I am sufficiently
of value to do that with. Yeah. So even though
I know that is objectively true, I still really
have to kind of confront that and reckon with
if I'm going to approach other people or if I'm
going to accept approaches from other people
for those kind of things, that, like I say, I
am kinky enough, cool enough and attractive enough
for that to happen. It's a really weird space
to be in my head. Yeah. And I think another reason
that I like this imbalance, the way that it is,
is because I have, you have more years of experience
of kink. than me but i have a larger number of
previous kinky partners i've had a previous total
power exchange dynamic i've done a lot of very
sort of casual one -off hookup play um and even
like pre -kink for me i've also had a lot more
sexual partners than you because i used to be
a sex worker i've had a couple of truly epic
slut phases like like five hookups in a night
level slut phases so i i don't expect that your
body count is going to catch up to mine But I
think it's good for you to have the option to
continue to wrap up some experience where I've
probably had my fair share. Yeah, that's fair.
That's fair. I mean, if your body count does
catch up to mine, I'll be very impressed. Yeah,
yeah, that would take some, that would really
take some doing. I don't think I am, even if
I accept that I am kinky enough, cool enough
and attractive enough, I don't think I'm that.
Not at that level. Not social enough. That is
my biggest yes. Thank you for that. So the next
section is all about rules and protocol. And
just as we've got a separate document to actually
cover these in detail, it's important to create
the underpinning structure. that I keep going
on and on and on about, about what those are
actually for and how they function. We don't
just have a list of rules, we have the structure
around it about how those are used and makes
that make sense. So it obviously references the
document. and that it is separate to the contract
that lists those and how they are enforced. And
the purpose of those, it says, is to define the
standards that the owner requires, expects and
demands the slave to live and abide by at all
times and in all situations for the duration
of the contract, making it really, really clear
that those rules are not optional. They are not
just there some of the time. They are as important
as the contract. They are just more likely to
change. It also mentions that all of the rules
apply equally. Because much as we aim to set
up the rules so they're consistent with each
other and don't create any kind of conflicts
or disagreement, it is possible that there might
be times where we haven't fully thought through
the implications of some of those rules and a
situation might come up where they appear to
be in conflict with each other. And it then specifies
how to deal with that. So I would seek instruction
from you on what we do with that and how you
want me to prioritise those rules. And again,
it's one of those things where you have input
into it. You can raise questions and raise concerns.
But I have the final say on how that goes. Yeah,
absolutely. And it mentions in this section,
you can also give other instructions or orders
to comply with. So I cannot use as a defence,
well, that's not a rule, so I don't have to do
it. I do occasionally say that because it's funny.
But then I get on with it. Then you get on with
it, yeah. And again, another one of my favourite
little terms of legalese, shout out to H at my
former employer. the owner may at their absolute
discretion. At their absolute discretion, yes.
Although, to be fair, I think the phrase that
that person used to use was at their sole discretion,
at their absolute discretion. Just a lovely little
bit of legalese that I very much enjoy. Yeah.
Because I'm a nerd. and something that i really
like that's in here that we kind of forgot was
in here it was in the original um template that
i used it was in my contract with my ex and then
we just carried it over into this one and they
kind of both forgot about it for a good while
yeah yeah was if the slave cannot immediately
obey an instruction or rule it must kneel in
front of the owner and state why it cannot complete
the instruction and submit to the owner's judgment
which is really really it's a really hot little
bit of protocol yeah yeah and we sort of forgot
it was there Yeah, yeah. And it became quite
informal for a while, where if there was something
that I couldn't do or that I needed some flexibility
on, I would just go, hey, is it all right if
I do the washing up tomorrow because I'm tired
or something like that? And you would go, yeah,
yeah, yeah, that's fine. Or no, actually, I need
it done now. And we would continue on with our
lives. And then we sort of, at a review at some
point, we were reminded of this. I'm like, actually,
let's start doing this. And I love that now.
Often the outcome will still be, yeah, it's fine,
do it tomorrow. But it's still that reminder
of my position and my role. Yeah, yeah, that
little bit of protocol. Yeah. Kind of. kind of
sprinkled into daily life. Yeah. And I don't
know how we forgot about it. I guess it's one
clause in a six -page, two -and -a -half -thousand
-word document, I suppose, so you're not going
to remember all of it. Yeah. I think it's because
it's something we weren't already doing. It's
something that we hadn't thought of until we
were looking at the contract, and that was already
there in the one that you were using as a kind
of jumping -off point. Yeah. And we talked about
it, like, do we want to take this out because
we don't do it? It's like, actually, no, let's
leave it in and do it. And then we immediately
forgot about it. Yeah. Which is why actually
looking over this stuff regularly is good because
it brings it back into the forefront of your
mind and go, no, let's do the thing. Yeah. No,
no, I agree. It's really, really good. And kind
of hot as well. It is, yeah. Having you kneel
in front of me and beg for absolution. Yeah.
It's quite nice. Yeah. I like it. um and this
section also talks about punishment which is
again something that we lay out in a lot of detail
in the rules which we'll be talking about in
the next episode but in the contract it talks
about your responsibility to enforce the rules
with all of the authority that you have yeah
um and that i can expect to be punished for each
and every breach of the rules which is about
both setting my expectations that there will
be consequences to bad behavior but also again
setting out that responsibility to you to yeah
to enforce that discipline because that's something
that i thrive on yeah um it mentions that you
will ensure that the punishment is proportionate
to the breach that led to it so you're not going
to necessarily pick the harshest one on there
and apply it to the harshest degree that you
can for some minor slip -up there's something
about kind of cumulative yeah rule breaks as
well so so you're right if you if you forget
your medication one fairly minor punishment if
you forget it five times then actually in a short
space of time yeah then actually that that's
where that proportionality comes in and going
yeah you need to learn to stop doing this gotta
teach me to learn gotta teach you to learn and
oh yeah i really like that yeah kind of going
through it now like the thought that has gone
into it is yeah is enormous considering it was
over a year ago now that we did it yeah we put
a lot of work into it it's quite a long process
and it was a really fun process yeah And this
also talks about changes to the rules as well.
So either of us can suggest new rules and it
also does give you the right to at your absolute
discretion. At your absolute discretion. That's
the third time in one section that I've used
that. I was really enjoying that. You were enjoying
that one, yeah. But at your absolute discretion,
you can add, remove or amend any rule. In realistic
terms, there is always a discussion around it.
But again, it's that sort of confirmation of
the power that you have, that you don't have
to seek my input. yeah you have to listen respectfully
to it if i give it yeah but you can't just say
hey there's a new rule it's in there now start
following it yeah yeah and i can have opinions
on it but you have the final say yeah and again
it's not necessarily a power that i've used a
lot i have threatened it a couple of times but
over city things yeah i feel like um rather you've
definitely threatened to put it in the rules
that i can't steal the clothes yes yes and then
you have made the really good point that you
look quite good in a lot of my jeans so yeah
which does take the wind out of my sails um just
slightly but then the next section is about limits
and exclusions um so it talks about um this is
a lot about my responsibilities within the contract
so we'll we will both always abide by um any
hard limits that are set out in the rules and
there are some hard limits set out um in the
rules but not many um making sure that we're
taking reasonable steps to protect each other's
safety um and only um you know responsibility
for me to make sure that i don't submit you to
any act or do anything to you without kind of
thinking through and discussing the risks yeah
are involved as we've talked about in previous
episodes our approach to kink kind of broadly
aligns best with rack for risk aware consensual
kink it is about understanding the risks and
acting accordingly yeah um which is which is
really important um to both of us um And then
there are some things in there about kind of
the wider, our place in the world. Yeah. I suppose,
which kind of sets some limits and exclusions
around our contract. So I'm not going to make
you do anything which is going to like, it could
result in a criminal charge or a conviction.
And we specifically said likely to result in
criminal charge or conviction because there's
a lot of kink that falls into some legal grey
areas. Yeah. So we're not taking things off the
table just because there potentially could lead
to that. It's things that are likely. Yeah. So
telling me to go and get naked in the middle
of a public street, for example, would be very
likely to get me arrested. Yeah. Yeah, that's
fair. I'm not going to ask you to do that. So
I'm not, equally though, not going to make you,
I won't submit to the slaves or make you do anything
or do anything to you that is going to violate
or likely to violate the consent of other people.
Yeah. Or do things in a setting where other people
aren't able to consent prior to it taking place.
Yeah. So, you know, kind of that really is talking
about kind of kinking in public spaces. And everyone
has a line there, I suppose, in terms of that.
I guess it's back to something that is in an
earlier part of the contract about kind of observing
protocol in a way that is considered socially
acceptable or acceptable in the situations that
we're in. that part of it is about being subtle
and mindful of where you are yeah this part is
is more specifically about actually not doing
things which people won't have consented to yeah
in in public spaces and the line for me around
that is things that definitely shouldn't happen
in public is nudity sex acts and acts of violence
things that we were likely to find distressing
to witness yeah i don't personally think it's
it's a violation of consent to be weird in public
yeah probably a whole episode or a bigger discussion
yeah exactly where that line is and there's definitely
some gray areas and room for different people
to interpret things differently and have their
own perspectives but to me there's a very clear
difference between you spanking me in the middle
of a supermarket yeah and you you know subtly
whispering in my ear in the supermarket and insulting
me in a in a way that we find hot yeah you know
there's a difference there where one of those
things is is highly likely to cause distress
and offense to people yeah and another is something
that unless people are really making an effort
to eavesdrop in what we're doing it affects nobody
yeah yeah that's fair um and then i also won't
do anything that will um impact on your career
your study or relationship with friends and family
members yeah so you know we've talked about um
A really good example of kind of career, I suppose,
would be every now and again we do some kind
of break time violin where I make you come up
to the office or I come downstairs with something
horrible and I hit you with it while you're on
a break or on your lunch. Me coming and doing
that while you're on an important team's meeting
with important people. is not okay no because
that was that's bleeding into areas of the life
where where i have no right to yeah that would
not only be a consent issue but also would likely
lead to me losing my job yeah so that's that's
a major negative impact on me as well as others
yeah yeah and the last bit on there is um about
neither of us can enter into or seek uh separate
romantic relationships yeah um so we put that
in the limits and exclusions so to kind of sit
alongside our um our agreement about other people
for sexual play yeah we are you know romantically
monogamous um and monogamish probably yeah it's
a silly word but i like it i really like monogamish
yeah it fought and i the thing i like as well
about this being in the contract is although
the contract is very much about the the power
exchange element of our relationship not really
about our romantic relationship the contract
is also something that places a lot of limitations
around my right to revoke consent including to
leave the relationship so if you were to form
a romantic relationship with someone else if
you were to to emotionally cheat on me I would
hope that we would both be committed enough to
this to want to resolve that problem and stay
together. But it is important that I have the
right to go, actually, you've betrayed my trust
to a point where I want to walk away from this.
If this part wasn't in the contract, I wouldn't
have the right officially with what we agreed
to break up with you for cheating on me. And
I certainly hope that we're never at that point.
But it's an important right to have. So that's
why, you know, that's not really a DS thing.
It's in the contract because it needs to be.
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, for all we said at
the start that this isn't a legally binding contract,
we're acting like it is. Yeah. We're making a
commitment. Yeah. Yeah. So it's important to
have that in there. So we then have a section
about contract review. So our original contract
was a set term contract for a year. And this
section in that contract was about as we come
to the end of the contract, we need to start
reviewing it a month before we need to be preparing
to sign a replacement. So it's a little different
now because this contract is designed to be one
that can. run indefinitely um but we are agreed
still that we're going to do an annual review
of this so as well as the monthly review that
we do of just our relationship in general do
a contract review once a year the outcome of
that may be that we just leave the contract exactly
as it is and look at it in a year or it might
be that we we agree some changes which we would
approach as equals that we were both going to
have equal input into and then if we do decide
to make changes to it we would create a new contract
which we would then sign And that would immediately
replace this one. And that might be another indefinite
contract. I can't imagine there'd be a reason
why we'd want to step that back to a limited
term, but we would have that option if we wanted
to. Literally anything that's in this contract
could be changed at that point. And as long as
we both agree, we'll sign it and move forward
with that. And this section also talks about
the monthly check -in as well, which I've touched
on and is something that we talked about quite
a lot in our episode on communication. which
the monthly check -in it would be quite rare
that we would look in any depth at the contract
but we do tend to look at the rules in quite
a lot of detail and also talk about things like
play events things that are kind of going on
for us on a day -to -day so it's a really good
just general check -up of how things are yeah
yeah yeah but again i like that you know there's
a there's a little there's a clause in there
about kind of that monthly check -in and the
annual check -in i suppose um there's not a replacement
for just talking to each other yeah as as we
go We don't necessarily save up things for a
review. If something comes up, we talk about
it. If we've got a suggestion for a new rule
or a change to the rule, we talk about it. We
might say, let's put a pin in it and then agree
that when we have our review. it's an ongoing
discussion so the assumption within the contract
and the rules is that both owner and slave will
abide by them at all times but this lays out
how there might be some times where there might
be reasons where we would benefit from time limited
adjustments to either the contract itself or
the rules It makes it really clear that both
of us have the responsibility to communicate
that, whether it's about ourselves or the other
person. So it's easy to say, you know, I've got
flu. I need to just be able to lie in bed and
do nothing all week. It's maybe a little bit
harder to challenge another person and say, your
mental health doesn't seem to be in a good place
right now and I feel like you're doing too much.
I want you to kind of ease off. This makes it
clear we both have the responsibility to do that
because that's an important thing too. Yeah,
I agree. And then if that happens, we agree what
the adjustment is. We have a conversation about
how long we might need to do that for. Yeah.
And then we would revert back. Yeah. And the
time that we revert back is by mutual agreement.
So this section really does sort of pull it back
to that foundation of equality that I talk about
where, yes, the authority is transferred in this
relationship. Yes, the power is transferred in
this relationship. But when it comes to our mutual
well -being, we are both involved in. making
decisions together to make sure that's protected
yeah yeah no i agree um and then the last i think
this is the last last substantive section anyone
um is around kind of termination and breach contract
and again all good contracts have something in
about termination but this is again a really
one of those sections which really drives home
the the the exchange of power yeah and the different
kind of positions we we have accepted as part
of this contract where um Essentially, I can
terminate the contract for any reason at any
time. Yes. I can just do that, which just seems
wild to say out loud because I can't imagine
a situation where I would, whereas you don't
have a right to terminate the contract unless
there are specific situations that arise, I suppose,
in terms of breach of contract. So I have the
right to punish you for... breach of contract
without terminating it so if you break a rule
that is technically a breach of the contract
but i don't have to term i wouldn't terminate
it for those and there's nothing in here that
ever says you have to terminate it it's you have
that option but you can also choose to punish
or choose to communicate through things and yeah
yes however you want yeah yeah um but for your
on your side of it if i breach any of my responsibilities
as i set out in the contract then you can terminate
terminate it at your discretion yeah um which
i guess i suppose goes back to when we were talking
about kind of romantic relationships yeah that
would be a really it's a really clear example
of the kind of thing that might happen in some
version of reality where actually that would
be too far for you and that that gives you that
kind of ability within the context of this contract
to to terminate it yeah um i i think this is
a really interesting one because like i say drives
home the power exchange in it but it is also
one of those where you just kind of think you
would talk about it though yeah and that's why
it doesn't say either of us ever has to terminate
the contract it's yeah if we are the people that
we think we are we're going to try to talk our
way through any problems whether that's our relationship
as a whole or specifically the power exchange
elements of it we we're going to want to repair
it before we give up on it but it's important
that both of us have at least some right to do
that yeah because we really are irreparable yeah
i think it's important to mention as well that
This is specifically, it's a contract for our
power exchange. So in theory, either of us could
terminate the contract without necessarily ending
our relationship. I think because power exchange
and our romantic relationship are so tangled
up with each other, it's quite unlikely that
we would ever be ending one and not the other.
But theoretically we could. So if we were going
through some kind of major relationship problems,
if there had been something like cheating or
really major dishonesty or a huge amount of trust
in either direction, we might say, we can't be
doing this right now. We need to focus on the
basics and then come back to this. So there is
a possible version of this where the contract
is terminated, but that doesn't mean we're breaking
up. Hopefully. Neither of us ever have to use
it. No. That section is there to have in case,
but hopefully never needed. No. That's true.
So that's the main section. That is. All that's
left is our signatures. Yes. Which we will not
be showing because there is no video and also
because you don't get the full government names,
I'm afraid. No. That's our contract. It's taken
some joint effort and joint work to put it together,
but it feels like a really good basis for our...
power exchange and there's a lot of it that drives
home what we're trying to achieve through the
exchange of power um and it's one of those things
where it on the face of it it feels like kind
of fairly boring admin stuff and it's quite formal
yeah um you know a little bit dry and some of
my own prejudice is about really high protocol
tpe type total power exchange type dynamics in
the past is that they feel a little bit stiff
that's been my perception of it in the in the
past but we have a really high protocol dynamic
but i don't think necessarily having a formal
contract and a formal set of rules is is boring
or particularly formal i really like that i really
you know not just because i'm a contract nerd
but really enjoyed that process of drafting the
contract up and getting the rules right. Yeah,
it felt very intimate and it feels like a real
opportunity to reflect on. At that time, it was
to reflect on the 10 months of the relationship
that we've had so far and how far we've come,
how much we've learned about each other, how
much we had committed to meeting each other's
needs. how good our communication was all of
that stuff yeah yeah the contract kind of distills
it down and gives you a chance to to look at
your relationship summed up in a couple of pages
really yeah yeah and go wow we we made that yeah
yeah yeah we do that we have made that together
which is really yeah it's really nice yeah it's
really it's really lovely and and i think it's
an opportunity that that i think is sometimes
missing in in not in all relationships but in
some relationships I think it's an opportunity
to reflect on the relationship when we do the
reviews, when we do the admin and the updating.
Yes. I think the best way I can describe it is
to use a work example. So I used to have a job
where I would be doing service improvement and
looking at processes and stuff like that. And
they had those kind of people like me doing that
job separate to the people who were doing the
work, doing the process day to day. It's because
sometimes you are so busy doing the work that
you don't have time to think about the work.
Yeah. And I think that kind of analogy kind of
applies equally to relationships. Sometimes you're
so busy just being in the relationship that you're
not really consciously thinking about the relationship.
You're just living it. And the admin forces us
to have that kind of reflective time to actually
specifically and consciously sit down and think
about our relationship and think about what's
going well, what could be better, what do we
want to change. what are our plans where are
we going which i think is really special yeah
it's really important that we have that alongside
just the way that we talk to each other day to
day but having those kind of fixed points where
we come together and go okay let's talk about
this i think i think a lot of people in a lot
of relationships would benefit from from a little
bit of that maybe not to the extent of having
a really formal legal contract yeah but that
conscious effort yeah because most relationships
most non -kinky and even a lot of kinky relationships
for sure don't need a contract but maybe there's
something there that that people could steal
in the taking the time to talk through exactly
what the structure of the relationship is maybe
if it never even goes down in writing but Taking
that time, going through that process like we
did when we were coming up with our contract,
talking about what are the values that we want
to bring into this relationship? What are the
commitments that we're making to each other?
Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah. See, I would go... You think
everyone needs a contract. Yeah, it doesn't need
to be as legalese as perhaps ours is, but that
was done for a specific purpose. Yeah. You know,
we had a reason for writing it the way that we
did. But... You know, there is a clause in our
contract which says if there are any... It talks
about interpretation, talks about disagreement.
If you're entering into a relationship and what
you've got is a verbal agreement, verbal contract,
no -one's ever going to remember that perfectly.
Yeah, yeah. So actually there is... I think there
is something for me about, actually, let's write
it down. These are the things that we promise
each other. Yeah. You know? Like when people
get married and they write their own vows. Yeah.
And they're... that's an opportunity for people
to say to each other, these are the promises
that I make to you in this relationship. There's
something in that for me. I suppose that's what
marriage is. It's the contract for a couple.
Except that's one where the vows might be personal,
but the contract is something that's set by the
government or by your religion or a combination
of the two. Where this is like, what does this
commitment mean to us? Let's write it from scratch.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I just think there's something,
yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm being ridiculous.
I just think there's something in that. I think
if more couples did that sort of thing, no matter
the type of relationship they've got, then it
would probably save a lot of arguments. Probably.
I definitely feel like, you know, this debate
happens about are kinky people better at communicating
or not? And I don't think that we necessarily
are at all. But there is definitely something
to... The way that kink encourages you to think
about communication and the structuring of your
relationship and the way that you sort of personalise
relationships and intimacy and communication
to fit the needs of the people involved. Where
I think if I woke up one day and was like, I'm
just not kinky anymore. I want a completely vanilla
relationship and a completely vanilla sex life.
There is so much stuff from this period of my
life that I would carry forward with me. Things
like having a monthly check -in and having some
sort of commitments for the relationship written
down somewhere. Because it's really valuable
in any type of relationship. Yeah. Yeah, I think
it is. And, you know, there you go. That's my
two pence worth. I think that was an excellent
way to round things off with a tangent with a
good point to it. Excellent. I do love a good
tangent. You do. And a good point. See you next
time.