Welcome to Don't Scare the Newbies, a podcast
where we talk about kink, raw and unfiltered.
I'm Kirizal, a lifestyle submissive in a 24
-7 dynamic who likes their kink heavy, intense
and scary. And I'm S, Kirizal's dominant who
knows how to deliver all of the above. And today
it's our first episode so we're going to be introducing
ourselves and telling you all about us getting
ready for the podcast. I'm so excited. Hello.
I've never seen you so terrified of a phone before.
Yes. So I should probably kick things off while
you're having your fear here. So this is the
first episode of Don't Scare the Newbies, a brand
new podcast about kink. Some of you will know
me already. My name is Kirizal and I have been
talking about kink on TikTok for quite a while
and thought it was time to branch out. But I'm
really curious, Mx, why did you decide to get
involved in a podcast? Because you made me. That's
not how this dynamic works. That is true. That
is true. That is mostly not how this dynamic
works. I think the main, if I'm being honest,
the main reason is because you're really interested
in doing a podcast and you were really excited
to try a different format and try a different
way of talking to people about kink. And you
were really clear that you needed a co -host,
someone to bounce off, ideally. someone with
a different perspective on kink. And I was in
the room at the time. And the different perspective
that I think is really valuable that you bring
is obviously you're a dominant, you're my dominant.
So you almost have the opposite perspective on
a lot of things, which I think will be good.
Yeah, hopefully. I mean, we do tend to agree
on quite a lot of... Like the general things
about what we tend to agree on. So this might
be just me, you saying something and me going,
hmm, yes, I agree. Yes. Well, I'm sure that'll
be good too. I think this is good as well, because
we talk a lot about you being like an anxious
dog that I have to socialise. Yes. You know,
before we lived together, you did not have people
in your house. And then I moved in and it was
like, let's do brunch club. Let's invite friends
to socialise. Yes, awful. And I'm sure we'll
touch on this more later, but I dragged you along
to kink events as well. So this is just the next
step. and me encouraging you to talk to more
people potentially quite a lot of people quite
a lot of people oh god no and that's and that's
something that i i still struggle to understand
i recognize that you are in my eyes you are a
famous person and you sometimes get recognized
in the street and i just don't understand why
people would be interested in the partner in
in in me i'm just Just a little guy. I mean,
I don't even really understand why people are
interested in me. Like my TikTok kind of happened
by mistake. And I'm definitely not famous, by
the way. You know, the numbers you see on my
TikTok seem massive. But if you compare them
to actual famous people, they're really not.
OK, but what about you, though? So why did you
want to kind of start a podcast? You're already
TikTok -ing, you're already blogging, you're
doing all of those things. Why add a podcast?
I'm simply not busy enough, Mx. No, so I've
been doing the TikTok for about three years now.
And it's been the most common thing that people
ask for is, do you have a podcast? When are you
going to start a podcast? Why don't you have
a podcast? You know, so I could see there was
interest in it there. And I have always wanted
to do it. But it's finding the time and committing
the time as well. It was finding the right way
to do it. Like you mentioned, I really wanted
to do it with a co -host because otherwise it's
just me. talking at people unless i get guests
on every single episode which is a big commitment
um and i've started to branch out a little bit
recently i've started the blog which i'm really
enjoying and that's made me realize actually
i can take on new projects and make space for
them and maybe i just need to get on with it
and stop saying oh someday yeah yeah no that
makes that makes sense and you know you said
before that you like the fact that you add value
and understanding to other people's lives and
other people's perspectives which i think is
a really nice yeah to do yeah we're doing it
myself it's been a really big surprise because
like i said the tiktok kind of happened by accident
and the first video that blew up i can't remember
if i've ever told you this or shown you it was
back when all the The demand on TikTok was for
like five second videos. And there was a trending
audio that had the phrase why not in it. And
I made a video of me with the caption on screen.
You can't get all of your kink toys from Ikea.
And then I hold up a handful of various Ikea
and lip sync. Why not? And that blew up massively
and people started asking questions. And I was
just having fun and seeing where it took me.
And then I started getting messages from people
and comments from people being like. the things
i've learned from your tiktok have completely
transformed my relationship or they have changed
my relationship with shame and things like that
and it's like i'm just making silly little videos
and there's people out here whose lives are going
off in a different direction because of that
that's really cool yeah um and i try not to like
you know either get a big ego about it or get
absolutely terrified by the responsibility of
that but it feels like it's something that's
worth continuing to put the work into and not
just treating it as making silly little videos
anymore and doing something that might have a
little bit of a wider reach and hopefully help
some people. That's amazing. I think it's amazing.
Like I say, I'm surprised I'm doing this. I couldn't
do videos. That would be terrifying. I'm quite
happy being the quiet partner of a famous person.
Like the little person sort of walking behind
the celebrity on the red carpet who nobody notices.
I'm quite happy with that. Now you're trying
to make my ego explode. I mean, I want to stress
again, I am not. famous i am not a celebrity
i wouldn't even class myself as an influencer
i am a moderately successful tiktok content creator
who sometimes posts something and it gets 5 000
views and i go and have to stare at the wall
and wonder what i'm doing wrong but i you've
mentioned i do occasionally get recognized when
we go out and about especially if we go to the
places where the other chronically online people
are how have you found that with you being such
a private person Mx i think it's nice for you
when it happens I think it's really lovely because
everybody, everybody that I've seen you meet
has just been so positive and be like, oh, my
God, it's you. You're on the Internet. Can we
have a picture? And that's really, really nice
to see because, you know, like we were talking
before, you're having a positive impact on people's
life, which is really, really nice to see for
them and to see you kind of getting that recognition
and getting that attention that you deserve because
of the good work that you do. I just cannot wrap
my head around. For me, I just can't wrap my
head around that. It's whenever we meet people,
whenever you meet people, they go, oh, and this
is my partner. And I'm like, hi. Gently waving
at her, hi. I'm not really sure what to do with
myself. So yeah, I'm getting used to you being
recognized. You know, when we were at a gig recently,
somebody came up to you and asked for a photo
and I walked practically to the other side of
the venue so that I wasn't in the background
of the picture or something. You know, that's
the kind of thing that I... that i do but it's
pretty cool it's been nice to see you getting
more not used to it i think but comfortable with
it yeah yeah because people are always they're
excited to see me but then they're even more
excited when they realize they now get to find
out a little bit more about you because you're
such a mystery yeah like they maybe won't find
out very much but they'll see your face and usually
will give them your name yeah that is that's
a big thing like people find that really exciting
a lot of the time and you at first was so thrown
by that and now you i know you still don't really
understand why but But you're on board with it?
Yeah, it's a weird thing that happens. I don't
have to understand it. I just have to make my
peace with it, I suppose. So given that we've
established people are obviously really interested
in you, whether you understand it or not, I thought
we'd start by talking a little bit about you.
Seeing as this is a kink podcast, why don't we
kick off with how did you get started in kink
Mx? What were those first experiences like?
Many, many years ago, because I am very, very
old. But back when I was a... back when I was
a teenager and really kind of got interested
in, got introduced to kink completely by accident
and kind of looking back on it, probably not
the best way to start, although it is quite a
funny story. I was a horny university student
out on a night out and I hooked up with this
very lovely girl and we went back to her place
and we were, you know, having sex and doing all
of that kind of fun stuff. And she kept kind
of encouraging me to kind of slap her and do
stuff like that. And I was like, no, you don't
do that. That's not right. You don't hit a woman.
You know, all those things you're taught to do
when you grow up, which is absolutely right,
obviously. And it went on like that for a little
bit. And eventually she just stopped and said,
if you want me to come, you're going to have
to hit me. Relatable. Yeah. And in that moment,
I was like. all right then and and gave it a
go and and we had a great time and it that was
my first introduce introduction to anything vaguely
kind of kinky really it wasn't really something
that had featured heavily before that um i like
to say funny little story great way to get introduced
to it but you know kind of looking back on it
kind of maybe not the best yeah not exactly pre
-negotiating not exactly kind of full of consent
and negotiation and and boundaries and all of
that sort of um all of that sort of stuff but
i really enjoyed it And kind of explored that
a little bit with her and with other people and
just kind of really got into the idea of doing
really mean things to people who like having
really mean things done to them. You know, kind
of playing with that idea that it is kind of
in quotes wrong to slap anyone. But, you know,
I was socialised a male and you're told you never
hit a woman. Yeah. So to have permission to do
those wrong things in a... safer and but in a
safe consensual kind of environment is really
quite powerful yeah you know and i i kind of
really leaned into that kind of doing mean things
to people who like having mean things it makes
a lot of talk to them i often think kink is very
much a big part of what drives kink for a lot
of people i think and definitely for me is that
kind of grappling with the dark side of your
own nature like what are the worst things that
i could potentially do to a person what are the
worst things that could potentially happen to
me what am i most afraid of what what am i most
ashamed of and taking those out and turning them
into a game because i think sometimes that's
the only way to cope yeah um so that crossing
those lines and doing those things that you've
been socialized probably from birth to believe
were absolute hardline moral standards yeah and
turning that into a game is very freeing in a
lot of ways and that doesn't mean you're now
free to go out and just slap the shit out of
anyone you want to yes but it takes some of the
power out of that negative potential that you
have yeah Yeah, definitely. And that was a lot
of my early experiences, I suppose, or a lot
of my experiences were around, I guess, more
traditional types of BDSM and kink, I suppose.
So kind of lots of saying mean things to people,
hitting people with various implements, you know,
of which there are dozens and dozens now upstairs.
Yeah. And getting less traditional as well. What
are the weirdest things you can hit a person
with? Let's try that. Yes, Ikea. And I've had
kind of relationships that have had varying levels
of kink and things in them. But it wasn't really
until I met you that really kind of opened up
to... much greater degrees of control greater
degrees of power exchange and also much darker
ideas yeah in still in a safe and a consensual
and risk away way but really really pushing at
that idea of what is acceptable and what is not
acceptable in society so some of the psychological
stuff that we've done that's been really quite
mean and picking on very real challenges that
you've had in your life yeah and sort of using
using the negative using negative experiences
you've had as a way of exercising that power
and as a way of really leaning into that being
mean because you're allowed to be yeah sort of
thing is is just it's it's it's so exciting it's
kind of almost intoxicating when you're allowed
to to do that and i've struggled a little bit
with some of that yeah But when we get it right,
it's amazing. So I think, you know, kind of my
interests in kink, I suppose, are taking
those really socially unacceptable things, seeing
what you, like you say, turning them into a game,
kind of taking control of them. Helping you take
control of some of that as well. And having a
great time while we do it. And, you know, some
of the scenes that we've done and some of the
scenes that we're planning, just even five years
ago before I met you. never in a million years
that's just ridiculous yeah but you've really
opened my eyes to actually it's okay to keep
pushing those things as long as everybody's having
fun it's having that sort of controlled escalation
with it as well I think if you've gone from that
first experience when you were in your late teens
straight to the kind of stuff that we have done
in the last couple of weeks yeah it would have
it would have been psychologically dangerous
for you even if physically everything had been
done safely because that's too much of an escalation
too fast but what you find or at least what i
found is the more you start opening those boxes
and rummaging around in those dark corners in
your head the more stuff comes out yeah and and
the more you find out about yourself and the
more you want to explore and that doesn't mean
that escalation is going to go on forever that
there has to kind of be a limit at some point
yeah um but it's it's often there is potential
there that you have no idea exists yeah and often
desires that you have no idea that you had i
knew when i started exploring kink that i wanted
a lot of the the physical aspects of what i do
now but i never knew i wanted a ds relationship
until i found myself in the first one yeah i
was like oh that's the missing piece yeah yeah
i think that's right and i think you know that
this the type of ds relationship that we have
is very different from ones i've had in the past
so lots of control lots of very overt sort of
pre -agreed control and and kind of um really
strong kind of power exchange whereas those kind
of dynamics i've had in the past have been more
kind of caregiving type yeah dynamics making
sure that the person is taking care of themselves
and doing what they need to do and that's a really
big part of ours as well but that extra layer
of control and decision making and kind of taking
your autonomy away yeah is is just adds a whole
other dimension to it whilst also being really
loving and really caring and really intimate
and and kind of making sure that you're doing
the things that you need to do and take care
of yourself and all of that stuff it's just amazing
it is OK, well, that's enough about me for a
little bit, I think. I'll give you a break. Thank
you very much. I appreciate it. So how about
you? Talk to us about your kind of how you got
started in exploring. Being a kinky person. Yeah,
I mean, I feel I'm a little different from you
where it wasn't so much a discovery for me as
something that was always there that I had to
come to accept, Mx. So I remember having what
I would now recognise as kinky fantasies from
as early as I can remember. Obviously, I wouldn't
have thought about it in those terms at the time,
but I remember being a really little kid and
how I would relax to get myself to sleep is I
would fantasise about being on the conveyor belt
in a supermarket. And as I got to the front of
the queue, the shop assistant would torture me.
Sometimes like punching and kicking. Sometimes
I would get dissected, like absolutely unhinged
stuff. What kind of supermarkets were you going
to as a child? I've tried to figure out the supermarket
connection for a long time, because that's the
bit that makes the least sense, really. I think
it was because it was an environment where everything
was bigger than me at that age. The counter was
very high up. The people were all like giants.
You know, it was a sort of quite intimidating,
quite loud, quite bright environment. And I think
it made me feel. less powerful and i think that's
what was carrying over but i am not a psychologist
i'm sure a psychologist would have a lovely time
making sense of that dissect yeah maybe and that
that just continued as i got older you know uh
the kind of thoughts i was having became more
sexual as i became more sexual as i got older
And when I was about 16, I very, very briefly
dated a guy who had an interest and what seemed
at the time a lot of knowledge in BDSM. Looking
back, I mean, I was 16, he was 17. We were both
kids and we were both idiots, but he seemed to
know a lot more than me. And I explored a few
things with him. But because we were young and
stupid, there was very little negotiation, like
what you talked about. with us doing some stuff
that was quite a bit more involved and i didn't
understand what subspace was that sort of altered
headspace that can happen when you submit and
i ended up doing more than i was really prepared
for and things that i wouldn't have agreed to
if i hadn't been in that state but because i
didn't know what it was i just freaked myself
out i was like why on earth have i said yes to
all this perverted stuff yeah and it freaked
me out and i then Became very ashamed. I already
had a lot of shame around the things I wanted,
but I had even more after that. I was just confused
and shut it all down for a long time. And it
wasn't until I was 31 then that I started actually
accepting it. I tried everything I could think
of to shut down the kind of fantasies I had,
shut down the desires I had. I'd had multiple
unfulfilling relationships where something was
missing and I didn't really know what and didn't
want to know what. And then got to a point where
I realized I was never going to be happy unless
I figured that stuff out. And as I mentioned
when we were talking about your starting point,
I had no idea the box I was opening. Absolutely
no idea. I thought what I basically wanted was
rough sex, bit of CNC. I wanted my hair pulled
and I wanted to be slapped and I wanted to be
choked, which I now know is not the thing to
do. Yes. Very unsafe. Yeah. But I thought that
was kind of where it ended. And then once I did
all of those things, I had that hunger for what
was next. And one of the people that I played
with early on, we ended up sort of falling into
a, again, very poorly negotiated DS dynamic,
quite unstructured, a lot of issues. But even
just that little taste of it was enough that
suddenly a lot of things in my life clicked into
place. And it was like, this is why all of my
relationships have felt. yeah like we're 100
miles away from each other like we can't talk
to each other like i don't know how to be intimate
with this person and like i need to dissociate
during sex like the one missing thing was that
i wasn't submissive to those people and as soon
as i had that yeah all of it just kind of fixed
itself yeah yeah which is a really interesting
kind of thing you have that almost like light
bulb moment of going ah this is what i've been
missing yeah all this time yeah which is amazing
for you great for great that you worked that
out so i suppose what's interesting is that is
you had that progression from trying things out
not being particularly successful with it having
those relationships which in retrospect were
kind of unfulfilling to working out that actually
you are a submissive person you need a certain
side of a relationship but then starting to explore
just as we were talking before kind of pushing
things a little bit further and exploring those
kind of darker side of things things that are
a little bit more extreme i suppose than than
what people might be used to yeah How did that
sort of come about? How did that develop? I think
the progression for that started very much from
when I started exploring consensual non -consent
play. In that first sort of dynamic, almost dynamic
that I had, we did a little bit of rape role
play. And that was something that I wanted to
ask for and didn't have the confidence for. And
then it ended up, so we just kind of developed
into that. And it was probably the fantasy I've
had the most shame around. it was the fantasy
i had the most shame around and i had tried a
lot of really really self -destructive ways to
get rid of that it was a big driving force of
my drug addiction because there were drugs i
could use to shut my sex drive down and that
would stop those thoughts it was that level of
shame where i would rather poison myself than
accept it yeah um and i again realized i had
to accept it and i started exploring that and
i was still dealing with the shame and i talked
to a friend of mine who really kind of built
the foundation of a lot of my thoughts around
kink now where they explained it to me as kink
and particularly things like cnc is adults playing
with fear the same for the same reasons that
children do children play at things like car
crashes of their toy cars and they play at hospitals
like kids come up with some really dark games
even even kids who aren't as unhinged as i
was come up with some horrifying things you walk
in on them and it's like what are you doing to
your toys yeah and that's because they're making
sense of the world and cutting it down to size
and that's what we continue doing as adults and
some of us do it through kink some of it doing
through horror movies through like video games
that involve a lot of violence through all of
these things extreme sports yeah all of it is
about taking our fears and making them manageable
by turning them into games and once i started
thinking of that kind of play in that context
i shed a lot of my shame around it and then i
went after it full force and had that desire
to see how far i could take that style of play
those kind of feelings that i got during play
yeah Because it was the only time in my life
I'd ever felt fully uninhibited and fully present.
The first few times that I did really sort of
realistic rape play scenes, I just felt like
I had permission to get really ugly. Yeah. And
really messy. I'm going to make myself emotional
now. It was just so freeing to finally be able
to just be the mess of a human that I am and
let all of my anger and... pain and just chaos
out in a controlled environment yeah and that
made me want to explore other types of play that
could give me that kind of feeling and it turns
out there's a lot of them yes yes there are and
there's been a couple of things that we've done
by the time that we've been together where you've
had that really you can see the all the physical
release yeah of all of that stuff that gets stuck
in your head and you've had to deal with and
have to process and it's you know it's hard to
see sometimes but kind of understanding it in
that context and understanding that it's done
in the safest way possible yeah it's just it's
it can be beautiful as as well and you know you
get a lot out of you get as much out of it as
as i do for doing it and being mean to you and
doing those things uh which is yeah it's just
awesome so another thing that i'm fascinated
by because i am by nature an anxious dog um You
spend a lot of time talking to the internet about
kink and about the things that you do, the things
that we do, a lot of the topics that you've just
talked about, like shame and all of that, those
kind of things. Why do you do that? Why do you
have a TikTok? Why do you do what you do? I think
it was a natural progression from just how open
I am in general. I don't just talk to the internet
about this. I talk to friends. have talked to
family about this i talk to people who have no
experience of of kink obviously i don't talk
to people who don't want to hear it but i i share
this stuff with people Mx because i had an experience
when i was struggling with drug addiction where
someone outed me as a drug addict without without
my consent uh to try to prevent me from having
an opportunity that that i had um and i'd been
keeping that a secret from almost everybody there
were maybe three or four people at that point
who knew what i was going through And I realised
that I had given that secret so much power. And
the thing is, that person outing me didn't actually
have a negative consequence in the end. I'd applied
to do some work with a charity. And when they
heard about it, they obviously called me into
a meeting to find out a little bit more about
it and how it was affecting me. But ultimately,
they decided they did want to work with me because
they thought it would give me a different perspective.
potentially like connections and communities
that they didn't have and they saw it as an asset
they didn't give me a job handling money which
was probably smart but you know they were they
were willing to work with me where i was at and
it just completely changed my perspective on
on who holds the power with a secret i'd always
thought if i keep the things i'm ashamed of secret
and private then i have control i have control
over how much that affects me And actually, all
I'm doing is handing control over to anybody
who chooses to use that against me if they find
that information. Yeah. Where if I'm the one
that tells people, it's mine. Like, no one can
say anything to me that I haven't already said.
Yeah. No one can take anything away from me that
I haven't already given. Yeah. And it takes that
power back. With Kink especially, I think because
of the journey that I had with Shame, where it
literally nearly killed me. I don't want anyone
else living in that situation. Yeah. When I was
at the worst point of my shame, you know, I was
lying to people. and saying i managed to cure
my rape fantasies and if you don't you're a bad
person and i was giving that shame to other people
and then going home and wanking about rape yeah
i was not cured yeah um and i don't want anyone
else feeling that way and acting that way for
themselves and for other people it's there's
a better way of living And I did fall into TikTok
by accident, but that's the thing that's kept
me going with it, even when it's sometimes a
bit stressful and a bit chaotic, is I know that
there will be people out there that need to hear
that. Yeah, yeah. Those kind of two things, like
taking control for yourself, but showing other
people that it's okay. I would have needed to
have that openness first. I think if I'd learned
the openness doing TikTok, I would have freaked
out. But because I already had that sort of approach
where... Once I started doing kink, I wanted
everyone around me to be aware of it. So it wasn't
a shameful secret. The idea of posting about
it online then wasn't massively. It's like all
the people whose opinion I actually value already
know about this and accept me. Then what power
do people on the internet really have? Yeah.
Complete strangers. You know, that's not going
to be the thing that makes the difference one
way or the other. Yeah. That's a very healthy
attitude to have. So we should probably talk
a little bit about why you call me what you call
me. You call me Mx. I do. Rather than by using
my name. And that's quite an important part of
our dynamic. Yeah. Is how we refer to each other
and how we act and kind of the protocol. Yes.
Around our relationship. Yeah. And I think there's
definitely, there's a whole episode in protocol.
I'm sure we'll get to that. But seeing as this
is the introduction episode, it's probably a
good idea to let people know why they might hear
us talking a little bit differently from the
average person. So the rules that we have. are
one of the many many rules that we have is that
when you ask me a question or when i ask you
a question i i use Mx to address you so if i
want to get your attention i'd be like can you
pay lots of attention to me please Mx yes yes
that that's exactly how you do it yeah and that
i wear really little shorts yeah that's yeah
speaking without words Yeah. Usually. I'm a very
skilled communicator like that. You are. You
are excellent like that. Oh, which is probably
just in case people don't know, Mx is a gender
neutral honorific. Yes. Like Mr. or Mrs. would
be for someone who identifies as a man or a woman.
Yeah. I also use Mx as my title. You know, no
one's calling me in that sort of formal, respectful
way that I do with you. But that, if you're writing
me a letter, it would be Mx kirizal. Yes. So
you call me Mx. I do. I tend to call you baby
boy. Yes. When we're talking to each other, I
have a variety of other names I use for you in
very different situations. But I get my name
for the purposes of this podcast, and it's probably
going to be S, as in sugar. That is not my name.
My name is not sugar. Going to start a conspiracy
theory that it is. Start seeing comments on your
TikToks, how's sugar? But that's, you know, the
way that we refer to each other is one of...
A whole bunch of little rules that kind of are
just part of day -to -day life and we don't really
think about them. Our list of rules is five typed
pages now, I think. Wow. Yeah, after we updated
it earlier on, which is, you know, consider where
we started. Yes, it was a little tiny note in
Google keep, I guess, with about five rules on
it. Yeah, one of which was eat a meal. Yeah,
we've still got that one. Still got eat a meal.
I do sometimes need reminding, so. Yes, especially
when you're having wine business meetings. I
enjoyed my wine and my business meeting and I
did eat a meal when I got home. You did, you
were very good. You were very good. Yeah, we
have obviously a lot of rules and quite a lot
of protocol as well. There's a lot with sort
of how I position myself when we go out, things
like opening doors, loads of things. And one
of the things that I really enjoy about protocol
is I think couples in general, not just kinky
couples, everybody. sometimes loses time and
space for intimacy in a relationship um when
with kink that can be about just not having time
to plan a scene and not having time to go to
loads of events and things like that but with
everybody it can be things like sex starting
to decline in a long -term relationship even
little bits of affection like kissing and cuddling
and remembering to say i love you and stuff like
it sounds It sounds like it's the stuff that
you shouldn't be able to forget, but people just
slip into routines and things do get lost. Having
a formal agreed protocol that is part of the
way that we express love to each other means
that physically can't happen. Or if it does,
I'm in trouble. I'll have actually broken a rule.
We identify a problem as soon as it starts instead
of things gradually sliding away. Having fairly
high protocol feels like I have a really strong
tie to the dynamic. And because of that, a really
strong tie to you. that can't just sort of drop
out of the forefront of my mind. Yeah. And it's,
it's that daily, it's that daily reminder of,
of, of what we're doing. Yeah. You know, not,
not just within our kind of relationship, but
within our, that, that wider dynamic. And, you
know, we go through peaks and troughs, I suppose,
like any couple in any type of relationship would
in terms of the, the kind of the, the sexual
intimacy and the things that we do. And we did
some, some months we do loads of scenes, some
months we don't do as many. but that those things
the way that you referred to me the side of the
street that you walk on the fact that you're
open doors all of those things are there every
day really rooting us in yeah what we're trying
to do and what we're trying to achieve yeah in
our in our relationship and i think you're right
i think a lot of couples regardless of the type
of relationship they have would be a lot stronger
from kind of being more conscious about those
little things that yeah we barely notice like
on a day -to -day basis that you you notice them
but you don't notice them if that makes sense
they're just part of the background tapestry
of our of our life but it reminds you it puts
you back in the relationship it reminds you what
we're what we're about which is lush yeah yeah
i really like it and protocol was something i
hadn't explored a lot before our relationship
there was a little bit with my most recent ex
but not to the level that that we've taken into
and you've really sort of broadened my mind with
with protocol and introduced a lot of ideas i
would never just never would have thought of
on my own and i knew that it was something that
i wanted to explore more but it's like like we
opened the box like we talked about yeah yeah
and all of this love of protocol is in there
and we have ended up a lot higher protocol than
i thought i would ever want and now i wouldn't
want it any other way yeah Yeah, I think it gets
a bit of a bad rep sometimes, high protocol.
Yeah. Because you kind of, I think I was probably
guilty of this, of assuming that if someone is
in a high, what you call a high protocol dynamic,
it's very formal and very stiff, kind of a little
bit cold. Yeah. I guess if that's what people
enjoy, then... It can be. It can be. But actually,
high protocol can also be chilling out on the
sofa, in our pyjamas, watching telly, eating.
greasy meats from the kebab shop kind of kind
of thing it can still be fun and goofy and light
but no less meaningful yeah as a result of that
it's funny i only just realized that we were
high protocol like literally about a week ago
yeah yeah um because i had made a video about
protocol on tiktok and said you know there's
kind of a spectrum from really low or no protocol
up to really high protocol and me and mix are
somewhere in the middle and i got a comment you
know because i then described all of our protocols
yeah yeah and i got a comment from someone being
like If you're not high protocol, what is? Yeah.
I was like, I need a comeback for this. But I
do not have one because you might be right. And
then we were trying to think of more protocol
to add. And it's like, there's not actually a
lot left. Unless we go, as we said, like very
sort of coldly formal. Like no sort of joking
around, no cheekiness, none of the goofiness
and softer side, which we don't want to lose.
yeah but actually none of that does take away
from the protocol it affects the flavor of it
it's not yeah it's not higher or lower it's just
different yeah there are probably things we could
add but that would probably say would detract
from the style of our relationship anyway you
know kind of you know we were at an event yesterday
and some another couple were doing some protocol
where they weren't allowed to make eye contact
with their dominant yeah that sounds great for
an evening yeah three or four hours on a thursday
evening sort of thing that sounds great but doing
that all the time i think we'd lose you would
lose something lose some of the connection you
would lose yeah that connection but you're right
i can't think of really struggle to think of
more rules and more problems we can we can add
yeah and that's okay it is yeah yeah the escalation
is a lot of fun but it doesn't have to go on
forever there has to be a stopping point at some
point especially with physical play because otherwise
we'd just end up with me in hospital yeah nobody
wants that i don't want to have to explain to
a doctor what's happened to you no i just drop
you off at the door yeah that that is what i
would encourage absolutely So this podcast is
called Don't Scare the Newbies. And I thought
we'd wrap up by talking about why we called it
that. And I was going to say we came up with
the name, but I came up with the name before
you'd agreed to do the podcast. And I've inflicted
it on you. But you didn't object. No, it's a
good name. And I think I need to get some credit.
The reason I thought of that was that is a phrase
that I've heard quite a lot since I joined the
kink scene. And it is outside of the context
of my... our awesome podcast that we're starting
it is a phrase that annoys the shit out of me
yeah um it's it's really frustrating so there's
kind of attitude not at all with everyone on
the kink scene um a lot of people are definitely
starting to move beyond this and have a more
open mind but an idea that people who are new
to kink aren't ready to see certain play styles
certain types of dynamics that they aren't going
to be ready to handle a certain level of event
yeah which i find for a start quite patronizing
but also didn't really acknowledge my experience
as a newbie coming in as someone who was already
starting to before I started going to events
really realized that I wanted quite extreme things
yeah and what I was looking for from events was
people that I could relate to who were going
kink in the way that I wanted to do kink or was
already starting to do kink yeah and hearing
conversations kind of shut down and being like
that's not suitable for newbies when it was the
specific reason I was there yeah maybe that's
the thing that scares me is is being the only
one being like the lone pervert who has tastes
that make you unlovable and unrelatable yeah yeah
yeah it's not seeing someone do something a bit
weird in a in a group of people who are already
considered different and strange and somehow
other from the rest of mainstream society you're
the one in that group that is different and strange
and other yeah um because of it yeah i think
that's i think Because, you know, I'm fairly
new to the kink scene, to the kink community.
Yeah. But I wouldn't call myself a newbie. No.
You know, I haven't been doing kink constantly
since I was 19, but I've got, you know, 20 years
of experience of doing this stuff. I'm not a
newbie. I was new to the scene. Yeah. Which is
a different thing. It is. And I had people calling
me a newbie when I'd been on the scene for about
a year because I hadn't been to play events.
So by that point, I was a year into a Total Power
Exchange dynamic. I was going to say I'd done
everything I could think of. I've now done more.
But I had done a lot. I had done a lot of some
pretty intense stuff. I was living this 24 -7.
And I was regularly going to events, social events.
And I had a few people refer to me continuously
as a newbie. after being told to stop because
I hadn't played in public. So I was a bit of
an unknown quantity, but I also wasn't playing
with them. So it was none of their business.
So, yeah, I think there's the way that newbie
is defined and the way that people assume newbies
need to be pushed out of certain things is a
barrier to people that isn't helpful. And what
I want to do is, you know, destigmatize kink,
particularly destigmatize some of the scary,
the weird, the gross, the extreme, the sexual,
all those things that people want to kind of
gatekeep newbies from. We kind of have to start
that by challenging the idea that you must be
a certain level of graduated in kink before you
can have access to that knowledge. Yeah, yeah,
I get that. I think to be fair, I don't necessarily
think that it comes from a negative place. I
think that idea that especially if you're running
an event, you want people to feel safe and welcome
and one version of that. is to try and kind of
make it feel tame tame isn't quite the right
word but you know what i mean kind of sanitize
it a little bit it feels more comfortable for
people but i think you end up like you say creating
more of a barrier there because if you've got
someone who's going to their first kink event
and they they have wild extreme fantasies the
kind of things that you talked about earlier
on and probably carrying shame about that They're
not going to necessarily feel comfortable in
that space if everything around them is deliberately
being kind of tamped down. Yeah. And they don't
have access to that. It's like, well, if I can't
go here, where can I go? And having to prove
that you're ready to experience those things
and see those things and talk about those things.
Yeah. You know, we've both been at events where
the stuff that we're talking about, someone has
said, let's not talk about that. And it's like,
well, but that's what we do. yeah that's our
version of kink this is a space where we should
be able to express those things there's a risk
isn't there you you talked about coming into
kink with a lot of shame and kind of repressing
a lot which was unhealthy for you there's a danger
that we just perpetuate that there is within
our within our within our community yeah if we
if we don't kind of embrace everybody and understand
that people play at different levels I think
some of what's happened, and some of what's happened
is because of a good thing happening, is that
kink has become more mainstream and more accessible.
So well before our time, if you wanted to be
part of a kink community, you kind of had to
know someone who knew someone or pick up a phone
number from around in the back of a sex shop.
And you had to probably be a certain level of
kinky to go out of your way like that. yeah yeah
it was like the the hardcore perverts who were
doing that yeah where now um 50 shades which
i think has had a very mixed bag in terms of
impact but one of the good impacts of it has
been that people something awakens in people
that they want to yeah yeah um kink in general
being represented more in the media not always
well but the information is out there the internet
is a thing so people can just find it is people
who have a lower level of interest in kink and
maybe a slightly lighter approach to kink are
discovering that these communities are there
and have something to offer them yeah which is
amazing that is something i think is a really
really good thing yeah but i think that has come
with a sort of a shift in direction where there
is a little bit of a movement to sanitize kink
and make it a little bit more gentle and a little
bit softer and a little bit more pitch to kind
of the beginner level yeah and those old perverts
are still here The proper weirdos are still there
as well. They need to have a space. And having
those two ends of the spectrum interact with
each other in a way that is positive is definitely
doable. But I think it requires everyone to sort
of come in with a little bit of an open mind,
making that commitment if you are. from the heavier
end of the spectrum to say i'm not going to gatekeep
i'm not going to look down on someone because
they don't play as hard as me and if you're someone
coming in at that higher end of the spectrum
accepting that you're going to see and hear things
that are a little out of your comfort zone and
a little bit confronting and aren't ever going
to be to your taste and that you shouldn't put
pressure on yourself to play up to that level
but also shouldn't put pressure on anyone else
to come down to yours yeah we're all in this
because we want something that's a little bit
outside of the norm Or a lot outside of the norm,
but however far outside of the norm it is, it's
not something that you're going to find on Tinder
necessarily. So you come to the place where you
can find it and where you can meet other people
who say, actually, you're not broken and this
is okay. And we all need to support each other
in that. Otherwise, the whole thing falls apart.
Yeah. And other than the way that we're using
it, because we're going to use don't scare the
newbies in a really positive way, that kind of
don't scare the newbies attitude kind of denies
people on both sides of that a level of personal
responsibility. Yeah. So it's our responsibility
as people who play at the heavier end of the
kink, if we encounter people who are new or are
playing at a much lighter level or in different
ways to us, is not to force that on them. Yeah.
So if we are having a conversation that's making
someone uncomfortable, that person has the agency
to say, this is making me uncomfortable, so either
I'm going to leave or can we talk about something
else? Yeah. Kind of thing, you know, and it's
the same if you go to an event. where the venue
that we go to, dozens of little rooms sprawled
all over the place, mostly with open doors. You
put your head in. If you don't like it, you don't
stay and watch. You walk away. Like it happened
with us yesterday. We were playing and Mx was
caning the soles of my feet and I was having
a great time. Like I will make a fuss about being
hit pretty much anywhere. But as soon as you
start hitting my feet, I'm just giggling and
moaning. I'm having an amazing time. And one
of my friends heard all the happy noises and
stuck their head around the door to see what
was going on. Unfortunately, that friend has
a phobia of feet and exited very fast. That's
what it's about. They thought they might like
to see what was going on. They realised they
did not want to see that at all. And they went
to do something else. That's how we work. And
it's that kind of responsibility on everybody,
isn't it? Of not deliberately traumatise the
newbies. Maybe that's what we should say. Don't
traumatise the newbies. You know, to deliberately
put that on them. But just be grown up about
it. This is what we're into. You don't like it.
That's fine. Let's talk about what you like as
well. because that's good too so our version
of don't scare the newbies is let's demystify
this stuff let's answer all the questions that
you've ever had yeah let's share all the most
deranged thoughts and experiences that we've
had that people hide away and keep in the dark
and make them accessible make them normal because
it's not typical but i would say it's normal
yes sounds like a good plan i am very excited
to get started and i'm so excited that i'm doing
this with you mix i am excited in a different
way i think it'll be good i think it will take
me a while to get used to it and i apologize
to anyone listening for the for the poor quality
of my input i think you have done amazing thanks
i think we've had a really good first chat for
our first episode i'm so excited to see what
comes next excellent so i think now is a good
time to wrap up and start planning for our next
episode thanks for listening to this week's episode
of don't scare the newbies you can support us
on patreon for bonus content and head to kirizal
.com for my blog and links to everywhere else
that you can follow me see you next time