I remember on my wedding night, I was a virgin.
My wife was not, because I was already into slutty
girls. And I remember she was like, are you sure
this is your first time? Because I always was
adept at sexual things. This podcast contains
explicit adult content, mature themes, and candid
conversations about sex, dominance, power exchange,
and ethical non -monogamy. It is intended for
audiences 18 and over only. Listener discretion
is advised. The views expressed by our guests
are theirs alone and do not necessarily reflect
the views or values of the hosts, producers,
or affiliated brands. The Bull Brotherhood podcast
is for educational, entertainment, and empowerment
purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should
be interpreted as legal advice, medical guidance,
or psychological counseling. We speak from experience,
not credentials. Always practice consent, respect
the boundaries of others, and follow local laws.
If you're not comfortable with frank talk about
sex, kink, dominance, or emotional power, this
probably isn't the show for you. But if you're
ready to step into your masculine edge and embrace
a lifestyle that demands mastery, welcome to
the Brotherhood. Welcome to the Bull Brotherhood
Podcast, where we talk power, pleasure, and the
art of dominance in ethical non -monogamy. This
is not your average lifestyle podcast. This is
for men who lead, men who master, and men who
leave a lasting impression. If you're here, you're
not just curious. You're ready to elevate. So
to all the bulls, hot wives, stags, and open
-minded explorers, we see you. Let's go. Ladies
and gentlemen, good evening and welcome to another
informative episode of the Bull Brotherhood Podcast.
I'm the Sigma male himself, Mr. Brian Morgan,
one third of my podcast team, along with my lovely
family, the beautiful Siren. Say hello, sweetheart.
Hello, everyone. And of course, my nephew and
partner in crime, the ever -loving, the man himself,
my boy. Say hello, dog. What's good, y 'all?
What's good? Hello, hello. And his name is Socrates.
Ladies and gentlemen, tonight we have a brother
coming to us from the city of angels, Los Angeles.
He refers to himself as the sapiosexual black
bull. He's mostly dominant, hella primal by nature,
enjoys the cuckold hot wife as well as the hot
wife vixen and stag lifestyle, adept in various
dom and sub dynamics. He's entered the BDSM as
well as the Dom Sub Power Dynamic and Shibari
Rope Tying as well. I mentioned in talking to
him about this. He's also one of the founders
of a group of hung -fit black bulls in the L
.A. area called the Four Horsemen. A particular
depth in the wide spectrum called race play.
We're damn sure going to talk about that. which
includes B, BNWO fantasies, and a myriad of other
racial kinks, including recent forays into interracial
sex magic. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the
Bull Brotherhood, again from the City of Angels,
the man himself, Pagan. What's going on, brother?
What's going on, my people? I am excited to be
on the Bull Brotherhood podcast. Long -time listener.
First -time guest, what's going on? Hey, man,
it's your world. It is your world. It is definitely
a pleasure to have you up here. Socrates and
myself have wanted you up here for quite some
time. We know you are a very, very busy man,
so thank you. Thank you for allotting some time
tonight to be on the Bull Brotherhood. It's a
pleasure, and I'm very grateful to get a chance
to be here. I really believe in you guys' ethos,
your mission statement of doing what we can.
as gentlemen who have experience to pass it on.
make it easier for the next generation so thank
you i appreciate it all right all right well
look we're gonna kick it off uh i'm i'm i'm definitely
excited because i really want to know the origin
of the of the sapiosexual one i love saying that
i really do i really do love saying that there's
not many brothers that i can like get that out
of you know when they say hey i'm i'm into that
sapiosexual you know i know you want to get inside
somebody's somebody's head so i mean just just
this just let's just kick it off i mean give
me your give me your like origin like where you
live you know how did you get into this lifestyle
etc etc yeah so i didn't always live in l .a
i lived in a smaller town and i was raised really
religious i was raised kind of cloistered your
friends were in the religion you don't really
hang out with people outside of it you marry
in the religion it was very cloistered you know
basically fundamentalist christian and so That
was an interesting upbringing. I would never
change it for the world. I think a lot of why
I'm successful in the lifestyle, ironically,
comes from that background and that training
I had. But that said, I was a virgin when I was
22 years old and got married. So that's how tight
I was in that religion. And then after about
six, seven years, I just realized that I not
only was questioning the religion that I was
in. But I was also questioning my decision to
get married that young because that's just what
you did if you wanted to have sex in my religion,
which is not a great reason, I think, for people
to get married. So, yeah. So I had to break ties
with my marriage and my religion at the same
time, which was seismic because I was born in
this. All of my friends were in it, my whole
infrastructure. And I was basically just... overnight
outside of that so that was when however i found
this new tribe i started getting interested in
the lifestyle i was always very sexual i remember
on my wedding night i was a virgin my wife was
not because i was already into silly girls and
i remember she was like are you sure this is
your first time because i've always was adept
at sexual things so cut to i'm now divorced and
i'm free and i'm unfettered So I started delving
into the lifestyle. I remember the first thing
I went to was a party that would now be called
content creating. But back then it was damn near
dial -up probably. So it was just a woman with
a camera in the room that would put it on later.
But it was like maybe 12 guys and me in a room.
That was like the first thing I was invited to
as a single male. And that's the kind of things
you jump on. You didn't go to like Tinder or
something first? You were just like, boom, I'm
doing lifestyle. Oh, I should clarify. Like,
I've been in the lifestyle for over 20 years.
So there was no Tinder. There was no, you know,
this is back when people were in chat rooms and
stuff like that. But yeah, it was definitely
like a dive right in type thing. And pretty soon
after that, I started saying, I want to create
a party that's like a little more high end than
what I'm going to. So I started like coaching
people from each one I went to, the high quality
guys, the high quality couples, women. And then
I started making my own parties. And that's when
I started the Four Horsemen, which was just me
and a few other guys that I knew were high quality,
that I knew could be in a group, could be cool
together after a few drinks. All the things that
we look for in quality men. I started doing that
a long time ago, finding quality bulls. I didn't
even know the term bull at the time. But that's
what I started doing, putting parties together
for the Four Horsemen and ladies that appreciated
us. So that's kind of my way. I love that name,
the Four Horsemen. I love it. But, you know,
the reason why I picked that name is because,
number one, the number four is in it, which means
don't ask me for 12 guys or 15 guys or, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also, you know, I just
think it fucking sounds cool. Yeah, it is. It
is. It really is. You said that you were always,
you were always sexual. When did that, like,
when did that start? Like, what age did you start,
like, embracing your, you know, your sexuality,
your being horny all the time, stuff like that?
Yeah, it's interesting. That's a good question.
The first thing that popped in my head isn't
going to probably fucking crack you up a bit,
but, like, the first thing that popped in my
head is a seminal, literally seminal moment of
remembering seeing linda carter as a wonder woman
wonder woman every fiber in my being was like
oh i'm a heterosexual boy like i know like i
was a little tight but i knew i want that and
i remember that but later like i was an artist
and my dad would always catch me you know like
he was a preacher And he was not happy with me
sometimes. He would find me making these drawings
that are, like, not just, like, you know, boobies
and stuff, like, from a kid. We're talking about,
like, you know, extremely graphic sexual things
where there's, like, people around watching people
fucking. And I'm drawing this shit. Because I
couldn't, I didn't have access to porn. So I
was like, I'm making my own. So that's how sexual
I was at a very early age. But I couldn't do
it. I wasn't able to delve into it like the normal
kid when he's going through puberty. I was so
religious, I didn't get a chance to do it. But
I was definitely circling at the hotel. Why is
it that it's the preachers, it's usually the
PKs, the preacher's kids that are so freaking,
that are so freaking, I mean, freaks. That's
all of us, actually. Guilty. Yeah. And you know
what I think it's related to? Why are there so
many teachers that are hot wives? The number
one. And nurses. Structured lives that we have
to live everywhere else. What you're saying about
how religion can cause us to really get buck
wild later, it's not lost on me. There's so many
of us in the lifestyle. I like that. And I really
do think that when you push... people down or
repress them in any way as soon as they get unshackled
they're going to try to do everything that they
can to make up for lost time i know that was
was the case for me like i was jumping right
in with both feet and it had everything to do
with being so cloistered and pushed down and
pressed for so long so yeah i think that's a
big reason why a lot of us in the lifestyle come
from that background good deal good deal So I
want to go back to the sapiosexual aspect of
it for you. Would you say that that allows you
to get into a hot wife's head a little easier?
Or is it something that attracts you more about
her? Or would it be both? Am I making sense in
the question? Yeah, absolutely. I would say that
when it comes to that. We're getting in each
other's heads. If I'm lucky, you know, she's
getting into my head, too. There's an aspect
of it, though, where you're absolutely right.
Like, I'm getting into her head. I'm turned on
by intelligence. And that's not just, like, one
kind of intelligence. That doesn't always mean
book learning. That means a woman who's, like,
emotionally intelligent because we make jokes
all the time. Socrates, like, I call myself a
robot. You know, I'm more Spock than Kirk, you
know? i'm a logic based guy and so when i meet
the yin to my yang and we can talk about this
too a little later with the sex magic finding
my compliment intellectually sometimes is not
about the book smarts it's about emotional quotient
where woman is teaching me how to delve into
like my emotional side or my feelings more or
there's been another version of sapiel for me
is witchy chicks. Chicks that are able, the way
I put it is they have antenna that pick up frequencies
that not all of us pick up. And this is something
as a robot I used to laugh and scoff at because
it didn't fit into my ones and zeros in my code.
But I've experienced too many things now where
unexplainable, amazing experiences have happened
to me when I'm around a woman who's witchy intelligent.
as it were so yeah it's it's it is all brains
but it's different forms it can take and that
turns me on yeah yeah i get that wow wow don't
get me wrong i'll fuck a i'll fuck a dumb chick
in a second So no need for me to ask you that
question then, because I was just about to ask
you. Can't some regular TNA just turn you on?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No need for that. No, yeah.
All you dumb girls out there with a big booty
and a smile, you'll find a place with me. Oh,
boy. Oh, boy. Sign me up. Oh, my goodness. That's
what I'm talking about. Not the smart girl sapiosexual
type. You nailed the format I want to say stuff
in. And I'm going to practice it. But you nailed
it, which is like, I like them thick. I like
them slim thick. But I'll fuck me a skinny bitch
in a hot second. Like, don't get it twisted.
That's the best way to describe it. I've been
struggling for years. And I love that. That's
the best way to describe it. Like, you thick
women, please come say hi to me at Splash or
if you see me in a park. You know who I am. Please,
but. You, you know, a skinny woman that, that
we vibing. Oh my goodness. Yes. No problem. Let's
do it. So I like that. That put me up on game
right now. Real quick. Oh boy. Tell, tell us
about how you, how you went about for forming
the four horsemen and like what do you guys like
put on, you know, you guys put on parties. Do
you. Go and see people or what's y 'all's format?
And what's the measurement? What's the measurement
requirement? It says hung men. So I want to know
more about what that means. I see what you did
there. Yes, yes. To answer the last question
first, you know, we all know hung means different
things to different people. I tended to look
at it as like pretty much eight inches plus would
be considered hung. But some people say nine,
some people say 10, some people say seven. Like
I've seen that, you know. but just that is what
i mean by that is you're not gonna see any of
my guys pulling their pants down you're disappointed
right where they look average or below average
so that's what i mean by hung is just oh that's
above average that's kind of what i mean but
i'm not like really like you know pulling out
a ruler taking their word for it yeah or you
know but i've seen these guys and i've been around
them and the women are commenting on their dick
so it's not like i'm just doing it blind yeah
but to answer the The first question, yeah, it
kind of picks up where I left off with that thing
in the beginning when I opened up and I was bringing
in guys. I quickly realized that being a black
male was my brand. Again, I didn't know what
a bull was. I didn't know a lot back then. But
I did know that my specialness was being a black
male and interracial play was where the sun was
shining. You can be like a plant or a flower.
Wherever the sun is shining on you, you can lean
that way. And the sun was shining towards interracial.
So that is where I built the brand around. And
then the guys I would get, like I said, I would
snipe them. If I go to a party and I see a really
great dude, super chill, can have a few drinks,
be cool. he's smart you know he he's got mouthpiece
all these things i'm like oh i'm gonna see like
hey you want to join us and the thing that i'm
doing is bringing them a higher level of woman
than what we probably were at at that party and
only that like when i call them they know oh
yeah i'm down a lot of the times these guys after
a while they don't even need pictures from me
they're just like yeah i'm coming so that was
what i brought to the table and what they bring
to the table for me is frankly man I had too
many women for me to handle. So all my lady friends
that were like, do you have a friend? I'm like,
absolutely. I got a few friends. What do you
want to do? So I was able to like be compulsive
and provide pleasure to women that I was already
meeting and bring them another experience. So
that's kind of how I started it. you know only
a sapiosexual would say compulsive i don't even
know what that word i don't even know what that
means no one knows what it means but i love it
will ferrell quotes yeah yeah you know i know
you guys have discussed compersion on the podcast
so i just yeah i just mean like you know when
you have a lady friend and she asks if you have
friends And you're able to bring them, like,
quality guys that give them a great experience.
I mean, that's the gift that keeps on giving.
So, yeah. There's that word, nephew. There's
that word. Quality. Quality. Quality, gentlemen.
Bulls. Quality. One of my favorite episodes.
I'm loving it. I'm loving it. I'm absolutely
loving it. Keep going, man. Y 'all, I'm just
listening right now. I'm listening to the man
himself. I'm loving what I'm hearing. Keep going.
So, so pagan, I'm gonna see if I can get you
in some trouble. You talk about quality. We got
ourselves, we, we, we jumped in the pool first.
We have a whole episode on it. So what would
you call quality ladies? Right? We, we went dig
and dug deep into what a quality bull is, but
we haven't done that part yet. So I'd love to
hear your definition of a quality lady. a quality
lady be it hot wife or cuckoldress or you know
whatever yeah yeah i guess for me quality means
the first thing that came to my mind when you
asked that was a woman who knows herself and
is complete on her own and then everything that
others are bringing to her be it me as a bull
her husband or you know kids That's all something
that's, yeah, that's added to her life. She is
her own person. I think that people tend to be
what I would call quality people when they start
from there. There's a level of self -confidence
that doesn't bleed over into arrogance. There's
a level of intelligence, obviously, when it comes
to quality, I think. But again, intelligence
does not always look the same. And then I think
there's also a person who's got a good handle
on their ego. This is one of the things I've
learned is most important to me, especially in
sexual situations, but just in life in general.
Anybody who doesn't know how to take themselves
out of the center is not going to create the
best experiences for the people around them.
So I look out for that. I look out for people
who are confident, who own themselves and the
room they're in and the air that they have, but
who are also aware that they're not such a much.
and that are looking to give pleasure to others
because those are the kinds of things that I
value. So for me, that's what. Oh, my goodness.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, lifestyle poetry.
Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Lifestyle poetry right there.
Yes. Preach, my brother. Preach. Preach. Oh,
did I mention that she's also hot as fuck? She's
hot as fuck. I forgot to mention. She's hot as
part of quality as well. What if you were blind?
You would just feel the aura or her hotness.
Well, I saw that Bray Charles movie. He would
grab him by the wrist and see how it feels. Exactly.
He knew if she was fat or she knew if she was
doing it by the wrist. Exactly. Where would you
grab someone by, babe? Where would you grab someone
if you were blind to see? The waist. The waist.
What about you, Brian? Yeah, I got to wrap the
arms around him. If I'm hugging a tree, he's
out of there. If I'm hugging a tree, I can't
do too much for you. If that waste is kind of
small there and it might fly out into a V -taper
and a little hump down there, then we're good
to go. I agree. You said if I'm hugging a tree.
Yeah, if I'm hugging a tree, it's off limits.
Like dry skin? Can't do it. No, not dry skin.
The size of the tree. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't
mind. I don't mind. I don't mind. a little thickness
i don't mind that but i just i just shout out
to to you know the bbw's out there but i just
i've haven't had much experience you know with
the bbw yeah i mean it is what it is socrates
will take them all off your hands okay everybody
so just just email me you want to slot with him
at the next splash all of your beautiful goodness
And maybe me too. When I was coming up with what
B was talking about, we used to call it the war,
the waste -to -ass ratio. Yeah, there you go.
It could be a big girl and still have that. That's
what I say. I like hourglass. It could be three
hours, two hours, one hour. I like hourglass.
24 hours. 24 hours to get all over that goodness.
As long as it's hourglass. Half an hour. I tell
you what I want to dive in. I tell you what I
want to dive into because I haven't heard too
many brothers say that they enjoy going this
route. But you say that you enjoy race play.
I too. I, too, my brother, enjoy race play. Why
don't you explain, if the listeners out there
don't know what exactly race play is, why don't
you give us your definition of it and how in
-depth it can go in this lifestyle? Yeah. As
with many things, definitions vary. My personal
definition. is kind of it's kind of a simple
well definition which is if you are incorporating
race in any way into your play then that's race
but but there's other people who feel like that
definition is a little too broad so sometimes
when you come across race play It involves very
specific things where they're saying that the
sexual dynamic is a BDSM thing. It's under the
umbrella of BDSM. So there's a power dynamic
at play in some way. And then the catalyst through
which you're doing that is race. And that can
involve everything from items that are racially
charged to words to other things that involve
the racial element as being the power exchange.
So that's kind of the definition that most people
I think would go by. But I would just say, if
you're involved in a race and you're playing
anyway, that's race play. That might be the shallow
end of the pool, but you're still in the same
pool with us. Yeah. How far have you taken the
race play in your time and the lifestyle? I mean,
and here again, you know exactly what I'm talking
about too. How far have you taken it? Okay, I'm
going. I've had, I've had a couple of couples
that, that asked me, was it okay to go there?
And I was like, yeah, it's okay to go there.
And we had a absolute field day with it. Okay.
You talking about, it's a, it is like, and I
don't mean to be taking the stage away from you
right now. I'm gonna get right back to you, but
it is a, it is a cross between being. extremely,
extremely horny because you are slightly pissed.
You know what I mean? Because of the type of,
you know, because of what you're saying. So it's,
I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. But tell the fans,
tell us and the fans how far you've been with
it so far. Since you are a veteran, you are a
veteran in this lifestyle. Yeah, I gotta say,
everything you said resonated with me too, man.
especially like you you were talking about how
the couple and they did it right they you know
they they checked with you first if we can go
there and you gave them that that green light
that's you know let's be honest that's what white
couples need they need a green light they can't
just jump into it unless they just crazy and
so once they get that though My answer to your
question is how far, as far as my imagination
and their imagination can take us. I've found
that there's not really anything that I've found
offensive or I've had aligned, at least that
I've experienced so far. Once in, I'm all in.
And that is a wide gamut. A lot of people, I
feel like when they hear the word race play,
there's an equal sign in their brain and it goes
right to, oh, that means you used the N word.
That's just what they think race play means.
And it can incorporate that. but it can incorporate
so much more than that it's not just about one
thing yeah and so where they're willing to go
or where they're willing to let me push them
which is probably mostly more accurate than that
and i'm always checking in i'm figuring out you
know you're you're you're figuring out their
wavelength of comfort and you're also you know
trying to make sure that you push their limits
a little bit and touch the edges That's what
I am usually doing or the role that I usually
take. And I will go wherever they need to go.
And what's also interesting to me is what we
don't talk about a lot of times because we're
such macho black nails is there's a spectrum
of race play where also who's in charge. Let's
say you are using the N -word. How are you using
it? Is it a submissive? use of it or is it a
dominant use of it both ways i've experienced
exactly so same here yeah i've noticed that us
brothers don't talk about that submissive side
because it's not so cool to talk about but behind
closed doors i'm well aware of how much is happening
because these couples they ain't doing you know
doing this with nobody so that is an interesting
thing about it too it doesn't mean one thing
race play it can mean whatever you make great
answer Great answer. I need to see a video. I
have nothing else to say. So I can, I am having,
I don't know how to imagine this. I've heard
it. Oh, I can send you plenty. Can you send me
one that's just like an example? Yeah, yeah.
Pagan, one thing. Is there a race play version
where I can educate the cuck on black history
facts while I'm fucking his wife? Oh, absolutely.
It can be whatever you want. I'm not lying here.
That's kind of a kink for me. I love black history.
It's my thing. There's so many, so many cucks
that would love that dude. Really? Are you serious?
Don't you? I am not joking. I'm like the ones
that we've met and interacted with. Like, I'm
serious. Like, I'm pounding her. Like, did you
know there was actually a black man that invented
the light bulb? You know what I mean? Like, for
real. Like, that cuck doesn't have a choice.
That cuck doesn't have a choice most of the time.
They're going to sit in the corner and you can
say whatever you want to them. And if that's
black history, hallelujah. But I'm saying, would
it turn the wife on? That's the question. Yeah,
you'll find it. nerdy girl? Oh yeah, there's
absolutely. Yeah, just keep it on the positive
stuff. I would love to hear some nerdy shit.
That's my area of black history. My area of black
history is achievers, inventors, businessmen,
conquerors. I don't know. I probably know less
about slavery than most people, especially from
the South. My whole thing from my father, my
biological father's got me until he was the first.
curator in tennessee not a lot of people know
that so i guess i kind of outed myself on that
one but first black one but anyway so i that's
what i grew up on is that in but taking into
a little bit more serious questions since you
talked about you know how far you will go oh
just super super super quick though based on
what you just said not only is the answer yes
like you gave me like three or four ideas on
how to cook a man like by doing that like one
of the things you could do is ahead of time how
about this how about i'm not just teaching you
i want you to look this up boy and when i'm in
the room fucking your wife you better be oh my
goodness i want you to be telling me who invented
the light bulb and like and do your black history
homework because there's there's people out there
like our good friend lady anaconda that is very
good at this kind of stuff she's playing around
like i'm educating yeah yeah so yeah there's
there's a lot of ways you inspired me just now
bruh like i think i got a new thing to play with
that my god that boy that oh man i love that
you don't understand i have like anyway we can
it's okay it's safe i googled the first black
curator in tennessee and it's not your daddy
so you're safe good okay good okay perfect perfect
I took care of you. I appreciate that. My dad's
going to hate you. My dad's going to hate you
if he ever hears this episode. But I appreciate
it on my end. You just bursted my dad's bubble.
I never searched that. Thank you very much for
letting me know that my father is an imposter.
I appreciate that. Here on the Bull Brothers
Podcast. I think the little sparkles and embellishments
on the stories kind of run in the family. So
it's okay. It's okay, man. And you know what
the bad news is? The bad news is you got whoever
that guy's son is fired just now. I know, right?
Yeah. So here's a serious question there. Educate
me on, and I haven't had the time to study it,
but educate me on BNWO. Yeah. So BNWO, and there's
some people out there I would preface by saying
they're much more qualified. In fact, I'm about
to do a podcast with three of them. lady anaconda
being one of them but there's people out there
that you should talk to about this that are going
to be much more accurate to me but basically
being a dnwo is a subset of race play in bdsm
it means the black new world order black new
world order yeah basically it is a mindset and
it frankly has been copyrighted if i'm not mistaken
or registered as trademark by several people
who are doms and mistresses and dominatrix in
the Black community. A lot of them are women,
Black women, who especially, I believe, financially
dominate white guys primarily and dominate them
in other ways too, sexually and otherwise. And
then there's also the male component of the being
that also does the same thing. Some of these
brothers, like one of the ones that I'm familiar
with, I think is a great dude. He never puts
his face out there. He just uses his voice as
his utility. And he has so many subs and pay
pigs that are paying him to dominate them. So
yeah, being in WO is a, again, with everything
in race, there's a wide spectrum. There's literally
being WO that I would call the extreme in. But
there's also, you know, lighter versions of it
where you're basically just being subservient
to the idea that black culture and black people
are superior. They're acknowledging that in many
ways, like I said, financially to sexually to
whatever. So that's basically how I would describe
BMW. So that was once again, a beautiful definition.
I'm going to tell you all this. It scares me.
And I'm going to tell you why. Because it is
the tip of the spear of the argument for extreme
MAGA people. So tell me why it shouldn't scare
me. I don't know if you know what I mean by that.
It represents what they say is the main cause
of what goes wrong. And I'm not trying to make
it political. I don't want to talk about that
end. I want to talk more in the end of... how
we can look at it as like a sincere and authentic
kink without the negative side of it. You know
what I mean? Because I didn't hear about it from
this side of the lifestyle. I heard about it
from red -pilled MAGA people, you know, had extreme
views. And then I was thinking, oh, you guys
are crazy. And then when I seen BNWO, I was like,
oh, they're not lying. So destigmatize it for
me. yeah and if you know correct me if i'm if
i'm not hearing you right but i think you know
what you're getting at is when you're talking
about black we're talking about racial superiority
right yeah so the red pill people that you're
talking about us would be the ones that are saying
well you know if you're not supposed to be any
superior race then why are you guys claiming
that you know white people can't do that exactly
we didn't say the same thing is that kind of
what you're circling okay and and sandwiched
by the cuckolding It's like their issue is that
America is cuckolding itself into, you know,
liberalism and submission. Again, I don't want
to talk about the political side of that, but
it's like if you combine the cuckolding with
the BNWO, it's like their perfect world. And
again, I don't want to talk about the politics
of this because that's not what this show is
about, but more about destigmatizing this as
a kink. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Gotcha.
yeah yeah thanks for clarifying so my answer
to that is and and some of my bnwo friends you
know they even disagree with me but this is my
personal stance on that is why are you taking
it so seriously like this is not literally huey
p newton we got our blackness raised with braids
right and black jackets on marching in the streets
talking about we're taking over the government
this is a sexual kink fantasy Where in that room,
you can treat black people as superior and have
race play. And maybe you're focused a little
too much on the race and not the play is what
I would say to those people. I like that. Okay.
This is not literally a political movement. Now,
there might be some BMW people that would be
like, man, actually, it is low key. I'm serious.
And I think that that's also fits within BMW.
But most people aren't doing that. I would just
say, like, maybe just try to relax a little.
It's a fun thing to play. You know, just because
we're playing firemen doesn't mean I'm a real
fireman. So let's just, you know, let's just
chill. And it's a fun world that you can create.
Literally a world that you can create. Perception
is reality. I'm going behind closed doors and
done things and created worlds. with women and
couples that are just amazing. It's like I'm
in the matrix and don't want to come home. But
that's in that room. And then I can come out
and every black man, I think that goes to like
Splash Mocha, for instance. One of the interesting
things about Splash Mocha is it's one place where
most of us, the one place where we walk into
a door and for four days, we're treated as superior
and put on a pedestal. and treat it in a way
that we are treated nowhere else. We walk out
of Splash Mocha and when a cop pulls us over,
we better watch our back because he ain't going
to treat us like we did at Splash. We know what
the rest of the world is like, but in that world,
that is a, there's a black hierarchy where black
men are put on the pedestal and we get to enjoy
it. So I look at it like that. I'm not conflating
that with the real world when I leave, but I
am going to enjoy the world that I'm in. But
let me ask you this though, Pagan. Have you found
that there are more couples who are, say, coming
out even like not at the events at Splash, you
know, but in the real world, they're coming out
and saying, I am embracing these black men. I
am embracing this black superiority. I am like
living, you know, like I want. to live now i'm
in a thought i'm in a proper i'm in a proper
relationship my baby girl will be visiting me
saturday and uh she is she is not only excited
about coming here but she's even more excited
about meeting my parents and my family You know,
I've never seen anybody this damn chipper. You
know what I mean? She's so freaking out. Like,
she's so happy. And she keeps saying, we are
loving embracing this now. You know, instead
of, like, being one way at Splash and then coming
back home and having to turn, you know, turn
back into that other couple. You find that you
have met some couples that are like embracing
this now, like, you know, like they are out in
public or no. Yeah, I think that you're right.
I think that there is in the in the mainstream
zeitgeist. We've all seen a shift towards interracial
becoming something that's more mainstream and
people using terms like BBC on Instagram or TikTok
and places. where they're doing videos or making
jokes or whatever this whole thing of young girls
doing we love you black man videos compilations
and stuff like that that didn't exist a little
while ago so that's how i would describe the
mainstream embracing it television movies things
like that but then like what you just described
to me which is amazing sounds like it's the lifestyle
a throuple that does lifestyle things but then
they're crossing over into the vanilla world
because you're a real throuple and you're meeting
each other's parents and you're enjoying family
time that's a to me that's like you are living
your best life you you've got the best of both
worlds going on and i think some of these other
things i'm talking about are just mainstream
or just lifestyle but what you described is the
sweet spot where you're able to cross over it's
pretty beautiful appreciate it appreciate it
yes he is having an absolute down fit like about
coming here coming here but that's amazing though
um here again man the the i love the word evolution
evolving i think this world that we live in love
And I think I can speak for you because you sound
like you live it 24 -7 also like I do. Do you
see this one day as like something that is just
open? It's out there. You know what I mean? Like
a lot of couples are saying, I don't care what
people think anymore. This is who we are. This
is who we love. This is who we love to be around.
This is, you know, we're in a relationship. yeah
i have a loving husband but i got a great boyfriend
who happens to be a black dude do you think that
whatever ever just be just a regular thing you
know what i'm saying to where we we're not seeing
the words or anything like that yeah well i have
i have an answer to that and then i i have how
that that answer makes me feel i if you were
to ask a kid in the 1955 if you ever would see
a senator that's gay or have, you know, laws
that protect gay people or that it would be as
just, you know, pervasive in our society today.
They probably couldn't fathom that world. But
we're in that world now, despite, you know, some
of the current things that are trying to bring
that backwards. We, in the long arc of history,
despite small setbacks, are going in the right
direction of inclusivity, racially, sexual orientation,
gender. in the long arc of history we're heading
in the right direction so my answer to you is
give us enough time yeah eventually there's not
going to be as much stigma around the lifestyle
and even right now the metrics are showing in
the last 10 to 15 years many more young people
are in non -traditional relationships throuples
um they're saying that they're not gonna ever
get married but they like to have maybe multiple
partners these are things that are just people
are more open -minded about now while my answer
is i think it'll go away that makes me sad man
because then the taboo ain't taboo Like, I like
the fact that I'm on the fringe. I like the fact
that y 'all over there ain't doing what we doing.
Like, I like the fact that I go behind a door
and race play is such a hush -hush thing that
it excites us even more because, oh, my goodness,
the stigma around this. We couldn't do this outside.
Now, if everybody was doing it, I got to be honest,
it's not going to have the same buzz to it, the
same electricity. So I think it might happen,
but I don't know if I want to live in that world.
It's a 50 -50 slate. I get it. I get it. I do
get it. I do get it. I do get it. Because you're
all right. It is steel. I don't give a damn.
Nobody says it is the ultimate taboo. It will
always be the ultimate taboo. You know what I
mean? I agree. The beauty, the beauty of seeing
that, that great looking black dude with that
beautiful, you know, elegant white woman and,
and, you know, just mixing, mixing bodies and
fluids and getting horny over here. I mean, I'm
okay with you continuing. But I mean, but I'm
just saying that, you know, you know, it's not
supposed to happen because it's, it's. it's it's
been i i tell people all the time hey man they
always show the film where you know you see you're
gonna see the uh slave master and playing with
the black girl but you know you won't see you
won't see his his his wife his hot wife who who's
got you know three or four mandingos on the side
all right you won't see that one so yeah the
taboo the taboo is always going to be I agree
with you. And the way you can test that you're
right is there's a million different combinations
of what could be interracial. Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely. When you say the word interracial,
it's the first thing you think. So there's a
power there that's undeniable to the people that
love it and the people that hate it. They both
have the same image in their head. That's powerful.
Yeah, I agree. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Beautiful couple. What y 'all got
to say on that? Socrates, you have been silent.
What's up, baby? No, I'm trying to learn how
to not interrupt, actually, and listen. You know,
being part of the editing part, I noticed that
I interrupt too much. But yeah, I got I want
to kind of switch gears and talk about the mouthpiece,
the wordsmithing. And I. To our listeners, I
feel like I need to explain, probably sometimes
I say it too ghetto, but it's about how you are
communicating, how a bull communicates to a hot
wife or any kind of female in this community
or sub in this community if it's BDSM, and how
well you get across your authentic thoughts and
feelings and where you want to lead a woman.
How well she receives it. So I want you, because
I am very impressed in the way that you articulate
that, but I have not heard you speak to a woman
in that, while you're in that mode very often.
So, but I just imagine and know from all of the
other friends that know you well, that you're
very good at that. So talk to me about the fundamentals
of it. What do you think are some of the fundamental
things you would need or have or understand when
you're, talking to a woman yeah the fundamentals
well i think authenticity is is the one of your
cornerstones whatever you are whoever you are
figuring out how to be that and not so uncomfortable
with yourself or if you know you just maybe don't
feel polished i think that the the better you're
better served by figuring out your thing whatever
that may be, and then being the best version
of that. So authenticity, because we can sniff
it out. We all can, especially after a little
while with some experience. But when someone's
real, you're attracted to them. That's part of
what charisma is, being comfortable in your skin
and just being real. So I think that that's one
of the cornerstones of what I like to do. And
in terms of mouthpiece too, man, I think a sense
of humor goes a long, long way, especially with
women. a sense of humor to me is not just about
being funny it's how you can show your your intelligence
the kind of jokes a guy makes shows you how smart
he is and again there's various kinds of smart
but it does tell you a lie so i i use that because
it's a double -edged sword and i also have like
the i like to start immediately almost treating
a person like a couple levels past small talk
like i'll make a joke at your expense within
like three minutes of meeting and part of what
i'm doing is seeing how thick your skin is do
you take offense just seeing your reaction and
sometimes i'm successful with that sometimes
i'm not but there's things like that that i'll
do where i'm also sussing out how real you are
whether we're going to get along do you you know
do you take yourself too seriously there's a
lot of things in there when mouthpiece you tend
to think of it as what we're saying but i like
to also think about is like what am i saying
that's drawing out something that they're saying
or i'm learning more about them because again
it's not just about me speaking it's not about
my ego and servicing that i'm already figuring
out is this person my compliment are they going
to bring something to me sure but am i going
to be able to bring something to them so my mouthpiece
is not just me spitting game it's me saying things
so that i can try to glean something from that
other person so i can get to know them better
and you know figure out if if we're going to
be a thing yeah good deal good deal you broke
that down you broke that down so so is it safe
for me to say that that when you meet a couple
when you meet a couple and you start you know
to get to know them conversation wise etc etc
you really do kind of I'm not going to say take
charge, but you kind of see exactly, as you were
saying, what you can say, what you know, what
they're all about. You want to get that immediate
feel from them, correct? As far as what you can
say, what you can't say, you know, how they react
to this, et cetera, et cetera, and then go from
there. Yeah, yeah, because you're, you know,
words are so powerful. I mean, the things that
we say. They can obviously we've all been in
situations where someone says something that
turned us off. I've had situations where a woman
was physically like I was neutral in terms of
attraction to her. And then she started talking
and I'm much more interested in her mannerisms.
And now her mouthpiece is getting me. You know,
I've had to work on me. So I really do think
it's one of those things. The idea that, you
know. There's a reason why magicians, they say
it's casting a spell. It's the same word for
spelling. Words can be magic. And if you put
intent behind them in the right way, you can
cast a spell on the woman. And, you know, if
you do it well, you know, they can also do it
to us. So, yeah, I firmly believe in that mouthpiece.
So, but how long in conversation? And let's not
say that this is at Splash, right? Because I
hate to compare things to Splash Mocha because
that's totally different. Totally different element.
But you meet a couple, you know, you're out.
So, you know, you guys are talking. There's some
good chemistry there. How long before you know
that Pagan has like that spell is getting to
that couple? That can vary. But I will admit
that after... A couple of decades plus of experience,
you know, pretty soon. You can kind of tell right
away if someone is interested in you by the angle
of their body, when they face towards you, all
these other things. And they're asking, you know,
like, you know, when we're intrigued, we ask
questions and we lean in. And then, you know,
the opposite can be true. The person is just
nodding and they're looking over your shoulder
and it's not working so well. Their chemistry
isn't hitting right. So, yeah, it can happen
within minutes, though, I think. And again, I
have to say, man, if a woman is laughing and
touching your arm as you're talking to her, you
kind of know, you know. So, yeah, it's pretty
easy to figure it out. But I would say you kind
of know within a few minutes. But it does vary.
I've had situations where I've talked to someone
for a long period of time, both digitally and
maybe at a, you know. I've seen them at a party
and another party and it wasn't a way later be
connected because it built over time. So I don't
want to say it's always in a few minutes, but
I think you could probably tell pretty soon.
But do you know how many brothers don't know
those cues that you just pointed out with body
language and, you know, the grinning and the
touching and all that? A lot of men don't know.
A lot of men don't know that. A lot of men don't
know that. So thank you for, you know, touching
on that. That's very, very valuable information
to these, especially to the younger bulls that
might be listening, right? Soccer cheese, siren,
what you got for them? So, you know, me and you
were discussing some other subjects in the lifestyle
that are not so fun to talk about. And I probably
don't want to talk about that this time, but
it did spark a question that I think I might
ask every bull that comes on here. This podcast
name is called The Bull Brotherhood. And, you
know, to give, to throw the flowers where they
belong to be tossed at, this is Michael C. from
the Keys and Inklings podcast. That is his, the
first time I ever heard it. And the thing that
he wanted to get off as a real community. But
for us, this is a podcast and this is our perspective.
But the question I want to ask you, and I think
I want to ask every bull after that is, What
does a Bull Brotherhood mean to you? Like, what
would your definition of a Bull Brotherhood be?
And I would ask both of you, Brian and Pagan,
and what would that mean to the community? Pagan?
Well, for me, the definition of Bull Brotherhood
is community, camaraderie, building each other
up, doing the positive things that don't just...
make yourself better, but make the brother next
to you better. And in doing so, you're stronger
as a group, you know, like the Spartan warriors,
you know, the way they would hold their shield.
You had to protect the man next to you, not just
yourself. And if each person does their part,
you know, 300 men can hold the Persian army at
the gates. So I feel like that's what the Bull
Brotherhood is, is like... Being stronger, we
can be individually strong, but being stronger
together. And part of that is on the positive
side, but also part of that is when something
negative happens. If, you know, someone is not,
you know, living up to, you know, what a positive
member of that community should be, then calling
that out, making sure that's corrected. making
sure that we don't buy either our actions or
silence at the brotherhood. So I think to me,
it means kind of all those things together. Yeah,
excellent. I love it. Hunk, what's your definition?
What does it mean to you? Well, he just hit it.
Pagan just hit it. But though, to add on to that,
everything that Pagan just said, for me, is the
definition of what a fraternal order is. And
to me, the Bull Brotherhood is no different than
being in a frat. And what he just said was the
definition of what I think this Bull Brotherhood
is all about and should be about. And here again,
being a military retiree, am I my brother's keeper?
That should sum it up. Am I my brother's keeper?
Yes, I am. You know what I mean? I hold myself
accountable, but I hold the two brothers that
I'm talking to right now accountable in the highest
regard. You know, when I say that you are my
brother, you are my brother in every sense of
the word, in every sense of the damn word, all
right? Even though I have a net pagan, just tonight,
just put the stamp on it for me, okay? And just
put the stamp on it. He is what we want in this.
lifestyle. He is what we want in this brotherhood.
He is what we want and need out here to teach
these other brothers, whether they're younger
or whether they got a little experience in the
game. The game is to be told. We are getting
older and we need to be able to pass on the knowledge
so the brotherhood can continue to grow and grow
and grow and go on forever. So that's what the
brotherhood means for me. This is a fraternity.
I don't give a damn. Nobody said this is a frat.
This is a frat. That is well said. May I just
say. Yeah, so, you know. May I just say what.
Yes, ma 'am, you may. Please. Thank you, sir.
May I just say what an honor and privilege it
is to just even have a part in this podcast and
in just the amazing men that we have interviewed
just in the few months that we have been doing
this. Just been. incredible for me in my dealings
with women you know especially the ones that
have gotten a little jaded towards men or man
haters if you will because when I got divorced
from my first marriage one thing I never ever
wanted to be was a man hater I wanted to keep
surrounding myself with men with positive qualities
and attributes and hopefully eventually find
one to marry and I did And so just experiencing
you guys in your conversation and your stories
is just such an honor and privilege because it's
like an insider's view into the many different
aspects of men. And I feel like I just get to
experience that firsthand and the energy just
in the room and over the phone as we do these
talks. So I just want to acknowledge you gentlemen.
And just to express my gratitude for being a
part of all of this. Thank you, Siren. That's
how I pray it's coming from you. Yes, it is.
Yes, it is. And that is why you are such a key
and integral part of this podcast, sweetie. Believe
me, I wouldn't do this without all of the family,
okay? And I say it again, I would not be a part
of this podcast without all of the family. And
all of the family includes you in every sense
of the word. right thank you believe that in
every sense of the word man this is damn this
i could talk we could talk all damn night but
i know doggone well pagan has things to do i
know he has things to do and i think we've been
what about an hour nephew over an hour yeah over
an hour see what i'm saying see what i'm saying
yeah we're going yeah we're going to have to
have a part two pagan we're going to have to
have a party that's all good i would love it
Because we can talk all night. We can talk all
night. And I cannot wait, brother. I really can't
wait to either splash or I don't know how we're
going to do it, but you and I are definitely
going to have to meet so we can sit down and
all the brothers get together, man, and just
chop it up. I know that would be one hell of
a damn conversation. Nobody would go to sleep.
I know they wouldn't. I know they would not.
They would chop it up all night. I just wanted
to say thank you guys, man. I mean, if this was
just hanging out with y 'all without recording
it, I would be appreciative. But to have this
ability to be able to put this out there in the
airwaves and just let people who might have,
you know, you know, questions or might be struggling
with something or they're just trying to get
a new perspective on some of the topics we discussed.
If it can just help like one person, this was
completely worth it. um because i'm like you
socrates michael c's podcast and other things
is how i learned a lot of stuff and i'm i'm glad
to be contributing to that whole legacy going
forward so thank you guys for having me on yeah
pegan did you want to thank you thank you for
being a part of the brother Did you want to share?
Go ahead, nephew. Oh, thank you, sir. Yeah, did
you want to share how people can get in contact
with you or some of your at or anything like
that? Oh, yeah. You know, if you want, you can,
like, on Twitter, just at Pagan Black Bull. And
then I also have at Pagan and T4WM. That's my,
like, backup account for the four whores. But,
yeah, you can definitely reach out to me there.
You can also just like hit me up directly. I
don't mind people like just email me like the
four horsemen at Yahoo. You can just hit me up
and, you know, I'm on several sites, but, you
know, you can you can interact with me. I'm on
Telegram as well. Pagan Black Bull, by all means,
you know, look me up and I love to chat with
folks. I'm always pleased to meet you. Good deal.
Good deal. Young brothers out there, you heard
him. He's always got an open ear for the brothers
out there. And I would suggest that you get in
his back pocket when he has time. And he can
teach you a few things. He can definitely teach
you a few things. I've enjoyed tonight. I really
have. Again, let's thank the brother, Pagan,
for entertaining us tonight and bringing up some
quality knowledge to the Bull Brotherhood. And
for Socrates and Siren, I am... B Morgan, a .k
.a. The Sigma Male himself, and to all the boys
out there, I tell my brothers, good night. And
to all my lovely hot wives, unicorns, and all
the sexy ladies out there, good morning. Until
we speak to you again, I bid you all a lovely,
lovely evening. Good night. Stay sexy, warm,
and sweet. B Morgan out.