00:00:00:15 - 00:00:07:10 Dr. Winn I'm Dr. Rob Winn and you're listening to Real Cancer Talk from VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer Center. 00:00:07:12 - 00:00:31:23 Dr. Winn Winn. And welcome to another episode of Real Cancer Talk. My guest today is CEO and president of Stand Up to Cancer and one of the world's foremost oncology researchers, Doctor Julian Adams. We're going to be with him today because he's going to be talking about a couple of things, folks. In fact, when you talk about the handful of people who inspire others around them to do better science. 00:00:32:04 - 00:01:00:21 Dr. Winn I am with that guy. And so we're going to have a fun time, about really trying to understand again, why you all know my passion for science, bringing in guests that are equally as passionate about science, but more passionate about how this science can actually impact their lives. And so, Julian, I'll start with just sort of saying that you have had an amazing career, particularly as it comes into, you know, drug development and all these things. 00:01:00:23 - 00:01:06:17 Dr. Winn And so the first question I have for you is, how did you even get interested in science? 00:01:06:19 - 00:01:31:07 Dr. Julian Adams Yeah, it's a great. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. It's such a pleasure and always a pleasure talking to you, because I guess we inspire each other. I got interested in science, literally in the third grade. My mom bought me the biography of Thomas Edison, and then she bought me the biography of Louis. 00:01:31:09 - 00:01:51:16 Dr. Julian Adams Louis Pasteur. And I said, I want to be one of those guys. I want to invent stuff. And since the third grade, I knew I wanted to be a scientist. I didn't know what kind. I didn't know what I was going to invent. I didn't know how I'd end up. But here I am. And, all credit goes to my mom. 00:01:51:18 - 00:02:17:04 Dr. Winn Oh. How cool is that? You know, so it's worth thinking about, and particularly, you as a scientist, you know, certainly making huge impacts not only in the research in the field that you've done on, among others, as you started thinking about research and you think about our young people. Is there any message of about why we should continue... 00:02:17:06 - 00:02:25:13 Dr. Winn you know, having young people do science and find the excitement that both of us have? And by the way, the second part of that question is, are there any threats? 00:02:25:15 - 00:02:57:09 Dr. Julian Adams Yeah. But you know that with every generation they get smarter, they're more capable, they get more talented. So it's the young people, who actually make some of the most seminal discoveries in science. And I have so much respect for that. And they're undaunted. They haven't failed yet. So they're fearless. Fearless. You and I, we know we have too many scars. 00:02:57:09 - 00:03:28:02 Dr. Julian Adams We we know what can go wrong. They don't have that kind of fear. And it's so important to have that generation continue on, on that mission of just curiosity. Curiosity is it's the, it's the DNA of a scientist. Just be curious about everything. Don't accept conventional wisdom, which we often find is conventional folly. And not wisdom at all. 00:03:28:04 - 00:03:48:16 Dr. Julian Adams So they know how to challenge, and they know how to, elevate. And with all the new technologies that they're so good at, and, and now we have AI helping everybody out. It's it's, a virtuous cycle that's been going on for decades and decades. 00:03:48:18 - 00:04:14:13 Dr. Winn Absolutely. Well, you know, thank you for that. You know, I was thinking about, again, scientists journey and how we get from point A to point B and thinking about Stand Up to Cancer, which has been one of the premier organizations that impact cancer. Could you tell us a little bit in the audience, a little bit about, Stand Up to Cancer and why you were sort of drawn to be its CEO and president? 00:04:14:15 - 00:04:43:16 Dr. Julian Adams So my, history is it's quite unusual for us to even for Stand Up to Cancer. And, number one, I was the first chemist. I'm trained in chemistry and medicinal chemistry, which is what led, me to a career in drug discovery. And so I worked in pharma and biotech my whole career for 40 years. I also joined the scientific advisory committee for Stand Up to Cancer, since its inception in 2009. 00:04:43:18 - 00:05:14:08 Dr. Julian Adams So I have always been enmeshed with, what goes on in the academic world. The, the biopharma world and always been interested in drug discovery to improve, outcomes for patients of every kind. I didn't start out in cancer, but I've spent about 35 years, most of my career in cancer. I actually started out in HIV research and discovered one of the early drugs back in the 90s. 00:05:14:10 - 00:05:44:00 Dr. Julian Adams So when I was, finishing my last gig as CEO of a biotech company, and got approval for a new bone marrow transplant graft, I thought maybe my time is up. Maybe I'll retire. So I went to the scientific summit that Stand Up to Cancer has every year in California. And, said, look, I got more time on my hands. 00:05:44:00 - 00:06:06:20 Dr. Julian Adams I'm retired. They said, well, we'll find some. We'll find the job for you. And so, I failed retirement miserably. They first brought me on as a chief science officer. Stand up, first as chief science officer. And then six months later, I was demoted to CEO. So I've been CEO for the past, over three years. 00:06:06:22 - 00:06:38:08 Dr. Winn You know, I was thinking about the Stand Up to Cancer group in their history, and, you know, I remember that in 2008, it was founded by nine women from the entertainment industry. And the crazy thing about that was that I think it included people like Katie Couric and Sherry Lansing and and Laura Ziskin and, they were coming together because I think that they were touched by by cancer themselves and, or people, family members. 00:06:38:08 - 00:06:58:17 Dr. Winn And they really wanted to accelerate cancer research and bring new therapies to patients faster. And so the Stand Up to Cancer model for most people, you know, really emphasizes collaboration among researchers and institutions. And in fact, some of you may remember that, when you walk through the airport, you'll see a Stand Up to Cancer sign. 00:06:58:17 - 00:07:16:00 Dr. Winn But, you know, we back then either music people and scientists or stars and scientists. That whole mission, though, around the critical ness of collaboration in 2025. How much of a part is that still of the Stand Up to Cancer sort of framework? 00:07:16:02 - 00:07:57:13 Dr. Julian Adams Yeah, it's our root, cause and, core to our strategy. We began this experiment of collaboration because we know how much research, was siloed. And institutions didn't collaborate and share data and share ideas. And so, these brilliant women actually were forcing the issue to get institutions like Dana-Farber and MD Anderson, and the Massey Comprehensive Cancer Center to start working together and actually share data. 00:07:57:15 - 00:08:20:04 Dr. Julian Adams And what's, turned out is we've created a culture of collaboration such that people who would never, naturally work together have become really good friends, and they go on vacations together now. So we've created a movement of, team science, collaborative science, where we can have the most impact. 00:08:20:06 - 00:08:37:15 Dr. Winn And that's awesome. And what about this concept? And it comes up every now and again, and I'll see it on a commercial or like the, last video taping you guys actually had where people are able to donate money to Stand Up to Cancer too, this concept of a dream team. What what is that all about? 00:08:37:17 - 00:09:10:02 Dr. Julian Adams So it's trying to take, tackle big problems to have a big impact. So, of course, and I mentioned young people who are developing their careers and doing their PhDs and postdocs, but also we have like a lot of very, skilled, brilliant scientists, professors, assistant professors as well, that, 00:09:10:04 - 00:09:59:17 Dr. Julian Adams When you combine, all these entities, we can start tackling even bigger problems and dealing with survivorship, with better treatments. With better awareness, with, addressing health disparities and really tackling not just scientific problems, but also societal problems of how do you how do you get that science adopted, and how do you talk to the general public as well, so that we're not these, you know, people in white coats in laboratories, isolated from the general community and unable to explain what we're doing, in simple English and in, you know, in a straightforward manner. 00:09:59:19 - 00:10:31:05 Dr. Julian Adams So I think, the entertainment industry obviously excellent at communicating. These are natural people who naturally reach the public and who have that platform. And so we've combined it, and used both our knowledge and science, our curiosity, in medicine and, the, the pulpit from which to, talk to the public about these issues that we're working on. 00:10:31:07 - 00:11:11:00 Dr. Winn You know what I mean? And so antacid going that, you know, that's when we talk about real talk that that really is, real talk. And what you just said really, resonated with me in the sense that we, understanding that science certainly progresses and science certainly is wonderful. But this reconnection that, sometimes they're the engineering feeds that result in the cell phone or the reduction in the United States right now, 36% fewer people dying from cancer today than they had been in 1991 doesn't just happen because people drink, our drinking more carrot juice and drinking and eating more kale and going to the gym. 00:11:11:06 - 00:11:39:01 Dr. Winn It really is demystifying the fact that science is not at war with community. But science is really, and people like you and me, actually going our laboratory is not thinking about how we can make money, but how we can do good. And I think that, you know, Julian, what I really loved about what you said, and the core of it is that we're bringing the best and brightest around the country to come up with future therapies and cures for not just somebody, but for everybody. 00:11:39:01 - 00:11:49:04 Dr. Winn And we're unlocking those issues around, how we can best do that. And so I really love what you just said. And I mean, that's real talk, man. I love that. 00:11:49:06 - 00:12:14:16 Dr. Julian Adams And I want to say something about my career just very briefly. I only worked on late stage disease because the biopharma really industry is had as a different business model. But the way they make money is the street stage for patients with expensive drugs and expensive procedures. And the outcomes are still relatively dismal. 00:12:14:16 - 00:12:51:24 Dr. Julian Adams If you have stage four disease, you know, you're five year survivorship hovers around 10%. So when I came to Stand Up on a full time basis, I said we shouldn't be doing that. They're very good at doing that and creating those novel medicines and immunotherapies, etc., etc. what we done is focus on early stage detection. Stage one or stage two, where cancer is much more treatable. So we need better diagnostics and we need better ways to intercept the cancer, before it becomes a wildfire. 00:12:51:24 - 00:13:26:18 Dr. Julian Adams And stage four. And so we have shifted our strategy deliberately to complement what the industry is doing and doing really well, but missing a lot of the newly diagnosed patients, that don't have those, early intervention options. And so, while the rest of science progresses, we're jumping on that bandwagon of, trying to detect, I mean, the best thing you can think of is an at home test. 00:13:26:18 - 00:13:54:18 Dr. Julian Adams And we saw that with Covid. I mean, you we treated the whole nation this way. Imagine if you could have that, to detect cancer. Now, maybe that's too much to ask, but certainly you can get a blood test, a saliva test, a urine test, and take these liquids, liquid biopsies. And if you could analyze them and apply some artificial intelligence, get to really precise at early diagnosis, and then that's not enough. 00:13:54:18 - 00:13:59:19 Dr. Julian Adams We have to intervene. We have to intercept those cancers, before they spread. 00:13:59:21 - 00:14:25:02 Dr. Winn And you know that talk about a big, bold vision. And I love what you just said. But as you said, we're here, to complement, you know, I think we all. And because we don't do a good job actually letting people out in, rural communities and those who will here, they show, to understand that when we talk about science and we talk about fighting cancer, that there is a national team. 00:14:25:04 - 00:14:25:08 Dr. Julian Adams Yea. 00:14:25:08 - 00:14:45:21 Dr. Winn Works together on the behalf of things. And so when you talk about the Dream Team in this, concept of team, can you talk a little bit more about, for example, how Stand Up to Cancer works with other groups like, I know you guys have worked in the past with the American Association of Cancer Research. I know you work with places like Memorial Sloan-Kettering. 00:14:45:24 - 00:14:59:17 Dr. Winn How does how does Stand Up to Cancer galvanize working with different groups so that when we go to the American public and then globally, we can say we're working on your behalf as a team? 00:14:59:19 - 00:15:31:12 Dr. Julian Adams Yeah. I mean, that's critical because as technologies develop and a lot of them are homegrown at different institutions, we have to, we have to capture all the data, and data turns into information, and information turns into wisdom. And we have to climb that ladder together. I don't think any institution has a, a perfect recipe of how to do cancer research. 00:15:31:14 - 00:15:57:23 Dr. Julian Adams But if you combine all these, and we challenge each other, and we fund the best science and, and just as importantly, we have rigorous review of all of our scientific programs. So we don't we we bring outside people to do independent reviews, and timely reviews so that we can get the money we raise, get it out to the researchers as quickly as possible so that they can actually carry out their mission. 00:15:58:00 - 00:16:20:10 Dr. Julian Adams Because at the end of the day, science is expensive. It does cost money, but we can't get, mired in a bureaucracy where it takes two years to get a grant. So we try to compress all that time, and we try to be actively participating with the researchers, to stimulate even more. Can they do even more with the money we we gave them? 00:16:20:12 - 00:16:22:21 Dr. Julian Adams And that's working out really beautifully. 00:16:22:23 - 00:16:47:09 Dr. Winn You know what? I love that. And you're bringing up a point that says, you know, yes, we have therapies that are working in later stages. Stand Up to Cancer is going to complement that by really focusing in early that prevention and intervention. And if you can yeah identify it. And then stop it and then intervene before it becomes even something more aggressive. 00:16:47:11 - 00:17:24:06 Dr. Winn As you're thinking about the impact of, say, funding some of this science that again, I think for the American public, we get confused because we think that this happens at the big company level, where sometimes it's organizations just like Stand Up to Cancer that brings together these amazing teams that then result in something that is changing. I was thinking about, for example, some of the work that you guys have done or some of the projects that you've funded over time, maybe you can talk about the one and 1 or 2 of the about rectal cancers, or how you have now transformed the way we talk about rectal cancers and treat it from when I was 00:17:24:06 - 00:17:37:05 Dr. Winn a medical student, even a junior faculty, to now, as a result, in large part of being able for Stand Up to Cancer, to really fund the kind of concept of the ideas that can change tomorrow and the way we do business. 00:17:37:07 - 00:18:06:22 Dr. Julian Adams Well, you mentioned collaboration. Not only do we collaborative scientists, but we collaborate with 100 different organizations, with every other foundation, we partner with them and we co-fund and we, develop our missions together. And you, pointed out that the American Association of Cancer Research, one of the oldest and most revered, research organizations with over 55,000 members is our scientific partner. 00:18:06:24 - 00:18:39:04 Dr. Julian Adams And it helps us organize, and administer the science that we do. But you mentioned also, we take risks, we want high risk, high reward type projects. And you mentioned rectal cancer. So, I was actually the reviewer of a dream team that was centered at Memorial Sloan-Kettering, where they discovered that rectal cancer in certain patient populations with a certain genetic background, could be treated with immunotherapy with a 100% success rate. 00:18:39:06 - 00:18:41:07 Dr. Winn 100%, 100%. 00:18:41:09 - 00:19:15:06 Dr. Julian Adams 100% success rate. Every patient regressed their tumor. And with a 3 to 4 year follow up, no one has recurred. Everyone seems to be cured. And for the first time in our history, we're starting to use that four letter word cure. Because that's the ultimate goal is to catch it early, catch it before you have these, aggressive surgeries or aggressive treatments that reduces quality of life. 00:19:15:08 - 00:19:42:18 Dr. Julian Adams But really, when there's simple but really well thought out scientific and clinical strategy, we were able to cure all these patients. And that is expanding into other diseases. We started in rectal cancer, but now we have seen it in hepatic, cellular, liver cancer, bile duct cancers and other bladder cancer as well. And so we're starting to see that sort of below the diaphragm. 00:19:42:18 - 00:19:57:18 Dr. Julian Adams We're able to treat certain patients, based on their underlying, genetics, with these novel immunotherapies that have been for other things. But we repurpose them. 00:19:57:20 - 00:20:28:23 Dr. Winn And is so cool. You know, I know we only have a few minutes left, but, you know, one of the things I wanted to do is to Julian, is to give you an opportunity. If you were actually right now, talking to someone, in the dead, in the center of the United States, in our Midwest, who is in a rural area, why should they care about science and why should they care about organizations like the Stand Up to Cancer? 00:20:29:00 - 00:20:51:03 Dr. Winn And, you know, because if you look in the media, in social media, and if you go to Doctor Google and Doctor TikTok, what they get is that we as scientists are trying to herd and take from them. How do you actually talk to someone in the sea, like dead in the center of the Midwest that says what we do does make a difference, and that we are literally one team with one finance just figuring out how to make their lives better. 00:20:51:03 - 00:20:54:05 Dr. Winn How do we how do you talk to that person? 00:20:54:07 - 00:21:26:05 Dr. Julian Adams I try to do it by explaining our history. 100 years ago, what was life expectancy? 40, 45, 50 years old? It's true. That was old. And then we discovered antibiotics and all of a sudden infectious diseases become much more manageable. And then we discovered cardiovascular drugs like the statins in the 80s. And we've extended life expectancy so that we're now in into the 70s, you know, normal life expectancy. 00:21:26:07 - 00:21:55:24 Dr. Julian Adams And so the same was true for cancer. Last century all we had was toxic chemotherapies. We took toxins and we figured out, and Sidney Farber kind of pioneered a lot of this how to figure out. And we started with childhood diseases, of course, and we mix these chemicals together. But they were toxic. And hopefully we could cure the patient before, we killed the patient with these diseases, with these toxic therapies. 00:21:56:01 - 00:22:29:05 Dr. Julian Adams Around the turn of the century, we had the first immunotherapies in the form of antibodies. And then we had targeted therapies. And I worked on targeted therapies. And we started to figure out how to combine all these, agents together. And what we saw is, as you mentioned, 1991 was the peak of cancer mortality in the United States, and it's come down by 36%, even though cancers on the increase mortality is decreasing in almost every disease. 00:22:29:07 - 00:22:56:14 Dr. Julian Adams Because we are getting smarter, we are putting these agents together. The science is getting more molecular. We're starting to understand the power of the immune system to help us fight cancer and to harness that magnificent system that we're all born with, that that failed us in cancer at times. But we can reactivate the immune system, and then we're putting all these things together. 00:22:56:16 - 00:23:24:06 Dr. Julian Adams And now and in the future, we're going to have tools, computational tools, AI models, large language models, large data sets, and be able to do this on a much more sophisticated way, much more predictive way as well. And precision medicine is what it's all about. If nobody is a statistic, every patient is an individual, and we have to figure out how to treat out. 00:23:24:08 - 00:23:31:09 Dr. Julian Adams Treat every single patient with the right treatment at the right time, with the right dose, and regimen. 00:23:31:11 - 00:23:56:01 Dr. Winn And that's awesome. Listen, I'm convinced, if we actually we're doing our jobs, if, again, when I talk to folks in the Northern Neck who just want to do something, how could, individual right now, just a regular Joe, who's in the Northern Neck of Virginia? How would they be able to contribute or help? Or how would they help the mission of Stand Up to Cancer? 00:23:56:03 - 00:24:25:04 Dr. Julian Adams So I have a very simple pitch here. Go to StandUptoCancer.org walk through our website, see some of the things we've done. And that is, you know, there's a nice donate button and just give us $10, $10 a month. Just think about the power of that. If you could have a million people give $10 a month, that's $100 million a year, $120 million a year. 00:24:25:06 - 00:24:38:08 Dr. Julian Adams Think of that. How we could put that money to use to do an even better job, to help all patients everywhere, not just in the United States, but globally. 00:24:38:10 - 00:25:01:15 Dr. Winn You know, Jillian, thank you for that. And thank you for reminding us all of one of the very important things you said is that you do know that. Well, sometimes we, in this world, like when we were growing up where you have lots of competing things and it's really difficult to know what to believe, who to believe sometimes, or or, where to turn to. 00:25:01:17 - 00:25:42:02 Dr. Winn What I love about what you just said is that you said you know what? Let's be transparent. Here's our web page. In fact, let's get on the web page and in fact, talk to other people. And what you said was since 1991, cancer rates have been deaths, not just deaths. People dying from have gotten better. Which means that in some ways, another way of saying that in the Northern Neck is 36% more people are showing up to graduations and baseball games and weddings and etc. and that just didn't happen because it happened and happened because of people just like Doctor Adams and other people who really been committed to making this world just a little 00:25:42:02 - 00:26:01:23 Dr. Winn bit better through what they know and the tools they use through science. So, Julian, I get I'm going to give you the last word, sir, but I'm just going to say hats off to you. Hats off to the organization of Stand Up to Cancer. And more importantly, hats off to what you just said because you're like, we don't want the science just for some people. 00:26:01:23 - 00:26:13:08 Dr. Winn We want everyone as many as possible to benefit from the science and to have as long a life as they can. So I appreciate, sir, last words. 00:26:13:10 - 00:26:47:23 Dr. Julian Adams Rob, you know, you inspire many, on so many levels. You do great research, but you also speak to the common person as you've asked me to. And hopefully I'm up to the task. But there's no better, individual that's more inspirational than you. And doing your podcast or doing what? Wherever you're preaching, you are as powerful a voice as those ladies are in Hollywood. 00:26:48:00 - 00:27:22:00 Dr. Julian Adams But coming at it from the perspective of a, a real scientist, a real clinician that offers solutions for, the future and can create hope, because that's also our, task. We've got to create hope. We've got to create. We've got to we've got to reach the people who don't believe, what we're saying and who don't trust, modern technologies and think that we're just, you know, taking care of ourselves and our careers, etc.. 00:27:22:02 - 00:27:40:00 Dr. Julian Adams And it's not it's just not the case. I mean, this is a labor of love, and we don't do this kind of thing for personal glory, or fame or fortune. So, it can come. That's that happens. But, boy, it only comes when you've done really good work. 00:27:40:02 - 00:28:07:10 Dr. Winn You know, Julian, you make me so proud to one yet be able to just call you our fearless leader within the state of the cancer, but also, you really, I think today, emblematic, that scientists are people just like you. Yes. Like many of the people who are just going to work are different, is that we really are coming to work because we do have that curiosity. 00:28:07:16 - 00:28:29:20 Dr. Winn But that curiosity is for how we can make the world better. And I want to thank you, sir. Thank you for being on here and helping us to bring more information about how scientists and how organizations like Stand Up to Cancer are just doing that a little bit every single day at a time. So I want to thank you, Doctor Adams, for your leadership and your work, to beat cancer once and for all. 00:28:29:20 - 00:28:48:03 Dr. Winn And I really love the fact that, we're talking collaboration. We're talking team. We're talking. Okay, if we know that people are working in this, we're going to complement that with a different strategy. I think all that is just incredibly brilliant, by the way. And I want to thank you and everyone listening to another episode of Real Cancer Talk, one team, one Fight. 00:28:48:03 - 00:28:53:02 Dr. Winn And, Doctor Adams, thank you for coming with the real cancer talk today, sir. 00:28:53:04 - 00:28:58:03 Dr. Julian Adams Thank you. Rob, it's an absolute pleasure, as always. 00:28:58:05 - 00:28:58:14 Dr. Winn Thank you.