00:00:00:00 - 00:00:00:11 I'm Dr. 00:00:00:11 - 00:00:03:12 Rob Winn and you're listening to Real Cancer Talk 00:00:03:13 - 00:00:07:10 from VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer Center. 00:00:07:12 - 00:00:09:11 Welcome to Facts on Faith Friday. 00:00:09:11 - 00:00:13:13 So excited to have with us today Lisa Manganello. 00:00:13:15 - 00:00:16:23 Again, we're talking about discerning truth 00:00:16:23 - 00:00:21:01 in the digital age, media literacy, and the power of AI. 00:00:21:03 - 00:00:22:09 Through the course of this conversation, 00:00:22:09 - 00:00:26:11 you're going to learn a lot about the fact that I am ignorant on all things AI. 00:00:26:13 - 00:00:29:02 But hopefully by the end of this conversation, 00:00:29:02 - 00:00:33:12 I will be a lot more informed about, you know, 00:00:33:14 - 00:00:36:16 how you use it in a way that actually makes a lot of sense. 00:00:36:21 - 00:00:40:24 before we let you start talking, it's my custom to like, introduce you. 00:00:40:24 - 00:00:44:15 So hopefully the words that are coming in my mouth aren't new to you. 00:00:44:15 - 00:00:46:09 And you've heard these before and you've approved them. 00:00:46:09 - 00:00:50:22 So, but Lisa Manganello has been a librarian... 00:00:50:24 - 00:00:53:09 again, God loves that librarians... 00:00:53:09 - 00:00:56:15 at South Brunswick High School for the past 17 years, 00:00:56:15 - 00:00:59:24 where she was recognized as educator of the year in 2015. 00:01:00:01 - 00:01:03:08 An active member of the new Jersey Association of School Librarians, 00:01:03:08 - 00:01:06:23 Lisa presents regularly on information literacy. 00:01:07:00 - 00:01:09:10 Recent presentations include “Now What: 00:01:09:10 - 00:01:12:09 Information Literacy Lessons for the High School Library. 00:01:12:09 - 00:01:16:08 Diverse Readers, Diverse Books, New Titles to Build a Culture of Reading.” 00:01:16:08 - 00:01:19:18 I love that, and “Teamwork Makes the Dream Work.” I say that often. 00:01:19:23 - 00:01:24:02 “Information Literacy with Your Librarian.” In January 2024, 00:01:24:02 - 00:01:27:07 she published an article titled “Information Literacy 00:01:27:09 - 00:01:32:24 Begins in Your School Library” in the NJEA review magazine. 00:01:33:01 - 00:01:37:01 Partnering with Doctor Joyce Valenza, Professor of Information Science 00:01:37:01 - 00:01:40:22 at Rutgers University, Lisa helped to develop the New Jersey Open 00:01:40:22 - 00:01:45:12 Library tour to give pre-service and practicing librarians opportunities 00:01:45:12 - 00:01:48:12 to visit and learn from their colleagues throughout the state. 00:01:48:18 - 00:01:52:02 She's passionate about sharing her information literacy lessons 00:01:52:02 - 00:01:56:14 with other educators and spotlighting the value of school librarians. 00:01:56:16 - 00:01:59:22 She has also served as a part time lecturer at Rutgers University, 00:01:59:22 - 00:02:04:11 where she helped to develop a course on school library climate and culture. 00:02:04:13 - 00:02:09:21 Lisa's work with media literacy has been featured in reports on NBC and CNN. 00:02:09:23 - 00:02:11:19 She lives in Monmouth. 00:02:11:19 - 00:02:13:05 Hopefully I said that right. 00:02:13:05 - 00:02:15:08 Junction, New Jersey, with her husband, Matt, 00:02:15:08 - 00:02:18:15 and their two children, Andrew and Nicholas. 00:02:18:17 - 00:02:21:15 With that, Lisa, we turn the floor over to you 00:02:21:15 - 00:02:25:08 and we're so excited to learn more about, information literacy. 00:02:25:10 - 00:02:27:10 Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. 00:02:27:10 - 00:02:29:07 I really been looking forward to this all week. 00:02:29:07 - 00:02:31:20 So it's such a nice way to end my Friday. 00:02:31:20 - 00:02:35:21 I'm going to share my screen because I have a presentation that I hope 00:02:35:21 - 00:02:42:12 will give you some more information about what I do and what my day looks like. 00:02:42:14 - 00:02:47:17 So one of the things that I try to do in my day, 00:02:47:17 - 00:02:50:23 and that's why I love that AI poll because you really got a sense of 00:02:50:23 - 00:02:53:00 who's on the call and where they're feeling... 00:02:53:00 - 00:02:55:06 as far as a comfort zone. 00:02:55:06 - 00:02:59:12 I've been trying to incorporate more AI into my day 00:02:59:15 - 00:03:03:03 because I have to keep a way ahead of my students. 00:03:03:05 - 00:03:06:10 And really, they are driving this with the phones 00:03:06:10 - 00:03:10:19 that they carry and the ways that they handle information. 00:03:11:00 - 00:03:13:14 So we're just trying to keep pace. 00:03:13:14 - 00:03:16:16 So you'll notice the the image on 00:03:16:16 - 00:03:20:05 my screen was actually made by AI and I asked it, 00:03:20:05 - 00:03:24:05 I gave it a prompt and said, I need a slide that does the following. 00:03:24:05 - 00:03:26:05 And I wanted it to highlight misinformation, 00:03:26:05 - 00:03:30:02 and I wanted it to talk about, you know, what I do as a teacher of literacy. 00:03:30:06 - 00:03:31:13 And this is what it came up with. 00:03:31:13 - 00:03:35:12 And I often use these as like jumping off points for my kids 00:03:35:12 - 00:03:39:19 because pictures are something that everyone finds approachable 00:03:39:19 - 00:03:43:01 and you can really work with and try to get kids to talk about, 00:03:43:03 - 00:03:45:11 you know, what they might notice about a picture. 00:03:45:11 - 00:03:49:02 So we'll look at some pictures as we go along that I've used with my students 00:03:49:07 - 00:03:54:12 that sort of build into the idea of how do you critique what you're seeing? 00:03:54:14 - 00:03:57:21 So, you did a brilliant job of introducing me, 00:03:58:01 - 00:04:01:18 but just to, you know, I put down my, my children 00:04:01:18 - 00:04:05:16 because they're of the age group of the children I teach. 00:04:05:18 - 00:04:09:13 And everything that I do at the high school is sort of an extension of what 00:04:09:13 - 00:04:13:08 I do in my own home and try to make sure my kids are prepared 00:04:13:08 - 00:04:17:17 for the, the world that we're, we're kind of launching them into. 00:04:17:23 - 00:04:20:21 And information literacy is really critical to that. 00:04:20:21 - 00:04:25:23 And I'm so glad that New Jersey has come to the point where we're just on the verge 00:04:25:23 - 00:04:28:23 of putting a standard in place in our schools. 00:04:28:23 - 00:04:33:11 That's going to require information literacy for all students, and I'm hoping 00:04:33:11 - 00:04:36:20 that's something that's going to catch fire and move across the country. 00:04:36:20 - 00:04:37:14 And really 00:04:37:14 - 00:04:42:05 more and more teachers and more and more students are going to be dipping their 00:04:42:05 - 00:04:47:20 toes into how we decide what we trust and what we should question. 00:04:47:22 - 00:04:49:05 So this is my school. 00:04:49:05 - 00:04:51:23 Just so you get a sense of where I am and what I do. 00:04:51:23 - 00:04:54:20 I'm at a very large suburban high school. 00:04:54:20 - 00:04:59:20 We have 27 over 2700 students this year in grades 9 to 12. 00:04:59:22 - 00:05:02:23 And really, we have a wide range of learners, 00:05:03:03 - 00:05:07:22 everyone from students that excel and are headed off to four year 00:05:07:22 - 00:05:13:19 college, to students that academics are somewhat more of a struggle 00:05:13:24 - 00:05:17:05 and they are aiming for trade school, or they're aiming 00:05:17:05 - 00:05:20:18 for other opportunities out after school. 00:05:20:18 - 00:05:24:11 So we have a wide variety, but all of my information literacy 00:05:24:11 - 00:05:27:17 lessons are designed for all students. 00:05:27:17 - 00:05:31:00 I differentiate them depending on the learners in front of me, 00:05:31:00 - 00:05:32:13 to try to make sure that they get 00:05:32:13 - 00:05:36:17 this really valuable information at a place that makes sense for them. 00:05:36:19 - 00:05:38:24 So here I thought it would give you. 00:05:38:24 - 00:05:40:18 It would give you a viewpoint into me 00:05:40:18 - 00:05:43:04 and my students if I showed you some pictures. 00:05:43:04 - 00:05:45:20 So here we are last Friday. 00:05:45:20 - 00:05:49:08 This is the opening to my door, and you'll notice that above the door 00:05:49:08 - 00:05:53:22 I have that be curious and that be curious really starts to set the tone 00:05:53:22 - 00:05:58:01 for what we do inside the library, because I want my kids to question. 00:05:58:01 - 00:05:59:17 I want my kids to wonder. 00:05:59:17 - 00:06:03:23 If we question and wonder what we're seeing throughout the day, 00:06:04:03 - 00:06:08:24 that's going to make a huge change in what we believe, what we decide 00:06:08:24 - 00:06:14:10 to follow as far as information and what we do next. 00:06:14:12 - 00:06:16:24 I have I am lucky enough to have a co librarian. 00:06:16:24 - 00:06:22:11 This is the entry to our library and you will see a wide variety of students. 00:06:22:11 - 00:06:25:22 This was, quite a well packed block that we have. 00:06:25:22 - 00:06:29:22 And we have everyone from my chess players who are over to the right, to students 00:06:29:22 - 00:06:34:05 that were in to work on a variety of projects to, 00:06:34:07 - 00:06:37:18 we had two different teachers in with classes that were connected 00:06:37:18 - 00:06:40:21 to things we were doing in terms of information literacy. 00:06:41:00 - 00:06:43:22 So it's not something that we teach once and we leave. 00:06:43:22 - 00:06:45:10 It's something that we live with. 00:06:45:10 - 00:06:48:11 So we want to make sure that every aspect of our kids, 00:06:48:11 - 00:06:53:06 we're constantly giving them opportunities to talk about, where the information 00:06:53:06 - 00:06:57:08 that they trust is coming from and when they should begin to question it. 00:06:57:10 - 00:07:02:08 So here we have my library, and I wanted to start off 00:07:02:08 - 00:07:06:19 with the idea of misinformation versus disinformation. 00:07:06:21 - 00:07:10:11 And I'm including some links that I'm glad to share. 00:07:10:11 - 00:07:14:06 One of the best links that I've found for looking at myths 00:07:14:06 - 00:07:18:05 and disinformation is the American Psychological Association. 00:07:18:10 - 00:07:22:18 They do this great job of creating modules that you can actually go in and you can 00:07:22:22 - 00:07:25:19 you can watch and learn from and get 00:07:25:19 - 00:07:28:21 a sense of what myths or disinformation might look like. 00:07:29:00 - 00:07:33:15 So to define it, misinformation is false or inaccurate information. 00:07:33:15 - 00:07:35:19 That means getting your facts wrong. 00:07:35:19 - 00:07:39:20 So that means and I want I always give the example of family members 00:07:39:20 - 00:07:41:14 because this is such a touchy subject. 00:07:41:14 - 00:07:46:01 When someone put something on social media and it's just wrong 00:07:46:03 - 00:07:49:09 and and when you come to it, you have some choices. 00:07:49:13 - 00:07:54:14 With a family member, it's really hard because you don't necessarily 00:07:54:14 - 00:07:59:15 want to come at them with the attitude of, I need to tell you why this is wrong, 00:07:59:15 - 00:08:03:20 and I need to get into an argument with you over what you're saying. 00:08:03:22 - 00:08:06:22 But I try to teach my students that this is a point 00:08:06:24 - 00:08:10:10 where you can really double down on that relationship 00:08:10:10 - 00:08:14:06 and you can say, hey, you know, I noticed you shared this. 00:08:14:12 - 00:08:16:00 Did you see this? 00:08:16:00 - 00:08:20:11 And share, an article that maybe corrects that person's viewpoint, 00:08:20:15 - 00:08:21:20 because now you're coming 00:08:21:20 - 00:08:25:12 from a point of strength, because you have that relationship 00:08:25:14 - 00:08:28:14 and now you're giving them information and they trust you. 00:08:28:16 - 00:08:31:22 So they're more apt to actually read and look at your information 00:08:31:22 - 00:08:33:11 and consider your viewpoint. 00:08:33:11 - 00:08:38:21 Whereas if we just go at our, our loved ones with that, I saw this in it's wrong. 00:08:38:23 - 00:08:44:00 Now, the difference between misinformation and disinformation. 00:08:44:05 - 00:08:46:17 Disinformation is fake news. 00:08:46:17 - 00:08:48:11 Those are things that people put out 00:08:48:11 - 00:08:52:19 into the world that are intended to deliberately mislead people. 00:08:52:24 - 00:08:56:04 So intentionally misstating the facts. 00:08:56:06 - 00:08:59:00 And I've given two examples here. 00:08:59:00 - 00:09:00:18 And these relate to climate change. 00:09:00:18 - 00:09:03:06 So I want you to think about the one on the left first. 00:09:03:06 - 00:09:05:15 This is our misinformation. 00:09:05:15 - 00:09:09:03 Volcanoes produce more carbon dioxide than humans. 00:09:09:05 - 00:09:12:17 So climate change isn't really caused by us. 00:09:12:23 - 00:09:14:13 Now is that fact? 00:09:14:13 - 00:09:16:17 Volcanoes produce carbon dioxide. 00:09:16:17 - 00:09:18:13 True? Absolutely. 00:09:18:13 - 00:09:21:14 But do humans have a role in climate change? 00:09:21:14 - 00:09:22:14 Of course. 00:09:22:14 - 00:09:25:21 So the way that the information is being used, 00:09:26:00 - 00:09:28:24 it's not not true, 00:09:28:24 - 00:09:32:12 but they're using it in a way that's generating something 00:09:32:12 - 00:09:36:18 that is incorrect, but it's still shared from a place of good faith. 00:09:36:20 - 00:09:38:19 The opposite is disinformation. 00:09:38:19 - 00:09:44:18 And that's your new data proves new data proves that climate change is a hoax. 00:09:44:18 - 00:09:45:13 Temperature. 00:09:45:13 - 00:09:48:02 Temperature records have been faked. 00:09:48:02 - 00:09:51:20 Now, if this was put out by a news organization 00:09:52:01 - 00:09:56:05 or a foundation that has a particular agenda, 00:09:56:07 - 00:10:02:00 they're doing this to specifically turn public opinion on what their claim is. 00:10:02:06 - 00:10:04:17 So it's a very different approach. 00:10:04:17 - 00:10:07:18 The one on the left, you can reason with, you can 00:10:07:18 - 00:10:12:22 you can share resources, you can educate and come at them from a point of, 00:10:13:03 - 00:10:17:13 I want to help you to understand the topic you're talking about. 00:10:17:18 - 00:10:21:23 Disinformation is a little bit more difficult to tackle 00:10:21:23 - 00:10:27:06 because that is the deliberate piece of what's happening in our world. 00:10:27:08 - 00:10:31:09 So there's free tools and there's a link to them here 00:10:31:09 - 00:10:35:05 that kind of talk about how you can begin to, 00:10:35:07 - 00:10:38:21 teach and share the idea 00:10:38:23 - 00:10:42:23 of how we get past this idea of misinformation 00:10:43:03 - 00:10:48:02 and what we need to learn, the skill set we need to learn in order to get 00:10:48:05 - 00:10:50:06 to that point. 00:10:50:08 - 00:10:53:22 We started out as librarians, a long time ago, 00:10:53:22 - 00:10:57:23 basically when the internet began with the idea that we wanted our students 00:10:57:23 - 00:11:02:02 to question what they were seeing, but we gave them questions like this. 00:11:02:02 - 00:11:06:14 And this is an outdated form that a lot of people are still using. 00:11:06:14 - 00:11:10:09 We asked them to think about, how particular 00:11:10:09 - 00:11:13:09 pieces of information if they were relevant, 00:11:13:10 - 00:11:16:03 if they came from a perspective 00:11:16:03 - 00:11:19:03 of someone that had an important position, 00:11:19:09 - 00:11:22:19 if they were accurate and what their purpose was. 00:11:22:21 - 00:11:26:16 These are things that we asked our students to do, almost like a checklist. 00:11:26:18 - 00:11:30:23 But the kind of misinformation we're seeing has really moved 00:11:30:23 - 00:11:36:12 beyond what that kind of, look is capable of. 00:11:36:14 - 00:11:40:05 And we've moved to something that requires more 00:11:40:10 - 00:11:44:11 of the person who is deciding on the quality of the information. 00:11:44:13 - 00:11:49:12 And I love this sift method, because the first thing you do is stop. 00:11:49:14 - 00:11:52:22 Now that's really taking residence with my kids, 00:11:52:22 - 00:11:57:17 because the impulse of many of my students is, if you see something, you share it. 00:11:57:17 - 00:11:59:00 If you see something, you share it. 00:11:59:00 - 00:12:00:23 If you see something, you share it. 00:12:00:23 - 00:12:03:10 Just getting them to stop 00:12:03:10 - 00:12:07:23 is is a great step in the right direction because we're going to stop them. 00:12:08:00 - 00:12:11:08 We're going to make them think about what they've just learned. 00:12:11:10 - 00:12:14:10 And then we're going to have them do a little bit of an investigation. 00:12:14:12 - 00:12:17:12 We're going to have them open a new tab in their browser. 00:12:17:15 - 00:12:22:04 We're going to have them find out if this piece of information 00:12:22:04 - 00:12:26:12 that they've just been given, if there are other sources to back up 00:12:26:12 - 00:12:30:05 what's been said in that original piece, we're going to find out 00:12:30:05 - 00:12:33:18 if there is an expert out there that we can look at, 00:12:33:20 - 00:12:36:23 and we're going to trace back some of the claims and quotes 00:12:37:04 - 00:12:41:12 to try to figure out if what we just learned is worth sharing, 00:12:41:16 - 00:12:45:20 is something we can rely on and whether or not it's credible. 00:12:45:22 - 00:12:48:14 So we do all those things, and this is a video 00:12:48:14 - 00:12:51:20 and I'm not going to play it for you, but this is a video that I use with 00:12:51:20 - 00:12:56:02 my students that talks about the idea of lateral reading. 00:12:56:04 - 00:13:01:02 And lateral reading is a really critical skill, because all that is, 00:13:01:04 - 00:13:04:09 is expanding your understanding of a topic 00:13:04:13 - 00:13:07:20 by looking at different pieces of it. 00:13:07:22 - 00:13:10:17 For example, if I learn that 00:13:10:17 - 00:13:13:22 the let's go to my example of the environment, 00:13:13:24 - 00:13:16:15 if I learn that global warming is, 00:13:16:15 - 00:13:20:20 increasing the, the atmosphere 00:13:20:20 - 00:13:24:16 and it's going to I'm in New Jersey, it's going to end up 00:13:24:22 - 00:13:29:19 creating tides that keep coming in and maybe wash out our local communities. 00:13:29:21 - 00:13:32:15 I need to do some research to find out 00:13:32:15 - 00:13:36:00 if the expert that's putting out this information can be trusted. 00:13:36:00 - 00:13:39:20 I need to find out who they are, what their other articles have been about, 00:13:39:24 - 00:13:43:08 what kind of sources they use to get to this point, 00:13:43:13 - 00:13:46:13 and all of that is done through lateral reading. 00:13:46:15 - 00:13:49:24 So if you're interested, I'm going to leave this in the presentation 00:13:49:24 - 00:13:52:17 so that you can kind of take a look at it at your leisure. 00:13:52:17 - 00:13:53:19 But it's a quick video. 00:13:53:19 - 00:13:57:24 It's about three minutes long and it's one of the tools we use with our kids. 00:13:58:01 - 00:14:01:09 But our kids actually do a lot more 00:14:01:09 - 00:14:04:14 than just sift through information. 00:14:04:16 - 00:14:08:04 Getting them to stop and think is kind of the beginning point 00:14:08:04 - 00:14:10:10 of our media literacy discussion. 00:14:10:10 - 00:14:15:11 But we set the stage for AI in a lot of different ways too. 00:14:15:13 - 00:14:18:23 So AI is here and it's not going away. 00:14:18:23 - 00:14:24:02 In fact, it's becoming embedded in more and more things throughout our day. 00:14:24:06 - 00:14:28:11 I did a database lesson with with students today during fourth block, 00:14:28:13 - 00:14:32:18 and one of our databases now has AI embedded into it. 00:14:32:24 - 00:14:37:00 So I think in the next few years, more and more AI 00:14:37:00 - 00:14:41:14 is going to be embedded into the systems and the ideas that we already use. 00:14:41:20 - 00:14:45:10 So there's no running from it, there's no hiding from it. 00:14:45:10 - 00:14:46:13 We have to own it. 00:14:46:13 - 00:14:48:19 We have to figure it out, and we have to figure out 00:14:48:19 - 00:14:52:08 what we can tell our kids about what they're doing. 00:14:52:10 - 00:14:56:01 We start out with AI 00:14:56:01 - 00:14:59:18 and you can see my search here is one that you would do. 00:14:59:18 - 00:15:01:08 And this is with ChatGPT. 00:15:01:08 - 00:15:06:16 I just picked, a search at random because there are a lot of different AI tools. 00:15:06:18 - 00:15:09:20 And one of that, the the best ways 00:15:09:20 - 00:15:12:20 we can teach our students to use AI 00:15:12:23 - 00:15:17:22 is by getting them to do some of the pre thinking about their topics, 00:15:17:22 - 00:15:21:07 about what they want to learn more about by using that tool. 00:15:21:08 - 00:15:25:10 Because we always think of AI as a tool, but not a crutch. 00:15:25:12 - 00:15:29:00 And that's a really critical thing to kids because they understand 00:15:29:00 - 00:15:31:05 what a crutch is. You know, you need that. 00:15:31:05 - 00:15:35:06 You have to rely on that you're unable to get around if you don't. 00:15:35:08 - 00:15:40:04 A tool is something that you can choose to use, has a specific purpose, 00:15:40:10 - 00:15:43:22 and is able to help you to do your work better. 00:15:43:22 - 00:15:47:07 We want it to be a tool, not a crutch for them. 00:15:47:09 - 00:15:52:05 So some of the pros are it can really help start to get them thinking 00:15:52:05 - 00:15:57:13 about how a topic could be researched or how a topic could be investigated. 00:15:57:15 - 00:16:02:10 This is an example from our US curriculum, where they have to do a paper 00:16:02:10 - 00:16:06:06 on whether or not it was justified to drop the atomic bomb. 00:16:06:08 - 00:16:09:24 And we start out with asking for keywords, because keywords 00:16:09:24 - 00:16:14:07 are what we teach our students to look for in good research. 00:16:14:09 - 00:16:17:19 So the the AI is just generating a list for them. 00:16:17:21 - 00:16:21:12 It allows students to consider a variety of approaches to a topic. 00:16:21:12 - 00:16:26:05 So these things they may not have thought of yet and it's just a think partner. 00:16:26:07 - 00:16:27:23 And that's a great way to think about it. 00:16:27:23 - 00:16:30:24 You have people in your lives who are thinking partners. 00:16:31:04 - 00:16:35:17 This is a way for students to use technology to be a think partner. 00:16:35:17 - 00:16:37:11 But again, there's a line. 00:16:37:11 - 00:16:38:20 We want it to be a tool. 00:16:38:20 - 00:16:40:01 We don't want it to be a crutch. 00:16:40:01 - 00:16:42:15 We don't want it to do your thinking for you. 00:16:42:15 - 00:16:46:01 We want it to be something where this is something I'm using 00:16:46:01 - 00:16:50:15 and I understand how I'm using it, and I understand the limitations of it. 00:16:50:17 - 00:16:53:10 So it's a great beginning point. 00:16:53:10 - 00:16:57:12 Now with anything good, there's always cons, right? 00:16:57:14 - 00:17:00:07 When we have students do this, 00:17:00:07 - 00:17:04:16 we are seeing at the college level that our critical thinking 00:17:04:16 - 00:17:06:11 skills are suffering. 00:17:06:11 - 00:17:11:07 Because if they start to rely on that tool too much, 00:17:11:09 - 00:17:15:23 they lose that ability to be the critical thinker, the researcher 00:17:15:23 - 00:17:20:15 that many of us in, in academics and beyond have grown up with. 00:17:20:16 - 00:17:24:05 You know, some of my best, projects were things 00:17:24:05 - 00:17:28:18 that I stumbled my way through and I learned from my mistakes. 00:17:28:24 - 00:17:32:21 And if they're relying too heavily on AI, then it becomes an issue 00:17:32:21 - 00:17:34:22 in the direction of we're going back to crutch. 00:17:34:22 - 00:17:37:12 We're not using it as a tool. 00:17:37:12 - 00:17:42:10 It's limited by the biases that existed in the material. 00:17:42:11 - 00:17:48:20 Now, my students are always blown away by this, but do you know where ChatGPT got 00:17:48:20 - 00:17:52:23 its source information from when it first began? 00:17:53:00 - 00:17:58:01 Anybody know? 00:17:58:03 - 00:17:58:17 Anybody? 00:17:58:17 - 00:18:00:14 So you're not surprised that I have no idea. 00:18:00:14 - 00:18:02:24 But there might be people out there who know. 00:18:02:24 - 00:18:06:07 If you could put it in the chat, please let us know. 00:18:06:09 - 00:18:08:03 You’re laughing at me Dr. Winn. That's not. 00:18:08:03 - 00:18:09:03 And I can hear you. 00:18:09:03 - 00:18:11:21 You're not muted. 00:18:11:21 - 00:18:12:03 Yeah. 00:18:12:03 - 00:18:14:00 You know why. 00:18:14:00 - 00:18:17:05 Because I don't know either okay. Good good. 00:18:17:08 - 00:18:20:11 And you just made my whole afternoon because this is my favorite part. 00:18:20:11 - 00:18:23:10 My kids are always like is it Wikipedia? 00:18:23:10 - 00:18:27:05 And I'm like, no, it's not Wikipedia, because that would be a comprehensive set 00:18:27:05 - 00:18:31:06 of information that has researched sources and that might be a good place 00:18:31:06 - 00:18:32:13 to get information. 00:18:32:13 - 00:18:34:17 And I were like, is it Google? 00:18:34:17 - 00:18:36:23 And I'm like, well, Google is just a search engine. 00:18:36:23 - 00:18:39:21 And there's a lot of things on Google that are available to us, 00:18:39:21 - 00:18:42:12 but that's not really a source of information. 00:18:42:12 - 00:18:46:05 The truth is they got it from Reddit posts. 00:18:46:07 - 00:18:50:13 Oh my gosh, about what goes on a Reddit post? 00:18:50:17 - 00:18:53:05 That's crazy right? 00:18:53:05 - 00:18:56:21 That is part of the original source material because what did they need? 00:18:56:21 - 00:19:02:02 They needed a very large data set and they needed access to it for free. 00:19:02:04 - 00:19:07:01 Now, I'm not saying that ChatGPT relies on Reddit posts, 00:19:07:01 - 00:19:12:14 but that was in the soup when this was first started. 00:19:12:16 - 00:19:15:24 Well, does that change your opinion of AI? 00:19:16:01 - 00:19:18:08 My students are like they immediately. 00:19:18:08 - 00:19:19:10 Every one of them laughs. 00:19:19:10 - 00:19:22:07 They're like, well, I wouldn't trust a Reddit post. 00:19:22:07 - 00:19:26:04 And I'm like, okay, but you just asked ChatGPT to write your paper. 00:19:26:10 - 00:19:28:18 So what do you're really doing here? 00:19:28:18 - 00:19:30:17 So that's a clear bias. 00:19:30:17 - 00:19:34:19 And much of the research and the information 00:19:34:22 - 00:19:39:01 that's free and available also has its own bias. 00:19:39:01 - 00:19:41:24 And that bias is really important to think about, 00:19:41:24 - 00:19:44:10 because here we are stepping into a new technology 00:19:44:10 - 00:19:48:11 we don't want to take with it the biases that have existed 00:19:48:13 - 00:19:51:21 through the centuries in the previous scholarship that we have. 00:19:51:21 - 00:19:53:09 We want it to be better. 00:19:53:09 - 00:19:57:23 So if we're not training it on the proper data set, then that's a real problem. 00:19:58:00 - 00:20:03:02 And I stress that third point with my kids, all of your information 00:20:03:02 - 00:20:06:16 that comes off of an AI 00:20:06:18 - 00:20:09:18 search needs to be confirmed. 00:20:09:20 - 00:20:13:07 You have to do your own research to determine if what it's telling 00:20:13:07 - 00:20:17:06 you is actually correct. 00:20:17:08 - 00:20:19:24 We have pros like this. 00:20:19:24 - 00:20:24:07 Now, that was ChatGPT that we were looking at that goes out to the internet. 00:20:24:07 - 00:20:28:23 It will pull from sources that it has access to, 00:20:29:03 - 00:20:32:05 but it also does something called hallucinations. 00:20:32:05 - 00:20:35:22 And hallucinations are things that are just made up. 00:20:35:24 - 00:20:38:21 ChatGPT much, much like us 00:20:38:21 - 00:20:42:05 does not like to tell you it doesn't know something. 00:20:42:11 - 00:20:46:04 So if it doesn't know it will, it will manufacture 00:20:46:04 - 00:20:50:07 an answer that may or may not be a credible answer. 00:20:50:09 - 00:20:52:20 I'm going to give you an example from this screen. 00:20:52:20 - 00:20:54:14 On the right... Can I ask you a question real quick? 00:20:54:14 - 00:20:55:00 Yeah. 00:20:55:00 - 00:20:59:18 You said ChatGPT just like us, doesn't want to act like 00:20:59:18 - 00:21:02:05 it doesn't know something? 00:21:02:05 - 00:21:03:23 Absolutely, absolutely. 00:21:03:23 - 00:21:06:02 If you ask it an AI bot 00:21:06:02 - 00:21:09:19 a question, it will try its hardest to come up with an answer, 00:21:09:22 - 00:21:13:24 even if it doesn't know what to answer correctly. 00:21:14:01 - 00:21:15:18 Here's my example. 00:21:15:18 - 00:21:17:06 The one on the right. 00:21:17:06 - 00:21:19:07 It says I was doing some research. 00:21:19:07 - 00:21:23:03 One of the things that I have done for years for my students is 00:21:23:07 - 00:21:26:03 I have students that read at a variety of levels, 00:21:26:03 - 00:21:29:13 and in order to differentiate and make sure that they have 00:21:29:13 - 00:21:32:23 the appropriate sources that they need for their projects. 00:21:33:00 - 00:21:36:00 Oftentimes I will take text and lower it. 00:21:36:01 - 00:21:39:20 Now, as you can imagine, that's a really labor intensive process, 00:21:39:20 - 00:21:42:07 and it's something that we used to do by hand. 00:21:42:07 - 00:21:46:03 What that means is I would take something like in this case, 00:21:46:03 - 00:21:49:18 these were, Supreme Court case studies 00:21:49:20 - 00:21:52:13 from a database online, 00:21:52:13 - 00:21:55:13 and we were looking at the death penalty specifically. 00:21:55:13 - 00:21:58:14 I was taking the summaries and I was lowering them. 00:21:58:14 - 00:22:02:15 Now, in the past, I would have done that by reading them over, 00:22:02:17 - 00:22:05:17 finding the vocabulary words that were challenging, 00:22:05:21 - 00:22:07:01 maybe switching out 00:22:07:01 - 00:22:10:17 those challenging words for words that were more familiar to my students, 00:22:10:22 - 00:22:15:17 creating a word bank with some definitions so that it could support their reading 00:22:15:17 - 00:22:18:03 so they understood what certain terms were. 00:22:18:03 - 00:22:21:03 So as you can imagine, that takes time. 00:22:21:03 - 00:22:25:24 When AI started, I saw it as the great equalizer 00:22:26:05 - 00:22:30:21 because we could now take texts and we could lower them 00:22:30:21 - 00:22:34:16 to where a student is in their reading journey, 00:22:34:18 - 00:22:38:16 and that really would level the playing field for all of my kids. 00:22:38:18 - 00:22:40:19 So I was telling my husband about this 00:22:40:19 - 00:22:43:19 and how amazing it was, and I was doing the research at home, 00:22:44:00 - 00:22:48:00 and I said to him, I'm going to show you how this works. 00:22:48:02 - 00:22:51:16 I'm going to use a Department of Education article, 00:22:51:18 - 00:22:56:02 and it talked about the cuts to the Department of Education. 00:22:56:04 - 00:22:59:21 And I wanted to show him how you could get it 00:22:59:21 - 00:23:04:21 to create a podcast, an AI podcast with that information. 00:23:04:23 - 00:23:10:00 I accidentally put it into my library with my death penalty cases. 00:23:10:02 - 00:23:12:24 So the AI tool took my death 00:23:12:24 - 00:23:16:19 penalty cases and the cuts to Department of Education, 00:23:16:21 - 00:23:21:22 and they gave me a brilliant one three minute podcast about the connections 00:23:21:22 - 00:23:26:08 between the death penalty and the cuts to the Department of Education. 00:23:26:10 - 00:23:31:10 None of it is plausible, but because it's it's guilty of hallucinations, 00:23:31:10 - 00:23:35:21 it made me a really nice response that seemed to say it was. 00:23:35:23 - 00:23:39:11 So that's one of the ways I show that as an example for my kids, 00:23:39:11 - 00:23:42:20 because I want them to see that if you put good things 00:23:42:20 - 00:23:45:20 into this tool, you get amazing things out. 00:23:46:01 - 00:23:49:21 If you trust this tool to do the thinking for you, 00:23:49:23 - 00:23:52:10 then you're at the will of the tool. 00:23:52:10 - 00:23:53:03 And the tool 00:23:53:03 - 00:23:56:22 has now become a crutch for you, which is something we keep going back to. 00:23:56:24 - 00:24:01:24 Now tools like, let's let's take ChatGPT off of the the list for a minute. 00:24:02:01 - 00:24:05:20 Tools like NotebookLM, which is a free Google product, 00:24:05:20 - 00:24:07:01 and we are a Google school. 00:24:07:01 - 00:24:09:23 So, that is a nice connection for us. 00:24:09:23 - 00:24:13:22 It integrates well with us, but it creates a walled garden. 00:24:13:24 - 00:24:18:02 And what I mean by that is that allows the student 00:24:18:08 - 00:24:21:16 or the teacher to gather resources. 00:24:21:16 - 00:24:24:14 So these could be peer reviewed journal articles. 00:24:24:14 - 00:24:28:13 These could be credible websites and use those 00:24:28:16 - 00:24:31:24 as the point that AI is going to draw from. 00:24:32:01 - 00:24:36:06 So you're the researcher, you're basically creating your file of articles. 00:24:36:11 - 00:24:41:05 And then you can ask the AI questions about that article set. 00:24:41:07 - 00:24:45:18 This is a really nice way that students can start to kind of combine 00:24:45:23 - 00:24:50:00 the history of research, which we which we know and we want them to do, 00:24:50:06 - 00:24:54:16 and then how they can lower text to help themselves. 00:24:54:18 - 00:24:56:18 The cons, curation is important. 00:24:56:18 - 00:24:57:14 Like I said, you know, 00:24:57:14 - 00:25:00:15 that Death Penalty podcast and I think I may have linked it here. 00:25:00:15 - 00:25:03:11 So if you're if you're interested, it's linked there. 00:25:03:11 - 00:25:06:00 You can listen to how the Department of Education 00:25:06:00 - 00:25:09:09 and the death penalty is somehow connected by these two brilliant voices 00:25:09:09 - 00:25:11:10 that sound like they're straight off of NPR, 00:25:11:10 - 00:25:15:03 which always convinces my kids because they sound so good. 00:25:15:03 - 00:25:18:09 It's like we're going to do a deep dive into the death penalty. 00:25:18:09 - 00:25:23:08 And the Department of of Education, which really made no sense. 00:25:23:10 - 00:25:27:07 So, hallucinations are actually a really good teachable moment for people, 00:25:27:11 - 00:25:30:19 because once you get kids questioning something, 00:25:30:20 - 00:25:32:03 they want to question everything. 00:25:32:03 - 00:25:34:04 I mean, you have children in your lives. 00:25:34:04 - 00:25:36:13 You know that every word that comes out of your mouth, 00:25:36:13 - 00:25:39:20 they want to tell you why it might not be the right answer. 00:25:39:20 - 00:25:42:23 The answer once you show them AI is capable 00:25:42:23 - 00:25:45:23 of being wrong, then they're just looking for it. 00:25:46:03 - 00:25:51:02 We do a lot with the sources, and I mentioned that in terms of AI, 00:25:51:02 - 00:25:56:00 because our databases are kind of the the bread and butter of what we do, 00:25:56:04 - 00:25:57:21 we want our kids to realize 00:25:57:21 - 00:26:01:19 that there are good quality pieces of information out there. 00:26:01:21 - 00:26:05:03 You you mentioned the vaccine debate a little bit in the beginning 00:26:05:03 - 00:26:09:08 of this session, and that's a that's a case where in my health classes, 00:26:09:10 - 00:26:13:16 I want my students to be able to know where the credible information 00:26:13:16 - 00:26:16:16 that they need to make those determinations lives 00:26:16:20 - 00:26:22:04 and how to determine what they should question based on the author's expertise 00:26:22:08 - 00:26:28:00 and the, the peer reviewed nature of their research. 00:26:28:02 - 00:26:31:16 We also do a lot with ethical use, which is something. 00:26:31:16 - 00:26:37:13 And I was saying this before the call started, my kids are so interested 00:26:37:13 - 00:26:42:16 in all of the things that I does that are not ethical. 00:26:42:18 - 00:26:47:18 For example, there was a recent lawsuit with anthropic, 00:26:47:18 - 00:26:52:10 which is a large AI organization, that was found to be guilty 00:26:52:10 - 00:26:55:11 of having taken works by authors 00:26:55:11 - 00:26:59:14 and fed them into their AI without compensating the authors. 00:26:59:16 - 00:27:05:01 Our kids, because they are out on social media, they're out on TikTok. 00:27:05:01 - 00:27:10:06 They are very active online content creators, 00:27:10:08 - 00:27:13:20 are very sympathetic to the idea of, wow, 00:27:13:20 - 00:27:17:12 I wouldn't want someone to take my work and not give me credit. 00:27:17:14 - 00:27:21:21 So that ethical piece we build into citing your sources 00:27:21:21 - 00:27:24:21 and making sure that you're modeling that for them, 00:27:25:00 - 00:27:30:07 making sure that you are teaching them how to avoid just taking information 00:27:30:13 - 00:27:35:18 and instead thinking it through that smart brain and making it their own. 00:27:35:20 - 00:27:37:02 We do a lot 00:27:37:02 - 00:27:41:07 of work with kids about search strategies because 00:27:41:09 - 00:27:44:15 a lot of the misinformation and disinformation 00:27:44:15 - 00:27:49:00 that's out there on the internet could be disproved in 35 seconds, 00:27:49:00 - 00:27:53:03 if we took the time to just check to be sure 00:27:53:05 - 00:27:59:03 that the information we're ready to share is appropriate and it's correct. 00:27:59:05 - 00:28:02:04 We teach our kids to use Google in a smarter way 00:28:02:04 - 00:28:06:11 to locate news articles that might actually speak to their topic. 00:28:06:17 - 00:28:10:07 And this is one of I've given you the presentation 00:28:10:07 - 00:28:13:20 and the handout and the lesson plan for my news literacy lessons, 00:28:14:00 - 00:28:17:24 which really focus on getting kids to question. 00:28:18:05 - 00:28:22:09 Well, if I'm looking at a headline, if I'm looking at a picture, 00:28:22:12 - 00:28:24:03 what should I question about it? 00:28:24:03 - 00:28:25:10 What should I wonder? 00:28:25:10 - 00:28:28:20 What should I be curious about before I'm ready to share it? 00:28:28:20 - 00:28:31:17 Or I'm ready to accept it and pass it on? 00:28:31:17 - 00:28:35:15 And this is I mentioned I talk with pictures a lot because 00:28:35:21 - 00:28:40:04 as a librarian, I don't necessarily have my students every class. 00:28:40:04 - 00:28:43:03 I may have them for a lesson and then move on, 00:28:43:03 - 00:28:45:08 and then do something else in the classroom. 00:28:45:08 - 00:28:50:10 So I need a common point that we can all begin our work with when they come to me. 00:28:50:12 - 00:28:55:18 And this is a lesson that I've used for a few years now on media bias. 00:28:55:23 - 00:28:58:17 It shows this, this is the picture. 00:28:58:17 - 00:29:02:02 And the caption I ask my children is just what do you see? 00:29:02:04 - 00:29:03:19 And there are no wrong answers. 00:29:03:19 - 00:29:06:18 So it kind of warms them up a little bit to, they, 00:29:06:18 - 00:29:09:18 they can talk about, you know, it's on the beach. 00:29:09:22 - 00:29:12:14 A lot of them go right to the fact that they read 00:29:12:14 - 00:29:15:15 this image as a grave or as graves. 00:29:15:21 - 00:29:17:18 And I say, well, why do you say that? 00:29:17:18 - 00:29:22:01 And then they, they unpack what it looks like and maybe the stones on top and they, 00:29:22:03 - 00:29:24:03 they say, well, why would a child be there? 00:29:24:03 - 00:29:27:02 And there's a lot of like, speculation. 00:29:27:02 - 00:29:30:20 So as we move through the lesson, I talk about context 00:29:30:20 - 00:29:33:20 and I'm like, okay, we need more context for this. 00:29:33:23 - 00:29:36:23 Here's the next picture on the picture roll. 00:29:36:23 - 00:29:41:21 And when you see this picture, it completely changes your opinion of what 00:29:41:21 - 00:29:47:03 that initial picture was about, what the story was and what was being told. 00:29:47:05 - 00:29:50:23 This picture is really interesting because it was originally connected 00:29:50:23 - 00:29:54:02 with in social media. The conflict in Yemen. 00:29:54:02 - 00:29:56:23 It actually wasn't shot in Yemen. 00:29:56:23 - 00:29:58:23 It was shot by a Saudi photographer. 00:29:58:23 - 00:30:04:21 It was shot well before, the conflict in Yemen was even happening. 00:30:04:23 - 00:30:08:09 But they made it a point to go with this headline. 00:30:08:09 - 00:30:10:24 And this is the picture they chose to connect. 00:30:10:24 - 00:30:15:02 The original intention of the picture was this was an art piece. 00:30:15:04 - 00:30:16:22 A Saudi photographer was doing 00:30:16:22 - 00:30:21:01 a spread about his nephew is the little boy in the picture. 00:30:21:03 - 00:30:22:11 He was the model. 00:30:22:11 - 00:30:25:23 He was originally intending this to be 00:30:25:23 - 00:30:28:23 a, way to show through visual images 00:30:29:03 - 00:30:33:09 how a child's love for their parents might look. 00:30:33:09 - 00:30:35:24 How could you show that in a visual way? 00:30:35:24 - 00:30:37:24 And his work was misinterpreted. 00:30:37:24 - 00:30:42:05 So misinterpretation is something that my kids really, really understand. 00:30:42:05 - 00:30:43:16 You know, they're they're teenagers 00:30:43:16 - 00:30:46:16 and they're constantly worried about being misinterpreted. 00:30:46:16 - 00:30:48:13 So this is a really interesting place 00:30:48:13 - 00:30:52:12 to begin a discussion because they've unpacked it all. 00:30:52:14 - 00:30:56:21 And then we jump into AI and the AI images that are coming 00:30:56:21 - 00:31:01:02 out of some of the news organizations and a lot of news organizations 00:31:01:02 - 00:31:07:20 pick these up without realizing that they were not correct information. 00:31:07:22 - 00:31:08:12 We talk 00:31:08:12 - 00:31:12:13 about ways that you can tell that something is AI driven. 00:31:12:13 - 00:31:15:13 And if you look at the circles, it kind of gives you a sense. 00:31:15:15 - 00:31:20:17 The foot in the lower, the lower left is, is not a natural foot. 00:31:20:17 - 00:31:22:23 You know, you think that's almost like an action figure foot. 00:31:22:23 - 00:31:24:20 It's so flat on the bottom. 00:31:24:20 - 00:31:28:02 The two figures at the top left, they're there. 00:31:28:07 - 00:31:30:02 They don't make sense in space. 00:31:30:02 - 00:31:34:04 Like they run into each other and they're taking up the same space. 00:31:34:06 - 00:31:38:02 AI has trouble right now with hands and ears and details. 00:31:38:08 - 00:31:40:12 Those are all tells for us. 00:31:40:12 - 00:31:44:07 But they're not going to be tells for very long, which is why we need people 00:31:44:07 - 00:31:48:17 to really think critically and be curious about what they're looking at. 00:31:48:19 - 00:31:52:03 Because you can be well-intended 00:31:52:06 - 00:31:57:15 but use incorrect information, and if you do, it really doesn't support the opinion 00:31:57:15 - 00:32:01:18 you're trying to make or the viewpoint you're trying to push forward. 00:32:01:20 - 00:32:04:20 So that's what we're trying to teach our students to do. 00:32:04:24 - 00:32:09:18 So my sign, Be Curious hangs over my library as I showed you. 00:32:09:18 - 00:32:10:23 And I really just keep 00:32:10:23 - 00:32:15:08 going back to this idea of how do we teach children to be curious? 00:32:15:08 - 00:32:17:08 How do we teach people to be curious? 00:32:17:08 - 00:32:22:15 Because curiosity is such a natural tendency, especially with young people. 00:32:22:17 - 00:32:24:16 And how do we build on that? 00:32:24:16 - 00:32:28:06 You know, get them to really think critically about the information 00:32:28:06 - 00:32:31:21 they're receiving, sharing and putting out into the world. 00:32:32:00 - 00:32:35:21 The world would be a better place if we all just took a minute, 00:32:35:23 - 00:32:41:02 took a breath, looked at what the facts were, and then shared the facts 00:32:41:02 - 00:32:46:13 rather than being such a quick, reaction to sharing what we've seen. 00:32:46:15 - 00:32:50:13 So that just gives you an overview of what I, what I do. 00:32:50:13 - 00:32:55:04 And I would absolutely love to, be able to I'm going 00:32:55:04 - 00:32:58:20 to stop sharing my screen and so I can see all of you, 00:32:58:22 - 00:33:03:00 and I'd love to answer questions if you have any for me. 00:33:03:02 - 00:33:03:18 Definitely. 00:33:03:18 - 00:33:08:04 This crowd knows I come by armed with like hundreds of questions. 00:33:08:04 - 00:33:12:05 But the first one is, and again, this is coming from a, 00:33:12:06 - 00:33:17:19 a spirit of cynicism, skepticism, whichever word you want to use, 00:33:17:21 - 00:33:21:03 the statement that you, you shared about the fact that, 00:33:21:04 - 00:33:27:04 you know, one of the cons of using AI or, you know, these tools is that it 00:33:27:08 - 00:33:31:04 limits it limits students critical thinking skills 00:33:31:06 - 00:33:35:22 for many lawyers, doctors, engineers, accountants, pastors, 00:33:35:24 - 00:33:38:15 our critical thinking skills are fundamentally important 00:33:38:15 - 00:33:41:17 to what what we actually provide assessments. 00:33:41:23 - 00:33:46:22 So when I hear that, it makes me nervous, tell me how 00:33:46:22 - 00:33:51:10 I could be less nervous about the impact on my critical thinking skills. 00:33:51:10 - 00:33:52:01 You know what? 00:33:52:01 - 00:33:55:19 We have not figured this out yet, and this is probably 00:33:55:22 - 00:33:59:18 my most concerning moment for our kids, 00:33:59:18 - 00:34:03:08 because how much of what we've learned, 00:34:03:13 - 00:34:07:21 as you know, professionals came from the, the, 00:34:07:21 - 00:34:11:22 the necessity of having to figure things out. 00:34:11:24 - 00:34:14:24 And if we lean away with that from with kids, 00:34:15:02 - 00:34:19:03 what happens if if that really is critical to, 00:34:19:04 - 00:34:22:22 you know, that the next scientist who's going to make a step forward 00:34:22:22 - 00:34:27:24 in cancer care or the next, lawyer that's going to figure out the 00:34:27:24 - 00:34:32:08 the right argument that's going to actually move society forward? 00:34:32:10 - 00:34:36:01 Critical thinking is so invaluable. 00:34:36:03 - 00:34:38:18 My my difficulty is 00:34:38:18 - 00:34:44:13 we can't just pretend that this technology doesn't exist because our kids have it. 00:34:44:13 - 00:34:47:11 They're carrying it with them and they're using it. 00:34:47:11 - 00:34:51:11 So as a teacher, I need to be responding to that. 00:34:51:11 - 00:34:55:08 I need to be able to find a way to teach them 00:34:55:10 - 00:35:00:01 some of the concerns I have, 00:35:00:03 - 00:35:05:09 the, ways that it could help, but also the ways it will hurt. 00:35:05:09 - 00:35:09:22 And teachers are always teaching students for a job that doesn't exist yet. 00:35:10:00 - 00:35:14:24 We're teaching them for positions that haven't been thought of yet, 00:35:15:01 - 00:35:18:07 and that's really kind of a difficult place 00:35:18:07 - 00:35:21:18 because you look at private industry and a lot of private industries, 00:35:21:23 - 00:35:24:23 their employees are being asked to use AI. 00:35:25:03 - 00:35:27:19 So if we don't equip them with those skills, 00:35:27:19 - 00:35:31:21 then when they get out into the working world, are we putting them behind? 00:35:31:23 - 00:35:34:17 Or is the critical thinking piece 00:35:34:17 - 00:35:37:19 pushing them forward and we just don't recognize that yet? 00:35:37:19 - 00:35:40:10 It's such a hard spot to be in. 00:35:40:10 - 00:35:43:10 So I wish I had the right answer to this question, but 00:35:43:10 - 00:35:46:13 I feel like as educators, we're still trying to figure it out. 00:35:46:13 - 00:35:50:00 I tell my kids, at no point did the AI companies come to us 00:35:50:00 - 00:35:53:14 and call us on the phone and say, just to let you know, 00:35:53:19 - 00:35:58:02 we're going to put this tool into your students phones, 00:35:58:04 - 00:36:02:03 and we're going to give you like two years notice to get ready. 00:36:02:06 - 00:36:03:23 You know, there was no get ready. 00:36:03:23 - 00:36:07:11 So we're now doing a lot of reactive teaching, 00:36:07:17 - 00:36:13:02 which is hard because that's not what teachers do instinctively. 00:36:13:04 - 00:36:13:19 So I've 00:36:13:19 - 00:36:17:00 asked the audience to sort of share how they've been using AI, 00:36:17:00 - 00:36:20:10 because we had one pastor who talked about how they used a NotebookLM 00:36:20:12 - 00:36:25:22 to turn their sermon manuscript, our transcript, into a podcast. Yep. 00:36:25:24 - 00:36:27:07 I think that's so. 00:36:27:07 - 00:36:32:22 I love how with AI like you said, you could use AI to either, 00:36:32:24 - 00:36:35:15 you know, take it to a different comprehension level or 00:36:35:15 - 00:36:42:00 to present information in a way that's more accessible to your audience. 00:36:42:02 - 00:36:45:07 Tell me more about how you've done that in in the classroom, 00:36:45:07 - 00:36:46:23 because that that really appeals to me. 00:36:46:23 - 00:36:49:21 Consider you have just a wide range of of learners out there. 00:36:49:21 - 00:36:51:06 Absolutely, absolutely. 00:36:51:06 - 00:36:55:05 And that's why when you think about personalized learning, 00:36:55:05 - 00:36:58:07 if I have a class of 25 students, each of those 00:36:58:07 - 00:37:02:04 25 have strengths and they have things that they struggle with. 00:37:02:06 - 00:37:07:14 So how do I, as one teacher, support all of those students? 00:37:07:14 - 00:37:13:08 Well, I has the potential to be able to be a great partner for both the teacher 00:37:13:08 - 00:37:18:03 and the students because like I said, if we're teaching our kids, hey, 00:37:18:05 - 00:37:19:24 if you struggle reading this, 00:37:19:24 - 00:37:24:18 but we are going to give it to you as a podcast so you can listen to it. 00:37:24:20 - 00:37:27:13 I mean, maybe we give it to you as a podcast, 00:37:27:13 - 00:37:30:23 but we give it to you with a handout that allows you to take notes. 00:37:31:04 - 00:37:36:23 So now you're not just a passive listener, you're actually taking down information. 00:37:37:00 - 00:37:41:13 Or maybe we give you an outline that’s AI created that goes along 00:37:41:13 - 00:37:46:14 with the original text that we wanted you to read to support you as a reader. 00:37:46:16 - 00:37:49:03 If we teach kids to use those skills 00:37:49:03 - 00:37:52:03 to help themselves, then that's a great use. 00:37:52:06 - 00:37:56:16 But the difference again, I keep going back to tool or crutch and, 00:37:56:16 - 00:38:01:11 and asking the students, well, where do you see yourself in this AI journey? 00:38:01:13 - 00:38:06:16 Are you using it as a crutch and and my kids are pretty forthcoming about that. 00:38:06:16 - 00:38:10:14 I think all of our kids are very forthcoming Lisa, about 50 things. 00:38:10:14 - 00:38:14:03 But yes. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. 00:38:14:03 - 00:38:16:07 Working on a high school for the last 19 years. 00:38:16:07 - 00:38:18:02 Yes, 100%. 00:38:18:02 - 00:38:19:24 I think Doctor Winn has a question. 00:38:19:24 - 00:38:20:21 He's been so polite. 00:38:20:21 - 00:38:22:15 He raised his hand. 00:38:22:15 - 00:38:25:09 So I am a little worried. 00:38:25:09 - 00:38:29:05 And as a teacher, I think I have the right person with me. 00:38:29:07 - 00:38:33:19 If you look at historic National Assessment 00:38:33:19 - 00:38:38:12 educational progress test scores, which is the nation report card. 00:38:38:14 - 00:38:41:20 It turns out that fourth and eighth graders 00:38:41:22 - 00:38:46:04 have the lowest scores in decades. 00:38:46:06 - 00:38:49:09 And in fact even lower than, you know, 00:38:49:09 - 00:38:52:09 the pre-pandemic type stuff. Yep. 00:38:52:13 - 00:38:56:03 I'm worried because I had thought that 00:38:56:03 - 00:39:00:01 this was just all due to the pandemic. 00:39:00:03 - 00:39:03:20 And if you look at other countries, there is a dip, 00:39:03:20 - 00:39:07:02 for example, in China and a couple, you know, European countries. 00:39:07:02 - 00:39:08:18 But that has gone back up. 00:39:08:18 - 00:39:11:09 Yes. We have not gone back up. 00:39:11:09 - 00:39:13:02 We have plunged. 00:39:13:02 - 00:39:16:03 I mean, these are some of the lowest scores 00:39:16:03 - 00:39:20:10 by fourth and eighth graders we have had in decades. 00:39:20:10 - 00:39:26:12 Like, in fact, I think someone said before, president, I think, Peter, 00:39:26:12 - 00:39:30:06 Jimmy Carter started the educational thing because we were trying to. 00:39:30:08 - 00:39:36:00 So how does how do you think, as a teacher that this I or what other 00:39:36:02 - 00:39:41:12 is there a role for how we should see it as a warning sign. 00:39:41:14 - 00:39:46:17 But not to get rid of but to be able to refine. 00:39:46:19 - 00:39:48:11 Because I'm worried because 00:39:48:11 - 00:39:52:13 it turns out also that our kids who are already we're at risk. 00:39:52:15 - 00:39:55:02 The gap between those who know who 00:39:55:02 - 00:39:58:23 really amazing prep schools and those who are not yet actually 00:39:59:00 - 00:40:03:16 for the over the last couple extra years has is also widening. 00:40:03:16 - 00:40:08:12 So how do we recognize what the AI is contributing that so that we 00:40:08:12 - 00:40:11:23 you can't fix what you don't know is contributing to the problem. 00:40:11:23 - 00:40:14:18 So how are you thinking about that? And how can we help? 00:40:14:18 - 00:40:16:05 Exactly, exactly. 00:40:16:05 - 00:40:17:22 And that's really the challenge. 00:40:17:22 - 00:40:21:03 And I think our students recognize that as much as we do. 00:40:21:09 - 00:40:25:18 They're really, I always look to my students 00:40:25:18 - 00:40:29:10 as, the, the voice 00:40:29:10 - 00:40:35:16 of their generation and kind of explaining to me where they are in their journey 00:40:35:18 - 00:40:38:18 and they're so good at, 00:40:38:21 - 00:40:41:21 understanding 00:40:41:24 - 00:40:45:02 a technology might not be the best for them, 00:40:45:02 - 00:40:48:21 but that doesn't mean they're very good at keeping from using it 00:40:48:21 - 00:40:55:13 in a way that they know is probably not constructive for them. 00:40:55:15 - 00:40:57:24 What I mean by that is, if you think about phones 00:40:57:24 - 00:41:01:13 and this is a very large conversation, 00:41:01:19 - 00:41:07:02 between AI and phones and the 1 to 1 that we've done to our students 00:41:07:04 - 00:41:11:18 since the pandemic, that really, you know, before the pandemic, in my school, 00:41:11:18 - 00:41:14:24 we were not 1 to 1, we didn't spend 00:41:14:24 - 00:41:18:06 quite so much time on a screen as we do now. 00:41:18:11 - 00:41:23:05 And you're right, the test scores are showing that there's been a change. 00:41:23:05 - 00:41:25:19 They're showing, and it's not a positive change. 00:41:25:19 - 00:41:28:08 So what do we do with that? 00:41:28:08 - 00:41:31:01 In my case, 00:41:31:01 - 00:41:35:03 I think we need to go back to 00:41:35:03 - 00:41:38:19 some of the things we know are working for our kids. 00:41:38:24 - 00:41:41:03 So what do we know works for kids. 00:41:41:03 - 00:41:45:14 We know that reading works for kids, that we can 100%. 00:41:45:14 - 00:41:48:01 And I am a librarian, and I'm sitting in a room full of books. 00:41:48:01 - 00:41:49:23 And I said that to my kids this morning. 00:41:49:23 - 00:41:52:07 They came in for book talks, and I was like, 00:41:52:07 - 00:41:54:06 I was like, you're preaching to the choir guys. 00:41:54:06 - 00:41:56:21 I said, I love to read, and I'm going to tell you 00:41:56:21 - 00:41:59:21 about every book that I've read that I think you might love to read. 00:41:59:22 - 00:42:04:05 But if you think about my school now, my school has a library. 00:42:04:07 - 00:42:08:16 It has a librarian and a lot of schools do not. 00:42:08:18 - 00:42:13:07 And just that, if you don't have a librarian, if you don't have a library, 00:42:13:13 - 00:42:17:02 you don't have the resources that are around me. 00:42:17:06 - 00:42:21:15 Well, you're never going to pick up a book and read because you don't have access. 00:42:21:17 - 00:42:26:00 And that's where equity really does come into play with this discussion, 00:42:26:00 - 00:42:29:24 because not just in terms of what the technology that's available to 00:42:29:24 - 00:42:34:12 the student, but also what resources aren't available to the student. 00:42:34:14 - 00:42:39:14 Even if you're giving them that 1 to 1 device, if they're not in an environment 00:42:39:14 - 00:42:42:17 where they have access to explore 00:42:42:17 - 00:42:46:15 and learn and, and and be creative and, 00:42:46:17 - 00:42:52:01 extend all those good kind of practices that we know works. 00:42:52:03 - 00:42:55:22 Well, that's part of our problem, too. 00:42:55:24 - 00:42:59:06 So I shouldn't feel bad as an older person that I can't, that 00:42:59:06 - 00:43:02:06 I don't know the difference between Insta, snap, gram or what. 00:43:02:06 - 00:43:03:06 I don't know what the thing is. 00:43:03:06 - 00:43:03:23 Heck no. 00:43:03:23 - 00:43:05:03 I should be thinking about. 00:43:05:03 - 00:43:07:03 Did you say snapgram? 00:43:07:03 - 00:43:12:00 Okay, I guess you lost your digital literacy card. 00:43:12:02 - 00:43:12:24 I talked to that. 00:43:12:24 - 00:43:15:02 I love to do that to the kids. 00:43:15:02 - 00:43:19:07 I will deliberately like misname things. 00:43:19:07 - 00:43:20:05 And they all do stuff. 00:43:20:05 - 00:43:21:24 I don't know. 00:43:21:24 - 00:43:23:10 You're just so old. 00:43:23:10 - 00:43:28:12 I'm like, I know it's so hard to be this old. 00:43:28:14 - 00:43:32:12 Well, well, Lisa I will tell you when you showed pictures of your library, 00:43:32:12 - 00:43:35:17 it's probably the one that's one of the most active, dynamic 00:43:35:17 - 00:43:39:19 sort of interactive space that I've ever seen. 00:43:39:21 - 00:43:41:12 And I think it goes back to that point. 00:43:41:12 - 00:43:43:13 You were talking about resources, right? 00:43:43:13 - 00:43:46:16 Like you, you know, people get it looks like that 00:43:46:16 - 00:43:50:19 because there are resources that help support, what you're doing. 00:43:50:19 - 00:43:53:24 So I think the equity question point was, was a really good one. 00:43:54:02 - 00:43:55:15 I don't know if you've had a chance 00:43:55:15 - 00:43:59:03 to take a look at some of the use cases, but they've been pretty amazing. 00:43:59:09 - 00:44:03:14 Somebody use it to prepare a seven week Bible study. 00:44:03:16 - 00:44:09:09 People are preparing it, to help them with diabetes awareness presentations 00:44:09:09 - 00:44:15:10 that they just remembered they need to do for, church on Sunday. 00:44:15:12 - 00:44:16:07 I think people 00:44:16:07 - 00:44:19:16 use it for making recipes, for generating meeting notes. 00:44:19:16 - 00:44:22:21 So there's somebody I mean, this is great. 00:44:22:23 - 00:44:26:09 Just copy your test results from my chart. 00:44:26:09 - 00:44:30:08 And as AI tell me what this means and prepare me 00:44:30:08 - 00:44:34:17 for the conversation I'm going to have with my doctor, fantastic. 00:44:34:21 - 00:44:37:21 And that's personalized learning on the adult level. 00:44:37:22 - 00:44:41:11 That's what we want our kids to learn to do, use it as a tool. 00:44:41:11 - 00:44:44:15 Now, we didn't use it to find out the diagnosis 00:44:44:15 - 00:44:48:05 or to talk about what my options are, or that's all. 00:44:48:05 - 00:44:51:21 Those are all questions that should remain with your health care provider. 00:44:52:01 - 00:44:58:01 But having that ability to kind of discuss this ahead of time and plan out 00:44:58:01 - 00:45:01:05 how you're going to have that conversation with a doctor, 00:45:01:11 - 00:45:04:09 especially if you're someone that's a little bit worried about 00:45:04:09 - 00:45:07:19 what the doctor might say or saying the wrong thing, 00:45:07:23 - 00:45:10:23 you now have that support that you can go in with, 00:45:10:23 - 00:45:15:00 which really does change the way you have that conversation. 00:45:15:02 - 00:45:17:18 Okay. Lisa. So Alec, sorry. 00:45:17:18 - 00:45:18:12 Somebody have a question? 00:45:18:12 - 00:45:19:01 Yeah. 00:45:19:01 - 00:45:22:06 I'm wondering whether you can understand me or hear me. 00:45:22:08 - 00:45:23:01 I can hear you. 00:45:23:01 - 00:45:25:07 Yes. Yes. 00:45:25:07 - 00:45:29:03 I'm Doctor Manson, a 40 year retired music educator. 00:45:29:09 - 00:45:32:19 So I'm talking from the elementary perspective 00:45:32:21 - 00:45:35:21 when, doctor Winn, you gave the statistics, 00:45:35:21 - 00:45:38:23 what we're looking at is, is that what was going on? 00:45:38:23 - 00:45:41:23 What is going on as far as reading 00:45:42:03 - 00:45:44:18 and reading comprehension? 00:45:44:18 - 00:45:48:19 And the primary and the elementary levels. 00:45:48:21 - 00:45:51:09 If we're not solid there, 00:45:51:09 - 00:45:54:16 then how can they be in fourth and eighth grade? 00:45:54:16 - 00:45:56:09 How can they excel? 00:45:56:09 - 00:45:59:09 So there's an issue in the primary level. 00:45:59:13 - 00:46:03:06 And even before then, because a lot of our children 00:46:03:08 - 00:46:07:12 are technology savvy, even a baby's being given a computer. 00:46:07:14 - 00:46:08:03 Okay. 00:46:08:03 - 00:46:12:06 But we are talking about reading skills. 00:46:12:08 - 00:46:15:17 So I do know in the elementary setting you have the Stem program 00:46:15:17 - 00:46:16:20 which is wonderful. 00:46:16:20 - 00:46:23:01 But still you have to be able to read and to be able to comprehend. 00:46:23:03 - 00:46:23:24 So I'm so 00:46:23:24 - 00:46:27:18 glad you brought that up because I was at a, I was at a conference 00:46:27:18 - 00:46:31:05 on Wednesday and we were talking about college readiness, 00:46:31:11 - 00:46:35:19 and one of the deficits that many of the professors spoke to 00:46:35:20 - 00:46:39:20 was this idea of a loss of critical thinking and reading comprehension. 00:46:39:22 - 00:46:44:13 And it's not just comprehension, it's the stamina to read. 00:46:44:15 - 00:46:48:07 It's the stamina to take on a complicated text. 00:46:48:07 - 00:46:50:09 And I always tell my focus, right? 00:46:50:09 - 00:46:52:03 Yes. Yes. 00:46:52:03 - 00:46:54:14 And think, how many other areas of your life 00:46:54:14 - 00:46:58:00 that focus, not attention, really was valuable for? 00:46:58:00 - 00:47:02:09 It wasn't just for reading, but it it helped you to build that. 00:47:02:11 - 00:47:05:10 And really, that's what our kids are missing. 00:47:05:10 - 00:47:07:13 That's what we need to get. 00:47:07:13 - 00:47:10:13 I think that's what we need to go back to. 00:47:10:16 - 00:47:13:20 These tools are great, but the reason they work is because 00:47:13:20 - 00:47:15:16 we understand the topic. 00:47:15:16 - 00:47:18:17 We're asking it to research, talk about, 00:47:18:17 - 00:47:22:12 highlight, do notes on, do a presentation about. 00:47:22:12 - 00:47:25:16 We can look at it and say, okay, well you got this right and you got this wrong. 00:47:25:16 - 00:47:26:15 And I need to change this 00:47:26:15 - 00:47:30:14 here, and I need to make this you know, a different point. 00:47:30:16 - 00:47:34:14 If our kids don't have that, what are they doing? 00:47:34:16 - 00:47:36:21 You know, could I just one quick question. 00:47:36:21 - 00:47:38:03 So quick. 00:47:38:03 - 00:47:38:24 Quick time. 00:47:38:24 - 00:47:42:18 Is going to be real quick, you know, so I was thinking about the context of what 00:47:42:18 - 00:47:46:07 you were just talking about in enrollment to getting bachelor's degrees. 00:47:46:09 - 00:47:51:12 In 2000, and I mean, numbers, maybe it, maybe wrong, but early 2000, 00:47:51:15 - 00:47:56:17 it was around 70%, and I recently came across something that said, in 2022 00:47:56:17 - 00:48:01:17 or 2023 that has dropped down to 40% or in that neighborhood. 00:48:01:19 - 00:48:06:20 The question that I have is we know what AI contributes to, 00:48:06:22 - 00:48:10:04 but are you all talking about AI and how you can break the cycle? 00:48:10:04 - 00:48:14:12 How do you use it so we can build better reading skills, how we can use it to build 00:48:14:12 - 00:48:19:12 maybe better interest in, you know, critical thinking. 00:48:19:14 - 00:48:19:24 But it 00:48:19:24 - 00:48:23:03 has that ability to, I mean, that personalized learning. 00:48:23:03 - 00:48:24:15 Think about the power of that. 00:48:24:15 - 00:48:30:08 Even at the elementary school, if you have a classroom of 25 young readers 00:48:30:10 - 00:48:33:23 and they're reading at different levels, if you have the ability 00:48:34:01 - 00:48:39:01 to have a technology tool that offers graphic organizers 00:48:39:01 - 00:48:44:06 and creates them for the teacher, builds scaffolded texts 00:48:44:06 - 00:48:49:23 that allow the child to be successful while keeping up with the class. 00:48:50:00 - 00:48:53:13 AI has the potential to do all those good things. 00:48:53:18 - 00:48:55:16 We just have to get the kids to realize 00:48:55:16 - 00:49:00:08 that you need to use it as a tool, and not as a crutch. 00:49:00:10 - 00:49:01:04 Thank you. 00:49:01:04 - 00:49:03:08 Lisa. 00:49:03:08 - 00:49:04:22 We have more questions. 00:49:04:22 - 00:49:06:05 We don’t have enough time. 00:49:06:05 - 00:49:08:03 Oh, my email address is always open. 00:49:08:03 - 00:49:10:01 You can email me with anything. 00:49:10:01 - 00:49:11:03 Definitely. We'll do that. 00:49:11:03 - 00:49:15:21 But I do love your, I guess, mantra of be curious, right. 00:49:15:21 - 00:49:18:05 Speak honestly, act with integrity. 00:49:18:05 - 00:49:23:03 I think if we held all of those values, we could we could navigate anything, 00:49:23:03 - 00:49:27:06 even those of us who are who are not the best at AI. 00:49:27:08 - 00:49:30:02 So thank you for being here, Lisa. I really appreciate you.