WEBVTT

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I'm Dr. Rob Wynn, and you're listening to Real

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Cancer Talk from VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer

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Center. Good afternoon, everybody. We're going

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to go ahead and get started. Again, it's so good

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to see so many of your faces. Today, we're going

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to talk about the VCU Massey Community Grant

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Initiative. We've been teasing it for a while,

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but we'll get in some detail about it just to

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make sure that folks are aware of upcoming deadlines.

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Um, and the other part of our conversation today

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is it's a hard conversation, but it's a conversation

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that's needed and that's intimate partner violence

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and mental wellness. It seems like a oxymoron

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to say, you know, intimate partner and violence,

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but it does happen more often than people want

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to acknowledge. So today we're just going to

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be fully transparent and have a really open conversation

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with Dr. Browns, I get to say that, yay. But

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before we go any further, I'm gonna ask Dr. Larry

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Brayboy, who's here with us today, to open us

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up in prayer. Welcome, thank you. Lord, we offer

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this prayer on behalf of all of our brothers

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and sisters at facts and faith and beyond. We

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ask for your blessing, wisdom and guidance as.

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We discussed the issues of the day. We pray that

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our efforts will bring hope, health, and healing

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to all of the communities and people of faith

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that we reach. And we ask these things in your

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name. Amen. Amen. Dr. Brayboy, hope, health,

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and healing. I'm stealing that. I'm going to

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use it in the future. Yes, we definitely pray

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for God. divine guidance on all three fronts.

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So with that, Dr. Nguyen, I know you're in DC,

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as you've reported. Tell us what's going on health

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-wise. I will acknowledge I haven't gotten my

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flu shot or my COVID shot yet, but they are coming

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up. I have to prepare myself mentally and physically

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for that challenge, because you know it takes

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me out for like 36 hours, but it's worth it.

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So Dr. Wynn, what else do you have to share with

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us today? Unfortunately, many of you know that

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as a result of the closure of the parts of the

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federal government, there is no new advice coming

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out of the CDC because it's closed. There's nothing

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coming out of the NIH and NCI. This morning,

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we are hopeful though. that things will be resolved

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by the end of the month. It looks as if that

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every time they get kind of close to something

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that something else happened. So we're pretty

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sure that by the end of the month, going into

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November, the government will likely be open.

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Why is this important? It's important because

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if you have to get scripts to get your COVID

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shot, we will make that easy. at most of your

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primary care docs, most of your health systems,

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just like VCU Massey and VCU. I'm gonna suggest

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to you that the flu and the COVID vaccine still

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are probably more important this year relative

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to what they have been in the past, simply because

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we suspect that because there's been this extra

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step of getting or having to get vaccinated,

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that there will be more carriers with COVID and

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different strains. Same thing is true with the

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flu. So the recommendations going to be at the

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moment, the best I could get from the folks that

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I can talk with at the CDC is that they are strongly

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recommending that people still get, or at least

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I should say, let me qualify that, the old timers.

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They are definitely sort of arguing that everyone

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should continue to get the flu vaccine and the

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COVID vaccine. and that the extra step of having

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to either get the nurse practitioner, the advanced

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practicing nurse, the doctor to just write a

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script for it is actually a good thing, or shouldn't

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be an hindrance to you're doing the right thing.

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So let's get those shots, except, you know, we're

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now all the way in October. You know, we really,

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you know, as you know, this goes through the

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fall. So if we can get people, Stats and Arms,

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as we're calling it now, um and people before

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november that will be a good thing so we need

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to clarify what you mean by old timers because

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some of us are about to have a milestone birthday

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next year so what what number are you talking

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about in a ballpark i was referring to the people

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had who had been at the cdc for more than 10

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years um and uh but i will say the following

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that if you have other diseases, diabetes, hypertension,

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if you have other issues, if you have ever been

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on steroids in and out, if you have asthma, you

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should get your shot. I mean, that's just the

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way it goes down. And so my goal is to actually

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message today that in your congregations on Sunday,

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in your community work with your folks within

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the community, we still should be not moving

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away from getting the annual COVID, an annual

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flu shot, we should just say that we have to

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overcome one additional obstacle, but let's get

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it. That's great. And doctor, I mean, I call

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everybody doctor now or reverend, but Leonard

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Edlo, thank you for letting people know that

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anyone over the age of three can get a flu and

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COVID vaccine at a pharmacy without prescription.

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So that's awesome. That's great to know. Well,

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thank you, Dr. Nguyen. Stay warm. I enjoy your

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time, you know, waving at your event. Yeah, so

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so so that folks know so I was the I'm at the

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NDC because it's my the last year and they're

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selling me braiding my transition of the gavel

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to the next president chair of the American Association

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of Cancer Institute. This is one that's been

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around since 1952 famously. has been noted to

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have four Nobel Prize winners who were president

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in chairs before I was. The distinction is I'm

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the first African -American and the first Virginian

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ever to hold this position so the meeting starts

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in a few hours and Friday it will go until Tuesday

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morning until I gavel out but just wanted to

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make sure I was with you guys to give me the

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information that ain't done change get the shots.

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Yes, cause yes, cause crazy talking. I don't

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mean that you got to actually act crazy. Get

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your shots. Let's get them in before November

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on your Sundays. Tell people that again, those

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shots still matter. I don't care what anybody

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says. Let's still get those shots this year to

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keep each other safe and keep ourselves safe

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and healthy. Awesome power clap for you. Do you

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know whose power clap is one on one power clap?

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For you and for getting the shots, okay? So send

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pictures. All right, we'll do. All right, so

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now we're gonna turn it over to Dr. Sutton to

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talk about, again, we've been teasing this, the

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VCU Massie Community Grant Initiative. Dr. Sutton?

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All right, happy Friday, everyone. So like Rudine

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said, we're really excited to be able to do this

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again this year. We were able to do community

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grants last year. And, you know, I know Dr. Wynn

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probably had to go because he's very busy, but

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like we're really indebted to him for providing

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these opportunities for us to provide grant opportunities

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to our community partners. So I just have, I

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thought it was easiest in this case if I share

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a few slides with you so you can see as I go

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along. So we have three levels of grants that

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we're offering this year. Our first level is

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called our seed grant. That is a $5 ,000 award

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for a one -year or 12 -month period. And this

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particular grant is in order for you to come

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up with some ideas as our community partners

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around cancer prevention, detection, survivorship,

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policy, anything that we can align with cancer.

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So you can see we're on the whole trajectory

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of cancer, whether it's how to prevent it. whether

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it's how to help people get access to treatment,

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whether it's about how to improve the lives of

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survivorship anywhere within there. And it's

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a very beginning. So this is an opportunity for

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you to develop something, to collect some data,

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to do some training. This is what this kind of

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grant is for. In addition to that, we have the

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Cultivate grant, which I'm very excited about

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this year. The Cultivate grant is a $20 ,000

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award that's over a 12 -month period. And this

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one is different because this is to help build

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capacity within your community organization.

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So our goal as community engagement at Massey

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is not just to provide these grants, it's to

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help you and your organizations to be able to

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go out to get other larger grants. So if you

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are interested in helping to build capacity,

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whether that's you want some training in grant

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writing, training in budget management, training

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in how to even identify grants. all of those

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trainings, if you're awarded this, will be a

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part of that 12 -year award, a 12 -month, geez

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Louise, 12 years, that'd be nice, that 12 -month

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award, okay? And in addition to that, you will

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also get partnered with one of our Massey investigators.

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And we're doing that because we want to be able

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to help partner our Massey investigators and

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community partners that have like interests.

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So let's say, for instance, your church or your

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organization is really interested in colorectal

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cancer and maybe how to prevent it. We will find

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some of our Massey investigators who also have

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that interest, partner you all together with

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hopes that you all can go out and apply for some

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larger grants and work together. So that is our

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Cultivate Award. Lastly is our harvest grant

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level. So the harvest grant level, this is $50

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,000. It's over a 24 month period. And these

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are for organizations that really have kind of,

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we say they established programs. So you maybe

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have already had like a seed award or a cultivate

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award in the past or some other type of grant

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and you're ready to move on to a larger grant.

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okay and so ideally in these in these cases you'll

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be partnering and actually it's a requirement

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for this one that you'll partner with someone

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in Massey and if you're interested we'll help

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you with identifying that individual but this

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is I'm ready for this we have a program we're

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ready to build out and eventually in the next

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two years we want to go for a larger award. So

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these are our three levels that we have and we

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have some key dates coming up. So all of this

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information is available online, but we recognize

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that some folks are new to this and some folks

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need some additional resources to help. We all

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do when it comes down to grant writing. So we

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have a couple of dates here. We're going to offer

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a technical assistance webinar on November 7th,

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specifically for the SEAD Award. And the SEAD

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applications are due on December the 15th at

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1159 as academics love to push things to the

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last minute. So 1159 PM is when you can submit

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it. January 16th, we'll announce the awards.

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We have a potential launch date of March the

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1st of 2026 and then your project within February

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of 2027. Now there are different dates for the

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cultivate and harvest. So your letters of intent

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for cultivate or harvest are due on November

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the 6th by 1159. And by November 19th, your organization

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will receive some correspondence if you're invited

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for a full proposal. Then we have a December

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the 3rd proposal development workshop. And this

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workshop is required for cultivate applications

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but optional for harvest. It's very helpful it

00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:12.000
also gives you an opportunity to ask questions

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to get further clarification anything you may

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need prior to developing your proposal. December

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3rd through March the 1st we'll establish those

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collaborations with Massey investigators so you'll

00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:24.960
work with our team so we can identify what your

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needs are what you're looking for and make sure

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we have a nice alignment with one of our team

00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:31.700
members here at Massey and then finally in March

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the full proposals will be due. Okay, so we again

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like I said, we are very excited here if you

00:12:37.850 --> 00:12:40.690
want to scan here You can learn more about all

00:12:40.690 --> 00:12:42.870
of those those three levels there what's required

00:12:42.870 --> 00:12:45.649
for the letter of intents What are the dates

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in addition you can see our email there? I'm

00:12:48.809 --> 00:12:50.769
sure I can drop that in the chapter. You can't

00:12:50.769 --> 00:12:53.639
if you don't catch it But we are here and available

00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:56.019
for you. We are really excited that we have these

00:12:56.019 --> 00:12:58.179
opportunities. We want you to ask your questions.

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We want you to reach out to us because we're

00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.779
here. We want as many folks to apply and be successful

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as possible. So if anyone has any questions,

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I'm going to stop here. I know I have like a

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minute or so for any questions. And if you don't

00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:13.960
have questions and you don't want to ask them

00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:15.039
out loud, you can put them in the chat. I'll

00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:17.580
be here for the whole meeting. And then as well

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as our program manager for our community engagement,

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Michael Guestme. He is up here as well. And so

00:13:23.500 --> 00:13:25.659
any questions that I cannot answer, I'm sure

00:13:25.659 --> 00:13:29.240
he can as well. So Dr. Sutton, you know, I always

00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:31.340
have like tons of questions just rolling around

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up in here. Hopefully this will come out coherently.

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Can you give us some examples of projects that

00:13:38.620 --> 00:13:42.200
fall into the seed or cultivate or harvest bucket

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just so people can just start thinking about

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programs? So I'm going to say now cultivate to

00:13:47.779 --> 00:13:49.100
be different because it's our first year doing

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this. That's right. I'm sorry. See grants though.

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If you're looking, you're like my organization

00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:56.279
is interested in creating materials to start

00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:58.700
to engage our like, let's say a church. I want

00:13:58.700 --> 00:14:00.240
to be able to engage my church in information

00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:04.100
about colonoscopies or colorectal cancer. And

00:14:04.100 --> 00:14:06.600
we want to create some materials along with some

00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:08.980
individuals. We want to maybe do some surveys

00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:11.139
of the congregation to understand what screening

00:14:11.139 --> 00:14:14.600
looks like, what are some of the barriers. It

00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.360
may even be we want to have some individuals

00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.019
come to our church to talk about, like to do

00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:24.240
some education. So it's really like that foundational

00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.559
level. I think we have a there, there. We want

00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.259
to see what it looks like. And I will tell you

00:14:29.259 --> 00:14:31.299
this also, Rudine, on the website, we have some

00:14:31.299 --> 00:14:34.340
of our prior awardees, I believe, so folks can

00:14:34.340 --> 00:14:36.139
kind of get a glimpse of that. Because we have

00:14:36.139 --> 00:14:38.480
anywhere from, like I said, we have faith -based

00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:41.940
organizations. We've had one of our favorite

00:14:41.940 --> 00:14:45.139
organizations, Community Transformers Foundation.

00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:47.899
We've had the Palitan Free Clinic. So we had

00:14:47.899 --> 00:14:50.320
a myriad of organizations. Now, Harvest, we've

00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.440
just awarded our first Harvest grant this past

00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:54.679
year. and that was actually the free clinic of

00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:57.740
Powhatan. And their focus on nutrition, like

00:14:57.740 --> 00:15:00.179
healthy eating. And so they have built within

00:15:00.179 --> 00:15:02.759
their infrastructure an opportunity to focus

00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:05.000
on, one, providing individuals with healthy eating,

00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.559
but doing trainings, having nutritionists come

00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:09.899
out, and they do assessments of individuals to

00:15:09.899 --> 00:15:11.659
understand what some of the barriers to healthy

00:15:11.659 --> 00:15:14.620
eating are, all within a lens of cancer prevention.

00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:16.700
And so that's the part that's really important

00:15:16.700 --> 00:15:19.409
about these grants. we really need them to be

00:15:19.409 --> 00:15:21.490
focused on, like I said at the very beginning,

00:15:21.629 --> 00:15:25.870
within that spectrum of cancer. Very helpful.

00:15:26.210 --> 00:15:28.549
So I recommend that people take a look at the

00:15:28.549 --> 00:15:33.690
past programs and could they like reach out to

00:15:33.690 --> 00:15:36.730
some of those past recipients as well or is that

00:15:36.730 --> 00:15:39.730
sort of like I mean, I can't, I can't say yes

00:15:39.730 --> 00:15:44.970
for them. But I would suggest if you have a contact

00:15:44.970 --> 00:15:48.769
at any of the past recipients that you just text

00:15:48.769 --> 00:15:52.190
or whatever social media thing you do to figure

00:15:52.190 --> 00:15:54.750
out what was their secret sauce. How did they

00:15:54.750 --> 00:15:57.350
come up with the program? But this is not what

00:15:57.350 --> 00:15:59.389
VCU Massey says. Cause the things that I say,

00:15:59.690 --> 00:16:03.029
we cannot impute. to these folks. I mean, they're

00:16:03.029 --> 00:16:05.250
like great partners here across rich and not

00:16:05.250 --> 00:16:07.129
just with Massey with other organizations. And

00:16:07.129 --> 00:16:09.429
so I could go as far as to say, I'm sure they

00:16:09.429 --> 00:16:11.409
would be happy to share like what they what they're

00:16:11.409 --> 00:16:13.809
doing and you know how they went about it. Okay,

00:16:13.970 --> 00:16:17.610
cool. Cool. And take advantage of the workshops.

00:16:17.649 --> 00:16:20.169
I think those that will make this all scary,

00:16:20.169 --> 00:16:24.090
right? Absolutely. Yes. Awesome. Well, thank

00:16:24.090 --> 00:16:26.090
you so much. Does anybody else have any questions

00:16:26.090 --> 00:16:30.049
for Dr. Sutton? because I'm actually ahead of

00:16:30.049 --> 00:16:33.309
time right now, which that never happens. All

00:16:33.309 --> 00:16:34.789
right, if you have questions, please feel free

00:16:34.789 --> 00:16:37.690
to directly reach out to her or Michael Guesme,

00:16:37.730 --> 00:16:41.549
who's also on the call, or just pop it in that

00:16:41.549 --> 00:16:44.350
everyone can see chat and we're happy to address

00:16:44.350 --> 00:16:49.990
them. Thank you. OK. Now we are going to talk

00:16:49.990 --> 00:16:54.149
about, again, a subject that people may or may

00:16:54.149 --> 00:16:57.009
not be comfortable discussing, but it's something

00:16:57.259 --> 00:17:00.120
We have to do hard things, right? That's just

00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.220
what we do as humans. But before we start having

00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:08.579
that conversation that's facilitated by Dr. Brown,

00:17:08.900 --> 00:17:11.180
with Dr. Brown, I'm going to do that like two

00:17:11.180 --> 00:17:12.680
or three more times during the course of this

00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:15.740
conversation. I get a chance to introduce to

00:17:15.740 --> 00:17:19.569
you... Dr. Shenita Brown. She's a speaker, board

00:17:19.569 --> 00:17:22.509
certified licensed clinical mental health counselor

00:17:22.509 --> 00:17:25.630
and educator that believes in fostering transformative

00:17:25.630 --> 00:17:28.930
and empowering dialogue about intimate partner

00:17:28.930 --> 00:17:32.109
violence, black women and mental health wellness.

00:17:32.869 --> 00:17:34.990
With over 15 years of experience in the clinical,

00:17:36.890 --> 00:17:38.890
sometimes I struggle with reading. So let me

00:17:38.890 --> 00:17:42.160
just slow down. With over 15 years of experience

00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.180
in the clinical mental health field, Dr. Brown

00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:47.700
is carving out an important dimension within

00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:50.420
counselor education, the black community and

00:17:50.420 --> 00:17:53.960
counseling profession by intersecting black women,

00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:58.299
domestic violence, spirituality and mental health.

00:17:58.819 --> 00:18:02.259
She is passionate to break the silence and empower

00:18:02.259 --> 00:18:05.180
change through education, empowerment and clinical

00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:08.799
services. She is a sought -out expert in mental

00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:11.619
health wellness, domestic violence, and Black

00:18:11.619 --> 00:18:14.680
women. She's a servant leader dedicated to disseminating

00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:17.859
her work in a variety of ways to increase awareness

00:18:17.859 --> 00:18:21.180
and influence the next generation of advocates

00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:24.660
and leaders. Dr. Brown's extensive service includes

00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:27.220
work with the North Carolina Domestic Violence

00:18:27.220 --> 00:18:29.779
Commission Task Force, and most recently she

00:18:29.779 --> 00:18:31.980
served on the Board of Directors for the North

00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:35.259
Carolina Coalition Against Sexual Assault and

00:18:35.259 --> 00:18:38.099
National Board for Certified Counselors Minority

00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:41.900
Fellowship Advisory Council. Dr. Brown has traveled

00:18:41.900 --> 00:18:44.119
throughout the country providing educational

00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.200
workshops and presentations to diverse audiences,

00:18:47.619 --> 00:18:50.279
including mental health professionals, collegiate

00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:52.779
campuses. I'm glad that you're going to collegiate

00:18:52.779 --> 00:18:54.839
campuses. That definitely needs to be spoken

00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:58.960
about there. Advocates, faith leaders, and professional

00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:02.220
athletic organizations. Again, another place

00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:06.140
where this needs to be amplified. She's received

00:19:06.140 --> 00:19:09.039
numerous awards. I could have taken up like eight

00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:12.940
minutes talking about all of her awards, but

00:19:12.940 --> 00:19:16.279
most recently she received the 2021 Jane E. Myers

00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:19.140
Counseling and Wellness Award by the North Carolina

00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:23.440
Counseling Association. So, Dr. Brown, I know

00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.240
that was woefully inadequate. trying to describe

00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:29.799
all that you are and all that you've been doing

00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:32.359
for our community. But again, we're so excited

00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:36.039
to have you here. And Dr. Jessica Brown, you

00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.380
get no introduction because everybody knows that

00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:41.519
you are the facts and faith resident, everything.

00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:46.769
So with that, Dr. Brown, take it over. Dr. Brown,

00:19:46.869 --> 00:19:49.930
do you want me to start sharing your slides now?

00:19:49.950 --> 00:19:51.250
Or you want to let me know? Yes, because that

00:19:51.250 --> 00:19:52.910
goes with the first question. Yes, absolutely.

00:19:52.930 --> 00:19:54.950
OK, sounds great. So folks, what we're going

00:19:54.950 --> 00:19:58.450
to do, I'm just going to ask Dr. Brown some questions.

00:19:59.210 --> 00:20:02.190
And then we'll have opportunity for Q &A, but

00:20:02.190 --> 00:20:04.150
you're welcome to put questions in the chat as

00:20:04.150 --> 00:20:08.569
we're talking as well. So these are Dr. Brown's

00:20:08.569 --> 00:20:14.190
slides. Yes. OK, so just in case folks don't

00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:18.380
know, October is domestic violence awareness

00:20:18.380 --> 00:20:20.319
month, which is one of the reasons why we wanted

00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.599
to have you come. And, you know, people have

00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:25.400
heard the terms domestic violence or intimate

00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:28.680
partner violence, but as an expert, can you just

00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:32.160
kind of level set and let us know, how do you

00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:34.859
define domestic violence? Like, what are the

00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:37.299
things that need to be happening in a relationship

00:20:37.299 --> 00:20:40.019
in order for us to determine that this is a domestic

00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:43.380
violence situation? Thank you, Dr. Brown. I would

00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:45.380
just say before I get started, thank you for

00:20:45.380 --> 00:20:48.420
the opportunity. It's definitely a pleasure to

00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:51.740
be here. I am not, I will just say I am not a

00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:54.619
minister or a theologian, but I bring you my

00:20:54.619 --> 00:20:57.759
expertise as a survivor, as a woman of faith,

00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:00.240
as a researcher who has conducted this research

00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.019
on looking at the role of spirituality, the role

00:21:03.019 --> 00:21:04.880
of religious beliefs, the role of Black church,

00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.140
the role of pastors. in helping black women survivors

00:21:08.140 --> 00:21:11.900
get free from domestic violence. And so how I

00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:14.819
define domestic violence, and we have this infographic

00:21:14.819 --> 00:21:19.000
here, because this infographic is one of the

00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.740
ways that many survivors began to identify domestic

00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:27.099
violence. And the umbrella term is intimate partner

00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:29.880
violence or gender -based violence. And what

00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.420
that means is that domestic violence is a type

00:21:32.750 --> 00:21:36.369
of intimate partner violence in which one partner

00:21:36.369 --> 00:21:41.190
tries to maintain or gain power and control over

00:21:41.190 --> 00:21:46.029
another partner. And so no one comes into counseling

00:21:46.029 --> 00:21:49.309
or in conversation. I'm in an abusive relationship.

00:21:49.750 --> 00:21:52.859
There's so much shame. and stigma attached to

00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:55.900
it, especially in the faith community. And so

00:21:55.900 --> 00:21:58.599
what this looks like, this will shows you that

00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:03.759
at the core of it is power and control. And outside

00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:06.259
of it, you see what that looks like. It can show

00:22:06.259 --> 00:22:09.589
up in emotion abuse. in spiritual abuse, it can

00:22:09.589 --> 00:22:12.970
show up as physical abuse, it can show up as

00:22:12.970 --> 00:22:18.130
financial abuse, right? And so isolation, using

00:22:18.130 --> 00:22:21.789
children, intimidation, and it is a pattern.

00:22:22.109 --> 00:22:26.490
And it doesn't start out initially in the relationship.

00:22:26.829 --> 00:22:30.289
It gradually takes place and it continues to

00:22:30.289 --> 00:22:34.390
build into the point where a survivor no longer

00:22:34.390 --> 00:22:38.049
recognizes that they're in this situation. They

00:22:38.049 --> 00:22:41.150
tend to detach from themselves and they engage

00:22:41.150 --> 00:22:44.970
in a variety of survival techniques to stay in

00:22:44.970 --> 00:22:47.910
this relationship until the light bulb goes off

00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:50.970
that I no longer want this and it doesn't align

00:22:50.970 --> 00:22:55.339
with me. So you talked about it being a gradual

00:22:55.339 --> 00:22:58.019
process. And I'm thinking about, we've got faith

00:22:58.019 --> 00:23:00.319
leaders on the call, but we've also got people

00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:02.039
who are embedded in relationship on the call,

00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:05.740
right? And so I'm wondering about two aspects

00:23:05.740 --> 00:23:09.519
of this process that you talked about. And so

00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:11.680
I'm gonna ask you what, you know, we're told

00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:13.339
not to ask, which is I'm gonna ask a double barrel

00:23:13.339 --> 00:23:17.019
question, right? So on the one hand, if I'm in

00:23:17.019 --> 00:23:20.660
a relationship, What might be some signs for

00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:24.359
me that there might be some violence, power and

00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.259
control issues going on in the relationship?

00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.019
And then the flip side of that, if I'm a clergy

00:23:30.019 --> 00:23:32.880
leader just kind of in the course of navigating

00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.400
relationships in my congregation, what might

00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:38.200
be some signs for me that there's domestic violence

00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:41.180
going on in a relationship? How do we know this

00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:43.539
is happening like from the outside and from the

00:23:43.539 --> 00:23:47.680
inside? So I will say, Jessica, thanks for asking

00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:49.400
that question, because there's always a survivor

00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:54.619
in the room. There's a survivor in this, during

00:23:54.619 --> 00:23:57.039
our time together, because one in four women

00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.680
will experience some form of domestic violence.

00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:03.140
So you say one in four, do the math for me. Absolutely.

00:24:04.059 --> 00:24:06.740
Do the math of how many survivors are in this

00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:09.380
conversation and how many have experienced it.

00:24:09.819 --> 00:24:12.640
But what it looks like is, I feel like I'm walking

00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.740
on eggshells. I would say that as a survivor,

00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.599
there were times that I felt like I was walking

00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:23.200
on eggshells where I was afraid of doing things,

00:24:23.380 --> 00:24:28.099
the gradual manipulation, the name calling, intimidation,

00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:31.859
isolating me from my family and friends. And

00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:34.500
I'm going to say me because after my book was

00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:37.130
released, I had family members. you know, share

00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:39.109
with me that there were times that we could not

00:24:39.109 --> 00:24:42.650
reach you or you were very isolated. My line

00:24:42.650 --> 00:24:45.210
sisters shared times that I was isolated and

00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:47.190
I experienced domestic violence or relationship

00:24:47.190 --> 00:24:49.710
violence in my undergrad years. And I had no

00:24:49.710 --> 00:24:53.190
idea. So there are times that we are isolated,

00:24:54.670 --> 00:24:56.789
that an abuser would say, you can't do this,

00:24:56.869 --> 00:25:02.539
you can't go to church. If you notice some physical

00:25:02.539 --> 00:25:05.740
changes or changes in families or appearances,

00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.180
or when they're with their family and they're

00:25:08.180 --> 00:25:10.980
always looking at their husband or wife before

00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:14.019
they respond to something, that is a red flag

00:25:14.019 --> 00:25:17.480
that something is going on. Because the opposite

00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:20.519
of power and control is equality, right? And

00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:24.460
so at some point in equality, then there's trust.

00:25:25.179 --> 00:25:29.059
There's no fairness. There is negotiation. And

00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:31.779
so I'm not saying that you can't respect or saying

00:25:31.779 --> 00:25:33.619
that I want to check up my husband. I want to

00:25:33.619 --> 00:25:36.740
check with my wife before answering if I'm asked

00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:39.359
to serve in a ministry, right? I'm not saying

00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:41.960
that. But if you are standing in front of a faith

00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:44.700
leader or elder in the conversation, and every

00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:46.880
few five minutes you're looking at, I need to

00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:50.529
ask if I can speak. That is a red flag. If you

00:25:50.529 --> 00:25:52.809
can't even complete a sentence without looking,

00:25:52.970 --> 00:25:55.670
can I answer this? Like, yeah, you can. That

00:25:55.670 --> 00:26:01.910
is a red flag. Unexplained injuries, right? Or

00:26:01.910 --> 00:26:03.509
if it's the summertime and you see them wearing

00:26:03.509 --> 00:26:08.670
a scarf. Those are some indicators that there

00:26:08.670 --> 00:26:12.609
is some abusive behavior going on. Financial

00:26:12.609 --> 00:26:15.170
abuse. We don't talk enough about financial abuse

00:26:15.170 --> 00:26:17.930
where survivors will work and they don't have

00:26:17.930 --> 00:26:21.329
access to their money. If you want to go to or

00:26:21.329 --> 00:26:25.230
if there's an event, again, you know, I've worked

00:26:25.230 --> 00:26:27.730
with many survivors and I still have a caseload

00:26:27.730 --> 00:26:30.890
working with survivors. And they share sometimes

00:26:30.890 --> 00:26:32.769
that I want to do things with my church, with

00:26:32.769 --> 00:26:35.490
my ministry, but I couldn't do that. And now

00:26:35.490 --> 00:26:38.130
that I'm out the relationship that I can sign

00:26:38.130 --> 00:26:40.569
up for a women's conference without checking

00:26:40.569 --> 00:26:43.970
or having an allowance for the hard money that

00:26:43.970 --> 00:26:46.930
I have earned. And you're telling me I only get

00:26:46.930 --> 00:26:52.299
$250 for expenses or for things. She burst into

00:26:52.299 --> 00:26:54.539
tears. She said, I don't have to ask him anymore.

00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.519
That's what liberation and freedom feels like.

00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:59.799
So when you begin to notice some of these things

00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:06.420
and also this concept of submission and forgiveness

00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:10.380
and reconciliation, I mean, there is so much

00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:13.660
when it comes to power and control and what that

00:27:13.660 --> 00:27:15.559
looks like. And so I'm going to ask you, Jessica,

00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:21.589
to go to the next infographic. Okay, so in the

00:27:21.589 --> 00:27:25.170
context of spiritual abuse, this is a spiritual

00:27:25.170 --> 00:27:29.930
and religious power and control will, okay? If

00:27:29.930 --> 00:27:31.990
you want these slides, we can definitely make

00:27:31.990 --> 00:27:34.910
sure that you get them. And so what happened

00:27:34.910 --> 00:27:37.789
is that spiritual abuse is when one partner,

00:27:37.789 --> 00:27:42.230
again, tries to gain or maintain power and control

00:27:42.230 --> 00:27:45.490
over another partner, and they do that in the

00:27:45.490 --> 00:27:50.160
form of spiritual and religious abuse. They utilize

00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.980
and misinterpret scriptures to maintain or gain

00:27:53.980 --> 00:27:58.579
power and control over their partner. You cannot

00:27:58.579 --> 00:28:01.539
go to a Bible study tonight. I had a research

00:28:01.539 --> 00:28:04.539
participant who told me that I couldn't serve

00:28:04.539 --> 00:28:08.660
my particular faith because my husband did not

00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:12.700
agree with it. So as a result, isolation. She

00:28:12.700 --> 00:28:19.579
lost her community. It's also when the leader

00:28:19.579 --> 00:28:23.779
also misinterprets the scriptures to maintain

00:28:23.779 --> 00:28:29.400
power and control over a congregation. So you

00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:31.680
know that's where I was headed, right? Because

00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.619
I know you know me, you know we were going there.

00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.140
So I know that you've done research in this area

00:28:39.140 --> 00:28:42.740
and part of what I'm hoping. we can kind of tease

00:28:42.740 --> 00:28:44.880
apart, you know, for many of us as a part of

00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.400
our religious tradition, y 'all know that little

00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:49.480
umbrella picture that people send around social

00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:52.960
media every once in a while, you know, God is

00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:55.660
the umbrella and then the husband is the leader

00:28:55.660 --> 00:28:57.720
of the home, right? And so, you know, there are

00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:00.099
lots of different ways that can play out, but

00:29:00.099 --> 00:29:06.519
can you talk about maybe how some of these more,

00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:11.920
you know, complimentarian theological ideas where

00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:14.720
they're really clearly defined gender roles and

00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:18.220
one partner is kind of in control. Can you talk

00:29:18.220 --> 00:29:22.819
about how we kind of manage or tease those things

00:29:22.819 --> 00:29:25.819
apart when it comes to attending to domestic

00:29:25.819 --> 00:29:29.400
violence in church life? Like, what would you

00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:32.539
suggest in terms of how clergy leaders respond?

00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:38.059
I think it's important to just for one, believe

00:29:38.059 --> 00:29:41.940
survivors. and hold abusers accountable. And

00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:45.920
use scriptures as a form of empowerment, right?

00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:50.900
Don't feel so afraid that you can't say to someone

00:29:50.900 --> 00:29:54.599
that it's okay to leave, right? And I created

00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.480
a workshop out of this research called Engage

00:29:57.480 --> 00:29:59.700
in a Faith Community Response to Domestic Violence.

00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:02.559
And I've had faith leaders who say, Dr. Brown,

00:30:02.779 --> 00:30:06.779
well, I was pulled to the side because I counseled

00:30:06.779 --> 00:30:09.880
someone to leave this abusive relationship. So

00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:12.980
there's a whole community of faith leaders in

00:30:12.980 --> 00:30:17.400
general when you think about systemically and

00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:20.380
in patriarchal views and gender roles is that

00:30:20.380 --> 00:30:25.470
you have to submit because of God's because the

00:30:25.470 --> 00:30:28.009
biblical teaching on submission, again, I'm not

00:30:28.009 --> 00:30:29.910
a minister of theologian, but what I know is

00:30:29.910 --> 00:30:32.349
that it's the scriptures that are used to keep

00:30:32.349 --> 00:30:35.789
women and survivors in bondage. And so what we

00:30:35.789 --> 00:30:37.890
can do, what would be helpful to use scriptures

00:30:37.890 --> 00:30:41.549
as a form of empowerment and help them to see

00:30:41.549 --> 00:30:43.849
that abuse and the way you are being treated

00:30:43.849 --> 00:30:46.490
does not align with God. That's what survivors

00:30:46.490 --> 00:30:49.490
want to hear. They are trusting their faith leader.

00:30:49.569 --> 00:30:51.609
They're not coming to you a counselor first.

00:30:51.890 --> 00:30:54.269
They're going to a faith leader because I believe

00:30:54.269 --> 00:30:57.109
in, I have my relationship with Christ and I

00:30:57.109 --> 00:30:59.390
believe that somebody in the church can help

00:30:59.390 --> 00:31:02.309
me kind of see and guide me on what I'm doing.

00:31:02.569 --> 00:31:05.769
And a lot of times survivors and my clients are

00:31:05.769 --> 00:31:08.650
re -victimized because they are told that you

00:31:08.650 --> 00:31:12.970
need to submit more. And this concept of submission

00:31:12.970 --> 00:31:17.400
as a form of faithfulness has to change. Because

00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:20.599
what's happening, women and families are continuing.

00:31:20.599 --> 00:31:25.039
They are trapped in abusive relationships. Or

00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:28.259
this idea of endurance of suffering. Okay, I'm

00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:30.880
going to endure this. You know, I'm going to

00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:32.539
get through this because this is what God wants

00:31:32.539 --> 00:31:35.140
me to do. We as leaders, you have to be able

00:31:35.140 --> 00:31:37.740
to help people to break this down. This is not

00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:40.359
what the scripture meant. That's why faith leaders

00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:42.859
have such an important role when it comes to

00:31:42.859 --> 00:31:44.799
helping people get free from domestic violence.

00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.160
Right? It's your job. You have a role to help

00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:51.119
people to break down the scripture, to help them

00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.359
to see that this doesn't align with God as the

00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:56.960
head, the husband that's next, then the wife

00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:59.500
and submission. Like, well, I am submitting to

00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:01.640
further abuse. That's what a research participant

00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:04.579
told me. So I went to a pastor. They told me

00:32:04.579 --> 00:32:10.970
to pray and stay and to submit more. And at the

00:32:10.970 --> 00:32:13.109
while she said, well, I'm submitting to more

00:32:13.109 --> 00:32:15.789
violence. That's basically keep submitting to

00:32:15.789 --> 00:32:19.150
this marriage and this abuse. And I had to keep

00:32:19.150 --> 00:32:20.890
submitting to that because that's what the scripture

00:32:20.890 --> 00:32:23.549
said, submit to your husband. So it's like you're

00:32:23.549 --> 00:32:27.509
picking and choosing the scriptures for survivors,

00:32:27.769 --> 00:32:30.430
but there aren't any scriptures being told like,

00:32:30.430 --> 00:32:32.849
you know, let's talk about this. How can you

00:32:32.849 --> 00:32:35.650
get out? How can you get free? Like where in

00:32:35.650 --> 00:32:39.619
the Bible does it show or say, This aligns with

00:32:39.619 --> 00:32:41.640
God. So we need the faith leaders to say, break

00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:45.059
this down. This isn't it. That's what people

00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:47.500
are looking for. They're looking for a faith

00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:50.519
leader, a pastor, a deaconess, a trustee, somebody

00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:53.339
in the church that trusts to say, I hear you,

00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:56.619
I believe you. This is not right. You do not

00:32:56.619 --> 00:33:00.079
deserve this. Yeah. And part of what I'm thinking

00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.200
too, as you're talking is both building awareness,

00:33:05.470 --> 00:33:09.009
and the discernment process as clergy leaders.

00:33:09.190 --> 00:33:11.069
Because I'm thinking about folks I've worked

00:33:11.069 --> 00:33:12.789
with in my clinical practice who may have been

00:33:12.789 --> 00:33:15.569
dealing with intimate partner violence. After

00:33:15.569 --> 00:33:18.930
a while, as you said, people might begin sort

00:33:18.930 --> 00:33:21.269
of hiding all the things that are happening at

00:33:21.269 --> 00:33:24.589
home. And so part of our responsibility as leaders

00:33:24.589 --> 00:33:28.029
might be asking those questions. Do you feel

00:33:28.029 --> 00:33:31.869
like you're in physical danger? Feel like you're

00:33:31.869 --> 00:33:36.680
walking on eggshells, right? taking that extra

00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:41.420
step to really check in on some of those relational

00:33:41.420 --> 00:33:44.680
dynamics that might be happening, but maybe people

00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:47.539
aren't aware of or don't feel comfortable talking

00:33:47.539 --> 00:33:50.019
about. Because you're right, when we make these

00:33:50.019 --> 00:33:54.220
blanket statements, while pray for your marriage

00:33:54.220 --> 00:33:57.380
and continue to offer forgiveness to your spouse

00:33:57.380 --> 00:34:00.019
might be helpful and appropriate in some situations,

00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:04.529
if it's an abuse situation, we are inviting people

00:34:04.529 --> 00:34:06.829
to sign up for more harm, right? And so really

00:34:06.829 --> 00:34:09.250
understanding the nuance there sounds really

00:34:09.250 --> 00:34:13.710
important. Another religious belief is that divorce

00:34:13.710 --> 00:34:18.429
or separation is sin. Mm hmm. God hates divorce.

00:34:19.409 --> 00:34:21.710
All seven participants were told God hates divorce.

00:34:22.610 --> 00:34:25.570
So what do they do? They stay a little bit longer.

00:34:27.220 --> 00:34:30.539
Or one of the recent participants said that she

00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:34.079
was told Moses wrote the law on marriage. So

00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:37.719
as a result, she couldn't leave. She endured

00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:40.199
because Moses wrote the law on marriage. That's

00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:44.239
what she was told. And she needed to endure this

00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:51.719
as a form of faithfulness to her marriage. So

00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:56.440
it sounds like a crucial piece. for leaders is

00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:59.980
really identifying this could be a situation

00:34:59.980 --> 00:35:02.380
where abuse is happening, right? It can be deadly.

00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:06.159
It can be deadly. Abusers will show up at churches.

00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.800
They will show up to a survivor's job, their

00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:12.300
family. It is very dangerous. And so the awareness

00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:16.039
is important. The language that you use, survivor

00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:19.340
-centered, trauma -informed, but also the training

00:35:19.340 --> 00:35:24.710
of leaders is paramount to this. So what would

00:35:24.710 --> 00:35:29.269
you suggest if a church really wants to, besides

00:35:29.269 --> 00:35:30.929
by Dr. Brown's book, which we're gonna talk about

00:35:30.929 --> 00:35:33.610
in a little bit, right? If a church really wants

00:35:33.610 --> 00:35:38.150
to educate and equip the ministry for responding

00:35:38.150 --> 00:35:41.409
to domestic violence, what are some steps that

00:35:41.409 --> 00:35:46.329
you would suggest a church takes? Well, for one,

00:35:47.150 --> 00:35:49.570
partnering with a local domestic violence agency.

00:35:52.630 --> 00:35:56.050
and have some sort of awareness program. If you

00:35:56.050 --> 00:35:59.389
have ministries, not every church has the ministry

00:35:59.389 --> 00:36:02.969
to support something for domestic violence, but

00:36:02.969 --> 00:36:06.309
at the very least, partner with community partners

00:36:06.309 --> 00:36:09.210
in training your leaders is important. And the

00:36:09.210 --> 00:36:11.170
next step would be creating some sort of domestic

00:36:11.170 --> 00:36:14.050
violence policy to hold offenders accountable.

00:36:14.309 --> 00:36:16.489
That's the missing key. Like you have to hold

00:36:16.489 --> 00:36:19.309
them accountable. So what would you say that

00:36:19.309 --> 00:36:30.329
looks like? Well, I will say I grew up in the

00:36:30.329 --> 00:36:34.150
United Holy Church in holiness. And so I'm going

00:36:34.150 --> 00:36:36.869
to leave with that. That's my upbringing. And

00:36:36.869 --> 00:36:38.929
I heard a lot of times that my grandma would

00:36:38.929 --> 00:36:40.869
say, well, you just need to sit people down.

00:36:41.090 --> 00:36:44.920
You need to sit them down. And so That would

00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:48.099
be my, you have to pull them from the work that

00:36:48.099 --> 00:36:51.019
they're doing because you're showing the families

00:36:51.019 --> 00:36:56.420
that their behavior is okay. So one of my research

00:36:56.420 --> 00:36:59.480
participants was re -victimized and she was abused

00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:04.340
by one of the church musicians, right? And so

00:37:04.340 --> 00:37:06.780
she said, I stopped going to church because every

00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:12.199
Sunday I had to look at him playing for God in

00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:16.699
the church and they did nothing. So basically

00:37:16.699 --> 00:37:18.820
the message was we're okay with his behavior

00:37:18.820 --> 00:37:21.440
after she shared with somebody what's happening

00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:27.699
to her Yeah Like have some apologies something

00:37:27.699 --> 00:37:32.059
in place Training education classes for them

00:37:32.059 --> 00:37:35.280
to understand their behavior Have something set

00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:37.860
up for vendors for offenders and abusers to let

00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:40.960
them know that we do not tolerate this It is

00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.300
not okay to abuse your wife and your family and

00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:47.840
continue to serve. Like you have to take some

00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:55.179
time away to address your behavior. That's what

00:37:55.179 --> 00:37:56.920
I was saying. There's another slide we can go

00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:04.909
to. I wanna talk about the cycle of abuse. Okay,

00:38:04.989 --> 00:38:06.469
I know you mentioned the church, but I don't

00:38:06.469 --> 00:38:08.429
want to forget this important concept and it's

00:38:08.429 --> 00:38:11.409
in the book, but I wanted to show the infographic

00:38:11.409 --> 00:38:14.250
for people to understand why it's so hard for

00:38:14.250 --> 00:38:17.869
survivors to leave because it is a cycle. As

00:38:17.869 --> 00:38:21.489
I said earlier that abusers don't show up as

00:38:21.489 --> 00:38:23.789
abusive in their early stage of relationship.

00:38:23.989 --> 00:38:27.800
It's the honeymoon phase. Right. Everything is

00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:30.400
all peachy king and you know, we're going on

00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:32.940
trips and we just love each other We just love

00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:36.320
each other and then things begin to take a turn

00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:38.579
and I feel like I'm walking on eggshells is when

00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:42.860
they're in the tension phase the jealousy the

00:38:42.860 --> 00:38:48.079
insults threats the mood changes emotional distance

00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:51.880
and Then after that you may have an explosive

00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:56.610
episode physical abuse And then the cycle continues.

00:38:57.969 --> 00:39:01.449
It continues, it continues, it continues until

00:39:01.449 --> 00:39:06.550
a person decides that I want to leave. And it

00:39:06.550 --> 00:39:10.389
takes seven attempts for a survivor to successfully

00:39:10.389 --> 00:39:13.030
leave. That means that they have tried seven

00:39:13.030 --> 00:39:17.090
times. I think for me, it was one, two, three.

00:39:19.050 --> 00:39:20.650
Then I said, I'm going to leave. Next thing I

00:39:20.650 --> 00:39:25.869
found myself back in the cycle. So keep that

00:39:25.869 --> 00:39:29.590
in mind when we are having conversations. I would

00:39:29.590 --> 00:39:31.829
have been left. No, you can't say that unless

00:39:31.829 --> 00:39:36.050
you have experienced this cycle of abuse. They

00:39:36.050 --> 00:39:38.250
just need to leave. I take my kids and go, no,

00:39:38.250 --> 00:39:43.150
it's very dangerous to leave. It is deadly. That's

00:39:43.150 --> 00:39:45.670
the one of the most dangerous time for a survivor

00:39:45.670 --> 00:39:49.269
is when she is trying to get out an abusive situation

00:39:49.269 --> 00:39:53.690
because the abuser begins to recognize I want

00:39:53.690 --> 00:40:01.389
my power back. And all of those tactics begin

00:40:01.389 --> 00:40:04.789
to, they are intensified and they begin to increase.

00:40:05.849 --> 00:40:08.650
So if they want you dead, they say, nobody else

00:40:08.650 --> 00:40:10.969
is going to have you. They will kill the survivor,

00:40:11.210 --> 00:40:13.690
sometimes the family, and sometimes themselves.

00:40:16.050 --> 00:40:19.730
Just because survivors trying to get out. They

00:40:19.730 --> 00:40:21.550
want to maintain power and control. They want

00:40:21.550 --> 00:40:25.260
to make sure that no one else has this so -called

00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:27.880
power and control. You belong to me, like the

00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:30.380
woman is an object, the family is an object.

00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:33.539
So it's a hard conversation, but this is the

00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:36.780
reality of domestic violence. It is a cycle of

00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:41.500
abuse that goes on for many years. It goes on

00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:43.860
for many years. Yes, you have a question. So

00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:46.239
you hit on the thing that I think is really important

00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:48.500
to name, which is like from the outside looking

00:40:48.500 --> 00:40:50.920
in, it may seem like, oh, I would just leave,

00:40:51.300 --> 00:40:53.639
but the relational dynamics are a lot more complicated

00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:57.860
and really unsafe. Yeah. So if I'm trying to

00:40:57.860 --> 00:41:01.000
support somebody who I see is in the cycle of

00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:04.480
abuse, but they're not at a position where they

00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:08.420
can safely leave, what should support look like

00:41:08.420 --> 00:41:12.800
in that period? Support should look like, Jessica,

00:41:13.219 --> 00:41:16.440
I love you, girl. I see something going on. I'm

00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:19.800
happy to take your kids or, you know, let's go

00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:23.980
for a movie. You know, I want something different

00:41:23.980 --> 00:41:25.900
from you. I'm going to support you. Ultimately,

00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:28.679
you make the decision, right? Because survivors

00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:32.460
are already in a controlling situation. So they

00:41:32.460 --> 00:41:34.179
don't need someone saying, you just need to leave.

00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:36.239
You just need to get out of this. It isn't that

00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:38.679
simple. They're trying to find their voice. They

00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:40.980
already don't have one. So the last thing they

00:41:40.980 --> 00:41:43.099
need is a family member, a friend saying what

00:41:43.099 --> 00:41:46.139
you need to do. How about you support my decision?

00:41:46.179 --> 00:41:48.840
And when I'm ready, I'm ready. And be OK with

00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:51.460
them not ready to leave. They may not be ready

00:41:51.460 --> 00:41:54.639
to leave. And you also have to take care of yourself

00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:57.920
while helping someone in an abusive situation.

00:41:58.219 --> 00:42:01.019
It can be very dangerous. So you have to limit.

00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:05.639
your what you share or how involved you want

00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:09.519
to get because I'm just recently a couple of

00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:12.659
months ago a student at North Carolina Central

00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:19.860
was killed Because She was trying to leave an

00:42:19.860 --> 00:42:23.679
abusive relationship He killed himself and he

00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:27.199
shot at her girlfriend and he missed her Her

00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:29.059
girlfriend was at her apartment trying to help

00:42:29.059 --> 00:42:31.469
trying to get her stuff out He killed her, killed

00:42:31.469 --> 00:42:33.489
himself, but he shot at her girlfriend. That's

00:42:33.489 --> 00:42:36.110
how dangerous it is. So you have to determine

00:42:36.110 --> 00:42:38.670
and know that domestic violence is very complex.

00:42:39.250 --> 00:42:42.510
If I have someone in this situation, I'm gonna

00:42:42.510 --> 00:42:44.710
do what I'm having some boundaries, protecting

00:42:44.710 --> 00:42:47.989
your peace, learn that it can be like up and

00:42:47.989 --> 00:42:50.289
down for you. Your anxiety levels may increase.

00:42:50.829 --> 00:42:52.789
You may feel like you walking on eggshells as

00:42:52.789 --> 00:42:57.630
well. Just being on pins and needles, because

00:42:57.630 --> 00:43:00.869
she's not ready to leave. Or there's a conversation

00:43:00.869 --> 00:43:04.309
or he came to her job or she tells her I'm with

00:43:04.309 --> 00:43:08.170
Jessica. Like what does that mean for me? So

00:43:08.170 --> 00:43:10.349
you have to have your limitations and know how

00:43:10.349 --> 00:43:12.750
to support and the book talks about that, you

00:43:12.750 --> 00:43:16.650
know Supported survivors and looking for people

00:43:16.650 --> 00:43:18.750
who are non -judgmental people who are caring

00:43:18.750 --> 00:43:20.969
and things of that nature would be helpful But

00:43:20.969 --> 00:43:24.010
it can be very dangerous. I will not lie to you

00:43:24.010 --> 00:43:28.300
that it is dangerous. I'm grateful that I was

00:43:28.300 --> 00:43:32.880
able to leave a situation, but I have clients

00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:35.199
who are divorced and still dealing with post

00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:38.860
-separation abuse. They still show up to the

00:43:38.860 --> 00:43:41.059
house. When are we going to get back together?

00:43:41.659 --> 00:43:44.699
Are we really over? The question is, when would

00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:48.500
this ever end, Dr. Brown? After I am divorced.

00:43:54.230 --> 00:43:56.630
We have somebody who's raised their hand, so

00:43:56.630 --> 00:44:01.710
we want to give them a chance to ask their question,

00:44:01.769 --> 00:44:04.289
if that's okay, Rudine. Yes, and I have a couple

00:44:04.289 --> 00:44:07.750
direct from the chat. Again, I'm calling everybody

00:44:07.750 --> 00:44:10.469
a doctor, but just so you know, Dr. Edlow is

00:44:10.469 --> 00:44:13.730
a doctor, a pharmacy and he's a pastor. So Rose

00:44:13.730 --> 00:44:17.570
Johnson, you have a question? Yes, or I have

00:44:17.570 --> 00:44:20.920
a comment. You know, with the massive abuse,

00:44:21.340 --> 00:44:24.039
each situation can be different. You know, a

00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:27.880
lot of women stay, and most of women's because

00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:30.780
of finance. You know, they get to that point,

00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:34.000
they get set in that situation. Well, I'm used

00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.159
to this standard of living. If I go, I can't

00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.440
afford to do this for my kids. And it's not always

00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:41.980
because of violence that they don't leave. It's

00:44:41.980 --> 00:44:45.139
because of finance. I can't afford to take care

00:44:45.139 --> 00:44:48.619
of my kid. My kid can't maintain. this standard

00:44:48.619 --> 00:44:50.840
of living. And that's so many different situations.

00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:53.219
I really want to talk about a church, but I don't

00:44:53.219 --> 00:44:56.039
think we got enough time because we I know that

00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:58.420
we take one scripture after Bible and we run

00:44:58.420 --> 00:45:01.679
with that. But it's so much more that go with

00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:05.199
that. So I really wish we can get one on one

00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:07.500
or I can get your contact and we can talk about

00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:11.460
that. But dealing with I was in the military

00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:16.780
and I dealt with a lot of domestic violence and

00:45:17.550 --> 00:45:20.309
And I see a whole lot of different situation

00:45:20.309 --> 00:45:23.469
in why female, and most time you see the female

00:45:23.469 --> 00:45:26.090
to stay. And like I said, because of finance

00:45:26.090 --> 00:45:28.489
or she don't have anywhere to go, even if she

00:45:28.489 --> 00:45:31.750
do, well, this don't meet my standard. And I'd

00:45:31.750 --> 00:45:34.929
rather stay here for my kids can have that quality

00:45:34.929 --> 00:45:38.789
of life than to leave. And we don't have anything.

00:45:39.070 --> 00:45:42.429
So it's so many different aspects to domestic

00:45:42.429 --> 00:45:46.469
violence and why women stay in that situation.

00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:51.019
Thank you Rose and absolutely financial abuse

00:45:51.019 --> 00:45:55.059
is one that people are aren't really aware of

00:45:55.059 --> 00:45:58.719
it is a it is a reason why many survivors stay

00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:03.019
I've worked with survivors that lack financial

00:46:03.019 --> 00:46:06.679
literacy tools and When they decide to leave

00:46:06.679 --> 00:46:11.159
but it is it is complex But I want you all to

00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:14.239
walk away that healing and liberation is possible

00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:18.440
It is so impossible. Even the healing is multi

00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:22.460
-layered and it's complex as a survivor. Finding

00:46:22.460 --> 00:46:26.460
ways to increase your financial illicit tubes.

00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:30.019
There are shelters and agencies. There are programs

00:46:30.019 --> 00:46:33.119
available. But once that survivor makes that

00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.280
decision, and that's why a lot of the psycho

00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:39.340
education is so important because they are identifying

00:46:39.340 --> 00:46:41.840
that I am actually experienced domestic violence.

00:46:42.110 --> 00:46:46.090
Like, this is impossible for me to say and to

00:46:46.090 --> 00:46:48.690
accept that I am in an abusive relationship.

00:46:48.989 --> 00:46:51.250
But once they begin to learn and learn about

00:46:51.250 --> 00:46:54.570
resources and take it one step at a time, I'm

00:46:54.570 --> 00:46:57.349
going back to school or whatever that looks like.

00:46:57.730 --> 00:47:00.429
I've worked with survivors who said that I saw

00:47:00.429 --> 00:47:03.590
my mom struggle. So when I met somebody that

00:47:03.590 --> 00:47:06.369
paid up my bills, that was it for me, right?

00:47:06.510 --> 00:47:08.469
That was it for me. I didn't want to struggle

00:47:08.469 --> 00:47:10.289
like mom. I didn't want my kids to struggle.

00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:13.239
But on the outside of that, but in addition to

00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:16.239
that, the struggle, broken bruises, their broken

00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:20.139
arms, you know, bruises. I mean, so many invisible

00:47:20.139 --> 00:47:22.300
wounds that, you know, we don't even have a chance

00:47:22.300 --> 00:47:24.840
to talk about that. I discuss in the book of

00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:27.480
the trauma that happens, that happens to the

00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:29.940
brain that is shifted, that has changed as a

00:47:29.940 --> 00:47:33.340
result of experienced domestic violence. That

00:47:33.340 --> 00:47:37.909
trauma and invisible wounds is just under. in

00:47:37.909 --> 00:47:41.590
what happens to the brain, what happens to children

00:47:41.590 --> 00:47:44.789
who witness abuse, but healing is possible. But

00:47:44.789 --> 00:47:47.949
financial abuse is a reason why many survivors

00:47:47.949 --> 00:47:55.489
stay, yeah. Thank you, Dr. Browns, for that engaging

00:47:55.489 --> 00:47:58.530
conversation about, again, a very hard topic.

00:47:59.309 --> 00:48:01.690
And I don't know, Dr. Shenita Brown, if you were

00:48:01.690 --> 00:48:03.690
reading in the chat, but they were people who

00:48:03.690 --> 00:48:07.289
were a -manning you and agreeing with all the

00:48:07.289 --> 00:48:08.769
things you're saying, because I think some of

00:48:08.769 --> 00:48:11.750
the things you're saying, leaders feel uncomfortable,

00:48:12.210 --> 00:48:13.969
particularly pastors feel uncomfortable saying.

00:48:15.110 --> 00:48:19.429
There are a couple of questions here about And

00:48:19.429 --> 00:48:21.809
again, this might be sensitive, but we talk about

00:48:21.809 --> 00:48:26.710
sensitive things here. How do we deal with some

00:48:26.710 --> 00:48:29.829
Black pastors who are stuck in the patriarchy

00:48:29.829 --> 00:48:33.449
that put women in their place? Let's be real.

00:48:33.610 --> 00:48:37.349
There's some folks in different generations who

00:48:37.349 --> 00:48:41.429
have very clear roles of what role a woman should

00:48:41.429 --> 00:48:44.650
serve and what role a man should serve and in

00:48:44.650 --> 00:48:46.829
a relationship and they bring up was it was it

00:48:46.829 --> 00:48:51.590
Ephesians I just had it Ephesians 5 25 husbands

00:48:51.590 --> 00:48:53.789
love your wives just as Christ loved the church

00:48:53.789 --> 00:48:56.829
and they'll just say you know you know husband

00:48:56.829 --> 00:48:59.610
leaves the wife as the as Jesus leaves the church

00:48:59.610 --> 00:49:02.570
they forget Jesus died for the church let's just

00:49:02.570 --> 00:49:06.610
be clear um but tell me what your thoughts about

00:49:06.610 --> 00:49:10.429
again black pastors being stuck and old defined

00:49:10.429 --> 00:49:15.349
roles and using that to exert power and control.

00:49:15.869 --> 00:49:18.170
Well, that's a form of spiritual views. Yeah.

00:49:19.409 --> 00:49:23.050
But yes, from the but from the pulpit, right?

00:49:23.389 --> 00:49:25.670
Most certainly. Right. And so I think everybody's

00:49:25.670 --> 00:49:29.210
possible. Everybody is capable of changing their

00:49:29.210 --> 00:49:33.269
views. My grandmother lived to be 96 and for

00:49:33.269 --> 00:49:36.349
so long she thought that women couldn't be pastors.

00:49:37.289 --> 00:49:40.730
I never saw her wear pants. My mother still doesn't

00:49:40.730 --> 00:49:43.650
wear pants. But she was able to change her beliefs

00:49:43.650 --> 00:49:46.750
and say that a woman can be a pastor. She began

00:49:46.750 --> 00:49:48.929
to understand domestic violence and say that

00:49:48.929 --> 00:49:51.690
it is not right. And my family, so many women

00:49:51.690 --> 00:49:54.329
were in abusive relationships and marriages.

00:49:54.670 --> 00:49:56.650
And because they were told to stay, they were

00:49:56.650 --> 00:49:58.889
told they had to submit, they were told that

00:49:58.889 --> 00:50:01.329
that's what they're supposed to do. Just endure

00:50:01.329 --> 00:50:04.230
it, you know, God's gonna see you through. like,

00:50:04.309 --> 00:50:06.050
you know, but she was able to change. So if she

00:50:06.050 --> 00:50:09.010
at 95 years old was able to say that a woman

00:50:09.010 --> 00:50:11.070
can be a pastor, everybody's capable of change.

00:50:11.389 --> 00:50:13.829
It's about the awareness, it's about the education,

00:50:13.849 --> 00:50:17.329
it's about the basis of humanity. Like, how could

00:50:17.329 --> 00:50:22.030
you say that this is okay? How would God be okay

00:50:22.030 --> 00:50:25.030
with a woman being physically abused, emotionally

00:50:25.030 --> 00:50:28.590
abused, you name it, sexually abused for the

00:50:28.590 --> 00:50:33.800
sake of staying married? Just to say I am married.

00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:36.360
That's her role. That's her role to submit to

00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:38.699
her husband. And she's supposed to endure all

00:50:38.699 --> 00:50:43.360
of this based on how it's taught. So Dr. Shenita

00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:45.460
Brown, I'm pretty certain that we grew up in

00:50:45.460 --> 00:50:47.139
the same church because all the things you're

00:50:47.139 --> 00:50:50.440
saying, sit them down, suffer through it, you

00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:54.239
know, never divorce, don't wear pants, you know,

00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:57.539
all the things. But we'll have another conversation

00:50:57.539 --> 00:51:00.869
about that another time. One thing that you talked

00:51:00.869 --> 00:51:03.690
about multiple times, and I think this is something

00:51:03.690 --> 00:51:08.429
why pastors tiptoe or don't necessarily talk

00:51:08.429 --> 00:51:12.789
about this in the church, is the fact that you're

00:51:12.789 --> 00:51:15.730
dealing with a dangerous situation, right? You

00:51:15.730 --> 00:51:19.670
have, again, we've been talking about male abusers.

00:51:20.150 --> 00:51:22.690
Let's face it, there could be female abusers,

00:51:22.789 --> 00:51:25.929
right? Okay, so we're just saying the abuser.

00:51:26.139 --> 00:51:29.800
Right. Just say nobody's exempt, no race, no,

00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:33.400
no. Exactly. Exactly. But some pastors, nobody's

00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:37.559
exempt. But some pastors are worried about, you

00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:40.380
know, if they were to approach the quote unquote

00:51:40.380 --> 00:51:42.480
abuser, because they're seeing the symptoms and

00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:44.440
signs that you talked about, that there could

00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:48.159
be collateral damage to that pastor, to their,

00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:52.800
their flock, to their treasures, coffers, just

00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:59.760
to be real. So Help sort of unpack that. Because

00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:02.820
I think that that's a real concern. And how do

00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:08.579
you help people overcome that fear? Yeah. So

00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:10.860
I do not work with abusers. I do not work with

00:52:10.860 --> 00:52:15.019
offenders. I don't. But there is a genuine fear

00:52:15.019 --> 00:52:18.659
of something could happen. How do I support?

00:52:19.019 --> 00:52:23.269
I think having pamphlets as a resource. connected.

00:52:23.449 --> 00:52:26.869
Maybe a handout would be important. The language

00:52:26.869 --> 00:52:29.489
is so important. I care about you. God loves

00:52:29.489 --> 00:52:32.230
you. I don't have all the words, but we are here

00:52:32.230 --> 00:52:34.349
to support you. This is what this looks like,

00:52:34.409 --> 00:52:38.869
the assistance. Even the same, if you are working

00:52:38.869 --> 00:52:41.909
with, it's a thin line. So here's why you have

00:52:41.909 --> 00:52:46.250
to be careful approaching an abuser. More than

00:52:46.250 --> 00:52:48.530
likely, the survivor is going to get re -victimized

00:52:48.530 --> 00:52:54.329
when she get back home. So if you say, if you

00:52:54.329 --> 00:52:58.630
suspect some sort of abuse is going on and then

00:52:58.630 --> 00:53:02.210
you go and hand this pamphlet, hey brother, you

00:53:02.210 --> 00:53:04.630
know, hey sister, you know, I want to help you

00:53:04.630 --> 00:53:07.130
out or I'm noticing this, nine out of 10, they're

00:53:07.130 --> 00:53:10.050
going to be like, you talk to someone while they're

00:53:10.050 --> 00:53:12.230
speaking to me and they're going to get re -victimized

00:53:12.230 --> 00:53:18.130
at home. I will caution against co -counseling.

00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:21.960
husband and wife when it comes to pastoral counseling

00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:24.679
if that is not your area if you're not if you

00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:26.860
don't have experience in it because what happens

00:53:26.860 --> 00:53:28.579
they get re -victimized as well when they go

00:53:28.579 --> 00:53:31.599
home. When a survivor is in a counseling session

00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:37.500
with their partner it is not safe. It's not safe.

00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:40.179
So Dr. Sheena Brown this is a really big issue

00:53:40.179 --> 00:53:44.019
that we did not necessarily dedicate all the

00:53:44.019 --> 00:53:47.219
time that we need to to it. Again We want you

00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:49.380
to come back to sort of talk about this. I think

00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:53.920
there needs to be sort of reinforcements. Again,

00:53:54.099 --> 00:53:56.380
you had a lot of helpful information, but I love

00:53:56.380 --> 00:54:00.579
the idea of congregations partnering with domestic

00:54:00.579 --> 00:54:03.860
violence agencies. I'd be remiss if I didn't

00:54:03.860 --> 00:54:08.489
say the YWCA. I serve on the board for many years.

00:54:08.590 --> 00:54:11.309
You can go to their website. They have an EmpowerNet

00:54:11.309 --> 00:54:14.869
helpline that if you're thinking that you might

00:54:14.869 --> 00:54:17.090
be experiencing domestic violence and you just

00:54:17.090 --> 00:54:20.469
need to help figure out a plan, they have resources,

00:54:20.829 --> 00:54:24.210
they have housing. Again, that's one organization

00:54:24.210 --> 00:54:28.010
that I think it behooves a number of our faith

00:54:28.010 --> 00:54:31.230
congregations to sort of develop a connection

00:54:31.230 --> 00:54:33.929
with. I would say that too when I live in Richmond,

00:54:34.090 --> 00:54:36.889
the YWCA, but I would also leave faith leaders.

00:54:37.030 --> 00:54:39.449
And if you're a pastor right now, we have, what,

00:54:39.510 --> 00:54:42.789
two more Sundays left in October. Is it two or

00:54:42.789 --> 00:54:46.050
three? Right? If you aren't doing anything for

00:54:46.050 --> 00:54:49.150
Domestic Violence Awareness Month, you can start

00:54:49.150 --> 00:54:53.059
with Purple Sunday in your church. asking your

00:54:53.059 --> 00:54:56.159
members to wear a form, an article of purple,

00:54:56.619 --> 00:54:59.159
just as many churches do for Breast Cancer Awareness

00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:03.159
or Heart Sunday in solidarity for domestic violence.

00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:06.280
That's how you raise awareness. You don't need

00:55:06.280 --> 00:55:09.199
to breathe, but you can take next Sunday if you

00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:11.280
have the power to change your order of service.

00:55:11.699 --> 00:55:14.679
I am leaving you with this charge to do what

00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:17.420
you can now this month for Domestic Violence

00:55:17.420 --> 00:55:19.920
Awareness Month. There are survivors in your

00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:23.230
churches. and by asking people in your church

00:55:23.230 --> 00:55:27.230
to wear purple, a dress, a tie, some form of

00:55:27.230 --> 00:55:31.489
purple for domestic violence awareness is a start.

00:55:31.969 --> 00:55:34.309
You are speaking to survivors and saying, I see

00:55:34.309 --> 00:55:37.030
you. We don't have all the answers, but this

00:55:37.030 --> 00:55:43.849
is a start. Again, that's a great task. Charge

00:55:43.849 --> 00:55:46.030
has been put before them because I hope all my

00:55:46.030 --> 00:55:48.010
pastors are writing down. They got to tell people

00:55:48.010 --> 00:55:50.539
about... Wearing purple, that this is the best

00:55:50.539 --> 00:55:53.559
violence awareness month, as well as get your

00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:55.840
COVID and flu shot. So two messages. Yes, absolutely.

00:55:55.900 --> 00:55:59.260
I have my flu shot. Yeah, I do. Boop, boop, boop.

00:55:59.820 --> 00:56:02.760
Well, thank you again for being here. I need

00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:04.659
to speed through the announcements because I

00:56:04.659 --> 00:56:08.099
know people want us to end on time. Can I just

00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:09.900
shout out that this was a good one? Thank you,

00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:12.699
guys. Thank you. I hope to return. Absolutely.

00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:19.130
We need more time. And we hear that. Pastor Dr.

00:56:19.230 --> 00:56:21.210
Ridley, they're doing this Sunday. Last Sunday

00:56:21.210 --> 00:56:24.150
was pink. This Sunday is purple. Whoo, that's

00:56:24.150 --> 00:56:27.809
great. But the last thing I'll say for you is

00:56:27.809 --> 00:56:30.010
there's a special shout out and celebration for

00:56:30.010 --> 00:56:34.230
Pastor Ross, who's celebrating his 32 years of

00:56:34.230 --> 00:56:39.989
a pastor at Providence Park Baptist Church. Sorry

00:56:39.989 --> 00:56:42.530
about that. And we pray for a beautiful time

00:56:42.530 --> 00:56:45.429
of worship, celebration and fellowship this Sunday.

00:56:45.809 --> 00:56:49.159
So with that. I did a complete blindside to you

00:56:49.159 --> 00:56:51.880
about that one, Dr. Ross. But now that you're

00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:53.820
all excited about Sunday, you can close this

00:56:53.820 --> 00:57:00.500
out in prayer. I want to ask one question. Is

00:57:00.500 --> 00:57:04.960
there a time circumstance when you would report

00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:08.860
such domestic violence? That was just a thought.

00:57:09.260 --> 00:57:14.929
And is that even apropos? I know sometimes in

00:57:14.929 --> 00:57:17.829
teaching in school, if I hear something about

00:57:17.829 --> 00:57:20.869
abuse, I have to report it. We have required

00:57:20.869 --> 00:57:25.050
to do this and that, but is there a case where,

00:57:26.309 --> 00:57:31.469
I don't know. I just raised the question. I would

00:57:31.469 --> 00:57:34.780
say, Dr. Ross, that's a great question. depending

00:57:34.780 --> 00:57:37.000
on who are identified as mandated reporters in

00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:39.320
your congregation. When it comes to children,

00:57:39.639 --> 00:57:42.260
yes. When you want to do a wellness check, you

00:57:42.260 --> 00:57:45.659
can do that as well. But that's a separate conversation.

00:57:45.820 --> 00:57:47.639
Perhaps we can come back and I can walk you through

00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:50.760
that. So the same as it is with sexual abuse

00:57:50.760 --> 00:57:53.880
and working with teen ministries and teens, who

00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:56.260
are your mandated reporters, like making a CPS

00:57:56.260 --> 00:57:58.719
report. So that would be important. But also

00:57:58.719 --> 00:58:01.000
if you have some concerns, you can do an anonymous

00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:07.000
wellness check. It's good. Okay. Let us bow,

00:58:07.059 --> 00:58:12.099
and thank you so much. Let us bow. I removed

00:58:12.099 --> 00:58:17.679
a person because of some suspicions, and well,

00:58:17.699 --> 00:58:20.699
I didn't feel happy about it. Well, I don't know,

00:58:20.699 --> 00:58:22.940
I felt good about it, but it's just a matter

00:58:22.940 --> 00:58:27.480
of having to do it. Yeah, good for you. Let us

00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.920
just pause quickly and briefly. God of our weary

00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:34.719
years, God of our silent tears, Thou who has

00:58:34.719 --> 00:58:38.119
brought us thus far along the way, Thou who has

00:58:38.119 --> 00:58:40.539
by Thy might led us into the light, Lord, keep

00:58:40.539 --> 00:58:44.659
us forever in Thy path, we pray. Lest our feet,

00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:48.179
O God, stray from the places where we met Thee,

00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:51.099
Lest our hearts drunk with the wine of the world

00:58:51.099 --> 00:58:54.539
we forget Thee, God, shadowed beneath Thy hands,

00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:57.900
Lord, may we forever stand true to Thee, our

00:58:57.900 --> 00:59:01.400
God, true to our people, and true to our native

00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:06.829
land. We pray for thy namesake. Amen. That was

00:59:06.829 --> 00:59:11.650
beautiful. Outstanding. Thank you so much. Really

00:59:11.650 --> 00:59:14.449
appreciate it. God bless each and every one of

00:59:14.449 --> 00:59:14.789
you.