I'm Dr. Rob Wynn, and you're listening to Real
Cancer Talk from VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer
Center. Good afternoon, everybody. We're going
to go ahead and get started. Again, it's so good
to see so many of your faces. Today, we're going
to talk about the VCU Massey Community Grant
Initiative. We've been teasing it for a while,
but we'll get in some detail about it just to
make sure that folks are aware of upcoming deadlines.
Um, and the other part of our conversation today
is it's a hard conversation, but it's a conversation
that's needed and that's intimate partner violence
and mental wellness. It seems like a oxymoron
to say, you know, intimate partner and violence,
but it does happen more often than people want
to acknowledge. So today we're just going to
be fully transparent and have a really open conversation
with Dr. Browns, I get to say that, yay. But
before we go any further, I'm gonna ask Dr. Larry
Brayboy, who's here with us today, to open us
up in prayer. Welcome, thank you. Lord, we offer
this prayer on behalf of all of our brothers
and sisters at facts and faith and beyond. We
ask for your blessing, wisdom and guidance as.
We discussed the issues of the day. We pray that
our efforts will bring hope, health, and healing
to all of the communities and people of faith
that we reach. And we ask these things in your
name. Amen. Amen. Dr. Brayboy, hope, health,
and healing. I'm stealing that. I'm going to
use it in the future. Yes, we definitely pray
for God. divine guidance on all three fronts.
So with that, Dr. Nguyen, I know you're in DC,
as you've reported. Tell us what's going on health
-wise. I will acknowledge I haven't gotten my
flu shot or my COVID shot yet, but they are coming
up. I have to prepare myself mentally and physically
for that challenge, because you know it takes
me out for like 36 hours, but it's worth it.
So Dr. Wynn, what else do you have to share with
us today? Unfortunately, many of you know that
as a result of the closure of the parts of the
federal government, there is no new advice coming
out of the CDC because it's closed. There's nothing
coming out of the NIH and NCI. This morning,
we are hopeful though. that things will be resolved
by the end of the month. It looks as if that
every time they get kind of close to something
that something else happened. So we're pretty
sure that by the end of the month, going into
November, the government will likely be open.
Why is this important? It's important because
if you have to get scripts to get your COVID
shot, we will make that easy. at most of your
primary care docs, most of your health systems,
just like VCU Massey and VCU. I'm gonna suggest
to you that the flu and the COVID vaccine still
are probably more important this year relative
to what they have been in the past, simply because
we suspect that because there's been this extra
step of getting or having to get vaccinated,
that there will be more carriers with COVID and
different strains. Same thing is true with the
flu. So the recommendations going to be at the
moment, the best I could get from the folks that
I can talk with at the CDC is that they are strongly
recommending that people still get, or at least
I should say, let me qualify that, the old timers.
They are definitely sort of arguing that everyone
should continue to get the flu vaccine and the
COVID vaccine. and that the extra step of having
to either get the nurse practitioner, the advanced
practicing nurse, the doctor to just write a
script for it is actually a good thing, or shouldn't
be an hindrance to you're doing the right thing.
So let's get those shots, except, you know, we're
now all the way in October. You know, we really,
you know, as you know, this goes through the
fall. So if we can get people, Stats and Arms,
as we're calling it now, um and people before
november that will be a good thing so we need
to clarify what you mean by old timers because
some of us are about to have a milestone birthday
next year so what what number are you talking
about in a ballpark i was referring to the people
had who had been at the cdc for more than 10
years um and uh but i will say the following
that if you have other diseases, diabetes, hypertension,
if you have other issues, if you have ever been
on steroids in and out, if you have asthma, you
should get your shot. I mean, that's just the
way it goes down. And so my goal is to actually
message today that in your congregations on Sunday,
in your community work with your folks within
the community, we still should be not moving
away from getting the annual COVID, an annual
flu shot, we should just say that we have to
overcome one additional obstacle, but let's get
it. That's great. And doctor, I mean, I call
everybody doctor now or reverend, but Leonard
Edlo, thank you for letting people know that
anyone over the age of three can get a flu and
COVID vaccine at a pharmacy without prescription.
So that's awesome. That's great to know. Well,
thank you, Dr. Nguyen. Stay warm. I enjoy your
time, you know, waving at your event. Yeah, so
so so that folks know so I was the I'm at the
NDC because it's my the last year and they're
selling me braiding my transition of the gavel
to the next president chair of the American Association
of Cancer Institute. This is one that's been
around since 1952 famously. has been noted to
have four Nobel Prize winners who were president
in chairs before I was. The distinction is I'm
the first African -American and the first Virginian
ever to hold this position so the meeting starts
in a few hours and Friday it will go until Tuesday
morning until I gavel out but just wanted to
make sure I was with you guys to give me the
information that ain't done change get the shots.
Yes, cause yes, cause crazy talking. I don't
mean that you got to actually act crazy. Get
your shots. Let's get them in before November
on your Sundays. Tell people that again, those
shots still matter. I don't care what anybody
says. Let's still get those shots this year to
keep each other safe and keep ourselves safe
and healthy. Awesome power clap for you. Do you
know whose power clap is one on one power clap?
For you and for getting the shots, okay? So send
pictures. All right, we'll do. All right, so
now we're gonna turn it over to Dr. Sutton to
talk about, again, we've been teasing this, the
VCU Massie Community Grant Initiative. Dr. Sutton?
All right, happy Friday, everyone. So like Rudine
said, we're really excited to be able to do this
again this year. We were able to do community
grants last year. And, you know, I know Dr. Wynn
probably had to go because he's very busy, but
like we're really indebted to him for providing
these opportunities for us to provide grant opportunities
to our community partners. So I just have, I
thought it was easiest in this case if I share
a few slides with you so you can see as I go
along. So we have three levels of grants that
we're offering this year. Our first level is
called our seed grant. That is a $5 ,000 award
for a one -year or 12 -month period. And this
particular grant is in order for you to come
up with some ideas as our community partners
around cancer prevention, detection, survivorship,
policy, anything that we can align with cancer.
So you can see we're on the whole trajectory
of cancer, whether it's how to prevent it. whether
it's how to help people get access to treatment,
whether it's about how to improve the lives of
survivorship anywhere within there. And it's
a very beginning. So this is an opportunity for
you to develop something, to collect some data,
to do some training. This is what this kind of
grant is for. In addition to that, we have the
Cultivate grant, which I'm very excited about
this year. The Cultivate grant is a $20 ,000
award that's over a 12 -month period. And this
one is different because this is to help build
capacity within your community organization.
So our goal as community engagement at Massey
is not just to provide these grants, it's to
help you and your organizations to be able to
go out to get other larger grants. So if you
are interested in helping to build capacity,
whether that's you want some training in grant
writing, training in budget management, training
in how to even identify grants. all of those
trainings, if you're awarded this, will be a
part of that 12 -year award, a 12 -month, geez
Louise, 12 years, that'd be nice, that 12 -month
award, okay? And in addition to that, you will
also get partnered with one of our Massey investigators.
And we're doing that because we want to be able
to help partner our Massey investigators and
community partners that have like interests.
So let's say, for instance, your church or your
organization is really interested in colorectal
cancer and maybe how to prevent it. We will find
some of our Massey investigators who also have
that interest, partner you all together with
hopes that you all can go out and apply for some
larger grants and work together. So that is our
Cultivate Award. Lastly is our harvest grant
level. So the harvest grant level, this is $50
,000. It's over a 24 month period. And these
are for organizations that really have kind of,
we say they established programs. So you maybe
have already had like a seed award or a cultivate
award in the past or some other type of grant
and you're ready to move on to a larger grant.
okay and so ideally in these in these cases you'll
be partnering and actually it's a requirement
for this one that you'll partner with someone
in Massey and if you're interested we'll help
you with identifying that individual but this
is I'm ready for this we have a program we're
ready to build out and eventually in the next
two years we want to go for a larger award. So
these are our three levels that we have and we
have some key dates coming up. So all of this
information is available online, but we recognize
that some folks are new to this and some folks
need some additional resources to help. We all
do when it comes down to grant writing. So we
have a couple of dates here. We're going to offer
a technical assistance webinar on November 7th,
specifically for the SEAD Award. And the SEAD
applications are due on December the 15th at
1159 as academics love to push things to the
last minute. So 1159 PM is when you can submit
it. January 16th, we'll announce the awards.
We have a potential launch date of March the
1st of 2026 and then your project within February
of 2027. Now there are different dates for the
cultivate and harvest. So your letters of intent
for cultivate or harvest are due on November
the 6th by 1159. And by November 19th, your organization
will receive some correspondence if you're invited
for a full proposal. Then we have a December
the 3rd proposal development workshop. And this
workshop is required for cultivate applications
but optional for harvest. It's very helpful it
also gives you an opportunity to ask questions
to get further clarification anything you may
need prior to developing your proposal. December
3rd through March the 1st we'll establish those
collaborations with Massey investigators so you'll
work with our team so we can identify what your
needs are what you're looking for and make sure
we have a nice alignment with one of our team
members here at Massey and then finally in March
the full proposals will be due. Okay, so we again
like I said, we are very excited here if you
want to scan here You can learn more about all
of those those three levels there what's required
for the letter of intents What are the dates
in addition you can see our email there? I'm
sure I can drop that in the chapter. You can't
if you don't catch it But we are here and available
for you. We are really excited that we have these
opportunities. We want you to ask your questions.
We want you to reach out to us because we're
here. We want as many folks to apply and be successful
as possible. So if anyone has any questions,
I'm going to stop here. I know I have like a
minute or so for any questions. And if you don't
have questions and you don't want to ask them
out loud, you can put them in the chat. I'll
be here for the whole meeting. And then as well
as our program manager for our community engagement,
Michael Guestme. He is up here as well. And so
any questions that I cannot answer, I'm sure
he can as well. So Dr. Sutton, you know, I always
have like tons of questions just rolling around
up in here. Hopefully this will come out coherently.
Can you give us some examples of projects that
fall into the seed or cultivate or harvest bucket
just so people can just start thinking about
programs? So I'm going to say now cultivate to
be different because it's our first year doing
this. That's right. I'm sorry. See grants though.
If you're looking, you're like my organization
is interested in creating materials to start
to engage our like, let's say a church. I want
to be able to engage my church in information
about colonoscopies or colorectal cancer. And
we want to create some materials along with some
individuals. We want to maybe do some surveys
of the congregation to understand what screening
looks like, what are some of the barriers. It
may even be we want to have some individuals
come to our church to talk about, like to do
some education. So it's really like that foundational
level. I think we have a there, there. We want
to see what it looks like. And I will tell you
this also, Rudine, on the website, we have some
of our prior awardees, I believe, so folks can
kind of get a glimpse of that. Because we have
anywhere from, like I said, we have faith -based
organizations. We've had one of our favorite
organizations, Community Transformers Foundation.
We've had the Palitan Free Clinic. So we had
a myriad of organizations. Now, Harvest, we've
just awarded our first Harvest grant this past
year. and that was actually the free clinic of
Powhatan. And their focus on nutrition, like
healthy eating. And so they have built within
their infrastructure an opportunity to focus
on, one, providing individuals with healthy eating,
but doing trainings, having nutritionists come
out, and they do assessments of individuals to
understand what some of the barriers to healthy
eating are, all within a lens of cancer prevention.
And so that's the part that's really important
about these grants. we really need them to be
focused on, like I said at the very beginning,
within that spectrum of cancer. Very helpful.
So I recommend that people take a look at the
past programs and could they like reach out to
some of those past recipients as well or is that
sort of like I mean, I can't, I can't say yes
for them. But I would suggest if you have a contact
at any of the past recipients that you just text
or whatever social media thing you do to figure
out what was their secret sauce. How did they
come up with the program? But this is not what
VCU Massey says. Cause the things that I say,
we cannot impute. to these folks. I mean, they're
like great partners here across rich and not
just with Massey with other organizations. And
so I could go as far as to say, I'm sure they
would be happy to share like what they what they're
doing and you know how they went about it. Okay,
cool. Cool. And take advantage of the workshops.
I think those that will make this all scary,
right? Absolutely. Yes. Awesome. Well, thank
you so much. Does anybody else have any questions
for Dr. Sutton? because I'm actually ahead of
time right now, which that never happens. All
right, if you have questions, please feel free
to directly reach out to her or Michael Guesme,
who's also on the call, or just pop it in that
everyone can see chat and we're happy to address
them. Thank you. OK. Now we are going to talk
about, again, a subject that people may or may
not be comfortable discussing, but it's something
We have to do hard things, right? That's just
what we do as humans. But before we start having
that conversation that's facilitated by Dr. Brown,
with Dr. Brown, I'm going to do that like two
or three more times during the course of this
conversation. I get a chance to introduce to
you... Dr. Shenita Brown. She's a speaker, board
certified licensed clinical mental health counselor
and educator that believes in fostering transformative
and empowering dialogue about intimate partner
violence, black women and mental health wellness.
With over 15 years of experience in the clinical,
sometimes I struggle with reading. So let me
just slow down. With over 15 years of experience
in the clinical mental health field, Dr. Brown
is carving out an important dimension within
counselor education, the black community and
counseling profession by intersecting black women,
domestic violence, spirituality and mental health.
She is passionate to break the silence and empower
change through education, empowerment and clinical
services. She is a sought -out expert in mental
health wellness, domestic violence, and Black
women. She's a servant leader dedicated to disseminating
her work in a variety of ways to increase awareness
and influence the next generation of advocates
and leaders. Dr. Brown's extensive service includes
work with the North Carolina Domestic Violence
Commission Task Force, and most recently she
served on the Board of Directors for the North
Carolina Coalition Against Sexual Assault and
National Board for Certified Counselors Minority
Fellowship Advisory Council. Dr. Brown has traveled
throughout the country providing educational
workshops and presentations to diverse audiences,
including mental health professionals, collegiate
campuses. I'm glad that you're going to collegiate
campuses. That definitely needs to be spoken
about there. Advocates, faith leaders, and professional
athletic organizations. Again, another place
where this needs to be amplified. She's received
numerous awards. I could have taken up like eight
minutes talking about all of her awards, but
most recently she received the 2021 Jane E. Myers
Counseling and Wellness Award by the North Carolina
Counseling Association. So, Dr. Brown, I know
that was woefully inadequate. trying to describe
all that you are and all that you've been doing
for our community. But again, we're so excited
to have you here. And Dr. Jessica Brown, you
get no introduction because everybody knows that
you are the facts and faith resident, everything.
So with that, Dr. Brown, take it over. Dr. Brown,
do you want me to start sharing your slides now?
Or you want to let me know? Yes, because that
goes with the first question. Yes, absolutely.
OK, sounds great. So folks, what we're going
to do, I'm just going to ask Dr. Brown some questions.
And then we'll have opportunity for Q &A, but
you're welcome to put questions in the chat as
we're talking as well. So these are Dr. Brown's
slides. Yes. OK, so just in case folks don't
know, October is domestic violence awareness
month, which is one of the reasons why we wanted
to have you come. And, you know, people have
heard the terms domestic violence or intimate
partner violence, but as an expert, can you just
kind of level set and let us know, how do you
define domestic violence? Like, what are the
things that need to be happening in a relationship
in order for us to determine that this is a domestic
violence situation? Thank you, Dr. Brown. I would
just say before I get started, thank you for
the opportunity. It's definitely a pleasure to
be here. I am not, I will just say I am not a
minister or a theologian, but I bring you my
expertise as a survivor, as a woman of faith,
as a researcher who has conducted this research
on looking at the role of spirituality, the role
of religious beliefs, the role of Black church,
the role of pastors. in helping black women survivors
get free from domestic violence. And so how I
define domestic violence, and we have this infographic
here, because this infographic is one of the
ways that many survivors began to identify domestic
violence. And the umbrella term is intimate partner
violence or gender -based violence. And what
that means is that domestic violence is a type
of intimate partner violence in which one partner
tries to maintain or gain power and control over
another partner. And so no one comes into counseling
or in conversation. I'm in an abusive relationship.
There's so much shame. and stigma attached to
it, especially in the faith community. And so
what this looks like, this will shows you that
at the core of it is power and control. And outside
of it, you see what that looks like. It can show
up in emotion abuse. in spiritual abuse, it can
show up as physical abuse, it can show up as
financial abuse, right? And so isolation, using
children, intimidation, and it is a pattern.
And it doesn't start out initially in the relationship.
It gradually takes place and it continues to
build into the point where a survivor no longer
recognizes that they're in this situation. They
tend to detach from themselves and they engage
in a variety of survival techniques to stay in
this relationship until the light bulb goes off
that I no longer want this and it doesn't align
with me. So you talked about it being a gradual
process. And I'm thinking about, we've got faith
leaders on the call, but we've also got people
who are embedded in relationship on the call,
right? And so I'm wondering about two aspects
of this process that you talked about. And so
I'm gonna ask you what, you know, we're told
not to ask, which is I'm gonna ask a double barrel
question, right? So on the one hand, if I'm in
a relationship, What might be some signs for
me that there might be some violence, power and
control issues going on in the relationship?
And then the flip side of that, if I'm a clergy
leader just kind of in the course of navigating
relationships in my congregation, what might
be some signs for me that there's domestic violence
going on in a relationship? How do we know this
is happening like from the outside and from the
inside? So I will say, Jessica, thanks for asking
that question, because there's always a survivor
in the room. There's a survivor in this, during
our time together, because one in four women
will experience some form of domestic violence.
So you say one in four, do the math for me. Absolutely.
Do the math of how many survivors are in this
conversation and how many have experienced it.
But what it looks like is, I feel like I'm walking
on eggshells. I would say that as a survivor,
there were times that I felt like I was walking
on eggshells where I was afraid of doing things,
the gradual manipulation, the name calling, intimidation,
isolating me from my family and friends. And
I'm going to say me because after my book was
released, I had family members. you know, share
with me that there were times that we could not
reach you or you were very isolated. My line
sisters shared times that I was isolated and
I experienced domestic violence or relationship
violence in my undergrad years. And I had no
idea. So there are times that we are isolated,
that an abuser would say, you can't do this,
you can't go to church. If you notice some physical
changes or changes in families or appearances,
or when they're with their family and they're
always looking at their husband or wife before
they respond to something, that is a red flag
that something is going on. Because the opposite
of power and control is equality, right? And
so at some point in equality, then there's trust.
There's no fairness. There is negotiation. And
so I'm not saying that you can't respect or saying
that I want to check up my husband. I want to
check with my wife before answering if I'm asked
to serve in a ministry, right? I'm not saying
that. But if you are standing in front of a faith
leader or elder in the conversation, and every
few five minutes you're looking at, I need to
ask if I can speak. That is a red flag. If you
can't even complete a sentence without looking,
can I answer this? Like, yeah, you can. That
is a red flag. Unexplained injuries, right? Or
if it's the summertime and you see them wearing
a scarf. Those are some indicators that there
is some abusive behavior going on. Financial
abuse. We don't talk enough about financial abuse
where survivors will work and they don't have
access to their money. If you want to go to or
if there's an event, again, you know, I've worked
with many survivors and I still have a caseload
working with survivors. And they share sometimes
that I want to do things with my church, with
my ministry, but I couldn't do that. And now
that I'm out the relationship that I can sign
up for a women's conference without checking
or having an allowance for the hard money that
I have earned. And you're telling me I only get
$250 for expenses or for things. She burst into
tears. She said, I don't have to ask him anymore.
That's what liberation and freedom feels like.
So when you begin to notice some of these things
and also this concept of submission and forgiveness
and reconciliation, I mean, there is so much
when it comes to power and control and what that
looks like. And so I'm going to ask you, Jessica,
to go to the next infographic. Okay, so in the
context of spiritual abuse, this is a spiritual
and religious power and control will, okay? If
you want these slides, we can definitely make
sure that you get them. And so what happened
is that spiritual abuse is when one partner,
again, tries to gain or maintain power and control
over another partner, and they do that in the
form of spiritual and religious abuse. They utilize
and misinterpret scriptures to maintain or gain
power and control over their partner. You cannot
go to a Bible study tonight. I had a research
participant who told me that I couldn't serve
my particular faith because my husband did not
agree with it. So as a result, isolation. She
lost her community. It's also when the leader
also misinterprets the scriptures to maintain
power and control over a congregation. So you
know that's where I was headed, right? Because
I know you know me, you know we were going there.
So I know that you've done research in this area
and part of what I'm hoping. we can kind of tease
apart, you know, for many of us as a part of
our religious tradition, y 'all know that little
umbrella picture that people send around social
media every once in a while, you know, God is
the umbrella and then the husband is the leader
of the home, right? And so, you know, there are
lots of different ways that can play out, but
can you talk about maybe how some of these more,
you know, complimentarian theological ideas where
they're really clearly defined gender roles and
one partner is kind of in control. Can you talk
about how we kind of manage or tease those things
apart when it comes to attending to domestic
violence in church life? Like, what would you
suggest in terms of how clergy leaders respond?
I think it's important to just for one, believe
survivors. and hold abusers accountable. And
use scriptures as a form of empowerment, right?
Don't feel so afraid that you can't say to someone
that it's okay to leave, right? And I created
a workshop out of this research called Engage
in a Faith Community Response to Domestic Violence.
And I've had faith leaders who say, Dr. Brown,
well, I was pulled to the side because I counseled
someone to leave this abusive relationship. So
there's a whole community of faith leaders in
general when you think about systemically and
in patriarchal views and gender roles is that
you have to submit because of God's because the
biblical teaching on submission, again, I'm not
a minister of theologian, but what I know is
that it's the scriptures that are used to keep
women and survivors in bondage. And so what we
can do, what would be helpful to use scriptures
as a form of empowerment and help them to see
that abuse and the way you are being treated
does not align with God. That's what survivors
want to hear. They are trusting their faith leader.
They're not coming to you a counselor first.
They're going to a faith leader because I believe
in, I have my relationship with Christ and I
believe that somebody in the church can help
me kind of see and guide me on what I'm doing.
And a lot of times survivors and my clients are
re -victimized because they are told that you
need to submit more. And this concept of submission
as a form of faithfulness has to change. Because
what's happening, women and families are continuing.
They are trapped in abusive relationships. Or
this idea of endurance of suffering. Okay, I'm
going to endure this. You know, I'm going to
get through this because this is what God wants
me to do. We as leaders, you have to be able
to help people to break this down. This is not
what the scripture meant. That's why faith leaders
have such an important role when it comes to
helping people get free from domestic violence.
Right? It's your job. You have a role to help
people to break down the scripture, to help them
to see that this doesn't align with God as the
head, the husband that's next, then the wife
and submission. Like, well, I am submitting to
further abuse. That's what a research participant
told me. So I went to a pastor. They told me
to pray and stay and to submit more. And at the
while she said, well, I'm submitting to more
violence. That's basically keep submitting to
this marriage and this abuse. And I had to keep
submitting to that because that's what the scripture
said, submit to your husband. So it's like you're
picking and choosing the scriptures for survivors,
but there aren't any scriptures being told like,
you know, let's talk about this. How can you
get out? How can you get free? Like where in
the Bible does it show or say, This aligns with
God. So we need the faith leaders to say, break
this down. This isn't it. That's what people
are looking for. They're looking for a faith
leader, a pastor, a deaconess, a trustee, somebody
in the church that trusts to say, I hear you,
I believe you. This is not right. You do not
deserve this. Yeah. And part of what I'm thinking
too, as you're talking is both building awareness,
and the discernment process as clergy leaders.
Because I'm thinking about folks I've worked
with in my clinical practice who may have been
dealing with intimate partner violence. After
a while, as you said, people might begin sort
of hiding all the things that are happening at
home. And so part of our responsibility as leaders
might be asking those questions. Do you feel
like you're in physical danger? Feel like you're
walking on eggshells, right? taking that extra
step to really check in on some of those relational
dynamics that might be happening, but maybe people
aren't aware of or don't feel comfortable talking
about. Because you're right, when we make these
blanket statements, while pray for your marriage
and continue to offer forgiveness to your spouse
might be helpful and appropriate in some situations,
if it's an abuse situation, we are inviting people
to sign up for more harm, right? And so really
understanding the nuance there sounds really
important. Another religious belief is that divorce
or separation is sin. Mm hmm. God hates divorce.
All seven participants were told God hates divorce.
So what do they do? They stay a little bit longer.
Or one of the recent participants said that she
was told Moses wrote the law on marriage. So
as a result, she couldn't leave. She endured
because Moses wrote the law on marriage. That's
what she was told. And she needed to endure this
as a form of faithfulness to her marriage. So
it sounds like a crucial piece. for leaders is
really identifying this could be a situation
where abuse is happening, right? It can be deadly.
It can be deadly. Abusers will show up at churches.
They will show up to a survivor's job, their
family. It is very dangerous. And so the awareness
is important. The language that you use, survivor
-centered, trauma -informed, but also the training
of leaders is paramount to this. So what would
you suggest if a church really wants to, besides
by Dr. Brown's book, which we're gonna talk about
in a little bit, right? If a church really wants
to educate and equip the ministry for responding
to domestic violence, what are some steps that
you would suggest a church takes? Well, for one,
partnering with a local domestic violence agency.
and have some sort of awareness program. If you
have ministries, not every church has the ministry
to support something for domestic violence, but
at the very least, partner with community partners
in training your leaders is important. And the
next step would be creating some sort of domestic
violence policy to hold offenders accountable.
That's the missing key. Like you have to hold
them accountable. So what would you say that
looks like? Well, I will say I grew up in the
United Holy Church in holiness. And so I'm going
to leave with that. That's my upbringing. And
I heard a lot of times that my grandma would
say, well, you just need to sit people down.
You need to sit them down. And so That would
be my, you have to pull them from the work that
they're doing because you're showing the families
that their behavior is okay. So one of my research
participants was re -victimized and she was abused
by one of the church musicians, right? And so
she said, I stopped going to church because every
Sunday I had to look at him playing for God in
the church and they did nothing. So basically
the message was we're okay with his behavior
after she shared with somebody what's happening
to her Yeah Like have some apologies something
in place Training education classes for them
to understand their behavior Have something set
up for vendors for offenders and abusers to let
them know that we do not tolerate this It is
not okay to abuse your wife and your family and
continue to serve. Like you have to take some
time away to address your behavior. That's what
I was saying. There's another slide we can go
to. I wanna talk about the cycle of abuse. Okay,
I know you mentioned the church, but I don't
want to forget this important concept and it's
in the book, but I wanted to show the infographic
for people to understand why it's so hard for
survivors to leave because it is a cycle. As
I said earlier that abusers don't show up as
abusive in their early stage of relationship.
It's the honeymoon phase. Right. Everything is
all peachy king and you know, we're going on
trips and we just love each other We just love
each other and then things begin to take a turn
and I feel like I'm walking on eggshells is when
they're in the tension phase the jealousy the
insults threats the mood changes emotional distance
and Then after that you may have an explosive
episode physical abuse And then the cycle continues.
It continues, it continues, it continues until
a person decides that I want to leave. And it
takes seven attempts for a survivor to successfully
leave. That means that they have tried seven
times. I think for me, it was one, two, three.
Then I said, I'm going to leave. Next thing I
found myself back in the cycle. So keep that
in mind when we are having conversations. I would
have been left. No, you can't say that unless
you have experienced this cycle of abuse. They
just need to leave. I take my kids and go, no,
it's very dangerous to leave. It is deadly. That's
the one of the most dangerous time for a survivor
is when she is trying to get out an abusive situation
because the abuser begins to recognize I want
my power back. And all of those tactics begin
to, they are intensified and they begin to increase.
So if they want you dead, they say, nobody else
is going to have you. They will kill the survivor,
sometimes the family, and sometimes themselves.
Just because survivors trying to get out. They
want to maintain power and control. They want
to make sure that no one else has this so -called
power and control. You belong to me, like the
woman is an object, the family is an object.
So it's a hard conversation, but this is the
reality of domestic violence. It is a cycle of
abuse that goes on for many years. It goes on
for many years. Yes, you have a question. So
you hit on the thing that I think is really important
to name, which is like from the outside looking
in, it may seem like, oh, I would just leave,
but the relational dynamics are a lot more complicated
and really unsafe. Yeah. So if I'm trying to
support somebody who I see is in the cycle of
abuse, but they're not at a position where they
can safely leave, what should support look like
in that period? Support should look like, Jessica,
I love you, girl. I see something going on. I'm
happy to take your kids or, you know, let's go
for a movie. You know, I want something different
from you. I'm going to support you. Ultimately,
you make the decision, right? Because survivors
are already in a controlling situation. So they
don't need someone saying, you just need to leave.
You just need to get out of this. It isn't that
simple. They're trying to find their voice. They
already don't have one. So the last thing they
need is a family member, a friend saying what
you need to do. How about you support my decision?
And when I'm ready, I'm ready. And be OK with
them not ready to leave. They may not be ready
to leave. And you also have to take care of yourself
while helping someone in an abusive situation.
It can be very dangerous. So you have to limit.
your what you share or how involved you want
to get because I'm just recently a couple of
months ago a student at North Carolina Central
was killed Because She was trying to leave an
abusive relationship He killed himself and he
shot at her girlfriend and he missed her Her
girlfriend was at her apartment trying to help
trying to get her stuff out He killed her, killed
himself, but he shot at her girlfriend. That's
how dangerous it is. So you have to determine
and know that domestic violence is very complex.
If I have someone in this situation, I'm gonna
do what I'm having some boundaries, protecting
your peace, learn that it can be like up and
down for you. Your anxiety levels may increase.
You may feel like you walking on eggshells as
well. Just being on pins and needles, because
she's not ready to leave. Or there's a conversation
or he came to her job or she tells her I'm with
Jessica. Like what does that mean for me? So
you have to have your limitations and know how
to support and the book talks about that, you
know Supported survivors and looking for people
who are non -judgmental people who are caring
and things of that nature would be helpful But
it can be very dangerous. I will not lie to you
that it is dangerous. I'm grateful that I was
able to leave a situation, but I have clients
who are divorced and still dealing with post
-separation abuse. They still show up to the
house. When are we going to get back together?
Are we really over? The question is, when would
this ever end, Dr. Brown? After I am divorced.
We have somebody who's raised their hand, so
we want to give them a chance to ask their question,
if that's okay, Rudine. Yes, and I have a couple
direct from the chat. Again, I'm calling everybody
a doctor, but just so you know, Dr. Edlow is
a doctor, a pharmacy and he's a pastor. So Rose
Johnson, you have a question? Yes, or I have
a comment. You know, with the massive abuse,
each situation can be different. You know, a
lot of women stay, and most of women's because
of finance. You know, they get to that point,
they get set in that situation. Well, I'm used
to this standard of living. If I go, I can't
afford to do this for my kids. And it's not always
because of violence that they don't leave. It's
because of finance. I can't afford to take care
of my kid. My kid can't maintain. this standard
of living. And that's so many different situations.
I really want to talk about a church, but I don't
think we got enough time because we I know that
we take one scripture after Bible and we run
with that. But it's so much more that go with
that. So I really wish we can get one on one
or I can get your contact and we can talk about
that. But dealing with I was in the military
and I dealt with a lot of domestic violence and
And I see a whole lot of different situation
in why female, and most time you see the female
to stay. And like I said, because of finance
or she don't have anywhere to go, even if she
do, well, this don't meet my standard. And I'd
rather stay here for my kids can have that quality
of life than to leave. And we don't have anything.
So it's so many different aspects to domestic
violence and why women stay in that situation.
Thank you Rose and absolutely financial abuse
is one that people are aren't really aware of
it is a it is a reason why many survivors stay
I've worked with survivors that lack financial
literacy tools and When they decide to leave
but it is it is complex But I want you all to
walk away that healing and liberation is possible
It is so impossible. Even the healing is multi
-layered and it's complex as a survivor. Finding
ways to increase your financial illicit tubes.
There are shelters and agencies. There are programs
available. But once that survivor makes that
decision, and that's why a lot of the psycho
education is so important because they are identifying
that I am actually experienced domestic violence.
Like, this is impossible for me to say and to
accept that I am in an abusive relationship.
But once they begin to learn and learn about
resources and take it one step at a time, I'm
going back to school or whatever that looks like.
I've worked with survivors who said that I saw
my mom struggle. So when I met somebody that
paid up my bills, that was it for me, right?
That was it for me. I didn't want to struggle
like mom. I didn't want my kids to struggle.
But on the outside of that, but in addition to
that, the struggle, broken bruises, their broken
arms, you know, bruises. I mean, so many invisible
wounds that, you know, we don't even have a chance
to talk about that. I discuss in the book of
the trauma that happens, that happens to the
brain that is shifted, that has changed as a
result of experienced domestic violence. That
trauma and invisible wounds is just under. in
what happens to the brain, what happens to children
who witness abuse, but healing is possible. But
financial abuse is a reason why many survivors
stay, yeah. Thank you, Dr. Browns, for that engaging
conversation about, again, a very hard topic.
And I don't know, Dr. Shenita Brown, if you were
reading in the chat, but they were people who
were a -manning you and agreeing with all the
things you're saying, because I think some of
the things you're saying, leaders feel uncomfortable,
particularly pastors feel uncomfortable saying.
There are a couple of questions here about And
again, this might be sensitive, but we talk about
sensitive things here. How do we deal with some
Black pastors who are stuck in the patriarchy
that put women in their place? Let's be real.
There's some folks in different generations who
have very clear roles of what role a woman should
serve and what role a man should serve and in
a relationship and they bring up was it was it
Ephesians I just had it Ephesians 5 25 husbands
love your wives just as Christ loved the church
and they'll just say you know you know husband
leaves the wife as the as Jesus leaves the church
they forget Jesus died for the church let's just
be clear um but tell me what your thoughts about
again black pastors being stuck and old defined
roles and using that to exert power and control.
Well, that's a form of spiritual views. Yeah.
But yes, from the but from the pulpit, right?
Most certainly. Right. And so I think everybody's
possible. Everybody is capable of changing their
views. My grandmother lived to be 96 and for
so long she thought that women couldn't be pastors.
I never saw her wear pants. My mother still doesn't
wear pants. But she was able to change her beliefs
and say that a woman can be a pastor. She began
to understand domestic violence and say that
it is not right. And my family, so many women
were in abusive relationships and marriages.
And because they were told to stay, they were
told they had to submit, they were told that
that's what they're supposed to do. Just endure
it, you know, God's gonna see you through. like,
you know, but she was able to change. So if she
at 95 years old was able to say that a woman
can be a pastor, everybody's capable of change.
It's about the awareness, it's about the education,
it's about the basis of humanity. Like, how could
you say that this is okay? How would God be okay
with a woman being physically abused, emotionally
abused, you name it, sexually abused for the
sake of staying married? Just to say I am married.
That's her role. That's her role to submit to
her husband. And she's supposed to endure all
of this based on how it's taught. So Dr. Shenita
Brown, I'm pretty certain that we grew up in
the same church because all the things you're
saying, sit them down, suffer through it, you
know, never divorce, don't wear pants, you know,
all the things. But we'll have another conversation
about that another time. One thing that you talked
about multiple times, and I think this is something
why pastors tiptoe or don't necessarily talk
about this in the church, is the fact that you're
dealing with a dangerous situation, right? You
have, again, we've been talking about male abusers.
Let's face it, there could be female abusers,
right? Okay, so we're just saying the abuser.
Right. Just say nobody's exempt, no race, no,
no. Exactly. Exactly. But some pastors, nobody's
exempt. But some pastors are worried about, you
know, if they were to approach the quote unquote
abuser, because they're seeing the symptoms and
signs that you talked about, that there could
be collateral damage to that pastor, to their,
their flock, to their treasures, coffers, just
to be real. So Help sort of unpack that. Because
I think that that's a real concern. And how do
you help people overcome that fear? Yeah. So
I do not work with abusers. I do not work with
offenders. I don't. But there is a genuine fear
of something could happen. How do I support?
I think having pamphlets as a resource. connected.
Maybe a handout would be important. The language
is so important. I care about you. God loves
you. I don't have all the words, but we are here
to support you. This is what this looks like,
the assistance. Even the same, if you are working
with, it's a thin line. So here's why you have
to be careful approaching an abuser. More than
likely, the survivor is going to get re -victimized
when she get back home. So if you say, if you
suspect some sort of abuse is going on and then
you go and hand this pamphlet, hey brother, you
know, hey sister, you know, I want to help you
out or I'm noticing this, nine out of 10, they're
going to be like, you talk to someone while they're
speaking to me and they're going to get re -victimized
at home. I will caution against co -counseling.
husband and wife when it comes to pastoral counseling
if that is not your area if you're not if you
don't have experience in it because what happens
they get re -victimized as well when they go
home. When a survivor is in a counseling session
with their partner it is not safe. It's not safe.
So Dr. Sheena Brown this is a really big issue
that we did not necessarily dedicate all the
time that we need to to it. Again We want you
to come back to sort of talk about this. I think
there needs to be sort of reinforcements. Again,
you had a lot of helpful information, but I love
the idea of congregations partnering with domestic
violence agencies. I'd be remiss if I didn't
say the YWCA. I serve on the board for many years.
You can go to their website. They have an EmpowerNet
helpline that if you're thinking that you might
be experiencing domestic violence and you just
need to help figure out a plan, they have resources,
they have housing. Again, that's one organization
that I think it behooves a number of our faith
congregations to sort of develop a connection
with. I would say that too when I live in Richmond,
the YWCA, but I would also leave faith leaders.
And if you're a pastor right now, we have, what,
two more Sundays left in October. Is it two or
three? Right? If you aren't doing anything for
Domestic Violence Awareness Month, you can start
with Purple Sunday in your church. asking your
members to wear a form, an article of purple,
just as many churches do for Breast Cancer Awareness
or Heart Sunday in solidarity for domestic violence.
That's how you raise awareness. You don't need
to breathe, but you can take next Sunday if you
have the power to change your order of service.
I am leaving you with this charge to do what
you can now this month for Domestic Violence
Awareness Month. There are survivors in your
churches. and by asking people in your church
to wear purple, a dress, a tie, some form of
purple for domestic violence awareness is a start.
You are speaking to survivors and saying, I see
you. We don't have all the answers, but this
is a start. Again, that's a great task. Charge
has been put before them because I hope all my
pastors are writing down. They got to tell people
about... Wearing purple, that this is the best
violence awareness month, as well as get your
COVID and flu shot. So two messages. Yes, absolutely.
I have my flu shot. Yeah, I do. Boop, boop, boop.
Well, thank you again for being here. I need
to speed through the announcements because I
know people want us to end on time. Can I just
shout out that this was a good one? Thank you,
guys. Thank you. I hope to return. Absolutely.
We need more time. And we hear that. Pastor Dr.
Ridley, they're doing this Sunday. Last Sunday
was pink. This Sunday is purple. Whoo, that's
great. But the last thing I'll say for you is
there's a special shout out and celebration for
Pastor Ross, who's celebrating his 32 years of
a pastor at Providence Park Baptist Church. Sorry
about that. And we pray for a beautiful time
of worship, celebration and fellowship this Sunday.
So with that. I did a complete blindside to you
about that one, Dr. Ross. But now that you're
all excited about Sunday, you can close this
out in prayer. I want to ask one question. Is
there a time circumstance when you would report
such domestic violence? That was just a thought.
And is that even apropos? I know sometimes in
teaching in school, if I hear something about
abuse, I have to report it. We have required
to do this and that, but is there a case where,
I don't know. I just raised the question. I would
say, Dr. Ross, that's a great question. depending
on who are identified as mandated reporters in
your congregation. When it comes to children,
yes. When you want to do a wellness check, you
can do that as well. But that's a separate conversation.
Perhaps we can come back and I can walk you through
that. So the same as it is with sexual abuse
and working with teen ministries and teens, who
are your mandated reporters, like making a CPS
report. So that would be important. But also
if you have some concerns, you can do an anonymous
wellness check. It's good. Okay. Let us bow,
and thank you so much. Let us bow. I removed
a person because of some suspicions, and well,
I didn't feel happy about it. Well, I don't know,
I felt good about it, but it's just a matter
of having to do it. Yeah, good for you. Let us
just pause quickly and briefly. God of our weary
years, God of our silent tears, Thou who has
brought us thus far along the way, Thou who has
by Thy might led us into the light, Lord, keep
us forever in Thy path, we pray. Lest our feet,
O God, stray from the places where we met Thee,
Lest our hearts drunk with the wine of the world
we forget Thee, God, shadowed beneath Thy hands,
Lord, may we forever stand true to Thee, our
God, true to our people, and true to our native
land. We pray for thy namesake. Amen. That was
beautiful. Outstanding. Thank you so much. Really
appreciate it. God bless each and every one of
you.