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I'm Dr.

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Rob Winn and you're listening
to Real Cancer Talk

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from VCU Massey
Comprehensive Cancer Center.

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I am Miss Community
Clovia,m welcoming you to Community

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Conversations: The Black Health
Wellness Podcast.

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And you want to turn us all the way up
and we're going to be talking about

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cancer research,
Comprehensive Cancer Center.

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And we want you to meet the new deputy
director of research

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at VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer
Center, doctor Monica Baskin.

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How are you?

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I am doing well today.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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Welcome to Virginia from Hotlanta.

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Thank you, thank you.

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Well, Doctor Monica Baskin,
you're going to share your story with us,

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and you're going to be talking
about advancing

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community outreach and engagement
and is so important.

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Now, doctor Robert Winn referred to you
as the Jackie Robinson of Outreach

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and Community Engagement while you were
the deputy director at UPMC Hillman.

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What exactly is he talking about?

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You hit it out the park all the time.

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What's the what's the deal?

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Well, I'm sure your audience knows
Doctor Winn very well. Yes.

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So he definitely has some, 
very colorful descriptions.

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And so I was, definitely honored

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by that statement that he made.

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And I think
that part of what he was saying

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was that I was, you
know, charting some new territory

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when it comes to cancer centers
and especially achieving

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the role of deputy director
at a major conference of cancer center.

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That probably is paving the way 
for people

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that look like me
in terms of these type of roles.

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I think it's important to have those
conversations to understand where we are,

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because folks who look like you and me,
when it comes to anything about medical

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or mentioning the C word,
we run away or we become in denial.

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But with this show
we're having dialog with you

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about strides
that we can make in the community.

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Let's start with your lived experience,
because a lot of times

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when folks are talking,
they are just a doctor

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and they just can't engage
and relate to the community.

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Share your story with us. Sure.

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So as you already mentioned,
I am a native of Atlanta, Georgia.

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And just in case your audience
wants to check on what I mean,

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I'm from the Swat,
so definitely southwest Atlanta.

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Outkast, the late John

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Lewis’ district
right in the city of Atlanta.

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Atlanta Public School alumni, 
so straight from the city.

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And and I think, you know, I start there
because I think that definitely lays

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the foundation for, for all of my career

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and the things that I'm doing right now

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and hopefully will continue
to do in the future.

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So as a young girl growing up in Atlanta,
seeing a lot of the benefits

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of the earlier civil rights movement
in the 1960s,

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having parents that both matriculated
through the Atlanta University Center.

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My father graduated from Morehouse College
and my mother attended Morris Brown.

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There was a different kind of,
I guess, environment that I grew up in.

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And seeing a lot of people that,
you know, focus and struggle

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to make sure that my sister
and I, were able to achieve educations,

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have high school, and to continue
to give back to our community.

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So that's where I think I'll start that,
that that's my grounding.

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That's where a lot of my work
has, has focused on.

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Just simply
laying the foundation for it all,

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because you could have graduated from
college, you could have done this or that,

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but you were interested
in cancer and research.

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Where does that come from? Yeah. Well,

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well, well, not originally actually.

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So originally I was really interested

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in, in generally doing things
that were in the helping professions.

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So I had some intrigue and idea
around psychology and,

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my father's major
while he was at Morehouse,

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was a combination of psychology, 
religion

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and physical activity, or as he called it,
the mind, the body and the spirit.

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And so I grew up seeing

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all these different psychology
books around that, around my house.

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And I would always talk about, oh,
I want to do this.

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And my father said, well,
you can't really do anything with it

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with a college degree in psychology.

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So you need to think again.

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So, you know, kind of start
thinking about other opportunities.

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But unfortunately,
my senior year in high school,

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my father was diagnosed with

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colorectal cancer, 
the summer before my senior year.

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And he passed away, early that fall.

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And from there, things
significantly changed in my life.

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Yeah, because with colorectal cancer,
if it's detected early,

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it can save lives, right?

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With the screenings.

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Absolutely.

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It is one of the cancers
that we know for sure can be prevented.

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So, you know, we've really focused a lot
in my in my work about helping people

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to be educated about it,
that if you catch it early,

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especially with some of the tests
that they have, they can fill in and,

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and basically remove what we consider
those pre-cancerous

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cells that are in your colon,
get them out and you never go ahead,

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those cells never grow into cancer.

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And I know right after that you were like,
okay, I lost my dad to it.

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And it's something with this cancer
in research.

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Yeah, it definitely changed my course,
but not not initially.

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So after that, as I mentioned
before, parents, both were,

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you know, college educated education
was extremely important in our family.

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So that was I was never really where
whether you were going to college, it was

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where were you going to go.

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And so unfortunately,
with my father's untimely death,

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at the age of 51, actually very young.

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51 very young.

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So but at that time,

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and because of that,
he actually never saw me graduate.

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So that was my at the end of the year
in high school, I went on

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not only finished high school,
I got a master's degree to PhD.

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And I'm
now the proud mother of two daughters

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who have each graduated from high school.

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But he was never there.

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But that initial senior
year of high school was one that I'm sure

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you know, you can imagine
still with a lot of different emotions

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for not only myself,
my oldest sister and my mother.

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And one of the things that became really,

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obvious, obvious to me early on was that
I didn't really have somebody to talk to

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about what I was feeling and experiencing
because my sister was older.

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She was, you know,
taking on some new responsibilities.

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My mother was really devastated.

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She literally met my dad
when she when they were in college and,

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and then got married.

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And so she never had it independent, like
this was her world when he passed away.

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And then that kind of threw me back
to this idea of,

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psychology and mental health.

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But my family and most of my community

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never talked about anything
about mental health.

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Certainly didn't think that, you know,
folks like that

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would go and see a counselor,
a therapist or psychologist.

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And so it really renewed my,

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my passion and interest in psychology.

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So that actually what I did,
I went to get my father's advice,

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probably for the first time
and the only time, you know, my life.

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And so I pursued a degree in psychology,

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thinking about,
you know, really trying to focus on

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how can we have more people
in mental health that look like me

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so that people like me would feel
comfortable going and having conversations

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about things that are really difficult,
including losing a parent or a loved one.

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What a wonderful story, doctor Baskin,
and I thank you so much

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for all you do, and we're honored
to have you in the city of Richmond.

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For folks who are just joining us,

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the new deputy Director of Research
at VCU Massey Comprehensive

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Cancer Center is my special guest
that's joining us on the show.

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We're going to talk more.

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And again, thank you so much
for sharing your story with us.

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I had you get now a deep and personal,

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I just want to know
because I think it's exciting.

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We're going to take a break

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and come on back and we're going to talk
about this population science.

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What is it as it relates to community
engagement and outreach?

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Stay close.

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This is Community Conversations:
The Black Health Winn’s podcast.

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Welcome back to Community Conversations.

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I am Miss Community Clovia.

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My very special guest
is the new Deputy Director

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of Research at VCU Massey
Comprehensive Cancer Center.

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Now we talked about your degree
in psychology, Doctor Monica Baskin.

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How are we going to transition now?

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We're ready to transition
into population sciences.

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What is it? Right.

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Yeah. Well,
population science is a big word.

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But what we're basically talking about
is trying to use a research

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and scientific method, to help
the health of the, of the community.

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And so that was a perfect segue for me

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from my degree and training and wanting
to help people with everyday life

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situations that might come up, 
to try to improve

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the overall health of individuals
that are experiencing a lot of,

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climate conditions and problems
like cancer.

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And so by combining those two things,
what I really found

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a really significant
home was in cancer research.

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So for a while,
I really didn't do research in cancer.

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I focused on other things like

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generally nutrition and physical activity
and weight management.

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But I had a wonderful mentor
of another cancer center director

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who's approached me about doing work,
particularly in the South,

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focusing on the higher rates of cancer
among African-Americans in particular.

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And so with that,
I thought, okay, this sounds great, but,

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you know, a lot of the problems, as you
mentioned before in our last segment,

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you know, people don't they shy away
when we start talking about that work.

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And so part of what I learned
is that it's important to sit and talk

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with people in the community before
trying to go out and develop a program.

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So I was able to focus on,

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my, my behavioral skills as a psychologist
to sit and talk with people

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first to understand their experiences,

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why they may be concerned about cancer
or why they may be fearful.

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What is their history, their family
history, their community history?

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To learn about that, that then bring that

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into the research
and the programs that I would lead.

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This is so amazing as only
you could have done when you pursued

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that degree in psychology,

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to be able to listen,
listen to other people's lived experience.

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And then once you listened
to their lived experience Dr.

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Baskin, that's when you were able
to incorporate the science

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and the research
with that community engagement?

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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So community engagement, again,
we use these fancy words,

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but that basically just means
that you are embedded and in partnership

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with the people
that you're trying to work with.

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And so by engaging, we talk about it's
a two way street.

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It's not just researchers
coming to communities

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and just telling them what to do or,
you know, how to act and so forth.

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It's researchers

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coming into communities and listening to
what the community is saying.

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And that engagement, that two way street,
that bi directional

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was what we call it,
communication is really, really critical.

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But it's beyond that as well,
because it is about sitting down

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hand-in-hand and devising program

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and and strategies that work together.

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So we we say we co-design it
with communities

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instead of working in communities,
we work with community.

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What's the impact of community engagement
and outreach in cancer research?

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Well, I'm I'm particularly biased.

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So I think it's everything.

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I think there is no way
that we get the fabulous new discoveries

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if we really don't take the time to think
about the communities we want to serve.

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And so I think it's everything I, I'm
probably not alone because the funding

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that we get from the National Institutes
of Health or the National Cancer Institute

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particular really focuses cancer centers
like ours

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to make sure that we are engaging
with communities, that we are listening,

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we are understanding
the unique needs that are in that area.

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And we are designing programs and

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and treatments and screenings
that are relevant for that community.

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So, for example,
we know that there are high

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rates of prostate cancer
and colorectal cancer,

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and lung cancer and breast cancer
in the greater Richmond area.

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And so those are some of the cancers
that we are really focused on.

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And it just so happens
that those are also cancers where we have

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fabulous, methods
to go in and screen for cancer.

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And that screening is really critical
because when you do screen,

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you're likely if you have cancer,
we're likely to catch it earlier

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when there's so many more options
so that people can live at longer

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life, as highest quality as possible.

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You go into a Richmond area,

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but you're going to be strategic
based on the area you're in.

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So, for example,
if you go into a rural area,

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you're going to switch
the conversation up.

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It's going to be pretty relative.

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But you want to understand what it is
you're dealing with in different regions.

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Is that how you do it Doctor Baskin?

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Absolutely.

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Because the the issues around access

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to that screening may be very different
depending on where you live in.

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Sometimes it's even in the city.

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So it's really important
to understand that.

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And so you don't create a program
that won't fit

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the needs of that community.

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But we absolutely we look at
the communities that we're serving here.

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We find, you know,
lots of statistics and data in terms of,

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you know, where are the

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what are the types of cancers
that are most prevalent in those areas.

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But we also look at, well,
where is their access?

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Do they have access to a facility
that's nearby

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that might be able to have this screening?

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And one of the things that we

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we really love, that we have a mobile
unit, that we can go to communities

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if they don't physically have that access,
for example, and provide education.

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And we can provide some,

00;15;08;26 - 00;15;11;26
some of the screenings
that may not require you to come in.

00;15;12;00 - 00;15;14;26
And then we can also talk
to community members and help them

00;15;14;26 - 00;15;18;14
get connected
if they need further, follow up and care.

00;15;18;25 - 00;15;22;19
How do you alter your strategy
depending on the community.

00;15;22;19 - 00;15;26;21
So we touched on it a little bit,
but I want us to go in-depth into it.

00;15;26;21 - 00;15;29;27
Say, for instance, Deep South,

00;15;29;27 - 00;15;32;27
rural areas
in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

00;15;32;29 - 00;15;35;25
And because I know, Dr.

00;15;35;25 - 00;15;39;00
Winn, he talks about this
and I know he's excited to have you there,

00;15;39;05 - 00;15;42;05
and how does he get to
that rural community

00;15;42;11 - 00;15;45;00
when the communication is broken?

00;15;45;00 - 00;15;46;05
How do we go out there?

00;15;46;05 - 00;15;49;18
How do we find those people in those areas
Doctor Baskin?

00;15;50;10 - 00;15;55;03
Yeah, I think that the models that
I've certainly used throughout my career,

00;15;55;03 - 00;15;58;11
and I know, Massey has used
these as well,

00;15;59;09 - 00;16;02;22
it's really defined,
you know, starting off with a few folks

00;16;02;22 - 00;16;06;28
in the community
that are already seen as leaders,

00;16;06;28 - 00;16;10;24
the people that everybody goes
to the information and find out

00;16;11;06 - 00;16;14;20
and seeing about talking
with those individuals first.

00;16;15;08 - 00;16;18;11
Then the other technique is to

00;16;18;22 - 00;16;22;14
then have that person talk about, well,
who are some others in this community

00;16;22;14 - 00;16;25;19
that we can bring on board
and so have them to start,

00;16;25;22 - 00;16;28;26
you know, in some conversations,
you know, not committing

00;16;28;26 - 00;16;32;03
to anything in particular,
but start to have dialog.

00;16;32;03 - 00;16;36;17
So, for example, the Massey,
the Facts and Faith Fridays is a great way

00;16;36;17 - 00;16;41;01
for people to start to get to know us
and and learn more about it.

00;16;41;10 - 00;16;42;13
And it's like anything

00;16;42;13 - 00;16;45;29
else is a relationship
with building that relationship over time,

00;16;46;09 - 00;16;46;27
so that you may

00;16;46;27 - 00;16;50;13
start off with a few people
and then that grows to a larger network.

00;16;50;23 - 00;16;54;13
And then, one of the strategies
I think that is really helpful,

00;16;54;13 - 00;16;56;05
especially in communities,

00;16;56;05 - 00;16;59;21
I tell you, you know, I'm
from I'm from the city, I'm a city girl.

00;16;59;28 - 00;17;05;14
So I don't speak the same language
as someone in the in, in a rural area.

00;17;05;28 - 00;17;06;12
So what

00;17;07;22 - 00;17;09;23
we, we get those folks on board,

00;17;09;23 - 00;17;14;04
they tell us how to talk, and then we also
can sometimes employ them.

00;17;14;11 - 00;17;16;03
And they are the ones that are going out

00;17;16;03 - 00;17;19;03
to have the messages
and delivering those messages there.

00;17;19;04 - 00;17;22;05
It doesn't always have to be,
you know, a doctor,

00;17;22;05 - 00;17;25;21
quote unquote, or somebody,
you know, from the university.

00;17;26;03 - 00;17;29;28
It can be another person, peer
to peer to explain,

00;17;29;29 - 00;17;32;29
hey, how important it is
to go and get this screening.

00;17;33;02 - 00;17;36;08
And so we educate
and we train some local community members

00;17;36;08 - 00;17;37;21
to deliver that message.

00;17;37;21 - 00;17;41;09
And I think that's a real powerful way
that we've been able to work in

00;17;41;09 - 00;17;42;16
some of those communities.

00;17;42;16 - 00;17;44;15
Well,
thank you so much for sharing with us.

00;17;44;15 - 00;17;49;13
Community engagement and outreach
is a science and doctor Monica Baskin

00;17;49;13 - 00;17;54;12
is the new Deputy Director of Research
at VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer Center.

00;17;54;12 - 00;17;57;06
We're going to do our wrap up,
and we're going to be closing out

00;17;57;06 - 00;18;00;12
right after this,
but we're going to talk a little bit about

00;18;00;12 - 00;18;04;04
increasing representation
and clinical trials.

00;18;04;09 - 00;18;05;10
Stay close.

00;18;05;10 - 00;18;09;25
This is Community Conversations,
the Black Health Winn’s podcast.

00;18;10;13 - 00;18;14;17
This is Community Conversations,
the Black Health Winn’s podcast.

00;18;14;26 - 00;18;18;14
I am Miss Community
Clovia with my very special guest,

00;18;18;14 - 00;18;21;20
the new Deputy Director of Research
at VCU Massey

00;18;21;20 - 00;18;24;29
Comprehensive Cancer Center, Doctor
Monica Baskin.

00;18;24;29 - 00;18;26;14
She shared her story with us.

00;18;26;14 - 00;18;31;03
We talked about advancing community
outreach and engagement, and

00;18;31;03 - 00;18;35;06
now we're going to talk about increasing
representation in clinical trials.

00;18;35;12 - 00;18;38;12
How does that come in, Doctor Baskin?

00;18;38;15 - 00;18;41;05
Well, obviously this is one of doctor

00;18;41;05 - 00;18;44;16
Rob Winn’s you know, real claims to fame

00;18;44;19 - 00;18;48;18
that he is making this issue

00;18;48;25 - 00;18;52;19
a major focus of conversation
in black communities.

00;18;53;02 - 00;18;56;02
And I think that that is so critical.

00;18;56;16 - 00;19;01;01
We've learned a lot
and had so many different discoveries

00;19;01;01 - 00;19;05;12
within cancer,
and people are living much, much longer

00;19;05;21 - 00;19;08;20
than they ever have
with a cancer diagnosis.

00;19;08;20 - 00;19;13;06
And we know that that could be improved
even more.

00;19;13;20 - 00;19;18;09
And the way we do
that is by making sure that everybody

00;19;18;15 - 00;19;21;15
is accessing clinical trials.

00;19;21;19 - 00;19;25;18
And before you say everything I know,
I know for a lot of people

00;19;25;28 - 00;19;30;05
that feels very scary
and they're not really convinced that

00;19;30;05 - 00;19;35;10
that's the way to go,
but let me assure you that clinical trials

00;19;35;21 - 00;19;40;00
that we have available in
cancer are often times

00;19;40;19 - 00;19;46;06
the the best choice for individuals where
traditional medications have not worked.

00;19;47;08 - 00;19;48;05
And it

00;19;48;05 - 00;19;52;01
certainly can and has the potential
to be helpful for people

00;19;52;01 - 00;19;55;14
who are experiencing cancer, 
and getting that care.

00;19;55;27 - 00;20;01;02
But it also can be even more valuable
to the people that come behind,

00;20;01;14 - 00;20;06;07
because we then know what medications
and treatments work for which group.

00;20;06;21 - 00;20;09;09
Right now, if we have trials

00;20;09;09 - 00;20;14;01
that have only a single population
in there, we know a lot about how to treat

00;20;14;03 - 00;20;18;11
the cancer in that population,
but it doesn't necessarily mean

00;20;18;12 - 00;20;22;05
that those same kinds of treatment
are going to work for everybody else.

00;20;22;08 - 00;20;25;25
So representation is really,
really important.

00;20;26;08 - 00;20;29;10
And that's an area
where the black community in particular

00;20;29;10 - 00;20;32;24
is not showing up
where I think we should be.

00;20;33;11 - 00;20;36;18
And I know that some of the concerns
and talking to community members is,

00;20;36;29 - 00;20;39;29
you know, about, well,
maybe I'm not going to get,

00;20;40;06 - 00;20;43;06
you know, the the drug that they think
is going to be helpful.

00;20;43;19 - 00;20;47;29
And what we know for sure is that
regardless of what you're going to get,

00;20;48;16 - 00;20;51;02
it's already gone under some review
to make sure

00;20;51;02 - 00;20;54;02
that it is safe enough
to try it out in humans.

00;20;54;04 - 00;20;58;16
And we know that there will be people
that will be checking and monitoring

00;20;58;21 - 00;21;03;29
your progress on a much more stringent
basis than if you were not on a trial.

00;21;04;03 - 00;21;07;18
And so I really think about this,
and I know Doctor

00;21;07;18 - 00;21;09;19
Winn and others in our cancer center,

00;21;09;19 - 00;21;12;23
we think about clinical trials
is an extension of your care.

00;21;13;06 - 00;21;14;20
It is not something separate.

00;21;14;20 - 00;21;17;19
But everybody who's who's eligible,

00;21;17;22 - 00;21;22;11
we think should be offered
and should consider a clinical trial.

00;21;22;17 - 00;21;24;21
Thank you again for breaking it down.

00;21;24;21 - 00;21;27;21
I love it, keeping these conversations
simplistic.

00;21;28;01 - 00;21;32;00
Doctor Monica Baskin is on the show
because whatever Doctor Winn and I,

00;21;32;01 - 00;21;33;02
we're talking about, it.

00;21;33;02 - 00;21;36;20
It's like,
oh yeah, but Doctor Baskin folks

00;21;36;20 - 00;21;40;27
got to understand, years ago
there wasn't even a painkiller.

00;21;41;07 - 00;21;42;11
So then when you think about

00;21;42;11 - 00;21;46;21
some of the meds that you have now,
other folks did clinical trials.

00;21;46;21 - 00;21;49;21
So you're able to relieve
that headache, right?

00;21;50;01 - 00;21;51;24
Absolutely, absolutely.

00;21;51;24 - 00;21;54;09
There are a lot of things,
but it's not not all

00;21;54;09 - 00;21;56;05
the trials are even about medication.

00;21;56;05 - 00;21;59;08
So some of the trials have been about,
you know,

00;21;59;11 - 00;22;03;23
mammograms or other kinds of ways
that we can look for cancer

00;22;04;00 - 00;22;07;15
or there other trials
that may be about physical activity.

00;22;07;21 - 00;22;11;28
So there are lots of different types
of clinical trials that are available.

00;22;12;06 - 00;22;15;06
And I just encourage people
to have that conversation.

00;22;15;11 - 00;22;18;23
If your clinical team, your doctors don't
bring it up, you bring it up,

00;22;19;06 - 00;22;22;23
have them to talk to you
about a clinical trial and explain it

00;22;22;23 - 00;22;24;19
and make sure you understand it.

00;22;24;19 - 00;22;27;29
And if you need to bring a family member
or friend with you into the room

00;22;27;29 - 00;22;31;04
to have that conversation,
I absolutely encourage you to do that.

00;22;31;05 - 00;22;35;16
You should have all of the wealth
of the tools that we have available

00;22;35;25 - 00;22;38;18
to treat cancer, to screen for cancer.

00;22;38;18 - 00;22;42;11
And so clinical trials is just one more of
those tools that we have in our toolkit.

00;22;42;19 - 00;22;44;11
Well, thank you so much for this.

00;22;44;11 - 00;22;45;18
This has been a wonderful show.

00;22;45;18 - 00;22;49;01
I'm going to make sure I tell Doctor
Winn about this show.

00;22;49;10 - 00;22;53;03
New Deputy Director of Research
at VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer

00;22;53;03 - 00;22;56;20
Center, Doctor
Monica Baskin has been my guest.

00;22;56;20 - 00;23;01;00
And she talked about community engagement
and how outreach is a science.

00;23;01;05 - 00;23;05;11
And if you want to know more about her
work and the work as a whole of the VCU

00;23;05;11 - 00;23;11;21
Massey Comprehensive Cancer Center,
just go to Massey Cancer Center dot org.

00;23;11;28 - 00;23;14;28
That's Massey Cancer Center dot org.

00;23;15;03 - 00;23;18;28
Doctor Monica Baskin, thank you so much
for this wealth of information.

00;23;19;06 - 00;23;20;12
Thank you so much.

00;23;20;12 - 00;23;22;00
It's been a pleasure.