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I’m Dr. Rob Winn and you're listening
to Real Cancer Talk

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from VCU Massey
Comprehensive Cancer Center.

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I am Community Clo.

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So excited about this show.

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KISS FM's Black Health Wins Podcast

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I am Miss Community Clovia, your hostess.

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This is a show of no copays,
no white coats.

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My special guest joining me on the show.

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You know, we call him the head doc.

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He's in a win win situation

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and he's the lung doctor, Doctor
Robert Winn, what's up man?

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And always good when I'm with you Sister
Clo, you know that 24 ways to tomorrow.

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That's what I'm talking about.

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So we have some special guests joining us.

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It's going to be a deep show, so we want
everybody to turn us all the way up.

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Doctor
Jordyn Griffin is a pediatric hematologist

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oncologist at VCU Massey
Comprehensive Cancer Center

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and the Children's
Hospital of Richmond at VCU.

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What's up, Doctor Jordyn? Hi. How are you?

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I'm excited to be here.
Thanks for having me today.

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Yeah, I'm glad you're here, too.

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And Doctor Iain Morgan is a researcher,
and we really need that.

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With the VCU Massey
Comprehensive Cancer Center, chair

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of the Philips Institute for Oral Health
Research at VCU School of Dentistry.

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Doctor Iain Morgan.
How are you doing? I'm doing good.

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Great to be with you today.
Thanks for having me.

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Looking forward to the conversation.

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Well, I'm interested in this because we're
going to be talking about back to school

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when we think about back to school.

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We're thinking about back to school
clothes,

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what you're going to wear your physicals,
but rarely do we talk about back

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to school and HPV vaccination
for adolescents and young adult cancers.

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So Doctor Winn, give us an overview
of what we're going to talk about today.

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Pretty much.

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Yeah I think that we have both with Doctor
Morgan and Doctor Griffin.

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They're going to lay out for you.

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We've you know, how does one get HPV.

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What is HPV.

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How does it make you sick.

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But here's what I want to say.

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It's generally an infection.

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It's something that, to be quite honest
with you, that the, the,

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over time used to lead to things

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like head and neck cancers or,
you know, cancers of the of the throat.

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It would also lead
to cancers of the cervix.

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That's
where we really kind of got this right.

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The cervical cancer thing.

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We made that connection between HPV
and cervical cancer a while ago.

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And the interesting thing is,
as we start thinking about HPV and kids,

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this is the one cancer

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that we could potentially prevent
from ever happening.

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So we have both vaccines
that we can give you to prevent

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you from ever getting the cancer.

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But the reality is
we also have amazing treatments.

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So if you do have it and so, you know,
I think, you know, between Doctor Morgan

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and Doctor Griffin, what I love about what
they're going to be able to do today

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is to really set out the basic principles
and blocking the tackling of what HPV is.

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Why human papillomavirus,
why we should be, why we should know it.

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But we should really talk about the fact
that this is a cancer that can be

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this is a virus that can cause cancer,
that can be treated if you can treat,

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but you also have ways of preventing.

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And that's why
I'm excited about this conversation today.

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And as you know, in our population,
when you talk about kids,

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the most at risk kids are the
most kids are the,

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you know, typically African-Americans
are living in rural areas

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or Latino kids and, you know, people
coming from, you know, poorer areas.

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So we really want to go to the community
and let them know that

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the science that we've obtained over
the last, you know, X, you know, few years

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and decades is now real, in their lives.

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And to be able to prevent the cancer
and to treat it if you do.

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Thank you, Doctor Winn. And what else?

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Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Doctor Iain. So

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yeah, the one thing I would add to that,

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Rob, is that, I mean, people
don't realize that HPV is a huge number.

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It causes 5% of all cancers.

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So 1 in 20 people who get cancer,
there will be an HIV related cancer.

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And that puts into context the, you know,
prevention could be fantastic here.

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So just wanted to add that to Rob's
comments.

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And and Doctor Iain feel free to jump in
at any time as the researcher.

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So so Doctor Jordyn, what is HPV?

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Yeah, HPV is a virus.

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And I'm going to let Doctor
Morgan talk a little bit about it.

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But it is a virus.

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That as we have said can cause cancers.

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And I think the really exciting thing
is that it's preventable.

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It's typically prevented
by getting two vaccines.

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Kids are eligible
to start at the age of nine.

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We typically start thinking about it
between the ages of 11 and 12,

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and it's a two dose series.

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And so, you just have to remember
six months apart to come in

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and ask your pediatrician, right, that,
hey, I need to get my HPV vaccine,

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along with my flu vaccine
and my Covid vaccine and everything else.

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If you just add it to that repertoire,
you get two shots

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and then you're really protected
against this virus.

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That we know, as we said,
that can cause cancer.

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So while everybody else is thinking about
what kind of book bag I'm going to get

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or what kind of Nike tennis shoes
I want to go for,

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you know,
start my fourth and fifth grade of school.

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I think some of us are also thinking about
how can we protect these kids,

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as they go back into that school arena.

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That was good, Doctor Jordyn.

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About 13 million Americans,
including teens,

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become infected each year.

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They do.

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And, Doctor Morgan, you know,
I want to talk to you a little bit.

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We had a conversation earlier about,

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kind of the stigma around
how it gets infected, right?

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That this is a virus
that can be sexually transmitted.

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And I'm going to let Doctor Morgan

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kind of chime in there
because there's a stigma around that.

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But I think it's something

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that we have to talk about
because our kids are talking about it.

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13 million kids a year are getting that.

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That means they're up to something
that we can't

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just close our eyes
and pretend it's not happening.

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Right.

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Yeah, and I'm glad you said that
because some parents,

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you know, back in the day, parents
close their eyes off from everything.

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If you said the three letter word sex.

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Oh, my God. And it's.

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And it's not promoting any sex,
but we have to deal

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with what our kids are encountering.

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So, Doctor Iain, please help us with this
with your findings through your research.

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Yeah.

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I think the follow up on the vaccine angle
and one of the things

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that people struggle to understand is,
why can't you just wait to get the vaccine

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when you're older, you know, why can't I
wait till my my kid is 18 or 19?

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And one of the problems with that
is that once the virus is inside of you,

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then it infects your cells
and it stays with you.

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What the vaccine does is it
generates antibodies to the virus,

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actually kills it
before it gets inside of your cells.

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So that's why you have to get the vaccine
before you can have

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intimate contact with somebody
where the virus might be passed on.

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So that makes sense.

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It's very important
that you get vaccinated prior

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to intimate contact, because that's
the only way that you can be protected.

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Alright Doctor Winn.

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I was going to say that was hot like fire.

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That point you just made,
as I said, hot like fire.

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Yeah, I definitely did,
because, you know, that point about

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because two things that Doctor
Morgan said that really I think

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can be confusing in the community,
but let's actually make it less confusing.

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Getting the vaccine and getting HPV does
not actually make you more promiscuous.

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So let's stop that.

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That's a lie.
Oh that's good. Straight up a lie.

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That's a crazy lie.

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In fact we even got data to do it.

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And I know you know I know

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people talk about alternative facts
but there ain't no alternative facts

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on this one.

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It does not promote promiscuity
or early sex.

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Number two you get the vaccine before

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you actually have intimate contact
because it works best when you do that.

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Now the reality is
we'll get into some other nuances.

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But those two things that the getting
the vaccine is not going to cause

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you all of a sudden to be, you know,
you know,

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get out there running around all wild,
you know, all buck wild.

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Well, it does not.

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And number two,
you need to get it to your kids

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before they are aware, right, of what
intimacy looks like in their involved in.

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And so, Doctor Morgan,
my hat's off to you.

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Thank you for bringing up that point
because sometimes

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I'm talking HPV that gets missed.

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And I'm going to say

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I as the aunt of two wonderful children
who are coming into this age, my sister

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says, well, how am I supposed to explain
to them what this vaccine is for?

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And I said, you know, you don't have to.

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You just have to call it
the cancer vaccine.

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You don't have to tell the nine year
old, the 11 year old or the 12 year old

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that this is a vaccine to prevent
a often sexually transmitted virus, right?

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Just call it the vaccine.
That's going to help prevent cancer.

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And I think it is good
just that light a little bit.

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It makes it a lot less scary
to give it to your nine, ten, 11 year,

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12 year old kid.

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Whereas if we put it in context
of we're trying to do this early

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to prevent the virus
and before you've had intimate contact,

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no one wants to think about that
in front of their kiddos.

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But if you tell them, hey, this is going
to prevent cancer, which is what it does,

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and you call it the cancer
prevention vaccine, it seems a lot easier

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and a lot of people
are a lot more readily willing.

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You know, my family included, to get
that vaccine and to sign their kids up.

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Doctor Jordyn Griffin, that was great.

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We want to prevent cancer.

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So my advice to you is to take this cancer
vaccine. Wow.

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Only two doses are needed

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if the first dose is given
before a person's 15th birthday.

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Now we're talking about this.

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If folks are just joining us back
to school.

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HPV vaccine, adult and young adult
cancers, the Black Health Wins podcast.

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We are in a win win situation.

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Now we're talking about back

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to school HPV vaccine adolescence
and young adult cancers.

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But wait, we want you to turn us
all the way up because we have the Doctor

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Jordyn Griffin, pediatrician, hematologist
oncologist with VCU Massey Comprehensive

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Cancer Center and the Children's
Hospital of Richmond at VCU.

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And we also have Doctor Iain Morgan,
researcher

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with VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer
Center chair for the Philips

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Institute for Oral Health
Research at VCU School of Dentistry.

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So we talked about some of the symptoms.

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We talked about the great numbers of teens
and young adults with HPV.

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Now, Doctor
Jordyn, let's talk about some of the types

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of cancers connected to the HPV virus.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I think everybody when they think of HPV
driven cancers thinks about them.

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What is presumed
to be the most common type

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of cancer caused by HPV,
which is cervical cancer.

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However, as Doctor Morgan can tell you,
it's actually more common in men

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leading to head and neck
cancers of the mouth and of the throat,

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as I'm sure he can tell you
a little bit about.

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Yes, Doctor Iain. Yeah.

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So this has been an epidemic over
the past generation, and there's been

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a huge increase in human
papillomavirus related oral cancers,

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and they happen in the tonsils

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and the back of the back of the tongue,
back of the throat.

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And this epidemic is really exposed
4 to 1 man to women ratio.

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So it's men are really getting this
disease much more frequently than women.

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And again,

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when we think

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about vaccinating and adolescents,
we think always of protecting against

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cervical cancer
when the vaccine was first rolled out.

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But I think it's critical for people
to realize that vaccinating the boys

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is equally important.

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Because there are more men now

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who suffer from oral fringe
oral cancers, HPV, oral

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cancers in the US, and there are women
who get several cancers.

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And one of the reasons for that
is there's no screening.

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So if you go for a smear,
which hopefully women do,

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then you can pick up
pre cancerous lesions that can be treated.

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But you cannot do that in the oral cavity.

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So there's nothing we can do
to stop this epidemic at the moment.

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No diagnostics.

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The best thing we can do
is vaccinate our children.

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Yeah. You heard that from a researcher.

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And and I know you're still in the lab
looking at more cures for this.

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So we can stop it, but the prevention is
what's so important to us right now.

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So for all of the folks who are listening,
who are feeling afraid at this point,

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Doctor Winn, Doctor Jordyn,

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if you would like to jump in,
what about the teen or young adult living

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with HPV now, what words of encouragement
do we have for them?

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Yeah, I know that's come and find us.

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I know it's intimidating,

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and I know nobody wants to walk
into the doctor's office.

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Even if you don't have HPV,
you just think you might or some other

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sexually transmitted infection
or some kind of lump or bump

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that you think could be cancer,
or could even be an HPV driven cancer.

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Come and find us.

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I know that we seem intimidating
with all of our billboards

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and Massey health signs everywhere,
but we are here to help.

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I think there are support
groups that can be helpful and connect

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other teens and emerging adults
and young adults to, peers

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that have HPV or who's undergone treatment
for an HPV driven cancer.

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There are all of us here at VCU and Massey

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who want to help
be a part of this health journey.

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You are not too far gone.
You are not alone.

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We are here to walk through
that journey with you.

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You just got to walk in our doors, right?

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And even if you say, oh my gosh,
I've had HPV, I can't get that vaccine.

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You certainly can.

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There's different types of the HPV virus,

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and that vaccine protects
against a bunch of different types.

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So even if you've had one,
we want to protect you from the rest.

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So, I understand the fear.

00;13;20;20 - 00;13;23;23
I appreciate the fear,
but I think the most important

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thing you can do is come see a doctor,
come see a nurse, come

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see whomever you're comfortable
with, and walk in our doors

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so that we can help connect you
not only to the treatment that you need

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for that HPV driven cancer,
the treatment you need for that HPV.

00;13;41;03 - 00;13;43;17
But hope you prevent
anything else in the future.

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They got a long way to live, right?

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When you're just a teenager
or a young adult.

00;13;47;21 - 00;13;50;00
And so don't write yourself off yet.

00;13;50;00 - 00;13;51;04
Come down and come see us.

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We've got tons of programs at VCU
that are here to help.

00;13;54;07 - 00;13;55;00
Doctor Jordyn.

00;13;55;00 - 00;13;59;08
Now, this includes when we're talking
about adolescents and young adults.

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We are talking
people between the age of 15 to 39.

00;14;05;08 - 00;14;05;18
Yeah.

00;14;05;18 - 00;14;08;05
So 15 to 39 is a huge age group. Right.

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And so I kind of try to chunk it down
into the adolescent group

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that kind of 15
to 18 to maybe 15 to 21, 22.

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And then our emerging adults. Right.

00;14;17;19 - 00;14;20;07
These are people
who are just trying on adulthood.

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They're living on their own
for the first time.

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They're trying to get their first job,
22 to

00;14;25;12 - 00;14;30;25
about 26, 27 and then kind of
that young adult from 27 to 39.

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And we have programs here at VCU
and the Children's Hospital of Richmond.

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We all partner together

00;14;36;10 - 00;14;39;11
to make sure we take care of that
whole spectrum of patients.

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And any of these HPV driven cancers,
whether it's cervical cancers,

00;14;43;18 - 00;14;47;27
whether it's oral cancers, whether it's
penile cancers, we have experts here

00;14;47;27 - 00;14;52;11
that are going to take care of all of that
through, across all of those age ranges.

00;14;53;06 - 00;14;55;16
This is very important here.

00;14;55;16 - 00;14;58;16
Now, Doctor Jordyn,
can we talk about some of the treatments

00;14;58;25 - 00;15;01;02
for those types of cancer.

00;15;01;02 - 00;15;02;03
Absolutely.

00;15;02;03 - 00;15;06;19
And so in terms of
and I know I'll let Doctor Morgan

00;15;06;19 - 00;15;10;08
speak about some of the oral treatments
and that's his area of expertise.

00;15;10;08 - 00;15;14;17
But for some of the cervical cancers, 
some of them,

00;15;14;19 - 00;15;17;19
you know, the hope is, as he was saying,
if you get your pap smear

00;15;17;19 - 00;15;20;29
and we can catch it early,
sometimes we just need to remove

00;15;21;07 - 00;15;24;09
that area, the infected
kind of on the cervical tissue.

00;15;24;09 - 00;15;28;07
And so we're just able to go in
and do a quick procedure and remove that.

00;15;28;14 - 00;15;31;00
And it's way easier than people think.

00;15;31;00 - 00;15;33;20
It sounds intimidating.
It's a scary area of the body.

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But sometimes if we if caught early and

00;15;37;14 - 00;15;40;24
pap smear screenings are done,
we can treat it pretty easily.

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Doctor Griffin, I got a quick question.

00;15;43;05 - 00;15;44;18
So you talked about treatment,

00;15;44;18 - 00;15;48;05
but can you have a normal, regular,
full life after all these treatments?

00;15;48;21 - 00;15;50;26
Absolutely. That is my goal.

00;15;50;26 - 00;15;54;28
I tell all of my patients
that I am just one part or one

00;15;54;28 - 00;15;57;29
chapter of their story,
and they are a big long story

00;15;57;29 - 00;16;00;28
book with multiple chapters,
and we are just one part.

00;16;00;28 - 00;16;03;28
I would even tell you
that you can probably have a normal life

00;16;04;01 - 00;16;05;11
during these treatments.

00;16;05;11 - 00;16;08;16
We want you to still be
a successful member

00;16;08;16 - 00;16;11;16
of your job or your classroom.

00;16;11;17 - 00;16;15;15
If you're still in school,
we want you to still be with your peers

00;16;15;15 - 00;16;19;03
and your friends and going to the mall
and the movies and all of those things.

00;16;19;03 - 00;16;23;23
This is just a small part of your story
and not your whole story.

00;16;24;06 - 00;16;25;20
Doctor Griffin thank you.

00;16;25;20 - 00;16;27;12
Doctor Winn when we said

00;16;27;12 - 00;16;31;27
we're not talking about sex,
we're not promoting sex at all.

00;16;32;01 - 00;16;35;01
We are talking about the cancers
that are associated.

00;16;35;03 - 00;16;38;17
If we do not get the HPV vaccine.

00;16;38;29 - 00;16;41;15
And also I want I want to point out.

00;16;41;15 - 00;16;41;27
Yeah.

00;16;41;27 - 00;16;44;08
Also, I want to point out to you,

00;16;44;08 - 00;16;47;20
when it comes to black and brown people,
when we talk about research

00;16;47;20 - 00;16;50;27
in the science, we go into the guinea
pig mode.

00;16;51;01 - 00;16;52;19
Can you address that?

00;16;52;19 - 00;16;54;09
Yeah. I ain't no guinea pig research.

00;16;54;09 - 00;16;57;28
I mean, there's you know what I love
about research, in my lifetime,

00;16;58;04 - 00;17;02;24
because of the work that people like,
Doctor Morgan, Doctor Griffin,

00;17;02;24 - 00;17;06;15
and many of the people that work at Massey
and the results of their work,

00;17;06;23 - 00;17;10;24
we now know that cancers
people are living more

00;17;10;24 - 00;17;14;12
with, living more with cancers
are dying from it for the first time ever.

00;17;15;04 - 00;17;17;17
You know, for example,
I was going to tell you with lung cancer.

00;17;17;17 - 00;17;20;17
Yeah, at 170,000 deaths back in 1994,

00;17;20;17 - 00;17;23;17
a year in US, that's down to 120.

00;17;23;26 - 00;17;26;16
So this talk about what we know

00;17;26;16 - 00;17;30;00
about HPV, the various strains of HPV,

00;17;30;08 - 00;17;34;14
how the HPV is blocked, young,
you know, will reduce your risk

00;17;34;14 - 00;17;35;29
of actually having head and neck

00;17;35;29 - 00;17;39;02
cancer, cervical cancers
and other things is not fanciful.

00;17;39;07 - 00;17;40;09
It's real.

00;17;40;09 - 00;17;43;04
And the problems that I have
with most of the community

00;17;43;04 - 00;17;47;26
is that when you're faced with real data,
with real science, that's been validated,

00;17;47;29 - 00;17;52;01
but you go to doctor TikTok and Doctor
Google, sometimes you just get more

00;17;52;01 - 00;17;55;29
confused as opposed
to having a better understanding.

00;17;55;29 - 00;17;58;25
So what I'm going to say is, please,

00;17;58;25 - 00;18;02;04
there are definitely good sources
of this information.

00;18;02;24 - 00;18;07;06
The American Cancer Society has a web page
that's a very trusted source,

00;18;07;14 - 00;18;10;05
as well as the web pages
that you can have from VCU.

00;18;10;05 - 00;18;10;26
Massey.

00;18;10;26 - 00;18;14;23
But my goal is to make sure
that we give you the best information.

00;18;14;23 - 00;18;15;25
No Trickeration.

00;18;15;25 - 00;18;18;06
That's information that we actually have.

00;18;18;06 - 00;18;21;26
And this really is the best information
that cervical cancer

00;18;22;05 - 00;18;27;14
relative to people dying now
relative to 1972 82, radically different

00;18;27;17 - 00;18;30;24
as a result of the science
that's now made its way to the medicine

00;18;31;01 - 00;18;34;19
that now makes its way to the clinics
of Doctor Griffin and other people.

00;18;34;19 - 00;18;36;20
So we are actually doing it.

00;18;36;20 - 00;18;40;27
And the saddest part about it is that no
one should have to die from head

00;18;40;27 - 00;18;42;14
to neck or cervical cancer.

00;18;42;14 - 00;18;45;14
And they won't with Massey, definitely,

00;18;45;17 - 00;18;49;15
but more information
can go to MasseyCancercCenter.org.

00;18;49;23 - 00;18;53;25
That's MasseyCancerCenter.org.

00;18;54;05 - 00;18;54;28
This is great stuff.

00;18;54;28 - 00;18;58;04
So that's how you can sum it up
I know you want to add some more to it

00;18;58;13 - 00;19;00;11
and help it all the way up
Doctor Robert Winn.

00;19;00;11 - 00;19;03;02
You know how it goes.

00;19;03;02 - 00;19;06;18
I think that at this point I think that's
going to take some from the Dixie Chicks.

00;19;06;18 - 00;19;09;17
You know, I've got Dixie Chicks.
I used to go hip hop, I don't know.

00;19;09;17 - 00;19;12;08
Okay, okay. Dixie chicks right.

00;19;12;08 - 00;19;13;00
Check this out.

00;19;13;00 - 00;19;14;00
You remember that one song they had,
was all

00;19;14;00 - 00;19;16;16
they had, that they hoped
children were watching us. Watch you guys.

00;19;16;16 - 00;19;18;25
Yeah. Put their trust in us.

00;19;18;25 - 00;19;20;21
They're going to be like us.

00;19;20;21 - 00;19;23;17
So let's learn from our history
and do it differently.

00;19;23;17 - 00;19;27;01
And so what I want to learn to
the parent is let's do things differently.

00;19;27;01 - 00;19;28;11
Let's make sure that is said.

00;19;28;11 - 00;19;30;24
The old days are saying, oh,
we ain't going to take this.

00;19;30;24 - 00;19;31;23
We don't need this,

00;19;31;23 - 00;19;34;22
that we actually really focus,
that the children are our future.

00;19;34;27 - 00;19;38;03
And for that to happen with a future
without cancer,

00;19;38;15 - 00;19;43;01
please get and consider getting your kids
if they're not being vaccinated for HPV.

00;19;43;04 - 00;19;45;25
Let's make that happen. Well,
that's how we going to sum it up.

00;19;45;25 - 00;19;49;22
Doctor Robert Winn with the VCU Massey
Comprehensive Cancer

00;19;49;22 - 00;19;52;22
Center, Doctor Jordyn Griffin and Doctor
Iain Morgan.

00;19;52;25 - 00;19;57;25
What a great show I am Community Clo.