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I'm Dr.

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Rob Winn and you're listening
to Real Cancer Talk

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from VCU Massey
Comprehensive Cancer Center.

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I am miss Community Clovia.

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Welcoming
you to the Black Health Wins Podcast

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and my very special guest
joining me on the show.

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He is the director. Too sweet to be sour.

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The VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer
Center.

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Doctor Robert Winn, how are you?

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Sister Clo,
whenever I'm with you, I'm good. Wow.

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And you know,
I love this outreach and engagement.

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And folks are like, okay,

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talking about the Black Health
Wins podcast outreach and engagement.

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Well, we have a very special guest
joining us on the show.

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And that topic is going to be about
cancer prevention and screenings.

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The only way we can do that is to be out

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where the people are,
and that is in the community.

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Director of the Division of Cancer
Prevention and Control

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in the Department of Medicine
at Ohio State University.

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She is a Marion Rowley Chair,
cancer research Doctor Electra Paskett.

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How are you? I'm well this morning.

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Thank you so much for inviting me to join
you all.

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And I don't want to leave out
all of your accolades

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because we can Google
you all across the world and we got you.

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Now we're talking about cancer prevention
and screenings.

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How do we go from cancer
prevention and screenings, Dr.

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Paskett,
with this outreach and engagement?

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How do we bridge that gap.

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Outreach into the communities,
and we're talking

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about all communities,
every single community.

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And we go and we go to the community

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and we speak to them in their language,
at their comfort places

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like churches, laundromats,
wherever we need to go.

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And we engage them and we engage them

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in, understanding
how they can prevent cancer,

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how they can engage in cancer

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screening exams that can save their lives.

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And we also doing that we also bring

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some of the screening tests right to them,

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because sometimes they can't get

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to, the, the facilities
or where they live.

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They don't have facilities.

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And one other thing.

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We also help women

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qualify for the Breast and Cervical Cancer
early detection program,

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which will pay for their breast
and cervical cancer screenings,

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and also follow up
if they have any, abnormals

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or any lumps or bumps
or anything found on their test.

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So yes, that's,
that's sort of what, what we do.

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And as I mentioned before,
you did a breakdown of this.

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You have to go to where the people are.

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And we're talking all people
because if we get the right

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communication to them,
that is fitting to them.

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They'll be more apt to trust.

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Have you seen that when you're out
in the community, Doctor Paskett?

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Oh, definitely. Definitely.

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We we work,
as I said, with all communities,

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and you have to develop that trust before
you can really go and make a difference.

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And the way we develop trust is we go in

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with trusted members
of each of their respective communities.

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And, 
and then they, they, they vouch for us.

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And then as we work in the community
and then we they see the community sees

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why we're there and what we're doing,
then we have ourselves developed trust.

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Dr. Paskett,
thank you so much for being here.

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Doctor Winn you always do you do it big.

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You always hit it out the park.

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And we just talking about some of the data
from the American Cancer Society.

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But we're making strides, right Doctor
Winn, when it comes to cancer mortality.

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You know.

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And by the way, Doctor
Paskett is not going to brag on herself.

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So, let me just do. Yeah. Please do. Okay.

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And it's important that people know
that we do things that I think

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and, in the United States,
that we literally just take for granted.

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And I want to start this year off
by sort of saying that every segment that

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we do, sister Chloe,
I want to remind people

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that some of the things
that they have benefited

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from came from people
who actually had to have the idea

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and who had to put the work,

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blood, sweat and tears and etcetera
all up in it to make it happen.

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So let me just give a shout out
to Doctor Paskett because the reality

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is this whole concept of outreach
and engagement makes sense.

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But it hadn't always been the case
with many of the cancer centers

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around the United States.

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And so I want to give her credit,
along with a number of other people,

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for really, understanding that knowledge
alone is great, but knowledge

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that doesn't apply to people,
you know, is not as great, by the way.

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As a result of that
as prevention screening.

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Let me just tell you, in the last
30 years,

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we reached the peak of cancer
deaths in the 1990s.

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From the 1990s to now, 2024,

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we have 34% fewer

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people within the United States
dying from cancer.

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I’ll say that again.

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Because sometime
we get all trapped up at the doctor

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trying to make money,
and we get all up into...

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They got the cure. Hold up.

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34% Fewer

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people are dying from cancer
than 30 years ago.

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Now, why is that?

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Well, wait.

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I mean, I want to jump to another point
because we always say,

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well, it's for them,
but not for us. Hold up.

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In the 1990s,
if you looked at the overall death

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rates between blacks and whites,
I was about a 33% difference.

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Come on now, quit playing.

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It's now down to 11%.

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Why did that happen?

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Did it happen because everybody
was actually eating more kale

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and taking grass shots?

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I don't think so.

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It happened because of a couple things.

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One is that we started really thinking
about things like the mammography

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and screening and colorectal screening
and it's been people like community based

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participatory researchers
and other people like Doctor Paskett, get

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who sort of said,
how do we get more people screened.

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It's also then
because the science has come up with,

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you know, new medicines that we didn’t
have 40, 50 years ago, like,

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you know, looking at breast cancer
with stage four women, advanced stages

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and thinking, we got a drug for you,
or advanced lung cancer saying,

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you know, we can use your immune system

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through immunotherapy
and we can rock this.

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So what I'm saying is
we need to stop telling the lie.

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Yeah, That we have, as a result
of all of our efforts,

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from the people who give their little,
you know, $0.01 to $1 to $10,000 to cancer

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research, to helping out a hospital, to
doing whatever we're doing with survivors.

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We have more people
living with cancer to die from it

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because the science is working,
and not just because of the medicines,

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but because of outreach and engagement.
So I just want to put that out there.

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Oh that's good Doctor Winn.

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And I think it's very important
for people to know,

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because a lot of times
when it comes to black and brown folks,

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whenever you start talking
about a cancer diagnosis,

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treatment or prevention,
for some odd reason

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they don't feel that it applies to them
based on what others have said.

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So we serve notice on all of that
with the Black Health Wins podcast.

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That is not true.

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Folks are living with cancer
regardless of your race.

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And so we want to get more people.

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And that's why it's so important
to have Doctor Paskett on.

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She said you know what we want
prevention and screenings for cancer.

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Guess what? Let's go to the laundromat.

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Let's go to where the people are gathering
to take that message.

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And I think that's pretty powerful.

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And that all plays into that 34%

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of people living
and not dying from cancer.

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So great job to you, Doctor
Paskett and Doctor Winn,

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because in the words of you,

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the science is still out,
right, Doctor Winn?

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The science is still out,
I, you know, the science is still out.

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And you know what I always feel better
because,

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you know, outside of the Ohio State
beat Notre Dame.

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But we ain't going to talk about that
today.

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That’s my friend, Dr. Paskett.

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Outside.

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Outside of that, She’s our friend.

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But outside of that what I have to say
is that her work and others like her

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who really have said it's not just enough
to do the outreach and engage with

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you also have to be able to,
just like any other good reason,

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understand
and and bring forth new knowledge.

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And I just, you know,
my hat's off to what she and

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folks like Bob Hyde and Bob Crowell and,
you know, Henry Fiorino

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know there's a bunch of giants and,
you know, people like, you know,

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you know, Doctor H.P.

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Freeman, you know,
Harold P. Freeman up in New York.

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These people really understood that
in addition to the medicine,

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it needed to sort of
make sure it got to communities.

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And they and they've been coming up
with ways that I've just been amazed and,

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just amazed by all my life.

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Yeah, this is good stuff.

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Now, when it comes to cancer
prevention and screenings,

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we have to talk about clinical
trials, too.

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We're going to take a break

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and come on back and Doctor Paskett, she's
going to give us her personal testimony

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and why clinical trials were so important
to her with the cancer research

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as it relates to outreach and engagement.

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I am Community Clo. Stay close.

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Welcome back to Community Conversations,
the Black Health Wins Podcast.

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My special guest are on the show

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and we're talking about cancer prevention
and screenings.

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Doctor Electra Paskett is Marion N.

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Rowley Chair Cancer Research.

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And Doctor Robert
Winn is the director of the VCU Massey

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Comprehensive Cancer Center.

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Now Doctor Paskett
I want to talk about your impact in cancer

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research, clinical trials, and as it
relates again to outreach and engagement.

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Let's start there. Sure. So,

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you know, I started

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my career at, Wake Forest University

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in, North Carolina,

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and this in the in the early 1990s,
we were funded, to do

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one of the first studies,
that worked in the low income

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housing communities in Winston-Salem,
in Greensboro, North Carolina, to increase

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breast and cervical cancer screening
in the residents of those communities.

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And so we developed a program

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that focused on going into the woman's
homes, having classes there

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in the communities, as well as in
the Federally Qualified Health Center.

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And we significantly improved
the uptake of breast

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and cervical cancer
screening among this population.

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And when,
when it was time to leave at that time,

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you know, we didn't have this thing
called community outreach and engagement,

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which gave us some extra money
to keep things going.

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We we said to the health department
here, here's the here's the manual, here's

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how to do it, here's all the fliers,
here's all the class material, everything.

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And they said, well, thank you very much.

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But we don't have the time.

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And at the same, at the same time,

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the women in the housing communities,
they were in tears because we were leaving

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and they said, no one has ever come to us
before and helped us.

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And, you know, we would help them
go get their mammograms.

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We found out they didn't even know
how to schedule a mammogram.

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And so we we educated on all of that
right there in their community.

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So now with, the, the,

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community and outreach and engagement

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mandate that the cancer centers have,

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we now have staff

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who won’t helicopter
in and out of communities.

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We are there to stay, 
and we will take all the information

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that is gleaned from science
and from research,

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and we will, transform it
and bring it into the community

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in a manner
that is understandable to the community

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if we need to translate it
into a different language, we will.

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And, and that is sort of,

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how community outreach and engagement

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really makes an impact
by taking the research findings

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so we know that work
and bringing them to the communities

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in the community in a way
that each community can understand.

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And, you know, since then, as Doctor
Winn so eloquently

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said, we've seen increases in mammography
screening

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and cervical cancer screening
and also in colorectal cancer screening.

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And, you know, for colorectal cancer
screening, if you catch,

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an abnormal growth,
which is called a polyp in the colon,

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and you remove
that, you've prevented the cancer.

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And like I like to say, you
kick cancer in the rear

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because cancer is very personal for me.

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My mother had four cancers.

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She died from pancreatic cancer
ten, ten days after she was diagnosed.

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My father had colorectal cancer.

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He never woke up from the operating room.

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And I've had, breast cancer three times.

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The first time I had it was,
when I was 40 years old,

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and my youngest child was two years old.

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So it's very personal for me.

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So what I do is I work very hard

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to try to help people so that they won't
have to hear those four words.

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You have cancer.

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And I want to just go up to a little area
of, of cancer clinical trials. Yes.

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And so I have benefited personally
from what

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we've learned in cancer clinical trials
in terms of medications.

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I still take me on
anti-cancer medication now.

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And because of the research we know
about that drug, I can still take it.

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When I had my second cancer, I had,

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chemotherapy and,

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I enrolled in a clinical trial.

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And that clinical trial
was to look at the impact

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of the chemotherapy,
changes in the heart.

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And because I was on that clinical trial,

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the changes that were happening
in my heart due

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to one of the chemotherapy drugs
I was taking were were detected

00;14;36;18 - 00;14;42;07
early enough
that I was able to get some, medication.

00;14;42;17 - 00;14;46;03
I was on the medication for several years,
and now I don't have to take

00;14;46;14 - 00;14;47;17
that medication.

00;14;47;17 - 00;14;51;14
And so the condition
that I had was reversed,

00;14;51;14 - 00;14;54;14
but that was
because I was on a clinical trial.

00;14;54;15 - 00;14;58;20
I was monitored and they were able
to intervene very early.

00;14;58;20 - 00;15;02;19
So clinical trials are really important
to help us

00;15;02;19 - 00;15;06;02
identify new tools, new drugs.

00;15;06;24 - 00;15;08;09
New screening modalities.

00;15;08;09 - 00;15;12;25
So for example, for colon cancer
screening, most recently,

00;15;13;06 - 00;15;17;19
the FDA just approved a new test
for colon cancer screening.

00;15;17;19 - 00;15;19;17
It's a blood test.

00;15;19;17 - 00;15;23;25
And that was done from research
that was done from research.

00;15;24;09 - 00;15;28;17
And so we,
we really do glean a lot from research.

00;15;28;24 - 00;15;31;28
I want to make one more point
about research findings.

00;15;31;28 - 00;15;37;23
So in 2006
we got our first cancer vaccine.

00;15;38;20 - 00;15;40;20
That is the HPV vaccine.

00;15;41;28 - 00;15;44;28
And a lot of research went into that.

00;15;45;04 - 00;15;48;12
And and since 2006,

00;15;48;12 - 00;15;51;29
it has been given to millions of people
across the world.

00;15;52;23 - 00;15;55;26
It is safe and it is effective.

00;15;56;14 - 00;16;02;02
And we now have evidence from good data
that says it.

00;16;02;04 - 00;16;07;00
It really, really does prevent
cervical cancer in the United States.

00;16;07;00 - 00;16;11;25
Last January, the American Cancer Society,
in their annual data

00;16;11;29 - 00;16;15;28
showed for the first time
that in the group of women

00;16;16;07 - 00;16;21;02
who were old enough to have received
the vaccine when they were younger,

00;16;21;05 - 00;16;24;10
there was no I want to say, no,

00;16;24;12 - 00;16;28;17
zero cervical cancer
incidence in that group.

00;16;28;29 - 00;16;30;12
And we've seen the same thing

00;16;30;12 - 00;16;33;24
in other countries
who have done very similar analyses.

00;16;34;10 - 00;16;36;09
So that's research.

00;16;36;09 - 00;16;41;05
And research found us a cancer vaccine,
which we have been asking for for years.

00;16;41;20 - 00;16;44;20
But what has happened
with the HPV vaccine?

00;16;44;22 - 00;16;47;17
What what is what do you know
what has happened with the

00;16;47;17 - 00;16;49;12
the uptake of the HPV vaccine.

00;16;51;00 - 00;16;52;18
All I know

00;16;52;18 - 00;16;56;13
is it's helping people
not have cervical cancer.

00;16;56;14 - 00;16;58;18
That's all I know.

00;16;58;18 - 00;16;59;13
That is true.

00;16;59;13 - 00;17;03;26
But we should be at 80% uptake in boys

00;17;03;26 - 00;17;06;26
and girls
because it's approved for boys and girls.

00;17;07;03 - 00;17;09;11
We're about 57, 58 percent.

00;17;09;11 - 00;17;12;18
So people are opting out not to take the
the vaccine.

00;17;12;23 - 00;17;13;26
Is that. Exactly.

00;17;13;26 - 00;17;15;02
Oh, okay.

00;17;15;02 - 00;17;18;01
No, no. Okay. Exactly.

00;17;18;01 - 00;17;21;09
And there are some false rumors

00;17;21;09 - 00;17;24;09
circulating about the vaccine.

00;17;24;29 - 00;17;28;05
And, when it was first,

00;17;28;09 - 00;17;31;27
promoted and ready for use,

00;17;32;12 - 00;17;36;04
there was a lot of false publicity
that circulated.

00;17;36;09 - 00;17;36;28
Yeah.

00;17;36;28 - 00;17;41;25
And the publicity was that
you give that vaccine to your daughter,

00;17;41;25 - 00;17;44;25
because when it first came out,
I was only licensed for girls.

00;17;44;25 - 00;17;48;10
Then she was given her green light
for sexual promiscuity.

00;17;49;04 - 00;17;50;15
And HPV.

00;17;50;15 - 00;17;54;06
HPV vaccine is not a license to have sex.

00;17;54;06 - 00;17;57;06
It is a cancer vaccine.

00;17;57;18 - 00;18;00;20
And don't
you want something that will protect

00;18;00;26 - 00;18;03;26
your children
from ever hearing those words?

00;18;03;29 - 00;18;06;00
You have cancer. Yeah.

00;18;06;00 - 00;18;10;20
So I, I really wish that
we would stop thinking about it like that.

00;18;11;05 - 00;18;14;24
And, you know, my mother's
first cancer was cervical cancer.

00;18;15;13 - 00;18;16;17
And I'm sure

00;18;17;18 - 00;18;20;03
that,
you know, she would have done anything

00;18;20;03 - 00;18;23;13
to be able to have a vaccine,
not to go through that pain.

00;18;24;01 - 00;18;28;29
And so I really think we need to get
the right picture of the HPV vaccine.

00;18;28;29 - 00;18;32;01
It can protect up to six
different types of cancer.

00;18;32;07 - 00;18;35;03
Yesterday was on

00;18;35;03 - 00;18;38;09
the fifth, yesterday the fourth, sorry,

00;18;38;20 - 00;18;42;27
the 4th of March was HPV Awareness Day.

00;18;43;08 - 00;18;47;12
And so I think we really need
to get the right perspective.

00;18;47;12 - 00;18;49;22
We need to listen to science.

00;18;49;22 - 00;18;55;02
We need to listen to researchers
who know the research people

00;18;55;02 - 00;19;00;25
you trust who are researchers,
not any opinions about this.

00;19;01;04 - 00;19;04;28
If we really want to completely
eliminate cancer,

00;19;05;07 - 00;19;08;28
we've got to do
what science tells us is right.

00;19;09;10 - 00;19;11;06
This is powerful here.

00;19;11;06 - 00;19;14;06
Wow, Doctor Winn,
we got to take a break and come on back.

00;19;14;07 - 00;19;18;29
Doctor Paskett, thank you so much for that
wealth of information.

00;19;18;29 - 00;19;22;04
This is what Doctor Winn has been
preaching the entire time.

00;19;22;21 - 00;19;26;11
Wow. Outreach, engagement
and trust the science.

00;19;26;11 - 00;19;27;04
Stay close.

00;19;27;04 - 00;19;31;05
This is Community Conversations
the Black Health Wins podcast.

00;19;31;18 - 00;19;36;02
Thank you for listening and welcome
back to the Black Health Wins podcast.

00;19;36;03 - 00;19;38;08
I am Miss Community Clovia.

00;19;38;08 - 00;19;38;23
Your hostest.

00;19;38;23 - 00;19;41;21
My very special guest
joining me on this show.

00;19;41;21 - 00;19;46;19
Doctor Electra, Electra Paskett at Ohio
State University.

00;19;46;21 - 00;19;49;21
The Marion Rowely Chair, cancer research.

00;19;49;26 - 00;19;51;12
Thank you for being here on the show.

00;19;51;12 - 00;19;53;10
And now we have Doctor Robert Winn,

00;19;53;10 - 00;19;56;10
director of the VCU Massey
Comprehensive Cancer Center.

00;19;56;10 - 00;19;57;12
You're going to wrap us up.

00;19;57;12 - 00;19;58;16
But before you go,

00;19;58;16 - 00;20;02;10
I know you want to throw out
some more information for us to receive.

00;20;03;02 - 00;20;06;05
You know, for sure, and actually,
you know, you know, the deal.

00;20;06;05 - 00;20;07;18
You the hostest with the mostest.

00;20;07;18 - 00;20;10;04
Ahaha. So I'm the leave the...Ha, ha.

00;20;11;17 - 00;20;11;25
But, you

00;20;11;25 - 00;20;14;29
know, I would like to ask
Doctor Paskett a question.

00;20;14;29 - 00;20;20;00
There is a society, the ASPO American
Society of Preventative Oncology.

00;20;20;13 - 00;20;24;09
I'd like for you to just tell me,
you know, how that organization came

00;20;24;09 - 00;20;25;10
about real quick.

00;20;25;10 - 00;20;27;22
And, and what's its purpose?

00;20;27;22 - 00;20;30;12
If you can in a couple of minutes.

00;20;30;12 - 00;20;31;04
Sure.

00;20;31;04 - 00;20;34;10
The American Society
of Preventive Oncology, or ASPO,

00;20;34;22 - 00;20;41;05
it's a society that really focuses
on cancer prevention and control research.

00;20;41;05 - 00;20;44;24
It was, started in 1976

00;20;45;04 - 00;20;48;26
by just a few researchers
who were one of the few,

00;20;48;26 - 00;20;52;17
and the first, who started
looking at prevention and control.

00;20;52;28 - 00;20;56;06
So I hope everybody knows that this
these areas of prevention

00;20;56;14 - 00;20;59;15
and screening
and what we call cancer control,

00;20;59;29 - 00;21;03;15
is, are relatively recent.

00;21;04;05 - 00;21;08;10
So just as in the 1980s,

00;21;08;10 - 00;21;11;29
85 or so,
when I was getting my doctoral degree,

00;21;12;12 - 00;21;16;07
I was on the first cancer prevention,

00;21;16;19 - 00;21;21;19
and research unit that was funded
by the National Cancer Institute that

00;21;21;19 - 00;21;25;22
I was trained over in Seattle at the Fred
Hutchinson Cancer Research Center.

00;21;26;17 - 00;21;29;18
But we, ASPO, we have meetings every year,

00;21;30;00 - 00;21;34;00
and it's a smaller meeting,
about under under 500.

00;21;34;00 - 00;21;37;26
Around 400 people come
and the whole meeting is dedicated

00;21;38;06 - 00;21;41;12
to understanding, how we can,

00;21;41;14 - 00;21;44;14
understand how to prevent cancer.

00;21;44;18 - 00;21;47;11
How can we get more people to use

00;21;47;11 - 00;21;50;28
prevention
strategies used to get cancer screening?

00;21;51;05 - 00;21;55;08
And then we also talk about cancer
survivorship, which is sort of the control

00;21;55;17 - 00;21;56;05
part.

00;21;56;05 - 00;22;00;03
People who have cancer, how can we
help them make their lives better.

00;22;00;20 - 00;22;02;15
So, we're really excited this year.

00;22;02;15 - 00;22;05;15
The meeting is in April,
the first weekend.

00;22;05;20 - 00;22;09;06
And, in Philadelphia, I had the pleasure

00;22;09;06 - 00;22;12;29
of being, president of the society
many years ago.

00;22;13;10 - 00;22;16;06
And, it's just just grown so much.

00;22;16;06 - 00;22;19;18
It's great for junior folks,
junior trainees.

00;22;19;18 - 00;22;21;20
They don't really have a place to come

00;22;21;20 - 00;22;25;03
where they can feel comfortable
talking to more senior researchers.

00;22;25;13 - 00;22;28;27
And this is just the best place, 
for folks to come

00;22;29;13 - 00;22;34;20
who want to, intermingle and learn
from their people, from different

00;22;34;20 - 00;22;39;17
disciplines, who come and all are
geared to prevention and control.

00;22;39;26 - 00;22;41;01
This is amazing stuff.

00;22;41;01 - 00;22;43;21
Now, Doctor Winn you're going to help us
all the way up.

00;22;43;21 - 00;22;44;27
You know, we go get all the way up.

00;22;44;27 - 00;22;47;02
So what I hope everybody's heard today

00;22;47;02 - 00;22;50;18
is that, you know, don't don't
get all mind-trickerated

00;22;50;28 - 00;22;54;23
in the context of letting people think
that the work that hasn't happened over

00;22;54;23 - 00;22;59;03
the last 30 years has not manifested
in benefits for everybody.

00;22;59;14 - 00;23;01;03
Now, we can argue about that.

00;23;01;03 - 00;23;02;23
Some people have benefited
more than others,

00;23;02;23 - 00;23;04;05
but that's what's called the disparities.

00;23;04;05 - 00;23;05;24
And we still trying to close that gap.

00;23;05;24 - 00;23;08;05
Yeah. So in immortal words of Tupac.

00;23;08;05 - 00;23;09;16
Keep your head up.

00;23;09;16 - 00;23;12;02
And if you know what I would say
and I’m going to add to that.

00;23;12;02 - 00;23;13;11
Keep your eyes on the prize.

00;23;13;11 - 00;23;15;16
So that's how I'm going to take this out.

00;23;15;16 - 00;23;17;20
Well that's
how we're going to sum it all the way up.

00;23;17;20 - 00;23;19;05
Thank you.

00;23;19;05 - 00;23;23;26
We live one fight
VCU Massey Comprehensive Cancer Center.

00;23;23;26 - 00;23;27;24
If you want more information,
go to MasseyCancerCenter.org.

00;23;28;00 - 00;23;30;28
That's MasseyCancerCenter.org.

00;23;30;28 - 00;23;36;09
This has been Community Conversations,
the Black Health Wins podcast.