WEBVTT 00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:04.280 Every now and then, I'll pick up a book and say, 00:00:04.419 --> 00:00:07.839 why didn't I get this 10 years earlier? And the 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:10.619 book was by Jim Burns, and it was How to Parent 00:00:10.619 --> 00:00:13.179 Your Adult Children. And so I asked Jim, would 00:00:13.179 --> 00:00:16.320 you come and share about parenting adult kids? 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:19.239 And thank God he said yes, and that's today. 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:24.640 Welcome to this edition of Living on the Edge 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:27.920 with Chip Ingram. Our mission is to inspire Christians 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:30.940 to be genuine followers of Jesus and to empower 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:33.520 them to be active disciple makers in our world. 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:36.320 Thanks for joining us as we begin to wind down 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.880 our insightful series, Uninvited Guests, recognizing 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:43.159 and resisting the attacks on your family. And 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:45.320 as Chip teased today, he'll sit down with his 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:48.039 friend Jim Burns, author of the book, Doing Life 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:50.600 with Your Adult Children. For these last two 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:53.119 programs, they'll walk through six vital principles 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.100 that parents must embrace as their kids become 00:00:56.100 --> 00:00:59.039 adults. So if you're ready, here's Chip and Jim 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:01.799 Burns to dive right into this meaningful discussion. 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:06.439 We've gotten so many letters and emails about 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:08.900 this topic, and I thought, we've got to help 00:01:08.900 --> 00:01:11.079 people, but I've got enough issues with my adult 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:13.879 children, I wanted to come to an expert. So, 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:16.019 Jim, you've got a number of principles that we've 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:18.299 taken what we felt like were the top six that 00:01:18.299 --> 00:01:20.680 we hear from our audience. And I would just like 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:23.439 you to go over those and let's just have a conversation 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.760 to help the people that are, I think, having 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:29.420 at best. challenges and at worst some real hard 00:01:29.420 --> 00:01:32.219 times. The more we think about it as our kids 00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:34.379 get to be adults, they're running parallel journeys. 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:36.659 We don't know what we're doing as a parent of 00:01:36.659 --> 00:01:38.060 an adult child because we've never done that 00:01:38.060 --> 00:01:39.540 before. And they don't know what they're doing 00:01:39.540 --> 00:01:41.659 because they've never been an adult before. So 00:01:41.659 --> 00:01:43.819 the first principle is your role as a parent 00:01:43.819 --> 00:01:45.799 has to change. In fact, I tell parents, you're 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:48.180 fired. Not as a parent, but you're fired as a 00:01:48.180 --> 00:01:50.519 day -to -day parent because you've invested two 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:53.879 decades of your life pretty much in control and 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.109 focusing on those kids. And now, they're leaving. 00:01:57.209 --> 00:01:58.930 And so what you've got to do is actually help 00:01:58.930 --> 00:02:02.090 them leave by giving them the passport to adulthood. 00:02:02.269 --> 00:02:04.209 And I don't think that's easy for them sometimes. 00:02:04.349 --> 00:02:06.430 And I know it's not easy for us, especially if 00:02:06.430 --> 00:02:09.389 they're not making those great decisions. I know 00:02:09.389 --> 00:02:12.889 for me, I was an old coach, pastor. I have a 00:02:12.889 --> 00:02:14.949 lot of suggestions. I've got a lot of, hey, this 00:02:14.949 --> 00:02:18.449 is how you can do it. That did not go over real 00:02:18.449 --> 00:02:21.210 well. And I realized that, talk about that role, 00:02:21.250 --> 00:02:24.099 that passport. I had to become a consultant. 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:27.680 And that's a very, very different role. How do 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:30.259 you launch them? What are specific things you 00:02:30.259 --> 00:02:31.659 can do to help? Well, really, I think there is 00:02:31.659 --> 00:02:33.580 a job description. And I agree with you. It's 00:02:33.580 --> 00:02:36.300 not easy. I'm the guy who said, so why do they 00:02:36.300 --> 00:02:38.520 need to go to Europe to find themselves? I have 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:40.819 all the answers right here. But if I'm going 00:02:40.819 --> 00:02:43.620 to do it right, I've got to help them launch 00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:46.639 by actually rewriting the script and rewriting 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.159 the way I do it. And I've been a parent. a child. 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:52.400 And even when teens, it was a parent -child relationship. 00:02:52.620 --> 00:02:54.460 But I think we have to move it to an adult -to 00:02:54.460 --> 00:02:56.919 -adult relationship. And I find for a lot of 00:02:56.919 --> 00:02:58.479 parents, they have trouble there because their 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:00.659 kids aren't exactly acting like adults, especially 00:03:00.659 --> 00:03:02.819 in those, what we call the emerging adult years. 00:03:03.099 --> 00:03:05.939 But when we do that, that means that in launching 00:03:05.939 --> 00:03:08.599 them, we have to help them become more independent. 00:03:08.740 --> 00:03:11.360 And really, they're moving from dependence on 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:14.300 you toward independence. My kids would say, well, 00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:16.439 I'm an adult. And I'd be saying, well, I'm paying 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:18.139 for your cell phone. I'm actually paying for 00:03:18.139 --> 00:03:20.259 your college. I think there's an insurance bill 00:03:20.259 --> 00:03:22.919 that we're popping for. And so it was hard. I 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:24.979 think it's important for us to, as we give them 00:03:24.979 --> 00:03:27.500 that passport, I think we have to be encouraging, 00:03:27.620 --> 00:03:30.039 but not intrusive. And we want to be intrusive 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:31.699 because a lot of times we have that right answer. 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:33.340 I was thinking about somebody who lives up in 00:03:33.340 --> 00:03:35.800 your area. She's a vice president of a major, 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:37.719 major company up there in the Silicon Valley. 00:03:38.379 --> 00:03:40.819 She's 45 years old, has done very well for herself. 00:03:41.020 --> 00:03:43.039 And her mother said, it's cold outside, honey, 00:03:43.099 --> 00:03:46.280 put on a coat. And it bothered her. So she said, 00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:48.300 well, mom, I think I'm pretty capable of deciding 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:50.919 if I'm going to put on the coat. And the mom 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:52.620 said, well, I'm your mother. You put on that 00:03:52.620 --> 00:03:55.819 coat. She's 45 years old. And I said, well, what'd 00:03:55.819 --> 00:03:57.340 you do? She goes, well, I put on the coat, of 00:03:57.340 --> 00:04:00.259 course. But again, as a parent, we have to let 00:04:00.259 --> 00:04:03.819 them experience some of the highs and the lows. 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:07.110 I learned. how to ride a bike because I skinned 00:04:07.110 --> 00:04:09.310 my knee. And this is a time period that's really 00:04:09.310 --> 00:04:11.569 hard for us because if not, there'll be a failure 00:04:11.569 --> 00:04:13.610 to launch if we just kind of keep doing it for 00:04:13.610 --> 00:04:16.199 them. We see that a lot, don't we? Yeah. You 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:18.040 know, the joke of the 30 -year -old in the back 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:20.740 bedroom who's eating mom's food, mom's doing 00:04:20.740 --> 00:04:23.259 the clothes, all those, and never grow up. And, 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:26.160 you know, Psalm 127, I love this passage. Children 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.300 are a heritage from the Lord, an offspring, a 00:04:28.300 --> 00:04:30.899 reward. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior, 00:04:30.939 --> 00:04:33.480 children are born in one's youth. Blessed is 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:35.939 the man whose quiver is full of them. And then 00:04:35.939 --> 00:04:37.639 it talks about they won't be put to shame when 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:39.480 they contend to their opponents in the court. 00:04:39.620 --> 00:04:42.300 And the idea that our kids are arrows launched 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:44.779 toward a target, that there's intentionality. 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:47.600 The real goal isn't that everything is the way 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.939 you like it, but they actually fulfill the purpose 00:04:49.939 --> 00:04:51.759 that God has for them. And I think that's hard 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:54.120 for us because we like, or at least I liked, 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:57.019 I like them being dependent on me. And one of 00:04:57.019 --> 00:04:59.300 the aspects of that first principle of your role 00:04:59.300 --> 00:05:02.540 as a parent has to change for me is I have to 00:05:02.540 --> 00:05:05.240 ask the question, am I helping or enabling dependency? 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:08.240 And I think sometimes it's our fault because 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:10.699 we still want to be needed and we don't like 00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:12.740 the role that. has now been given us. But when 00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:14.439 you talk about that scripture and you talk about 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:16.839 launching them with arrows, then we have to help 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:19.339 them become responsible adults. And isn't that 00:05:19.339 --> 00:05:21.959 the bottom line? We want our kids to be responsible 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:24.339 adults who love God. Nobody said it was going 00:05:24.339 --> 00:05:26.240 to be perfect. In fact, the scripture is very 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.980 clear that it's not going to be this easy, clear 00:05:28.980 --> 00:05:30.980 path. There's going to be some bumps and bruises 00:05:30.980 --> 00:05:33.120 along the way, but they learn through those bumps 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:37.360 and bruises. If we enable dependency, then that's 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:40.000 more our problem as a parent instead of allowing 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.019 them to launch and let them experience some of 00:05:43.019 --> 00:05:45.360 the highs and lows of life. We had to do that. 00:05:45.459 --> 00:05:48.060 Yeah. They have to make some decisions that don't 00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:51.100 go so well. The sort of emotional or physical 00:05:51.100 --> 00:05:52.980 or sometimes even financial skinning of their 00:05:52.980 --> 00:05:56.050 knee. I have three sons and a daughter. They're 00:05:56.050 --> 00:05:58.410 all grown now. And I'm learning about this. And 00:05:58.410 --> 00:06:00.810 your book was very, very helpful. But my youngest, 00:06:00.970 --> 00:06:03.990 he just didn't like school. And so one, six weeks, 00:06:04.029 --> 00:06:05.990 he'd do well. And then he'd just fall off the 00:06:05.990 --> 00:06:08.350 cliff. Well, this is like for five years in a 00:06:08.350 --> 00:06:10.990 row. So he graduates from high school. And I'm 00:06:10.990 --> 00:06:13.170 going to go to college. And I remember thinking 00:06:13.170 --> 00:06:15.550 this through. Okay, wait a second. This isn't 00:06:15.550 --> 00:06:17.470 my money. This is God's money. And I sit down 00:06:17.470 --> 00:06:20.290 with him and I say, you've never put two six 00:06:20.290 --> 00:06:23.310 weeks together. And so I said, son, this may 00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:26.790 sound cruel, but you can work for a year. I'll 00:06:26.790 --> 00:06:28.709 give you a very low rent. In fact, I'll take 00:06:28.709 --> 00:06:30.509 all the money and I'll put it towards your college. 00:06:30.689 --> 00:06:33.250 But you need to come up with $10 ,000 and work 00:06:33.250 --> 00:06:36.110 for the next year. So you pay for that first 00:06:36.110 --> 00:06:39.209 semester. And then if you do well, we'll jump 00:06:39.209 --> 00:06:41.930 in it together. And, you know, he did landscaping 00:06:41.930 --> 00:06:44.209 and then he did window tenting. And then after 00:06:44.209 --> 00:06:46.470 about six months, he said, Dad, I got news for 00:06:46.470 --> 00:06:49.389 you. I'm going to college. Now, those are good 00:06:49.389 --> 00:06:53.850 jobs. But he realized I really need to become 00:06:53.850 --> 00:06:56.430 responsible. And I talked till I was blue in 00:06:56.430 --> 00:06:58.689 the face. But that experience is what taught 00:06:58.689 --> 00:07:01.029 him it. Well, experience is a better. teacher 00:07:01.029 --> 00:07:03.889 than advice. Each child is different along the 00:07:03.889 --> 00:07:06.730 way. And when we do that, we have to look at 00:07:06.730 --> 00:07:08.750 each individual and say, what is best for them 00:07:08.750 --> 00:07:11.189 to help them launch to become a responsible adult? 00:07:11.709 --> 00:07:14.670 There's an element of it too, in that when we 00:07:14.670 --> 00:07:17.529 let them go, there is a sense of loss. I find 00:07:17.529 --> 00:07:19.589 a lot of parents, and I'm in the same place you 00:07:19.589 --> 00:07:21.290 are. I have three daughters. So of course, we 00:07:21.290 --> 00:07:23.490 had no hormones or drama in our life, but I have 00:07:23.490 --> 00:07:25.449 three daughters who are now launched. And yet, 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:27.800 There was a sense of loss for us. Our identity 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:30.379 was around those kids. And now that we're launching 00:07:30.379 --> 00:07:33.240 them, we had to almost grieve the fact that we're 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:34.899 in a different phase, even though it's a great 00:07:34.899 --> 00:07:38.180 phase. I would say, too, it is often very different 00:07:38.180 --> 00:07:41.019 for the woman that is the man and being on the 00:07:41.019 --> 00:07:43.759 same page about launching. My wife intellectually 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:47.180 understood that our son has to be responsible 00:07:47.180 --> 00:07:50.220 or sending him to college is not a good plan. 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:53.000 Her head got that. Her heart didn't. I mean, 00:07:53.019 --> 00:07:55.120 it's embarrassing for him. I mean, how can you 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:57.740 do this? I said, well, we either can protect 00:07:57.740 --> 00:08:00.060 him or we can help him grow up. And sometimes 00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:02.860 helping people grow up is hard. Exactly right. 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:06.259 As the role changes, we have to get as physically. 00:08:07.479 --> 00:08:09.220 emotionally and spiritually healthy together. 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:11.439 And I actually think sometimes for people who 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:12.920 are married, and I realize there's a lot of single 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:14.959 parents out there, but for people who are married, 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:16.899 one of the most important things is that they 00:08:16.899 --> 00:08:19.819 get on the same page. They make some of those 00:08:19.819 --> 00:08:21.240 decisions. Now, again, we're never going to be 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:22.639 totally on the same page. Kathy and I are on 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:24.060 the same page and we write books on parenting 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:26.980 and marriage. That's what's funny. But the point 00:08:26.980 --> 00:08:30.029 being is the more you can be united. And it really 00:08:30.029 --> 00:08:32.529 does take some time and effort. And I didn't 00:08:32.529 --> 00:08:34.710 think it was going to be as complicated as they 00:08:34.710 --> 00:08:38.070 became young adults and adults. And it is complicated. 00:08:38.190 --> 00:08:39.830 And it was complicated for Kathy and I to work 00:08:39.830 --> 00:08:42.230 on ourselves. But when we work on our own self, 00:08:42.289 --> 00:08:44.730 somebody once said to me, untended fires soon 00:08:44.730 --> 00:08:47.110 become nothing but a pile of ashes. And I realized 00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:49.070 that during a season, even when our kids were 00:08:49.070 --> 00:08:51.389 teens, we weren't tending the fire within our 00:08:51.389 --> 00:08:53.529 own souls. And we weren't tending the fire within 00:08:53.529 --> 00:08:56.710 our own marriage enough. And so we had to kind 00:08:56.710 --> 00:08:59.490 of do some course corrections. in order to help 00:08:59.490 --> 00:09:02.789 those kids launch. So the second principle here 00:09:02.789 --> 00:09:08.019 is unsolicited advice is usually taken. as criticism. 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:10.620 Could you unpack that for us? You know, what's 00:09:10.620 --> 00:09:12.740 funny is I was saying to you that people, they 00:09:12.740 --> 00:09:15.019 start shaking their heads once I say that. Unsolicited 00:09:15.019 --> 00:09:16.480 advice is usually taken as criticism. They go, 00:09:16.539 --> 00:09:19.720 oh, that's my kid. But the principle is keep 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:21.779 your mouth shut, the welcome mat out. Now, there 00:09:21.779 --> 00:09:24.980 are some things that when a kid is straying deeply 00:09:24.980 --> 00:09:26.779 and having struggles, obviously they need to 00:09:26.779 --> 00:09:29.779 know what we believe, what we think. But I think 00:09:29.779 --> 00:09:32.820 we do that too often and then they don't launch. 00:09:33.019 --> 00:09:35.440 So it goes back to the idea that they don't want 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.200 advice. They're not seeking sometimes our advice. 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:41.039 And the fact is, is that they're going to have 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:42.879 to learn. It's back to what we said in that first 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.200 principle that experience is a better teacher 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.440 than advice. And I think that's really hard for 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:50.059 us because we typically do know the answers. 00:09:50.139 --> 00:09:52.659 We typically do have the answers and it's hard 00:09:52.659 --> 00:09:54.649 to sit back and say. okay, they're going to have 00:09:54.649 --> 00:09:57.929 to navigate this. And I think we often feel very 00:09:57.929 --> 00:10:01.309 rejected. I mean, it's like you're now 19, 20, 00:10:01.370 --> 00:10:05.370 and you don't even ask me, how did I get dumb? 00:10:05.509 --> 00:10:07.929 And then we have a conversation sitting around 00:10:07.929 --> 00:10:09.669 the table or over a cup of coffee someplace, 00:10:09.870 --> 00:10:12.129 and you're telling me, oh, I got this off the 00:10:12.129 --> 00:10:15.750 internet, or so -and -so says this. I'm thinking, 00:10:15.909 --> 00:10:19.029 what do you mean? And it was really hard, I think, 00:10:19.049 --> 00:10:23.580 for us to accept. them pulling away is a part 00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:25.779 of them growing up. And actually that's healthy 00:10:25.779 --> 00:10:27.799 because a lot of times we don't see that as healthy. 00:10:27.860 --> 00:10:30.139 It gets back to our own unhealthiness, but really 00:10:30.139 --> 00:10:32.740 them pulling away is a positive trait because 00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:33.940 they're going to have to figure out how to do 00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:36.139 it on their own. I think we have to ask for permission. 00:10:37.179 --> 00:10:39.000 How have you done that with your kids? Well, 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:40.740 I remember with Christy one time, Christy and 00:10:40.740 --> 00:10:42.299 Steve, my son -in -law, they were living with 00:10:42.299 --> 00:10:45.220 us for two months and they were going to move 00:10:45.220 --> 00:10:47.580 to Texas for a year. and they were talking about 00:10:47.580 --> 00:10:50.139 the move. And so I'm listening in on this, and 00:10:50.139 --> 00:10:51.580 I'm not thinking either one of them have a really 00:10:51.580 --> 00:10:53.120 good idea on how they're going to move. They're 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:55.500 trying to do it cheap. So I walked in, and I 00:10:55.500 --> 00:10:58.080 said, can I ask you guys for permission to kind 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.639 of give you some advice? Christy, who's in an 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.879 intense conversation with Steve, says, not now, 00:11:03.019 --> 00:11:05.899 Dad. And I went, oh. And I thought, wait, people 00:11:05.899 --> 00:11:09.139 pay me to give them advice, and my own daughter 00:11:09.139 --> 00:11:11.360 doesn't want this. So I walked away, and I did 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:15.019 the right thing. You're listening to Living on 00:11:15.019 --> 00:11:17.539 the Edge with Chip Ingram. And we'll get you 00:11:17.539 --> 00:11:20.139 back to today's message in just a minute. But 00:11:20.139 --> 00:11:22.279 quickly, it should be clear from this new series 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:24.700 how passionate we are about encouraging husbands 00:11:24.700 --> 00:11:28.080 and wives and empowering them to be God -honoring 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:30.960 parents. And that's why we've also created a 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:34.039 new engaging tool that couples can rely on every 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:37.019 day to strengthen their relationship. Stick around 00:11:37.019 --> 00:11:39.340 after the teaching to learn how to get your hands 00:11:39.340 --> 00:11:42.159 on this resource. But for now, here again is 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:45.870 Chip. I had an interesting situation on this 00:11:45.870 --> 00:11:48.629 Keep Your Mouth Shut. My son -in -law, I knew 00:11:48.629 --> 00:11:50.230 him before my daughter did. And I could tell 00:11:50.230 --> 00:11:51.990 he was a little bit sweet on her. And it was 00:11:51.990 --> 00:11:54.210 a long journey. And he asked me to mentor him. 00:11:54.269 --> 00:11:56.549 We met every week for like two years. And man, 00:11:56.590 --> 00:11:58.970 we're really tied. He's digging into the scriptures. 00:11:59.169 --> 00:12:01.889 And it's been really, really great. I'm over 00:12:01.889 --> 00:12:05.090 at his house. And he goes, could we be peers? 00:12:06.149 --> 00:12:09.230 I said, what? Well, I appreciate your wise counsel, 00:12:09.429 --> 00:12:12.169 but it just feels like every time we're together, 00:12:12.429 --> 00:12:14.730 you're either sharing something you're learning 00:12:14.730 --> 00:12:17.509 or here's a thought you might have, or no matter 00:12:17.509 --> 00:12:20.289 what I'm doing, you sort of want to help me. 00:12:20.830 --> 00:12:23.669 I mean, I really respect you, but could we just 00:12:23.669 --> 00:12:25.990 hang out? I didn't even know I was doing it, 00:12:26.029 --> 00:12:27.990 Jim. Right. And you had been in a different role 00:12:27.990 --> 00:12:30.169 with him. And I think we do that with our kids. 00:12:30.230 --> 00:12:31.970 We do that sometimes with the significant others 00:12:31.970 --> 00:12:34.370 and the in -laws. And what he really did was 00:12:34.370 --> 00:12:37.389 he gave you a gift. I love all the advice and 00:12:37.389 --> 00:12:40.070 all the respect that I have for you, but the 00:12:40.070 --> 00:12:42.230 fact is I want to change the relationship just 00:12:42.230 --> 00:12:45.029 a little bit. We kind of came full circle, and 00:12:45.029 --> 00:12:49.669 I had to learn to shut up. Yeah. It's so key 00:12:49.669 --> 00:12:52.009 for us, though, to have the kind of relationship 00:12:52.009 --> 00:12:54.590 with them that they do come back. He's going 00:12:54.590 --> 00:12:57.269 to continue to ask for advice, but he wants that 00:12:57.269 --> 00:13:00.309 relationship to be kind of on his turn. And so 00:13:00.309 --> 00:13:02.490 what do we do? We become their greatest cheerleaders. 00:13:02.529 --> 00:13:04.759 Yes. And I think sometimes when we are their 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:07.500 significant cheerleader, then they really are 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:09.620 going to be willing to ask. And I find that when 00:13:09.620 --> 00:13:12.419 my kids, when they come and seek advice from 00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:14.659 me, now they really want to because they're asking 00:13:14.659 --> 00:13:17.679 me. And I want to be open to that. But if I'm 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:20.210 too intrusive. they're not going to want it. 00:13:20.269 --> 00:13:23.029 I finally learned that the way that builds that 00:13:23.029 --> 00:13:26.309 bridge so they come and ask is listening and 00:13:26.309 --> 00:13:29.629 asking questions. Proverbs 9, 8 through 10 says, 00:13:29.730 --> 00:13:32.870 do not rebuke a mocker lest he hate you. Rebuke 00:13:32.870 --> 00:13:35.190 a wise man and he'll love you. Give instruction 00:13:35.190 --> 00:13:38.149 to a wise man and he becomes still wiser. Teach 00:13:38.149 --> 00:13:40.429 a righteous man and they'll add to their learning. 00:13:40.649 --> 00:13:42.669 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom 00:13:42.669 --> 00:13:45.110 and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. 00:13:45.629 --> 00:13:48.899 And I think there's times where they don't want 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:53.100 to hear. And coming on super strong, not only 00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:55.460 is it not well -received, it actually begins 00:13:55.460 --> 00:13:58.899 to cause distance and resentment. And we're not 00:13:58.899 --> 00:14:01.240 talking just about cultural issues and the kind 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.980 of music you listen to, but this is about your 00:14:03.980 --> 00:14:07.279 education or maybe a moral issue, and you're 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.379 just getting a wall. What do you say to that 00:14:09.379 --> 00:14:12.309 parent? Yeah, I think it's hard. And I've experienced 00:14:12.309 --> 00:14:14.009 that with my kids. In fact, one of my daughters, 00:14:14.149 --> 00:14:16.289 she was about an hour away in college and she 00:14:16.289 --> 00:14:18.049 wasn't making all great choices. And I would 00:14:18.049 --> 00:14:20.669 go up every Tuesday and I always had a list in 00:14:20.669 --> 00:14:23.529 my pocket that I wanted to cover. But I found 00:14:23.529 --> 00:14:26.210 that it was much better when it was more natural 00:14:26.210 --> 00:14:28.570 in the conversation. And sometimes it was. And 00:14:28.570 --> 00:14:30.230 there were times, Chip, when I would get in that 00:14:30.230 --> 00:14:31.950 car and I'd say, did I waste my time? I just 00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:34.350 had a meal with her, but I didn't get to go through 00:14:34.350 --> 00:14:37.980 my list. And you know what's interesting is I 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:40.039 found that just pouring into her, and she knew 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:41.379 what I was doing, and she probably knew I had 00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:43.559 a list, to be honest. But there were other times 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:47.799 when, with her especially, I needed to say, we 00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:50.019 need to talk through this. I want to tell you, 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.700 I love you. I trust you. I think you're going 00:14:52.700 --> 00:14:55.440 to make good decisions. But I feel like I'm still 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:57.519 your dad. I need to have this conversation. But 00:14:57.519 --> 00:14:59.940 it's what you did with your son -in -law. I think 00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:01.700 it comes through asking the right questions. 00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:04.159 It's a little bit like fishing. You're waiting 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:06.840 for that fish to bite. You got to have some patience 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:09.240 and perseverance and you don't have to have the 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:12.039 answer immediately because if we jump in, then 00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:14.460 I think they're going to pull back. You share 00:15:14.460 --> 00:15:16.960 a story in the book. It's about Ruth Graham because 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.279 sometimes they do go away and sometimes they 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.940 don't make small bad decisions. They make some 00:15:22.940 --> 00:15:25.299 really big ones. You know, Ruth Graham actually 00:15:25.299 --> 00:15:27.620 told me this. I love her transparency, but this 00:15:27.620 --> 00:15:30.000 is Ruth Jr. who we're talking about. She was 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.580 married to someone who had worked for the Graham 00:15:31.580 --> 00:15:33.360 organization for years and that's where they 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:35.279 had their children. And then he made some real, 00:15:35.740 --> 00:15:38.740 immoral decisions. And on the rebound, she married 00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:40.779 somebody that her parents, think of this, this 00:15:40.779 --> 00:15:43.519 is Billy and Ruth Graham, had said, don't think 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:45.120 this is a wise idea. Maybe you're rushing into 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:47.340 this. And so she married this guy. They went 00:15:47.340 --> 00:15:50.220 down to Florida and within six weeks, it was 00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:52.500 a disaster and there was some abuse things going 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:54.360 on. And so she got in her car and she started 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:56.139 driving and she didn't know where she was going 00:15:56.139 --> 00:15:59.440 to go. She ended up driving toward home. Because 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:01.740 when we're in trouble, we go home. Calls her 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:03.799 dad up and said, dad, I'm coming home. You were 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:06.820 right. And he didn't say, I told you so. So she 00:16:06.820 --> 00:16:08.659 gets there. And of course, there's a gate. It's 00:16:08.659 --> 00:16:10.879 the Billy Graham compound. So they open the gate 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:14.220 and she comes up and the door opens and it's 00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:17.100 her dad. And he just says, welcome home, bunny. 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:19.320 That's what they called her bunny. Welcome home, 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:22.059 bunny. I love you. And I'm so proud of you. Well, 00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:24.440 he could have said so many other things at that 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:27.120 moment. He could have said, I told you so. He 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:28.820 could have said, oh, that was a. Poor choice. 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:30.860 But instead what he did was he just welcomed 00:16:30.860 --> 00:16:33.159 her. And guess what? That brought them closer 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.419 together. And there were major great conversations 00:16:35.419 --> 00:16:38.299 that took place then. Love the grace and the 00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:42.039 love that he showed in that moment. I don't know 00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:44.750 where you're at. But here's the principle. Keep 00:16:44.750 --> 00:16:47.350 your mouth shut and keep the welcome mat open. 00:16:47.509 --> 00:16:49.850 I mean, that's the principle. And it's rooted 00:16:49.850 --> 00:16:53.309 in a book that Jim wrote that I have passed on 00:16:53.309 --> 00:16:55.629 to so many people, doing life with your adult 00:16:55.629 --> 00:16:58.350 children. And here's a couple guys that are navigating 00:16:58.350 --> 00:17:00.509 life and have done that with their adult children. 00:17:00.669 --> 00:17:03.090 And we're going to talk now about principle number 00:17:03.090 --> 00:17:05.930 three, become a student of their culture. And 00:17:05.930 --> 00:17:09.319 I think this is really critical because The culture 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:12.519 has changed so quickly, and the dynamics behind 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:15.940 it have changed so radically. I think a lot of 00:17:15.940 --> 00:17:19.160 parents, they feel the change, but I don't think 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:21.349 they understand it. You described it really well. 00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:24.529 It's a mindset shift. You know, my parents were 00:17:24.529 --> 00:17:26.569 bugged because the Beatles had long hair. Right. 00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:29.029 But the fascinating thing is, is the culture 00:17:29.029 --> 00:17:31.450 has shifted and it shifted quickly. So what I'll 00:17:31.450 --> 00:17:33.390 say a lot of times to parents of adult children 00:17:33.390 --> 00:17:36.710 is they experience so much so differently, not 00:17:36.710 --> 00:17:40.380 only as children, for example. They saw the iPhone 00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:44.160 birth. We didn't. There were so many things like 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.339 that that changed. And I think for a lot of us, 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:48.700 we know that, but we don't become students of 00:17:48.700 --> 00:17:50.319 the culture. And so I think it's important for 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:53.059 parents to not agree with everything that's changing 00:17:53.059 --> 00:17:55.099 in the culture, but to actually be students of 00:17:55.099 --> 00:17:57.079 the culture. For example, I just saw that there 00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:00.500 are twice as many atheists in Gen Z than in the 00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:01.700 millennials. And we've been worried about the 00:18:01.700 --> 00:18:04.180 millennials, but that's going to help me understand 00:18:04.180 --> 00:18:07.559 this new generation of kids and what their mindset 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.309 is. But we need to know some of the distinctives 00:18:10.309 --> 00:18:12.150 because I think we can pair it better when we 00:18:12.150 --> 00:18:14.309 know the distinctives. So one of the distinctives 00:18:14.309 --> 00:18:16.250 is they're shaped by technology. It means that's 00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:17.490 how they're going to shop. That's how they're 00:18:17.490 --> 00:18:20.609 going to work. So because they're shaped by technology, 00:18:20.950 --> 00:18:23.809 we just have to understand that they have influences 00:18:23.809 --> 00:18:26.190 that we didn't have, and it's influenced quickly. 00:18:26.490 --> 00:18:30.109 Another part of that is this generation, they 00:18:30.109 --> 00:18:34.539 don't live to work. They work. to live. And so 00:18:34.539 --> 00:18:36.420 they're not going to get the gold watch by being 00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:38.660 someplace for, you know, 35 years. They're just 00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:40.740 probably not going to get that. And there's a 00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:42.859 positive side to that too, but it drives parents 00:18:42.859 --> 00:18:45.019 nuts. You know, I have a daughter who has a master's 00:18:45.019 --> 00:18:47.259 degree in business and most every year she kind 00:18:47.259 --> 00:18:49.980 of changes, but that's just the norm. This is 00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:52.940 a generation that meanders towards responsibility 00:18:52.940 --> 00:18:56.180 and it bugs parents like crazy. Now, when you 00:18:56.180 --> 00:18:59.529 ask millennials, Even Gen Z, you know, what are 00:18:59.529 --> 00:19:01.049 the important factors in your life? They want 00:19:01.049 --> 00:19:02.269 to have a good marriage. They want to be good 00:19:02.269 --> 00:19:04.970 parents. But they're not going to be going to 00:19:04.970 --> 00:19:08.569 the latest Jim Burns seminar or read the big, 00:19:08.569 --> 00:19:11.150 thick books. They're looking at podcasts. They're 00:19:11.150 --> 00:19:13.029 looking at three -minute videos, maybe a TED 00:19:13.029 --> 00:19:14.690 Talk if they're really going to go for it. Yeah, 00:19:14.690 --> 00:19:16.880 my daughter said, Well, Dad, I only listen to 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.660 podcasts, and we don't have a TV. We get all 00:19:19.660 --> 00:19:21.380 our information if I want to watch something 00:19:21.380 --> 00:19:23.619 on YouTube. But it's more than just technology 00:19:23.619 --> 00:19:26.099 and information. They have a different mindset, 00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:28.220 too, don't they? So one of the other points is 00:19:28.220 --> 00:19:30.940 that this generation views tolerance as a form 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:34.220 of loving. Sometimes that really struggles when 00:19:34.220 --> 00:19:36.220 you have a biblical worldview. I don't want to 00:19:36.220 --> 00:19:38.119 be narrow, but at the same time, I do believe 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.839 the Bible, and they get frustrated at a point 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:43.339 because of this tolerance. So even though we 00:19:43.339 --> 00:19:46.289 disagree, It's possible to produce what I call 00:19:46.289 --> 00:19:48.589 odd. If you came into my office, right on my 00:19:48.589 --> 00:19:50.470 desk, it's a yellowed post -it note now, but 00:19:50.470 --> 00:19:54.670 it says A .W .E. And it stands for affection, 00:19:54.789 --> 00:19:56.849 warmth, and encouragement. And I think what we 00:19:56.849 --> 00:19:58.789 want to do, even in the midst of not totally 00:19:58.789 --> 00:20:00.710 understanding the culture or agreeing with the 00:20:00.710 --> 00:20:04.170 culture, is that we give them plenty of affection. 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.440 choose to make poor choices, even sexually, not 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:10.900 because they wanted sex. They craved affection 00:20:10.900 --> 00:20:13.019 and they weren't getting it from home. And so 00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:15.359 I think we give them affection with lots of praise 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.940 and then warmth is setting the tone. You can 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.819 disagree with your kids and you can even disagree 00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:22.740 with some of the cultural decisions, but you 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:24.880 can still set a tone of warmth. My mom did that. 00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:27.039 My dad was an alcoholic. We have a similar background 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:30.140 growing up. And yet my mom set a tone in our 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:33.039 home. So what that meant was, sure, she had issues, 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:35.940 but she still set a tone of warmth. We were drawn 00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:38.779 to her. So we've got to be the people who give 00:20:38.779 --> 00:20:41.839 them lots of affection and warmth and encouragement, 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:44.940 even when we are looking at a worldview differently 00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:46.799 than they are. A couple of things come to my 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.339 mind. One is I had one son go through a pretty 00:20:49.339 --> 00:20:52.339 decent season of rebellion, and he wasn't way 00:20:52.339 --> 00:20:54.779 out there morally, but was really challenged 00:20:54.779 --> 00:20:57.720 with his faith. And I had these two rules. One, 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:01.240 nothing you can do. is going to cause me to stop 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:03.839 loving you. Oh, so good. And number two is you 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.500 can't have your own selfish way inside our home, 00:21:06.619 --> 00:21:09.440 you know? Perfect. I mean, his attitude was terrible, 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:12.160 and I went out to breakfast with him once a week, 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:14.480 and he would roll his eyes, and I would just 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:17.319 think, this is the biggest waste of time. And 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:19.900 I was waiting for that big moment and big breakthrough, 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:22.579 but it was just the presence. And, you know, 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:25.119 he turned back around and talked about becoming 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:27.789 a student of them. He had this passion for music. 00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:31.089 And I said, hey, son, music is nice, but you've 00:21:31.089 --> 00:21:33.890 got to make a living. And so I'm telling him, 00:21:33.950 --> 00:21:36.309 you know, you really ought to major in something. 00:21:36.569 --> 00:21:38.829 You know, do your music on the side. No, Dad, 00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:41.349 I don't want to go to college. This is what I 00:21:41.349 --> 00:21:44.150 want to do. And we're in the living room. And 00:21:44.150 --> 00:21:47.529 he goes, Dad, I believe God is leading me to 00:21:47.529 --> 00:21:50.069 go into music. And then he puts his hands on 00:21:50.069 --> 00:21:53.190 his hips and he said, who told me to dream a 00:21:53.190 --> 00:21:56.569 dream and trust God and step out? And I remember 00:21:56.569 --> 00:22:00.549 in that moment realizing, hey, son, you're right. 00:22:00.970 --> 00:22:03.930 How can I support you in that? In my mind, did 00:22:03.930 --> 00:22:05.430 I think he was ever going to make it in music? 00:22:05.549 --> 00:22:07.509 Absolutely not. But he was a very hard -headed 00:22:07.509 --> 00:22:10.190 kid, and he eventually actually made it in music. 00:22:10.210 --> 00:22:13.690 And writes a lot of songs that we sing. But I 00:22:13.690 --> 00:22:15.910 think it's that coming to where you're understanding 00:22:15.910 --> 00:22:19.750 him and realize it's his life. And it wasn't 00:22:19.750 --> 00:22:23.450 immoral. But there are times when their culture 00:22:23.450 --> 00:22:26.410 and our values really start telling a different 00:22:26.410 --> 00:22:29.190 story. And we have to be willing to lean in. 00:22:29.250 --> 00:22:31.670 In fact, my passage for this one is the Apostle 00:22:31.670 --> 00:22:34.049 Paul. He says, To the Jews I became like a Jew 00:22:34.049 --> 00:22:36.450 to win the Jews. To those under the law I became 00:22:36.450 --> 00:22:38.950 like one under the law, though I myself am not 00:22:38.950 --> 00:22:41.329 under the law, so as to win those under the law. 00:22:41.490 --> 00:22:43.869 To those not having the law I became like one 00:22:43.869 --> 00:22:46.569 not having the law, though I'm free not from 00:22:46.569 --> 00:22:49.450 the law but under Christ's law, so as to win 00:22:49.450 --> 00:22:52.690 those not having the law. To the weak I became 00:22:52.690 --> 00:22:55.930 weak. to win the week. I've become all things 00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:59.369 to all men that I might save some. How do we 00:22:59.369 --> 00:23:01.630 do that as parents? Well, I think your illustration 00:23:01.630 --> 00:23:04.230 with your son is a perfect illustration of that. 00:23:04.569 --> 00:23:07.190 Children, even when they're young, regard your 00:23:07.190 --> 00:23:09.869 very presence as a sign of caring and connectedness. 00:23:10.009 --> 00:23:12.750 Wow. And I think part of that is, yes, understand 00:23:12.750 --> 00:23:13.930 their culture. You don't have to agree with their 00:23:13.930 --> 00:23:15.789 culture, but understand what those needs are 00:23:15.789 --> 00:23:18.930 within their culture. And they still need dad 00:23:18.930 --> 00:23:21.069 and they still need mom to be present in their 00:23:21.069 --> 00:23:24.119 life. It's in a different way. But when you do 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:27.579 that, you still are their greatest influence. 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.920 When they were young, you were an influence. 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.000 And as they're old, it's not like it's going 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.579 to go away. You're going to still influence them, 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:37.619 but from a different manner. But it is your presence. 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.119 This is Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram. 00:23:44.589 --> 00:23:46.349 And you've been listening to the first half of 00:23:46.349 --> 00:23:48.789 Chip's discussion with author and speaker Jim 00:23:48.789 --> 00:23:51.690 Burns. To learn more about Jim's book, Doing 00:23:51.690 --> 00:23:55.029 Life with Your Adult Children, visit livingontheedge 00:23:55.029 --> 00:24:02.230 .org or call 888 -333 -6003. Well, our Bible 00:24:02.230 --> 00:24:04.549 teacher Chip Ingram is back in studio with me 00:24:04.549 --> 00:24:06.609 now. And Chip, throughout this series, you've 00:24:06.609 --> 00:24:09.029 invited our listeners to become monthly financial 00:24:09.029 --> 00:24:11.430 partners. Well, take a minute, if you would, 00:24:11.509 --> 00:24:13.690 and explain why we've devoted so much time and 00:24:13.690 --> 00:24:17.029 energy to asking people to join us. Dave, there's 00:24:17.029 --> 00:24:20.390 a very, very simple reason. The backbone of our 00:24:20.390 --> 00:24:24.170 ministry is... people who are on the team. The 00:24:24.170 --> 00:24:27.250 second thing is, is we have people give at all 00:24:27.250 --> 00:24:29.829 different levels and we're thankful for all of 00:24:29.829 --> 00:24:32.769 them, but we never know what's coming in. When 00:24:32.769 --> 00:24:35.410 people are on the team and people give monthly, 00:24:35.490 --> 00:24:38.430 guess what? You begin to build a baseline that 00:24:38.430 --> 00:24:41.450 you can know this amount of money is going to 00:24:41.450 --> 00:24:44.470 come in each month. And just like people's budget. 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:47.259 Can you imagine never knowing what your paycheck 00:24:47.259 --> 00:24:49.039 is going to be and how are you going to pay your 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:51.720 bills? And so we wanted to emphasize monthly 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.660 donors become a part of the family. They become 00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:57.619 a part of reaching the next generation, equipping 00:24:57.619 --> 00:25:00.160 pastors and leaders and discipling God's people. 00:25:00.380 --> 00:25:03.299 And if it's $10 a month or $20 a month, $100 00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:07.269 a month, we leave that up to them. Move from 00:25:07.269 --> 00:25:10.670 this is great, this is helpful to I want to be 00:25:10.670 --> 00:25:13.750 on the team. We are committed to really making 00:25:13.750 --> 00:25:15.829 a difference. And that means we've got to go 00:25:15.829 --> 00:25:18.630 there together. And we need everyone to carry 00:25:18.630 --> 00:25:21.650 some of the weight. That's why we talk about 00:25:21.650 --> 00:25:25.329 becoming monthly partners. Our world is in desperate 00:25:25.329 --> 00:25:28.710 need. Our country's in desperate need. Families 00:25:28.710 --> 00:25:31.630 who love Jesus are in desperate need. We are 00:25:31.630 --> 00:25:34.849 called to make disciples, to reach the next generation, 00:25:35.069 --> 00:25:38.329 and to equip families and leaders to really walk 00:25:38.329 --> 00:25:42.049 with God. We want to be a part of helping Christians 00:25:42.049 --> 00:25:44.589 live like Christians. And if you resonate with 00:25:44.589 --> 00:25:47.069 that, let me encourage you, become a monthly 00:25:47.069 --> 00:25:50.019 partner. Great challenge, Chip. And please know 00:25:50.019 --> 00:25:52.960 how much we appreciate your sacrifice. Your regular 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.960 support allows us to plan our next steps as a 00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:58.880 ministry and be ready to walk through doors that 00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:01.980 God opens for us. And as Chip said during this 00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:04.519 entire series, if you become a monthly financial 00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:07.240 partner of Living on the Edge, we'll send you 00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:09.619 our newest resource, The Marriage That Works 00:26:09.619 --> 00:26:12.680 Truth Cards, as our thank you. Learn more by 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:16.200 going to livingontheedge .org or by calling 888 00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:25.319 - Again, that's 888 -333 -6003 or visit livingontheedge 00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:29.619 .org. App listeners, tap donate. Well, be sure 00:26:29.619 --> 00:26:31.900 to join us next time as Chip wraps up our entire 00:26:31.900 --> 00:26:35.440 series, Uninvited Guests. Until then, I'm Dave 00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.640 Drewy saying thanks for listening to this edition 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:39.200 of Living on the Edge.