This is Chip Ingram, and one of the questions
I hear all the time in the midst of tragedies
and one of the things I struggle with myself
is when there are devastating things that happen,
whether it's fire that rips through an entire
town or someone who goes through something that
is unimaginably painful, and we say, God, where
are you? That is a difficult question we all
wrestle with, Chip. Well, I'm Dave Drewy, and
coming up today on Living on the Edge, we'll
share the second half of the incredible testimony
from a fellow believer in the United Kingdom
named Guy. And as we heard last time, Guy experienced
one of the most dramatic, heartbreaking circumstances
you'll ever hear. Yet his faith in God helped
him persevere against all odds. And Chip, I don't
know about you, but I think Guy really epitomizes
Proverbs 24, 16, for a righteous person falls
seven times and rises again. Absolutely, Dave.
So if you weren't with us yesterday, we're going
to back up just a few minutes to give you a bit
of the background. And if you need hope in the
midst of a challenging time, today you'll hear
a miraculous story of God meeting us in our deepest,
deepest need. That's right, Chip. And quickly,
before we get started, like yesterday, Guy's
story is intended for mature audiences. So if
you have younger kids listening in, parental
discretion is strongly advised. Well, let's not
waste any more time. Here's the remainder of
Guy's story from tragedy to victory. Let me tell
you about Hazel, my wife, and our marriage. Hazel
was just the kindest person that I think I'd
ever met. People used to say that she would light
up the room, and that's what I used to love about
her. She had such a heart for people. She cared
so, so deeply. She had this saying that she always
wanted to leave people better off than when she
first met up with them. That was her thing. She
never liked to leave a conversation or an interaction
in a bad place. And really, that whole heart
is, I guess, why I fell in love with her. She
was really, really personable. We had so many
years of blessing, a lot of fun, a lot of laughter,
but as every family, you do have challenges.
The challenges really started when our eldest
was going through perhaps his mid teenage years.
He started to withdraw a lot. He was struggling
with identity in various different ways and chose
to cope with that through self -medication of
drugs and alcohol. And then a few years later,
when the problems with substance abuse got worse,
it became very clear that there were underlying
mental health issues. He was diagnosed with autism,
in fact, two types of autism, Asperger's and
BPD, which are really complex forms of autism.
They fight against each other. And this really
caused him a lot of distress. He got to the point
where he was very, very paranoid about all sorts
of things. And this paranoia then started to
lead to psychosis. He had five suicide attempts,
multiple self -harm. A number of times he tripped
into psychosis and became extremely threatening.
It was at that point that he got sectioned and
was put in a secure hospital. He was then released.
We were really concerned about the nature of
that release. we managed to find him a flat where
at least he could be safe and have a space that
he could feel was secure for himself. It was
three weeks later and our youngest son graduated
from university and we enjoyed, we celebrated
that. And then as we were coming home from the
graduation, we got a phone call from our eldest
son saying that he really needed help cleaning
the flat. So Hazel, being the person that she
was, said that she would go and do that. I had
some work to do for a big church meeting coming
up, and I dropped her off at the flat and went
off to a cafe for a few hours. At pick -up time,
I came to find her, to pick her up, and put in
a phone call, but there was no answer. I tried
ringing. hazel's phone i tried ringing my eldest
son's phone and there was nothing i started to
bang on the door a lot louder shouting up to
be let in and then i got a text from my eldest
son saying dad call the police so i did and then
whilst i was on the phone to the police explaining
the history He sent me a text saying he'd killed
her. At that point, I totally lost it. I was
kicking the door as hard as I could, screaming
in the middle of the street to be let in. The
police came. They took me in the police car to
a police station and I was video interviewed
for an hour and a half. And then after that,
they told me that she was dead. I think as a
father and as a husband, you have such competing
thoughts going on. I mean, none of this is normal.
From a husband point of view, you've just got
this huge hole just literally that's been ripped
out of you. A sadness and pain like I'd never
experienced. In terms of me being a father, How
am I supposed to feel that the person who was
my soulmate has been killed by the person I promised
to unconditionally love? It's an absolute mind
bend. Absolute mind bend. The only way I could
deal with this was just to remember the good
times that we'd had. And that was the attitude
that I chose to put on. One of thankfulness for
who Hazel was and for the incredible times that
we'd had with each other. And just recognising
that Jesus is there. He gets it. He gets the
pain. And the best thing I could do was just
literally lift that up to him every time. And
this fits in really with some of the Art of Survival
stuff. At times when I needed to press into it.
a little more than a few minutes, like for an
hour or so, it became my boot camp. I would run
through some of the drills that are in that book.
And I think when we get into aspects of that,
A, being about attitude, that was huge for me
because every day getting up was a battle. And
I thought to myself, I have a choice here. I
can't change what's happened. But what I can
do is I can choose the attitude that I go into
this day with and that I end this day with. And
that was just incredibly helpful for me. We know
from James that when you go through hardships,
if you persevere, that endurance leads to maturity.
And it says in verse 12 that you get the crown
of life. So we're looking at the end goals. It
seems like such a contradiction that you can
see joy through such hardships. But as what I've
learned and from this teaching is the joy is
the outcome. It's an outworking. So my joy is
in that crown of life that when I go to meet
God in heaven, he can say, well done, good and
faithful servant. I have run that race. I have
got through that. It was incredibly hard, but
I did endure. My faith lasted out and here I
am. I've had so many moments when I've been on
my knees saying, Lord, how do I get through this
situation? How do I plan and do a funeral? How
do I ID my wife's body in the mortuary? How do
I go into a courtroom where my eldest son is
going to get sentenced, potentially off the back
of my own testimony? How am I going to go into
the flat where my wife was killed and gather
up all the possessions? How am I going to deal
with that? And so, from the results point of
view, asking for wisdom. in those situations
from the Lord is just so critical. And the thing
about James chapter one is asking and then not
doubting. I either trust God or I don't. I either
trust that he loves me. I either trust that he's
got a future for me and a purpose for me according
to his purposes because I love him or I don't.
There's a really incredible... sentence in one
of the chapters in this book where Chip says,
is my hope determined by the size of my problems
or the certainty of God's promises? Wow. That's
a real leveller in terms of helping you pray
through these things and really helping to focus
on God's goodness and God's kindness. So having
that theology, that real belief in who God is.
and how much he cares and loves for me and for
my sons. You know, God loves my son. I love my
son. And if I can see that mercy and grace and
kindness that God overlays on me, how much more
have I got to do so for my son in this circumstance?
The build -up to the whole trial and sentencing
of my eldest son was incredibly difficult. I
mean, just picture the scene. How are you supposed
to testify in a court and write a victim impact
statement knowing full well that this is going
to be used in the sentencing of your dear son,
knowing that the press are going to get hold
of that and do whatever they want to do with
that? So the amount of preparation for that day.
was absolutely huge. But my prayer going in,
I remember very distinctly waiting outside in
the family room, ready to go in. And I just said,
Lord, make me an instrument. Help me to witness
in this courtroom in some way. Find some way
for me to do this. I just want to lift your name
up. And I went in. The prosecution gave their
statements. The defence gave their statements.
And then I was asked to stand in the witness
box. I read out my victim impact statement. And
right at the end, I knew the camera for the courtroom
was behind my shoulder because my eldest was
on video link from a secure hospital. I put my
notes down. I turned around. I looked at the
camera. And I said, I want the court to know
I forgive my eldest son. I love him so deeply.
The barristers were in tears. Even the judge
was in tears. It had such a profound impact.
When we left the courtroom, The judge asked to
have a private viewing with me. This doesn't
happen. I went back into the courtroom. He walked
over to me. He took his wig off. That doesn't
happen in an English courtroom. He shook my hand
and he said, what you said about forgiveness
for your son is the most powerful thing you could
have said in that courtroom. And I will never
forget it. That wasn't coming from me. That was
coming from being on my knees in prayer and asking
for resource and asking for God's perspective
on that courtroom. There'll be people listening
now that are saying, I don't know how you got
through that guy. That was just so, so tough.
But you know, it's relative. There's always somebody
who's had it harder than you have. I know that
there are people listening to this who will have
suffered losing people through the most horrendous
illnesses. They will have lost children. They'll
have suffered violence. There's all sorts of
things. Grief is so unique to you. I just don't
know how people get through either grief or the
extreme hardship and trauma that I've gone through
without faith. I just don't know how they do
it. So for me, the hardships that I've suffered,
I couldn't have got through them unless I had
literally felt Jesus walking with me side by
side. And he has been there throughout. I've
sensed his presence. And there have been times
when it has been unbearable. But again, I come
back to the resources we've talked about through
the art of survival. When things become that
unbearable, I got a choice. I can literally roll
over and die. Or I can just get on my knees and
I can say, Father God, help me, help me now.
I choose to focus my attention on you. I choose
to cry out to you. I choose to focus on your
goodness and your kindness and your mercy. I
choose to walk out the front door and deliberately
not think about what I've just experienced, but
I'm just going to look at your beautiful creation
and I choose to focus on that for five or ten
minutes. And that'll get me through. The book
of James is not written by chance, that's written
through the lens of Jesus' brother who will have
seen people slaughtered on the streets for their
faith. He knew what he was talking about. And
he also knew where he could go for help. And
his faith was real. It wasn't just a head faith.
It wasn't just a talking faith. It was a doing
faith. My faith teaches me that this battle isn't
against flesh and blood. It is about the unseen
world. And as Christians, we have to be wise
to this. Ephesians chapter 6, it talks about
this daily battle, about us putting on his armor
as we go through our daily life. Irrespective
of what's happened to me over this last year,
I've never lived my life as a Christian believing
it as being anything other than a spiritual battle.
I think one of the hardest times was when I had
to identify the body in the mortuary. I remember
just before I went in, I put my AirPods on and
I listened to I Raise a Hallelujah. I went into
that mortuary with a battle cry. I knelt at the
bedside of my dead wife. I held her hand. I stroked
her hair. And at that point I declared and I
said, Satan, you've made a big mistake. And I'm
going to make you pay for this. Because he who
is in me is greater than he that's in the world.
It was at that point that I felt God was calling
me into being a warrior, to be a holy irritant,
the biggest pain in the backside to the evil
one in whatever way that I can. Like that person
that when they get knocked to the ground just
won't stay down. And that's happened a number
of times in terms of opportunities I've had to
minister to people after Hazel's death. I've
prayed for protection. I've prayed for support
through the Holy Spirit. I've gone in fully armoured.
And I've been able to minister to some people
in the toughest of situations. And it's felt
really, really good. So my process of healing
and restoration continues. That's probably going
to be a lifelong thing. But I have been able
to talk to a number of people about my experiences,
but also about how I've... got through this and
some of the tools that i've been using on a day
-to -day basis i was at a big music festival
fairly recently and one of the stewards who was
helping me get my bags to my tent was asking
about me asking about why i was on my own i told
him a brief part of my story and he broke down
and he said to me that he had just struggled
with his relationship. It had just broken up.
And he'd had struggles with addiction. And right
there and then, from the notes that I had on
my phone, I was able to talk him through the
art of survival. And I sat and ministered to
him for nearly half an hour. I gave him the information
and I gave him the links to the website. And
it was just the most remarkable time. I think
what I would say through all of this... is that
I've had a lot of life experiences which I pray
others don't go through, but they will. I really,
really want to help people and families get through
the complexities of extreme mental health and
loss and addiction. My heart has enlarged tenfold.
But the thing that sits there most with me...
I want to bring the spiritual fight to the enemy.
I want to start taking some ground back in memory
of Hazel. I can honestly say that carrying this
new ministry forward, whatever that looks like
in detail, I don't know yet. But in terms of
wanting to talk about the events, talk about
the last five years, the trials, the hardships
and getting through. I really don't feel that
that is too much to bear. Coming out the back
of that, I just feel so compelled and just so
sure that this is what I need to do. I heard
a very wise person in America, a Christian guy,
talk about, one of the best ways to overcome
trauma, and that was to find meaning in it. That's
not a meaning in the sense of why it happened,
but what you then go on to do. And if I stay
silent on these things, it's almost like Hazel's
death was for nothing, and I'm just not prepared
to go into that space. Now, it might be that
this ministry... It's just for a season. It might
be for a year or two. But it feels to me it's
really important to tell a story and to reach
out because so many people suffer in silence.
They think somebody won't get it. Somebody won't
understand. They don't know where to turn for
help. And it's that old analogy. If I can just
help just one person, it'll be worth it. One
person like me. One person like my youngest son.
It'll be worth it. We've managed to connect through
Hazel's story to literally thousands of people.
One of the incredible benefits of being in a
Christian community is that there are people
that do love and care for you. One of the biggest
challenges that we have in churches is that people
don't really share. i mean share properly share
a level that actually gets into the depth of
our life experience we're very happy to ask for
prayer for kind of the superficial things often
but when we're really struggling with whether
it might be grief matters relating to addiction
all sorts of things we're just rubbish at speaking
up and so my advice to people is get alongside
somebody and start opening up start talking start
properly sharing your life and then get help
because you're not on your own there are many
many people that struggle with mental health
that struggle with addictions of all sorts you're
not on your own we often feel that we are and
it's only by exercising that little bit of vulnerability
holding your hand up and saying i need some help
here That we can help each other through this.
So my advice always would be to make somebody
aware of what it is that you're going through.
Because help is there. But unless people know,
they can't help. The Bible is one big story of
love and restoration. Why do we pull ourselves
out of that and say everything's okay? I'm fine.
It's okay not to be okay. That's an expression
that's used all the time. We just need to get
better at speaking up about that and drawing
friends and colleagues alongside and walking
side by side. You've been listening to Living
on the Edge and this is Chip Ingram. There's
not many times that we pause our entire ministry
and program to let you hear a story. But now
and then there's a story that so resonates, we
find it's absolutely essential to pause. I had
a chance to spend some time with Guy this summer
when I was doing some pastoral training. And
as we met, he said, I could not have made it
through this apart from the support of fellow
believers. You can't go through life alone. I
needed people so badly. Second thing I heard
him say was, you know that little book that you
wrote, The Art of Survival? I may have read that
a few hundred times because when I got to the
point where God, why, and the struggle and the
hurt, living with the death of my wife and dealing
with the reality of my son with a mental illness,
the forgiveness toward him and the journey moving
forward, he said I had to continue to go back
to God is sovereign. God is good. Because in
my experience, it didn't feel that way. And it
was a long, painful journey. But it was God's
Word and God's people and choosing to trust when
my emotions just were all over the place. And
I just want to say to those of you who feel like
there is no hope, God loves you and He's for
you. And if we can help you, we long to. That's
right, Chip. And I think the most impactful,
direct way we can help our listeners is through
our resources. Because as Chip always says, this
is about life transformation. Over the past few
programs, you've heard firsthand how a simple
little book can dramatically alter someone's
life. And that's our goal as a ministry. We want
to see Christians truly living like Christians
for the glory of God and the good of all. So
if you know someone really struggling right now
or going through an unimaginable tragedy, tell
them about the art of survival. It may be the
lifeline or the hope they're desperate for. Visit
livingontheedge .org. to learn more. And while
you're there, let me encourage you to also check
out the powerful video testimony of Guy's story.
You'll better connect with what he went through
and witness with your own eyes the strength of
his faith through this entire experience. So
go to livingontheedge .org today. Well, from
all of us here, I'm Dave Drewy, thanking you
for listening to this edition of Living on the
Edge. I hope you'll join us again next time.