WEBVTT 00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:03.640 This is Chip Ingram, and one of the questions 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:07.259 I hear all the time in the midst of tragedies 00:00:07.259 --> 00:00:09.519 and one of the things I struggle with myself 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:12.720 is when there are devastating things that happen, 00:00:12.820 --> 00:00:15.359 whether it's fire that rips through an entire 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:18.179 town or someone who goes through something that 00:00:18.179 --> 00:00:21.800 is unimaginably painful, and we say, God, where 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:24.620 are you? That is a difficult question we all 00:00:24.620 --> 00:00:27.160 wrestle with, Chip. Well, I'm Dave Drewy, and 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:29.379 coming up today on Living on the Edge, we'll 00:00:29.379 --> 00:00:31.800 share the second half of the incredible testimony 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:34.060 from a fellow believer in the United Kingdom 00:00:34.060 --> 00:00:37.939 named Guy. And as we heard last time, Guy experienced 00:00:37.939 --> 00:00:40.759 one of the most dramatic, heartbreaking circumstances 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:44.380 you'll ever hear. Yet his faith in God helped 00:00:44.380 --> 00:00:47.770 him persevere against all odds. And Chip, I don't 00:00:47.770 --> 00:00:50.149 know about you, but I think Guy really epitomizes 00:00:50.149 --> 00:00:53.890 Proverbs 24, 16, for a righteous person falls 00:00:53.890 --> 00:00:57.369 seven times and rises again. Absolutely, Dave. 00:00:57.609 --> 00:00:59.649 So if you weren't with us yesterday, we're going 00:00:59.649 --> 00:01:02.909 to back up just a few minutes to give you a bit 00:01:02.909 --> 00:01:05.709 of the background. And if you need hope in the 00:01:05.709 --> 00:01:08.629 midst of a challenging time, today you'll hear 00:01:08.629 --> 00:01:13.650 a miraculous story of God meeting us in our deepest, 00:01:13.849 --> 00:01:16.260 deepest need. That's right, Chip. And quickly, 00:01:16.340 --> 00:01:18.519 before we get started, like yesterday, Guy's 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:22.099 story is intended for mature audiences. So if 00:01:22.099 --> 00:01:24.079 you have younger kids listening in, parental 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:27.319 discretion is strongly advised. Well, let's not 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:29.560 waste any more time. Here's the remainder of 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:39.420 Guy's story from tragedy to victory. Let me tell 00:01:39.420 --> 00:01:43.920 you about Hazel, my wife, and our marriage. Hazel 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:48.400 was just the kindest person that I think I'd 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.579 ever met. People used to say that she would light 00:01:51.579 --> 00:01:53.500 up the room, and that's what I used to love about 00:01:53.500 --> 00:01:56.900 her. She had such a heart for people. She cared 00:01:56.900 --> 00:02:01.129 so, so deeply. She had this saying that she always 00:02:01.129 --> 00:02:04.950 wanted to leave people better off than when she 00:02:04.950 --> 00:02:07.549 first met up with them. That was her thing. She 00:02:07.549 --> 00:02:10.689 never liked to leave a conversation or an interaction 00:02:10.689 --> 00:02:14.270 in a bad place. And really, that whole heart 00:02:14.270 --> 00:02:17.469 is, I guess, why I fell in love with her. She 00:02:17.469 --> 00:02:20.949 was really, really personable. We had so many 00:02:20.949 --> 00:02:24.310 years of blessing, a lot of fun, a lot of laughter, 00:02:24.349 --> 00:02:26.870 but as every family, you do have challenges. 00:02:30.729 --> 00:02:33.409 The challenges really started when our eldest 00:02:33.409 --> 00:02:36.629 was going through perhaps his mid teenage years. 00:02:36.909 --> 00:02:40.849 He started to withdraw a lot. He was struggling 00:02:40.849 --> 00:02:45.969 with identity in various different ways and chose 00:02:45.969 --> 00:02:49.729 to cope with that through self -medication of 00:02:49.729 --> 00:02:53.490 drugs and alcohol. And then a few years later, 00:02:53.550 --> 00:02:57.210 when the problems with substance abuse got worse, 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.539 it became very clear that there were underlying 00:03:00.539 --> 00:03:04.919 mental health issues. He was diagnosed with autism, 00:03:05.139 --> 00:03:08.860 in fact, two types of autism, Asperger's and 00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:13.479 BPD, which are really complex forms of autism. 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:16.639 They fight against each other. And this really 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:21.379 caused him a lot of distress. He got to the point 00:03:21.379 --> 00:03:24.439 where he was very, very paranoid about all sorts 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:27.699 of things. And this paranoia then started to 00:03:27.699 --> 00:03:32.680 lead to psychosis. He had five suicide attempts, 00:03:32.979 --> 00:03:38.599 multiple self -harm. A number of times he tripped 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:41.740 into psychosis and became extremely threatening. 00:03:42.620 --> 00:03:46.659 It was at that point that he got sectioned and 00:03:46.659 --> 00:03:50.719 was put in a secure hospital. He was then released. 00:03:51.139 --> 00:03:53.659 We were really concerned about the nature of 00:03:53.659 --> 00:03:58.060 that release. we managed to find him a flat where 00:03:58.060 --> 00:04:01.199 at least he could be safe and have a space that 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:06.780 he could feel was secure for himself. It was 00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:09.840 three weeks later and our youngest son graduated 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.139 from university and we enjoyed, we celebrated 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:17.019 that. And then as we were coming home from the 00:04:17.019 --> 00:04:19.660 graduation, we got a phone call from our eldest 00:04:19.660 --> 00:04:22.480 son saying that he really needed help cleaning 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:27.629 the flat. So Hazel, being the person that she 00:04:27.629 --> 00:04:31.050 was, said that she would go and do that. I had 00:04:31.050 --> 00:04:33.329 some work to do for a big church meeting coming 00:04:33.329 --> 00:04:36.790 up, and I dropped her off at the flat and went 00:04:36.790 --> 00:04:40.949 off to a cafe for a few hours. At pick -up time, 00:04:41.089 --> 00:04:46.550 I came to find her, to pick her up, and put in 00:04:46.550 --> 00:04:51.129 a phone call, but there was no answer. I tried 00:04:51.129 --> 00:04:54.300 ringing. hazel's phone i tried ringing my eldest 00:04:54.300 --> 00:05:00.439 son's phone and there was nothing i started to 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:03.680 bang on the door a lot louder shouting up to 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:07.560 be let in and then i got a text from my eldest 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:14.360 son saying dad call the police so i did and then 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.879 whilst i was on the phone to the police explaining 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:21.810 the history He sent me a text saying he'd killed 00:05:21.810 --> 00:05:34.689 her. At that point, I totally lost it. I was 00:05:34.689 --> 00:05:37.410 kicking the door as hard as I could, screaming 00:05:37.410 --> 00:05:41.449 in the middle of the street to be let in. The 00:05:41.449 --> 00:05:45.089 police came. They took me in the police car to 00:05:45.089 --> 00:05:47.589 a police station and I was video interviewed 00:05:47.589 --> 00:05:52.660 for an hour and a half. And then after that, 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:58.399 they told me that she was dead. I think as a 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:02.060 father and as a husband, you have such competing 00:06:02.060 --> 00:06:04.639 thoughts going on. I mean, none of this is normal. 00:06:04.899 --> 00:06:07.180 From a husband point of view, you've just got 00:06:07.180 --> 00:06:09.720 this huge hole just literally that's been ripped 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:14.360 out of you. A sadness and pain like I'd never 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:20.180 experienced. In terms of me being a father, How 00:06:20.180 --> 00:06:25.139 am I supposed to feel that the person who was 00:06:25.139 --> 00:06:28.879 my soulmate has been killed by the person I promised 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:32.740 to unconditionally love? It's an absolute mind 00:06:32.740 --> 00:06:41.259 bend. Absolute mind bend. The only way I could 00:06:41.259 --> 00:06:44.379 deal with this was just to remember the good 00:06:44.379 --> 00:06:47.100 times that we'd had. And that was the attitude 00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:50.930 that I chose to put on. One of thankfulness for 00:06:50.930 --> 00:06:53.990 who Hazel was and for the incredible times that 00:06:53.990 --> 00:06:57.089 we'd had with each other. And just recognising 00:06:57.089 --> 00:07:01.810 that Jesus is there. He gets it. He gets the 00:07:01.810 --> 00:07:04.870 pain. And the best thing I could do was just 00:07:04.870 --> 00:07:09.430 literally lift that up to him every time. And 00:07:09.430 --> 00:07:12.110 this fits in really with some of the Art of Survival 00:07:12.110 --> 00:07:15.810 stuff. At times when I needed to press into it. 00:07:16.250 --> 00:07:18.490 a little more than a few minutes, like for an 00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:21.329 hour or so, it became my boot camp. I would run 00:07:21.329 --> 00:07:23.290 through some of the drills that are in that book. 00:07:23.910 --> 00:07:27.269 And I think when we get into aspects of that, 00:07:27.389 --> 00:07:30.209 A, being about attitude, that was huge for me 00:07:30.209 --> 00:07:32.970 because every day getting up was a battle. And 00:07:32.970 --> 00:07:36.089 I thought to myself, I have a choice here. I 00:07:36.089 --> 00:07:39.529 can't change what's happened. But what I can 00:07:39.529 --> 00:07:42.350 do is I can choose the attitude that I go into 00:07:42.350 --> 00:07:45.829 this day with and that I end this day with. And 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:49.649 that was just incredibly helpful for me. We know 00:07:49.649 --> 00:07:51.649 from James that when you go through hardships, 00:07:51.829 --> 00:07:55.149 if you persevere, that endurance leads to maturity. 00:07:55.810 --> 00:07:59.610 And it says in verse 12 that you get the crown 00:07:59.610 --> 00:08:02.329 of life. So we're looking at the end goals. It 00:08:02.329 --> 00:08:04.910 seems like such a contradiction that you can 00:08:04.910 --> 00:08:08.550 see joy through such hardships. But as what I've 00:08:08.550 --> 00:08:12.850 learned and from this teaching is the joy is 00:08:12.850 --> 00:08:17.490 the outcome. It's an outworking. So my joy is 00:08:17.490 --> 00:08:20.810 in that crown of life that when I go to meet 00:08:20.810 --> 00:08:24.569 God in heaven, he can say, well done, good and 00:08:24.569 --> 00:08:27.750 faithful servant. I have run that race. I have 00:08:27.750 --> 00:08:30.810 got through that. It was incredibly hard, but 00:08:30.810 --> 00:08:34.549 I did endure. My faith lasted out and here I 00:08:34.549 --> 00:08:40.070 am. I've had so many moments when I've been on 00:08:40.070 --> 00:08:43.090 my knees saying, Lord, how do I get through this 00:08:43.090 --> 00:08:47.200 situation? How do I plan and do a funeral? How 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:51.480 do I ID my wife's body in the mortuary? How do 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:55.440 I go into a courtroom where my eldest son is 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:57.700 going to get sentenced, potentially off the back 00:08:57.700 --> 00:09:01.320 of my own testimony? How am I going to go into 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:04.679 the flat where my wife was killed and gather 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:07.899 up all the possessions? How am I going to deal 00:09:07.899 --> 00:09:11.320 with that? And so, from the results point of 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:14.379 view, asking for wisdom. in those situations 00:09:14.379 --> 00:09:18.259 from the Lord is just so critical. And the thing 00:09:18.259 --> 00:09:22.639 about James chapter one is asking and then not 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:27.720 doubting. I either trust God or I don't. I either 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:30.840 trust that he loves me. I either trust that he's 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:33.879 got a future for me and a purpose for me according 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:38.120 to his purposes because I love him or I don't. 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:43.320 There's a really incredible... sentence in one 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.019 of the chapters in this book where Chip says, 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.080 is my hope determined by the size of my problems 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:55.779 or the certainty of God's promises? Wow. That's 00:09:55.779 --> 00:09:59.000 a real leveller in terms of helping you pray 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:02.100 through these things and really helping to focus 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:05.960 on God's goodness and God's kindness. So having 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.639 that theology, that real belief in who God is. 00:10:10.250 --> 00:10:13.250 and how much he cares and loves for me and for 00:10:13.250 --> 00:10:19.450 my sons. You know, God loves my son. I love my 00:10:19.450 --> 00:10:24.350 son. And if I can see that mercy and grace and 00:10:24.350 --> 00:10:31.649 kindness that God overlays on me, how much more 00:10:31.649 --> 00:10:34.769 have I got to do so for my son in this circumstance? 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:43.639 The build -up to the whole trial and sentencing 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:47.500 of my eldest son was incredibly difficult. I 00:10:47.500 --> 00:10:49.379 mean, just picture the scene. How are you supposed 00:10:49.379 --> 00:10:54.000 to testify in a court and write a victim impact 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:57.139 statement knowing full well that this is going 00:10:57.139 --> 00:11:00.440 to be used in the sentencing of your dear son, 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:03.259 knowing that the press are going to get hold 00:11:03.259 --> 00:11:05.679 of that and do whatever they want to do with 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:09.039 that? So the amount of preparation for that day. 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.480 was absolutely huge. But my prayer going in, 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:17.440 I remember very distinctly waiting outside in 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:23.779 the family room, ready to go in. And I just said, 00:11:23.980 --> 00:11:29.179 Lord, make me an instrument. Help me to witness 00:11:29.179 --> 00:11:33.820 in this courtroom in some way. Find some way 00:11:33.820 --> 00:11:37.980 for me to do this. I just want to lift your name 00:11:37.980 --> 00:11:46.419 up. And I went in. The prosecution gave their 00:11:46.419 --> 00:11:50.519 statements. The defence gave their statements. 00:11:50.539 --> 00:11:52.519 And then I was asked to stand in the witness 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:58.759 box. I read out my victim impact statement. And 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:02.460 right at the end, I knew the camera for the courtroom 00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:07.580 was behind my shoulder because my eldest was 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:10.570 on video link from a secure hospital. I put my 00:12:10.570 --> 00:12:14.509 notes down. I turned around. I looked at the 00:12:14.509 --> 00:12:18.889 camera. And I said, I want the court to know 00:12:18.889 --> 00:12:24.389 I forgive my eldest son. I love him so deeply. 00:12:28.210 --> 00:12:31.730 The barristers were in tears. Even the judge 00:12:31.730 --> 00:12:35.549 was in tears. It had such a profound impact. 00:12:36.649 --> 00:12:39.779 When we left the courtroom, The judge asked to 00:12:39.779 --> 00:12:42.720 have a private viewing with me. This doesn't 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:47.179 happen. I went back into the courtroom. He walked 00:12:47.179 --> 00:12:51.720 over to me. He took his wig off. That doesn't 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:55.600 happen in an English courtroom. He shook my hand 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:59.899 and he said, what you said about forgiveness 00:12:59.899 --> 00:13:03.539 for your son is the most powerful thing you could 00:13:03.539 --> 00:13:07.919 have said in that courtroom. And I will never 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:14.440 forget it. That wasn't coming from me. That was 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:17.639 coming from being on my knees in prayer and asking 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:22.159 for resource and asking for God's perspective 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:27.679 on that courtroom. There'll be people listening 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:31.299 now that are saying, I don't know how you got 00:13:31.299 --> 00:13:35.879 through that guy. That was just so, so tough. 00:13:36.409 --> 00:13:41.110 But you know, it's relative. There's always somebody 00:13:41.110 --> 00:13:44.590 who's had it harder than you have. I know that 00:13:44.590 --> 00:13:47.649 there are people listening to this who will have 00:13:47.649 --> 00:13:50.429 suffered losing people through the most horrendous 00:13:50.429 --> 00:13:54.509 illnesses. They will have lost children. They'll 00:13:54.509 --> 00:13:57.610 have suffered violence. There's all sorts of 00:13:57.610 --> 00:14:04.019 things. Grief is so unique to you. I just don't 00:14:04.019 --> 00:14:07.659 know how people get through either grief or the 00:14:07.659 --> 00:14:09.879 extreme hardship and trauma that I've gone through 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:12.059 without faith. I just don't know how they do 00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:17.039 it. So for me, the hardships that I've suffered, 00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:20.460 I couldn't have got through them unless I had 00:14:20.460 --> 00:14:22.799 literally felt Jesus walking with me side by 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:26.220 side. And he has been there throughout. I've 00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:30.320 sensed his presence. And there have been times 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.960 when it has been unbearable. But again, I come 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:35.539 back to the resources we've talked about through 00:14:35.539 --> 00:14:39.179 the art of survival. When things become that 00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:43.940 unbearable, I got a choice. I can literally roll 00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:47.460 over and die. Or I can just get on my knees and 00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:49.799 I can say, Father God, help me, help me now. 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:55.200 I choose to focus my attention on you. I choose 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.159 to cry out to you. I choose to focus on your 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.460 goodness and your kindness and your mercy. I 00:15:01.460 --> 00:15:04.139 choose to walk out the front door and deliberately 00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:07.159 not think about what I've just experienced, but 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.320 I'm just going to look at your beautiful creation 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:12.240 and I choose to focus on that for five or ten 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:16.440 minutes. And that'll get me through. The book 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:18.620 of James is not written by chance, that's written 00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:22.299 through the lens of Jesus' brother who will have 00:15:22.299 --> 00:15:24.240 seen people slaughtered on the streets for their 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.659 faith. He knew what he was talking about. And 00:15:28.659 --> 00:15:32.240 he also knew where he could go for help. And 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.779 his faith was real. It wasn't just a head faith. 00:15:35.059 --> 00:15:38.019 It wasn't just a talking faith. It was a doing 00:15:38.019 --> 00:15:42.500 faith. My faith teaches me that this battle isn't 00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:45.840 against flesh and blood. It is about the unseen 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.279 world. And as Christians, we have to be wise 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:53.059 to this. Ephesians chapter 6, it talks about 00:15:53.059 --> 00:15:56.480 this daily battle, about us putting on his armor 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.480 as we go through our daily life. Irrespective 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:02.419 of what's happened to me over this last year, 00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:05.120 I've never lived my life as a Christian believing 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:08.139 it as being anything other than a spiritual battle. 00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:12.080 I think one of the hardest times was when I had 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:16.919 to identify the body in the mortuary. I remember 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:22.139 just before I went in, I put my AirPods on and 00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:24.759 I listened to I Raise a Hallelujah. I went into 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:29.700 that mortuary with a battle cry. I knelt at the 00:16:29.700 --> 00:16:36.639 bedside of my dead wife. I held her hand. I stroked 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:41.600 her hair. And at that point I declared and I 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:45.299 said, Satan, you've made a big mistake. And I'm 00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:48.379 going to make you pay for this. Because he who 00:16:48.379 --> 00:16:51.860 is in me is greater than he that's in the world. 00:16:53.419 --> 00:16:57.980 It was at that point that I felt God was calling 00:16:57.980 --> 00:17:02.799 me into being a warrior, to be a holy irritant, 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:05.920 the biggest pain in the backside to the evil 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:10.220 one in whatever way that I can. Like that person 00:17:10.220 --> 00:17:12.640 that when they get knocked to the ground just 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.940 won't stay down. And that's happened a number 00:17:16.940 --> 00:17:19.380 of times in terms of opportunities I've had to 00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:24.309 minister to people after Hazel's death. I've 00:17:24.309 --> 00:17:26.589 prayed for protection. I've prayed for support 00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:29.890 through the Holy Spirit. I've gone in fully armoured. 00:17:30.569 --> 00:17:32.750 And I've been able to minister to some people 00:17:32.750 --> 00:17:36.109 in the toughest of situations. And it's felt 00:17:36.109 --> 00:17:40.470 really, really good. So my process of healing 00:17:40.470 --> 00:17:43.589 and restoration continues. That's probably going 00:17:43.589 --> 00:17:46.650 to be a lifelong thing. But I have been able 00:17:46.650 --> 00:17:49.569 to talk to a number of people about my experiences, 00:17:49.690 --> 00:17:52.589 but also about how I've... got through this and 00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:55.509 some of the tools that i've been using on a day 00:17:55.509 --> 00:17:59.829 -to -day basis i was at a big music festival 00:17:59.829 --> 00:18:03.130 fairly recently and one of the stewards who was 00:18:03.130 --> 00:18:07.049 helping me get my bags to my tent was asking 00:18:07.049 --> 00:18:11.150 about me asking about why i was on my own i told 00:18:11.150 --> 00:18:13.690 him a brief part of my story and he broke down 00:18:13.690 --> 00:18:18.890 and he said to me that he had just struggled 00:18:18.890 --> 00:18:22.049 with his relationship. It had just broken up. 00:18:22.809 --> 00:18:26.230 And he'd had struggles with addiction. And right 00:18:26.230 --> 00:18:28.589 there and then, from the notes that I had on 00:18:28.589 --> 00:18:30.630 my phone, I was able to talk him through the 00:18:30.630 --> 00:18:33.990 art of survival. And I sat and ministered to 00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:37.369 him for nearly half an hour. I gave him the information 00:18:37.369 --> 00:18:40.509 and I gave him the links to the website. And 00:18:40.509 --> 00:18:43.970 it was just the most remarkable time. I think 00:18:43.970 --> 00:18:47.410 what I would say through all of this... is that 00:18:47.410 --> 00:18:51.750 I've had a lot of life experiences which I pray 00:18:51.750 --> 00:18:56.210 others don't go through, but they will. I really, 00:18:56.250 --> 00:18:59.990 really want to help people and families get through 00:18:59.990 --> 00:19:03.990 the complexities of extreme mental health and 00:19:03.990 --> 00:19:09.509 loss and addiction. My heart has enlarged tenfold. 00:19:11.210 --> 00:19:14.309 But the thing that sits there most with me... 00:19:14.730 --> 00:19:17.549 I want to bring the spiritual fight to the enemy. 00:19:18.130 --> 00:19:22.269 I want to start taking some ground back in memory 00:19:22.269 --> 00:19:30.809 of Hazel. I can honestly say that carrying this 00:19:30.809 --> 00:19:35.210 new ministry forward, whatever that looks like 00:19:35.210 --> 00:19:39.549 in detail, I don't know yet. But in terms of 00:19:39.549 --> 00:19:43.059 wanting to talk about the events, talk about 00:19:43.059 --> 00:19:46.500 the last five years, the trials, the hardships 00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:51.220 and getting through. I really don't feel that 00:19:51.220 --> 00:19:56.259 that is too much to bear. Coming out the back 00:19:56.259 --> 00:20:00.500 of that, I just feel so compelled and just so 00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:05.180 sure that this is what I need to do. I heard 00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:09.460 a very wise person in America, a Christian guy, 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:12.400 talk about, one of the best ways to overcome 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:18.380 trauma, and that was to find meaning in it. That's 00:20:18.380 --> 00:20:20.660 not a meaning in the sense of why it happened, 00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:25.079 but what you then go on to do. And if I stay 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:29.160 silent on these things, it's almost like Hazel's 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:32.259 death was for nothing, and I'm just not prepared 00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:36.779 to go into that space. Now, it might be that 00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:39.839 this ministry... It's just for a season. It might 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:45.099 be for a year or two. But it feels to me it's 00:20:45.099 --> 00:20:49.220 really important to tell a story and to reach 00:20:49.220 --> 00:20:52.799 out because so many people suffer in silence. 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:55.980 They think somebody won't get it. Somebody won't 00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:57.940 understand. They don't know where to turn for 00:20:57.940 --> 00:21:03.559 help. And it's that old analogy. If I can just 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:08.220 help just one person, it'll be worth it. One 00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:11.980 person like me. One person like my youngest son. 00:21:13.660 --> 00:21:18.140 It'll be worth it. We've managed to connect through 00:21:18.140 --> 00:21:21.839 Hazel's story to literally thousands of people. 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:25.519 One of the incredible benefits of being in a 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.799 Christian community is that there are people 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:31.220 that do love and care for you. One of the biggest 00:21:31.220 --> 00:21:34.279 challenges that we have in churches is that people 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:37.509 don't really share. i mean share properly share 00:21:37.509 --> 00:21:41.009 a level that actually gets into the depth of 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:44.029 our life experience we're very happy to ask for 00:21:44.029 --> 00:21:46.769 prayer for kind of the superficial things often 00:21:46.769 --> 00:21:50.369 but when we're really struggling with whether 00:21:50.369 --> 00:21:54.890 it might be grief matters relating to addiction 00:21:54.890 --> 00:21:59.009 all sorts of things we're just rubbish at speaking 00:21:59.009 --> 00:22:03.950 up and so my advice to people is get alongside 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:07.509 somebody and start opening up start talking start 00:22:07.509 --> 00:22:11.849 properly sharing your life and then get help 00:22:11.849 --> 00:22:15.130 because you're not on your own there are many 00:22:15.130 --> 00:22:18.869 many people that struggle with mental health 00:22:18.869 --> 00:22:22.109 that struggle with addictions of all sorts you're 00:22:22.109 --> 00:22:25.309 not on your own we often feel that we are and 00:22:25.309 --> 00:22:28.950 it's only by exercising that little bit of vulnerability 00:22:28.950 --> 00:22:32.869 holding your hand up and saying i need some help 00:22:32.869 --> 00:22:35.470 here That we can help each other through this. 00:22:35.529 --> 00:22:39.150 So my advice always would be to make somebody 00:22:39.150 --> 00:22:41.250 aware of what it is that you're going through. 00:22:42.130 --> 00:22:46.410 Because help is there. But unless people know, 00:22:46.589 --> 00:22:52.470 they can't help. The Bible is one big story of 00:22:52.470 --> 00:22:55.809 love and restoration. Why do we pull ourselves 00:22:55.809 --> 00:22:59.329 out of that and say everything's okay? I'm fine. 00:23:00.390 --> 00:23:04.130 It's okay not to be okay. That's an expression 00:23:04.130 --> 00:23:07.009 that's used all the time. We just need to get 00:23:07.009 --> 00:23:11.190 better at speaking up about that and drawing 00:23:11.190 --> 00:23:15.509 friends and colleagues alongside and walking 00:23:15.509 --> 00:23:27.250 side by side. You've been listening to Living 00:23:27.250 --> 00:23:29.730 on the Edge and this is Chip Ingram. There's 00:23:29.730 --> 00:23:32.269 not many times that we pause our entire ministry 00:23:32.269 --> 00:23:35.470 and program to let you hear a story. But now 00:23:35.470 --> 00:23:39.150 and then there's a story that so resonates, we 00:23:39.150 --> 00:23:42.950 find it's absolutely essential to pause. I had 00:23:42.950 --> 00:23:45.670 a chance to spend some time with Guy this summer 00:23:45.670 --> 00:23:48.509 when I was doing some pastoral training. And 00:23:48.509 --> 00:23:51.670 as we met, he said, I could not have made it 00:23:51.670 --> 00:23:55.349 through this apart from the support of fellow 00:23:55.349 --> 00:23:59.400 believers. You can't go through life alone. I 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.519 needed people so badly. Second thing I heard 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:05.279 him say was, you know that little book that you 00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.160 wrote, The Art of Survival? I may have read that 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.099 a few hundred times because when I got to the 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:14.319 point where God, why, and the struggle and the 00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:18.460 hurt, living with the death of my wife and dealing 00:24:18.460 --> 00:24:21.359 with the reality of my son with a mental illness, 00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:24.559 the forgiveness toward him and the journey moving 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:27.799 forward, he said I had to continue to go back 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:31.940 to God is sovereign. God is good. Because in 00:24:31.940 --> 00:24:34.640 my experience, it didn't feel that way. And it 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.059 was a long, painful journey. But it was God's 00:24:38.059 --> 00:24:42.420 Word and God's people and choosing to trust when 00:24:42.420 --> 00:24:47.000 my emotions just were all over the place. And 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.539 I just want to say to those of you who feel like 00:24:49.539 --> 00:24:53.319 there is no hope, God loves you and He's for 00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:57.869 you. And if we can help you, we long to. That's 00:24:57.869 --> 00:24:59.769 right, Chip. And I think the most impactful, 00:24:59.849 --> 00:25:02.390 direct way we can help our listeners is through 00:25:02.390 --> 00:25:05.509 our resources. Because as Chip always says, this 00:25:05.509 --> 00:25:08.730 is about life transformation. Over the past few 00:25:08.730 --> 00:25:11.089 programs, you've heard firsthand how a simple 00:25:11.089 --> 00:25:13.509 little book can dramatically alter someone's 00:25:13.509 --> 00:25:16.450 life. And that's our goal as a ministry. We want 00:25:16.450 --> 00:25:19.170 to see Christians truly living like Christians 00:25:19.170 --> 00:25:22.440 for the glory of God and the good of all. So 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.380 if you know someone really struggling right now 00:25:24.380 --> 00:25:27.220 or going through an unimaginable tragedy, tell 00:25:27.220 --> 00:25:30.240 them about the art of survival. It may be the 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.099 lifeline or the hope they're desperate for. Visit 00:25:33.099 --> 00:25:36.750 livingontheedge .org. to learn more. And while 00:25:36.750 --> 00:25:38.730 you're there, let me encourage you to also check 00:25:38.730 --> 00:25:41.369 out the powerful video testimony of Guy's story. 00:25:41.529 --> 00:25:43.529 You'll better connect with what he went through 00:25:43.529 --> 00:25:46.210 and witness with your own eyes the strength of 00:25:46.210 --> 00:25:49.109 his faith through this entire experience. So 00:25:49.109 --> 00:25:53.670 go to livingontheedge .org today. Well, from 00:25:53.670 --> 00:25:55.849 all of us here, I'm Dave Drewy, thanking you 00:25:55.849 --> 00:25:57.970 for listening to this edition of Living on the 00:25:57.970 --> 00:26:00.410 Edge. I hope you'll join us again next time.