WEBVTT 00:00:01.480 --> 00:00:03.980 Christianity and Christians are taking a lot 00:00:03.980 --> 00:00:07.099 of criticism in our day. Some to be sure is deserved. 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:11.060 We failed to live out our faith. But our ignorance 00:00:11.060 --> 00:00:14.199 concerning the bedrock values and the impact 00:00:14.199 --> 00:00:17.160 of faithful Christians is far more dangerous. 00:00:17.460 --> 00:00:20.960 We have to go back to our roots. We have to know 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:23.940 what we believe and how those who came before 00:00:23.940 --> 00:00:26.420 us have lived out the faith to change the world. 00:00:26.699 --> 00:00:31.510 That's today. Stick around. Thanks for being 00:00:31.510 --> 00:00:34.149 with us for this edition of Living on the Edge 00:00:34.149 --> 00:00:37.130 with Chip Ingram. We are a global teaching and 00:00:37.130 --> 00:00:39.649 discipleship ministry helping Christians develop 00:00:39.649 --> 00:00:42.590 an authentic faith. As many of you know, Chip's 00:00:42.590 --> 00:00:44.710 our regular Bible teacher, but for this series, 00:00:44.869 --> 00:00:47.329 Dealing with Doubts, he's asked his friend John 00:00:47.329 --> 00:00:49.789 Dickerson to teach a few messages and share his 00:00:49.789 --> 00:00:52.289 unique insight. We pray you've learned a lot 00:00:52.289 --> 00:00:54.289 through their joint approach to such a meaningful 00:00:54.289 --> 00:00:57.320 topic. And to help others absorb the truths and 00:00:57.320 --> 00:00:59.759 application of this series, take a minute after 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:01.979 the message and share it. You can do that through 00:01:01.979 --> 00:01:04.260 the Chippengram app or by downloading the free 00:01:04.260 --> 00:01:08.219 MP3s that you'll find at livingontheedge .org. 00:01:08.700 --> 00:01:10.980 Well, with that, let's join John for the second 00:01:10.980 --> 00:01:13.859 half of his talk, Jesus and Freedom for the People 00:01:13.859 --> 00:01:17.760 You Love. Just imagine if right now there were 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:20.739 no universities in the United States, the roads 00:01:20.739 --> 00:01:23.250 that you drove on today to get here, wouldn't 00:01:23.250 --> 00:01:24.969 be like that because there wouldn't be engineers 00:01:24.969 --> 00:01:27.730 trained to grade and design the road like that. 00:01:28.269 --> 00:01:32.390 The vehicle you have wouldn't exist. The electricity 00:01:32.390 --> 00:01:34.189 you had that you can turn on the lights, it wouldn't 00:01:34.189 --> 00:01:37.069 be there. Without the university, you remove 00:01:37.069 --> 00:01:40.430 that one thing from the last 1 ,000 years, and 00:01:40.430 --> 00:01:42.769 we're back in the dark ages. So where did the 00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:46.549 university system come from? Well, we don't have 00:01:46.549 --> 00:01:49.230 to have an opinion about this or guess because 00:01:49.230 --> 00:01:52.140 it's documented. The university system as we 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:55.359 know it started about 1 ,000 years ago in Europe, 00:01:55.459 --> 00:01:59.439 and it started in Christian cathedrals. I'll 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:01.560 show you here the crest of Oxford University, 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:03.920 which is still ranked the number one university 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:07.859 in the world. Oxford was founded in 1096 AD, 00:02:07.980 --> 00:02:11.120 so it is almost 1 ,000 years old. This crest 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:13.900 has three crowns on it, which are symbolic of 00:02:13.900 --> 00:02:16.449 the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This 00:02:16.449 --> 00:02:18.530 crest in the middle has some Latin words. What 00:02:18.530 --> 00:02:20.270 do those Latin words say? They say this. The 00:02:20.270 --> 00:02:24.370 Lord is my light. Education was called the light 00:02:24.370 --> 00:02:28.250 of learning. And the whole idea was that the 00:02:28.250 --> 00:02:31.990 light of learning would enlighten society so 00:02:31.990 --> 00:02:33.889 that people could treat each other the way Jesus 00:02:33.889 --> 00:02:37.310 said. Now, the church that Oxford grew out of, 00:02:37.330 --> 00:02:39.569 was it a perfect church? No. Churches tend to 00:02:39.569 --> 00:02:42.319 get corrupted throughout history. They get a 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:44.219 lot of power and money, and they tend to get 00:02:44.219 --> 00:02:47.300 corrupted. But every time that happens, there's 00:02:47.300 --> 00:02:49.759 a band of sincere followers of Jesus who say, 00:02:49.819 --> 00:02:51.599 hey, this isn't about Jesus anymore. We're going 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:53.939 to break off, and we're going to get back to 00:02:53.939 --> 00:02:56.580 following Jesus. And that happens all throughout 00:02:56.580 --> 00:03:01.759 history. Oxford is not unique in being founded 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:04.939 as a Christian university. The word university 00:03:04.939 --> 00:03:07.560 actually comes from a Latin word for all things, 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:10.819 universita. And these were cathedral schools 00:03:10.819 --> 00:03:13.759 that were at the largest Christian cathedrals 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:15.120 throughout Europe. And they said, we're going 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:18.479 to start to teach all things, universita. So 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:21.900 if you trace the first seed universities like 00:03:21.900 --> 00:03:24.479 Oxford, you'll find about a dozen of them throughout 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:27.639 Europe. All of them grew out of Christian cathedrals. 00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:30.979 All of them have overtly Christian foundings 00:03:30.979 --> 00:03:34.939 like this. Those universities would then train 00:03:34.939 --> 00:03:38.669 up people like Isaac Newton. Now, if you were 00:03:38.669 --> 00:03:41.789 to ask who's the most influential scientist in 00:03:41.789 --> 00:03:45.509 all of history, who has transformed society so 00:03:45.509 --> 00:03:47.949 that we now live in the modern era? You know 00:03:47.949 --> 00:03:50.530 who I'd like to ask that question to? Albert 00:03:50.530 --> 00:03:53.370 Einstein. Albert Einstein, who would you say 00:03:53.370 --> 00:03:56.330 is the most influential scientist ever? And he 00:03:56.330 --> 00:03:58.530 answered that question, and he said, it's Isaac 00:03:58.530 --> 00:04:01.129 Newton. You know, you were taught about him with 00:04:01.129 --> 00:04:04.509 the apple and gravity, that guy. Isaac Newton 00:04:04.509 --> 00:04:08.050 unlocked the cabinets of science for all of humanity. 00:04:08.110 --> 00:04:10.750 And soon after that would be the Industrial Revolution 00:04:10.750 --> 00:04:13.590 and the modern era because of Isaac Newton's 00:04:13.590 --> 00:04:17.149 learnings. Behind me here is a picture of one 00:04:17.149 --> 00:04:20.269 of the pages of Isaac Newton's journals. He was 00:04:20.269 --> 00:04:23.350 prolific. There are tens of thousands of pages. 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:26.620 Now, if you know anything about ancient languages, 00:04:26.660 --> 00:04:29.579 you see at the top there Hebrew on the third 00:04:29.579 --> 00:04:31.500 line. That's the Hebrew language, the Jewish 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:33.420 language. It's what the Old Testament is written 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:36.759 in. See, Isaac Newton started as a theology student. 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:41.040 He learned ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek and 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.279 ancient Aramaic. He would go into the libraries 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:46.819 at Cambridge and Oxford, and he would pull out 00:04:46.819 --> 00:04:50.290 ancient manuscripts of the Bible. And all of 00:04:50.290 --> 00:04:53.170 this is documented. He would do these mathematical 00:04:53.170 --> 00:04:57.009 calculations from the Old Testament. He made 00:04:57.009 --> 00:04:59.949 predictions based on those. And for Isaac Newton, 00:05:00.050 --> 00:05:02.550 if you read his works like Principia, one of 00:05:02.550 --> 00:05:05.569 his most seminal works, you'll find that his 00:05:05.569 --> 00:05:09.990 theology and his science were hand in hand. He 00:05:09.990 --> 00:05:13.790 was a devoted follower of Jesus. And we don't 00:05:13.790 --> 00:05:15.889 know that from people's opinions. We know that 00:05:15.889 --> 00:05:19.399 because we can read his own writings. You might 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:21.379 think, well, is Isaac Newton some weird anomaly 00:05:21.379 --> 00:05:24.920 or exception? Here's the bottom line. Johannes 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:27.819 Kepler, who gave you your eyeglasses. Blaise 00:05:27.819 --> 00:05:30.720 Pascal. Robert Boyle, who gave us Boyle's Law, 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:32.959 the father of modern chemistry. And the list 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:36.879 goes on. If you take a secular atheist list of 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:39.660 the most influential scientists in the scientific 00:05:39.660 --> 00:05:42.569 revolution. And then you look at their own primary 00:05:42.569 --> 00:05:45.350 writings, you'll find that over 90 % of them 00:05:45.350 --> 00:05:48.810 were Christians and that over 70 % of them wrote 00:05:48.810 --> 00:05:52.529 passionate things like Kepler and Pascal and 00:05:52.529 --> 00:05:55.370 Isaac Newton about their faith in God. Here's 00:05:55.370 --> 00:05:57.790 an excerpt from one of those journals of Isaac 00:05:57.790 --> 00:06:01.490 Newton. He wrote, this is life eternal, that 00:06:01.490 --> 00:06:05.449 they might know the only true God and Jesus Christ 00:06:05.449 --> 00:06:09.370 whom thou has sent. Now, here's my point. I'm 00:06:09.370 --> 00:06:11.649 not saying that Isaac Newton was perfect or that 00:06:11.649 --> 00:06:14.009 any Christian was perfect. The only perfect person 00:06:14.009 --> 00:06:18.170 is Jesus. But when people form a whole group 00:06:18.170 --> 00:06:20.250 and say, we're going to try to obey the word 00:06:20.250 --> 00:06:24.170 of God, it leads the people around them up into 00:06:24.170 --> 00:06:27.170 more freedom, more dignity for the people around 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:31.129 them. And this would be my assessment based on 00:06:31.129 --> 00:06:33.709 the hundreds of ancient documents that I compile 00:06:33.709 --> 00:06:36.269 in the book, Jesus Skeptic. that we live in a 00:06:36.269 --> 00:06:40.029 society that is the result of a pursuit of truth. 00:06:40.910 --> 00:06:43.970 It's almost like climbing a mountain. Graduates 00:06:43.970 --> 00:06:45.949 of Cambridge would cross the Atlantic and start 00:06:45.949 --> 00:06:48.209 Harvard University, started by the Reverend John 00:06:48.209 --> 00:06:51.310 Harvard, a pastor. And its seminary graduates 00:06:51.310 --> 00:06:54.310 would go start Yale and Princeton. Their graduates 00:06:54.310 --> 00:06:56.870 would start the University of Michigan and IU 00:06:56.870 --> 00:07:00.160 and Butler. And literally the entire university 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:03.600 system that we know today can all be traced back 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:06.079 here in the US to Harvard, which traces back 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:08.519 to Cambridge and Oxford. And all of them were 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:11.680 overtly founded to teach the Bible. Clearly, 00:07:11.899 --> 00:07:14.660 that's not their main thing anymore. But they 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:17.660 and their graduates have brought more light to 00:07:17.660 --> 00:07:19.579 the world than perhaps any other movement in 00:07:19.579 --> 00:07:23.339 history. Now, if you want to get nerdy like me 00:07:23.339 --> 00:07:26.040 in the late 1800s, if you wonder why doesn't 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:28.810 Harvard and Yale, why don't they? teach all about 00:07:28.810 --> 00:07:33.290 Jesus anymore. In the late 1800s, as many of 00:07:33.290 --> 00:07:35.610 those nations that had been predominantly Christian 00:07:35.610 --> 00:07:38.769 experienced prosperity and wealth and freedom, 00:07:38.889 --> 00:07:42.810 unlike any other in the world, any other in history, 00:07:43.009 --> 00:07:46.089 people thought, we're smart enough. We don't 00:07:46.089 --> 00:07:49.389 need God anymore. This God stuff is kind of antiquated. 00:07:49.930 --> 00:07:51.870 I mean, could a guy really raise people from 00:07:51.870 --> 00:07:54.509 the dead? You're telling me that God came to 00:07:54.509 --> 00:07:56.750 earth and died on a cross and rose from the dead? 00:07:57.230 --> 00:07:59.050 And the smartest people at the smartest universities 00:07:59.050 --> 00:08:02.769 decided we could build a better society without 00:08:02.769 --> 00:08:06.910 God. Why do we need God? And this is very clearly 00:08:06.910 --> 00:08:09.769 traced through academia and philosophy in the 00:08:09.769 --> 00:08:13.430 late 1800s. You get at German universities that 00:08:13.430 --> 00:08:16.209 had been founded by Martin Luther, a Protestant 00:08:16.209 --> 00:08:19.930 Christian. You get this philosophic turn that 00:08:19.930 --> 00:08:22.629 says we don't need God anymore. Perhaps you've 00:08:22.629 --> 00:08:24.870 heard of Friedrich Nietzsche, who said around 00:08:24.870 --> 00:08:28.129 that time, God is dead. We can build a better 00:08:28.129 --> 00:08:30.949 society without God. Let's keep the progress 00:08:30.949 --> 00:08:34.210 and the success and the technology, but get rid 00:08:34.210 --> 00:08:38.029 of the Bible. And it wasn't long after that that 00:08:38.029 --> 00:08:41.210 the world started to spin into chaos. Two world 00:08:41.210 --> 00:08:44.610 wars would follow. And we now live at a time 00:08:44.610 --> 00:08:45.990 where there's still a lot of Christian values 00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:50.649 in our land assumed, but the overtness of Christianity 00:08:50.649 --> 00:08:54.049 is pretty much not allowed. To the point that 00:08:54.049 --> 00:08:57.840 in 2016, Oxford University, They pick a word 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.039 of the year every year to describe society. They 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:03.259 said the word to describe society now is post 00:09:03.259 --> 00:09:06.919 -truth. Academics used to be about what's the 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:10.919 truth, but we've moved beyond truth. And it's 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:12.620 from that move beyond truth that some of the 00:09:12.620 --> 00:09:15.759 greatest atrocities in human history have happened. 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:18.559 For example, if you think of the Soviet Union, 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:21.559 we all know that tens of millions of people starved 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:25.500 to death, that many educated people were arrested. 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:28.919 and thrown into prison camps called gulags, often 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:32.340 up in the Siberian wilderness in the snow. I 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:34.659 want to show you two paintings that demonstrate 00:09:34.659 --> 00:09:37.879 this, not from my opinion, but from the Russian 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:41.019 people. This is a painting by a famous Russian 00:09:41.019 --> 00:09:45.200 artist named Mikhail Nesterov. This was before 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:47.480 the Bolshevik Revolution or before communism 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:50.419 took over. What was communism? It was the philosophy 00:09:50.419 --> 00:09:53.750 of Friedrich Nietzsche. And his peers, Karl Marx 00:09:53.750 --> 00:09:56.210 and others, who said, we don't need God. We can 00:09:56.210 --> 00:09:59.830 make a better society without God. And in this 00:09:59.830 --> 00:10:03.009 painting, what you see is Jesus on the left. 00:10:03.409 --> 00:10:05.830 And you can see all the different classes of 00:10:05.830 --> 00:10:08.509 Russian people looking to Jesus. Because that 00:10:08.509 --> 00:10:11.629 was the Russian norm. Was it a perfect church? 00:10:11.750 --> 00:10:13.970 It was the Orthodox church. It was far from perfect. 00:10:14.409 --> 00:10:16.450 It was pretty corrupted. It was pretty broken. 00:10:16.590 --> 00:10:20.259 And yet. People of every class knew about Jesus 00:10:20.259 --> 00:10:23.580 and worshiped him to some degree. Russia was 00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:27.700 known in the late 1800s as the Holy Rus or the 00:10:27.700 --> 00:10:30.779 land of a thousand domes because the Orthodox 00:10:30.779 --> 00:10:34.179 churches would have these domes on them. Well, 00:10:34.259 --> 00:10:37.080 as Lenin and other young Russian revolutionaries 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.440 read the post -God ideas from the German seminaries, 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:45.340 they led the country to completely turn away. 00:10:45.539 --> 00:10:48.200 Clergy would be arrested. church bells would 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:51.720 be melted down. And at that time, this same artist, 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:54.100 Mikhail Nesterov, painted a second painting. 00:10:54.740 --> 00:10:56.899 If you look closely at the middle of this painting 00:10:56.899 --> 00:10:59.740 to the right, you'll see clergy and others holding 00:10:59.740 --> 00:11:03.360 what looks like a portrait. And if you study 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:06.220 it closely, it's the face of Jesus. And then 00:11:06.220 --> 00:11:08.620 Nesterov painted over the face of Jesus with 00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:12.419 dark paint. And the whole point is he's symbolizing 00:11:12.419 --> 00:11:15.200 that my nation has said we're no longer going 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:17.240 to follow Jesus. We're going to follow a new 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:21.039 young ideal. And if you study it closely, you'll 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.220 actually see a kind of John the Baptist prophet 00:11:23.220 --> 00:11:25.620 who looks half naked and he's trying to warn 00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:28.639 them. Don't do this. Don't try to make a better 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:32.960 society without God. It won't work. Well, we 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:37.919 know from the last 100 years how it worked. Massive 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:42.240 decreases in human rights. starvation, loss of 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:45.799 private property. If you want to know, well, 00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:48.360 John, was it getting rid of God that really made 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:50.860 all this happen? How about instead of me answering 00:11:50.860 --> 00:11:54.759 that, how about we ask the best, one of the top 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:58.419 academics from the USSR, who once he disagreed 00:11:58.419 --> 00:12:01.080 with the government, got arrested and taken to 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:05.240 a prison camp in the snow, survived. His name 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:08.740 is Alexander Solzhenitsyn. And after the fall 00:12:08.740 --> 00:12:11.240 of the Soviet Union, Solzhenitsyn went around 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:15.120 the world trying to warn people. Here's what 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:18.799 he said. If I were asked today to formulate as 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:24.039 concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:27.700 revolution that swallowed up some 60 million 00:12:27.700 --> 00:12:31.700 of our people, I could not put it more accurately 00:12:31.700 --> 00:12:38.399 than to repeat, men have forgotten God. That's 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:42.379 why all this happened. That's the opinion of 00:12:42.379 --> 00:12:46.600 an academic who survived the gulags. You can 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:48.379 read more about it in the book, Jesus Skeptic. 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:50.899 I'm not going to unpack it anymore today, but 00:12:50.899 --> 00:12:55.179 my point is this. What people believe affects 00:12:55.179 --> 00:12:57.820 the way they treat the people around them. You 00:12:57.820 --> 00:12:59.720 multiply that out by millions of people, you 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:03.100 get radically different societies. Jesus said, 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:05.480 if you hold to my teachings, what did he say? 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:08.409 Love your neighbor as yourself. If you give a 00:13:08.409 --> 00:13:10.710 cup of cold water to someone who's thirsty, you've 00:13:10.710 --> 00:13:13.690 done it as unto Almighty God. When societies 00:13:13.690 --> 00:13:17.250 follow the words of Jesus, those societies lead 00:13:17.250 --> 00:13:19.710 the way in freedom. And when societies discard 00:13:19.710 --> 00:13:21.610 the words of Jesus, they lose those freedoms. 00:13:22.629 --> 00:13:27.009 Now, we can't control entire societies, but we 00:13:27.009 --> 00:13:29.950 can control ourselves and our families and our 00:13:29.950 --> 00:13:33.350 movement. And we can be people who say, we will 00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:35.690 hold to the teachings of Jesus no matter the 00:13:35.690 --> 00:13:39.059 cost. Because that's the best way to guarantee 00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:42.480 freedom and prosperity for our kids. And it's 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:44.379 the best way to guarantee for ourselves freedom 00:13:44.379 --> 00:13:46.940 from addiction, freedom from greed, freedom from 00:13:46.940 --> 00:13:50.620 unforgiveness. If you hold to my teachings, you're 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:53.000 really my disciples. Then you'll know the truth. 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:58.399 And the truth will set you free. You're listening 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.259 to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram. And we'll 00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:03.600 get back to our guest teacher, John Dickerson, 00:14:03.740 --> 00:14:06.720 in just a minute. But let me quickly ask, do 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.000 you know someone who's a skeptic? Maybe it's 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.500 that close friend or family member who genuinely 00:14:11.500 --> 00:14:14.019 doubts the truth of the Bible or the existence 00:14:14.019 --> 00:14:16.879 of Jesus. Well, stick around after the teaching 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:19.200 to hear about a resource bundle we've put together 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.700 that'll provide answers and direction for that 00:14:21.700 --> 00:14:24.440 doubter in your life. But for now, here again 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.840 is John. I'm actually a pastor's kid. Some of 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.379 you probably didn't know that. Pushed away from 00:14:30.379 --> 00:14:33.340 it for a season. And then God brought me full 00:14:33.340 --> 00:14:37.059 circle. Part of how God brought me full circle 00:14:37.059 --> 00:14:38.799 is that when I pushed away and I was skeptical 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:40.960 and I was working as a journalist and a reporter 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.120 with the values of I want to speak the truth. 00:14:44.899 --> 00:14:47.919 I want to expose corruption. I want to help the 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:51.399 weak. I want to bring justice and accountability. 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.320 I realized as I looked around the world, those 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.190 are actually Christian values. And even if I 00:14:58.190 --> 00:15:00.610 think I'm too smart to be a Christian, when I 00:15:00.610 --> 00:15:03.629 go out and do work along those lines, I'm actually 00:15:03.629 --> 00:15:06.370 doing work along the lines of Christian values. 00:15:07.590 --> 00:15:09.950 And then as I looked more into my family of origin, 00:15:10.049 --> 00:15:14.509 I'm one of four boys. By statistics in the US, 00:15:14.570 --> 00:15:16.490 if all four of us are married, two should be 00:15:16.490 --> 00:15:18.129 divorced, right? That's about the divorce rate. 00:15:18.750 --> 00:15:22.129 All four of us are happily married. All four 00:15:22.129 --> 00:15:25.409 of us are free from addictions. All four of us 00:15:25.409 --> 00:15:27.529 are excelling in our respective fields. One's 00:15:27.529 --> 00:15:29.710 an educator. One's a businessman. One's a varsity 00:15:29.710 --> 00:15:33.570 basketball coach. And I looked back through my 00:15:33.570 --> 00:15:36.210 family, and this wasn't always the case for my 00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:40.450 family. It was when my grandpa trusted in Jesus 00:15:40.450 --> 00:15:43.990 in the 1940s that he had a radical conversion, 00:15:44.090 --> 00:15:48.250 and he broke the patterns of the Dickerson family 00:15:48.250 --> 00:15:51.250 going back hundreds of years. He broke patterns 00:15:51.250 --> 00:15:54.840 of abuse and of depression. That all changed 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:57.659 when my grandpa was transformed by Jesus. And 00:15:57.659 --> 00:16:00.240 then he passed that freedom on to my dad. And 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:02.440 my dad wasn't perfect, but he raised me with 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:04.120 one thing. He said, John, I don't care how much 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:05.759 money you make. I don't have any money for you 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.740 for college. I don't care if you're successful 00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:09.659 in this world, but you have to know the word 00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:13.379 of God. And he just filled my mind with the word 00:16:13.379 --> 00:16:15.580 of God to the point that even when I pushed away 00:16:15.580 --> 00:16:18.559 from it. And went off and made the money and 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:20.960 got successful. The word of God was still in 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.019 there. The greatest inheritance that any child 00:16:23.019 --> 00:16:26.279 can have. And the word of God continued to speak 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:29.840 to me. And then as I did the research, I saw 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:31.940 that this claim, if you hold to my teachings, 00:16:32.139 --> 00:16:36.159 the truth will set you free. That it's proven 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:41.159 in families, in individuals, even in societies. 00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:46.720 God's truth obeyed sets families free. I wonder 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:48.580 today, what if the best thing that you could 00:16:48.580 --> 00:16:52.639 do for your family is to believe Jesus more and 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.980 obey him more? I found that to be true for me. 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.919 What if the best gift that you could give to 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:02.899 your family is to make sure that every week they're 00:17:02.899 --> 00:17:05.619 gathered with other believers so that their minds 00:17:05.619 --> 00:17:08.900 are being filled with God's truth? I want to 00:17:08.900 --> 00:17:11.400 show you the story of a mom here in our church 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:13.859 family who in some ways similar to me was raised 00:17:13.859 --> 00:17:16.700 in a branch of Christianity, but kind of turned 00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:25.279 away. Go ahead and have a look. I loved growing 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:29.079 up in the church that we had that faith. My parents 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:31.720 instilled that faith and I went and changed that. 00:17:32.660 --> 00:17:36.980 I just, for my family, I wanted. I wanted something 00:17:36.980 --> 00:17:39.440 a little bit different. I wanted them to have 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.339 the faith, but I wanted there to be a better 00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:45.900 understanding of what it is, what it means, and 00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:48.720 why it's important. And I think that's why I 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.799 stepped away for as long as I did, because I 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:54.640 didn't know what I wanted that to look like. 00:17:56.099 --> 00:18:00.140 I grew up in the Catholic Church, family of five, 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.099 so very faithfully went to church every Sunday. 00:18:04.190 --> 00:18:05.549 As a little kid, you don't really understand 00:18:05.549 --> 00:18:08.730 anything that's happening. You're listening to 00:18:08.730 --> 00:18:09.970 the priest talk, and you don't really know what 00:18:09.970 --> 00:18:13.930 that means. So in college, I started questioning 00:18:13.930 --> 00:18:17.170 what I personally believed. Like, the Catholic 00:18:17.170 --> 00:18:19.730 faith was my family's faith. And again, I love 00:18:19.730 --> 00:18:22.109 that I was raised in the church, but I just wanted 00:18:22.109 --> 00:18:24.049 to try to better understand what my own faith 00:18:24.049 --> 00:18:27.990 was. My husband and I got married. He was not 00:18:27.990 --> 00:18:31.410 raised in the church, and so didn't really have 00:18:31.410 --> 00:18:34.099 that interest or desire. And then kids came along, 00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:36.700 and I really had a strong desire to get back 00:18:36.700 --> 00:18:39.160 into the church. But I still didn't know what 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:42.119 church, what kind of church. So I did some church 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:45.200 shopping with the kids. And then my husband would 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.039 come for your major holidays because it was always 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.960 a great family photo opportunity. But just nothing 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.559 really sank in for him. But then the Easter before 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.299 the Greater Things campaign, he, on his own, 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:00.650 came down. Just started the message with John, 00:19:00.730 --> 00:19:02.710 just hit him just right. So he started attending 00:19:02.710 --> 00:19:06.049 with us. Me coming consistently, the kids coming 00:19:06.049 --> 00:19:08.130 and getting more involved in their baptisms. 00:19:08.470 --> 00:19:11.549 You know, because as a young adult, I really 00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:14.049 had a firm belief that, well, I was already baptized. 00:19:14.369 --> 00:19:16.490 And my parents did that for me. I don't need 00:19:16.490 --> 00:19:18.690 to do that again. And I was very adamant that 00:19:18.690 --> 00:19:21.690 I didn't need to do it again. But then, again, 00:19:21.769 --> 00:19:24.289 just after seeing everything, the kids being 00:19:24.289 --> 00:19:26.529 baptized, my husband coming to church, which... 00:19:26.990 --> 00:19:29.269 is something I prayed about for about 14 years 00:19:29.269 --> 00:19:32.390 and really never thought it would happen. I just, 00:19:32.450 --> 00:19:35.450 I made that decision for myself. So I did a believer's 00:19:35.450 --> 00:19:38.450 baptism this past January. And then the August 00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:41.509 came up and he was like, I think I'm ready to 00:19:41.509 --> 00:19:47.589 do this. I was like, okay. And then it was also 00:19:47.589 --> 00:19:49.369 really funny because we had a lot of conversations 00:19:49.369 --> 00:19:52.670 about who was going to do the baptism. And I 00:19:52.670 --> 00:19:55.109 told him it's usually... whoever brings you to 00:19:55.109 --> 00:19:56.970 the church, what that looks like. I said, so 00:19:56.970 --> 00:19:58.970 that's something I can do, or if you'd feel more 00:19:58.970 --> 00:20:00.650 comfortable with some of the other guys that 00:20:00.650 --> 00:20:03.809 you've gotten to know. And so then he finally 00:20:03.809 --> 00:20:05.029 just said, well, I'm going to let whoever's there 00:20:05.029 --> 00:20:08.130 do it. Well, then he filled out the registration 00:20:08.130 --> 00:20:10.849 and read more into it. And the night before, 00:20:10.869 --> 00:20:12.789 he's like, well, this is what the registration 00:20:12.789 --> 00:20:17.269 says. So I really think that should be you. So 00:20:17.269 --> 00:20:21.789 I actually got to do his baptism, which was amazing. 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.019 I don't even know how to put it into words. It 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:34.180 was just the most amazing, joyful, exhilarating. 00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:40.559 Like, I really never, ever imagined that that's 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:42.900 something he would choose to do, let alone being 00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:46.480 the one to get to do it for him. And the kids 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:48.339 were watching, so that was really cool, too. 00:20:54.700 --> 00:20:58.680 of our moments. What family doesn't? But the 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:01.039 type of music that we listen to has changed. 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:04.559 Both of the boys have been praying before like 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.980 their marching band. They pray before their performances. 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:09.940 A couple years ago, that's not something they 00:21:09.940 --> 00:21:12.380 would have done. Really, a church -like connection 00:21:12.380 --> 00:21:15.240 point, it's as big or as little as you want it 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.880 to be. If you come and you just come and sit 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:20.519 through service, it's probably going to feel 00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:21.799 really big and you're probably going to feel 00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:25.589 lonely. But if you come and you plug in, then 00:21:25.589 --> 00:21:31.190 it's the smallest church in the world. Isn't 00:21:31.190 --> 00:21:38.069 that a great story? I love seeing God set people 00:21:38.069 --> 00:21:41.470 free. God's truth is always available to set 00:21:41.470 --> 00:21:43.750 you free in your life, but whether it will or 00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:47.769 not depends on will you obey it. And I hope you've 00:21:47.769 --> 00:21:49.789 heard from me, you don't have to obey it perfectly. 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.960 You just have to obey it willfully, intentionally, 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:58.599 with some consistency. We all still stumble and 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:01.359 fall down. We're a group of imperfect people. 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:03.740 But what we have in common is when we fall down, 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.759 we've got people around us who pick us up and 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:11.019 dust us off and say, keep following Jesus. He's 00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:17.480 the path to freedom. You're listening to Living 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:20.059 on the Edge with Chip and Greg. John Dickerson 00:22:20.059 --> 00:22:21.920 has been our guest teacher for this program, 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:25.259 Jesus and Freedom for the People You Love, from 00:22:25.259 --> 00:22:27.859 our series, Dealing with Doubts. He and Chip 00:22:27.859 --> 00:22:29.980 will be back in studio shortly to share their 00:22:29.980 --> 00:22:32.819 application for this message. If someone were 00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:35.619 to ask you, how do you know Jesus actually lived? 00:22:35.779 --> 00:22:38.500 Or can we really trust the Bible? What would 00:22:38.500 --> 00:22:41.450 you say? Join pastor and award -winning journalist 00:22:41.450 --> 00:22:44.769 John Dickerson as he explores these complex topics. 00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:47.809 Drawing on evidence from various credible sources 00:22:47.809 --> 00:22:50.089 and the impact Christians have had throughout 00:22:50.089 --> 00:22:52.849 history, John builds a credible case for believing 00:22:52.849 --> 00:22:56.029 in Jesus. Our hope is that as you listen, you'll 00:22:56.029 --> 00:22:59.230 be able to confidently say, Jesus is real, the 00:22:59.230 --> 00:23:02.670 Bible is true, and I can prove it. In fact, we 00:23:02.670 --> 00:23:05.630 have some valuable tools to back you up. Anytime 00:23:05.630 --> 00:23:08.930 John or Chip mention a book, podcast, or article 00:23:08.930 --> 00:23:11.589 in this series, you can easily find it on our 00:23:11.589 --> 00:23:15.950 resources page at livingontheedge .org. We want 00:23:15.950 --> 00:23:18.690 to equip you with practical Bible -centered materials 00:23:18.690 --> 00:23:21.910 to use personally or share with others. So check 00:23:21.910 --> 00:23:25.549 out the resources page at livingontheedge .org 00:23:25.549 --> 00:23:29.609 today. Well, I'm joined in studio now by Chip. 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.559 And we're in the middle of this series that you 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:35.079 and John Dickerson are teaching together. And 00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:37.000 I was hoping you'd take a minute and talk to 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:39.160 those who are thinking, John has spent a lot 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:42.200 of time talking about history. Why is that so 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:44.779 important? I mean, what can we really learn from 00:23:44.779 --> 00:23:47.450 it? Well, I'd be glad to, Dave. And what I would 00:23:47.450 --> 00:23:50.970 remind them is much of the entire Old Testament 00:23:50.970 --> 00:23:53.869 is history, and history matters. The book of 00:23:53.869 --> 00:23:57.410 Acts is basically history. And the facts that 00:23:57.410 --> 00:24:00.630 John is digging in talk about how we got our 00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:03.710 biblical worldview, why we can trust the scriptures, 00:24:03.970 --> 00:24:07.029 what foundational things have happened. You know, 00:24:07.049 --> 00:24:08.910 we live in a culture where people talk about 00:24:08.910 --> 00:24:12.289 how prejudice is wrong and social justice is 00:24:12.289 --> 00:24:15.789 important. And we want medical coverage and opportunity 00:24:15.789 --> 00:24:18.849 for all people everywhere. What many of them 00:24:18.849 --> 00:24:23.180 don't understand. All those grew out of a history 00:24:23.180 --> 00:24:25.940 of Christians that were faithful to the text, 00:24:26.099 --> 00:24:29.539 faithful to God, and used their gifts because 00:24:29.539 --> 00:24:32.460 they had a worldview that said, Jesus cares. 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:36.420 All people matter. In fact, social justice, racial 00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:40.000 equality, education for all, medicine that's 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.920 available, scientific discovery, and literacy 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:47.180 for the masses have all grown because of a Christian 00:24:47.180 --> 00:24:50.500 worldview and context. And I will tell you what, 00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:54.059 it's just so encouraging to me for someone. who's 00:24:54.059 --> 00:24:56.900 an academic but speaks our language to set the 00:24:56.900 --> 00:25:00.160 record straight. I was a skeptic myself, and 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.299 I so appreciate John's work because I went through 00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:05.740 the same process. I just really wondered, can 00:25:05.740 --> 00:25:08.519 I really believe any of this? In fact, I rejected 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:12.000 it early, and it was my firsthand journey that 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.539 helped me come to realize I can trust the Bible. 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:17.500 I can trust the claims of Christ. The impact 00:25:17.500 --> 00:25:21.140 of Christianity, despite our flaws, has shaped 00:25:21.140 --> 00:25:23.470 the world for good. So if you're in the middle 00:25:23.470 --> 00:25:25.809 of that journey or watching one of your kids 00:25:25.809 --> 00:25:28.049 or grandkids wrestle with what they believe, 00:25:28.309 --> 00:25:31.319 we have some resources that can help. During 00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:33.740 this series, we've bundled two of our more popular 00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:37.339 books, Jesus Skeptic and Why I Believe. We pray 00:25:37.339 --> 00:25:39.640 that as you read these books from John and Chip, 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.519 you'll uncover the evidence for Jesus' existence 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.599 and the accuracy of the Bible and how Christianity 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.019 has positively shaped our world. So if you want 00:25:49.019 --> 00:25:51.539 answers to some of these big faith questions, 00:25:51.940 --> 00:25:55.380 check out this bundle today. Visit livingontheedge 00:25:55.380 --> 00:26:01.079 .org or call us at 888 -333 -6003. App listeners 00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:04.099 tap special offers. Well, before we go, here 00:26:04.099 --> 00:26:07.640 again are Chip and John. Thanks, Dave. Well, 00:26:07.700 --> 00:26:10.220 John, this is our last opportunity to talk together 00:26:10.220 --> 00:26:13.059 in this series. And I just want to say I really 00:26:13.059 --> 00:26:16.099 appreciate your perspective and the blend that 00:26:16.099 --> 00:26:19.599 you brought of historical narratives, your research, 00:26:19.819 --> 00:26:22.279 and actually tied it into what we're experiencing 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:25.839 today. I think we've got so much information. 00:26:26.829 --> 00:26:30.009 actually misinformation about our past, about 00:26:30.009 --> 00:26:33.410 our history, and about what Christianity is and 00:26:33.410 --> 00:26:36.509 what it is not. And so, John, could you address 00:26:36.509 --> 00:26:39.049 what you really hit on, this idea of legacy? 00:26:39.430 --> 00:26:41.890 You shared the biblical foundations that were 00:26:41.890 --> 00:26:44.390 laid in your family. What do you say to that 00:26:44.390 --> 00:26:48.250 mom or dad or, you know, grandparent who says, 00:26:48.309 --> 00:26:51.349 I really want to see a biblical legacy in our 00:26:51.349 --> 00:26:54.130 family? Oh, man, Chip, you know, the first thing 00:26:54.130 --> 00:26:58.279 I'd say is, I'm so proud of you. Way to go for 00:26:58.279 --> 00:27:01.480 wanting to leave that kind of legacy. And I just 00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:05.099 cannot encourage you enough to pour fuel on that 00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:09.319 fire of the desire to leave a godly legacy. You 00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:11.900 know, God says that as we commit our desires 00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:14.880 to him, he makes our path straight. So I would 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.900 encourage you, if that's a desire of yours as 00:27:16.900 --> 00:27:20.799 a parent, grandparent, an aunt, an uncle, Pray 00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:23.779 that to God regularly. Let him know you want 00:27:23.779 --> 00:27:27.500 a godly legacy. And, you know, the next thing 00:27:27.500 --> 00:27:31.619 I'd say is this. The word of God has a power 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:34.980 to speak to your kids, to your grandkids. And 00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:38.119 this might sound a little silly, but, Chip, I'll 00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:40.500 share with you one of the ways that I encourage 00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:43.559 my 12 -year -old son to read the word of God. 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:47.299 Maybe some listeners will take this. I actually 00:27:47.299 --> 00:27:49.839 pay him, and I know that sounds really unspiritual. 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.839 but he loves reading. And I started him when 00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:55.700 he was about nine on the proverb for the day. 00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.680 And now he also reads a New Testament chapter. 00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:00.980 And the way this works is every night before 00:28:00.980 --> 00:28:04.740 bed, he reads now two chapters of the Bible. 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:07.279 He's got a journal. He writes down his favorite 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:11.019 verse and a prayer. And that it's true, if he 00:28:11.019 --> 00:28:14.819 gets 30 days in a row, I actually pay him a little 00:28:14.819 --> 00:28:16.460 bit for that. I think it's one of the greatest 00:28:16.460 --> 00:28:18.859 investments I can make. And so whether you're 00:28:18.859 --> 00:28:20.789 bribed I mean, your kids and grandkids are not. 00:28:20.869 --> 00:28:23.529 I would say getting the word of God into their 00:28:23.529 --> 00:28:27.690 minds. And then equally important is making sure 00:28:27.690 --> 00:28:30.930 they're part of a body of believers. You know, 00:28:30.950 --> 00:28:33.009 nationwide right now, two out of three young 00:28:33.009 --> 00:28:36.400 people raised in Christian homes. will reject 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:39.259 or drift away from Christianity between their 00:28:39.259 --> 00:28:41.819 18th birthday and their 29th. So two out of three 00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:45.279 is the national average right now. One of the 00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.420 biggest consistencies of those one out of three 00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:51.599 who stay... they had parents who were in church 00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:55.119 every weekend. They weren't missing church for 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.839 sporting events. They weren't in and out of church. 00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.859 And by the way, those one out of three typically 00:29:00.859 --> 00:29:03.480 had parents or a grandparent taking them to church 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.420 who was active, not only attending, but serving 00:29:07.420 --> 00:29:10.220 and giving. Parents and grandparents who then, 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:12.920 behind the scenes, when no one else is looking, 00:29:12.980 --> 00:29:15.200 when they're driving in the car, they're talking 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.039 positively about the church and how God is at 00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:20.799 work. When a son or a daughter, a grandson or 00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:23.599 a granddaughter, grows up in that kind of home 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:25.740 and environment, and when they're reading the 00:29:25.740 --> 00:29:28.200 Bible for themselves, they're far more likely 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:32.099 to be that one out of three who also really absorbs 00:29:32.099 --> 00:29:35.119 Christianity and then passes it on to the next 00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:37.200 generation. So hey, if you're listening and that's 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.319 on your heart, I cannot cheer you on enough. 00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:43.779 That is a godly desire. Pray that desire to God. 00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:46.480 Get the word of God into the heart and mind of 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.859 your kids and your grandkids. Take them to church. 00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:52.059 Speak positively about church. Let them see how 00:29:52.059 --> 00:29:54.920 God is transforming your life and then pray that 00:29:54.920 --> 00:29:57.720 God will do the same in theirs. Encouraging word, 00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:01.140 guys. Thanks. Well, just before we close, I quickly 00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:03.339 want to thank those of you who regularly give 00:30:03.339 --> 00:30:06.220 to Living on the Edge. You're making a big difference 00:30:06.220 --> 00:30:09.099 in helping Christians live like Christians. But 00:30:09.099 --> 00:30:11.279 if you're benefiting from our ministry and haven't 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.880 started giving yet, let me encourage you to join 00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:16.079 the Living on the Edge team. You can do that 00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.059 by setting up a recurring donation at livingontheedge 00:30:19.059 --> 00:30:25.160 .org or by calling us at 888 -333 -6003. That's 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:30.859 888 -333 -6003 or visit livingontheedge .org. 00:30:31.460 --> 00:30:34.220 App listeners, tap donate. And thanks for doing 00:30:34.220 --> 00:30:36.890 whatever the Lord leads you to do. Well, thanks 00:30:36.890 --> 00:30:38.950 for listening to this edition of Living on the 00:30:38.950 --> 00:30:41.710 Edge with Chip Ingram. I'm Dave Drewy, and I 00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:43.289 hope you'll join us again next time.