WEBVTT 00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:04.799 Nearly 250 years ago, Thomas Jefferson penned 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:07.980 the famous phrase, We hold these truths to be 00:00:07.980 --> 00:00:10.800 self -evident, that all men are created equal. 00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:14.740 But where did that idea come from? And how did 00:00:14.740 --> 00:00:18.120 that idea launch a little -known group in America 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:21.879 to fight slavery when the world was absolutely 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:27.260 against them? That's today. Thanks for listening 00:00:27.260 --> 00:00:30.079 to this edition of Living on the Edge with Chip 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:32.750 Ingram. We are an international teaching and 00:00:32.750 --> 00:00:35.189 discipleship ministry that motivates Christians 00:00:35.189 --> 00:00:37.990 to live like Christians. We're grateful you've 00:00:37.990 --> 00:00:40.350 joined us today as our guest teacher, John Dickerson, 00:00:40.509 --> 00:00:43.369 shares the second half of his talk, Jesus, You, 00:00:43.670 --> 00:00:46.490 and the Fight for Human Rights. But before we 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:48.229 get going, if you want to go back and listen 00:00:48.229 --> 00:00:50.729 to the first half of John's message or revisit 00:00:50.729 --> 00:00:53.310 any other part of our Dealing with Doubt series, 00:00:53.750 --> 00:00:56.700 check out the Chip Ingram app. So if you're ready, 00:00:56.820 --> 00:00:59.659 John begins by describing how the equality and 00:00:59.659 --> 00:01:02.479 freedoms we enjoy today are the result of the 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:04.640 Christians who fought for them throughout history. 00:01:05.060 --> 00:01:08.939 Let's dive in. As ye would that men should do 00:01:08.939 --> 00:01:13.719 to you, do ye also to them likewise. That was 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:17.040 the Quakers' mantra. We call it the golden rule 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:20.060 today, and in modern English it sounds more like 00:01:20.060 --> 00:01:22.180 this, do unto others as you would have them do 00:01:22.180 --> 00:01:26.319 to you. or at an elementary level, treat others 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.379 the way you want to be treated. That was their 00:01:29.379 --> 00:01:32.480 whole thesis. And the Quaker Christians within 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:36.379 the United States started this spread of people 00:01:36.379 --> 00:01:38.659 who could read the Bible for themselves, becoming 00:01:38.659 --> 00:01:40.840 convinced that even if I don't have slaves, I 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:43.879 need to be an activist in ending slavery as a 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:47.260 whole. The Quaker Christians knew that the largest 00:01:47.260 --> 00:01:50.060 slave empire at that time was the British Empire. 00:01:50.890 --> 00:01:53.349 Because Britain at that time controlled Australia, 00:01:53.870 --> 00:01:56.750 South Africa, colonies all around the world, 00:01:56.769 --> 00:01:59.530 including parts of North America. And so the 00:01:59.530 --> 00:02:03.030 Quakers started to create, at great expense to 00:02:03.030 --> 00:02:07.989 themselves, these propaganda coins, anti -slavery 00:02:07.989 --> 00:02:12.770 propaganda coins with scripture on them. On the 00:02:12.770 --> 00:02:15.110 left, you see a slave kneeling and he says, am 00:02:15.110 --> 00:02:18.889 I not a man and a brother? That is a Bible verse 00:02:18.889 --> 00:02:22.789 from the book of Philemon, verse 16. On the right 00:02:22.789 --> 00:02:25.490 side, you see their Quaker mantra. Whatever ye 00:02:25.490 --> 00:02:28.069 would that men should do to you, do ye to them 00:02:28.069 --> 00:02:31.770 also. In fact, the Quakers sent so much literature 00:02:31.770 --> 00:02:35.250 and so many activists over to England and to 00:02:35.250 --> 00:02:37.750 the British territories to petition against slavery 00:02:37.750 --> 00:02:42.050 that we have a modern term that was coined by 00:02:42.050 --> 00:02:45.030 their huge propaganda push to end slavery, and 00:02:45.030 --> 00:02:48.280 it's the term campaign. When someone campaigns 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:51.639 for office or if you campaign for a cause, that 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:56.080 term was coined by the Quakers campaigning to 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:59.319 end slavery. Here's that verse Philemon 116. 00:02:59.780 --> 00:03:02.759 This is all the way back about 30 years after 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:05.259 Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven 00:03:05.259 --> 00:03:08.900 in the New Testament church. New Testament church 00:03:08.900 --> 00:03:11.639 was this first ever in history where you had 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:14.490 men and women worshiping openly together. where 00:03:14.490 --> 00:03:16.849 you had all the different races in an incredibly 00:03:16.849 --> 00:03:20.389 racially divided world gathering together. Paul 00:03:20.389 --> 00:03:22.250 the Apostle would write things like, here in 00:03:22.250 --> 00:03:25.430 the church, there is not male or female, barbarian, 00:03:25.430 --> 00:03:28.430 Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all and 00:03:28.430 --> 00:03:31.930 in all. This was revolutionary 2 ,000 years ago. 00:03:33.150 --> 00:03:35.949 And within that context, Paul the Apostle wrote 00:03:35.949 --> 00:03:40.310 to a man who had a slave, who had become a Christian. 00:03:40.990 --> 00:03:44.650 And he says this, he is no longer. A slave to 00:03:44.650 --> 00:03:48.610 you. He's now a beloved brother. Especially to 00:03:48.610 --> 00:03:51.210 me. Now he will mean much more to you. In other 00:03:51.210 --> 00:03:53.389 words, keep taking care of him physically, but 00:03:53.389 --> 00:03:57.550 he's not your slave now. He's your brother. He's 00:03:57.550 --> 00:04:00.469 a man made in the image of God and a brother 00:04:00.469 --> 00:04:02.969 in the Lord. These are the kind of passages the 00:04:02.969 --> 00:04:06.830 Quaker Christians would quote. Well, as the Quakers 00:04:06.830 --> 00:04:09.169 campaigned and sent their literature to the British 00:04:09.169 --> 00:04:13.840 Empire. A young man there named William Wilberforce, 00:04:14.099 --> 00:04:18.620 who had been fairly wealthy and a lawmaker and 00:04:18.620 --> 00:04:21.100 didn't really care about the cause to end slavery 00:04:21.100 --> 00:04:23.899 because he had constituents who were making money 00:04:23.899 --> 00:04:28.079 off of it. William Wilberforce became a born 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:33.319 again believer, a follower of Jesus. And it so 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:35.680 changed him that he looked at the nation around 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.509 him. He said, People, you can't call yourself 00:04:38.509 --> 00:04:41.170 a Christian unless you're actually reading the 00:04:41.170 --> 00:04:43.110 words of Jesus and doing what he said. And so 00:04:43.110 --> 00:04:46.930 he wrote a book called Real Christianity. And 00:04:46.930 --> 00:04:50.670 that book, over about 30 years, swayed the entire 00:04:50.670 --> 00:04:55.329 population there in England to overthrow slavery, 00:04:55.610 --> 00:04:58.910 to make it illegal, not only in England, but 00:04:58.910 --> 00:05:03.110 in all of the British territories. William Wilberforce, 00:05:03.290 --> 00:05:06.310 after he became a believer in Jesus, got exposed 00:05:06.310 --> 00:05:10.350 to that Quaker propaganda, if you will, the campaigning 00:05:10.350 --> 00:05:15.170 against slavery. Okay, so now slavery is outlawed 00:05:15.170 --> 00:05:17.889 in a good part of the world where the British 00:05:17.889 --> 00:05:20.610 Empire is. But here in the United States, it 00:05:20.610 --> 00:05:23.649 still exists. We're into about the 1800s now. 00:05:24.290 --> 00:05:28.069 And in the 1800s, we know exactly who the people 00:05:28.069 --> 00:05:31.129 are who led the charge to end slavery. We know 00:05:31.129 --> 00:05:34.110 it because their publications and books still 00:05:34.110 --> 00:05:36.560 exist today. You can go to university libraries 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:39.040 and you can see original copies of these documents 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:42.079 that I'm showing you. For example, the Declaration 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:48.019 of the Anti -Slavery Convention. So a group of 00:05:48.019 --> 00:05:51.839 thought leaders who gathered and said, we're 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:54.860 going to give our lives to end slavery. It's 00:05:54.860 --> 00:05:57.980 about 30 years before the Civil War. Now, we 00:05:57.980 --> 00:06:00.360 know everyone who signed this document because 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:02.459 within it, they wrote, we know we might get killed 00:06:02.459 --> 00:06:05.660 for this. We know it might cost us our fortunes 00:06:05.660 --> 00:06:09.120 and our homes, but we are so convinced that this 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:12.000 is God's will. And we fear God more than man 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.339 that if we die as martyrs, we die as martyrs. 00:06:14.339 --> 00:06:17.360 We're going to end slavery in the land that we 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:19.959 call home. We know exactly who signed it because 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:21.540 their names are still on there. And if you were 00:06:21.540 --> 00:06:24.199 to survey those names, you'd find more than half. 00:06:24.420 --> 00:06:29.519 In fact, the majority say reverend. These were 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:33.170 pastors. These were clergy. who were riling up 00:06:33.170 --> 00:06:36.230 their entire congregations to say, we must overthrow 00:06:36.230 --> 00:06:38.529 slavery. Now, let me show you on this document, 00:06:38.610 --> 00:06:42.370 just a little bit of the scripture. If you look 00:06:42.370 --> 00:06:44.490 in the highlighting here, everything that's highlighted 00:06:44.490 --> 00:06:47.269 there, there are eight different Bible verses. 00:06:47.949 --> 00:06:51.129 So on the top half of the declaration to end 00:06:51.129 --> 00:06:55.449 slavery in the US, their whole justification 00:06:55.449 --> 00:06:59.100 is from scripture. In fact, even that picture 00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:02.100 in the middle is a man kind of strangling evil. 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:04.899 And under it is this quote where Jesus said, 00:07:04.980 --> 00:07:07.439 my followers, you're going to go do greater things. 00:07:07.579 --> 00:07:10.199 You're going to tread the serpent underfoot. 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:12.279 In other words, you're going to extinguish evil. 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:16.060 The serpent's a picture of Satan. And these abolitionists, 00:07:16.060 --> 00:07:19.279 they saw it as a spiritual high calling, as their 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.300 eternal destiny to do the work of God on earth 00:07:22.300 --> 00:07:27.339 by extinguishing slavery. The signers are a beautiful 00:07:27.339 --> 00:07:31.279 mix of European descended Caucasian Americans 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:35.019 and African American Americans who had been freed 00:07:35.019 --> 00:07:36.860 from slavery or who had bought their freedom 00:07:36.860 --> 00:07:40.199 or who had been born in the north. One of those 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.019 is the Reverend Theodore Wright. Theodore Wright 00:07:44.019 --> 00:07:46.139 had been born in the north, never was a slave 00:07:46.139 --> 00:07:50.519 himself, born into an orphanage run by Quaker 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:53.819 Christians. An orphanage that had a school. So 00:07:53.819 --> 00:07:55.839 most African Americans didn't know how to read, 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:59.180 but because he'd been born into a Christian orphanage, 00:07:59.180 --> 00:08:02.379 he was taught to read. He became highly educated. 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.660 A Presbyterian reverend. He's one of those many 00:08:05.660 --> 00:08:09.980 signers of that anti -slavery convention. And 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:12.500 what I document in the book, Jesus Skeptic, and 00:08:12.500 --> 00:08:15.220 what you just need to know is that if you go 00:08:15.220 --> 00:08:18.240 one by one through those signers and you read 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:21.430 their own writing, And you say, were they motivated 00:08:21.430 --> 00:08:25.290 by Islam or by Karl Marx or by atheism or by 00:08:25.290 --> 00:08:28.050 Buddhism? You'll find things like this from Theodore 00:08:28.050 --> 00:08:32.610 Wright. Blessed be God for the principles of 00:08:32.610 --> 00:08:35.870 the gospel. The gospel is essentially Jesus' 00:08:35.970 --> 00:08:39.509 life and teaching. Were it not for these, and 00:08:39.509 --> 00:08:41.909 for the fact that a better day is dawning, I 00:08:41.909 --> 00:08:45.029 would not wish to live. Blessed be God for the 00:08:45.029 --> 00:08:48.389 anti -slavery movement. Blessed be God there 00:08:48.389 --> 00:08:52.700 is a war. waging with slavery. He stood side 00:08:52.700 --> 00:08:56.019 by side with people like Elijah Lovejoy. Elijah 00:08:56.019 --> 00:08:59.340 Lovejoy was a pastor and a reverend. He was also 00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:03.360 a newspaper printer and writer. And he would 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:07.019 often write things like this. 1 Timothy 1 verse 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:10.740 9 says in the Bible, we know that the law is 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:13.539 made for lawbreakers and rebels. What are some 00:09:13.539 --> 00:09:16.340 categories of lawbreakers and rebels? Slave traders 00:09:16.340 --> 00:09:21.600 and liars. And so those are contrary to the gospel. 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:25.240 And Elijah Lovejoy, as a pastor and writer, would 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:27.620 take passages like that, and he would write books 00:09:27.620 --> 00:09:30.299 and pamphlets that would say, you can't call 00:09:30.299 --> 00:09:33.620 yourself a God -fearing person and allow slavery. 00:09:34.580 --> 00:09:37.340 Well, Elijah Lovejoy lived in St. Louis, and 00:09:37.340 --> 00:09:40.059 so on one side of the river was slave territory, 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:43.350 and on his side was free territory. It was not 00:09:43.350 --> 00:09:46.570 uncommon that the pro -slavery rebels from the 00:09:46.570 --> 00:09:49.210 south would cross the river and burn down his 00:09:49.210 --> 00:09:52.149 house, which was also his publishing headquarters. 00:09:52.970 --> 00:09:55.610 They did this on three occasions. And on the 00:09:55.610 --> 00:09:59.289 fourth, they brought a shotgun with them. And 00:09:59.289 --> 00:10:02.409 a mob broke into his house of those who wanted 00:10:02.409 --> 00:10:05.669 slavery. And they shot Elijah Lovejoy five times 00:10:05.669 --> 00:10:08.690 with the shotgun. They killed him. These followers 00:10:08.690 --> 00:10:10.970 of Jesus would go and paint towns with posters 00:10:10.970 --> 00:10:13.929 like these. I don't know what weakness may overcome 00:10:13.929 --> 00:10:17.730 me, but I don't believe I will ever deny my Lord 00:10:17.730 --> 00:10:21.370 Master Jesus Christ, and I would deny him if 00:10:21.370 --> 00:10:25.429 I denied my principles against slavery. They'd 00:10:25.429 --> 00:10:27.929 put up posters like this. What is life or rest 00:10:27.929 --> 00:10:32.149 to me so long as I should hold a commission direct 00:10:32.149 --> 00:10:37.570 from God Almighty to act against slavery? The 00:10:37.570 --> 00:10:40.789 will that it took. The will that it took and 00:10:40.789 --> 00:10:42.570 the motivation. Now I'm going to go through very 00:10:42.570 --> 00:10:45.190 quickly a number of these leading books from 00:10:45.190 --> 00:10:48.409 the time that swayed the Northerners who were 00:10:48.409 --> 00:10:51.330 kind of complacent and saying, well, I don't 00:10:51.330 --> 00:10:52.870 have slaves. What does it have to do with me? 00:10:53.009 --> 00:10:56.309 It was books like this, the Bible against slavery 00:10:56.309 --> 00:11:01.789 or the testimony of God against slavery or an 00:11:01.789 --> 00:11:05.649 anti -slavery manual, an examination in the light 00:11:05.649 --> 00:11:08.740 of the Bible. and of facts into the moral and 00:11:08.740 --> 00:11:11.440 social wrongs of American slavery with a remedy 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.740 for the evil. That's written by a pastor, John 00:11:14.740 --> 00:11:18.399 Fee. John Rankin started as a pastor in Kentucky. 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:20.200 He got up in front of his church and he said, 00:11:20.220 --> 00:11:22.360 slavery is evil. You all need to set your slaves 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.000 free. And they ran him out of town. They didn't 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.240 want to do what Jesus said. It was one of those, 00:11:27.299 --> 00:11:29.559 quote, churches, quote, Christians who weren't 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.720 actually following Jesus. So the Reverend Rankin 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:35.460 sold everything he had in Kentucky. He moved 00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:38.639 to the other side of the Ohio River. And in Ohio, 00:11:38.980 --> 00:11:42.000 slavery was illegal. So John Rankin bought a 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:43.879 house. This is his house. You can go visit it 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:46.740 today in Ripley, Ohio. And you can look out his 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:50.039 window, and that's the Ohio River. And what John 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:52.500 Rankin would do is what's called the Underground 00:11:52.500 --> 00:11:54.980 Railroad. These safe houses that escaping slaves 00:11:54.980 --> 00:11:58.379 could stay in. His house was the first safe house 00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:02.019 north of the Ohio River. And there are dozens 00:12:02.019 --> 00:12:05.059 of true stories of him looking out that window 00:12:05.059 --> 00:12:07.320 in the winter months when the river was iced 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:11.000 over and slaves with children barefoot are running 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:13.220 across the river. And he would grab that lantern 00:12:13.220 --> 00:12:15.860 that you see there, and he would run down and 00:12:15.860 --> 00:12:18.460 he would bring them to his home. And he would 00:12:18.460 --> 00:12:21.679 clothe them and he would feed them because he 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:23.860 believed in a God who said, all people are made 00:12:23.860 --> 00:12:26.500 equal. And whatever you've done for those who 00:12:26.500 --> 00:12:30.750 are the most hurting, you've done unto me. Harriet 00:12:30.750 --> 00:12:34.389 Tubman, who is well documented as a great hero 00:12:34.389 --> 00:12:36.950 of the faith, who not only escaped slavery, but 00:12:36.950 --> 00:12:39.509 then risked her life to keep going back in and 00:12:39.509 --> 00:12:43.230 leading others out. Her very final words documented 00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:47.529 in her official obituary are these, give my love 00:12:47.529 --> 00:12:51.429 to all the churches. Because these churches, 00:12:51.509 --> 00:12:53.889 the good churches, were so interwoven with this 00:12:53.889 --> 00:12:57.830 cause. I go to prepare a place for you, she said. 00:12:58.509 --> 00:13:01.190 At where I am, ye may also be. If you know your 00:13:01.190 --> 00:13:04.129 Bible, she's quoting Jesus. This is a quote of 00:13:04.129 --> 00:13:06.570 Jesus. And how beautiful to know that Harriet 00:13:06.570 --> 00:13:09.129 Tubman and all of these heroes of the faith, 00:13:09.289 --> 00:13:12.129 we're going to get to meet in the kingdom of 00:13:12.129 --> 00:13:15.169 heaven for those of us who follow Jesus. Frederick 00:13:15.169 --> 00:13:19.809 Douglass, another well -documented hero who also 00:13:19.809 --> 00:13:23.629 escaped from slavery. bought his freedom, but 00:13:23.629 --> 00:13:26.509 then went back to help others, traveled around 00:13:26.509 --> 00:13:29.110 the northern states as a lecturer and an author, 00:13:29.269 --> 00:13:33.929 turning the national will against slavery. There's 00:13:33.929 --> 00:13:36.769 a passage in his book, his autobiography, where 00:13:36.769 --> 00:13:39.450 he describes his conversion. At about age 11, 00:13:39.610 --> 00:13:41.929 he was hearing the good news of Jesus preached, 00:13:42.110 --> 00:13:44.990 and he decided to believe in Jesus for himself. 00:13:46.529 --> 00:13:50.169 And after he became a Christian and in the South, 00:13:50.190 --> 00:13:52.190 he saw these people who claimed to be Christians. 00:13:52.250 --> 00:13:55.049 He wrote this between the Christianity of this 00:13:55.049 --> 00:13:58.070 land, those people who would justify slavery 00:13:58.070 --> 00:14:01.169 for their income, but don't actually read the 00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:04.649 Bible and the Christianity of Christ. I recognize 00:14:04.649 --> 00:14:08.529 the widest possible difference. And you'd think 00:14:08.529 --> 00:14:10.690 that that would turn him away from being a Christian 00:14:10.690 --> 00:14:13.629 at all, but quite the opposite. He said, no, 00:14:13.669 --> 00:14:17.960 I'm a true Christian. I'm one who actually follows 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:20.799 Jesus. And in his autobiography, when he describes 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.100 his moment of conversion, he talks about this 00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:27.399 old man who was there who prayed with him. And 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:29.840 the good old man had told me that the Lord had 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.059 great work for me to do. So when Frederick Douglass 00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:35.120 would be showing up at a lecture hall and there 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.340 was word that, hey, there's pro -slavery rebels 00:14:37.340 --> 00:14:40.179 coming. They're going to try to attack you. He 00:14:40.179 --> 00:14:43.899 had this fire inside him because of his own free 00:14:43.899 --> 00:14:46.659 will and personality and the great hero he is, 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.879 but also because he believed in a God who had 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:53.840 called him to an eternal work. He says of the 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:57.059 moment right after he was converted, I saw the 00:14:57.059 --> 00:15:04.019 world in a new light. Light of the world. And 00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:08.240 my great concern was to have everybody. converted. 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.700 Well, by God's grace, these righteous followers 00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:15.879 of Jesus and thousands of others prevailed in 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:19.240 the US Civil War and extinguished at least the 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:23.740 open legalized slavery. The beginning of a journey 00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:25.980 that continues of true equality in our land. 00:15:26.379 --> 00:15:28.019 A journey that, by the way, will probably not 00:15:28.019 --> 00:15:30.500 be fully completed until Christ returns. But 00:15:30.500 --> 00:15:32.779 here's what I want you to zoom out. I know as 00:15:32.779 --> 00:15:34.399 Americans, we get real caught up on America. 00:15:35.659 --> 00:15:40.139 After the Civil War in 1890, the wealthiest nations 00:15:40.139 --> 00:15:43.879 in the world, who's that? The US, Britain, France, 00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:47.580 mostly Western Europe. They gathered in Brussels 00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:53.220 to sign the 1890 Brussels Act. This was the first 00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:56.679 time in all of human history, thousands of years. 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.120 This was the only time that the wealthiest nations 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.690 gathered together and they said, We declare slavery 00:16:03.690 --> 00:16:08.129 illegal and evil, and we will not conduct trade. 00:16:08.509 --> 00:16:11.830 We will not do business with any country that 00:16:11.830 --> 00:16:15.789 allows open and legalized slavery. You're listening 00:16:15.789 --> 00:16:18.690 to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram, and we'll 00:16:18.690 --> 00:16:21.009 get back to our guest teacher, John Dickerson, 00:16:21.149 --> 00:16:24.129 in just a minute. But let me quickly ask, do 00:16:24.129 --> 00:16:26.409 you know someone who's a skeptic? Maybe it's 00:16:26.409 --> 00:16:28.889 that close friend or family member who genuinely 00:16:28.889 --> 00:16:31.429 doubts the truth of the Bible or the existence 00:16:31.429 --> 00:16:34.269 of Jesus. Well, stick around after the teaching 00:16:34.269 --> 00:16:36.610 to hear about a resource bundle we've put together 00:16:36.610 --> 00:16:39.110 that'll provide answers and direction for that 00:16:39.110 --> 00:16:41.850 doubter in your life. But for now, here again 00:16:41.850 --> 00:16:46.009 is John. It's as a result of that that many other 00:16:46.009 --> 00:16:49.470 nations who were dragging their feet on slavery 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.460 We're more or less forced to come around. And 00:16:52.460 --> 00:16:54.320 what you can do is you can look at those nations 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:58.220 in 1890 who signed that act, and you can look 00:16:58.220 --> 00:17:00.799 at their populations, how Christian were they? 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:05.220 And they're all over 70 % Christian nations. 00:17:06.099 --> 00:17:08.519 Russia at the time, this is before the Bolshevik 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:10.319 Revolution. I know I'm getting into history here. 00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:12.920 Forgive me. Russia was an Orthodox Christian 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:16.039 nation at the time. The Western European nations, 00:17:16.259 --> 00:17:19.299 they weren't perfect. They were messed up. But 00:17:19.299 --> 00:17:21.779 they were trying to do what Jesus said, and they 00:17:21.779 --> 00:17:24.119 overthrew slavery. That's why we've been born 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:27.200 into a world, this isn't even 200 years old, 00:17:27.339 --> 00:17:32.140 where slavery is assumed to be an evil. And of 00:17:32.140 --> 00:17:34.660 course, the fight for true human rights continues 00:17:34.660 --> 00:17:37.519 in modern history with people like the Reverend 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:42.900 Martin Luther King Jr., a Baptist pastor, a seminary 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:46.740 graduate, who you can go online and you can listen 00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:50.180 to his speeches. And what you'll find as you 00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:52.119 listen to him is that the majority of them are 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:55.420 sermons and that the majority of them were delivered 00:17:55.420 --> 00:17:58.920 in churches on Sunday mornings. He said things 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:01.079 like this. I want it to be known throughout Montgomery 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:04.759 and throughout this nation that we are Christian 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:08.980 people. We believe the Christian religion of 00:18:08.980 --> 00:18:12.640 the entire logic and philosophy of him giving 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.099 his life in uncomfortable ways, being willing 00:18:15.099 --> 00:18:19.180 to die as a martyr if necessary. He said this, 00:18:19.180 --> 00:18:24.799 if we are wrong, then Jesus of Nazareth was merely 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.140 a utopian dreamer that never came down to earth. 00:18:28.579 --> 00:18:33.720 If we are wrong, justice is a lie and love has 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:37.700 no meaning. I hope what you don't hear from me 00:18:37.700 --> 00:18:40.779 is some kind of assumption that everyone who's 00:18:40.779 --> 00:18:43.200 claimed to be a Christian is perfect. They're 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:47.720 not. I'm not. We're not. But we got to zoom out 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.839 to realize only one time in all the thousands 00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:54.819 of years of history, his slavery been completely 00:18:54.819 --> 00:18:59.519 made illegal and overthrown and then spread globally. 00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:02.500 That's happened one time. And we know the people 00:19:02.500 --> 00:19:05.380 who led the charge and we can read their motivations 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:09.700 for ourselves. And it's not atheism or Karl Marx 00:19:09.700 --> 00:19:12.720 or Buddhism or these other thought systems that 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:14.380 I'm not here to attack them, but you're just 00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:17.250 not going to find that. In the logic of the people 00:19:17.250 --> 00:19:21.930 who led this charge, Jesus followers, those who 00:19:21.930 --> 00:19:23.910 truly have read his words and said, we'll do 00:19:23.910 --> 00:19:26.769 what he says, no matter the cost. Don't worry. 00:19:26.809 --> 00:19:28.890 I'm not going to unpack all this, but I always 00:19:28.890 --> 00:19:33.049 want to talk about our world today. How are women's 00:19:33.049 --> 00:19:35.029 rights in the world today? I'm not going to open 00:19:35.029 --> 00:19:37.430 this wide open. We've got a long ways to go on 00:19:37.430 --> 00:19:40.150 all these things because we're born into a world 00:19:40.150 --> 00:19:43.089 that's corrupted by sin and evil human nature. 00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:46.119 has been corrupted. Jesus is the only one who 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:50.220 can change people's very nature. So women's rights 00:19:50.220 --> 00:19:52.019 in the world today aren't where they need to 00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:56.960 be. But the World Economic Forum has ranked countries 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.519 by their women's rights. And I've got the list 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:02.240 for you here. So I didn't put this together. 00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:05.119 This is from the World Economic Forum. And then 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:07.900 what I did is I looked at those countries and 00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:09.900 I went to the Pew Research Center, which we've 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:12.619 talked about. A non -Christian group that tells 00:20:12.619 --> 00:20:14.460 you here's how many people are Christians in 00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:17.299 each of these countries. And I put those lists 00:20:17.299 --> 00:20:20.180 together and I found that in the top 10 nations 00:20:20.180 --> 00:20:22.940 for women's rights today, the average population 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:28.279 is 75 % Christian. Now I just want to show you 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:30.500 the other end of the list. Here are the 10 worst 00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:33.579 nations for women's rights in the world today. 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.680 Yemen, Pakistan, Syria. These are societies that 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.059 exist today. Where if a woman goes outside without 00:20:41.059 --> 00:20:43.279 her head covered, she gets beaten with a whip. 00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:46.000 Where she's not allowed to drive a car. She's 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.880 not allowed to have an education. She's not allowed 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.019 to vote. Where women are still sold in marriages. 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:53.920 Where deals are still made. Where it says, oh, 00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:55.559 you don't have enough money to pay? Then I'll 00:20:55.559 --> 00:21:00.119 take your sister as payment. And these are nations, 00:21:00.220 --> 00:21:03.019 societies, where Christianity is not allowed. 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:06.299 And that is present, but it's also, if you were 00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:08.819 to trace back in these top 10 and lowest 10 nations, 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.700 you could trace back 500 years and you'll see 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:14.900 Christianity as a major influence in the top 00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:19.019 10 and as a total lack of influence in the bottom 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:21.920 10. The point is this, Jesus' followers, though 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:26.259 imperfect, as they have followed him, have become 00:21:26.259 --> 00:21:29.339 a light. In the world in a way that nothing else 00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:32.420 in history ever has. And the bottom line is this. 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.279 If you really want to make the world a better 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:37.900 place. We all say we do. If you really want to 00:21:37.900 --> 00:21:40.920 make the world a better place. Then why not join 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:45.700 the movement. That has an irrefutable track record. 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:51.700 Of these huge breakthroughs in society. Back 00:21:51.700 --> 00:21:55.430 2 ,000 years ago. John the disciple wrote this 00:21:55.430 --> 00:21:59.630 about Jesus. In him was life, and that life was 00:21:59.630 --> 00:22:03.009 the light of all mankind. The light shines in 00:22:03.009 --> 00:22:06.289 the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome. 00:22:07.009 --> 00:22:12.730 The true light that gives light to everyone was 00:22:12.730 --> 00:22:15.890 coming into the world. He was in the world, and 00:22:15.890 --> 00:22:17.829 though the world was made through him, he's the 00:22:17.829 --> 00:22:23.480 creator, the world did not recognize him. My 00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:26.920 question for you today, have you recognized Jesus 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.420 as the light of the world? Have you recognized 00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:33.240 him? Have you invited him to extinguish any darkness 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.059 or evil within you, within your family? And then 00:22:37.059 --> 00:22:39.839 once you have, will you join us as a movement 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.940 that says we'll be sincere followers of Jesus 00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:44.839 and we're going to live under a God who is just, 00:22:44.980 --> 00:22:51.319 who has made all people equal. You're listening 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:54.259 to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram. John 00:22:54.259 --> 00:22:56.460 Dickerson has been our guest teacher for this 00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:59.079 program, Jesus, You, and the Fight for Human 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:01.779 Rights, from our series, Dealing with Doubts. 00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:04.400 He and Chip will be back in studio shortly to 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:07.240 share their application for this message. If 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:09.420 someone were to ask you, how do you know Jesus 00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:12.680 actually lived? Or can we really trust the Bible? 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:15.940 What would you say? Join pastor and award -winning 00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:18.759 journalist John Dickerson as he explores these 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:21.839 complex topics. Drawing on evidence from various 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.539 credible sources and the impact Christians have 00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:26.799 had throughout history, John builds a credible 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:29.799 case for believing in Jesus. Our hope is that 00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:31.859 as you listen, you'll be able to confidently 00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:35.700 say, Jesus is real, the Bible is true, and I 00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:38.380 can prove it. In fact, we have some valuable 00:23:38.380 --> 00:23:41.960 tools to back you up. Anytime John or Chip mention 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.119 a book, podcast, or article in this series, you 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.900 can easily find it on our resources page at livingontheedge 00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:52.680 .org. We want to equip you with practical Bible 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:55.319 -centered materials to use personally or share 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:58.059 with others. So check out the resources page 00:23:58.059 --> 00:24:03.200 at livingontheedge .org today. Well, Chip's joining 00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:05.160 me in studio now. And Chip, you know, I'm sure 00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.920 we all know someone who's cynical of or even 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.039 hostile towards the claims of the Bible. So take 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.180 a minute, if you would, and explain how John's 00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:15.880 testimony in his popular book, Jesus Skeptic, 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.160 will help us better defend our faith. Well, Dave. 00:24:20.059 --> 00:24:22.339 John comes from a background, actually, where 00:24:22.339 --> 00:24:25.500 it was a very religious background and pretty 00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:28.859 rigid in some ways. And he actually went through 00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:31.240 his own season of, I don't know if I can believe 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:35.460 all this. And he happens to be very smart, decided 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:38.259 to take up a life as a journalist, and actually 00:24:38.259 --> 00:24:41.420 won the Brokaw Award, very prestigious of the 00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:45.480 top investigative journalist in America. And 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.420 it was on that journey that John decided, I'm 00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:50.220 not going to take other people's word for things. 00:24:50.500 --> 00:24:53.500 And so firsthand research. He doesn't look at 00:24:53.500 --> 00:24:56.200 the quotes in the back of books. He goes and 00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:59.160 reads the very firsthand research, or he goes 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:03.509 to the actual places. And so I found this young 00:25:03.509 --> 00:25:06.470 friend who was a millennial, who was very, very 00:25:06.470 --> 00:25:09.309 smart, who'd done a lot of research. And what 00:25:09.309 --> 00:25:11.829 I realized was, as I listened to the world that 00:25:11.829 --> 00:25:14.450 I'm in, and I go to a church with a lot of very, 00:25:14.509 --> 00:25:17.430 very young people, and I see their worldview, 00:25:17.769 --> 00:25:21.349 I recognized John basically is speaking their 00:25:21.349 --> 00:25:23.849 language and answering the questions that they 00:25:23.849 --> 00:25:26.730 have. And some of our history is just completely 00:25:26.730 --> 00:25:30.049 buried. Or part of what the Bible says has been 00:25:30.049 --> 00:25:33.839 really... really, what can I say? It's been tilted 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:37.259 in ways and bent in ways to make it sound very 00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:40.859 ugly and very unlike Jesus. And so my heart's 00:25:40.859 --> 00:25:43.859 desire was that people would get to know someone 00:25:43.859 --> 00:25:47.559 who is smart, who's academic, who's an absolutely 00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:50.559 committed Christian, who did the firsthand research, 00:25:50.660 --> 00:25:54.660 and I will guarantee this. This is the kind of 00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:57.900 book that you need to sit down with the younger 00:25:57.900 --> 00:26:00.519 people in your life, read together, and have 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.240 a discussion. And I think all parties concerned, 00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:06.859 young and old, will have a number of aha moments 00:26:06.859 --> 00:26:11.460 and realize the power of love and truth and justice 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:14.660 and compassion that we take for granted that 00:26:14.660 --> 00:26:17.200 we're all birthed out of a Christian framework 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.579 and worldview. Well, because we believe so strongly 00:26:20.579 --> 00:26:22.759 in sharing your faith with the next generation, 00:26:23.059 --> 00:26:25.500 we've bundled two of our more popular resources 00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:28.680 together to help. The first is this book, Jesus 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.339 Skeptic, and the other is Chip's work, Why I 00:26:31.339 --> 00:26:34.299 Believe. We pray that together these tools will 00:26:34.299 --> 00:26:37.160 prove that Jesus is real and the Bible is true 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:40.160 and showcase the profound ways Christianity has 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:42.779 shaped our world for the better. Learn more about 00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:48.259 this bundle by calling 888 -333 -6003 or by visiting 00:26:48.259 --> 00:26:52.720 livingontheedge .org. App listeners tap special 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:55.779 offers. Well, with that, here again are Chip 00:26:55.779 --> 00:26:58.779 and John to share a few final thoughts. Thanks 00:26:58.779 --> 00:27:01.890 so much, Dave. Well, John, I'm grateful to have 00:27:01.890 --> 00:27:05.470 you back again with me in studio today. Today, 00:27:05.630 --> 00:27:08.269 you wrapped up your talk on the inequality and 00:27:08.269 --> 00:27:11.009 unfairness and injustice that we've seen in history 00:27:11.009 --> 00:27:13.910 and how followers of Christ have responded to 00:27:13.910 --> 00:27:17.059 it. Could you fast forward to today? What wisdom 00:27:17.059 --> 00:27:20.000 would you give to us right now in terms of being 00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.799 that kind of witness and dealing with issues 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.400 of injustice or inequity? In fact, where do you 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.359 see Christians making a positive impact today 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:32.380 the way they did in the past? Thanks, Chip. That's 00:27:32.380 --> 00:27:35.799 such a great question. And the reality is I see 00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:40.190 Christians today. fighting injustice all around 00:27:40.190 --> 00:27:43.009 the world. If you were to travel to Cambodia 00:27:43.009 --> 00:27:46.230 and Thailand, countries where human slavery and 00:27:46.230 --> 00:27:51.009 sex trafficking is still sadly rampant and regular. 00:27:51.210 --> 00:27:53.769 And if you were to visit the groups that are 00:27:53.769 --> 00:27:57.910 there ending modern day slavery and sex trafficking, 00:27:58.109 --> 00:28:01.809 you would find one after another. that they're 00:28:01.809 --> 00:28:06.390 followers of Jesus. And this is true also of 00:28:06.390 --> 00:28:10.869 hospitals and orphanages that are founded in 00:28:10.869 --> 00:28:15.369 pioneering areas like... Africa and rural parts 00:28:15.369 --> 00:28:18.250 of South America and medical boats that go up 00:28:18.250 --> 00:28:21.609 and down the Amazon River. The reality is followers 00:28:21.609 --> 00:28:24.890 of Jesus continue doing this today. Now, for 00:28:24.890 --> 00:28:27.509 those of us in America who maybe aren't called 00:28:27.509 --> 00:28:31.170 to go directly to Cambodia or Thailand or to 00:28:31.170 --> 00:28:33.309 the Amazon River, how do we be part of that? 00:28:33.609 --> 00:28:37.230 How we be part of that is we run God's play. 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.220 God's way. Jesus said, go and make disciples, 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.079 baptizing them and then teaching them to obey 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.279 all these things. When we share Jesus with others 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:51.599 and other people repent and believe, God then 00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:54.880 transforms their heart. And as we disciple them 00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:58.359 to know the truth that sets them free, God calls 00:28:58.359 --> 00:29:01.420 them to go and set other captives free. And so 00:29:01.420 --> 00:29:04.019 the best thing you can do as a follower of Jesus 00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:07.740 is be part of a vibrant local church, a body 00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:10.619 of believers where Jesus is the head, where his 00:29:10.619 --> 00:29:13.000 word is taught, where his spirit is alive and 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:16.940 working, and be there and serve and give and 00:29:16.940 --> 00:29:19.960 be part of a disciple -making movement. Because 00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:23.059 as you do that, God will send out from you your 00:29:23.059 --> 00:29:25.880 church, missionaries who will go to Cambodia 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:28.839 or Thailand or to the Amazon River, and who will 00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:32.640 also set captives free spiritually and even literally 00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:35.960 right here in the U .S. So how do we do it? We 00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:40.480 run God's play God's way, trusting that when 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.519 we do that, he will bring about the results of 00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:46.809 freedom. Great word, John. As we close, I want 00:29:46.809 --> 00:29:49.250 to thank each of you who makes this program possible 00:29:49.250 --> 00:29:52.910 through your generous giving. 100 % of your gifts 00:29:52.910 --> 00:29:55.089 go directly to the ministry to help Christians 00:29:55.089 --> 00:29:57.710 live like Christians. Now, if you found this 00:29:57.710 --> 00:29:59.750 teaching helpful but aren't yet on the team, 00:29:59.890 --> 00:30:02.869 consider doing that today. Sending a gift is 00:30:02.869 --> 00:30:06.710 easy. Go to livingontheedge .org or call 888 00:30:06.710 --> 00:30:15.309 -333 -6003. That's 888 -333 -6003. visit livingontheedge 00:30:15.309 --> 00:30:19.869 .org. App listeners, tap donate. And let me thank 00:30:19.869 --> 00:30:22.210 you in advance for doing whatever the Lord leads 00:30:22.210 --> 00:30:25.509 you to do. For Chip, John, and the entire team, 00:30:25.670 --> 00:30:27.670 this is Dave Drewy thanking you for listening 00:30:27.670 --> 00:30:30.369 to this edition of Living on the Edge, and I 00:30:30.369 --> 00:30:31.990 hope you'll join us again next time.