WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.640 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today, we're diving 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:06.259 into a really provocative piece of ancient writing. 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:09.539 It's often called impious thoughts on righteousness 00:00:09.539 --> 00:00:12.480 and death. Right. And it's important to say up 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:14.400 front, this isn't just digging up old history. 00:00:14.539 --> 00:00:17.199 No, not at all. It feels surprisingly current, 00:00:17.300 --> 00:00:19.640 actually. It tackles these huge questions about 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:24.019 life, death, meaning. Stuff we all grapple with 00:00:24.019 --> 00:00:26.480 exactly and the perspective it starts with is 00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:29.239 well It's pretty stark almost cynical you could 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:32.179 say about mortality and how we should live because 00:00:32.179 --> 00:00:34.700 of it Okay, so our mission today if you like 00:00:34.700 --> 00:00:38.399 is to unpack the arguments in this text Understand 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:40.679 where these impious thinkers are coming from 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:43.219 and then explore the counter argument that's 00:00:43.219 --> 00:00:45.179 presented right alongside it, which offers a 00:00:45.179 --> 00:00:47.420 totally different view on humanity and what might 00:00:47.420 --> 00:00:49.740 come after. So let's get into that first perspective. 00:00:49.939 --> 00:00:51.899 They kick things off with this idea that life 00:00:51.899 --> 00:00:55.000 is brief and troubled. No pulling punches there. 00:00:55.420 --> 00:00:57.740 Not at all. And crucially, they say there is 00:00:57.740 --> 00:01:00.579 no remedy for our dying. That finality is central. 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:04.000 Total finality. They add, nor is anyone known 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:06.540 to have come back from Hades. It's all about 00:01:06.540 --> 00:01:08.459 the observable, isn't it? If we haven't seen 00:01:08.459 --> 00:01:10.950 it, it doesn't count. Precisely. It grounds their 00:01:10.950 --> 00:01:13.829 whole worldview. And this extends to birth, too. 00:01:14.430 --> 00:01:16.290 By mere chance were we born, they claim. That's 00:01:16.290 --> 00:01:19.989 an accident, basically. And the flip side, hereafter 00:01:19.989 --> 00:01:23.209 we shall be as though we had not been. Just gone. 00:01:24.170 --> 00:01:27.030 Libivian. It's a powerful statement of non -existence 00:01:27.030 --> 00:01:29.670 after death. They use some really vivid analogies 00:01:29.670 --> 00:01:32.069 to hammer this home. Yeah, they do. Like, breath 00:01:32.069 --> 00:01:34.890 being just smoke. Uh -huh. And reason. Just a 00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:36.909 little spark that, you know, flickers out when 00:01:36.909 --> 00:01:39.849 the body dies. And the body itself. turns the 00:01:39.849 --> 00:01:43.530 ashes, the spirit vanishes like thin air. It's 00:01:43.530 --> 00:01:46.609 all incredibly transient. Very much so. They 00:01:46.609 --> 00:01:48.969 even argue that our memory, our name, our accomplishments, 00:01:49.129 --> 00:01:51.090 all of it will eventually be forgotten. Like 00:01:51.090 --> 00:01:53.730 traces of a cloud or a mist dispersed by the 00:01:53.730 --> 00:01:57.010 sun's rays. It's quite poetic in a bleak sort 00:01:57.010 --> 00:01:59.349 of way. It is. And it all leads to this stark 00:01:59.349 --> 00:02:01.810 conclusion. Our dying cannot be deferred because 00:02:01.810 --> 00:02:03.730 it is fixed with the seal and no one returns. 00:02:04.219 --> 00:02:06.879 that seal image is potent? It's locked in? Okay, 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:10.060 so if you genuinely believe that life is short, 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.080 brutal, ends in nothing, and you'll be forgotten, 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:16.719 what do you do? Well, their answer is pretty 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:19.020 straightforward. You enjoy it while you can. 00:02:19.860 --> 00:02:23.400 Maximize pleasure right now. Right. Come, therefore. 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:25.919 Let us enjoy the good things that are here, they 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:29.060 say. Make use of creation with youthful zest. 00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:32.229 It's a call to hedonism, cure and simple. and 00:02:32.229 --> 00:02:35.129 they get specific about it. Oh yeah. Indulging 00:02:35.129 --> 00:02:38.469 in costly wine and perfumes. Seizing every springtime 00:02:38.469 --> 00:02:40.930 blossom. Basically grab every bit of sensory 00:02:40.930 --> 00:02:43.430 pleasure you can. Crowning themselves with rose 00:02:43.430 --> 00:02:45.810 buds before they wither. There's that sense of 00:02:45.810 --> 00:02:48.330 urgency again. Get it before it's gone. Absolutely. 00:02:48.689 --> 00:02:51.069 And they want to leave tokens of our merriment 00:02:51.069 --> 00:02:53.310 everywhere. It's almost defiant, isn't it? Yeah. 00:02:53.430 --> 00:02:55.830 Like this is our portion. This is our lot. This 00:02:55.830 --> 00:02:57.969 immediate gratification is all we get. So let's 00:02:57.969 --> 00:03:00.159 make the most of it. It follows a certain logic 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:02.819 given their starting point of absolute finality. 00:03:03.379 --> 00:03:05.659 If there are no cosmic consequences, why hold 00:03:05.659 --> 00:03:08.919 back? But, and this is a big but, this worldview 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:11.199 takes a really dark turn when it comes to other 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:14.139 people, particularly the vulnerable. It really 00:03:14.139 --> 00:03:16.620 does. That's where the impious label perhaps 00:03:16.620 --> 00:03:20.000 feels most apt. Their focus on self -gratification 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:22.960 seems to erode any sense of compassion or traditional 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:25.909 morality. They actually say... Let us oppress 00:03:25.909 --> 00:03:28.430 the righteous poor. Let us neither spear the 00:03:28.430 --> 00:03:31.250 widow nor revere the aged for hair grown white 00:03:31.250 --> 00:03:34.550 with time. It's shocking to read. It is their 00:03:34.550 --> 00:03:37.729 justification. Let strength be our norm of righteousness 00:03:37.729 --> 00:03:41.110 for weakness proves itself useless. It's a might 00:03:41.110 --> 00:03:43.610 makes right philosophy born from that sense of 00:03:43.610 --> 00:03:45.550 meaninglessness. And this leads them to have 00:03:45.550 --> 00:03:47.710 a real problem with anyone who doesn't live like 00:03:47.710 --> 00:03:50.669 them. Specifically, this figure they call the 00:03:50.669 --> 00:03:53.169 righteous one. Ah, yes, the righteous one. They 00:03:53.169 --> 00:03:55.650 find him incredibly irritating, annoying even. 00:03:55.789 --> 00:03:58.810 Why? Because he opposes our actions, reproaches 00:03:58.810 --> 00:04:01.050 us for transgressions of the law. He's basically 00:04:01.050 --> 00:04:03.610 calling them out. Exactly. He charges us with 00:04:03.610 --> 00:04:06.229 violations of our training. He represents a standard 00:04:06.229 --> 00:04:07.930 they've deliberately rejected. And they seem 00:04:07.930 --> 00:04:10.169 particularly bothered by his claims about God, 00:04:10.710 --> 00:04:13.409 his saying he knows God, calling himself a child 00:04:13.409 --> 00:04:16.110 of the Lord. That probably strikes him as completely 00:04:16.110 --> 00:04:18.949 delusional given their framework. It directly 00:04:18.949 --> 00:04:22.509 contradicts their chance, birth, total death, 00:04:22.649 --> 00:04:25.910 belief. His very existence becomes a problem 00:04:25.910 --> 00:04:28.269 for them. They say he's a censure of our thoughts. 00:04:28.470 --> 00:04:31.490 Right. Just seeing him, knowing he lives differently, 00:04:31.850 --> 00:04:34.490 is a hardship. Because his lifestyle implies 00:04:34.490 --> 00:04:37.850 their choices might be, well... Wrong. Or at 00:04:37.850 --> 00:04:41.089 least questionable. His values are alien to theirs. 00:04:41.529 --> 00:04:44.649 His ways are strangely different. And they perceive 00:04:44.649 --> 00:04:46.949 him as judging them, thinking they're debased 00:04:46.949 --> 00:04:49.550 and holding himself aloof from their parties 00:04:49.550 --> 00:04:51.569 and pursuits. It sounds like deep resentment, 00:04:51.870 --> 00:04:53.930 especially when he talks about a blessed destiny 00:04:53.930 --> 00:04:56.389 for the righteous. Yeah, and claims God is his 00:04:56.389 --> 00:04:58.870 father. That kind of talk is a direct affront 00:04:58.870 --> 00:05:01.069 to their whole worldview that this life is all 00:05:01.069 --> 00:05:03.269 there is. So what do they decide to do about 00:05:03.269 --> 00:05:05.389 this annoying, judgmental, righteous person? 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:08.720 They decide to test him to see if his claims 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.139 hold up under pressure. Let us see what will 00:05:11.139 --> 00:05:12.920 happen to him in the end. It's quite sinister. 00:05:13.300 --> 00:05:15.220 Their rationale is sort of twisted logic, isn't 00:05:15.220 --> 00:05:18.079 it? It is. They say if the righteous one is the 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:20.540 son of God, God will help him and deliver him 00:05:20.540 --> 00:05:22.620 from the hand of his foes. Like, they're setting 00:05:22.620 --> 00:05:26.060 up an experiment. A cruel experiment. Using violence 00:05:26.060 --> 00:05:29.339 and torture, no less. Yes, specifically to test 00:05:29.339 --> 00:05:32.980 his gentleness and patience. to see if he cracks 00:05:32.980 --> 00:05:36.160 under extreme duress. The ultimate goal. Let 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:39.579 us condemn him to a shameful death. Wow! And 00:05:39.579 --> 00:05:42.939 their reasoning again is so cynical. If he's 00:05:42.939 --> 00:05:45.560 really God's child, well, God will take care 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:49.480 of him. It puts the burden entirely on this supposed 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:51.500 divine intervention they don't actually believe 00:05:51.500 --> 00:05:53.819 in. It's the ultimate expression of their worldview 00:05:53.819 --> 00:05:56.160 trying to empirically disprove the existence 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:58.560 of anything beyond their material understanding 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:00.920 through violence. Okay, but just as we're immersed 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:03.360 in that perspective, the text does a complete 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:05.959 180. Right. Suddenly a different voice comes 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.379 in. The narrator, we assume. And this narrator 00:06:08.379 --> 00:06:10.959 says quite plainly, these were their thoughts, 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.279 but they aired. Full stop. Yeah. For their wickedness 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:17.170 blinded them. It's a direct refutation. This 00:06:17.170 --> 00:06:19.529 narrator argues that these impious thinkers just 00:06:19.529 --> 00:06:21.889 didn't get it. They didn't understand the hidden 00:06:21.889 --> 00:06:24.589 counsels of God. Or anticipate a recompense for 00:06:24.589 --> 00:06:26.889 holiness. They miss the possibility of divine 00:06:26.889 --> 00:06:30.689 justice. And the innocent soul's reward. It introduces 00:06:30.689 --> 00:06:33.009 a whole dimension they completely ignored or 00:06:33.009 --> 00:06:35.509 denied. It shifts the entire frame. It suggests 00:06:35.509 --> 00:06:37.850 their cynical certainty was actually a form of 00:06:37.850 --> 00:06:40.689 blindness. And then comes this incredibly powerful 00:06:40.689 --> 00:06:44.660 counterstatement about human nature. For God 00:06:44.660 --> 00:06:47.620 formed us to be imperishable. Such a contrast 00:06:47.620 --> 00:06:50.800 to the puff of smoke idea earlier, imperishable. 00:06:50.939 --> 00:06:53.939 The image is his own nature he made us. That 00:06:53.939 --> 00:06:56.199 elevates humanity completely differently, doesn't 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:59.680 it? It suggests inherent enduring value. Absolutely. 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.540 It's a profound statement about human dignity 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:05.720 and destiny directly opposing the idea of random 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:08.300 birth and utter annihilation. And this narrator 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:10.660 even offers an explanation for death itself, 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:13.040 which the first group just accepted as a brute 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.279 fact. Death, according to this view, entered 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:19.120 the world through the envy of the devil. And 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:22.449 it primarily affects those allied with him. So 00:07:22.449 --> 00:07:25.050 it introduces this whole moral and spiritual 00:07:25.050 --> 00:07:27.490 dimension to life and death that was totally 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.410 absent before. So you end up with these two just 00:07:30.410 --> 00:07:33.350 fundamentally opposed viewpoints side by side 00:07:33.350 --> 00:07:35.649 in the same text. It's quite remarkable. On one 00:07:35.649 --> 00:07:38.310 hand you've got this view. Life is short. It 00:07:38.310 --> 00:07:41.170 ends so grab all the pleasure you can and morality 00:07:41.170 --> 00:07:43.660 based on strength is fine. And on the other, 00:07:43.939 --> 00:07:47.120 a belief in an imperishable human essence created 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:50.660 by God with death being an intrusion and an ultimate 00:07:50.660 --> 00:07:53.600 divine justice or reward. It really lays out 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:55.660 these perennial choices, these different ways 00:07:55.660 --> 00:07:57.560 of facing our own mortality. And you can see 00:07:57.560 --> 00:07:59.800 echoes of both perspectives throughout history 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:02.459 and even today, can't you, people still wrestle 00:08:02.459 --> 00:08:04.660 with these exact same core ideas. Absolutely. 00:08:05.060 --> 00:08:06.399 The question of whether this life is all there 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:08.680 is and how that answer shapes the way we live. 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.399 It never gets old. This ancient text just puts 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:14.579 it so well, so bluntly. It forces you, the reader, 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:16.660 the listener, to think about your own underlying 00:08:16.660 --> 00:08:19.360 assumptions. Yeah. So thinking about these two 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:22.259 ancient paths laid out the path of eat, drink, 00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:24.959 and be merry for tomorrow we die versus the path 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:27.839 of inherent value and something beyond what shapes 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:29.879 your understanding. It's not about finding a 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:32.639 simple answer right now, maybe, but just noticing 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:35.639 which viewpoint resonates or perhaps challenges 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:38.259 you more. Why might that be? Definitely something 00:08:38.259 --> 00:08:40.299 to mull over. Thanks for taking this deep dive 00:08:40.299 --> 00:08:40.940 with us today.