What do they look like without the hat? Take
the hat off. Good question. No, no, no. We have
to get a super chat for him to take the hat off.
Yeah, what do you look like with the hat off?
What do you look like? Got long hair? Short hair?
I actually have a conspiracy theory that Debian
is just Gen 2 with a GUI installer because I'm
sitting here saying, okay, let me build my Hugo
site. Oh, no, my Hugo version is 40 versions
behind because it's on 111 .3, not 152 .2, which
is what I'm used to. So I'm like, okay, no problem.
Let me just build that from source. I got to
use Go to build Hugo. Go is on version 1 .19,
not... 1 .25 .4 so i can't actually get go so
i've got to compile go from source to compile
hugo from source to load my to like start developing
my website let me preemptively say what link
cars is going to say on guys on my mac os machine
it works totally fine i don't know what you're
talking about the best unix distro look now i
have a question for you guys Do you realize about
the issue until the video is recorded or can
you hear it in real time? Because sometimes you'll
think you hit the start button, but you didn't.
Or it was already started and what you did was
click stop. Yeah. Because sometimes you get on
backwards. And then 17 hours later, you're finished
with your Linux from scratch tutorial, but you
didn't record any of it. So nobody believes that
you even, you know. Another pro tip, if you're
going to do like a two hour. Wayland or X11.
What are your guys' thoughts? Not everything
works on Wayland. Keep X11, definitely. X11?
Okay. Why, Andrea? Incredibly based. If you're
listening to this as a podcast, remember that
it was originally recorded as a video. If you're
not following along, you can go to my YouTube
channel. My username is Linkarsu. And if you
want to support me to keep this podcast going,
you can donate in Ko -fi. I'm going to leave
a link in the description. All right? So let's
get started with this chapter then. Andrea, do
you want... Do you want to... give us the the
goal you want to start you want to you want to
do the countdown so we start one two three start
there we go thank you so hey everyone we have
four guests today we have andrea distro tube
darth and tony you guys already know them yeah
i think we all know this crowd yeah yeah all
of my audience pretty much um knows you guys
but We're just going to do the introductions.
We have a timer on the screen, right? So each
one of the guests is going to have three minutes
so you guys can talk about yourselves. Just in
case there's someone in the audience that doesn't
know you. What are the topics that we're going
to be covering today? We're going to be talking
about Debian versus Arch. It's not like a versus,
you know, that was just to create some drama
around it. But yeah, we're just going to discuss.
But not Linux versus Windows, no? You want to
talk about Linux? Not Windows 11 because it's
terrible. I hate it. Oh, yeah. We can talk about
Windows if you want as well. Yeah, why not? Can
I talk bad about macOS? Yes. Oh, yeah. That would
be a four versus one, I think. It's four against
one, correct. Yeah. So let's go with Andrea first.
I'm going to start the timer, Andrea, so you
can talk about yourself, like how you got started
with Linux, with computers, about your YouTube
channel. Yeah, anything that you want to share
about you, I'm going to start the timer. And
when the three minutes are done, we're going
to stop and we're going to move then to the next
guest. Okay? Yeah. So my time starts now. Yep.
It starts now. Well, I'm Andrea Borman. I used
to use Windows 7. and Windows 8 and Windows XP.
And then three and a half years ago in 2022,
I switched to Linux full time. I used Linux Mint,
but of course I've used Linux on and off before,
mostly Linux Mint, although I didn't switch to
it. I had Windows on the other computers and
Linux Mint on the spare, which I hardly ever
used, but I was a diehard Windows user until
life got unbearable on Windows 8, Microsoft dropped
support. And so... I switched to Linux full time,
wiped all the windows off my computers, got rid
of my old netbooks, and now I'm on Linux. This
is where I am now. Hi, where did you go? Do you
want me to share my screen? What do you want
me to do now? No, I'm going to share mine so
we can take a look at your channel real quick
here. At the moment, it says I've got two minutes,
four seconds. So what do we do in the two minutes,
four seconds? What do you want to talk about?
You want to talk to us about your channel? Yeah,
well, it's been going since 2009. As you see
there, the old videos are Windows videos. And,
I mean, I started making Linux videos last year
because, well, I mean, it takes a lot of time
making videos. But, you know, I started making
Linux videos last year. Before that, they were
about, what is it, Windows, weren't they? Mm
-hmm. Okay. Although I use Debian, a lot of the
software I install is from Linux Mint because
I like it. I've successfully got the Mint Software
Center on Debian. I think Debian should start
including the Mint Software Center. It's really
good. Well, you'll probably see it later on.
I'll show you later if you let me show my screen,
yeah? Yeah, we can take a look at that later.
When you give us a demo on your setup, you can
show us. When do you want me to do that? Oh,
after we do the introductions. I've only got
58 seconds, so I haven't got much time left.
The clock is ticking. Go on, continue. Share
with us about you. Well, not much really, except
I use Debian full -time now. But basically, if
you know how to use Linux Mint and Ubuntu, you'll
know how to use Debian because it's the same.
I mean, Ubuntu is based on Debian, except Ubuntu
has a lot of add -ons and they have more... tweaks
and graphical tools to make it easier. But Ubuntu
and Debian are really the same, but Ubuntu have
a few extras on their own. You know what I mean?
That's basically how to explain it in a long
story short. Okay, awesome. I think that's right,
isn't it? They're both the same, really. So if
you know how to use Ubuntu, you'll know how to
use Debian. So once you've used Linux Mint, then
you'll use Debian because it's the same operating
system, isn't it? Yeah, okay, Andrea. Really
appreciate that. Now, for people in chat, if
you have questions or if you want me to read
any messages, I'm going to read Super Chat. So
if you leave them there, we're going to take
a look at them later on. Okay. Now, next in line,
we have DistroTube. Everyone knows DT. So you
want to share a little bit about you, DT? Hey,
guys, I'm DT. Derek Taylor is my name. Everybody
knows my name on YouTube. So DT, obviously, is
my initials in real life. It's also initials
for DistroTube as well. So it's convenient that
it worked out that way. But I've been a Linux
user. I've been a Linux user. I mean, using servers
dating back to the 1990s, but full time on the
desktop since about 2008. So and, you know, I
know we're framing this as. Debian versus Arch.
I've probably spent more time on Debian and Debian
-based distributions than I have Arch, but I've
used both a lot. As a matter of fact, most of
my web servers that I use for hosting things,
almost all of them, if Ubuntu LTS server is a
choice, that's usually what I'd go with. I would
never put Arch on a server, unless you're insane,
which I'm not. But yeah, I've been doing YouTube.
Since 2017, I started the YouTube channel. So
I've been at that for a long time now, over eight
years. And it's basically all kinds of Linux
and free software related stuff. So a lot of
nerdy stuff about tiling window managers and
command line utilities, the GNU core utils, Vim,
Emacs. You know, a lot of that kind of nerdy
stuff. But also, you know, some more beginner
-friendly content as well along the way. It's
been quite the journey with YouTube because when
I started the YouTube channel, I knew nothing
about audio or video, especially on Linux. Why
would you know that stuff if you don't do YouTube
kind of content? I didn't have a camera, didn't
have a microphone. So just the whole YouTube
journey on Linux has been a... It's been a real
learning experience using all the video editors
and audio editors over the years and realizing
how much good software there is in the Linux
space, how much bad software there is in the
Linux space. There's been some challenges along
the way, but it's gotten so much better just
in those eight years. Like, it's just crazy.
And certainly in the 15 or 16 years since just
using Linux full time on the desktop, it's like
it's night and day. where Linux is at on the
desktop now than it was back then. Like now,
I mean, I've probably put hundreds of people
on Linux over the years, converting Windows machines
over to Linux. Even like, you know, elderly people
that are not tech savvy typically put those folks
on something like Ubuntu or Linux Mint or, you
know, some of those more beginner -friendly distributions.
And Linux has become so easy nowadays. Like most
of those people, I install Linux on their machines,
never hear from them again. It just, it works
partly because they don't do much on their machines.
They don't actually update the system, right?
Like they don't do anything. So, you know, so.
And you know what? I have a funny story because
I had an interview with COVID, the creative kitty,
and he's an arch user. But the funny story is
that he mentioned that he uses arch in all his
servers. And I'm like, yeah, he's not afraid
of anything. He says he's been using arch for
the past 20 years. So I guess. Yeah. I mean,
I, I'm very experienced with Arch, but I don't
need that kind of headache in my life on a server.
Because a server, I don't even want to have to
update the thing. You install it, you come back
in five years if it's still running. Good, yeah.
Okay. You can't do that with Arch. If you tried
to take an update on an Arch server after a long
time, I mean, it's guaranteed it's going to break
badly. Like you would have to completely reinstall.
Okay, awesome. Thanks, DT. Next in line, we have
Darth. What time is it for you, Darth? Where
are you located at? Central Europe, as far as
the time zone, right, in Croatia. So it's 1 .20
a .m. It's pretty bright outside for 1 .20. That's
just the lights. Oh, my time has started. Anyways,
you asked about the time, right? What I want
to hear about. I started with Linux. Actually,
I started with Unix first. It was around, I keep
forgetting the years, but it was around 95, I
think. there was these university terminals the
the 80 by 29 just just the text mode right this
is where i started learning uh about how unix
works and little tiny details and some older
guys told me you can have this at home and i
was like how there's this thing called linux
so you can install that at home and that's how
it started because it was um it was a debian
cd that i got from a um newspaper magazine. It
was Debian 1 .3 then. I don't remember the year
anymore. But, you know, it took like two days
to just get the mouse pointer on the screen back
then. You would have to install the operating
system and then you don't have any drivers because
there are no kernel modules that can be loaded.
And then you can... install the source for the
kernel recompile it get the drivers for the modem
go to the internet get the new kernel recompile
it again get the drivers for the graphics card
it would take a while compared to what Linux
is now you know later on Windows user like all
the way I don't know up to I don't know Windows
7 or something like that and I got a little bit
bored of all of the crap that's coming from from
that company after Windows 7. The 7 was pretty
okay. After that, not so much. And one of the,
just to make it shorter, one of the strongest
reasons, because I'm a gamer as well, one of
the strongest reasons why I was in fact able
to remove Windows entirely from all of my computers
was Valve and the state of gaming nowadays. It's
pretty great. Okay. And what about your YouTube
channel? You almost have 6 ,000 subs, 318 videos.
Why did you start with that? About two years
ago. So it has been climbing like steadily, you
know, nothing groundbreaking, except for one
day when DT recommended my channel. That was
a spike, a big one. But other than that, it is
going really fine. I mean, I talk usually just
about what I want. and what I'm doing with Linux
and how I feel about any topics basically that
I want to talk about. And it goes nicely, you
know. People tend to like channels that are not,
you know, when you look at the big channels with
millions of subscribers, they all feel a little
bit the same. And sometimes people want something
refreshing. So I think I can add a little bit
to that. Okay. I'm sober. We're going to respect
the time. Um, I started your timer without letting
you know. I'm sorry. Okay. Now we also have Tony,
Tony, by the way. Now this guy has the same microphone
as DT, right? Tony, why is that? Yeah. Um, so
there's two mics that people usually jump to.
Um, one is this kind of Joe Rogan mic. And the
other one is I would, I guess we can call it
the DT mic, but it's to me, it's like, if you
do some research and you kind of figure out like
there's, one better than the Joe Rogan mic. The
Joe Rogan mic is like the first one you find
on Google. And like the second one you find is
actually probably slightly better. And I think
this one actually is a little bit better. So,
um, I actually found it in one of DT's, uh, like
studio tour videos and I'm like, that looks interesting.
So I did some research. It's a pretty good broadcasting
mic. Um, but yeah, is this part of my time or?
Yeah, no, no, no. Let's start your timer. Let's
start your timer so you can share about you.
There we go. Yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, my
name is Tony and I make Linux and free software
tutorials, mostly like deep dives on one specific
topic, usually like a window manager or how to
install like a distro. And I do usually make
tutorials to accompany them, like handwritten
tutorials to accompany the videos so that people
can follow them pretty easily. So like, for example,
if I make a Linux from scratch tutorial, I'll
put it on the website so people don't have to
just watch the video. you know, follow the blog
or whatever to go along with it. And I actually
use Emacs for both the script writing process
and the tutorial on the website. So it's pretty
good for the workflow. But yeah, I think my goal
for the channel, I guess, is to provide people,
I guess, to lower friction for people that want
to use stuff that seems complicated, but it's
actually not that bad when you just jump into
it. So, you know, provide some guides and stuff
like that. And, you know, right now what I've
been working on outside of like the tutorial
and the YouTube stuff is I've been working on
this window manager that's similar to DWM. And
but it has more batteries included and has more
of a friendly config process. So I've been writing
that and actually been daily driving it for about
a month or two. And it's been pretty smooth.
I might make a video on it soon when it's kind
of more dialed. But, yeah, I guess for today's
debate, I know it's like a debate or whatever.
I do want to plan to make the case that Arch
is the best legacy distro, like in terms of legacy
distros. I think Arch is definitely the best.
And then Debian is, I will say, not ideal for
certain types of users, but I actually will say
it is ideal for other types. And we'll get into
that later for sure. But yeah, I think the reason
that I got into YouTube was because a couple
of my friends kept asking me, hey, like, how
do I install Arch Linux? So I would link them
a video like. there's a video that I would like
link them every time. And here's a video on how
to install Arch Linux. And I decided, you know
what, maybe I'll just try making my own videos
so that I can just send them my own video. And
I made that for my friends and it ended up getting
some views from just random people and some comments
from random people on the internet. So I was
like, you know what, I'll make a Gentoo version
of this too. And that one got more views. So
basically you just kept going from there. And
then you have to kind of go full circle. That's
when I started thinking, okay, there's way more
that goes into YouTube than just like what people
see on that side. And that's where I got, And
some information from DT's channel, a lot of
help from him. He makes a lot of content on like
YouTube, things that you don't know, like going
into it, you know, like camera stuff, mic stuff,
recording, editing, all that stuff. So, yeah,
that's how I have the same mic. I literally have
the same microphone as him. And so, yeah, it's
interesting. But yeah, that's I'll reclaim my
time or whatever. You guys can take my 13 seconds
back. But yeah, that's about it. Well, I would
like to use these few seconds because I meant
to tell Darth that not a lot of men. Would rock
that red fedora like that. But, man, you pull
it off. I wish I could do it, but I don't look
good in hats. I look weird wearing a hat. Yeah,
I get most comments from people who don't like
the company. What do they look like without the
hat? Take the hat off. Good question. Would you
look like without the hat? No, no, no. We have
to get a super chat for him to take the hat off.
Yeah, what do you look like with the hat off?
What do you look like? Got long hair, short hair?
Don't see many men in hats these days. They're
not fashionable, are they? You used to see them
50 years ago, but now not many people wear a
hat, do they? No. It's just gentlemen. Honestly,
this doesn't really work in the real world outside.
You don't wear it outside when you go shopping
or anything? No, you don't wear it outside? No,
I tried once. Why not? With a red jacket, maybe?
I like red. Here in my city, we have a yearly
Linux kind of conference. Where are you? In Eastern
Europe, what country are you? Where are you?
What country are you in? Yeah, Croatia. I've
heard of it. Croatia. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
That's all pretty much one big bundle. Yeah,
I've heard of it. I know. I wanted to say that
there is this local Linux conference to which
I went, and I was thinking about wearing this,
but I just left it in the car. Why? I was like,
let's blend in. I got a question for you, actually,
if you don't mind me asking, Darth. Are you an
industry plant? I've heard a theory that you're
an industry plant from Red Hat. To kind of subvert
the canonical situation? Like, is that what's
been going on here? And if that is the case,
are you allowed to admit that or no? I mean,
I might do the blink thing on camera, but I'm
not really allowed to comment on that. You have
to pay to use Red Hat. It's not free. It's not
a free operating system. You have to pay to use
it, don't you? It's like Windows. It's not free,
is it? Red Hat's not free. You have to pay. For
a personal... For personal usage, you actually
can get it without paying the money, but... I
didn't know you had to pay for Red Hat. I heard
you had to pay to use it. You can get it without
paying, but it's... But they don't have much.
They've only got their own desktop, and with
Wayland, I don't think I'd like that, would I?
No, the question is... Andrea, Andrea, the question
is, does he use Red Hat? Maybe he does, yeah.
Could do. That's a good question, yeah. Do you
use Red Hat? He uses FreeBSD. I've seen some
tutorials on FreeBSD. He uses FreeBSD as well,
don't you? Yeah, I actually like every free software.
So free software is cool. I couldn't even get
it installed, FreeBSD. I couldn't even get it.
Maybe I can help you with that. I think all free
software is really cool in the terms of what
it brings to the community. You can't even get
it running in FreeBSD. It's all command prompts.
You can't use it, can you? I couldn't. Yeah,
yeah, you have to. I'll never use it, will I?
The FreeBSD installer is very similar to the
old Debian in -curses installer. So why not when
it works in Virtual Machine and Invert Manager?
It doesn't work on... Oh, yeah. Well, in a virtual
machine, it could be a driver problem. What about
distro .c, the website where you can try out?
I tried it on distro .c. It was just commands,
weren't it? I didn't know what command you're
supposed to put in to start it, do you? How did
it start? Didn't get very far. The same with
art. Andrea, do you want to show us a tour of
your desktop? We're going to switch to your screen.
Why not? So do you want me to do it now? Yes,
you're going to have... I'll just put the browser
down so that you can see my screen, yeah? You're
going to have three minutes and you can show
us what you got on your screen, like the window
manager. This is Debian with GNOME Flashback.
Well, because there's two types of GNOME. There's
main GNOME and GNOME Flashback. Now, Debian and
Ubuntu supports GNOME Flashback. And with it,
you get a menu like this with all your applications.
And you can put icons on the desktop. This is
where you minimize buttons. And this is the control
center, a typical control center that you get.
The control center is very, very nice. And you've
got the option to change things. And I see you've
got these lovely Ubuntu wallpapers. And for the
spirit of Ubuntu, why don't we change it to this?
And now my desktop's changed. And what else do
we have? This is another way you can launch your
apps through here. And what have we got here?
Mint's driver manager, which I installed. No
hacks. I just installed, but unless it's only
three minutes, I think. Well, what I want to
show you, since I've only got three minutes left,
is how about the software manager, the Mint Software
Center, because we want to launch it, don't we?
The Mint Software Center works on Devlin. You
must see this because you've got Synaptic, but
anyone who wants a graphical. Software Center,
don't use GNOME software. Don't use Plasma Discover.
They're not very good. Use this. There's no flat
packs installed. But see, if you want to install
something, it's pretty simple. You've got screenshots.
You've got reviews. How long have I got left?
Oh, you have two minutes left. Oh, because I'm
roughing away. And you see the way they've listed
everything up. I mean, you can even install desktop
environments. For example. Not that I would.
I would probably do it from Synaptic or Terminal.
You can install a full desktop environment from
here, which is amazing, isn't it? The last time
we talked, you said that you were using Debian
as your daily driver. Is it Mint now? No, I'll
prove to you that it is Debian. You'll see it
here. If I just open up this little terminal
and fast -fetch, you'll see what it is. This
doesn't lie. Oh, okay. It is Debian. Okay. But,
you know, the Debian wallpapers are not very
good. You know, the Debian wallpapers is horrible.
This is something they don't do very well, the
wallpapers. So I've got the wallpapers from Linux
Mint and from Ubuntu Cinnamon. For example, if
you want a touch of Ubuntu Cinnamon, you've got
this. I'll put it back to how it was. It's nice.
It's fairly easy to get along with, really, isn't
it? Well, we're back here, aren't we? Yep, yep.
Well, there's quite a lot to see, but I thought
I'd show you the Mint Software Center. For anyone
that wants to install it, go to my channel and
there's a tutorial on it. Awesome. Thanks for
sharing that, Andrea. Really appreciate it. Mint
Software Center. Mint Software Center. Okay,
awesome. Linux Mint Software Manager. Whatever,
yeah. Okay. We have a super chat here. Let me
show it to you. What does that mean? It's when
someone sends money to you on YouTube. And it
says, Andrea rocks. And it was sent by Linux
Renaissance, which is in the call, by the way.
I can't receive money. We have to set it up in
your account if you want to. Well, I'm on welfare
benefits. We're not on disability benefits because
I can't work. We're not allowed to work if you're
on benefits. It's the law in England. If you're
on benefits, you're not allowed to work. It's
against the law to work and claim benefits, so
I can't. Oh, I see. So it's against the law.
I don't want to do anything that's not legal.
Oh, makes sense. I'm on benefits because I'm
not able to work. We're not allowed to work in
claim benefits. I'm unable to work because I'm
unfit for work, so I've got disability benefits.
So we're not allowed to work. So you cannot get
any sort of income, not even from YouTube, right?
Well, I'm not able to work. Well, if I was able
to work, I wouldn't be on disability benefits.
I'm not able to work. I can't work. That's why
I'm on the disability benefits in the first place,
because of that. So you're not allowed to work
and claim benefits. It is illegal. It's against
the law in England. Against the law. Makes sense.
Okay, that explains it. Okay, okay. We have another
super chat here. And from Jan Dahl. DKK, what
is this? DKK20. Danish, maybe. I'm not sure.
Okay. An English person who's actually English.
That's the message that he sent. Yeah, I'm English
from London. Oh, okay. Awesome. Okay. Thank you,
Andrea. Now we're going to move to the next guest,
which is DistroTube. He's going to give us a
quick show on his setup. Okay. Let me switch
to your screen, DT. Just a minute. There we go.
We can see it now. Yeah. So my setup may have
some issues because I, yeah, I just reinstalled.
the operating system on this computer just a
few days ago. So this is a brand new installation
of cache EOS. I haven't got everything set up
exactly right. There's some missing programs
for some of the scripts and stuff that I typically
have on. But my window manager of choice is all
it's a standard kind of tiling window manager,
you know, dynamic kind of tiling window manager.
You guys have probably, you know, seen, you know,
this kind of window manager before. So Back to
here. And you're on CacheOS, right, DT? I am.
What about DTOS? So DTOS was what I was running,
right? It's basically Arch Linux with my repos
and everything. But on the reinstall, I just
reinstalled using Cache. And I'm probably just
going to... I'm going to try to simplify my life
instead of trying to maintain my own distro basically
for me. I had so many side projects going on.
I can't keep up with it with everything in life.
And then, you know, the YouTube channels and
everything I do with YouTube and just, you know,
I've got too much going on. So I'm going to simplify
a lot of stuff, get rid of some of my GitLab
projects. But, you know, for example. One of
the projects I've been working on for a number
of years I haven't done much with lately was
the DM scripts, which is the various DMenu slash
Rofi scripts that I have. Some of these are not
even working properly these days because they
were contributed by other people that didn't
fully flesh them out in the first place. They
never completed it. And I'm not going to go back
behind them and try to work on some of those
scripts because it wasn't my project to begin
with. Some of them I have no use for. So I've
got a lot of cleaning up to do. So that's part
of why I did the reinstall is I really just needed
a fresh start. So right now I don't have a lot
of stuff installed on this system right now.
It's just the Qtile window manager. That's the
only window manager. I've got Emacs. I've got
the Brave web browser and not much else. OBS,
Kdenlive, GIMP, Audacity, and that's just all
for content creation. I have not even... like
enabled snaps or flat packs or any of that stuff.
This is all just native Arch slash cache packages
right now. I'm using snaps and flat packs and
app images because I had them all on my previous
installation. But at least right now, that's
what I've got going on on this system. The terminal
you saw was just alacrity is the terminal I've
been using for a number of years. It works, so
I stick with it most of the time. When I'm not
in a web browser, I'm either in the terminal
or I'm in Emacs for what I do. So that's where
I spend most of my time. Okay. And why did you
decide to go with CacheOS? Do you mind sharing
that with us? Because I had never installed it
on any of my machines. Oh, I see. Yeah. It's
very popular these days, but I had never actually
ran it myself. So I was like, well, I'm going
to install an Arch -based system. Let me give
this a try. The installer was very nice because
it gives you the opportunity to install whatever
desktop or window manager. You could make a really
minimal install, which is what I did. So it's
been nice so far. Awesome. Anyone has any questions?
Tony has been really quiet today. What's going
on, Tony? No, I'm just respecting the timer.
Oh, okay. Anyone has any questions for DT or
wants to add something? You're from the Deep
South, aren't you, Derek? I am. We see lots of
Americans in London, but very few people from
the Deep South, yeah? Yeah, I live in Louisiana.
You're from the Deep South, aren't you? Yeah,
I live in Louisiana. Yeah, I bet the weather's
warm. The weather we have in England's not very
nice. It's been monsooning all day. It is very
weird because right now it is in the 30s outside,
which is very cold for this part of the world.
80 degrees Fahrenheit. That's hot in England.
We don't get below freezing very often where
I live. In the north in New York. So he said
it's in the 30s, which is pretty cold. Yeah,
it's Fahrenheit. Because obviously in Celsius,
that would be like two degrees Celsius. Two degrees
Celsius. Damn. No, that's more like it here in
England. We get that now. It's winter and it
rains all the time. It's been raining nearly
every day today. Raining and raining and raining
every day. But in the evening it monsoons. That's
why I have the hat. Because it's raining. It
monsoons in England. We get monsoony rain. It
monsoons. You get so much rain. It was monsooning
a few hours ago. So what do you prefer, Andrea?
You prefer... The cold weather or you prefer
the sun? Well, I don't have a car. It's difficult
to get out when it rains. You get soaking wet
so you don't want to go out or you have to take
taxes or you have to stay in whatever. If you
have to go out in the rain, it's awful, isn't
it? It monsoons. It monsoons. I mean, monsoon.
You know monsoony rain. When it rains in England,
it monsoons. It's always raining a lot. Oh, okay.
Or in the summer it's too hot. It's even too
cold in the winter or too hot in the summer.
We get horrible weather here. We've got about
three months out of the year during the summer
where it's 100 degrees every day. In the summer
it's terrible, too hot. The winter, it's cold.
We get the extreme. That would be like 212. When
it's not like that, it mums soon. Too cold. Too
right. That's like too... I got a question for
DT, actually, back on the Cache stuff. Okay,
so you mentioned you switched to Cache, and I
think partially because you were kind of on a
quest to fix your audio issues. Did you ever
end up having more issues after you disabled
the... Desktop, whatever desktop audio on OBS.
Oh, that actually that was the issue. If I disable
just recording desktop audio and OBS, everything's
fine. Yeah. OK, that's interesting. But, you
know, for 95 percent of the videos I record,
I don't need to record desktop audio. Rarely
do I want to record desktop audio because if.
I'm viewing something in the web browser and
like there's a multimedia ad playing or something.
I would never want the music playing because
that could trigger a copyright in YouTube. So
but when I'm on a Zoom call or a Discord call,
something like this, I have to record the desktop
audio, obviously. So doing this kind of video,
I would have to enable it and I would get all
kinds of weird crap going on with the audio.
Like just like clipping or something like what
kind of stuff was it? It was just dropped audio
frames like every night. two to three minutes,
there would be a section of about two seconds
where it's like three or four really quick audio
frames drop, where it would just garble two or
three words and completely butcher a sentence.
I noticed that recently, too. I don't know what's
going on with that. I get the same thing. Disable
the desktop audio if you don't need it, and that
fixed my problem, so it'll probably fix your
problem. Let me preemptively say what Linkars
is going to say. Guys, on my macOS machine, it
works totally fine. I don't know what you're
talking about. No, no, no. The best Unix distro.
Look. Now, I have a question for you guys. Do
you realize about the issue until the video is
recorded or can you hear it in real time? No.
When I'm recording my microphone, I'm not previewing
it because that's weird. Oh, I preview it. I
know some people can do that, but I don't like
it. I don't like monitoring my own voice. Yeah,
usually if you will preview your microphone,
you will preview it directly through the hardware.
Yeah, it would probably sound just fine. Just
fine, yeah. But for the computer, you get a delay.
I preview it in OBS. I did a stream on Sunday
and a Zoom call with my chat with patrons. It
was fine streaming to YouTube because I'm recording.
I had to enable the desktop audio in OBS to stream
to YouTube, but I didn't record it. If I recorded
it, the recorded audio would be garbled. Yes,
here's something weird about the difference.
So I'm on Debian, and when I record static videos,
like just talking to the camera, maybe showing
something on the desktop, but there is nothing
playing on the desktop. This is the only capture
device that I have, and I get these problems
with garbled audio. And then I have a live stream
where I play a video game for... an hour or two
or three hours and i have both the game audio
and the microphone audio and i don't have any
issues so how is that possible i don't know it's
an industry plant from the gaming complex they
want you to play more games yeah yeah probably
yeah i'm gonna do that yeah fine i always find
it later when i'm editing the video and then
i have to like re -record that part that part
of me talking over it or whatever and then it's
like yeah it's or sometimes actually i've been
getting lucky where the part that's clipped is
like just something I wasn't intending on putting
in the final video anyway. So I'm like, I can
leave that part out anyway. I'm listening to
myself right now when I do it, when I record
every video. At the beginning, I hated it, but
I just got used to it and I can catch, you know,
issues. So that's the reason I do it now. You
like the sound of your own voice? You love it
or you just like it? No, I don't like it at all.
You love it? No. I can actually hear myself if
I dial up the knob here. The knob? Yeah. No,
you're just right. Now, you guys mentioned copyright
strikes. I know it's not part of the discussion
or anything, but have you guys dealt with copyright
issues? Well, you're not monetized, Andra, right?
So I guess you don't get any copyright issues
on your YouTube account? No, I haven't had any
now. No? What about you, DT? Oh, I've had hundreds
of videos that have had issues in the past. Not
lately. It's gotten better. When I first started
YouTube, there was a period of time, seven, eight
years ago, where for whatever reason, they were
just demonetizing a lot of Linux content creators.
Like, you'd upload a video, and as soon as it
was uploaded, it would be demonetized. And then
you'd appeal it, and it would always get overturned
two or three days later. But by that time...
If you'd already published the video, you've
got all the views you were going to get out of
that video. So now they monetize it. Nobody's
watching it anymore. And why did that happen?
There was probably a period. Why did that happen
in the past? What was the reason? YouTube is
never going to tell you what happened. They're
never going to apologize and say, oops, we're
sorry. We demonetized every video you made in
the last year. And, you know, they don't do that.
It's gotten better now. I haven't had those issues.
But I mean, I've had videos that they demonetized
and never overturned. I had a video on configuring
the QTOL window manager, oddly enough, that they
demonetized. I appealed. The appeal was rejected.
And it's strictly just me writing some Python
code. I don't even use bad language in my videos.
There's just nothing in that video. They're like,
nope, nope, this is not safe for children. We're
going to age restrict it. I'm like, what? No
response on when you tried to submit like an
appeal? Yeah, nothing. No, it's just rejected,
which I know nobody actually watched the video
because there's nothing in the video. So I know
that a human being actually didn't take it seriously
and actually. Maybe it was one of your competitors
at the time had like industry plant connections
and said they wanted to get that demonetized.
Yeah, one of them working at Google. If you're
working at Google, you're probably not making
YouTube videos because you're doing pretty well,
right? You don't need YouTube. Yeah. What about
you, Darth? Have you had any issues? Just a couple.
Like last week, I streamed some really weird
indie game. Like probably nobody would even want
to play this. That's how indie it was. And after
the stream ended, I got notified that the stream
has the music that is, you know, played by someone.
So I can't, I cannot, I can monetize it, but
in a way that the money goes to the one who made
the music. To the game developer. Yeah. Because
they own the music, right? Yeah. Was it Undertale?
No, the game. Yeah, the game. Or is it the one
that looked like Quake that you were playing
the other day? No, no, it's called Baika, which
means fairytale in English. And I've had a couple
of videos like that in the past where, yeah,
I don't know if it was games or videos I played
on things. And yeah, you know, you're demonetized.
Any ads we run on this is the other creators
getting this, which I get. So I never worry about
those. I've had a couple of situations like that.
Yeah. I know Linkarzu has had, if you want me
to release this, have you had some kind of scam
with the B -roll with somebody claiming that
the B -roll you used was partially yours and
they wanted to share your monetization? It didn't
demonetize me because it was before I published
the video, but I thought it was only audio related.
But it turns out that it's also related to video.
If you add clips and those clips, someone...
claims them even if they have no audio at all
they can demonetize your video and i was like
yeah and i downloaded i downloaded the um the
the b -roll from what's it called pixels or pexabay
or something oh pixels yeah and in theory you
know it's just stuff that you can use but no
it's yeah you can get demonetized i mean for
me i've had two situations one i have like um
i was using some Claire DeLune, like, you know,
that very famous song, some recording of it.
And I got a strike saying like, oh, this is copyrighted
and it's from this Korean channel. And it wasn't
like that's not where I got it. I got it from
some other source. So I just I just refuted the
claim. And then 30 days later, they had just
the person on the other end had never said anything.
So they just I won the claim or whatever. But
then like the other time is I had like a discussion
with you once, Linkarzu, and I kept using the
term proprietary garbage. So I got a letter from
DT's office or whatever saying, hey, that's my
phrase. You got to kind of chill out with that.
You know what I mean? So we're in a discussion
on kind of how we can both share monetization
on the proprietary garbage phrase. But I thought
it was a Creative Commons license. Well, it's
interesting because... Adverts are a nuisance.
They just keep playing more and more adverts.
They're a pain in the neck. You know, you can't
listen. You're trying to listen to someone's
tutorial, and all of a sudden they play the adverts,
and I can't concentrate. I hate these adverts.
I really do. Ublock Origin, Andrea. Let's get
you set up on Ublock Origin. That's a good idea.
Well, I think Brave Browser has that, but not
Google Pro. Brave, that's already built in. Yep,
it sure is. That's what I use because I... Are
we allowed to do that? I don't think we're allowed,
are we? We are, legally. Brave is free. Free
software. Maybe I could use Firefox with an add
-on. Oh, I've got Firefox already. Why don't
you try Brave? Give Brave a try so you don't
have to install anything additional. The reason
I installed Brave at first... Brave has got so
many add -ons and AI and that. It's not... I
wouldn't say it's all that... You like Google
Chrome? Or Chromium? Well, Chromium's not up
to date because you can only get it from the
package manager. You can't download it. Whereas
Google Chrome, you download it from the site,
and it updates, and you don't have to wait for
Debian or Ubuntu to update it, do you, Google
Chrome? It's got the auto -updating on it. You
can't use Firefox CSR either. I installed a web
browser myself. I downloaded Firefox myself from
the Firefox website, same in Waterbox, and I
installed it myself. Well, with Debian, they
haven't got the updated ones, have they? They've
got the CSR. Yeah, I need to correct the incorrect
statement here. Chromium is up -to -date. Chromium
is up -to -date on Debian. Oh, Google Chrome
was the most. But you can't download it from
the internet. It's only like a bleeding -head
version. It's not for everyday use. There is
a download for Chromium. So you can only get
Chromium from the package manager, but Google
Chrome downloads itself. It is up -to -date.
The one that is Chromium in Debian. Google Chrome
is Chromium. It's the same, isn't it? I'm talking
about the blue icon. The blue icon is up -to
-date. Not the blue one. There's two. All right.
Moving on to the next guest that is going to
show his screen. We're going to move to Darth's
screen because he's going to demo his workflow
really quick. Okay. So we're going to start the
timer and move to his screen. Okay. So where's
the screen? Hold on. Hold on. There we go. That's
a screensaver, isn't it? Oh, no, KDE. KDE. Surprise,
surprise. Okay, so this is KDE Plasma with default
wallpaper. But you don't have the taskbar at
the bottom, do you? You've moved the taskbar.
Yeah, it's here. It's here. It's at the top.
No, no, no. The taskbar is still down there.
The top only shows the time and the icons. Well,
I thought you put the taskbar at the top and
maybe you've added PlankDoc or something like
this, because I know some people use... No, no,
it's not Plank. It's still the original PlasmaDoc.
Oh, you shrunk the taskbar. I only shrank it
to be in the middle. So it looks a little bit
like... You know, not many wallpapers haven't
made Plasma. I've installed KDE Plasma with Debian
with KDE on my other laptop. Debian tricks in
KDE on the other laptop. Yeah. Andrea, hold on.
Let's just give it a, let's, we're going to let
Daret share his screen. Okay. So he's going to
have three minutes and he can talk about his
setup. Okay. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Let's
start. Okay. So the thing that I wanted to say
actually is that I use Plasma for most of the
time. Yeah. Sorry. Hold on. Sorry. Yeah. Hold
on. The resolution is way too small. And the
YouTube chat, they have like 12 -inch computers
because they use, I don't know, like 30 -year
-old computers. They will not be able to see
anything. I'm not sure if you can inch the resolution.
I can see it, but it's very small. I can see
that. That's the control center. But you've got
it in dark mode. You don't use the light beam,
do you? Dark mode, yeah. Let's see if I can put
it to 200. Oh, yeah. That is way better. Windows
had light to use Windows 7, didn't it? We're
going to start the timer again, OK? So now Dart
has three minutes and he will share his screen.
OK, so let's go. Yeah. Now. Third time. OK, nice
one. As I said, I use KDE Plasma on this computer
because it's kind of easy to use. And the reason
why I have a default. The wallpaper is because
I just don't care. I mean, most of the time everything
is in full screen. So whatever it's beyond the
screen on which I am working on, I don't care
about the wallpaper. It can just stay as it is.
Don't use the Debian wallpaper. The one thing
they don't do well is the wallpapers, Debian.
Lousy wallpapers. Sorry, Debian. I'm very polite
and I'm going to stop when someone else is talking.
Okay, yeah. Andrea, let's leave Tarek talk for
his three minutes, okay? Yeah, so there are a
couple of game launchers here, like Steam, you
know, and Lutris, that's what I use. I use Telegram
for some private messaging, obvious, of course.
I used Kdenlive for almost two years for video
editing. Now I'm trying out DaVinci free version
and it's a little bit crap in terms of what you
can get out of it for free. Yeah, I know the
Mac gives you free, I mean free. It has built
-in codecs. I'm just messing with you, man. No,
no, I actually agree because the Mac has some
built -in codecs that are paid for by Apple,
as far as I know, so DaVinci can just use them
for free. So that is a little bit of advantage,
but generally you would have to pay for this
software if you want to use it properly. And
GIMP, of course, for editing thumbnails and some
stuff like that. Krita is really cool because
I have a tablet for drawing. So when I'm teaching
something, I can draw and explain some things
easier with a pen. That works really good in
Krita, the tablet thingy. That's pretty much
what I can show here. What about your terminal?
What is your terminal? uh believe it or not it's
console because why not i i'm just you know this
computer uh this may be a little bit topic for
later uh because uh this computer is supposed
to be really reliable and i don't really have
the urge to modify it too much i have another
laptop on which i use openbsd and that one i
modify quite a lot i use x11 and dwm and We can
get into that soon. But that one is for like
a pleasure drive, a pleasure in terms of modifications
of the operating system and rising and stuff
like that. And this one is just for like work,
work and play. Okay. Okay. Awesome. Thanks, Art.
Anything else you want to share? Because we interrupted
you. Quite a few times. We haven't even started
with the questions we have for today. But anything
else you want to share? No, I think we can continue
with the next guest. He did make one controversial
statement. He said he doesn't care about wallpapers.
And to me, it's all about the wallpapers. I have
my own script, basically my own wallpaper setter,
where I've got like 350 wallpapers that I've
collected over the years. Because it's all about,
you know. I've got to have some eye candy. It
does most of the heavy lifting, right? It really
does. It doesn't matter. I can deal with bad
audio and desktops crashing. If the wallpaper
is good, I'm set. Okay. What if the content is
in full screen? It's a little bit difficult to
get the wallpaper. Do you have a transparent
DT? Is your terminal transparent? Oh, no. I hate
transparent terminals. Oh. I can't stand it.
Yeah, I turn off the transparency if it's enabled.
That's another, what did you say? Controversial
statement. Controversial statement, yeah, because
the laptop that I do rice, it has a PCOM compositor,
and I set it to make my terminal slightly transparent
so I can peek through the dust of wallpaper.
Look at that. Isn't that beautiful? You can see
it a little bit there. Yeah, that's how I have
it set up on the other computer, yeah. Just a
little bit, like 90 % opaque. Yeah, a little
bit, yeah. All right. So, Tony's next. Yeah,
no, yeah, definitely. I can show kind of what
I do on my setup here. Okay. Hold on, Tony. I'm
going to switch to your screen right now. And
we're going to start the timer. Let's go. Right
on. Well... The first thing I'm going to do right
now is... DT says he hates transparency, so let's
get that out of here. Okay, so for this, I am
using OXWM. It's like the window manager I was
talking about. It's kind of like DWM, inspired
by DWM at least, but it has disk batteries included,
such as this bar. You can put your own widgets
in the bar and stuff. And certain things like
tab mode is included by default. and stuff like
that. And I think the biggest thing about this
is that, that I think is better than DWM is that
it's not arbitrarily like really annoying to
configure with like make file and stuff. Like
you can just, you know, you can just change a
setting just like your, whatever you're used
to. So let's say I want to change D menu to Rofi
or whatever, or I guess I already did, but let's
say I want to change Rofi to D menu. I can change
my key bind here. And then I have my mod key
D here set up. I can just comment this one here.
go over to D menu, change this to Rofi show D
run. And then I can just hot reload. Cause again,
you know, trying to stay away from the whole
suckless meme where you can't hot reload out
of the box and a lot of stuff. I think every
window manager should have that by default. So
that's kind of what I'm been daily driving is
this window manager that I've made. And yeah,
it's been nice. So that's your window manager,
the one that you're demoing right now, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So it's pretty cool. And then, I've
been working on it for a while, and I think it's
to a point where I just submitted it to Nix packages,
and it got approved. So if it gets merged to
Nix packages, it could just be in Nix packages,
so that could be cool. And then why I like Arch
Linux too is because you can just make a package
build for something like this, and then it's
in the AUR. So now people can download this window
manager with the AUR just by using parry or yay
or whatever. answer there's that and yeah just
uh you know can go around like um you know just
change sizes of windows basically it's it's like
qtile or dwm or whatever but you know you can
work on something like let's say i want to work
on this c project or whatever and like um you
know uh it's saying like oh you know failed here
and then you go see what's going on with here
okay how to change this to an int right okay
this is a float you see what i'm saying and then
you kind of Okay. Next. Okay. You see what I'm
saying? So it's, it's, it's really convenient
to hop around without using the mouse. You just
switch terminals with the key binds and stuff
and everything. It's like kind of where you want
it. Um, but yeah, that's kind of my workflow.
I don't, I'm a one monitor guy with most of my
workflow until I started making YouTube videos.
And now I think with the YouTube videos, I need
at least two or three monitors for that. But
besides that, just one monitor. So me too, one
monitor, but YouTube, I cannot do one. Yep. Too
difficult. I need three for YouTube, actually.
Well, you've got to preview what you're recording.
Yeah, exactly. Especially if you're recording
your desktop, but you need OBS on a totally separate
monitor. Otherwise, you could be recording the
wrong thing. I've done that before. You can attach
it to your television, HDMI. You can attach it
to a television, the computer. Yeah. But when
you record, like, a 15 - or 20 -minute video
and then realize, I recorded the wrong thing.
No. Because I wasn't previewing. I've had that
happen. For those of you that do any kind of
audio podcasting or even video of things like
this, make sure that you're recording the audio
and you've previewed the audio in a recording
in OBS before you really start recording. Simple
screen recorder. That's what I use. Simple screen
recorder. I have been in situations where we've
recorded for two hours and then realized, oh,
I didn't record the audio or they didn't record
the audio. Oh, man. That sucks. Yeah, I think
I kind of use one of your tricks, actually. Like
I saw you say this once where you have like PC
man FM or something like that just for the purpose
of, you know, when you start recording, like
a file gets generated or whatever. Yeah, I've
gotten into the habit every time I hit the start
recording button in OBS. I look for that file
to be created because it's not created. Something
ain't right. And then when you're done with that
little clip, you can kind of just watch that
to see kind of, okay, is the audio good? Are
we good here? If you want, but yeah, the main
thing is the file gets created. Yeah. Because
sometimes you'll think you hit the start button,
but you didn't, or it was already started. And
what you did was click stop. Yeah. Because sometimes
you get on backwards. So yeah. And then 17 hours
later, you're finished with your Linux from scratch
tutorial, but you didn't record any of it. So
nobody believes that you're even, you know. Another
pro tip, if you're going to do like a two hour
recording like this, Split it up into sections,
you know, every 10, 15 minutes. Hey, stop. And
then start again. That way, if there's a problem,
at worst, you've only screwed up 10 to 15 minutes
of recording instead of a whole two hour block.
We're now, OK, can we reschedule this, you know,
later this week and redo it all again? Oh, yeah.
Makes sense. OK, now, what is this video about?
What is this conversation about? We have two
Debian users here on the left hand side. Andrea.
In Dart. Debian. And Ubuntu. Don't forget Ubuntu.
That's part of Debian. And Linux Mint. Don't
forget them as well. Debian, yeah, exactly. And
we have DT and Tony on Arch, right? You've got
to give credit to Linux Mint. They're one of
the best. Linux Mint as well, okay. Do you want
to share with us, Andrea, why do you prefer Debian
and why didn't you go with something like Arch,
for example? Why Debian and not Orange? Well,
I started with Linux Mint. I never even started
with Arch. I started with Linux Mint. That was
my first one. Uh -huh. But the thing is, I got
pulled into Debian by accident because I still
had my 32 -bit netbooks and Debian was still
doing 32 -bit at the time and that's how it caught
my attention. And also, I wasn't happy on Snaps
and Flatpaks, happy with Snaps and Flatpaks because
they took up a lot of the disk space. But with
Debian, it's optional. They don't come with Snaps
and Flatpaks. You can install them, but you don't
have to. So I installed that. I mean, Linux Mint's
all right, but they don't do it. Ubuntu had the
option of installing the minimal desktop with
just a desktop environment, and then you add
your own media players and software. But Linux
Mint... I mean, I don't like Helioid Media Player
that comes with Linux Mint and some of the other
stuff they have. I like VLC. And they come with
a lot of things. I like VLC, and I don't think
I like their photo viewer either. And what do
you think about... do the desktop environment,
then cherry pick the software I want to install,
like the media player, the, what is it, the web
browser and the text editor and the PDF viewer
and even the office suite. Andrea, and what do
you think about Arch as a Debian user? Well...
Well, I couldn't even use it. When I tested it
out in DistroC, which is a website where you
can test out Linux operating systems, all I got
was a Camille prompt, so I never even got a chance
to see it. Because on DistroC, when you boot
into ART, all you get is a Camille prompt. So
is that enough? That's not enough. I don't think
I'd even enter in it. If somebody gave me an
installation disk, I don't think I'd even begin
to. get very far, I wouldn't be able to install
it, would I? That's where the Arch installation
actually ends, is at the command prompt. It doesn't
install graphical programs at all. Yeah, Arch,
out of the box, doesn't... You didn't have a
software center, did I, Arch? No. You don't have
a software center or graphical package manager.
No. There's a few really bad ones. Unless you
use something like TouchyOS, or what's the...
Endeavor OS, Manjaro, etc. That's where they
have their own stuff, isn't it? Manjaro has PAMAC,
which is a GUI software center, but it's broken
most of the time. They have that on there, don't
they? They do, but nobody wants to use Discover.
You can download software from the internet with
Arch. They don't use RPM or Dev. They use something
else. I don't know what the package is. It's
the old game from the 80s. Pac -Man. Oh, that's
why you wore the shirt today. Oh, a little double
agent industry plan. I love it. Now, moving to
the next person. Right now is DT's turn, okay?
And he's just going to explain why he uses Arch
and what he thinks about Debian. Okay, so DT's
turn. Well, I mentioned before the stream, I
probably use Debian. I definitely use Debian
more than I've used Arch over the years because
Debian's been around. longer than Arch, obviously,
but I've used both a lot. But since starting
the YouTube channel, I've mainly stuck with Arch
on my machines just because when I'm doing software
demos, I want the latest software. And sometimes
I will be taking a look at software that's brand
new that just won't be in the Debian repos, right?
Because you got to wait another two, three years
before the next version of Debian stable comes
out before you get that. Well, yeah, but Debian
SID is. It keeps breaking. That's why I had to
give it up. It kept breaking. I mean, Arch is
a rolling release, and Debbie and Sid's a rolling
release, but Debbie and Unstable is really unstable,
in my opinion, compared to Arch. And I've played
around with Debbie and Sid in the past. But,
yeah, that's really why I'm on Arch, is because
it works better for what I do on YouTube. Ubuntu
and Debian are strictly for stable. You don't
necessarily get the latest and greatest on Ubuntu
and Debian, do you? Yeah, but that's what I like.
If I wasn't on YouTube, and we mentioned this,
I think, on a stream, Christian, is that if I
didn't do YouTube, if I retired from YouTube,
I would go back to Debian stable as far as on
a desktop because I wouldn't even need. Yeah,
I hate updating my software because there's a
chance of breaking. I don't want. Typically,
there's not a feature in this stuff that I want
or need. I mean, it's great when it's there,
something kind of new in the latest Emacs, whatever.
Most of the time, though, it's not something
I even know about. So I could go every two or
three years and then just update to the next
Debian stable or Ubuntu LTS or whatever kind
of long -term support kind of distro. I would
be happy on that. to be honest. Just make sure
the web browser and the things you connect to
the internet are up to date. Well, the web browser
should always be updated regardless. They should
keep that up to date, but, you know, because
of security. And Debian doesn't, not always.
They're slow to update. Well, they should, because
they're slow to do things. If Debian's not updating
the web browsers, they need to get on that. They
do, but they don't do it right away. They update,
but they don't always do it right away. Now,
it is Dara's turn. He's going to share with us
why he prefers Debian. over Arch, or what he
prefers. He uses BST as well, which is different.
Yeah, as I said earlier, I started with Debian,
and that was a long period of my life that I
only used... I mean, I used a lot of Linux distributions,
like Maindrake back in the day, even tried Red
Hat once, the original Red Hat, not the one that's
currently available. Of course, Ubuntu was really
cool back in the day. It offered quite a lot
of, how do I put it? It boosted the Linux desktop
quite significantly, I would say, because it
was super easy to use. But most of the time,
it was always kind of back to Debian. And I don't
know if it's because of the kind of first love
effect or something like that, but I just feel
at home. with this distribution and whatever
else I try, it's fine. Usually okay, but kind
of end up getting back to Debian and it's hard
to separate. When I started YouTube, then I noticed
the problem with Debian, which is pretty much
what DT said. I couldn't demo a lot of stuff
that I wanted to demo because It would take working
around the Debian stable issue. One word, AUR.
You missed the AUR. Yeah. But then I switched
to Arch Linux because I thought that this would
be what I need. And I stuck with Arch for more
than a year on all my computers. I installed
it on my main computer, on my laptops, on my
work laptop. And I had it literally everywhere
because I wanted to, you know, properly. get
into it so if i have it everywhere then i just
cannot escape it no matter how how i try and
it works fairly well for me uh you do know there's
been reports of malware in the order don't you
the risk of malware yes but i'm gonna get to
that i'm gonna ask for your question uh in a
moment arch not very safe i um yeah i kind of
lost my track here but um the reasoning why i
kind of went back to debian is because i really
need this computer to be ready for me when i
want to record something i often come back from
work with some thoughts that i want to record
this video today and i just sit with my computer
i turn on the camera click on the obs and start
recording and one day it just said the obs cannot
run because something has changed in the update
and then i usually can fix all this it's relatively
easy to fix Arch update breakages, if you can
even call them breakages. And nothing really
fell apart on my Arch journey for the... It never
fell apart too much. Just a little bit this program
doesn't work because this library updated. Or
this doesn't work now because something else
updated. So just go and fix it. There is usually
something on the Arch Linux web page that might
explain why this is not working. But... You know,
the moment passes and I'm no longer in the mood
to record that video because I have now been
fixing my computer for a while. And that kind
of irritated me. And one of the biggest issues
that I had is when Kdenlive stopped working.
And it stopped working because Arch updated SDL
library to SDL3. And the built -in backwards
compatibility didn't work. in the beginning and
Arch of course updated to SDL3 day one because
why not and that kind of was one one drop too
much in my cup and I went back to Debian and
then I after that I mostly test new stuff on
my laptops because I have like two or three laptops
that I can use they are older laptops so not
very good for daily driving but they're pretty
good for demoing stuff and I can just reinstall
whatever I want on them all the time I can just
plug them in via HDMI input and that's kind of
how it works for me now as i said the one without
the wallpaper i have a question yeah question
for you how you do gaming right do you do gaming
in debian and you do you do streaming as well
do you have any issues with those in debian gaming
and streaming at the same time uh except for
what dt and i uh already touched briefly that
sometimes we get audio drops And I suspect that's
not a distro problem. No, it's not. It's Pipewire.
I am also very on to Pipewire on this issue.
I've got post -audio and Pipewire. I think I've
got both. Yeah, they can work. This gets installed,
doesn't it? I'm a destructor. But other than
this issue with the audio, I don't have any other
issues. Okay. Awesome. Kdenlive, by the way,
for those of you on Arch that are using Kdenlive,
keep the app image of Kdenlive handy because
Kdenlive updates all the time. And seriously,
every other update of Kdenlive breaks. So have
the older one on an app image. So always keep
an app image so you can. So if you have the binary
installed, you can run that. But if you have
the app image, you can run that version. I always
keep two or three versions. It's on the website.
Just download it like you would download it on
Windows. And it's officially maintained by Kdenlive.
They build their own app image. That's their
official package, I guess. The one in the package
manager is very old in Debian, and Ubuntu is.
Okay, awesome. I've been short the one on Debian,
and Ubuntu is very old, very old. One thing I
wanted to answer, Andrea, I never used AUR. Neither
have I, because I've never used Dart. I've heard
about it, but I've never used Dart, so you don't
get AUR on Debian, do you? But as far as the
malware, I mean, they've also found malware.
In Flathub, they found malware in Snapcraft.
I don't use Snaps and Flatpak, just as well I
don't use them. It's in all software. Hold on,
Switch to Linux said in one of his videos, he
said that Snaps and the risk of malware in Snaps
and Flatpak. Even your Debian packages have risk
of malware if somebody wanted to maliciously...
From the package manager from Debian, you mean?
Yep. Really? Well, Flatback's a package manager.
Somebody had to put it in their package manager
too, right? There's also malware in NPM. NPM
is available in Debian. What's NPM? What is that?
Another package manager. I've never heard of
NPM. What is NPM? I've never heard of that one.
It's for JavaScript. It's a node package manager
for JavaScript projects. Do they use JavaScript
much these days? I don't think they do, not even
on Windows. Andrea, that is mainly used by people
that... create programs by developers web apps
electron apps things like that yeah do you trust
that you are dt with your soul like how um yeah
yeah but but i don't install a lot like i install
like brave is in the aur it's not in the official
repos but it's it's one of the most popular packages
in the repos people are watching it uh but like
smaller programs that are a little weird I can
actually go read the package build, and I do.
I maintain my own Arch packages. I know how to
read a package build. But I can see where it's
pulling the source because it's building the
package. I can go, oh, it's getting it from this
GitHub repo. I can go look at everything it's
going to do. It's a 20 -line script. I can. I
know some people can't. I know some people, they
don't have that ability, and I get that. But
just know a lot of people on Arch do. And they
pay attention to the package builds. So, you
know, that's why you were talking about there
was malware found in the AUR. Well, the great
thing is it was found. The reason it was found
is because people were watching those package
builds. People were looking at it. That's because
I'll let anybody like users upload to their repositories.
I mean, they let me, so you're right. They will
let anybody into the AUR. They let me do it too.
Don't download my Bitcoin miner. So pretty much.
Or do. Just be careful. So pretty much what you're
saying, DT, is just be careful with what you
install and trust it, right? Well, if you go
to the AUR, just like this package right here,
vinyl, whatever. Yeah, I just click it randomly,
yeah. Yeah, I mean, you could go and read the
package build and you can see where it's pulling
the source for the package. That's a graphical
package manager or, isn't it? It's graphical,
isn't it? Like synaptic. No, it's command line.
It's like a one line thing you put in the terminal.
No graphical package manager, not even the or.
No, dear. But all this package build is, it's
a recipe. This package build is a recipe for
how to build the package. You know what would
be a good spin of Arch for you would be the O
-word, actually. I think she might like the O
-word. Oh, let's talk about the O -word. Let's
talk about that. Let's talk about that. I want
to hear your guys' thoughts on... Let me get
into that. Let me get my side of the argument
first, but let's hear what he... Let's do this.
Let's iterate on the call stack. So he's showing
us an AUR package. He's going to audit this live.
Yeah, yeah. Go with that. What are you going
to show us? The only thing that I wanted to say
is that I tried reading package build. It's fine.
You can read package build for one package. But
then the problem is that this has dependencies
on a lot of other AUR stuff. And are you going
to read all of them? And they tend to be recursive
sometimes. If you really want to trust your system.
There is a hack. Yeah. A lot of the really important
packages in the AUR have binary builds if you
enable the chaotic AUR. And that saves you a
lot of problems because they're auditing some
of that before they're building it. So the chaotic
AUR is highly recommended in my opinion. Throughout
my year and something with Arch exclusively,
I only used Arch base and extras plus FlatHub.
So that was a strange combo because I would pull
from FlatHub what the other Arch users would
pull from AUR. And my distribution kind of ended
up like a FlatHub -based distribution after I
pulled from FlatHub stuff that broke. In Arch,
whether temporarily or not. The guys in the chat
are talking about, yeah, Manjaro built a lot
of AUR packages, so they're binary. Yeah, same
thing with Cache. So you don't have to use the
AUR as much on a lot of those distros because
they're maintaining their own builds of a lot
of that stuff. Don't they have GNOME Software
Center on Arch and Plasma Discover? Don't they
have that on Arch? They did have that, didn't
they? You can have a Plasma Discoverer, but it's
not recommended to... They only do flat packs
and snaps, not arch packages. That's what somebody
said. I actually think Discoverer can handle
Pac -Man, but it's not recommended. Yeah, I think
they only recommend you using the flat packs
on that. Yeah. They have some kind of... Now,
Tony's turn. And snaps. Now, Tony's turn. And
snaps on arch, don't they? I think they do. If
you want them. Time, time, time. Now, we're moving
on to Tony, and he's going to share with us...
why he prefers Arch and what he thinks about
Debian. Go, Tony. Yeah, I think I said it earlier.
In terms of legacy distros, Arch is definitely
the best one, I think. And Debian, for me, as
far as personal preference goes, I'm not going
to speak for anybody's... I'm not going to tell
anybody not to use Debian because this is just
personal preference. But when I switched back
to Debian from Gentoo, I felt like it was just
Gentoo. Because I needed to compile everything
from source. So I actually have a conspiracy
theory that Debian is just Gen 2 with a GUI installer.
Because I'm sitting here saying, okay, let me
build my Hugo site. Oh no, my Hugo version is
40 versions behind because it's on 111 .3, not
152 .2, which is what I'm used to. So I'm like,
okay, no problem. Let me just build that from
source. I got to use Go to build Hugo. Go is
on version 1 .19, not... 1 .25 .4 so i can't
actually get go so i've got to compile go from
source to compile hugo from source to load my
to like start developing my website and then
i'm like okay let me open up neo of him and i'm
on version seven i'm like okay that's six years
old so let me compile that from source no problem
i'm basically on gen 2 but i'm just my neo fetch
says debian right so it's like kind of like what's
the point you see what i'm saying for me personally
but for people that are Most people use their
computers nowadays. Let's just admit this. They
use it as a bootloader for whatever operating
system, as a bootloader for a browser. So they
just load up a computer and open their email,
they check their taxes, whatever. And so Debian's
perfect for that. I mean, Debian's perfect for
kind of what you guys were saying. You just put
it on a machine, you never have to worry about
updating it, whatever. But we all talked about
this. Basically, if you want anything that's
kind of like... not seven years old arch is is
going to be for me because even pac -man has
a lot of stuff built into it not not even the
aur is you don't even have to touch the aur so
it's like for me i i just like arch for getting
things done it's like super quick spin up an
arch system you got like semi -late versions
or if not the latest versions of like all the
development stuff that i use and it's just good
to go so i mean again that's for legacy distros
i mean nixos really is end game of linux which
we'll get into later if we want to go down that
route but um no i mean i definitely think arch
is better for sure i will say that i've definitely
run into the dependency hill issue uh so many
times on debian anytime you have to start building
from source on debian you are going to eventually
run into dependency hill and have to reinstall
where on arch obviously you don't run into that
problem or you could but it's much less likely
I'm not even catching. What did you mean by dependency,
Hal? Well, when you're building packages from
source on Debian, you're on newer versions that
require newer dependencies. So you have to build
those packages. And then eventually you're going
to end up in this weird loop where you have stuff
that you can no longer satisfy the dependencies.
You can't even update your system. Like app just
complains. Yeah, I understand now. I was trying
to get Hyperland working on Debian stable and
it requires quite a lot of stuff that you have
to deal with. And yeah, I can understand. Now,
that's an Omarchi. The O word, as Tony said.
Okay. That's an Omarchi. I haven't seen DHH lately
in a lot of videos. And I used to see him, I
don't know, in the last couple of months. I saw
him a lot in different videos, but I haven't
seen him lately. So who wants to go first? Omarchi.
It's a window manager. I wouldn't be able to
use that. You see my video about window managers.
The whole thing was a disaster. Couldn't use
any of them. Remember that one? I agree with
you, Andrea. I agree with you. We have some common
ground. I couldn't launch anything with a window
manager. Even when I installed the stuff they
recommended, nothing would work. This one, Andrea,
this one. It's a window manager, isn't it? Yeah.
It is. It's an install script. Tony says, I don't
know. A window manager? No, no, no. It's an Arch
install script. It just installs Arch. But it's
a window manager, isn't it? Yeah, it's a window
manager. Yeah, in the end it is, definitely.
It's actually, she's right. No, this is actually
like the incredible argument. It literally is.
Oh, Facebook window manager. Literally. One of
the many window managers they have. Okay, so
far, if I can, so far Omarchi was called distribution
of Linux, then it was called an Arch Remix, then
it was called a .files, and now it's a window
manager. Yeah, it's everything everywhere all
at once, like that movie. Yeah. Okay, DT, what
are your thoughts on Omarchi? Well, I haven't
tried to really run it on physical hardware.
I've looked at it in VMs, and it seems like it's
well put together as far as, You know, a lot
of distributions I take a look at, especially
smaller distributions or newer distributions,
because this thing hasn't been around that long.
Usually they don't look that good, and usually
they have a lot more issues than what this has.
So I will say that he's done a good job putting
together his distribution, if you want to call
it a distribution. I have no problem calling
it a distribution because, I mean, yeah, is it
just an install script for Arch? Well, yeah,
so is Cache. So is Manjaro. Is it just dot files?
Well, yeah. So is Cache. So is Manjaro. So is
Garuda. I mean, that's what a distribution is.
So I don't think a lot of people really have
thought about what a Linux distribution is. It's
just literally the word distribution is distributing
this ISO. Yeah, I have no thoughts beyond that.
Like, I haven't lived in it, so I can't really
tell you it's a great thing to live in. Yeah.
I have the need to make a public apology now,
because I made a video in which I tried to explain
what a distribution is, and I went a little bit
overboard with, like grammar Nazis do with the
grammar. That's how I went in with what distribution
word should mean. But in the end of the day,
it just doesn't matter. Technically speaking,
Debian... Is Linux from scratch? They just took
it a step further and built a package manager.
That's right. It's a distro. It's an LFS install
script. You're right. It's an LFS install script
with a package manager. An LFS is a Unix install
script. To an extent. Positive or negative opinion
on Amarchi, Darth? Well, we did already talk
about Omarchi, you and I, and it's so interesting
to me, Omarchi, that I never tried it. It's kind
of whatever. I think it's potentially good if
it can really bring... I mean, DHH said that
he doesn't quite care about the existing Linux
users because they already know what they want.
He kind of said that he cares about all of the
other people that are coming from Windows, which
is, by his own words, a lot more people. And
he is interested in those. But the hype kind
of skydived down in the past month or so. I don't
know if it's still working for him because the
initial hype was so huge. about Omarchi and it
was all over the place. Every YouTuber had to
cover it. It was organic, right? It felt really
organic. Yeah, now crickets. So I'm not sure
how well it... I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just
saying that I'm not sure if he will really manage
to... Admit to it? No, no, no. Utilize Omarchi
to bring in more users to our community. Is that
his stated goal? To bring people to Linux? See
he did say something like that. Yeah, I'm not
Well, you guys know a lot more about this than
me because I don't know like I'd never I don't
know the guy that created it Yeah, I watched
interviews with him about Omar G and he definitely
said that he is a I didn't know what the goal
is user What's the goal Tony I don't know. That's
why I asked. I'm like DT here. I don't actually
know what the stated goal of it is. I mean, it's
like every other ArchDistro, right? You throw
a desktop or a window manager on it. He's got
some custom apps he's created, some custom scripts.
It's like every other ArchDistro. My thoughts
on Archie is... I'm just resting on the couch.
Nice to go with couch. Lay back on it. It seems
comfortable. Awesome. Okay, so last time we talked
about Omarchi, I said a couple of good things
about it. It's velvet. It's velvet, right. That's
what I think about Omarchi. It's a velvet distro.
It's not real velvet. It's polyester velvet or
something like that. It's a polyester distro.
It's going to shrink if you put it in the dryer
kind of thing. I'm out. Tony is going to share
with us about his thoughts on Omarchi. Last time
we talked about this, I gave like a couple. sentences
of good praise of like the developer and this
uh distribution and then i start and then you
kind of i would say triggered me because you
had said something like um isn't it more secure
or whatever something you said made me go crazy
so then i just started like so it's my fault
just talking super negative about it and you
only clipped that part of it you said oh let's
And then you put a picture of Voldemort, you
know, and said he's no more evil or whatever.
And you made your clip video. And so everybody
in your comments was saying that I was an industry
plant against DHH or whatever. Like, I just hate
DHH. So therefore, I don't like the distribution.
So I looked into this guy. I actually don't even
know who he was until kind of what I said is
that he created Ruby on Rails. And I said good
things about him before the clip, before you
cut that part out of the clip. So I'm like, OK,
let me see what's going on here. And it turns
out he's one of those politicized guys. And that's
kind of why all those comments kind of went my
way. But my thing is kind of like DT said, it's
a polished distro. It's nice. But as I said in
that clip earlier, it's just like you're putting
on somebody's clothes, like you're going out
with somebody's wife. It's not your own dot files
like you just want to make your own. In my opinion,
just make make your own dot files. And I could
never use it because I would just I would literally
wipe out everything on it. because i have my
own custom scripts and programs and things that
i've built basically like he did yes so i would
just tear off why would i use his stuff i'm gonna
tear all his stuff down but the difference is
that dt you're not paying people in my this is
all speculated allegedly you're not paying people
to go advertise your dot files you know you're
not saying hey guys um please put on my dt os
please take a look at this like please you're
gonna love it you're not out there inorganically
saying put this out because I haven't updated
it in months. But that's the feeling I get when
I see like an Omarki ad. It's like, please put
on Omarki on your computer. I'm like, why do
you want me so idly? So I tried it. I liked it.
It's decent. You know, it's not bad, but I want
to change Omarki. So I've forked it in a way.
And by forked it, I really have just going from
scratch here and making Tonarki, if you will.
And it's been 6 ,000 lines of bash put down to
about 700 lines of C. And that's basically all
you need for this. So it's a deep -loaded Omarchi,
and it's going to be a little bit better for,
I think, a beginner to get into Linux. Because
as Andrea said, she's not a beginner, but even
she, as a long -time Linux user, can't deal with
the window manager aspect of things. Fairly long
time, really. Fairly long time, yeah. So if we're
trying to get new people into Linux, let's put
them on Cinnamon, or let's put them on something
that's a little bit more beginner -friendly.
You know what I'm saying? And Linux Mint, or
start with Linux Mint, Zorin OS, or Debian, but
with a full desktop environment, but not Arch
and not Fedora. Well, it'll be ToneArch -y, so
it won't be Arch, but yeah, it'll be its own
distro, but it'll be on Cinnamon, so it'll have,
you know, it'll be nice. So that's a long -term
project. It should be Ubuntu -based, it should
be. Yeah, it should be, but it's not going to
be, unfortunately, but it will be, that's a version
7 or maybe a version 8, but yeah. Linux is coming
from Windows to use Linux Mint or maybe Debian
with a full desktop environment or something
like this. In a VM on top of Arch, I agree. They
should be on Arch with a VM of Linux Mint to
test that, and I agree with you. I disagree.
I don't think a new user will. I was actually
going to tell Darth earlier. I was going to tell
Darth earlier. You're on the right track, Tony.
I think the ideal thing for content creators,
Darth, is to run Debian stable, and then if you
need the latest and greatest software to demo,
DistroBox for Arch. Yeah, I use DistroBox, yeah,
with Arch. That way you get your stability. You
can test out everything. Yeah, I use that. I
kind of prefer to show, especially when I test
new distributions or even BSDs, I like to show
people how it works on real hardware, not in
the virtual. But what you're saying about Wayland,
I bet if you tried to record the screen on real
hardware, it wouldn't work because the screen
recorders don't work on Wayland. I know because
I've tried it. They're getting better. OBS works
on this computer for sure, because I've recorded
in Wayland on this machine before. I can't. OBS,
it didn't work out for me. Okay, now, I have
a last question that I want to ask you guys.
Tony, you have to drop soon, right? About 10
minutes or so. In around 10 minutes. Okay. I
want to ask the last question, and it's regarding
Wayland or X11. What are your guys' thoughts?
Waeland, not everything works on Waeland. They
should keep X11, definitely. X11? Okay. Why,
Andrea? Incredibly based. Because everything
works on X11, and Linux has always been X11.
But when I tried Waeland, the biggest problem
I had is the screen recorders don't work. And
also the screensavers, you know, the lovely screensavers,
X screensavers, they don't work. X screensavers
brought out a Waeland version, 6 .12, but we're
never going to see it on Debian, because Debian
hasn't got 6 .12. They always have the older
versions and same with Ubuntu because they want
to keep Ubuntu and Debian like to play safe and
give us all the stable packages. So we're never
going to see 6 .12 on Debian or Ubuntu or Linux
Mint, not for years yet anyway. Yeah, also X
-Eyes doesn't work on Wayland. No. X -Clock.
6 -12, you know, the X -Wallpaper has been bought
out for Wayland. The developer has. He bought
out 6 -12 for Wayland, but we haven't got it
in Debian. We haven't got it. Okay. Is that a
Debian issue or a Wayland issue? We haven't got
it. Not even on Debian SID, they haven't got
it. Is that a Debian issue or a Wayland issue?
No. 6 .12 XScreenSaver works on Waven. Developers
updated it for Waven, but Debian hasn't got it.
Ubuntu hasn't got it. Linux Mint hasn't got it.
NAMNIP got it on Debian. SID, for some reason...
No, they didn't make it in the last release.
Latest one is 6 .09, the X version of XScreenSaver
that Debian and Ubuntu's got, you know. So 2030,
we'll have Weyland on Debian. 2030. We never
have Weyland on anywhere. So my next tutorial
will be how to use Weyland on Debian. I hope
you never have it. I hope so. If anything should
go, Weyland should keep X11. Let's move on to
DT. DT's thoughts on Weyland versus X11. The
timer is back. The timer is back. So go DT. So
on technical basis, I really don't care. I'm
on X11 because the window managers that I like
to use are X11 window managers. I'm more worried
about my workflow than the display server. They
don't work right now. Qtel has a Wayland version.
I can't quite get the thing to work. Once it's
ready. I'll already be on Qtol, so I'll just
log into the Qtol session rather than the X11
session. So I'll be there eventually, but right
now I'm on X11. But Hyperland's not my favorite
thing to use, and that's pretty much it for window
managers on Wayland. So if I'm not going to be
a Hyperland user, I'm not going to be on Wayland
because I'm not going to switch to, again, something
that's not my workflow just to say I'm on Wayland,
which is just a dang display server. I mean,
what's it doing for me? It's showing me my monitors
and windows just like X11. So, yeah, I'm fine
until Wayland's ready or until some of these
window managers I like to use finally have that
Wayland support. Okay, so X11 for you then? Yeah,
well, for now. Like I said, I really don't care.
If Wayland worked in QTAL for me, yeah, I'd be
there. Okay, what about you, Darth? Well... My
setup here is I have a 42 inch screen in front
of me. That's my main monitor, which is 4K. Another
one here is, I think, 21 or 22 inches, but it's
turned vertically because I use that one for
monitoring stuff. I just use the main one for
whatever I work on. And the one on the side is
just for chat and for OBS and stuff like that.
And I turn it vertically so that it doesn't take
too much space on my desk. And it works quite
well for me. And the reason why I'm on Wayland
is because it helps me with the different DPI
because Katie has well implemented the DPI scaling.
on the different uh you know resolutions and
dpis of the monitor so you can i can put i think
125 zoom on this one and on on the other one
150 and make when i move windows that they feel
like they are the same size when they move between
monitors right if i would have two same monitors
i would not really care about wayland This is
the only feature that I really care about, to
be honest. And it's just because of my screens
here. That's pretty much it. So, yeah. I don't
care. If the community could invest a little
bit effort. And I have a vague idea on how this
could be done on X11. I think the window managers
or KD or GNOME or Cinnamon would need to invest
a little bit into toolkit development. I think
it could be done on X11 as well because the Xorg
cannot handle this. It would be the DPI scaling
thing. It would need to be handled by the thing
that controls Windows. you know so so that's
usually time's up time's up now tony's turn go
tony uh it's gonna be kind of what dt said is
like if i'm you if i want to use hyperland i'll
use wayland if i want to use you know xmonad
i'll use x11 i definitely demonstrate like a
lot of window managers for tutorials and stuff
like that so um i'm open to both protocols Uh,
but I actually have been trying to like build
a small compositor in Wayland and it's a lot
more complicated than building like an X 11 window
manager because way harder. Yeah, exactly. You
have to do everything yourself. So I do have
a lot of respect for, you know, these, these
developers, um, like Vax, right? The hyperline
guy. And then he alters, uh, he made Neary and
then mango, uh, was made by a guy named dream.
And these guys, and I'm missing names and stuff,
but these guys, I got a lot of respect for it.
Cause these, this is really hard stuff to do.
You know, I mean, I, I don't know. Anybody can
create an X11 window manager. It's really not
complicated. But it takes some serious effort
to create a Wayland compositor. Yeah, it's really
hard. And most people just don't have that capacity.
Yeah, so there's WLRoots and there's Smithy and
stuff that you can kind of use to save you a
lot of boilerplate and stuff. But you get into
this is opinionated and this, that, and the other.
Well, then they all end up being just forks of
the same thing, too. You don't have as much variety.
So that's why Xorg, it takes care of all that
for you, basically. And you get Xclip, Xwallpaper,
Xsetroot, Xeverything, you know. So I don't know.
I like X11 a lot better because I've been using
it for like 20 years or whatever. But, you know,
eventually if Wayland takes over, like, I have
no problem adapting to that. And, yeah, no issues
on my end on that. All right. The per monitor
DPI thing is really the biggest thing they've
got going right now for them, though. OK, awesome.
So, guys, we've been here for almost two hours.
We're going to end the stream here. Any final
words, Andrea? You're going to say the final
words of the stream. But before that, I just
want to thank each one of you. Andrea, thanks
for being here. DT is like the fourth time. Yeah,
DT is like the fourth time that we've been here.
Appreciate it. All right, Tony. Thank you, guys.
So, Andrea, just share with us the final words,
and we're done with the stream. Well, new users
who are coming from Windows, it's best to start
with Linux Mint. You can also start with Debian
if you install a full desktop environment. Linux
Mint is the best one to start with, or even Ubuntu,
although Ubuntu has Snaps. But, I mean, new users
coming from Windows will want a lot of extra
software, and Snaps fill the gap when, you know,
they don't have a lot. They don't have every
dev package, but most of the software is available
in Snap. So when you say Ubuntu, not the GNOME
desktop environment. One or the other Ubuntu
are spins like Cinnamon, Mate, or KDE, but not
the GNOME desktop environment because it's too
much like Windows 8. So Cinnamon, Mate, or KDE,
Xfce, or LXDE. Yeah, they have that on Debian.
And then it's Qt, but not GNOME because it's
not very Windows -like, is it? Okay, awesome.
Thanks, Andrea. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you
next time. Bye. Bye.