Now, Tony, you sound pretty good. That's because
you have the same microphone as your dad, right?
DistroTube. My uncle, yeah. Your uncle, yeah,
sorry. He's not my dad. He's not your dad? Who's
your dad? The HH? Richard Stallman, I guess.
I don't know. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. I'm
going to just change it to slow and painful.
And save that, and now I'm already there. I don't
need to... be that like i'm i don't you know
what i'm saying uh -huh okay it's a it's okay
and the reason i wish it was proprietary because
then i can hate on it more you know what i'm
saying i almost said it's proprietary it's it's
it's it's it's it's just garbage it's not proprietary
garbage it's just garbage it's just garbage there
it is it's a garbage wrapper for art for an arch
install that's all it is it's a glorified arch
install which takes For me, it takes four minutes
for anybody who wants to install Arch with a
script. They can already do that. If you want
to watch my video, you can. It'll take you 10
minutes to install Arch. And then you install
it installs like 100 programs. And then it has
these defaults that are not saying there's somebody
else's. It's like going out with somebody else's
wife. Like, what are you doing? So you got all
this stuff on top of already something that's.
is there's no dude it's just to me there's no
point honestly i can't in good faith recommend
it to anybody like voldemort's os or whatever
like i don't know what's gonna happen when when
blaze creates his omar video or when henry misc
creates his omar video what's gonna happen there
is the relationship over tony um no man i think
because you guys are awesome you guys are great
people so i think what will happen is You won't
do that to me, right? So anyway, Link, you were
about to say, is this going to become? Yeah.
Well, what is this going to become right now?
Is it going to become, you guys watched the old
video, the girls won. So is it going to become
like two Knicks, two Knicks aficionados? One,
one Michael, is he sure or what? If you're listening
to this as a podcast, remember that it was originally
recorded as a video. If you're not following
along, you can go to my YouTube channel. My username
is Linkarzu. And if you want to support me to
keep this podcast going, you can donate in Ko
-fi. I'm going to leave a link in the description.
All right. So let's get started with this chapter
then. I do want to ask you guys something real
quick. I know we're kind of just ad hoc here,
but do you ever feel like we over -engineer things
like so much with our workflows that like...
It's like when you see somebody like that guy,
Rene, something, the kernel developer, and he's
using just default Tmux, default VI, and he's
just writing kernel code and he's like a boss.
And then it's me and you, you've got like, you
guys spent hours and hours on your setup. And
it's like, I'm writing like PHP code for some
web app, you know, or whatever. Yeah, we can
start with that. Let's start. And if Sylvan joins,
it's good, you know, but we can start. Should
we make a Triforce or we just keep it like this?
no like a set yeah we can continue i'm just going
to you know edit some parts of course i'll cut
the beginning of it you know but we can no i
meant like on the screen should we put like a
triforce image or should we put like an image
of mimothy crying or something like that until
he gets here yeah let me do that i'm gonna do
that well in the meantime hold on let me just
do that and then we can start okay hold on yeah
in the meantime you guys talk about something
I'm still curious about the German document.
I want to figure out what I can learn for some
German history, if you've got any pointers. I'm
the worst person to talk to when it comes to
these kind of things. Are you a normie with this?
Yeah, definitely. I am. But I have some thoughts
about what you just mentioned regarding using
vanilla VI instead of all these plugins and workflow
engineering and setting everything up. I feel
like there's definitely a point where you can
over -engineer things and spend... Basically,
your workflow itself becomes the source of inefficiency
in your life that needs to be optimized. But
the thing is, nobody can just go ahead and use
vanilla VI efficiently, out of the box. You would
have to spend loads of time... reading the documentation
watching tutorials or whatever to be effective
at it and i don't know if that is more efficient
or if you spend or if you would spend less time
doing that than simply researching how to configure
an lsp and oh yeah in in neovim and just work
with that you know 100 i just think like sometimes
when i'm on servers and there's not that many
files like i don't need anything i just vi the
five it's like a 20 line file i just vi well
i'm not going to literally use vi but like I
could Vim the file and it's pretty chill, you
know? And I see this guy, Renee, literally doing
kernel development. I don't know if it's actually
VI, but it looks like so, you know what I'm saying?
It looks like one of those like default Vims
and he just doesn't care about this stuff. And
I'm like, dude, it's like, there's a point of
diminishing returns though. When you spend like,
I feel like once you get to a certain point with
your NeoVim config, like you start and everything
you add after that is like, you're shaving off
like maybe 10 seconds here maybe you know per
year but like when you first start getting like
go to definition probably saved me like literally
hours a week just yeah having that one bind so
i don't know yeah it's like after you get all
the low -hanging fruit there's definitely some
diminishing returns i feel like for sure i would
be curious like this guy that you mentioned i
don't know him but do you know if he ever spent
a lot of time previously configuring new women
all this stuff and all this workflow perfection
stuff and then kind of had a full circle moment
and went back to just removing all that bloat
and just sticking to vanilla vi or he never even
tried to do that in the first place i don't know
i i don't know for sure i i've had a guess uh
he probably just has always used the same tools
like he's probably on debian stable he's probably
just an old guy you know right and and just uses
whatever it is you know what i'm saying But he
has a YouTube channel, so I'm pretty sure it's
all public and it's all figureoutable. Let's
see, kernel development. I think I saw a video
of him today. Oh, someone in the comments recommended
or told me you should interview Rene something.
What is his name, Tony? That's him. That's him.
Rene Rabat. I don't know how to pronounce it.
Yeah. Actually, he might not be French, by the
way. He might be up your alley, Henrik. Oh, he's
from Berlin. Germany. So I don't know how close
that is to where you're from. I'm in Berlin quite
frequently. I don't live there, but the company
I work for is based in Berlin, so I sometimes
travel there. That's the capital of Germany,
right? Or no? Yeah, it is. That's cool. I knew
that. Let me look at some of his stuff here.
Yeah, dude, look at this stuff. Come on. I'll
just send a screenshot to the Discord. I don't
know how, I mean, I guess I could send it to
the chat here. Or you want me to share your screen?
No, because I'm on my personal thing. Not on
the virtual machine. Let me do toggle the chat.
If I paste it in the chat, does it go? No, it
doesn't go. I don't want to send it to the Discord.
Just don't share it. You know what I mean? But
yeah. Look at him, dude. Look at this guy. I
have the perfect picture of Timothy. Hold on.
Oh man, this is good. I have to save it. Doesn't
it have a color scheme? That might be him typing
like a less or something. I don't even know what
he's doing there. Is he using Comic Sans as a
font? Unironically. That's crazy. Comic Sans
and no color scheme. It might be. Yeah, I think
it might be Comic Sans. It also could be Monaco.
But at that point, like why torture yourself?
I mean, it's so easy to just install a color
scheme and it just makes life so much better.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Just so much more
readable. and it takes like five seconds to do
was it you that mentioned that like you can parse
things better when you see like the colors or
the syntax or was that because i feel like i've
watched you say that in a video once where like
you can it's easier for you to but i think it
might have been in your sequel video or something
like that where there's no syntax highlighting
so you turn that on or something i don't remember
but it i would definitely sign that if that statement
i co -sign it okay and you guys see them at the
there okay We have him there. Yeah, perfect.
Yeah, at least it doesn't feel like we're alone.
And if he ever joins, which I don't think he
will, we will be able to listen to him. Yep,
yep, yep, yep, yep. Just going to send him a
message, I think. Where did you find that picture?
Did you just change it up from a video? Which
one? Bimathys? Yeah. Yeah, I had... One on a
previous thumbnail. So I exported it. And then
I told AI to make him crying. It did it. Crazy.
Okay. So, hey, guys. How's it going? Good, man.
How are you? I'm doing good as well. We have
Tony in the house. We have Henry Misk as well.
We don't know if Bimuthi is going to join. We're
waiting on him. So we'll see if he joins or not.
What are we going to be covering today or what
are we going to be talking about today? So let
me switch to my screen so we can take a look
at that right now. There's just a few topics
that I want to go over, okay? Single or multiple
monitors, tiles as well in window managers or
a single application on the screen. What are
your thoughts on widescreen monitors, rolling
window managers like Neary? Because I've seen
that in the Linux community a lot. So I have
my doubts. I have my questions about it. Linux
versus Mac as well. And thoughts on Omarchi and
DHH. And Raycast as well for the macOS users.
Okay. And if you guys want to talk about something,
just interrupt me. Yep. And we can talk about
it. Yeah, yeah. So just for people that don't
know you guys, you mind just sharing a little
bit about you, who you are? Let's start with
Tony. Yeah, man, I just make Linux tutorials
at YouTube. Tony Dash, by the way, says pretty
much I'm into Linux, free and open source software.
And yeah, I just like to share that kind of stuff.
So if you're interested in like Gen 2, Arch,
NixOS, that kind of stuff, NeoVim, whatever,
just check out the channel. And it's just I don't
really put opinions in here. It's just kind of
boring, dense, just like straightforward tutorial
stuff. So, yeah, that's where I'm at. Okay. So
you have almost 10 ,000 subscribers, Tony. You
started like what? I would say that's a misnomer,
but my first video was in maybe February or January
this year. Damn, that's fast. That's fast, man.
So yeah, some content. If there's someone out
there, I think that all my subs are already subbed
to you. But if there's someone out there that
is not yet, just go and join Tony. Now, what
about you, Hendrik? Yes. Hey, everyone. my name
is henry i run a youtube channel called henry
misc and i share content around workflow engineering
so everything that makes the life of an engineer
a bit smoother i share tips around vim and neo
vim tmux that kind of stuff um recently i tried
a bunch of different topics as well like how
to or basically why i switched to a split keyboard
instead of a normal keyboard and what are kind
of the pros and cons of that and from time to
time i also share some other ideas around how
to work a bit more efficiently or ergonomically
as a software engineer okay i noticed that you
have a new camera now you're on an iphone camera
right yeah does it look better it looks better
better now it's just you tony When are you switching
to iPhone and Mac OS? If they make it free and
open source, I would consider switching over.
That'd be nice. I should be kind of cool. Yeah.
Now, let me just set a goal here. Hold on. Let's
see if this works. I want to add something, too.
While you're setting that goal, I want to add
something real quick. Because Henry Misk, I remember
when I saw a lot of his videos. it's similar
channel is mine in some small way. We have a
Venn diagram of overlap. And then I saw you had
interviewed him. So we kind of all are related
in some small way here, I think. And it's interesting
because he pointed out that he shifted gears
a little bit. And recently he had made like a
carpal tunnel kind of RSI video, like what he
does for that. And I do some of that stuff too.
And like, I just never talk about it. So I wonder
how much of us out there do a lot of the same
stuff that we just never talk about because we're
always focused on like workflow engineering or
like Linux or whatever, you know? yeah share
your workflow in a video hold on hold on tony
let me just share this my bad yeah i'm interrupting
you with the gold check um we're gonna be reading
super chat so if you guys have any questions
or anything just uh send them there and uh we'll
go over them okay so okay you guys want to start
with the first topic yeah man let's jump into
it i'm excited okay okay let's do it now monitors
that's uh thing that i want to discuss first
wants to go and explain and share their thoughts
is it one monitor multiple monitors like what's
the what's the deal here wants to go i can go
first here i think for me one monitor is perfect
for everything except for youtube because when
i do youtube stuff i have to be looking at two
monitors usually if not three like it's kind
of crazy but i've never needed more than one
monitor until i made the youtube channel and
i'm kind of curious your guys's thoughts on this
because um yeah for my daily like workflow stuff
i can do everything i need on one monitor but
when it comes to editing videos or just recording
stuff and making sure that like i have everything
like a visible cue that i'm actually recording
that's a big deal for me because i record full
screen on like a different monitor and stuff
like that and like editing the video like having
a visual indicator of the video on a second monitor
while editing it you know And then I don't know
when I do the live streams, like having a chat
available on the third monitor so I can see the
chat and then see my screen and then, you know,
whatever. So I don't know. What do you guys think
about kind of, I guess, kick it over to you,
Henry. Like, what are your thoughts on like the
one monitor lifestyle? And then if not, you know,
as a YouTuber. If you weren't if you weren't
doing YouTube, right, just your regular day job,
no video editing, no streaming, nothing. would
you use two monitors or one one for sure one
because anything extra is just a distraction
i think it's like i'm always in vim i use one
buffer i don't use like any kind of a like a
split v splits or anything like that so why why
i just extend that to everything i have one monitor
so if i need to alt tab or whatever which i never
do but yeah if i need to go to window three i'll
go to window three you know what i mean okay
okay and what about you hendrick so i do have
a widescreen monitor i try different setups previously
as well i used to have two monitors as well but
there always something was missing because sometimes
i i like having a white uh screen to have more
screen real estate when i need to see something
white you know i'm i'm a machine learning engineer
and i work a lot with data and sometimes i just
need to see the result of a query that has a
lot of columns for example and then it is helpful
to see a lot of different or as much of the table
that as i can see otherwise i need to horizontal
squall quite quite a bit but in general i'm also
with tony like most of the time i don't even
need most of my screen like right now for example
i have one window centered on my white screen
and left and right i literally have like 10 20
of the screen just blank space and that is not
even used and yeah so unless I'm kind of looking
at documentation while I'm typing on the other
side, I feel one screen works perfectly for me.
And now recently I've started doing YouTube and
video editing, and there it really helps to have
a wider screen. But otherwise, a normal scale
screen would usually work 99 % of the time for
me. OK, because I have seen the setups. Yeah,
I have seen the setups for people that have like
a vertical monitor on the side and they have
a monitor above and they and they work on the
widescreen and they say that it's super efficient.
You know, that's the peak of productivity. And
I'm like, damn, man, because previously I used
to work in a 52 inch TV, right? Like a huge TV.
It was a 4K TV. That was my monitor. And it had,
you know, I had a lot of real estate. So I could
put my Slack on the top right corner, my terminal
on the top left. On the bottom left, I had my
browser, my Obsidian. And then I had to switch
to another desktop, right? And there I had the
email. And then I had, you know, and I thought
it was pretty effective. And I was like, damn,
this is the best thing that I could have ever
done. A huge TV. I get a lot of space. But I
noticed that I was searching for stuff a lot,
you know, because I was like, OK, so where's
my email? And I would go to the desk to click
on my email. And if I needed to go to Slack,
I would go to the desk one and go to Slack. Right.
Did you say click on? Do you say click? Well,
yeah. Did you click on your email? Click on the
on the app, right? So that's that's the way that
I used to do it in the past and I used my My
mouse a lot and I used my eyes and I had to see
okay. So where's the app? Where's this other
one? And it was it was exhausting man, cuz yeah,
I had to be like this and then obsidian is right
there Okay, so click on it or switch to it. However,
start typing then go to the To the browser and
it was somewhere else until i watched the video
by the primogen where he shared his workflow
and that's when it all changed you know and i
was like what is his workflow he uses a single
monitor he had made a video called uh developer
workflow for 2021 or something like that's old
tech and he uh he had i3 as a window manager
tmux as a like a terminal multiplexer and uh
neo vim yeah there it is literally And if you
see, look below, look at the one below. His one
is for 2021 and mine is for 2029. So if you guys
want to see a better workflow, I know it's got
less views, but check it out. It's going to be
more future -proof. Look at that. Yeah, but that
made me look at things completely differently.
And I was like, okay, so let me try to use my
monitor. my big tv i used it like in a quarter
of the screen right so this was the entire tv
i was just in just a quarter of it so see if
i could make it work right and um that's what
i've been doing ever since you don't need to
monitor us i think it's just bloat unless unless
you do video editing you know or i would say
that's the only that's the only case for me Do
you still have that big TV? Are you still like
having like one small section of it and then
the rest of it is just like Mr. Beast or something
like that 24 -7? No, I switched to a 32 -inch
monitor, right? So that's what I'm using. 32
-inch? Yeah, I think it's 32 -inch monitor. So
it's just a regular monitor that I use right
now. But it wasn't the case, you know, was the
TV for a long time. So that brings me to the
other. point that I wanted to touch on, right?
Monitor size. Because I see that widescreen TVs
or no, widescreen monitors are really popular,
right? Instead of 16 by 9. What are your guys'
thoughts on that? You want to go around the horn
in the same direction? Yep. Well, let me ask
you, I guess, let me kick it back to you with
a question, actually, because this might actually
just debunk the whole question. Could you gun
to your head, pull out your laptop, I guess,
let's assume that you don't have to use Windows,
right? Where's your for your day job? Let's say
you had like had to go to Starbucks or something
like that because your Internet went out. Could
you theoretically get your job done like decently
fast with a laptop? Exactly. 100%. Yep. So I
think does size matter for monitors? I say no.
Honestly, I think there's like a little minimum
barrier of entry, maybe like certain size so
you can actually see it. But I think for the
for the most part is I'm on a laptop. If as long
as it's decently sized screen and everything
and I can if it's 1920 by 1080 at least and I
think I'm fine. And what about wide ones? Would
you use or do you think that a wide monitor is
better? I think a wide monitor is just two monitors,
I would say. If it's an ultra -wide, that would
just be two monitors. An ultra -wide, yep. So
I don't know. I mean, if Henry uses an ultra
-wide, I'm curious if it's an ultra -wide or
a regular wide monitor. But I don't know if it
seems like that would just be two monitors, right?
Not really. It's smaller. It's like one monitor
and then 33 % extra. kind of that's how it's
advertised but honestly i'm not a huge fan of
it it's one of the purchases that i regret because
like when i'm in germany i kind of have a small
setup at my mom's place so i can keep working
there and there i only have a regular size monitor
and it works perfectly fine like i'm not less
efficient because i only have one available and
as i said like just for video editing definitely
wider is better but most of the time i anyway
center my window on the screen and that's also
why i'm not a huge fan of tiling window managers
because they try to maximize the screen usage
and on a wide monitor that can be quite counterproductive
if suddenly like you have a window on the left
and the other one on the right because then you
need to look as you mentioned link like on a
big screen you need to look to the left to the
right and like there's a lot of head movement
going on just to capture or just to see everything
that's on your screen while if you're just able
to switch efficiently between apps i feel you
don't need a lot of screen real estate it's just
there's a lot of friction especially on mac os
that's i think where linux is much better but
on mac the default window switching is kind of
terrible like this you know when you have to
with the trackpad use the motions and then you
get this view where you get all your windows
and i need to click on the window where you want
to go and That's just terrible. But if you don't
have that friction and you can just press a button
and go where you want to go, then there's no
need to see everything at once because there's
not the friction of switching between the apps
in the first place. That's how I kind of feel
about it. Okay. There is a scenario in which
I think that white monitors are useful. And it's
just if you play games, that's it. I don't think
there's any other reason to use white. Like ultra
-wide monitors. And I'm not even sure if playing
games is a decent reason. I don't play games,
so I have no idea. But I think it's nice. I have
no idea. I will say this. You go ahead, actually.
No, no, go. Go, Tony. I will say this. As far
as games go, when I played Counter -Strike back
in the day, we always set our resolution down
to 1280x720 or whatever because it was easier
to see people's heads. But we used smaller monitors
anyway. so i don't know if that's still a thing
i know a lot of pros still i don't know maybe
that anymore because i'm just kind of old but
yeah i don't know do you guys even play games
though or yeah not anymore workflow engineering
man you have no time for that but anyway back
to you what were you about to say before i interrupted
you um what you said about the laptop screen
right because i want to be as effective on my
monitor you know the 16 by 9 external monitor
that i have And also on my laptop screen, because
it happened to me when I remember right now,
I remember exactly how it felt when I used my
4K TV, right? I had a workflow on the TV, you
know, because I had organized my apps in certain
sections of the screen. But then when I needed
to grab the laptop and go and work outside, it
was a nightmare, man, because the screen is small.
So I had to. I can figure out a way to organize
the apps on the screen. It was painful. I hated
it. So ever since I moved away to the one monitor
workflow and one application on the screen at
a time, I never worry about that anymore at all.
One buffer? One buffer on any of them? Yeah,
one thing on the screen at a time, right? So
if I'm on the laptop, It's going to be the exact
same thing compared to if I'm on the external
monitor, right? My workflow doesn't change and
I can work on the laptop as effectively as if
I was on the external monitor. Yeah. Do you use
Spaces on Mac? I use the Spaces, but let me show
you. It's easier because whenever you guys want
to share something or show something, just let
me know. We can look at it there, okay? So this
is my space in which I have my terminal, and
that's it, right? You can see it, correct? So
this one is configured in BSP mode, right? So
if I open other instances of the terminal here,
they open in this space, in, you know, sections
like this, right? But this is the only one, right?
If I move to... This one, for example, if I went
to my browser, for example, and if I switch to
other app, what do I have here? YouTube, right?
That is, you know, all of those are in a specific
space, in a single space. All of these that you
see are in stack mode, one behind the other in
this same desktop one, right? So all of the stack
stuff is here. And the ones that are in split
mode. are in other spaces like chat if i switch
to this desktop 5 chat is also configured in
bsp right because i need to see all of them at
once and it makes sense for me to use bsp in
this specific scenario as well you know but most
of the times i'm here you know in this space
right that is in stack mode and uh just one one
at a time what about you guys Yeah, I use one.
I can show in a second here. Let me switch to
a different VM, actually. Okay, let me know.
I use one. Hang on. I'm like you pretty much
with one. You said BSP. There's a window manager
called BSPWM, so I thought you were talking about
that, but I'm sure it's probably the same naming
convention. You can put my screen on if you want.
But yeah, I use one. thing per screen like you
said so like even if two terminals i don't even
like doing that like um i'm not even a huge fan
of that so i'll just use tmux yeah you know like
we all do i don't like doing that as well yep
but then like also like for the browser like
i always have a browser open here you know whatever
and then like uh yeah i'm not gonna like that
but then uh you know we got like whatever and
then i'll even like full screen it because i
think the bar to an extent might be bloat i don't
actually know i don't even need the bar you know
what i mean the bar which one at the top of the
screen yeah like it says like uh here let me
peak your firefox because i think there's some
sensitive stuff on there but um like the bar
is like kind of below like i don't need to know
i'm on workspace three i just know where that
that's always firefox right and then like um
on number two it's always my work browser number
four is always slack so like uh i don't know
the bar i only need it for the clock you know
what i mean so sometimes i'm just like you know
what i don't even want to care what time it is
i'm just going to stay in one uh you know full
screen mode and then start writing code or whatever
you know like let's say i want to just edit my
neovim config or something i just jump right
to it or what have you and i just like stay zoomed
in a lot too i don't know i just like to do one
one thing at a time yeah exactly like the opposite
of tiger woods you know what i mean and why not
multiple ones like why not multiple apps in the
screen so you can um x your productivity right
instead of single tasking you're multitasking
so you're a 10x developer why like let's say
i want to uh like i was telling you this before
i had a um i'll switch to your screen when you're
ready let me know yeah i'm ready i'm ready let's
say i want to go like into like um like some
development or whatever and then i just run the
hugo serve or whatever and then i'll go back
here and i'm here i'll go you know maybe i'll
go to the repo and then i'll go into the file
whatever i can just stay here um i don't need
to like the old me like maybe the old school
me would have had two monitors and said hey on
one monitor i'm gonna look at the code base and
vs code with like tabs open And like a file tree
or whatever. And then on the other monitor, I'm
going to have this open. Do you need that? That's
a question that I have for you, Tony, because
that's one of the reasons that people bring tiles
up. I do web development and I need to see in
real time what's happening. Like I cannot waste
a second to go to my waist, a second to go to
my, you know. So I'm like, but man, with the
single key press, you can switch the other apps,
see what happened, go back. Like, do you really
need, do you need tiles there or no? If you do
web development, the way that you're showing
right now. And even that, like even this thing
on the right is kind of bloat. Like this could
be its own. A lot of the times I pop this out
and put it in number five. And so like, cause
I want to see the screen full. but if i'm developing
and let's say i want to like look at what mobile
looks like i do like to kind of have this available
um but yeah like if i'm just doing some development
in here like i think i always talk about it's
really easy to just say hey i want to change
let's say change let's change quick and painless
you know i can use my mouse here to copy that
with the ctrl c and then i can just grip it here
and then there's the file i can go in there and
i can just change it to slow and painful We saved
that and now I'm already there. Like I don't
need it. Yeah, no, I don't need to be that. Like
I'm, I don't, you know what I'm saying? Yeah,
exactly. That is better. But I don't know. My
whole point is like, no, I don't think it's all
personal preference though. So like if someone
tells me, Hey, i'm a web developer and i need
like seven monitors like one for the inspect
element like one for my vs code one for the file
structure you know one for mr beast uh so i can
see what he's up to yeah well that's no because
then he's actually doing something good right
i'm trying to like roast this person this hypothetical
person i'm roasting okay but like but um you
know and i think i even have like that whole
bookmarks thing i still have it from the last
demo like i could just go to your immediately
go to your website right there boom done i'm
gonna talk about joshua blythe and stuff like
it's all i don't need to do all this extra blow
i don't know man i feel like you just have to
for me as a web developer it's literally just
one two one two one two one two you know what
i mean so okay okay and and what about you hendrick
what are your thoughts on that i feel this is
one of the cases where i would actually prefer
two screens or at least in my case you know i
have kind of my my main screen right in front
of me and then i have my macbook to the sides
kind of on a um on a stance so it's kind of the
same height as my monitor So I can look at it
and my camera is now mounted on top of it. And
so I wouldn't use this as my active screen, but
just to put something there to look at it when
I need to, I think that kind of works really
well. So usually, for example, I would have here
a playlist or Spotify or something like that.
And it's not something that I actively work with,
but sometimes I glance over and just see it.
So that's kind of how I would deal with that.
part of your core workflow right like or is it
part of your core workflow no it's not just like
most of the time my macbook screen is empty and
i'm just using my main monitor and i do i do
see the case i do see a point where um so that's
how i would do it in this case when if i was
developing a web app i would have the the browser
window with the live preview on the macbook screen
but i would definitely not have it in two tiles
because if my code is in one tile and the preview
is on the other in the other tile then it means
like most of the time i'll be looking at my code
right and i won't spend so much time looking
at the preview because i'll be coding but then
it means i would need to look always to one side
of the screen And ideally, I would have my main
work front and center on the screen, which is
the most ergonomic, the most comfortable for
me to keep for long periods of time. Okay, so
overall then, what's the conclusion of this?
Everyone that uses multiple monitors is just
bloat. They don't know what they're talking about.
Agree? I mean, I'd co -sign that, but to an extent
where if we caveat the fact that the word bloat...
means things that you don't personally like then
yeah 100 i'm i'm all for that but um i do have
a question for henry do you ever see a situation
where like maybe an older version of you like
a younger version i guess rather would have had
like my sql workbench or something like one of
those ides from my sql open on like a separate
monitor and then you can look at the data yeah
db or something and then you you're looking at
that on a second monitor and then like kind of
looking at your code and stuff that's been now
solved with your 20 line neovim like native plug
script that you wrote or no yeah i think so definitely
i definitely felt more was better in the past
um and i do feel depending on the nature of the
work a different workflow is probably better
for example if you do a lot of data analysis
i do feel it is helpful to have multiple screens
just because you'll probably have some kind of
presentation or some spreadsheet or whatever
maybe someone sent you over a spreadsheet hey
have a look at these whatever ids and then you're
kind of pulling those over into a query and then
you need to look at the results and then maybe
sometimes you need to see a big table and yeah
i i just think that can be very helpful at times
now is it bad getting used to working with multiple
monitors in case they don't have to at some point
should you go through the pain you know of improving
your workflow so you can adapt it to a single
monitor so it doesn't matter if you have to go
outside you can still be as efficient you think
or it's like now i work with um data analysis
like you mentioned i don't know what you guys
do there but i guess you go through a lot of
data right but um is it worth it to try to adapt
it to a single monitor it's like no it i'll just
use two monitors and whatever in my opinion it
really depends on your main work setup like if
you're a person that travels a lot i definitely
think it makes sense to optimize for a smaller
screen like in my case i sometimes work from
the berlin office sometimes i work at home sometimes
i go to my mom's place in germany work there
and so i have a lot of different setups and i
like to be able to work With my MacBook monitor,
with my main monitor, with a different monitor,
I want to be able to just use my laptop keyboard
as well. That's why I'm not using something like
a Mac or some weird QWERTY. Just because I can
keep the muscle memory and use a computer like
a normal human being. I kind of optimize for
that. Yeah, I guess it really depends. But then
if you're a person that only does data analysis
and only working from the home office and never
travels, never goes to the office, and you always
have your optimal setup, then why not optimize
for that? But it really depends on the person
and the need, I would say. So basically, if you're
an Arch user that doesn't go out to touch grass,
it's just in front of the computer the whole
day. You're allowed to use multiple monitors.
Is that what I understood from your conclusion?
Yeah, you can optimize for whatever you want.
You can optimize for Dvorak, I don't know. Konec,
Dvorak, all that stuff. They're going to come
after you again, Link. No, but I think he's right
because there's value in being able to work on
a laptop only and work efficiently, especially
when you're just working from home. couple days
of the week you go into the office or whatever
with your laptop i think people could that can
get stuff done quickly with one screen like i
don't know it just helps you know you don't have
to like you don't need a whole setup you could
just get you you have a bug or something right
you pull your laptop out of your backpack and
then you skate to the coffee shop or whatever
and then you order like a little latte for it
costs eight bucks or whatever and then you just
quickly fix it and then you're giga chad you
know what i'm saying like you don't care Yeah,
yeah. Like you have a MacBook too, probably.
And this person I'm talking about has a MacBook,
right? Yeah, of course. So I remember how it
was when I had my huge screen and I had to work
on the small screen. Man, I just, that memory
came back to my mind and it was freaking painful.
Have you guys seen the Microsoft errors where
there's a lot of instances of the error, like
a trail? Have you seen that image? Like there's
a lot of small, hold on. This is the way that
I had to organize my apps. Microsoft Air Trail.
I guess I'm going to be able to find something.
This is the way that I had to organize my applications
when I had to switch from the 4K TV to the monitor.
So I had all of them like this and I would click
on the edge, you know, to travel to each app.
It was painful. It was not effective. It was...
Uh, no, but you know, you come a long way link,
you come a long way and you've evolved and you've
got a lot more to go. You never, it's a, it's
a rabbit hole. You never stop. You'd like literally
this morning you were doing something with, with
some kitty sessions, right? Or something like
that. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, but it all goes along
with the keyboard as well, right? Is the keyboard
a huge part of your guys's workflow? Let's go
with you, Tony. What do you do with your keyboard?
What do you do with your mouse? What do I do
with my keyboard, bro? That's a little bit of
an intimate question. What do I do with my keyboard?
No, I feel like I'm going to agree with Henry
on this. I want my keyboard to be... I want to
be able to use all of my workflow on a rubber
dome keyboard that's $5, like the Dell keyboard
that comes with the built -in pre -built PCs,
that little $5 keyboard. I want to be able to
use that keyboard and be just fine. And I'm pretty
sure if i have like some split keyboard or some
dvorak thing like i i'm not going to be able
to just float around and be efficient on all
that stuff plus i don't have carpal tunnel or
anything like that like that bad because i actually
watched the work i watched the carpal tunnel
videos i've been doing those exercises every
every day so i think you know that goes a long
way too i'm just kind of half kidding because
but i do actually do some of that stuff but for
me it's like it's like the split keyboard thing
i actually press y uh with my left hand my left
pointer finger So I can never use a split keyboard
because of the fact that when I split my hands,
the Y key is on the right side. So when I do
monkey type on a split keyboard, I'm at like
eight words per minute because I can't hit Y.
And there's some other things, too. But on a
regular keyboard, I'm pretty fast. So I'm always
going to be using a regular keyboard, probably
just for two reasons. One is kind of what Henry
said is like if you open up a random laptop or
if you have to debug somebody on somebody, a
normal machine. I want to be able to just use
the keyboard Q -E -Q -W -E -R -T -Y, you know?
So unless the government mandates Dvorak or Colmac
or something, like I'm going to be staying on
like a regular keyboard for until then. So how,
how often do you use another laptop though? Like,
cause I have my, my key maps, you know, my, my,
my keyboard is configured on my external keyboard,
but using Canada, I can figure it the same way
on my Mac book keyboard on the built -in keyboard.
So it doesn't matter if I'm on the glove 80.
Or if I'm on the MacBook keyboard, my key maps
are the exact same. Nothing changes at all, right?
So if I'm on my computer, it's awesome. I can
work, doesn't matter. But yeah, if I go to a
different computer, god damn. Or if someone tries
to use my computer, good luck. They will not.
But I use QWERTY, you know? That's security.
That's security though, right? that's another
layer of security right yeah yeah yeah but i
use qwerty right but how often do you use another
computer so i use like five different computers
and i don't even leave my house that often man
i've got like a setup down here and then i've
got two three laptops like that i would do different
things on one of them is just like testing different
linux distributions because for the channel i
make a lot of linux videos and i want to do it
on bare metal and then i've got like a work laptop
and stuff and i've got like i just have a bunch
of machines that i use i have two computers i
have a server i have too many dude there's too
much stuff dude my life is bloated with as far
as like how many computers i have it's it is
bloat for sure but yeah definitely and i've got
too many keyboards too just collect them over
the like last couple years so what about what
about you hendrick what are your thoughts on
um keyboard like yeah in your entire workflow
is it like keyboard centric a lot or it's like
nah not too much yeah there's a trade -off there
right because i try to make it as keyboard centric
as possible and i even try to to get a vim like
workflow everywhere in the browser using tools
like uh what is it called vimium i even made
a video about shortcut recently which is this
um vim everywhere kind of tool that allows you
to click on anything in any ui and on on mac
using the keyboard but honestly for the day -to
-day workflow as long as i'm in the terminal
i only use the keyboard but then if i'm in a
browser i find i'm just faster using the mouse
and i also think there's nothing wrong with using
the mouse when you're interacting with the ui
that is designed for the mouse because i mean
some things are just designed for that kind of
workflow i mean with no mouse see how that goes
yeah i mean it would be perfect if everything
was a tui or a cli app but it's just not the
case unfortunately yeah yeah i use the mouse
as well i try to use this mouseless app but I
haven't used it in a long time. Sometimes it's
just faster to grab the mouse. But then I'm like,
but I should be using Mouseless, and I open it
from time to time, and I'm just switching between
the two. I tried to go Mouseless completely,
but it didn't work out for me. Is it the grid
one? The grid one, yeah. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah,
that's pretty cool. To sort of echo what Henry
just said, for web development, I need to make
sure that the mouse works for the user, so I
have to use the mouse, you know? Exactly. But
if I'm in the terminal, exactly like you said,
it's always the keyboard. If I'm in NeoVM, keyboard,
etc. What the... It's great. It looks like C
-Matrix or something, bro. You look like Neo.
What are you doing? If you're epileptic, be careful.
You forgot to give the trigger warning, man.
Yeah. So that is the trigger or the grid that
Hendrik was talking about. Now, is there... Oh,
okay. Yeah. Let's talk about something else.
Let's talk about this other window manager that
I've seen a lot recently that is called Neary.
This is a Linux thing. Us, macOS, you know, normies
don't know about this type of window manager,
but I have seen it a lot, right? So is it worth
it? Is it useful? What do you think on that,
Tony? Yeah, I think it's great. I actually have
a video coming out on it probably in a few weeks,
but I think people, First of all, I think it's
written in Rust, so that always makes it, you
know, you get extra points if you're written
in Rust, you know? A lot of people like that.
But another thing is, like, if you don't care
about that, it's really good for, it has this
unique thing about it called it's like a scrolling
window manager. Like, a lot of you hear the tiling
window managers, dynamic window managers. This
one's like a scrolling one. And so people have
been taking this scrolling feature from Niri
and adding it to their own window manager so
that they can, like, have this new technology
in their own window manager. um but it's kind
of cool a lot of people say it's like designed
for laptops because you can just have like a
million different things open on one workspace
and just scroll them over and over again but
i don't think that does it justice because there's
so many different features with niri that are
not just that scrolling feature that that make
it like a little bit different than a lot of
these other i don't want to say window managers
because they're technically not window managers
but yeah you have a question I have a question
for you right there. Doesn't it defeat the purpose?
I know it manages windows and that's its purpose,
you know, because it's not like a workflow optimizer.
That's not its name, right? It's just a window
manager. So it manages your windows. But doesn't
it defeat the purpose of optimizing your workflow?
If you have everything, you know, like in a space
and you can scroll through 50 apps, right? Isn't
it too difficult to find your app? Let's say
that you have 20 apps, right? You have to scroll
through them. right oh here it is now i need
to go back to the other one that is all the way
at the beginning going back right so is it effective
so it is effective but it is effective because
there there's it's not just like one workspace
it has everything you you normally would expect
from window manager like you can do one two three
four for your tags but on those tags every i
guess every tag is considered like its own infinite
strip if you will so let's say you want to only
have one tag and you have a terminal like i was
showing earlier with the terminal in the in the
browser instead of switching over from tag one
to tag two you can just press like super h or
super l like with vim keybinds to just go like
left and right and just scroll through whatever
is on your tag one or tag two but it also works
really well with the trackpad so if you're like
a trackpad normie like it built into the kit
has trackpad like triple uh whatever the heck,
triple finger gestures and stuff. So it's like...
Like macOS. Yeah, exactly. Like macOS. Yeah,
yeah. I was about to say, I think it'd be good
for you to check it out. They're going back in
time and they're copying macOS. I don't buy it,
Tony. I disagree with you there. But it's not
a... I don't want to be... I'd hate to be this
guy, but it's not a window manager. Why do you
think it's a window manager? What is it? What
is it then? it's technically not a window manager
it's called a whaling compositor technically
oh okay so i'm curious why why you think it's
a window manager because i see it on youtube
all over the place if i search for niri i'm gonna
find a lot of videos i'm not gonna call any names
uh oh or no sorry guys maybe a dumb question
but because i've just learned about niri just
before the video and i've been looking into it
but i don't get what's the difference between
niri and just having a tiling window manager
and spaces that you can swipe between like on
mac os functionally it's pretty similar pretty
similar but niri is open source and free so that
would be the difference okay okay okay but i
mean on on regular linux machines you can also
have multiple spaces right so yeah look at this
scrolling window manager yeah i mean there's
a lot of cool things you can do in niri but again
like you said i think a lot of these window managers
have adapted pretty much everything um from each
other so yeah what's that who's that guy no you're
also getting the show that i got favorite youtuber
yeah oh this this short yeah that's the one that
i got it's an ai generated yeah yeah that's gold
so what was the question then hendrick like What's
the difference? Okay, so what's the purpose of
a scrolling window manager if you can have the
applications like in different spaces, right?
One in each space. I guess, Tony, would it be
like that you don't have to worry about putting
applications in different spaces and organizing
them, but instead of jumping to them effectively,
you scroll through them until you find it, right?
So you have to scroll through your apps until
you find the one that you want. kind of like
that right yeah i mean there's just different
out of the box defaults for niri for example
that are just sane i guess and yeah it has like
extra stuff like first of all it's not just i
guess it's a scrolling window manager but there's
so many other things that are they're adding
to it all the time to make it kind of um for
people that were used to like gnome back in the
day they had this workspace featuring gnome that's
similar to what you guys are talking about with
the you know the mac spaces and stuff so it's
like kind of a combo between like a desktop environment
and window manager. But yeah, it's an interesting
project for sure. I like it a lot actually for
my laptop. I've been using it just kind of for
testing purposes and it's pretty clean out of
the box for sure. I have another question on
this. So a tiling window manager always tries,
like you open an app and the tiling window manager
tries to find the optimal position on your screen,
maximize. your your screen real estate basically
right but now when you can scroll like how does
a window actually end up outside your your viewport
inside of that scrolling section and then how
do you scroll do you use do you use the mouse
or trackpad or can you scroll using the keyboard
how does that work yeah so you can scroll you
can you can customize it however you want but
out of the default the defaults are set up to
where you can scroll the trackpad if you have
one can also scroll with like super h super l
like the vim keys so you can just scroll left
right left right with one but you also don't
even need to use that aspect of the window manager
like you can just have it as a deep like you
could literally do what i just did um where you
just open one window on each tag and then you
just go to your tags and you don't worry about
it um but i actually would be curious to see
one of you guys like try it out on like a virtual
machine or something um just to see what it would
look like to watch a mac os user like open up
niri as deep with the defaults because it seems
like it kind of seemed it kind of feels like
it's mac os like defaults staying you know what
i mean does it come with the marching so we can
give it a try um it's distro agnostic so no omarchi
it comes with hyperland by default so i think
you'd have to if you're going to use omarchi
you have to install You'd have to install it
on top of Omarchi, I think. Okay. Now, is there
something else that you guys want to touch about
what we talked about right now or you want to
jump to another topic? Well, I mean, you mentioned
the O word. I mean, we can open that can of worms.
I feel it's pretty politically charged. We can
just jump right into that. Yeah. So I've seen
this everywhere, right? Omarchi, Omarchi and
big YouTubers bring it up. And everyone is, you
know, talking on someone's something. Right.
So it raises the questions and also it makes
me wonder, is it actually a good distribution?
I haven't tried it. Right. And I don't want to
try it because it's I feel that there's a lot
of hype around it because the content is hot
right now. If I make a video about Amarchi, people's
going to watch it probably. Right. So. Is that
the reason why it's so popular? Is it actually
really good? What do you guys think? I kind of
want to let Henry go first on this one. Okay.
I'll go after you. I mean, I think the reason
it's popular is because DHH has crazy reach.
And whatever he does, a lot of people are willing
to try. Also, he has a very good reputation.
So I think it makes sense that it's popular.
The way I feel about it is exactly how I feel
about NeoVim distros, essentially. I think...
they're really good especially to show you if
you have no idea what you're doing i would always
start with something like this just to see what
is possible like i have never raised the arch
configuration on on hyperland or anything so
just to get a sense of what is possible i would
start with omachi and then i would probably de
-bloat and see like remove all the stuff that
i don't need maybe make some tweaks here and
there and then two months later i will anyways
end up configuring everything from scratch and
building my own exactly how I like it. And that's
also how I did new Vim. After VS Code, I installed
AstroVim, then LazyVim, and nothing really worked
perfectly for me. And in the end, I just built
my own config. And I feel it would be the same
with Omagi. Well, it's great that it exists,
but it would most likely not be an end -all be
-all for me. What do you think, Tony? No, that's
a good, I mean, that's interesting, because you're
talking about the via negativa philosophy with
your with your setup, right? So you just go straight
from something that's out of the box with defaults
that you, you don't think you have time to set
up for yourself to see what's possible. I get
that. Um, I actually didn't know anything about
home marquee until yesterday when you told me
we're going to talk about it. Cause I've purposely
kind of just been blocking it out mentally because
I see so much, like I just see so many every
day. I see a new video about it, a thumbnail
or a title. And I'm like, what is this? And I
just, for whatever reason, I didn't like the,
um, aesthetics of the word omarkey in the thumbnail
so i just never clicked on it and so i'm like
yeah you know what whatever but then so when
you ask me you know hey let's talk about a market
like you know what let me actually look at this
and see what this is about before i actually
talk about it so i looked at the repo it looks
pretty i mean it looks like the the the base
camp is who made the like who made the repository
i guess it was made by dhh but base camp is like
a like the conglomerate corporation or whatever
yeah i mean called account i guess but the the
corporation that made the company the district
we want to call distribution they also made something
for ubuntu similar uh i looked at their like
i'm a cool what happened to that did it die already
well i think it still exists i'm sure it's the
same thing like i think it just started with
somebody wanting like same defaults shippable
to a bunch of other people like I don't have
any problem with that. It's a free open source
project. Somebody can ship their .files to whoever
they want. It just installs everything you need,
and that's kind of cool. Maybe it lowers friction
for people that don't want to go through the
process of setting everything up by themselves.
But what I will say is that when I looked at
the script, there's so much stuff on there that
I think is just not needed. To debloat that,
it would actually take less time to just... start
from scratch and then like figure out like what
you're missing because it's like for me personally
like i don't know i only need like five things
like henry only needs like i think neo vim uh
wes term maybe like a kind of a window manager
that's similar to like the workspace one two
three four five thing and mac and then like from
there i guess it would just be like a web browser
and like i think it would be like a lot easier
to just start from scratch like you just need
like five tools to get everything going whereas
if you download this um we'll call it free and
open source bloatware, I guess we'll call it
that. When you install this, it's like you have
so much stuff on your system that you don't need.
I mean, I don't know. It just like, it doesn't
make any sense. Like it's somebody else's key
binds. It's like putting on somebody else's clothes
and like walking around outside. That doesn't
make any sense. Just worry, just make your own
stuff. You know what I mean? But you know, I
don't know. I mean, we'll see where this goes.
I do get a little bit of a vitriolic response
when I see a video that says, is a you know something
about a marquee of the title and i'm like i don't
really why are we why are we you know astroturfing
this but it is what it is i mean it's it's probably
a good thing for for for linux because it's bringing
people probably bring people into arch and make
people start learning about arch but i think
vimity actually said this about about neo vim
distributions in one of his videos he said that
if you start with like lunar vim or something
or what was the other but envy chat or yeah and
be chat one of those yep and then you have a
bug right and you you search on either google
or an llm and you say how do i make this work
in lunar vim like that's not gonna you're not
gonna figure that out right but if you're in
neovim and you're just doing regular stuff you're
like okay how how do i make this work in neovim
like the same concept right like you're not going
to really be able to figure it out in a much
smaller ecosystem with less tutorials less documentation
and so on exactly But yeah, overall, I think
I have given it a lot of unnecessary hate, to
be honest with you, privately with you guys,
because it is free and open source software at
the end of the day, and it's somebody else's
dot files. It's kind of cool. I think it probably
is pretty cool, but it's just not something that
I'd ever need, right? Because I've already spent
so much time configuring my system. And if anybody
asks me, would I recommend it to anybody? No,
I would not recommend that to anybody. So, I
don't know. Not even someone completely new.
go go henrik i'm sorry you know i basically have
the same question like i've never raised a arch
configuration but i feel at some point there's
no way around that i'll eventually end up there
and so if you don't recommend something like
omachi to start with i'm wondering like what
would you recommend for someone like me where
should i start it's a good question for someone
like you i would really recommend the base arch
iso and then just install it straight up write
down everything you use on your um like on your
mac like write down all the tools that you use
like you know whatever web browser you use whatever
kind of uh you know neo vim west term like write
all that stuff down like on a piece of paper
maybe or like on a text file and just ask an
llm hey how do i get all this stuff on arch and
then it'll give you like all the package names
or you can even look at the arch repo but it's
not going to take as much time as you think i
feel like deep loading on marky would take days
whereas setting up like a decent workable arch
distro for somebody even like you who's never
touched it would take like a day maybe you know
what i mean it's i don't know i think that just
might be that's maybe that's the question that
i have as well same as hendrick right like okay
i installed arch um i don't know some months
ago i didn't even log into the screen because
someone told me that i had chosen the wrong greeter
because you have a lot of options right it's
not like okay and it It's not specified like
in the Arch Wiki or somewhere like, okay, so
if you choose this option, it means this. You
can use it with this other option, with this
other dependencies, whatever. So it's a lot of
trial and error, right? You install it, then
you realize, oh, fuck, that's not the one that
I needed. I needed this other option, right?
So Amarchi gives all of the options built in.
Do you think it would take more time for me to
de -bloat it like you said compared? to learning
i i wouldn't use a marquee i would use something
like manjaro linux which is like an arch fork
that has like a desktop environment built into
it already and then you could just use that and
then go from there like it stuff like manjaro
linux or arco linux or whatever or arctics arctics
has like a couple isos that give you a desktop
environment option endeavor os is another one
that joshua belize just pointed out in the irc
But I would never use a marquee because it's
like somebody else's personal config files. Whereas
like these other distributions, I would actually
consider them distributions because they're shipping
with like just very, very default programs. And
you're not going to like have to worry about
the problems that you're talking about where
you don't have a greeter or anything like that.
You could just like check out Manjaro Linux because
it just it has stuff built into it. Or I mean,
honestly, just give me a call. Just give me a
call and I'll help you install Arch. And they'll
get you sorted in like one day or less, dude.
Like you don't need a distribution for it. You
know what I'm saying? That makes sense. I'm not
selling it on you. Dude, you really want to market,
huh, man? Like it seems like it's something that
you're really interested in, bro. No, no, no.
I'm not interested in it, but I see it everywhere.
And I'm like, okay, I have done this for way
too long on macOS, man. And I already spent my...
workflow hours in mac os i have put hundreds
of hours in all this you know not only mac os
but neobim and i'm tired i'm like i don't want
to deal with any of this shit anymore right um
i don't want to start from scratch from scratch
in linux it's like no no no no it's like if i
would switch over to emacs right now it would
be a pain man it would be too painful it would
be too much right because i'll tell you this
i'll tell you this it's going to be more painful
to go to oh whatever it's called the old word
and then de -bloat it and get kanata up and running
on all that oh whatever crap than it is to just
go from arch default and get everything set up
or go to manjaro linux or go to arco linux or
even go to my uncle's distribution dt os go straight
to his os and like it's all going to be hard
for you because you have such a unique setup
with kanata and you have uh you buy all this
kind of other you've got raycast i think which
we're going to get into later um i don't know
that was a smear but yeah i think it's just my
point is it's just going to be a lot more work
than need than needed like i think you're viewing
it as like maybe a potential friction reducer
but i think it's a friction increaser so you
know i i don't know um in my mind like i can't
see this situation ever helping somebody's workflow
i think it's always just going to make it harder
and worse because it's, like I said, I keep saying
it as a joke, but it's just somebody else's dot
files. I don't know. Imagine if I took your dot
files and put them on my computer and said, here's
my new distro. And I don't even know, I have
to hold S for like four seconds or three seconds
or two. I don't remember. Is it, that opens a
new kind of thing? Like, what am I, where's my
D menu? I don't have D menu. I've got something
else, some proprietary garbage. And it changes
every single day. And I've, yeah, no, that's
not going to happen, man. I'm not doing that.
So that's what you're describing to me. know
what i'm saying but but tony i mean just to see
one example and learn from look i'm a fan of
learning from someone who has done it before
and who's kind of an expert at the field and
i feel like with omachi i would get at least
some best practices someone has kind of figured
it out maybe i don't like a lot of things but
at least i see once how it can be done and then
i can later pick the best parts and throw away
what I don't need. For example, when I was learning
NewVim and started with LazyVim and AstroVim,
I mean, at the end I built my own config, but
at least there were some sensible keybinds and
stuff. And when I learned it, I didn't even know
that some of these keybinds, I would have no
idea where to place some custom keybinds because
I wouldn't even know that they don't conflict.
with a built -in keybinds because i was just
a total noob and i didn't know anything about
neovim so but just that and having like a pre
-built set that has sensible keybinds at least
will tell me okay this is something that i can
use then maybe later i can set up something else
or whatever but at least they're sensible because
do you think they're sensible keybinds because
it's dhh that made it or do you think no is that
way no just because they I mean, because DHH
is beautiful. Yeah, quote me on that. Well, because
what I'm saying is if you install DHH, if you
install a marquee or whatever it's called today,
your NeoVim config, you're going to have to,
you're going to have to remrf, you know, whatever.
So local nvim, whatever, and then get clone your
nvim. And then, you know, that's one aspect of
it. But I feel like there's not much to configure,
like as far as the workspace management stuff.
Because you're not using Yabai, right? You're
just using the default macOS workspaces, or no?
No, I'm using Karabiner Elements. Like a custom
window management solution. So you already have
your finger on the pulse for what binds work
for you, right? Like switching between workspaces
and stuff? Yes. I mean, specifically regarding
the keybinds, I was more referring to NeoVim.
For example, I don't know. In AstroVim, you open
File Explorer with leader E. That's kind of what
I stuck to until this day because, well, yeah,
it kind of makes sense, right? I adopted it from
Astro. And back then, not knowing anything, I
would think, okay, where do I put my File Explorer
shortcut? Like, should it be Control -E? Should
it be Control -T? I don't know, whatever. And
this just gives me one idea and one best practice
that seems to work for a lot of people. And if
I don't know any better, then I can just take
that, you know? maybe it's the same with omaki
in some ways i would agree with your id with
your idea but i've looked at like the key binds
for the omarki and it's just his personal preference
i understand that like some person's personal
preference might be better than like the average
person off the street because they maybe they
spent hours and years developing and stuff but
like let's take renee for example like i don't
want to do his i don't want to use comic sans
just because he's a kernel developer you know
what i mean like i i don't want his preferences
like in my in my dot files so i'm just like i
get what you're saying and i see we're trying
to be charitable but i think for you personally
since you have everything already dialed there's
not actually much for you to configure i know
that sounds crazy but like it seems like it would
be faster for you to just install your dot file
because you have dot files you have nvim you
know you have tmux dot files like you have already
have a bunch of dot files so it's like you just
install that stuff and then Go from there. You
know what I mean? I guess you could start with
Omarki and then de -bloat it. Actually, I would
be kind of curious. I would like to see maybe
one day if we could sit down. How de -bloatable
it is. And see how long it takes to de -bloat
it, yeah. That would be a nice video. Because,
okay, I watched DistroTube's video on Omarki.
Nobody knows how it's pronounced, not even DHH.
But I watched this video on the keybinds. You
bring up the menu. I didn't like them. I hated
them. So I have my key binds already. You know,
if I want to go to an app, I already know how
to go to my browser, my terminal, how to go to
YouTube, how to go to chat GPT, how to, I already
know. And I will want to have the exact same
key maps in a Marchi. I'm not going to use, what
does it use as the keyboard mapping solution?
Is it the window manager? I assume that's it,
right? Hyperland controls all that stuff. Yeah.
Okay. I don't want that. I want to control that
in Kanata. So I'm going to install it on top
of Marchi and just delete all the key maps in
there. Is that possible? Yeah, it is. It is possible.
You just have to remove all the keybinds from
the config file. What would be the point? I mean,
just migrating for the sake of migrating? It
seems that it's stable as well. What do you mean
stable? That was for Tony directly. I was going
to ask you. What the hell are you talking about?
What do you mean, is it stable? That it seems
that it runs pretty neat on hardware. Well, I'm
not going to get old hardware or anything like
that. It's going to run. It doesn't matter what
destroy run. It's going to run properly. Okay.
I wish it was proprietary because then I could
hate on it more. You know what I'm saying? I
almost said it's proprietary. It's just garbage.
It's not proprietary garbage. It's just garbage.
It's just garbage. There it is. It's a garbage
wrapper for an Arch install. That's all it is.
It's a glorified Arch install, which takes, for
me, it takes four minutes. For anybody who wants
to install Arch with a script, they can already
do that. If you want to watch my video, you can.
It'll take you 10 minutes to install Arch. And
then it installs like 100 programs. And then
it has these defaults that are not saying they're
somebody else's. it's like going out with somebody
else's wife like what are you doing so you got
all this stuff on top of already something that's
is there's no dude it's just to me there's no
point honestly i can't in good faith recommend
it to anybody so if you're somebody who wants
to learn arch linux and you're afraid of like
looking at a scary terminal and having nothing
there just download manjaro linux endeavor os
one of these already existing things that's not
being astroturfed by basecamp or whatever company
this this guy this is this this guy works for
you know what i'm saying but if you're if you're
if you're and if you're you if you're linkarzu
and you want to you're not going to switch to
arch linux that's not going to happen that's
not going to happen you're going to be debian
stable right you're going to be going yeah like
the king so you can't even use it mark you got
to wait for you got to wait for odebian or whatever
it's going to be yeah that's the thing yeah yeah
yeah man but as far as henry goes like i think
if you're going to switch to arch linux some
at some point no you probably if anything what's
that Temple OS, if anything. Exactly. See, now
you're in the ballpark. See, now we're talking
my language. I feel like I just ranted for a
while now, but that's my whole thing. It's awesome
that somebody put his dot files out there. I
love that. I don't love it being showed in my
face as a product. You know what I'm saying?
Like, I'm not going to give LinkGarju's .files
as a product. I don't have the money. It's a
new distro. Well, you don't have the corporate
sponsorship behind it. I don't have the money
to promote them that way. And I don't have the
connections because you need to have the name,
right? If I wouldn't have the name and the primogen
and TJ, well, TJ hasn't made any videos about
Omarchi, I think. But if, you know, nicknames
would support my .files, you know, they would
be popular. Do you think it's suspicious that
it's like... Don't you think it's suspicious,
though, a little bit that it's somebody's dot
files that are just like that person cares so
much and he wants everyone to use his dot files?
Isn't that a little bit weird to you? I don't
know. I share mine. You don't know? But do you
go out of your way and say, hey, and then make
a video and then like stare at the camera like
an alien and say, use my .files. You got to use
my .files. It's really important to everyone
in my life. You got to use my .files. Are you
really going to? You see what I'm saying? Like,
no, you're not doing that. You're just saying,
here's my .files if you want them. Here you have
them. And in fact, isn't it annoying when you
do share your .files and then somebody randomly
pings you and says, hey, this doesn't work for
your .files and da -da -da -da -da. Like, isn't
that a little bit annoying? Do you even want
that bandwidth? I mean, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, you have a point there. I don't know. Like
what's going on there? It's suspicious to me.
Could it be that he hates Apple so much, right?
Because he was like Apple, 100 % Apple. And he
was like an Apple shill. Is that how you kids
call it? Apple shill, right? So he was like the
biggest Apple representative. out there, right?
But I don't know. He had a fight with Apple because
of some charges, whatever, right? So could it
be possible that he hates Apple so much right
now and he's excited about Linux? I don't know,
man. What's going on? Can you hear me? Yeah,
I can hear you. Yep, we can hear you. I'm not
sure if it's me or... We can hear you. Okay,
but for me, everything was breaking up. Oh, okay,
okay. Can you hear us right now, Hendrik, or
no? Yeah, you're coming back on. Okay. Yep. Okay.
so basically uh linkars who asked you i guess
if you know anything about like why what do you
think the reason is for why he's so aggressively
pushing this on people or if or maybe i'm wrong
maybe he's not maybe it just happens to be a
coincidence that every video is about omarkey
and he just loves sharing his stuff else with
everybody i don't know maybe he just loves doing
that i haven't thought about it to be honest
i don't have a conspiracy theory on that yeah
yeah that's yeah um because to me to be extremely
charitable let's just let's just assume 100 good
faith and let's just say that this guy's very
passionate about this project and he wants people
to kind of check it out and say hey i want to
spread my my project to everybody because i think
it's pretty cool like let's just assume that
that's let's say that's the best case right well
okay that's cool man that's awesome like but
you know me no thanks i've got my doc balls already
set up but is that really the case where where
you're gonna pay somebody five thousand dollars
to fork chromium to make it you know a specific
for your use case i mean come on is that really
are you passionate about your own project so
much so that you're going to pay somebody some
money to fork chromium and put that into your
distribution of linux that's just your dot files
compiled with an install script i'm not mad i
promise i'm not even mad about this i'm not imagine
if you were i know it'd be crazy right it'd be
crazy yeah yeah you see what i'm saying link
or no you feel me or not really no no yeah yeah
i get it i get it and i'm like okay i don't want
to go through the pain of installing arch that's
it I don't even want to install Arch, like you
said, Tony. I'm going to stick to macOS because
it works for me. I don't have any beef with macOS.
I just want to get my job done. I want to create
my videos. I want to do these live streams. macOS
allows me to do that. I don't want to figure
it out on Linux. It's fine. I don't have a reason
to leave macOS. But if I ever do, I don't want
to go through the pain of configuring and installing
Arch and translating my setup into it, which
I will have to do anyway. It doesn't matter if
I run... vanilla arch or if i run um on marchi
so if i need help i'll reach out and i'll ask
you because there's a lot of questions that someone
coming from mac os has moving over to linux there's
a lot of questions that's a lot of stuff that
you don't know right yeah but i think like this
whole prop this whole concept of oh asterisk
asterisk asterisk asterisk asterisk asterisk
why what it is is it's it's it's an it's an iso
So it technically is a distro, right? But there's
something else that exists already. That's in
my opinion, like a way better solution for you.
And that's DTOS. You just take that. So that's
somebody that's in my opinion, he's not astroturfing
his, he just made it as passionately. Hey, this
is my OS. People keep asking me for my dot files.
Like here it is. So distro tube just made his
dot files like into an OS basically. Right. Like,
and, and, and it's got all of his defaults and
everything. And I don't feel like that's being
pushed by, you know, I don't even want to say
names, but it's being pushed by like the, you
know, Sylvan's girlfriends of the world. You
know what I'm saying? Like, it's not, it's not
somebody that you're seeing all over the place,
but it's, it's DTOS. He's just passionate about
his own dot files and stuff. And I think you,
you already know that you already know DT, right?
So you can say, Hey, like I'm going to install
your operating system and I'm excited. Right.
And then you can make a video and say, Hey, I
installed DTOS. Like that's your buddy. You know
what I mean? Like, so it's like, I would use
point you to that instead because it's arch based.
Right. So. That's what I would go with. Okay.
Now, Hendrik, what are your thoughts on Linux
as a macOS user in the long term? What are your
plans? Because even if you don't know it right
now unconsciously, you think about it. You know
it. Don't talk crap. You know that you're going
to stay on macOS or you know that eventually
you're going to move to Linux, right? I think
I know that I'm going to stay on macOS. I don't
know. What about you? yeah i'm kind of married
to mac os but i have a crush on linux kind of
situation so the thing is most of my work is
done well at work and at work i have a macbook
so i mean i could have chosen a linux as well
but everyone on my team is on mac and if i was
the only linux guy it would it would make things
a lot a lot harder because i'm also developing
a lot of internal tools and stuff like that and
i'm helping people a lot with the uh environment
setup and tooling and stuff like that and it
would just be even harder if i had a completely
different machine and then i'm not sure if i
would even have the possibility to use arch i
would probably get like a ubuntu pre -installed
machine or something like that so would be quite
limited as well so given that most of the work
that i do anyways has to be done on mac i might
as well just go all in on that and optimize for
it because otherwise i have my arch at home which
i and the thing is like at home like my private
workflows are mainly video editing at this point
and i heard that getting davinci resolve to run
on arch is like super hard and not straight straightforward
at all and what do you have to say about that
sony and then even let's say even even if that
was super smooth i had like the optimal arch
workflow if the key binds differ from what i
have on mac which i have to use at work then
i just can't build muscle memory that works universally
for all the computers that i'm i'm working on
so yeah i would love to use linux and get like
my arch configuration going and use that everywhere
but then there's also a bit of realism having
to work with mac and uh and it can be quite good
as well i mean maybe not as smooth a buttery
smooth and perfect but it can be quite decent
yeah it's a good point right you want to remove
friction right you don't want to increase it
like you've got a lot of stuff going on in your
life and you don't want to make it harder right
yeah but now unleash the beast tony what would
you say to a macOS user because I'm also a macOS
user and I'm on the same boat as well. I don't
have a reason to stay on macOS, you know, because
I had to use macOS at the previous company that
I was in right now. In the current company, I
don't. I'm using Windows there. That sucks, man.
That's horrible. But I don't have a reason to
stay on macOS, but I decided to stay on macOS
because I just got used to it and I can customize
it pretty well. You know, if I see that you guys
on Linux do something, and I feel inspired by
it, and it makes sense, I'm like, okay, I'm going
to do it on macOS. But if it's like a scrolling
window manager, I'm like, nah. You already have
that built into the kit on macOS. Yeah, kind
of, with the spaces and all that stuff. But I
grab inspiration from Linux. And I guess that
a lot of... Yeah, by creator. That was like the
first window manager on macOS, I think. He definitely
comes from Linux. You cannot get that knowledge
out of nowhere, right? So I guess there's a lot
of cross, I don't know, platform inspiration
going on between macOS and Linux. But what do
you think about macOS? What would you say to
a macOS user, Tony? Yeah, so that's the thing.
I don't actually care what people do with their
own... like here's my thing if you're on mac
os and you make and it works for you like i think
that's good you know keep keep doing your thing
just my problem with it is that not only is it
proprietary garbage the issue is that the firmware
is proprietary firmware garbage too is to a point
where it's planned obsolescence to a point where
you're going to have to upgrade your laptop every
couple years because whatever new usb type c14
is is now the new thing or whatever you can't
charge it or whatever or the battery all of a
sudden like just randomly dies exactly two years
after you buy it and then you go to the you know
that mac store and they say oh well actually
you can't just replace it we got to just buy
a new get a buy a whole new laptop or whatever
right and it's not just apple that's doing this
i told you this in our interview like thinkpads
are doing this too now basically all these laptop
companies are taking it uh inspiration from the
apple pro products uh planned obsolescence business
strategy because it's a good business strategy
but it's just terrible for the users so i i don't
know it's like i like to use old old hardware
you know like like older older laptops because
you can just buy a battery from like ebay on
it if the battery breaks for like 10 bucks and
you put it into your laptop you can upgrade the
ram and stuff like you cannot do that on a macbook
you cannot do that on even a newer thinkpad so
just that alone i wouldn't i wouldn't use that
or like recommend people use it but if they already
have like a macbook and stuff i'm not going to
think less of them or judge them or anything
like that i'm not i'm actually a pretty nice
guy man i don't know why you say unleash the
beast you know i just happen to have like a little
bit of uh maybe emphasis with the you know proprietary
garbage stuff and you know maybe i don't like
the omarkey stuff as much but if somebody wants
to use omarkey that's that's all good so that's
their choice and i think it's cool man totally
cool okay okay cool yep um Another point that
I have here is that on macOS, you know, as a
macOS user, if I create a video, there's always
someone in my comments that's going to be like,
why don't you do that in Raycast? Right. And
if it's like window management related stuff,
someone in the common is going to go. But you
can do that in Raycast or if it's I don't know,
whatever it is. Right. Clipboard manager. But
you can do that in Raycast or keyboard mapping.
You know, you can do that in Raycast, but they
don't understand that we are beyond Raycast.
Right. Raycast is for normies. Raycast is for.
And it's a cool tool for my grandma, you know,
for my dad, you know, for my wife, I would install
Raycast. And it's, don't get me wrong, it's a
good tool. I use it, you know, I use it for a
lot of different things, you know. But does it
deserve the place that it has in the macOS community?
If you're not a power user, you don't know any
better, right? But what are your thoughts? What
do you think about Raycast, Henry? have quite
strong opinions on raycast honestly and i'm not
a huge fan mainly because it's not very dot files
friendly and it's quite bloated so the thing
is it does a lot of very useful things but then
it does like 99 of the things that it does i
don't really need i mean it's cool that it's
kind of a window manager it has some ai integration
it has i like the clipboard history actually
um what else does it have it has program or app
launcher kind of thing up launcher yeah and a
couple of others other things but i don't really
need most of those things and you know it's it's
as tony would say proprietary garbage right it's
a it's even it's even paid software and they're
trying to to push you towards the paid tier so
i looked up how to back up dot files and in raycast
and it's quite tricky to do there's not really
uh an easy way to back up your raycast configuration
and i've seen that even in the in the videos
of uh josean martinez he i think is also big
on raycast and he has like this one video where
he says this is my forever window management
workflow or something like that and part of it
is raycast which is cool but then something that
surprised me is that when very counter to what
he's usually doing is that he configured raycast
just by clicking in the gui and i thought that's
not very dot files friendly not very easy to
replicate and i believe the reason that it's
not very dot files friendly is that they actually
have this paid tier where who's that we just
got an upgrade boys come join me on irc yo um
join me on irc all right this guy here he's for
whatever reason i can only hear him on my left
ear at all times i don't know what that's about
but i like it but keep going henry pretend like
this didn't just happen okay i'm super confused
so this guy joining raycast is not very dot files
friendly and if you want to sync raycast or your
raycast config That's part of the pro tier. So
they kind of make it hard to back up your dot
files on purpose, I feel like, to push you on
the pro tier, which I don't really buy. I think
you can get most of the features and the stuff
that you really need from better free and open
source tools. Right on, dude. See, that's what
I'm saying. That's a champion of FOSS right there,
man. He's trying to decentralize everything and
he's trying to kind of do it himself, DIY. And
that's all, that's what I'm all for. So come
join me in IRC is like the movement we need to
be pushing right there. Like for people that
tell you the Raycast stuff and we'll get into
introducing Joshua in a second here, but for
the stuff that the Raycast comments, I'm kind
of curious, do you think they're paid people
to tell you that like in the comments, like literally,
like when they say, can you do this on Raycast
on all your videos? Do you think that's somebody
being paid by the Raycast company, like asking
you to convert to Raycast? Oh, that would be
a big brain move if they did that. So. you wouldn't
recommend raycast then hendrick no i well at
least not for my workflow i do think the clipboard
history especially is a cool feature but i'm
sure there are other tools free and open source
tools out there just for that use case or for
example for the window management or the i don't
know if it's window management it's just resizing
of windows i just use rectangle which is like
the super simple utility that is just designed
for that purpose and you know in carabiner elements
which is a tool to remap your keyboard which
i anyways use i just combine that with rectangle
and i have kind of one layer that allows me to
resize windows and another layer to switch between
apps and that works perfectly fine and then i
don't need that feature from raycast just the
window resizing and then get all the other bloat
that comes with it and the ai features and the
they trying to chill the the pro tier and all
that I don't really feel that's necessary. Yeah.
Someone sold us on Raycast and I don't remember
who it was and it happened a long time ago. I'm
wondering how far you're going to go without
introducing Joshua. What are you going to introduce?
I'm just going to let that sit, dude. Okay. You're
just going. Let's pause for a little while. Let's
pause for a little while. Hey, Joshua. You know
Joshua, Henry? Yes, from one of your videos.
Yeah, he has showed up in several of my videos
in the new event versus Emax video. Then he talked
to me about Emax. We did two of those, right,
Joshua? Yes. We've been in a lot of different
videos. For people that don't know who Joshua
is, here's the channel. Just go and subscribe.
You know, what is it? Emax? He's on the other
side. I'm sorry, guys. Emax and Nyx. God damn.
What else? They're going to come after you. IRC.
Come and join me on IRC. I love that video, man.
I don't even know where it came from, but I was
like, just look at the camera and say, join me
on IRC. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy, man. But we were
talking right now. Oh, yeah. We were talking
about Raycast. I don't think you know what that
is, Josh. I do, because my girlfriend has a Mac.
Oh, based. It's like a... it's like a discount
version of d menu but it's a budget but it's
a budget d menu i don't even want to give it
that title i would say it's not even a budget
d menu it's a budget let's see what is it a budget
it's a budget windows key when you're on the
windows machine you press windows what are your
thoughts on raycast joshua i i see what they're
trying to do um the fact that like you have to
pay to like that being said before i start with
that There are some pretty decent features that
are like default with it. So I'll give them that.
But I mean, at the end of the day, it's proprietary
garbage in the words of the guy above me. So.
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Henry also said that too. So
it wasn't just me. Yeah. Popularizing it. Yeah.
I mean, Alfred, wasn't Alfred a thing before?
Alfred is the other one. Yep. Yeah. What's Alfred?
I heard that before. Yeah, it's just an app switcher
as well, Henry, but it looks old. It actually
was invented in the 80s. I don't know when, but
it looks old and horrible. But a lot of people
use Alfred because it was what was before of
Raycast, actually. But it's also a paid application
switcher, and it has a lot of built -in features.
Raycast, but older. It was before Raycast, actually.
man i'll say about mac they want to charge you
five dollars for a widget in your in your toolbar
like i just don't get it man it's not only that
but you're gonna have to probably upload a picture
of your government id to download raycast at
some point and that's why i think you guys should
just come join me on irc it could be man we don't
know when but where where all of this is gonna
end but yeah real quick yeah yeah yes please
ready yeah how do i do it there ah yeah looking
at your screen yeah so this is the raycast website
right and this is where they showcase one of
the ai features and i mean just by this showcase
i mean you can sort of tell who this is designed
for right like the type of person who would ask
an ai how to exit him and i don't know i mean
this is cool but i don't really need that right
now I love the way you're like, look, this is
the perfect example, right? Look at their target
audience. This is either a joke or literally
this is their target audience of people who don't
know how to exit Vim. You know what I mean? It's
actually pretty impressive. Yeah. But another
way to exit Vim is literally just don't use Vim.
Yeah. Just use Emacs. Yeah. Yeah. But, okay.
But no, I know what you mean. When you can see
on like the target audience and you can see this
kind of like. You can see some of the stuff and
you like yeah, it's not that's how I feel about
the O word, right? I know we were talking about
it. Like I don't even need that. Yeah, exactly
like Voldemort's OS or whatever like You guys
want me canceled before IV and before I even
make it man, this is on my channel No, but it's
good. It's good. I want this to be honest and
yeah just being straight up yeah no i just think
like uh as he was saying like i don't know actually
josh i'm kind of curious what do you think about
the o word i know you're seeing a lot of it you
can't really ignore it but what do you i mean
i already know i'm just gonna do a video on it
okay just kidding he says just kidding i love
it do you think there's a bitcoin miner hiding
somewhere in one of those dot files yeah i mean
i've seen so many people make videos about it
and i'm like because like people are making arguments
like oh like the hotkey setup is so like opinionated
and i'm like well it's hyperlink you can literally
go into the dot files and change it in two seconds
like what are you talking about it's opinionated
like you can go change anything in it right i
think it's a good introduction to linux for people
that have never used linux before so i'll get
i'll i'll hand that one to them on a silver platter
but i uh i mean part of the fun and the involvement
of linux is trying to install arch linux for
here comes the next day and a half here comes
the next bill and then moving over to nix os
because it just solves all of your entire i mean
you're not gonna get any pushback from me on
that one right no i i mean i think you guys touched
on it but like part of the love of linux is that
like it's the struggle to get things working
and to make it into everything that you want
it to be right and if it's handed to you on a
silver platter then it's just windows or mac
right and then how does that make your life any
better okay maybe you've broken free from the
constraints of those two ecosystems but you don't
know how to do anything else so you don't know
how to customize things you don't want to change
anything about it um and i mean most of the bloatware
on that thing is already questionable to me yeah
so vs bleep what what is that what is that doing
on here yeah i love it no and i think i think
especially from somebody like you who has one
file that's a literate config file for their
entire life pretty much outside of like touching
grass yeah like you're not gonna want to go to
use something like you've already set up your
whole life in one file You know what I mean?
Like, if you look at your commits on GitHub,
like, you have, like, a bunch of commits every
single day. I know that's got to be, like, to
-do notes that are just, like, a one -click on
a keybind with GNU Emacs. There's no way you
actually get committing. Just read me. Just read
me changes. Exactly. Read me changes. Documentation.
You don't need a district. I don't know. I keep
hating on it for some reason because I want to
hate on it. You know what I mean? Like, we need
an enemy. We need a common enemy here, and that's
going to be, has to be the Omarchi setup, I feel
like. It's got to be. But we're finding the wrong...
we're fighting the wrong battle though, right?
I mean, we agree. Yeah. What's going to happen?
What's going to happen when, when blaze creates
his on March video or when Henry misc creates
his on March video, what's going to happen there
is the relationship over Tony. Um, no, man, I
think cause you guys are awesome. You guys are
great people. So I think what will happen is
you won't do that to me, right? No, I'm just
kidding. If you guys make a video on the O word
and I don't watch it, we just don't be offended.
You know what I'm saying? I'll comment and like
to get some more eyeballs on it, but I'm not
going to watch it. You know what I'm saying?
I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'll watch it. I'm
actually curious. Do you guys have plans on making
a video about this thing or not really? I guess
you have a video now. Editing this video will
be like in your way. You can have a clip of us
talking about it, right? That'll be your video
of it. Me, if I just run out of content, nah,
I had my fraser with Arch already, Tony. And
if I move over to Linux, it's not going to be
able to play around. I am going to use the distro
that men use. The king distro. The king distro.
The grandpa distro. The daddy of all distros.
debian just like drew does so if i move over
to linux it's not gonna be to play around uh
i have my thoughts on arch i don't know why i
would use arch i don't understand like the purpose
no i don't know i would go with debian probably
omarchi i don't think so if there was an odebi
would you use that Because I almost made you
an Odebi, basically. Remember when we were talking
about me kind of making you like a bunch of dot
files? I'm waiting on that. But that's not Odebi,
that's just Olinky, because that's literally
all of your dot files for Debian. That's not
for somebody else to ship, and then nobody could
hold S for four seconds and open up a D menu
or whatever. That's crazy, man. Yeah. Yeah. You
got some wild opinionated. How do you hold S
for three seconds and then you've got now a D
menu and S and F? Damn. Yeah. Just look at this.
You have to press it for the letter R, right?
So if I type the R for 0 .3 milliseconds, it
shows up my daily notes, right? And if I press
it again, just the letter R by itself, 0 .3 milliseconds.
Hold on. I did it too fast, right? In a floating
window in the terminal. So mine is really opinionated.
And there's people that have installed my .files
and, you know, just used all of the stuff that
I have. I don't understand how they do it. Because
if you guys would go into my .files, it's just
like a maze. It's just, I have a lot of trash
in there that I don't clean up, you know, and
a lot of experimental stuff that I don't delete.
And it's crazy. But I don't know. Debian is what
I would probably go with. What about you, Hendrik?
What time is it for you, Hendrik? Do you have
to drop already? Yeah, I have to drop in like
10 minutes or so. For me, it's 2 a .m. I'm getting
a bit tired. No, I would not make a video about
Omachi, but just because it's not time for me
to switch to Linux right now because I'm wondering
what do I stand to gain in terms of workflow?
And then potentially there's a lot to lose. I
mean, I get that. what you mentioned earlier,
Tony, about being independent of big tech companies
and independent of plant obsolescence and that
kind of stuff. And that makes a lot of sense
to me and that's a good goal to aspire to. But
then, yeah, I also just get a laptop from work
and I also need to work with that. And then,
yeah, I kind of need to optimize that as well
because that's where I do most of my work anyway.
So, I don't know. Maybe at some point it will
be time for me to switch to Linux, but it's not
time right now, so it doesn't really make sense
to make a video about Omachi either. Well, because
you do have a GigaChat response. Let's say your
cousin or your friend drops their MacBook into
a river, right? They can just use the iCloud
and sync up all their stuff, and they just get
a new MacBook and be fine, right? So that is
the GigaChat response. You just go buy a new
one, right? who cares about playing obsolescence
when you just go buy a new one buy a new one
because of how productive you are let's say you're
a 10x on a macbook and you make like 10x the
salary because you're 10x the developer just
buy another one you know i mean that is part
of the reason why i switched to iphone now because
in in my latest video i i mentioned this story
i think that's that's what i was referencing
yeah yeah yeah exactly so because a friend of
mine she was running and her phone her iphone
fell out of her pocket on a bridge into a river
and then yeah bad luck right but um she just
walked into the next apple store got a new iphone
and then had everything restored and was able
to go about her day as usual of course it costs
money that sucks but in terms of you're paying
for being able to just forget about your tech
you know it just works you have something that
you can just use and that's at the end of the
day what you're paying for and i think that's
also a fine perspective as long as you can afford
it and it doesn't really bother you too much
yeah Now, before we let you go, Henry, how much
time do you have left, Tony? I probably do like
another half hour. Okay. Let's just read this
super chat. Then we can talk with Joshua about
Nix if you guys want or whatever other topics
you guys want to touch on. IRC. We're going to
talk about IRC. IRC, yeah. Oh, baby. That's a
good point, actually. Pretty good point. It says
here, do you guys only deliver... Develop for
one platform, complaining about change or including
another platform bug. You that much? Music in
my time was the best. You guys understand what
this means? Just one platform. I know the first
part. I don't know what the last part is. About
change or including. No, I don't understand the
last sentence. Music in my time was the best.
Is that a lyric? No, that's probably. but because
the music in my time was the best like in in
the 80s you know like earth wind and fire and
all that stuff i guess yeah what does what what
does this mean complaining he's saying like do
you guys he's saying do you ever like do you
develop on mac for mac all the time or do you
develop on linux and mac and windows and stuff
and then he's saying like complaining about changing
like platforms does it really bug you that much
and i think it's a pun right because he says
bug like does it create bugs for you maybe it's
a pun or am i overthinking it I don't know. It's
deeper than we think. Gen X, what are you trying
to say here? Elaborate for us. Thanks for the
super chat, by the way. Really appreciate that.
But what do you guys do? Do you guys develop,
like you Hendrik, what do you develop for? Do
you develop for macOS? Do you develop for, yeah,
of course you do, right? How does that work?
It doesn't really matter. Most of my work is
in Python. and it runs in the cloud like it's
mostly ml ops what i'm doing so yeah it doesn't
really matter to be honest um like i don't produce
any um software applications that are shipped
to clients or something like that so as long
as it runs in a lambda function or an instance
or something like that in a container then it's
completely fine okay you know now that i think
about it henry would be the perfect candidate
for a nix transfer like for all of his stuff
to be nixified yeah because he just is ml ops
and ml ops is very i'm not even joking it's got
a good overlap with devops so i think it's like
he would actually be like kind of love nixos
i think it too much i think gonna be mind -blowing
dude i think it would be kind of a rabbit hole
that you yeah too far down yeah it's a wb thing
for sure but the problem or the reason i have
not really looked into nix as much is because
i never really felt the pain point of like you
know i'm not setting up so many machines in my
life like i just have my macbook set up and that's
it and i guess the main benefit of nix is that
you just you're able to reproduce your environment
very easily which is not something that i do
very often so do you think i could still benefit
from it well i think you definitely can benefit
from a lot of other things about it but um you
know we could tell that would be like an hour
long coverage we could that's two to three hours
right there so i'll leave it at that for now
and we'll we'll talk we'll chat about it later
i think but yeah he definitely would be able
to benefit a lot from it i think yeah hopefully
in the irc we'll chat about it 100 okay now hendrick
has to leave because it's 2 a .m we can keep
here uh tony and josh any anything you want to
say before you uh before you drop hendrick Oh,
it feels I'm being kicked out now. No, no, no,
no, you're not being kicked out. No, stick around,
man. If you want to stay, that's wonderful, man.
But if you're tired and if you have to leave.
Honestly, it's 2 a .m. for me, so I'm out of
here. But man, this was a lot of fun. Thanks
for setting this up, Link. And nice to meet you,
Josh. And also nice to meet you, Tony, in sort
of a more real setting than Discord chat. Yeah.
Lots of fun. I guess I have to look into Nix.
Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Chad. Peace out. I'm
out of here. Bye, Hendrik. Have a good rest of
the day. Take care. That guy sucks. No, I'm just
kidding. No, man. Henry's awesome, man. That's
cool. He stayed up till 2 a .m. to chat about
the O -Word and NixOS and stuff. It was great
stuff. Now, what is this going to become? Before
we get into anything else, I have one question
real quick. Joshua, do you have a compressor
or something that is making it so that your audio
is only going out into the left ear? Or is that...
That might be... Hold on. Let me see. I hear
it in both ears right now. You hear it just in
one, Tony? I can only hear it in my left ear,
yeah. Really? Yeah. And it was also one of your
videos. I know somebody made a comment saying
like, oh, my left ear left the chat or something.
That was my bad. That was my bad because I was
recording in OBS and I recorded in mono instead
of stereo. And I just, yeah. What was the comment?
What was the comment, Tony? My left ear enjoyed
this video or loved this video. Yeah. So you
saw that comment too, Link? I saw it too and
I thought it was pretty funny. Can you guys confirm
though? Or is the chat, can they confirm? Because
I can only hear you in my left ear, man. I don't
know how a link can hear you in both. I can hear
him in both. Can you hear me in both, Tony? Yeah,
both. But I think your headphones might be a
different setup than mine. Does chat say anything?
They say you can hear you fine. Are they wearing
headphones? That's the thing. The reason I'm
paranoid about it is because it happened to you
in a video before, right? So if I go like this,
I can't hear you. I just, so like, this is me
not hearing you. And then this is, this is better.
I feel like I'm just getting chirped. I promise.
I'm not, I promise. I'm not trolling. I promise.
But, um, it's okay. We'll move on. So anyway,
like you were about to say, is this going to
become, yeah. Well, what is this going to become
right now? Is it going to become, uh, you guys
watch the old video, the girls one. So is it
going to become like two nicks? to next aficionados
one one mac os user or what well i wanted to
become yeah i think i'm curious because josh
is here too so i'm actually more curious now
about like um now we can actually 2v1 it's not
a 1v3 i thought it was going to be a 1v3 me versus
three proprietary garbage mac os users but now
it's a 2v1 the script yeah now we have a script
flipped here so i'm going to ask you link i'm
going to interview you i need i need another
mac os user from the chat to join the call so
we can fight this these two demons let me be
let me be let me be linked here let me lean back
here i'm going to run the show here so link let
me ask you i have a lot of questions about this
and i'm very curious about this why is it that
you use proprietary garbage and you're okay with
it let me think because it's awesome it's a safe
space this is a safe space you can say because
it's awesome and it works man But why are you
a vegetarian then? Oh, vegetarian? Are you a
vegetarian as well, Josh? No, right? No. No?
Because if your logic is because it's awesome
and then that's why, I mean, red meat is awesome
and that's why, so why don't you eat red meat?
Yeah, I guess I started with macOS at my previous
job, right? Because you're given a Mac. And I
had Windows back then. I never used Linux. Well,
I used Linux like 15 years ago Ubuntu. I installed
it and I just ran with Ubuntu for a couple months.
And yeah, I didn't go deep there. But at my previous
job, I was given this Mac. So I installed it
and I don't know how I ended up in the Primegence
video. Before the Primegence video, my workflow
was trash. what we were talking about a little
while ago right my big monitor was all over the
place but after watching that video from prime
i had a mac you know that's that was a computer
that i was using at work that mac so i just said
I want to do what Prime does on my computer.
I didn't have any other computer, just that specific
one. So I did it on Mac and I haven't moved ever
since. You know, I haven't had a reason to move
away from Mac. So, yeah. Don't you feel like,
but don't you feel like it's, you're fighting
your operating system? Or is that something you
never have that issue? Like with those Raycast
crap, like all this stuff that like, you know.
you have to have sign into your icloud account
to do anything like why would you need to sign
into an account to use your computer oh you don't
need to it's not like windows i mean i know you
don't need to but but like do you do it to be
let's be i mean you could be honest oh yeah do
you have as i do why do you do that why do it
Doesn't it make everything easier on your computer?
If you just, they make it on purpose, they shove
it down your throat. Like, oh, you have to increase
your storage because otherwise everything's going
to save to a different folder, not your home
folder. And by the way, your home folder is unavailable
by default on Finder because you want to make
it like really hard. You see what I'm saying?
Like, why are you going through the trouble of
fighting all that when you just come join me
on IRC? No, because all of my stuff, well, it's
anyway on proprietary garbage platforms. All
of my stuff is in GitHub. right my notes and
everything but there's some files that i want
to keep in um in my mac like there's some more
documents for homework that i do or basic stuff
like that that i store in icloud that is nice
to have when i log into icloud again in another
computer but i don't use apple services too much
icloud is just a minor part of it yeah but as
they kind of force you into it though i mean
i don't know josh what do you think about that
yeah like The thing about Mac for me has always
been the fighting of the operating system, specifically
when you're just like installing packages, like
just something as simple as that. It's like,
are you sure you want to do this? Are you sure
you want to do this? Really? Really? And then
it's like, why do I have to click anything? I
installed this via homebrew. Why am I having
to click this? Like, you know what I mean? Like
they treat you like a toddler. That's the issue
that I have with Mac. And I've thought about
going to Mac because of the, like the video workflow
and the fact that the hardware is, I mean, it's.
the the amd stuff is catching up pretty quick
but the the hardware for battery life and stuff
is good i'll give you that but it's like i just
don't want to fight this thing to get 70 of the
way that i could on linux i think that that's
the thing with it is that it for me i i've definitely
thought about it but that click of the button
to be like are you really sure i just feel so
stupid When I use the system, then I'm like...
That's how I feel about Debian. But it's the
way that you use it. No, I'm just kidding. I
use macOS in a pretty customized way, and I have
adapted it to my workflow. You do think differently.
My keybinds and all that. But you do have to
fight... with it to be able to do a lot of stuff
like tony says right like the window manager
for it to work perfectly you have to log into
you know like the fail mode we could say like
safe mode and disable some mac os specific stuff
so that it lets you do something at the at a
deeper level you know so that it lets the window
manager do stuff i was going to ask you that
isn't it you buy you have to go in and you have
to like actually disable something yep Security
-wise in the system. Yeah. System integrity protection
is what you have to disable. So that Mac OS allows
your bike to do certain things, right? You do
it only once. You don't have to fight it a lot,
right? You do that once you have your apps installed.
You don't have to fight it that much. I guess
the people that have to fight it the most are
developers, right? Because let's say the new
version that came out right now, macOS 26, the
glassy thing. Have you guys seen it? No. I've
seen memes about it, but I haven't seen it on
device. It changed a lot of stuff. So I guess
if you're a developer, it's not fun to develop
for macOS. Every time they make a change, they
have to find new ways to hack stuff around it.
But me as a user, I don't have to fight it that
much. The pop -ups that Joshua mentioned, yeah.
But it's only one time, right? You install all
of your apps at once. You select allow, you know,
10 minutes after. You're good. As long as you
have a good install script, of course, right?
Look at this. He's got the 1v2 now. He feels
the pressure. He doesn't get to rationalize and
code while he uses it. I was going to give you
a funny anecdote. I installed my girlfriend a
few years back. She had a 2015 MacBook Pro, and
it was the end of the life for it. So I installed
Manjaro GNOME on it. It would have been Intel,
yeah. So I installed Manjaro GNOME on it, and
she was like, okay, there's a couple differences,
but it's pretty good. She got a new M2 Air. She's
been running for a couple of years. And the other
day, she's just like, man, file system on this
computer is garbage. I think I should go back
to Linux. I think I should go back to Godome.
She likes Nautilus better than Mac Finder? Bro,
the issue with the home folder. No, yeah. The
one I just brought up? I do agree. 100 % agree
with you guys. Finder is trash. Do you have a
separate tool that you use? I mean, I guess you
could just use the terminal, but do you have
a separate GUI application you could use for
the file manager on macOS? Yep, yep, yep. What
I do, let me show you. Hold on real quick. Let
me see if I have something here that I cannot
show. Like here. It bugs me to no end when I
use your computer, though, and I'm like, where
are my files, man? Yeah. This is a Unix -based
operating system. What are they trying to do
here? they want to be different that's what think
differently means is they they remove the unix
file system they remove home and they thought
differently this is what i use it's another application
it's called forklift and you get two panes to
move stuff around you know but that's not one
that i use the most i use this other like small
tool that shows up there you guys see that so
When I'm in my browser or something, I just bring
it up with the key and I drag whatever I need
to drag. So it keeps track. What's the license
on Forklift? Why is it not GPL? Oh, no. All of
the stuff that I use is proprietary garbage,
man. All of it. I even pay for a subscription.
There's like a Netflix of apps that is called
Setup. that has a lot of oh no yeah yeah so it's
a hundred percent proprietary stuff what i use
on mac os so so look what you're looking at here
is the file manager right like let's say you
want to change some stuff about like like let's
say you want to add or remove like a feature
to from this oh no that is locked in you cannot
do that's what i'm saying like like wouldn't
you be happier if like you could just go into
the file and change it recompile it from source
and have your own like custom version of a file
manager no no man why would i want to do that
like hold on what do you mean why dude you spent
like a year optimizing your keyboard to hold
s for three how do you okay you have holding
r for three seconds do something special right
what happens when you want to type the word yellow
in spanish type the word and emphasize the r
like you know like and just hold the r key instead
of pressing it let's say you want to like you're
writing a script or something like that right
and you say like oh he said that he said yellow
you know but he said you know he you see what
i'm asking No, I don't understand. Because this
thing was reading the message. The whole time
that you were talking, this super chat was screaming
to my ear, reading whatever. I couldn't hear
you, Tony. So let me just read this. Hold on,
and then I'll go back to you. Linux is fun for
us techies. Cross -development shouldn't be so
irking, but enhance your skill. and multi -platforming
uh all folks use against change yeah old music
is the best so what he's saying is that he his
first question was do you really are you guys
having issues with cross development and he's
basically complaining that cross development
should not be so annoying um and i don't ever
do like i don't do cross div i mean i guess i
am struggling right now with some cross development
but it's within linux it's because i'm making
something for to be packaged in arch and in a
Knicks and in Debian. And it's, it's harder.
It's a lot harder than, than I thought. So that
is annoying, but that's not what he's talking
about. I don't think with Knicks, you can compile
to any sort of, uh, like you can compile to,
uh, arm or exactly. Yeah. Like you can compile
within Knicks to any source, like any destination
story that you want. Right. Yep. So, I mean,
hypothetically i mean i just develop web stuff
i'm uh i'm like well what do they call us a uh
crud monkey a crud monkey now hold on gen x really
appreciate the super chat and also so or see
so that guy that guy is uh he's he's one of my
uh well i don't even know he's one of my friends
at this point now he's in my discord and he's
been helping me work on um this window manager
that I've been working on. And he's like a really
smart guy. He's like a really good developer.
And he actually is talking about Neary WM. He
actually hates Wayland so much that he rebuilt
the main function of Neary WM in his own window
manager for Xorg. And he calls it NWM. And he's
been working on that. So him and I have been
kind of testing each other's window managers.
And yeah, he's a really cool guy. So he wanted
to show you some love with the super chat. Yeah,
I really appreciate it, man. Thank you very much.
That helps a lot. So I guess like, why would
I go through the trouble of, you know, compiling
my application? I'm just a normal guy, man. I'm
just a normie, basically. That has worked on
his Mac config, you know, but compiling stuff
and creating my own window manager. No, that's
not something that I enjoy. And that's actually
one of the reasons why I haven't. even thought
about nix because yeah same stuff same stuff
what do you guys have to say about nix it's a
learning curve for sure like without a doubt
um but i think the benefits it actually is a
paradigm shift in computing when you understand
what it is declarative versus imperative uh package
management just on the surface level is already
huge because I've had to install my system numerous
times in the last eight years, right? Imperatively
going through all the steps to get my system
working properly, even with scripting, even with
any sort of tooling that I've built out, it was
hell. Because there wasn't a source of truth
that I could go to to have everything essentially
just dictated as to what I need. With Nix, everything
is declaratively managed. So nothing changes
outside of my .file, we'll call it, my configuration.
And it's always source controlled. It's always
backed up. There's no remembering things to do.
There's no state management across that versus,
oh, I need to run a systemd service or I need
to start this thing or I need to do... I need
to remember this command, this super obscure
command that I'll never remember to do. It's
all just essentially right there for you in Nix.
Do I recommend people that are switching over
to Linux to start on NixOS? No, because it's
a completely, like there's Linux and then NixOS
is like a paradigm shift away from Linux is what
I would say. Yeah. And to add to that, there's
a lot of people that get frustrated when they
go over, they finally say, you know what, I'm
going to put down Valorant and I'm just going
to sign it off and I'm going to actually just
commit to Ubuntu. I'm going to commit to Linux.
Like I'm done with Windows. And they install
Linux and they install Arch. They go into Arch
Linux. And then a couple of weeks into it, they
update their system and something doesn't work.
And they go, you know what, I'm going back to
Windows. Screw this. With Nix. if you update
your system and something doesn't work you just
literally reboot you read like you can just reload
back to the previous state that did work within
five seconds so that's also another big selling
point and also the dependencies that he was talking
about like let's say you have a package that
depends on another package and this one upgrades
and this one breaks you don't have that with
nix because all of your if you use flakes all
of your dependencies are locked at specific versions
so you're never going to have that problem so
i mean this is through the weeds this is like
extra stuff that people don't that's not level
one type stuff like he was saying but yeah now
for me yeah for me it's like it it's there's
no other os i could use anymore because it solves
so many problems in a holistic way that i'm just
like how had i not been using this for like the
last five years now has it broken for you guys
like because we're just talking about fairy tales
here and rainbows and butterflies right but In
the real world, has it broken for you guys? Be
honest. Has NixOS? Yeah. It broke once when I
opened up a VM and tried to install a marquee.
For some reason, it broke my computer. It blew
up. It started telling you something. Yeah, no.
No, I never had a problem. And, you know, there
may be some issues with certain, like, niche
packages that kind of, like, you know, they break
or whatever. But there's good warning messages.
They tell you what to do and stuff. you know
i don't even use unstable like there's unstable
packages i don't even use them for most things
i use the the stable version of 25 .05 so like
it's actually kind of like the debian in me that's
why i was telling you like you can really have
debian and arch at the same time with nix because
you can have like some of your packages on unstable
and some on like you know the king mode if you
call it that and you just don't have to worry
i never have to worry about it so yeah now i'm
confused about something because I see that people
talk about home manager or whatever. So is it
Nix, an operating system, or is it an add -on
that you can use on any other distro? Can I use
Nix on Debian, or can I use part of it, or how
does that work? Nix is an OS, but Nix is also
a programming language, and Nix is also a package
manager. Like Lisp. Like, okay. It's inception,
bro. So NixOS is NixOS, which is basically just
GNU Linux with some different file system that's
not FSH compliant or whatever. But then it also
has the Nix Package Manager built into it. And
then the Nix Package Manager is something you
can actually even use on proprietary garbage
like macOS if you want. And then Home Manager
is also something you can use on proprietary
garbage like macOS or Debian or whatever. And
so that's agnostic to your OS. But it all is
running the same stuff on the back end. So it's
like, yeah, it's portable, if you will. You know,
you can call it that. But you have Brew, right?
Brew is your package manager. So a lot of people
use Nix for their package manager on Mac. And
I don't really know too much about that because
I've never experimented with it. But now a lot
of people use Home Manager. Like I know one of
your favorite YouTubers, DevOps Toolbox. I think
he uses Home Manager for a while. I have watched
his videos and I end up more confused than when
I started watching the video. it's like because
he went to home manager and then he said you
know what i'm gonna use gnu stow instead of home
manager and then same thing with the yeah i'm
like what the hell is going on here um i get
lost did you just use should i just use mako
to make out a store system or whatever the hell
it is if you become a madman like josh and me
and you embrace like the anti -pattern of making
out of system store links like you'll embrace
home manager i think but uh still without still
bro yeah But what about the shell? What do you
guys use as the shell? Do you use fish? Do you
use, what is it? What else is out there? Cause
I use CSH. That was a jump. I love it. We just,
that's like a Bikram yoga stretch right there.
I thought about it the other day and that's something
that I want to ask Colbert as well. Like what
does he use as the shell? There's so many questions
that I have for him, but that's something that
I want to ask you guys as well. What shell do
you use and why? I use the Born Again shell.
So that's Bash. And you, Josh? Zish. I'm experimenting
with the new shell, though, because I'm a new
male, so I have to try the new shell, you know?
That went over Link's head, I think. I'll explain
it to him later. But I like Bash just because
whenever I log into a Ubuntu or Debian server,
it's going to be running Bash. So I don't want
to ever not know what I'm doing in something
else. You know what I mean? Okay. We have another
super chat here. Let's see. Xode. How do you
say that? Xode? CXode? VS Code? Is it VS Code?
Oh, damn, Tony. That was rude on your part, man.
Why did you say that? NixOS makes it hard to
use your own packages you make. I disagree. He's
referring to like, let's say you make your own
package, like on Arch Linux, and you make like
a AUR script for it to make it or whatever, right?
He's saying it's harder to use on Nix, but I
don't think it's harder. It's just a little bit
more effort at first, and then it's easier to
system lock it. Like he was saying earlier, you
can... ensure that it works on arm technology
and everything like with a flake so i don't think
it's that much harder i think what he's referencing
though and i'm curious you can elaborate this
is he talking about the file system not being
compliant because that's that's probably what
he's getting at i will say one thing is if you're
like if you're close to the hardware i have heard
that nix is a bit of a pain in the ass because
of the file system settings now do i have any
experience with this no but what do you mean
what do you mean If you're developing for embedded
stuff, because of the way that the file system
works, somebody just said that the file system
is a pain, then it becomes something that's a
bit of the pain to kind of navigate around. I
don't have any experience with that because I
don't program in assembly or C. I'm trying to
learn C, but yeah, I think there's a guy - C
is a big C guy, so that's why he's there. He's
C++, but yeah, that's why he probably said that.
there's a there's a youtuber oglo the nerd or
whatever he mentions it too he was he if you
do anything graphics based it becomes uh is it
fhs compliancy right that's the issue is that
because files don't exist where they're supposed
to in an in a unix system then you have a bunch
of loopholes to jump through etc i don't have
experience with that i have a hard time to use
it because it provides this that flash too quick
but he's i think he's having a conversation with
me right now about exactly this phenomenon well
actually it's funny you mentioned oglo because
he i well for me i think there's i mean we can
do this could be this could this should be its
own episode man we could go hours and hours on
this but there's a cool feature called nix vm
it's like you can open a vm on nix so fast that
you can get into an arch or any type of fhs compliant
like tool immediately like nix develop like there's
so many different options to get around that
but yeah distro box yeah that could be distro
box is that the one i think that's right yeah
okay is it distro box or i'm trying to think
of what the what people have said that because
i i don't have experience with this but people
have said it's a good escape hatch for when you
run into that uh compliancy ish is it distro
box I was talking about just Nick's VM, like
just how quick it is to set up a VM. Okay. Josh,
I also want to ask you, because you weren't here
before when we went around the table with these
questions. Briefly, would you mind sharing your
thoughts about single monitor, multiple monitors,
window managers in tiling mode or one application
on the screen? And what are your thoughts on
widescreen monitors as well? Emacs. That's a
good answer. I mean, I see why people use two
monitors. I used to use two monitors, one vertical,
one horizontal in front of me because you have
reference material. I only use one monitor now
because I have seven workspaces that I jumped
through in Hyperland. But honest to God, though,
I'm in Emacs 90 % of the time nowadays. This
is your quote, right? You said, if I can make
it work. in emacs i will and if i can't i'm going
to try to make it work in emacs yes absolutely
yeah you only need one emacs there you go have
you ever thought about emacs tony because to
be honest with you max oh yeah max yeah you use
it a lot i use it a lot yeah um like org mode
is incredible uh i have a website that i use
to for like create tutorials and stuff and like
when i write youtube scripts i use emacs uh to
make org mode files that'll help me like kind
of organize like the script and like to do agendas
and stuff and then also like within emacs i can
open up a shell and do whatever like i use emacs
a lot i mean i use vim inside of emacs because
i use evil mode so you know there's this that
and the other but if i'm just yeah exactly but
if i'm just doing something like for daily driving
stuff i still use vim neo vim but like programming
but for the youtube stuff i do i live in emacs
basically Oh, anything notes related, you do
it in Emacs. If it's notes or like agenda stuff
or anything like any organizational requirements,
stuff like that, like it's going to be done in
Emacs. Because it's a GUI application, right?
Yeah. IRC? In Emacs, yeah, in Emacs. Music? Emacs.
Email? Emacs. I'm not quite that level because
I think it's, I mean, I don't even think, I think
email as a whole. concept we can get into but
email is also like another one of those things
that's like that's below i feel like why do you
need an email and you know to send you like what's
the point of an email address look at see so
dude he's pumping it's pumping appreciate that
donation see so if uh default emacs is all you
need i've thought about emacs guys and i don't
know i feel attracted to emacs because the people
that use emacs the ones that i have known at
least are pretty chill i don't know if you guys
watched the interview that i did with prot but
the c laos he's in cyprus and he's a wonderful
guy i don't know pretty pretty awesome guy joshua
pretty awesome as well and I think the best way
probably... You're forgetting my uncle, man.
Don't forget to give my uncle a shout out. Oh,
yeah, as well. Distro2, bro. Yeah, he's a big
Emacs user. He's pretty cool as well. And I don't
know, is note -taking the best? Because you have
to find a way that is going to make the least
friction between you and the tool. So would it
be... note -related stuff, org mode, is that
the best way? Because I do a lot of Markdown
and EOPM, right? So how should I start? Can you
run code in Markdown? No. You can evaluate code
in org mode. That's your... No, org agenda, dude,
is the sickest thing ever. It's org agenda for
me, yeah. Org agenda is what makes it crazy.
And I have an API script that I use to just like...
get my work tasks and just part like I pipe it
into jq like this json formatter and then I just
write it into an org mode file as a to -do list
and that way I never have to open up like this
stupid gooey app that I my company makes me use
for like tasks I just open up emacs every day
and I can just see all my scripts all my tasks
my to -do list is across like 25 or 30 files
because i include my to -do list in like the
readme of projects i'm working on i've seen that
you document how well you slept and stuff like
you you're going insane with it man i'm curious
about your myers -briggs we could talk about
it off stream though autistic bim is better says
scumer appreciate that donation scumer I can't
send a link, but that guy CISO wrote a guide
on my website called or the Emax guide. I sent
it in the discord, but I can't send it on the
YouTube because it's getting it's getting muted.
Is this a link? I got like five more minutes.
Just just that same here. Pretty much. Yeah,
let's do it. Let's wrap it up. Any final words?
Well, I just want to say thanks to both of you.
Tony, we've been planning this for what? I don't
know for. Not too long for a week. Sylvan was
supposed to join. I don't know what he's up to.
We got an upgrade, dude. It's okay. We got an
upgrade. Yeah, we got an upgrade. Yeah. Appreciate
you joining us, Joshua, and sharing about Emacs
and all that stuff. Let's see. We have another
super chat. Hold on. What does it say here? Emacs,
Josh, and Tony on the list. It's okay. I still
use NeoVim more than I use Emacs. Don't worry,
man. I use both. Just like DistroTube said, I
use both Vim and Emacs. Yeah. So, yeah, that's
it on my side. Any final words, any guys you
want to say to wrap it up? You want to go first,
Tony? I'll just say thanks for setting this up.
And it was awesome to talk about everything.
And I really think people should just look into
the funding of Omarki before installing it and
see kind of where that goes. I encourage you
to do your own research and see kind of what
that's, why that's being AstroTurfed. And that's
probably, that's pretty much like the main, That's
going to be on the highlights. Tony didn't kill
himself. Yo, exactly. What's that joke? I don't
get it. It's a Jeffrey Epstein reference. Oh,
okay. They're going to come after him now that
he's exposed to funding. Look at this. He's pumping,
dude. Yeah, man. he's a bit dude see so it's
one of my new like like he's like i i would say
he's a viewer of mine but he's just a friend
dude he's just one of my friends at this point
we just like talk all the time about c c plus
plus rust zig like we're zigzagooners you know
what i'm saying all right and what about you
josh oh thanks for for well thanks for inviting
me on last minute i was watching the stream and
commenting on it you're like you wanna join i'm
like all right let's do it on the fly on the
fly man Yeah, use Nix, use Emacs. Come join me
on IRC. And do some marching. Oh no, that was
not right. All right, guys. Are you getting paid?
What's going on with that? All right, guys. Thanks
for showing up. Talk to you. Thank you. Until
the next time. Yeah, man. All right. Let me see
if this works. Okay, so the chat can hear us.
We don't know if they can hear you still, but
we're going to confirm in a little while. Let
me see in Twitch. We have Tony there. Hey, Tony.
What's going on? Can you hear me? Yep. I'll level
the audio right now. Linux users are later than
Mac users, except Vimithy. Vimithy, I don't know
if Vimithy even remembers that. We have the call.
you guys have you guys have him on um snapchat
or whatever the kids are using these days i don't
know what they use man i'm thinking i was thinking
about wearing a hat for this but like instead
i just used some hair gel to go the other way
with it uh -huh so now i look less bald so i
think we're good like this because when i did
this interview with the linux cast i went like
this way with it so i had this like it just looked
like i didn't look that good so i'm like you
know what i'm just gonna go the other way with
it and so now we just don't need the hat So you
have to decide where to point it to, right? So
it covers there. So it covers the front bald
spot or whatever? Uh -huh. Why is my face so
big? Okay, I'm going to make our faces the same
size because I can't make it smaller because,
yeah. That's what she said. Yeah. Let's see.
Hold on. Where is Tony? What's going on, Henry?
Nice to meet you, man. yes nice to meet you in
sort of person i guess yeah it's crazy i feel
like we've talked so much yeah yeah definitely
it's like we've been knowing each other forever
yeah exactly okay henry's volume is a little
bit low let's see you talk uh for a little while
henry yes let's go how's the volume okay i'm
gonna fix it here hold on yeah should i just
keep talking Yes, please, if you can just keep
talking for a little while. I don't know what
to say. We can read something. What's the Declaration
of Independence in Spain or Germany? That's a
very good question. Do you guys memorize something
like that in sixth grade? No, I don't think so.
Like a historical document? We had to do that
in sixth grade here. Right, so can you still
recite it? we hold these that's what i did last
time we hold these truths to be self -evident
that all people are created equal that they're
endowed by their creator with certain unalienable
rights you know that among these rights um are
rights such as life liberty the pursuit of happiness
etc but the point is like these are all unalienable
the whole point is we learned that in eighth
grade or whatever just like yeah i'm here for
tony and his random proprietary garbage we already
have people in the chat love it yeah now in germany
did you did you guys learn anything like that
like um do you guys in high school like did you
guys learn any kind of really important historical
documents like that or no yes definitely i just
can't recite them right now okay i'm so curious
i'm gonna make you bigger that's what she said
let's see you're a little bit to the left side
tony are you able to center do you can you move
your camera or it's fixed because if i put you
in the middle there you see what i'm talking
about a little bit more There. I'm going to put
you right there. That works, yeah. You can see
my fake background, my home gym. That's obviously
Primogen background type shit. The Primogen vibes,
right? Actually, he has a yoga bowl, right? I
think I got a yoga bowl. Let's see if we can
do it. Now, let's move to Henry, okay? Let's
do the Primogen yoga bowl. I know you wanted
to show off your background, Hendrik, but I'm
just going to make us the same size. Hendrik
Lamar? Did you just call him Hendrik? It's Hendrik,
right? Yeah, that's my real name. Oh yeah, that's
cool. They call you Henry, is that right? Yeah,
I just go by Henry in English because it's easier
for most people to pronounce. Hendrik Lamar?
Yeah, basically. Hendrik Duckworth? I love it.
Now, Tony, you sound pretty good. That's because
you have the same microphone as your dad, right?
My uncle, yeah. Your uncle, yeah, sorry. He's
not my dad. He's not your dad? Who's your dad?
DHH? Richard Stallman, I guess. I don't know.
Yeah, that makes sense. Let's see. Is anyone
on Twitter? Is any of you guys on Twitter? Because
in theory, I'm also sending this to Twitter.
Why do you always say Twitter, by the way? You
mean Twitch, right? When you said that? No. Are
you actually streaming to Twitter? Yeah. X and
Twitch. Yep. Okay. i was always curious like
why do you always say twitter and i thought it
was a type like a verbal typo yeah i'm an old
man i refuse to call it x it's nah no i'm cool
with that i'm cool with dead naming twitter or
whatever but i just didn't know like if you were
talking about twitch because i only see on the
screen it says you got twitch and youtube going
i don't know yeah it's going to twitch and it's
going to um twitter or x yep now rumble and everything
you got But let's see if you, did you guys hear
your screens as well? I do have my screen shared.
Let me see if you can just see it though. Hold
on. Okay. I'm going to try it right now. Let's
see. Let's see. I'm going to switch to them.
So this is, who is this? This is Tony. Okay.
Yeah. Looks good. Looks pretty good. Now let's
take a look at Henry Hendricks screen. Okay.
Yo, look at the wedge term. Yo, we got the class
right there. i'm excited for this look at the
new tmux hype look at that super minimal deep
loaded look at that oh yeah no plugins no plugins
for the theme well you can use plugins but they're
not necessary to create the look love it okay
i think all of your audios are good um where
the hell is sylvan do you have a link to this
or can i just let me just go to your channel
hold on i don't need you to give me a link be
funny if he started the live stream now on his
channel That would be hilarious. What would be
more funny is if he thought it was a different
time because of the same thing that I got with
the user error. It was user error, though. It
could be. Or maybe he's taking a shower or something
and he got excited. Yeah. Well, we can just start
without him and do like a little bit of a three
-way segment if you want until he joins. Yeah,
that's good with me. Or we can give him some
time if you want. It's your call. Yeah, let's
give him, what time is it? 3 .09, or I guess
it'd be 4 .09 your time. Yeah, let's wait five
minutes. It's okay. We have chat here anyway,
right? Yeah, let me look at the chat. This, this.
My screen. I hope that you guys are audible in
all the different scenes. This is my screen.
Can you guys hear me there? Yeah, I'm going to
test one, two, three. I can hear me and you on
that scene. Oh, here? What about you, Hendrik?
Can you hear us? Yes, perfectly. Okay, I think
you brought up your volume a little bit too high
now, Hendrik. Okay, how's it now? Oh, it's good.
good i think i brought it up here up a little
bit are you having a beer tony uh no it's a coffee
man i'm not as cool as you i'm having water though
yeah i have that too just in case you never know
but uh water i mean for you it makes sense because
it's like what nine something 10 p .m or something
like that out there no it's like midnight for
me are you serious yeah that's baller dude yeah
i'm a bit tired honestly but um you know i thought
fuck it uh there's not always going to be an
opportunity to do this kind of thing if you had
coffee right now that you wouldn't be able to
sleep right yeah exactly so i tried to uh do
a lot of caffeine around the afternoon and i
hope that i'll be able to sleep later but uh
let's see about that yeah i might need to jump
a bit earlier today uh like around maybe 2 a
.m for me like maximum two hours Just because
otherwise I'm going to be completely fried tomorrow
at work and not be able to do anything. Oh, yeah,
that's fine, man. Oh, yeah, we're live on Twitter.
I just checked right now as well, and we're live.
If Silvan doesn't join, we're going to do it,
the three of us. He can join later. I don't even
know if he remembers if it's today or what, but
it's fine. I'll just ping him on Discord. I'm
sure you guys already pinged him, right? I'll
set you up. It seems... that he's offline what
is going on with that neary i don't even want
to show that on stream but what's up with that
neary video you sent bro where did you find that
corn hub the one i sent yeah where'd you find
that man like did you just search youtube for
neary and it just popped up yeah exactly you
know when um for chat also to to follow along
like before we we went live link Link sent the
agenda for what we're going to talk about today,
some bullet points. And one of them is Niri,
the tiling window manager. And I had no idea
what it was, so I looked it up on YouTube. And
I don't know if you can share that right now,
but I found a video which supposedly explains
what it is, but it was kind of like an AI girl
or AI woman that explains what it is, but extremely
poorly without showing it. bad lip sync i have
no idea where everything was off yeah yeah like
who makes these videos who benefits from this
i i don't know but i i feel like if if the marketing
for that was supposed to be going for that we
could just hire an actress right i mean i don't
know what that was about yeah but um our ai overlords
let's see take a look at this guys this is something
that i've been working on today okay you're back
into the workflow engineer hype yeah loading
windows never ends it just never ends man it's
just uh it never freaking do you have covet on
speed dial or like every time he updates like
do you get rss feed when he makes an update to
kitty and then you just get the latest in a snap
or a flat pack uh the only thing that i was concerned
or interested in was sessions and he just sent
me an email but other than that i don't keep
track of other what other features ghosty has
you know