WEBVTT

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Hello, everyone. My name is Protesilaos, also

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known as Prot. In this video, I'm not sure what

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I will talk about exactly, but we will see. So

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we will talk with Christian and figure it out.

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This is how I start my day, basically. I take

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a look at my agenda and depending on what I have

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to do, I will organize my day accordingly. I

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will see a message. For example, I am reading

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my email. Of course, I can reply to those emails

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from here. I can... set a date of when I wanted

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to do it. So let's say I will do it today at

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21 hours. And you will see it's right here. That's

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what you hear everywhere nowadays. You know,

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if I watch a movie on Netflix in a series, I

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see drugs being recommended everywhere, like

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marijuana. That's very common. And I used to

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do it a lot in the past. I don't do anymore.

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So what are your thoughts on alcohol and overall

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substance abuse? If you're listening to this

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as a podcast, remember that it was originally

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recorded as a video. If you're not following

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along, you can go to my YouTube channel. My username

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is Linkarso. And if you want to support me to

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keep this podcast going, you can donate in Ko

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-fi. I'm going to leave a link in the description.

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All right. So let's get started with this chapter

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then. So Prat, we're live. Really appreciate

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that you're here. Thank you very much for your

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time. Just to give a little bit more context

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to the people that is watching this, you know,

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so I did a NeoVim versus Emacs video a few days

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ago and a name showed up in the comments, not

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only in the video comments, but also in the Reddit

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comments. You should... bring Pratt. You should

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talk to Pratt, Pratt, Pratt, Pratt, Pratt. A

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lot of people brought it up. And I was like,

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what are these guys talking about? Because I

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don't know too much about Emacs, right? So they

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mention your name in a lot of different places,

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you know, like if it's Emacs related, you should

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talk to Pratt. So I reached out. You were kind

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enough to agree to this interview. So thank you

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very much. How are you doing, by the way? I'm

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fine, thank you. And thank you for inviting me.

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And I saw some of your readers. I didn't know

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about you either because of the non -overlapping

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work that we do. And I watched some of your readers

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and I thought, oh, this is very good. High quality

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and also interesting things. And I'm like, yeah,

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of course, I'm on board. I am doing well. Last

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week, we had wildfires here and they were too

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close for comfort. But the situation is under

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control and everybody is back to normal and so

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am I. So yeah, that's good. Were you affected

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by the wildfires? I watched your video, the one

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about the wildfires. Me and my wife also watched

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other videos to see how the situation was there.

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It was pretty bad, right? The closest they reached

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was 300 meters, give or take, away from here.

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So I had to leave my place and get to higher

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and safer ground. And eventually I came back

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at night. So I basically left for almost a full

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day. Okay. But yeah, not to dramatize it, it

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would have been much worse. So it was just an

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inconvenience in the end. It didn't affect you

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directly, right? No, no. It was just that for

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those two days where the wildfires were raging,

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I didn't get any sleep. And I just had to walk

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under the heat. But yeah, in the grand scheme

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of things, that's not a problem. Oh, and what

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did you do? You were carrying your backpack,

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your dogs and just walking? Or what did you do

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for those? Yep, yep, yep. So the backpack, puppies

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in arm and the other two dogs, the older ones

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were following along. And yeah, we went further

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away from here in successive steps. It's not

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like I couldn't go like 10 kilometers in one

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go carrying the puppies. But we went in successive

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smaller journeys until we reached the point where

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we were about 10 kilometers away at the spot

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over there from where I could see the valley

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here. And as soon as I saw that things were under

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control and the wind was shifting, I was like,

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okay, time to go back. Okay, cool. So you have

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four dogs, two big dogs and two small ones, right?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, correct, correct. So the older

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dogs are about 10 years old each, and the puppies

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are two months old. Oh, okay, okay. Now, can

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I ask you a favor, Prat? Would you mind saying

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your intro, the one that you do on every video?

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Hello, everyone. My name is Protesilaos, also

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known as Prot. In this video, I'm not sure what

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I will talk about exactly, but we will see. So

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we will talk with Christian and figure it out.

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Awesome. Awesome. Let me bring up our names here

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because I have our names. Where did they go?

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And while you are looking for that, just to say

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that that intro, I never thought of it. I never

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thought it through. It's just something I would

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always do to introduce myself to people because

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my full name is kind of difficult to remember

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or pronounce. And so the first thing I would

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tell people is like, hey, hello, and I would

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shake their hand. My name is Prodecila, also

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known as Prod. Yeah, it's a little bit tough

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to pronounce for someone that is not where you're

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at. So you're in Cyprus. Where is that? Would

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you mind sharing a little bit about Cyprus for

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someone that doesn't have an idea at all? So

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I also have it here on the Google Earth, so I

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can share as well the screen if you prefer. Okay.

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So let's see it. Where is it? No, it's here.

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So you are in Central America over there and

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I'm zooming out. And now I am traveling to the

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east, to the crossroads of three continents.

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Here is Europe, here is Africa, here is Asia.

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And if we zoom in here to the eastern Mediterranean

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Sea, we find Cyprus. And I am, if we zoom into

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Cyprus further, we see this large mountain range.

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So this is where I live, somewhere here. Okay.

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And where are you? Are you originally from Cyprus?

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No, originally I am from Greece, which is that

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country over here. And in Cyprus, there are Greek

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Cypriot people and the Turkish Cypriot people.

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So where I live, there are a lot of Greek Cypriots.

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It's the Greek Cypriot parts. And why did you

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end up in... It's a complex political situation,

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basically. Oh, yeah? And why did you end up in

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Cyprus? Mm -hmm. So I was basically not a good

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student when I was growing up in Greece. And

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I didn't care about going to a university there.

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I wasn't paying attention. And eventually I was

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disqualified. But I had to go to university because

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the career plan I was originally pursuing, that

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of becoming a football player, didn't pan out.

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I had an injury, a serious injury, so I had to

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quit. So I was like, oh my goodness, from football

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player to scientist is quite the U -turn. So

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I went to register for a private college and

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there was a good option in Cyprus. So I was like,

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okay, we'll go to Cyprus. And that's how I ended

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up here originally. I did my studies in Cyprus

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and I was working and studying. I was studying

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European politics, economics and law. While I

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was studying, I started my website, where I was

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writing about the economic crisis, you may remember

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the financial crisis post -2008. And I was writing

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about that, specifically with a European focus.

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And long story short, a member of the European

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Parliament, so in Brussels, started reading my

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blog, at some point contacted me, and eventually

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I went to Brussels to work without even... having

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first finished my degree. And so the last six

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months of my degree, I had to do them via browsers,

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via email correspondence. So I was working there.

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So it was because of your blog post then, right?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was writing and

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I knew all these things about the European Union.

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So the politician thought that I would be a good

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addition to his office to help there. And yeah,

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that's how it went. So I went to Brussels and

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then when I decided that I didn't like the world

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of politics, I was like, I have to go somewhere

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where there are mountains. So I decided to come

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to Cyprus because I had visited the mountains

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here and I was like, ah, this is very nice. So

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yeah, someone in the comments, you probably didn't

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see it. Roman said that he has visited. these

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mountains. I'm not sure it's Cyprus or I would

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assume he's talking about Cyprus. Roman, I don't

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know where Roman is. He's another YouTuber as

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well. I have had him on my channel too. Yeah.

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And so what are you then? Like, because you do

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philosophy. I really like your philosophy videos.

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You know, I enjoy them because I'm just trying

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to have a better life. I have a pretty wild life

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in the past. So, you know, have changed and all

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that, trying to stick to better values, we could

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say. But what are you then? Are you a philosopher?

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Are you a programmer? Are you a little bit of

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everything? Do you mind sharing that with us?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think a little bit of everything

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would be appropriate, though. If I had to say,

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I would say philosopher. But I wouldn't really

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cling on to the description. Because I could

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just say, you know, I'm just a regular guy in

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the mountains who has an opinion about stuff

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and who occasionally writes programs and writes

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articles on other issues. Because the thing is,

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one general feature of our world is that you

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sort of identify with the label you attach to

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yourself. And so you say, I am a philosopher

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or a programmer or whatever. And now you have

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to sort of perform in a manner that is consistent

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with whatever the expectations are for that label.

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And so let's say if you are a philosopher, you

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are expected to be reading books all day or have

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a certain polite way of talking. I don't know

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what. Whereas I don't want to have those expectations

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bestowed upon me. I'm like, you know what? I'm

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just my own person. And if a philosopher is an

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easy way for us to communicate, that's fine.

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But I am not committed to it. No. Yeah. And if

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you say you're an Emacs maintainer, everyone

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will be expecting for you to maintain Emacs packages

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the whole time. And if they see you doing a philosophy

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video, they'll be like, bro. What are you doing

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with your life? Like, you should be doing Emacs,

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right? Exactly, exactly. Okay. And you have a

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YouTube channel, right? Is that where people

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can find you? Like, what is the medium that you

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use the most? Is it your blog post? Is it your

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YouTube channel? Like, what is... The main source.

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So the most, the most important, like the main

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medium I have is my website. Okay. So protesila

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.com. It's the platform that I have maintained

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since 2011. It's how I got to the European Parliament,

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actually. And I have been writing ever since.

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There are over 1 ,500 articles there, many of

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them long form. And I write on a number of issues.

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On YouTube, I mostly do emacs and philosophy.

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Sometimes I also talk about my life here. But

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on my website, I will really write about all

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sorts of other issues, including politics, as

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well as comments on everyday issues, emails I

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may respond to that are worth talking about in

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public, as well as comments I may have on pieces

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of art. And things of that more general nature.

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The thing is, there isn't a audience per se for

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all of these. So what I do is publish distinct

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RSS feeds for each of them. RSS slash Atom feeds.

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So anybody who is interested can follow whatever

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they want. So the main thing is the website then.

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And why did you decide to get started with YouTube?

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When I started, I think it was 2016, I wanted

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to do some videos on politics, on the topics

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I was working on at the time, because fundamentally

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I was living away from an English -speaking world.

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I was living in the mountains of Cyprus, and

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I wasn't practicing my English -speaking skills.

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And I was searching for a pretext to do exactly

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that. So I started publishing there, not that

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frequently. I think I started publishing more

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frequently circa 2018, maybe, where I did some

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videos about Vim, T -Max, and the Linux -related

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setup I had at the time. Again, in the interest

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of practicing my English. And eventually I discovered

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D -Max and then I kept doing videos from there.

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Okay, okay. Now, you mentioned that you were

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a football player, you were in politics. Do you

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also do programming? Did you study programming

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or? So growing up, I was basically the opposite

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of a typical nerd. So I wasn't introduced to

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any computer device, nothing. I never had any

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experience with programming or mechanical engineering,

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whatever, any kind of related field, nothing.

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So I was just a kid playing football and doing

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that sort of more sporty life. And at some point

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I also discovered motorcycles and I was having

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a lot of fun with that. But nothing related to

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computers. Eventually, around 2012 or something,

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I got my first laptop at work. I was in Brussels

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at the time. And I started learning magical things

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such as Alt -Tab and Ctrl -C, Ctrl -V. And I'm

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like, wow, you can do that on the computer. This

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is so amazing. It's so productive. And eventually

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I discovered Linux. I think it was the summer

00:16:05.429 --> 00:16:09.309
of 2016 when I first switched to Linux. And from

00:16:09.309 --> 00:16:13.570
then on, I started writing very, very little

00:16:13.570 --> 00:16:19.269
small programs and learning by doing. But I was

00:16:19.269 --> 00:16:21.990
never introduced to programming in any formal

00:16:21.990 --> 00:16:25.110
capacity. Oh, so you did it by yourself then?

00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:29.850
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And at the time, I started

00:16:29.850 --> 00:16:33.250
by writing shell scripts, which calling them

00:16:33.250 --> 00:16:35.409
shell scripts is already giving them too much

00:16:35.409 --> 00:16:38.600
credit because it would literally be... One shell

00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:40.899
command after the other without any control flow.

00:16:41.779 --> 00:16:48.480
Okay. And you got started with Linux then. What

00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.779
are your thoughts on the two other operating

00:16:50.779 --> 00:16:56.279
systems, Windows and macOS? So I used Windows

00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.299
a little bit when I was in university. I was

00:16:59.299 --> 00:17:01.379
using it at the labs there where I would have

00:17:01.379 --> 00:17:08.509
to type like this my assignments. But I don't

00:17:08.509 --> 00:17:10.369
have an opinion about Microsoft because I've

00:17:10.369 --> 00:17:12.750
never used it at home. So I don't really know.

00:17:12.910 --> 00:17:16.049
About the Mac, it's the laptop I had. I thought

00:17:16.049 --> 00:17:20.430
it was a very good operating system. But I haven't

00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:24.109
used it recently to be able to have a more informed

00:17:24.109 --> 00:17:29.109
or a more attentive view of its features. At

00:17:29.109 --> 00:17:32.390
the time, I had a positive impression. Okay.

00:17:33.390 --> 00:17:36.230
Like if I were to use it now to give you a concrete

00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:38.690
example, I would be interested to see, okay,

00:17:38.769 --> 00:17:42.430
what is the developer experience like? Like how

00:17:42.430 --> 00:17:45.829
is it to set up a package manager and get all

00:17:45.829 --> 00:17:49.470
these Git repos that I need to work and set up

00:17:49.470 --> 00:17:51.750
all these dependencies and so on and so forth,

00:17:51.950 --> 00:17:56.190
build Emacs from source, et cetera. Okay. Yeah.

00:17:56.450 --> 00:17:59.930
Linux and Mac is what people that... do development

00:17:59.930 --> 00:18:03.910
use, right? It's one of those two. Some people

00:18:03.910 --> 00:18:07.349
are forced to use Windows. I don't have too much

00:18:07.349 --> 00:18:09.470
of experience with Windows, but I used Windows

00:18:09.470 --> 00:18:13.150
in the past for a long time. I'm actually using

00:18:13.150 --> 00:18:15.769
Windows at my current job right now. Unfortunately,

00:18:16.190 --> 00:18:19.109
I don't like the operating system. I feel it

00:18:19.109 --> 00:18:21.670
too clunky, you know, just to switch apps. I

00:18:21.670 --> 00:18:24.680
don't know. I don't know. It's different. And

00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:28.400
since it's not Unix based, you know, starting

00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:30.920
from there, since I spent all of the day in the

00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:33.740
terminal, we don't have a good start there with

00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:37.859
Windows. So it's a little bit more difficult.

00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:43.779
Yeah. But do you prefer, like between Mac and

00:18:43.779 --> 00:18:47.779
Linux, do you have a preference? I cannot give

00:18:47.779 --> 00:18:52.869
you an... educated opinion on Linux because I

00:18:52.869 --> 00:18:56.269
only use Linux on servers, right? All of my different

00:18:56.269 --> 00:19:00.109
servers, I run Debian on them. I don't have a

00:19:00.109 --> 00:19:02.970
GUI there, right? So I just SSH into the servers

00:19:02.970 --> 00:19:07.569
and I just manage stuff that way. So that is

00:19:07.569 --> 00:19:10.470
awesome. That works extremely well for me. I

00:19:10.470 --> 00:19:13.609
love Linux in that way, but I have not installed

00:19:13.609 --> 00:19:16.730
it on a desktop computer and used it, you know,

00:19:16.730 --> 00:19:20.329
day to day to see what benefits I would have,

00:19:20.410 --> 00:19:23.289
what drawbacks. Of course, privacy is a huge

00:19:23.289 --> 00:19:27.410
benefit and why a lot of people use it. So that's

00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:32.890
in my plans. I want to install Linux and daily

00:19:32.890 --> 00:19:36.690
drive it to have a better opinion about it because

00:19:36.690 --> 00:19:39.289
I cannot say anything about it at this point.

00:19:39.950 --> 00:19:43.809
What distribution do you use? What distro, Linux

00:19:43.809 --> 00:19:47.589
distro? So right now I am on Debian, Debian stable.

00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:51.299
On this computer, the desktop, before I switched

00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:55.160
to Debian, I was on Arch Linux for about four

00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:58.960
years. And before that, it was again Debian and

00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:01.160
Arch. Those are the two distros I have used.

00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:03.660
And what are your thoughts on Arch or why the

00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:07.900
move to Debian? I think Arch is an excellent

00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:10.579
distro. I don't get the people who say Arch breaks

00:20:10.579 --> 00:20:12.500
all the time. Like, I don't understand how you

00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:15.589
can break it. I haven't managed to do that. Of

00:20:15.589 --> 00:20:17.630
course, if you are careless, you can break anything

00:20:17.630 --> 00:20:20.670
for sure. But I mean, if you do the basic things

00:20:20.670 --> 00:20:24.430
right, it's rock solid. I really like Arch. The

00:20:24.430 --> 00:20:26.849
thing, though, is that if you don't have a use

00:20:26.849 --> 00:20:30.569
case for getting the latest and greatest, you

00:20:30.569 --> 00:20:33.289
are not really gaining anything from Arch. All

00:20:33.289 --> 00:20:36.809
you are doing is you are just installing gigabytes

00:20:36.809 --> 00:20:39.869
upon gigabytes of new updates, which change literally

00:20:39.869 --> 00:20:45.690
nothing to your workflow. Okay. Whereas on Debian,

00:20:45.789 --> 00:20:48.369
to give you an idea of what I need here, I have

00:20:48.369 --> 00:20:53.069
Emacs, which is my main application, then some

00:20:53.069 --> 00:20:56.150
peripheral applications like a web browser and

00:20:56.150 --> 00:20:59.630
the image viewer and video player, that sort

00:20:59.630 --> 00:21:03.269
of thing, for which I don't care what version

00:21:03.269 --> 00:21:06.150
they are. My video player, I don't care. It just

00:21:06.150 --> 00:21:11.480
works. The web browser just works. Unless there

00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.059
is a very good reason to get a newer version

00:21:14.059 --> 00:21:16.640
of something, I don't need it. And I haven't

00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.440
had such a reason. Makes sense. I have been thinking

00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:24.700
about that, which distro to use. Everyone tells

00:21:24.700 --> 00:21:26.980
me Arch. Well, not everyone, but most people

00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:31.200
tell me to use Arch. But I'm kind of on the same

00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:35.039
boat as you. I care about stability and I care

00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:39.019
about just if something works, I just hope it

00:21:39.019 --> 00:21:42.269
to work, you know. for a long time. I don't want

00:21:42.269 --> 00:21:46.690
to be updating stuff if I don't need to. So I

00:21:46.690 --> 00:21:50.930
don't know. Maybe try and out -arch for the experience.

00:21:51.109 --> 00:21:53.730
But if I'm going to use it as a daily driver,

00:21:54.269 --> 00:21:58.670
Debian, I like Debian. I don't know. I do like

00:21:58.670 --> 00:22:00.470
Debian. On the servers, I don't know how it is

00:22:00.470 --> 00:22:02.710
in the desktop. People complain that the packages

00:22:02.710 --> 00:22:05.569
are quite old. Do you have any issues with that?

00:22:07.470 --> 00:22:09.490
Well, strictly speaking, that's true. Of course,

00:22:09.509 --> 00:22:12.509
they are old, but that's not a problem in itself.

00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:17.569
Like I use an old Firefox, but I load the page

00:22:17.569 --> 00:22:20.710
just the same. So what exactly does a new Firefox

00:22:20.710 --> 00:22:23.390
bring to the table? Of course, if you are really

00:22:23.390 --> 00:22:26.750
interested in the updates that Mozilla releases

00:22:26.750 --> 00:22:29.970
every four weeks or whatever, then yes, you need

00:22:29.970 --> 00:22:32.890
an alternative. But if you just want to open

00:22:32.890 --> 00:22:35.509
a website, then usually you are good with the

00:22:35.509 --> 00:22:40.099
old. I have a question. The only thing that I

00:22:40.099 --> 00:22:42.660
would care about probably is security updates.

00:22:42.859 --> 00:22:44.720
Let's say that there's a critical, you know,

00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:47.480
security vulnerability. How does that work? Those

00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.740
are delivered. Yeah, those are delivered in a

00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:53.299
timely fashion. So basically on Debian, you can

00:22:53.299 --> 00:22:57.480
enable so -called unattended upgrades or updates,

00:22:57.660 --> 00:23:02.750
which basically are security patches. Awesome.

00:23:03.049 --> 00:23:06.410
And you don't even need to do the upgrade manually.

00:23:06.490 --> 00:23:10.490
It just happens. Okay. Do you use OBS for your

00:23:10.490 --> 00:23:17.549
videos? Yeah. You install it from a repo or do

00:23:17.549 --> 00:23:21.049
you use a flat pack? I'm not sure. I'm not sure,

00:23:21.210 --> 00:23:23.690
to be honest, because I haven't done it in a

00:23:23.690 --> 00:23:27.630
while. I would guess that it's the flat pack.

00:23:27.890 --> 00:23:31.480
Flat pack. Okay. Yeah, I would guess so. And

00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:33.700
yeah, good that you mentioned that. For a few

00:23:33.700 --> 00:23:36.779
apps that you want them to be self -contained

00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:40.720
and to be at the cutting edge, you just go with

00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:44.400
FlatCook. Okay, so you do use some FlatPaks here

00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:49.319
and there then? There is OBS, there is the Signal

00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:53.319
Desktop client, I think, and maybe one more,

00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.799
maybe the Telegram client, I think, and that's

00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:01.269
it. Oh, okay, okay. Now, would you mind sharing

00:24:01.269 --> 00:24:03.730
with us what the difference is? Because I get

00:24:03.730 --> 00:24:05.910
them confused all the time. What's the difference

00:24:05.910 --> 00:24:08.829
between open source and free software? Are they

00:24:08.829 --> 00:24:14.490
the same thing? In some respects, they are the

00:24:14.490 --> 00:24:17.750
same thing. In practical terms, from an end user

00:24:17.750 --> 00:24:20.769
perspective, you get access to the code, you

00:24:20.769 --> 00:24:23.410
have the liberty to modify it and to share it.

00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:27.160
In a very practical sense, you cannot tell the

00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.240
difference. Where the differences begin to emerge

00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:35.380
is on matters of emphasis, rhetoric, and thus

00:24:35.380 --> 00:24:39.039
ideology, you may say. So open source, the open

00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:42.140
source movement, tries to be more, let's say,

00:24:42.259 --> 00:24:44.940
business friendly. So they are like, hey, there

00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:48.539
is like the MIT license, for example. It's a

00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:51.700
permissive license. And what it basically means

00:24:51.700 --> 00:24:55.180
is that, hey, dear Apple, let's say, here is

00:24:55.180 --> 00:24:59.640
some source code. You can use it in your proprietary

00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.440
software. You can use it on your phones, on your

00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.359
computers. And all you need to do is say that,

00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:09.079
hey, this package is also part of the packages

00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:13.579
we share. So there they are just trying to accommodate

00:25:13.579 --> 00:25:18.500
and to play nicely with... parts of the world

00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:22.299
where software freedom is not a priority. Whereas

00:25:22.299 --> 00:25:26.920
a free software package will be like, hey, here

00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.880
is some source code. Here are the concomitant

00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:35.759
freedoms you have for it. And here is your, meaning

00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.380
you who will get the software, here is your commitment

00:25:39.380 --> 00:25:45.109
to abide by the same rules. And so the free software

00:25:45.109 --> 00:25:49.650
movement will tend to emphasize the freedom aspect

00:25:49.650 --> 00:25:53.650
of it. So we have the freedom and you should

00:25:53.650 --> 00:25:57.309
also preserve and respect that freedom. And you

00:25:57.309 --> 00:26:00.329
will see that epitomized in the GNU General Public

00:26:00.329 --> 00:26:04.390
License, for example, where they give you certain

00:26:04.390 --> 00:26:08.410
liberties and they demand that if you modify

00:26:08.410 --> 00:26:10.990
the software and share it, you share it under

00:26:10.990 --> 00:26:16.190
the same terms. Okay, okay. And so Apple cannot

00:26:16.190 --> 00:26:20.470
take, let's say, Emacs and package it together

00:26:20.470 --> 00:26:24.009
with a proprietary Apple Emacs or whatever and

00:26:24.009 --> 00:26:28.809
share it like that. Okay, so the goal is to keep

00:26:28.809 --> 00:26:33.690
that software free and open source for the rest

00:26:33.690 --> 00:26:40.250
of the time. Yes, that's exactly it. And part

00:26:40.250 --> 00:26:44.279
of this is... The users of free software, because

00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:47.039
of course it's not just code and program, it's

00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.799
also the people, right? So the users of free

00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:54.160
software will tend to speak more about these

00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:57.680
virtues. So they won't just tell you, hey, open

00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.859
source is better because you can fix the bugs,

00:26:59.980 --> 00:27:02.240
because you can look at the source code, which

00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.480
of course is true, you can do that. But they

00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:07.200
will tell you that free software is better because

00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:10.970
you are empowered. You use it in a way that makes

00:27:10.970 --> 00:27:14.809
sense to you. There won't be some operator, like

00:27:14.809 --> 00:27:19.190
a proprietary actor, who can arbitrarily change

00:27:19.190 --> 00:27:23.210
the rules and now you have no freedom. Okay.

00:27:23.750 --> 00:27:26.470
Okay, got it. And so depending on who you talk

00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:30.609
to in the free software space, you will get this

00:27:30.609 --> 00:27:34.890
impression that there is a political activism

00:27:34.890 --> 00:27:40.769
component to their computing. Yeah, feels like

00:27:40.769 --> 00:27:45.730
it sometimes. Yeah. Okay. And do you have any

00:27:45.730 --> 00:27:53.630
thoughts on supporting open source? People that,

00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:57.650
you know, do open source. What are your thoughts

00:27:57.650 --> 00:28:01.130
on that? Like supporting open source maintainers,

00:28:01.170 --> 00:28:03.150
basically. Do you have any thoughts or anything

00:28:03.150 --> 00:28:05.950
you want to share about that? I think it's a

00:28:05.950 --> 00:28:09.750
very good idea. And even if you approach this

00:28:09.750 --> 00:28:13.789
from a free software perspective, it's consistent

00:28:13.789 --> 00:28:16.470
with the principles of free software because

00:28:16.470 --> 00:28:21.130
free software is not about price. It's about

00:28:21.130 --> 00:28:24.829
liberty. So they say libre software, another

00:28:24.829 --> 00:28:27.750
way of saying it. Or they use this phrase, free

00:28:27.750 --> 00:28:32.220
as in speech, not free as in beer. But the point

00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:36.440
is that we give you the liberty to use software

00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.700
in a way that is liberating and empowers you.

00:28:41.019 --> 00:28:45.059
But we can also sell together with that, let's

00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:49.039
say, a support contract or what I do, some coaching

00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:52.980
or whatever. Something that doesn't infringe

00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:56.000
your freedoms, doesn't limit your freedoms, but

00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.059
also provides a stream of income for the programmer.

00:29:01.789 --> 00:29:04.309
Now, this is just... Yes, I would say I'm in

00:29:04.309 --> 00:29:07.890
favor if there are arrangements for that, yes.

00:29:08.069 --> 00:29:12.289
Okay. This is just my personal perception. I'm

00:29:12.289 --> 00:29:16.130
not talking in your behalf or anything, but I

00:29:16.130 --> 00:29:18.569
have the feeling, you know, that some people,

00:29:18.589 --> 00:29:21.150
not all of them, some people in the open source

00:29:21.150 --> 00:29:23.940
community think that... This is just a one -way

00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:27.339
relationship. You as the maintainer has to give,

00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:29.500
give, give, give, give because it's open source

00:29:29.500 --> 00:29:35.420
and do not expect anything in return. So I don't

00:29:35.420 --> 00:29:38.720
know. It's a tough and delicate topic to talk

00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:42.079
about because open source maintainers, you know,

00:29:42.099 --> 00:29:46.759
they have to eat. They have to live somewhere.

00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:51.160
Most of them or some of them have families to

00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:55.000
maintain. So they cannot dedicate themselves

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:58.460
to open source in full. They have to work for

00:29:58.460 --> 00:30:01.940
a company to be able to, you know, live, basically.

00:30:02.859 --> 00:30:07.119
So, I don't know, that's just my perception of

00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.619
it, you know, that you as a manager have to give,

00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:14.019
give, give, and not expect anything in return.

00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:18.420
Yeah, I also have the same impression. It happens

00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:24.289
a lot. And I think it is up to the maintainers

00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:27.609
to a certain degree to educate their users to

00:30:27.609 --> 00:30:32.190
try to foster a community. And I would say to

00:30:32.190 --> 00:30:36.609
basically have a face because for as long as

00:30:36.609 --> 00:30:41.509
you are a person behind a pseudonym, I don't

00:30:41.509 --> 00:30:44.289
have a relationship with you. You might as well

00:30:44.289 --> 00:30:48.299
be an AI bot these days. I don't know. I cannot

00:30:48.299 --> 00:30:51.799
feel emotionally connected with you. So if you

00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:54.220
tell me, hey, my kids are starving, I need money

00:30:54.220 --> 00:30:57.519
to feed them, I don't feel anything. But if I

00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:00.019
know you, like who you are, what you are doing,

00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.420
and I see what kind of person you are, then yes,

00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:07.940
I am more inclined to help. And I think people

00:31:07.940 --> 00:31:11.680
will connect more with that human aspect of it.

00:31:13.150 --> 00:31:16.569
Because otherwise I don't see a way of working

00:31:16.569 --> 00:31:19.230
around this issue. Because we have these big

00:31:19.230 --> 00:31:22.430
projects like Emacs. Emacs is a massive program

00:31:22.430 --> 00:31:26.829
that has been around for half a century. And

00:31:26.829 --> 00:31:30.349
it is, to me, it is a travesty that a program

00:31:30.349 --> 00:31:35.430
like Emacs is underfunded and understaffed in

00:31:35.430 --> 00:31:39.009
that regard. And you might say underappreciated

00:31:39.009 --> 00:31:41.210
because, of course, if you are not paying...

00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:43.720
If you are not helping the people who maintain

00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:47.039
it, then maybe you are not showing your appreciation

00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.759
enough. And of course, multiply that for everything

00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:53.779
else that we use. Yeah. I guess most of the Emacs

00:31:53.779 --> 00:31:57.119
maintainers have to work for a company. And in

00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:59.640
some of the free time that they have, you know,

00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.440
they can contribute it to Emacs because it's

00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:04.960
a tool that they use, of course, and they love.

00:32:05.019 --> 00:32:08.420
So they want Emacs to be better. But imagine

00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:12.900
how... could be or any other open source project,

00:32:13.220 --> 00:32:15.940
right? If it would get the love that it deserves,

00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:19.339
right? If maintainers could say, okay, I'm not

00:32:19.339 --> 00:32:22.319
going to work for a big company because I'm getting

00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.640
what I need to support this tool. I don't know.

00:32:27.339 --> 00:32:31.900
Could be a different, you know, way of operating

00:32:31.900 --> 00:32:34.599
in the open source community. We wouldn't rely

00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:36.980
too much on big companies because sometimes,

00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:40.420
I don't know, Projects have to rely on support

00:32:40.420 --> 00:32:43.180
from big corporations because they don't get

00:32:43.180 --> 00:32:48.579
any other support. So it's tough, right? Yeah,

00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:50.980
it is exactly that. And then, of course, you

00:32:50.980 --> 00:32:54.420
get into this conundrum where in order to support

00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:57.700
free software and freedom, let's focus on free

00:32:57.700 --> 00:32:59.440
software, but it applies to open source, right?

00:32:59.500 --> 00:33:02.279
In order to support free software, you have to

00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:06.359
earn income potentially contributing to non -free

00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:09.970
software. Which, of course, raises the question,

00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:13.789
why not try to have both free software and a

00:33:13.789 --> 00:33:17.589
living wage, some source of income that is viable?

00:33:18.210 --> 00:33:21.990
Yeah. Okay. It's not easy, of course, but I think

00:33:21.990 --> 00:33:25.829
it's worth trying. Yeah. But what is, I think,

00:33:25.950 --> 00:33:32.349
important is to remove the stigma that exists

00:33:32.349 --> 00:33:36.390
whenever some open -source free software maintainer

00:33:36.730 --> 00:33:41.789
asks for money. I don't think that is a bad thing.

00:33:42.170 --> 00:33:47.630
And I don't think it helps when we conflate freedom

00:33:47.630 --> 00:33:52.569
of software with free stuff, gratis, like free

00:33:52.569 --> 00:33:55.349
of charge. I don't think that helps anyone. Yeah.

00:33:55.470 --> 00:33:58.490
And as a maintainer, I guess that you feel bad

00:33:58.490 --> 00:34:03.170
asking for money when you should not. You know,

00:34:03.309 --> 00:34:07.309
it's... I don't know. Yeah. People don't approach

00:34:07.309 --> 00:34:11.090
it like to open like, hey, I need money. Can

00:34:11.090 --> 00:34:13.789
you please just support? No, it's like, hey,

00:34:13.929 --> 00:34:17.190
they don't even mention it to avoid getting in

00:34:17.190 --> 00:34:19.929
trouble because people get offended if you, you

00:34:19.929 --> 00:34:24.349
know, ask for support. Yeah, it's exactly that,

00:34:24.469 --> 00:34:28.849
because there will be backlash from users and

00:34:28.849 --> 00:34:31.550
then you as a maintainer have an incentive to

00:34:31.550 --> 00:34:34.489
remain silent. so that you don't have to deal

00:34:34.489 --> 00:34:37.349
with trouble. And then, of course, that's not

00:34:37.349 --> 00:34:39.650
a good situation. It's a lose -lose situation.

00:34:40.730 --> 00:34:46.909
Yeah, I agree. Now, I want to get to know Emacs

00:34:46.909 --> 00:34:50.070
a little bit better, you know, because I want

00:34:50.070 --> 00:34:52.869
to hear your thoughts on another tool to start

00:34:52.869 --> 00:34:55.909
with. Have you used NeoVim or just Vim? What

00:34:55.909 --> 00:34:59.610
are your thoughts on those two? I was using Vim,

00:34:59.710 --> 00:35:05.409
and then at around maybe 2018, NeoVim came along,

00:35:05.610 --> 00:35:10.010
or at least came into my radar, and I used it

00:35:10.010 --> 00:35:13.050
for a while. It seemed good, but I couldn't see

00:35:13.050 --> 00:35:16.369
the upside of it at the time. So I never used

00:35:16.369 --> 00:35:19.329
NeoVim in earnest. To me, it felt like, okay,

00:35:19.389 --> 00:35:22.449
Vim, but maybe the future of Vim because it will

00:35:22.449 --> 00:35:24.989
be maintained. But at the time, it was still

00:35:24.989 --> 00:35:29.550
basically the same as Vim. Looking now at the

00:35:29.550 --> 00:35:33.130
ecosystem, what I understand as an outsider is

00:35:33.130 --> 00:35:37.210
that basically NeoVim took the source code of

00:35:37.210 --> 00:35:40.869
Vim and infused it with the spirit of Emacs.

00:35:41.070 --> 00:35:44.150
And what I mean by this is that basically they

00:35:44.150 --> 00:35:46.809
were like, how can we use this platform? How

00:35:46.809 --> 00:35:49.469
can we use this editor as a computing platform

00:35:49.469 --> 00:35:52.909
so that we can eventually have a more integrated

00:35:52.909 --> 00:35:55.769
setup where we do more and more things inside

00:35:55.769 --> 00:35:59.929
of Vim? And you know, of course, what you can

00:35:59.929 --> 00:36:02.610
do with it, but the idea is to have something

00:36:02.610 --> 00:36:05.690
that you control more and more, and it's not

00:36:05.690 --> 00:36:09.849
just a generic text editor. Yeah, you can now

00:36:09.849 --> 00:36:13.969
view images in U of M. That's something that

00:36:13.969 --> 00:36:18.190
only Emacs could do, right? We don't have variable

00:36:18.190 --> 00:36:25.880
heading sizes like in Emacs, right? I don't know

00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:27.699
if you've heard of him, but there is a terminal

00:36:27.699 --> 00:36:32.099
creator named COVID. He created the Kitty terminal.

00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.519
He's working on a variable fund size protocol.

00:36:35.739 --> 00:36:38.599
So that could come to near him as well in the

00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:43.320
future. But you haven't used it, right? You just

00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:47.900
switched to Emacs and stay there. And are you

00:36:47.900 --> 00:36:51.000
staying in Emacs for the rest of your journey?

00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:56.239
I don't know. It's really comfortable here. For

00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:59.920
me, basically, if I were to switch away from

00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:04.940
Emacs, it would effectively be to another Emacs.

00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:08.840
And what I mean by this is not Emacs, the name

00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:13.380
of the program, but Emacs, the paradigm of computing.

00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:19.199
And Emacs, qua paradigm of computing, is this

00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.940
idea of... integrating more and more parts of

00:37:22.940 --> 00:37:27.639
your workflow into a setup that is consistent.

00:37:28.099 --> 00:37:31.579
So you will program it with one programming language.

00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:34.920
Whatever applies in one part of your setup will

00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.380
apply to other parts, such as your theme, your

00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:40.420
fonts, whatever custom functions you have written

00:37:40.420 --> 00:37:43.980
to manipulate text, all that. And eventually

00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:47.039
you get a more integrated computing environment.

00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:52.099
Okay. So if there is a better Emacs in that regard

00:37:52.099 --> 00:37:55.219
than GNU Emacs, yeah, I'm on for it. Why not?

00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:58.019
Okay. Like an integrated environment, something

00:37:58.019 --> 00:38:00.400
that allows you to do basically everything, right?

00:38:01.659 --> 00:38:06.079
Even if it's not everything, literally, it should

00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:10.760
give you the tools to extend it in a way that

00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:15.099
is seamless, in a way that... you extend it as

00:38:15.099 --> 00:38:18.679
if there is no real distinction between the core

00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:22.380
and the extensions. Because that's basically

00:38:22.380 --> 00:38:26.699
the spirit, the paradigm of GNU Emacs and of

00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:29.900
other Emacs in the past, which is like, there

00:38:29.900 --> 00:38:32.980
is a distinction between core and packages, which

00:38:32.980 --> 00:38:35.980
is just conventional. Like in terms of code,

00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:40.179
it's the same. Okay. So if you have that kind

00:38:40.179 --> 00:38:44.599
of seamlessness, I'm all for it. Basically, what

00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:47.239
I'm saying is, don't give me a tool with a limited

00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:50.039
API and say, hey, here is your extensible editor.

00:38:50.260 --> 00:38:54.139
No, that's not extensible, my friend. That's

00:38:54.139 --> 00:38:58.199
not what we have in life. Okay, okay. Now, there's

00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.320
different ways to work in Emacs, right? I come

00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:04.000
from Neovim, and the way that I'm used to working

00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.099
in Neovim is with space. I do... I don't know,

00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:11.480
there's SpaceMax, I think, in Emacs, right? SpaceMax,

00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:15.440
there's Doom Emacs, there's the traditional way

00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:17.900
of doing things. I don't know much about Emacs,

00:39:17.900 --> 00:39:20.539
so I just want to ask you, right? I think that

00:39:20.539 --> 00:39:23.099
the traditional way is with control, and people

00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:25.860
complain that using control a lot hurts your

00:39:25.860 --> 00:39:30.460
hands and all that. So as a person that doesn't

00:39:30.460 --> 00:39:34.920
know about Emacs at all, What would you recommend

00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:38.559
someone? Because most of my audience is in Neovim.

00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:41.760
I guess, I'm not sure, but I would assume most

00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:44.000
of them are in Neovim or are interested in Neovim.

00:39:44.659 --> 00:39:48.280
Pretty rare, you know, just a few of them are

00:39:48.280 --> 00:39:52.559
in Emacs probably. But as a Neovim user that

00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:56.940
is used to doing space for keymaps, right? What

00:39:56.940 --> 00:39:59.619
would you recommend or what would you say is

00:39:59.619 --> 00:40:02.920
a good start? So to avoid friction, right? Because

00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:06.239
if it's different from what you're used to, it's

00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:09.420
like, man, I'm not going to get used to this.

00:40:09.619 --> 00:40:14.699
I'm going back to what I had. Well, of course,

00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:18.039
if you add the qualifier, the condition to avoid

00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:20.239
friction, then of course the answer is you have

00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:22.920
to use something as close to NeoVim as possible,

00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:26.960
which would limit you to Doom, Emacs, and Friends,

00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:32.050
basically. So it would be... a flavor of Emacs

00:40:32.050 --> 00:40:36.469
that incorporates a Vim emulation layer. We call

00:40:36.469 --> 00:40:40.769
it evil mode. And then does things in the way

00:40:40.769 --> 00:40:43.090
you have described. So space would be a prefix

00:40:43.090 --> 00:40:45.949
key map, and then everything is nested under

00:40:45.949 --> 00:40:48.070
that. And otherwise you have the familiar Vim

00:40:48.070 --> 00:40:52.650
keys to move around and to manipulate text. If,

00:40:52.730 --> 00:40:56.809
however, you take a broader view, which is...

00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:01.139
what can a Neovim user learn from Emacs? Not

00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:03.559
necessarily to stick with Emacs, but to bring

00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:05.739
it back to Neovim so that you can broaden the

00:41:05.739 --> 00:41:09.579
Neovim experience. I would say, give Emacs a

00:41:09.579 --> 00:41:12.179
fair try. Like, try it for a month. Of course,

00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:15.460
provided you have that option, right? I'm not

00:41:15.460 --> 00:41:18.619
saying, hey, abandon your job, forget about your

00:41:18.619 --> 00:41:21.199
productivity, and now go and become an Emacs

00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:22.920
monk for a month. That's what will happen. I'm

00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:26.929
not saying that. Yeah, but... assuming you have

00:41:26.929 --> 00:41:30.429
the option, like give it a full month, like try

00:41:30.429 --> 00:41:34.190
Emacs for a full month and try to think in terms

00:41:34.190 --> 00:41:38.309
of Emacs, like try to start from scratch or with

00:41:38.309 --> 00:41:42.110
a very basic config and then see, okay, how does

00:41:42.110 --> 00:41:46.090
Emacs do the equivalent of what Vim does? And

00:41:46.090 --> 00:41:49.809
then try to learn the Emacs ways. And then I

00:41:49.809 --> 00:41:52.510
think you will start appreciating what Emacs

00:41:52.510 --> 00:41:54.880
has to offer. Whether you stick with Emacs or

00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:57.860
not ultimately doesn't matter because it will

00:41:57.860 --> 00:42:00.219
give you a different perspective, which I think

00:42:00.219 --> 00:42:03.659
then you can bring back to me a bit. But just

00:42:03.659 --> 00:42:08.500
to say on the point of the control and all that,

00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:12.719
it is true, though this is also true if you use

00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:16.219
a regular keyboard with Vim keys, because depending

00:42:16.219 --> 00:42:19.320
on how you are typing, you might still be twisting

00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:24.119
your pinky to hit the shift or tab. or depending

00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:26.199
where you put the escape key, if it's on the

00:42:26.199 --> 00:42:29.519
caps lock or up in the corner, you may still

00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:32.860
be doing awkward motions with your fingers and

00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:36.099
your hands. So if you really care about ergonomics,

00:42:36.219 --> 00:42:39.159
I think the solution is not Vim keys per se.

00:42:39.619 --> 00:42:43.780
It's a proper keyboard setup, which might also

00:42:43.780 --> 00:42:46.460
have Vim keys on top. But you really have to

00:42:46.460 --> 00:42:49.539
think in terms of a custom keyboard or something

00:42:49.539 --> 00:42:52.670
along those lines. And would you recommend someone...

00:42:52.670 --> 00:42:55.170
I believe you use a custom keyboard, no? Me?

00:42:56.030 --> 00:42:58.389
Yeah, I believe you have a custom keyboard. Like,

00:42:58.449 --> 00:43:00.869
you don't use a regular keyboard. I have one

00:43:00.869 --> 00:43:03.349
of these. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Lit ones, yep.

00:43:03.630 --> 00:43:07.710
Yeah. Yeah, and would you recommend someone then

00:43:07.710 --> 00:43:11.730
starting with traditional Emacs, like Control

00:43:11.730 --> 00:43:18.170
or... Tryout Distro, or just use it the default

00:43:18.170 --> 00:43:22.750
way, like... I would say use it, like, as I said,

00:43:22.769 --> 00:43:26.369
if you want no friction, et cetera, you use Doom

00:43:26.369 --> 00:43:29.730
Emacs, Space Max. There is now Kickstart Emacs

00:43:29.730 --> 00:43:33.769
or Kick Emacs, I forget. From that experience,

00:43:34.050 --> 00:43:37.289
if you use one of those, do you lose on Emacs?

00:43:37.389 --> 00:43:40.130
Like, do you miss something? What are your thoughts

00:43:40.130 --> 00:43:44.969
there? Potentially, yes. Not because they are

00:43:44.969 --> 00:43:47.469
not Emacs, not because they obfuscate things.

00:43:48.340 --> 00:43:51.059
But because you have that sense of familiarity,

00:43:51.179 --> 00:43:57.139
which doesn't inspire in you an ethos of looking

00:43:57.139 --> 00:44:01.179
around. It doesn't inspire in you that search

00:44:01.179 --> 00:44:03.960
that you would otherwise have to do. You're like,

00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:05.900
okay, this is like Vim. I've been using this

00:44:05.900 --> 00:44:07.739
the whole time. I don't need to look up anything.

00:44:08.059 --> 00:44:11.380
So I don't think it will help you learn anything

00:44:11.380 --> 00:44:15.539
that is Emacs specific in that regard. But otherwise,

00:44:15.659 --> 00:44:18.750
of course, it's still Emacs. If you go and you

00:44:18.750 --> 00:44:20.869
look into the source code, you will be looking

00:44:20.869 --> 00:44:23.690
at the list code. If you modify it, you will

00:44:23.690 --> 00:44:26.150
have to write some Emacs list code and so on.

00:44:26.349 --> 00:44:29.269
So it's still the Emacs, fully fledged Emacs,

00:44:29.389 --> 00:44:32.449
but because of the different expectations you

00:44:32.449 --> 00:44:35.989
bring with you, I think those will inhibit you

00:44:35.989 --> 00:44:41.369
if your goal is to explore Emacs. Okay. Did you

00:44:41.369 --> 00:44:43.590
remap your control key or something? How do you

00:44:43.590 --> 00:44:45.429
use it? Or you have it at the default place?

00:44:46.670 --> 00:44:50.190
So when I was using a regular keyboard, I was

00:44:50.190 --> 00:44:54.329
using control on the caps lock. But I would say

00:44:54.329 --> 00:44:57.030
I don't think this is actually good advice. Like

00:44:57.030 --> 00:45:01.570
it is in the sense that you can hit control with

00:45:01.570 --> 00:45:06.409
your left pinky and then let's say N and P with

00:45:06.409 --> 00:45:09.269
your right hand, right? But if you are doing

00:45:09.269 --> 00:45:13.079
anything like control X, control C. Like, imagine

00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:15.239
a QWERTY layout, right? Control, X controls.

00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:17.460
I don't think it's a good idea to use the same

00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:20.400
hand for both. Like, in terms of ergonomics,

00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.199
you would need to use the opposite modifier key,

00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:26.900
so the control on your right -hand side, and

00:45:26.900 --> 00:45:29.980
activate whatever is on your left -hand side.

00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:35.159
So, yes, remap control to caps lock, but remember

00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:40.159
that... pressing and holding two keys with one

00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:43.400
hand is not a good idea for ergonomics. So you

00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:48.360
have control in both hands, right? Okay. Have

00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:53.500
you heard about Home Rule mods? Yes, yes. I tried.

00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:57.280
So, of course, I'm also on a custom keyboard

00:45:57.280 --> 00:46:00.840
now. What keyboard is it? So this is the Iris

00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:07.099
keyboard from Kibio. Kib .io. Revision 8, I think.

00:46:07.340 --> 00:46:09.539
Can you show it? I haven't seen it. How many

00:46:09.539 --> 00:46:13.119
keys does it have? It's fewer than yours, but

00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:16.920
not... Wait, where are we here? It's 42 keys?

00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:21.360
46, I think, maybe. Yeah, I have to count. Okay,

00:46:21.639 --> 00:46:26.659
okay, okay. Something like that, yeah. I could

00:46:26.659 --> 00:46:30.250
go for fewer, but I was playing it safe. So I

00:46:30.250 --> 00:46:32.170
was like, let's have an extra column. Let's have

00:46:32.170 --> 00:46:36.269
an extra row just to be sure. Yeah, I'm just

00:46:36.269 --> 00:46:39.329
using 40 keys because this one has 80 keys. It's

00:46:39.329 --> 00:46:43.190
called the Glove 80, has 80 keys. But now I found

00:46:43.190 --> 00:46:46.349
a keyboard mapper that I can use in macOS and

00:46:46.349 --> 00:46:49.050
Linux. It's called Canada. So I'm just using

00:46:49.050 --> 00:46:52.489
40 keys on my MacBook keyboard, only 40 keys

00:46:52.489 --> 00:46:55.510
and on the Glove 80. So I want to switch to a

00:46:55.510 --> 00:47:02.409
42 key. And have you found any candidates or

00:47:02.409 --> 00:47:05.789
not yet? The corn, that's one that I want to

00:47:05.789 --> 00:47:09.449
try. That one has 42 keys, right? 42 keys. I

00:47:09.449 --> 00:47:11.849
believe there are a couple of variations of that.

00:47:11.889 --> 00:47:13.849
I think there is one with six columns and one

00:47:13.849 --> 00:47:16.250
with five, or maybe I am conflating it with another

00:47:16.250 --> 00:47:18.750
one. Yeah, I don't know too much about mechanical

00:47:18.750 --> 00:47:21.769
keyboards, to be honest. But there's a guy in

00:47:21.769 --> 00:47:24.329
my Discord that tells me all the time to go with

00:47:24.329 --> 00:47:27.070
the... There is, I think it's called, but that

00:47:27.070 --> 00:47:32.889
one has like 34 keys, 36. And I would miss the

00:47:32.889 --> 00:47:34.929
rows that you get on the sides, right? For the

00:47:34.929 --> 00:47:38.610
pinky, like where tab in caps lock is in shift,

00:47:38.809 --> 00:47:41.090
because I'm using shift now, you know, the dedicated

00:47:41.090 --> 00:47:44.929
shift key. So I don't think I could go lower

00:47:44.929 --> 00:47:47.489
than 40 because I would need to rearrange a lot

00:47:47.489 --> 00:47:51.230
of stuff. Yeah, the thing is, because you mentioned

00:47:51.230 --> 00:47:53.250
home row mods, the thing is that you have to

00:47:53.250 --> 00:47:55.849
basically have all your modifiers on the home

00:47:55.849 --> 00:47:59.769
row. The fewer the keys, the more you have to...

00:47:59.769 --> 00:48:03.269
Yeah, and there's a delay. I had shift in the

00:48:03.269 --> 00:48:06.230
modifier in the home row. I had it there, but

00:48:06.230 --> 00:48:08.210
I couldn't stand the delay because there's a

00:48:08.210 --> 00:48:10.469
small delay that you have to get used to with

00:48:10.469 --> 00:48:13.210
home row mods. And I couldn't get used to it

00:48:13.210 --> 00:48:15.690
with shift because I use shift too often. So

00:48:15.690 --> 00:48:19.000
I just moved it back to... And what are your

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:23.420
thoughts on homeroom mods? You already mentioned

00:48:23.420 --> 00:48:27.360
it. The delay annoys me to no end. I cannot stand

00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:32.139
it. And also the fact that unless you are really

00:48:32.139 --> 00:48:36.780
precise, you have false positives. Like I would

00:48:36.780 --> 00:48:40.340
frequently activate a control when I didn't mean

00:48:40.340 --> 00:48:44.039
to or not activate it when I wanted to. That

00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:48.159
sort of thing. So with this keyboard... I am

00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:51.179
relying on the thumb cluster, so where that red

00:48:51.179 --> 00:48:54.940
key is at the bottom. So with the thumb cluster

00:48:54.940 --> 00:48:58.139
and then everything is there, basically. Okay,

00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:03.079
yeah. I set my timeout for the modifier keys,

00:49:03.380 --> 00:49:07.599
the control, alt, and the other one for macOS

00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:12.000
to 300 milliseconds. The delay is higher because

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.940
usually people use 200, right? So the delay is

00:49:14.940 --> 00:49:17.659
higher, but I... I have less false positives,

00:49:17.780 --> 00:49:21.179
but I have to wait longer. So I have to get used

00:49:21.179 --> 00:49:24.760
to it. I don't get fully used to it, but I'm

00:49:24.760 --> 00:49:28.719
getting there, I think. Yeah, the thing is, like,

00:49:28.780 --> 00:49:30.619
because you mentioned it now, if you are using

00:49:30.619 --> 00:49:34.199
Vim keys, chances are you don't do a lot of editing

00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:37.320
that involves control art and the command key.

00:49:37.619 --> 00:49:40.699
So I guess you can tolerate that delay. But of

00:49:40.699 --> 00:49:42.800
course, shift, as you said, yeah, that would

00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.880
be annoying. But in Emacs, you cannot stand that

00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:49.940
delay in control, I would assume, right? Because

00:49:49.940 --> 00:49:52.880
you use the modifiers a lot there. Yeah, exactly.

00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:56.159
So, yeah, it's a compromise. Like you have to

00:49:56.159 --> 00:50:00.099
really set your priorities. And for me, the priorities

00:50:00.099 --> 00:50:05.239
are typing rather than having fewer keys. Yeah.

00:50:05.900 --> 00:50:09.500
I have six thumb keys on this keyboard, you know,

00:50:09.500 --> 00:50:13.230
but I... I'm just using two. And let me explain

00:50:13.230 --> 00:50:15.849
why. Because on my laptop keyboard, right? When

00:50:15.849 --> 00:50:18.369
you're on the laptop keyboard, your thumb can

00:50:18.369 --> 00:50:21.730
only reach two modifiers, right? Because you

00:50:21.730 --> 00:50:23.670
cannot reach the other two. They would be like

00:50:23.670 --> 00:50:27.690
too far away. Like it's unnatural. So I'm using

00:50:27.690 --> 00:50:31.389
just two. So on my keyboard, I'm just using two

00:50:31.389 --> 00:50:34.650
thumb keys. One of them is space on each side

00:50:34.650 --> 00:50:38.530
and the same modifier. one modifier on each side,

00:50:38.690 --> 00:50:42.269
which is backspace and enter, right? The same

00:50:42.269 --> 00:50:46.869
thing on my laptop keyboard. So I don't want

00:50:46.869 --> 00:50:50.110
to add more modifiers because I want the experience

00:50:50.110 --> 00:50:52.849
to be the same on the external keyboard and on

00:50:52.849 --> 00:50:56.610
the laptop keyboard, right? So they're exactly

00:50:56.610 --> 00:50:59.809
the same. Because, of course, on the laptop,

00:50:59.869 --> 00:51:03.760
you have the longer space bar. Yeah. I don't

00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:05.900
think it makes sense. If they would make it shorter,

00:51:06.139 --> 00:51:09.260
you could have access to those modifiers, right?

00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:12.460
So spacebar here, one modifier, and the other

00:51:12.460 --> 00:51:15.880
set of modifiers. At least I think it would be

00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:19.780
better. Yeah, glass and split in the spacebar,

00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:23.679
that would be very good. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Now,

00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:28.000
so try the traditional Emacs, then it's a recommendation

00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.739
that you have. I also noticed that you use...

00:51:32.409 --> 00:51:35.929
light theme and we live in a dark theme world.

00:51:36.190 --> 00:51:42.610
Why is that? To be a contrarian. No, no, no,

00:51:42.630 --> 00:51:47.349
this is not the real answer. The reason is that

00:51:47.349 --> 00:51:52.110
I am in a well -lit space here. And if I use

00:51:52.110 --> 00:51:55.230
a dark theme, basically it will harm my eyes.

00:51:56.010 --> 00:52:00.050
So I use a light theme during the day and a dark

00:52:00.050 --> 00:52:04.590
theme when it's darker. So I also develop a lot

00:52:04.590 --> 00:52:07.269
of themes, by the way, for Emacs. And I have

00:52:07.269 --> 00:52:10.349
equal numbers of light and dark themes. So I

00:52:10.349 --> 00:52:13.389
don't know how many, but more than 20. Would

00:52:13.389 --> 00:52:17.889
you mind just showing the theme that you use

00:52:17.889 --> 00:52:22.730
or your favorite themes? Is that... Yeah, sure,

00:52:22.849 --> 00:52:25.670
sure. Let me... One second, where are we? So

00:52:25.670 --> 00:52:28.630
do you see my screen? Let's see. Yep, I see it

00:52:28.630 --> 00:52:33.989
now. Okay, okay. So let me show you what I have

00:52:33.989 --> 00:52:37.570
here. So this is my light theme. This is the

00:52:37.570 --> 00:52:40.949
Modus Operandi theme. What we are looking at

00:52:40.949 --> 00:52:45.010
here on the right -hand side is the man page

00:52:45.010 --> 00:52:47.650
output, which I use to lower my screen resolution.

00:52:47.809 --> 00:52:51.489
So we can dismiss that for now. And what we see

00:52:51.489 --> 00:52:55.510
here is an org buffer. And we see the headings

00:52:55.510 --> 00:52:59.590
with varying font sizes that you already mentioned.

00:53:00.289 --> 00:53:07.289
And maybe I can go and show some code. It doesn't

00:53:07.289 --> 00:53:10.070
really matter what it is, but let's see here.

00:53:10.150 --> 00:53:13.750
Do we have a D -fun? Yeah, this is some code

00:53:13.750 --> 00:53:17.110
as well. The idea with this theme is that it

00:53:17.110 --> 00:53:21.800
is designed for high contrast. Maximum legibility.

00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:26.860
And the contrast, concretely, is a minimum of

00:53:26.860 --> 00:53:32.460
7 to 1. And that's what we see over here. I can

00:53:32.460 --> 00:53:35.199
switch to another theme. This is a variation

00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:37.840
of it. By the way, let me enable line numbers

00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:41.360
and you see this. So this is a variation of the

00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:46.139
same theme. It has... A light earth colored background.

00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:52.340
And let me now switch to the dark ones. So there

00:53:52.340 --> 00:53:57.139
are also what you see here, Tritanopia and Deuteranopia.

00:53:57.260 --> 00:54:01.280
These are for color blindness. I want to demo

00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:03.119
these now. Let me switch to a dark theme. This

00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:07.360
is the regular dark theme. Same idea, high contrast.

00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:12.260
And again, 7 to 1, the minimum contrast ratio.

00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:17.219
And this one is a variation of it, which has

00:54:17.219 --> 00:54:22.920
a more dark blue sky kind of vibe to it. But

00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:26.679
as I said, during the day, it's this one over

00:54:26.679 --> 00:54:30.500
here, Modus Operandi. I have plenty of other

00:54:30.500 --> 00:54:34.039
themes, more colorful ones. So I can go and show

00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:38.619
you if you want. It's here. Of course, let me

00:54:38.619 --> 00:54:41.139
show you some. I won't show you the entire collection.

00:54:42.300 --> 00:54:47.119
But here is some pink one. Let me do some green

00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:52.920
one like this. Let's do some yellow witch one

00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:57.980
like this. And their dark counterparts. So as

00:54:57.980 --> 00:55:01.400
I said, there are lots of them here. So let's

00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:05.019
do this, for example, for a dark one. Let's do

00:55:05.019 --> 00:55:08.400
the... Actually, this would be good, yeah. Another

00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:13.019
dark one. And lots of, lots of different styles.

00:55:14.219 --> 00:55:20.880
So yeah, I develop all these. And the idea with

00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:24.840
them is to be legible. Let me switch back to

00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:28.559
my light theme for now. So the idea for them

00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:31.820
is to be legible. The module themes, what you

00:55:31.820 --> 00:55:34.719
are seeing here, they are also built into Emux.

00:55:35.019 --> 00:55:39.780
So starting with version 28. So I heard, People

00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:44.159
recommending those themes a lot. Modus, Operandi,

00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:46.900
and Modus, what is it, Vivendi, you said, right?

00:55:47.179 --> 00:55:49.800
Correct, correct, correct. So Operandi is the

00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:53.500
light one, Vivendi is the dark one. And just

00:55:53.500 --> 00:55:56.199
to say, through the spirit of Emacs, they are

00:55:56.199 --> 00:56:04.960
highly customizable, like a lot. Oh, okay, okay.

00:56:06.989 --> 00:56:09.949
What would you like to show us about Emacs? Like

00:56:09.949 --> 00:56:13.210
someone just starting, right? What would you...

00:56:13.210 --> 00:56:16.190
I have a question for you. I have a question

00:56:16.190 --> 00:56:21.429
before that. In one of your videos, I noticed

00:56:21.429 --> 00:56:26.190
that you said that you take your notes in plain

00:56:26.190 --> 00:56:30.769
text and only revert to org when necessary. So

00:56:30.769 --> 00:56:34.449
would you mind explaining a little bit on the

00:56:34.449 --> 00:56:39.809
reasoning behind that? So the idea is the following.

00:56:39.989 --> 00:56:42.849
When you are taking notes, it's very easy to

00:56:42.849 --> 00:56:47.409
distract yourself with matters of styling, with

00:56:47.409 --> 00:56:50.170
matters of markup. And this happens when you

00:56:50.170 --> 00:56:52.010
write, where you're like, ah, this should be

00:56:52.010 --> 00:56:55.329
bold. Let me make this slanted text. There should

00:56:55.329 --> 00:56:59.929
be a code block here. I don't like the bullet

00:56:59.929 --> 00:57:01.949
list to be with dashes. Maybe I should have the

00:57:01.949 --> 00:57:04.820
plus sign. All these kinds of considerations,

00:57:05.260 --> 00:57:08.599
which of course are useful when you are writing

00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:10.980
something that you will publish. But when you

00:57:10.980 --> 00:57:14.679
just want to write text, you shouldn't have that

00:57:14.679 --> 00:57:17.940
consideration. Like you should remove basically

00:57:17.940 --> 00:57:21.440
the temptation, the potential of destruction.

00:57:22.139 --> 00:57:24.920
So I'm like, you know what, I will just use plain

00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:28.900
text. And if I need, then of course I can go

00:57:28.900 --> 00:57:32.360
with org mode or markdown or whatever. So if

00:57:32.360 --> 00:57:35.559
I have an idea, I write it down. I don't care

00:57:35.559 --> 00:57:38.400
about bolding. I don't care about inline code.

00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:42.000
I don't care about anything. Just putting the

00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:45.059
thoughts out there. That's the main goal. And

00:57:45.059 --> 00:57:47.500
if you need to publish it, then you can, I don't

00:57:47.500 --> 00:57:50.159
know, copy it into an org file or something and,

00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:54.900
you know, certify it basically, right? Correct,

00:57:54.980 --> 00:57:59.559
correct. And then you can publish it. Makes sense.

00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:02.000
And this is generally something which is, of

00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:06.179
course, true in a more general sense. Like, there

00:58:06.179 --> 00:58:09.119
are these whizzy wigs, what you see is what you

00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:14.440
get, editors, where you modify, where you rather

00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:17.599
create the text and also modify its appearance.

00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:20.860
And then there is the other school of thought,

00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:23.480
which is you have to decouple the appearance

00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:27.440
from the contents. For example, LaTeX or these

00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:30.139
other publishing systems that we have. Org Mode,

00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:32.539
of course, is one of these. Where it's like there

00:58:32.539 --> 00:58:35.340
is a lightweight markup, but you don't worry

00:58:35.340 --> 00:58:37.760
about the layout of the page. That's something

00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:42.059
else. So I think in that line of thinking is

00:58:42.059 --> 00:58:44.739
also what I am doing, which is forget about the

00:58:44.739 --> 00:58:47.239
styles, forget about the presentation, focus

00:58:47.239 --> 00:58:50.659
on the text, get the ideas out there, elucidate

00:58:50.659 --> 00:58:54.610
your thoughts in a manner that is clear. And

00:58:54.610 --> 00:58:57.989
then you will have time to tinker with the stuff.

00:58:58.809 --> 00:59:02.550
Okay. What are your thoughts on orc mode and

00:59:02.550 --> 00:59:05.130
markdown? Sorry, give me a second. Let me open

00:59:05.130 --> 00:59:08.170
the door to the puppies. One second. So let me

00:59:08.170 --> 00:59:14.630
just do that. They will go out. They want to

00:59:14.630 --> 00:59:17.130
have their free time. Yeah, yeah. It's their

00:59:17.130 --> 00:59:19.690
time of the day where we normally go out there

00:59:19.690 --> 00:59:23.269
to play. So yeah, there they are. So they are

00:59:23.269 --> 00:59:27.230
here. Okay. Yeah, sorry for that. Yeah, sorry

00:59:27.230 --> 00:59:29.309
about that. Yeah, no worries. So what are your

00:59:29.309 --> 00:59:33.150
thoughts on org, org mode and markdown? Like,

00:59:33.150 --> 00:59:36.010
do you use markdown at times? Or once you go

00:59:36.010 --> 00:59:39.110
to org mode, you see markdown as what is that

00:59:39.110 --> 00:59:45.570
basic and useless format? So my website is built

00:59:45.570 --> 00:59:49.869
with the Jekyll, the static site generator. And

00:59:49.869 --> 00:59:52.309
this is because I made the technology decision

00:59:52.309 --> 00:59:57.250
in 2016, long before I discovered Emacs. Jekyll

00:59:57.250 --> 01:00:00.150
uses Markdown, and for me Markdown is perfectly

01:00:00.150 --> 01:00:03.769
fine. Maybe if you want to do something really

01:00:03.769 --> 01:00:07.409
fancy, it falls short of what Org Mode can do.

01:00:07.610 --> 01:00:10.929
But to me, it's a tool, it works, it gets the

01:00:10.929 --> 01:00:13.849
job done, and I have no problem with it. Org

01:00:13.849 --> 01:00:17.030
Mode is like Markdown. in the sense that you

01:00:17.030 --> 01:00:19.690
still have a lightweight markup, plain text and

01:00:19.690 --> 01:00:23.710
all that. But the main difference is that it

01:00:23.710 --> 01:00:26.809
has that Emacs Lisp layer on top with all the

01:00:26.809 --> 01:00:30.389
extra functionality. So it's not really the markup,

01:00:30.489 --> 01:00:33.670
it's what you can do with it. So with org mode,

01:00:33.829 --> 01:00:37.530
you can do more things that you wouldn't have

01:00:37.530 --> 01:00:41.909
in a generic markdown editor. And these things

01:00:41.909 --> 01:00:45.250
include the evaluation of code blocks and you

01:00:45.250 --> 01:00:47.929
can get the results and you can actually feed

01:00:47.929 --> 01:00:50.050
the results of one code block to another. So

01:00:50.050 --> 01:00:52.690
you have like a literate program, as they call

01:00:52.690 --> 01:00:56.050
it. You can take your document and you can export

01:00:56.050 --> 01:01:01.150
a section of it into HTML or many, many other

01:01:01.150 --> 01:01:05.050
formats. And you can use org mode to do your

01:01:05.050 --> 01:01:09.829
agenda and you can use org mode to link. to other

01:01:09.829 --> 01:01:15.510
documents or buffers. So really org mode is what

01:01:15.510 --> 01:01:18.969
if we have Markdown and then we organize our

01:01:18.969 --> 01:01:21.289
entire life using Markdown. That's basically

01:01:21.289 --> 01:01:25.590
the idea. So it's just not the format of the

01:01:25.590 --> 01:01:28.550
file itself, but it's all the other capabilities

01:01:28.550 --> 01:01:32.289
that you get that you just mentioned. Yeah, like

01:01:32.289 --> 01:01:35.550
in principle, like if someone is committed, you

01:01:35.550 --> 01:01:38.039
could have... the entire feature set of work

01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:41.880
in Markdown. Because then the difference between

01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:44.280
the two is the markup, like what constitutes

01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:47.800
a code, inline code, and what is a block quote,

01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:50.360
and what is this and what is that, right? So

01:01:50.360 --> 01:01:54.340
if it is a hash for the heading or an asterisk,

01:01:54.340 --> 01:01:58.320
that sort of thing. The real value is all the

01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:01.440
commands, all the interactivity on top of the

01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:05.900
markup. I see. Okay. Yeah. I also use Markdown

01:02:05.900 --> 01:02:08.239
into my blog posts. I use Jekyll. I use another,

01:02:08.519 --> 01:02:11.320
yeah, it's a different Jekyll theme, but yeah.

01:02:12.139 --> 01:02:15.019
And I use NeoVim for that. The cool thing about

01:02:15.019 --> 01:02:17.519
NeoVim nowadays is that you can view images so

01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:20.079
I can paste images, you know, from my clipboard

01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:23.539
into NeoVim. I can convert them to AVIF. That's

01:02:23.539 --> 01:02:25.900
the format I use for images, or I could convert

01:02:25.900 --> 01:02:28.360
them to, I don't know, another image format.

01:02:28.969 --> 01:02:31.969
So in NeoVim, I paste it and I can preview it,

01:02:32.070 --> 01:02:37.469
you know, which is cool. Yeah, I mean, it is

01:02:37.469 --> 01:02:40.869
cool because now I remember my old days of using

01:02:40.869 --> 01:02:45.110
Vim where for that, you would have to exit your

01:02:45.110 --> 01:02:47.949
editor, go someplace else and then come back

01:02:47.949 --> 01:02:52.170
and you're like, why? Yeah, it breaks your flow

01:02:52.170 --> 01:02:55.070
completely, you know. And people think that viewing

01:02:55.070 --> 01:02:58.010
images in NeoVim is not useful. But if you have

01:02:58.010 --> 01:03:00.650
a blog post, I think it is useful, right? Because

01:03:00.650 --> 01:03:02.469
you want to see that you have the right image,

01:03:02.650 --> 01:03:06.510
you know? And just to say a general comment on

01:03:06.510 --> 01:03:09.469
this, on this specific point, but I think a more

01:03:09.469 --> 01:03:12.230
general as well, which is like, what do you mean

01:03:12.230 --> 01:03:16.130
it's not useful? So something that is meant to

01:03:16.130 --> 01:03:18.190
be done on the computer, why is it not useful?

01:03:18.369 --> 01:03:22.010
The real question is, how can I do my computing

01:03:22.010 --> 01:03:26.639
in a way that I control? like inside of my favorite

01:03:26.639 --> 01:03:29.599
computing environment, like in your case, Neobim,

01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:32.460
right? So how can I do what people do on the

01:03:32.460 --> 01:03:36.119
computer in a decent way, in an integrated fashion?

01:03:36.420 --> 01:03:39.739
Yeah. So let's not have it the other way around,

01:03:39.780 --> 01:03:41.960
because I think what people do is like, well,

01:03:42.059 --> 01:03:46.079
in the past, our programs were limited. Therefore,

01:03:46.219 --> 01:03:48.980
it's good to be limited. And I'm like, no, no,

01:03:49.019 --> 01:03:52.960
no. Our programs were limited for... technical

01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:55.699
slash hardware limitations, not as a matter of

01:03:55.699 --> 01:03:58.699
principle. If we don't have the technical limitations,

01:03:58.980 --> 01:04:02.360
then let's not impose further constraints on

01:04:02.360 --> 01:04:05.960
ourselves. Yeah. I don't know. There's purists,

01:04:06.079 --> 01:04:08.920
I would say, you know, and people that don't

01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:12.219
like that NeoVim is capable of viewing images

01:04:12.219 --> 01:04:14.679
because it's like, oh, so you're just building

01:04:14.679 --> 01:04:19.800
Emacs in NeoVim now. So that is, you know, I

01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:24.440
don't know. I don't know what's going on. Well,

01:04:24.539 --> 01:04:27.139
it is. But the thing is, if you are a purist,

01:04:27.239 --> 01:04:29.920
why are you using Neogen? Why aren't you using

01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:34.360
the Ed editor? If you are a real purist, why

01:04:34.360 --> 01:04:38.480
are you here? I mean, seriously. Because here

01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:44.460
is the thing. You cannot get to choose how far

01:04:44.460 --> 01:04:47.820
the principle goes. Because if you submit to

01:04:47.820 --> 01:04:52.519
the authority of the view that, our editor has

01:04:52.519 --> 01:04:55.599
to be extensible, then you cannot just draw an

01:04:55.599 --> 01:04:58.760
arbitrary line and say, oh, we got, I don't know,

01:04:58.820 --> 01:05:01.000
Lua, but let's stop here. We don't want images

01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:05.579
now. Why? Yeah, that's too far. Yeah. Complete

01:05:05.579 --> 01:05:08.559
sense makes complete sense. And I 100 % agree.

01:05:08.760 --> 01:05:11.440
I try to extend it as much as possible. You know,

01:05:11.539 --> 01:05:14.440
like, let's say that I need to create a GitHub

01:05:14.440 --> 01:05:17.519
repo. I don't want to go into my browser and

01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:20.199
create a repo. No, I just... from NeoVim. I have

01:05:20.199 --> 01:05:22.139
a key map, you know, create a repo. It's going

01:05:22.139 --> 01:05:24.519
to ask me, do you want it to be private? Do you

01:05:24.519 --> 01:05:26.900
want it to be public? I want it to be private.

01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:30.360
And I create the repo because it breaks my flow.

01:05:30.460 --> 01:05:33.219
If I have to go to the browser, you know, I don't

01:05:33.219 --> 01:05:35.360
even remember what I was doing to begin with.

01:05:35.460 --> 01:05:38.639
So I just like staying in NeoVim in a sense.

01:05:38.699 --> 01:05:41.539
I think it's trying to, at least for me, you

01:05:41.539 --> 01:05:44.559
know, emulate Emacs without knowing because I

01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:47.389
want it to be. really integrated. You know, I

01:05:47.389 --> 01:05:51.710
want it to be the main thing. I spend most of

01:05:51.710 --> 01:05:54.469
my day in Neovim between different instances,

01:05:54.710 --> 01:05:56.889
working on different projects. And if I need

01:05:56.889 --> 01:05:58.789
to go out, of course, to the browser or something

01:05:58.789 --> 01:06:02.829
else, it's fine, you know, but that's what I

01:06:02.829 --> 01:06:08.809
spend my day mostly on, you know. Yeah, and I

01:06:08.809 --> 01:06:13.099
think this is very nice because Of course, somebody

01:06:13.099 --> 01:06:16.199
will say, but how trivial is it to go and create

01:06:16.199 --> 01:06:19.019
a repo? But it's not specifically about that.

01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:23.480
It's about the approach where, okay, I don't

01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:25.900
want just to create a repo. I have this custom

01:06:25.900 --> 01:06:29.380
command which creates a repo and also updates

01:06:29.380 --> 01:06:32.579
my About Me page on my website to list my new

01:06:32.579 --> 01:06:35.840
project, for example. And all that can be done

01:06:35.840 --> 01:06:38.199
because it's the same environment I just wrote

01:06:38.199 --> 01:06:42.460
the code for. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Be

01:06:42.460 --> 01:06:47.559
prepared to think outside the box. Once you have

01:06:47.559 --> 01:06:51.159
the option of drawing linkages between different

01:06:51.159 --> 01:06:54.219
parts of your computer, well, everything will

01:06:54.219 --> 01:06:56.440
be interconnected. So now you can work with it.

01:06:56.639 --> 01:06:59.559
I think people lack imagination sometimes. Yeah.

01:07:00.280 --> 01:07:03.539
Now I have a script that allows me to set my

01:07:03.539 --> 01:07:05.900
color scheme, right? I created it for macOS.

01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:09.469
So if I set my color scheme... I have some custom

01:07:09.469 --> 01:07:12.909
colors, so it applies it in NeoVim on my Mac

01:07:12.909 --> 01:07:15.409
OS bar on the top. Let me show you that real

01:07:15.409 --> 01:07:18.250
quick. I'm not going to... Yes, yes, yes. And

01:07:18.250 --> 01:07:21.610
let me switch to... Yeah, I see your screen,

01:07:21.710 --> 01:07:24.309
yes. Yeah, but if you notice, this doesn't look

01:07:24.309 --> 01:07:26.949
like Mac OS because there's this bar on the top,

01:07:27.090 --> 01:07:29.929
right? This little bar. There's Mac OS, but here's

01:07:29.929 --> 01:07:33.739
this bar. So when I... apply a configuration,

01:07:34.199 --> 01:07:36.599
a color scheme. So I just bring them up like

01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:40.800
this with the Fuzzy Finder script, right? So

01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:44.539
it applies it in NeoVim, the bar at the top,

01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:49.420
the Btop application, everywhere, basically,

01:07:49.659 --> 01:07:52.039
right? Because I want it to be integrated. So

01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:58.099
I'm extending my configuration to macOS and it

01:07:58.099 --> 01:08:01.909
has its limitations, but you can do... Quite

01:08:01.909 --> 01:08:05.929
a few things, actually. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:05.989 --> 01:08:08.590
I think that's beautiful. And yeah, for me, that's

01:08:08.590 --> 01:08:11.269
also the idea. That's also the appeal of it.

01:08:11.389 --> 01:08:13.449
And by the way, I have a similar script for anything

01:08:13.449 --> 01:08:19.409
outside. Oh, yeah. For anything outside. Yeah,

01:08:19.409 --> 01:08:23.909
yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's that idea. And I think

01:08:23.909 --> 01:08:28.619
there is the other thing, which is that... A

01:08:28.619 --> 01:08:31.279
more general, again, thing, which is the computer

01:08:31.279 --> 01:08:36.159
is fundamentally a tool which, at its best, should

01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:39.079
allow us to express what we have in our head

01:08:39.079 --> 01:08:44.260
and to put it out there. And when we have the

01:08:44.260 --> 01:08:48.140
option of an interface that can empower us to

01:08:48.140 --> 01:08:53.319
do that, that interface should be tailored to

01:08:53.319 --> 01:08:57.420
our way of working and not we to its. Exactly.

01:08:57.579 --> 01:09:01.319
Limitations or whatever. Exactly. Okay. Now,

01:09:01.479 --> 01:09:06.720
sorry, we took a turn there. So we were in the

01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:09.520
demo. Okay. So what would you like to show us

01:09:09.520 --> 01:09:14.739
about Emacs? Yes. So let me show you some general

01:09:14.739 --> 01:09:18.159
things. So I have, of course, this is not my

01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:21.560
actual agenda, but what you see right here is

01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:25.539
my org agenda. It's a custom agenda view. where

01:09:25.539 --> 01:09:29.960
I have configured the headings that make sense

01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:33.340
to me. So at the top, I will have tasks that

01:09:33.340 --> 01:09:36.920
are important, which I need to do, but they don't

01:09:36.920 --> 01:09:40.619
have a date to be done. Tasks that I should have

01:09:40.619 --> 01:09:43.020
done, but for whatever reason, I missed the deadline.

01:09:43.220 --> 01:09:47.720
So they will appear here. Today's agenda, where

01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:50.119
you will see things like this, by the way, I

01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:52.979
will update it. So you will see things like this,

01:09:53.119 --> 01:09:56.829
a meeting with you. And then I will have coaching

01:09:56.829 --> 01:10:00.130
and whatever. By the way, this is not real, right?

01:10:00.189 --> 01:10:08.409
So I just made it up. And then my meetings for

01:10:08.409 --> 01:10:12.229
the coming days and the upcoming deadlines. And

01:10:12.229 --> 01:10:15.550
this is how I start my day, basically. I take

01:10:15.550 --> 01:10:18.609
a look at my agenda and depending on what I have

01:10:18.609 --> 01:10:21.989
to do, I will organize my day accordingly. So

01:10:21.989 --> 01:10:24.380
I will start my day in the morning. And I will

01:10:24.380 --> 01:10:27.119
see, okay, let's see, free time in the morning.

01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:29.939
Therefore, I can do some other things rather

01:10:29.939 --> 01:10:33.939
than stay to the computer. I have my email in

01:10:33.939 --> 01:10:36.680
Emacs. And you can see, by the way, do you see

01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:38.380
my mouse? Yep, I see it. At the bottom right

01:10:38.380 --> 01:10:42.500
corner. This is a package of mine that shows

01:10:42.500 --> 01:10:46.859
counters of messages. I use a program called

01:10:46.859 --> 01:10:52.000
NotMuch. And these are filters. You can actually

01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:54.079
click on these. This is a package of mine. I

01:10:54.079 --> 01:10:56.920
won't click on it now. I will just use my keyboard.

01:10:57.260 --> 01:11:03.720
So this is my home buffer for not much. And again,

01:11:03.899 --> 01:11:07.739
you can see the same filters here. I will type

01:11:07.739 --> 01:11:11.300
a key. Now I won't go to my actual unread messages

01:11:11.300 --> 01:11:13.699
because it's private. I will go to packages,

01:11:13.819 --> 01:11:16.640
which is public stuff. It's on GitHub. Okay.

01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:20.600
So I will go there and I will see a message.

01:11:20.659 --> 01:11:23.579
For example, I am reading my email. Of course,

01:11:23.600 --> 01:11:27.260
I can reply to those emails from here. But suppose

01:11:27.260 --> 01:11:30.039
that this is your message. Like you emailed me

01:11:30.039 --> 01:11:32.979
and you're like, hey, Prot, let's set a meeting.

01:11:33.659 --> 01:11:37.119
And I'm like, okay, cool. So let me do that.

01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:42.399
I will do the org capture command. And here I

01:11:42.399 --> 01:11:47.600
have the templates that I have defined. So for

01:11:47.600 --> 01:11:50.939
now, let's imagine it's a coaching meeting. So

01:11:50.939 --> 01:11:54.239
I can do this, okay? Or let's say, okay, we can

01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:56.479
do tasks. It doesn't matter. But let's do a task,

01:11:56.579 --> 01:12:00.739
task to do. So you will see that it is asking

01:12:00.739 --> 01:12:04.180
me here for the title of the task. And here there

01:12:04.180 --> 01:12:07.680
is a template with relevant data already. And

01:12:07.680 --> 01:12:12.060
I will see meet with, let's say, person. Doesn't

01:12:12.060 --> 01:12:14.899
matter who, okay? And let's say this is about

01:12:14.899 --> 01:12:19.800
Emacs, okay? And look what it produced. It produced

01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:24.779
the part that I added plus all the relevant metadata

01:12:24.779 --> 01:12:29.119
I want to have, including a link to the original

01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:33.500
email. So I can file this or at this point, I

01:12:33.500 --> 01:12:38.220
can set a date of when I wanted to do it. So

01:12:38.220 --> 01:12:42.239
let's say I will do it today at 21 hours. Okay.

01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:46.800
So I have that. Let's go back to our... Actually,

01:12:46.939 --> 01:12:48.899
let me mark it as unread because then I will

01:12:48.899 --> 01:12:51.479
forget to check it back. Let's go back to my

01:12:51.479 --> 01:12:54.760
agenda and you will see it's right here. Okay.

01:12:55.079 --> 01:12:59.100
I was going to ask you, how does it do with conflicting

01:12:59.100 --> 01:13:03.180
events? So you get another line with the same

01:13:03.180 --> 01:13:08.159
time, right? Yes. So we have there something

01:13:08.159 --> 01:13:10.939
at seven. Let's do it seven. You get exactly

01:13:10.939 --> 01:13:16.069
that. In principle, you could define something

01:13:16.069 --> 01:13:19.970
to inhibit you from doing that. But I don't do

01:13:19.970 --> 01:13:22.510
it because anyway, I would consult my agenda

01:13:22.510 --> 01:13:26.989
before giving an idea of when to meet. So in

01:13:26.989 --> 01:13:29.630
practice, I wouldn't just recklessly put it on

01:13:29.630 --> 01:13:32.449
a date like this. I would check and then I would

01:13:32.449 --> 01:13:36.010
be like, okay, let's meet at 21 hours, for example.

01:13:36.630 --> 01:13:40.350
Another little thing, but you can see it here.

01:13:41.710 --> 01:13:44.229
It's an abbreviation I have to generate a Jitsi

01:13:44.229 --> 01:13:48.229
link like this. So when I have a meeting, I will

01:13:48.229 --> 01:13:52.489
just send that link. And the nice thing here,

01:13:52.569 --> 01:13:56.130
just to say, you are in the agenda. You can open

01:13:56.130 --> 01:14:00.090
the heading. You see the information. You go,

01:14:00.250 --> 01:14:03.590
you see the email, and you have all the context

01:14:03.590 --> 01:14:07.850
there. So for me, this is very good. It helps

01:14:07.850 --> 01:14:10.689
me a lot with my productivity. I never lose.

01:14:11.149 --> 01:14:15.250
any context and I can always find what I need.

01:14:15.689 --> 01:14:21.329
And this is what I use org the most for. Another

01:14:21.329 --> 01:14:25.329
thing I use org a lot, let me do it with my .emacs,

01:14:25.449 --> 01:14:28.550
but it applies to all the manuals I write, okay?

01:14:28.750 --> 01:14:33.109
So I have technical manuals, but here I will

01:14:33.109 --> 01:14:36.590
just do it with my emacs configuration. So let's

01:14:36.590 --> 01:14:42.229
do some tests. test for the demo. I made the

01:14:42.229 --> 01:14:46.149
change. And what I want to do now is export this

01:14:46.149 --> 01:14:54.310
to HTML. And this, of course, is a massive document

01:14:54.310 --> 01:14:57.449
right here. And by the way, let me tell you,

01:14:57.510 --> 01:15:00.310
because you were asking people how large is the

01:15:00.310 --> 01:15:03.750
Remax configuration. So if you see the bottom

01:15:03.750 --> 01:15:08.100
of my screen, it's 18 ,000 lines plus. Oh, man.

01:15:08.460 --> 01:15:11.239
But this is pros on code. It's not just code,

01:15:11.340 --> 01:15:13.779
okay? Oh, okay, okay, okay. So it's the literate

01:15:13.779 --> 01:15:15.399
config that they keep talking about. It's the

01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:18.119
literate thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So here

01:15:18.119 --> 01:15:21.539
I have the HTML output of it. And you will see

01:15:21.539 --> 01:15:24.539
I have this thing where I jump to a bookmark,

01:15:24.560 --> 01:15:28.420
if you see. I did it before already. And it will

01:15:28.420 --> 01:15:33.100
jump to a web page, sorry, to a file anywhere

01:15:33.100 --> 01:15:36.409
on my file system. that I have already specified.

01:15:36.670 --> 01:15:40.489
So I go there, I update. This is my website.

01:15:40.850 --> 01:15:44.550
And from here, I will go to Magit. This is our

01:15:44.550 --> 01:15:48.409
Git client. And from here, you can... Actually,

01:15:48.449 --> 01:15:51.550
I won't demonstrate Magit now. It's very powerful.

01:15:51.789 --> 01:15:54.949
But the point is that you can stage the file

01:15:54.949 --> 01:16:00.670
and you can write a commit message such as update

01:16:00.670 --> 01:16:04.239
.emacs. Okay, like this, and commit, and now

01:16:04.239 --> 01:16:06.659
you are ready to merge. Sorry, ready to push.

01:16:06.939 --> 01:16:10.840
Okay. I won't do that now, actually, so let me

01:16:10.840 --> 01:16:16.239
do a hard reset on origin. We are back to where

01:16:16.239 --> 01:16:19.100
we were. Can you merge as well in Magit, or you

01:16:19.100 --> 01:16:24.170
have to go to the GitHub website? You can merge

01:16:24.170 --> 01:16:27.649
as well, so you can handle your issues and pull

01:16:27.649 --> 01:16:31.050
requests and everything. But because me, I don't

01:16:31.050 --> 01:16:33.869
receive that many, and I have my email as well

01:16:33.869 --> 01:16:37.310
for the issues coming from GitHub, I haven't

01:16:37.310 --> 01:16:40.350
bothered to set that up for Magit. But there

01:16:40.350 --> 01:16:43.670
are people who do it. It's called Forge. The

01:16:43.670 --> 01:16:46.810
package is Forge. Oh, so it's in addition to

01:16:46.810 --> 01:16:51.479
Magit or however. Okay. Yeah, and the interface

01:16:51.479 --> 01:16:53.640
is the same, what you see here. It's just an

01:16:53.640 --> 01:16:55.979
extra package where you provide your authentication,

01:16:56.319 --> 01:16:58.720
that sort of thing. I have a question for you,

01:16:58.760 --> 01:17:02.640
Prat. Yes. How do you get notifications in Emacs?

01:17:02.739 --> 01:17:04.460
Let's say that you get an email, right? I send

01:17:04.460 --> 01:17:06.439
you an email. How do you know that I sent you

01:17:06.439 --> 01:17:10.060
an email? This counter, actually, you saw it

01:17:10.060 --> 01:17:12.479
already. If you see the video, there was 13 here

01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:17.279
and it changed to 14. So the way this works is

01:17:17.279 --> 01:17:21.640
that if we go again to my .emacs, and another

01:17:21.640 --> 01:17:24.739
thing that you will see me doing now is I will

01:17:24.739 --> 01:17:31.460
jump to a specific heading. I forgot how I call

01:17:31.460 --> 01:17:34.420
my package indicator. Okay. So you see I was

01:17:34.420 --> 01:17:37.079
on line one and I'm now on line 10 ,000 plus.

01:17:37.300 --> 01:17:41.979
I jumped directly to a heading. And basically...

01:17:42.300 --> 01:17:46.520
I have this over here, which is a timer, specifically

01:17:46.520 --> 01:17:49.420
three minutes. Every three minutes, I get an

01:17:49.420 --> 01:17:51.779
update on those counters and I see the number.

01:17:52.520 --> 01:17:57.899
Okay. I could, if I wanted, I could have something

01:17:57.899 --> 01:18:01.760
involving a desktop notification. And let me

01:18:01.760 --> 01:18:05.619
do something for you just to see. For example,

01:18:05.779 --> 01:18:10.869
it can be Emacs. Don't worry about what I am

01:18:10.869 --> 01:18:15.689
doing right now, but you will get the idea. The

01:18:15.689 --> 01:18:22.289
test is here for you to see. Do you see the notification

01:18:22.289 --> 01:18:24.449
on the bottom right of my screen? Yep, I see

01:18:24.449 --> 01:18:28.390
it. So I could definitely do something like this,

01:18:28.510 --> 01:18:31.390
but because there are days where I receive lots

01:18:31.390 --> 01:18:35.569
of emails and those are distracting, those notifications,

01:18:35.850 --> 01:18:40.109
I generally don't like it. I prepare the more

01:18:40.109 --> 01:18:44.550
subtle interface of the indicator. And I would

01:18:44.550 --> 01:18:46.869
say there are times where even the indicator

01:18:46.869 --> 01:18:50.189
is not useful to me because I really want to

01:18:50.189 --> 01:18:53.229
focus. So I will comment out the... Sorry, I

01:18:53.229 --> 01:18:57.409
will disable the indicator. So the minor mode

01:18:57.409 --> 01:19:02.789
that it provides. Oh, okay. So you want no distractions

01:19:02.789 --> 01:19:05.779
at times, right? You can just disable it. Yeah,

01:19:05.880 --> 01:19:08.060
like this. And you see there is nothing here

01:19:08.060 --> 01:19:14.100
now. Okay. And, of course, you can go back and

01:19:14.100 --> 01:19:20.539
enable it again. This is what I mainly do with

01:19:20.539 --> 01:19:25.739
Emacs. Let me go to some of my packages for you

01:19:25.739 --> 01:19:30.539
to see over here. This is one of my bigger packages.

01:19:30.659 --> 01:19:34.640
Again. I will visit the file and then I will

01:19:34.640 --> 01:19:37.920
jump to a heading. Let's say I will go to a macro

01:19:37.920 --> 01:19:41.000
here, one of the macros we have, and I want to

01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:43.239
see what we are doing. Maybe I want to make some

01:19:43.239 --> 01:19:47.039
modifications. And of course, now I don't have

01:19:47.039 --> 01:19:50.300
something concrete to do. But let's say that

01:19:50.300 --> 01:19:52.399
this should be flipped and I will do something

01:19:52.399 --> 01:19:57.359
like this, for example. And I can go around and

01:19:57.359 --> 01:20:00.760
make my edits as usual. There are people who

01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:04.760
use a lot of packages for so -called structural

01:20:04.760 --> 01:20:09.319
editing. So to move around between the parentheses,

01:20:09.500 --> 01:20:14.159
like I do here, if you see. Me personally, I

01:20:14.159 --> 01:20:17.439
use what is built into Emacs, which are some

01:20:17.439 --> 01:20:22.079
basic commands. And I am okay with them, if you

01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:26.659
see how I am moving. There are people who are

01:20:26.659 --> 01:20:29.020
really into Lisp and who really want to have

01:20:29.020 --> 01:20:32.279
all their parentheses balanced. Me, I always

01:20:32.279 --> 01:20:35.060
have an eye for them and I don't need the package

01:20:35.060 --> 01:20:38.000
to do that. Like there are packages where you

01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:40.140
insert one parentheses and it will insert the

01:20:40.140 --> 01:20:42.880
closing parentheses. And they will always keep

01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:47.500
it balanced and indented correctly. For me, that's

01:20:47.500 --> 01:20:50.119
not really important. They auto -format. Let's

01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:51.779
say that you don't indent something correctly,

01:20:51.960 --> 01:20:54.640
you can have a package that automatically indents

01:20:54.640 --> 01:20:58.020
it correctly for you, right? Correct, correct.

01:20:58.399 --> 01:21:00.600
And it will be really aggressive in that regard.

01:21:00.779 --> 01:21:04.680
But me, I can be messy at times. For example,

01:21:04.859 --> 01:21:09.640
let's say that I'm writing my, let's say, test.

01:21:10.199 --> 01:21:14.340
for a prompt okay so i am doing a prompt and

01:21:14.340 --> 01:21:20.079
i am about to write here sorry completing read

01:21:20.079 --> 01:21:25.359
i am about to write here what i want to be prompted

01:21:25.359 --> 01:21:30.300
for and it's one two three and then i remember

01:21:30.300 --> 01:21:34.420
that i forgot to have the history actually if

01:21:34.420 --> 01:21:36.279
you see the bottom of my screen you see a yellow

01:21:36.279 --> 01:21:40.960
color Do you see it? It says hist. So I'm like,

01:21:41.039 --> 01:21:43.560
oh my goodness, I forgot the hist. So I will

01:21:43.560 --> 01:21:47.319
just do something like this. And then I will

01:21:47.319 --> 01:21:49.180
come back here without closing the parentheses.

01:21:49.279 --> 01:21:53.119
Look at that. And I will be like, okay, the hist

01:21:53.119 --> 01:21:57.220
is here. And let me come back here. So this is

01:21:57.220 --> 01:22:00.380
a bit chaotic. And if you are having a package

01:22:00.380 --> 01:22:02.300
that balances parentheses automatically, you

01:22:02.300 --> 01:22:08.180
will break everything. So for me, I am okay with

01:22:08.180 --> 01:22:11.619
having things unbalanced, like here. Technically,

01:22:11.640 --> 01:22:14.600
this is unbalanced. This is broken. But for me,

01:22:14.659 --> 01:22:17.359
maybe I have it like that because I plan to do

01:22:17.359 --> 01:22:20.579
something and I know and I remember that I need

01:22:20.579 --> 01:22:23.960
to write something here and then I can come back

01:22:23.960 --> 01:22:27.520
here and do whatever, you know, and add more

01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:31.199
things. Yeah, because otherwise it's going to

01:22:31.199 --> 01:22:33.640
auto -format it to the way that I think it should

01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:35.720
be auto -formatted. And it's just going to be,

01:22:35.859 --> 01:22:38.579
yeah, you have to fight the formatter, right?

01:22:39.279 --> 01:22:42.500
The thing is, if you think the way the formatter

01:22:42.500 --> 01:22:45.539
expects, basically you are flying. It's really

01:22:45.539 --> 01:22:49.659
fast and everything follows where you are. And

01:22:49.659 --> 01:22:53.220
in your wake, all the parentheses close behind

01:22:53.220 --> 01:22:56.859
you. But for me, that doesn't work. I think in

01:22:56.859 --> 01:23:00.140
a way that is not how those packages are designed.

01:23:00.739 --> 01:23:04.579
Okay, makes sense. Okay. Just to say another

01:23:04.579 --> 01:23:06.840
little thing, here you will see there is a node.

01:23:07.079 --> 01:23:09.779
So I have a small command to collect all those

01:23:09.779 --> 01:23:13.279
in a buffer and see what I need to do with them.

01:23:13.720 --> 01:23:17.319
Okay. That's a little thing. And from here, I

01:23:17.319 --> 01:23:21.060
can just go and read whatever I am interested

01:23:21.060 --> 01:23:24.659
in like this. I have it here in a buffer because

01:23:24.659 --> 01:23:28.119
I need it to be persistent. But I could also

01:23:28.119 --> 01:23:31.800
have it in the mini buffer, meaning this interface

01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:35.140
that we see here. I could have it here as well.

01:23:36.140 --> 01:23:38.859
But I prefer to have it here because it's persistent.

01:23:39.539 --> 01:23:42.680
Okay. I have something kind of similar to that.

01:23:42.760 --> 01:23:46.840
Let me just quickly show you. Yes, please. So

01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:51.640
if we look at my screen. Yes, yes. So, well.

01:23:52.270 --> 01:23:55.750
My headings in Neovim are a little bit different

01:23:55.750 --> 01:23:58.590
because I like headings a lot. So just let me

01:23:58.590 --> 01:24:00.689
quickly show that to you. I'm going to switch

01:24:00.689 --> 01:24:04.510
to another project that is in my notes. Yeah,

01:24:04.609 --> 01:24:08.149
that's in my notes. That's in this test markdown

01:24:08.149 --> 01:24:13.149
file. So I can fold headings level one and level

01:24:13.149 --> 01:24:16.090
two, right? So this is level one. All of these

01:24:16.090 --> 01:24:19.970
are level two with another key map. L, I think

01:24:19.970 --> 01:24:23.310
this is, I cannot see the letter, but this, it's

01:24:23.310 --> 01:24:26.550
level one, two, and three, right? So I use that

01:24:26.550 --> 01:24:30.430
a lot. So to navigate headings, I'm not sure

01:24:30.430 --> 01:24:33.369
if it's a default in Emacs or if it works exactly

01:24:33.369 --> 01:24:37.149
the same way. Yeah, I would say it's exactly

01:24:37.149 --> 01:24:39.989
the same for markdown, for org mode, and also

01:24:39.989 --> 01:24:43.930
for any buffer you want. Oh, for any buffer.

01:24:44.090 --> 01:24:47.140
Okay, now. Let me show you something else, something

01:24:47.140 --> 01:24:49.380
that I came up with as well. Just to say, of

01:24:49.380 --> 01:24:52.140
course, what I said there, depending on what

01:24:52.140 --> 01:24:54.439
buffer, you may have to do a little bit of work.

01:24:55.020 --> 01:25:02.960
Oh, okay. Okay. Look at this. I have been completing

01:25:02.960 --> 01:25:05.779
some tasks here. This is not built into Neovim,

01:25:05.840 --> 01:25:09.439
something that I built with Lua, right? So in

01:25:09.439 --> 01:25:13.199
the interview, if I do here, Alt X is just going

01:25:13.199 --> 01:25:16.760
to mark this. Alt X. And it's going to move it

01:25:16.760 --> 01:25:21.579
to this completed tasks section and add the date

01:25:21.579 --> 01:25:25.619
and time automatically. Right. I don't know.

01:25:26.340 --> 01:25:29.939
I like using this for this type of thing, you

01:25:29.939 --> 01:25:32.079
know, for interviews because I need to be marking

01:25:32.079 --> 01:25:34.520
stuff. I don't need to have it here anymore.

01:25:34.619 --> 01:25:37.140
Right. I just need to get rid of it. So I just

01:25:37.140 --> 01:25:40.520
move it, move it here. I'm sorry. Let's jump

01:25:40.520 --> 01:25:45.670
back to your screen. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So back

01:25:45.670 --> 01:25:48.109
to my screen. And of course, what you have there

01:25:48.109 --> 01:25:51.430
with the timestamp, I think that's really good.

01:25:51.550 --> 01:25:56.529
And we have it, if I go to the tasks, we can

01:25:56.529 --> 01:25:58.850
have it in a lot of ways here. But let's say

01:25:58.850 --> 01:26:03.210
I actually let me go to the agenda. Because from

01:26:03.210 --> 01:26:06.130
there, let's say I met with Alexandros and explained

01:26:06.130 --> 01:26:12.199
how to be great. So I will mark it as done. And

01:26:12.199 --> 01:26:15.600
you can optionally have all these extra metadata

01:26:15.600 --> 01:26:21.300
here where it says that from that specific heading

01:26:21.300 --> 01:26:25.859
keyword you have, you change it to this one at

01:26:25.859 --> 01:26:29.399
that time. And yeah, you can have that. But what

01:26:29.399 --> 01:26:32.119
you have there, I also like, which is to also

01:26:32.119 --> 01:26:35.279
file them under a different heading. Of course,

01:26:35.300 --> 01:26:37.640
you can do that here with configuration, but

01:26:37.640 --> 01:26:40.590
it's not the default. Okay. Whereas this one

01:26:40.590 --> 01:26:43.930
is largely default. Oh, yeah. A lot of stuff

01:26:43.930 --> 01:26:46.810
is built into Emacs already. That's the thing,

01:26:46.949 --> 01:26:50.029
you know, because I talked to another guy. He

01:26:50.029 --> 01:26:55.069
was a huge NeoVim user. His name is Dina, you

01:26:55.069 --> 01:26:58.390
know. He is a writer, actually a professional

01:26:58.390 --> 01:27:02.270
writer. He was in NeoVim and he switched to Emacs.

01:27:02.350 --> 01:27:05.090
And he was in NeoVim Conf, you know. He had spoken

01:27:05.090 --> 01:27:08.340
in like three different NeoVim Conf. one of those

01:27:08.340 --> 01:27:11.060
conferences. Now he's on Emacs and I don't think

01:27:11.060 --> 01:27:14.279
he's looking back because he says that for writers,

01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:21.600
org mode is heaven for him, at least. I'm curious

01:27:21.600 --> 01:27:24.439
also, because you mentioned writers, did you

01:27:24.439 --> 01:27:30.040
cover the key bindings? What do you mean? Like

01:27:30.040 --> 01:27:33.239
Emacs versus Vim key bindings, like for writers.

01:27:33.479 --> 01:27:36.079
Was there any discussion about that? No. Because

01:27:36.079 --> 01:27:38.479
of course it came from Vim. Did you keep using

01:27:38.479 --> 01:27:42.000
Vim keys? Oh, yeah. I think, I'm not exactly

01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:44.460
sure. We did cover that in the video somewhere.

01:27:44.779 --> 01:27:48.220
I think he's using evil mode. I think. Not sure.

01:27:48.619 --> 01:27:52.000
Not sure. Okay, okay, okay. Just curious, just

01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:54.380
curious. I don't have an opinion about it. Yeah.

01:27:54.739 --> 01:27:58.829
Yeah, I think he is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good,

01:27:58.909 --> 01:28:03.090
very good. So this is basically what I do. One

01:28:03.090 --> 01:28:06.890
other thing I didn't show you is that right now

01:28:06.890 --> 01:28:09.970
I am using a single Emacs frame. The other, what

01:28:09.970 --> 01:28:13.930
you see above those tabs, come from the window

01:28:13.930 --> 01:28:17.489
manager. But what you see here is a single Emacs

01:28:17.489 --> 01:28:20.590
frame. What I normally do is when I switch to

01:28:20.590 --> 01:28:24.130
a project, this is the project prompt interface.

01:28:25.079 --> 01:28:27.680
For example, earlier I moved to denote, but I

01:28:27.680 --> 01:28:29.859
moved in a way that I actually don't normally

01:28:29.859 --> 01:28:32.319
do. What I normally do is I select a project

01:28:32.319 --> 01:28:35.699
like this. And let's go to another one just to

01:28:35.699 --> 01:28:38.840
see. It opens a new Emacs frame. You can see

01:28:38.840 --> 01:28:41.920
above, the tab above, it says denote org. Maybe

01:28:41.920 --> 01:28:44.060
it's too small of a text, but yeah, that's it.

01:28:44.460 --> 01:28:48.960
And this is a package of mine which limits the

01:28:48.960 --> 01:28:52.460
buffers. So buffers are the files you have open,

01:28:52.520 --> 01:28:56.100
basically. what you have open in memory of Emacs.

01:28:56.180 --> 01:28:59.760
It limits the buffers only to those in the given

01:28:59.760 --> 01:29:03.520
frame, as well as some other global buffers,

01:29:03.539 --> 01:29:06.100
so -called. And the reason I do this is because

01:29:06.100 --> 01:29:09.760
if I go back here, you will see I have a lot

01:29:09.760 --> 01:29:14.899
of buffers here now. So over the course of, let's

01:29:14.899 --> 01:29:17.640
say, a couple of hours, I will accumulate easily

01:29:17.640 --> 01:29:22.100
200 buffers. And for me... I want those buffers

01:29:22.100 --> 01:29:25.520
to be organized by project, basically. So if

01:29:25.520 --> 01:29:28.560
I go, for example, to the Modus themes, I don't

01:29:28.560 --> 01:29:30.619
want to see anything else. I just want to see

01:29:30.619 --> 01:29:36.220
everything related to Modu. So this is the idea

01:29:36.220 --> 01:29:42.060
here. So is it another Emacs instance? Is it

01:29:42.060 --> 01:29:45.000
something else? It's another Emacs frame. So

01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:48.039
it's the same instance. So if I really want,

01:29:48.239 --> 01:29:51.479
I get all the buffers. And you can see them over

01:29:51.479 --> 01:29:57.439
there. You see? So I have them all. But it's

01:29:57.439 --> 01:30:00.920
just a way for me to limit them by frame. So

01:30:00.920 --> 01:30:05.100
in Emacs, we have the concept of the frame, which

01:30:05.100 --> 01:30:08.720
is... Let me change the split a little bit to

01:30:08.720 --> 01:30:12.590
this. Maybe we can close Google Earth now and

01:30:12.590 --> 01:30:16.130
we don't care about it. So we can close this

01:30:16.130 --> 01:30:20.670
as well. So what you see here, let me just have

01:30:20.670 --> 01:30:24.489
it like this. So what you see here is three Emacs

01:30:24.489 --> 01:30:29.750
frames. And maybe it's easy for you to see. It's

01:30:29.750 --> 01:30:35.130
like Emacs sessions. Sort of. Kind of. Think

01:30:35.130 --> 01:30:40.859
of them more like... Let's say the tabs you have

01:30:40.859 --> 01:30:43.699
in TMAX. Is it called sessions? I forgot to know.

01:30:44.220 --> 01:30:47.439
Maybe it's sessions, yes. Yeah, the sessions

01:30:47.439 --> 01:30:50.439
are the ones that you cannot see, right? Sessions

01:30:50.439 --> 01:30:55.539
are just like out there. Yeah, I'm trying to

01:30:55.539 --> 01:30:58.119
think what is the right... No, the easiest way

01:30:58.119 --> 01:31:01.659
to think of it is that it is one EMAX thread.

01:31:01.819 --> 01:31:05.449
It's one EMAX process running. But it's many

01:31:05.449 --> 01:31:08.510
windows, like the equivalent of windows on the

01:31:08.510 --> 01:31:11.069
Mac with the buttons above where you can click

01:31:11.069 --> 01:31:15.090
to close them and maximize them. So there are

01:31:15.090 --> 01:31:20.930
many such windows. And the idea is that you can

01:31:20.930 --> 01:31:23.770
move them to different workspaces. For example...

01:31:23.979 --> 01:31:27.140
I will put those on workspaces four and three.

01:31:27.260 --> 01:31:29.279
You can see the bottom of my screen, maybe. I

01:31:29.279 --> 01:31:32.279
don't know how large the text is. I see it. Here,

01:31:32.500 --> 01:31:35.199
four and three. But they are all the same, right?

01:31:35.300 --> 01:31:37.579
So if I, for example, switch to a dark theme,

01:31:37.680 --> 01:31:40.880
which I will do now, okay? And I will go to the

01:31:40.880 --> 01:31:43.739
other Emacs frames. They are all using my dark

01:31:43.739 --> 01:31:46.840
theme because it's the same Emacs. If I increase

01:31:46.840 --> 01:31:49.880
the font size, let's say, okay? And that's another

01:31:49.880 --> 01:31:52.859
package of mine, by the way. I will go here again.

01:31:53.310 --> 01:31:56.630
font size bigger because it's the same emacs

01:31:56.630 --> 01:32:00.670
so it's the same emacs but it's many windows

01:32:00.670 --> 01:32:04.130
and the idea is that you can move them around

01:32:04.130 --> 01:32:07.369
and then if you want you can augment to them

01:32:07.369 --> 01:32:11.210
with what i have here a package of mine to only

01:32:11.210 --> 01:32:15.289
show buffers pertinent to the given frame what

01:32:15.289 --> 01:32:18.560
you would call a window in mac Oh, interesting.

01:32:18.840 --> 01:32:22.479
The way that I do that, if I just switch to my

01:32:22.479 --> 01:32:26.359
screen, is with Tmux. Yes, yes. And I noticed

01:32:26.359 --> 01:32:29.739
in one of your videos that you were aware of

01:32:29.739 --> 01:32:32.060
Tmux in the past, right? So that's one of the

01:32:32.060 --> 01:32:34.680
questions that I have for you as well. But this

01:32:34.680 --> 01:32:37.359
is my daily note, which is a Tmux session. So

01:32:37.359 --> 01:32:41.840
if I type a shortcut in my keyboard, right? Let

01:32:41.840 --> 01:32:45.199
me type a shortcut here. Three keys. It switches

01:32:45.199 --> 01:32:50.090
to... my .files latest CMUX session, right? Which

01:32:50.090 --> 01:32:54.710
is just that repo. But if I do hyper -tr, that

01:32:54.710 --> 01:32:58.069
switches to my daily note, it creates it, right?

01:32:58.130 --> 01:33:00.329
If I don't have a daily note, it creates it and

01:33:00.329 --> 01:33:04.109
it creates a CMUX session for it. So that's quite

01:33:04.109 --> 01:33:07.189
handy for stuff like this. Or if I want to jump

01:33:07.189 --> 01:33:11.229
to my notes, another key map, it's another repo,

01:33:11.510 --> 01:33:15.529
right? This Obsidian one, you can see it at the...

01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:18.760
At the very top. So I use TMAX for that, but

01:33:18.760 --> 01:33:22.560
on each TMAX session, I'm running a different

01:33:22.560 --> 01:33:25.920
NeoVim instance with its own buffers. But if

01:33:25.920 --> 01:33:28.760
I change the color scheme, I still need to quit

01:33:28.760 --> 01:33:31.840
NeoVim on each one of them and reopen it, you

01:33:31.840 --> 01:33:34.060
know, because the settings are not going to be

01:33:34.060 --> 01:33:37.359
applied. So I like what you just demoed right

01:33:37.359 --> 01:33:40.119
now. You just change it in one place and it's

01:33:40.119 --> 01:33:42.859
just going, since it's a single Emacs instance,

01:33:43.060 --> 01:33:46.460
I assume, right? Yeah, yeah. It's one instance.

01:33:46.560 --> 01:33:49.960
So it's like you just have many views to the

01:33:49.960 --> 01:33:53.619
same place, let's say. Awesome. Okay. That's

01:33:53.619 --> 01:33:59.920
the idea. And for me, that's very useful. Like

01:33:59.920 --> 01:34:02.260
what you showed with T -Max is nice because you

01:34:02.260 --> 01:34:05.500
also combine it with the power of recreating

01:34:05.500 --> 01:34:09.100
something you have saved. You can do that in

01:34:09.100 --> 01:34:12.180
Emacs as well. There are packages for it. Like

01:34:12.180 --> 01:34:14.979
how I showed with the bookmarks. Imagine that

01:34:14.979 --> 01:34:19.659
a bookmark is actually arbitrary Emacs Lisp data

01:34:19.659 --> 01:34:22.800
and you can do anything with it. You can recreate

01:34:22.800 --> 01:34:25.439
a buffer, you can recreate a frame, you can recreate

01:34:25.439 --> 01:34:28.199
a frame with all of its buffers and so on and

01:34:28.199 --> 01:34:32.119
so forth. So it's just a matter of if you want

01:34:32.119 --> 01:34:35.560
to go down that path. So that which you showed

01:34:35.560 --> 01:34:39.520
where you recreate, you re -instantiate something,

01:34:39.760 --> 01:34:42.720
I think that's very nice. What I personally like

01:34:42.720 --> 01:34:45.960
with the different frames of one Emacs instance

01:34:45.960 --> 01:34:49.439
is the fact that I can put them in different

01:34:49.439 --> 01:34:51.739
workspaces like this. Because let's say, for

01:34:51.739 --> 01:34:55.840
example, I am here, okay? And I now want to have

01:34:55.840 --> 01:34:59.500
Firefox on the side here. Because let's say I

01:34:59.500 --> 01:35:01.680
want to view something, okay? It doesn't really

01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:05.659
matter now. I don't have actually something to

01:35:05.659 --> 01:35:10.039
view, but let's imagine that I am doing this.

01:35:10.520 --> 01:35:15.539
Let's say, so suppose I am looking at something

01:35:15.539 --> 01:35:18.199
here. Okay. I need to reference it. And then

01:35:18.199 --> 01:35:20.899
I need to work with my image over here specifically

01:35:20.899 --> 01:35:23.380
for this project. Right. And then let's say I

01:35:23.380 --> 01:35:26.180
want to go back to my other project, which is

01:35:26.180 --> 01:35:30.680
here. I don't want to have to mess around with

01:35:30.680 --> 01:35:33.199
this. It has to stay the way it is. And then

01:35:33.199 --> 01:35:36.260
when I am done, I go back to this one and I continue

01:35:36.260 --> 01:35:39.010
where I left it off. Yeah, you have your environment

01:35:39.010 --> 01:35:43.569
set there. Okay, makes sense. Yeah, this is the

01:35:43.569 --> 01:35:46.149
idea. This is the flexibility of the many frames.

01:35:46.569 --> 01:35:49.149
Not to say that you cannot do it differently.

01:35:49.529 --> 01:35:52.369
Of course, you can organize it differently. The

01:35:52.369 --> 01:35:57.449
point is, for me, is to have the option of potentially

01:35:57.449 --> 01:36:02.250
having different projects running in parallel.

01:36:02.729 --> 01:36:04.590
And me switching from one to the other without

01:36:04.590 --> 01:36:09.069
losing context. Yeah, man, what you showed right

01:36:09.069 --> 01:36:11.850
now about organizing your life in the work mode

01:36:11.850 --> 01:36:13.949
is beautiful, you know, because I cannot do that

01:36:13.949 --> 01:36:17.409
in UAM. If I want to come up with a system like

01:36:17.409 --> 01:36:20.529
that, it would take me way too long, you know,

01:36:20.529 --> 01:36:23.430
and I don't know if there's a solution already,

01:36:23.949 --> 01:36:26.550
you know, but this is built into Emacs, right?

01:36:28.029 --> 01:36:31.090
That's the thing. This is... Like, I'm sure you

01:36:31.090 --> 01:36:34.729
can do it. Like, if you think about it, the way

01:36:34.729 --> 01:36:38.529
you have it there, you have headings with timestamps

01:36:38.529 --> 01:36:41.409
associated with them. So you could, in principle,

01:36:41.470 --> 01:36:44.029
have headings. Let's imagine you have a meeting.

01:36:45.489 --> 01:36:49.989
Actually, let me go. So these are my, yeah, let's

01:36:49.989 --> 01:36:54.300
imagine. So you have a meeting with Thatch. And

01:36:54.300 --> 01:36:58.340
you could have a timestamp associated with it.

01:36:58.739 --> 01:37:01.819
I don't know. Let's have something like this,

01:37:01.899 --> 01:37:04.779
right? So you could have something like that

01:37:04.779 --> 01:37:08.020
in your markdown file. So you would have your

01:37:08.020 --> 01:37:11.239
function read through the headings from top to

01:37:11.239 --> 01:37:14.760
bottom, potentially filtering by something or

01:37:14.760 --> 01:37:17.840
by the presence of a timestamp or whatnot. You

01:37:17.840 --> 01:37:21.000
collect that into a list. Then you go in another

01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:25.159
buffer and you print those using some conditions

01:37:25.159 --> 01:37:30.359
like you start the timestamps and that kind of

01:37:30.359 --> 01:37:32.380
work. But I wouldn't have the integration with

01:37:32.380 --> 01:37:35.739
the calendars and with the email. That's the

01:37:35.739 --> 01:37:37.920
nice thing. Then I wouldn't have to figure out

01:37:37.920 --> 01:37:42.060
how to do email calendar. So it's... Yeah, yeah,

01:37:42.079 --> 01:37:46.739
yeah. That's exactly where... emacs and here

01:37:46.739 --> 01:37:49.640
in this case org mode gives you a lot of power

01:37:49.640 --> 01:37:54.020
exactly because of that extra work that has gone

01:37:54.020 --> 01:37:56.899
into it and you have like think of it this way

01:37:56.899 --> 01:37:59.920
the more you have the greater the value of each

01:37:59.920 --> 01:38:03.680
of them because now the more potential they have

01:38:03.680 --> 01:38:07.000
to integrate with each other yeah like to give

01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:08.680
you an idea because we mentioned the calendar

01:38:08.680 --> 01:38:11.819
and earlier you asked me about nodes so let me

01:38:11.819 --> 01:38:15.750
do mx calendar Okay, so here is the calendar.

01:38:16.890 --> 01:38:22.989
You can, and I have it here, you can run a function

01:38:22.989 --> 01:38:27.109
to do something with that calendar on that day.

01:38:28.149 --> 01:38:31.010
For example, here, let me see, do I have it?

01:38:31.449 --> 01:38:34.050
New or existing, you see here, denote a journal.

01:38:34.170 --> 01:38:38.369
So I can go to the calendar here. Let's say I

01:38:38.369 --> 01:38:42.119
want to create a journal entry for... What even

01:38:42.119 --> 01:38:44.979
is the date today? It's already the 31st. So

01:38:44.979 --> 01:38:46.899
let's say yesterday I wanted to write something.

01:38:47.020 --> 01:38:51.739
I go here. Here is my new journal entry for this

01:38:51.739 --> 01:38:55.720
date. And this one is plain text for the reasons

01:38:55.720 --> 01:38:58.300
we covered earlier. But of course, I could have

01:38:58.300 --> 01:39:03.239
it in org mode. And this is my journal. Okay.

01:39:03.640 --> 01:39:06.439
And if I go back to the journal, actually look

01:39:06.439 --> 01:39:11.100
at that. Day 30 is marked. because of some tweaks

01:39:11.100 --> 01:39:14.279
I have where my journal entries will be highlighted

01:39:14.279 --> 01:39:17.500
for the given day. Before our video, I made some

01:39:17.500 --> 01:39:19.699
changes so that you wouldn't see the private

01:39:19.699 --> 01:39:21.979
parts, but you get the idea, right? Yep, yep.

01:39:24.479 --> 01:39:29.239
And just to say, so imagine I killed that buffer,

01:39:29.359 --> 01:39:33.260
so I just have the thing here. You go here and

01:39:33.260 --> 01:39:40.539
you open your journal entry for that day. Yeah.

01:39:42.060 --> 01:39:44.760
And again, this is the point of integration.

01:39:45.199 --> 01:39:48.159
Like, of course, at one level, this is just a

01:39:48.159 --> 01:39:51.460
calendar. At another level, I am reading data

01:39:51.460 --> 01:39:54.619
from here and I am doing stuff with it. So it's

01:39:54.619 --> 01:39:57.939
not just to view the dates, but actually do something

01:39:57.939 --> 01:40:00.039
with them, which is what you want, right? Because

01:40:00.039 --> 01:40:02.720
when I open my calendar in the macOS application,

01:40:03.119 --> 01:40:05.500
I can create events, you know, but it's pretty

01:40:05.500 --> 01:40:08.579
limited. And I don't like it, you know, if I'm

01:40:08.579 --> 01:40:11.279
honest with you, I'm in need of it most of the

01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:14.779
day. And when I go to the calendar application,

01:40:15.119 --> 01:40:19.039
it just feels very disconnected, right? So I

01:40:19.039 --> 01:40:23.159
cannot use my... my keyboard motions and all

01:40:23.159 --> 01:40:25.779
that stuff. It's different. So I think Emacs

01:40:25.779 --> 01:40:31.020
excels at that specifically. Yeah. Yeah. And

01:40:31.020 --> 01:40:34.199
it's, again, I think it's mostly the spirit of

01:40:34.199 --> 01:40:37.399
Emacs, right? It's not so much Emacs, the program,

01:40:37.500 --> 01:40:40.640
because if you can do that again in NeoBeam,

01:40:40.680 --> 01:40:44.279
why wouldn't you want it? Like, why wouldn't

01:40:44.279 --> 01:40:47.039
you want to have a calendar interface, which

01:40:47.039 --> 01:40:49.420
allows you to create events such as meetings,

01:40:49.640 --> 01:40:51.960
but also allows you to create journal entries,

01:40:52.060 --> 01:40:54.520
for example, and anything else you could imagine,

01:40:54.619 --> 01:40:58.319
like in principle. Yeah. I have a question for

01:40:58.319 --> 01:41:02.699
you about Lisp. So what is it to begin with?

01:41:02.760 --> 01:41:06.439
Is it a formal programming language or what is

01:41:06.439 --> 01:41:10.100
Lisp? Yeah, so it's a fully fledged programming

01:41:10.100 --> 01:41:14.140
language. So Lisp, generally speaking, is one

01:41:14.140 --> 01:41:17.939
of the oldest programming languages. In Emacs,

01:41:17.979 --> 01:41:20.880
what we use though is Emacs Lisp. It's a flavor

01:41:20.880 --> 01:41:25.319
of Lisp, as they say. So it's a flavor of Lisp

01:41:25.319 --> 01:41:28.680
specifically for Emacs, basically. But it's a

01:41:28.680 --> 01:41:30.380
fully -fledged programming language. You can

01:41:30.380 --> 01:41:32.760
do anything you imagine with it. So what I do

01:41:32.760 --> 01:41:37.420
in Lua, I could do in Lisp. Basically. Probably,

01:41:37.600 --> 01:41:40.300
yes. Whether it would be efficient or not, that's

01:41:40.300 --> 01:41:43.359
another thing. Actually, yesterday, I was talking

01:41:43.359 --> 01:41:48.659
to somebody who has to write code that compiles

01:41:48.659 --> 01:41:52.779
to Lua. Eventually, it has to be efficient and

01:41:52.779 --> 01:41:56.039
portable and all that stuff. And what he does

01:41:56.039 --> 01:41:59.760
is he uses this Lisp flavor, this Lisp dialect

01:41:59.760 --> 01:42:04.810
called Fennel, which is, you know... parentheses

01:42:04.810 --> 01:42:08.069
all over the place, but eventually becomes Lua.

01:42:08.229 --> 01:42:12.909
So when you cannot have Lisp, you figure a way

01:42:12.909 --> 01:42:16.229
to bring it into the fold. I had a call with

01:42:16.229 --> 01:42:18.609
one of the NeoVim core maintainers. His name

01:42:18.609 --> 01:42:21.569
is Greg. Actually, I have a call with him tomorrow.

01:42:22.250 --> 01:42:26.390
Yeah, he uses that Fennel. He doesn't like Lua

01:42:26.390 --> 01:42:31.680
at all. So he uses Fennel and NeoVim. Yeah, and

01:42:31.680 --> 01:42:33.779
actually that's one of the big things of the

01:42:33.779 --> 01:42:37.520
Clojure programming language, for example, which

01:42:37.520 --> 01:42:41.380
is like, well, the whole world uses Java and

01:42:41.380 --> 01:42:44.380
JavaScript, but wouldn't it be nice if they had

01:42:44.380 --> 01:42:51.220
more parentheses? So it stands Clojure. Now,

01:42:51.380 --> 01:42:56.500
one thing that I heard in the conversation that

01:42:56.500 --> 01:43:00.579
I had, the NeoVim versus Emacs video is, Something

01:43:00.579 --> 01:43:03.659
that both of the Emacs representatives, we could

01:43:03.659 --> 01:43:07.000
say that way, brought up is single threading

01:43:07.000 --> 01:43:10.359
and that there are some issues around that. Would

01:43:10.359 --> 01:43:13.180
you mind just elaborating about that? I don't

01:43:13.180 --> 01:43:15.680
understand how it works and all that. So can

01:43:15.680 --> 01:43:19.939
you clarify any of that? There is a technical

01:43:19.939 --> 01:43:24.909
understanding of single threading. which I think,

01:43:24.930 --> 01:43:27.689
strictly speaking, Emacs is not single -threaded.

01:43:27.729 --> 01:43:30.310
But I don't have the expertise to elaborate on

01:43:30.310 --> 01:43:32.569
that. But from what I understand by reading the

01:43:32.569 --> 01:43:36.909
mailing lists, is that it's not that it is Emacs

01:43:36.909 --> 01:43:41.210
not being capable of running things async. Rather,

01:43:41.630 --> 01:43:44.770
you have to think in terms of the model of Emacs,

01:43:44.869 --> 01:43:48.770
which is one global state. And now, how do you

01:43:48.770 --> 01:43:53.819
do async operations? while having a global state.

01:43:54.500 --> 01:43:58.180
So it's mostly a matter of paradigm rather than

01:43:58.180 --> 01:44:01.020
inherent constraints. In practice, of course,

01:44:01.079 --> 01:44:05.060
from a user's perspective, it means that if you

01:44:05.060 --> 01:44:08.819
run some kind of a long process that blocks Emacs,

01:44:08.979 --> 01:44:12.039
then yes, you cannot run other things in parallel.

01:44:12.840 --> 01:44:15.399
I would say, at least in my case, this is not

01:44:15.399 --> 01:44:18.659
common. Like, it's very rare that this happens.

01:44:19.650 --> 01:44:22.270
But depending on how you use Emacs, you may be

01:44:22.270 --> 01:44:24.949
in a situation where indeed you have a process

01:44:24.949 --> 01:44:27.069
that blocks Emacs and now you cannot use Emacs

01:44:27.069 --> 01:44:30.270
for anything else. You have to wait for that

01:44:30.270 --> 01:44:32.689
process to continue. And I would say, yes, in

01:44:32.689 --> 01:44:35.689
that regard, it's not a nice user experience.

01:44:36.350 --> 01:44:41.279
Okay. But I would say... Because it's easy to

01:44:41.279 --> 01:44:43.399
hear this and be like, okay, so basically we

01:44:43.399 --> 01:44:45.939
cannot use Emacs. It's useless. I would say that

01:44:45.939 --> 01:44:50.180
this is not the ordinary use case. I would say

01:44:50.180 --> 01:44:54.159
that you won't be sitting at your screen, sitting

01:44:54.159 --> 01:44:56.380
at your computer, watching the screen, waiting

01:44:56.380 --> 01:44:59.140
for Emacs to do stuff. It is responsive. You

01:44:59.140 --> 01:45:03.619
do stuff. And depending on what you do, you might

01:45:03.619 --> 01:45:06.359
have an issue where you have to wait. Okay. Do

01:45:06.359 --> 01:45:10.369
you have any issues with that at any times? To

01:45:10.369 --> 01:45:14.250
me, no. One use case where you would encounter

01:45:14.250 --> 01:45:17.109
that issue really quickly is if you were to use

01:45:17.109 --> 01:45:20.810
Emacs as a window manager. There is this package

01:45:20.810 --> 01:45:25.930
exwm. So if you have a single Emacs process and

01:45:25.930 --> 01:45:29.430
you want that process to drive your window management

01:45:29.430 --> 01:45:33.590
operations and also run all your Emacs, then

01:45:33.590 --> 01:45:36.489
yes, of course, I can see how that will be a

01:45:36.489 --> 01:45:40.220
problem. Because now imagine... some app blocks

01:45:40.220 --> 01:45:42.979
Emacs and now everything is blocked because,

01:45:43.079 --> 01:45:46.640
of course, it's all managed by one. But then,

01:45:46.800 --> 01:45:51.500
I don't think you gain that much by having Emacs

01:45:51.500 --> 01:45:53.560
as your window manager. So I would say, yes,

01:45:53.579 --> 01:45:57.979
sure, but you can avoid that problem. Okay, so

01:45:57.979 --> 01:46:00.979
just use a dedicated window manager then, right?

01:46:02.000 --> 01:46:05.520
And of course, yes, use a dedicated window manager.

01:46:05.600 --> 01:46:08.689
And of course, You can still drive it from Emacs

01:46:08.689 --> 01:46:10.810
because you can have all the scripts in Emacs

01:46:10.810 --> 01:46:14.329
and you can call them directly. But yeah, that's

01:46:14.329 --> 01:46:17.609
another discussion. Okay, awesome. Thanks for

01:46:17.609 --> 01:46:22.710
sharing that. You're welcome. I want to ask you

01:46:22.710 --> 01:46:26.250
a few more questions. If you have time, how much

01:46:26.250 --> 01:46:28.590
time do you have left? Do you have to... I have

01:46:28.590 --> 01:46:32.189
plenty of time, yeah. If the dogs rebel, you

01:46:32.189 --> 01:46:35.029
will hear them. Oh, it's fine. That's complete.

01:46:35.029 --> 01:46:36.890
Let me close the door, actually, because the

01:46:36.890 --> 01:46:38.930
puppies got inside. So let me close the door

01:46:38.930 --> 01:46:46.630
and I am here. And we come in. So, yes, I'm here.

01:46:47.170 --> 01:46:51.489
Okay. Now, talking about other topics, not only

01:46:51.489 --> 01:46:55.029
tech -related stuff, in some of your videos,

01:46:55.210 --> 01:46:59.960
you know, I noticed that you mentioned alcohol,

01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:03.260
that you don't do alcohol anymore. So I just

01:47:03.260 --> 01:47:07.000
wanted to ask you, because that's what you hear

01:47:07.000 --> 01:47:10.439
everywhere nowadays. You know, if I watch a movie

01:47:10.439 --> 01:47:14.079
on Netflix and a series, I see drugs being recommended

01:47:14.079 --> 01:47:16.760
everywhere, like marijuana. That's very common.

01:47:16.819 --> 01:47:19.880
And I used to do it a lot in the past. I don't

01:47:19.880 --> 01:47:22.539
do anymore. So what are your thoughts on alcohol

01:47:22.539 --> 01:47:27.789
and overall substance abuse? So, of course, you

01:47:27.789 --> 01:47:31.090
mentioned the word abuse. And I would say anything

01:47:31.090 --> 01:47:33.369
that you abuse, like literally anything, you

01:47:33.369 --> 01:47:37.050
could take water. If you abuse it, then, of course,

01:47:37.109 --> 01:47:40.109
it's harmful. So, obviously, anything you do

01:47:40.109 --> 01:47:45.779
to an exaggerated degree will be harmful. If

01:47:45.779 --> 01:47:48.979
you use it moderately, if you use it without

01:47:48.979 --> 01:47:52.979
overdoing it, then I am not against it. I'm not

01:47:52.979 --> 01:47:56.819
against alcohol and I am not against what is

01:47:56.819 --> 01:48:00.960
known as drugs in this case for marijuana. And

01:48:00.960 --> 01:48:03.439
I would even include psychedelics. I don't think

01:48:03.439 --> 01:48:06.479
they are drugs, but I would include them as well.

01:48:06.579 --> 01:48:09.000
Like if you use them moderately, if you know

01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:11.500
what you are doing, sure. But if you abuse them,

01:48:11.579 --> 01:48:14.000
then... Of course, you will be at the receiving

01:48:14.000 --> 01:48:18.039
end of harm, and that's not nice. Concretely,

01:48:18.039 --> 01:48:22.300
though, alcohol, the problem with alcohol in

01:48:22.300 --> 01:48:24.659
particular, at least in my part of the world,

01:48:24.779 --> 01:48:29.220
is that it is the conduit to socialization. Like,

01:48:29.279 --> 01:48:32.899
you go to a gathering, any gathering, it could

01:48:32.899 --> 01:48:38.520
be a wedding or... a baptism or any kind of event.

01:48:38.720 --> 01:48:41.359
Same here. What are you going to do? There's

01:48:41.359 --> 01:48:45.420
already wine and beer and whiskey and all the

01:48:45.420 --> 01:48:49.220
things. And if you don't drink, then everybody

01:48:49.220 --> 01:48:51.560
looks at you as if you are some kind of an alien.

01:48:51.640 --> 01:48:54.600
I'm like, what are you doing there? Are you some

01:48:54.600 --> 01:48:56.760
kind of a monk? Like, what is going on? Like,

01:48:56.760 --> 01:48:59.619
you should be drinking as well. So, of course,

01:48:59.619 --> 01:49:03.920
there is a lot of peer pressure. If you feel

01:49:03.920 --> 01:49:06.560
that pressure, then of course, either you submit

01:49:06.560 --> 01:49:09.239
to it or you don't socialize. So either way,

01:49:09.279 --> 01:49:13.659
it's not a good deal for you. If, however, you

01:49:13.659 --> 01:49:17.760
approach this the way I do, which is to make

01:49:17.760 --> 01:49:21.079
it clear that you are not judgmental, that you

01:49:21.079 --> 01:49:29.439
are not trying to be a prick and trying to criticize

01:49:29.439 --> 01:49:33.640
people for their choices. I think that it's totally

01:49:33.640 --> 01:49:37.180
okay. Like I go to places and people are like,

01:49:37.239 --> 01:49:40.340
hey, Prat, have a drink. Here is some wine. And

01:49:40.340 --> 01:49:42.779
I'm like, no, thank you. I used to drink, but

01:49:42.779 --> 01:49:47.560
it harmed me. I had issues and I quit. And basically

01:49:47.560 --> 01:49:51.380
my policy is zero alcohol from now on. People

01:49:51.380 --> 01:49:54.359
will be okay with that. But if you go there and

01:49:54.359 --> 01:49:56.640
you are apologetic about it and you're like,

01:49:56.739 --> 01:50:01.100
hey, I'm really sorry, my friend, but I just

01:50:01.100 --> 01:50:05.359
started not drinking and I don't mean to be offensive

01:50:05.359 --> 01:50:08.079
and please don't take it the wrong way, but I

01:50:08.079 --> 01:50:11.100
don't want. Then the other person will be like,

01:50:11.199 --> 01:50:14.319
oh, no, no, don't be shy. Here is some wine.

01:50:14.359 --> 01:50:18.020
Just one. Just one. Yeah, exactly. One. What

01:50:18.020 --> 01:50:20.680
can it do? Look, it's just this. And then, of

01:50:20.680 --> 01:50:27.300
course, they give you half a bottle. So there

01:50:27.300 --> 01:50:32.060
is that. If you can be resolute in your commitment

01:50:32.060 --> 01:50:35.359
to it, I think there is no problem with it. But

01:50:35.359 --> 01:50:39.539
always try to avoid not appearing, coming off

01:50:39.539 --> 01:50:47.140
as condescending or judgmental. Yeah. About other

01:50:47.140 --> 01:50:50.489
substances, though, if I may say. The thing with

01:50:50.489 --> 01:50:54.569
other substances is that, of course, if you are

01:50:54.569 --> 01:50:56.470
responsible and you know what you are doing,

01:50:56.569 --> 01:50:59.630
it's fine. But then the question is, will you

01:50:59.630 --> 01:51:02.550
be responsible and will you be able to control

01:51:02.550 --> 01:51:06.529
yourself when you are in a situation with people

01:51:06.529 --> 01:51:12.210
and like you are having some marijuana and then

01:51:12.210 --> 01:51:14.590
somebody suggests, yeah, here, have some cocaine,

01:51:14.789 --> 01:51:18.149
like just a little bit, right? And then... you

01:51:18.149 --> 01:51:20.449
are like, well, why not? We are just having fun.

01:51:20.569 --> 01:51:23.810
It's a good day here. So why not? And then, of

01:51:23.810 --> 01:51:25.949
course, you go down the slippery slope because

01:51:25.949 --> 01:51:29.729
if you think in terms of why not, then, of course,

01:51:29.750 --> 01:51:32.890
why not another, what do you call it, a line?

01:51:33.069 --> 01:51:35.409
And the third and the fourth, and then why not

01:51:35.409 --> 01:51:40.090
heroin and so on? So in principle, yes, if you

01:51:40.090 --> 01:51:43.369
control yourself, good. But in practice, it depends

01:51:43.369 --> 01:51:47.630
on who you are doing it with. Yeah. And... I

01:51:47.630 --> 01:51:50.109
guess your type of personality as well, because

01:51:50.109 --> 01:51:54.189
I know myself. I did it for many years, like

01:51:54.189 --> 01:51:56.930
10 years I did alcohol. It started with alcohol,

01:51:57.189 --> 01:51:59.510
you know. I didn't control it. It just got out

01:51:59.510 --> 01:52:02.970
of control quite fast, you know. And I did it

01:52:02.970 --> 01:52:06.069
first one day a week, then two days a week. Then

01:52:06.069 --> 01:52:08.310
I was doing it like four days a week, you know.

01:52:08.689 --> 01:52:13.390
And then I added other things into the mix, you

01:52:13.390 --> 01:52:18.239
know. I added marijuana. Given my personality,

01:52:18.659 --> 01:52:21.899
like it's really addictive personality, I would

01:52:21.899 --> 01:52:25.920
say. It didn't happen once. It happened twice.

01:52:25.939 --> 01:52:30.119
Then it happened daily. And then it started happening

01:52:30.119 --> 01:52:34.079
more than once a day, you know, smoking. And

01:52:34.079 --> 01:52:37.420
I didn't know depression. I hadn't known depression

01:52:37.420 --> 01:52:41.979
before that. But when I abused it, I got really

01:52:41.979 --> 01:52:44.720
depressed, you know. But I did it too much. And

01:52:44.720 --> 01:52:47.279
it affects, of course, your brain, definitely.

01:52:47.619 --> 01:52:53.699
And it took me a long time. Then I did other

01:52:53.699 --> 01:52:56.180
stuff as well. Along the way, I did other stuff.

01:52:56.220 --> 01:52:59.779
Cocaine, I did crystal. Man, it was... Yeah,

01:52:59.779 --> 01:53:09.920
crystal. But I don't know. I found a way to go

01:53:09.920 --> 01:53:13.100
out. It was not because of me, my wife. A lot

01:53:13.100 --> 01:53:18.899
of stuff happened. But I stopped, took me like

01:53:18.899 --> 01:53:22.199
a year or no, like six months, maybe a long time

01:53:22.199 --> 01:53:25.500
because I was too intoxicated by so much stuff.

01:53:25.640 --> 01:53:31.140
Took me quite some time to see the life, you

01:53:31.140 --> 01:53:35.420
know, in colors again. And when I stopped, it

01:53:35.420 --> 01:53:39.140
was hard. Everything was gray. I was really upset

01:53:39.140 --> 01:53:44.590
all the time, was really depressed. So I don't

01:53:44.590 --> 01:53:47.229
recommend that anymore. Based on my experience,

01:53:47.510 --> 01:53:52.170
you know, that's what I can talk. Yeah. Yeah,

01:53:52.770 --> 01:53:56.149
yeah, of course, of course. And I would say yours,

01:53:56.329 --> 01:54:00.390
even though you were not in control, sounds like

01:54:00.390 --> 01:54:03.909
a story with a good ending, right? A good resolution

01:54:03.909 --> 01:54:07.090
to it. Of course, there are people who basically

01:54:07.090 --> 01:54:10.409
never get out of it. Like you go down that vicious

01:54:10.409 --> 01:54:15.750
cycle and from alcohol to marijuana to crystal,

01:54:15.930 --> 01:54:21.409
etc., etc. And you don't find somebody such as

01:54:21.409 --> 01:54:24.949
your wife to help you and eventually to bring

01:54:24.949 --> 01:54:29.170
you back out of it. And me personally, I have

01:54:29.170 --> 01:54:33.380
friends who died. who died young, like I was

01:54:33.380 --> 01:54:37.119
18 and I have a friend who died. And others who

01:54:37.119 --> 01:54:41.819
went mad, like literally. And I'm like, yeah,

01:54:41.840 --> 01:54:44.960
why? Why would you do that to yourself? Like,

01:54:44.960 --> 01:54:50.000
why would we have abuse to the point of self

01:54:50.000 --> 01:54:53.420
-destruction? And the thing is, of course you

01:54:53.420 --> 01:54:57.319
destroy yourself. And you may say, it's my life,

01:54:57.380 --> 01:54:59.579
it's my body, I do whatever I want to it, right?

01:55:01.359 --> 01:55:04.760
At the surface level, that's true. But at another

01:55:04.760 --> 01:55:08.340
level, it's not just your body and then whatever

01:55:08.340 --> 01:55:10.000
you do to it, because, of course, you have to

01:55:10.000 --> 01:55:12.880
consider the consequences of your actions. Like,

01:55:12.899 --> 01:55:17.279
if you are, let's say, crazy, somebody will be

01:55:17.279 --> 01:55:19.079
taking care of you. Maybe it's your parents,

01:55:19.140 --> 01:55:22.000
and now your parents are elderly, and they can

01:55:22.000 --> 01:55:23.760
barely take care of themselves, and now they

01:55:23.760 --> 01:55:25.579
have to take care of you. Is that a nice thing

01:55:25.579 --> 01:55:28.920
for them? Or it's your brother, or your friends,

01:55:29.060 --> 01:55:32.520
or you are... Because you are not in control

01:55:32.520 --> 01:55:35.979
of yourself, you are abusing others in your community.

01:55:36.020 --> 01:55:38.539
Maybe you're abusing your girlfriend or whatever.

01:55:38.659 --> 01:55:42.920
Is that nice? So, of course, I would say that

01:55:42.920 --> 01:55:46.380
we have to also be mindful of that aspect of

01:55:46.380 --> 01:55:50.279
it as well. Yeah, definitely. There's something

01:55:50.279 --> 01:55:53.460
else that I wanted to ask you as well. What are

01:55:53.460 --> 01:55:56.899
your thoughts on, do you believe in like a supreme

01:55:56.899 --> 01:56:00.109
being or something? I don't know if you want

01:56:00.109 --> 01:56:03.210
to touch on that or not at all. I'm not happy,

01:56:03.289 --> 01:56:07.090
yeah, for sure. Look, one of the things of doing

01:56:07.090 --> 01:56:11.029
philosophy is that in principle, you discuss

01:56:11.029 --> 01:56:14.430
every topic, you entertain every idea seriously.

01:56:16.390 --> 01:56:18.369
Entertaining ideas doesn't mean that you adopt

01:56:18.369 --> 01:56:21.270
them, though. Like, we can discuss anything you

01:56:21.270 --> 01:56:24.090
imagine, like from the most basic thing to the

01:56:24.090 --> 01:56:26.529
most far -fetched conspiracy theory, whatever,

01:56:26.729 --> 01:56:29.470
right? It doesn't mean that I will agree with

01:56:29.470 --> 01:56:32.069
what I am saying, but for the sake of the discussion,

01:56:32.329 --> 01:56:35.229
for me to understand it, I will entertain the

01:56:35.229 --> 01:56:39.630
thought. And I am saying this, and I have to

01:56:39.630 --> 01:56:42.529
be careful to be clear that I do not adopt the

01:56:42.529 --> 01:56:45.489
view. I just entertain it for the sake of the

01:56:45.489 --> 01:56:48.850
discussion, for clarity. Anyway, to the point

01:56:48.850 --> 01:56:53.729
here, I would say that even if a supreme being

01:56:53.729 --> 01:56:57.800
doesn't exist, I think it is helpful to think

01:56:57.800 --> 01:57:00.760
that it does, to operate as if it does exist.

01:57:01.899 --> 01:57:05.720
And the reason I am saying this is because, like,

01:57:05.720 --> 01:57:10.899
fundamentally, you cannot prove that a supreme

01:57:10.899 --> 01:57:13.939
being exists, and more importantly, that the

01:57:13.939 --> 01:57:16.760
specific version of the supreme being that you

01:57:16.760 --> 01:57:20.260
believe in exists exactly in the way you believe

01:57:20.260 --> 01:57:23.619
it to exist. Because, and I give one example

01:57:23.619 --> 01:57:28.399
here. If the Christians are correct, of course,

01:57:28.420 --> 01:57:30.680
which of the Christians, like which denomination

01:57:30.680 --> 01:57:33.220
of the Christians, right? But let's say if the

01:57:33.220 --> 01:57:34.979
Christians are correct, then of course all the

01:57:34.979 --> 01:57:37.359
others are wrong. They cannot all be correct.

01:57:37.880 --> 01:57:40.479
But of course, if the Muslims are correct, then

01:57:40.479 --> 01:57:43.880
the Christians are all wrong. So what I'm saying

01:57:43.880 --> 01:57:46.739
is that maybe we cannot resolve this tension.

01:57:46.859 --> 01:57:50.479
We cannot say, okay, who is right? What I am

01:57:50.479 --> 01:57:52.840
saying, though, is that it is helpful to think

01:57:52.840 --> 01:57:57.060
that there exists a supreme being because you

01:57:57.060 --> 01:58:01.380
have something to think of as your highest standard

01:58:01.380 --> 01:58:05.539
in life. So if your supreme being or if, let's

01:58:05.539 --> 01:58:08.520
say, your highest standard in life is, let's

01:58:08.520 --> 01:58:11.300
say, somebody like Jesus, and you're like, okay,

01:58:11.359 --> 01:58:15.199
I have to have this kind of behavior in my life,

01:58:15.340 --> 01:58:19.579
and that's the standard. I think now you have

01:58:19.579 --> 01:58:25.920
a tutelary figure to guide your actions. Whereas

01:58:25.920 --> 01:58:28.760
if you don't have a tutelary figure, if you are

01:58:28.760 --> 01:58:32.539
like, well, it's all math and the world is all

01:58:32.539 --> 01:58:35.680
math, then you don't have something to guide

01:58:35.680 --> 01:58:38.359
your action. Of course, you could be a good person,

01:58:38.380 --> 01:58:40.239
but you could just as well be a serial killer.

01:58:40.300 --> 01:58:43.340
It's all math at the end of the day, right? It's

01:58:43.340 --> 01:58:45.949
all the same. Whereas if you have the notion

01:58:45.949 --> 01:58:50.789
of some supreme good, I think that informs and

01:58:50.789 --> 01:58:54.050
ultimately underpins what you are doing. And

01:58:54.050 --> 01:58:57.010
if you are consistent, or rather, if you are

01:58:57.010 --> 01:58:59.949
inconsistent, you know that you are inconsistent.

01:59:00.329 --> 01:59:02.850
Like, you know that you are deviating from the

01:59:02.850 --> 01:59:06.550
path that you declare to believe in, that you

01:59:06.550 --> 01:59:11.289
would want to commit to. And so you have... the

01:59:11.289 --> 01:59:14.329
northern star, the fixed point in the sky that

01:59:14.329 --> 01:59:20.130
resets you and guides you. So there is that.

01:59:20.210 --> 01:59:23.770
Now, whether it actually exists or not, I don't

01:59:23.770 --> 01:59:26.229
think that really matters. Like, if it exists,

01:59:26.369 --> 01:59:29.149
not believing in it doesn't change anything.

01:59:29.390 --> 01:59:31.710
Like, if I say gravity doesn't exist, well, it

01:59:31.710 --> 01:59:35.289
still exists. But if I say gravity exists, again,

01:59:35.350 --> 01:59:37.569
that doesn't matter because gravity won't change

01:59:37.569 --> 01:59:43.100
because I believed in it. What matters is how

01:59:43.100 --> 01:59:45.979
do I deal with my life? How do I deal with my

01:59:45.979 --> 01:59:49.159
surroundings? How do I deal with the people around

01:59:49.159 --> 01:59:53.460
me, with my environment more broadly? And so

01:59:53.460 --> 01:59:57.399
that's why I think it is helpful to have the

01:59:57.399 --> 02:00:00.039
load star, let's say, the northern star, the

02:00:00.039 --> 02:00:03.560
fixed point in the sky, this supreme good, this

02:00:03.560 --> 02:00:05.979
ideal, supreme being, however you want to call

02:00:05.979 --> 02:00:13.760
it. I used to think very differently. I used

02:00:13.760 --> 02:00:18.399
to be an agnostic, as people tend to call it

02:00:18.399 --> 02:00:21.920
nowadays, right? Agnostic or atheist. Those are

02:00:21.920 --> 02:00:26.220
the two, like, fashion, I don't know, terms,

02:00:26.380 --> 02:00:32.000
whatever they are. But given my, you know, condition

02:00:32.000 --> 02:00:34.159
in the past, what I mentioned, you know, alcohol,

02:00:34.460 --> 02:00:37.319
drugs and all that stuff, I was completely lost,

02:00:37.560 --> 02:00:41.520
you know? Someday... A guy jumped into a bus

02:00:41.520 --> 02:00:43.800
with a little book, you know. I'm in Guatemala

02:00:43.800 --> 02:00:47.720
and here Christianity is the predominant religion,

02:00:47.960 --> 02:00:51.960
right? Everything is Christian stuff. But one

02:00:51.960 --> 02:00:55.340
day, I'm not into Christianity. I was, you know,

02:00:55.380 --> 02:00:58.899
born and raised that way, you know, as a Christian.

02:00:58.960 --> 02:01:02.979
But it just didn't click with me. But one day

02:01:02.979 --> 02:01:05.500
someone got into a bus and had a little book

02:01:05.500 --> 02:01:08.319
from India. It's called the Bhagavad Gita. I

02:01:08.319 --> 02:01:12.609
don't know how to. say it correctly. And my wife

02:01:12.609 --> 02:01:14.670
bought it because she had heard about the book.

02:01:14.710 --> 02:01:17.130
It was a pocket version, a really small book,

02:01:17.270 --> 02:01:20.590
you know, because the original is quite big,

02:01:20.750 --> 02:01:23.750
right? She bought it, she started reading it

02:01:23.750 --> 02:01:28.710
and she was like, man, there is something in

02:01:28.710 --> 02:01:31.890
this book that I'm connecting to and it's explaining

02:01:31.890 --> 02:01:34.510
a lot of stuff and it happened 5 ,000 years ago

02:01:34.510 --> 02:01:36.970
and I was like, whatever, right? I didn't pay

02:01:36.970 --> 02:01:40.710
attention and she, changed a little bit. And

02:01:40.710 --> 02:01:43.930
I was like, curious. And I was like, let me read

02:01:43.930 --> 02:01:48.130
it. I know you're just talking BS. I'll read

02:01:48.130 --> 02:01:50.369
it. See what you're talking about. I used to

02:01:50.369 --> 02:01:52.689
smoke a lot and drink and all that. I started

02:01:52.689 --> 02:01:57.850
reading it and it changed. I don't know. Something

02:01:57.850 --> 02:02:02.930
changed in me. And I haven't done alcohol, drugs.

02:02:03.229 --> 02:02:05.590
I'm not saying that is the cure, you know, because

02:02:06.560 --> 02:02:09.640
I'm just saying what happened to me personally,

02:02:09.880 --> 02:02:14.420
you know. I cannot explain it. I don't know if

02:02:14.420 --> 02:02:18.479
that is the definition of a supreme being, but

02:02:18.479 --> 02:02:23.000
it did help me personally. And I'm really thankful

02:02:23.000 --> 02:02:28.239
for that, you know. So now I view life in a different

02:02:28.239 --> 02:02:31.960
way. I'm not as close as I used to be because

02:02:31.960 --> 02:02:36.189
I owe a lot, you know, to that book and to the

02:02:36.189 --> 02:02:39.750
culture itself, because that is the one that

02:02:39.750 --> 02:02:44.470
clicked with me specifically, right? And I even

02:02:44.470 --> 02:02:49.010
became a vegetarian, you know? And just to put

02:02:49.010 --> 02:02:51.909
a little bit of context, nobody here in Guatemala,

02:02:51.989 --> 02:02:55.569
well, a small portion of the population know

02:02:55.569 --> 02:02:59.409
about Krishna and all that, you know, all that

02:02:59.409 --> 02:03:05.760
stuff. It's really rare, you know, that someone

02:03:05.760 --> 02:03:08.380
talks about Krishna and all that stuff here where

02:03:08.380 --> 02:03:11.939
I'm at, because everyone is Jesus and Christian

02:03:11.939 --> 02:03:14.680
stuff and all that. I respect it as long as it

02:03:14.680 --> 02:03:17.720
makes them better people, you know, everyone

02:03:17.720 --> 02:03:22.279
can believe on what they want. But I just wanted

02:03:22.279 --> 02:03:25.859
to share that, you know, I don't know. And I

02:03:25.859 --> 02:03:28.399
think you're the right qualifier, as long as

02:03:28.399 --> 02:03:32.399
it makes them better people, right? And I want

02:03:32.399 --> 02:03:34.659
to ask you something about your case, but just

02:03:34.659 --> 02:03:36.739
to comment on this, because, of course, if you

02:03:36.739 --> 02:03:40.939
have a supreme being which justifies your viciousness,

02:03:41.140 --> 02:03:45.060
whether it is to go and to colonize other lands

02:03:45.060 --> 02:03:47.739
and to enslave people and brutalize everyone,

02:03:47.859 --> 02:03:51.159
and you say, oh, it's God's will. No, my friend,

02:03:51.199 --> 02:03:54.199
sorry, but I don't agree with that. Me neither.

02:03:55.079 --> 02:03:58.399
So, of course, if it's... Something that inspires

02:03:58.399 --> 02:04:01.220
you to do good. But I want to ask you about your

02:04:01.220 --> 02:04:08.039
case. Can you think of something that inspired

02:04:08.039 --> 02:04:12.720
you in particular there? Or was it the general,

02:04:12.859 --> 02:04:17.079
let's say, vibe of it, which was like, well,

02:04:17.119 --> 02:04:19.380
there is some depth here. These are not just

02:04:19.380 --> 02:04:23.319
people who don't have control of their life.

02:04:24.359 --> 02:04:29.109
They just... suffer as it were purposely like

02:04:29.109 --> 02:04:33.770
what helped me change like okay so like by reading

02:04:33.770 --> 02:04:36.890
there like did you find let's say some scene

02:04:36.890 --> 02:04:40.050
or some character or some statement which was

02:04:40.050 --> 02:04:44.829
like this is deep you know yeah the way that

02:04:44.829 --> 02:04:48.829
is written it's so authoritative is that the

02:04:48.829 --> 02:04:52.710
right way to pronounce it because have you heard

02:04:52.710 --> 02:04:55.750
have you heard about that book the Bhagavad Gita?

02:04:55.949 --> 02:04:59.329
I have heard it and I mean to read it, but I

02:04:59.329 --> 02:05:03.550
haven't. Okay. Okay. So I guess that what caught

02:05:03.550 --> 02:05:09.770
me is the authoritative way that Krishna speaks

02:05:09.770 --> 02:05:13.909
to Arjuna, right? Arjuna is me, right? Because

02:05:13.909 --> 02:05:15.970
Arjuna didn't want to fight because he had to

02:05:15.970 --> 02:05:20.229
kill all his, the band on the other side, right?

02:05:20.329 --> 02:05:23.510
Man, it's a crazy story, but he didn't want to

02:05:23.510 --> 02:05:28.020
fight. So the way that Krishna talks to him is

02:05:28.020 --> 02:05:32.220
what got me. Not the battle, because the Bhagavad

02:05:32.220 --> 02:05:35.000
Gita is just a section of a bigger book called

02:05:35.000 --> 02:05:40.119
Mahabharata. I also read that one. Yeah, I love

02:05:40.119 --> 02:05:43.840
the story, man. They had a brother. It's called

02:05:43.840 --> 02:05:47.060
Radeya, but they didn't know it was their brother.

02:05:47.199 --> 02:05:49.899
They had to kill him. Man, I love that book.

02:05:49.979 --> 02:05:54.569
But the way that Krishna speaks to Arjuna, I

02:05:54.569 --> 02:05:58.170
just felt that it was speaking to me and it applied

02:05:58.170 --> 02:06:01.250
to my life, you know, and it explained a lot

02:06:01.250 --> 02:06:03.810
of stuff, you know, that this body is not our

02:06:03.810 --> 02:06:06.909
body. It's just something material. What matters

02:06:06.909 --> 02:06:10.289
is the essence, the soul, right? And you don't

02:06:10.289 --> 02:06:12.789
have to care about the outcome, you know, just

02:06:12.789 --> 02:06:17.090
do the things that you have to do. So I don't

02:06:17.090 --> 02:06:21.069
know. And the wisdom, I don't know. I cannot

02:06:21.069 --> 02:06:25.319
explain it, but I felt it too. you know, decisive

02:06:25.319 --> 02:06:29.119
to authoritative, however that's pronounced.

02:06:29.539 --> 02:06:33.180
And it just, the instructions went right into

02:06:33.180 --> 02:06:38.500
me. And, you know, I don't know. I don't know.

02:06:39.800 --> 02:06:43.119
And I think, yeah, of course, there is the salient

02:06:43.119 --> 02:06:46.359
point that we say, which is what is being talked

02:06:46.359 --> 02:06:48.899
about, right? What is being said. But there is

02:06:48.899 --> 02:06:52.600
also the way it is said. Like exactly when it

02:06:52.600 --> 02:06:57.560
is spoken with authority. And I think maybe it

02:06:57.560 --> 02:07:00.119
also speaks to our culture nowadays, which I

02:07:00.119 --> 02:07:02.800
think you have in Guatemala as well, like we

02:07:02.800 --> 02:07:05.560
have here, which is a culture where everybody

02:07:05.560 --> 02:07:09.340
is disconnected from everybody else. We are connected

02:07:09.340 --> 02:07:13.079
in internet terms, but as individuals, we're

02:07:13.079 --> 02:07:16.279
kind of lost. And I think part of this is that

02:07:16.279 --> 02:07:19.989
we don't have authorities. around us. Like you

02:07:19.989 --> 02:07:22.029
may have some authority in the sense that there

02:07:22.029 --> 02:07:24.710
is somebody online that you respect, but you

02:07:24.710 --> 02:07:26.829
don't interact with that person every day. It's

02:07:26.829 --> 02:07:30.369
not like a role model that is living and breathing

02:07:30.369 --> 02:07:33.489
next to you and you can see and you can emulate

02:07:33.489 --> 02:07:37.409
and you can learn from and you can feel that

02:07:37.409 --> 02:07:41.609
this person has your back. Yeah. So maybe there

02:07:41.609 --> 02:07:44.710
is that part as well, because I see this a lot

02:07:44.710 --> 02:07:47.289
and I also saw it with myself where it's like,

02:07:48.460 --> 02:07:50.760
What's the point? I don't have a point of reference.

02:07:51.100 --> 02:07:54.000
My only reference is some ancient book. Yeah,

02:07:54.000 --> 02:07:58.180
and that had to do a lot as well. The people

02:07:58.180 --> 02:08:01.180
that were selling those books, they had a small

02:08:01.180 --> 02:08:03.899
temple here in Guatemala. They were just selling

02:08:03.899 --> 02:08:06.659
the books. They just call it, you know, giving

02:08:06.659 --> 02:08:11.239
service or service, something like that. And

02:08:11.239 --> 02:08:15.659
I went, my wife and I went to that temple just

02:08:15.659 --> 02:08:18.600
to see what it was about, right? And I found

02:08:18.600 --> 02:08:22.640
completely different people to what I had found

02:08:22.640 --> 02:08:26.960
here. They say something in the church and they

02:08:26.960 --> 02:08:30.380
do something differently. In that small temple,

02:08:30.479 --> 02:08:34.460
they did what they said. And that to me was priceless.

02:08:34.600 --> 02:08:39.100
And I was like, so you can live by the things

02:08:39.100 --> 02:08:42.680
that you preach. And I really admire that. And

02:08:42.680 --> 02:08:46.220
that had to do a lot as well. If I would have

02:08:46.220 --> 02:08:49.359
gone into the temple, and people there would

02:08:49.359 --> 02:08:53.000
have been hypocritical, it wouldn't have been

02:08:53.000 --> 02:08:56.479
the same, I think. I'm not sure. I think it has

02:08:56.479 --> 02:08:59.960
to do as well. It has to do. It definitely has

02:08:59.960 --> 02:09:03.000
to do because it's something that I see as well.

02:09:03.020 --> 02:09:06.020
And exactly what you said is how I feel about

02:09:06.020 --> 02:09:09.199
the specific denomination of Christianity here,

02:09:09.340 --> 02:09:13.579
which is that they will preach forgiveness, for

02:09:13.579 --> 02:09:16.239
example. And I'm like, well. The salient point

02:09:16.239 --> 02:09:19.479
I agree with, but I don't see you being exactly

02:09:19.479 --> 02:09:21.640
consistent with what you are saying. Like you

02:09:21.640 --> 02:09:24.640
don't forgive anybody. Like things happened 30

02:09:24.640 --> 02:09:26.960
years ago. You still hold on to that grudge.

02:09:27.680 --> 02:09:30.140
You should be forgiving people. You say that

02:09:30.140 --> 02:09:31.880
people should be forgiving people. You are not

02:09:31.880 --> 02:09:34.460
doing it. What am I supposed to believe? Like

02:09:34.460 --> 02:09:37.460
you are not convincing. And which is exactly

02:09:37.460 --> 02:09:41.020
that. Like when you see people being the embodiment

02:09:41.020 --> 02:09:44.229
of their values. There comes a point where you

02:09:44.229 --> 02:09:47.109
don't even need to hear what the values are because

02:09:47.109 --> 02:09:50.029
you see them. When you see somebody who is disciplined,

02:09:50.189 --> 02:09:54.729
you don't need to ask them, hey, are you disciplined?

02:09:54.829 --> 02:09:57.630
Because you see it. They will show up at the

02:09:57.630 --> 02:10:00.029
right time. They will do things the right way.

02:10:00.189 --> 02:10:02.890
They will not mess around. They will always be

02:10:02.890 --> 02:10:05.050
professional about it. They will always be a

02:10:05.050 --> 02:10:07.770
model citizen, as it were. That sort of thing.

02:10:07.810 --> 02:10:10.819
This you see. You don't need to be... something

02:10:10.819 --> 02:10:13.100
on your chest and saying, you know, oh, look

02:10:13.100 --> 02:10:16.000
how disciplined I am. You know, I am very good.

02:10:17.420 --> 02:10:19.720
And I would actually say, like, as a rule of

02:10:19.720 --> 02:10:23.779
thumb, people who are really loud and vociferous

02:10:23.779 --> 02:10:26.800
about their qualities and their values and who

02:10:26.800 --> 02:10:30.359
they are and what they do, usually they are compensating.

02:10:30.380 --> 02:10:32.500
They are not actually what they claim to be.

02:10:32.560 --> 02:10:36.739
They are much less. But I would say it's a rule

02:10:36.739 --> 02:10:39.739
of thumb, not to say that it's 100 % true, but...

02:10:40.390 --> 02:10:43.810
It's a good starting point. Yeah, I agree. Completely

02:10:43.810 --> 02:10:48.270
agree with that for sure. Definitely. Yeah. I

02:10:48.270 --> 02:10:52.630
like that conversation. Really, really appreciate

02:10:52.630 --> 02:10:55.470
the philosophy aspect of it. You know, I like

02:10:55.470 --> 02:10:57.789
that about your videos, you know, and what are

02:10:57.789 --> 02:11:00.189
your thoughts on material stuff? Because I watched

02:11:00.189 --> 02:11:02.149
the video in which you were like moving your

02:11:02.149 --> 02:11:05.550
mountain, right? You were working to, you know,

02:11:05.590 --> 02:11:10.100
making a mountain and all that stuff. Of course,

02:11:10.140 --> 02:11:12.140
this could also be described in more abstract

02:11:12.140 --> 02:11:15.579
terms about our being and stuff. But very concretely,

02:11:15.600 --> 02:11:19.859
I think, because even if we have a spirit, right,

02:11:19.939 --> 02:11:21.560
like what you mentioned earlier, we still have

02:11:21.560 --> 02:11:28.039
a body. And part of what the body has is a lot

02:11:28.039 --> 02:11:31.760
of energy to do stuff. And we can describe this

02:11:31.760 --> 02:11:37.100
as the capacity to do damage or the capacity

02:11:37.100 --> 02:11:42.750
to break stuff. And if you never channel that

02:11:42.750 --> 02:11:45.449
capacity, if you don't have an outlet for that,

02:11:45.489 --> 02:11:49.710
that is benign, like if you don't go and exercise,

02:11:49.970 --> 02:11:52.470
if you don't go and explore the world, if you

02:11:52.470 --> 02:11:57.170
don't go and do some manual labor, I think all

02:11:57.170 --> 02:12:01.350
that pent -up energy will eventually be expressed

02:12:01.350 --> 02:12:05.670
in a way that is harmful. So for me, working

02:12:05.670 --> 02:12:09.470
with the land or going for a walk or anyhow doing

02:12:09.470 --> 02:12:12.789
physical stuff involving the body is important

02:12:12.789 --> 02:12:16.369
also in the sense of being calm and peaceful.

02:12:17.149 --> 02:12:20.609
Like it contributes to my stability as a person.

02:12:20.789 --> 02:12:24.109
And of course it has all the benefits of being

02:12:24.109 --> 02:12:28.210
physically fit and your heart rate is good and

02:12:28.210 --> 02:12:31.409
you get sunshine so you have vitamin D or whatever.

02:12:31.630 --> 02:12:34.380
All these... Of course, there are things we know

02:12:34.380 --> 02:12:37.079
about which are benign, but also this idea, because

02:12:37.079 --> 02:12:39.960
I don't know if you have ever interacted with

02:12:39.960 --> 02:12:42.199
dogs, but it's something you see with dogs, for

02:12:42.199 --> 02:12:45.380
example. If they don't go for a walk, like my

02:12:45.380 --> 02:12:47.279
puppies here, if they don't go for a walk, they

02:12:47.279 --> 02:12:50.340
are agitated. They are like, like they are really

02:12:50.340 --> 02:12:53.199
stressed. And if you keep them there, eventually

02:12:53.199 --> 02:12:56.960
they become aggressive and they become more or

02:12:56.960 --> 02:13:01.720
less dangerous. But, and yes, true to the point.

02:13:02.199 --> 02:13:05.899
But if you give them the outlet, they are calm.

02:13:06.680 --> 02:13:11.579
Like the tired dog is the good dog. The tired

02:13:11.579 --> 02:13:15.880
man is the good man by extension. Yeah, good,

02:13:15.960 --> 02:13:18.500
good point. Makes sense. What are your thoughts

02:13:18.500 --> 02:13:21.479
on material things? Like, you know, we live in

02:13:21.479 --> 02:13:23.520
a material world right now and everything is

02:13:23.520 --> 02:13:27.279
belongings, you know. I'm a materialist. I must

02:13:27.279 --> 02:13:31.300
admit, I love Apple stuff, a computer, the phone.

02:13:31.460 --> 02:13:35.159
There are tools that help me do my stuff. That's

02:13:35.159 --> 02:13:37.020
what allows me to record these videos and all

02:13:37.020 --> 02:13:41.300
that stuff. Microphone, keyboard, monitor, watch.

02:13:41.619 --> 02:13:45.520
What are your thoughts on material stuff? I think

02:13:45.520 --> 02:13:49.560
materials have to be separated in two categories.

02:13:49.739 --> 02:13:53.930
So one is your belongings. which is the tools

02:13:53.930 --> 02:13:56.250
you need to do your work, the place you have

02:13:56.250 --> 02:13:58.909
to live, that sort of thing. And then two would

02:13:58.909 --> 02:14:03.609
be property beyond that. And for me, I would

02:14:03.609 --> 02:14:05.930
say belongings, yes, you should have all your

02:14:05.930 --> 02:14:09.090
belongings. Like you shouldn't be in a state

02:14:09.090 --> 02:14:13.829
of precarity, in a state where a little tweak

02:14:13.829 --> 02:14:16.909
in the world and you are finished, you are homeless.

02:14:17.210 --> 02:14:20.399
Like you shouldn't be in that situation. So your

02:14:20.399 --> 02:14:22.359
belongings should be secure. You should have

02:14:22.359 --> 02:14:26.659
all the things to do to live decently. But beyond

02:14:26.659 --> 02:14:29.279
that, if you tell me, hey, I'm a materialist,

02:14:29.300 --> 02:14:32.640
therefore I claim all this mountain for myself

02:14:32.640 --> 02:14:36.500
and I will enslave everybody here and blah, blah,

02:14:36.500 --> 02:14:39.079
blah. Then I'm like, yeah, this kind of material.

02:14:39.279 --> 02:14:41.819
No, I don't agree with that. But the belongings,

02:14:41.899 --> 02:14:47.270
yes, for sure. Okay, okay. So for me, it's that.

02:14:47.649 --> 02:14:51.989
You could call it greed, but I don't think that's

02:14:51.989 --> 02:14:55.470
the right word. I would say it's mostly a matter

02:14:55.470 --> 02:15:00.689
of what is sustainable for you and for others.

02:15:02.090 --> 02:15:04.810
If everybody wants to claim the mountain, then

02:15:04.810 --> 02:15:08.409
eventually the only option is conflict. It's

02:15:08.409 --> 02:15:11.630
war. Like, if you want the mountain and I want

02:15:11.630 --> 02:15:15.350
the mountain, well, someone has to die. So that's

02:15:15.350 --> 02:15:19.090
not really sustainable for everyone. Makes sense.

02:15:19.390 --> 02:15:24.210
Okay. Let me, let me, if you have another topic,

02:15:24.270 --> 02:15:26.569
let me open the door to the puppy. Yeah, it's

02:15:26.569 --> 02:15:29.329
fine. I have a few more questions. Yep. Yeah,

02:15:29.329 --> 02:15:33.149
so let me open the door to the puppy and give

02:15:33.149 --> 02:15:35.390
me a second. Give me a second to also do something

02:15:35.390 --> 02:15:55.460
there for the other dog. Go ahead. Because, of

02:15:55.460 --> 02:15:57.779
course, they will be active now. So, yeah, I

02:15:57.779 --> 02:16:04.340
prepared everything. Oh, okay. Okay. I just have

02:16:04.340 --> 02:16:10.560
a few other questions. And going back to your,

02:16:10.579 --> 02:16:15.060
going back to technical stuff. One second, one

02:16:15.060 --> 02:16:16.699
second, because the puppies are not going outside.

02:16:16.739 --> 02:16:25.619
Let me take them out. Okay, okay, okay. And by

02:16:25.619 --> 02:16:28.319
the way, I don't know. Oh, you have it there.

02:16:29.220 --> 02:16:38.959
Yeah, one second. I leave them here. Yes, please.

02:16:39.200 --> 02:16:44.799
So I'm back. Okay. Now, your thoughts on what

02:16:44.799 --> 02:16:48.920
everyone is talking about lately. AI. Do you

02:16:48.920 --> 02:16:51.040
use AI? Are you in favor? What are your thoughts

02:16:51.040 --> 02:16:54.600
on it? I'm not against. Let's start with that.

02:16:54.829 --> 02:16:57.889
I see it as a tool, and as with every tool, it

02:16:57.889 --> 02:17:00.329
has use cases which are good and use cases which

02:17:00.329 --> 02:17:02.750
are bad. Like, think of a hammer for a second.

02:17:03.729 --> 02:17:07.229
A hammer is a tool that if you hold the wrong

02:17:07.229 --> 02:17:09.489
way, so if you hold it very close to where the

02:17:09.489 --> 02:17:14.809
metal is, you know, you will harm yourself. So

02:17:14.809 --> 02:17:17.590
is it because the tool is bad? No, it's because

02:17:17.590 --> 02:17:20.790
you are doing it wrong. And the same is true

02:17:20.790 --> 02:17:23.930
for AI. If you use it the wrong way, you will...

02:17:24.159 --> 02:17:27.440
farm yourself, maybe not literally, but you will

02:17:27.440 --> 02:17:31.360
be doing something not good, not useful. If,

02:17:31.360 --> 02:17:34.000
however, you use the tool in a way that augments

02:17:34.000 --> 02:17:37.620
what you are capable of, then sure, yes. Like

02:17:37.620 --> 02:17:41.639
I have seen people who use AI, like coding assistants,

02:17:42.159 --> 02:17:47.139
to refactor code in a way that is quick and efficient.

02:17:47.399 --> 02:17:50.239
And I'm like, yeah, this is a compelling use

02:17:50.239 --> 02:17:53.569
case. That's very good. And then I have seen

02:17:53.569 --> 02:17:57.309
people who use it to ask about issues that the

02:17:57.309 --> 02:18:00.569
AI has no business knowing about, and then the

02:18:00.569 --> 02:18:04.010
AI will eventually hallucinate, and then I don't

02:18:04.010 --> 02:18:06.430
know who is benefiting from that, like nobody.

02:18:08.469 --> 02:18:12.030
Okay. So you use it as a tool, depending on how

02:18:12.030 --> 02:18:14.909
you use it, right? Yeah. It's a tool, use it

02:18:14.909 --> 02:18:18.170
for what it's meant to do, and it's good. But

02:18:18.170 --> 02:18:21.370
as with everything, don't assume that you have

02:18:21.370 --> 02:18:26.420
the, The panacea, as we say, which is the one

02:18:26.420 --> 02:18:31.799
thing that cures everything. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

02:18:32.280 --> 02:18:34.799
What layout do you use on your keyboard, by the

02:18:34.799 --> 02:18:39.219
way? Is it QWERTY? So it's QWERTY, yes. I tried

02:18:39.219 --> 02:18:43.899
the Cold Mac for a little while, but it was severely

02:18:43.899 --> 02:18:46.659
harming my productivity and I really needed to

02:18:46.659 --> 02:18:49.899
get stuff done. Maybe I will revisit that topic

02:18:49.899 --> 02:18:52.920
at some point because I understand the value

02:18:52.920 --> 02:18:56.579
of an alternative keyboard layout. Okay, okay.

02:18:56.700 --> 02:19:01.079
The final question that I have here is what is

02:19:01.079 --> 02:19:04.579
the best way to support you monetarily? Like,

02:19:04.579 --> 02:19:07.219
do you have any recurring options like a patron

02:19:07.219 --> 02:19:10.120
or something where people can just have a recurring

02:19:10.120 --> 02:19:14.889
option? Okay. One -time donations are good. You

02:19:14.889 --> 02:19:16.770
know, you're not going to say no to a one -time

02:19:16.770 --> 02:19:20.510
donation, but you don't eat once a month, right?

02:19:20.590 --> 02:19:24.489
You don't give food to your animals once a month.

02:19:25.450 --> 02:19:29.329
So I think recurring options are just a nicer

02:19:29.329 --> 02:19:32.069
way. That's just my personal opinion, right?

02:19:32.149 --> 02:19:36.809
So what is the best way to support you? So what

02:19:36.809 --> 02:19:40.350
I normally do is I tell people that we could

02:19:40.350 --> 02:19:43.069
do coaching. So if they want to support me, they

02:19:43.069 --> 02:19:44.889
can give me some money for coaching, but get

02:19:44.889 --> 02:19:48.809
something in return. That's the idea. Like we

02:19:48.809 --> 02:19:51.750
could do anything about Emacs or just a discussion

02:19:51.750 --> 02:19:54.290
like this one. It could be like that. But if

02:19:54.290 --> 02:19:56.209
they don't care about coaching and they still

02:19:56.209 --> 02:19:57.989
want to give me money, of course, there is the

02:19:57.989 --> 02:20:01.309
one -time donations. Otherwise, for a recurring

02:20:01.309 --> 02:20:04.809
option, they would have to go to GitHub or Libera

02:20:04.809 --> 02:20:08.600
Pay. and do it via those platforms. I haven't

02:20:08.600 --> 02:20:11.200
checked Patreon. Like, in principle, I'm not

02:20:11.200 --> 02:20:13.360
against it. I just haven't had the time to look

02:20:13.360 --> 02:20:16.200
at the various options. Okay. So in GitHub, if

02:20:16.200 --> 02:20:17.920
someone wants to set up a recurring donation,

02:20:18.180 --> 02:20:21.180
they can do it there in GitHub, right? Mm -hmm.

02:20:21.280 --> 02:20:24.340
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. There are people who

02:20:24.340 --> 02:20:27.020
do that already, though usually it's tied to

02:20:27.020 --> 02:20:29.799
coaching. Like, we will meet, let's say, every

02:20:29.799 --> 02:20:32.059
Monday, and then they are like, okay, let me

02:20:32.059 --> 02:20:34.959
set up GitHub for that. And then we also meet

02:20:34.959 --> 02:20:38.139
every Monday. But really it's for them to do

02:20:38.139 --> 02:20:41.540
the donation and then they get something in return.

02:20:42.360 --> 02:20:47.479
Awesome. Okay, awesome. Now, anything you want

02:20:47.479 --> 02:20:50.559
to talk about or anything before we wrap it up?

02:20:50.600 --> 02:20:51.979
Is there anything you would like to discuss?

02:20:53.310 --> 02:20:56.370
Yeah, yeah. Because we covered Emacs as well

02:20:56.370 --> 02:21:00.190
as general life issues, I would say that here

02:21:00.190 --> 02:21:03.649
there is an element, a thread that runs through

02:21:03.649 --> 02:21:08.610
everything. And I think it is the idea of being

02:21:08.610 --> 02:21:12.270
considerate, being mindful of what it is you

02:21:12.270 --> 02:21:14.389
are doing, what it is you are doing with your

02:21:14.389 --> 02:21:16.010
computer, what it is you are doing with your

02:21:16.010 --> 02:21:19.250
life. And I think the kind of person who wants

02:21:19.250 --> 02:21:22.340
to control their computer So to use Emacs or

02:21:22.340 --> 02:21:26.360
NeoVim in a way that makes sense to them, I think

02:21:26.360 --> 02:21:28.680
it's the same mindset that then applies to life.

02:21:28.940 --> 02:21:31.540
Like you want to control your computer, but you

02:21:31.540 --> 02:21:33.200
don't want to control your life. That would make

02:21:33.200 --> 02:21:35.799
no sense. You see what I'm saying? So I would

02:21:35.799 --> 02:21:38.579
say that eventually what happens is that this

02:21:38.579 --> 02:21:42.299
kind of integrated view we have of the computer,

02:21:42.479 --> 02:21:46.079
we eventually have it for our life. And then

02:21:46.079 --> 02:21:49.370
we think of... Like, okay, what do I eat? How

02:21:49.370 --> 02:21:52.709
do I behave? Where do I live? What my consumption

02:21:52.709 --> 02:21:58.329
is like? How can I be an example to be followed?

02:21:58.829 --> 02:22:04.469
How can I embody the values that I aspire to

02:22:04.469 --> 02:22:09.969
have? Or how can I, how can anyhow I embody what

02:22:09.969 --> 02:22:13.409
I claim? That sort of thing. And I think basically

02:22:13.409 --> 02:22:17.739
it's integration. Being holistic in that regard,

02:22:17.799 --> 02:22:24.620
all -encompassing. Okay, amazing. Okay, I'm going

02:22:24.620 --> 02:22:29.059
to leave a link to your YouTube channel, also

02:22:29.059 --> 02:22:34.000
to your website, right? In the video description.

02:22:34.260 --> 02:22:37.739
I just wanted to thank you for your time, Prat.

02:22:37.840 --> 02:22:41.100
I love your videos. You're welcome. Yeah, appreciate

02:22:41.100 --> 02:22:44.620
all of that knowledge. Just wanted to say thanks.

02:22:44.620 --> 02:22:47.020
Thank you very much. Thank you. And just to say,

02:22:47.120 --> 02:22:50.260
well done with everything you do and keep doing

02:22:50.260 --> 02:22:52.760
it. And I have watched a few videos and I already

02:22:52.760 --> 02:22:56.719
downloaded more to watch. There is that. Very

02:22:56.719 --> 02:23:01.559
interesting. We have to do a round two, NeoVim

02:23:01.559 --> 02:23:04.799
versus Emacs. And it would be nice if you could

02:23:04.799 --> 02:23:10.020
join as an Emacs. In principle, count me in,

02:23:10.040 --> 02:23:12.760
of course. depending on the hours and all that.

02:23:12.940 --> 02:23:16.340
But in principle, yes. Awesome. All right, Prat.

02:23:16.399 --> 02:23:18.899
Thank you very much. Hope you have a great rest

02:23:18.899 --> 02:23:22.299
of your day. Take care. Take care. Goodbye. Goodbye.

02:23:22.579 --> 02:23:27.159
Bye. Notice how I was able to jump to this DMACC

02:23:27.159 --> 02:23:30.520
session here. And the reason you're here is because

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I want to thank the different YouTube members.

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You should be able to see their names listed

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here. The first CEO that joined Web2 .3. webto3

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.com we have three executive producers and the

02:23:44.010 --> 02:23:46.530
other youtube members i also want to thank the

02:23:46.530 --> 02:23:49.149
people that have donated in ko -fi if you like

02:23:49.149 --> 02:23:52.069
my videos remember that you can consider becoming

02:23:52.069 --> 02:23:55.309
a member that is what helps keep the channel

02:23:55.309 --> 02:23:58.930
going remember that if you like this video give

02:23:58.930 --> 02:24:02.030
it a thumbs up that just tells youtube that the

02:24:02.030 --> 02:24:05.989
video is interesting for other people leave comments

02:24:06.790 --> 02:24:09.209
Watch the entire thing because that increases

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the average view time. And the more view time

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a video has, the more YouTube shows it to other

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people. So yeah, every view counts, every view

02:24:20.489 --> 02:24:24.670
helps, every comments, every like. So support

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the channel however you can.