what are the brazilian guys gonna say brazil
mentioned you're destroying new i want to know
what you think about this emux man this has been
like uh this has been actually fun because you're
doing the question the right question in the
right time me as a terminal user yep i don't
care but i do understand the pain that terminal
maintainers go through with T -MUX, I just want
to hear your thoughts. It's helpful. It helps
you see where you're at, right? At least to me,
it helps me see. It's a cosmetic, man. Let's
not lie here. It just makes everything feel better.
Let's put it that way. I think that is like a
big mistake of Nelby in general. Like, people
don't really care. They don't really want to
spend, you know, like, polishing. Like, too much
stuff. It's like it's a no -ending cycle. Like,
you just keep finding new stuff. And then you
develop this mentality where you actually start
to think about plugins all the time and, you
know, seek for plugins. I don't want to be the
guy that criticizes that. But you did. Because...
No, I did. And I will keep doing it. But it's
like... Maybe I have something against VS Code.
I don't know. But it's like... But... No, I think...
I think VS Code comes from... You're ashamed?
You're ashamed that people see you using VS Code.
Is that it? If you're listening to this as a
podcast, remember that it was originally recorded
as a video. If you're not following along, you
can go to my YouTube channel. My username is
Linkarzu. And if you want to support me to keep
this podcast going, you can donate in Ko -Fi.
I'm going to leave a link in the description.
All right. So let's get started with this chapter
then. What do we have today? We have Rafa here
with us. He's the creator of the Rio Terminal.
How's it going, Rafa? Good. Excited to be here.
Okay. Thanks for your time. Thanks for sharing
with us about Rio. You mind just letting us know
what Rio is? I tried it a few days ago. Well,
no, a few months ago. We talked on Twitter. Not
sure if you remember. I remember, yeah. Yeah?
I do remember. You want to share about Rio? What
is it? Yeah, RIO is like a terminal emulator.
It's like KT and Ghosty and Elacrid. Actually,
RIO is like built from a lot of stuff from Elacrid,
like originally. And, you know, like there's
so many actually terminal emulators everywhere,
right? Like it's hard to, it's like a browser.
There's like every little one. And I think that
this is a very exciting thing about emulators
in general, because you can choose the one that
you feel that you are more attached to or connected
to. It's like browsers. I choose my browser because
I have this memory attachment from my past. But
in the same way, it is supposed to get the terminal
emulator at the end of the day with the basic
emulator functionalities. Okay. So it's just,
well, it is a terminal emulator then. And why
the name Rio? Man, this is actually a funny question
because like... I was thinking about this these
days, like, people are often associated with
Rio from my city, like Rio de Janeiro. But, and
kind of is, is kind of, like, the story is almost
there, but actually has a bit more. I was going
to marry, like, or was going to fly to Brazil,
like, in that time, but I could not go due to,
like, some immigration stuff. I was waiting for
my visa to go out. And then back in time, the
emulator had another name. It was like Ox. Ox
is like a reserved word. And someone was just
like, yeah, I need to rename this. And I thought,
I bought Hue actually as a placeholder because
we could not buy tickets to Hue. I literally
could not buy tickets to Hue to fly. And I thought
like, okay, we'll just put this as a joke. And
then it remained there. I never really changed
it back to any other thing. So I wanted to do
the things that Goldfee and Alacrit does, you
know, the TTY. I thought that was actually cool
to do, but I kind of got attached to that for
a while. Like, it worked for a few months with
that name, which is like, you don't see that
thing with a different name, right? It didn't
end up being that way. Real. So it's related
to Brazil then, right? Yeah, it's from my hometown,
yeah. Rio de Janeiro. Brazil mentioned, like,
the prime minister. Yeah, exactly. With the flag.
Yeah, he went there in, I think he went for Sao
Paulo. A few friends of mine met him. It was
very nice, like, that he went there. Oh, yeah.
I did see that. It was at Turso Convention or
something. I don't remember what it was. I think
actually they made, I don't know the whole story,
so it could be actually not being, like someone
could correct me later, but I thought that they
actually built the whole thing for him, you know,
like was the whole conference like just about
him or something like that. I don't know the
whole story, but I thought it was that. Okay,
okay. And Lua, what language is it written in?
I'm sorry, Lua. Rio. Yeah, Lua is from... Brazil
mentioned again. Yeah. And Nelvin as well. Nelvin.
And Htop. Like, I joke with, like, a few people
from Charm that if you use terminals, it's very
likely that you use, like, a Brazilian, like,
stack. Yeah. Because, like, yeah, Nelvin starts
from, like, a few Brazilians as well. but it's
built in Rust and yeah, like, you know, everyone
has opinions about Rust, like positive or negative.
Oh, and why did you choose Rust? Is it because
of performance reasons or? Yeah, I always liked
Rust, like, I think I had been... you know people
say that they're google fanboy apple fanboy i
think i always has been a mozilla fanboy like
since i started my career like i use it firefox
because i like it then like so when they started
a new language i thought like oh one day i'm
gonna give it a try and i i like it the fact
that they did a lot of things open and i don't
know how is now, like, it's not like I have been
following them that much, like, now, but, like,
when they started developing Rust, I was following
Rust very close, but I never used it, because
I was working with other languages, like Python,
JavaScript, Ruby, and, like, in my life came
opportunity to work with Rust in the work, so
I thought, like, well, Let's just write real
projects in Rust, like in my free time, to learn
the language. So I started to write in the Game
Boy emulator that also runs in the terminal.
And after the Game Boy, I kind of had a taste
of, you know, you learn about registers and how
the things work, the CPU, the memory, the GPU.
And then you're just like, man, I actually want
to keep going that way. And then I wanted to
do something that uses GPU, but was not just
GPU -based. And I kind of clicked it when I was
using Kitty. And I was just like, oh, I could
do something like that. So I started to work
on here because of that. Okay. So Rust started
it. You were using Kitty at that time when you
decided to start with it. i actually use it all
the terminals i'd say like it's it's true like
uh i use it a bit of everything like it's kind
of like we're joke i was joking with you before
we recorded that you have ghosty and kitty as
well right yeah but i i can't relate i could
have all the terminals installed the mainstream
and i mean i work for charm so it's like uh it's
also i need to test things in different terminals
but before work for them i had all the terminals
i think that is it's like they're fantastic like
piece of software to be honest like uh it's almost
like pokemon you need you need to catch them
all yeah definitely yeah i started with iterm
i don't have iterm installed anymore no but then
i moved to alacrity i don't have alacrity installed
anymore But I have now Ghosty, Kitty, Western,
Rio I have it installed as well. What else? Rio
mentioned. Yeah, Brazil mentioned. Which ones
do you use? Which terminals? Which is your main
one? Is it Rio? It is Rio. I mean, it would be
weird if I maintained Rio and didn't use it as
the main one. But I think I use Rio. 95 percent
or 98 percent but often when i'm developing stuff
like for example now i'm developing box characters
like to be draw like as ghosting alacrity does
and kitty does so in these moments i actually
opened all the terminals because i need to compare
like how how they do and how i want to do so
like i think in like um maybe at charm as well
i do but it's not also like if you work with
terminals like for example if you work for charm
you also need to give a very good compatibility
support so you need to test a lot of things in
apple terminal like you cannot just ignore those
terminals so you have to take the apple terminal
and also iterm into account Yeah, I didn't have,
like, actually, I tried to use everything, so,
like, I see what's good from which and try to
take a bit. I think my favorite outside of him
has been Ghosty, but I think, like, I have a
different view from Mishu, which is a great guy,
by the way. Like, when he started, like, the
terminal, he reached it out by email. I didn't
know who he was. And it was funny because everyone
knew him. I talked about him in the conference
one time and then people were like, oh, so you're
friends with Hashimoto. And I was just like,
how do you guys know him? I came from a different
background. I didn't know. I came from front
end. So I was like, what's going on? And I used
to work with Beckham early in my career. It was
like a long time ago. So I used to float back
end, front end. I did a bit of working data analysis.
Like, I like to switch. So in that time of my
career, I was working back end. And then people
thought, like, I didn't know who he was. And
then, you know, he reached out. I thought that
he was just like, you know, a random guy. Then
I used to talk with him. And then suddenly everyone
was, you know, like, oh, this guy, like, really
famous and blah, blah, blah. But, you know, it
never appeared to me that he was that way. Oh,
yeah. You were not aware of the HashiCorp products?
Yeah, no, I never connected those things. Like,
I learned it actually in the conference. Oh,
okay. I sent a message to him actually after
that. I was just like, dude, you're actually
pretty famous. Like, he didn't even know. Okay,
that's a funny story. Okay. Why did he reach
out to talk about terminals? He sent an email.
I think someone, because he tweeted something
about his terminal back in time. And someone
told him, do you know Rio? And then he was like,
no, I have used Rio and I like it. I'm going
to try to talk with the developer up here. And
then, I don't know, I think I had my email public.
I don't remember the whole story. This was made
a few years ago. And he sent an email with a
few paragraphs. And I told him, dude, let's just
talk into Discord. And so I started to just talk
about Ervinos and what we thought was cool and
how... I think that is the thing actually that
is missing a bit more in the universe of terminals.
There's like this collab between terminal alters.
Because like there's so much specs that we could
be working together and everyone is doing kind
of their own protocol. Like now Kitty is developing
their own phone protocol. And I think it's...
is great but also i was working something similar
to that that looks a bit different so it you
know kind of like it's just like i feel the kind
of needs like this how come all each other sometimes
the collaboration so you don't do the same thing
over and over right yeah and and also discuss
right you have this in the web like with the
working group or committee the people state and
they go, I like this idea, or this idea is not
good. Before you actually add protocols, like
you start to validate with people. I don't know,
like, because if you get quick traction, like
sometimes the things just stay there forever,
then like all the terminals just are going to
implement because everybody's asking. So I don't
know. I see. Yeah, so if the feature becomes
popular. all of the other terminals are going
to implement it and probably create a version
when you could use something common, all of the
terminals, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, something
in that line of thought, right? Like we could
go do more things together. I don't know. But
I think also that every terminal emulator developer,
they also kind of, they, like day on on day on
sometimes like the profiles that I have on top
of my mind is like They they're pretty much developing
stuff alone. And then it's also I understand
them as well a bit like that. So I I think it's
complicated And isn't there like a discord? Channel
where all the terminal guys are where you can
talk. No, there's not Yeah, someone from Charm
told me that there is this place where people
discuss stuff. I haven't tried, to be honest.
And I feel like I didn't know if they had the
terminal. Because sometimes, I think it's like,
sometimes people, they have the idea that it
would be good to have. Like, they come with their
own protocol. but without the real understanding
of how a terminal emulator works. And it's like,
for example, Accurate. I understand why they
never developed the image protocols. You hear
everyone asking for it. Yeah, I was asking for
it as well. Yeah, because in some way... if you
if you develop your own render in the terminal
and later you see that they they have like the
architecture and they part particularities uh
where they base the the like i i know when i
entered like in the technical approach of it
was like to add something as the image protocol
like you need to change stuff and that's how
ghosty also adapted how they do stuff like because
you need to actually revamp your architecture
to do that and you're gonna pay performance it's
like i think one thing that hashimoto talks that
i like that i like you know his article was like
when he people are comparing alacrit and his
terminal he says like yeah sure like but in the
same way the more stuff you add for the terminal
like it's likely that you're gonna i mean sure
it's gonna be fast but it's like not necessarily
going to be faster than something that does the
simple job so it's like if you if you have like
a really small module that just procs that process
text like so takes that text and you know plots
on the screen like just rendering how that's
gonna be faster than like um i don't know something
that deals with images ui everything like it
does so the more features you're actually asking
like oh i want to have like all ligatures i want
to have this so you're going to end up paying
price for it because like it's how it works and
you can of course optimize the terminal to be
really fast you could like write a lot of logic
like you use like parallel processing scene everything
but in the same way if the other version that
is simple to the same optimization is still going
to be faster it's like it's the same concept
of like algorithms like there is no way like
uh you know what i mean like one four like this
is lower than like two four i mean of course
like they think this is the very raw mode like
you know there's case in case but you see what
i mean it's like if you're dealing with more
input they need to do more process they are and
And they're like, work, work, work. And you can,
like, you want to keep increasing the time. So
I respect Alakrit a lot for the decisions that
they take. But I also understand the community
necessities that they, people just want, like,
to modernize a bit. So I feel that, yeah, I think
it's a very great key. uh situation because like
right i think there's like uh i think alacrit
needs to exist like they need to exist like they
need to be they need to be the the the example
of like a option for people that just want the
basic and the fastest yep definitely and you
know what i mean like and and other options should
exist everywhere i was talking that like i have
all the terminals because Like every terminal
does something different and I kind of like it.
Yep. I would probably still be in alacrity if
it wasn't for images. It's not like I need images,
you know, but I kind of need images. You're feeling
they're missing out, right? Yeah, but like you
mentioned, right? That's why we have so many
different options. Yeah. I don't know. I just
like just like viewing images because I just
quickly want to see. OK, so let's say that I'm
working on something. I always open this file.
This is the file. But I just want to see. OK,
yeah, this is the image right now. I just want
to see that. I just want to confirm basically
when I paste an image in the oven that I have
the right image. Right. Because otherwise I would
have to open a preview. I can't do that, you
know, in the browser. But I don't know. It's
just... But I have options. No, I am with you.
I am with you. That's why you use Kitty and,
like, Ghosty. Yeah. Like, and Rio. But I think
that, like, in terms of image protocol, like,
he was far behind, like, Kitty and, like, he
still needs to catch up with Ghosty. But, like...
What does Ghosty use? Does it use the KDE graphics
protocol? Yeah, exactly. And here it does support
6 .0. I think KDE does not support 6 .0 and Ghosty
does not support 6 .0. And all the terminals
support the iTerm2 protocol as well. And I have
a very... important question for you as a terminal
developer right go for it i want to know what
you think about this emux man this has been like
uh this has been actually fun because you're
doing the question the right question in the
right time uh last week in charm we're discussing
this like because everyone have their opinions
right And I think the following. Do you use Tmux?
I use Tmux, yeah. Right. So I think this. Tmux
is great. And if you think from a user perspective,
you don't care what is a terminal developer perspective
because you don't maintain a terminal. exactly
right so you just want like something that works
for you yeah you don't really care me as a terminal
user yep i don't care but i do understand the
pain that terminal maintainers go through with
tmux i just want to hear your thoughts yeah no
exactly i i think like uh i think like uh in
overall i think it's a great like uh tooling
It's hard to even imagine like something replacing
Teamworks nowadays like this is so why use it
everyone they use Terminal sort of how uses it
or uses LGA and back in time use it to use Scream
but I think like I'm not in that position to
judge people they also don't maintain Terminal
so it's like Why are you going to judge then?
You know what I mean? I actually started to develop
a multiplexer on my own just to... Because...
Okay, so here's the deal. TMAX is like a program
that creates TTY and then manages that for you.
And the terminal gets a bit confused because
you're running a program that is managing TTY
and returning it for you. And then, you know,
like... You're talking about capabilities, you're
talking about a lot of stuff that Tmux is doing
out of the hood. So is Tmux running another terminal
in your terminal? Exactly. So they keep creating
terminal instances for you and managing that
for you. So it's hard to think, okay, it's kind
of like a layer between the terminal program,
no sorry the emulator the program and the terminal
because like so the problem is the layer between
the host and the terminal itself the pty is the
terminal and uh so i started to work on the proof
of concept that is like i don't know when this
is gonna be done But I started to create, like,
okay, so what if I create and manage instances
through the terminal via, like, ANSI? So, like,
I ask the terminal to create, like, an instance.
And then, like, once I have an instance, I can
just ask for, like, any information about the
running instance to the terminal. So I started
to work on the multiplexer that, like, that does
not feel like a hack, like, for the terminal
perspective. so i give to the terminal the power
to create and manage instances and just notify
the running program um i don't know when it's
gonna be done i was able to work like to get
this working but it's not the same way it's just
like just here for self is a lot of work in my
daily basis so it's just like i don't know when
i'm gonna be you know finishing wrapping that
up oh yeah and How is compatibility? Let's say
that Tmux adds a new feature. What does that
mean for you as a terminal maintainer? Do you
need to make it compatible with your terminal?
Yeah, like as long as it... This is a bit complex
because it depends on the feature, right? So
it's like when we're talking about image protocols
or stuff like that. TeamBucks needs to recognize
and understand the capabilities that you have
from the host so that's why people a lot of times
do open issues and like it's funny because like
for example ssh like you try to connect from
a service from a server and then or you know
like trying to do something somewhere but the
host the server that you have is a different
host Oh, sorry. The host that you are is in a
different term than the server that you are running
at. So it starts to have a very weird response.
It starts to, you know, like, oh, I am typing
in something very... Strange happens. Yeah. And
I think that that is the thing with the... So
you often need to map that out to TMAX. But that
does not necessarily... It's just... because
that's why i said depends on the feature in general
there's enough but there is a lot of other stuff
that you also need to map it out because you
also need like tmux to uh again like from a third
of developer perspective is a bit of it is not
nice like because a lot of a lot of user issues
that comes to you is like tmux you know intervening
in this stuff and actually doing stuff that he
should be doing or and i understand why people
like they talk about tmux but i think like i
don't want to be the terminal developer that
just read silence because i use tmux for a long
time and then so if you're a user like there's
no that's not really matter like you want the
terminal to work for you and you want you just
understand like you just want to go to you and
open your issue and say like hey man this is
broke but then like but then you you most of
the times people are forgetting the configuration
so you just ask in the issue are you using tmux
and if they answer yes you just close the issue
right away yeah i know some people actually did
that well i'm gonna mention names but like uh
it is it's not it's not the best like i try to
to be kind to people over the issues Yeah, it's
really complex. As a user as well, getting Tmux
in between, you know, terminal Tmux in your application,
it's another layer that you have to take into
consideration. So if you don't know what you're
doing, it's because I remember I had an issue
with Western, right? So I tried to view images
in Western, but I was using Tmux. And I had weird
issues. What I had to do was to download the
kitty term info file. used that in Westterm,
and that worked with T -Max, right? Yeah, that's
one type of features that you get with regarding
the capabilities. And I think one thing that's
funny, so I was like, man, terminals are like
a word. Like, it's just like a lot of stuff.
But one thing that's like, people often ask me,
like, when CXO is landing at EU or Windows? And
then the thing is like, For HEU to have 6 working
at Windows, we need to use a specific version
of the COM -PTY. And either I wait for Windows
to bundle that up, and basically that's what
I have been doing, or either I bundle it up,
like I actually get the COM -PTY, put in HEU
binary, and then run, you know, HEU. like actually
triggering that binary which is how Westerm has
been doing and a lot of other projects has been
doing as well but for me it's so bad they actually
need to you know like get something from Microsoft
like and make it work compile it to something
and then it's like okay now you're running the
ARM now you're running the x86 and then do this
like just instead of like relying on something
that should exist for you know like like in every
system basically so i don't know like i i have
no i maybe i'm gonna actually bundle it up in
here to get the issue sorted out but i also patient
man so i can wait a bit more how do you feel
as a terminal maintainer when i use your like
me right comes along tries rio and the first
thing they do is install tmux do you feel that
they're not using rio anymore it's like so why
are you using rio just use whatever how do you
know no i feel great actually like uh i i have
no strong bad opinions about tmux like again
like i was a user before like i used to use tmux
like everyone that complained about tmux i think
that's a moment of their career they use a tmux
you know what i mean like all the all the the
terminal developers like they use a tmux before
i don't want to mention names so it's like sure
like kind of changes your your perspective after
you maintain a terminal like you start to see
things differently but uh but i don't want to
be this person that judges like and say like
oh this is this is poop like in the end of the
day people are doing what i was doing before
you know what i mean like they're not and frankly
bad for them like they don't need to maintain
a terminal at the end of the day they can just
live their life and and like you know just chill
i think that that actually is great for them
yeah let me tell you why i love tmux okay the
only reason yeah that is basically everyone has
everyone has like a different reason i actually
have been asking that like in the past week because
i was just like okay i want to write a multiplexer
myself so what features of tmux i need to copy
and everyone has like they they own stuff like
my my boss was like oh i love the way they integrate
with ssh and my my other friend was like talking
what was the thing i think was about the server
they can just have like it running in different
places and then you have like so that's why i
think the tmux is a good it's a great piece of
software in terms of like it gets the job done
and it's hard to see it being replaced serving
a goal like your virtual something oh no no go
ahead yeah it's pretty interesting what you're
saying everyone has something different yeah
and it's like i think like people saying like
about the configuration that they liked about
the leader key but all these features they are
reproducible like for example it's just like
tmux has so much love from the terminal community
that no one came and said like oh i'm gonna rewrite
tmux in I don't know, like in C or in Rust. Oh,
in Rust? Is that Selige? Is it written in Rust?
No, it is, right. But it's like, if you think
with me, it's like, yeah, sure, it's one guy,
but how many multiplexers have you heard about
it? It's not like Terminals. Yep, no, just Tmux.
And Selige, but it's not that popular. Yeah,
exactly. And I started to do my... Yeah, exactly.
No, I think it would be fun, actually, to do
the multiplayer. I did already work with four
panels and with the leader key, and I was able
to do some of the debug speed functionalities
in three days. But it's like, it's so great when
you think like, oh, it's such a lot of pieces
of software that people, it's like Git. Like
you don't come to... It's like Git, yep. You
know what I mean? Like, you don't come to a developer
and say, like, hey, man, like, do you want to
use a different stuff than Git? And they'll be
like, why? Like, it's been working already. It
works well. And I think that this is the thing
with the TMAX. So it's like, to replace it, you
need to come with a very good approach, like,
of how you're doing in terms of architecture.
And I love, for example, the Western does have
its own Mood Flexor. for me is like i love it
i think that is like it's so interesting that
they do that um and i think actually terminals
some way should be doing that but it's also like
as a terminal should be doing that as well like
i think you know like it's all part of the question
yeah and uh so i love it but i also have like
Yeah, you know like it's probably people who
look to him and Bill they would be like, yeah,
why did you put like a retro art? like future
support and People be like Kevin the look too
much. Like why did you do that? Yeah Yeah, nobody
is gonna be happy. There's always people that
is gonna be happy with whatever You decide to
take so You're going to show something with Tmux,
man. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only reason
why I love Tmux is... Where is my terminal? Here.
Here. Sessions, right? Because for me, sessions
are projects, right? So this is my .files, right?
So here's the Tmux name, right? So if I want
to jump to my nodes with a single key map, I'm
in my nodes, right? So if I want to jump to my
blog post... I just type another keymap, it opens
that session, and I'm there. If I want to jump
to my home session, right? Another keymap, I'm
there, right? Here's where I type my commands.
Or if I want to go to my daily notes, for example,
another TMAG session. So personally, right? Yeah,
it feels like a workspace. Yeah. like a workspace
right so each one of these is like um a github
repo right so i can navigate between my different
repos quite fast right so that is i don't care
about the um the windows right i don't care about
the split panes and all that stuff no i like
no i i i get to like uh i think like this is
the thing that i I actually will try to do in
the next HEU version, I think. Not the version
itself. I actually have been trying to do it.
I will leave this to the end. But I have been
trying to do experimental HEU with more native
stuff. So I have been working on the SwiftUI
version of HEU in the parallel. That's closed
source yet. But it's like, I have been trying
to call it like art browser and some stuff that
they have like this concept of workspace where
you can name stuff and stuff like that. And like,
it's a thing that I really see value. Like sometimes
I'm working on the work. Sometimes I'm working
on my personal stuff. Yeah. Sometimes I just
bring them stuff. Yeah. and like uh you don't
want to quit the application then cd into the
other one open your editor there it's you know
exactly no i will work you 100 like so it's like
i think that i want to explore in the future
i didn't hear you or either i don't know if i
want to do the mood but who knows like if i get
excited i will do and it's a lot of work man
so Yeah. No, but I've worked on so many stuff
in parallel. I'm doing the batch, like, in virtual,
in Rust, and, like, I think it's, like, sometimes
I get bored with Heave. Like, I think it's, like,
how can I say? It's, like, in Heave, you kind
of work in some specific type of work. Like,
you know, you fix bugs, you add features. You
fix bugs, you add features. And... Sometimes
you have the space to be creative and when that
happens, it's great, but you can also break things
for users. So it's like you need to also respect.
I think with the MoodPlexer is a different subject
because sometimes I have a space to be, okay,
I want to do some crazy stuff. I want to create
like a protocol that I can send, like, please
create this TTY, please delete that TTY. what
is the output, what is the input, and they connect
with, I mean, now explaining how the architecture
works, like, but you see, like, you can actually
explore stuff, and I think with here, sometimes
the things are more straightforward, and people,
they are more, they're more concerned in terms
of, like, oh, because it's, like, in the terminal,
in the maintaining terminal life. Sure, people
get excited when they have cool stuff that they
never saw before. Like, for example, the RetroArch
filters were very exciting and everyone was like,
whoa. But I think also they get the same level
of excitement if I fix a lot of bugs in a row.
So it's like, you know what I mean? It's not
like you kind of need to treat your users in
the way that they want to use reliable software.
sometimes it's great like i'm excited and other
times i just want to work on crazy stuff so it's
hard to find the the balance i think yeah and
how how is it working with that tmux maintainer
have you talked to him what's his name um it's
um nicholas nicholas i don't remember the last
name have you worked with them No, not really.
Like, I never did. But I heard that, like, they're
cool, you know, like, never, like, I don't have
personal opinions, but I just heard that they're
cool. Okay, okay. And how is it with Windows?
Is Rio, can you run it on Windows? Of course,
like, this is a thing that for me is, like, a
must, actually. Because when I started my career,
I didn't have much money. Windows was the only
machine that I could actually afford. And I didn't
know Linux. It just started my career. It was
not like my co -work. He was already a Linux
fan without even having a computer. He was reading
Linux magazines before he could have his first
computer. But I didn't even know Linux at all.
So for me, it's kind of a democrat way of software.
Think about everyone. I just don't want to be
developing the good stuff for macOS and ignoring
the rest, or developing good stuff for Linux
and ignoring the rest. I want to be... I think
that this is the part I think is inclusive. And
for me... Like when I was a teenager or a kid,
I didn't have any money to just upgrade for the
Mac OS. And it was like a big deal when I actually
changed for Mac OS. So, man, as long as I maintain
here, I will try to give priority on the Windows.
It's tough for me because it's not my main driver
right now. So some stuff is hard for me to...
keep up but this works actually putting some
love and doing the native steps for windows uh
which is a thing that people have been asking
for a long time and uh and blur is something
that's also calling me there's like all these
things you know like and it's great when you
actually add these things like you see the love
from people like that they because they they
have been using the weight of all that feature
and then when you do that it's kind of nice because
like you see the yeah you know like i think it's
a nice thing like the way that people tweak software
i guess and how has that experience been how
has it you know the open source experience with
issues discussions is it a lot of work a lot
of burden have you had bad experiences how is
that side of things yeah i i i i used to do a
lot of open source i don't know if in the same
as rio but i used to work for jquery like you
know the javascript like framework uh oh my work
there was very little and i used to work for
jquery caller And just by that time, it was a
bit overwhelming. We were talking about, I don't
know, 12 years ago. Am I that old? I don't know.
Something like 9 or 10 years ago. But after that,
I started to work on my own stuff. I call it
React TV, which was like a render for TV, televisions
and stuff. And it was great. But I think the
real... Like, the real open source experience
that I really had was when I started to contribute
for WebAssembly. And then I started to deal with
people asking stuff. Like, I think my first job
in the WebAssembly working group was to extend
the interpreter to actually allow receive function,
name it functions to run in the interpreter.
And it was funny because it was C++ and it was
not my area of expertise. So I was still learning
at the time. And people were like, oh, I'm going
to do, I'm going to do. And I was just like,
hey, man, I will do. So that was, I think, my
real kind of like... It's like when you start,
even if you work on your own stuff and people
use, it's like... Like, I don't know, like I
had like a lot of, I spent a lot of time working
outside of open source. So it was like, I felt
more as like, you know, like something extra.
But as I was growing up, like getting older as
well, like I started to see more as a lifestyle.
Like, you know, like I think that that's why
I liked Mozilla at first. That was like everyone,
you know, people doing open stuff and like. I
would say, like, man, it's hard for me to imagine
taking money from Hive. Like, of course, people
can donate and stuff, but it's like, I don't
imagine myself charging people for using it.
And it's also because, like, I learned so much
with OpenCode that, you know what I mean? Like,
so after the experience of the WebAssembly, I
started to work the Game Boy, then I started
to work on Hive, and... it was kind of a boom
in the beginning because someone posted the link
in the hardware news and man was like it went
from zero to three thousand stars like in three
or two days and he was not even done like you
know what i mean like that was full of bugs so
i kind of sometimes regret opening that quick
because like uh it it I mean, it's also good
for it. I think it's like, you know, like it
has the good side and the bad side. The bad side
is like, man, people come bursting or like, and
they're like, man, where is this picture? Like
you guys are supposed to be done. And then...
More responsibility, right? Yeah, exactly. The
good side is actually... that you get to know
a lot of people like I got to know so many wonderful
people like through Hiyu and even the Hashimoto
that is like from another like terminal man like
Hiyu basically allow me to connect with them
to him with him sorry and like connect with SHARM
as well like that works with terminal So it's
like, in some ways, like, it has been, like,
really good to work with. But in other ways,
sometimes I just don't want to do, like, for
example, font ligatures. I didn't really want
to do it. Because I wrote the Hebrew for myself
and was working for my case. You know what I
mean? Like, I didn't want to do that for other
people. And I was just like, screw this, man.
It was like three months rewriting stuff and
making you capable to rewriting and fixing other
people's bugs. Rewriting and fixing other people's
bugs. But you know, at the end of the day, you
look back and you learn so much from the process
that actually makes me want to continue. So it
supports ligatures now. Yeah, it does. And yeah,
it was such a fun journey to do that. Because
it's the type of challenges that you don't expect
to face in your regular job. So for me, it was
like, as I was speaking, sometimes I saw Michel
and other people complaining about font in general,
like font rendering is such a word. There's a
lot of stuff that actually happens under the
hood. and then and like before i'll be like yeah
these people are complaining about who cares
but now i'm just like man actually it's a lot
of work okay okay interesting and um let's get
to know you a little bit more if that's okay
we already talked about rio a lot and i think
um you did cover all of the questions that i
had about it i would like to to see a demo on
the cool stuff that you have for Rio. If you
want to share that a little bit later, but you
want to share. Yeah. Okay. You want to share
a little bit more about you. So where you're
from, whatever you want to share. Sounds good.
I am from Brazil. Like I was born and raised
in Rio de Janeiro. Well, not really raised there.
I was born here, but I grew up in other cities
close by. And I started my career because I wanted
to work with games. I never worked at anything
with games. Terminals. Yeah, maybe at some moment
of my life I will do, but I wanted to work with...
Games and that never happened actually started
working. I started to program with PHP and C
sharp so it was like I was doing games for Xbox
and you know so excited about it and like yeah,
and I honestly didn't know that Programmers would
get any money. I thought that was going to be
poor for the rest of my life and and then like
it was funny because like it kind of like it
changed like like programming did allow to change
my life in terms of like you know came from poor
place and then fly go all the place and travel
the world like learning a language because back
in time i only knew portuguese so i started to
learn so now i speak spanish english like swedish
like i speak other languages as well but i don't
want to say that i speak conference they come
you know they come talking to you like in their
languages and then you're just like uh they talk
yeah yeah exactly that actually happened in the
my interview with spotify i told the guy that
like the whiteboard i told the guy that spoke
a bit of japanese which i do but uh but the guy
spoke really fluent japanese he lived there for
10 years And then he started speaking Japanese,
which was like, oh, man, I know how to maintain
a very basic conversation. Like, take it easy.
Yeah, calm down. Yeah, exactly. And for me, programming
was a very important aspect. And, you know, I
used to work for different companies, worked
a lot in Brazil. then to start work for us and
then now work in sweden i have the experience
of work for different like very different like
i think the companies that are working were very
different from each other so allow me to do stuff
that were like i just work with back -end and
front -end and designer then you know like then
i used to work for data science then you know
like you know devops and then i would just go
for embed systems it was like i always have been
curious to do everything like i never wanted
to be just that guy that's just front end and
uh or just the guy that's back in the house like
everything and i i think that that was a big
issue in my career in the beginning because in
the beginning i like uh i'm sure they remember
people put names as like uh you know like this
guy he's like a web developer and the web developer
was like doing everything but then some moment
the web developer became front -end back -end
you know like all this splitted stuff and uh
so for me it was like i i was saw myself as someone
that was very generalistic like i like to do
everything but uh i also fear that people that
do everything they're not very good in one specific
thing so it's like uh i i don't know if that's
true either because like i did actually interviews
for front -end and back -end and i i patented
for both in as a specialist for both companies
in different big companies So in the same way,
I think it's just bullshit. That's my personal
opinion. I think it's like people being lazy
and they don't want to assume that there's so
much to learn in software. And then you're just
going to keep learning until you die. And yeah,
I think in terms of background, I did university
as many people did. you know, like came out of
university and realized that things from university
were not that useful in the real world. Like,
like people, you know, like they, they want the
daughter stuff. Um, and yeah, like, uh, I was
taught that we work with games until so far never
happened, but one day might be. Oh, wonderful.
Okay. You have, Where can people find you? I
guess in github, right? Yeah Yeah, now we're
open like a youtube channel. So let's see. Oh,
you opened it already? Yeah, I'm trying to do
because I don't know man like it's like there's
twitter mastodon and uh and blue sky and I feel
that it's kind of like crazy when you're posting
everywhere and then you deal with people in every
place because Like, you know, like people want
to be in one specific network. I have friends
from different places. So it's like, although
I really hate some people, like, you know, from
like, I don't know, like, I don't know if I should
answer that topic, but I have friends from all
the three, like, networks. So it's like, for
me, it's like, man, I don't want to stop losing,
like, you know like lose touch contact with someone
so like i was trying to keep out the tree but
it's just getting like in the point there is
very unhealthy like to follow these three so
maybe that though like i just post on youtube
like uh casually people want to follow about
here that they follow if they don't want like
i don't give a damn like i do software because
i like it not like uh You know, it's not like
doing this because like when I like many stars.
Yeah. I think it's about having fun. Do you want
to share your YouTube channel? You have it already?
Of course. Yeah, I have it. I will. No, I actually
want to get my handle name for you because I
always forget. Okay. I can share your screen
and you can show it. All right. Alright, then
I'll get one more and go for it. Yeah, you ready?
I am almost... Now I'm ready. Okay. Let's see.
There we go. Okay. Yeah, there is the... There
is my channel. and uh yeah here is like the demo
with the oops i'm clicking the the now here is
the demo with the the retroarch like uh taters
is that a real uh -huh it is it's like you can
actually configure a real to have the like Yeah,
like, to render the way they want, right? So,
people used to do crazy stuff, like, so one guy
actually did, like, some characters would be
blurred in the bottom, and, you know, like, have
this hollow effect. I think that's, like, it's
fun. I like to see the terminal getting this
video game vibe. It's interesting, I guess. Okay,
yeah. That looks cool. And you have videos there,
and they are related to Rio only or development
or? Yeah, mostly Rio. Like here was the, oops.
Here was like talk about the, let me take out
that. Here was talking about the changes that
are coming, like to have like, you know, like
to improve the render for use, like to draw actually
some chairs. characters so like this how it was
before you know you see the borders here like
like it's not really looking good and now it's
like could be looking like that actually this
looks much better in the latest version and this
is awesome but so like i try to talk a bit like
in the like in terms of like things they are
doing they're coming to here and like performance
is gonna be like twice as faster now like for
the next version as well so there's a lot of
like small things that like i tried to just do
a drop there oh yeah like uh like the game boy
that i also did for terminal what is that to
play uh game boy games in rio Yeah, you can play
here terminal any terminal that has image protocol
It was like I wrote in rust it's like It's actually
in my github like it's just like the I can show
it There's like here it's like the whole emulator
I get that runs in the web and then runs in the
like as desktop or terminal as a blog project
okay interesting so i'm going to leave a link
to your youtube channel into your github in the
video description i leave those at the top so
people can find you don't expect for a lot of
people to watch the video you know because not
a lot of people watch my videos but at least
A hundred views. Sounds good. That is more than
perfect. Yep. And do you want to show something
about Rio? Like any features that you want to
show about it now that we're looking at your
screen? Sounds good. I think like that. Let me
think what I was working. Actually, before I
show Rio, can I show one thing before? Yep, yep,
yep. Sure. Because I have been working. on this
project call it misty which oops which is like
uh which is basically a shell parser formatter
and interpreter and i wrote down here i just
want to learn but actually it's more than that
i realized that there was like few projects to
parse so and interpret shell in rust so i was
just like man i want to do this like i want to
you know like do this so other people can use
so technically like uh either you would have
your parser like you would like to use the parser
to test something like perfect cargo like my
keyboard actually i've changed it let me see
if i can configure okay i'll try it this way
should be okay Now it's working as a shell. You
see it's basically a batch, a real writing batch
to Rust. And there's so much actually to do.
For example, if you want to set the environment
variable, like that variable, one, two, three,
then this is set in the environment. and like
should be there and i think that this is like
uh it's a long project like uh one thing that
i'm looking forward to see is like people actually
from different like perspective and like uh like
different products to use because like like for
example there is many products that are written
in rust and they have to like parse bash or shell
in a very weird way and i hope that this project
actually can help that like so people get for
the you know test or like write that better totally
like better code with like a proper parser so
instead of using uh well instead of creating
a bash script that that's going to use bash your
script would use this tool that you're creating
right Almost there. I'm gonna show you. Forget
what you saw now here. This is basically the
interpreter. I'm running the interpreter. So
it is not connected to the parse. But one thing
that I'm looking forward with the parse is basically
like, for example, let's say that you write let's
say cat uh i don't know like and then readme
dot md like how do you actually parse that in
rust like there is no parse to batch at least
i could not find any parser to batch so you don't
know if cat is like a keyword this is a string
like it sure so it's a string but then if all
this is like strings what if what happens if
i do this You know what I mean? So there is no
tooling to distinct the tokens of that content
in rough. And so I have been working on this
for people actually use to write good tests or
if they want to use a batch for something or
a shell for something. So they'll be able to,
for example, get this content here. and and then
no like oh it's like two two strings with like
a one like operator and then other string and
then do whatever they want with the information
so it's like uh for example if you have like
a if you're a maintain of like a package manager
and you have like package build files like you
probably would like to write that for that so
you will need a parser as well so like i think
that this is something that i'm looking forward
to contributing for the rust scenario uh and
i saw actually some some projects that are real
right of back the rust which are very exciting
but i could not find like a proper parser that
i could use like in my you know i mean like like
i just wanted to use like a parser of bash and
i saw some projects that i could use partially
but every project that like something that was
lacking like i wanted to have that x glob so
i cannot do like this you know like uh i cannot
do like this so everything was like in something
um but yeah it's like it's a big project i think
should be i will open this project soon like
people reached me out that they wanted to use
but i'm looking forward to to see so this is
going to be used by people that develop in rust
mainly correct yeah exactly or if they want to
use the the because there's two projects on that
one right they can either use that or they can
use the shell rewrite so they can use the bash
like basically in rust it's a it's a big a real
product i would say okay looking forward and
i after i have the multiplexer done if i do i'll
ask you to give it a try and see what you think
yeah i want to try the the sessions let me know
when the sessions are are ready i will give it
a try for sure no exactly i need to port most
of the features of the micro the ones people
are not going to use oh yeah You know that's
going to be tough because Steamworks has a lot
of different features. So much stuff, yeah. So
much stuff. All right. Hey, you, man. I think
the things that I've been working on here has
been actually quarantine box characters. So it's
like I want to make the hero render looks better
and has been complaints over the time, over the
year. that, like, Unicode icons, they should
be looking better, and, like, the box drawing
characters should be looking better. So I have
been working in many PRs I can show, like, so,
like, you guys have a better idea. I'll just
pop here. So it's, like, this is the current
PR that I'm working now. And then you see I need
to do every character here. because like so it
all right they should look better right yeah
it's like uh like it does not feel weird when
i render them either like many terminals what
they do is like they they resize or they fit
they scale the character to the cell dimension
and he actually will do that as well but You
cannot draw the character by yourself. It just
feels better. You know what I mean? Like, Kitty
does that so good. And Ghost as well. Both Terminals
actually, they draw a lot of characters. And
then, like, they know, like, for example, Alacrita.
So there's a lot of box characters. And... but
it's like if they get this and they're like okay
like it's a double cross like then i'm gonna
draw myself instead of you know get from the
text belief or you know for you know the font
atlas or something and it just feels better because
like it it is kind of the drawing is based on
the font data they have so for example if you're
using a specific type of font he's gonna try
to match with the stroke of that font so it feels
Much like I can say it feels that the the icon
was made that font but was like, uh, which is
funny because many people create issues in here
like Oh, why? Why my this is not working? Why
that is not working? No, I mean and then I don't
know how to explain to them that some fonts They're
not being coming from anywhere. They're being
wrong and it's just like the people don't really
understand there is a magic happening in the
background it's like the the terminal is actually
making that look better for you so it's like
man it's a lot of stuff there's a lot of stuff
to do like but i now i did the most part i think
it's just a matter of like fixing a test but
for example if i go for the double cross and
i run here and then you see like they're still
ongoing stuff like uh get this here like it should
be like it looks like you know that fits this
font you know what i mean so it's like it does
not overflow it fits the dimension of the cell
and it looks you know like handmade or the terminal
yeah it's something that i've been working a
lot in the past weeks like uh hope that i'll
get this done like the beginning of the next
month and meanwhile you know fixing other stuff
like i was picking fixing like uh the flickering
like was flickering for some applications within
the ty and then i fixed it that yesterday so
it's like it's you know there's a lot of things
like this small stuff that comes up and then
you need to like do the proper fixes and the
the filters as well that you were mentioning
are those similar to the filters that goes i
can show too yeah i can show too like uh so the
filters in here they're based on retro arc like
uh and that means that is like Yes, actually.
Basically, this guy. That's a lot of everything.
Basically, I don't know if you guys ever used
RetroArch for emulation. They have a lot of filters
for playing old games and stuff. And RetroArch
filters. So you have this shader process, but
there's a place in the kit of Disneyland shaders
where you can do a lot of magic. And I can show
some to you guys already. But you see, it's funny
because it does change how you see stuff. Yep.
And there's two, actually, filters that are pivoting
here. Otherwise, you need to... I can show the...
Otherwise, like, this is the pivoting, for example.
But otherwise, you will need to map. Like, you
need to, like, pass the path of this lengthy
pipe, and then it will do something for you.
i'll not scroll down so there is no spoiler but
you guys already saw in the in the video and
like yeah so let me get all right let me get
that so all right so i'll just go for render
And I think one important thing to mention is
that he has a render mode that is like a video
game, so it renders forever. But you don't necessarily
need to have that. You can use it with events
that basically how the nodes work. They type
something, they render something. That's kind
of a random necessity. But all right. So filters.
And then all right. Oops. So I do this. And then
boom. Like that. All right. I didn't know like
that. The CRT effect. Exactly. Then you can do
like you go here. I forgot I had actually one
good example, CRT. I don't remember now. But,
you know, like, it feels like... Like, ideally,
it's like giving power to people to make the
terminal how they want to feel. So there's many
people now that are writing their own filters
to him. And, like, one guy actually in the Discord
has been quite active, like, right here. on that
matter like he even has video writing like a
blog post on how to write your own like shader
type effect so let's see how it goes oh and yeah
i remember i don't know was it you the one that
shared in twitter like uh some effects that it
looked like fire and i don't know when you were
typing stuff yeah that was this guy i think he
did for his editor zach uh and i thought i was
going to do that for him as well which i which
i want to do actually but i think first i will
start with the the cursor of the animated oh
the neopi thingy right Yeah, it's amazing. I
actually have it here. I cannot wait to finish
porting that to you so I can use that in my daily
life. Yeah, because it's helpful. It helps you
see where you're at, right? At least to me, it
helps me see. It's a cosmetic, man. Let's not
lie here. It just makes everything feel better.
Let's put it that way. Yeah, let's not lie. It's
just cosmetic. You're right. No, but my boss
and I, like, we... Man, we're such a big fan
of that, like, and actually had a project from
one guy that he was able to do that working for
any VIN. So it works for, you know, Apple Terminal
and everything. So, like, basically he did a
VIN plugin that works for every terminal. It
looks like the animated cursor. I see. So it's
great. Yeah. Neovite is the one that started
with all that. I remember when I saw the cursor
in Neovite, it was like, what is this thing?
And it looked, yeah, liked it. So now... Man,
but this is the thing. Like, I want to do more
versions of the cursor. I just don't want to
spoil it, spoil it to the spoiler yet. But I
think, like... we have like that version from
new environment that is great but we have like
i have other ideas that are based on vs code
cursor there's one cursor from vs code that looks
like chunks a bit like um and then open long
and i'll i'll try to copy that to you as well
i think it'll be fun yeah and you know if you
come up with something um creative it's gonna
call attention people's gonna be like what is
that how did he do that what is that terminal
they're gonna install that they're gonna port
that to ghost and kitty but then like but you
were first yeah i don't know i don't know if
i actually i think i have a thing with here that's
like as long my friends use all good it's like
it's like if the people that i work with use
then i'm good so it's like yeah i'm happy that
it's like how people use like how my co -workers
use i still need to convince the rest actually
one one co -worker of mine he he really wants
to use but uh there is one issue here that i
need to fix for him to join which i hopefully
fix will fix like in this version but i think
that you know there's my main drive like get
people that i know using it because it kind of
gets like it gets nice like when you talk with
people and then they're like hey man like you're
you're you're perfect there's no work and i think
that that's cool okay yeah that's that's interesting
and what is the game boy thing that you mentioned
that you're working on so what is that you want
to show it like do you run it and you said that
you run it on rio right Oh yeah, but I don't
actually have it in this computer. Oh, you don't
have it here. Yeah, I have it here. This Linux
machine. Oh, okay. In the other computer. Yeah,
my ARC actually is. And I have it in my personal
Mac. Oh, okay. I don't remember the last time
I opened my personal Mac. Oh, okay. the instructions
are in your in the github repo right yeah exactly
so but you can actually run uh no mistake and
you can do cargo and actually show let me get
like i think it's basically yes let me get this
to here so basically you can just run cargo install
game boy like and and then you run game boy with
the path of the file then you want to run the
game and it should work but i don't have any
like any legal rule here because i think that
they think like emulation is legal like we use
like games from nintendo like and it's like then
becomes illegal because quickly you know so i
used to download everything from uh Like from
this side each IO they love to like so they made
a lot of games and they post the room there But
they're legal, right? Yeah, there you go. And
then you can just like a download for example
open here Actually this one was like man people
are so excited about this one it's like and you
can just download the demo Well, unless you own
the game and then you put the date of the game
that you have to, you know, a room file, which
I did one time, but it's like too much work,
man. It's just like, you know, like just download
from the legal one, you're going to be okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay. So the cursor animation is
coming soon. now you mentioned that you work
at charm i have seen seen that charm name a lot
of different places videos but i don't know what
it is like you want to talk about it or maybe
show it like of course of course i i actually
okay let's let's do it okay let me let me just
get yeah get ready and you let me know and i
will switch to your screen when you're when you're
ready all right so because i was working on this
branch and then now all right so let's go okay
here we go so charm basically i can actually
open there and do you want to remove the real
filter so we can see so we can see it but i can't
i can't do it for now so like some effects are
cool to see with this but i can't remove later
okay okay that's okay yep so like charm is like
man we do a lot of stuff for terminals and like
uh it's very likely that you use it some like
terminal ui app that has been using something
the charm made and it's like um I was actually
surprised because I realized these days, Super5,
you know, the terminal program, Super5? I don't
think I have heard it. No. Yeah, I think it's
getting Super5. Oops, Super5. It's to show your
file, basically. It's like a Yassi type of thing,
like a file. Yeah, you know, like, he had another
Prime Explorer, like, you know, like, Yasi, Ranger,
everything. And, but, like, I was surprised that
it was made with Charm stuff. And, you know,
they have so much stuff, like, ah, this is heavily
used, like, it's used by GitHub. Like, this thing
for sending emails through Terminal. And like
bubble tea, there's like this huge, like in the
goal ecosystem. It's like, you know, like it's
like a terminal UI framework. And then like you
can create like, like, you know, applications
using like bubble tea and like wish like to create
like apps. What do you mean SSH apps with Wish?
Let's say that you go for like, I think there's
a good example here. For example, you go, you
do like, there's actually someone added here.
When you, that's a product actually people added.
The thing is like, when you go, let's say they
want to go and buy coffee. Like you go for the
website, right? Yep. I don't know, like buycoffee
.co. So one thing they could do is just like
SSH that domain and then you could just integrate,
you know, like use that to, you know, buy coffee.
Like Prime and TJ's and all of those guys' coffee
thingy, right? Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, it
uses like Wish actually. Terminal dot... Terminal
dot shop. Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, I'm not
sure that they use Wish. Because I remember we
actually demoed something from them, I guess.
I don't remember now. But it's basically the
idea. You can go there and then you buy the thing
through there. Which I think is awesome. You
know, bring the terminal back to the game. and
the lip gloss is basically to create like layout
without depending on faculty there's so much
projects actually glamour like for render markdown
is that like a markdown editor that glamour yeah
okay exactly so it's like uh let me get oh it's
like uh yeah you see it's basically like But
here you're having in go like But Like if you
want the render itself like you have to go low,
which is basically the episode Okay, so this
is Assuming you don't use any of them, right?
So the reason why mine looks like this right
now is because um i'm inside new of him and that's
where all the styles are applied and all that
stuff so this other one that you're showing right
now is if you're will be with yeah if you're
not using it without it right oh so you just
open the file with this glow thing and it looks
like that yeah but man so much so many projects
actually i think there's like it's hard to to
summarize i think that mod is one that's getting
really fun now there's like it's like you can
connect with the ai in the terminal it's like
it you know so good i think that this is by far
my favorite of sean and if charm allowed me to
rewrite this to rust i would do it the blink
of eye but it's like i love gun i think that
it's like i don't know i'm not sure if it actually
needs to be rewritten in rust it's just because
i am like to rewrite everything. Too rough, I
guess. But it's like... And what does that come
for? Like, alright, so take a look with me. So
this is a good example. So you do that. Oh, wait.
I mean... Yeah, okay. There's a lot of things
happening now, so it gets a bit confused. But
for example... let's do the tutorial so you write
like gun choose so you give the options right
fix fit talk style and then you put like a placeholder
and you do like you know like you can also do
in the different way and you can do like a conform
and then it you know like it does that automatically
for you like it kind of like and it will return
for you in the shell script the value so it's
like it's useful for shell scripts and if it's
useful for shell scripts you can actually pipe
that information right so it's like you can do
like a gun to do something and then you add a
pipe and then you return the information to the
other combat so it's like people doing like a
combo of gun so many times like gun this gun
that pipe and this and that I think that that's
actually my favorite feature, to be honest. And
then, like, you know, input and move to an answer.
And then it has so much stuff that it kind of
feels like a better shell, you know what I mean?
Like, it's not really a better shell. It does
not have the shell power, but it kind of gives
you, like, utility to use as like a shell assistant
or something but but i also buy the work there
if i was fan of charm before being hired so take
that in consideration okay so this is if you
this is if you run a lot of bash scripts right
it makes them look nice because i see that it
looks nice it has like a code block type of thingy
there at the bottom yeah exactly and then yeah
there's like other things that people do as well
there's like let me see like file page here like
spin there's tape as well i don't know where's
the print like in the case of this style right
like yeah but yeah it makes looks My shell looks
better, I guess. Yeah, because, for example,
I run bash scripts a lot, right? If I want to
create a new VM, or let's say that I want to
create four VMs in my home lab, right? I have
bash scripts, but it doesn't look as nice. So
I guess I could use that gum thingy that you
showed right now to, I don't know. But do I have
to? Do I have to rewrite my bash scripts? No,
you actually keep your bash script the way that
you want, but the part that you actually need
the data, you integrate with GAN. For example,
if you, for example, wait for a read line in
the shell, instead of you wait for the read line,
you can call GAN input, and then magically that
would happen for you. like, magically, you know?
It's like, that would happen for you. I was like,
you would need to integrate by small pieces.
I have to take a look. And are these tools free?
Like, how does Charm sustain itself? Is it open
source? How does all of that work? Man, I think
it's funny because everyone actually asked that
question. Like, Sharp nowadays, like, is a company
that, like, leads up for investment as well.
So, like, he's, like, invested by big companies.
And, you know, like, I confess they're not the
most business. So, it's like, I could be actually
talking about, like, venture capital. I don't
know what disturbs me. I'm just a humble programmer.
but uh but it's like we we actually get like
investments and like charm has like always has
done open source so it's like uh in the way the
companies rely on charm as well so like for example
github use a lot of stuff from charm um so frankly
i i don't think i'm this person like to give
the best answer but i know that things work like
that like out of the out of the hood and everything
is open source and as a user do i have to pay
for any of the tools no you don't need to just
choose and do the best you want with it interesting
i didn't know i did watch some videos and it
looks quite nice really polished and i was like
but what is this company doing then like i i
kind of get it now so everyone ever gives the
same question even before drawing charm and i
had i don't know if i had the the same question
because like before joining charm i thought like
well if it's a company that is used by so many
people thousands and thousands i feel like yeah
in some way it's gonna be someone's gonna be
paying for that like like to keep that company
alive and that's what i thought before joining
but it's like uh boy confess that it's not like
and i don't think i'm the money person to be
honest i otherwise i probably would have charged
for here okay and um thanks for sharing about
charm you know i didn't i didn't know much about
it but now i get a better idea yep now i know
and um You have this blog post. Let's see. What
is this about? You want to share? You want to
show that? Of course. I don't want to show the
editor yet. But I can talk about it. All right.
Let me share this. And so in November, I started
to draft. why I'm working on the new, like I
write a post about why I'm working on the new
code editor. And like, I mean, I can summarize,
like I feel that most of the code editors, they
feel the same, they look the same. And it's just
like, at the end of the day, you're probably
just going to end up like returning to VS Code,
Veeam, or Emacs, wherever you feel comfortable,
right? I think for me, like, I started to think,
like, man, I would like to have what Veeam does,
but in the way that was, like, for everyone.
Like, a designer could just sit and use a Veeam
without having to have a learning curve. You
know what I mean? Like, anyone that's not from
tech, just use Veeam without need to learn, actually,
how the editor works. Yep. So... i started to
think a lot about it and although i was playing
video games and i was just like yeah i think
like actually if you do games they are kind of
self -explanatory you don't need to teach much
like it just happens like you at some moment
it starts to get the gameplay you don't think
like i used to have i used to use now being being
for a long time like i don't use as i used to
use now like i before i think that was like I
used to use those tools a lot to the point where
I was actually giving trouble to my teammates
where they had to type on my computer normally
because they didn't know, like, V, so they were
like, man, what the hell? Like, I don't know
what I'm doing here. And it made me thought,
like, man, I don't know. Like, in the end of
the day, I think, like, the keyboard -based editor
should be simple. It should be something that
is like, like best for you and best for other
person. And I started to work on Boo. And Boo
is like, it does work as a GUI and does work
as like a terminal editor as well. So I can use
whatever I want, like can use in the terminal
or you can use as a desktop app. And my idea
was like to reinvent mouse and mouse free editors.
So, like, you can actually, you know, like, do
stuff without feeling like you're playing guitar.
Because I play guitar, and I feel that every
time that I type on VIN, I feel like I'm playing
a note, you know what I mean? And then that mentality
actually drove me to write Boo. I think my goal
now is, like, getting to the point where I'd
share it. like where i am actually comfortable
to share with other people because like i see
like in my daily basis like it's really good
for rust code but it's not really optimized for
other like language yet so i don't know why like
i try all the editors i always do that they are
bloated like you know like there's so much things
happening and then the end of the day You don't
really want to be there. Like the editor has
like a terminal built in. It has like a git div.
There is so much stuff happening there. And then
at the end of the day, it's just like, man, what
are you doing here? Like, it's not really about
editing code. It's like, it's about everything
else. I feel like there, this is the thing that
I like about Tmux, like that you say, I think
it connects with Boo. When you are in the workspace,
you don't know which workspace you are you're
just there it does not feel bloated you know
what i mean like of course you can put like a
message there hey you're in the number three
like in the top of the in the top of tmux you
can configure stuff but you don't feel like oh
they are taking your space you know what i mean
and and this is the thing i noticed in all the
code editors like the more stuff you add more
folders you open you just feel like it looks
like completely different from what it was supposed
to be. So I feel that most of the actors, they
were not designed to be, you know, like that
big sculpted. I feel like being in some way does
that well because like you change your mentality
to from editing a folder to edit a file. But
it's like you're still stuck to the to the guitar
instrument. So it's like, Oh, I want to, I want
to go to the Boston. How a person that does not
knows how to use a beam would do that. They will
need to Google about it and learn. Oh, I want
to move to the side. They will need to do this
and learn. So I have been working on pool, like
mostly to try to make mouse pre -editors for
everyone. like you know like a person that does
not know anything of tech should be able to use
it as well so yeah is it going to use vim motions
or vi motions or something different man people
actually have been asking a lot about it and
people got excited this is the logo by the way
i'm sharing now what is that the logo it's like
uh the logo from the editor who opens like what
are yeah what is mitchell gonna think with the
ghosty logo i don't know man this is is a subject
that like uh but the thing is like he sort of
inspired me as well like with the ghost because
the way that he did you know like putting the
the dev logs and stuff like that it kind of affected
me like in that way that was just like okay i
want to do something similar i just didn't know
that was going to be this similar but the same
way like uh in the same way it's just like let's
just think as a ghost from rough version like
like ghost has the as the zig version but it's
gonna have no rust version as well but it's like
how can i say I feel like there's so much room
for improvements in terms of the experience of
that, if you know what I mean. For example, you
said about the enemy now with the README, but
that thing does not work out of the box with
the README, like with the Markdown vibes. They
actually need to configure that, right? They
need to add a plugin or something that makes
it look better. I think that this is like a big
mistake of Nelpy in general. Like people don't
really care. They don't really want to spend,
you know, like polishing, like too much stuff.
And most of the people that polish stuff, they
use similar stuff. So it's like, oh, I have the
space. I have this plugin that should mark down
better. Or I have this other plugin that should
mark down better. Sure, but one could come as
default when you could just change as long as
you wanted, you know what I mean? And I think
that this is, in my opinion, one of the problems
with Bing in general. Because sometimes people
just want to code. They just don't want to spend
weekends customizing. Months configuring. Yeah,
exactly. Yeah, I have a colleague that he's years
actually doing this. So is this more like something
already just ready for you to code, right? You
don't need to customize anything. It'll just
work out of the box and you will not have many
options to configure as a user, right? It's just...
Yeah, one thing that Ghosty does well, and I
agree as well, is like the less configurations,
the better. like they have this philosophy and
i don't know if for hew i want to follow that
philosophy let's leave that for them like they're
doing that like why he needs to copy them in
the terminal perspective but for the editor i
can try to copy that philosophy and try to actually
making the way where people can just you know
tune in and just code. But I also think there's
one thing that's like everything should be removable.
And I also think that is a mistake from, you
know, editors that make everything like people.
But it's like, sometimes like people don't want
that crap. And it's just like, everything should
be like, as long as they are there, they should
be removable. And if they're removable, like,
It should not affect the person's performance.
It's the same with some editors that have AI
or code, like a static analysis. Sometimes you
disable that, but it still feels that it's slow
because they're running something that they have
a thread that is idle, doing nothing. And I think
that this is a thing for me with a bow I want
to do in a way where like if people want to have
literally anything, they can go with it. Like
they can go with like something that looks like
a V, very dumb, like very simple and just works.
Because like sometimes just playing V is also
good. It's like, you know, it has been good for
many people for many years. But I think like
the editor that I want to do is like, it starts
for you in the way that you don't need to google
of how things work is that it's just there and
you don't need to install anything it's just
there and it's just like you you can actually
focus on getting your work done like without
actually kill i need to press i need to change
this key bind because like this other thing will
happen Like, I used Veeam and now Veeam and Emac
for many years. And, man, I spent a lot of time,
like, making it, you know, I don't know if looking
nice was my goal, but I wanted to be more, you
know, productive. And the thing is, like, it's
like it's a no -ending cycle. Like, you just
keep finding new stuff. And they developed this
mentality where you actually start to think about
plugins all the time and, you know, seek for
plugins. and i think that this is like man i
don't know if that's what i want to be you know
what i mean like yeah makes sense makes sense
but i also love it like i think like i don't
want to be the guy that criticizes that but you
did because now i did and i will keep doing it
but it's like by the same way i want to be the
person that says like what are the what are the
brazilian guys gonna say brazil mentioned you're
destroying but replace it replace with another
one right so keep the brazil section and wait
what's gonna happen with boo when all of the
new vim users come in and tell you hey i don't
have this that i had a new vim implemented and
then you're gonna end up with new vim again but
in boo yeah this actually has been concerned
and i think there's like uh I wrote that in the
last blog post. There's just, like, many people,
they have been asking, like, oh, I want Emacs
or WinBindings. And, yeah, so it's, like, Boo
does not do any of these bindings. Actually,
it uses its own bindings. But the reason for
that is, like, man, I don't want to sound like
I'm criticizing those tools because I'm actually
a big fan of Bing. Like, I used Bing for many
years. And I just see the value actually in the
tooling. And frankly, just to think that that
software was written like many years ago is mind
-blowing. It's like to have that perspective,
like, you know, like, it's just like, it's insane.
Like Veeam works well for many, many decades.
So it's like, I have a really huge respect. for
being i don't like to be that guy that you know
like just criticize open source and i i actually
think that people that they want to keep using
v man keep using v like boo is not for you like
there is there is no you know that you're not
the problem go away yeah exactly go away and
but it's not the profile that i want to bring
to boo not because like they they would not fit
but it's like I told this to Carlos, the guy
that worked with me, and she's like, man, you
spent so many years of your life learning something.
There is no sense in migrating. You're very productive
on that. Why are you going to become less productive
in the other two? You know what I mean? So I
guess, actually, this mentality of, oh, migrate
from V to Boo, migrate from Emacs to Boo, I think...
boo is not for this those people okay i think
boo is for the new generation it's like people
that don't really want to spend time left learning
keybind or learning you know lua or learning
you know other stuff and and they're like okay
i want to use something simpler like and i think
boo is for those people yeah because but you
bring up a really good point you know it's never
ending with neobim i use neobim i love neobim
but i do get your point not everyone is willing
to put the hours that i have to put that i have
put in my configuration it has exactly months
right and yeah years i have bad years and the
thing with linux right like it's like i love
linux and i think like man it actually came like
gave people so much freedom you know what i mean
like and by the same way some people they don't
want to spend time doing anything like they just
want something that you know updates itself that
you know that is mainstream and then does something
so i think that is like uh who is to target that
part of the people that would love to have a
terminal editor but does not want to you know
and i think the elix you know elix the other
they they kind of go in the line like they do
a lot of things inside and i think that boo goes
a lot similar to them yeah yeah but the difference
is like i still feel that elix you still need
to sit in google stuff so i think that that is
the thing that i want to do i want boo to be
intuitive i want you to like you write down as
you would write in the know in the browser and
if you something is wrong i want the editor to
correct you like hey you're trying to do this
then no this doesn't work here like you should
do this and this this whole thing is actually
built in in bool so it's like you're trying to
save a file like this actually happens in bool
you're trying to save a file with command s and
in the terminal it notifies you it's not like
who works here you don't need to google i'm gonna
tell you how it works and then so it's like everything
is like part of a game i would say it's like
it's it's very connected itself so it is like
uh it's i have been trying to make boo for people
that don't vote so it's like i'm using them as
my you know guinea pigs so it's like i have been
giving to them and see like hey man how would
you save a fighter and i think boo is for that
and not for the super programmer that you know
like that has multiple cars and also for people
that just get tired of neo vim configuring stuff
emacs and all that stuff and they're like i just
want something out of the box that works i have
a question for you there you mentioned that it's
optimized right now for rust right because that's
what you use mostly rust exactly and what's going
to happen when you need to when you have users
because not everyone's going to code in rust
right there's going to go and a lot of other
programs how are you going to work how isn't
that going to be a lot of work is it going to
have like a plug -in system or you're going to
build everything yourself yeah excellent question
i think like now so boo used three teacher like
uh it was like The syntax highlight works for
every language so far. Most of the languages,
not every language. But my goal is actually to
have both of the languages or protocols built
in. So it's like you download what you need and
you run with the things that you need. But you
don't need to go someplace to get, you know,
like, you don't need to go there and say, like,
I want to go like a plugin to run this. Like,
no, it's already there. It's an option there.
So I think there's like, that's my other challenge
with food. It's like, I think that the language
adoption would need to be one by one. And it's
just like, it's one big time. Like, cause there's
the thing, like you need to put quality on what
you do. You need to sit, test, repeat, and then
say like, oh, people, they use Rust, they don't
like this. feature and then you extend the rust
like things in blue and that would be the same
for glow like people like only to like kind of
like give in bull is called actually runtime
so it's like uh it's basically what you would
call a in being like the plugins and all these
type of things it's like call it runtime in bull
and it's like uh it has like the part anyone
can go there and modify by themselves so it's
like the community could go there and just say
like yeah i want now i want the runtime to auto
like to do like the auto format of the code like
by default and then they would go and change
the code there uh i mean it's a long it's a long
project like i have i work with it like i have
been working with it for alpha year i i think
like not even in the end of 2026 it's gonna be
done but it's like i like to imagine that it's
gonna have a close bet ready in the end of this
year for some people it sounds like a lot of
work and it does sound yeah don't you have enough
with rio no never enough man the house play you
love issues in github Oh yeah, apparently I did.
I did help. Okay, good. Thanks for sharing about
your editor in progress. We're going to see how
that continues. I'm going to subscribe to your
channel. I didn't even know that you had a channel
because you don't post it on YouTube, on Twitter,
right? Yeah, I will try to do more often. It's
true. It's very new. I posted a few times and
now I try to have some consistency. hmm okay
yeah i will subscribe so i will be able to see
the updates there and i'll we'll see how how
everything turns out by the end of 2026 and um
we already talked about this fashion rust you
showed that already um let's talk about this
is really important ide so you were using new
vim What are you using now? So you went back
to Notepad, you went to the basics, or what are
you using now? Believe it or not, I was using
Vue for Rust, and I used Sublime for a long time,
because I got to use it with the frontend fully.
I think that they had good frontend stuff back
in 2013, 2015. And frankly, I still think that
they have... One of the best cursors, multiple
cursors of the market. I think that they do a
lot of stuff very well. Supply? Yeah, supply.
I had a call with one of the Helix. He's a contributor,
a Helix contributor. I still have to edit the
video and upload it, but I did really love the
work that they do with multiple cursors. it's
amazing it's amazing i think that i think there's
a thing that i'm trying to copy in boo but it's
boo has like no but then i just spoiled it the
thing is like i also had to reinvent the mouse
the multiple mouse because the thing is like
since you cannot use mouse in boo it's like it's
not allowed like you don't even have the functionality
oh like there's no work so it's like I had to
write a lot. But then users are going to come
in. You know how it is. You know how it is. No,
but this is different. Boo is not built for mainstream.
It's like real, everyone can use. But Boo is
like, you like mouse -free editors. You don't
want mouse. If you like mouse, don't even come
here. No, exactly. I think that this should be
part of the premise. I don't think I will be
ever adding that to Boom. Because if I add it...
Okay, one thing there I noticed, like, right
in Boom. If you add any type of functionality,
partially, it's like, oh, you're going to have
mouse support. Then you're going to do the things
as baked. It's like... You're not going to think
like, oh, this person does not have a mouse.
What would happen? No, you start to consider
that people have mouse and then you do like an
editor that considers that people have mouse
and they should just click on that. And I think
that I like about Veeam and Emacs because they
stayed true for many years. So they actually
developed quite well. due to the restrictions
you know what i mean like they had many restrictions
back in time and they're still thankful for those
restrictions and i think bull should also understand
this like hey man there's no mouse like you need
to make a mouse experience by the terminal and
you should make that looks good and how you do
that i think that that is like Well, I have actually
did so many prototypes. One was called Linkshot,
which was like you held the key for a while and
then would scroll up and scroll down, depending
on the type of the press. But it didn't work
out. At the end of the day, it was very weird.
So it's like I've been exploring different ideas
of how to do an editor that actually makes you
feel. that you force it to type like you need
to type there's no other way and uh but yeah
man it's like it is very i think that this is
fun you know like this is the fun thing i think
that this is i think that food is different than
here there's like one thing that i'm glad about
who is that close at source so it's like it's
kind of my laboratory no one has access i do
crazy stuff and if i don't like it just throwing
trash yeah but hey you If I do something and
someone likes, they do a fork and they copy and
move to Heave. Like today, one time I did something
and then I didn't like it and I removed it out
from Heave. But I think it was a Russian guy,
he forked the project and he was like, oh, but
I really like this feature, they will remove
it. And then he started to use, you know, the
fork from there. yeah from the fork and then
people started to be like oh i like this work
like i'm gonna use this and it's very different
you know like and what happened did you add the
feature back no i talked with the dude and i
added in another way like it so i had to actually
change the architecture of he should fit that
and uh and follow the behavior work so feature
that i didn't even want so you have to be really
careful with which features you introduce once
it's in beta or out there because yeah no but
this is the big one now that like it's just like
it's just me yeah it's just like i break stuff
i like that i don't like it you know i do i do
like weird stuff sometimes i do very weird stuff
and then In the end of the day, I have to do
it. You know what I mean? Like, okay. Like, I
live my life. And then, like, if I do that in
here today, people, like, I start to do the plugins
in here, in WebAssembly. And then people are
like, well, why not Lua? Why not this guy? Why
not that? And I was just like, guys, just let
me explore. I need the time to think about things.
Like, you know what I mean? Like, because if
you don't even try the solution, how would you
know? Yeah, if that's the best one. But it's
like, I think that this is a thing where people
are like, oh, give me access, give me access.
And I was just like, no, man. Like, I don't want
people's opinions so far. I don't want people
saying like, oh, this is good, this is bad. Because
if they start to say this, then my mind would
be like, oh, so this was good. Yeah. I would
start to follow that, you know what I mean? I
don't know if that makes sense. Maybe it's just
me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. It makes sense. You
want to make it perfect for you, see how people
react to it. Yeah, if people don't like it, I'm
okay with that. I think there's a different relationship
from here. As long as it works for you, right?
Because I mean, how many tools have created for
people themselves, right? You don't think about
anyone else. As long as it works for me, I'm
more than happy. And if that happens, there's
a lot of people that is going to follow along.
right because if you like it a lot of people
will like it as well a lot of people will dislike
it but that's the way it is right so 50 50 all
the time exactly i think that is the this is
the issue i think with like products in general
like everyone wants day two like in in one thing
in one way that fits the necessity yeah because
like i use firefox but i use firefox because
well i'm attach it to mozilla somehow like i
have this memory people are starting to criticizing
me for use python and then like it was just like
sure man like so should i use chrome and and
and you know like and then you guys are gonna
be okay so you're happy uh -huh yeah exactly
and it's like the other person wants me to use
a tool that they want me to use because they
believe there's the right to It's just insanity
at the end of the day. Yeah, that's the world
we live in. That's the way it is. No, one thing
I like about Ghostie is one thing that Misha
did was he wrote everything in Zeke. And man,
he didn't give a damn. You know what I mean?
He didn't care if people were going to... be
like oh why like why is he by this and why not
yeah people did the question and i think it's
like he liked it more like he does not need to
give like a technical reason like uh i think
one thing that he said i saw in podcast was like
it's like languages are like different flavors
like of ice cream sometimes you like more vanilla
sometimes you like more strawberry And I like
that mentality as well. It's like, yeah, I want
to do, I actually have no mouse. You don't like
that? Dude, just use other stuff. Yeah. Like,
I'm good with that. Like, you know, I'm going
to survive. And you don't like him? Man, go with
Ghost. Go with, like, Apple Terminal. Like, I'm
good with that. Like, you know, like, it's not
an offense or anything. Yeah, that's one of the
reasons why I keep everything in my .dat files,
because I could keep all of the stuff. Let me
show you all of the stuff that I have here. I
have a lot of stuff, man, but I could create
repos out of these. I don't want to. You know
why? Because I'm going to start getting a lot
of issues, discussions. I don't want it there
for me. and i just modify them to my liking if
i want to change from csh to bash one day i just
do it nobody's gonna say anything and if someone
does it's just like hey man it's my that files
just yeah them and yeah but yeah i think you
have to do it for yourself and people is going
to follow along people with the same mentality
will find it and say oh i really like this it's
really interesting and they're gonna start yeah
it's a big surprises me about here because like
when i started it's like um like it started and
there are some people that stay there they aren't
steering the discord active for two years and
yeah frankly when i started he was so bad that
i didn't understand like people were using But
now I think it's starting to become a really
competitive editor, like Terminal. And it has
features that many people like. People write
in Reddit that they enjoy Rio and stuff like
that. But when I started, it was not good, man.
It was not a piece of software that I was proud
of. but they they stay it you know like i think
that they maybe like it the way that i approach
it and like uh and that they stay there and then
yeah i don't know always surprised me because
like it kind of like they took you as like uh
i don't know like a toy project or extra project
and they just stayed there for fun and then using
the terminal i think that that is like a very
tough you would say Hmm. Yep. Okay. And so you
use Boo right now mainly to write Rust. What
if you have to edit other type of files like
a bash script? What do you use? Do you use Vim
or do you still use Boo there? Man, I actually,
this is a good question. I have like, I have
probably six or seven editors where I change
every day. So it's like I tried to learn with
a different editor. So it's like mostly I think
that I've been using Zed. But I use Envy a lot.
Well, when I'm in Linux, it's just Envy. I don't
have anything to do other crap. Yeah, when I'm
on Linux, it's just Envy. But when I'm on Mac,
I change a lot. Like I use Zed, Sublime. I just
don't use VS Code, but it's like... It's not
that I have anything against... Maybe I have
something against VS Code, I don't know, but
it's like... But... No, I think VS Code... You're
ashamed? You're ashamed that people see you using
VS Code? Is that it? I don't even have it installed
right now. I think I don't even have it on here.
Maybe I have it on the computer. But it's like...
No, the thing is like... I have problems with
Electro apps. I think they are not paid for that.
But in the same way, I think VS Code is such
a great idea because it takes the most popular
language, JavaScript, and gives to this most
popular language power enough to break through
applications. So it's like... I don't think I
have been thinking a lot about Vue, because it's
like... I would love to have the VS Code plugin
working in Vue. So I have actually tested two
Vue versions, one with the JS Engine and the
other one without it. And I think I'll give you
this officially so you download whatever suits
you. But it's like... I think it's like, man,
JavaScript has power, you know, like it's just,
people just love to write JavaScript for, to
download good stuff. And I think it's like, in
some ways, like it feels more as a scripting,
I know it's crazy, I know this is crazy, but
sometimes I feel that it feels more as a scripting
language than Google. Not because I dislike Blue.
I think Blue is great and it's very intuitive.
But it's just like every person knows JavaScript.
Have you ever thought about it? Every programmer
at some moment wrote a JavaScript line of code.
Even if it was to do something in the browser,
like to trigger alert. And I have to think a
lot about it. Should I just do it? Should I just,
you know, like, do, like, a JavaScript, like,
board for plugins in Boo efficiently? And what's
going to happen, because there's a lot of plugins
in the VS Code ecosystem, aren't you afraid of
breaking changes, like, breaking stuff in your
editor? Yeah, I think this is actually what has
been held in me. But I think, like... That's
what I say. I think that's great. I think VS
Code was needed for many people because people
can just prototype stuff. They can just create
crazy stuff. It's very quick to do anything.
But in the same way... Like you said before,
there's people that just want to open something,
go through a marketplace, install what they need,
and start working. You don't have a lot of flexibility.
You just... you can get started in 10 minutes
new event on the other hand not that exactly
simple yeah exactly but i wish there was something
in the middle because like i think the ds volt
is like it's just that they do like come on it's
like a browser running there there's a lot of
magic yeah but uh i think it's it's it's a great
piece of software no great piece of software
maybe i'm not being honest but it's like uh i
think it's like a great product like it's not
a great piece of software but i think it's a
great product it's like it makes people you know
like forget what they want very quick yeah yeah
it makes sense yep yep all right and uh let's
see we've been here for two and a half hours
i don't think we will have time to go through
all the questions Because it's really late for
you already, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's just
talk here. We already talked NeoVim. I would
like, well, we already talked a lot about editors.
Let's just talk operating systems and we can
wrap it up there, right? Sounds good. Yep. Mine?
Yep. man i my favorite to me yeah oh jesus people
is gonna pick sides so be careful because you're
gonna get the mac os guys upset or the linux
guys upset okay so if i if i if i say i think
like lately for here I feel that I have been
helping more the macOS side because I have been
working more with macOS but if I were talking
about philosophy I think I side more with Linux
and it's like I have more beliefs on that on
that side so either I don't know just 50 50.
your heart is divided yeah i also have a heart
for windows maybe 10 to 20 percent because like
as i said like man it's hard to learn how to
code through windows like i was i didn't have
money and you know like and when i was in japan
everyone was using windows there like everyone
oh really yeah so it was just like it was not
like it was not like oh 10 people, 40. It was
like everyone was using, like every coder was
using it. And it made me think like, yeah, man,
like, well, OSs are just, you know, like, like
you get your job done, whatever you use. So I,
I have a lot of respect for Alu. I think I just,
I have a few problems like with each in different
aspects like i don't i think that this linux
desktop needs to hold a lot of stuff yet and
i think that like uh match like um i i think
i'm i'm more use it because i have been using
more professionally the past years but i i have
two problems for example with the way that they
they do things apple does think and uh And I
think Windows, I have problems with the quality
of the OS. Like I feel that sometimes people
just break things like... The blue screen, the
blue screen out of nowhere. So I think that this
is a thing for me that I don't like on Windows.
But man, all the three, they have like strong
sites, you know what I mean? and if you if you
if you have a machine that's very weak in terms
of hardware like linux is so great there like
uh it's like i have this machine here and it's
like it i bought this second hand it's very old
and it's like i run arc there as people say art
by the way and uh but you have a kid right yeah
so you're not on an arch user because uh oh i
cannot be and no i think that the thing with
arc is like it took a time to get it popular
already like uh but then man arc scripts they're
like like once you get that stalling arc script
right then you're good like you don't need to
worry more and Why Mac, though? Like, why not
Linux? At this point in life, right, you seem
more aligned with Linux. But why are you using
Mac? I think I still, because I don't know if
you remember, I used to work with design at some
moment. So it was like, I think at some moment
I felt that the hardware for designing Mac OS
was much better than in Linux. I was just like,
it was not impossible to be a good designer on
Linux. But for example, if I wanted to use like
Retina or like all these, you know, like displays
that Mac does have. And a friend of mine was
just like, yeah, sure, but you can run Linux
on Mac hardware. And I was just like, man, this
looks good. But I never did. I don't know why.
So maybe at some moment I should just give it
a try. In Mac, what CPU are you using? Are you
on Intel or Apple Silicon? I've been using Intel
for a long time, but now, thank God, the ARM
is like a new era. And how do you feel about
battery life, for example? No, compared to Linux,
it's not like Linux. sometimes i leave the computer
up and running for three days and it's just like
alive with the battery yeah and this guy here
is just like he gets the job done like i wish
that i was using this more but i am a lazy person
so sometimes i just open the computer that is
in the main and i keep holding it so you get
Three days of battery life on the Linux computer.
Yeah, my one, yeah. But I don't have much stuff
on my Linux, to be honest. Just Rio, Rust, and
Git. Oh, okay. Okay, yeah, because that's a lot.
That's a lot. I have used Intel -based machines.
I used to have a laptop, and the battery didn't
last not even three hours, right? that's one
of the reasons i think i'm still in mac os battery
life because this m1 computer's battery for me
lasts um a long time but um yeah there's a big
difference i agree yeah yeah but this one man
my arc is you can see it's very simple probably
i think i better have stuff to work I tried to
keep simple there. Okay. Okay. Good to know.
All right, Rafa. So is there anything else you
want to share before we wrap it up? Just remember
to send me your links, the YouTube, GitHub, all
that stuff. So I can put it in the video description.
And yeah, anything you want to share, anything
you want to, I don't know if there's someone
watching still, but. probably there's a couple
guys from my discord that i that are still watching
so any una anything you want to share i don't
have anything that i want to share uh so far
i hope that i have something ready to share about
bull in the next post but i don't have anything
now okay wonderful so anytime you want to join
a call just let me know if you want to share
stuff let me know and I'm more than glad to have
you here. No, it was my pleasure. I appreciate
the talk. It was good. Yeah. Thanks for your
time. So I'll see you till the next time. All
right. See you, man. Bye.