Hi, I'm Travis and this is Bestie Approved. I'm
hanging out with my new friend who believes that
joy is a form of courage and a... powerful uh
act of resistance which uh is absolutely bestie
approved um amy dickens is the creator of the
joyfully you podcast and the author of 101 ways
to spread joy uh and she's a coach and a voice
encouraging people to create joy for themselves
and others around them um amy i'm gonna let you
introduce yourself and kind of we'll we'll see
where the vibe takes us sweet yeah i also love
i thought you like sticky note into the book
So absolutely precious. I love your little self.
It's, it's incredible. You get a gold star. Appreciate
it. Yeah. I'm Amy Dickens. I am on a mission
to help reconnect people to their joy and their
play as a tool of transformation so that we can
become the version of ourselves that we came
here to be by helping, you know, regulate our
nervous systems the fun way because I've done
like 10 years of all the different things and
it's one of the tools that every single day I'm
like, whoa. that actually works and more recently
it's also dived into how can we create ripple
effects of joy to create change in this world
how can we you know kind of build bridges instead
of more division and uh create ripples of change
of like you know you walk into the room and that
one person that's really joyfully like i feel
so much better after talking to them and you
know you could be like totally different kind
of people but you're like oh it's just something
about them i don't know what it is there's a
ripple there you know because they're making
a real single day If you're like really mad or
sad or scared, you know, you get scared with
that ripple. You know, you're like, I talk to
my mom sometimes. I love you, mom. You're the
best if you're listening to this. But sometimes
there's like a fear ripple that can happen from
that. Sure. And then there's totally like joy
ripples as well. Nice. I love that. Yeah. Very
cool. Before we get into deep, what is the last
song we let you listen to? This is something
we ask everyone. Oh, I love this. I was thinking
about that. I don't know. I haven't listened
to any music today, but I have been singing around
the house today. And for some reason it's been
little mermaid. I was just walking around the
house and like, look at this stuff. I love that.
A little like musical one by myself. Nice. I'll
take it. Yeah. Love. Cool. My last song was the
Steve Aoki remix of Happened to Me by Russell
Diggerson. I'm like, I'm very into that song
right now. So, love that. I love listening to
it. It's so good. Yeah. Have you ever played
We're Not Really Strangers? No. Okay. Pick a
number between 1 and 15. 12. 12. Okay. I feel
like this is a really good one for you, actually.
What has been your favorite age so far? Oh, wow.
That's a great one. For a very long time, actually,
it was 12. Up until the last couple of years,
there was a strange thing that happened in my
childhood where when I was 12, I had this random
year where I was just very confident, which I
know is not... typical for like middle schoolers
only unleashed i would like walk in the middle
of class like do like a dinosaur impression like
very loud not just like oh she's cute she's being
like alarms like screaming at the top of my lungs
in the middle of class and would just be like
i don't know screaming and like it's just dancing
and giggling and putting stickers all over and
i don't know it's like this one little flip and
i hold that year very fondly in my memory Wow.
That one year where I really knew who I was.
And I remember that was one year where I always
said like every year, you know, people like,
when do you want to be when you grow up? And
it would always be something like, I want to
be an author or a doctor or whatever. And what
do people want me to say? And that year I said,
I want to be a talk show host like Ellen, because
I used to love watching Ellen. And that's pretty
funny. That's like the closest I think I ever
got to what adult Amy is like now. That's awesome.
I love that. So we live in a really challenging
world right now. And I think your message can
help a lot of people. Even if it's just like
a reminder to like check in with ourselves as
we're heading into the new year. So I kind of
want to get into your journey. So you talked
a little bit in the beginning of the book about
how your journey was stark. your journey was
sparked by a struggle with social anxiety, depression,
and some health issues. And it kind of ultimately
led to burnout. And I feel like this is something
a lot of people can like really recognize in
themselves. What did this moment look like for
you when you decided to like make a change and
kind of start this journey? Yeah. I mean, I wish
that there was just like that one, you know,
like shining star moment where I was like, this
is the moment that the change happens. And then
I, you know, made a change and I never, you know,
like went back to my old habits, but I think
a lot of us probably can resonate with like,
there's a lot of little moments where we're like.
Yeah, I can hear that voice. And so something
needs to change. But do I change? No, you just
keep doing it. And it gets louder and louder.
And I think the louder and louder was happening
in lots of different ways. You know, the health
issues that start happening, that's no coincidence.
All of these things are also interrelated. You
know, the brain body connection of your mental
health is getting worse and your physical health
is getting worse because you can't digest things
when you're completely dysregulated all the time.
And when you're not digesting things, you have
no energy and then your adrenals are burning.
out because you're like ah i'm just trying to
like burn the candle at both ends and like try
to earn my sense of worthiness in this world
by what i'm doing and also doing all of the things
that i think i should be doing rather than what
i actually want to be doing because i just want
to be laughable and i think if i do all the things
that people want me to do even though no one's
even saying this to me we all just like kind
of absorb these moses you know I was just getting,
you know, sicker and sicker, which that was honestly,
I hate to say that was like one of the main things
I was like, wow, I am like in my mid twenties
and I feel awful. I'm really like was physically
struggling, which, you know, sends you on a path
to seek when Western medicine is like, you're
perfectly healthy. There's nothing wrong with
you. And you're like, something's got to change
here. So you start looking all over the place,
at least if you're me, I'm like. Sure. We're
not settling for this. There was that little
flicker of hope within that always said it gets
better. Like it gets so much better. You're meant
for so much more. There was always this really
strong connection to purpose my whole life. And
it was really, I guess, awful. It was this awful
thing. I would literally cry myself to sleep
and I'd be like, I don't know what my purpose
is. one person that doesn't have a gift or purpose
like who who is it how is woe is me and i would
like read all these books and try and like think
my way through it you know doing all these quizzes
according to my calculations like this and not
realizing that my purpose was it in i don't know
trying harder and like crunching and doing and
trying to perform to be someone other than myself
it was in letting go of a lot of that and healing
and doing all of that and there was one moment
where It was actually the day before the pandemic
hit. I used to work at a grade school and we
had we had a particularly rambunctious group
of kindergartners that year. There's one that's
biting my arm on this side. And there's another
kid that's trying to get this kid that's biting
my arm. And I'm like holding this kid back with
my other arm. And I'm like, you know, like kind
of keeping them away from each other so they
don't just like absolutely, you know, destroy
each other. And I remember having this moment
where I silently look up at the ceiling and I'm
just like, God. help me and then the next day
the whole country shut down jesus christ oh amy
be careful what you wish for so that that space
that i actually got of because in that moment
i was still really struggling with like social
anxiety and all these things It was like, everything
was like taken off my plate. It's like, you can't
go into work for the next two weeks and then
two weeks. And you know how that went. And something
about that spaciousness, honestly, of removing
the constant, like needing to do stuff. It, it
allowed me this space to breathe and say, Whoa,
I actually completely want to change my life.
my partner at the time. And I said, do you want
to sell all of our stuff and move into a van
with our cat? Like I've always wanted to do.
And like, that was just a dream of mine. And
then that just kind of led down this path of
doing one thing, then the next and the next that
was actually aligned with what I wanted to be
doing. And, you know, that were like simultaneously
scary and so exhilarating like that. Oh my God,
I've been dreaming of this and following my joy
is really what I started calling it. I'm just
going to do. you know whatever it is that sparks
that joy like in big ways and little ways and
it was a very tumultuous ups and downs and heartbreak
and you know all of the things in there i just
turned into like a wacky and playful tube man
in that i love it yeah so we did so did you actually
end up moving into a van for a little bit or
oh yeah we lived in a van for a year and a half
It was great. I love that. Like, I think it was
like a totally a little cocoon for me of like
the version, the Amy that walked into the van
and like walked out of the van for the last time
were two very different people because I, I mean,
Hey, you just change your environment and like
the people that you're with and how your date,
like your habits are constantly changing that
it's, it's a highway to changing into maybe who
you want to be if you are really like growth
oriented, but. Definitely you're going to become
a new person and you're really gonna have an
opportunity to be very grateful. Like to this
day, it's been four or five years since, you
know, that whole time. And like literally on
the regular, wow, I don't have to think about
where my water comes from. There's like, I can
take a shower every single day if I want to.
I can like, I don't know, like all of these little
things that we take for granted, you know, like
when we just live in a normal house, it's like
so. nice to just be very appreciative of these
really micro little things that I think honestly
does help just fill that little joy cup of like
wow okay there's a lot of things that are going
really well right now actually yeah but I think
there is something to be said for like this idea
of like I it comes to like from cocooning for
some people but I think like there's like this
thing of like I just have to shed like all of
the stuff and like I have to like I have to like
do something because like I need some kind of
like radical fundamental change in my life and
like you it's like it forces you to get back
to basics almost right where it's like I think
oh god I think it was Casey Rose Wilson on Bitch
Sesh was her podcast and she was talking about
how like I think it was shortly after her mom
passed and she I could be telling the story completely
wrong like but what I remember is like she went
into her closet for like two weeks and she's
really good friends with like June Diane Raphael
and like June Diane was like I'm very worried
about you like and then she like came out like
a different person like it's like the butterfly
emerges a little bit so I think there's probably
something to that. And I think Marie Kondo, because
you said sparking joy, and Marie Kondo's whole
thing is you have to let go of the stuff. We
have to simplify our space, and it has to come
to a place of almost breaking everything down
to its simplest form and getting back to, okay,
how do we get somewhere with what we know we
have to work with? So what did like the earliest
versions of like this iteration of finding joy
look like for you, like after you came out of
living in a van? Yeah. Okay. First off, I love
that metaphor of it as like letting go of the
stuff, you know, like Marie Kondo's like physical
stuffy stuff, but there's emotional, mental,
all the other stuff. I'm like, I haven't really
had nothing like connected that exact dot. And
I love that. That's like so true that there,
like I literally was like getting rid of all
the physical stuff. all of like the masks and
like old identities and just parts of me that
I think a part of me is like, this isn't you
like, just the radical changes allows it to be
a little easier sometimes. Yeah. And the emotional
mental noise, I think Bethany Frankel and her
book, a place of yes, called it like, it's like
food noise and like money noise and like all
the noise. So like, I think your, your, your
metaphor is perfect. And like, I think I just
associated it with, with like real stuff, but
like, yeah, you're, you're, stuff like your mental
stuff is probably a lot heavier than like the
physical stuff you're carrying around so yeah
there's i mean for sure but the the noise or
the the the mental stuff however you want to
call it yeah for sure like you have to get rid
of that all of that and i mean i'm like thinking
like you know it's like you're you're wanting
to to like almost reach towards something new
sometimes certain chapters but if you're holding
on to like these old bags back here and you're
like i don't know why i can't grab this new thing
that i want You got to let go of the old bag.
You got to let go of it, Amy. You can't bring
it into the new one. You're like, oh. We all
have those moments time and time again where
we're like, I don't want to let go. And then
you do it like, oh, wow. It's such a beautiful
release of a moment. But that limbo is very uncomfortable
in between like, I just let go of this bag and
I haven't reached the new one yet. What is happening?
For sure. Yeah. But this new, like after that
moment, I actually, the moment of leaving the
van was a pretty huge, the big life change I'd
say of my life where I broke up with my partner
of 11 years. And it was like a very sudden, just
like moment of clarity that I had. He's an incredible,
amazing human to this day. I'm just like, wow,
you're great. We're about to get married in like
nine months. And that's just something I was
like, wow, you're not my person. You're an incredible
human. She's not my person. And like pretty much
overnight, I went from we're you know living
together like planning all the things to oh my
god what am i doing i have to go and i just literally
had my friend like drop me off in the middle
of the redwoods with like a backpack full of
stuff and i was just like walking through the
redwoods like crying every day like what am i
doing with my life yeah i just lost my like partner
my cat my community my job all the things like
what am i doing and but also feeling i don't
know almost like uh like a movie character i
think a little bit of whoa I'm about to start
a grand new adventure. You know, there's, there's
like this hero's journey. I think that I'm really
stepping into that feels like it's divine timing
almost of, all right, like do it. And the others,
there's pressure there of like, wow, I literally
let go of everything. Like I have to make a choice.
Like I burned all my bridges. There's nowhere
to go back to right now. Like I have to move
forward. There's no, there's no looking back.
There's no holding onto any comfort. Cause I
literally just. burnt it all to the ground basically
in a kind way but you know there just wasn't
any going back to it which it was a painful thing
but it was really like a beautiful awakening
moment of okay what would bring me joy right
now and that was the moment where I was like
wow for the past seven or eight years I've said
I want to be a yoga teacher I'd look like I've
been dreaming of it I'd been sat in so many different
yoga classes like wow that just seems really
incredible like I was totally pedestalling all
of my yoga teachers being like they are like
a different species I don't know how I would
ever do that I feel the same way though honestly
like anytime I go to a yoga class I'm like who
is this wonderful creature talking to me like
right I'm like are they just like angels like
descended down like how who are they how who
am I to think that I could you know become one
of those So I said, I'm going to, so I looked
online and I found one that I was like, wow,
that one seems really resonant with me. I booked
a one -way ticket and this, you know, pretty
much long story. So I started booking one -way
tickets after that. Cause I got to this yoga
teacher training and day one, I said, well, I
don't think I'm actually meant to be a yoga teacher,
but it was this like full body chills. i'm meant
to be here in this seat right now and whatever
i'm learning here which i think was really just
a comfort zone of learning to share my voice
because my journey of like i'm so scared to say
anything to anyone i have horrible social anxiety
like i'm just gonna like zip it like never be
heard to you know god the universe whatever you
want to call it being like hey here's a little
here's a little you know uh journey of you can
be yoga teacher because as you're teaching yoga
you're moving around the room you're breathing
you're like regulating your nervous system you
got like a you know like a format of like these
are the things that you're saying to the people
you know it's like pretty rhythmic and i fell
in love with it and i was like i just the time
and then I started teaching yoga and I was like
up there and I just wanted to get people dancing
so then I kind of like start I called it flow
gun I get people like dancing on the mat a little
bit and then from there I just want to get people
playing and you know it just kind of was this
whole I don't know very I feel like a lot of
times in life growth is you know slower but for
whatever reason this year it was like i don't
know if it was just like backlogged and all of
a sudden it was like rocket fuel and it was like
every month i was just like i don't know who
i'm gonna be i'll be in bali next month teaching
a yoga teacher training and then i'll you know
be like learning the ukulele and now i'm a singer
and i like lead song circles and i was just like
doing all of these different things and following
my joy along the whole way being absolutely terrified
very constantly but also having like the highest
of highs in the most like grounded wholesome
way not like a i don't know yeah drug you know
kind of like oh my god no i think you were probably
experiencing flow state where it's like okay
like i'm like there's there's like confidence
right that like you're you're gaining from like
okay like i can share my voice like my voice
is valid and then like I think you were building
momentum. I don't think it was, I mean, it could
have like backlogged maybe, but like, I think
more so is like, it's like, oh, I can do this.
Let's fucking go. The fact that you called it
a flow state. I love that. I don't know if you
know, Dr. Stuart Brown, he's done a lot of research
on play and he, I don't even know how, he's been
doing it for decades and he's found like fascinating
stuff. He wasn't, I don't think even like trying
to get into the work of play. He was just kind
of like. researching i think prisoners and then
he found this like fascinating statistic somehow
and like by we're interviewing all of them that
all almost all of them that had like committed
horrific crimes of like murdering people you
know like those like really like wow almost all
of them barely played as children like almost
all of them had like no um ability or experience
to do that in their childhood and then he was
like what's going on here and so you know it
kind of like led into the curiosity of like dig
deeper dig deeper and now you know he's got the
whole like national institute of play and you
know just like all of his research is dedicated
to how is this really beneficial for not just
kids but also adults and like what is this doing
for our brain and one of the ways that he describes
play is also really similar to flow like where
time just ceases to exist and you're totally
absorbed in what you're doing and then he added
he adds on with play it's also like there's a
sense of purposelessness to it you know it's
not yeah i'm trying to get this thing done or
you know get like some results out of it it's
just for the sake of it in the sake of the enjoyment
and the beauty of it and it's it's a fascinating
thing because we do really grow so much and i'm
like i think there's gosh i think it's it takes
400 times to like repeat a new action to create
that new neural pathway of like oh okay this
is a new habit and when you're playing while
you're doing it it reduces it by like i don't
know you 10 to 20 times doing that thing then
you're like yes this is in my bones because it's
like all of those neurochemicals in your brain
and the neuroplasticity you're just like yes
we want to learn new things in this state whatever
we're doing in this we're just like yeah that's
the new me and it really is just highway to becoming
a new version of yourself and it's just great
it also was fun oh yeah i want to go back to
the yoga thing for a second because so i've talked
a lot on uh the podcast about like how i don't
do organized religion like it's just not a thing
for me because i don't like it um but like the
Like when I go to a yoga class, that's probably
the closest I've ever felt to like what people
describe going to church to be. So like, I guess
my question is like, how did yoga shape your
approach? Because I think it, I mean, like we
can get into the woo of all of it, like whatever.
But like, I think there is something pretty transformative
about like forcing yourself to stop and just
like, listen to your voice, listen to your body.
And like, there's like a whole. like i mean there
is science behind like the mind -body connection
but there's also something very spiritual about
it like how did that kind of shape your approach
yeah absolutely i mean i definitely i'm not one
for like any organized religion personally but
i am a very woo and spiritual person i guess
you would say yeah i definitely have like a a
deep connection to like that ineffable essence
that's beyond any what any of us could ever imagine
but not like the i don't know kind of like this
is the rules and regulations yeah But, you know,
if you have flexible as your boat, that's totally
fine by me. And yoga is it was it was like holding
hands with a lot of other like spiritual like
things that I was reading. I was just kind of
in this season of like, well, what is going on
in the universe? I'm going to read all of the
things and listen to all the podcasts and just
be very curious about all of it. And I think
yoga really helped open me to. just like presence
like just like being okay of it you know i think
that there's in like western world you know we're
really like we fill every second of every day
with like thoughts or doing or and there really
is something to whoa what if i just did nothing
and i just stopped and i just sat with the breath
and I sat with whatever came up and it was okay.
And the world didn't implode and close around
me. And the deep moments of connection that can
come through that and a million other ways. But
I think that yoga can be a really beautiful bridge
to having those moments of connection. You're
like, wow. when there's so much noise I think
it's harder for us to feel there's something
bigger than all of us and sometimes I'm like
wow I'm so grateful for like this connection
that I feel so deeply my bones to something greater
than all of us because I'm like wow I think like
don't just be really freaking hard without it
and yoga absolutely was a part of that path of
getting back into touch and and re -healing that
connection to that because i i definitely had
like a lot of like god wounds and like church
wounds of being like uh you know like don't ask
questions and you know like that just like put
a really bad taste in my mouth but when i think
back to like little kid amy i always had a really
deep sense of like there's something beyond all
of this that didn't exactly fit the languaging
of you know that i was being taught it was like
wanting to ask questions that wasn't really allowed
so i was like this this is you know not Not for
me, but it gave a different avenue of exploration
to saying, wow, there is something beyond all
of this. And that was one of the keys and tools
that I found to finding my purpose, which I think
truly, I think all of our purpose is just to
like be ourselves, like our truest self. And
obviously from that space, there is a doing like,
you know, there's like, there's things that create
from us being ourselves. But at the end of the
day, it's like. we as souls whoever it is that
we came here to be came here to create some puzzle
piece i always call it a puzzle it's like there's
a huge puzzle in the world and every single person
has one puzzle piece and it's kind of like our
purpose and our job in my perspective to figure
out oh this is who my puzzle piece is through
who i am and when i am that then i can automatically
start to find peace pieces of like people that
are puzzle pieces around me. And we start to
kind of click and create something new together
that we couldn't on our own. And that we couldn't,
if we were trying to be someone else or trying
to, you know, there's some other people that
I'm like, wow, I'm so glad that you love doing
that because that is so not how anything in this
operates, but also there's a puzzle piece that
I hold that I'm like, wow. For other people,
they're like, wow, that makes me want to spoon
my eyeballs out if I think about holding a microphone
on the streets of downtown and like walking around
getting people dancing. Absolutely not. But it's
like my favorite freaking thing in the world.
But if I also, you know, hadn't let go of all
of the masks and the fears and all of the things,
I never would have discovered that. And yoga
was like a stepping stone in the path of discovering
what that is. And now I kind of call it more
like joy. I feel like the. the leading people
into experiences of joy of being in that light
in that presence for me i'm like you know i'm
not a person of like any one way is like the
way for any person like you know what some people
are going to resonate with what i have to say
and some people won't and that's perfect that's
how i know i'm doing you know like take what
resonates leave the rest you are empowered to
like take what floats your boat at any point
in time but if you know being in a space of joy
reminds you of who you really are if you feel
more connected to like whoa this is me and and
that shines a light on what you want to create
in this world who you want to be if it helps
you just like remember that little anchor into
whoa right there's there's something like deeper
inside of me that i feel more connected to if
it's like a why for what you want to create in
the world or whatever it is that's kind of the
whole purpose like deeper beyond i guess just
spreading joy of like sunshine and rainbows for
sure every good yoga class i've ever been to
because i don't know that i've ever been to a
bad one but like the ones that really stand out
to me are like the ones where the i almost call
my the yoga teacher the professor my yoga professor
but the but where the yoga teacher was like yeah
take what serves you and like if this doesn't
feel right to you don't do it and like I think
there's something there because I think this
like and I think it comes back to like what we
were saying earlier about like you you were in
the flow state where like I think this thing
of like okay like connecting to yourself and
like getting getting back into like the core
of you it like really opens you up to like okay
like what comes next almost because I think that
you're like when you're like defining that sense
of I'm like I'm kind of making this up as I go
but like when you're defining like that sense
like the foundation of you like I think it opens
you up to like okay like what what more can I
do what else can I do because like I want to
keep chasing this like feeling but it's not like
chasing the dragon because you're building something
you know what it like does that oh no absolutely
I feel like to me what I'm hearing you say is
almost describing the skill of discernment that
we we have to build along that way because you
because there's like comes this point where like
oh my god no one else is gonna no one else is
gonna and can tell me you know not even like
a guru or whatever you want to say like no one
no one can tell me what is the next step for
me except for me what that's like exhilarating
and that's also really terrifying and yeah build
like you know because no one teaches us this
for the most part of this is what a yes feels
like and this is what a no feels like and this
is and so we just do it basically trial and error
and it's messy and it's like throwing spaghetti
at the wall and seeing what sticks and you do
that you're like wow okay that's what it feels
like when i do it something and it's actually
a no and i don't want to do that so we're gonna
we're gonna fine tune you know getting able to
kind of slow down sometimes because i think sometimes
you know we can overthink also and be like oh
my god like i don't want to make the wrong choice
and i'm gonna like make all the pro and con lists
i'm gonna you know think about it for the next
42 days and all the things and you know the answers
are all definitely within and there's no shape
of that i definitely have them still i'm thinking
of the decision right now that i've been doing
that with i'm like wow okay make a choice yeah
it's it's uh i'm like i think if we could teach
that in schools younger this is like like let's
like hold people's hands of learn how to know
what a yes is and a no is so that you can understand
actually this is my next step and this is not
and obviously there's so many other complicated
things because you know when somebody says like
actually your no is a yes and your yes is a no
and this isn't a safe space and you know then
it gets all complicated and there's a lot of
courage and all kinds of things in there yeah
but yeah so i kind of want to talk about like
so A lot of this comes to learning a lot about
yourself. And I think with learning, there's
also the growing. But something that I think
a lot of people are going to listen to this or
watch this, however they consume it. And they're
going to say, okay, so this is something for
kids. Play is something we associate with childhood.
And you talked about how these violent criminals,
thing that they pretty consistently didn't do
as children was play so like as we grow up we
kind of stop playing and we lose that sense of
like wonder and like childhood and imagination
or whatever what else do we lose when we like
stop playing as grown -ups yeah i mean there's
so much i think that there absolutely is some
correlation because we're the burnout you know
like huge wave sensation that's sweeping the
nation right now. It's like everyone and their
mother and brother are like, wow, I'm burnt out.
And, you know, it's like, no one needs to talk
about that. And I've definitely burnt out myself
enough times. And I think that there's like more
and more and more that we keep having to put
on our plates almost, you know, and I think part
of that sometimes in my experience also is there
becomes the like 72 item to do list of like self
-care things that you also need to start doing
now in addition. all of your work things in addition
to like trying to have a life, but like, you
know, you're like, and then like also sleeping
and all of these things. And when we start to
play that, like when we're not playing, we lose
these like deep social bonds. Cause you know,
we're also the loneliness epidemic. We're all
like so isolated. There is so much depth of connection.
And so like, you know, kids, they become friends
like that. because I mean there's lots of different
reasons but one of the reasons is they start
playing together and they're just immediately
like laughing and giggling and I used to travel
the world and it would shock me where I would
meet people that you know we don't speak the
same language but we do laugh in the same language
because all like it's like just human nature
to be like wow you're you're laughing like I'm
laughing too I don't even really know what you're
laughing about but because you're laughing I'm
laughing and almost having these silly playful
moments i would have with people because i can
i don't know i'm very like animated and how i
talk so i would kind of amp it up to try and
communicate with people that I don't know. And
you're having this moment, you're like, wow,
I actually feel connected to, and we haven't
even really exchanged any words yet. And that
started planting these little seeds of, oh, there's
something really here. And then you start looking
at the research and it's just like the neurochemicals
and all of the things, you know, it's like you
get all this like oxytocin and dopamine and serotonin
and endorphins and all of this helps regulate
your emotions. it is really helps strengthen
your bonds so the people that you're already
in relationship with you feel closer to them
and because you feel closer to them you can feel
more courageous in your life there's like so
much to that of when you feel alone you it's
like it almost like stacks the negativity when
you feel like you have like a tribe behind you
even if they're not physically with you you can
feel a lot more bravery to do the things that
you really want to do but that feel really scary
because you're like okay i got people that are
behind me and it's also it really helps us become
a new version of ourself we really like you know
like there's obviously it's just like it's nice
to be to play to like feel joyful and like connective
but it also is a really beautiful way for us
to start stepping into a new identity of ourself
of like it kind of helps just like make our brain
that malleable neuroplasticity is like amped
up and you're like all right i'm priming myself
to have a better day to have better connections
like we're constantly priming ourselves like
little tiny things like you could have like a
a you know negative conversation with someone
in the morning and that's priming you to have
more negative conversations throughout the day
there was like a study like a cup of coffee it
was a cup of coffee this one blew my mind they
handed a stranger uh uh half of them got a hot
cup of coffee half of them got a cold cup of
coffee and then they you know like what they
were like oh excuse me could you hold this while
i tie my shoe and then they would you know tie
their shoe And then they'd be like, thank you
so much. And they'd walk away. And then 10 minutes
later, another person walked up and said. Would
you mind if I read you a story for one minute
and then you just answered a couple questions
about it in the study that we're doing? And they
were like, sure. And the people who got handed
the hot cup of coffee 10 minutes before to hold,
just holding a hot cup of coffee, were way more
likely to say that the main character was warm,
nice, he was funny, he was charismatic. And the
people who got the cold cup of coffee a few minutes
before said that he was like. I don't know, you
know, like unkind and he was impatient and all
of these like much more negative attributes.
I'm like, wow, that's literally just a cup of
freaking coffee that we're holding. And obviously,
you know, it's like all of other factors, but
there's so much that I think if we just lean
into playing a little more, even just in our
relationships, you know, I think that there's
so much that I've learned about, you know, I'm
very into like, let's like. communicate vulnerably
like with our emotions and like it can get so
serious but if you bring a little sense of playfulness
to something it it just makes so many conversations
so much more like connective people start to
feel safe when you're feeling like oh whoa like
this isn't this like really serious thing that
you're bringing you're bringing like a sense
of levity to it in a sense of oh wow like i can
actually take this harder thing that you're telling
me right now a lot better and obviously there's
you know a line to tow with that yeah so i guess
let's talk about that line so like i mean in
and like how this applies to the real world you've
got i mean consumer confidence is not great right
now you've got the economy that i mean we're
it is hard for like the everyday person to like
survive in this economy um you've got a uh i
mean you've got a presidential administration
who is hellbent on punishing everyone that's
not completely loyal to them and it's it's it's
making and i mean beyond beyond like you know
government like you've got i mean like you've
got violence that's not great right now you've
got like i mean it's every single day on the
news it's like where it's like a barrage of like
oh my christ what is coming next like what like
what is actually happening in the world and like
that's all very real and like so for someone
who's like dealing with that and like i think
a lot of people are more sensitive to it than
than others like how does someone that's like
really dealing with like the impacts of like
all that and how like the societal implications
of all that how does someone invite play into
their life when they're like look what's going
on and i'm my christ australia last like what
two two three days ago like what how do you do
that like absolutely i want to say like first
off i was completely that person for a very long
time that was absolutely totally swept up in
the overwhelm of all of it and just feeling quite
frankly hopeless just like what is But what is
the point of all of this? Like, how do you even
do any of this? And that was like pushing me
to a point because part of me, I guess, was feeling
hopeless. And a part of me deeply has always
felt this sense of like, no, there is hope. I
don't know what it is. There is hope. And I think
that's just like a beautiful, deeper part of
me that I can connect to. But, you know, there's
always been those moments that I can definitely
deeply resonate with. And I can definitely say
that. When I tune in to people that are like
overwhelmed by it, it's because they care. Like
you deeply care, deeply like care and probably
can feel a lot of what's going on in the world.
You feel like mad and frustrated and like out
of control, like, you know, like a sense of like,
what am I supposed to do? And first off, like
we're literally not. designed to be able to know
like our nervous systems weren't designed to
know like like what is going on in my community
what is going on in Australia what is going on
like in every single corner of the world and
then simultaneously get barraged with it you
know like during all of our waking hours like
we're literally not designed for that so I think
the first step that's really helpful to me is
to design my phone because it's designed in like
my screen life like pocket like kind of make
a a moment in your day where you can get informed
and have a at least one day a week where you're
not informed where you're like i'm either off
screens or like i am checked out for like i am
just a human freaking being and i'm not like
like Because I think that that's also part of
our responsibility. I think that because we care
so much, we want to create a new world. I think
we can all agree that we're like, we want things
to change. And we have a vision of, I want things
to look like this. I dream of a world where we
can all get along together. I dream of a world
where we can create, you know, climate change
regulations and all these other different environmental
things where people can just be like safe walking
in the streets, being themselves. We're like,
we're not bombing people, all of these things.
But if I'm in a state of fear, I know, I know
from a fact that I will not create any of those
things in the world. Cause I don't like personally,
I don't think any of us really have the power
to be like, yes, this will change. This will
change. But we do have power in like our immediate
communities and the change that we can, like,
this is where like kind of the ripple effect
starts to come in of, okay, I can't change what's
happening on a macro level in this world. This
is not something that I'm responsible for. i
can change what's happening in my community right
here and we each get to you know hold our own
puzzle piece but the more that we say okay i
can a put my there's a difference between selfish
and self -first one of my mentors she taught
me this and it was hugely revolutionary for me
she's like selfish people they don't know what
they need to fill their cup they have a void
and they're just like i'm gonna take anything
and everything to try and like fill this void
and i don't know what it is self -first people
they're like actually This is what I need to
fill my cup because I know I can't, I can't put
your oxygen mask on. If mine's not on first,
if my cup isn't overflowing, I'm actually not
going to be that helpful out in the world. So
if we like can kind of start to understand, wow,
if I'm prioritizing my joy and my play that I
am not being selfish, I'm actually just seeing
I can make way more impact if I'm in a resource
space versus if I'm spiraling in fear, if I'm
spiraling. confusion if i'm like you know and
all of these overwhelmed kind of things it's
a lot harder to think straight to um take action
from these spaces to be grounded and then on
a more like spiritual woo -woo kind of level
to just embody the version of the world that
we want you know like i think that there really
is something to that like okay i'm gonna like
walk in the world and like be the version of
myself in this world that i wish other people
would also do that too you know and and kind
of embody that go first be the leader that goes
first and and a lot of that starts to circle
back to our screens because they're designed
to be addictive and it's really hard because
our work our social life all of it kind of revolves
around it so having ways where you're kind of
curating your feed so maybe there's like some
place where you go to get informed, but maybe
it's not like, because if you're using social,
I think social media is great. I think it's a
great tool. We get to learn things that like
we would never learn about. It also has a lot
of really negative, not so cool things. So, you
know, if you can curate your feed to be things
that actually fill your cup and like inspire
you and like make you feel creative, or if you
want to use it, like kind of like decide where
is it that you want to get informed? How is that?
Use that little corner to do that. If you're
like, medias for connecting use it like that
curate it like that unfollow things that you're
like actually this makes me feel like you know
like this makes me feel like doom and despair
and then with that i have this thing is i'm not
sponsored by it it just has really helped me
it's called a break it's a little device that
you get and it has an app that's connected to
your phone and you basically like can like boop
your phone to this little brick thing and based
on whatever settings you put on the app on your
phone it like blocks all of the things until
you go back to it again so like i can like go
on my phone now and i can't get on instagram
i can't get on tiktok i can't get on youtube
which is also like helpful for you know if you're
just trying to like focus but we all like just
the the absent -minded we've all caught ourselves
being like wow i don't remember picking up my
phone i don't remember like opening this app
but i'm definitely sitting here scrolling and
i am now doom scrolling and it's helpful to kind
of like pause that thing um to kind of you know
get it from both ends of give yourself that big
why why do you want to create a better world
and that helps fuel you to say okay i my joy
is so important in this world i know this world
is absolutely crazy and it's like the most radical
freaking act to say the world is freaking falling
apart around me and i'm gonna say okay and joy
matters because if i could even like connect
to somebody that i actually disagree with hugely
on big things but if i can connect with them
on a human way in a joyful way before they were
like even like about to like go into like a meeting
say they would most likely like study show make
different choices in that room than if they're
like i'm all pissed off and i'm whatever that
is like you just make different choices in those
two different we all do like every single human
makes a different choice often when they're in
a pissed off state than when they're in there
yeah Well, I think this kind of brings me to
my next point where like, I mean, the science
is there, there've been real studies on this
where like, it's like this, this idea of like
joy or flow state or like what, whatever we're
calling it, because I think this shows up differently
for different people. Like it shows that people
end up having more effective coping mechanisms.
They have better, like improved physical and
mental health outcomes. Like, and then there's
just like, on a scale of it there's just like
a greater overall satisfaction with like your
life so i i mean the the body and the nervous
system really reacts to exactly what you're talking
about i completely agree with you yeah yeah and
you know i i'm like we can like chicken and egg
it a little bit, you know, like, I think I definitely
have caught myself being like, wow, I'll be happy
when I'll be joyful when I will, you know, like,
and like, when my environment's different, when
the, you know, and I think we can all start playing
that game, you know, like, till the day we die,
pretty much. And I think that joy is something
that will like knock on our door, or that it
is like, well, I can't be joyful because of this.
I can't. And understanding, at least for myself,
I personally think that like, there is a moment
of okay, joy isn't always going to be knocking
on my door. Like life is going to be life and
life is going to be chaotic. There's going to
be things that happen, but I can choose how I
move through different moments and the meaning
that I give different moments. And, you know,
cause you can like kind of frame how you're seeing
things and understanding, wow. Okay. If I'm,
you know, not that we have to be joyful all the
time. Like I'm a big, you know, like I feel all
the emotions. I'm like, that's when people are
like, are you sure? I'm like, yes, I do. I'm
a big feeler. big proponent of the joy gym i
call it you know it's like you go to the gym
to like build your like muscle muscles it's like
we gotta we haven't been practicing our joy muscles
we have to practice what is it like to choose
joy when i'm not feeling like it when i feel
bored or sad or stressed or am in a worry spiral
or i'm overwhelmed i can't even tell you the
number of times that i have looked like a little
sad sack like dragging my giant speaker to downtown
being like oh i don't want to do this i'm not
feeling very and then i'm like no like we committed
to this a like that's very helpful but like and
then noticing okay within like three to five
minutes i feel like a completely different person
of just yeah singing and dancing with a bunch
of people and just having a joyful time and setting
the intention. I just want to like make someone's
day right now. I just want to spread some. Yeah.
Well, and I think that like, there's kind of
this. there's something to be said for like just
just go do it like just just go do it's the same
thing with like going to the gym where it's like
i right now i'm trying to teach myself how to
swim and it's like and it's been an ongoing journey
and it's like there are days where it's like
do i actually want to get in this pool and have
this man like in the middle of lifetime fitness
watching me like like flounder around in the
water and then it's like just go do it just just
go do it like and like it like you feel better
at the end of it and like there's like when you
start to prioritize like okay like and i think
you know you're you're to your point of like
you committed to yourself to do this because
like you're not like answering to like a board
of directors saying yeah i'm gonna go take a
speaker downtown and i'm gonna like dance in
like on the corner of like meridian in washington
and like go do this no but like there is something
to be said of like no i said i'm gonna do this
and i'm gonna do it because i know at the end
of the road like i'm gonna feel good about it
so i think there's a hundred percent like something
there too yeah you gotta i mean it it isn't just
like i'm like the spark's always gonna be there
you just kind of have to do it absolutely and
and there like really is something like what
do you have to lose like if you're already feeling
like not so good and then you do it and you still
feel not so good like all right, whatever. But
like, if you do it and you do feel, wow, I believe
in like 50 % better, not like my full best self,
but that's a huge win. Yeah. So for the besties
that are listening right now out there that are
like exhausted with like everything we've got
going on in the world and everything that like,
like every, every responsibility that like every
person has, I guess, what is the first step like
to like in this journey? I mean, there's so many
steps. I'm like, who knows what anyone's like,
there's not like any one way of this is the first
step. But honestly, a really huge thing for me,
I know that it can feel counterintuitive. But
personally, in my schedule, I like to plan something
fun before I fill every other second of my day
in my calendar, because I will do that. i will
do that like i will put all the little boxes
in my google calendar until there's like zero
spaces left i mean the same way yeah right so
saying okay before all of the little spaces are
gone can i prioritize my joy in my play can i
say okay like i'd like to go to choir or i like
to go to dance at this time or i want to like
invite my friends over this night for a pop -up
or whatever it is that you like to do there's
no one right or wrong answer and if you're so
like I don't even remember what I like, Amy.
I don't know what brings me joy. I mean, the
quintessential thing of what did you love doing
as a kid? It doesn't have to be tit for tat.
You know, if you're like, I liked playing, I
don't know, wizards in the forest. You don't
have to go play wizards in the forest. I don't
know why that was first. I didn't play wizards
in the forest, but maybe somebody listening is
like, sure. I did. I played with Harry Potter.
Yeah. Maybe you don't need to do that. Exactly.
You totally could. I think it'd actually be really
fun. Maybe it's just like, Oh, I could go for
a hike. I could like go for a hike and look for.
a huge difference that i've made i have started
i go on like a morning walk and recently i started
saying okay i'm gonna go for this walk and i'm
gonna try and find three miracles and it really
has expanded what my definition of miracle is
that's for sure because otherwise i'll be walking
for all time if i'm looking for like i don't
know a leprechaun to appear out of nowhere um
but it really has expanded the way that I'm looking
at the world and just noticing, wow, like I felt
like a little tiny eggshell that had like fallen
out of a tree the other day. I'm like, wow, that's
incredible. And it just creates a sense of awe
and wonder. It doesn't have to be this whole
big, like I'm like Amy and I'm playing on the
streets, but creating little pockets of joy that
you can even stack onto, you know, little moments.
I think I noticed for myself, even, you know,
I'll be like ordering a coffee say, and I'll
be in. I don't know. I kind of have like two
modes sometimes. Like one of them is like, Amy's
big and she's expensive. And then other ones
like focus productive mode. And I'm like, who
does, I'll be ordering my coffee. And I'm like,
kind of like already onto the next thing. And
I'm not paying attention at all to this human
in front of me. Or I'm like trying to like maximize
my time and be like, let me scroll through my
phone and like trying to answer an email while
I'm like, you know what I'm saying? And recognizing
that I can kind of use these pockets where it's
like, what, two minutes of my day to say, okay,
let me like take a deep breath. And actually
just connect with this person like for two seconds.
And it feels so great to actually just connect
with human beings, like genuinely connect, not
the, Hey, how's it going? Good. How are you?
You know, that like autopilot, like that's good
too. You know, I love that too. But the, like,
you get curious about someone like, or like,
wow, like what's the story behind this jacket
you're wearing? It's really interesting. Like,
did you make that? Like what's going on? Whatever
it is, you know, just kind of. allowing a moment
to get out of your routine and take a deep breath
to rest, to see where we can work smarter, not
harder is also one in terms of like the people
that are feeling real burnt out. I'm learning
a lot about that right now. I'm reading the one
thing in essentialism, work smarter, not harder,
work to add something to that. That's like obviously
a very different topic, but there is, I'm learning
to something to, we often fill our days with
like little mini tasks that aren't actually moving.
needle forward in the way that we think it is
there's like that one thing that we often avoid
we got that done it would like move our productivity
forward in a whole new level yeah nice um so
something i've been i don't know if this has
like bothered you to no end like in this like
in our conversation but um it's something i've
been very kind of intentional about is avoiding
like defining what like what ways you can go
about finding joy. Cause I think it does look
different for everyone. Like, and that's something
that like reading your book, I was like, there's
a lot of stuff in here. I'm just never, I'm simply
never going to do, but, but I was like, there
is some, so you're going down to the middle of
like an intersection or not an intersection,
but like a street corner and you're, and you're
doing like a dance and I'm not going to do that,
but I love that for you. But I'm like, Oh, but
I could do like, I could like make a playlist
for like, like people at work or like whatever
so i think there's something there that's like
you you can take away a lot of things but i think
that there's something that like something that
you talked about uh in the book was like joyful
risks because some of it does feel like you're
it's like oh like can i take a jump can i do
something can i can i like i think it comes back
to this thing of like oh what like how do i like
find like this person that i'm meant to be what
is a joyful risk that you took where it like
healed something in you or like it it kind of
like changed you in some way so many constantly
all the time I I recognize I mean I don't know
if you've heard like the rejection therapy kind
of thing going on yeah internet where people
are like I'm gonna like I don't know scribble
all over my face with like a marker and then
I'm gonna like order my coffee and like do like
a ridiculous thing and like see like like just
be like oh wow like people don't really care
every like most people are just like thinking
okay it's it's been like it's like a fascinating
thing or like this one woman she like was doing
that and she had somehow like it was like i'm
gonna like apply to like a bunch of you know
colleges that i think i'll like never get into
and she ended up like getting into like an ivy
league or something and now she's got like a
seven figure business and she's like doing all
these like like 22 and we're like whoa it's wild
um but there's like some similarities there i've
recognized of leaning into joy i think particularly
sometimes when we're we are feeling so disconnected
from each other and we are so isolated it can
feel risky it can feel vulnerable it can feel
like oh my gosh like my comfort zone is not to
do the joyful thing like because the joyful thing
is pretty countercultural like it's pretty it's
not the norm for most people and i think that's
why it feels risky and vulnerable you know because
it's okay it's not it's not like i don't think
anything that would like most people be like
offended by um for the most part you know i'm
sure there's always you know the odd bird they'll
be like i am already joyful those people are
really humans to me when they say that to me
cool you don't seem like it but it's all good
you like it i love it yeah you're doing great
job's done cool see you later there's um i think
that that moment to notice okay like this is
feeling like you look like in the sea of people
you know i'm thinking like i don't know i go
to like my co -working space where there's you
know like 50 different people all just like zombies
in front of their computer and you know you want
to like create a connection and you know that
risky moment that was like okay i'm gonna like
try and like create a connection with a stranger
right now. Like that feels, it feels like a social
risk because they could say no. And like, we're
all kind of scared of rejection and we want belonging.
And there's so much less of that. I think that
we don't like, we're not like consciously thinking
like, I'm scared to do the joyful thing because
I'm scared of rejection. And it seems a little
scary to face a fear of non -belonging that lives
deep within my body. Yeah. The more that we do
it, the more that it. feels more normal and it
feel like kind of expands our comfort zone you
know and I think that's a huge way that I've
just grown all along the the whole journey of
I mean I used to like I would just like kind
of make myself like do it all the time like I
would literally to the point where I would like
wear my ukulele everywhere with me and like walk
around singing and playing my ukulele just like
being like oh people don't care like yeah nobody
is like oh my god That woman is singing down
the street with ukulele. We must like, I don't
know, sing new things to her. Well, no, I think
that like, and people are going to look at that
in one of two ways. It's like, they're either
going to recognize like, oh, this person wants
to add a little bit of joy to someone's day,
or they're going to be like, look at that. Like,
look at her just like having a time. And I think
either way you look at it is fine. Cause like,
I think that like going back to the rejection
therapy of like, like marking all over your face
with like a crayola marker like i'm simply not
gonna do that but like at the same time like
if someone came up to me and like had marker
all over their face like i'd be like okay like
some of this stuff is just not that deep and
i think yeah like or like it can feel like i'm
like this like radical groundbreaking thing and
i'm like okay diva like mark on your fate like
because like like i mean if like if i like get
into it i'm like yeah this person probably needed
to mark on their face with the marker because
they were having a bad day and they're dealing
with everything that's going on in the world
like and i think it like you you like you get
there somehow of like whatever like it's okay
like i'm gonna be people you know i mean there's
florida man out there you know doing all the
florida man stuff so i'm like like we're not
that strange yeah and i gotta tell you like they're
like it's it's it's a sliding scale i think florida
man is like the best the best one though where
it's like yeah he's like that that man's taking
the cake like he's doing it yeah but we were
looking for an award i don't know if anyone else
was like competing for it but you got it you
got it um i have some rapid fire questions for
you ready uh what's the number one song on your
joy playlist oh number one okay well in terms
of like joy playlists that i share out in the
world um people love who let the dogs out i didn't
know it but people love that song they love it
like if i play it in the streets like people
will like really gather and be like okay yeah
i did scare a group of um non i didn't realize
it at the time they were a bunch of teenage boys
i'm like oh they're gonna love this um and i
was like why are they looking scared of me and
then i realized because they didn't know what
the song was no they didn't speak english so
this random woman comes up like barking got it
another language beautiful okay wow amy what
are the first Sorry. What are the first three
words that come to mind when you hear the word
joy? Oh, uplifting, fun, inspirational. Cool.
What's something that made you smile this week?
Oh, something that made me smile this week. Let's
see. Oh, you know, I had a really sweet conversation
with someone yesterday where they just like totally
saw me. They just really saw like, who i am and
what i'm doing and like reflected it back like
to a point where i was like i'm gonna literally
start crying right now like this is so sweet
i love it um last one if the besties on here
listening take away just one thing from our conversation
today what do you want it to be your joy makes
a difference in this world i know that sometimes
it can feel like it doesn't and that it feels
i don't know like it's all for nothing or for
like selfish reasons but that our joy i truly
do believe from the bottom of my heart can slowly
start to change the world i i really believe
that it can create ripples of impact beyond what
we can ever imagine whatever we can see like
you know you you can never even fathom how what
corners of the world the ripple from the ripple
from the ripple of something that you do in someone's
day can create out there in the world and that
It's so it's so worth it. It's it's it's so worth
any like moments of like risk and fear and discomfort
or, you know, the discomfort of having to break
old patterns of like being yourself and like
ways that you're like, I don't want to be this
overwhelmed or miserable or whatever it is version
that I definitely am constantly still breaking
to this day. It's not always comfy, but it's
worth it. I love it. this has been really fun
i've like i've actually really enjoyed talking
to you like it's been a wild week and like i'm
glad that like we got here uh tell the people
where they can find you Yeah, you can find me
at my website, livejoyfullyyou .com. You can
find the first 10 pages to my book for free on
there. If you're like, I don't know if I want
to go the full shaboosie and buy it on Amazon.
You're like, I'm going to try it out. You can
get it for free and it'll go to your inbox. And
if you're watching, this is what the book, this
is the new cover. I had to make a new cover so
that it could go into bookstores because I didn't
realize there were certain things and regulations.
It's a first time author that now I know. It's
slightly different as you might see from your
copy. it literally just came in yesterday but
yeah you can get this on amazon um or if you're
like social media is my jam at the amy dickens
on all the socials you can find me just being
an absolute goof you're like i need to totally
revamp my social media page now to like be uplifting
i'm your girl i love it Amy's new book, 101 Ways
to Spread Joy, is out now. Grab it at the link
that I'm going to throw in the show notes. Thank
you for being here. Thank you for listening.
Follow the pod everywhere. Follow Amy. She's
been really cool. This conversation has been
a bright spot in my week. And share us with your
messiest friend from Indie to wherever you're
spreading joy. We love you, and we'll see you
next time. See you. Oh, cool. That was fun. So
fun.