But I guess I should probably introduce the show.
So we just jumped in. that's okay now i'll take
it um so i'm travis and this is bestie approved
i'm obviously here without emma because she literally
just had her baby um so that's super fun and
exciting and he's happy he's healthy he's perfect
and he's adorable um but i actually have two
new podcast friends here uh david and lisa from
outrage overload and i Would love for you guys
to introduce yourselves and tell us a little
bit about yourselves. Well, I'm Lisa. I've been
a David Beckmeyer wrangler for more years than
I'd like to count. But we started our show because
we were not having any time to talk to each other.
So we started saying, let's start talking. Make
this time. We're going to talk what's going on.
And if someone listens, fine. Great. I love that.
Yeah. So I'm David Beckmeyer. So, yeah. So the
show that Lisa and I do together is called This
Week in Outrage. The overall kind of media empire,
if you will, is called Outrage Overload. And
our sort of serious show there that's a Connors
Institute podcast is called Outrage Overload.
And that's the one that. Where I interview like
scientists and like a serious thing, it's the
opposite of what we're doing tonight. I interview
scientists and researchers and practitioners
and stuff like that. And we talk about sort of
toxic polarization and bridge building and kind
of rebuilding our divides and things like that.
That's awesome. That's awesome. And so when you
reached out to me originally, I think the way
you kind of introduced yourself was like you're
trying to find some middle ground. And I think
right now that's. really, really, really what
this country needs. So I guess what sparked the,
the, like that idea, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I
think you hear it from a lot of people. If you
go and talk, talk out there to folks that a lot
of people are, you know, just at their kind of
wits end of of of this kind of anger like there's
this idea of it was a bunch of research on it
um hidden tribes i did some research and kind
of came out with this idea of a exhausted majority
where like a lot of people are kind of over it
with the two parties fighting all the time and
and kind of not really giving us great options
you know when that comes up and so there's you
know there's this huge majority of people that
really don't like either party don't really like
the options they don't like the vitriol they
don't like the anger and the fighting all the
time but they But you don't know that they're
a majority because their voices have sort of
been silenced by these louder voices that really
give this perception that everybody is angry
all the time and isn't ready for a conversation
and all this kind of stuff. And those people
are out there. Yeah, they exist. I'm not saying
that's – it's naive to say they don't exist.
But it's a misperception to think that's how
everybody is. Once you actually meet real people,
they have a lot more. gray like this not that
sort of i guess red and blue versus black and
white it's not that clear cut that you're either
in that bucket or that bucket people are kind
of thinking about this different ways but there's
all these kind of incentives to drive us into
this thinking that the other people are terrible
and and you know and then once you get that in
your head because we kind of live in our bubbles
and all that then you just think there's no one
out there that on the other side that i that
i can talk to and they're worse it's so it's
not my fault it's their fault you know and we
just keep it it's just like a spiral downwards
as you get that kind of mindset going it gets
worse and worse so i was living in that like
everybody else right i was out there getting
twitter fights you know and then and you know
and i was caught in it i was watching the news
and it was getting me mad all the time and and
that was like that was like the trigger of like
the or the signal that like this is really isn't
right they're just trying to make me mad all
the time it's working I'm just mad all the time.
I'm sitting on the couch yelling. I can't do
anything sitting on the couch yelling, right?
So that's kind of where I'm kind of a science
nerd and a science geek. So maybe there's other
people like me that would like to kind of research
some of this and see what's out there. So I don't
want to do my own research. I'm going to go talk
to the people that do the research, right? So
that's kind of what I thought is an interesting
way to do it. And I thought a podcast was a –
was a good way to do that because you go a little
deeper right kind of more than a two minute segment
we can talk to somebody for a little bit longer
and go a little deeper and i could so my role
is kind of this guide to kind of bring the researchers
that are doing the work and then bring them on
and let them present and talk about it but make
it accessible to you know just anybody that's
kind of science curious you don't have to be
a full -on math geek and this kind of stuff you
don't have to know the ways that you do statistics
and things like that you just kind of have have
some logic and reason and be interested in the
science and so we expose this research that's
going on out there in a kind of you know funner
more interesting way because there was some academic
podcast doing some of this but they're like three
hours long and it's kind of academic to academic
and who wants to listen to that but other academics
and so i thought you know maybe make something
that would be a little more appealing to a broader
audience nice i love that it's funny that you
bring up like the twitter fights and everything
because there's i put this on our list but there's
a tweet that like resurfaces every couple of
years but it's uh talks about it's someone saying
like azalea banks is schizophrenic until i agree
with her and then and then she's like she's the
best voice ever and it's so funny that like it
resurfaced when it did because like that's exactly
how i'm feeling about like candace owens right
now like i'm just like I truly kind of want to
know if there's like any research behind that,
like behind like what what is going on with like
people like Candace Owens and Marjorie Taylor
Greene, where I'm like, I categorically disagree
with everything that comes out of their mouths.
But but now I'm like, oh, hey, maybe maybe there's
something there and maybe we can find the middle
ground there. We're we're hopeful, optimistic,
I mean, hopeless, optimistic with Marjorie. Anytime
she says the slightest little thing that we.
slightly agree with we go we're getting her we're
getting her back we she's well she's out there
well and i yeah well yeah so there is this idea
kind of in social science that have talked that
that even political scientists have talked about
this as well um you know kind of this idea of
this kind of renegade character that can um do
uh play these roles of like um how they have
authority on one side and then and so that they
can actually you know sort of point out these
these criticisms on that side so you and they
kind of are like these you know cross uh and
and and you know you'd think we'd have somebody
like you know liz cheney would be an example
of that right like theoretically you didn't have
anybody that was more sort of trusted and well
known in the conservative world and then she
sort of you know comes out against trump and
but they don't it doesn't work like the whole
thing that social scientists said would always
work sort of didn't work but there is this idea
these people that can cross cut like that that
have they have enough sort of cachet on their
own side that they kind of, you know, make a
point like that and start to, and in fact, I
mean, the stuff that Marjorie Taylor Greene is
saying, frankly, is exactly the kind of stuff
that you want somebody to say. Now, you know,
was she going to live up to it? Is she going
to live up to it? All that. But, you know, this
idea that, you know, she actually said, I'm sorry
for being part of the problem. And, you know,
I'm ready to talk across divides and all this
kind of stuff. I mean, that's what you, that's
the kind of thing these social scientists have
been talking about. take that role on and you
know so i don't know you know it'll be interesting
so again it's like to say it's like i hate him
until wow they're really saying good things now
right well and that's that's the thing with marjorie
taylor green right now where it like because
when she started coming out and saying all of
that i was like she's she's she wants to get
reelected like that's that's what is happening
right now and then she resigns and i'm like oh
my was was she being serious like was she actually
saying that she's sorry and like now she's kind
of like bowing out of the game because the fallout
is going to be that bad. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.
I don't know. Yeah, exactly. I don't know the
answer to that because it's like, it's hard to
sort of, I don't know. It's hard for me to armchair
quarterback this because I kind of would not
be, the resignation in some ways is not a surprise,
but how quickly it happened. Like you say, how
can you say that's not a surprise? It's totally
a surprise. Well, once she did this kind of transition,
you're like her path is probably, you know, her
path towards future politics is probably being
cut off, but, Like the speed at which that happened,
though, it's being cut off with other politicians.
But I think she's going to get the general public
behind her. It's possible. I mean, she could
be another populist that builds a populist groundswell
kind of, you know, although, you know, there's
a lot of now because of the stuff that, you know,
like we see with like these fake accounts. There's
a lot of stuff now. Maybe Trump wasn't as much
a groundswell from the ground up as as it sort
of looks like it is. Well, that's that's the
thing is I cannot imagine that like MAGA like
as as a concept as like as like this like idea
that it's as big as it is. There's no way that
like that many people are all in for Donald Trump.
And I have to believe that like a lot of what
we were like seeing with like the the the obsession
on Twitter probably was part of like what we're
kind of like getting confirmation of now where
it's like. like what what's her uh the daughter
ivanka like her her biggest fan account was based
out of what nigeria like come on yeah yeah so
i think that maybe that it's not really as big
as as it is i think you're right Well, and also
whether it really originated, you know, kind
of on the on the on the base or are, you know,
on the streets and, you know, in these small
towns or whether, you know, this kind of Russian
influence or who knows what state actors maybe,
you know, kind of started it and then it latched
on, you know, as a populist movement. And then,
you know, because we amplify it, the Russians
don't have enough power on their own to do that
or whoever state actor. We did it like it's our
fault. We fell for it. But I do think that I
was it. I think it was. it was your show that
i was listening to i think with uh the guy austin
that you guys had on where um what was it it's
like for every one tweet from someone else like
it sparks like what 10 000 or something is like
the ratio so like yeah they absolutely if they
didn't like the spark they absolutely absolutely
lit a few more so no i yeah like it's it's a
hundred percent like we're the accountable ones
but yeah like you know we can do that all by
ourselves i guess Right. Well, yeah, I mean,
that's kind of what I guess that's part of my,
you know, complain about the whole. Well, you
know, I mean, the problem is like we this goes
so deep. Right. Because people just are not active
civic participants. Right. Maybe we've had it
easy for too long. I don't know all the reasons
for it, but we're sort of passive. Right. We
just let this stuff flow to us and we don't really
take a role that much of a role in it. You know,
it's kind of funny that we have all these, you
know. folks like my show and, and, and other
people like a lot of political commentators and
they're talking about all these things and doing
all, and you have all these, you know, political
strategists and they're thinking about all this.
Like most people are not just putting that energy
in. Like they don't, they don't watch any news
at all or read any news at all, like zero. Like
there's so much research showing the vast majority
of people just don't any, whatever news they're
getting is coming to them sort of passively through
other feeds. Well, and it's I think the people
that are watching the news are probably watching
the most toxic sources. And by the way, on both
ends, like I like my audience knows I Emma and
I are raging like borderline socialists in a
lot of ways. But like I can look at both sides
and like I look at MSNBC and I'm like, oh, my
God, like we shut your mouth. Like, please stop
talking because like you're making us look so
bad. And then I look at Fox News and I'm like,
I can't believe people. believe anything that
comes out of their mouths so i guess like i don't
think there's a source of information that like
is actually like pure is not the word but i guess
it's like you're not getting really great information
that's not designed to be polarizing from anywhere
so yeah right i love when people say oh but i
watch fox news just to see what the other side
is saying No, you're just watching because you're
entertained by it. Well, you know, and that's,
you know, there's some, okay, that's fine. But
in some sense, you're getting... They're not,
nobody's doing that. Most people aren't doing
that. But, you know, there's a lot of people
that talk about that idea that, oh, you need
to look at news from both sides or read news
from both sides. That's kind of okay. But if
you're looking at garbage on both sides, then
you're just getting more garbage. Like you're
not actually getting more informed. You can look
at it from the perspective of a media analyst
and say, what is the media trying to say? Because,
you know, like you say, The left leaning programs
and and and articles and journals and things,
you know, kind of both do the same thing. They
don't necessarily lie, although you could say
people on the side on the right lies maybe a
little bit more. But it's mostly not straight
out lies. It's more they just kind of leave stuff
out and then change the shape of it. Right. So
that you get more angry because they're kind
of leaving some stuff out most of the time. Like
a lot of times when you go look at one of these
stories that I don't know, even even Marjorie
Taylor Greene or something said this thing or
Trump said this thing often, even a lot of times.
And then you go. look at a little more and go,
well, in context and a little bit more here,
it's kind of Trump being Trump and it wasn't
really that big of a deal. You know, some of
these things that you can go look at or some
of these other things that are being proposed
sometimes. Now, the last nine months, maybe that's
a little different, but there's a lot of these
things when you go look at them, if you're looking
at the left -leaning version of it, a lot of
times it's exaggerated and just try it because
it is trying to get you riled up and trying to
get you mad. It's mad and it's the whole, if
it bleeds, it leads and all that kind of stuff.
And so it's all those incentive structures that
they know. You know, they know how human brains
work. And we all, whether you're on the left
or right, you still have a human brain and you're
still going to, we're all susceptible to all
these tactics on us. So there's no, you know,
so we all fall for it, you know, and it's a feel
good thing, right? Like we feel morally. um superior
if we keep seeing these things that show how
bad the other side is so we like it in the moment
doesn't really help us like we don't sleep better
because of it and we don't have a better picture
of the world or anything but we feel better in
the moment because it kind of justifies that
we made the right choice look how bad those people
are i i guess i mean like i i don't love it but
like i i guess if that's if that's like If that's
how we're morally justifying it. But one of the
things I put on my list, because this kind of
like leads me into one of them. And you said
Lisa was pretty familiar with this, is a family
that like puts themselves on blast. And it's
a podcast called The Necessary Conversation.
When I put it on the list, I was like, oh, surely
they're going to like know exactly what this
is. And you said you weren't super familiar,
but Lisa is. 100 % familiar. I want to know your
thoughts on it because I swear to God, when I
first started seeing it, I was like, this is
satire. This is not, this is not real. And then
it's like, it, it, it's real life. Like these
are real people and they're like, this is their
actual belief. So at least, so I want to know
what you think about this. Well, the more the,
I, I only watch it on Instagram. So I only get
the short clips. Right. And so they, so he, Chad's
very good at cutting the, you know, the most.
sensational grab you know grab your uh your attention
clips but um yes if you watch if you watch those
clips um yes it's very disturbing um how right
the parents are how right wing they are how much
they support trump she the mom always wears a
trump hat the dad won't listen to anything i'm
kind of saying this for david's um benefit because
he doesn't really know the dad all he says to
the kids is that you're stupid both these both
these kids are highly educated people I'm not
quite sure what Chad does actually but she's
a screenwriter for movies okay so and you know
they keep saying the biggest mistake they ever
made was letting Chad go to school in California
that that ruined him he's indoctrinated 100 %
that's what they say all the time Constantly.
Yeah. And that you're stupid. You're so stupid.
You're so stupid. You're idiots. And the dad
just, the dad is the most childish thing you've
ever seen. He just is like, I'm not listening
to you. You're so dumb. And there's, there was
a big gap of time where the dad wasn't in any
clips at all on Instagram. He just decided I'm
not doing this anymore, but somehow the mom got
it back. And the mom's always wearing a MAGA
hat. For Halloween, she dressed up as Melania.
It's so uncomfortable. It's very uncomfortable.
But I do have to say, I do have to say, I have
a little bit of hope for this family. The mom
does tell the kids that she loves them. She does
say, I hate these conversations with you. And
I did get this sense that I'm trying, I kept
trying to find this clip again, where she says,
the only reason I agreed to do this show with
you is so that we can have a regular life outside
of this. So I think their agreement is, is that
they only speak politics on this show and they
don't speak it in their regular life. And that
is the agreement actually. Yeah. And I say that
is Bravo for them to be able to do that. And
then, but she does say she loves them. Although
she does say we never made any mistakes as parents.
David, have you made any mistakes as a parent?
Of course not. Yes. I mean, we, our kid was really
little. We said, we're going to make a ton of
mistakes. We don't know how to raise you. You're
the first you we've ever raised. But yeah, but
the dad to me is just. so childish and just he's
just there's no there's not going to be anything
getting through to him and I hate right I'm I'm
sorry Travis if I'm taking over this but I wanted
to get a couple other things out I was I was
boohooing in tears when she the mom was um very
upset about the Epstein papers and Chad was so
supportive of like yeah mom that's really hard
and just let her Cause she wants them released.
She's convinced that Trump's nowhere near, he's
not in them anywhere. And she wants them released
and they weren't getting released. And she was
really upset about it. And he let her just kind
of vent and not say, not digging on her, which
I thought was quite lovely. And, but she's can,
and she wants, cause she wants all the pedophiles
arrested as we all do. We all, I don't know anybody
want, all the pedophiles arrested well that was
cash patel's thing for 10 years okay well that
was that was cash patel's thing that's pam bondy's
thing that's donald trump's thing and like it's
like i mean they campaigned on releasing the
files right and then it's like now that we're
here it's like oh oh no no no no we're not gonna
and i'm glad that like that got through uh congress
and i'm glad that it was such a And astonishingly,
like we're all in on this number. Like what was
it for 27 to one in the House? And then it was
a unanimous vote in the Senate. So I'm thrilled
about that. But yeah, the mom was a was a school
teacher for her entire life. And like that, like
she cares about these kids. And like it's really
sad to see like this is real life and like for
that to become politicized. And for her to. I
think there's like a there's a. an unwinding
process like when you're when you're trying to
like separate like you're like the political
side of it from like the real life implications
of what happened to these literal children and
you realize like I voted for this guy. People
say he's in the files. I don't want to believe
that. And I can understand like, you know, not
wanting to believe that. But this whole idea,
this and this notion of like people running around
saying it's the left and the right. It absolutely
is. And this whole thing of like people bringing
up like, well, what if your favorite celebrity
is on the Epstein list? And I'm like, well, first
of all, I can tell you Bethany Frankel is not
going to show up on that list. But if she is
not, she's not she's not my hero anymore. Like,
I don't know what to tell you. Right. Right.
There's a lot of people in our lives we've had
to go. Yeah, we're not in that movie ever again.
Right. Yeah. You know, my my my bill, my Bill
Gates flags off my truck. And I think that's
the other thing, too, is like, I think MAGA put
a lot of eggs in the basket. And I'll come back
to the because I think this all relates. But
like. with with the necessary conversation podcast
but like i think maga put a lot of eggs in the
basket of i'm all in on donald trump like he's
my guy he is my guy and like this like putting
him on the pedestal i think was the biggest mistake
because it's like like we we've seen like he
could keep moving the goal post of like what's
acceptable and i think now that we're we're literally
talking about like is he in the epstein files
is this like is this going to be the breaking
point i think this is where you're starting to
see a lot of people really reckon with the fact
of like oh i went all in on a guy that i probably
wasn't entirely sure about and now what do we
do with that i think that's a very that it's
probably a very hard process psychologically
to go through of like separating yourself from
that because like in a lot of ways and i can
understand like the charisma and like this whole
like what everything he campaigned on i can understand
him being a heroic figure for a lot of people
like not i mean not for me but like i can understand
how he got there and i think that has to be very
very hard like i so i i i sympathize with those
with those people because it's like you're losing
your hero but when you see it like oh god sorry
no no go ahead I was going to say, when you see
it with like this family on YouTube, really arguing
it out where you've got the mom who's like, no,
no, no, there's no way. And I'm like, for her
sake, I hope she's right. And then you've got
the dad who is just like Donald Trump's on those
files. I love Donald Trump. He can do no wrong.
And like, it's it's just it's it's it's such
a bizarre fight to see happening in real life
because I'm just like. Like, how did we get here?
How did we get here? And to see her being really
upset, too, about the the mass deportations.
She was not happy about that. And I think that's
also when her husband backed out because he just
was going to stick with, I'm going to back up.
They broke the law, so blah, blah, blah. They
deserve everything they get kind of thing. They're
here illegally, you know, and then, you know,
they're trying to explain to them, well, there's
citizens that are being wound up. And also it's
a misdemeanor, by the way, to violate the border
crossing. Right. But anyway, so, I mean, I think
that they have given, you know, she was, she
just does not want the. mass deportations are
ice she's not happy with ice's job but she's
still very much a trump supporter um and um i
forgot what's going with this well you know i
was gonna say like this is you know if we get
it i don't want to get us bogged down by the
sort of science -y you know political science
other kind of stuff but you know i mean this
is kind of a what has happened over the last
you know 30 or 50 years kind of depending on
how you measure but especially the last you know
25 or 30 years that this wasn't always like this
right we didn't our our political identity wasn't
this salient in our lives like it is now like
it's first thing we kind of want to know about
somebody now and this kind of stuff and yeah
you know Should I listen? That wasn't like that
30 or 40 years ago. And so this has been, you
know, a slow thing to kind of build that up.
And, you know, and and I think if you do like
the Robert Putnam and the sort of bowling alone
stuff and all that, somehow political ideology
is sort of taken over for this kind of tribal
nature that humans want. And it is very hard
now. So and so if you think about like the dad
or even the mom, even if she is to a point where
I don't like this or I don't like that. Where
does she go? Like the left isn't going to sort
of she can't see the left as an option. No, she's
still 100 percent. Yeah. So and they wouldn't
take her anyway. Right. They know you're a bad
person because you supported him before and this
kind of stuff. So, you know, it's tough because
there's where are you going to go? Like there's
no you and, you know, it's it's almost like the
box into a corner thing. Like I don't have a
good option. So I'm going to just double I have
to double down, I guess, you know. And so, yeah,
so is that like we just don't have. you know
a good pathway for people to like you know what
like your guy's not great my guy's not great
either let me tell you right right we have problems
too yeah well and that was that's really the
the most interesting thing like when you when
you i guess not the most interesting thing but
it's it's it's such a big deal to people i think
because like you're And you say it really happened
over the last like 30, 40 years. And I think
it's because like the last 30, 40 years have
been like literally fighting over like, well,
this party wants you to have rights. This party
doesn't. I know that's not what every political
thing is about, but you've got like, I mean,
something that's very real for me is marriage
equality. And you have people on the fringes
of the far right. I know it's not most of the
right. It's overwhelmingly like. accepted and
like not even thought about in in most of the
united states but um you've got the fringes of
the far right like being lit on fire by the heritage
foundation that are like we need to repeal gay
marriage like we need to pull that back and i'm
like oh okay it's not going to stop with me so
like i think it's so important to people because
it's like oh you voted for this guy you don't
want me to have rights and i like i think I think
I can see how people get there, but like I'm
just like I know that my family is overwhelmingly
conservative and right leaning in a lot of a
lot of areas. I know they're not voting for the
Republican Party because they don't want me to
have rights. And I think that's a that's a thing
people have a hard time separating. Yeah. And,
you know, that's that's such an interesting that's
actually a very interesting topic, too, because.
It's one of those ones where – I mean it's one
of the things that Trump was able to really appeal
to, particularly in the beginning there, 2015
timeframe, 2016 timeframe. This idea that culture
had sort of pushed – like they were losing the
culture wars kind of thing, right? And it was
kind of funny that people could simultaneously
kind of say, I don't really have a problem with
gay marriage, but – Damn it. Why did we let that
– why did gay marriage happen? Like that's –
but I actually don't have – like I personally
don't have a problem. I even know like my family.
I have members of my family that are like – but
I still have like this weird kind of – I'm opposed
to this idea because it's like attacking me at
this kind of cultural – it's like a place I lost
the war. And it's like a place where Trump was
so good with that language of we're going to
win. And they understood what that meant. I think
most of the rest of us didn't even know what
that meant. Right. But it's it's stuck with that
group because they're like, yeah, we've been
losing for so long and losing for 20 years. You
know, we lost this. We lost that. We lost that.
And, you know, and I think that's a place where
there's so much room to kind of let's come to
the table because you actually aren't concerned
about this. So why is it bothering you so much?
And that's a conversation like we've never been
good at because people immediately start, oh,
you don't like it. So therefore you're a bad
person and blah, blah, blah. And we don't find
this way to kind of. overcome that like thing
that's like pretty obvious like you actually
aren't concerned about it but you are concerned
about it at the same time and it just talks about
this whole identity and this winning and losing
you know kind of black and white winners and
losers kind of mindset that's happened where
my side needs to have these three wins and every
every loss that every win that your side gets
is a loss to me whereas like that's an example
of who loses in that right there's no winners
losers there right well that's something that
i've like i will spiral over because it's like
and it comes into this whole conversation about
diversity equity and inclusion and how like the
like donald trump and like like all these guys
like anytime they hate something it's they immediately
label it woke and it's like it's dei and i hate
it and like whatever and then you see like you
you really start to see people saying well like
like we have diversity equity and inclusion initiatives
in in so many places in the country and that
must be why i'm i'm disadvantaged and i'm like
i don't i don't think you get what diversity
equity inclusion means if you think you're disadvantaged
in any way but that's that's not a fight i'm
gonna win any anytime soon with people but um
but like you you really you really see it in
like where you know target was the big one where
they like they said okay we're gonna roll back
our diversity equity and inclusion policies And
like their their entire business model is just
like on fire around them. And they're like when
I put it in these notes, but like they they they
laid off like eighteen hundred people and then
they blame it on their processes being too complex.
And I'm like, you just have to take the loss
and admit when you messed up like that's like
Diva, you have got to figure this out because
like. I cannot imagine that there's not someone
sitting in a boardroom in Minneapolis where Target
is based saying, hey, do you guys remember when
we were for the girls and the gays and the days
and we were doing really, really great? And people
just like showed up to spend hundreds of dollars
at a time. And then we like made this fun little
announcement. And then like they stopped like
like the fact that they're not publicly making
this connection is is so insane to me. Yeah,
they and you know, they used to have a really
great on. on a pride month, they had some great
products that came out. I'm like, you'd always,
I always get a little excited. Oh, they're going
to come out with the, with all their pride stuff.
It's really cool. And then when they said, Oh,
we're not doing this anymore. It's like, yeah,
I don't think I've been into target since then.
I don't think we have. I don't think I truly
think that that was like, and then you're like,
DEI is a, is a sore spot with me because like
you said, Travis, nobody really knows what that
is. They just think that it's bad for white Christians.
And it should be bad for white Christians, by
the way. But, you know, it's like, you don't
even know what that is. Do you know who made,
you know, who benefited the most for DEI? And
they're like, oh, no, no, it's just all those
Asians. And I'm like. What Asians? Ew. What are
you talking about? What are you talking about?
No, white women are the ones who benefited the
most. But then again, MAGA wants women back in
the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Well, is
MAGA on that path? Yeah, the trad wife. Oh, the
trad wife thing, yeah. But I thought those were
a little bit separate. I don't know if that's
a one -to -one match. Well, like we've discovered
that trad wife is more of a porn addiction. Well,
it's got its aspect to it. Well, I know I was
surprised I did. I did an episode. I did. I basically
ended up doing these episodes that ended up being
a series. Right. I initially started with kind
of the trad wife, homeschooling, homesteading
stuff. And that was kind of episode one in this
series. And then I did, you know, the young men
leaning to the right versus young women. Yeah.
Right. And sort of the Gen Z particularly. And
so we did an episode about that. And then I did
that as a kind of follow up. The third one is
kind of the Manosphere one, because Manosphere
kind of kept coming up in both those other two.
So it's like, why better? try to figure out what
the manosphere even means so then i did that
manosphere episode so yeah so i did this episode
on trad wife and that's where i i learned it
and like once i talked to one of these experts
about it and they were talking about you know
that that there's this kind of um uh kind of
a porn side to it that like there's this whole
fetishy trad wife thing going on i'm like oh
now that you mentioned it that makes perfect
sense of course there is but it didn't occur
to me until right no travis is not gonna sleep
now for a week but it's like you know We talk
all the time, like if there's a thing, there's
a porn version of it. Of course there is. But
just even as, you know, all those women, you
know, cooking and sitting with all the kids screaming
and all that. They're flowing dresses and all.
100 % turn on fetish. Yeah, there's got to be
a fetish for that, for sure. Yeah. Show me your
feet a little more. I mean, I'm not here to kink
shame anyone, but like. No, of course not. Of
course not. But when you're trying to frame it
as a. You know, this is the way life should be.
Women should not have a vote. A vote should be
for the household and the man will do that. And
women should be home having kids, as many kids
as possible. Yeah, it's pretty gross. And for
women that want to do that, great. Like that's
your choice. No, that's fine. Yeah, no, 100%.
But like making all women do that is where we're
talking about, like drawing the line. Yeah, but
are you okay? I would like to talk to a woman
who's okay giving up her vote. And letting her
husband vote. I don't know. You see him. I mean,
you see him online talking about it. Again, I
don't know how real that is. Well, I'm also saying
if you're doing it online, yeah, you're not a
trad wife. This is your need to be seen. This
is your introduction to. It's an influencer.
You know what? There's going to be the real trad
wives of, I don't know, whatever. I'm surprised
it hasn't happened yet. Andy Cohen's got that
lined up already. Hasn't that already kind of
happened? Isn't there a show like that? Is there
not something like that already? I'm amazed that
hasn't happened. PBS did the 1800 house. Yeah,
they also did. What was it? Sister wives for
that. Kind of. But like at the same time, like
that devolved pretty quickly into seeing like
what the cracks in those marriages are. But like
I. So here's here's the thing about the trad
wife thing, though. Like if you truly believe
like as a woman, your experience is. But you
want to like be a mother and you want that to
be like your sole identity. I want you to do
that. Like that's that's the cool thing about
all this is like you have the choice to do all
of it. And I think when you get into this area
where like the Heritage Foundation is like, no,
no, no, this is what must be promoted. This is
what this is like what we need to push. And this
is the agenda. And you literally write it down
in Project 2025. I'm like, oh. You don't you
don't want women to actually have rights. You
you like that. That's that's always been such
a bizarre thing to me. Like in in in most areas
of life, I'm like, I don't care how anyone lives
their life. It's truly none of my business. As
long as everyone involved is like is on board
and like they're doing what they want to do.
I don't care how I don't care what your family
looks like. I don't get it. That's all I care.
Yeah. Like whatever. Everybody's in agreement.
Everybody's safe. Everybody's. lives you know
that's fine you yeah you should do you you do
you boo yeah do like and that's and that's the
thing where you've got the project or i'm sorry
uh the heritage foundation and then turning point
usa was the other big one where they're literally
writing down on paper like this is the way we
want people to live their lives that is strange
to me i don't get that Yeah. What I will say,
like, so I will say that, like, the DEI thing
is another example of this idea of that. I think
the left often kind of forgets that, you know,
we think about political power and sometimes
the right sometimes seems like they have more
political power here and there. But from the
right's perspective, like they feel like they
are excluded, that the left has all this cultural
power, right? Like the left is kind of to them
taking over academia, taking over Hollywood,
is taking over, you know. education from their
perspective. And, and so, you know, and that's,
and so they feel like they have to go and assert
themselves in those, in those realms, you know,
and I think DEI is kind of part of that. They,
they kind of attached, you know, again, like
Lisa says, DEI means whatever somebody wants
it to mean, I guess. But I think that's part
of where it comes from. Like, so I had to call
this person they. You know, it's like, screw
that. I'm not going to do that. You know, and
that that whole conversation where people are
screaming about like, I don't want to do that,
then don't. You don't have to. But like you,
you cannot force an entire population of people
to get on board with like your notion of what
the perfect family is or what the perfect religion
is like. That is so strange to me, like how we
started versus how we got here. I'm like, Diva,
like, do you not do you? You're losing the plot.
Well, sometimes you've mentioned rights like
I've heard the term rights a few times. And sometimes
when we use those kind of words, just be careful,
because like if you say, you know, for like a
person on the right, they think they're defending
the Constitution to support Donald Trump and
do a lot of other stuff. Right. They think they're
the ones defending rights. And it's the left
trying to take the rights away. So a lot of this
is how people interpret this language and words.
You know, I had a conversation with somebody
on the right that wrote a whole piece about.
you know, charisma and how the leftist falls
for charisma all the time. And and, you know,
conservatives never fall for charisma. And I'm
like, and I'm like, isn't Donald Trump like a
counter argument to this, like a counter point
of this? And he's like, well, no, because Trump's
not charismatic because he's kind of. crude or
whatever. It's like, OK, so we're just defining
words the way we want to define them now. Right.
And so and I think it's but it's a good point.
It's like that's what we all do. Like this guy
did it. But I mean, I'm sure I could have taken
one of his paragraphs, kind of neutralize it.
So you didn't know if he was talking about Trump
or somebody else or a left person or right person.
And, you know, you would hand to a bunch of people,
a bunch of people on the left and say, well,
this is 100 percent about Trump. Right. And probably
some people on the right would have said, well,
that's 100 percent about Mamdani or Obama. So
it's just like it's just how we look at things.
We see what we want to see in this stuff. And
so it can be a real problem when we just don't
interpret the words the same way. I have a problem
giving Trump credit for coming up with all this.
He's someone's pawn. He didn't come up with this.
Yeah, it's starting to look that way, isn't it?
Yeah. But yeah, I think he does have an intuition
for it, though. He can he can. He did, I think,
see like a missing piece and none of the, you
know, he simplified things and he figured, you
know, he's simple, I guess. Right. I mean, he
sees it simple. And, you know, most of us, most
people see it simple. So he was able to say stuff
in simple ways that say the thing he wanted to
hear. And I think, you know, all these strategists
are just overthinking it. Oh, 100 percent. Well,
and I think. The best way I've heard it described
is Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall
in line. Like Republicans are going to show up
and vote for Republicans no matter what. Democrats
have a tendency to fall in love with their candidate.
Like, I mean, you could not tell me like that
Barack Obama and granted there there's room for
criticism there. But you couldn't tell me that
Barack Obama was not the greatest president that
ever walked the face of the earth. And I was
just mad that like I wasn't I wasn't 18 when
it was. the time for his the first vote jesus
he's that young if it makes you feel better i'm
lying about my age like now so like we moved
a little bit away from there it's fine like i
support everyone's right to lie about their age
but um i think donald trump really found his
niche in I can I can make the right fall in love
to like. So I think what we're seeing is probably
just the pendulum swinging so far because it's
like, oh, well, we've been falling in love with
people. So for so long, but like the right didn't
really have a guy to fall in love with. Like
I looking back, like I can't think of any figure
on the right that is truly just like. as charismatic
as donald trump is it's like as messy as he is
it's like and like this is the thing is like
if he would if he wouldn't have gotten involved
in politics and i've said it a million times
i would love the guy like i and if i think back
to like 2014 being in new york if i would have
ran into him at a party like i know exactly how
it would have gone he would have been holding
court with like a bunch of people like he would
have been having a time because he's messy and
he's funny and he's kind of a disaster but it's
like a it's a car crash you can't look away from
and I just wish he would have like harnessed
that in a different way. That's just all there
is to it. I disagree a little bit. I think he's
the we just because he wasn't in politics. He
was he has been misogynistic forever and we've
just overlooked it because he was a nobody. But
I if he was in a party and told me that, yeah,
I'm going to go check on the girls in the dressing
room at the pageant. I would be fucking qualified.
OK, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. You know,
and I think that those comments were kind of
just whatever. That's just Trump being Trump.
He's a nobody. Forget that. You know, he's just
going to sell some steaks and water and airlines.
It's all going to go underground anyway. But
I think that if we knew if we knew then what
we know now. Oof. I think he would be, I'm using
quotes, canceled. Canceled. Yeah. I mean, he
was canceled by the Village Voice like 25 years
ago. Yeah. I think I was looking at it from the
perspective of like, he's, I mean, he's like
a drag queen. Like, I guess I didn't think about
like the things that we know he said at the time.
Now we're talking about something totally different.
I would love to see him. It would be funny. I
would pay good money to see that. But, you know,
I think of Trump differently, right? Because
I see him, I think he's sort of so broken as
a human. I kind of see him as almost like an
alien that's going through life kind of pretending
to, like, this is almost like chat GPT. Like,
this is what the way a human would talk, right?
Yeah, he's... I mean, kind of. Like, I mean,
who even says, what a weird turn of phrase, grab
him by the pussy. Have you ever met anyone in
your entire life, even somebody crude that would
use that weird turn of phrase? I mean, he just
feels like he's a he's a machine is trying to
sometimes pretend to be human. I mean, and all
this stuff. I see that that 10 year old, I'll
be dating her in 10 years or see that, you know,
my daughter, my my daughter is so freaking gorgeous.
And I would love to date that. I mean, just the
stuff that we've heard. And then he has these
weird like little moments of like self self awareness
where it's like, I guess I'm probably not going
to heaven. Right. And then he turns around and
he's like, quiet, picky. Yeah. No, but what's
his obsession with heaven right now? What does
he think? I don't know. What does he think heaven
is? I know. I don't know. I mean, I feel like
heaven is something like Stefan from Saturday
Night Live. Go see heaven. It's got wombats in
the corner, dancing wombats. It's got everything.
Are you old enough to know who Stefan is from
Saturday Night Live? You've got to look that
up. Travis. Get some clips of Stefan. You may
not even know this much about Saturday Night
Live, but Saturday Night Live has the news segment.
yes and stefan would be one of the people that
would come on and he would give um you know uh
hot tips for what to do in new york city what's
the hot club in new york oh oh oh yes yes yes
okay like i did i never knew his name i know
exactly who you're talking about yeah yeah and
so and and the one of the things about that that
skit is that he didn't know what he was going
to say like the writers give him cards in the
moment He didn't know. So that's why he was cracking
up so much all the time because he would read
these cards and then say, and then they started
making that, that, um, they started scripting
that like mad libs. So they would just sit in
the writings. They wrote it all out, but then
they'd say, okay, we just fill in a blank. Yeah.
Phil, we're going to do a Stefan fill in. I need
a adjective. I need a animal. I need a noun.
I need, yeah. You know, so. So even the writers,
they wrote the basic script, but then they would
mad lib it in and then that's what they would
give him. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. So that's
what I think. So that's what I think that Trump
doesn't even know what heaven is. What is, I
mean, what does he, what does he really think
he's, he's not a deep thinker. I mean, he's not
a deep thinker. And don't forget, John Paul said
that don't be an asshole. Everybody gets to go
to heaven. Just don't be an asshole. Didn't he
retract that? No, he did not. I don't know. I
don't know. But the Catholics lost their fucking
mind. They were not happy about that. No, they
were not happy. You've got to die for more if
you want to go to heaven. Yeah. No. Yeah. I guess
I don't know. The long and short of it is, like,
Donald Trump is a case that I don't think we're
ever going to solve as a nation. And, like, at
most, we have three more years with him. So,
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some ways, I would like to see in 100 years how
history is going to reflect on this. Yeah, I
know, because you can imagine. I don't want to
live for 100 years. Yeah. Well, you can imagine
like some character 100 years ago. somebody that
was living through it would look at how historians
talk about now they're like oh man they got that
wrong that's true but it's so anyways go ahead
i like i want to know like i think i have thought
about that a lot like how are we going to talk
about like covid and black lives matter and like
things that have real impacts and it's like are
we going to whitewash it or are we gonna like
And truly learn from our mistakes of doing that
with like the civil rights movement and and everywhere
we went wrong and say, no, we have to be honest
about that, because I think this is something
like as this is on a societal level. I think
we have to start being very honest about like,
yeah, it's OK to admit we messed up like this
American exceptionalism thing is not getting
us very far. Yeah, and I think that right. And
I think the Democrats still haven't really learned.
figured out what what the takeaways are from
this whole last 10 years well we tried to start
doing that I mean Columbus Day was pre -Trump
we were getting away from Columbus Day yeah for
obvious reasons and even like nobody likes even
even Spain like and Portugal don't like Columbus
nobody likes Columbus right and you know but
it's also so we were getting away from that and
getting more of the real story and then here
here he comes and now you know columbus day is
back with a vengeance and i think that's such
a bizarre hill to die on like what like you you
truly can't handle it being called indigenous
people's day like you you cannot handle that
idea and so you like what attachment do you have
to christopher columbus like i don't understand
The attachment he has is that or that that side
has is that the other side says, don't be stupid.
Well, I guess it's part of that whole culture
war nostalgia thing. Yes. They feel like it's
another place. They're losing the culture war
and losing. Can I just tell you, I've never felt
nostalgic about Christopher Columbus or Columbus
Day. Like I've never felt a sense of pride around
it. Like that is a bizarre thing to me. I'd rather
call it Tony Soprano Day because then I would
be way behind it. Yeah. Right. I mean, the whole
story is like who even decided to make that a
story? It's such a wacky story anyway. Who came
up with that mythology? I I love how creative
we get with history. Like, I think it's just
such a fun thing that we do. Also, speaking of
history, because this kind of is a perfect segue
into like one of my last topics. Have you guys
seen the. the timeline on the white house website
of like the history of like the building of the
white house you know i hadn't seen it until you
brought it to my attention but yeah i did i did
look it over what are your thoughts this is so
bizarre like to me like what are they really
doing like you know I mean, I mean, for one thing,
I mean, Trump does like this idea that if I put
my crimes out there in public, like they're OK.
Right. If I just say I'm going to do it, it must
be fine. Like everyone says, well, it must not
be illegal because he put it on a website. But
so there's that side of it, maybe. But what is
this whole thing anyway? Like, is it what is
it? I mean, I guess it's it could be as, you
know, Occam's razor kind of it's just the grift.
Right. It's like a new way to grift. I don't
know. It could be legacy like he wants to do
some kind of legacy there. I feel like the whole
thing is not about a ballroom at all. I feel
like there's something else going on here that
none of us know about. So, Lisa, did you see
the link that I put in the notes? I'm sorry.
I did not, Travis. Oh, that's OK. That's OK.
So I'll just just for a little breakdown. So
on the White House website, they have like a
timeline of like the history of events. And it
starts out pretty normal with like. we built
the white house and then we had the the fire
in the war of 1812 and then we rebuilt the white
house and then like we added the east wing and
we added the west wing and then it gets to um
the uh obama administration and they're like
that jumps way to the way forward well they i
mean they to be fair they do have like nine pages
of like history and then it's like like after
the uh the rose garden being installed it jumps
to like the obama administration it's like barack
obama invited the muslim brotherhood into the
white house and that was just really really bad
they're terrorists like it literally says this
on the website and then it goes into uh oh i'm
sorry the one right before that is bill clinton
got had his affair in the local office yeah and
then it jumps to uh a picture of hunter biden
falling asleep in the bathtub it's that picture
that's been all over the internet and they and
it's like hey we found cocaine in the white house
this must have been joe biden's son like and
then it's uh well you know i want to say they
do this jump too right i mean they go from and
they kind of act like well this just is a normal
flow right but if you look at like they talk
about the total quote -unquote reconstruction
that was done with with truman right so that
was 1948 and they jumped in 1970 right they don't
really notice that oh that was like that was
a long time it's a pretty big gap but also like
they don't talk at all about how that truman
reconstruction was like the place was running
down and also there was a huge like they put
truman as like truman did it but really that
was a whole effort by the whole like historical
i don't know all the names technical names of
all this these groups that do this kind of architecture
you know this heritage architecture kind of stuff
of dc i mean truman was just happened to be the
president at that time it wasn't like his project
this was like you know a huge i mean he you know
these other groups and these these outside you
know experts that that kind of worry about this
history beyond one president worked on that project
and then they kind of jumped like you say these
other things that are like what is the bill clinton
you know monica lewinsky thing have to do with
rebuilding the white house that's super weird
well that to me is like why are you so obsessed
with owning the left like why is like why is
that your entire personality and why is that
what you're going to put on the website and then
it's like okay so you have i think one of the
last items on the timeline was the trans visibility
day of awareness where the trans woman took her
top off on the white house lawn and i'm like
did you include the uh shaman on january 6th
that was running around without a shirt on because
you really wanted to obsess over someone not
wearing a shirt like i don't understand why you're
not including your side in that like it's just
it's one of those things where i'm like politics
is messy and i get that but it's like you were
you were literally taking like one of the most
iconic legacies of like a building right and
being so gross about it like i don't like this
idea that like someone in the trump administration
was like yeah let's put this on the website like
i i don't i i don't get it Right. I mean, they
could have they could have clearly had a whole
bunch of if they wanted to, like they switch
from this idea of. of literally kind of construction
around the White House to this, like, you know,
scandals around the White House. Like if they
were going to switch to historical events that
were significant, there's all kinds of things,
you know, different signings, you know, there
was different treaties signed and stuff like
that you could put in this list, right? But yeah,
then they picked this weird thing with Bill Clinton,
the Muslim Brotherhood. And then I love the photo
of Hunter Biden in the bathtub with a cigarette
hanging out of his mouth. My God. you know but
it's this shit that they pick is ridiculous sorry
i don't know if you're an explicit website you
want to bleep that yeah no it's every episode's
explicit i've called i've called christy now
i'm the c word on my podcast before it's fine
You know, and then the other thing about it is
once you get if it's supposedly a timeline, the
other thing is like, you know, this stuff starts
to accelerate a lot. Right. You get all these
things. Like I said, one bullet is 20, 30 years
apart. And then you get to this end and it's
like 2025, 2025, 2025, 2025, 2025, 2025. It's
like all this stuff that he's done in the last
nine months or whatever. Right. It's like he
just compresses it all and talk about how wonderful
it is. Yeah. I mean, they're so wonderful and
they're so good at everything. They're just really,
really good. Who is he hiring to do this website?
I assume Caroline Levitt's brother or something.
I don't know. Caroline Levitt's kid? I don't,
yeah. Maybe. I mean, like you say, this could
be an Onion website. Like once you start switching
into the Bill Clinton scandal and everything
that goes after that, this could 100 % be the
Onion who put this website together. And they're
so unserious. Like, that's that's the thing is
like, I'm just like, Diva, you're the president
of the United States. Like, this is a dot gov
website. And to Lisa's point, he just doesn't
get that. Like, he doesn't get the significance
of that. He doesn't get that he is the president
of all of the United States. He thinks he's president
just of the MAGAs. Right. Well, he's president
of whoever likes him. Yeah. That week. Yeah.
Maybe. And if you say something he doesn't like,
he's going to call you piggy or dumb or stupid
or fake news. Or pull your broadcasting license
or sue you. Like, whatever. Yeah, it is crazy.
This is the world we're in now. And like you
guys were talking about the history. What will
history look back at this? And you're like, I'm
just hoping we look back at this and go, what
were we thinking? Like, how did we let this happen?
I hope so. You think about the dumbness like
this is literally, you know, idiocracy, right?
I mean, this is like idiocracy didn't even go
this far. But I've wrote all of my topics. I
feel like I've like I have like one last thing,
but I want like what's on your guys's list. I
want to hear I want to hear all of your stuff.
What do you have, Lise? All of our stuff? No,
just say anything. Oh, by the way, me and my
brother have decided to see where it's not bad
and we used it all weekend. Yes. Be European,
right? Be English. Just say it all the time.
Right. Or I think the Aussies do it too. I don't
think they're bothered by that word. No, they're
not bothered at all. Gay guys have like taken
back that word, too. Like I like we scream it
constantly. So, yeah, I know. And I just feel
so liberated where I can call my brother the
C word. Yeah. Proud of you. Not in not in not
say, hey, you C word. But in a fun way. In a
fun way. Oh, my God. I love you. Yeah. Let's
see. What do I have on my list? You know, you
know, we we're in California. We have Newsom.
So I always like to talk about one of Newsom's
trolls against Trump, which are just magical.
Yes. Even though we don't. Yes. We're not we're
not lovers of Trump, but I do love that. I do
love that. He's just going for it. And I'm going
to just give it to. Give it, give it back to
them every single time. What was the one that
you need to, but lately it was like, you need
to dress appropriately on the airplane. Oh, what
do you mean? I have to dress appropriately on
the airplane. That was also on my list. Yeah.
Yeah. And then. International flights, man. I'm
putting my sweats on. I'm ready for a nap. What
are you talking about? Your son was horrified
when we did an overnight flight and you and I
showed up in pajamas and he's like, what are
you doing? You're going to wish you had your
pajamas on too. And then he shows a picture of
freaking RFK Jr., the head of our health, walking
around an airplane barefoot. That's fucking disgusting.
That's gross. rfk jr is a gem man i gotta tell
you the gift that keeps on giving i that's another
one of those things where i look at it i'm like
is this satire like this this can't be real like
oh you think beef tallow is is an actual like
okay that's you're all in on beef tallow you
are you think vaccines cause autism like okay
you are you're not a real person like i'm convinced
of that Well, wait, you're in Kentucky now and
they've had you've had three children die from
of measles. No, not measles. Whooping cough,
right? Oh, because they're not vaccinated. Three
unvaccinated kids died in Kentucky. That's amazing.
Isn't Kentucky also where the arc is? Yeah. Oh,
yeah. The Noah's Ark experience. That's a that's
a real highlight, too. Have you done that? Have
you done that yet? So I'm actually in Indianapolis.
Most of my family is from Kentucky, though. Like
I still have a ton of family that lives in Kentucky.
No, I've I've I've never partaken in the Noah's
Ark experience. And he's a cool town. Yeah, of
course. And then Megan Kelly is also the other
gift. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Talking about
like anything Trump does is OK. Now we're like.
kind of coming up these weird definitions of
where you draw the line yeah with that's the
thing is like megan kelly had had the real opportunity
to have the world eating out of the palm of her
hand after the whole fox news fallout situation
and lord have mercy you want to talk about someone
who squandered an opportunity like that is that's
rough like and it gets more disgusting when she
has a 15 year old daughter yeah it it does and
that's do do i i think part of the problem is
she she is one of these people she's similar
to tucker carlson in this way where i don't think
she thinks before something comes out of her
mouth and like she's just talking and talking
and talking and talking because like you i think
i when i watched the clip i was like oh this
is where she realized what came out of her mouth
and she started writing it back yeah but i'm
like The fact that it came out of your mouth
lets me know like, oh, you're you're willing
to move the goalposts for Trump in this scenario.
I'm everything that comes out of your mouth is
completely irrelevant to me now. I'm like, it's
not a conversation I'm willing to participate
in. I can't like that's disgusting. And why is
she all in on Trump? He he threw her out a long
time ago. He tossed her to the curb. Yeah, I
don't. That's. That loyalist thing is something
that's never made sense to me. Like, I don't
I don't get it. Yeah, that's the one that's always
been a challenge for me, too, particularly these
powerful people that like they know they're going
to get, you know, I mean, I guess it's the power
that is driving it. Like they just want to stay
in power somehow and stay in the power circle
or whatever. But like historically, like he screws
everyone over eventually. And, you know, it's
the classic the leopard's not going to eat my
face off. I can't believe the leopards ate her
face like and that's like I and I guess like
I to what end and I'm like if if you really take
someone who like who has done this kind of well
it's Kamala Harris where she's been very honest
about her relationship with Joe Biden and she
still likes the guy and that's all well and good
like and she's gone on the book tour and talked
about like yeah like we we fought a lot and At
the end of the day, like I still respect him,
but like our relationship is complicated. And
I think like you just have to be honest about
it. Like these people that are so delusional
about this notion of Donald Trump can do no wrong.
I simply will never understand that because I'm
like, we've we've watched him turn on. One of
his most vehement supporters in Marjorie Taylor
Greene. And, you know, what's interesting is
like the left hated Marjorie Taylor Greene for
what she was in Congress for five years and.
Hated her the entire time. MAGA hates her for
two weeks and she's had to hire security. Yeah,
well, now she knows what it's like. She has a
little taste of what she was dishing out. Yeah,
well, it's in as part of that whole. You know,
the left is the violent side, right? I mean,
we talk ourselves into these ideas. The lunatic
left. Yeah. The radical left. Yeah. Yeah. And
we have to kind of get out of using this kind
of language. No, of course we do. Of course we
do. It doesn't represent anyone real. Say it
again. I was just saying it doesn't represent
anyone real. Like it's all just a caricature
of this idea that doesn't really exist. No, it
doesn't. But what I do want to because Lisa mentioned
it, Sean Duffy telling people to dress up for
flights like when he came out and said what he
said about travel, I thought that was the most
wild concept anyone has. Like, you were really
brave in this economy right now to start talking
about what people need to do on flights. Like,
I have to tell you, I will. I will show up to
the airport in joggers and like a Lululemon t
-shirt and like that is the best you're getting
out of me. I'm not interested in like interacting
with anyone. I'm not interested in this whole
notion that like we have to be kind to like other
travelers. Like, no, you're insane. Well, I'm
not there. I'm not there to, you know, make new
friends. I need to get to my just my destination.
But I want you to be clean. Just be clean. I
don't want you to show up in the in the joggers
and the lemon shirt you've been working out in
all weekend. And no one wants to hear your music
either. So you can keep that in your headphones.
No, I'm going to be so for real with you. I don't
care. Like, I'm going to. Well, no, like, that's
for me, though. Like, I'm just like, I have I
have my headphones in. I'm not paying attention
to anything that's going on around me. And like
these. These issues that people run into at the
airport, I'm like, these are self -inflicted
issues. Like if people can mind their own business
for the most part, like we're probably going
to be cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean,
everybody's got their quirks. You do your thing.
I'll do my thing. We're all good. Yes. I just
want to be showered when you come. I don't want
to sit next to you if you haven't showered in
a while. Showering is helpful. Like I cannot
imagine unless you're a sociopath, you're not
showing or you're showing up to the airport without
a shower. Yeah. And like you say, I don't care
what you're wearing. Just just be clean. Stay
in your zone, though, a little bit like don't
want to use all the space. Sure. But that comes
with minding your own business. I'm going to
sit here. I'm going to like read my book. I'm
going to play on my iPad. I'm going to take a
nap and I'm not going to bother anyone. But like,
I do want to know when Sean Duffy like got on
the TV and said what he was saying about like,
we need to bring civility back to flying. Who
was that for? Who are we doing that for? Yeah,
I do want to know that. Who's the audience for
that? He had some sort of encounter the day before
that he didn't like. Some girl probably was wearing
a very small T -shirt and it was too distracting
for him. Probably. He wants her to wear more
clothes. That's what it is. Could be. Even if
that's not what it is, that's what I believe
it is. Well, you know, we we used to go to a
lot of trade shows and stuff. And out here we
have like these shows like Comdex and these other
ones in Vegas. Right. And often they overlap
with like some big porn awards thing. So you'd
fly in and out of Vegas and there's like all
the, you know, porn stars are there on the plane.
Almost nothing. Nothing, right. Well, because
they're going straight from the plane to work.
Yeah, I guess. Well, it goes straight to the
plane to the trade show floor. We did that all
the time. Well, that's true. Yeah, yeah. And
there was definitely people on the plane that
were not comfortable with that. No. I found it
just kind of entertaining. I'm also like, good
for these girls. They're going straight to work,
man. Whatever. Good for them. I love that. They're
not the ones making the problem. You are. Right,
exactly. Like you say, it's self -inflicted.
Right. There is. What do you have, honey? I've
covered my stuff. I'm all good. Cool. Lisa, did
you have anything else? I could go on forever.
I've got a long list of shit. We can go on forever
just on the Housewives themselves and I don't
even watch it anymore. So I that's I got to tell
you, that's something if you've ever listened
to my show, that is something that I will talk
about to no end. And like, I, I do get the argument
that they're not they're not great people in
a lot of cases, like you were saying earlier.
But it's something that like I've had to like
really grapple with where like Jen Shah is getting
out of prison. And like, I mean, she went to
prison for literally defrauding vulnerable elderly
people out of like their social security checks.
And I'm like. Can I still watch her on the real
house of Salt Lake City if she does come back?
And like, I think that is a very fair assessment
where it's like you. Like you can make the argument
of separating the art from the artist in a lot
of cases, but I'm like, oh, I don't I don't know
if I could separate that. I think that's very
fair, Lisa. Yeah, because you're actually paying
her. Your your time is money for them. Your eyes
are money for them. So you're actually paying
her. She doesn't deserve your money. I'm just
telling you, Travis. She didn't deserve like
all the old people's money. Exactly. Yeah. You
can always watch Love After Lockup or 90 Day
Fiance. Those are good. Those are good shows.
There's nothing wrong with those. Listen, I'll
watch 90 Day Fiance all day long. And like Love
After Lockup is something like during COVID,
I got deep into that show. That's so funny because
we got deep into like some very bizarre documentaries.
Not only, you know, of course, Tiger King, everyone
got involved in that. Love Tiger King. So, of
course, you watch Chimp Crazy, right? No, what
was Chimp Crazy? Made by the same people. Okay.
This lady hid a chimp from PETA. Actually, a
very large chimp. I think you would enjoy it.
I'll check it out. And it's also a lot of my
monkey's not going to tear my face off. Right.
And there are some faces that have been torn
off. Beautiful. Yeah. So Chimp Crazy was another
one. And Don't Fuck With Cats. Those are, I mean,
those are the style of documentaries we got into
at Gov. I love that. Speaking of the Tiger King.
Don't Fuck With Cats, right? I've seen that one.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Good. Speaking of Tiger King.
Speaking of Tiger King, he's an interesting case
because he's the one that's been like begging
Donald Trump for a pardon. And it would appear
that Donald Trump will pardon literally anyone
except for the Tiger King. And why? And why?
Because the Tiger King, I mean, I mean, I don't
know why he wouldn't pardon him because he would
get a lot of publicity. i don't know like that
like i mean that was the thing though is he had
a limo waiting outside of his jail like for like
waiting for that pardon and like they were like
that's that's not happening like yeah yeah it's
unfortunate i don't know yeah i mean it's weird
they don't see some like you say some political
advantage to it because like you say that it
would be a lot less you know bad than a lot of
the other people he's pardoned Yeah, I mean,
if you can let all the January six people off,
you can let the Tiger King off, like let let
him run his zoo. It can only be stuffed animals
now. He's not allowed to have any of getting
permits to have exotic animals. But I would love
to see. I don't think he ever had a permit. No,
that's true. But I mean, he was also on camera
and he did a he did a couple of. reality shows
before tiger king because he was did the whole
um he was in louis louisiana right i don't know
could be somewhere louisiana or yeah it had to
have been louisiana because it wasn't maybe mississippi
i don't know right and he was making this big
deal about what a hickey was and but but he was
marrying this man and i know he's married two
men and that was so shocking and we're like going
okay Why are you freaking out? OK, it's just
for this show. And but who so you never know
what the story is about. Yeah, he was he was
just he wanted publicity so bad. Yeah, it was
publicity. It was like his third try at some
sort of documentary show about his life. And
that was that was the thing is like, I remember
watching that and I was like, this guy is like.
you could write like an entire sociology paper
on him because like he's so bizarre and this
like obsession he had with carol baskin and like
i'm like who is this diva And then like you find
out that he like was dating the guy that ended
up like blowing his brains out. Like, but like
he was married to the other guy. And like the
guy that like accidentally shot himself was also
like straight, I guess, like ostensibly. The
whole thing is so crazy. And that kid's mom was
still hanging out with the tiger king. And you're
like, honey, honey, you're oh, oh, yeah. she
needed a hug bad and she needed to be into the
car and driven away she needed someone to hold
her hand and like look her dead in the eye and
just say a couple things she needed to hear because
that was rough right what are you still doing
here yeah you're you mean your son is gone but
you're still sitting here i i don't know to me
that was just yeah What else? What else, you
guys? You need to watch Chim Crazy and then get
back to us. I will absolutely watch Chim Crazy.
Was it on Netflix? I think it was on HBO, actually.
I will add it to my list right now. You probably
can get it almost anywhere, but wow, she's magic.
From the moment they start her on the camera,
you're looking at that hair and those lips that
she's... have blown up and you're like oh yeah
this is this is gonna be a good ride for all
my talks for all my talk of dissing like reality
shows one of my uh guilty pleasures for a while
was like animal planet had this show and it was
more like a you can almost say it's like a cop
show almost but it was like all these people
that had wild animals you know as pets and They
all say the exact same thing, you know, talking
about my leopard's not going to eat my face off.
They all basically say that, right? My alligator's
dead. All these experts would tell him, you can't
keep this animal. It's going to kill you someday.
It's like, oh, no, you don't understand. My tiger
loves me. My tiger is not going to eat my face
off. And they all say that. And they all got
killed in this show. Everyone got eaten. Oh,
yeah. No, we had a guy in my neighbor. Not well,
my neighborhood. I say that loosely because I
live out in the country. But like we had a guy
growing up in my neighborhood who kept a bear
like a big brown bear in his backyard, like in
like a fenced in cage situation that was like
probably. ten by six and they were like the like
the county was out to his house several times
being like sir you will die like this like and
i guess like in the state of indiana it's totally
legal to have a bear as a pet like there's like
fine okay great but you so he had this bear in
his backyard and he like and then the one of
the the kid who i went to school with like And
he came to school one day and they were like,
yeah, my dad's in the hospital because the bear
like slashed his chest open. Oh, my gosh. One
of these one of these people had a like a Komodo
dragon that they were that was their pet. And
it was, you know, the classic, you know, like
my Komodo dragon loves me. My Komodo dragon is
not going to kill me. you know the dragon doesn't
have feelings it's a dinosaur it does not have
feelings no and uh you know so the guy was missing
like for a while they finally did like a whatever
you call it to self the check they do that wellness
check they did a wellness check on him and this
is well i bet this dragon was just had been munching
on him for like a week dragon was dragon was
well there was like half of him left but the
dragon was just like i'll save this part for
tomorrow munching them up that's that's one of
those things i i look at people that keep reptiles
as pets like where they have like like full blood
like out of snakes or one thing but like that's
still like weird for me but like i look at reptiles
and i'm like no one really talks about how i
wholeheartedly believe that those are like like
just dinosaurs that have evolved like you cannot
tell me that these komodo dragons are not like
of this world like so Like, there's no way, there's
no way I'd keep one of those as a pet. No way.
There's nothing pet like a reptile. Reptiles
aren't cuddly. They're not fun to pet. They don't,
they don't fetch. They care about you less than
a cat does. Yeah. And they're like, they feel
weird. And like, I, it's, I've, I've never. And
you have to feed them live animals. But if you
are keeping a list, I also highly recommend Cat
Dancer. Cat Dancer. Cat Dancer. And it's about
two ballerinas. Cat Dancer. It's about two ballet
people who are ballerinas, a man and a wife.
And they decided to bring tigers into their act.
Found it. On Amazon. There it is. There you go.
That's on the list. There you go. There you go.
And it's, it's a boy that, that story took some
turns. You're like, wait, wait, what? Yeah. I
didn't see that coming. I didn't see that coming.
There was a couple of that guy. Yeah. Yeah. I
can't wait. That's another one that. Just when
you think, you know, what's happening. Right.
Exactly. Like, who's that? Beautiful. Yeah. Cool.
What else? Do you guys have anything else on
your list to throw at the people? No, I think
I think I think I've exhausted my list for tonight.
At least I got like 25 things, but nothing interesting.
Nothing worth talking about. More politics. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you guys can come on when you come
on to come back on whenever you want. I'm going
to need to fill in a couple more spots before
Emma comes back. But this has been such a blast.
Like tell the plug your show. Tell the people
where they can find you. So This Week in Outrage
is a podcast you can find on any of your players.
You can go to outrageoverload .net is our main
website where we kind of have all the serious
stuff we do, but also the silly stuff. The silly
stuff is a little harder to find, but it's on
there. You can reach out. But yeah, This Week
in Outrage is on Spotify and Apple and all the
places. Same with my Outrage Overload show. We
also do sub stacks. You can get that from there
if you'd like to read stuff more than. more than
listen to silly stuff. You can read my stuff.
And then, yeah, that's pretty much it. All my
contact info is on there. So fill all of our
contact info. So you have some idea you'd like
to talk about. We do our show live on Sunday
nights. So you can actually chat with us live
on Substack. So if you want to participate, you
can just join our Substack and we go live every
Sunday night. Amazing. Well, thank you so much,
Lisa. Do you have anything to plug? No, I'll
be okay. I'm back in town. I've missed a couple
of shows, but I'm back in town. So I will be,
I've been saving stuff up for Sunday. I know
I've been saving stuff up too. So we're going
to, that show may go a little long. Yeah. Yeah.
I will. I will listen live. I can't wait. This
is going to be so cool. Awesome. Well, thank
you. Thank you so much. And I'm wondering if
I can get a squeak mail to me. they'll get a
swig yeah but they have the recipes up there
so we might try that for um thanksgiving oh that
sounds disgusting it is okay i've got all the
rest i've got all the uh ingredients okay all
right and keep drinking your diet dr pepper i
can do that yes yeah cool well from indy to wherever
we love you and thanks for listening