00:10:46.290 --> 00:10:49.840 Mo Holloman: Hello, unicorns! This is nice girl, detox 130 00:10:49.860 --> 00:10:55.340 Mo Holloman: a space for femmes and folks shaped by good girl conditioning 131 00:10:55.350 --> 00:11:10.500 Mo Holloman: those who are ready to unlearn shame, heal the sister wound and stop shrinking in silence. We're done with that shit. This is where we practice being seen and felt and held without having to perform. 132 00:11:10.500 --> 00:11:33.609 Leslie: Nice grill detox, just as a little run through. This is a come and go space. And I mean that in our Facebook group, and also on this call here. So if you need to hop off the call, no big deal, if other future calls, you want to hop on just when you can. There's there's no pressure right? We're just here to receive you. However, you're able to come so. 133 00:11:34.226 --> 00:11:38.540 Mo Holloman: Tonight, if you feel called to share 134 00:11:38.870 --> 00:11:51.749 Mo Holloman: or if you feel called to just stay quiet and receive the message. That's totally fine. Just keep us on in the background, even as you do some body doubling. We love that. So if you're if you're like. 135 00:11:51.750 --> 00:12:17.369 Mo Holloman: you know, listen while you're stemming, or you're folding laundry, or you're doing something else that's totally welcome. This is your body's space. This is your space. This is not a classroom. This is a hangout, right? And if you're neurodivergent, or queer, or sensitive, or just tired of pretending, we literally made this space for you. We are here to grieve out loud together. 136 00:12:17.370 --> 00:12:40.469 Mo Holloman: and like, I said, if you need to turn your camera off, or walk away, or cry off, screen or scream, mute your mic. But just listen with your heart, you know. Do whatever feels good to you. Tonight's call is called boldness and grieving. This was named by Leslie. She's a writer. She's a poet, she's a healer. 137 00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:47.500 Mo Holloman: and you know we're really just here for this raw human experience. Unapologetic grief. 138 00:12:47.530 --> 00:13:14.969 Mo Holloman: the kind that teaches you who you're becoming. Grief is not about death. It's it's about losing versions of yourself. It's about losing roles, identities, safety timelines, and people, even people who never saw you people who never met the You. You wish they could have met tonight before. We share a little bit about Leslie, and and I'll intro her in just a moment 139 00:13:15.340 --> 00:13:40.309 Mo Holloman: if you would like to, in the comments. If you would like to share at any point, you can for sure. Just say some things in the comments, and we'll touch base about those. If you would like to share with us and hop on the call and engage with us. I would like you to just write share. If you have a comment to share share the comment. If you want to join us, put share, and we'll just call you up when your time comes. 140 00:13:40.310 --> 00:13:51.680 Mo Holloman: If you would like to do coaching, put coaching anything else, drop it in the comments, and I'll just be watching it. And this is this is your space, too. So 141 00:13:52.110 --> 00:14:00.410 Mo Holloman: I would like it if if tonight, as we get started, breath is one of those things for me that's just always here and always available. 142 00:14:01.800 --> 00:14:06.520 Mo Holloman: Let's connect with our breath for just a minute. If you just want to take a big breath in through the nose 143 00:14:08.260 --> 00:14:09.919 Mo Holloman: out through the mouth. 144 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:14.847 Mo Holloman: We'll do one more and like really blow it out 145 00:14:15.750 --> 00:14:19.750 Mo Holloman: big breath in through the nose and then big breath out. 146 00:14:20.190 --> 00:14:22.270 Mo Holloman: Maybe if you want to shake it out. 147 00:14:22.450 --> 00:14:48.080 Mo Holloman: I've got some energy moving through me now, so I'm alive. I'm ready tonight. Unicorns. We are joined by a very special guest. Leslie Hedy. She's my forever sister, I tell her all the time you're my soul, sister, I really feel that way. I feel like we've been connected, and we were meant to know each other in this lifetime. For sure she brings truth. I'm getting choked up already. She brings truth. She brings warmth. 148 00:14:48.150 --> 00:15:08.000 Mo Holloman: She brings sacred power into this conversation, about loss, about transformation, about becoming, and so welcome to nice girl detox, Leslie. I'd love to bring you into the call girl. Hello, girl! Thank you for being here. 149 00:15:08.630 --> 00:15:18.589 Leslie: Thank you for having me. I may be taking sips. This is hot water, but like I just you know, it's Missouri in the spring, and I'm choked up so. 150 00:15:18.590 --> 00:15:19.440 Mo Holloman: You take. 151 00:15:20.040 --> 00:15:31.418 Mo Holloman: I love that you bring this up, because, honestly, this space is all about honoring yourself. So if you need to get up, walk off whatever I've got my drink, too. We we take care of ourselves around here. 152 00:15:31.710 --> 00:15:46.409 Leslie: Okay. First, st I just wanted everybody may be semi familiar with my story because a lot of it was public. But 5 years ago my bonus son Christian, was diagnosed with cancer. 153 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:51.964 Leslie: Doug. Hetty is my husband. If you don't know that especially if you're not from here. 154 00:15:52.280 --> 00:15:52.859 Sal Stevens: I'm in. 155 00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:58.490 Leslie: And we embarked in a 15 month extraordinarily public 156 00:15:58.760 --> 00:16:27.400 Leslie: battle with cancer, with with a child. And if a child having cancer isn't hard enough trying to manage that publicly is really really difficult. You take probably the hardest thing you could ever walk through and put it on a public platform with a lot of people feeling a very personal connection to it, and feeling a part of it, and feeling like they 157 00:16:28.890 --> 00:16:45.129 Leslie: almost are, owed a part of your story, but also the flip-flop of people being so supportive, and that support kind of granting, like some of Christian's wishes, and some of his support and feeling kind of like this 158 00:16:45.610 --> 00:17:11.059 Leslie: mix of like super profound gratitude, and then also a struggle with like privacy, and knowing how to grieve, and knowing how like to keep things sacred. It was a lot. It was a lot on many, many fronts. And then, of course, we obviously we lost Christian on September 3rd of 2021. And I 159 00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:14.750 Leslie: won't talk about that specifically too much, because 160 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:37.000 Leslie: it's hard. And I could talk about it forever, because he was the most amazing kid in in the history of the world. But it's hard to lose a kid any kid, ever, for any reason. But it is hard to lose a child especially to watch them wither away from cancer, and then post Christian passing. We 161 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:39.740 Leslie: had a lot of public 162 00:17:41.510 --> 00:17:52.330 Leslie: I want to say support. But sometimes it was just invasion. And this, really like made me go super super inward with my grief. 163 00:17:52.811 --> 00:18:18.500 Leslie: Mo can tell you. I started working with her 2 years ago, and one of the 1st things we had to work on is me even remembering who I was as a human being, because I felt like I had to lock myself down in so many different ways, just to protect myself and to protect my own feelings, and some of the things I would like deal with on a regular basis. I could tell you a whole horde of things, but some things that I think 164 00:18:18.520 --> 00:18:29.109 Leslie: we, as humans probably deal with in grieving is people. I'm a hairstylist. So I talk to a lot of people all the time they would come in and be like, how's Doug? 165 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:32.009 Leslie: And just completely dismiss 166 00:18:32.070 --> 00:18:57.849 Leslie: that like I had any sort of feelings because I was the bonus mom in the situation. Completely dismissed that like I even cared that Christian passed, or that I had feelings or and people had a connection to Doug, you know, and these would not be my personal clients, but we dealt with everywhere we went in public like people wanting to talk about. 167 00:18:57.860 --> 00:19:06.820 Leslie: I mean, I'm talking Sam's Walmart out to dinner, like everywhere people wanting to explain like their personal. And 168 00:19:07.080 --> 00:19:12.109 Leslie: it is so kind, and it's such a hard like 169 00:19:12.290 --> 00:19:22.039 Leslie: paradigm to navigate, because people I do believe, genuinely care. But when it's such a raw thing, I think we can all kind of relate to the fact that 170 00:19:22.190 --> 00:19:36.239 Leslie: the raw, tender things that we grieve. It's really hard to figure out how to both protect and share them. And that is kind of the dance that I had to start doing. How do we keep these things sacred? 171 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:56.759 Leslie: How do we carve a space that the most sacred things in our lives, the things that crack us wide open, the losses that just feel like they shatter us whole. How do we share those things in the world? So they're not forgotten. So they are honored and seen, and light is brought to them 172 00:19:56.890 --> 00:20:02.559 Leslie: without losing the sacredness. Because I think we all I mean that's why we're here. 173 00:20:02.670 --> 00:20:22.430 Leslie: There is a fear of safety, you know, in self expression in honoring ourselves in our pain, and and you know the the uniqueness of our hurt or our loss. And so when Mo and I started working together. That was one of the 1st things I couldn't even remember. Like as a human being, what I like to do. 174 00:20:22.520 --> 00:20:39.390 Leslie: like my identity had just been our identity became cancer like 100% cancer. I mean, it is all anybody talked about. I mean, obviously, it's all we thought about because we were trying to keep a kid alive. So we 175 00:20:39.790 --> 00:20:56.480 Leslie: ate, breathed, slept. Cancer 24, 7. And when we moved through that experience we very quickly became advocates for childhood cancer. So we were talking with other families. And, you know, just really trying to advocate. 176 00:20:56.500 --> 00:21:13.600 Leslie: And it's very, very easy to get wrapped up in identity, and whatever like your grief is, and I'm sure you know everybody's got their own grief story, whether it is like a specific loss or it is, you know, there's so many types of grief and what we can get into all of that. But 177 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:25.269 Leslie: I had completely lost my identity. And so Mo and I started talking about what that looked like, and and how to be authentic to my grief, how to give a voice to it, how to 178 00:21:27.300 --> 00:21:31.230 Leslie: maybe even give a name to it. And that's when I started realizing. 179 00:21:32.280 --> 00:21:35.039 Leslie: I truly believe Christian's okay. 180 00:21:35.290 --> 00:21:59.369 Leslie: I've lost my dad, too. He died a year ago. It was. He was only 65. He was 2 weeks from retirement and had just a fatal stroke. He wasn't sick. He wasn't anything just like Bam gone, and it changed the infrastructure of my family. I am firstborn daughter, 1st born grandchild, and so I feel like. 181 00:22:00.140 --> 00:22:14.569 Leslie: in a way, I don't want to say that I'm responsible for everyone. But I definitely took on a very different role in my family, like helping my mom walk through grief because we'd already been through something really big, helping my sisters adjust. I have 2 sisters. 182 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:27.820 Leslie: So I started formulating and recalculating and reimagining what sacredness of grief looks like. And Mo. And I have talked about this so much. 183 00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:30.830 Leslie: I have a relationship with my grief. 184 00:22:31.070 --> 00:22:55.829 Leslie: So my loss, whether it's C or my dad. It is a continued relationship that I hold sacred just like I did their relationships when they were physically here, because I believe they're still with me, and that space that they took up here is still sacred. And it's already complicated to have relationships with physical people who are here like, I think we can all agree 185 00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:06.479 Leslie: with that like relationships are just complicated, even the best ones. They're complicated. And we're constantly ebbing and flowing and growing, but having a relationship with grief 186 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:31.819 Leslie: is really complicated. And one thing I realized is, if I didn't give that grief, space, and attention when it came knocking like we can all feel it right, whatever the grief is in our life. If you feel the little knot in your stomach, or you feel the little tickle in your throat, or you feel your chest tightening, and it's just one of those days that's harder than other days. 187 00:23:31.820 --> 00:23:36.850 Leslie: and if you don't sit with it and acknowledge it, and 188 00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:44.999 Leslie: give it that sacred time like it becomes something that haunts you, and that's something that 189 00:23:45.130 --> 00:23:52.290 Leslie: I have learned is my grief is not a monster that's haunting me. My grief is not. 190 00:23:53.210 --> 00:23:54.779 Leslie: It's sad. 191 00:23:54.880 --> 00:24:09.320 Leslie: but it's not negative. My grief is the sacred place for these people that I have loved so so much to still take up space in my life and in my heart, and 192 00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:39.370 Leslie: I have to figure out how to honor that in a way that honors them and honors me. And that's different for everybody. I mean. Some people like to write. Some people like to sit outside, you know, and watch the sunset or breathe some fresh air. Some people need to actually talk to the people that are gone. I mean, I do that sometimes, like I I talk to my dad a lot. Actually, sometimes I'm really frustrated with him, because I'm like. 193 00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:43.690 Leslie: you know, I really don't want to mow your mom's yard. So thanks for that, you know. 194 00:24:44.194 --> 00:24:45.705 Mo Holloman: I love that. 195 00:24:47.120 --> 00:25:00.938 Leslie: But whatever it is, I think that it's so important for us to acknowledge the sacredness of whatever it is, and it could be a person it could be a situation and 196 00:25:01.560 --> 00:25:08.619 Leslie: The other thing that I have learned like as a whole is grief is a very, very layered thing. 197 00:25:08.780 --> 00:25:21.170 Leslie: One thing happens, but it is like a layered thing. You can have a loss of a human being or a situational loss, but it will. It can change your identity. 198 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:33.030 Leslie: it can change the people around you. It can change the way that you think about certain things or certain people. So it is just a constant 199 00:25:33.280 --> 00:25:35.749 Leslie: thing that we are trying to 200 00:25:35.870 --> 00:25:43.680 Leslie: renegotiate or restructure the way that we pretty much do our whole life after we have something happen. 201 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:53.019 Leslie: So I'll start there and then. Mo, if you have anything that you want to kind of direct like, that's kind of where my story has all started. 202 00:25:53.400 --> 00:26:01.080 Mo Holloman: Hmm, my gosh, you guys, can we just like pause about how amazing Leslie is for a minute, girl. 203 00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:31.079 Mo Holloman: thank you for sharing that. You know, I'd like to touch on a couple of things that that you shared, and before I do that I want to remind everyone who may be joined after we started. We have the the chat box up and running, so if you want to throw comments in, or emojis, whatever, throw those in. If you would like to share and have us call you up to share. Live on this call, put share in the comments. 204 00:26:31.080 --> 00:26:46.560 Mo Holloman: If you would like to be coached, put coaching in the comments just to update you, just to remind you that if you want to to be a part of this conversation, you absolutely can. And if you want to receive tonight and and not talk or be seen, that's okay, too. 205 00:26:46.560 --> 00:27:01.179 Mo Holloman: Something that you said, Leslie, that I really love is that your grief is not some big, scary monster, and a lot of times we feel like our emotions are big, scary monsters, especially the ones that you're feeling 206 00:27:01.180 --> 00:27:14.440 Mo Holloman: pain around literal pain, like sometimes we don't actually just say it. We like to to tamp it down and act like it's something else. It's like it hurts, you know. And so we see that as evidence to run, it's scary, right? But 207 00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:32.439 Mo Holloman: your emotion is literally so. This is perfect. What you said. It's energy in motion, it's and I'm not just trying to be poetic. That's that's real. And so when grief arises in us in any emotion arises within us. It's asking us to move something 208 00:27:32.530 --> 00:27:44.290 Mo Holloman: through us so that it doesn't get stuck so that we don't hold it in places like our jaws, our shoulders, our stomachs right, our chest the ache. 209 00:27:44.290 --> 00:28:04.650 Mo Holloman: You know how many times is your throat closed up, and you swallow down your grief rather than rage it out. You know, like, sometimes I just want to rage about it, or sometimes I just want to weep and howl, you know, or just scream right? And so you know something that's very important for neurodivergent people 210 00:28:04.890 --> 00:28:19.169 Mo Holloman: and every people. By the way, every people. It's it's important for all of us, especially for neurodivergent people. Sometimes this is felt in our bodies before we really experience it. And so I like to talk a lot about somatic processes. So shaking. 211 00:28:19.310 --> 00:28:42.610 Mo Holloman: swaying, asking yourself, you know, before you do any of those things, what do I need right now? What am I feeling? Oh, my throat's getting tight? Oh, my chest, you know. And that's okay. Speak into those areas. What do you need? Right? I love that. You shared some examples. Leslie, like writing, sometimes writing for me, is so helpful. Getting online and sharing is so helpful. 212 00:28:42.610 --> 00:29:05.449 Mo Holloman: I hold myself sometimes and will literally just sway and say, I love you. You're okay. I'm with you, you know, walk in circles, punching pillows, you know. Dance dancing is really fun. If you have a song that makes you feel something primal. Screaming is really good, you know. Go somewhere where you can scream or scream into a pillow or 213 00:29:05.450 --> 00:29:21.650 Mo Holloman: lie on a floor. Emotion isn't meant to be solved. It's meant to be witnessed. It's meant to be moved right. And so I would love for us to just really pause around what Leslie shared there, you know these these words that we're sharing tonight are so important. We're planting seeds. 214 00:29:22.248 --> 00:29:27.480 Mo Holloman: A lot of times with clients. What I'll say is awareness is the 1st step. 215 00:29:27.760 --> 00:29:39.270 Mo Holloman: Now let's use our awareness and create some kind of pattern interrupt from maybe in the past you've ignored it or suppressed it. We're here to 216 00:29:39.730 --> 00:29:52.670 Mo Holloman: let it all out. And so I'm noticing we have a couple people in the comments who would like to share Leslie before we continue this conversation. Are you open to bringing someone on and and hearing from someone. 217 00:29:52.970 --> 00:29:53.919 Leslie: Oh, sure. Yeah. 218 00:29:53.920 --> 00:30:16.484 Mo Holloman: Let's do it. Let's bring let's bring up Nicole. Nicole. I I would love to if if you can. There you have it. There you have it, hey, girl, I'm gonna add Nicole to the spotlight. All that we ask is is that you you share? Don't feel a rush, but concisely. 219 00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:17.450 Nicole: What. 220 00:30:17.820 --> 00:30:35.260 Nicole: 1st of all, thank you for being so vulnerable with us, Leslie, like it's so hard to get in front of people you don't even know and share something so incredibly personal. So just thank you for sharing that space with us. I just wanted to let you know, like I am also a firstborn daughter. 221 00:30:35.320 --> 00:30:48.370 Nicole: firstborn grandchild, and there's so much that goes into that that people just don't even recognize. So I hear you and I see you, and I feel you and I just wanted to share that with you. 222 00:30:49.187 --> 00:30:56.710 Mo Holloman: You're looking good. By the way, I love seeing. Is there anything else you want to share? Or are you feeling complete? 223 00:30:58.060 --> 00:31:01.475 Nicole: So much that I could share. But I'm trying to be concise. 224 00:31:01.760 --> 00:31:05.010 Mo Holloman: Well, if you want to share something else, I don't rush you. Okay. 225 00:31:05.010 --> 00:31:24.659 Nicole: Yeah, we just all have so much trauma and pressure. And as women and people who are going through life, you know, there's so many nuanced layers to what we have going on, that it's not just a simple one thing. It's so much complexity, all working together and figuring out how we can unravel that. 226 00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:43.159 Nicole: We've that tangled mess. And sometimes it's just really helpful to have other people, you know, who are going through the same thing who've come out the other side and being able to hear their stories and then also work with someone like Mo. I've been working with Mo for 2 years. Shameless plug definitely. Don't regret it. She's incredible. 227 00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:45.147 Nicole: So you should. 228 00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:48.910 Nicole: that's all. 229 00:31:49.360 --> 00:32:17.679 Mo Holloman: Girl I love you. Thank you so much for sharing nicole is a body of wisdom as well. I very deep soul. She's my! I like to call her my midnight Fairy Queen. She's also in the community. So if you want to hang out more with Nicole you can hang out with her there. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm gonna take you off the spotlight, and we're gonna pop back in this conversation, Leslie, and we got another Leslie in the house. She'll come up next. But we're gonna get back into this conversation. 230 00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:28.749 Mo Holloman: Leslie, you know. So we talked a little bit about energy and motion and about creating, you know, ritual and space for this in our life. 231 00:32:29.060 --> 00:32:34.859 Mo Holloman: Would you like to chat about that now, or is there somewhere else that you're like. Before we get to that I have something else. I wanna say. 232 00:32:34.860 --> 00:32:40.949 Leslie: Yeah, before we get to that, I just have something that's really like on my mind. 233 00:32:42.120 --> 00:32:58.189 Leslie: there is a strange competitive nature in the grief world. And I'm saying the the full spectrum of the grief world. And we at least people, you know, like someone may. 234 00:32:58.810 --> 00:33:24.589 Leslie: We'll we'll go with, you know fertility, or even like losing a child. Well, at least you have other children. Well, at least you got to have one. Well, at least you know. Well, I lost both my parents. At least you have one of your parents, and I think it's like ingrained in us to like. Look at the bright side like, I really don't think 235 00:33:26.790 --> 00:33:51.749 Leslie: I think we're especially in the area of the country that we live in. Like we're kind of. We try and make things like happier, you know, like, well, you know. Look at the look at the bright side. At least this happened, or at least this happened, and I think that there is a competitive nature, and I think that that is part of the fear surrounding sharing our grief because someone might minimize it 236 00:33:51.850 --> 00:34:09.140 Leslie: or someone's grief might be bigger than our grief and make us feel like, well, I'm not allowed to share my grief because they've had something worse happen, so mine doesn't count as much. And I think that's something that happens 237 00:34:09.409 --> 00:34:10.929 Leslie: all the time. 238 00:34:11.050 --> 00:34:12.270 Leslie: And 239 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:23.810 Leslie: we talk about safety a lot like, specifically in this group, you know, in the nice girl detox community we talk about safety for like showing our feelings and being who we are and expressing ourselves. 240 00:34:23.810 --> 00:34:48.360 Leslie: but really like it is a complex thing, especially when you're sharing really, really raw things. Like, you know, we've all got different types of grief there. There are so many types of grief. It's not just loss of a human like, you know. There are. Oh, my goodness! Like just the complexities of grief in life are wild, you know, autoimmune disease or diagnosed illness. 241 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:58.960 Leslie: I mean, I could go on and on. Everybody kind of knows, like we are all perplexed with grief. I don't think there's probably a person walking this earth who hasn't felt some sort of grief, I mean even 242 00:34:58.970 --> 00:35:02.240 Leslie: babies weaning from breastfeeding 243 00:35:02.260 --> 00:35:11.780 Leslie: mommies, you know, like there is grief, like instinctually in the process of growing and living and and growing up on earth. And 244 00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:17.229 Leslie: I I can't tell you what the answer is, but what I can tell you is 245 00:35:17.270 --> 00:35:23.719 Leslie: we're kind of talking about that expression. The boldness of grief is, it is okay 246 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:49.870 Leslie: to grieve in whatever thing that you're grieving regardless. If you think somebody has had it harder or worse. I can't tell you the number of people who have fought cancer or their children have fought cancer. And they feel like they need to say to me, this has been so hard like, it's so hard to watch. But at least they're okay. And I'm like you do not have to do that. You do not have to be grateful for cancer ever 247 00:35:49.930 --> 00:35:57.709 Leslie: like, even if you have fought it and beat it. You do not have to be grateful for it to me, because 248 00:35:57.990 --> 00:36:16.689 Leslie: it steals so many things, and even if it didn't take your life, it's taken a lot from you, and you don't owe that to me just because I had a different outcome or we had a different outcome. You don't have to give that to me. But we feel societally like we do, you know, like we need to minimize 249 00:36:16.930 --> 00:36:38.059 Leslie: the grief, the pain, or whatever we're going through because somebody had it a little bit worse than we had, or maybe a lot worse than we had it. And I think that that's a conversation of figuring out how to live in authenticity. Obviously, we don't want to bulldoze anybody, you know, like, that's not what we're trying to do in life, but you are allowed 250 00:36:38.060 --> 00:36:50.979 Leslie: to be a deep griever like in whatever capacity, whatever you're walking through. And there's a way to honor that that's just truth. It's just simply truth. I am sad about this. 251 00:36:51.030 --> 00:36:58.650 Leslie: I'm just sad. And could it be your could it be worse? Hell, yeah, it could be worse. But could it have not happened? 252 00:36:59.230 --> 00:37:03.699 Leslie: Maybe so, and that would be better, you know. I mean we could. We could 253 00:37:03.970 --> 00:37:23.669 Leslie: should, and hypothetical all day long. You are allowed to be freaking sad. You are allowed to be sad, and it doesn't have to compete with anybody else. You are allowed to want things that maybe you're not going to get. You are allowed to be angry about things that happen that you don't have control of. 254 00:37:23.770 --> 00:37:49.130 Leslie: You're allowed to take up that space and feel those emotions and be in grief about stuff, even if somebody has it worse or has it different. And I think that that's something that I would really, really, especially as women. Men are more allowed to feel big feelings, you know, like they might not express it, but they they have permission to be big mad, you know, or whatever it is 255 00:37:49.410 --> 00:37:58.770 Leslie: we need to take. Take it, even if we don't have permission, because we all need it. And we need to actively see other women 256 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:04.850 Leslie: grieving like Mo and I have talked like other societies around the world. 257 00:38:04.950 --> 00:38:21.819 Leslie: They they grieve together, you know, like, if if a sister has had a loss. You know, we're going to surround around her, and we're going to grieve together and give her time like we need to figure out how to communally support people 258 00:38:21.820 --> 00:38:36.889 Leslie: in their feels, because I feel grief even on our best day, is lonely as hell, and I think probably everyone can probably agree with that it is so stinking lonely to grieve. 259 00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:38.100 Leslie: And 260 00:38:38.320 --> 00:39:07.670 Leslie: I you know I and I think part of that is the fear surrounding. Is someone going to tell me to get over it, or that I've been sad long enough, or that I need to, you know. Go to therapy and fix it, or that. Well, like, I said before. Well, at least it's not like so. And so they've got it work, you know, like there is this residual fear that someone's going to tell us we're not allowed to feel the way that we feel. And then what do we do? And so we just isolate. And 261 00:39:07.860 --> 00:39:11.789 Leslie: I think it's hard to move through grief when you're by yourself, isn't it? 262 00:39:13.030 --> 00:39:13.840 Mo Holloman: Hmm! 263 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:36.190 Mo Holloman: I could not agree more, Nicole even just mentioned. We need a village which is hard today, and and you're right, and I love. What you said about it really is the idea of radical inclusivity in grief. Right? So when you think about black, indigenous persons of color, they carry trauma around 264 00:39:36.190 --> 00:40:04.480 Mo Holloman: all kinds of things that the world often doesn't acknowledge. You've got queer folks who grieve chosen family, lost homes, silent truths, disabled folks that you know, grieve, energy, loss, access, or, you know, feeling invisible. You've got immigrants, and you've got refugees who don't have homes in ways that don't translate. You know to us. Necessarily those who do have security and home. 265 00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:08.680 Mo Holloman: You've got survivors who grieve what they had to do 266 00:40:08.680 --> 00:40:24.900 Mo Holloman: to survive. And so you're right. Grief is not one size fits all, and and not everyone can afford to grieve in the same ways. You know we we are not here to compare pain. We're here to acknowledge all of it, and not erase 267 00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:41.320 Mo Holloman: any of it. You don't have to justify any amount of grief that you have, and you don't have to come up with language, for you know the aches that you feel right, you know thankfully, though we do have boundaries. 268 00:40:41.410 --> 00:41:07.180 Mo Holloman: and we have such an opportunity to develop relationships with people that honor and serve us, which is something in, you know my coaching with clients, I always say, you know, create relationships that honor and serve you. And one of the ways we do that is through boundaries. Do you feel like now is a good time to touch base? On what boundaries can look like. I know that this is a sensitive topic, or is there somewhere else you'd like to head first.st I want to make sure 269 00:41:07.180 --> 00:41:07.866 Mo Holloman: that's great. 270 00:41:09.200 --> 00:41:14.460 Leslie: When I, when we were chatting about this, we were chatting about boundaries. And how 271 00:41:15.270 --> 00:41:39.129 Leslie: grief is such a sensitive topic, you know, like whatever you are grieving. It is a very sensitive thing it like it could be, you know, any kind of spectrum, whether it is talking about like she said, like family stuff, marriage stuff like physical loss stuff, not working out the way that you want it to. I mean, there, there's so much grief. 272 00:41:39.250 --> 00:41:41.549 Leslie: and it is so. 273 00:41:42.090 --> 00:42:10.550 Leslie: It's so heart moving honestly like it. There are days when I can talk about it just like. At the beginning of this conversation I started talking about Christian. It got to me. There are days where I can't get it out, and there are days when I can't. But we've talked about how we want people to show up for us, but sometimes we're in a spot where it's too much, and figuring out how to normalize being like, I don't want you to stop caring about me or stop asking. But today I don't have it 274 00:42:10.580 --> 00:42:13.210 Leslie: because I feel like a lot of times. 275 00:42:13.370 --> 00:42:15.270 Leslie: There's my, there's my name. 276 00:42:16.959 --> 00:42:38.709 Leslie: I feel like a lot of times when you ask somebody like, How are you doing with that? If they get kind of like I can't talk about that. It's like a okay. I'm never asking so and so about this again, because they are really touchy. And I feel like I have to walk on eggshells, and I think normalizing. I want to have those conversations. But 277 00:42:38.800 --> 00:43:06.630 Leslie: I'm not always there, and it might be that I had a really hard day. It might be that I got triggered a little bit, and I just I don't have the energy or the capacity to talk about it, but on a different day I might want to talk about it for 3 h, you know, like, and I think we all can feel that, especially as women. Sometimes we're tapped, and those emotional triggers are just like, I can't do this right now, like, you know, I just need like some some safe space and some decompression. And I think that 278 00:43:06.790 --> 00:43:16.880 Leslie: us like normalizing the conversation of if you want to talk about that, you're welcome to like this is a safe space for you. 279 00:43:16.970 --> 00:43:23.449 Leslie: and if we do kind of have a little bit of reaction learning how to say, Hey, I can't do that right now. 280 00:43:23.450 --> 00:43:47.960 Leslie: I'm like, I'm feeling a certain way right now, and I don't have it in me. But but please don't stop asking, or please don't think that like I never want to talk about it. It's communication, and it's us staying inclusive and staying communal and staying like, you know. You're my sister. You're somebody I care about. I just can't do it today. But it doesn't mean like this is such an important topic or such an important thing to me. 281 00:43:47.980 --> 00:44:02.359 Leslie: I want you to still care about it, and I think that it's complicated. I wish there were easy answers. I wish there was just like a blueprint, a black and white. This is how you do it, and we'll all be successful. But it is a 282 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:30.870 Leslie: freaking, messy, messy, messy conversation that we keep having to have, and having to fumble over and having to maybe be a little bit reactive. Because let's be real when we're in deep grief, we can be a little bit reactive. And then people are like Ha! And like, they don't want anything to do with you, because they think, Oh, my gosh! Like she's really touchy about this, and then we feel even more alone. So I think, being able to have those conversations and say, Look. 283 00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:45.850 Leslie: I'm super emotional about this today. But I want you to ask me again, or I want you to ask me if I want to talk about it, and I know that that's weird, or maybe uncomfortable. But I care so much about this. I just don't have it in me today 284 00:44:46.020 --> 00:44:58.350 Leslie: and start being the teachers. We need teachers in our society who are helping people understand how to live in community, and grief is just a part of it. I hate that. But Mo and I talked about it. 285 00:44:58.520 --> 00:45:26.219 Leslie: One thing is certain we're all gonna die like, I mean, that is the circle of life. We're all gonna have hardship. We're going to have lost. Things are not gonna things are going to go to shit. Things are not going to work in our favor like we're we're gonna ride the wave and the tides of life, and being able to start learning how to have the messy conversations of I love you. I want you here in it with me, but I can't right now 286 00:45:26.220 --> 00:45:44.759 Leslie: and getting comfortable with that getting comfortable with, hey? She can't today, but maybe tomorrow, or maybe in 2 weeks, or maybe in 3 months, and just getting comfortable. That life is just messy. It's messy, and it's hard, and it's complicated, and we're sorting it. 287 00:45:45.120 --> 00:45:59.660 Leslie: But doing the hard work looks like, Hey, I'm here when you're ready, or Hey, I need to speak up and say I need you, and I think that's even harder. Like to say I need you to care about me. 288 00:45:59.780 --> 00:46:07.269 Leslie: because that opens us up to somebody, not caring about us and confirming that they do not care about our situation. But you know what 289 00:46:07.270 --> 00:46:31.560 Leslie: bye like. Let's get somebody who does. Let's start the process of calling in people who care about us who care about our hurt, and we'll care right back, like those are the communities we want to create of emotionally intelligent people who can see our pain. We see their pain. We learn how to collectively move through all of these experiences together. 290 00:46:31.560 --> 00:46:41.569 Leslie: carrying the load. So we're not alone, but it's messy work, and it takes being really vulnerable and really vulnerable situations and saying, Hey, I need somebody. 291 00:46:41.780 --> 00:46:46.889 Leslie: and I think it's easy to hold space for people, you know, because, being that person like 292 00:46:47.180 --> 00:47:02.430 Leslie: I'm here for you. That's a little easier than being like I need somebody. You know I'm raw. I'm vulnerable. I'm sad. I feel alone, and I just need somebody. That's the harder space because it opens you up to rejection. And 293 00:47:02.990 --> 00:47:28.309 Leslie: I don't know, like, I wish there was like an online course, you know, for us to like, figure out how to start really carving out these emotionally intelligent, vulnerable spaces to create that kind of community because we all need it, especially women like we need it so badly to learn how to communicate in that kind of way. But it just takes people starting to do the work. 294 00:47:28.310 --> 00:47:49.770 Leslie: and it's going to be messy, and there's probably going to be some rejection in there, and there's probably going to be some hurt feelings in there, and there's going to be trial and error. And there's probably going to be some emotional reactivity. Because that's you know, we get tapped and we react. I mean, I especially like adhdrs like you get overstimulated, and you're like dude. Get out of my business, you know. 295 00:47:49.770 --> 00:47:50.250 Mo Holloman: Yeah. 296 00:47:50.250 --> 00:48:02.619 Leslie: So learning how to navigate it all like it's, it's not easy, but it's it's absolutely necessary. And so beautiful like. It's so beautiful to know that you can be like. 297 00:48:02.910 --> 00:48:07.500 Leslie: I know you care, even though right now I need to walk away 298 00:48:07.630 --> 00:48:10.520 Leslie: and like just figuring that out together. 299 00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:11.815 Mo Holloman: Hmm. 300 00:48:13.194 --> 00:48:14.160 Leslie: Oh! 301 00:48:14.160 --> 00:48:34.679 Mo Holloman: Always after something. He's here for comic relief. By the way, these ears I'm wearing tonight are in honor of Dexter. Speaking of dogs for my dog that I lost 3 weeks ago. These are doberman ears or bat ears. They kind of look like bat ears. But yeah, you know I. 302 00:48:35.150 --> 00:48:55.369 Mo Holloman: It is hard to ask, and it is awkward. And I think that's just the whole point of it all, especially to touch on the neurodivergence of it all like being a person who goes and tries to help someone who's not ready yet, and then they're like, I'm not ready. And then your feelings are hurting. You're like, Oh, my God! I can never talk to them again. Of course we get in our you know, all or nothing energy. 303 00:48:55.370 --> 00:49:15.029 Mo Holloman: And so we are doing it, ladies. We are doing it to all the folks, you know, who are joining us like, literally right now. So I just want everyone to like, really congratulate yourselves in this moment because you showed up because you want to be a part of what creates this impact in the world creates this this ripple effect. 304 00:49:15.030 --> 00:49:26.329 Mo Holloman: where we literally teach people how to do it, because we're practicing it. And we show people, and we give ourselves the space to fuck it up 305 00:49:26.330 --> 00:49:54.390 Mo Holloman: and get it weird. You know what I mean, like, it's okay. It's really okay, because the people who are for you, they're going to understand that you have a really good heart, and that you're there for them, and that you want to connect, and that you're having a hard time, right? Some people who are not as emotionally mature, or people who have not done the work or haven't experienced these things haven't explored it, you know. They may get it wrong, and it may be a little 306 00:49:54.540 --> 00:50:21.569 Mo Holloman: uncomfortable for your relationship. That's what's important about. You know why I love working with neurodivergent women, especially because everything about the way that our brain and heart works is really unique. And so really the best thing that I think that if we can take away from this conversation. Compassion for me is one of my life's greatest teachers. It was the hardest thing for me. Whenever I started working with a coach 307 00:50:21.570 --> 00:50:48.920 Mo Holloman: years ago I had worked with therapists that never taught me how to be compassionate with myself. Do you know what I mean? And so, being compassionate with yourself to not be perfect about it all, to not know how to do it. You know you're figuring this out as you go, and and you might grieve tomorrow in a different way than you grieved 2 years ago. You change all the time. Right? We're organic beings, it all evolves. And so I really really appreciate what you said, Leslie, about. 308 00:50:48.920 --> 00:51:08.910 Mo Holloman: you know, giving yourself the space, giving other people the space, knowing the ones to trust with your heart and your vulnerability, and to open up to those are the relationships that matter to you and just sorting it out and taking your time. And that really is beautiful. And we're literally doing it together. 309 00:51:08.910 --> 00:51:23.380 Mo Holloman: I would love to Leslie, open it up to. We had Leslie and I believe was next to share for just a moment. Here, Leslie, I'm gonna put you in the spotlight. Are you ready? Are you comfortable to share? You still want to talk? 310 00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:25.729 Mo Holloman: Leslie? Ann? 311 00:51:26.070 --> 00:51:31.420 Mo Holloman: Okay, cool. Yeah. Let me put you on the spotlight, and I'll unmute you. 312 00:51:33.570 --> 00:51:40.210 Leslie-Ann: Okay, I just want to start out. I've known Mo. And I've known Nicole 313 00:51:40.540 --> 00:51:47.949 Leslie-Ann: for a good long time. Now a minute. Back back when you were in Junior College. 314 00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:50.760 Mo Holloman: Yeah. It's been a minute. 315 00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:56.290 Leslie-Ann: Yeah, I wasn't. I was. I was a bit older than you guys, but that's okay. 316 00:51:58.050 --> 00:52:02.870 Leslie-Ann: But, Leslie, my my heart goes out to you. 317 00:52:03.646 --> 00:52:12.057 Leslie-Ann: I feel that pain. I'll try to make long story short, 318 00:52:14.010 --> 00:52:18.350 Leslie-Ann: I've been dealing with grief since I was 7 and a half. 319 00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:23.050 Leslie-Ann: I lost my big brother, my best friend. 320 00:52:23.290 --> 00:52:27.910 Leslie-Ann: He was murdered, and there are a lot of. 321 00:52:29.055 --> 00:52:29.930 Leslie: Unanswered. 322 00:52:30.030 --> 00:52:31.050 Leslie-Ann: Questions. 323 00:52:31.220 --> 00:52:33.970 Leslie-Ann: There will always be unanswered questions. 324 00:52:34.210 --> 00:52:40.679 Leslie-Ann: and I heard Leslie, you talking about talking there are times where? Well, when I was. 325 00:52:41.050 --> 00:52:44.930 Leslie-Ann: when it was still new and fresh. It was 7 and a half. 326 00:52:45.210 --> 00:52:50.330 Leslie-Ann: I'd go out on our property, and I would tell my big brother about my day 327 00:52:50.740 --> 00:52:52.420 Leslie-Ann: I'd sing songs to him. 328 00:52:52.650 --> 00:52:55.010 Leslie-Ann: I still find myself 329 00:52:55.240 --> 00:53:01.829 Leslie-Ann: talking to him and going. You know you'd be in your seventies now, because I'm in my fifties. 330 00:53:01.950 --> 00:53:04.060 Leslie-Ann: and it's like, Wow! 331 00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:13.360 Leslie-Ann: What would life been if you were still here? I you know I'd be an aunt, most likely you know all these different things. 332 00:53:13.690 --> 00:53:18.720 Leslie-Ann: and there are times where you suppress, and there are some times where you just 333 00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:22.309 Leslie-Ann: let those feelings take over you and and go with it. 334 00:53:22.993 --> 00:53:27.069 Leslie-Ann: I lost my mom in 2,010, 335 00:53:27.570 --> 00:53:37.570 Leslie-Ann: and that's oh, it's a hard thing. And I I mentioned about with a friend. Actually, he was my boss and my friend. He was my friend first, st and then my boss. 336 00:53:37.770 --> 00:53:48.799 Leslie-Ann: and like you, said Leslie, he didn't. Both of you said he didn't know how to to handle me. He was walking around on. He felt like he was walking around on eggshells 337 00:53:48.950 --> 00:53:51.590 Leslie-Ann: until he lost his own father. 338 00:53:51.910 --> 00:53:52.280 Leslie: Cool. 339 00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:59.330 Leslie-Ann: I don't want anybody. We all are going to end up joining the club, of losing our parents. 340 00:53:59.660 --> 00:54:00.050 Leslie: Nope. 341 00:54:00.050 --> 00:54:05.550 Leslie-Ann: Or losing siblings, or losing anybody who's 342 00:54:05.740 --> 00:54:15.430 Leslie-Ann: of the importance and value and worth in our lives. And until you've gone through it you you don't 343 00:54:15.430 --> 00:54:19.360 Leslie-Ann: what to say. It's it's the yeah like you were saying the comparison. 344 00:54:19.680 --> 00:54:22.579 Leslie-Ann: If only you know it's a good thing that 345 00:54:22.890 --> 00:54:26.600 Leslie-Ann: for me. I've learned when somebody has lost someone. 346 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:28.790 Leslie-Ann: I'm sorry for your loss. 347 00:54:29.120 --> 00:54:29.660 Leslie: Yeah, okay. 348 00:54:29.660 --> 00:54:32.799 Leslie-Ann: Give you a hug. What can I do for you? 349 00:54:34.358 --> 00:54:41.920 Leslie-Ann: Yes, I may say you know that person. I'm so thankful that that person is no longer in pain. 350 00:54:42.970 --> 00:54:48.719 Leslie-Ann: That's validating. That that person is gone. But it's not taking away 351 00:54:49.080 --> 00:54:54.389 Leslie-Ann: the fact that you're grieving that you've lost someone of value to you. 352 00:54:55.090 --> 00:55:02.810 Leslie-Ann: It's giving that honor that that life is no longer with us, and that's the other thing, people just 353 00:55:03.070 --> 00:55:09.270 Leslie-Ann: oh, it's flippant sayings, just a little flippant. Oh, you know, sorry for your loss, that type of thing. 354 00:55:09.600 --> 00:55:13.250 Leslie-Ann: but I'm 1 of those. That. 355 00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:15.660 Leslie: I wear my heart on my sleeve. 356 00:55:16.770 --> 00:55:18.290 Leslie-Ann: You're good bye! 357 00:55:18.700 --> 00:55:20.749 Mo Holloman: You're in very good company. 358 00:55:21.589 --> 00:55:27.170 Leslie-Ann: I tend to be one of the 1st ones to get upset 359 00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:31.170 Leslie-Ann: for somebody else. I'm a bit of an empath. 360 00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:32.610 Leslie: And. 361 00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:38.809 Leslie-Ann: It's hard. It's sometimes it's hard when you you're around somebody else, and getting that energy and 362 00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:44.689 Leslie-Ann: and wanting being grieving with them. But at the same time trying to shake that off 363 00:55:45.550 --> 00:55:51.620 Leslie-Ann: and be able to value the person, but also 364 00:55:51.900 --> 00:55:53.569 Leslie-Ann: live with your life as well. 365 00:55:53.720 --> 00:55:58.789 Leslie-Ann: And it's amazing the ebb and flow like I said. 366 00:55:59.540 --> 00:56:04.550 Leslie-Ann: I'll you know, lost my brother when I was 7 and a half. I'm going to be 52 this year. 367 00:56:05.050 --> 00:56:07.050 Leslie-Ann: It still grieves me. 368 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:07.930 Leslie: Yeah. 369 00:56:07.930 --> 00:56:13.619 Leslie-Ann: There, because there's, you know, something that happened. Somebody did something that's like, Oh. 370 00:56:14.700 --> 00:56:21.750 Leslie-Ann: that's Clay, that's my clay brother, and it just triggers it, or you know a phrase, or it's like, Oh, yeah. 371 00:56:22.340 --> 00:56:35.409 Leslie-Ann: my mom was big with animals. Didn't think we? I grew up. We called it the Zoo. We had so many different animals, and someone would ask me, oh, Leslie, and you know about animals. How would you deal with this? 372 00:56:35.860 --> 00:56:39.639 Leslie-Ann: And I go? You know what I know the perfect person to ask. 373 00:56:41.650 --> 00:56:43.939 Leslie-Ann: and I can't ask her if she's not there. 374 00:56:44.120 --> 00:56:44.870 Leslie: Yeah. 375 00:56:46.750 --> 00:56:47.350 Leslie-Ann: Those things. 376 00:56:47.350 --> 00:56:48.930 Mo Holloman: They do pop up. You're right. 377 00:56:48.930 --> 00:56:49.930 Leslie-Ann: They do? 378 00:56:49.930 --> 00:57:16.269 Mo Holloman: That's something that you know. Leslie and I talked a little bit about you know, when we had our little chat before, when all this was getting started, when all of this was coming together really is is all of those times. You know that that it pops up and and you revisit with maybe new parts or experience things that you've you've felt before, and and you have those times to to reconnect. Leslie. I 379 00:57:16.270 --> 00:57:28.700 Mo Holloman: gosh! I just want to say, Leslie Ann, since there's 2 Leslie's on the call. Thank you for sharing with this. You know us, and and thank you for being here today. I am so grateful for you. And 380 00:57:28.700 --> 00:57:46.169 Mo Holloman: you know our stories like I said, we're doing it. And so when we're talking about people who don't get it this space right now you're contributing to people getting it a lot more. So thank you for being here. Is there anything else you want to share before we pop back into our call with Leslie. 381 00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:50.739 Leslie-Ann: One other thing real quick, because most people don't think of this. 382 00:57:52.610 --> 00:57:56.609 Leslie-Ann: And I can go into detail those of you who've seen the joined I 383 00:57:56.720 --> 00:58:04.239 Leslie-Ann: kind of mentioned mentioned this 6 years ago. Long, very long story short. 384 00:58:04.590 --> 00:58:10.040 Leslie-Ann: I call myself. I'm a gunshot wound survivor. 385 00:58:11.540 --> 00:58:26.280 Leslie-Ann: And I'll go through that. But that was a bit of a grieving process, because when I was going being taken by ambulance to the hospital. One of the 1st things I asked the Emts 386 00:58:26.410 --> 00:58:30.590 Leslie-Ann: was not. Am I going to walk again? Am I going to dance again? 387 00:58:31.430 --> 00:58:31.880 Mo Holloman: Yeah. 388 00:58:31.880 --> 00:58:42.069 Leslie-Ann: I take dance classes. And so during that time frame of healing, I was grieving until I relearned how to walk. 389 00:58:45.090 --> 00:58:48.800 Leslie-Ann: And I don't wish that on anybody. 390 00:58:49.600 --> 00:58:57.690 Leslie-Ann: But again it that just opened my mind and open my heart to so many other things. 391 00:58:58.510 --> 00:59:02.489 Leslie-Ann: So the best thing I can say, even though the grieving hurts. 392 00:59:02.950 --> 00:59:05.280 Leslie-Ann: even though we don't want to deal with it. 393 00:59:05.410 --> 00:59:06.480 Leslie: Yes. 394 00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:16.970 Leslie-Ann: Like, Leslie said, take it, accept it, love it, grieve it, and know you're going to come out 395 00:59:17.230 --> 00:59:23.479 Leslie-Ann: better on the other side. It's never the same normal is ever the same. 396 00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:24.500 Mo Holloman: It's true. 397 00:59:24.500 --> 00:59:25.399 Leslie-Ann: New normal. 398 00:59:26.170 --> 00:59:27.520 Leslie-Ann: But you keep living. 399 00:59:27.730 --> 00:59:28.110 Leslie-Ann: Yeah. 400 00:59:28.110 --> 00:59:31.840 Leslie-Ann: And you keep learning, and you keep growing, and I'll leave it at that. 401 00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:55.389 Mo Holloman: Oh, my gosh, girl, thank you so much. That was good. That was a good way to end it. You know how to drop the mic. Thank you so much. I'm going to take you off of the spotlight. Here. We're going to return back, Leslie. We had a couple more people who wanted to share. Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to have time, because I do have a special guest. We're adding here at the very end, who has a grieving support group 402 00:59:55.390 --> 01:00:08.579 Mo Holloman: who is a friend to grief and to all of us, and she's 1 of our sisters in nice world detox. We've got about Leslie, me and you probably about I don't know. Like 5 to 6 min left. 403 01:00:08.850 --> 01:00:09.240 Leslie: Yeah. 404 01:00:09.530 --> 01:00:36.180 Mo Holloman: Open up the floor a little bit. I'll tell everybody. I'll share more about neurodivergent grief later. But but the big points here I really want you to take home is to meet your grief where it's at. Feel into your grief, and know that it doesn't have to look the same to everyone. It very rarely, very rarely, does Leslie here in our last few minutes. What do you feel like is the most important thing for us to 405 01:00:37.200 --> 01:00:42.010 Mo Holloman: to share in with you here. What? What do you feel like? You want to share with us? 406 01:00:42.713 --> 01:00:46.160 Leslie: Leslie Ann touched on it, and I'm Leslie Ann, too, so. 407 01:00:46.160 --> 01:00:48.320 Mo Holloman: Oh, my gosh! No way I. 408 01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:55.290 Leslie: And I other Leslie's in the Nice girl Detox group, which is the most amount of please I've ever been around in. 409 01:00:55.290 --> 01:00:58.578 Mo Holloman: It really is. A lot of Leslie's in. 410 01:01:01.060 --> 01:01:08.440 Leslie: one thing, Leslie, and touched on and mo. We talked about this in our kind of pre meeting that we had. 411 01:01:08.930 --> 01:01:22.620 Leslie: You get choices in life. We all get choices on how we're gonna handle things. You have a choice whether you are. Gonna roll over and let what happens to you beat the shit out of you and get better 412 01:01:23.540 --> 01:01:27.879 Leslie: angry, or you can choose to live. 413 01:01:28.060 --> 01:01:35.679 Leslie: And that is a very simple way to say something that is so profoundly complex 414 01:01:35.710 --> 01:01:59.180 Leslie: and hard. But I think for me we talked about honoring grief. That is the best way that I can honor Christian, and it's the best way that I can honor my dad, and it's the best way that I can honor anything that I've ever lost is to not let a single moment of this life go by that I am not trying 415 01:01:59.620 --> 01:02:07.890 Leslie: to shine my light and trying to give like the things that I feel like I've been blessed with or 416 01:02:08.540 --> 01:02:13.840 Leslie: made up of as a human give back to the world because I do think 417 01:02:14.570 --> 01:02:17.579 Leslie: Christian changed who I was as a person. 418 01:02:17.720 --> 01:02:35.140 Leslie: My Dad raised me like the best thing I can do. To honor them is be the very best version of myself I can be and give back, and and I'm not like being preachy about this at all. I am. I am saying, every single one of you. 419 01:02:35.410 --> 01:03:00.239 Leslie: You matter, and you are so needed. Your perspective is needed. What grief has taught you, what you are walking through, the the strength that you have acquired in your story, the the tenacity and the grit that like we as women like, just, you know, like we get like beat over those rocks. But then, like you become this like 420 01:03:00.350 --> 01:03:26.260 Leslie: stone that is just like, you know, so beautiful and smooth, and like all of the different, like the layers of life that's in there that is needed. We are needed that light that we all have. It is needed, and it is earned. It is earned the wisdom, the perspective, like. I'm sure everybody in here has a gaping heart like we've got those big old hearts on our sleeves 421 01:03:26.260 --> 01:03:32.039 Leslie: that is needed in this world. It is needed. People need to see 422 01:03:32.320 --> 01:03:40.209 Leslie: strong women that have soft, broken hearts over things like they need to see. Strength is 423 01:03:40.210 --> 01:04:10.150 Leslie: soft strength and tenacity and fierceness is also broken and sad, and sometimes, like, I just want to set the world on fire because I'm angry that Christian's not here, or that my dad's not here. But you know what I'm going to do. I'm not going to choose anger, and I'm not going to choose bitterness, and I'm not going to be mad and destructive, and try and like, be a dragon that breathes fire on everything. I'm going to be a phoenix. 424 01:04:10.460 --> 01:04:16.630 Leslie: and I'm going to rise from the ashes, and I'm going to figure out how to honor them 425 01:04:16.650 --> 01:04:45.369 Leslie: and how to honor myself in this world, and I think that that is the boldness and grieving is that you're a part of this grief story. It's not just who you lost, it's who they contributed to. It's what they contributed to you. Christian carved such a uniqueness inside of me like he changed me. I am so inspired by the human being that he was. There is no one on the earth like him. 426 01:04:45.730 --> 01:04:55.770 Leslie: my dad, like just the best human ever, and I will go forward in life, and I will be somebody and do something 427 01:04:55.920 --> 01:05:01.299 Leslie: because of who they were, because like that just gives me strength. And 428 01:05:02.040 --> 01:05:14.493 Leslie: and at the end of the day, when I sit and I also talk to them. Because I I truly believe they're doing great. You know they're just not here, and that sucks 429 01:05:15.170 --> 01:05:19.040 Leslie: But when I sit and I breathe, I think, man. 430 01:05:19.300 --> 01:05:24.650 Leslie: it is the honor of my life to keep living 431 01:05:24.930 --> 01:05:37.819 Leslie: to make you proud like that is just how I feel at the core of who I am as a human, and we all have our different grief stories. We all have the different things that power us that move us to our core, that break us. 432 01:05:39.560 --> 01:05:49.090 Leslie: But I think not. Forgetting yourself in the process like grief, can literally like swallow you whole. 433 01:05:49.240 --> 01:05:50.780 Leslie: And it is about 434 01:05:51.150 --> 01:06:03.980 Leslie: learning how to form a sacred relationship with that. Like Leslie Ann said, it is. It is something that is to be honored and to find that relationship that like, it's positive 435 01:06:04.090 --> 01:06:23.109 Leslie: and it's honoring, and it's a release. And it's not swallowing us. And I think, as women, we get swallowed up a lot, there's just a lot of things that can swallow a soul, especially if you're neurodivergent like, you know, we just bottle, and we like take so much into our body. 436 01:06:23.270 --> 01:06:47.340 Leslie: And however you do it, if you want to go, sit outside and let the wind hit you and just feel you know the world around you, and release and cry, or you need to scream, you know, like you need to get very visceral, or you need to write letters to people, or you need to be angry and like, break something like, honor yourself. 437 01:06:47.540 --> 01:06:57.509 Leslie: honor yourself like you deserve that, and we we have to like to be in our power. We have to honor ourselves in these feelings. 438 01:06:58.520 --> 01:06:59.500 Mo Holloman: Hmm! 439 01:06:59.680 --> 01:07:27.620 Mo Holloman: We have to honor ourselves in these feelings, and and what you said earlier, this grief is powerful. We have the opportunity to channel. This energy in motion, in a way that serves us serves the world serves the purpose we feel connected to wield that shit. You know what I mean that is yours right? I love what you said, Leslie. I am so grateful. You're here. 440 01:07:27.927 --> 01:07:38.979 Mo Holloman: I'm gonna bring up Sal here in in just a moment with us. Are you cool to hang out with me and Sal for just just a few as let me see, is Sal still 441 01:07:38.980 --> 01:08:03.289 Mo Holloman: there she is there she is. Okay. I'm going to pull Sal up. We're going to hear from Sal a little bit about her Grief group. We're closing in on the last couple of minutes of this call. Anything you want to share in the comments, please add, and then I'm going to give you your dare. For the month after this before we close out, so I'm adding you to the spotlight. Sal. Oh, my gosh! I love you! Wish I could give you a big hug. Right now. This is someone 442 01:08:03.290 --> 01:08:05.790 Mo Holloman: who, when I talk about a soul, sister. 443 01:08:05.820 --> 01:08:08.639 Mo Holloman: please, the floor is yours. Queen. 444 01:08:08.900 --> 01:08:20.177 Sal Stevens: Well, Hello, so I am, Sal. I have a group on Facebook. It's called giggling through grief. I started it because 445 01:08:21.430 --> 01:08:49.560 Sal Stevens: well, basically, I've had a lifetime relationship with grief that if anybody wants to know about it you can. The whole story is out there on the interwebs. But it's always kind of played a part, and there are so many like Leslie was talking about having a container for it, or speaking daily, like one of the activities that I speak about in this group is having a grief space where we can go every day 446 01:08:49.560 --> 01:09:00.219 Sal Stevens: to allow grief to be part of our world where it isn't shoved down in a closet, because all those feelings exist, and knowing that we can 447 01:09:00.250 --> 01:09:04.730 Sal Stevens: hold our happiness and our trauma 448 01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:11.220 Sal Stevens: at the same time and kind of walk hand in hand with them, and not 449 01:09:11.380 --> 01:09:23.759 Sal Stevens: not have to shy away from one side or another like you can smile, even though you know. Sometimes we always hear it's okay to not be okay. But it's also okay to be okay. 450 01:09:23.920 --> 01:09:34.149 Sal Stevens: And there are so many times, you know, I lost my partner, my mom, within a 2 week span of each other one year, shortly after losing a best friend, and 451 01:09:34.270 --> 01:09:44.599 Sal Stevens: I would still be the person sometimes who'd be like, oh, you're laughing too loud, or nobody wants to hear you be happy, and it's like, now's not a time to be happy, but you know, we get to the thing about 452 01:09:44.899 --> 01:09:50.789 Sal Stevens: life and feelings. Are we get to feel any of them at any time like we can 453 01:09:51.000 --> 01:10:01.350 Sal Stevens: really sit down and decide. You know, if you get excited about opening a present, you can feel all that happiness, and it can. It can come to you 454 01:10:01.610 --> 01:10:20.040 Sal Stevens: at any time and unexpectedly, but sometimes we feel like we need to have permission for each of our feelings like we can only get excited. If a holiday is coming up. We can only feel this if this thing is coming up, and we tie so many things of our lives to, to all these 455 01:10:20.260 --> 01:10:31.180 Sal Stevens: parts outside of us, and through a lot of meditation and breath work and and healing, and found that when we tie those things to 456 01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:59.909 Sal Stevens: to something solid or to what's inside when we become our own peace and our own calm in this storm? It doesn't mean that horrid things don't come about and happen in life. It just means that we're more anchored and able to deal with them and to step forward as our best selves to make decisions going through life based in love and not based in fear. 457 01:10:59.910 --> 01:11:00.840 Mo Holloman: Hmm. 458 01:11:01.229 --> 01:11:10.959 Sal Stevens: That. That's what the the group is about. And I'm working on a journal that's kind of like the story of my life. But also 459 01:11:11.070 --> 01:11:29.519 Sal Stevens: each each part has all the things that have helped me. There are bits of breath work and mantras and drum movements and free writing, and just just all the all the things and a space to hold all, all the different feelings. 460 01:11:30.540 --> 01:11:58.489 Mo Holloman: I posted your group in the chat, so if anyone would like to check out giggling through grief, Sal is a healer. Among many other things that you should know. And if you're in the nice girl Detox group on Facebook, then you know, you get to hang out with Sal. She's really here, and she's got her back. So, Sal, thank you so much for sharing, and if you'd like to add anything in the chat, go ahead. But then also post in the group about it, too. But I'll share it in the notes. I'm actually going to make a note right now to do that. 461 01:11:58.500 --> 01:12:00.650 Mo Holloman: Thank you so much for sharing. 462 01:12:02.050 --> 01:12:02.600 Mo Holloman: Okay. 463 01:12:02.600 --> 01:12:03.629 Sal Stevens: Thank you. 464 01:12:04.750 --> 01:12:10.839 Mo Holloman: Leslie, is there anything else you want to share before I I haven't even told you about our challenge yet. 465 01:12:11.190 --> 01:12:12.090 Leslie: No. 466 01:12:12.090 --> 01:12:15.049 Mo Holloman: Do you guys want to hear it? Are you ready? This is your challenge for the month. 467 01:12:15.280 --> 01:12:24.780 Mo Holloman: So this is called the one sentence truth. All you have to do, and and my my challenge to you is to post it in the Facebook group anonymously. 468 01:12:24.940 --> 01:12:37.280 Mo Holloman: One of the reasons I say anonymously, is because I really want you to say everything you want to say without feeling like it'll get tracked back to you. So the idea is to start the sentence with what I never said was. 469 01:12:37.750 --> 01:12:52.639 Mo Holloman: and then finish it. This can be anything this can be like. We've talked about identities, things that never were realized about your life people that you've had in your life, maybe relationships that you've lost 470 01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:59.809 Mo Holloman: anything at all. The the dare for you is one sentence truth, I'll repeat it just one more time. 471 01:13:00.140 --> 01:13:17.429 Mo Holloman: Start the whole sentence with what I never said was, and then post from there. So post anonymously, if you don't want to post anonymously. And you're like, I just want to do this on my own. You can put it in a journal if you don't want anyone to ever see this burn it. I like to write my grittiest, weirdest. 472 01:13:17.430 --> 01:13:17.990 Leslie: Yeah. 473 01:13:17.990 --> 01:13:26.278 Mo Holloman: Wild as shit and then burn it so no one can ever find it. You know that part of me that gets a little paranoid. 474 01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:31.909 Mo Holloman: okay, so that's everything. How do you feel about that? Is there anything you'd like to add, Leslie, you feel like that's good. 475 01:13:32.680 --> 01:13:39.279 Leslie: Yeah, I think that that's good. And you know, this is an ongoing conversation like we are 476 01:13:39.490 --> 01:13:44.930 Leslie: trying to find a way collectively and just like Sal's group 477 01:13:45.870 --> 01:14:10.749 Leslie: to support each other in the in just this lifetime of grief, because it is a lifetime of grief like both, you know, smaller transitions to life's really big losses and and changes, and I think, like it's an ongoing conversation that I'm I'm sure so many of you have such profound things to add, and I'm 478 01:14:10.750 --> 01:14:24.319 Leslie: I'm just very fortunate to be in a time where women are talking openly about how to be safe, how to be supporters of each other how to be 479 01:14:24.460 --> 01:14:30.050 Leslie: powerful without being competitive, like, you know, it's it's just a really cool time 480 01:14:30.210 --> 01:14:43.010 Leslie: to be in where we are like growing. And you know everyone gets to shine their light and be strong and be loud and be bold, and I'm just. I'm thankful, and I'm proud to be here. 481 01:14:43.150 --> 01:15:02.059 Mo Holloman: I'm thankful, and I'm proud that you're here, and I'm honored that you shared with us everyone who's on the call tonight. I'm honored that you're here, everyone listening to the podcast or watching on Youtube later. Thank you for being a part of this, you're contributing to something earlier. And I really really mean this, you know, nice girl, detox. This is all about 482 01:15:02.080 --> 01:15:14.570 Mo Holloman: unraveling good girl, syndrome from our lives, and really claiming the space we have to be exactly who the fuck we are, exactly how we feel all of the muchness 483 01:15:14.670 --> 01:15:37.299 Mo Holloman: tonight. You showed up for yourself in a world that doesn't always feel like it allows you to. And so, whether you spoke, and I'm sorry if you didn't get to share tonight, you'll get to share in the next one. We'll bump you to it if you cried tonight with us, or if you just held space for others and you participated tonight, you know you're a part of bold grieving, and that's very sacred to me. 484 01:15:37.300 --> 01:16:03.710 Mo Holloman: So thank you for that, you know, for those of you who are just meeting me. I'm Mo Holloman. I am an Adhd coach for queens with Adhd. I am the founder of nice girl, Detox and main character coach, like I said. This episode will be uploaded in nice girl detox community. You'll have all the access if you want to stay in the loop on future calls. Let me have your email. So shoot me a message on here or in the Facebook group. 485 01:16:04.170 --> 01:16:31.770 Mo Holloman: This is where we post all the dares and all the fun things we were talking about. This is like a really cute group chat that we have going where we also go. Really motherfucking deep, you know. So if that sounds like your vibe come, hang out! You're not grieving wrong. You're grieving in a body and in a system that hasn't always really taught us how right. But now we're making the map together, and so I thank you for that. Thank you for being here, and wherever we see you next. 486 01:16:31.770 --> 01:16:35.520 Mo Holloman: I'm just sending you so much love. Thank you all so much for being here tonight. 487 01:16:37.210 --> 01:16:40.970 Mo Holloman: and I'm gonna hang out till everybody leaves 488 01:16:42.780 --> 01:16:49.670 Mo Holloman: Leslie. Thank you, Jackie, for saying that I'm the best that was really nice. Thank you, Amy. I love you being right back. 489 01:16:50.310 --> 01:16:55.010 Mo Holloman: Leslie Ann. Yes, I'm in agreement with what Sal talked about. 490 01:16:55.940 --> 01:17:06.190 Mo Holloman: Yeah, I don't know what it is about me not wanting people to read my writing. I just get this paranoid feeling, but I still write it anyway. So that was my little hack is. I'll just burn everything, I think, gets a little weird. 491 01:17:06.410 --> 01:17:15.589 Leslie: I don't really burn much anymore. So you know, it's pretty weird. If I burn in, Jamie. Thank you for being here. Jamie Strickland. 492 01:17:16.980 --> 01:17:23.019 Mo Holloman: Thank you, Bree, for being here. Michelle Steverson. Gosh! I love to see you tonight. Congrats to your daughter again. 493 01:17:23.160 --> 01:17:26.859 Mo Holloman: and to you. We know you earn that degree as much as she did. 494 01:17:30.550 --> 01:17:32.099 Mo Holloman: See you, girl.