WEBVTT 00:00:15.179 --> 00:00:18.079 Hey everyone, welcome to Seneca Lake Mysteries, 00:00:18.219 --> 00:00:21.780 the podcast where we explore the unusual, strange, 00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:24.839 and unexplained on New York's largest Finger 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:27.940 Lake. Thanks so much for listening. Before I 00:00:27.940 --> 00:00:32.679 get to my guest and the on location episode I 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:36.479 recorded for this time around, I first want to... 00:00:36.329 --> 00:00:40.649 talk about. Last episode I did a segment on companies 00:00:40.649 --> 00:00:43.950 in the Seneca Lake area who produce wines, ciders, 00:00:44.189 --> 00:00:47.149 beers, and spirits that celebrate the mysteries 00:00:47.149 --> 00:00:50.409 of Seneca Lake. So quickly this time I want to 00:00:50.409 --> 00:00:53.390 give another shout out to a local group that 00:00:53.390 --> 00:00:56.250 also acknowledges one of the Seneca League mysteries 00:00:56.250 --> 00:00:59.810 in a big way. It's a box lacrosse team that plays 00:00:59.810 --> 00:01:02.929 in the North American Box Lacrosse League, the 00:01:02.929 --> 00:01:06.010 NABLL. And for those who don't know, box lacrosse 00:01:06.010 --> 00:01:09.549 is the indoor version of field lacrosse played 00:01:09.549 --> 00:01:13.730 in hockey rinks and similar smaller venues. The 00:01:13.730 --> 00:01:17.890 NABLL is a semi -pro league, meaning that many 00:01:17.890 --> 00:01:21.239 of the players are paid little if at all. There's 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:24.900 currently 40 teams across the country in 10 different 00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:29.379 regions with three to five teams per region and 00:01:29.379 --> 00:01:31.400 the way it works, they play the regular season 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:33.939 in the summer and then the champions of each 00:01:33.939 --> 00:01:37.280 region travel to one location for the playoffs 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:41.879 and they crown the league champion. The teams 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:45.280 are really powered and funded by local businesses 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.799 and communities. with a strong emphasis on growing 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:52.019 the sport of box lacrosse. So there's a real 00:01:52.019 --> 00:01:55.620 kind of DIY spirit that I love. And you get to 00:01:55.620 --> 00:01:58.400 see some really talented players on these teams 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:02.340 from college age on up. So back in the summer 00:02:02.340 --> 00:02:07.060 of 2024, a new NABLL team began playing in Geneva 00:02:07.060 --> 00:02:10.500 at the Geneva Rec Center. And that team is called 00:02:10.500 --> 00:02:13.659 the Seneca Lake Serpents. And of course, there's 00:02:13.659 --> 00:02:17.680 a few reasons why I love this. Number one, sports 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.819 teams are usually thought to play for their communities. 00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:24.319 So the Boston Red Sox are representing the Boston 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:27.180 community. The Chicago Bears play for the people 00:02:27.180 --> 00:02:30.500 of Chicago, et cetera. So I guess this means 00:02:30.500 --> 00:02:33.219 that the Seneca Lake Serpents are playing for 00:02:33.219 --> 00:02:35.699 the people of Seneca Lake. And that's got to 00:02:35.699 --> 00:02:38.780 be pretty rare for a team to name their home 00:02:38.780 --> 00:02:43.590 as a landscape feature. the serpents are Seneca 00:02:43.590 --> 00:02:47.050 Lake's team. And second reason, obviously the 00:02:47.050 --> 00:02:50.569 name, it's so cool to see the Seneca Lake monster 00:02:50.569 --> 00:02:53.830 slash Seneca Lake serpent legend being acknowledged 00:02:53.830 --> 00:02:57.949 and celebrated. And of course, finally, the game 00:02:57.949 --> 00:03:01.069 of lacrosse is known as the medicine game by 00:03:01.069 --> 00:03:04.949 native people. It's the belief that lacrosse 00:03:04.949 --> 00:03:08.069 is more than just a sport. It's a sacred practice 00:03:08.069 --> 00:03:13.099 that is healing and holds deep spiritual importance 00:03:13.099 --> 00:03:17.960 and it's seen as a gift from the creator used 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:23.800 to restore balance and uh well -being in the 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:27.360 individuals and communities that play so the 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:32.139 2025 season for the serpents begins on june 14th 00:03:32.139 --> 00:03:35.139 saturday with a 5 p .m home game at the geneva 00:03:35.139 --> 00:03:40.280 rec center at 666 exchange street in geneva versus 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:44.419 another team with a cryptid -related name, the 00:03:44.419 --> 00:03:48.199 Utica Yeti. So if you want to see an exciting, 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:52.939 hard -hitting, fast -paced sport played by guys 00:03:52.939 --> 00:03:56.699 who truly love the game, then get yourself over 00:03:56.699 --> 00:03:59.039 to the Rec Center for the game, and I'll put 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:01.280 a link in the description to the Seneca Lake 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:04.680 Serpents Instagram, which is at Seneca Lake Serpents 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:08.740 LC. So I am very excited for this episode. For 00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:11.800 this time around, I met up with Soraya Azkath, 00:04:12.020 --> 00:04:16.100 who's the host of the Where Did the Road Go podcast, 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:18.899 and also the last Exit for the Lost Underground 00:04:18.899 --> 00:04:22.120 music podcast. And we met up at the cemetery 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:25.839 for the former Willard State Hospital, aka the 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:28.680 Willard Asylum. So I was a guest on Soraya's 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:31.240 podcast recently, which we recorded at the foot 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:34.899 of the hill below the cemetery. So this time, 00:04:35.100 --> 00:04:37.600 for the first episode that I'm going to do about 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:42.180 Willard, we met up the hill in the cemetery on 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:46.680 a beautiful sunny June evening. Now Willard Cemetery 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.019 is an unusual place and Saraya has a lot to tell 00:04:51.019 --> 00:04:53.180 us about it because as a teenager growing up 00:04:53.180 --> 00:04:56.199 in the area he and his friends spent hours and 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.199 hours hanging around there and as a fellow upstate 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.139 New Yorker who grew up in a rural area I can 00:05:02.139 --> 00:05:04.819 definitely relate to being a teen and finding 00:05:04.819 --> 00:05:09.139 a somewhat hidden or rarely visited spot to while 00:05:09.139 --> 00:05:11.699 away the hours away from the grown -ups while 00:05:11.699 --> 00:05:16.629 being a kid and with Soraya's many hours spent 00:05:16.629 --> 00:05:20.209 in the Willard Cemetery come a whole slew of 00:05:20.209 --> 00:05:23.310 incredible, high -strangeness experiences that 00:05:23.310 --> 00:05:26.129 he was happy to share with me and all of you 00:05:26.129 --> 00:05:29.769 as we sat in the corner of the cemetery. We ended 00:05:29.769 --> 00:05:33.230 up speaking for a long time, so much time that 00:05:33.230 --> 00:05:36.250 I separated the interview into two parts which 00:05:36.250 --> 00:05:40.110 are close to an hour each. So this is only part 00:05:40.110 --> 00:05:44.060 one. Part two will be in the next episode. I 00:05:44.060 --> 00:05:45.699 also want to tell a little story of what happened 00:05:45.699 --> 00:05:50.199 when I arrived there. So I pulled up to the parking 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:53.079 area at the bottom of the hill next to the cemetery 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:55.639 and there was a large pickup truck there with 00:05:55.639 --> 00:06:00.459 a flatbed behind it. It looked like it was a 00:06:00.459 --> 00:06:03.300 landscaping company. So as soon as I pulled up 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:06.480 I started thinking, are they mowing this cemetery 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:10.600 up here? Got out of my car and off in the distance 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.839 I could hear the sound of a mower. And I thought 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:17.019 to myself, oh, just this is just perfect. We 00:06:17.019 --> 00:06:20.480 the one day that we picked to visit this cemetery 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:24.279 is the day that they're mowing this big 15 acre 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.519 cemetery. I wasn't sure if we were going to be 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:30.120 able to do the podcast. I wasn't sure how far 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.220 along he was with the mowing. So I walked up 00:06:33.220 --> 00:06:36.560 the hill and took a look and I saw that there 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:40.439 was a guy on the big mower off one of the towards 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.610 the further end of the cemetery. And it looked 00:06:43.610 --> 00:06:45.730 like he was almost completed with the whole place. 00:06:45.850 --> 00:06:48.529 So I figured, well, he should be finishing up 00:06:48.529 --> 00:06:50.709 soon. I got there a little early. I was meeting 00:06:50.709 --> 00:06:52.970 Sarai at six. I got there around five thirty. 00:06:53.029 --> 00:06:56.670 So I grabbed the equipment, a couple of chairs 00:06:56.670 --> 00:07:00.870 and set up a spot to record the podcast. Now, 00:07:00.970 --> 00:07:05.490 as I right after I finished setting up, the lawnmower 00:07:05.490 --> 00:07:08.550 started coming toward me. The guy driving it 00:07:08.550 --> 00:07:12.500 was was coming over to. See what I was doing. 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:15.399 I wasn't sure why he was coming over. So as he's 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:17.699 coming over he was taking pictures with his phone 00:07:17.699 --> 00:07:21.620 and then and then pulled up next to me and shut 00:07:21.620 --> 00:07:25.779 off the engine and Just started chatting, you 00:07:25.779 --> 00:07:28.060 know He was telling me I asked him how long he 00:07:28.060 --> 00:07:30.759 was there mowing and he said that he had started 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:33.620 mowing at about seven o 'clock that morning He 00:07:33.620 --> 00:07:35.980 asked me if I was a photographer what I was doing 00:07:35.980 --> 00:07:37.920 there I told him no we're recording a podcast 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:40.529 and he told me that His wife was really interested 00:07:40.529 --> 00:07:42.089 in this place and she was asking him to take 00:07:42.089 --> 00:07:45.769 pictures while he was here. And he asked me, 00:07:45.850 --> 00:07:47.529 what do you know about this cemetery? Do you 00:07:47.529 --> 00:07:50.149 know anything about it? And I said, as a matter 00:07:50.149 --> 00:07:52.850 of fact, I do. I'm here to do a podcast about 00:07:52.850 --> 00:07:55.649 it. And I told them about the history of the 00:07:55.649 --> 00:07:59.410 cemetery. And then we're chatting a little bit 00:07:59.410 --> 00:08:02.689 more. And he mentioned, it's so hot. I'm so hot 00:08:02.689 --> 00:08:04.750 right now. I could go jump in that lake. And 00:08:04.750 --> 00:08:07.379 then he asked me, isn't that lake really deep 00:08:07.379 --> 00:08:08.879 or something. Do you know anything about the 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.759 lake? Well, as a matter of fact, I do. And I 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.319 told him how it was, uh, you know, the deepest 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:17.860 lake east of the Mississippi, not including the 00:08:17.860 --> 00:08:20.399 Great Lakes. And then we just started chatting 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:23.399 a little bit more. He was talking about, we were 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:25.819 just talking about getting older and how fast 00:08:25.819 --> 00:08:28.639 it goes by and how, how in your head you can 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:32.000 still feel like it was years ago and, and how 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.519 memories stay with you. And And then out of nowhere, 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:37.279 he brought up, he said, you know that there's 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:40.000 some kind of physics like quantum theory or something 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.340 that that time isn't even real, that it doesn't 00:08:43.340 --> 00:08:45.940 even exist. He's like, I think I might believe 00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:49.039 in that. What about you? Well, as a matter of 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:53.659 fact, I do. I was kind of kind of surprised that 00:08:53.659 --> 00:08:57.399 I, you know, this guy came over on a on the lawnmower 00:08:57.399 --> 00:09:00.320 and I wasn't expecting to start talking about 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:04.100 whether time is real or not with him. So it was 00:09:04.100 --> 00:09:06.200 really cool. And then we chatted a little bit 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:09.580 more. He told me some stuff about his own personal 00:09:09.580 --> 00:09:12.440 spiritual beliefs and journey, and I'm not going 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:15.679 to get into that stuff here. So he said his name 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.980 was Randy and he said he had one small spot to 00:09:18.980 --> 00:09:22.059 finish mowing. And so he finished up that little 00:09:22.059 --> 00:09:25.620 bit and said good night to me. And he left just 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:30.669 a few minutes before Saraya arrived. Soraya got 00:09:30.669 --> 00:09:33.269 there. We sat down. We got ready started recording 00:09:33.269 --> 00:09:36.669 the podcast and after about 15 minutes or so 00:09:36.669 --> 00:09:40.190 we heard long weird Lawnmower or something coming 00:09:40.190 --> 00:09:41.730 up the hill and we turned around it was actually 00:09:41.730 --> 00:09:44.269 the pickup truck he was he came back up the hill 00:09:44.269 --> 00:09:48.690 in his truck with the flatbed on in the mower 00:09:48.690 --> 00:09:52.230 on the back and told us that he had dropped his 00:09:52.230 --> 00:09:57.029 phone while he was speaking with me and so So 00:09:57.029 --> 00:09:59.220 I ended up you can you can hear the edit point 00:09:59.220 --> 00:10:01.740 where I edit the podcast because we we stopped 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:04.620 for a few minutes and Soraya called his phone 00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:07.340 helped him find his phone and then he took off 00:10:07.340 --> 00:10:11.519 so that was a it was a really really cool and 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:15.419 interesting encounter and so shout out to Randy 00:10:15.419 --> 00:10:17.740 I don't know if he's listening to this or not 00:10:17.740 --> 00:10:22.259 but I I really appreciated our our chat so um 00:10:22.259 --> 00:10:27.049 so let's get into it Soraya is like I mentioned 00:10:27.049 --> 00:10:30.169 he's host of where did the road go? Which is 00:10:30.169 --> 00:10:34.370 a podcast that deals with the unexplained fringe 00:10:34.370 --> 00:10:36.509 subjects that kind of stuff It's a great great 00:10:36.509 --> 00:10:39.129 show and you could find everything you need to 00:10:39.129 --> 00:10:43.450 know about Soraya at his website For that podcast 00:10:43.450 --> 00:10:47.149 called where did the road go calm and on that 00:10:47.149 --> 00:10:49.289 website? There's a link tree so you can find 00:10:49.289 --> 00:10:54.210 all of his work his photography music shows YouTube 00:10:54.210 --> 00:10:57.590 channel, social media, and everything else. So 00:10:57.590 --> 00:11:00.409 make sure you go and check out everything that 00:11:00.409 --> 00:11:03.309 Sarai is doing. And remember, this is just the 00:11:03.309 --> 00:11:07.429 first half of the interview conversation, and 00:11:07.429 --> 00:11:10.409 make sure you tune in next time. And as always, 00:11:10.929 --> 00:11:13.710 if you like the show, please subscribe and follow 00:11:13.710 --> 00:11:17.350 me everywhere. You can find everything at SenecaLakeMysteries 00:11:17.350 --> 00:11:20.509 .com. Also, you can reach out to me anytime with 00:11:20.509 --> 00:11:24.220 comments, suggestions. Stories anything else 00:11:24.220 --> 00:11:27.139 by sending an email to podcast at Seneca Lake 00:11:27.139 --> 00:11:30.740 mysteries .com or by calling and leaving a voicemail 00:11:30.740 --> 00:11:37.039 at six zero seven three zero seven one one six 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:41.000 seven, so thanks again for listening and Thanks 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.960 again to Soraya for an incredible conversation. 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:52.509 So let's get to it Well, thank you for having 00:11:52.509 --> 00:11:54.769 me on. Hey, thanks for being here. I enjoyed 00:11:54.769 --> 00:11:58.710 our last talk. Yeah, me too. And it was nicer 00:11:58.710 --> 00:12:02.549 today. Oh, this is it's perfect. I think tomorrow's 00:12:02.549 --> 00:12:04.190 supposed to be a scorcher. So I'm glad we got 00:12:04.190 --> 00:12:07.250 this one in today. And when I when I arrived 00:12:07.250 --> 00:12:11.269 here, there was a guy mowing this place and to 00:12:11.269 --> 00:12:13.190 and to mow this place like he was here from seven 00:12:13.190 --> 00:12:15.309 in the morning. And now it's after six o 'clock 00:12:15.309 --> 00:12:17.769 at night. But it was perfect timing because when 00:12:17.769 --> 00:12:19.850 I came up, I heard the mower. I'm like, oh, no. 00:12:20.570 --> 00:12:25.669 I was worried about something like that But uh, 00:12:25.870 --> 00:12:29.990 but The mowing got done I got to talk to Randy 00:12:29.990 --> 00:12:32.389 the mower if you're listening Randy, thanks for 00:12:32.389 --> 00:12:36.110 thanks for stopping and talking to me So let's 00:12:36.110 --> 00:12:39.070 get into it where I haven't done an episode yet. 00:12:39.190 --> 00:12:43.269 Well, actually let's get into this first Soraya, 00:12:43.389 --> 00:12:48.000 yeah, you're You're the host of lacks last the 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.259 last exit for the last exit for the lost for 00:12:51.259 --> 00:12:57.659 Today as of today 31 years 31 years Yes And just 00:12:57.659 --> 00:13:00.429 tell people a little bit about that show That 00:13:00.429 --> 00:13:02.750 is an underground music show, so it's mostly 00:13:02.750 --> 00:13:04.710 heavier stuff, but it's not only metal, it's 00:13:04.710 --> 00:13:06.830 punk, it's hardcore, it's industrial, it's gothic 00:13:06.830 --> 00:13:08.389 stuff, but it's stuff you're not going to hear 00:13:08.389 --> 00:13:11.730 anywhere else. So we generally move away from 00:13:11.730 --> 00:13:14.990 the big name bands and try to focus on the stuff 00:13:14.990 --> 00:13:18.830 that's smaller, local bands, things like that, 00:13:19.169 --> 00:13:21.570 and obscure old stuff that you may not have heard. 00:13:22.950 --> 00:13:25.570 So we do live performances of bands, we have 00:13:25.570 --> 00:13:29.659 a performance space. Yeah, we do a lot. Yeah. 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:31.860 The last exit dot org is the website. If anyone 00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:34.879 wants to check it out shows are archived sporadically 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:39.240 all the way back to 1996. Wow. Yeah. So you I 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.860 mean, you've been at that for a while. You're 00:13:41.860 --> 00:13:45.559 a bit of a institution here in the in the Finger 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:50.879 Lakes area. And I love the idea that it's it's 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:53.940 Just a passion of yours that you put all this 00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:57.340 energy and all this love into and I'm sure you've 00:13:57.340 --> 00:14:01.120 helped so many bands and Turned people on to 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.759 so much good music and hope so and that's uh, 00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:08.039 that's awesome. And then At some point you started 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:11.179 doing your second show where did the road where 00:14:11.179 --> 00:14:13.580 did the road go? That was in that was January 00:14:13.580 --> 00:14:19.419 26 2013 2013 I I had heard other, I was starting 00:14:19.419 --> 00:14:22.480 to listen to other podcasts. I generally, the 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.139 story I basically put in a nutshell, I didn't 00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:27.539 like talk radio. I didn't like talk radio because 00:14:27.539 --> 00:14:30.720 my dad listened to Rush Limbaugh nonstop. And 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.820 it drove me crazy. Graham Hancock had posted 00:14:33.820 --> 00:14:35.220 that he was going to be on Coast to Coast and 00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:38.120 I'm like, oh, I kind of want to hear Graham Hancock. 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:40.200 And I figured I wouldn't listen to all of it 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:42.000 because I don't like talk radio. But then I listened 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:43.419 to all of it and I was like, that was great. 00:14:44.109 --> 00:14:46.789 What else is out there? And so I started looking 00:14:46.789 --> 00:14:48.529 for shows he was on and then I started looking 00:14:48.529 --> 00:14:50.830 for other people I was interested in like Robert 00:14:50.830 --> 00:14:53.590 Schock and stuff and at some point someone was 00:14:53.590 --> 00:14:56.870 interviewing Jesse Ventura Oh and Robert Schock 00:14:56.870 --> 00:14:58.210 same person interviewed Robert Schock didn't 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:00.850 know anything about them Wasn't paying attention 00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:02.669 to the stuff Jesse Ventura was saying and I said 00:15:02.669 --> 00:15:04.830 why does this person get to talk to these people? 00:15:05.230 --> 00:15:07.210 I want to talk to these people and I know their 00:15:07.210 --> 00:15:10.580 stuff, you know, yeah, and so I Didn't think 00:15:10.580 --> 00:15:13.320 of it as a podcast. I just I'm like I haven't 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.159 read we have an hour free on WVBR Maybe they'll 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:18.659 let me have it and initially they didn't respond 00:15:18.659 --> 00:15:21.220 I went okay And I talked to someone who went 00:15:21.220 --> 00:15:23.179 oh, no the program director never responds hit 00:15:23.179 --> 00:15:25.460 him again, and I hit him again He's like I love 00:15:25.460 --> 00:15:27.340 this idea. I'm sorry. I thought I got back to 00:15:27.340 --> 00:15:31.240 you And then I mean it's more of a podcast now 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.399 than a radio show the radio shows kind of secondary 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:35.539 most people listen to the podcast is why wouldn't 00:15:35.539 --> 00:15:39.220 you right but in 2013 you know not everyone was 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:42.500 listening to podcasts oh yeah yeah for sure yep 00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:44.980 and when it comes to talk radio it turns out 00:15:44.980 --> 00:15:47.460 that uh it all depends on who's talking exactly 00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:56.360 exactly cool so um so so let's get into the the 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:58.200 willard asylum a little bit i've got some notes 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:02.120 here i haven't covered willard yet on my podcast 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:06.820 and i consider willard If I had a Seneca Lake 00:16:06.820 --> 00:16:09.360 mysteries Mount Rushmore Willard would be one 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.960 of those one of those faces on on Mount Rushmore 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:16.279 I would probably have Seneca drums Seneca Lake 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:24.080 monster Willard and Maybe the white deer hmm 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:27.399 Not because they're not necessarily, you know 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:30.460 Paranormal, but they're just so unusual and so 00:16:30.460 --> 00:16:38.220 so offbeat so So yeah, the Willard Asylum opened 00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:43.879 in 1869. It was first called the Willard Asylum 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:47.399 for the Chronic Insane. And then in 1890, it 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:50.759 was renamed the Willard State Hospital. And it 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:59.320 stayed open until 1995. In 1974, it was renamed 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:02.539 the Willard Psychiatric Center. Right, right. 00:17:04.269 --> 00:17:07.569 So the names have changed over the years and 00:17:07.569 --> 00:17:11.109 originally it was named after dr. Sylvester D 00:17:11.109 --> 00:17:15.150 Willard who was a doctor from Albany that was 00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:19.569 well known for his compassion and his his his 00:17:19.569 --> 00:17:22.670 moral compass and he wanted to give mentally 00:17:22.670 --> 00:17:26.730 ill people and disabled people a dignified life 00:17:26.730 --> 00:17:31.859 So that was the spirit behind Willard now Of 00:17:31.859 --> 00:17:33.440 course, it's all relative when you're talking 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:37.740 about these types of facilities from back in 00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:42.240 the day. But it was one of the better ones. Yes, 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:48.819 it was one of the better ones. So by 1855, it 00:17:48.819 --> 00:17:54.279 was basically or 1885. So within the first 10, 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.259 15 years, it was turned into. basically a self 00:17:57.259 --> 00:18:00.880 -sufficient small town, had housing for residents 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:05.079 and employees, kitchens, livestock, gardens, 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:09.059 a slaughterhouse, a rail yard, pretty much everything 00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:15.160 a small town would need. And in 1931, they built 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:19.299 a hospital on the site, which had surgical rooms, 00:18:19.460 --> 00:18:22.720 all hospital services, dental, and that stayed 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:29.289 as a working hospital until the early 80s. And 00:18:29.289 --> 00:18:35.630 so when Willard was open, if you talk to a lot 00:18:35.630 --> 00:18:38.890 of the people who worked there in the later years, 00:18:39.210 --> 00:18:43.190 they don't seem to remember many bad things happening. 00:18:43.690 --> 00:18:46.950 No, no. I actually interviewed a woman who was 00:18:46.950 --> 00:18:50.039 a nurse here for decades. Oh, yeah, I haven't 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.700 put it up yet. I did it like a year or two ago, 00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:55.119 but I haven't had time to edit because we went 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:57.839 through the museum with her because she was leaving 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.119 the area and she was probably like 80 and she 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:03.039 told us a bunch of told me a bunch of stories 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.619 and then we drove around and she, you know, pointed 00:19:05.619 --> 00:19:07.400 to different buildings and explained what they 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.299 were for and stuff like that. So eventually that'll 00:19:10.299 --> 00:19:13.779 be up on the where the road go site. No, no paranormal 00:19:13.779 --> 00:19:16.740 stuff. It was just like a history of the psychiatric 00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:20.049 center. Right. There's a museum here? Yes, a 00:19:20.049 --> 00:19:22.589 very small one. Okay, I think I've heard about 00:19:22.589 --> 00:19:25.730 that. Is it open to the public? I think so, but 00:19:25.730 --> 00:19:30.390 I don't know when. They called me and one of 00:19:30.390 --> 00:19:34.130 my neighbors is a part of that group. And she's 00:19:34.130 --> 00:19:35.710 like, would you come interview this woman before 00:19:35.710 --> 00:19:39.890 she leaves? And I'm like, well, yes. Cool. Yeah. 00:19:42.029 --> 00:19:44.150 Yeah, so we'll be looking for that interview 00:19:44.150 --> 00:19:47.589 whenever that pops up. Maybe I'll put a little... 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.500 That'll put a little fire under me to get that 00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:58.640 right. But for for some of the other reports 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.900 that came from Willard when it was open, there 00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:05.420 were allegations of slave labor. There was, you 00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:10.720 know, abuse, neglect. And as far as the types 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:16.589 of. So -called therapies they used a lot of it 00:20:16.589 --> 00:20:19.009 was kind of progressive occupational therapy 00:20:19.009 --> 00:20:22.529 and like You know they they had you know a theater 00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:25.730 and a bowling alley and they wanted their residents 00:20:25.730 --> 00:20:28.710 to have a social life to some extent And to have 00:20:28.710 --> 00:20:32.809 jobs and to have a meaningful life But at the 00:20:32.809 --> 00:20:36.609 same time Some of the other methods they used 00:20:36.609 --> 00:20:42.130 were thyroid extractions They used arsenic to 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:47.170 treat mental illnesses caused by syphilis, insulin 00:20:47.170 --> 00:20:49.910 shock treatment. They used a drug starting in 00:20:49.910 --> 00:20:53.750 the 50s. They started using a drug called Metrazole, 00:20:53.829 --> 00:20:59.109 which is essentially a drug that induces more 00:20:59.109 --> 00:21:02.130 or less the same response as electroshock treatment. 00:21:02.230 --> 00:21:04.490 Right, right. Which is what they also did here. 00:21:04.589 --> 00:21:09.809 Yeah. So it had a, you know, it may not have 00:21:09.809 --> 00:21:13.920 been at the same level of Nightmare Factory is 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.700 a lot of the other. But compared to today. Similar. 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:20.779 Oh, yeah. Compared to today. Sure. And compared 00:21:20.779 --> 00:21:24.200 to even, you know, the places that were around 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:28.519 at the same time. But when it closed in 1995, 00:21:28.779 --> 00:21:32.460 there were only 135 patients left. Over the course 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:35.339 of... Were you going to say something? Yeah, 00:21:35.420 --> 00:21:37.700 there was a... So some of the patients were able 00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:40.940 to just leave. That and there was one guy and 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:43.039 I think his name was Warren if I remember right 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:44.980 and he would hang out down at there There was 00:21:44.980 --> 00:21:47.960 a little store Down here and he'd hang out there 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:49.680 when he talked to us every time we went down 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.200 there. He was probably in his 70s Mm -hmm, and 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.160 he told us the craziest stories. Oh, yeah No 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.059 idea if any of them were true They were just 00:21:57.059 --> 00:21:59.559 off the the wall type of stuff, but he was such 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:01.839 a blast to talk to and he was such a nice guy 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:06.559 Yeah Yeah, I am that reminds me I talked to a 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:10.970 woman who? She grew up in the area in between 00:22:10.970 --> 00:22:15.990 like Kind of between the the depot and Willard. 00:22:16.190 --> 00:22:19.069 Okay, the Seneca Army Depot, which is north of 00:22:19.069 --> 00:22:21.829 of Willard and she grew up she was a little girl 00:22:21.829 --> 00:22:25.670 in like the 60s and She she initially called 00:22:25.670 --> 00:22:27.930 to tell me stories about UFOs that she was seeing 00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:30.730 at that time And they were pretty common according 00:22:30.730 --> 00:22:34.269 to her when she was young, but she also mentioned 00:22:34.269 --> 00:22:38.049 that when she was little, especially at nighttime, 00:22:38.710 --> 00:22:42.529 it would feel extra weird or creepy to a lot 00:22:42.529 --> 00:22:45.769 of the kids that lived in the area because it's 00:22:45.769 --> 00:22:48.509 partially because the UFOs, but also because 00:22:48.509 --> 00:22:50.470 everybody was worried that someone was going 00:22:50.470 --> 00:22:54.210 to escape from the mental hospital. And occasionally 00:22:54.210 --> 00:22:56.309 it did happen where, you know, someone would, 00:22:56.390 --> 00:22:58.289 someone would escape and approach a house or 00:22:58.289 --> 00:23:00.369 something like that. So I thought that was a 00:23:00.369 --> 00:23:03.829 real interesting. You know way to grow up is 00:23:03.829 --> 00:23:06.509 to is to always have this in the back of your 00:23:06.509 --> 00:23:10.769 mind like thinking that some some some Disturbed 00:23:10.769 --> 00:23:13.230 person is gonna jump out of the trees that concern 00:23:13.230 --> 00:23:16.609 got worse when they put the prison here Oh, yeah, 00:23:16.789 --> 00:23:18.450 because people like what what if someone gets 00:23:18.450 --> 00:23:20.950 out? Yep, I don't think that anyone got out. 00:23:21.069 --> 00:23:23.210 I don't one guy wandered away when he was on 00:23:23.210 --> 00:23:27.000 cleaning detail Yes and it's like he just wandered 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:28.779 off and it's like and he only had like two weeks 00:23:28.779 --> 00:23:30.380 left or something like that and then he was thrown 00:23:30.380 --> 00:23:32.920 back in for however long for wandering off oh 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.099 yeah i remember that that wasn't that long no 00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:38.220 probably the last 10 years yeah um but that you 00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:40.460 know we got all those they called all the houses 00:23:40.460 --> 00:23:42.660 giving alerts oh you know so then it's like and 00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:44.579 it didn't sound like he was particularly dangerous 00:23:44.579 --> 00:23:47.799 right right yeah because the willard campus was 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:50.740 it was um drug rehabilitation but it was like 00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:53.880 it was like a prison yeah but a prison So it 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:57.000 was an alternate alternative to a regular prison, 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.880 quote unquote. So so people could get sent there. 00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.480 But there's also I mean, there's five points, 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:06.720 which is the maximum security prison, which is 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.299 not far away as well. Interesting that we're 00:24:10.299 --> 00:24:12.019 talking about this at this time, because right 00:24:12.019 --> 00:24:18.440 now the state and the county are taking. What 00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:23.599 do you call them? proposals for how to develop 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:27.240 the old Willard campus. Yes, I just saw that 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:31.759 the other day. About damn time. Yeah. I mean, 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:34.400 my first thought is save at least a building 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:38.720 or two for ghost hunting because I really think 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:40.799 like somebody could make somebody could make 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.779 a buck off of that. There are plenty of plenty 00:24:43.779 --> 00:24:49.589 of stories from inside Willard, I guess. lot 00:24:49.589 --> 00:24:55.069 of the lawnmower oh we got another lawnmower 00:24:55.069 --> 00:25:09.059 coming up here what's up Okay, so I had to stop 00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:11.579 and take a break there for a second the the mower 00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:14.339 guy came up He had lost his phone. Yeah when 00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:17.839 he was up here chatting with me, so Soraya called 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:19.700 his phone for him eventually. He found it over 00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:24.299 here in the Yeah in one piece he was worried 00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:27.180 he'd mowed it Yeah, and that guy had a long day 00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:28.640 and then to lose your phone right at the end 00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:32.339 of the day He looked like he was pretty stressed 00:25:32.339 --> 00:25:35.000 stressed out, so I'm glad you found it so we 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:37.180 were talking about uh yeah, we're talking about 00:25:37.180 --> 00:25:39.940 the Proposal for Willard proposal for Willard. 00:25:39.940 --> 00:25:41.859 I don't know what proposals they have. I'm sure 00:25:41.859 --> 00:25:44.220 some of them are like Well, they were talking 00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:46.240 about like for housing. They were talking a few 00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:50.039 different things. Yeah I mean it would be wise 00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:53.259 to make part of it a museum Sure, and I think 00:25:53.259 --> 00:25:55.660 that was part of what they're talking about Yeah, 00:25:55.700 --> 00:25:58.220 the Dick Van Dyke Center is still open over there. 00:25:58.220 --> 00:26:01.519 I think yeah it is So that's that's one of the 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:03.779 few things on that campus. That's still active. 00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:07.069 Uh -huh Yeah, a lot of the buildings unfortunately 00:26:07.069 --> 00:26:10.769 have almost fallen in on themselves, right? So 00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:14.390 yeah, I'm sure those will just be demolished 00:26:14.390 --> 00:26:17.269 Yep, for sure a certain point. It's beyond restoration. 00:26:17.829 --> 00:26:20.289 Yeah, but a lot of them I mean, but a lot of 00:26:20.289 --> 00:26:22.849 them are in you know, they They were on they 00:26:22.849 --> 00:26:25.309 were in use just a couple years ago. Yeah, so 00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:28.529 So we'll see what happens with that. But I think 00:26:28.529 --> 00:26:30.910 you're I think I did hear something about the 00:26:30.910 --> 00:26:33.710 county idea or whatever, like part of their part 00:26:33.710 --> 00:26:36.069 of their vision for it is to make sure that the 00:26:36.069 --> 00:26:38.329 the history is preserved, that it's not just 00:26:38.329 --> 00:26:41.150 like, you know, raised to the ground. Well, they 00:26:41.150 --> 00:26:46.230 forgot a few years ago. Well, it would have been 00:26:46.230 --> 00:26:50.130 2015, maybe they had opened it up for tours. 00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:54.460 I remember the response was so immense. for the 00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:56.140 one day they opened it up for tours that they 00:26:56.140 --> 00:26:58.619 had to cancel it. They ended up canceling it? 00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:00.740 Because there were too many people like the place 00:27:00.740 --> 00:27:03.299 was mobbed and they were like this is we can't 00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:05.720 control this we're gonna cancel this because 00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:07.759 I just happened to be on the air during the day 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:10.859 that day on VBR because they had like a dealer's 00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:12.440 choice thing where there was just an open hour 00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:14.960 and a friend of mine saw the post that I was 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:17.720 on the air and he's like hey because he was from 00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:19.680 like Syracuse he's like hey we we came to do 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:21.960 the Willard tour and they just cancelled it can 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:23.559 we come hang out at the radio station and I'm 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:26.380 like yeah sure so that's how I knew about that 00:27:26.380 --> 00:27:29.400 you know that they They you know, we're gonna 00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:31.359 open it up to regular tours, but there was so 00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:33.599 many people Yeah, they were like we can't handle 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:35.460 this. This is way because it was I think just 00:27:35.460 --> 00:27:38.500 a free tour Yeah, yeah, I think I I think I did 00:27:38.500 --> 00:27:40.279 hear about like hundreds of people showed up 00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:43.640 They expected, you know 50 or whatever or 15. 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:47.180 I think they underestimate the lure of a place 00:27:47.180 --> 00:27:50.180 like this Oh, yeah, it's um, yeah the history 00:27:50.180 --> 00:27:52.500 it was open for long time at one point. It was 00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:56.769 the largest Asylum in the United States like 00:27:56.769 --> 00:27:59.470 in the late 1800s. So and how many ghost shows 00:27:59.470 --> 00:28:02.710 have done Willard? Yeah, you know, yeah a number 00:28:02.710 --> 00:28:06.690 of them have Plus people who just you know, kind 00:28:06.690 --> 00:28:09.470 of call them whatever urban explorers or people 00:28:09.470 --> 00:28:11.910 that just like get in there and and and snoop 00:28:11.910 --> 00:28:14.829 around but I do know a guy I'm trying to get 00:28:14.829 --> 00:28:16.849 him on the podcast who said that years ago. He 00:28:16.849 --> 00:28:18.890 did go in there It's one of the buildings and 00:28:18.890 --> 00:28:21.789 did an investigation. He said we got some stuff 00:28:21.789 --> 00:28:25.259 and It was pretty impressive. So I don't know. 00:28:25.539 --> 00:28:28.700 Well, I'll give him another give him another 00:28:28.700 --> 00:28:34.559 poke to see if I can get him on here This is 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:38.619 and where we're at now So there were 50 field 00:28:38.619 --> 00:28:42.079 was that it's a potter's field a potter's field 00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:47.180 So there were 50 ,000 people who lived at residents 00:28:47.180 --> 00:28:51.539 patients at Willard throughout its history and 00:28:53.109 --> 00:28:55.670 Roughly half of them died while living here. 00:28:55.710 --> 00:28:59.750 So 25 some thousand but here at the Willard Cemetery 00:28:59.750 --> 00:29:03.569 There are five thousand seven hundred and sixty 00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:09.069 six former residents buried here and What makes 00:29:09.069 --> 00:29:13.490 this? Cemetery so unique at least to me the first 00:29:13.490 --> 00:29:18.730 time I came here is that? Not only is it you 00:29:18.730 --> 00:29:22.500 know over five thousand people who Died in the 00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:25.779 hospital whose families didn't claim their bodies 00:29:25.779 --> 00:29:28.759 For you know, it could have been that they had 00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:32.660 no family to claim the body but also, you know 00:29:32.660 --> 00:29:35.859 There were heiress in this country even not that 00:29:35.859 --> 00:29:39.240 long ago where when people had a someone in their 00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:43.299 family who was severely disabled They wanted 00:29:43.299 --> 00:29:45.359 nothing to do with them and they out of sight 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:51.009 out of mind and that's That's who's buried here 00:29:51.009 --> 00:29:57.029 And what makes it What makes it striking to me 00:29:57.029 --> 00:30:00.849 when I first came here is That there's aside 00:30:00.849 --> 00:30:05.549 from the far corner. There's a far corner Where 00:30:05.549 --> 00:30:08.789 there's Civil War? Veterans and I did double 00:30:08.789 --> 00:30:11.269 check on it Civil War veterans who were willard 00:30:11.269 --> 00:30:14.329 patients Okay are buried in the back corner, 00:30:14.329 --> 00:30:18.349 but that's the only place where there are any 00:30:19.399 --> 00:30:22.140 tombstones there's a couple spots that have markers 00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:26.619 that people have put in in the in more recent 00:30:26.619 --> 00:30:31.759 years but there's no it's just it just looks 00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.119 like a meadow when I was coming up here as a 00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:35.759 teenager yeah most of it looked like a meadow 00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:37.740 but there were areas that were overgrown with 00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:40.539 trees uh -huh and in there they had little metal 00:30:40.539 --> 00:30:44.029 slabs for tombstones Yep, and the Jewish graveyard 00:30:44.029 --> 00:30:46.470 were on the edge of right now was like that and 00:30:46.470 --> 00:30:48.349 they'd stick up out of the ground not very far 00:30:48.349 --> 00:30:51.130 They were steel and they just have a number on 00:30:51.130 --> 00:30:53.869 them, right? That's it. Yeah, I did find some 00:30:53.869 --> 00:30:57.890 pictures online of those And I had one which 00:30:57.890 --> 00:31:01.230 I'll tell the story about later But yeah, when 00:31:01.230 --> 00:31:03.130 they when they cleaned it up, they got rid of 00:31:03.130 --> 00:31:06.789 the slabs and if you look you can find circular 00:31:06.789 --> 00:31:11.549 Markers in the ground that have those numbers 00:31:11.549 --> 00:31:13.839 on them Yes, so that's what they replaced them 00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:15.420 with but of course those are sinking and getting 00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:18.440 overgrown right and the lawnmower guy there said 00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:20.380 like when he's mowing through the field, it's 00:31:20.380 --> 00:31:23.000 like Choppy waters you're going up and down up 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:25.299 and down He's like I assume that's just because 00:31:25.299 --> 00:31:27.319 there are graves there that have sunk it in. 00:31:27.460 --> 00:31:30.680 Yeah, and I would assume the same Yeah, yeah, 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.880 and I guess at some point in history. I don't 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.180 know what era it was probably closer to probably 00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:41.630 after it closed Maybe in the late 90s early 2000s 00:31:41.630 --> 00:31:44.809 the people that came here to mow Got tired of 00:31:44.809 --> 00:31:47.309 having to mow around whatever markers were left. 00:31:47.309 --> 00:31:49.430 So they ended up pulling up a lot of the markers 00:31:49.430 --> 00:31:54.490 If you there's a grove of trees over there Yeah, 00:31:54.490 --> 00:31:56.569 it's the only one that's left that you'll see 00:31:56.569 --> 00:31:59.289 a lot of markers there that are up against the 00:31:59.289 --> 00:32:01.309 roots and I think that's where they took a lot 00:32:01.309 --> 00:32:03.490 of them and just kind of Tossed them in a pile 00:32:03.490 --> 00:32:07.369 there. There's also I found online a picture 00:32:08.259 --> 00:32:11.799 cement things with markers on them and the woman 00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:13.700 said I forget what corner it was I think it's 00:32:13.700 --> 00:32:15.960 the far corner she said she found it in the woods 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:20.220 just a bunch of markers on cement pieces just 00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:25.299 tossed in a pile yeah I mean that's a you know 00:32:25.299 --> 00:32:29.619 that another it just feels like you know the 00:32:29.619 --> 00:32:33.400 people who passed away were there this is their 00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:37.630 final resting place and then for the final slap 00:32:37.630 --> 00:32:41.309 in the face, like whatever little tombstones 00:32:41.309 --> 00:32:43.170 were here for them, whatever little markers that 00:32:43.170 --> 00:32:45.769 were there to remember them were just unceremoniously 00:32:45.769 --> 00:32:50.809 picked up and just dumped in a corner. In the 00:32:50.809 --> 00:32:52.390 years since I started coming up here in the late 00:32:52.390 --> 00:32:55.529 in probably the mid late 80s, this place has 00:32:55.529 --> 00:32:59.440 changed dramatically. Yeah. So they were like 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.220 I said, there were a lot more trees where they 00:33:01.220 --> 00:33:03.079 had the markers in the trees and they just didn't 00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:05.700 do anything with them There used to be a little 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:09.119 building for the grave digger Even after the 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:10.660 grave digger. I think the grave digger passed 00:33:10.660 --> 00:33:15.740 away. What year? 1968 okay. Yeah, so obviously 00:33:15.740 --> 00:33:18.279 he I wasn't around when he was alive, but they 00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:21.160 had a building a cement building and They just 00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:24.039 one day demolished it and made it part of the 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:27.420 road going up into here And it's like, why would 00:33:27.420 --> 00:33:29.480 you do this? It was a perfectly good building. 00:33:30.019 --> 00:33:32.200 Yeah. Oh, so you did you ever go in there? No, 00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:34.220 it was locked. Oh, OK. Yeah. But it was a small 00:33:34.220 --> 00:33:36.519 builds like a shed. Yeah. It was cement. So it 00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:40.519 was all, you know, solid. So it's not like it 00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:44.119 was rotting or anything. Yeah. Maybe they did 00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:45.980 it because they weren't using it anymore. But 00:33:45.980 --> 00:33:49.339 still, why bother to demolish it and then rubble 00:33:49.339 --> 00:33:53.519 it down to make gravel for the road? Yeah, I. 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:56.339 I don't I don't have an answer to that. I can't 00:33:56.339 --> 00:33:59.779 think of a reason except they just I mean You 00:33:59.779 --> 00:34:01.740 just have it in your mind that this place kind 00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:03.819 of doesn't matter like nobody remembers anyone 00:34:03.819 --> 00:34:06.539 here It doesn't you know, it's just changed now 00:34:06.539 --> 00:34:10.500 for sure. Yeah And we didn't even know if we 00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:13.079 were allowed to be up here, honestly Yeah, cuz 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:14.840 it's like I mean there were no trespassing signs 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:17.420 on the woods. Mm -hmm But if you came up here, 00:34:17.420 --> 00:34:19.920 there would also be no trespassing signs looking 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.800 out toward the woods. So we were always like 00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:25.480 Are we allowed to be here? We don't don't really 00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:28.019 care, but like we're going to be careful about 00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:30.199 coming up here. There was one day we had walked 00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:32.719 down in a Willard safety officer pass just as 00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:35.119 we were walking down the driveway and he stopped 00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:37.619 and we went, all right, well, we weren't doing 00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:39.320 anything wrong. So we're just going to keep walking. 00:34:39.460 --> 00:34:41.900 And then he drove off. I think if we had like 00:34:41.900 --> 00:34:45.239 ran or something, he would have been like. So 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:48.719 were you were you young enough to have been coming 00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:52.610 here when the the. Hospital with the state hospital 00:34:52.610 --> 00:34:54.690 is open. Yeah, okay. This would have been like 00:34:54.690 --> 00:35:01.030 86 87. Oh wow, okay Yeah, I don't know were they 00:35:01.030 --> 00:35:03.389 still burying people here at that time. I think 00:35:03.389 --> 00:35:06.429 so Because I think the wood we made our bench 00:35:06.429 --> 00:35:09.130 out of was the wood they used to carry one of 00:35:09.130 --> 00:35:13.309 the coffins. Oh man Because it was just this 00:35:13.309 --> 00:35:15.650 really nice wood just laying on the ground right 00:35:15.650 --> 00:35:17.210 next to the building over there And we're like 00:35:17.210 --> 00:35:24.780 we can make a bench out of this Yeah Yeah, you 00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:27.239 mentioned the gravedigger so I wanted I wanted 00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.400 to just quickly go over the story of Lawrence 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:33.960 mocha and he's you know not that I mean a lot 00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:36.940 of it's It's getting kind of heartbreaking like 00:35:36.940 --> 00:35:38.679 I feel like I'm talking about a lot of heartbreaking 00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:42.940 things And we'll we'll we'll get past that a 00:35:42.940 --> 00:35:45.260 little bit, but that's part of the history here. 00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:49.880 So There was a man named Lawrence mocha and he 00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:54.480 was born in Austria in 1878 He suffered a head 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.480 injury from getting hit with a rock when he was 00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:03.400 27 Then he became an alcoholic and Between the 00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:07.460 alcohol and the brain damage he ended up and 00:36:07.460 --> 00:36:09.820 it had his first day in an asylum when he was 00:36:09.820 --> 00:36:13.380 living in Germany Um, but every description I 00:36:13.380 --> 00:36:16.559 can see about why he was put away was because 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:19.980 he would, he was singing loudly and excitedly 00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:23.820 in public and people uncomfortable. Yeah. So, 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:27.500 um, and I was just thinking, man, I, I've lost 00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:30.599 count of the number of guys I've seen in cities 00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:33.860 who are singing and laughing excitedly. And, 00:36:33.860 --> 00:36:37.320 uh, nobody seems to get too bothered. Well, also 00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:41.150 when you're drunk. You're more likely to do that. 00:36:41.170 --> 00:36:44.829 Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure I've I'm sure I've done 00:36:44.829 --> 00:36:50.329 that myself so so then Lawrence moved to New 00:36:50.329 --> 00:36:54.909 York City at age 29 and He started working at 00:36:54.909 --> 00:36:57.409 Bellevue Hospital in New York City as a window 00:36:57.409 --> 00:37:00.429 washer He did okay for about eight or nine years, 00:37:00.429 --> 00:37:04.889 but then when he was 38 he was again singing 00:37:04.889 --> 00:37:08.269 loudly and excitedly except now he was Telling 00:37:08.269 --> 00:37:11.110 people that God was speaking to him. So they 00:37:11.110 --> 00:37:14.630 said well, that's that's uh, maybe he was Hey, 00:37:14.710 --> 00:37:18.750 he might have been And they said well that's 00:37:18.750 --> 00:37:20.769 enough so you're no longer working at Bellevue 00:37:20.769 --> 00:37:24.349 now you are a resident of Bellevue and at age 00:37:24.349 --> 00:37:29.650 40 he was transferred to Willard And first he 00:37:29.650 --> 00:37:33.909 was a maintenance guy and then He started digging 00:37:33.909 --> 00:37:39.019 graves right here in the cemetery From what I 00:37:39.019 --> 00:37:42.519 can gather he dug a lot I don't I didn't read 00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:45.900 anything about the grave digging team like he 00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:49.019 was the guy who Dug graves. Yeah, I think it 00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:54.300 was just him by himself. Yeah starting it was 00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:59.860 I don't know exactly when he started but He it 00:37:59.860 --> 00:38:02.739 was after he was transferred here at age 40 then 00:38:02.739 --> 00:38:09.480 in 1945 He was 67 years old, and he wrote a letter 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:11.599 to his doctor asking for his release. Have you 00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:16.019 heard the letter? No. Okay, I've got the letter 00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:21.900 here from Lawrence to his doctor, 1945. Dr. Keele, 00:38:22.380 --> 00:38:26.500 I hereby Lawrence Mocha stop work. Yesterday 00:38:26.500 --> 00:38:29.440 afternoon, I asked you doctor to discharge me 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.280 from Willard Institution. I am capable to do 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:35.460 my living independently. I also want to get money 00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:38.880 for my work here. I make over eight years more 00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:43.360 than 500 graves myself and other heavy work all 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:47.199 year round. I asked doctor to prepare my trunk, 00:38:47.340 --> 00:38:49.980 which I brought here from Central Islip. It is 00:38:49.980 --> 00:38:53.420 my own. I bought it in Dusseldorf. I am respectfully 00:38:53.420 --> 00:39:02.190 yours. huh and I mean you sound sane yeah and 00:39:02.190 --> 00:39:06.789 and I just can't imagine digging graves for 20 00:39:06.789 --> 00:39:09.630 years or whatever 500 graves and also keep in 00:39:09.630 --> 00:39:13.489 mind that these were residents of Willard most 00:39:13.489 --> 00:39:16.070 likely a lot of people that he knew yeah you 00:39:16.070 --> 00:39:19.070 know friend friends and you know kind of the 00:39:19.070 --> 00:39:24.190 only family and community that he had yeah and 00:39:24.750 --> 00:39:29.389 In response they they let him keep digging graves 00:39:29.389 --> 00:39:34.170 and He continued digging graves here. This blows 00:39:34.170 --> 00:39:42.190 my mind until he was 90 years old Wow So Maybe 00:39:42.190 --> 00:39:43.829 part of the reason he lived to be 90 is because 00:39:43.829 --> 00:39:47.110 he was digging graves, right? Right. Yeah, he 00:39:47.110 --> 00:39:50.730 must have been in great shape in great shape 00:39:50.730 --> 00:39:56.300 But 90 yeah, and and then Of course, he was buried 00:39:56.300 --> 00:40:00.840 here at the cemetery. And by the time he passed 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:03.800 away, they said that he dug more than 1 ,500 00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:07.019 graves out of the 5 ,700 and something people 00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:14.159 that were here. And then it was around 2015. 00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:20.139 I know they put the marker in 2015. Some local 00:40:20.139 --> 00:40:23.079 people, there were people who moved in here in 00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:29.880 the in, I don't know, 2009, 2010 -ish, I believe, 00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:35.400 who saw how much disrepair the cemetery was in. 00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:37.940 There were people advocating for cleaning it 00:40:37.940 --> 00:40:44.179 up and making it look respectful. And they installed 00:40:44.179 --> 00:40:48.860 a marker, so there's a huge stone boulder that's 00:40:48.860 --> 00:40:51.880 over in the middle of the cemetery. And that's 00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:55.239 where the building used to be. Oh, OK. Makes 00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:58.280 perfect sense. Yep. So, yeah, there's a stone 00:40:58.280 --> 00:41:02.000 there and it commemorates Lawrence Mocha's life 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.019 and, you know, gives him a little a little nod 00:41:07.019 --> 00:41:12.280 for what he what he gave to this place. But I 00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:14.000 like how the letters like, hey, I'm not getting 00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:15.719 paid for this. I'm doing a lot of work. I want 00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:17.260 to be on my own. And they said, well, you just 00:41:17.260 --> 00:41:21.340 keep digging graves. Yeah. Like what? Not even 00:41:21.340 --> 00:41:24.940 OK, we'll pay you. Right. For doing this work. 00:41:25.579 --> 00:41:31.639 Yeah. And I mean, like digging a great like that's 00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:34.360 a big hole that a person has to dig. It must 00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:37.940 have been just all day, all the time. He must 00:41:37.940 --> 00:41:42.760 have been constantly pushing that shovel. So, 00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:46.139 yeah, much, much respect to Lawrence Mocha for 00:41:46.139 --> 00:41:51.219 for everything he did here. And I also tip my 00:41:51.219 --> 00:41:53.800 hat to the people who came in, the friends of 00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:55.840 Willard. I remember what exactly the name of 00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.280 the group was who who cleaned this place up and 00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:00.760 made it accessible again. The only place they 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:03.239 ever kept up was the Civil War graveyard back 00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:05.559 in the day. That was the only place that was 00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:09.059 mowed, had flags all the time. That was the only 00:42:09.059 --> 00:42:11.519 area of this that was actually kept up. Yep. 00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:15.639 Yeah, I would imagine that's the only place with 00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:20.909 tombstones. Also, it's a military. military cemetery 00:42:20.909 --> 00:42:24.489 and right now it looks great the mower guy that 00:42:24.489 --> 00:42:28.010 just came up he said that actually a local person 00:42:28.010 --> 00:42:30.210 I can't remember his name that is the one who 00:42:30.210 --> 00:42:32.829 takes care of that cemetery now if you if you 00:42:32.829 --> 00:42:34.349 look at the grass over there it's beautiful like 00:42:34.349 --> 00:42:36.269 there's no weeds or anything around it looks 00:42:36.269 --> 00:42:38.329 like it's been taken care of this whole time 00:42:38.329 --> 00:42:43.389 right the rest of the area just went wild um 00:42:43.389 --> 00:42:48.030 yeah it's it's I can't remember I don't think 00:42:48.030 --> 00:42:52.090 I remember how big this is but it's it's oh he 00:42:52.090 --> 00:42:55.309 told me the mower told me like 15 acres or something 00:42:55.309 --> 00:42:58.570 15 acres that sounds that sounds about right 00:42:58.570 --> 00:43:01.110 yeah it can be deceptive when i've come up here 00:43:01.110 --> 00:43:02.789 and walked around i'm like oh i'm gonna go over 00:43:02.789 --> 00:43:04.789 there by those trees see what's over there takes 00:43:04.789 --> 00:43:06.829 you a while 20 minutes later i'm still hiking 00:43:06.829 --> 00:43:10.489 like holy cow it also has a very nice vibe up 00:43:10.489 --> 00:43:13.289 here Yes. It's very peaceful. It's very, you 00:43:13.289 --> 00:43:15.269 know, like I said, we'll talk about it, but I've 00:43:15.269 --> 00:43:17.050 had weird stuff happen up here, but even that 00:43:17.050 --> 00:43:19.030 weird stuff, I don't really get freaked out by 00:43:19.030 --> 00:43:22.070 weird stuff, but it was never ominous. Right. 00:43:22.230 --> 00:43:25.329 Yep. Yeah. That's the same feeling I get here. 00:43:25.349 --> 00:43:28.269 I mean, when I think about the meaning of the 00:43:28.269 --> 00:43:30.349 place and the people that are buried here and 00:43:30.349 --> 00:43:33.409 stuff, like that's melancholy, but I've never 00:43:33.409 --> 00:43:36.309 felt, yeah, I've never felt uncomfortable here 00:43:36.309 --> 00:43:41.650 or anything like that. Yeah, it's a it doesn't 00:43:41.650 --> 00:43:47.150 feel like other places Yeah, I agree and maybe 00:43:47.150 --> 00:43:50.730 that's partly the openness and the Positioning 00:43:50.730 --> 00:43:54.050 of it. I don't know. Mm -hmm Well, it could have 00:43:54.050 --> 00:43:56.570 to do with With something else that we'll get 00:43:56.570 --> 00:43:59.070 to in a little bit that we talked about on your 00:43:59.070 --> 00:44:02.050 show that I haven't talked about on mine yet 00:44:02.050 --> 00:44:08.849 But as you just mentioned it You said you've 00:44:08.849 --> 00:44:12.789 had some strange experiences here. Yes. I have 00:44:12.789 --> 00:44:16.469 no idea which ones came in what order. OK. I 00:44:16.469 --> 00:44:19.750 can go with the most subtle one first. The most 00:44:19.750 --> 00:44:22.010 subtle one was so like I said, we built a bench. 00:44:22.130 --> 00:44:24.530 We built a bench right on the cliff. You couldn't 00:44:24.530 --> 00:44:27.329 see it from the graveyard because there was enough 00:44:27.329 --> 00:44:29.469 foliage and stuff that we made it because we 00:44:29.469 --> 00:44:31.110 initially just made a trail to the edge of the 00:44:31.110 --> 00:44:34.849 cliff that was maybe maybe 10 feet and we would 00:44:34.849 --> 00:44:37.420 sit on the edge of the cliff. and we're like 00:44:37.420 --> 00:44:39.280 we should build a bench or something and then 00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:41.340 suddenly wood was there and we went let's use 00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:43.619 this wood and we brought some nails and we made 00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:46.000 this little makeshift bench against the tree 00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:48.400 that actually is still there but half of it's 00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:50.179 even then half of it was hanging over the edge 00:44:50.179 --> 00:44:54.000 of the cliff uh the bench what's left of the 00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:58.019 bench has been flipped over the the uh top of 00:44:58.019 --> 00:45:01.599 the Cliff in this part of it sitting on the other 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:03.380 side still in pretty good shape. Oh, really? 00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:05.480 Yeah, I have pictures of it It's hard to see 00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:08.260 once it's grown in but I was up here Before everything 00:45:08.260 --> 00:45:09.800 started growing in and we were like, oh if you 00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:11.599 look at just this angle, you can see the wood. 00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:14.460 Yep so he built that bench and we came up here 00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:18.579 all the time and Because none of us drove, you 00:45:18.579 --> 00:45:20.840 know, we're all teenagers and I don't think I 00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:24.280 got my license till I was 19. Oh That sounds 00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:28.219 right But anyway, so There was one day I was 00:45:28.219 --> 00:45:29.900 just sitting up here on my own waiting for like 00:45:29.900 --> 00:45:31.739 some friends to get home or they were having 00:45:31.739 --> 00:45:34.539 dinner or something. I was going to go back and 00:45:34.539 --> 00:45:37.880 I started whistling the end of Fates Warnings, 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:41.079 the epitaph, which is this just melodic piece 00:45:41.079 --> 00:45:44.940 he does. And I'd stop and then I'd hear it back 00:45:44.940 --> 00:45:48.559 on the wind. Oh, and I went, is that my imagination? 00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:51.920 Like, what's going on here? And then I hum it 00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:55.019 again and it would whistle back on the wind again. 00:45:55.019 --> 00:45:58.010 I'm like. Alright, either I'm hallucinating or 00:45:58.010 --> 00:46:04.829 that's really interesting. Yeah The The tombstone 00:46:04.829 --> 00:46:07.369 when they demolished that building there were 00:46:07.369 --> 00:46:10.489 tombstones and stuff in it. Mm -hmm. So They 00:46:10.489 --> 00:46:12.769 made it part of the road one of the tombstones 00:46:12.769 --> 00:46:15.110 I think it was number 14 and it's funny because 00:46:15.110 --> 00:46:16.809 I when I was looking around for pictures I found 00:46:16.809 --> 00:46:21.070 like number 13 and number 15 pictures of them 00:46:21.070 --> 00:46:24.090 and I have 14 And I don't know where it is. I 00:46:24.090 --> 00:46:27.630 wish I could find it. But it's just sticking 00:46:27.630 --> 00:46:30.190 out of the gravel. And you pull on it, and it 00:46:30.190 --> 00:46:33.269 was broken. And I was like, I'm keeping it. It's 00:46:33.269 --> 00:46:35.630 a cool little tombstone. And we stuck it under 00:46:35.630 --> 00:46:38.090 the bench. Now, first of all, most people, there 00:46:38.090 --> 00:46:39.949 were a few kids who would come up here who knew 00:46:39.949 --> 00:46:42.250 the bench was there. But where I stuck the tombstone, 00:46:42.269 --> 00:46:44.630 you couldn't get to it. You had to know it was 00:46:44.630 --> 00:46:48.150 there to get to it. And one day, we're sitting 00:46:48.150 --> 00:46:49.730 up there. I reach under there, and it's gone. 00:46:50.730 --> 00:46:53.849 I'm like, who took my tombstone? That's weird. 00:46:54.250 --> 00:46:56.590 And so as we're walking out, we're looking to 00:46:56.590 --> 00:46:59.809 the right, to the cliff, past where the bench 00:46:59.809 --> 00:47:02.289 is, because you can't get any further along from 00:47:02.289 --> 00:47:06.030 where we built the bench. And there's the tombstone. 00:47:06.409 --> 00:47:08.110 And it's laying on the ground on the edge of 00:47:08.110 --> 00:47:11.150 the cliff in a cleared out spot with three sticks 00:47:11.150 --> 00:47:16.349 on each side. And I went, I can't. And we walked 00:47:16.349 --> 00:47:17.889 all the way around it. We're like, you can't 00:47:17.889 --> 00:47:21.460 get in there. I had to break some branches. to 00:47:21.460 --> 00:47:23.659 get into it like no one could have gone in there 00:47:23.659 --> 00:47:26.079 and put that there and I picked it back up my 00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:28.280 friends freaking out and I'm like this is mine 00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:30.920 leave it alone and I went back and put it under 00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:32.519 the bench and that's where it stayed till I took 00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:37.480 it home one day and nothing uh nothing creepy 00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:39.539 or there was no like nothing attached to it or 00:47:39.539 --> 00:47:43.460 anything unsettling it was just and I don't have 00:47:43.460 --> 00:47:45.440 any explanation for it like an animal wouldn't 00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:48.500 do that no a person couldn't do that because 00:47:48.500 --> 00:47:52.780 you couldn't get to it Right. So it's like, all 00:47:52.780 --> 00:47:54.739 right, I wish I had a camera at the time. Yeah. 00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:57.900 Now with something like that, the first thing 00:47:57.900 --> 00:47:59.780 I would have done is snapped a picture. Right. 00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:01.880 And then did a little video around it to show 00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:04.500 you can't get in there. And maybe even a live 00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:07.940 stream. I mean, everybody's got cameras in their 00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:11.519 pockets now. Exactly. And then the big one, I 00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:12.800 mean, there was probably a lot of, well, there 00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.500 was another little one, that group of trees that's 00:48:15.500 --> 00:48:18.179 still over there, the one they didn't take out. 00:48:18.429 --> 00:48:21.210 I was on the far end of it, where it borders 00:48:21.210 --> 00:48:24.269 the woods, and my friend was on the other side. 00:48:24.269 --> 00:48:26.690 We were just, you know, hiking along. And I got 00:48:26.690 --> 00:48:28.869 this ominous feeling, like everything went dead 00:48:28.869 --> 00:48:31.449 quiet. And I felt like something big was watching 00:48:31.449 --> 00:48:34.429 me. And that's the only time I got spooked up 00:48:34.429 --> 00:48:37.210 here. I was like, oh, that's unsettling. And 00:48:37.210 --> 00:48:39.630 I'm like, Dave? And he's like, yeah? I'm like, 00:48:39.989 --> 00:48:42.469 stay there. And then I walked back around, and 00:48:42.469 --> 00:48:44.530 when I came back around, all the sound came back. 00:48:45.429 --> 00:48:48.530 Oh, wow. You said it felt like something big? 00:48:48.949 --> 00:48:52.070 Yeah, it felt like a predator watching you. Oh. 00:48:52.610 --> 00:48:55.070 That's a good thing. Yeah. Well, it's not a predator, 00:48:55.150 --> 00:48:56.829 but there's a little brown deer. Oh, a couple 00:48:56.829 --> 00:48:58.590 brown deer over there. Yeah, that's not uncommon. 00:48:58.809 --> 00:49:02.070 Spying on us. But it was that Oz effect quiet, 00:49:02.190 --> 00:49:05.050 I think, that freaked me out. And just that oppressive, 00:49:05.389 --> 00:49:08.269 ominous sort of vibe, which I've never felt up 00:49:08.269 --> 00:49:12.010 here except for that one time. Hmm. Any idea 00:49:12.010 --> 00:49:16.250 why? Nope. I don't even try to explain this stuff, 00:49:16.389 --> 00:49:18.349 right? I try to a lot of times I try to take 00:49:18.349 --> 00:49:20.949 see what I could take away from it Yeah, you 00:49:20.949 --> 00:49:23.469 know, but that was probably just go around and 00:49:23.469 --> 00:49:27.449 find your friend I'm sure there are sinister 00:49:27.449 --> 00:49:29.889 things around that in the right circumstances 00:49:29.889 --> 00:49:32.710 could hurt you Yeah, I mean you got plenty of 00:49:32.710 --> 00:49:34.710 missing people in the woods, right? Whereas most 00:49:34.710 --> 00:49:36.550 of them are probably prosaic. There's a few that 00:49:36.550 --> 00:49:41.110 are real weird. Yeah, that's true The weirdest 00:49:41.110 --> 00:49:44.750 experience up here We had made a trail going 00:49:44.750 --> 00:49:46.570 the other direction along the side of it, because 00:49:46.570 --> 00:49:49.190 we were kids. We had nothing else to do. So we 00:49:49.190 --> 00:49:51.289 made a trail going the other way. We had a plank 00:49:51.289 --> 00:49:52.889 of wood, and we were trying to make a bench out 00:49:52.889 --> 00:49:54.469 of it, but it wasn't really working. So we had 00:49:54.469 --> 00:49:57.630 just a little cleared out area. And there were 00:49:57.630 --> 00:49:59.750 three of us there, and the fourth friend was 00:49:59.750 --> 00:50:01.809 sitting on the bench on the other side. At this 00:50:01.809 --> 00:50:04.449 point, it was quite a distance away. And we saw 00:50:04.449 --> 00:50:07.369 him sitting over there. And the tree between 00:50:07.369 --> 00:50:10.389 us and the graveyard was a decent size tree, 00:50:10.530 --> 00:50:13.289 not like a huge tree, but a solid thing, it would 00:50:13.289 --> 00:50:15.650 be hard to move, and it just starts shaking. 00:50:16.969 --> 00:50:21.349 And you're hearing on the ground, and I'm thinking 00:50:21.349 --> 00:50:25.050 buck. I'm thinking buck, it hears us, it's hitting 00:50:25.050 --> 00:50:28.230 its horns, because it was a tree a buck could 00:50:28.230 --> 00:50:31.190 have shaken. And my one friend's going, what 00:50:31.190 --> 00:50:33.150 the hell is that? I'm like, oh man, I think it's 00:50:33.150 --> 00:50:34.710 a buck. And I'm thinking, we're going to have 00:50:34.710 --> 00:50:38.190 to drop down the... the cliff right and so I 00:50:38.190 --> 00:50:41.309 kind of cautiously walk around down the trail 00:50:41.309 --> 00:50:43.590 and as soon as I can see the other side it just 00:50:43.590 --> 00:50:46.949 stops and there's nothing there so he's like 00:50:46.949 --> 00:50:49.170 what is it I'm like nothing and he's like what 00:50:49.170 --> 00:50:51.389 do you mean nothing how is that nothing and I'm 00:50:51.389 --> 00:50:53.829 like dude there's nothing there and I walk back 00:50:53.829 --> 00:50:56.710 and it starts doing it again and I'm like all 00:50:56.710 --> 00:50:59.730 right so this time I walk out I go into the field 00:50:59.730 --> 00:51:02.289 and there was still trees right next to us but 00:51:02.289 --> 00:51:06.679 still you could see through them And there's 00:51:06.679 --> 00:51:09.420 nothing, anywhere. And as soon as I got to a 00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:13.480 visual point, it stopped. Wow. And he's now really 00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:16.519 losing it. And I come back, he's like, how could 00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:18.239 it be nothing? And then it starts doing it again. 00:51:19.860 --> 00:51:22.059 And he's like, and then our other friend finally 00:51:22.059 --> 00:51:24.599 goes, what the hell are you guys talking about? 00:51:25.659 --> 00:51:28.420 And we just both got quiet, went, you don't see 00:51:28.420 --> 00:51:30.420 the tree shaking? He's like, the tree's not moving. 00:51:32.019 --> 00:51:34.460 And we're like. And they're both like, we need 00:51:34.460 --> 00:51:37.860 to leave now. And at that moment, our friend 00:51:37.860 --> 00:51:39.659 gets up and he starts walking over toward us 00:51:39.659 --> 00:51:42.059 from the other bench and just randomly starts 00:51:42.059 --> 00:51:44.639 picking up rocks and throwing them right where 00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:47.380 we're hearing the sound from. And we're like, 00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:49.639 do you see something over there? He's like, no, 00:51:49.639 --> 00:51:52.300 why? And we're like, because the tree was shaking 00:51:52.300 --> 00:51:54.019 and there's some, he's like, I was throwing rocks. 00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:56.400 I'm like, yeah, right now you're throwing rocks, 00:51:56.539 --> 00:51:58.579 but you were sitting when this was happening 00:51:58.579 --> 00:52:04.719 before. And so then we all left. And we were 00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:09.000 practical jokers, particularly me. So my friend 00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:11.480 Dave, who had experienced all this weird stuff 00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:14.539 with me, he's the one who didn't see it moving. 00:52:15.219 --> 00:52:18.179 He thought we were messing with him. So the next 00:52:18.179 --> 00:52:22.179 day he's like, was that tree shaking thing, were 00:52:22.179 --> 00:52:24.679 you guys serious? And I was like, yes, we were 00:52:24.679 --> 00:52:27.239 very serious. He's like, oh man, I thought you 00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:30.409 were effing with me. He's like. What the hell 00:52:30.409 --> 00:52:32.570 how come I couldn't see it and I'm like, I don't 00:52:32.570 --> 00:52:35.070 know what I kept notes too I've been keeping 00:52:35.070 --> 00:52:37.909 notes since 1990 and that's in the notes And 00:52:37.909 --> 00:52:40.289 so just from memory I assumed Dave was the one 00:52:40.289 --> 00:52:41.849 that saw it my other friend didn't because my 00:52:41.849 --> 00:52:44.530 other friend never saw anything Mm -hmm, but 00:52:44.530 --> 00:52:46.230 then I'm reading the notes good. I got everything 00:52:46.230 --> 00:52:49.110 here, right except it was Dave that didn't see 00:52:49.110 --> 00:52:54.130 it That's bizarre and then so we walked home 00:52:54.329 --> 00:52:56.250 Well, they walked home and then I came back up 00:52:56.250 --> 00:52:58.090 here. I was waiting for a ride home. And I'm 00:52:58.090 --> 00:53:00.530 like, I have time. I'm going back up there. And 00:53:00.530 --> 00:53:02.190 there was nothing there. But when I walked down 00:53:02.190 --> 00:53:05.929 by the Civil War graveyard, it was just, again, 00:53:06.110 --> 00:53:09.190 as effect, quiet, not not feeling ominous or 00:53:09.190 --> 00:53:11.250 anything. But there was something moving through 00:53:11.250 --> 00:53:13.869 the top of the trees and big branches were breaking 00:53:13.869 --> 00:53:17.349 and falling from the tree. And I was like, and 00:53:17.349 --> 00:53:19.489 there's nothing I can't see anything. It's making 00:53:19.489 --> 00:53:22.710 almost a monkey like squealing noise. And I'm 00:53:22.710 --> 00:53:25.309 and I forgot all about this until I read my notes 00:53:25.309 --> 00:53:29.130 and I'm going Holy crap. I remember that now 00:53:29.130 --> 00:53:32.289 now that I've read the note, but oh And it just 00:53:32.289 --> 00:53:34.329 eventually it just kind of stopped and I went. 00:53:34.329 --> 00:53:37.289 All right. Was that like after dark? Uh, it was 00:53:37.289 --> 00:53:43.369 probably dusk. Okay Wow that Yeah, I have no 00:53:43.369 --> 00:53:45.130 explanation. There's other stuff that happened 00:53:45.130 --> 00:53:48.230 in that same time period But it was like at my 00:53:48.230 --> 00:53:52.219 house and stuff like that So it was like just 00:53:52.219 --> 00:53:54.400 a whole series of things that all seem interconnected 00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:57.760 and those were the two that happened here. Yeah. 00:53:58.460 --> 00:54:01.199 For a tree to move like that, even a smaller 00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:03.619 tree, the amount of force. Yeah, it would take 00:54:03.619 --> 00:54:06.119 something like a buck. Yeah. The first time I 00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:08.360 told the story on where did the road go, someone 00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:10.659 said it was Bigfoot, he was invisible. And I 00:54:10.659 --> 00:54:12.539 went, I can't prove there's not an invisible 00:54:12.539 --> 00:54:14.460 Bigfoot. Right. And certainly if there was an 00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:16.599 invisible Bigfoot, it could have shaken the tree. 00:54:16.860 --> 00:54:19.239 True. But whatever it was, I mean, we could feel 00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:22.400 the ground shake. That's the thing. Oh, yeah. 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:25.559 So that's heavy. That's not a person doing something 00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:27.719 like that. Right. And it's not someone throwing 00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:31.079 rocks. Yeah. Yeah. A person wouldn't even be 00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:33.539 able to do that probably. Right. Exactly. Maybe 00:54:33.539 --> 00:54:36.719 move the tree a little bit, but not to shake 00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:39.159 it like that. And again, a large buck easily 00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:42.400 could have done what we experienced. Right. Except 00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:45.199 there was no large buck. Right. Unless it was 00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:49.460 an invisible buck. But I mean walking away from 00:54:49.460 --> 00:54:52.719 that might my takeaway immediately was we don't 00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:56.539 always all experience the same things Right because 00:54:56.539 --> 00:54:58.400 here's here's my friend Dave freaking out because 00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:01.500 he's not seeing it Yep, and I've had other experiences 00:55:01.500 --> 00:55:03.940 like that where I experienced a weird thing with 00:55:03.940 --> 00:55:05.860 someone and there was a third person who didn't 00:55:05.860 --> 00:55:10.420 see it Right, and it's like okay Are they blocking 00:55:10.420 --> 00:55:13.739 it out? Do we all just kind of interpret things 00:55:13.739 --> 00:55:16.400 differently? Like I I don't know it may be questioned 00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:20.860 a lot yeah for sure and there's Yeah, and that's 00:55:20.860 --> 00:55:23.420 that's that is something that happens in all 00:55:23.420 --> 00:55:26.320 kinds of sightings whether it's UFOs or ghosts 00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:29.360 or where where some people will see it and others 00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:33.960 won't The thing about this one is it was so visceral 00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:36.179 Yeah, you know, I mean the tree was literally 00:55:36.179 --> 00:55:37.920 shaking there was thumping on the ground. He 00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:41.679 wasn't seeing any of it. Yeah That's that's crazy. 00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:43.579 Because I mean, if you're feeling that vibration 00:55:43.579 --> 00:55:45.719 of thumping in the ground and the trees moving. 00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:48.820 Because I mean, the other dramatic one that I 00:55:48.820 --> 00:55:50.760 had where someone else didn't see it is my girlfriend 00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:52.900 and I were walking through the graveyard in Ithaca, 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:55.159 the Ithaca cemetery, which we've had a lot of 00:55:55.159 --> 00:55:57.880 weird stuff there, too. Here, it's always been 00:55:57.880 --> 00:56:00.380 during the day. We've come up here at night, 00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:03.059 nothing weird happened. During the day is when 00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:05.059 all the weird stuff happened. Yeah, that one 00:56:05.059 --> 00:56:07.090 was always at night. So we're walking through 00:56:07.090 --> 00:56:08.989 there at night because you can walk through there 00:56:08.989 --> 00:56:10.789 at night. It's not closed off because there's 00:56:10.789 --> 00:56:13.409 houses along the side and it borders college 00:56:13.409 --> 00:56:16.369 town and downtown which makes it a liminal area 00:56:16.369 --> 00:56:18.730 on top of everything else. Right. We're walking 00:56:18.730 --> 00:56:21.090 around and suddenly these lights start spinning 00:56:21.090 --> 00:56:25.469 around us like bugs. How big were they? They 00:56:25.469 --> 00:56:30.409 were just little tiny orbs about the size of 00:56:30.409 --> 00:56:33.409 bugs. But there's a ton of them and they're swarming 00:56:33.409 --> 00:56:36.139 around our heads. And they're very clearly not 00:56:36.139 --> 00:56:38.380 bugs. And she looks at me and she's like, are 00:56:38.380 --> 00:56:41.659 you seeing this? And I'm like, the lights? She's 00:56:41.659 --> 00:56:44.500 like, yeah, the lights. And then we look at our 00:56:44.500 --> 00:56:46.039 friend and we're like, are you seeing this? He's 00:56:46.039 --> 00:56:48.579 like, seeing what? We're like, the lights. He's 00:56:48.579 --> 00:56:51.900 like, what lights? And we were meeting up with 00:56:51.900 --> 00:56:53.880 some other friends. And just as we heard one 00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:55.599 of them say something, like, hey, over here or 00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:58.320 whatever, the lights all just darted away suddenly. 00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:01.000 And she looked at me and she's like, did you? 00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:03.139 Like yeah, they just darted away. She's like, 00:57:03.139 --> 00:57:05.500 yeah in different directions. I'm like, uh -huh. 00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:08.440 Yeah So we were able to coordinate that we were 00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:11.099 seeing the exact same thing, but yet the other 00:57:11.099 --> 00:57:15.460 person with us saw nothing Wow and that that 00:57:15.460 --> 00:57:18.400 that ties in with with, you know other orb sightings 00:57:18.400 --> 00:57:23.260 like a lot of people talk about seeing orbs and 00:57:23.260 --> 00:57:27.079 and Reporting that the orbs understand what they're 00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:29.639 thinking. Yeah. So in that moment when you were 00:57:29.690 --> 00:57:31.809 You know looking and paying attention all of 00:57:31.809 --> 00:57:33.750 a sudden they disappeared. It sounds like you 00:57:33.750 --> 00:57:35.250 know Well, they did they disappeared when we 00:57:35.250 --> 00:57:40.150 came up to our other friends, right? right It's 00:57:40.150 --> 00:57:43.889 almost like oh more people by Yep, I've seen 00:57:43.889 --> 00:57:45.829 lots of orbs in that graveyard. That's one of 00:57:45.829 --> 00:57:48.030 the more common things that in shadow people. 00:57:48.789 --> 00:57:52.530 Yeah That's not cynical like that's the end of 00:57:52.530 --> 00:57:55.130 Cayuga Lake, right? But it's right. It's it's 00:57:55.130 --> 00:57:57.670 in the same neighborhood and it's it's a It's 00:57:57.670 --> 00:57:59.650 a valid story for this i'm really interested 00:57:59.650 --> 00:58:01.909 in that weird thing that you heard up in the 00:58:01.909 --> 00:58:05.730 tree up in the trees because that's I mean A 00:58:05.730 --> 00:58:08.989 tree shaking is weird. Yes, but that sounds like 00:58:08.989 --> 00:58:12.710 it was some kind of monkey monkey. Yeah, exactly 00:58:12.710 --> 00:58:14.949 And that's the thing the other experiences I 00:58:14.949 --> 00:58:18.829 was having all revolved around monkeys And so 00:58:18.829 --> 00:58:22.190 I was like What is going on and I didn't realize 00:58:22.190 --> 00:58:24.070 it until I was working on my autobiography and 00:58:24.070 --> 00:58:26.750 i'm going There was this and then this and then 00:58:26.750 --> 00:58:29.510 this and then this and they're all they seem 00:58:29.510 --> 00:58:32.210 to have this monkey theme going through them 00:58:32.210 --> 00:58:35.949 hmm Maybe that's your I don't know. Is that your 00:58:35.949 --> 00:58:39.110 spirit animal or your spirit something? There's 00:58:39.110 --> 00:58:41.349 something monkeys are got to be meaningful to 00:58:41.349 --> 00:58:45.369 you somehow. I Mean sort of we used we used to 00:58:45.369 --> 00:58:48.949 do I mean Like my one friend Dave called himself 00:58:48.949 --> 00:58:53.900 the Almighty Monkey Yes, so there's that okay 00:58:53.900 --> 00:59:01.340 Yeah, that's um I Love those stories and and 00:59:01.340 --> 00:59:03.380 I've never had any experiences here, but I haven't 00:59:03.380 --> 00:59:05.340 spent anywhere near as much time as you I'm sure 00:59:05.340 --> 00:59:07.880 yeah Yeah, and I haven't had anything yet. Well, 00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:10.780 I had one experience I can't talk about a couple 00:59:10.780 --> 00:59:12.739 of years ago just because it's very personal 00:59:12.739 --> 00:59:15.539 Okay, that's the only recent experience I had 00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:18.760 and it was something very subtle but also very 00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:23.369 meaningful type of thing. OK. And that was here, 00:59:23.449 --> 00:59:25.309 too? Yeah, that was here at night. That's the 00:59:25.309 --> 00:59:28.989 only one I've had at night, actually. OK, because 00:59:28.989 --> 00:59:31.650 I just said I had worked on a computer customer 00:59:31.650 --> 00:59:34.329 down the road as I was coming back. It was almost 00:59:34.329 --> 00:59:37.530 midnight. And I said, it's nice. I'm going to 00:59:37.530 --> 00:59:41.469 walk up there. Yeah. And then, yeah, a couple 00:59:41.469 --> 00:59:44.090 of weird things happened. And I was like, cool. 00:59:44.369 --> 00:59:49.300 All right. Yeah, this place must be really. Cool 00:59:49.300 --> 00:59:55.199 and I very dark I Tried to take pictures on night 00:59:55.199 --> 00:59:57.980 shot and just got like vague outlines of the 00:59:57.980 --> 01:00:03.829 trees Okay, so that was part one of my conversation 01:00:03.829 --> 01:00:07.050 with Soraya at the Willard Cemetery. Thank you 01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:09.530 so much for listening. I hope you all enjoyed 01:00:09.530 --> 01:00:11.989 it as much as I did. And if you want to learn 01:00:11.989 --> 01:00:14.650 more about Soraya and his show, Where Did the 01:00:14.650 --> 01:00:16.949 Road Go?, his podcast, and everything else, go 01:00:16.949 --> 01:00:20.489 to wheredidtherodgo .com. You'll find his link 01:00:20.489 --> 01:00:22.789 tree there and that'll bring you to everything, 01:00:22.989 --> 01:00:25.849 all the different projects that he works on. 01:00:26.110 --> 01:00:28.190 He's a real interesting guy. He's been at this 01:00:28.190 --> 01:00:32.909 for years. And yeah, check out everything that 01:00:32.909 --> 01:00:35.809 he does. And again, thank you so much for listening, 01:00:35.869 --> 01:00:39.530 for all your comments and messages and feedback. 01:00:39.969 --> 01:00:42.929 I really, truly appreciate it. And again, if 01:00:42.929 --> 01:00:46.409 you want to get a hold of me, send an email to 01:00:46.409 --> 01:00:50.070 podcast at Seneca Lake mysteries dot com, or 01:00:50.070 --> 01:00:57.510 you can call and leave a voicemail 607 307. 1167. 01:00:58.309 --> 01:01:00.110 So I'll talk to you next time.