WEBVTT 00:00:16.329 --> 00:00:19.050 Hey, welcome to Seneca Lake Mysteries, the podcast 00:00:19.050 --> 00:00:22.329 where we explore the unusual, strange, and unexplained 00:00:22.329 --> 00:00:25.250 on New York's largest finger lake. I want to 00:00:25.250 --> 00:00:28.390 thank you for listening and subscribing and commenting 00:00:28.390 --> 00:00:32.070 and for appreciating and recognizing the curious 00:00:32.070 --> 00:00:34.689 history and weird phenomena from around Seneca 00:00:34.689 --> 00:00:38.289 Lake. In this episode, following up on the recent 00:00:38.289 --> 00:00:41.159 announcement that researchers from Cornell and 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:44.060 SUNY ESF will be studying recently discovered 00:00:44.060 --> 00:00:47.079 holes in the bottom of Seneca Lake and their 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:50.659 possible link to the Seneca drums mystery. We 00:00:50.659 --> 00:00:52.920 will go deeper into the history of the Seneca 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:55.859 drums, the theories that try to explain the phenomenon, 00:00:56.020 --> 00:01:00.060 and the time in 2009 when the U .S. government 00:01:00.060 --> 00:01:03.020 said, right now we don't understand what makes 00:01:03.020 --> 00:01:06.280 the Seneca drums. Next, I'll have a new type 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:08.400 of segment where I'll highlight some locally 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:11.239 produced beers, wines, and spirits that are named 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:14.379 after some of the unusual, strange, and unexplained 00:01:14.379 --> 00:01:17.159 stories around Seneca Lake. And then finally, 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:19.159 we'll run through the history of the Seneca white 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.340 deer at the former Seneca Army Depot. We'll look 00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:24.439 at how the deer got there, how they survived, 00:01:24.859 --> 00:01:28.459 and how white deer have been sacred spiritual 00:01:28.459 --> 00:01:31.780 symbols in numerous cultures around the world 00:01:31.780 --> 00:01:35.549 for millennia. Then I'll talk about my own experience 00:01:35.549 --> 00:01:37.969 when I was part of the first tour offered to 00:01:37.969 --> 00:01:40.670 the general public at the former nuclear weapons 00:01:40.670 --> 00:01:43.950 storage facility called the Q Area, including 00:01:43.950 --> 00:01:47.569 a completely unexpected meeting with a wee white 00:01:47.569 --> 00:01:51.049 deer. So if you enjoy the show, please subscribe 00:01:51.049 --> 00:01:53.569 wherever you get your podcasts and get over to 00:01:53.569 --> 00:01:56.609 SenecaLakeMysteries .com and sign up for the 00:01:56.609 --> 00:01:58.769 mailing list, which is the best way to make sure 00:01:58.769 --> 00:02:02.140 you don't miss a story, podcast, or update. You 00:02:02.140 --> 00:02:04.420 can also find links to all my social media when 00:02:04.420 --> 00:02:08.639 you visit SenecaLakeMysteries .com. You can email 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:12.560 me, podcast at SenecaLakeMysteries .com, and 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.120 you can also leave a voicemail, and the phone 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:22.759 number is 607 -307 -1167. Thanks again for listening, 00:02:22.860 --> 00:02:30.169 and let's get into it. So in the last episode, 00:02:30.189 --> 00:02:34.150 I talked a bit about the Seneca drums phenomenon 00:02:34.150 --> 00:02:37.150 and the history of it, but I didn't get too deep 00:02:37.150 --> 00:02:40.110 into the details. And of course, that discussion 00:02:40.110 --> 00:02:44.330 was prompted by the recent release of research 00:02:44.330 --> 00:02:47.210 results that were done by a team that explored 00:02:47.210 --> 00:02:51.590 and mapped Seneca Lakes. bottom from 2018 to 00:02:51.590 --> 00:02:55.849 2024. Now this group by the end of 2022 had identified 00:02:55.849 --> 00:02:59.669 more than 40 intact 19th century wooden shipwrecks 00:02:59.669 --> 00:03:03.729 and then in 2024 they went back and they completed 00:03:03.729 --> 00:03:07.810 a systematic examination of all those shipwrecks 00:03:07.810 --> 00:03:11.250 and were able to complete a 3D image capture 00:03:11.250 --> 00:03:14.909 of each of those shipwrecks. And one of the wrecks 00:03:14.909 --> 00:03:17.129 that I find most interesting is in about 600 00:03:17.129 --> 00:03:20.199 feet of water near one of the deepest spots in 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:23.000 the lake lies a steamboat that's sitting upright 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:25.960 and still has its machinery intact and aboard. 00:03:26.259 --> 00:03:28.659 But probably the most compelling piece of information 00:03:28.659 --> 00:03:31.780 that came out of this study was the discovery 00:03:31.780 --> 00:03:36.580 of a field of nearly 70 indentations or pockmarks, 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:40.379 each one roughly 30 feet deep and 400 feet across, 00:03:40.699 --> 00:03:43.780 that lie in the bottom of Seneca Lake, roughly 00:03:43.780 --> 00:03:46.680 in the area of the Banana Belt. Now, researchers 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.300 aren't entirely sure what may have created these 00:03:50.300 --> 00:03:53.360 formations in the bottom of the lake. But the 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:55.099 primary theory that they're looking at right 00:03:55.099 --> 00:03:58.539 now is that there's a natural gas deposit thousands 00:03:58.539 --> 00:04:03.740 of feet below the lake. And those deposits are 00:04:03.740 --> 00:04:06.620 releasing natural gas through the bottom of the 00:04:06.620 --> 00:04:09.680 lake. And when those gas bubbles get closer to 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:12.520 the surface, they expand and they make a booming 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:15.099 noise, which would explain the Seneca Lake drum. 00:04:15.629 --> 00:04:18.250 And there's going to be a research team going 00:04:18.250 --> 00:04:21.689 back and looking inside of these pockmarks or 00:04:21.689 --> 00:04:25.029 holes to see if there are traces of natural gas, 00:04:25.149 --> 00:04:28.389 methane, or anything else that may help explain 00:04:28.389 --> 00:04:31.170 the Seneca drums. And it's important to note 00:04:31.170 --> 00:04:34.269 that these pockmarks and holes in Seneca Lake 00:04:34.269 --> 00:04:38.509 are only concentrated in that area at the southern 00:04:38.509 --> 00:04:41.389 part of the lake. There are other holes in the 00:04:41.389 --> 00:04:44.569 lake, other areas where holes and indentations 00:04:44.569 --> 00:04:48.350 exist. But this field of pockmarks is remarkable 00:04:48.350 --> 00:04:51.930 because when you look at the image, many of these 00:04:51.930 --> 00:04:55.329 holes are perfectly round or seem to be close 00:04:55.329 --> 00:04:58.990 to perfectly round, all arranged in this relatively 00:04:58.990 --> 00:05:02.170 small area close together. Now, when I posted 00:05:02.170 --> 00:05:05.470 about the findings and I posted an image from 00:05:05.470 --> 00:05:08.050 the lake bottom, put it up on Facebook to see 00:05:08.050 --> 00:05:10.910 what people thought, I got some interesting responses 00:05:10.910 --> 00:05:13.670 as far as what people thought may have caused. 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:16.500 these holes in the first place. One suggestion 00:05:16.500 --> 00:05:20.000 was that these marks were caused by the U .S. 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:22.779 military testing depth charges in Seneca Lake, 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:25.980 which could be a possibility, although the military 00:05:25.980 --> 00:05:30.019 presence on the lake, Sampson, is located much 00:05:30.019 --> 00:05:32.740 further north than where these pockmarks are. 00:05:32.939 --> 00:05:36.939 So I don't know if at one time the military was 00:05:36.939 --> 00:05:39.779 testing depth charges towards the southern end 00:05:39.779 --> 00:05:41.920 of the lake. But hey, it's not a bad theory. 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:45.310 Another suggestion was that All these indentations 00:05:45.310 --> 00:05:49.230 are old plunge pools from waterfalls, which would 00:05:49.230 --> 00:05:52.990 indicate that sometime in the distant past when 00:05:52.990 --> 00:05:55.870 Seneca Lake was forming, there were dozens of 00:05:55.870 --> 00:05:59.769 waterfalls that were all landing in this concentrated 00:05:59.769 --> 00:06:03.829 area and created these dozens of pockmarks from 00:06:03.829 --> 00:06:06.350 dozens of waterfalls. Out of all the theories, 00:06:06.430 --> 00:06:09.310 I think this one may be the most plausible, although 00:06:09.310 --> 00:06:13.250 I have no training or... education and geology 00:06:13.250 --> 00:06:15.790 or anything like that. Seems like it could be 00:06:15.790 --> 00:06:19.310 a possibility. And of course, some people accept 00:06:19.310 --> 00:06:21.829 the current working theory, which is that these 00:06:21.829 --> 00:06:26.250 pockmarks were created by natural gas leaking 00:06:26.250 --> 00:06:29.050 through the lake bottom and somehow creating 00:06:29.050 --> 00:06:32.350 these massive pockmarks. I'm not sure exactly 00:06:32.350 --> 00:06:34.810 how that would work. If there's anyone out there 00:06:34.810 --> 00:06:38.050 who understands geology and these kind of things, 00:06:38.170 --> 00:06:41.139 I'd... Love to have it explained to me a little 00:06:41.139 --> 00:06:43.019 more clearly. Not saying that I don't believe 00:06:43.019 --> 00:06:47.000 it. I just don't understand how the rising gases 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.180 would create indentations in the bottom of the 00:06:50.180 --> 00:06:52.740 lake. Now, the theory that natural gas bubbles 00:06:52.740 --> 00:06:56.720 cause the Seneca drums is a theory that's been 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:59.740 around for well over 100 years. And for this 00:06:59.740 --> 00:07:01.939 episode, I want to dive a little more deeply 00:07:01.939 --> 00:07:05.519 into the history of the Seneca drums and into 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:10.089 the history of... the natural gas theory to explain 00:07:10.089 --> 00:07:13.290 the Seneca drums. And although the theory of 00:07:13.290 --> 00:07:16.610 natural gas causing the Seneca drums is just 00:07:16.610 --> 00:07:19.709 a theory that has not been proven, you'll still 00:07:19.709 --> 00:07:22.149 find a lot of writings and a lot of opinions 00:07:22.149 --> 00:07:25.730 expressed by people who seem to believe that 00:07:25.730 --> 00:07:29.290 this theory is actually proven and that the Seneca 00:07:29.290 --> 00:07:31.709 drums are no longer a mystery. So let's look 00:07:31.709 --> 00:07:34.529 a little more deeply into the theory, how long 00:07:34.529 --> 00:07:36.769 it's been around. and how much evidence there 00:07:36.769 --> 00:07:41.009 really is for the theory. So the first time the 00:07:41.009 --> 00:07:44.149 Seneca drums phenomenon was brought into the 00:07:44.149 --> 00:07:47.750 public consciousness was in 1850, when James 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:50.670 Fenimore Cooper wrote a satirical short story 00:07:50.670 --> 00:07:53.709 called The Lake Gun. It was a fictional piece 00:07:53.709 --> 00:07:56.970 which poked fun at political demagoguery, and 00:07:56.970 --> 00:07:59.209 it referenced the unexplained booming sounds 00:07:59.209 --> 00:08:01.509 that come from within Seneca Lake that were heard 00:08:01.509 --> 00:08:04.430 by the early European Americans as well as the 00:08:04.430 --> 00:08:07.360 Native people. who lived around the lake, although 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:11.100 Cooper's story was fictional. And he even made 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:14.959 up a legend about the drums that he attributed 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:18.300 in the story to the native people of the area. 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:20.980 Now, as I mentioned in the last episode, these 00:08:20.980 --> 00:08:24.459 lake drums have been described in various ways. 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:27.720 They sound like distant thunder. They sound like 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:31.439 distant gunshots or drums. Now, one of the earliest 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:35.259 newspaper articles I could find was from 1877, 00:08:35.500 --> 00:08:38.039 and it reported that visitors to Watkins Glen 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:41.419 would gather on summer evenings along the hillside 00:08:41.419 --> 00:08:44.559 avenues to, quote, listen to the delightful but 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:47.860 mysterious Seneca Echo, which sounded like a 00:08:47.860 --> 00:08:51.139 mournful murmuring song of the moving billows 00:08:51.139 --> 00:08:55.480 many miles up the lake. Then in 1906, in a story 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:59.379 outlining reports of the Seneca guns, the Geneva 00:08:59.379 --> 00:09:03.340 Gazette claimed that men of quote, unquestioned 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:05.679 integrity, have heard the sounds at intervals 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:08.600 along the shore and at the center of the lake, 00:09:08.700 --> 00:09:11.960 end quote, including a man named Edward, excuse 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:14.220 me, Edwin Becker, who had heard the sounds that 00:09:14.220 --> 00:09:18.360 year. Then in 1908, I found what might be one 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:23.059 of the first references to the Seneca drums being 00:09:23.059 --> 00:09:28.919 tied to natural gas bubbles. So in July 1908, 00:09:29.450 --> 00:09:32.629 A man from Dresden, New York named William Prosser 00:09:32.629 --> 00:09:36.070 was enjoying a Friday night of fishing in his 00:09:36.070 --> 00:09:39.289 boat near Long Point when he decided to light 00:09:39.289 --> 00:09:42.370 his pipe. When he struck the match, he saw a 00:09:42.370 --> 00:09:45.250 flash and heard a deafening roar and suddenly 00:09:45.250 --> 00:09:48.909 both William and his boat went soaring through 00:09:48.909 --> 00:09:52.490 the air before landing among the trees on the 00:09:52.490 --> 00:09:57.190 bank an astonishing 100 yards away. Now William 00:09:57.190 --> 00:10:01.200 was shockingly still alive even though he was 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.960 bruised and bleeding after being launched into 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:07.299 the sky from this massive explosion and traveling 00:10:07.299 --> 00:10:09.980 the length of a football field and crashing on 00:10:09.980 --> 00:10:13.200 land. But even after his miraculous survival, 00:10:13.580 --> 00:10:15.860 William Prosser had enough of his wits about 00:10:15.860 --> 00:10:20.159 him to confidently conclude that the explosion 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:23.899 was caused by volumes of natural gas that had 00:10:23.899 --> 00:10:26.019 bubbled to the surface and when he lit his match. 00:10:26.620 --> 00:10:29.799 it exploded that natural gas. Now, to some extent, 00:10:29.860 --> 00:10:33.940 I find William Prosser's story believable. However, 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:37.840 the fact that he was reported as flying 100 yards 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:41.480 through the air, landing and living, and then 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:44.659 declaring that the explosion was caused by natural 00:10:44.659 --> 00:10:48.399 gas bubbles makes the story a bit less credible 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:52.519 in my mind. However, the natural gas theory really 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:57.399 took hold in 1934. when newspaper headlines around 00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:00.840 the country declared that finally and conclusively 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.720 the puzzle of the Seneca Lake drums had been 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.500 solved through the scientific process. So a Dr. 00:11:07.700 --> 00:11:10.779 Herman L. Fairchild of the University of Rochester 00:11:10.779 --> 00:11:14.399 submitted a report to Science, which was the 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:16.720 official periodical of the American Association 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:26.539 for the Advancement of Science. essentially correct 00:11:26.539 --> 00:11:28.860 that the lake guns were caused by bubbles of 00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:32.139 natural gas escaping from a layer of sandstone 00:11:32.139 --> 00:11:35.440 deep within the earth and that these gas pockets 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.820 would find their way through openings in the 00:11:37.820 --> 00:11:42.279 lake's bottom and then expand up to 20 to 40 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:45.919 times their original volume due to the decreasing 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.379 pressure as they ascended through the water and 00:11:49.379 --> 00:11:51.080 the bubbles would then burst when they reached 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:53.980 the surface resulting in a booming sound. Now, 00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:56.600 in the report, Dr. Fairchild gave credit for 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:00.179 the discovery to A .M. Beebe, who was a geologist 00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:02.200 for the Rochester Gas and Electric Corporation. 00:12:02.539 --> 00:12:05.419 And Beebe had noted that there were a total of 00:12:05.419 --> 00:12:09.259 130 natural gas wells in the vicinity of Dundee, 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:13.259 New York, between Seneca and Keuka Lakes. Beebe 00:12:13.259 --> 00:12:15.799 further noted that due to the volume of natural 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:18.600 gas extracted from the Dundee area gas wells, 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:21.740 the underground pressure of the gas had been 00:12:21.740 --> 00:12:24.519 greatly relieved. And in the previous summer 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:27.860 of 1933, there had been no reports of any sounds 00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:30.460 coming from the lake, which led Beebe to conclude 00:12:30.460 --> 00:12:34.059 that the famous lake guns had been silenced forever. 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.179 And as I mentioned, this report made national 00:12:37.179 --> 00:12:41.620 news and the press excitedly trumpeted the scientific 00:12:41.620 --> 00:12:45.759 triumph and had dramatic headlines such as, quote, 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.659 scientists finally explains the century old mystery 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:52.440 of Seneca Lake's invisible guns, end quote. quote, 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:56.100 science solves old Seneca Lake puzzle, end quote. 00:12:56.259 --> 00:12:58.419 So according to these people, it was all over. 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:02.919 The enigma had been debunked and the drums had 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:06.840 permanently gone quiet. Then in 1940, the Geneva 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:11.000 Gazette reported that a reliable neighbor almost 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.399 had his canoe overturned by a great bubble that 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:15.360 had surfaced in the lake and burst with a loud 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:19.519 noise. Then in 1943, Geneva City historian Eleanor 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:22.740 Kleiss heard the lake drums around midnight on 00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:26.279 the lake's western shore near Dresden. And then 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.580 in the summer of 1947, multiple summer residents 00:13:29.580 --> 00:13:32.799 on the eastern shore near Kandaya and Hector, 00:13:32.899 --> 00:13:35.860 as well as on the west shore near Himrod and 00:13:35.860 --> 00:13:39.080 Glenora, reported hearing the lake drums. So 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:41.279 it didn't take long before the whole theory of 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:45.220 the lake drums being silenced forever was debunked. 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:49.000 And according to many Seneca Lake residents, 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:53.240 These sounds have continued over the years through 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.919 to the present day. Although the number of reports 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:59.240 has declined, they never stopped. Now, there 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:00.960 were some other theories that were put forth 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.559 over the years, claiming that the lake drums 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:08.059 might also be tied to the salt deposits next 00:14:08.059 --> 00:14:12.100 to and underneath Seneca Lake. In 1977, Walter 00:14:12.100 --> 00:14:15.240 K. Long, the director of the Cayuga Museum of 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:17.960 History and Art in Auburn, New York, told the 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:20.019 Associated Press that Seneca Lake is situated 00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:23.820 atop huge salt deposits and many hollow caves, 00:14:24.019 --> 00:14:27.480 and he stated that these deposits were a, quote, 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:30.539 likely source for the noises, end quote. Now, 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.159 Walter Long also claimed to have heard the lake 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.899 drums himself, but he still admitted that neither 00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:38.659 he nor anyone else had been able to figure out 00:14:38.659 --> 00:14:41.820 exactly what caused the sounds, even acknowledging, 00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:47.600 quote, we've all guessed at it, end quote. He 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:51.879 doesn't explain in any detail why salt deposits 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:55.179 sitting below the lake would cause booming noises. 00:14:55.419 --> 00:14:58.039 Which reminds me, and again, I'm not an expert 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:01.340 in this field, but in the research that I've 00:15:01.340 --> 00:15:05.799 done, I see that there's been observations of 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:09.059 natural gas leaks coming from the ocean floor 00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:12.620 and the bubbles of natural gas making sounds 00:15:12.620 --> 00:15:16.620 as they ascend to the surface and pop. However, 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:19.879 in these cases, these are smaller bubbles that 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:23.120 come up. To my knowledge, there's never been 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:27.720 a situation where large bubbles were being released 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:31.220 and observed making their way to the surface 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:35.039 and making exploding noises or booming sounds, 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:38.159 which indicates to me that although the natural 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:41.460 gas theory may be the most likely theory that 00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:44.850 we have, it's still just that, a theory. And 00:15:44.850 --> 00:15:48.450 there really isn't any observed evidence at this 00:15:48.450 --> 00:15:51.649 point that natural gas bubbles would come up 00:15:51.649 --> 00:15:54.870 from the lake floor in large amounts and large 00:15:54.870 --> 00:15:57.889 bubbles that would make these sounds. Now, one 00:15:57.889 --> 00:15:59.789 of my favorite pieces of information I found 00:15:59.789 --> 00:16:04.570 about the Seneca drums comes from what is one 00:16:04.570 --> 00:16:07.669 of the most comprehensive summaries of the phenomena 00:16:07.669 --> 00:16:11.269 and its possible causes. And this report was 00:16:11.269 --> 00:16:14.889 published. in October 2009 on the official website 00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:18.669 of the United States Geological Survey, the USGS. 00:16:18.970 --> 00:16:22.769 So the piece is titled Earthquake Booms, Seneca 00:16:22.769 --> 00:16:26.169 Guns, and Other Sounds, and it explores the reports 00:16:26.169 --> 00:16:29.669 of these booms from around the United States. 00:16:29.830 --> 00:16:32.669 And I'll post a link to this report in the description 00:16:32.669 --> 00:16:36.750 for the podcast. Now, some examples of the booms 00:16:36.750 --> 00:16:40.659 that are mentioned in this report. A 2001 swarm 00:16:40.659 --> 00:16:42.799 of small earthquakes in Spokane, Washington, 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:45.779 which were accompanied by booming sounds. The 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:50.220 1811 to 1812 earthquakes in New Madrid, Missouri, 00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:54.139 which included accounts of artillery -like sounds 00:16:54.139 --> 00:16:58.779 both before and during the earthquakes. An 1886 00:16:58.779 --> 00:17:01.019 earthquake in Charleston, South Carolina, which 00:17:01.019 --> 00:17:03.879 included multiple reports of sounds being heard 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:07.369 prior to the earthquake that began as... trembling 00:17:07.369 --> 00:17:10.829 or murmurs that increase to a roar, as well as 00:17:10.829 --> 00:17:13.990 noises like loud detonations accompanying the 00:17:13.990 --> 00:17:16.930 aftershocks in the following weeks. And of course, 00:17:16.990 --> 00:17:20.690 the Seneca guns, as well as similar booms heard 00:17:20.690 --> 00:17:23.849 on nearby Cayuga Lake and along the coasts of 00:17:23.849 --> 00:17:26.549 North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia. 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:29.210 Now what's so interesting about this piece is 00:17:29.210 --> 00:17:32.569 that it goes over all the possible causes for 00:17:32.569 --> 00:17:35.589 these sounds. So the first one it suggests as 00:17:35.589 --> 00:17:38.980 a possible cause, is the possibility of sonic 00:17:38.980 --> 00:17:42.980 booms from military aircraft. However, it does 00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:45.500 mention that the reports of Seneca drums occurred 00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:49.039 prior to the existence of supersonic jets. Another 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:53.200 possible cause mentioned is military training 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.559 exercises, specifically naval ships firing guns 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:00.200 offshore. And while that explanation might fit 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.839 with the sounds heard along... The southern U 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.480 .S. coastline in the 1800s, early 1900s, it could 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:10.099 not have been the source of the Seneca guns during 00:18:10.099 --> 00:18:13.259 the same time frame due to the lack of military 00:18:13.259 --> 00:18:16.380 vessels on Seneca Lake at that time. Now, although 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:19.180 it's not mentioned in the USGS article, it's 00:18:19.180 --> 00:18:22.140 definitely possible that military exercises being 00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:27.279 undertaken between 1942 and 1956 at Sampson Naval 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:30.640 Base, later Sampson Air Force Base, on the eastern 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.369 shore of Seneca Lake. were mistakenly attributed 00:18:33.369 --> 00:18:37.569 by witnesses to being the Seneca guns, but obviously 00:18:37.569 --> 00:18:41.049 this would not explain all the reports of lake 00:18:41.049 --> 00:18:43.890 drum sounds before and after that 14 -year time 00:18:43.890 --> 00:18:46.410 frame. Now, earthquakes have been cited as a 00:18:46.410 --> 00:18:49.329 possible cause of some of the Seneca drums phenomena 00:18:49.329 --> 00:18:53.849 around the world. However, the USGS states that 00:18:53.849 --> 00:18:57.650 in the cases of these booms that they reviewed, 00:18:57.849 --> 00:19:01.369 none of them were found to match any seismographic 00:19:01.369 --> 00:19:05.910 records. The article goes on discussing other 00:19:05.910 --> 00:19:09.210 potential causes that they eliminate in the piece 00:19:09.210 --> 00:19:13.369 as being the cause of the Seneca drums, including 00:19:13.369 --> 00:19:17.569 tidal waves, landslides off the continental shelf, 00:19:17.849 --> 00:19:21.829 industrial explosions, shifting of tectonic plates, 00:19:22.150 --> 00:19:26.210 new tectonic faults forming, air pockets being 00:19:26.210 --> 00:19:30.910 released, meteors. lightning, and even top secret 00:19:30.910 --> 00:19:34.589 military activity. Now, the USGS does address 00:19:34.589 --> 00:19:37.130 the natural gas bubbles theory that has been 00:19:37.130 --> 00:19:40.950 offered to explain the Seneca Lake sounds, but 00:19:40.950 --> 00:19:44.690 they note that naturally occurring methane gas 00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:48.230 does not come up suddenly enough or in large 00:19:48.230 --> 00:19:51.990 enough amounts to cause booming sounds or explosions. 00:19:52.109 --> 00:19:55.930 But far and away, my favorite part of the entire 00:19:56.589 --> 00:19:59.990 article is the final paragraph, which concludes 00:19:59.990 --> 00:20:04.150 that the Seneca guns phenomenon simply has not 00:20:04.150 --> 00:20:07.609 been explained. And here's the paragraph. And 00:20:07.609 --> 00:20:09.470 remember, this is coming from a government agency, 00:20:09.609 --> 00:20:13.710 the USGS. Quote, there does not appear to be 00:20:13.710 --> 00:20:16.410 any agreement on what causes the Seneca guns. 00:20:16.849 --> 00:20:19.430 They have been occurring in several places around 00:20:19.430 --> 00:20:22.509 the eastern U .S. and in India for at least a 00:20:22.509 --> 00:20:25.390 century or two. As far as I can tell, they have 00:20:25.390 --> 00:20:27.740 worried people. but have never caused damage 00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:31.599 or injury. The earth is a complex place, and 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:33.900 there is a lot about it that we don't understand. 00:20:34.299 --> 00:20:36.980 Perhaps someday we will understand what causes 00:20:36.980 --> 00:20:40.400 Seneca guns, but right now we don't understand 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:44.019 what makes them. However, they do not seem to 00:20:44.019 --> 00:20:47.539 pose a threat to anyone. So that was in 2009. 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:51.500 We're now in 2025, and the mystery of Seneca 00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:54.670 drums still hasn't been solved. And really, the 00:20:54.670 --> 00:20:57.630 biggest point that I want to make is that the 00:20:57.630 --> 00:21:01.869 natural gas theory of the Seneca drums is based 00:21:01.869 --> 00:21:06.210 on the assertion that the Seneca drums stopped 00:21:06.210 --> 00:21:11.289 when natural gas was extracted from areas around 00:21:11.289 --> 00:21:14.869 the lake. The whole theory hinges on this claim 00:21:14.869 --> 00:21:18.009 that nobody hears the Seneca Lake drums anymore. 00:21:18.369 --> 00:21:21.750 Well, this is not true. People do hear the Seneca 00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:25.119 Lake drums. To this day, I've spoken with people 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:27.220 who've heard them recently. And then a while 00:21:27.220 --> 00:21:30.180 back, I saw a video online. It was a short video 00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:32.680 of one of the tour guides at the Finger Lakes 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:35.539 Welcome Center in Geneva on the shore of Seneca 00:21:35.539 --> 00:21:39.099 Lake speaking to a visitor and explaining to 00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:43.160 them that the Seneca drums are natural gas bubbles 00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:45.960 coming up from the bottom of the lake. This tour 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.220 guide was speaking with utmost confidence, saying 00:21:49.220 --> 00:21:52.140 that... Nobody hears the lake drums anymore after 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:55.019 the drilling was done and the mystery was solved. 00:21:55.299 --> 00:21:57.539 And when this visitor mentions that they had 00:21:57.539 --> 00:22:01.480 heard these sounds, the tour guide says, well, 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:04.900 then you heard one of the gas bubbles. Now, nothing 00:22:04.900 --> 00:22:07.099 personal against this tour guide. They're doing 00:22:07.099 --> 00:22:08.579 what they were taught. They're doing what their 00:22:08.579 --> 00:22:11.859 job is. But they're misinforming people when 00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:14.799 they make this claim that nobody hears the lake 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.960 drums anymore. People do hear them. And whenever 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:20.619 I hear someone claim that. The lake drums were 00:22:20.619 --> 00:22:23.960 silenced years ago. It feels to me like gaslighting. 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:27.380 Natural gaslighting, if you will, but gaslighting 00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:31.039 nonetheless. Bottom line is right now, the Seneca 00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:34.240 drums are a mystery. We don't know what causes 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.500 them. Now, there will be more research done here 00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:40.480 in the near future, and maybe that will help 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.420 solidify the natural gas theory. But right now, 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:53.069 the Seneca drums remain a mystery. So for this 00:22:53.069 --> 00:22:54.670 segment, I want to do something a little bit 00:22:54.670 --> 00:22:58.470 different. I want to spotlight some of the businesses 00:22:58.470 --> 00:23:02.390 in the Seneca Lake area who are in some way acknowledging 00:23:02.390 --> 00:23:06.089 and celebrating the unusual, strange, and unexplained 00:23:06.089 --> 00:23:09.390 history of the region. Now, keep in mind, these 00:23:09.390 --> 00:23:12.410 are unsolicited recommendations. I haven't spoken 00:23:12.410 --> 00:23:15.089 with any of these companies, told them I was 00:23:15.089 --> 00:23:18.789 going to be doing this. Of course, anything that 00:23:18.789 --> 00:23:21.329 is discussed on this podcast does not reflect. 00:23:21.740 --> 00:23:24.599 the opinions of any of these companies that I'm 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.059 going to mention. And they didn't ask me to do 00:23:27.059 --> 00:23:29.359 this, but I'm going to do it anyway. And for 00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:35.200 starters, I want to begin with a few of the beer 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.640 producing companies in the area. And these are 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.720 in no particular order. I'm going to start with 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.640 a beer that is produced by Scale House Brewery 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.299 over in Hector, New York. The beer is called 00:23:48.299 --> 00:23:51.259 Lake Monster Lager. And they have it on tap. 00:23:51.299 --> 00:23:53.539 They have it in cans. The artwork on the can 00:23:53.539 --> 00:23:57.480 is really cool. It has kind of a vintage cartoon 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:00.359 look to it. And if you're interested in trying 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.960 Lake Monster Lager, you can learn everything 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:06.960 you need to know at scalehousebrews .com. Now, 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:10.700 another beer, actually, an IPA that I want to 00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:14.480 mention is produced by War Horse Brewing Company, 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.200 which is part of the Three Brothers Winery. And 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.500 it's called It Came from Seneca Lake, Quad IPA. 00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:24.240 Now, the artwork on these cans are also fantastic. 00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:31.599 It's kind of a vintage comic book style, an illustration 00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:35.500 that shows these big tentacles coming from the 00:24:35.500 --> 00:24:40.519 lake and hovering over and winding through the 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:43.319 streets of downtown Geneva. So that's another 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:47.240 one. It's called It Came from Seneca Lake Quad 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:51.079 IPA. And you can find out more info if you go 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:56.579 to www .3brotherswinery .com. And finally, on 00:24:56.579 --> 00:25:01.799 the list for beer producers is Lake Drum Brewing 00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:06.700 in Geneva, New York. And Lake Drum produces beers 00:25:06.700 --> 00:25:10.500 and ciders. And if you want to learn more about 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:13.519 Lake Drum Brewing. You can go to lakedrumbrewing 00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:18.160 .com. So moving on to the wine producers. We'll 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.299 start with J .R. Dill Winery in Burdette. And 00:25:22.299 --> 00:25:25.500 they actually have a line of wines that are called 00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:28.500 Jabberwocky. Now this is based on a character 00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:32.039 from a Lewis Carroll novel called Through the 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.759 Looking Glass. And the creature in that novel 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:38.660 was called the Jabberwock. So J .R. Dill is kind 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:41.619 of tipping their hat to Jabberwocky. And also 00:25:41.619 --> 00:25:45.819 the artwork shows sort of a winged creature kind 00:25:45.819 --> 00:25:51.180 of rising from the lake. And Jabberwocky is available 00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:55.380 in white, red, and a carbonated blush called 00:25:55.380 --> 00:25:59.019 Jabberwocky Rise. You can find these wines and 00:25:59.019 --> 00:26:03.400 learn more at jrdillwinery .com. And now we're 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:06.420 going to move to a couple of the more prominent 00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:09.720 haunted locations on Seneca Lake. And we'll start 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.910 with... Miles Winery, which is in Hemrod, and 00:26:13.910 --> 00:26:17.269 they have a wine called Ghost, and it's a white 00:26:17.269 --> 00:26:20.730 wine. It's based on the various ghost stories 00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:25.130 that have been told around the Miles Winery mansion 00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:29.210 for many, many years. The labeling on Ghost White 00:26:29.210 --> 00:26:32.950 is really wonderful, too. Depending on how the 00:26:32.950 --> 00:26:35.650 light hits it, it shows kind of an image of a 00:26:35.650 --> 00:26:39.940 ghost moving through the wine bottle. Hard to 00:26:39.940 --> 00:26:42.940 explain, but you can find Ghost White and you 00:26:42.940 --> 00:26:47.259 can learn more at mileswinecellars .com. And 00:26:47.259 --> 00:26:50.339 then, of course, we have from Bellhurst Castle 00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:54.980 and Winery, Isabella Sparkling Rosé. Now, Isabella 00:26:54.980 --> 00:27:00.019 was or is the legendary ghost that haunts the 00:27:00.019 --> 00:27:02.400 grounds of Bellhurst Castle and down along the 00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:06.400 shore. As the story goes, Isabella was a opera 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:10.259 singer who moved. from Spain to the United States 00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:13.980 and stayed at Bellhurst. And at some point when 00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:15.900 the authorities came for her and her lover, they 00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:17.940 tried to escape through a tunnel. The tunnel 00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:21.920 collapsed and Isabella was killed. There's lots 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:24.839 and lots of other stories of hauntings at Bellhurst 00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:28.880 Castle. And you can learn more by going to www 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:34.119 .bellhurst .com. And finally, we'll move on to 00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:40.019 spirits. We have Finger Lakes Distilling Company 00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:45.119 down in Burdette that produces a gin called Seneca 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:49.759 Drums Gin. It's an award -winning gin. It's made 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:55.200 from grapes from the area as well as botanicals. 00:27:55.900 --> 00:27:59.359 And, of course, it celebrates legend of the Seneca 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.160 Drums. And if you want to learn more or get your 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:05.140 hands on some Seneca Drums Gin, you can go to 00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:09.119 Finger Lakes Distilling. So yeah, that's just 00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:13.299 the short list that I've compiled to date. If 00:28:13.299 --> 00:28:15.940 you have any suggestions, if I missed any, if 00:28:15.940 --> 00:28:18.519 there are other companies out there making beverages 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.140 that tip their hats to the weird and unusual 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:25.059 history of Seneca Lake, please let me know. I 00:28:25.059 --> 00:28:27.180 mean, there's got to be somebody out there who's 00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:30.319 serving meals. They have a sandwich named after 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:32.420 the lake monster or something like that. I'd 00:28:32.420 --> 00:28:35.210 love to see any cannabis companies. in the Seneca 00:28:35.210 --> 00:28:38.089 Lake area, maybe name a strain after the lake 00:28:38.089 --> 00:28:40.369 monster or something else to do with the strange 00:28:40.369 --> 00:28:42.750 history of Seneca Lake. So yeah, send a message, 00:28:42.789 --> 00:28:44.769 send an email, give me a call, let me know if 00:28:44.769 --> 00:28:52.630 there are any others that I missed. So last episode, 00:28:52.690 --> 00:28:56.150 we talked about the Seneca Army Depot in Romulus 00:28:56.150 --> 00:28:59.650 and its history as one of the primary munitions 00:28:59.650 --> 00:29:03.269 depots in America, providing weapons and other 00:29:03.269 --> 00:29:07.000 supplies for Every U .S. military action from 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.779 World War II through the First Gulf War. Now 00:29:10.779 --> 00:29:13.579 we move on to the story of the iconic Seneca 00:29:13.579 --> 00:29:17.039 white deer. So when the Seneca Army Depot was 00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:21.400 built in 1941, a 24 -mile fence was put up around 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:24.579 the area to keep intruders out. But at the same 00:29:24.579 --> 00:29:27.720 time, it essentially entrapped a population of 00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:32.339 white -tailed deer who would now live in... breed 00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:36.119 within one of the most secure military facilities 00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:39.900 on earth. But it turned out that among these 00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:44.180 newly captive white -tailed deer were some who 00:29:44.180 --> 00:29:47.900 carried a recessive gene that causes leucism, 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:50.500 a condition in which the animal doesn't have 00:29:50.500 --> 00:29:53.759 the cells capable of making pigment, which turns 00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:56.440 their coats white in color instead of brown. 00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:06.279 the cells are unable to produce melanin. But 00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:09.319 with leucism, the cells aren't able to produce 00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:13.539 any pigmentation at all. So it turned out that 00:30:13.539 --> 00:30:16.940 the white deer that were living on the depot's 00:30:16.940 --> 00:30:20.119 land early on, the numbers were either too small 00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:23.140 or the deer themselves were too elusive to be 00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:27.359 spotted. But then in 1949, an officer at the 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.250 depot witnessed something that At the time, it 00:30:30.250 --> 00:30:32.069 must have been pretty mind -blowing for him. 00:30:32.109 --> 00:30:35.289 He saw two white deer, one male and one female, 00:30:35.509 --> 00:30:39.210 together on the grounds of the depot. And shortly 00:30:39.210 --> 00:30:42.170 thereafter, Colonel Franklin Kemble, who was 00:30:42.170 --> 00:30:44.730 the commanding officer of the depot, issued an 00:30:44.730 --> 00:30:47.109 order that prohibited any hunting of the white 00:30:47.109 --> 00:30:51.049 deer. And that decision was critical in ensuring 00:30:51.049 --> 00:30:55.569 the continued existence of the white deer population. 00:30:57.740 --> 00:31:00.079 The decision to prohibit deer hunting at the 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:02.720 depot ended up being revisited a few years later 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:06.880 because in the winter of 1955, more than a thousand 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:10.920 deer died due to lack of food from overforaging 00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:15.440 and the large population as well as harsh weather. 00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:19.000 So in response, the U .S. Army began developing 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.000 a deer management plan with help from Cornell 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.319 University and the New York State Conservation 00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:29.829 Department. They began allowing annual deer hunts 00:31:29.829 --> 00:31:33.670 in 1956 by servicemen to keep the deer population 00:31:33.670 --> 00:31:36.750 on the base below 900, which was believed to 00:31:36.750 --> 00:31:40.529 be the maximum capacity for the 17 square mile 00:31:40.529 --> 00:31:43.549 site. And at first, only brown deer were allowed 00:31:43.549 --> 00:31:46.269 to be hunted, but later some white deer were 00:31:46.269 --> 00:31:49.630 harvested as well. And it turned out that this 00:31:49.630 --> 00:31:51.910 deer management plan used at the depot was the 00:31:51.910 --> 00:31:54.910 basis of deer management efforts used around 00:31:54.910 --> 00:31:58.990 New York State. because the deer, the white deer, 00:31:59.069 --> 00:32:02.170 were wild but also captive. So researchers and 00:32:02.170 --> 00:32:04.230 scientists were able to experiment with various 00:32:04.230 --> 00:32:07.170 population control methods, including genetic 00:32:07.170 --> 00:32:10.809 studies and fertility control, contraceptive 00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:13.950 methods. It turned out that the fertility control 00:32:13.950 --> 00:32:17.750 effort was too expensive and impractical. So 00:32:17.750 --> 00:32:21.349 the best option was hunting with regulations, 00:32:21.410 --> 00:32:24.069 and that's a policy that's since been adopted 00:32:24.069 --> 00:32:27.460 statewide. So the white deer population at the 00:32:27.460 --> 00:32:31.220 depot eventually increased to around 300, but 00:32:31.220 --> 00:32:34.759 after the depot was decommissioned and closed, 00:32:35.180 --> 00:32:38.579 the fences started collapsing and deteriorating, 00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:42.579 and many of the white deer escaped and got hit 00:32:42.579 --> 00:32:47.220 by cars or ended up being hunted. However, over 00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:49.579 the years, a series of advocates for the white 00:32:49.579 --> 00:32:53.839 deer came forward, and eventually they've established... 00:32:54.140 --> 00:32:57.259 Seneca Army Depot as a natural preserve where 00:32:57.259 --> 00:33:01.160 the white deer can survive and thrive. And the 00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.240 latest estimates place the white deer population 00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:09.799 at around 80 to 100 with new fawns being born 00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:13.220 every year. So what is it about white deer that 00:33:13.220 --> 00:33:16.440 makes them so fascinating and that causes excitement 00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:21.039 when they're spotted? It could be, I think, something 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:24.920 about them that touches our subconscious or triggers 00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:27.700 a response in us on a very deeply human level 00:33:27.700 --> 00:33:31.779 because white deer have been part of stories 00:33:31.779 --> 00:33:38.240 and myths often tied to the supernatural in cultures 00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:42.759 around the world and throughout time. Celtic 00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:45.640 and Hungarian history, the white stag appears 00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:48.559 and leads heroes on their journeys. The legend 00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:51.480 of King Arthur includes... Several appearances 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:55.640 of the white stag in Kamakura, Japan. The origin 00:33:55.640 --> 00:34:00.400 of the Buddhist temple, Enkaikuji, revolves around 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:03.200 a group of white deer who came out of a cave 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:07.059 to hear the founder of the temple speak. The 00:34:07.059 --> 00:34:09.780 Lenape people from northeastern U .S. believed 00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:14.059 that seeing two all -white deer indicated a time 00:34:14.059 --> 00:34:16.679 when the original people would come together 00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.480 and share knowledge and wisdom with the world. 00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:22.159 The Ojibwe people believe that the white deer 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:25.340 reminds us of the sacredness of all living things. 00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:28.380 In China and Korea, seeing a white deer brings 00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:31.019 good luck. There are many, many more stories 00:34:31.019 --> 00:34:34.940 around the world, but overall, white deer have 00:34:34.940 --> 00:34:37.820 symbolized a connection to nature and to the 00:34:37.820 --> 00:34:41.380 divine for many people for a very long time. 00:34:41.900 --> 00:34:44.780 So I'll stop here and provide an unsolicited 00:34:44.780 --> 00:34:49.440 advertisement for Deerhaven Park. It's located 00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:52.739 on about 7 ,000 acres of the former depot, and 00:34:52.739 --> 00:34:56.179 they give tours. They have a welcome center, 00:34:56.260 --> 00:34:59.079 a museum that celebrates the history, the military 00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:00.920 history of the depot, as well as the history 00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:03.739 of the white deer. There's no other place like 00:35:03.739 --> 00:35:06.699 it in the world. I highly recommend you pay a 00:35:06.699 --> 00:35:09.099 visit when you can, take a car tour, a bus tour, 00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:12.219 a walking tour, whatever. It's well worth the 00:35:12.219 --> 00:35:16.199 trip, and you can find out more info at deerhavenpark 00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:20.550 .org. And now I'm going to share one of my own 00:35:20.550 --> 00:35:25.389 stories of a special tour I took at Deerhaven 00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:29.389 Park last year and a weird encounter we had with 00:35:29.389 --> 00:35:33.650 a white deer. So it was in July 2024. Deerhaven 00:35:33.650 --> 00:35:36.570 Park announced that for the first time, members 00:35:36.570 --> 00:35:39.550 of the public would be able to tour inside the 00:35:39.550 --> 00:35:43.289 queue area of the Seneca Army Depot. It was called 00:35:43.289 --> 00:35:46.590 the Queue Tour, 80 Years of Secrecy Revealed. 00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.719 And as I discussed in the last episode, the Q 00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:53.579 area was where nuclear weapons and nuclear materials 00:35:53.579 --> 00:35:58.179 were stored from 1956 until the depot closed 00:35:58.179 --> 00:36:03.460 in the 1990s. It was one of the most highly secured 00:36:03.460 --> 00:36:06.639 military facilities in the world. Currently, 00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:11.820 the property within the Q area is leased by First 00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:15.869 Light, a fiber internet company. And a representative 00:36:15.869 --> 00:36:19.250 of First Light actually ended up guiding the 00:36:19.250 --> 00:36:23.090 tour of the queue area. Now, before this tour, 00:36:23.210 --> 00:36:26.250 the only people who had been allowed inside the 00:36:26.250 --> 00:36:29.110 queue area were First Light employees, other 00:36:29.110 --> 00:36:32.090 workers or people who leased space within the 00:36:32.090 --> 00:36:37.530 area, and members of the 295th Military Police 00:36:37.530 --> 00:36:40.489 who toured the queue when they had returned to 00:36:40.489 --> 00:36:43.800 the area for a reunion. And there had been some 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:46.360 other people who likely had been inside the area 00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.139 after it closed, you know, people from the county, 00:36:49.260 --> 00:36:52.820 what have you, who were there during the time 00:36:52.820 --> 00:36:55.960 when they were deciding what to do with the old 00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:59.920 depot. So on the day of the tour, me and the 00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.559 other visitors that were taking the tour, probably 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:06.320 40 to 50 of us loaded onto a flat open air wagon 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:10.260 that was being pulled by a large truck. And so 00:37:10.260 --> 00:37:14.219 in the blazing July sun, they took us into the 00:37:14.219 --> 00:37:16.719 queue area. They showed us the entrance gate, 00:37:16.900 --> 00:37:19.860 numerous buildings. Some of the buildings were 00:37:19.860 --> 00:37:22.880 abandoned. Some were being used by First Light 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:28.440 or other tenants. We saw the specialized reinforced 00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:33.579 storage igloos that held the large percentage 00:37:33.579 --> 00:37:36.019 of the U .S. military's nuclear materials for 00:37:36.019 --> 00:37:40.760 over 40 years. They showed us the modified storage 00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:45.199 igloo that houses a first light data center. 00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:47.699 So it has electricity and climate control and 00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:50.380 security and all of that running into it. So 00:37:50.380 --> 00:37:52.340 we saw a lot of cool things. I'm going to talk 00:37:52.340 --> 00:37:55.460 about some of this in a future episode. But our 00:37:55.460 --> 00:38:00.059 encounter with one white deer fawn ended up being 00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:04.500 my most memorable moment of the short time I 00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:08.539 spent inside the queue. Some point in the tour, 00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:11.119 we were going down a road by some of the igloos, 00:38:11.139 --> 00:38:15.440 and all of a sudden a white fawn came walking 00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:19.340 out from an overgrown wooded area to the left 00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:23.440 of the tour wagon. Now, not only was the fawn 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.920 completely unbothered by the presence of the 00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:30.139 truck and all these people and the wagon, she 00:38:30.139 --> 00:38:32.960 seemed kind of curious and was walking toward 00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:36.199 us. So the tour guide says, hello, Bella. And 00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:39.420 then he goes on to explain that Bella is a white 00:38:39.420 --> 00:38:42.739 deer who had become acclimated to the employees 00:38:42.739 --> 00:38:45.760 who currently worked in the old Q area. So she 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.340 wasn't afraid of humans would often come around 00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:52.099 and they had even given her a name. And the tour 00:38:52.099 --> 00:38:55.260 guide also mentioned that Bella often traveled 00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:58.159 with a friend. And right after he said that, 00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.039 sure enough, a small brown fawn strolled out 00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:05.989 of the brush. Also looking curious, but probably 00:39:05.989 --> 00:39:10.489 definitely more hesitant than Bella was. And 00:39:10.489 --> 00:39:12.730 the tour guide mentioned the brown deer's name, 00:39:12.769 --> 00:39:15.429 but I can't remember it because the whole scene 00:39:15.429 --> 00:39:19.610 was just so crazy. First of all, nobody told 00:39:19.610 --> 00:39:21.710 me that there was such a thing as a friendly 00:39:21.710 --> 00:39:24.409 white deer who would walk up to people. White 00:39:24.409 --> 00:39:28.050 deer. quick and elusive and like all white -tailed 00:39:28.050 --> 00:39:29.949 deer, even brown ones, they're going, they're 00:39:29.949 --> 00:39:32.170 going to move the other way if a human gets too 00:39:32.170 --> 00:39:35.090 close. They just don't walk up to you. So it 00:39:35.090 --> 00:39:37.090 was something I didn't even consider possible. 00:39:37.690 --> 00:39:42.630 And then Bella walked around the wagon and truck 00:39:42.630 --> 00:39:46.610 and was standing a few feet off the gravel road 00:39:46.610 --> 00:39:49.809 across the road from where she had first appeared. 00:39:50.610 --> 00:39:53.389 And I was sitting all the way to the back of 00:39:53.389 --> 00:39:56.769 the wagon. So I had an unobstructed view from 00:39:56.769 --> 00:40:01.789 maybe 30 feet away, looking directly at the white 00:40:01.789 --> 00:40:04.869 deer. So I pulled out my phone, started to take 00:40:04.869 --> 00:40:08.869 photos. And then I realized that she wasn't just 00:40:08.869 --> 00:40:12.489 standing there. She was taking a leak. She was 00:40:12.489 --> 00:40:15.690 urinating, taking a wee. So I took a few more 00:40:15.690 --> 00:40:18.489 photos as the wagon was slowly pulling away. 00:40:18.909 --> 00:40:22.949 And she finished up her tinkle there. And I just 00:40:22.949 --> 00:40:25.750 put my phone back in my pocket. When someone 00:40:25.750 --> 00:40:27.570 said, look, she's chasing us. And I looked up 00:40:27.570 --> 00:40:30.530 and sure enough, that little white deer was trotting 00:40:30.530 --> 00:40:32.610 along the center of the road, looking like she 00:40:32.610 --> 00:40:35.869 was trying to catch up with the wagon. So I attempted 00:40:35.869 --> 00:40:38.230 to get out my phone and take a video, but in 00:40:38.230 --> 00:40:42.610 my haste and I messed something up. So there's 00:40:42.610 --> 00:40:46.550 no video, but I still got some solid shots of 00:40:46.550 --> 00:40:49.469 that little white deer casually taking a whiz 00:40:49.469 --> 00:40:52.860 while everyone watched. And I'll post that photo 00:40:52.860 --> 00:40:57.000 in the description of the podcast. So even though 00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:00.039 it wasn't a supernatural encounter, being approached 00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:03.739 by a white deer who then comes closer and casually 00:41:03.739 --> 00:41:06.619 pees before chasing your vehicle down the road 00:41:06.619 --> 00:41:09.880 inside of a former nuclear weapons storage facility 00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:15.139 is certainly unexpected and decidedly weird. 00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:19.880 Well, that's it for this time around. I hope 00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:21.500 you enjoyed it. Thanks so much for listening. 00:41:21.619 --> 00:41:24.360 And if you have any thoughts on any of the topics 00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:26.980 in this episode, please let me know. And remember 00:41:26.980 --> 00:41:29.239 to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts 00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:31.599 and get over to SenecaLakeMysteries .com and 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:33.800 subscribe to the email list so you don't miss 00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:37.000 anything. A new podcast comes out every month 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:38.880 on the sevens. I'll talk to you then.