Are you feeling lost? Well, you've come to the
right place. Welcome to Lost -ish, where we,
Rose Chachko, and Emmanuella Kathreptakis,
share what it's really like navigating your 20s.
We're two semi -lost girls figuring out careers,
relationships, wellness, purpose, and everything
in between. Each week we dive into the highs,
the lows, and lessons of chasing your dreams,
finding happiness, and learning to embrace the
uncertainty. We're not here to pretend like we've
loaded all together. We're simply just figuring
it out with you. Hello, guys. Hello, guys. Welcome
back to the Lostish podcast. We are very excited
to be bringing back another episode for all of
you about tall poppy syndrome. So this is something
that I wasn't very familiar with. Rose actually
introduced me to this concept, but basically
it's a concept where to put it in very simple
terms or how it was explained to me is pretty
much, you know, you hear a success story and
then hating on someone just because they are
successful. And that doesn't just mean famous.
It means Good at extremely good at something
like a high achiever or like even a colleague
at work who's been promoted or it actually happens
a lot within the performing arts industry which
is the industry that I am in and in the acting
industry oh my goodness like tall poppy syndrome
is so real especially in Australia because I
feel like in the US. People successes are like
really celebrated and they kind of come like
a lot of americans come with this like confidence
of owning their owning their sheet really owning
their space owning their success but he would
kind of brought up to be. You know very very
humbled obviously that doesn't reflect everybody
or you know a lot of people. can be very egotistical
and arrogant about their successes but a lot
of Australians are brought up to be quite humbled
and that's not to say Americans aren't humble
you know but there's a difference in somebody
being successful and somebody envying somebody.
And yeah we're not specifically pointing out
one specific culture that was just like an interesting
statistic that we had found yes but we're pretty
much in this episode going to talk about what
it is. where you can find these issues in all,
where you can encounter situations like this
throughout all your twenties and even younger,
even older, pretty much throughout your whole
life. And then how to conquer it. Yes. Yeah.
Like our tips of the stories that we've encountered
and what we're doing to try and avoid that. So
let's just get right into it. So we've got some
talking points once again, so we kind of stay
on track. And I think Emanuela gave a really
Really simple great definition of what tall poppy
syndrome is but according to chat gbt defining
tall poppy syndrome is the origin term of. It
comes from the idea of cutting down poppies that
grow taller than the rest so it's about obviously
resentment or criticism towards people who are
perceived as too successful or getting ahead.
And there's a bit of a tension there between
I guess mateship and ambition because a lot of
times it can happen between friends too like.
As an actor myself who has been in the industry
for a while now the the amount of times like
you have people putting you down for your successes
people who you think are your friends which is
baffling to me and we've we've touched on like
this sort of jealousy and how to deal with people
like this in your circle in two episodes now
last one and also in our importance of your circle
episode so. It's not just something that relates
at all poppy syndrome but something again it
just goes to show how much you really can encounter
and how common it is to encounter situations
like this i think i'll just add on to that and
say that that's probably my biggest tip is that.
Whether you want to see it or not i think people
always have an idea of the types of people that
are good for them in their lives and the ones
that aren't whether you consider them your good
friends or not i think there's always those red
flags that you choose to oversee and sometimes
even see them and choose to ignore them so for
me one of the biggest things the biggest you
know help that i found in my life to avoid. jealousy
and friends that you know are envious or jealous
of me for absolutely no reason because I've encountered
that before and not even for anything serious
like we're talking about the grades I got in
school yeah or like like something is you know
stupid as that which I don't even go around parading.
Is just making sure that I'm keeping those people
that I genuinely know deep deep down because
you always know deep down who's good for you
and who isn't keeping them the closest to me.
Because that's what's gonna uplift me the most
they're the people that are gonna support me
the most I know I won't ever feel judge bringing
my successes forward to them and it like it honestly
makes you thrive. I think honestly like on that
night when it comes to sort of that. tall poppy
syndrome within friendships and overachieving
and schools and universities and things like
that like I feel like if I succeed, like you
are one of my biggest fans when it comes to my,
my acting, right? I really am. She really is.
And like, I feel like it's also nice having you
not in the industry because I feel like even
some of my friends who are in the industry, it's
very hard to be like, Oh my God, guess what?
Like I got a call back for this role or I got
cast for this role because you're all going for
it. And because you've got it, they're like,
Oh, like I'm so happy for you. But deep down,
They wish that they got that role you know what
i mean and that's okay that's normal but with
you i feel like you're just happy for me because
you see that i'm happy and i've succeeded in
something that i'm really passionate about i
don't think anything good comes out of being
jealous for someone else's success honestly the
more you just let what is supposed to happen
happen it was meant for that person. Not necessarily
for you in terms of like the acting thing for
example but like. The more you you know this
is something that we used to do in school actually
me and my high school friends just now that i'm
on the topic of the like high school grades and
stuff like that we used to honestly have really
healthy competition with stuff like this i think
this is why i did so well in school and this
was before any of these a i generated things
out and i still ended up doing very well and
i think it purely came down to the fact that
my entire friend group of literally seven people
was all like. It was healthy competition. Come
over and study with me. Come and I'll help you
out. It was like there was none of this like,
oh, look what I did. Look what I didn't. I'm
not sharing my essay with you. I'm not doing
this. Yeah, I didn't have that. Sorry but yeah
everyone is supposed to be a world where people
help each other out. Well it is but unfortunately
that's not what society is right. Well in school
I didn't experience that at all everybody like
sharing notes was like this big thing of like
no like I made the effort I'm not going to share
my notes or like it's it's honestly just so insane
to me but also I want to I think we should reiterate
where. tall poppy syndrome can occur, like in
what sort of environments. I think the biggest
environments where tall poppy syndrome can occur
is media and celebrities. I feel like we hate
on Successful celebrities so much because they
are celebrities and they are successful. Hence
why they're famous and we don't even know them.
And I'm a culprit of that. I'm like, Oh, you
know, like, uh, whoever, whoever it is, is annoying.
And like, Oh my God, like, I don't like this
celebrity. I don't even know who they are. Little,
like little do I know. Maybe they're the nicest
person. ever and we could be best friends. Yeah.
I never understood what encouraged people to
sit there and, you know, comment all these bad
things on people's accounts. And it is just something
like hate comments. And when you don't, you really
don't know this person. Like, honestly, I'm saying
this with my whole heart. I have never once there
I've seen videos and statements and things that
people have put out anyone from, you know, a
political figure to the smallest micro influencer
to friends. I will never ever not once has it
crossed my mind even to something that has annoyed
me so much to be like, to sit there and leave
such a hateful comment on it. Like these people
are still people that have feelings. Yeah, never
like and you don't know them from a bar of soap.
You shouldn't even Talk hate like hatefully to
someone that you do know like a friend that you
have absolutely no idea about. Yes. So that was
just something that I thought. No, that's such
a good point. Such a good point. I literally
never have. I thought, no, I'm going to sit there
and comment this on this person because they've
just infuriated me. Well, yeah. I can control
my emotions, I can control my own beliefs, and
I'm happy to share them if I do, and I'm happy
to share them if I don't, but not sit there and
comment hateful things to someone that is literally
a human just like you and has feelings just like
you. On that note, guys, we actually received
our first hate comment the other day. We did,
guys, and you know what the irony of it was?
Rose didn't even see this. I didn't even see
it. I saw it as a filtered comment that came
up on our TikTok page of someone being like...
holy shit, not another brain dead podcast. And
this person had no profile picture and their
username was user2576852. And I was like, well,
of course it was you. Of course it was you hiding
behind a screen. Like the fact that you even
like, to be honest, you gave us a view. So thank
you. Like you viewed our TikTok, that gives us
a view. We were laughing about it. It was so
funny. So we've got media and celebs. We also
obviously have school and universities, like
we said. Wow tall poppy syndrome in drama school
is insane awesome story i'll give you a story
like for example. I had is actually a really
good friend of mine this person was. I think
i need a word this really carefully not you know
like in drama school you have a hierarchy of
people where teachers alike have their favorites
and they're like oh yeah you're gonna get the
best agent or you're gonna succeed or you're
gonna become famous or whatever whatever sounds
toxic yeah it was super toxic super toxic um
and uh this one person who nobody thought um
would kind of succeed the way that they succeeded
after drama school and they probably became the
most successful person in that course i think
you know who i am talking about. I'm in that
person will know that talking about as well love
you very much very proud of all your successes.
No one thought that this person or the teachers
actually never really thought that this person
would be where they are today and this person
is very well known very famous one of my. very
good friends. And the fact that he's succeeding
now, people are not liking that. Of course, people
have started to kind of hate on this person because
they're succeeding. It's such a shame. It's such
a shame. It's such a beautiful place to be like
you've gotten there and all you want is like
that's all you know, this person's probably wanted
their whole life. And then to get to the top
and have No one sitting this and not no one because
obviously there are people but then you've got
that other side of things where this person is
experiencing a lot of people like sliding back
into the DMS and being like oh my god you're
succeeding so much like congratulations like
let's grab a coffee like you absolute legend.
Uh, no. F off because you were never a part of
that person's life in any good way. You know,
you didn't believe in, in them. You were not
there through the highs and lows and all of a
sudden you want to be their friend now because
they've got clout, you know, but deep down you
don't, you envy that person for their successes.
You know, that, that particular type of individual,
but it's. Yeah it's really interesting to watch
from an outsider perspective because i've also
experience experience with you know. What you
said the other day when we're at uni i remember
you said something about being the first one
that got signed out of your cohort something
like that. Oh well for me it was more so yeah
like it's interesting is in drama school. In
my year, I was never really like that person
to be in like the top, the top of the teacher's
list and the tutor's list for like being really
successful or amazing. And even my peers, like
it's actually quite interesting. Very little
was I asked to like read for them in, you know,
auditions and things like that during the course.
And I think a lot of people doubted me, which
is such a shame. And I really felt that, that
people doubted me. And look, could be in my head,
but it's just what I was feeling at the time
from what I was seeing and my tutors and things
like that. I had some incredibly phenomenal tutors,
but some I feel like didn't think I would kind
of get to where I've gotten. And I ended up being
the first, I think I was one of the first females
in the course that was signed by a really great
agency and i think i was one of the first girls
to book a book a big big gig and it's interesting
like the amount of people that all of a sudden
will like. um you know i had this like jealousy
complex or like oh my god like rose like really
and it's and it's so interesting because now
that i've you know succeeded in that sort of
way the people that i've like not necessarily
attracted into my life but have come across who
have tried to slide back in there, even friends
from school that I'm not friends with anymore
who used to bully me to my core have slid back
and been like, Oh my God, this is amazing. Like,
this is so cool. It's like really bad. It's,
it's, it just makes me laugh. To be honest, it's
embarrassing. Um, but they clearly, they don't
have my best interest at heart whatsoever. People
can change, but for me personally, like, Yeah
i you can never fully trust someone who has done
you wrong done you wrong and betrayed you in
that way again not say you can't forgive them
like i'm sure you don't have any bad complete
bad blood against these people now i know i don't
speak to these people you would never you weren't
there from the start you know you're you know
you're real one yeah you know you're real one
so that was my kind of experience. Let's find
it in the workplace as well because i think that's
something that is as you know. 20 some things
that work is somewhere where we spend quite a
bit of our time. And it's such a shame to even
from an outsider, like to see not not as an outsider,
sorry, I worded that wrong. But even as someone
who is not involved in situations like this personally
in my workplace, I see it so often about, you
know, people that will pretend to get along with
these people. And then I'll literally hear them
talking about them behind their backs. And I'm
like, What what's that about like that's not
and this could be in relation to anything this
is gonna be in relation to you know You thinking
that they're on a power trip because they're
in a you know higher position than you I say
in inverted commas or you know I don't know.
Yeah, they've gotten a promotion at work or as
you mentioned before or something like that,
but it's just I think the whole point of this
episode is it's really just such a shame and
it really just makes you feel more lonely and
more drained yourself than it is to the other
person so it's got nothing to do with them it's
got everything to do with you. Yeah it shows
more about your insecurities and your character
and the work that you need to be doing in therapy
if you're constantly feeling like you need to
put somebody down because they're succeeding
and you know what it stems from such a young
age that this is what humans and societies are
like. I like in general like how many times did
we hear is kids that you know if that boy is
bullying you they like you and I know that's
got nothing to do with you know a success story
but it's like why why are we like that why why
do we have to normalize that is like no be nice
to people their successes are in their life for
a reason your successes will come to you in due
time. Don't sit there and hate on someone else
just because they're doing a good job at what
they're doing. It's got nothing to do with you.
Absolutely nothing to do with you. So stop trying
to fit yourself into their equation when you
don't need to be in there in the first place.
And I think people a lot of the time too, um,
in kind of any industry is like, Oh, but like
they didn't deserve that. Like I work so hard,
like they didn't work hard at all. And they're
so successful. Look, that's life. Sometimes it's
luck and people are in the right place at the
right time with the right people and it can happen
for them the acting industry is full of it is
full of it you know you've got nepotism as well
nepotism is a huge huge thing and maybe we'll
do maybe we should do an episode on nepotism
yeah because that's really interesting in any
workplace that'll be in those situations yeah
i think this is also a good time to because a
lot of people also think like on that topic for
example about the the nepotism and you know being
born into Even if it's not fame, wealth, or something
like that, inheritance, I think we see a lot
of that in Australia, especially in the European
community, at least for me. Like in, yeah, from
what I've seen. But remember what I was telling
you that my dad told me the other day about,
you know, it's not the, we were talking about,
we ended up meeting someone very great at an
event we attended recently. and we were like
very great and it was so funny how we were like
we were supposed to like be there at that time
to meet this person and rose started saying like
you know. i'm telling you this industry or like
these people in life and life in general and
the success of people is all who you know not
what you know and i went actually funny you say
that because i was having a conversation with
my dad this is like probably the 12th time i've
your dad emmanuel's dad cost a shout out to you
because you spit some bangers my friend does
he really does i'll be quoting him quite a bit
in this podcast but he said actually i don't
think it is who you know or what you know it's
actually what you do so what you do with what
you know exactly what and who you know and who
you know because he goes you could be sitting
in a room full of people that are exactly in
the position you want to be and if you don't
make the effort to go out and have a conversation
with them take their you know advice and and
use their actions and listen to them nothing
good will come of it what's the point of you
knowing those people in the first place just
like if you know all the stuff but you think
that you're you know Superior on your own without
the connection of other people you're not gonna
be the most successful version of yourself you
can be but just like what you know is not so
beneficial without who you know who you know
is not so beneficial without what you do with
it. So I thought that was a great piece of advice
and that will be ingrained in me for a very very
long time. Yeah that's a very very good piece
of advice and something that like because you
know all the time we're like oh it's it's luck
and it's all about you know connections and networking
and things like that yeah okay fair fair and
that's step one but then step two is like what
are you actually going to do about that you know
and same with like as Emanuella said we met some
really great people at this event that we attended
the other week. Shout out to two particular people
who will probably be listening to this podcast.
Bless them. And we like made like a really genuine
connection with them and have kept in touch and
will probably continue to keep in touch. and
collaborate with them and from a very genuine
from a very genuine place like a genuine connection
organically which is exactly why and it's crazy
like you never know how did it start we were
what playing pool we were literally playing pool
and this man was explaining to his son how to
play pool and little do we know he's this like
you know big ball or in in a specific industry
and we were like wow like that was just like
a cherry on such a genuine connection yeah. And
it was, yeah, really beautiful. And we're, you
know, now great friends with these people because
they were such genuine people. And that's very
rare to meet a genuine person that doesn't sit
there and is jealous. And you can tell. This
is why I started by saying the first point. You
can always tell who is genuine and who isn't
deep, deep, deep down, even if they're your best
friend. I'm telling you, you can tell. You always
know. You always know. You're like, are you?
Are you actually happy for me? Are you actually
going to help me? You know, you can always, always
feel it. Even if you don't want to like admit
it to yourself, you just know. And you know what?
Unfortunately, like in a lot of best friendships,
there is always going to be that little, especially
if you're in the same kind of industry, a tad
of competition or a tad of jealousy. It's human
nature. It's it's what being a human is. You
feel certain emotions and whatnot. But like it
just comes down to being a good person and understanding
that, you know, you might have that, you know,
downfall about yourself that you might be the
type that even their your closest friend, you
know, you might get this inkling of, you know,
why wasn't that me or, you know, and that could
be in relation to anything. It all comes down
to you recognizing that you can control your
emotions you can control the type of person you
are you can't control them and what was meant
for them was for them and what was meant for
you will be for you. Absolutely nothing good
that comes from hating on someone successes because.
They've worked for it. It's that simple it doesn't
matter how they got there or what it matters
what they're doing with it and if they're doing
well and they're genuine person and you like
them in your life there's no reason for there
to be any form of jealousy whatsoever and you
can't just hate on them for that reason and we
are talking. Now on the perspective of someone
that is close to you and someone that you know
but I think we're bringing tall poppy syndrome
down to like. In the realm of things that could
help our listeners because you know I mean sure
we can give you advice on how to stop hating
you know. artists on the internet but it's not
going to benefit your life so much. That'll come
as a result of being a good person overall. Yeah
and I think like to kind of conclude there and
be like okay how can we kind of push back against
that sort of to feel that way it's like I've
got a I've gotten written down here is firstly
create environments that celebrate success and
community if you're surrounded by people that
envy successes and are sort of jealous towards
that sort of thing. You don't really want to
be surrounding yourself in that. No, it's so
draining. Secondly, practice genuine support.
Clap for your friends when they win. It is so,
so simple to just be like, you know what? I'm
happy for you. I'm happy for you. And be good
on you. It's so freeing to be genuine about it
as well. Like, Like Rose got told some really
good news the other day and I was literally crying
for her about it. Like I'm being dead serious.
Like, and I'm not even, it wasn't like I genuinely
just felt her. Yeah. And it was like, she got
emotional. I wasn't getting emotional. I was
like so stunned by this news. And I just started
crying. And she started crying and I started
crying because she was crying. And I was like,
dude, I don't think I've ever had any... Actually,
besides my parents, I don't think I've had any
friend in my life that has cried for me. Are
you being serious? Because of the way that I've
succeeded if you're the first person. I'm such
an empathetic person. Like genuinely, I sit there
and I'm like, no genuinely, I'm like, I get very
happy about things like this. I'm also just the
type of person that for example, like even with
gifts and stuff, I love seeing people's reactions
to the kind that I give them because I'm so like,
I just love it. I love, guys, it feels so good
to be a good person, like seriously. And you
get rewarded like good karma is definitely a
thing. It's a real thing. You will get rewarded.
And the last thing is reframe ambition as inspiration,
not threat. I think if you look at somebody and
you have this feeling like, oh, I wish that was
me or like, why are they successful and I'm not,
reframe that as inspiration. Be like, okay. this
person can do it, I can do it too. Let me work
on my craft, let me work on myself to get to
a point that I want to get to or to achieve a
certain goal. Exactly, because clearly it's possible.
That's like, you know, saying that you're going
to go to the gym every day and then it doesn't
happen. Maybe they're just working harder than
you. Yeah. Maybe that's what it is. Or maybe
they're not. Maybe they're not working harder
than you. But that's that's their journey. That's
that person's life trajectory. It doesn't actually
matter. anything to do with you. You shouldn't
let it affect you or your mood or their mood
or anything to do with anyone but yourself. You
can control yourself. They will control themselves
and everyone will be happy. Absolutely. Closing
thoughts. Tall poppy syndrome might be rooted
in a desire for fairness, but when we cut down
those who thrive, we all lose. Exactly. We all
lose. And I think we kind of also touched on
Australia in the beginning of our About podcast
because it's a very very big thing in Australia
tall poppy syndrome but if we kind of thought
to ourselves what would Australia look like if
we learned to lift each other up and not level
each other down we would be living in a completely
different environment you know what i think that
goes with the whole world the whole honestly
i can sit here and throw in my religious beliefs
about it too which i'm not going to do but in
general the whole world is is pretty cooked when
we when we think about it like. Imagine if the
whole world was living peacefully and uplifting
each other constantly wow it would be such a
fantastic place. Such a different place. But
you know what we're humans we have free will
and the way we think and behave is all really
up to us. And unfortunately some people just
choose to have that outlook on life and it's
really unfortunate but we're here to help you
guys as well because we love everyone. We do
love everyone everyone is. has has some sort
of good in them no one is born inherently evil
and um wow that just took a massive turn it really
did so a poppy syndrome to evil no i think we're
going to conclude it there guys um i think like
this episode i wasn't sure about it at the beginning
because i thought we were going to take a much
more um like career path yeah but i think we
made it relatable in a sense where you can apply
it in everyday life yeah So we hope this has
helped you guys in some way, even if you could
take one little thing from it and share it. That
would be fantastic. Absolutely. And as we said,
we are here to help you help us and is that our
motto? We are here to help you to help us. I
reckon that's going to be our motto. I've been
saying it too much. Too much. But it's the official
lostish motto. Hell yeah. Alright. Give it a
share, guys, if you've enjoyed it. Yes, give
it a like. We've got some new listeners in new
countries. We do. We do. I saw South African
the other day. I was like, wow. Oh my god, love
that. It's great. It's so nice guys seeing all
your stuff and we promise we will start being
more consistent on our social platforms as well.
Yes, we've had to pause the social platforms
because we've had a lot going on. but we will
be back there soon and tune in to the next episode
of The Lostish Podcast. Bye guys.