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Everyone it's time for another edition of ham
talk live. It's episode number 37 Flex radios
with Gerald Youngwood k5 sdr recorded live on
Thursday October 27th 2016 I'm your host, Neil
Rapp, WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning into this episode
of HamTalk Live. Tonight, we're joined by Gerald
Youngblood, K5SDR, the founder of Flex Radios,
and we'll take your calls live in just a few
minutes. Remember, if you miss the show, you
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That phone number is 812 -NET -HAM -1, 812 -638
-4261. You can also send your questions via Twitter.
You can start doing that now, actually. Our Twitter
handle is at hamtalklive. Well, before we go
to break, Got a little treat here for everybody
running CQ worldwide this weekend. We have a
guest that wanted just a minute to speak to you.
So this is for all those people working CQ worldwide,
hopefully including myself this weekend. Everyone
in the audience on HamTalk Live today is going
to get one of my favorite things. You get a 5
-9. You get a 5 -9. Everyone gets a 5 -9. So
hopefully everybody gets a five nine Well, I'll
be back with k5 sdr right after this word from
tower electronics right here on ham talk live
This episode of ham talk live is brought to you
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to sponsor this episode of HamTalk Live. Coming
to you live from the glass -enclosed Faraday
box. Here's Neil Rapp with more HamTalk Live.
Thanks once again to Scott and Jill at Tower
Electronics for sponsoring the show to help bring
you HamTalk Live tonight. They will be at the
Lawrenceburg Georgia Ham Fest November 5th and
6th and then Fort Wayne Indiana on November 12th
and 13th or you can give them a call 920 -435
-2973 is their phone number or visit their website
at PL -259 .com and tell them you heard it right
here on HamTalk Live. HamTalk Live is on the
air every Thursday night at 9 p .m. Eastern Time
right here on HamTalkLive .com and if you missed
the show, you can listen to the archive on the
website or download it from most popular podcasting
websites. Gerald Youngblood founded Flex Radio
Systems in April of 2003. As president and CEO,
he is responsible for managing the day -to -day
operations of the company. Prior to Flex Radio
Systems, he founded and ran five technology companies
spanning from hardware, software, and electronic
manufacturing. He's been a ham since 1967 as
WA5RXV, KE5OH, AC5OG, and now holds an extra
class license as K5SDR. Gerald received a BSWE
degree from Mississippi State. And he's the recipient
of the ARRL 2002 Doug DeMauw W1FB Technical Excellence
Award and the Central States VHF Society 2004
John T Chambers Award. So welcome tonight to
HamTalk Live. We're glad you could join us. Thanks,
Neil. I really appreciate the opportunity. So,
tell us a little bit about starting up FlexRadio.
What made you decide to take the leap to start
that up and get into the software defined radio
business? Well, I often call it an accidental
company. I got into ham radio when I was a teenager
and just was fascinated with the technology and
that ended up directing my career into electrical
engineering and then into starting companies
as you've said and as many of us do when life
happens and we have kids and career the ham radio
hobby that we loved as teenagers kind of fell
to the wayside until my son was about 12 years
old and I took him to A field day and he got
interested in getting a license I think it was
more to just do something with dad and it got
me back in the hobby and I got really interested
in PSK 31 That had just come along in the late
1990s and it intrigued me that maybe I could
build a radio with a PC and a sound card using
technology That I learned about in college and
so that I set off just as a hobby to see if I
could build a software -defined radio. That was
about 1999. And I worked about three or four
years really hard having to dig in and study
and relearn all the mathematics that I had not
had in about 40 years. And ended up building
what became the SDR 1000, wrote a series of articles
for QEX called the Software -Defined Radio for
the Masses. generated hundreds of emails from
all over the world from people who said it had
reinvigorated their interest in the technical
part of the hobby. And so through those articles,
I decided to around 2002, late 2002, decided
that maybe I would make some of those early SDRs
available. And I sent an email to a lot of the
to the list of people who had contacted me and
said I'll take orders for 10 Tell me why you
should get one of these 10. Well, I got 50 orders
the first day and I think I got 500 orders in
the first nine months and That was how flex radio
started it was not Something that I originally
set out to build a product and start a company,
but it's serendipitously turned into one because
there were so many people interested. And so
that was the birth of the SDR -1000. Well, it's
just taken everything by storm. And so now that
you've done this for a while and it's a solid
solid option for hams. What do you think is going
to happen in the future with software -defined
radio? Do you think all the radio manufacturers
are going to try to copy what you've done? And,
you know, is that going to be the standard? Is
Super Heterodyne gone? Well, I do believe that
SDRs will ultimately completely dominate. They
already do in the cell phone industry. Every
one of your smartphones are really SDRs, and
the base stations that run them are SDRs. So
I would say yes, we're going to see everything
moving to SDR, or you won't be able to play in
the future. There are a number of reasons for
that. First of all, because they're software
defined, They have tremendous flexibility in
how you can configure those systems and improve
them over time. I will say that there's a difference.
I've started to describe it as big S or small
S DR. Many things might be a small S DR, a small
S, in that they might use SDR technology to a
limited extent, but they're not that flexible.
in terms of being modified. I use it with a big
S on the software in terms of being highly configurable.
In fact, the Flex 6000 series, which we came
out, started shipping in 2013, everything from
the antenna port to the audio is software defined.
In other words, we literally digitize the RF
signal coming in at the antenna port. And we
are able to do 100 % of the processing. Everything
from mixers to amplification to filtering, et
cetera, is all done in software, all the way
to the final audio conversion. So it's truly
software defined. That means that you can change
modulation schemes, you can add modulation schemes,
you can change filtering structures, you can
add and even do things at the RF frequencies
in programmable hardware called FPGAs. So yes,
the answer is everything will move to SDR and
we feel that we have a strong lead in that area.
And not only in terms of the radio itself, but
in terms of making the radio a server. Every
one of our radios are servers that sit on your
homeland so that frees you from having to be
at the radio. In fact, I can use my radio on
the deck in the backyard using my iPad or Maestro.
You can even use it on an iPhone. So it has so
many different capabilities that we have not
even realized all of them yet. And one of the
things that I found interesting and was all the
rage at Contest University last year is that
there is one thing that had to be hardware for
a lot of people and that's the big knob. So you
introduced the maestro to take care of the need
for that big knob. That's right. In fact, we
did it in a different way from what it's what
anyone has done before First of all, we went
out and interviewed about 15 Top contesters and
we asked them What did they like and what did
they not like about their current station? What
were their dreams? What would they? What would
help them improve their scores? And we use that
to drive the user interface of Maestro. And a
few things that we heard is that you want to
have the right controls, no more and no less.
You may have seen radios that have hundreds of
buttons and knobs. Well, those can be quite confusing
when you've been up for 24 hours. after 24 hours
your fingers can get awfully fat. And so we wanted
to make sure that there was plenty of spacing
between the controls and they were exactly the
right controls. So that was step one. Step two
is we wanted to make sure that you didn't lose
the visual capabilities that SDR can bring. And
so we put an 80 inch high definition touch screen
on the Maestro so that you can see extremely
weak signals on the display. and simply tap tune
them if you want a quick QSY. So that was number
two. Number three is we wanted to make the device
completely portable so that you could take it
around the house or on the deck, et cetera. And
so Maestro with a battery weighs less than four
pounds. And I have a 12 amp hour battery on mine
that's the size of a cell phone, and it will
run for five hours anywhere in my house on that
battery. So that has been a significant enhancement
in capability to using an SDR. It works either
over wired ethernet or Wi -Fi. and it gives you
complete flexibility of where you use it. In
fact, some top contesters are using it in recent
contests. I noticed that Charlie Romeo III Whiskey
used Maestro with a 6700 in the CQ Worldwide,
and they made over 10 ,500 ,000 points in CQ
Worldwide. Half of the contacts were made on
the 6700 with the Maestro, and so that was a
real win for us. And K9CT used it in the same
contest, and they were number one in the US in
multi -two category. So we're pretty excited
about that product. I do want to mention also
that recently we announced Smart SDR for iOS
that runs on both iPhones and iPads and gives
you the full capabilities of Smart SDR, which
is our radio operating environment, and it's
available now on the Apple Store. Oh, very good,
very good. For those who haven't seen an SDR
work or been able to play with one, What would
you say are the biggest advantages to using an
SDR over a standard superheterodyne radio? Well,
I would say the first one that you'll notice
is their visual radios. And if they're built
correctly, I mean high definition visuals. So
it completely changes your view of the bands
in that you can very easily see what's going
on on an entire band. In fact, with some of our
radios, up to eight bands at once. So you can
watch for openings on multiple bands, watch the
beacons. You could be watching for openings on
six meters while you're working 20 meters. Also,
you can work on multiple bands at once. For example,
we've enabled full duplex and single operator
two radio capabilities. so that you could be
in a contest running on 20 meters and S &P search
and pounce on 15 at the same time if you have
suitable antenna isolation. In DXing, it really
gives you an advantage in that with the high
definition display, you can very quickly detect
what the pattern is and know where the best place
to call and many times, break the pile up in
the first or second call. Another thing is the
performance and the sound. Because we go to digital
in one step, you eliminate 100 % of the analog
circuitry that tends to, I say 100%, there is
a little bit of analog circuitry between the
digital section and converting it back to audio,
but you can have extremely low distortion audio
and ultra -low distortion filters. You don't
have any ringing like you would in a crystal
filter. So that's one of the comments we get
back from our customers is how clean the audio
is and how it eliminates a lot of the fatigue
that they are familiar with in the SuperHit roofing
filter types of receivers that we've all been
used to in the past. So those are a couple things.
I already mentioned networking, the fact that
your radio becomes a server. In fact, my radio
is in a rack, a 12U rolling rack under my desk,
and the Maestro sits on top of the desk, and
then I can walk around the house with either
the Maestro or the iPad. And that changes the
way you think about the radio. Also, because
it's software, we're able to integrate it with
other systems. For example, if you work digital
or modes are ready, you might have an enormous
rat's nest of cables and boxes and sound cards
and all kinds of things to get a pan adapter.
All that goes away. Everything is done in digital.
So if you're using MMTTY or two tone or FL digi,
all of those applications communicate 100 % digitally
without a wire. And that gets rid of all the
ground loops and problems, RF ingress that you
have in a lot of the legacy systems we've been
accustomed to. So those are a few of the things
that you would notice right off on the front.
The other thing is because we put a big S on
SDR, it means that we are constantly enhancing
the radio and do multiple feature enhancements
and performance enhancements each year. And so
it continues to be enhanced. In fact, there's
a new one coming out in the next week or two
that will be coming out. So those are a few of
the things that I think are top of mind. All
right. And before we go to break, Ralph Fedor
was on and was telling us about the Bouvet Island
De -Expedition coming up. And they're going to
be doing all software -defined flex radios on
this De -Expedition. So how excited are you about
that? And do you think that's going to start
becoming the trend? Well, we are honored to be
a part of that the expedition that's a very remote
one of the most remote places on earth and K9
CTW zero GJ or and Kate Into tu are three Serious
the expedition operators that are all flex radio
affectionados, and they will be, I believe all
three of them are going on that de -expedition.
And so they have a lot of excitement about using
our equipment in that environment. They used
it in the background. W0GJ took it to Palmyra
and testing there and just was blown away with
how many QSOs it increased the rate. especially
on 160 and 80 meters they said it totally changed
their perspective of the low bands because they
were able to see and then work stations that
they would never have known were on the air.
with very heavy QSB. So that's number one. Also,
I think there's a lot of interest in how they
might use the client server aspect of our radios
to remote the transmitter receivers in different
places on the island. for safety or for isolation
between the transmitters and receivers. So there
are a lot of capabilities there that I'm sure
we'll be exploring over time. They'll be taking
eight of our stations to that, the expedition.
So it's a major undertaking. Well, that sounds
really interested and I'll be happy to hear how
that all goes and expect. some record -breaking
stuff going on on that de -expedition, so sounds
like a good plan. Well, it is time to pay some
of the bills, but we'll be back in just a little
over a minute. And take your calls right after
this message from the HamStation right here on
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Call us on voice with Skype at HamTalk Live or
give us a call at 812 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812
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.com. Check out our Facebook page and our Twitter
feed to search for HamTalk Live. Well, it's time
to take your calls this evening. If you have
a question, you can call us at 812 -NET -HAM
-1. That's 812 -638. 4261. You can also Skype
your question to HamTalk Live, that's our account
name, or you can tweet at HamTalk Live. You can
also post in the comment section on the website
if you're listening live. Give us a call or a
tweet or a comment and let's get your questions
in here about flex radios and what K5SDR has
been up to. While we're waiting on some of those
calls, can you let us in on any exciting and
new things coming up here in the future besides
the software upgrade you just talked about? I
think that one of the things that we have made
a little bit of noise about is that we have a
new legal limit amplifier that is coming in the
near future. We showed an early prototype last
year in Dayton and have been relatively quiet
about it since then, but it's nearing the beta
phase within the next few weeks. And once we
get it through FCC and CE certification, then
we'll be able to be very specific about when
it will be available and start taking orders
at that point. A few of the key things about
it is that it's a 2kW capable amplifier, which
means it'll run nicely at 1 .5kW with very low
distortion and low spurious harmonic output.
It weighs less than 30 pounds. I actually carried
it in on my shoulder in a bag in Dayton. It has
a 3 kilowatt switching power supply in it. And
so it's designed to be very rugged but lightweight.
So you'll probably see it going on the expeditions
as well. And one of the interesting features
is that it is based on ethernet, which means
it'll totally integrate with our radios and with
Maestro. In the future what you'll see is if
you're on maestro remote The amplifier it'll
show you the power output of the amplifier and
the SWR coming out of the amplifier even though
you're not at the amplifier and All of the switching
and so forth will be over ethernet It'll also
be compatible with any legacy radio with inputs
for BCD cat CI5, etc. So it will be fully compatible
with other radios as well. So we expect to be
in production early next year. So that's an imminent
development. We've been working very hard on
complete seamless contest integration with the
main loggers. and eliminating all of the junk
you had to have to make a contest station work
in various configurations. In fact, K9CT says
that he can switch from single operator to multi
-2 to SO2R in a matter of just a few minutes
on any mode. And so integration, station integration,
you'll see a lot coming there. Coming out in
our version 1 .10 in the next couple of weeks,
we've added the capability to have a fan out
of USB to station control devices, including
USB to serial, USB to BCD, and USB to binary
control. And you can put a USB hub on the back
of the radio. and control a large number of station
devices over a single USB port off the back of
the radio. The radio does have two USB ports.
And you can set that up either from Maestro or
from Smart SDR running on a PC. So that's a capability
that's coming imminently. And then we are working
toward now true plug and play remote. And station
integration is one of the stepping stones in
that. If you go remote, you need to have seamless
station integration for multiple devices. So
all those things play together. OK, we do have
a call on the line. So let's see what we have.
Welcome to AMTALK Live. Who's this? Hi, this
is a Vinny K a to NCV in New York All right,
what's your question? Yeah, I have a deflection.
I'm I sure I'm enjoying it. It's been a culture
shock since Joe pointed out the Definitely not
having the controls anymore. So one of the things
I find sort of interesting was sort of upsetting
is that I belong to one of the chat groups where
there's always information about the problems
that come across these software -defined radios
and every day there seems to be some kind of
an issue and I find it sort of discouraging because
technology on this radio is it well how much
is that fact or fiction and everyone seems to
have a problem with these software -defined issues.
Well, I think you would have to say that the
main reason people would post is when they have
a question. The people that are happily working
away are not posting questions, and there are
many thousands of them that are working away
every day with just no problems at all. So you'll
see... Go ahead. No, I haven't really faced any
of those issues, but it's just like I'm saying,
like, what's going on here? Every day there's
another question pop up. This doesn't work that
doesn't work. I can't get this to work. It's
very Yeah, a lot of times they don't have anything
to do with our radios to there people use third
-party applications like digital mode applications
or they're using Something that somebody wrote
to talk directly to our radios because we have
a you a programming interface And other people
are writing software to controller radios. In
fact, I saw a comment today on there where somebody
else's software had caused a problem. But interestingly,
we always get credited even if it's someone else's
problem. an extremely high utilization of our
community in terms of activity. People are really
engaged and that's a good thing. But people feel
very comfortable in asking a question. In the
past, people could go dig in and try to solve
the questions themselves and you'd never hear
about it. Today, we're all on the internet and
you hear about it. Well, thank you very much.
It's a pleasure, and keep up the great work.
I'm looking forward to the new amplifier coming
out soon. Thanks for calling. Yep, thank you
very much for calling. Appreciate it. Thank you.
812 -NET -HAM -1 is the phone number, 812 -638
-4261. We've got time for... Another call or
two, if you have a question, jump on in here,
812 -NET -HAM -1 is the number. Or if you'd rather
type, you can tweet us at HamTalkLive, or you
can post a comment on the website as well there
at HamTalkLive .com. We'll pause here for just
a minute and see if we get another call right
away. But one of the things that I did want to
ask you about is your success with all this software
-defined radio. What's been the most rewarding
part of getting this company going and getting
all this SDR technology out there? I don't think
I can give you a single one, I'll have to give
you a few. First of all, I love technology, I
love being creative, and so it's been extremely
rewarding to have an idea and then see it come
into fruition and creation. And also I've always
loved building businesses and to be able to do
that in a hobby that I've loved since I was a
teenager has been very rewarding. When I first
started this back in 2003, I had some opportunities
to start speaking to various groups about SDR
because people had read my articles. And beginning
with Tapper invited me to speak in 2003. But
each time I would speak to a group, I would ask
how many of you know what SDR is. Back in those
days, I might get three, four, or five hands
in a room of 100. Today, for example, I go to
Friedrichshafen for the ham radio convention
there in Germany, and the room will be filled
with 350 or 400 people, people sitting on the
floor. If I ask that same question, nearly 100
% of the hands will go up. And so I would say
it's extremely rewarding to have been a part
of something that has an impact on a hobby that
I love, ham radio. And so I would say that's
probably the most rewarding part of it. All right.
Very good. We have another call. So welcome to
HamTalk Live. Who's this? Hi, this is Steve,
N8DEZ. I'm in California. and great to hear you
guys tonight. I saw a talk from Dr. McGuire,
N4HY, at the EWRL digital communication conference
and he was talking about the new modulation that
they're going to be using for AMSAT phase four
and mentioned Flex is a possible hardware manufacturer.
I wonder if you could comment. Yes, we've been
collaborating with Bob and the team there at
Virginia Tech. In fact, Steve Hicks is our VP
of Engineering and he's been working very closely
with the team on that project. It's still very
early in terms of discussions of the architecture.
how that might come to fruition and of course
you have to have a launch vehicle too. But the
answer is we're definitely involved in that and
interested. We think it's a pretty exciting project.
Cool. The other question I had, I'm a VHF, UHF
microwave contester and I see a lot of the hacker
groups have uh... radios that are coming out
now if you know with the really uh... whiz bang
f p g a's i'm wondering if you guys have any
thoughts about uh... radio that would operate
natively in the v h u h f microwave and without
having to use outboard transporters uh... i would
say that uh... i'd like to comment on any products
but i can say that uh... they're some pretty
exciting technology uh... that the whole Cell
phone industry as well as some of the the Wi
-Fi and moving up in frequencies Will probably
make that over time more cost -effective and
we're seeing Digital analog converters and analog
to digital converters starting to move up in
frequency. So I think the possibility exists
in the future for that to occur. Very cool. And
then one last question. What's the range on the
Maestro if you were remoting it like in a de
-expedition? What kind of range away from the
box can you get with the Maestro? Well, that
would be like if you're in a de -expedition,
you can use high -gain antennas. Um, and, um,
probably a little more power. So, um, that would,
um, extend it. You can extend it, um, by line
of sight with gain antennas, probably over a
mile or more. Oh, neat. Okay. Well, thank you
so much for taking my questions and you guys
have a great night. Seven three. Thank you for
calling Steve. Thank you very much for calling.
We appreciate you taking the time to do that.
812 net ham one is the number I know we had another
call there we couldn't take and we have three
minutes left so we're gonna have to make it a
Quick one here, but if you want to try calling
back now's the time eight one two net ham one
eight one two six three eight four two six one
and We'll see if we get that out and we also
have one on Twitter here. Oh, let's go ahead
and take the call So I had to had to ignore it
earlier. Hi, you're on am talk live Okay, am
I actually talking live right now you are Okay.
Hey, my name is Jim. I call WB nine I accept
and open Wisconsin. I've been in touch with back
Youngwood down at flex systems and very very
close to purchasing the radio looking at the
6500 and the maestro However, the more people
I talk to, the more confusing it gets. I'm certainly
new to software -defined radios, but very excited
about the technology. So, I looked at this last
report, or not a report, but the write -up that
was in the QFC about the Maestro, and one thing
that was very, very confusing was this latency.
I truly don't understand that. I think it was
some numbers as high as 400 milliseconds. That's
impossible. I couldn't ever use the machine.
So maybe somebody can give me a quick explanation
as to what is latency and how does it enter into
software -defined radios? Well, first of all,
that's old data because we've radically reduced
the latency since they actually did the review.
Latency is the time between when the signal hits
the antenna port and it comes out the audio.
And those numbers of 400 milliseconds are completely
inaccurate at this point. We also have the ability
to vary. Well, let me kind of put it this way.
We have what you call brick wall filters that
are digital. They're much much sharper and cleaner
and low distortion than other filters But the
very very large filters add some time to it.
So we give you complete control over the Sharpness
of the filter versus the time it takes to go
through the filter. So These radios are used
in de -expeditions and contesting and putting
in top scores in the world, especially in the
RIDDI contest that just happened. So latency
is not really an issue now. I couldn't believe
that when I saw that. I have some other friends
here that have competitors' FDR radios, if we
can say that. And of course, they didn't agree
with that either, but good. Well, I'm glad to
hear it. So what are the new numbers? What's
the worst case with the bigger filters? We've
got about 15 seconds here. I don't have them
on the top of my head. We could get them for
you. I just don't remember them right now. And
it's adjustable. Drop me an email if you would,
and we'll get that to you as well as some of
the others that have asked the questions, if
you would. Like I said, I've been in touch with
Matt on and off regularly. If we get closer to
making a purchase, I'll send him an email and
we'll go from there. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Nice job. All right, thank you very much. And
yeah, we had another one come in on Twitter.
We'll have to get that offline here because we're
down to the last minute here, and I need to wrap
things up. But Gerald, thank you so much for
being on, and that's a wrap for this week's HamTalk
Live. I'd like to thank my guest, Gerald Youngblood,
K5SDR. And everyone out there in cyberspace for
listening and calling in and invite you all back
next Thursday night at 9 p .m. Eastern Time when
Jim George in 3BB will be here to talk about
his book called Contact Sport. And for a list
of all of our upcoming guests, visit HamTalkLive
.com. So for now, this is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG,
saying 7 -3, 7 -5, and may the good DX be yours.
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