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Good evening, everyone. It's HamTalk Live, episode
number 98, Building Satellites and the Fox D1D
launch, rather with Jerry in zero JY recorded
live on Thursday, January 18th, 2018. I'm your
host, Neal Rapp, WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning in
to this episode. of HamTalk Live. Tonight we're
joined by AMSAT Vice President for Engineering
Jerry Buxton in Zero JY and we'll take your calls
live in just a few minutes. Last week if you
missed the show Doug grant k1 DG was here to
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HamTalk Live. Sorry for the delay your host Neil
rap is reading a book on anti -gravity and he
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them you heard it on HamTalk Live Get your adapters
connectors and whatever you need Well joining
us tonight is Jerry Buxton in zero Jay why he's
been a ham since 1972 and Jerry says he enjoys
giving cute to the community by sharing his God
-given talents to help build ham satellites and
help out communities with disaster response Jerry
says there's more things to do in amateur radio
than he could ever get done, but he likes to
bounce around between satellites and HF and CW
and voice, digital, you name it. He operates
his HK5JY from Columbia when visiting his wife's
family along with his XYL KD5 FCQ. And Jerry
is the vice president of AMSAT North America
in charge of engineering and is also the Texas
District 4 radio officer for RACES. So Jerry,
thank you for coming on HamTalk Live tonight.
Good evening, Neil, and thank you for inviting
me. Good to be here. Yeah, we've been we've been
wanting to get you on here for a while. And the
timing just worked out great because Just last
week in fact just a few hours after this show
last week Fox 1d was successfully launched and
been hearing and seeing some of the reports coming
in on Twitter looks like a Fabulous job by the
team Sean kx9x Mentioned that he heard it with
an HT and a rubber duck out in Connecticut and
You know, just, just had it there without really
aiming or trying. And, um, some of the images
that have been, uh, downloaded already from it
have been incredible. So fill us in on the latest,
uh, happenings on the first week of Fox one D.
Very well. Fox one D did launch at, uh, free
59 AM UTC last Thursday night for us here. from
India on a PSLV launch vehicle, and at about
four, excuse me, make that five, 18 a .m., we
expected that it came alive, and we did hear
telemetry shortly thereafter. So once we had
the telemetry downlink, it could officially become
an AO, and it was designated AO 92 on Friday.
One of the first things we do after we watch
it run until we get a good pass over the US is
just look at telemetry that's gathered by all
of the helpful hams throughout the world. We
distribute Fox telem software, which works with
all of the Fox satellites. And in capturing the
telemetry, the user can see what everything that's
going on, but it also relays it to our central
server and gives us the opportunity to check
up on things even when it's not within range
of the US. So when it came around the next day
we did put it into safe mode and then shortly
thereafter we put it into transponder mode. Transponder
mode of course is the mode that users are typically
familiar with and that is when it operates as
as a repeater essentially a crossband repeater.
And when we did that we did we do a little bit
of voice check out there and one of the command
stations Drew Glassbrenner, K04MA. He sits in
his shack office there and pulls out his HT and
it has one of the quarter inch aftermarket whips
on it. I mean, excuse me, quarter inch would
be nice, right? Yeah. Quarter wave. Quarter wave,
how's that? That'd be some high frequency. Well,
we're going there too. I can tell you more about
that later. So with five watts at 10 degrees
elevation, he said, he got in to AO 92 just fine.
So it is nice and sensitive. Of course, when
it's busy, that's probably going to be a lot
harder to make a QSO that way. But nonetheless,
it's working very well. And all the Fox satellites
have 500, 600 milliwatts output, so they're pretty
easy to hear even with a rubber duck, although
you have to remember to point it around for polarity
because it's not straightened up and down like
we're used to with our HTs down here. And the
whole week then, Yeah, we've been running through
what we call the in orbit checklist and we do
a number of tests Fox 1D has more experiments
than Fox 1A or Fox 1B did which are AO 85 and
AO 91 so we've been Going through steps to test
the experiments The camera was the first one
that we looked at early on and as you mentioned
there have been some really nice pictures returned
from that the team at Virginia Tech The team
of students, we partnered with them and they
built and provided the experiment as our Fox
One satellites, CubeSats, are designed to be
able to hold four slots of experiments, whether
one experiment uses one of them or uses all four
of them, then we can host experiments in there.
So the Virginia Tech camera takes up one of those
and looks out the top end, if you will, the plus
Z end of the satellite. And the 320 by 240 pictures
that they're returning are amazing. If you don't
see them with your Fox2Lem software, you can
see them on the leaderboard AMSAT website. And
I'll put in a little plug that anybody who does
copy even a portion of a picture or any telemetry
whatsoever for that matter with Fox2Lem is contributing
because once that all gets sent to the server,
we will have hopefully enough frames that came
from enough locations to be able to reassemble
the entire picture. So that's why you can usually
catch a full picture on the webpage. And then
we moved on to testing the Herky mode. Herky
is an experiment from the University of Iowa
that is going to measure or map the radiation
belts. It's kind of a similar or a follow on
to what Dr. Van Allen Had done back in the late
1950s and the students put together an experiment
this takes up two bays and it essentially Throughout
the orbit it's gathering data and then we put
it into a high speed mode To be able to download
that delay to data and that's what we were testing
today we ran it a little bit last night and then
again today and Once we have confirmation from
University of Iowa that everything's looking
good with that That we'll check that off the
list We also have one more experiment that we
created ourselves, MSAT, and we call it Downshifter.
Downshifter allows us to have an L -band uplink,
1 .2 GHz, and that means that in addition to
the typical uplink of 435 MHz with the downlink
on 2 meters, we also have the option of turning
on a 1 .2 GHz uplink with the 2 -meter downlink.
They're mutually exclusive, so it'll be in one
mode or the other. The L -band, the downshifter,
as it's so named, is a downconverter. And what
it'll do is receive the L -band, downconvert
it to the 435 .350 megahertz input of the stock
receiver, if you will, on Fox1D. And that will
give us that opportunity to work with L -band.
We'll find a similar one on Fox1C, too. So we'll
probably test that out. I'm thinking about Tomorrow
night to turn it on and give it a give it a little
try everything that we go through is Laid out
in a in a script But we depending on what the
results are and what the opportunities are to
command the satellite We make a few variations
on that and I usually don't unless we need help
with the telemetry or we're gonna do that photos
or something we don't usually broadcast it because
it's just a matter of kind of see what happens
when it comes up sometimes. I expect that by
a week from today, we will be able to open it
up for general amateur radio use. So everything's
looking good so far. All right. Very good. And,
uh, uh, Robert Fitzpatrick says, uh, we need
satellite police 92 AO 92 is a busy satellite.
So need, need some, uh, traffic cops out there,
I guess. Hopefully, we're the only ones keeping
it busy right now. Well, yeah, we hope until
everything's checked out. Well, the main reason
we wanted you to come on tonight was to talk
about your particular expertise, which is building
these things. So give us an idea of what goes
into building one of these, particularly like
Fox1D. Quite a bit of work that goes into them
Let me start kind of at the beginning of the
design of course and the Fox ones are AMSAT's
first CubeSat design and it was conceived back
around 2009 by the then prize president of engineering
Tony Montero AA2TX who's now a silent key and
because of the Success in what AMSAT helped create
as you may know we've been building satellites
for about 45 years and we would hitchhike rides
with them or for them on various launch vehicles
typically as ballast but as it became more and
more interest in space that forces people to
become paying customers. The CubeSat became a
standard because that allows you to make something
that just about any rocket can accommodate in
that sense. So we went after that design and
in the development of the Fox One One of the
things about building any satellite, of course,
you got to look at what your goals are. But for
AMSAT, of course, it's to have a good working
radio that will last a number of years. It takes
a lot of time and costs a lot of money to get
it into space. So while some experiments that
are done, perhaps by some universities and such,
are maybe a year's worth of interest, we're interested
in keeping something up there for. as long as
the orbit will last at least. So the designs,
you have to consider the radiation of space and
the temperature, the temperature swings and a
number of factors that can influence and degrade
your electronics. That leads to careful part
choices, a lot of prototyping and a lot of testing
to make sure that that goes together right. The
CubeSat itself being four inches by four inches
is a a pretty tiny box to put all that stuff
into. So the circuit layout and everything is
quite a bit of work as well. We do subject it
to a lot of testing. It has to be able to survive
the launch vehicle, which can be very violent
actually, the ride to space, compared to what
you're used to thinking. It can be quite a few
Gs of acceleration where the spacecraft are riding.
So we have to make sure that it doesn't fall
apart in vibration testing and we test for shock
and various things depending on the launch vehicle.
The number of hours that are required to put
in, you know, to make sure that that all comes
together are what leads to part of the reason
that it takes some time to get to orbit. Because
again, we don't want to put something up that's
not going to work well. The design of the Fox
1 satellites then was to build more than one
because once you're starting to put this effort
and money into the research and development,
You get much better turn on reverse investment
if you make make more than one of them so there
are a number of Engineers and everyone who works
on these as a volunteer everyone they're working
on them it's similar to working on any amateur
radio project you might work on where you build
something and Then but we've got a large group
of people doing it because there are so many
different things that go into it and a lot of
different skills that are involved it Excuse
me. It requires quite a bit of understanding
and technique because once you launch it, you
can't fix it. If you build a project in your
shack, for example, you might turn it on. It
doesn't work quite right. You can change things.
Even though we test it right up until launch,
if something doesn't go quite right in space,
of course, we're stuck with what it is. So it
takes quite a bit of time. I don't know. There
might be some people out there that... That would
volunteer to say hey, you know what? I'll just
go up there and fix that Yeah, that's true. I
don't think that would go over though Well, it's
uh, I Actually if it costs as much as it does
to launch a CubeSat to launch a human to fix
it You may as well just probably build another
That's true So the the amount of It is like a
big project, but it's just got a lot more tricks,
a lot of different things to think about that
you don't typically encounter, I guess you'd
say, in a standard radio, more or less, what
we're used to dealing with as far as ham radios.
We designed it to be able to hold the experiments.
This gives us opportunities for launches because
of the NASA CubeSat launch in this. where it's
part of their outreach to further education and
exploration and such. The STEM education that
comes with students developing and flying an
experiment board is part of the value that NASA
is looking for, that they're willing to pay for
the cost of a launch. And so that helps us to
put that up there. We're, of course, very great
with radios, AMSAT is, and therefore, as far
as bringing telemetry down. It's an excellent
way to do that. And it benefits education and
learning for everyone throughout the world, really,
because they have radio in itself. Of course,
it's obviously a place to foster education as
well as goodwill and communication and to learn
things. So just putting a transponder in space
is an opportunity for everyone to be able to
learn something from that. Excellent, excellent
stuff. You've got to also get into some of the
physics of maintaining that orbit and keeping
everything going. So how do you make those little
adjustments and keep those things running for
years and years? The CubeSats that we're flying
are passive, they don't have any attitude control,
the Fox one, they don't have any propulsion.
So, and that's true of a large number of the
CubeSats that are launched, especially the size
that they are, it's difficult to put that in
there, plus the number of radios and experiments,
etc, that we do. But so it's launched and it's
deployed. And essentially, it will just float
around in that orbit, if you will, until the
orbit eventually decays. And there is no control
of it. Now we do have control through the sense
that there is a magnet, a bar magnet, in each
one of these that's along one side. And what
that does is generally keep the plus Z axis,
or the top end as we tend to think of it here
on Earth, pointed toward the north magnetic pole.
So that keeps it stable in that respect. We also
use the photon effect of photons reflecting off
of different darkness materials through the sides
of it. If you look at a picture of a fox, you'll
see we have gold and then we have some darker
colored rails and such. And that imparts a bit
of a spin to it. So that, of course, the spin
around the axis provides stabilization as well.
But that's the maximum of that. If we have no
way to control it, to boost it or reenter it
or anything like that, it takes its own course
and comes down when nature says, nature and physics,
that it's time to do that. With our future satellites,
we'll get into more of that, but talk about that
in a bit. Okay, very good. Well, some great information
and learning a lot about building satellites
here with Jerry Buxton. J .Y. and we'll be back
to talk some more with him and take your phone
calls and tweets and whatever else you have.
We'd love to have you participate. Again, that
phone number is 812 -NET -HAM -1, 812 -638 -4261
and we'll open up the phone lines right after
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you go to Hamvention maybe you can run down and
visit the museum. Well, it's time for your calls
now. If you have a question for Jerry from AMSAT,
give us a call. The time is now. So let me give
you that phone number again. It's 812 -NET -HAM
-1 -812 -638 -4261. Or you can Skype us. We're
HamTalk Live on Skype as well as on Twitter.
And you can tweet your questions. to us. And
while we're waiting to see if we have some questions,
Jerry, you kind of teased us here a little bit
with the next project coming up and that may
have some attitude control to it. So tell us
about the new project that you're going to be
working on. Very good. The Fox One being the
first CubeSat Amsats built, we learned a tremendous
amount from it. And the CubeSat form factor is
the current way to go to space. So what we're
looking at with the next project is called GOLF.
And that's an acronym for greater orbit, larger
footprint. And the greater orbit, in other words,
the higher your orbit is, the larger footprint,
the more area of the Earth the spacecraft can
see. And therefore you have a wider area that
that you can span with two stations talking to
each other. So golf is also because we had echo
was AO 51 and then Fox is the various Fox one
cubes. That's five of them that we've built.
And so golf is also the next letter in phonetically.
Golf is the word golf is golf. T is going to
be the first one. And what it is is sort of a
rapid deployment of this technology. We are going
to put attitude, determination, and control,
and we will have deployable solar panels. It's
going to be a 3U CubeSat form factor, which is
basically 12 inches tall, if you will, by four
inches by four inches per side. It's like three
1U CubeSats stacked up. This will give us an
opportunity for more power. more room inside
for batteries and the ability to deploy the solar
panels, the attitude determination and control
allows us to point the satellite for either maximum
power with the solar panels or to point antennas.
And one of the things that we're moving toward
is to use microwave bands for a couple of reasons.
The BHF and UHF are extremely crowded right now.
Microwave bands, of course, have megahertz, tens
of megahertz available that give us the opportunity
to, you know, spread out, have a lot more signals,
a lot more going on. And if you add a couple
of digital type digital techniques with that,
then you can get quite a bit of interesting stuff
going on within the microwave bands. So we're
going to be flying some prototypes or precursors
of that as we work toward or as we develop our
five and dime concept. Five and dime is the the
name we coined for the 5 GHz uplink and 10 GHz
downlink, or C -band and X -band, that we'll
be using. Those are bands that have a lot of
bandwidth available, as I said, to amateur radio
for satellites, and they give us, of course,
with these smaller wavelengths, you don't need
as big an antenna. You can use horns and patch
antennas and such, and that's where the satellite
pointing can come into play, to be able to get
higher gain at higher altitudes. which with,
of course, if you want to try to get gain with
a 70 centimeter or two meter antenna, you're
talking about a pretty large antenna. So we're
looking, we're pretty excited about that. That's
going to give us the chance to be able to begin
using these various things. And the golf program
in itself is designed to be a stepping stone
as we learn and develop these technologies to
get to heel back to the high, highly elliptical
orbit. which are the ones that would cover a
hemisphere for about 12 hours a day, like AO
-40, AO -13, and AO -10 in the past. We have
a program within AMSAT called ASCENT, which is
an acronym for the Advanced Satellite Communications
and Exploration of New Technology. It's a skunkworks,
essentially, with a bunch of engineers who just
go off and do what they will, what they wish,
and play around. the ideas that they come up
with some very cool ideas about that we can apply
to future satellites, you know, like the microwave,
the digital, various attitude control and thrust.
And so the golf series gives us gives us an opportunity
to be able to take these things that they're
developing. And as a matter of fact, some of
what were some of the purposes of the golf mission,
golf team mission were driven by what Ascent
has created. And test them out in space in a
lower Earth orbit, which is less expensive, so
to speak, so that we can develop our confidence
and the capability and the systems to be able
to put something up into a higher orbit that
will be reliable. As I said, we want it to stay
up there as long as we can. So that's all coming
together very well in this sense. We've got a
lot of people coming up with great ideas. We
look at the mission opportunities we have, the
launch opportunities, and we put those together.
to come up with this opportunity. Golf T won't
have any, well it will have one experiment on
it from Vanderbilt University, a radiation experiment,
which is similar to what was carried by Fox 1A,
AO -85, and Fox 1B, AO -91. The Golf 1, which
will be the first official series after we do
the rapid deployment and development, will carry
an experiment with a camera, so that'll be another
interesting one. And the ability to point the
satellite aids that quite a bit because then
we're not just seeing random views when the photo
is taken, if you will, but we can actually look
for particular areas pointing toward the Earth
or toward the Moon, what have you. It's going
to be quite an advance. It's going to be very,
very neat. And I think it will help us rapidly
get back to the highly elliptical orbit. The
higher you go, the more expensive it is. So one
of the things that's that's an obstacle for getting
to higher amateur radio satellite orbits has
become pretty, pretty pricey. To put our 1U Fox
satellites up into low Earth orbit, which is
around 500, 600 kilometers, it costs approximately
$125 ,000. That's manufacturer's suggested retail
price, if you will, on a launch. But then if
you triple that into a 3U, you're talking about
$300 ,000. as you go up with a 3u to a geo transfer
orbit or gto which is basically a highly elliptical
at the equator you're talking about nine hundred
thousand dollars for a 3u satellite so it costs
a lot of money to get there and especially when
we do go for that launch we want to make sure
we have something that isn't going to be a nine
hundred dollar you know test but we want to have
some good solid practice and understanding behind
it. So I expect that over the next five years,
we will have put up several golf satellites that
gives us the opportunity to develop these techniques
and be looking for those launches that'll get
us even higher. On some exciting stuff coming
up. I look forward to hearing how How that goes
with the attitude control and everything that
that's that's pretty cool So let me give you
that phone number again. It's 812 -638 -4261.
It spells out 812 -NET -HAM -1. If you have a
question for Jerry or you can tweet us, now's
the time to do that. We have a few minutes remaining
in the show. So if you have something that you
want to ask, like Tom Crowe here in 5TTI, he
wants to know, were there any major adjustments
made? Fox 1A and 1D. The reason he asks is because
1B seems to be much easier to work than 1A. And
that's right on. There weren't any design adjustments
made per se. Fox 1A, the first one up, AO -85,
it is hard of hearing. In other words, it's not
as sensitive as we had planned, nor as we would
like to see. The Fox One series was designed
to be able to be worked with a five watt handheld
radio and a handheld antenna like an Aero or
an Elk antenna. And AO85 is on the edge of that.
The problem is that in putting it together when
we had the flight model together, the antenna
is soldered onto the solar panel. The antenna
is a whip made of nitinol wire. So what turned
out is that the solder basically cocooned around
the antenna. And we, of course, didn't know that
until it just came out of the solder, you know,
like maybe two weeks or so before we were due
to go to environmental testing and hand it over.
So at that time, looking at what our options
were with it, one thing you don't want to do
is take a satellite apart because then you have
to retest everything that you've done up to that
point. It was Opted that it had been tested before
on earth that if we use this conductive epoxy
To hold it on but that should satisfy the need
of getting it on there quickly and the least
intrusive way of doing it so we did do that and
We also added some regular epoxy over that just
for strength It turns out that in in doing that
some of the epoxy apparently overlapped some
of the traces You know, it was just a little
bit outside of where the solder would have gone
on the circuit board traces and it wound up detuning
the antenna. And that was our determination once
it got to orbit that that was the reason that
Fox 1A is hard of hearing. So with the subsequent
Fox satellites, especially since the solder didn't
hold, we came up with a new technique for soldering
the antennas. So that was the design change,
if you want to call it that. And Fox 1B, C, D,
and E will all have that new change. Fox 1B or
AO -91 proved that the new technique works and
that the cause for AO85's hearing problems is
the antenna. So we corrected that. FOX1D seems
to also demonstrate that it's very sensitive,
you know, with the HT and a whip type of contact.
And that's what happened there. Okay. Good answer
there. And Tom, thanks for tweeting into us and
asking that. Got a few other comments here Robert
ke4al says if you're stuck at work, nothing beats
listening to Jerry great info and updates and
and Jeff we4b says good show so far so thank
you Jeff and thank you Robert for listening.
We appreciate that and And Robert Fitzpatrick
will see what we can do about the satellite cops.
I don't know if we can get any of those launched
or not. But Jerry, this is kind of a crazy thing,
but I'm going to say it anyway because sometimes
I just say things that come to mind. One of the
things that I've always joked about, and I'm...
I have a chemistry degree, I teach chemistry,
so I'm always interested in the science experiments
that go up as well as the ham radio. And so one
of the things that we always have joked about
over the years was wouldn't it be nice to do
a radiation study at the Dayton Hamvention and
just see how much radiation being produced by
all of those hams all in one place. So you were
talking about the golf satellite and doing some
radiation studies and being able to maneuver
and point the cameras and point everything in
the direction. So let me throw this out there
for the team and say can we do a study on the
electromagnetic radiation coming out of Dayton
in May? You know that's an interesting thought
there that you know everybody does an RF exposure
study or at least considers it. I wonder if they
take into account what happens when you get a
whole bunch of hams together. Do you need a massive
one? The radiation that I referred to of course
is Your high -energy particles type of stuff
because in space one of the things that we deal
with is you've got these high -energy particles
either trapped in the Van Allen belts and the
radiation belts around the earth or cosmic rays
or or Particles coming from the Sun and those
are heck on electronics. Of course, you can buy
radiation hardened components, but they're really
expensive. I mean a $1 or less Typical commercial
off -the -shelf chip can could cost like for
example $400 for a radiation hardened version
And those are slightly made up numbers, so don't
call me in on that. That's one of the things
that we're working with. And part of the design
that we talked about at the beginning is finding
parts that can withstand the radiation. Sea moss
is something we generally tend to avoid because
it can latch up. It's called a single event latch
up. And what happens is a particle gets into
the substrata there and it essentially turns
it on and leaves it stuck that way, creating
a short, and you wind up with a high current
flow. But the Vanderbilt University experiments
that they're flying, they actually put commercial
off -the -shelf parts such as memory on a board,
and they fly it up there and they look at the
amount of radiation exposure it's getting by
loading a pattern into the memory, if you will,
ones and zeros, and then watching it change over
time as low energy. Protons hit it and flip the
bits and that helps everybody in looking at the
opportunity for lowering cost by being able to
Characterize and and select commercial off -the
-shelf components that'll work as far as RF radiation
electromagnetic that we're used to dealing with
as hams the Fox one series gives us an opportunity
to do some mapping of the earth. I mean, excuse
me. I'm at the golf and by being able to point,
we have considered that, you know, looking at
Earth in various wavelengths as we orbit and
seeing just generally a signal level, you know,
as you as you pass over various countries or
the oceans or what have you. Something like this
was done with AO 51. And they have they actually
did some mapping like that to look at what goes
on on the frequencies that they have, which was
two meters, 70 centimeters and Yeah, there was
a receiver on 1 .2 gigahertz the L band So that
had been done before and we're considering looking
at the idea of continuing it especially into
the microwave There's an interesting thought
because that's where we're gonna want to go.
So you don't want to be picking up Taxis on microwave
with our future satellites or something Which
has happened, you know that two meter band gets
to be used around the world a lot by non -hams
Well So maybe I wasn't too far off then. You
got it. Now, now focusing on Dayton. I don't
know if we got that resolution yet, but I'll
tell you what, I'd be able to get a picture.
How's that? There we go. Now that, that would
be a picture of a picture of a hamvention from
outer space. There we go. Hey, we got a tweet
in, but we are down to about a minute here. And
before we sign off, sorry, I got to ignore the
tweet there that came in. But if someone is interested
in helping out in some way, whether it be building
or donating to the cause at AMSAT, how do they
do that? Everybody's welcome. First of all, the
The way to do that is go to the AMSAT website,
www .amsat. That's Alpha Mike Sierra Alpha Tango
.org. And there is a link in the menu bar to
how to help AMSAT. And volunteers are something
that we need a lot of because everything that's
done here is done by people that are just doing
this for fun, essentially. One, engineering,
we can always use volunteers because there's
a lot of work to be done and of course it cuts
the risk of a mission by being able to have more
than one volunteer working on something because
real life often interrupts what we do in our
hobby, as you well know. If you can't volunteer
time, then money, if you will, there's more than
engineering. Check the website, there's a lot
of other things you can do to help, but also
money is useful. because that helps to pay for
these launches. They're getting expensive and
building the satellites, so anything you can
do. If you can send in five bucks a week instead
of buying a fancy coffee, that makes a big difference.
I mean, over a year, you've bought one of the
systems on a Fox One satellite. Okay, well there
you go and Amsat org and the tweet here is from
Don KB to YSI and he says give Jerry and all
of hams had a huge Thank you for the most fun.
He's had in the last 15 years of ham radio. He
started working the birds after Dayton Last year
and enjoys the challenges. So we're gonna have
to end it there. But Jerry, thank you so much
for coming on and well We may be talking to you
again soon. Thank you again. Have a good night.
All right. That's a wrap for this week's HamTalk
Live. Thanks to Jerry and everybody for listening.
Next week, Rob Sherwood, NC0B is going to be
with us. We're going to look at the ICOM 7610
numbers that he got a hold of. For a list of
all of our upcoming guests, visit HamTalkLive
.com. For now, this is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG, saying
seven three, seven five, and may the good DX.
Be yours!