WEBVTT 00:00:11.849 --> 00:00:14.589 Thanks for tuning in. HamTalk Live will be on 00:00:14.589 --> 00:00:32.509 the air shortly. Please stand by. Thanks for 00:00:32.509 --> 00:00:35.270 tuning in. HamTalk Live will be on the air shortly. 00:00:35.570 --> 00:00:47.060 Please stand by. This episode of ham talk live 00:00:47.060 --> 00:00:50.859 is brought to you by tower electronics for connectors 00:00:50.859 --> 00:00:54.159 cables and more visit them at a ham fest near 00:00:54.159 --> 00:01:02.619 you or call 920 435 2973 or online at pl -259 00:01:02.619 --> 00:01:36.840 .com Good evening everyone out there in radio 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:42.420 land. It's HamTalk Live episode number 99. Receiver 00:01:42.420 --> 00:01:48.040 data on the ICOM 7610 and receiver comparisons 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:53.439 with Rob Sherwood NC0B recorded almost live on 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:58.590 Thursday January 25th 2018. I'm your host Neil 00:01:58.590 --> 00:02:03.290 Rapp WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning in to this episode 00:02:03.290 --> 00:02:05.730 of HamTalk Live. Tonight we're joined by Rob 00:02:05.730 --> 00:02:09.810 Sherwood in C0B from Sherwood Engineering and 00:02:09.810 --> 00:02:13.810 last week on the show Jerry Buxton in Zero JY 00:02:13.810 --> 00:02:16.530 was here to talk about building satellites and 00:02:16.530 --> 00:02:20.560 AMSAT's new Fox 1D. If you missed the show, you 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:23.539 can listen anytime. Just go to HamTalkLive .com 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:26.939 and you can listen to us there, or you can listen 00:02:26.939 --> 00:02:30.539 to the podcast version. It's on just about every 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:36.620 podcast app out there. Upload to Apple Podcasts, 00:02:36.659 --> 00:02:39.340 Stitcher, iHeart Podcasts, Google Play, TuneIn, 00:02:39.379 --> 00:02:43.580 and SoundCloud. We're also over on YouTube, so 00:02:43.580 --> 00:02:46.280 you can pick us up anywhere there. Well, normally 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:49.080 we try to have a live call -in segment with our 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.319 guests, but due to some scheduling conflicts, 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:55.840 Rob Sherwood wasn't able to be with us live tonight. 00:02:56.340 --> 00:03:00.520 So as they say on The Gong Show, tonight we're 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:06.169 almost live! But he did record an interview and 00:03:06.169 --> 00:03:10.509 so we took questions by social media in advance 00:03:10.509 --> 00:03:13.969 of the show. So we are going to answer some listener 00:03:13.969 --> 00:03:16.629 questions tonight, but we won't be doing that 00:03:16.629 --> 00:03:20.189 live. So tonight I'll be playing the interview 00:03:20.189 --> 00:03:23.729 and then afterwards I'll follow up with reading 00:03:23.729 --> 00:03:29.520 his answers to the questions that came in. ahead 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:33.180 of time. So we'll do that and I'll be back with 00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:35.960 Rob right after this word from Tower Electronics 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.780 right here on HamTalk Live. This episode of HamTalk 00:03:39.780 --> 00:03:42.860 Live is brought to you in part by Tower Electronics. 00:03:43.069 --> 00:03:45.490 Tower Electronics has been the Ham's Dime Store 00:03:45.490 --> 00:03:48.889 since 1978. When you need connectors, mobile 00:03:48.889 --> 00:03:52.150 and handheld antennas, cables, or adapters, visit 00:03:52.150 --> 00:03:55.729 Scott or Jill at a HamFest near you. Or you can 00:03:55.729 --> 00:04:01.909 order online at PL -259 .com or call 920 -435 00:04:01.909 --> 00:04:06.930 -2973. Stock up on those supplies like PL -259 00:04:06.930 --> 00:04:10.210 and end connectors, SMA adapters, audio cables, 00:04:10.490 --> 00:04:37.839 soldering supplies, mobile antennas, A clean 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:41.339 house is a sign of a broken radio. You're listening 00:04:41.339 --> 00:04:56.480 to HamTalk Live with Neil Rapp. Thanks as always 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:58.839 to Scott and Jill at Tower Electronics for helping 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:04.060 bring you HamTalk Live tonight. This weekend 00:05:04.060 --> 00:05:07.620 they're at Arcadia, Florida at the ham fest there 00:05:07.620 --> 00:05:11.660 on Saturday and also Saturday Jill will be over 00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:16.699 in Collinsville, Illinois and Then February 9th 00:05:16.699 --> 00:05:20.519 10th and 11 they'll be at hamcation in Orlando, 00:05:20.819 --> 00:05:23.720 Florida So if you're at any of those shows, make 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:27.410 sure you look for tower electronics And if you're 00:05:27.410 --> 00:05:32.430 not, you can give them a call at 920 -435 -2973 00:05:32.430 --> 00:05:37.930 or visit their website at PL -259 .com and tell 00:05:37.930 --> 00:05:42.329 them you heard it on HamTalk Live. Well, tonight's 00:05:42.329 --> 00:05:46.089 guest is Rob Sherwood, NC0B. He first licensed 00:05:46.089 --> 00:05:50.449 in 1961 with a novice license, WN8ADB, at age 00:05:50.449 --> 00:05:55.949 14 in Cincinnati, Ohio. He upgraded to General 00:05:55.949 --> 00:05:58.449 Class in about two months and changed his call 00:05:58.449 --> 00:06:02.930 sign to WA8ADB. He operated as Portable Zero 00:06:02.930 --> 00:06:05.930 in the mid -70s out of Colorado, and now he lives 00:06:05.930 --> 00:06:09.029 there just east of Fort Collins. He upgraded 00:06:09.029 --> 00:06:12.529 to Advanced and Extra in the 80s and that's when 00:06:12.529 --> 00:06:17.370 he got his current call sign NC0B. In 1974 Rob 00:06:17.370 --> 00:06:20.990 founded Sherwood Engineering offering Drake radio 00:06:20.990 --> 00:06:24.149 upgrades which he still does today. He started 00:06:24.149 --> 00:06:29.139 testing transceivers in 1976, and that total 00:06:29.139 --> 00:06:33.279 has grown now over 100. And that data is available 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.899 online at his website, Sherwood Engineering. 00:06:37.660 --> 00:06:44.379 And that's S -H -E -R -W -E -N -G dot com. NC0B 00:06:44.379 --> 00:06:47.699 dot com will get you there as well. Sherwood 00:06:47.699 --> 00:06:50.459 Engineering now offers modifications to many 00:06:50.459 --> 00:06:53.319 shortwave receivers. and is an authorized dealer 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:55.860 of Japan radio receivers and still makes parts 00:06:55.860 --> 00:07:00.079 and upgrades for the Drake R4C including roofing 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:02.579 filters, crystals, capacitor replacement kits, 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:07.819 and even owner's manuals. So as they say on the 00:07:07.819 --> 00:07:11.240 sports cast, let's go to the tape. All right, 00:07:11.259 --> 00:07:14.740 tonight we're with Rob Sherwood of Sherwood Engineering, 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:19.389 NC0B and He's had a chance to do some testing 00:07:19.389 --> 00:07:24.790 on the ICOM 7610 and do some of his receiver 00:07:24.790 --> 00:07:27.750 performance comparisons, and we've had him on 00:07:27.750 --> 00:07:29.930 the show before. In fact, I think, Rob, you're 00:07:29.930 --> 00:07:35.569 still the top -rated show on the program. All 00:07:35.569 --> 00:07:37.470 right. Well, we'll keep our fingers crossed if 00:07:37.470 --> 00:07:41.379 we can do it twice. Yeah. Well, tell us. About 00:07:41.379 --> 00:07:46.279 the 7610 and what you found out with it compared 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:49.060 to some of the other radios that you've tested 00:07:49.060 --> 00:07:54.300 and what do you think of it? Well, I'm impressed 00:07:54.300 --> 00:07:57.800 with it and really the people probably want to 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:00.680 know how does it compare to the 7300. So of course 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:04.740 I've had the 7300 coming up on two years in April. 00:08:07.310 --> 00:08:10.589 These courses 7610 was kind of delayed in shipment 00:08:10.589 --> 00:08:14.649 or at least being sold in the US So it actually 00:08:14.649 --> 00:08:19.209 arrived on a Friday The same time that the a 00:08:19.209 --> 00:08:22.009 double RL 10 meter contest was starting later 00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:24.569 that evening about whatever five o 'clock my 00:08:24.569 --> 00:08:28.829 time So my wife was good enough to stay in town 00:08:28.829 --> 00:08:31.750 in Denver and then drive it up here in the middle 00:08:31.750 --> 00:08:35.000 of the afternoon on the Friday I was prepared 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:37.440 for it in this way in that I have three operating 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.159 positions here. So I had one of them empty, ready 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:43.899 to drop it in place and hook it up to an ACOM 00:08:43.899 --> 00:08:48.419 1000. And it was ready to go and time for the 00:08:48.419 --> 00:08:50.279 contest. Of course, the 10 meter contest when 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:55.360 it starts at 5 p .m. local time isn't open for 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:58.740 too long. So I think I got 45 minutes in and 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:03.139 mostly maybe exclusively CW. So I got to use 00:09:03.139 --> 00:09:06.379 it all day, well, that limited amount on Friday 00:09:06.379 --> 00:09:08.740 evening, all day Saturday. Unfortunately, I had 00:09:08.740 --> 00:09:11.440 other conflicts on Sunday, but 10 meters was 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.100 even in worse conditions on Sunday than it was 00:09:14.100 --> 00:09:17.940 Saturday, so I didn't miss much. The next contest 00:09:17.940 --> 00:09:23.179 I ran was the W1BB Stu Perry on December 30th. 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:25.700 That's a CW contest. On the other end of the 00:09:25.700 --> 00:09:30.899 band, 160 meters versus 10 meters. and actually 00:09:30.899 --> 00:09:34.460 the week before that a double rail 10 meter contest 00:09:34.460 --> 00:09:40.899 I ran the 7300 in the a double RL 160 CW contest 00:09:40.899 --> 00:09:45.059 so I was using the those two radios kind of back 00:09:45.059 --> 00:09:47.000 -to -back over that month and so it was a good 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:52.919 way to compare very good, so You you did some 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.019 of the the typical number crunching that you 00:09:56.019 --> 00:10:01.480 do with receivers I assume and How did the numbers 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:04.620 turn out? Well the numbers were somewhat better 00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:08.000 than the 7300 as you would expect and hope in 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:11.240 the standpoint of dynamic range. I saw an email 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:14.720 from a gentleman who had both of them and he 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:16.860 said he was so disappointed he was listening 00:10:16.860 --> 00:10:20.940 to a weak beacon on six meters and he could hear 00:10:20.940 --> 00:10:25.120 the exact same signal identically. on the 7300 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:29.559 versus 7610. And I'm thinking, yeah. I mean, 00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:32.779 the noise floors of my two samples are within 00:10:32.779 --> 00:10:35.519 1 dB of each other. And so 1 dB, we're talking 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:39.720 about sample variation of 1 dB, or laboratory 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:41.980 measurement of 1 dB. I mean, this is, quote, 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:44.679 in the noise. So one would expect them to be 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:47.299 able to hear. I mean, receivers today have no 00:10:47.299 --> 00:10:49.980 trouble hearing, unless it's blown out or something 00:10:49.980 --> 00:10:55.149 like that. So how did the numbers compare with 00:10:55.149 --> 00:11:00.389 some of the higher end rigs? Let me bring up 00:11:00.389 --> 00:11:03.370 my website here and all that so I can look at 00:11:03.370 --> 00:11:06.210 it, but it's not at the top of the list, but 00:11:06.210 --> 00:11:09.629 this is really because direct sampling radios 00:11:09.629 --> 00:11:13.470 are vastly different from your legacy radio. 00:11:14.370 --> 00:11:16.230 One thing I want to explain, people get out of 00:11:16.230 --> 00:11:18.409 my website a lot and there's a lot of information 00:11:18.409 --> 00:11:20.779 there. They sometimes get carried away and think 00:11:20.779 --> 00:11:22.980 there's only one number in the world that you 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:24.840 should look at. And that's kind of crazy. And 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:27.659 I've mentioned that virtually every presentation 00:11:27.659 --> 00:11:30.039 I've made from Contest University to all the 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:33.039 HamFest I've had the pleasure to speak at. You'd 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.019 need to look at the whole picture. But of course, 00:11:35.259 --> 00:11:38.259 this table is sorted some way. You have to sort 00:11:38.259 --> 00:11:41.000 it by something. And it's sorted by close to 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.600 end dynamic range, which is most critical for 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:47.450 CW pileups, de -expeditions, and contests. Now, 00:11:47.450 --> 00:11:50.850 it's kind of funny that the top radio that's 00:11:50.850 --> 00:11:54.990 been on my website since, well, 2014 was the 00:11:54.990 --> 00:12:00.570 Flex 6700, but it was only on the top when the 00:12:00.570 --> 00:12:04.470 preamp was on. And the league tested it a few 00:12:04.470 --> 00:12:08.029 months later in the early 2015, and they got 00:12:08.029 --> 00:12:11.350 the same result. The preamp made the legacy numbers 00:12:11.350 --> 00:12:14.470 the way we measure radio's like for the last 00:12:14.470 --> 00:12:18.299 40 years. It made it slightly better, even though 00:12:18.299 --> 00:12:20.500 you really don't want to run the preamp on the 00:12:20.500 --> 00:12:25.860 lower bands. That'd be crazy. But then I had 00:12:25.860 --> 00:12:28.639 another sample that came in two years later, 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:36.899 actually in 2017, and I was testing it along 00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:41.320 with the Ellicraft K3S, and for whatever reason, 00:12:41.539 --> 00:12:43.980 turning on the preamp no longer made the numbers 00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:47.350 a little bit bigger. So you'll see on my website 00:12:47.350 --> 00:12:51.190 that the even though the K3 or the K3s didn't 00:12:51.190 --> 00:12:55.250 change from testing it a few years later or on 00:12:55.250 --> 00:12:57.409 this case on 10 meters because I was really trying 00:12:57.409 --> 00:12:59.309 to compare the two and make apples and apple 00:12:59.309 --> 00:13:03.549 comparison so We just have to consider that somewhat 00:13:03.549 --> 00:13:05.789 of an anomaly doesn't mean there's anything wrong 00:13:05.789 --> 00:13:09.350 with the 6700 it's just I just say take the number 00:13:09.350 --> 00:13:11.950 with the preamp off is the number that you should 00:13:11.950 --> 00:13:18.059 really compare so we've got the ICOM 7851 ahead. 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:23.179 Well, I would hope so. It's $13 ,500. The Hilberling 00:13:23.179 --> 00:13:27.500 is ahead, but it's not really a CW radio. It's 00:13:27.500 --> 00:13:30.820 mostly a sideband radio. So it doesn't have all 00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:35.409 the features you'd want like QSK or really tight 00:13:35.409 --> 00:13:37.529 selectivity even though they did drastically 00:13:37.529 --> 00:13:41.190 upgrade it from a 500 Hertz filter to a 250 but 00:13:41.190 --> 00:13:43.490 you know sometimes in a contest or a pile -up 00:13:43.490 --> 00:13:47.269 you need to go down to 150 or 100. So the Hilberling 00:13:47.269 --> 00:13:50.009 with crystal filters can't do that. And then 00:13:50.009 --> 00:13:53.090 there's the somewhat anomaly and at the KX3 is 00:13:53.090 --> 00:13:56.029 listed also fairly high but you have to consider 00:13:56.940 --> 00:14:00.580 Read the footnotes. And if you look at its opposite 00:14:00.580 --> 00:14:03.759 sideband rejection, it's a phasing radio. The 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:06.720 numbers are not all that high. So you just have 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:10.539 to say, OK, I have to kind of get a handle on 00:14:10.539 --> 00:14:12.779 what the numbers mean and read the white paper 00:14:12.779 --> 00:14:15.379 you can click on that explains all that. So where 00:14:15.379 --> 00:14:21.220 did it come in? It had in the companion receiver, 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.940 you know, the R8600. Of course, it's a DC light 00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:28.210 radio. They came in at the same numbers. at 98 00:14:28.210 --> 00:14:33.269 dB for the close end dynamic range with IP+. 00:14:33.269 --> 00:14:37.070 So really, I've said for a long time, if you've 00:14:37.070 --> 00:14:40.789 got an 85, let alone a 90 dB radio, you've got 00:14:40.789 --> 00:14:44.570 a good radio. There's approximately a dozen and 00:14:44.570 --> 00:14:46.990 a half radios that are going to perform well 00:14:46.990 --> 00:14:49.549 for most people most of the time. We don't stress 00:14:49.549 --> 00:14:52.309 our radios to the max all the time. It's a good 00:14:52.309 --> 00:14:55.710 thing because all those radios we had back In 00:14:55.710 --> 00:14:58.230 the upconversion only days, that was like 20 00:14:58.230 --> 00:15:00.929 years or more, starting with the TR7 and up through 00:15:00.929 --> 00:15:06.289 like the Pro3, they were 70 dB radios, 7 -0. 00:15:06.769 --> 00:15:10.090 And they were sort of OK on sideband and not 00:15:10.090 --> 00:15:12.230 really adequate on CW, but that's all we had. 00:15:12.669 --> 00:15:14.690 So luckily, I mean, if they didn't work at all, 00:15:14.769 --> 00:15:15.870 you couldn't have bought them and you couldn't 00:15:15.870 --> 00:15:18.590 have used them. So most of the time we can get 00:15:18.590 --> 00:15:23.850 away with 85, 90 dB radios and the 7610 is one 00:15:23.850 --> 00:15:28.889 of those. Okay, very good. So we've talked before 00:15:28.889 --> 00:15:32.629 on the show about how you go through and do a 00:15:32.629 --> 00:15:36.769 lot of those tests and everything. And you said, 00:15:37.409 --> 00:15:40.429 like you were just saying a while ago, one DB's 00:15:40.429 --> 00:15:42.529 difference at that point isn't going to make 00:15:42.529 --> 00:15:45.409 a big difference in the world. It comes down 00:15:45.409 --> 00:15:50.320 to other things that you have to consider. After 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:54.220 being able to use this for two contests and to 00:15:54.220 --> 00:15:57.659 be able to kind of casually use it and You've 00:15:57.659 --> 00:16:01.679 got the 7300 next to you and and I believe several 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:07.059 other radios including maybe a TS 990 What all 00:16:07.059 --> 00:16:11.820 so what what's your opinion so far on? You know 00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:16.350 picking one over the other Well, if you're a 00:16:16.350 --> 00:16:18.690 CW operator and I'm glad you mentioned the 990 00:16:18.690 --> 00:16:21.669 as you may or may not know mine took a nearby 00:16:21.669 --> 00:16:25.710 lightning and electromagnetic pulse two years 00:16:25.710 --> 00:16:30.350 ago and it was destroyed and It was a long story, 00:16:30.389 --> 00:16:34.610 but my I gave it to my friend in zero qo who 00:16:34.610 --> 00:16:37.049 can fix anything I think maybe could fix the 00:16:37.049 --> 00:16:42.539 shuttle. I don't know the He fixed it with 40 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:44.919 hours of work and about $500. So I gave it to 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:47.340 him, but he's got a new QTH, doesn't have any 00:16:47.340 --> 00:16:51.019 towers up. So I actually used the 990 in parallel 00:16:51.019 --> 00:16:56.279 with the 7300 in the ARRL 160 contest the first 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.080 weekend of December. So that was fun going back 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:03.240 and forth. Well, the 990, of course, has got 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:07.099 solid state TR switching. It's got an audio peak 00:17:07.099 --> 00:17:09.680 filter, and those are really important for the 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:13.299 CW operator. And this 7610 has solid state TR 00:17:13.299 --> 00:17:17.460 switching, no clanking relays, and it has a great 00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:21.680 audio peak filter, just like the 7700 had when 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.839 it was updated, and the ICOM 7800, and of course 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:29.539 the 7851. The ICOM really improved on their APF 00:17:29.539 --> 00:17:32.500 some years ago. With some input from me, I'll 00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:38.089 say. When you if you're talking CW More than 00:17:38.089 --> 00:17:40.910 just casual operating I really like no relays 00:17:40.910 --> 00:17:43.789 clicking and I like a solid state device keying 00:17:43.789 --> 00:17:47.490 my linear Instead of a relay you can't do QSK 00:17:47.490 --> 00:17:51.190 with a 70 300 at 30 words a minute forget it 00:17:51.190 --> 00:17:56.160 so From that standpoint, the 7610 is a major 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.019 update for the CW operator. Now, if I just worked 00:17:59.019 --> 00:18:01.619 sideband and I just was a rag sheaver, I'd have 00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:05.259 a hard time justifying a $3 ,900 radio versus 00:18:05.259 --> 00:18:09.960 a $1 ,200 radio. And even if you did sideband 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:13.799 contesting, the 7300 does a very good job. But 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:16.660 there's a lot more flexibility for the CW op 00:18:16.660 --> 00:18:18.980 and the ergonomics are better just because it's 00:18:18.980 --> 00:18:21.079 a bigger box and you've got all sorts of virtual 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.619 buttons that are on the front panel of the 7610 00:18:24.619 --> 00:18:27.759 that require you to go into menus on the 7300. 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.359 So from an ease of operation, it's a big step 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:35.720 up also. Okay, so the advantages, of course, 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:40.039 you know, of the two receivers and then all the 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.859 extra real estate on the screen, the buttons 00:18:42.859 --> 00:18:46.960 and everything make it a lot better. But as far 00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:50.960 as actual receiver performance, there's one dB 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.140 difference. Well, there's more than that, but 00:18:54.140 --> 00:18:58.660 it's still, either radio will do well most of 00:18:58.660 --> 00:19:00.099 the time. I mean, you can always come up with 00:19:00.099 --> 00:19:02.500 an environment where, you know, something is, 00:19:03.380 --> 00:19:05.720 you know, maybe you stress the radio, but we've 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:08.779 got a 94 dB on one and 98 on the other. That's 00:19:08.779 --> 00:19:12.019 with the IP plus on. With it off, you've got 00:19:12.019 --> 00:19:15.720 81 versus 90. So it's significant, but most of 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:20.079 the time you'll never notice it. you know, the 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.099 more expensive radio has that feature. Now, you 00:19:22.099 --> 00:19:25.000 mentioned, of course, the second receiver. We've 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.240 got Buwe Island coming up, and we know every 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.500 de -expedition works split. I don't care if it's 00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:34.220 sideband, CW, I don't know what RIDDI guys do, 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:37.579 but we work split. So it's gonna be easier with 00:19:37.579 --> 00:19:40.680 the dual receivers, of course. On CW, it'll probably 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:43.079 be up two or three, on sideband, up five or 10. 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.180 with the 7300 you got to poke a button and you 00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:49.180 can kind of bop back and forth between VFO A 00:19:49.180 --> 00:19:53.759 and VFO B but on the 7610 you've got two speaker 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:55.880 outputs or you can hook up your headphones for 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:58.319 stereo and get you know one receiver and one 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.000 ear and one the other you got separate volume 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.019 controls so you can balance them out that way 00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:07.079 so for the in that case it's a big deal I think 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.480 in CQ Worldwide in October, I only worked split 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.400 on 40 meters for one station that I worked. It 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:16.640 was so little split going on that year, last 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.400 year in October, that I was stunned because usually 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.940 I work, I don't know, 10 stations on something 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:26.180 on 40 meters on, you know, the guy I'm working 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:28.720 his way down in the CW part of the band and I'm 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:33.180 up whatever frequency he's listening on. So I 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:36.089 would say on the average day, I would rarely 00:20:36.089 --> 00:20:38.509 use the second receiver. I did play with diversity 00:20:38.509 --> 00:20:42.089 this weekend, and it wasn't too exciting, but 00:20:42.089 --> 00:20:45.890 it worked. I had two Yagi 200 feet apart, and 00:20:45.890 --> 00:20:47.470 you could hear it kind of swirling around as 00:20:47.470 --> 00:20:50.690 the QSB occurred, but it did knock your socks 00:20:50.690 --> 00:20:55.410 off. All right. Well, we did give a chance for 00:20:55.410 --> 00:20:59.039 everybody to send in some questions. on Twitter 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.380 and Facebook and we are recording this a little 00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:06.500 bit beforehand due to Rob's schedule. So we kind 00:21:06.500 --> 00:21:09.819 of did that last minute here. So we'll be watching 00:21:09.819 --> 00:21:13.339 here and see if we get any questions coming in 00:21:13.339 --> 00:21:16.640 from you all out there on Facebook or Twitter 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:19.740 here or Instagram. We'll be watching for those 00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:24.759 as we go on. Okay, so that's part one and I'll 00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:28.460 be back. With more with Rob Sherwood, NC0B, right 00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:30.980 after this word from the National Voice of America 00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:34.539 Museum of Broadcasting, right here on HamTalk 00:21:34.539 --> 00:21:37.660 Live. The National Voice of America Museum of 00:21:37.660 --> 00:21:41.099 Broadcasting located in Westchester, Ohio, just 00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:43.900 north of Cincinnati, is only two minutes off 00:21:43.900 --> 00:21:47.880 I -75. The museum is the former home of the Voice 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:51.519 of America Bethany Relay Station. Tours are now 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:54.059 available every Saturday and Sunday from 1 to 00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:57.119 4 p .m. Eastern Time. You can see the control 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:01.400 room, a 200 ,000 watt transmitter, and the most 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:04.299 comprehensive collection of inventions by the 00:22:04.299 --> 00:22:08.440 iconic Powell -Crosley Jr. Also on display is 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:12.259 a huge antique radio exhibit and R .L. Drake's 00:22:12.259 --> 00:22:15.259 personal collection of most every Drake amateur 00:22:15.259 --> 00:22:19.130 rig ever made. This is a unique opportunity to 00:22:19.130 --> 00:22:22.289 see amateur radio in action and have a chance 00:22:22.289 --> 00:22:27.849 to get on the air from WC8VOA. Admission is only 00:22:27.849 --> 00:22:31.569 $5 a person. The museum is located close to historic 00:22:31.569 --> 00:22:36.289 WLWAM and tons of shopping and restaurants. Take 00:22:36.289 --> 00:22:40.210 a trip to the VOA museum or visit us online at 00:22:40.210 --> 00:22:47.490 voamuseum .org. You're talking ham radio, baby. 00:22:48.069 --> 00:22:52.369 You're listening to Ham Talk Live with Neil Rapp. 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.839 Ham talk lives on the air every Thursday night 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:21.759 at 9 p .m. Eastern time right here at ham talk 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:25.279 live comm Be sure to check us out on Facebook 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:29.359 Twitter and Instagram and we did post some links 00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:32.819 that Rob's going to talk about in this next segment 00:23:32.819 --> 00:23:36.500 up on our Social media sites and it's also in 00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:39.019 the description of the show if you're looking 00:23:39.019 --> 00:23:41.700 at that so you can get some links to some of 00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:44.690 these numbers that he's talking about on his 00:23:44.690 --> 00:23:50.529 website again his website nc0b .com and we'll 00:23:50.529 --> 00:23:53.309 have some more about that later and then we're 00:23:53.309 --> 00:23:56.589 going to take questions that came in on social 00:23:56.589 --> 00:24:00.930 media in the past week we won't be able to take 00:24:00.930 --> 00:24:04.430 any questions live since this is recorded so 00:24:04.430 --> 00:24:06.970 my apologies for that normally that's what we 00:24:06.970 --> 00:24:11.619 do here but we had to get this one recorded to 00:24:11.619 --> 00:24:14.619 accommodate Rob. So we'll go back to the tape 00:24:14.619 --> 00:24:17.579 and finish this up and then I'll come back and 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:21.259 answer some questions that came in and a few 00:24:21.259 --> 00:24:24.380 announcements. But right now here's Rob. We're 00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:27.660 talking to Rob Sherwood in C0B with Sherwood 00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:30.759 Engineering talking about the latest performance 00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:35.869 numbers on the ICOM 7610 and some other radios 00:24:35.869 --> 00:24:39.529 as well. It's been good to hear some kind of 00:24:39.529 --> 00:24:42.950 comparison between, you know, the 7300 which 00:24:42.950 --> 00:24:47.109 made such a huge impact on things being the first 00:24:47.109 --> 00:24:52.119 real SDR in a box. and the numbers were significantly 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.819 higher on it. And then now the 7610 comes out 00:24:56.819 --> 00:24:59.740 with all the added features and just a little 00:24:59.740 --> 00:25:03.000 bit more. So any other things that you've noticed 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.460 here on the 7610 that kind of surprised you? 00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:10.779 Well, let me cover two things. One, you cannot 00:25:10.779 --> 00:25:14.019 underestimate the effect that the 7300 had to 00:25:14.019 --> 00:25:17.059 the world. I think they've sold something in 00:25:17.059 --> 00:25:20.259 the order of 20 ,000 radios. I mean, this is 00:25:20.259 --> 00:25:24.299 just unbelievable. The extremely popular K3 and 00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:29.920 K3S has sold about 10 ,000 in eight years. And 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.339 here we've got a radio that's admittedly a whole 00:25:32.339 --> 00:25:35.160 lot cheaper that's sold a staggering amount. 00:25:35.299 --> 00:25:37.420 And what has it done? It's cratered the used 00:25:37.420 --> 00:25:40.869 market. So if you want something that you just 00:25:40.869 --> 00:25:43.710 couldn't quite budget for. And of all the radios 00:25:43.710 --> 00:25:45.609 that come out, let's say in the last five years 00:25:45.609 --> 00:25:48.509 or 10 years maybe, you can get something at a 00:25:48.509 --> 00:25:50.569 bargain price if you're not going to buy something 00:25:50.569 --> 00:25:52.970 new. So that's been amazing. The other thing 00:25:52.970 --> 00:25:55.970 is, I think it had had to have had an effect 00:25:55.970 --> 00:25:59.930 on what Flex offered or just showed at Dayton 00:25:59.930 --> 00:26:03.990 this past year. Flex radio with knobs because 00:26:03.990 --> 00:26:07.519 it became. Fairly apparent as you just said that 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:12.880 a SDR with knobs sold like hotcakes and I understand 00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:18.960 that the 6600 M is maybe Began to ship as we 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.200 speak or within the next few days Somewhat later. 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.660 I'm sure than they hoped so the raid the 7300 00:26:25.660 --> 00:26:28.700 was kind of a blockbuster as far as affecting 00:26:28.700 --> 00:26:31.980 the market The other thing that we need to understand 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:36.269 and this is not very intuitive is that the direct 00:26:36.269 --> 00:26:38.829 sampling radios, and I don't care whose it is, 00:26:40.349 --> 00:26:43.329 we have to be much more conscious of how we run 00:26:43.329 --> 00:26:46.910 our preamp, if we run it at all, and how we run 00:26:46.910 --> 00:26:52.390 our attenuators. The legacy radios, if it's got 00:26:52.390 --> 00:26:56.130 a narrow roofing filter, like, say, a K3. Well, 00:26:56.170 --> 00:27:00.089 most of the time, 99 % of the signals don't make 00:27:00.089 --> 00:27:03.200 it past the first mixer and the crystal filter. 00:27:03.460 --> 00:27:05.460 And we've got, let's say we've got the preamp 00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:09.019 off, the signal comes in the mixer, we've got 00:27:09.019 --> 00:27:12.539 the 500 Hertz or whatever roofing filter, and 00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:15.200 then that's it. So everything outside that roofing 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:19.680 filter isn't even downstream to get overloaded 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:22.160 or anything. Well, with the direct sampling radios, 00:27:22.180 --> 00:27:24.240 this is totally different. It's kind of like 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:26.339 a roofing filter that's as wide as the whole 00:27:26.339 --> 00:27:29.630 band, depending on whatever the... front -end 00:27:29.630 --> 00:27:32.990 filtering is. And in this case, the 7610 has 00:27:32.990 --> 00:27:35.990 a tracking preselector. It's only a one pole, 00:27:36.049 --> 00:27:40.329 so it isn't dramatically effective. But on 40 00:27:40.329 --> 00:27:43.069 meters, if you're on the low end of the 40 -meter 00:27:43.069 --> 00:27:48.509 CW band, like 7020, and there's a broadcast station 00:27:48.509 --> 00:27:51.990 at 7250 that's running a megawatt out of Europe, 00:27:52.710 --> 00:27:56.880 well, the Did you select their tracking free 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:01.460 selector will knock that down maybe? 10 DB approximately 00:28:01.460 --> 00:28:06.900 depends on where he is up above 7 .2 But if it's 00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:08.680 a signal, but if you're on the phone band and 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:12.519 you're on 71 90 of course the tracking pre selector 00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:15.279 isn't going to help So we have to watch our gain 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:19.220 our net gain, and this is not that obvious Too 00:28:19.220 --> 00:28:21.720 many people say, well, I can't hear, so I'm going 00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.900 to turn the preamp on, even if I'm on 40 meters. 00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:27.440 And that's just crazy with anybody's radio. But 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:31.119 with the direct sampling, since it's so broad, 00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:34.440 it may be receiving the entire handband and then 00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:38.859 some. We have to be very careful that we don't 00:28:38.859 --> 00:28:41.180 run the preamp when it's not appropriate. And 00:28:41.180 --> 00:28:43.619 we run an attenuation. And people say, well, 00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:45.279 if I run the attenuator, I'm not going to be 00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.309 able to hear. And that is not true. if we use 00:28:48.309 --> 00:28:51.210 some reason. If band noise is reading upscale 00:28:51.210 --> 00:28:53.549 on your S meter, and certainly at night on 40 00:28:53.549 --> 00:28:55.769 meters, what, if you're lucky if it didn't read 00:28:55.769 --> 00:29:01.029 S7. Yeah, exactly. So turn the attenuator on 00:29:01.029 --> 00:29:03.569 or the RF gain, whichever you like. I happen 00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:07.450 to like the new feature on the 7610 that has, 00:29:07.630 --> 00:29:10.809 you can adjust the attenuator in three dB steps. 00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:13.680 You push on the attenuator button, hold it in 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.240 for like a second or two, and suddenly it goes 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.660 to a new mode, and you turn the multi -function 00:29:18.660 --> 00:29:21.240 knob, and you can go 3, 6, 9, 12, clear up to 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.160 45 dB. I don't know what you do with 45 dB, but 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:30.119 I set it at 3, 6, 9, 12, 18, and so I can adjust 00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:32.900 that attenuation so the band noise, instead of 00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:36.589 reading S7 on 40 meters, it reads S1. And that's 00:29:36.589 --> 00:29:38.730 what you'd rather like. Or maybe it reads as 00:29:38.730 --> 00:29:41.269 zero. There's no reason for band noise to be 00:29:41.269 --> 00:29:43.250 reading upscale, and it just makes it tiring 00:29:43.250 --> 00:29:47.009 because whoever's talking pauses for a second 00:29:47.009 --> 00:29:50.750 or you're in CW between words. And particularly 00:29:50.750 --> 00:29:53.349 if you happen to like fast AGC, which I don't, 00:29:53.490 --> 00:29:55.589 well, the band noise can be as loud as the guy 00:29:55.589 --> 00:29:58.549 you're talking to. Why do you want that? Well, 00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:01.230 I don't. Makes me tired. So if you can adjust 00:30:01.230 --> 00:30:04.250 your attenuation so band noise is just below 00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:07.880 AGC threshold, it's not going to affect sensitivity 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:10.799 at all. You're going to be able to receive just 00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:12.900 as well and the band noise won't drive you crazy. 00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:19.700 Very good information and glad to hear some of 00:30:19.700 --> 00:30:22.779 that. Now some of the early reports on the 7300 00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:27.680 The the IP plus that we're talking about here 00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:30.859 some people were saying, you know Oh, you don't 00:30:30.859 --> 00:30:33.319 want to run that on like field day when you've 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.640 got a bunch of radios around and you know and 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:42.019 some high noise environments it was just Really 00:30:42.019 --> 00:30:45.339 bad. So this year at field day. We actually got 00:30:45.339 --> 00:30:49.420 a chance. I was planning on okay I've heard I've 00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:53.200 heard this said I'm not gonna use it and lo and 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.539 behold, yeah, we ended up going to the school 00:30:56.539 --> 00:31:01.279 to do field day and here we are with the 7300 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:03.960 and so we tried it. In fact, we even turned on 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:08.400 the IP Plus just to see what would happen. So 00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:10.680 what did you see? What did you observe? We didn't 00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.339 have a single problem. Did not have a single 00:31:14.339 --> 00:31:18.079 issue with the other radios right there within 00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:21.509 a few hundred feet. Okay, so what band were you 00:31:21.509 --> 00:31:28.369 on? Mostly 20 and 40 Okay, well, let me make 00:31:28.369 --> 00:31:33.049 a comment on IP plus on my 7300 I never use it 00:31:33.049 --> 00:31:35.990 period what I think it wasn't a great choice 00:31:35.990 --> 00:31:39.950 of term because even though One should never 00:31:39.950 --> 00:31:44.089 publish an IP 3 value for a direct sampling radio 00:31:44.089 --> 00:31:47.289 because it has no meaning whatsoever And I think 00:31:47.289 --> 00:31:52.180 the leagues finally quit doing that But IP plus 00:31:52.180 --> 00:31:56.180 implies that it raises the overload point, which 00:31:56.180 --> 00:32:01.240 it does not. All IP plus is, is dither. Now dither, 00:32:01.299 --> 00:32:05.039 what the heck does that mean? It's just, if a 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:09.339 chip has dither built into it, then it can take 00:32:09.339 --> 00:32:12.500 the low distortion products that are fairly weak 00:32:12.500 --> 00:32:15.500 and probably blow band noise on the lower bands, 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:21.029 40, 80, 160. Turns the distortion products into 00:32:21.029 --> 00:32:25.109 noise if the radio is done right which the 7610 00:32:25.109 --> 00:32:30.089 is This 7300 was not it doesn't degrade the noise 00:32:30.089 --> 00:32:33.250 floor much if you're on 40 meters I don't think 00:32:33.250 --> 00:32:35.430 you would ever tell the difference with the noise 00:32:35.430 --> 00:32:37.329 floor because the band noise is going to be high 00:32:37.329 --> 00:32:39.809 enough Whether you punch it in or punch it out 00:32:39.809 --> 00:32:45.769 waste of time but on the 7300 IP plus raises 00:32:45.769 --> 00:32:49.190 the noise floor between 11 and 13 DB which on 00:32:49.190 --> 00:32:51.130 10 meters you wouldn't want, 15 you wouldn't 00:32:51.130 --> 00:32:55.509 want. The 7610, it only raises it about three. 00:32:55.910 --> 00:32:57.869 And for instance, to compare the Perseus that 00:32:57.869 --> 00:33:00.170 was the first direct sampling receiver I owned, 00:33:00.369 --> 00:33:02.490 it only raises about two. So that's what you 00:33:02.490 --> 00:33:07.910 expect. I don't think most of the time anyone 00:33:07.910 --> 00:33:10.470 is ever gonna tell the difference whether they 00:33:10.470 --> 00:33:12.930 got it on or off. So I just ignore it. But at 00:33:12.930 --> 00:33:15.789 least it's there and it's done much better because 00:33:15.789 --> 00:33:18.440 they did a better job with the clock. you know, 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:21.880 the clock oscillator in the unit on the 7610 00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:25.400 than the 7300. So the fact that it didn't make 00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:27.519 it worse, it didn't make it better, no big surprise, 00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:30.380 particularly on 40 meters. Now, if you'd been 00:33:30.380 --> 00:33:32.140 on 10 meters, you probably would have noticed 00:33:32.140 --> 00:33:33.940 that you couldn't hear as well if it was the 00:33:33.940 --> 00:33:39.059 weak signal. Okay, very good. And so you've noticed 00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:42.299 that the 7610 definitely would do that better 00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:48.140 than the 7300 on 10, 15? Absolutely. It only 00:33:48.140 --> 00:33:53.920 degrades at about 3 dB. People should experiment 00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:56.079 with it in a situation. They think they're kind 00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:59.619 of being stressed and give feedback as to what 00:33:59.619 --> 00:34:04.839 they see, but I doubt most people will ever know 00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:06.980 the difference. I've never run it yet on either 00:34:06.980 --> 00:34:10.659 radio, certainly on 10 meters. Conditions were 00:34:10.659 --> 00:34:13.679 poor this year as they were last year. even worse. 00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:16.960 And so strong signal overload is not an issue. 00:34:17.539 --> 00:34:20.840 And so the last thing I wanted was to degrade 00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.719 at all. And I certainly ran the preamp on 10 00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:25.880 meters. And of course, on 160, what did I do? 00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:32.039 I was comparing the, well, for the W1 BB contest, 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:35.500 all I ran was a 7610. Wasn't comparing it to 00:34:35.500 --> 00:34:39.219 anything. But on the ARRL contest, the first 00:34:39.219 --> 00:34:43.000 weekend of December, I was comparing the 990 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:47.940 with the 7300. The 990, I had the attenuator 00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:52.360 on 18 dB. So it was comparable to the 7300 with 00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:55.800 its only attenuator choice of 20 dB. So I had 00:34:55.800 --> 00:35:00.539 to be fair. And that actually placed band noise 00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:03.460 further below AG series threshold than I typically 00:35:03.460 --> 00:35:07.250 run, but it was very wonderful from a... fatigue 00:35:07.250 --> 00:35:09.530 standpoint. There was just no fatigue. And also 00:35:09.530 --> 00:35:13.110 the noise reduction of both radios, the 7300 00:35:13.110 --> 00:35:16.309 or the 7610, I like it. It's actually the first 00:35:16.309 --> 00:35:18.929 two radios I've ever run noise reduction where 00:35:18.929 --> 00:35:24.070 I liked it. So on 10 meter CW, I ran 3dB. I mean, 00:35:24.210 --> 00:35:26.289 I ran it on three out of 10. It's adjustable 00:35:26.289 --> 00:35:29.630 from zero to 10. And in 160 with its band noise, 00:35:29.690 --> 00:35:35.210 I ran it on three on CW. So the Keeping noise 00:35:35.210 --> 00:35:37.610 under control, band noise under control is really 00:35:37.610 --> 00:35:40.409 important if you're going to be on the air for 00:35:40.409 --> 00:35:44.809 10 -20 hours, let alone more than that. So that 00:35:44.809 --> 00:35:49.929 was a very nice feature for both radios. All 00:35:49.929 --> 00:35:52.750 right. Well, I've been checking here, and again, 00:35:52.849 --> 00:35:56.230 we apologize for this being recorded to the listeners 00:35:56.230 --> 00:35:59.690 and not having a whole lot of notice to send 00:35:59.690 --> 00:36:02.110 in questions, but I'm not finding anything on 00:36:02.110 --> 00:36:07.329 there. Well, we're wrapping this up, Rob. Just 00:36:07.329 --> 00:36:11.769 anything else that you want to mention in your 00:36:11.769 --> 00:36:14.730 runnings of the new radio since last time we 00:36:14.730 --> 00:36:19.949 talked? Well, what's coming up, hopefully, for 00:36:19.949 --> 00:36:26.010 CQ Worldwide 160 on January 26th is there is 00:36:26.010 --> 00:36:31.150 a new Apache Anon. 7 ,000 DLE sitting in my home 00:36:31.150 --> 00:36:33.670 in Denver. It came on Friday after I'd already 00:36:33.670 --> 00:36:35.730 come up here at my contest station on Thursday. 00:36:36.210 --> 00:36:39.010 So I will be grabbing that tomorrow, playing 00:36:39.010 --> 00:36:41.250 with it in Denver. I won't be running it through 00:36:41.250 --> 00:36:43.769 the lab yet. I'll just have to make it work. 00:36:44.429 --> 00:36:46.869 And then I'll bring it up here next weekend and 00:36:46.869 --> 00:36:50.769 get it ready to, I'll have one weekend to get 00:36:50.769 --> 00:36:53.170 all the software sorted out. I mean, that is 00:36:53.170 --> 00:36:56.199 the one thing that's. You only have to do it 00:36:56.199 --> 00:36:59.139 once but you've got to get it set up to use an 00:36:59.139 --> 00:37:01.039 external tuning knob because I don't like to 00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:05.019 tune with the mouse Get it to n1 mm plus to work 00:37:05.019 --> 00:37:07.159 with the radio to talk to each other get it to 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:11.340 key the linear and all that stuff and So that's 00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:13.420 the plan for the next two weeks is to get ready 00:37:13.420 --> 00:37:18.079 for the Apache All right, well we'll be looking 00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:22.139 forward to hearing more about that and I appreciate 00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:26.539 you taking the time to come on the show and get 00:37:26.539 --> 00:37:30.219 this recorded for us and been anxious to hear 00:37:30.219 --> 00:37:34.619 what your response is on that 7610 because it's 00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:37.599 a mighty good -looking radio. Let me mention 00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:41.780 one thing that's been kind of a glitch and it's 00:37:41.780 --> 00:37:46.000 probably like 99 % sure it is a software issue. 00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:49.380 Some people have had issues with the main receiver, 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:51.639 just those dead and they have to punch a button 00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:54.500 or power cycle it, and the mothers have had a 00:37:54.500 --> 00:37:57.260 tone come on and the audio goes dead except for 00:37:57.260 --> 00:38:01.420 a tone. I'm sure ICOM's working on that. I haven't 00:38:01.420 --> 00:38:03.760 seen it. I don't imagine most people have, but 00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:07.300 if you are on the 7610 Yahoo Reflector, there 00:38:07.300 --> 00:38:10.619 is half a dozen or a dozen people that have been 00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:15.079 frustrated. So this is a... software -defined 00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:22.699 radio. This is totally different. See the 7300 00:38:22.699 --> 00:38:26.239 used pre -existing software from like the Pro 00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:29.079 3 and so they didn't have to write code from 00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:32.519 scratch, but this radio has a field programmable 00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:35.659 logic array like some of the other and maybe 00:38:35.659 --> 00:38:37.639 probably all the other the Apache or the Flex 00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:41.920 or whatever and so ICOM had to write code that 00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:44.659 was from scratch. And so if there's a bug or 00:38:44.659 --> 00:38:47.280 two, no big surprise, that's why it's upgradable 00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:52.840 with a little SD card. Yeah, and that's a whole 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:56.039 lot easier than trying to change out a bunch 00:38:56.039 --> 00:39:00.179 of components. We like that little SD card upgrade. 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.719 Yeah, or like on an NRD 545, you had to pull 00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:07.860 out chips that were the size of your thumb and 00:39:07.860 --> 00:39:11.260 plug new chips in. Well, that's passe today. 00:39:13.150 --> 00:39:17.550 Well, it sounds like it's pretty well under control 00:39:17.550 --> 00:39:21.090 and hopefully those folks that are having trouble 00:39:21.090 --> 00:39:25.289 with it will get a software upgrade soon and 00:39:25.289 --> 00:39:28.110 that will take care of it. Again, Rob, thanks 00:39:28.110 --> 00:39:30.670 so much for coming on the show and sharing your 00:39:30.670 --> 00:39:32.670 results with us and we look forward to talking 00:39:32.670 --> 00:39:36.070 to you again soon about some more. All right. 00:39:36.190 --> 00:39:39.050 Well, I'm glad we could work it out. here and 00:39:39.050 --> 00:39:41.469 even if it'll be recorded, hopefully they'll 00:39:41.469 --> 00:39:44.699 enjoy it. Thank you. All right, so if you're 00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:47.260 interested in seeing this data, again, it's available 00:39:47.260 --> 00:39:53.619 online at Rob's website. That's NC0B .com. And 00:39:53.619 --> 00:39:55.900 if you're interested what all these numbers mean 00:39:55.900 --> 00:39:59.699 and how Rob gets all of the data, check out HamTalk 00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:03.519 Live episode number 29. Just go back in the archives 00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:07.260 at HamTalkLive .com or on the podcast version 00:40:07.260 --> 00:40:10.739 and you can see how he comes up with all these 00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:14.860 numbers. So we do have a couple of questions 00:40:14.860 --> 00:40:19.619 that came in throughout the week after we recorded 00:40:19.619 --> 00:40:22.860 this and Rob was good enough to answer by email. 00:40:23.739 --> 00:40:26.239 So the first question was from Dr. Scott Wright 00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:30.940 K0MD and he asked why do you think the DR3 is 00:40:30.940 --> 00:40:34.980 substantially lower than the Flex SDRs design 00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:37.539 or chip factors maybe and what did you measure 00:40:37.539 --> 00:40:41.800 RMDR at? And Rob's response was that They're 00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:47.699 not really. The Flex 6700 that he tested in 2014 00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:52.119 and ARRL tested in 2015 measured higher with 00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:56.260 the preamp on than off. And no one knows why, 00:40:56.260 --> 00:40:59.739 including Gerald Youngblood, the man who started 00:40:59.739 --> 00:41:04.699 Flex. When Rob tested the second sample of the 00:41:04.699 --> 00:41:09.659 6700 in March 2017, it was no longer the case. 00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:13.960 And when the League tested a 6500 in February 00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:18.800 2017, again, no longer the case. So look at the 00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:24.820 preamp off number for Rob's test in 2014 on the 00:41:24.820 --> 00:41:31.039 6700 and it's 99 dB. In 2017 the more recent 00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:35.579 sample was 99 with the preamp off and 96 dB with 00:41:35.579 --> 00:41:38.739 the preamp on instead of 108 dB with the preamp 00:41:38.739 --> 00:41:45.050 on. He did have a footnote in 2014 saying that 00:41:45.050 --> 00:41:47.230 the data does not imply you should generally 00:41:47.230 --> 00:41:51.769 run the preamp. It's just a testing anomaly of 00:41:51.769 --> 00:41:55.769 direct sampling receivers. So there's a minor 00:41:55.769 --> 00:41:59.230 scatter of data with several direct sampling 00:41:59.230 --> 00:42:04.449 SDR radios. The Apache Anon 200D is 99 dB. The 00:42:04.449 --> 00:42:09.469 Percy is 99 dB. The 7610 from ICOM is 98 dB with 00:42:09.469 --> 00:42:15.889 the IP plus on. The ICOM R8600 98 dB with IP 00:42:15.889 --> 00:42:22.369 plus on. The Flex 6700 in 2017 was 99 dB with 00:42:22.369 --> 00:42:28.900 the preamp off. 96 with it on. The Flex 6500 00:42:28.900 --> 00:42:33.960 that ARRL tested in 2017 is 102 dB with the preamp 00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:38.940 off, 100 dB preamp on, and the IC 7394 dB with 00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:44.199 the IP Plus on. And as far as RMDR goes, at 2 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:50.389 .5 kHz it was 112 dB, 5 kHz 115. 10 kilohertz 00:42:50.389 --> 00:42:55.449 119, 15 kilohertz 121, and 20 kilohertz over 00:42:55.449 --> 00:43:00.449 122. And there's some links that we put in the 00:43:00.449 --> 00:43:04.550 social media and on the notes on here about these 00:43:04.550 --> 00:43:08.150 radios. So if you go to nc0b .com slash 70 300 00:43:08.769 --> 00:43:13.389 or slash 7610 or slash 8600 or slash 990. You 00:43:13.389 --> 00:43:16.190 can see some of those comparisons in the 990 00:43:16.190 --> 00:43:20.010 one does a comparison of the 7300, the 7610, 00:43:20.050 --> 00:43:24.630 and the 990 in contest. The other question that 00:43:24.630 --> 00:43:28.489 came in was from Carl KD9HQT. Want to know how 00:43:28.489 --> 00:43:32.469 accurate the digital meter is on the 7610 compared 00:43:32.469 --> 00:43:36.550 to a traditional analog meter? And Rob says it's 00:43:36.550 --> 00:43:40.449 S9 with the preamp off. negative 73 dB and 50 00:43:40.449 --> 00:43:44.050 micro volts. Above that the S meter is very accurate. 00:43:44.690 --> 00:43:47.650 Below that an S unit is about 3 dB and closer 00:43:47.650 --> 00:43:51.469 to 2 on the low end. With the preamp on it's 00:43:51.469 --> 00:43:55.409 about negative 80 dB, 23 micro volts and all 00:43:55.409 --> 00:44:02.380 that's at nc0b .com slash 7610. It also mentions 00:44:02.380 --> 00:44:07.480 that if the R8600 was set to DBM instead of S 00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.960 units, it's very accurate in any signal level 00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:13.699 with preamp or attenuator setting, but too bad 00:44:13.699 --> 00:44:15.780 the transceiver doesn't have that option that 00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:19.219 could be in the firmware. Well, we're just about 00:44:19.219 --> 00:44:21.380 out of time. I want to mention the AM Rally. 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:23.519 We'll talk about it later. It's coming up on 00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:26.280 Saturday, February 3rd. I also want to mention 00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:29.280 Contact Sport. The audible version is getting 00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:33.420 ready to come out. I talked to 3BB and said it's 00:44:33.420 --> 00:44:36.940 all ready to go. And the Young Ham Lens Hand 00:44:36.940 --> 00:44:39.320 Award nominations are out there. If you know 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:42.659 somebody 19 or under, you can nominate for that. 00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.289 We'll be talking about that later. Next week 00:44:45.289 --> 00:44:48.510 we hope to have Bouvet Island on live. We're 00:44:48.510 --> 00:44:50.369 going to be talking Bouvet Island next week. 00:44:50.929 --> 00:44:54.170 So seven three seven five and may the good DX 00:44:54.170 --> 00:44:55.329 be yours.