This episode of HamTalk Live is brought to you
by Tower Electronics. For connectors, cables,
and more, visit them at a hamfest near you or
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Good morning, everyone. It's time for HamTalk
Live. It's episode number 105, using WinLink.
Recorded live on Thursday, March 8th, 2018. I'm
your host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning
in to this episode of HamTalk Live. Tonight,
we're joined by Steve Waterman, K4CGX, and Phil
Sherrod, W4PHS. about Windlink and we'll take
your calls live in just a few minutes. Last week
on the show Andy Malusi KK4LRW was here to talk
about the Collegiate Amateur Radio Initiative
and if you missed that you can always listen
just go to HamTalkLive .com and you can listen
to any of the past shows and if you have a podcast
player on your phone or your tablet or Online
you can go to any of those podcast outlets and
hear us as well on the podcast version We're
on Apple podcast stitcher. I heart podcasts Google
play tune in SoundCloud and also over on YouTube
You can catch us there and a lot of other podcast
players as well So you can find us just about
anywhere So have your questions ready to go after
the interview. You'll be able to call us and
a little word of warning if we can't get... calls
tonight, which I think we can, but we were having
some Skype difficulties during our test a while
ago, so we'll hope for the best here. The phone
number is 812 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812 -638 -4261.
You can definitely call us on Skype. We're HamTalk
Live on Skype. And, of course, you can send us
a tweet. We're on Twitter. handle is at hamtalklives
we'll be checking that after we get through the
interview part of the show and we'll look for
you in one of those and again we hope the phone
lines are are back in order but Skype is being
Skype again like it used to be so live radio
at its best. So hopefully that'll work out. But
I'll be back with Steve and Phil right after
this word from Tower Electronics right here on
HamTalk Live. This episode of HamTalk Live is
brought to you in part by Tower Electronics.
Tower Electronics has been the Ham's Dime Store
since 1978. When you need connectors, mobile
and handheld antennas, cables or adapters, visit
Scott or Jill at a HamFest near you. Or you can
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-2973. Stock up on those supplies like PL -259
and end connectors, SMA adapters, audio cables,
soldering supplies, mobile antennas, Who is the
most dangerous person in the world? A ham with
some wire, a potato gun, and an idea. Now, here's
Neil Rapp with more HamTalk Live. Thanks again
to Scott and Jill at Tower Electronics for sponsoring
the show tonight to help bring you HamTalk Live.
They'll be in Toledo, Ohio at the AmFest there
on March 18th and April 6th and 7th. They'll
be in Belton, Texas. And on April 7th, they'll
be in Staunton, Wisconsin as well. And you can
always reach them online at PL -259 .com and
by telephone at 920 -435 -2973. Well, our guest
this evening our Steve Waterman K4 CJX from Nashville,
Tennessee. He's the WinLink 2000 network administrator
and part of the WinLink development team. Steve
has been a licensed TAM since 1955 and he operated
CW from 1955 until 1984. Uh, when he was introduced
to digital communications and he's an auxiliary
member of shares, the department of homeland
securities, national cybersecurity and communication
integration center, national coordinating center
for communication, shared resources, high frequency
radio program. But yeah, that's why you just
call it shares. Um, and it serves on, uh, the
data working group and acts as its wind link
administrator. He's also on the FEMA Region 4
Regional Communications Coordinating Working
Group and serves as chairman for their OXCOM
Working Group. He's a member of the Tennessee
Emergency Management Agency Communications Unit,
the Tennessee Homeland Security District 5 Communications
Committee, and the Williamson County EMA Reserve
Program. Phil Sherrod, W4PHS, is from Brentwood,
Tennessee, and that's just outside of Nashville.
is one of the lead software developers for Windlink,
specifically the user software. Phil earned his
extra class license in 2009. He is an assistant
emergency coordinator for Williamson County ARES
and named communicator of the year for Navy Mars
in 2014. Phil is an avid contester, DXer, and
volunteer examiner. Phil has also developed extensive
training on MCOM, especially revolving around
Windlink. Phil is also active in shares and I
won't read the whole acronym thing. But the Tennessee
Emergency Management Agency Communications Unit
and the Williamson County EMA Reserve Program.
And you can find out more about WinLink at WinLink,
W -I -N -L -I -N -K dot org. So Steve and Phil,
welcome to HamTalk Live. Well, thank you. Thank
you. Good to be here tonight. All right. Well,
I had reached out to you all to be on the show
and I honestly know very, very, very little about
Windlink. And I know that right here in our community,
we have a VHF node and some friends of mine said,
yeah, well, you know, if you need to, you know,
in a disaster to put a spreadsheet across, you
know, and send it somewhere across town through
this and you've got, you know, locations that
you have closed or something, and you need that
in a spreadsheet where it would take too much
time to do it by voice, you can do it over WinLink.
And so that's something that's being kind of
experimented with in this area. So tell us exactly
what WinLink is and how it works. I'll take the
lead on that. Windlink is a worldwide system
for sending email via radio. When I say worldwide,
I'm using that term literally. I don't know of
any place on the face of the earth where a person
with an HF radio, a decent antenna, cannot send
and receive email through the Windlink system.
The email it sends is standard email. It is just
like you'd use with Yahoo or Gmail. It's a text
message and it can have attachments. The attachments
could be pictures. They have to be small pictures.
You can't send giant pictures. It could be spreadsheets.
It could be Word documents, PDF files. So you
can send multiple attachments. You can send text.
You can also send HTML forms, which are nice,
attractive -looking ways of sending information
like an ICS213 form. And when you send a message
into the WinLink system, you can either send
it, address it to another WinLink user, or you
can address it to a standard internet email address
like a Yahoo or Gmail account. If you do that,
the message goes into the WinLink system and
then the WinLink system after receiving it forwards
it on through the internet to the ultimate recipient
who could be a Comcast user or someone else.
And that person can reply from their non -WinLink
system and it goes back to the WinLink system
which then stores it in one of our common message
servers, which is our backbone system, until
the recipient connects to the system and then
retrieves their messages. It could work in a
jungle. It could work in the middle of the Atlantic
or Pacific Ocean. We have RMSs you can connect
to literally all over the world. It's been used
in virtually every incident where communication
was cut off for significant periods of time.
Most recently, it was used extensively in Puerto
Rico after the hurricanes ravaged that area and
all the other communication was down. But it's
been used many times in other hurricane areas,
particularly along the Carolinas and in Florida,
Katrina. It's been used in other incidents as
well. Certainly, when they had the earthquake
in Haiti some years ago, it was used extensively
to communicate from the island after that. So
that's a big picture. It's a system for sending
and receiving email via radio. Typically, it's
used over HF radio, but it also can be done over
UHF radio using packet formats rather than the
HF protocols. OK. We do the VHF thing around
here. That's something additional there. Now,
if you're wanting to add WinLink to your toolbox
for MCOM, so say you want to set up a VHF system
for this, how do you go about setting that up
and then how would you use that in an emergency?
Sure. Well, there's a big difference, of course,
between VHF, UHF packet -based connections and
HF connections. Let me talk first about HF because
that is the most common use of WinLake. And certainly,
in disasters, you'd want to use HF because VHF,
UHF, which is restricted to the local area, may
not be functional if the local infrastructure
is down. So, for the HF side, there are multiple
ways that you can connect and the speed depends
on your budget, just like buying a car. The deluxe
way, which is used by most agencies and it's
used exclusively as the only method by a shares
organization, is using a protocol called PACTOR,
that's spelled P -A -C -T -O -R. and it uses
a very high -performance modem. Unfortunately,
it's also quite expensive for the individual
ham. It runs $1 ,500 to $1 ,800 for just the
modem, not your radio and computer, but just
the modem itself, in fact. That's a lot of money
out of the pocket of an individual ham, but for
agencies that are used to spending $5 ,000 to
$7 ,000 on... P -25 radios to go on the belt
of a cop or fireman, it's very affordable. Now,
for an individual ham who doesn't have $1 ,500
to $1 ,800 in their budget to buy a Paktor modem,
you can do it using a sound card protocol. And
the sound card protocols are just as reliable
as Paktor. They do not have quite as good a signal
to noise ratio, and they are not as fast as Pactour
in terms of sending large attachments. But for
small messages, they work just very well. And
we have several different sound card protocols.
The most popular one currently is one called
WinMore, but there's a transition going on from
WinMore to a new one. that's been developed called
RDOP, A -R -D -O -P, and there's another one
called VARA, V -A -R -A, that's coming along
as well. So you've got multiple choices in the
sound card field. Now if you use a sound card
protocol and you have a modern radio that has
a sound card built into it, and I think most
modern HF radios that are being produced today
include a sound card in them, then you don't
need any additional hardware at all. have the
computer send the sound digital signals to the
radio sound card, which then does the modulation
for the air. So you don't have to buy any hardware
at all. If you have an older radio that does
not have a built -in sound card, then the way
you go is you buy an external sound card box
called a signal link, S -I -G -N -A -L -I -N
-K, and it's a $100 box that connects between
your computer and the radio and does the sound
card function and sends the sound into the radio
for transmission. So that would be the way to
do it on the HF side. Now on the VHF, UHF side,
there are two choices there, either 1200 baud
or 9600 baud. If you go 9600 baud, then you're
pretty much going to have to buy a hardware modem.
The most popular one is the Cantronics 9612 Plus,
which is $300 to $400, probably closer to $400.
But if you go $1 ,200 bought, then there are
several much less expensive packet modems that
are in the $100 range for $1 ,200 bought packet.
So you've got the first decision is VHF, UHF,
or HF, and then you've got your sub -choices
under that. I might add that the packet is being
replaced in larger communities by a mesh network,
which also works well with WinLink. Phil, you
might want to elaborate on that for that last
mile communication. I'm sure a lot of your listeners
have heard of mesh networks, which are becoming
quite popular in many ham communities and mesh
networks use Wi -Fi signals, microwave, typically
in the 2 .4 or 5 gigahertz range to provide broadband
communication in a community. And the Windlake
software, some of our software works very well
across mesh networks. In fact, we've designed
it to provide functionality specifically for
mesh networks. our RMS relay program works very
well as a post office server on mesh networks.
In addition to being a post office server of
messages sent through the mesh, it also acts
as a pop. IMAP SMTP server so people can connect
using standard email software like Outlook to
send and receive messages through there and into
the WinLink system. So as Steve said, we do integrate
with mesh networks as well. And which is basically
Wendley is it fits into many different categories
into mesh, into VHF, UHF packet and also into
the HF, which is used most widely and apparently
certainly the most important in terms of emergency
communication support. OK, now. Then what do
you have to have as far as the software goes?
You, you write the software. What, what do you
have to have, uh, as far as that goes to get
it? Well, the first good news is all of our software
is free. Uh, we do a request and would appreciate
a small donation from those who use it, but that
is totally optional. Uh, you can use it forever.
as much as you want without sending anybody whatsoever.
So there's no cost to using the Windlink system.
No cost for the software and no cost for sending
or receiving messages wherever you may be. In
terms of the software you need, for an end user
who is connecting into the Windlink system and
they're not running one of our radio message
server sites, for an end user they just need
one program and that is the Windlink Express.
Windlink Express is a program that we produce,
Windlink development team produces, that is an
email client specifically for Windlink. It's
a very rich feature program with lots of features,
but it's also very simple to use. You can get
started literally in a matter of minutes, and
I have taken people who have never seen it before.
and had them using it effectively to send and
receive messages literally within less than 15
minutes. It's not hard at all. On the other hand,
it has a lot of features deeper in it that you
can grow into, picture editors and HTML forms
and all sorts of things. So the answer to your
question is you need the WinLink Express program.
OK, so you just download the program, do a little
configuration in that, and you're off and running.
The program can be found on the wind link website.
Um, it's very easy to find a lot of, uh, what
we've talked about on that website. So anybody
that has an interest, it hasn't had an interest
before and wants to experiment could certainly
download that software and have at it. It's pretty
intuitive. Okay. Now, Steve, let's let's switch
over to you here for a minute. Um, You were telling
me earlier about some opportunities to do this
outside of ham radio and and we were Just mentioning
some of that on shares and mesh and all kinds
of different things that this kind of fits into
and with some of the rules and regulations and
that kind of thing sometimes outside the ham
radio world might might avoid some issues. So
why don't you talk a little bit about shares
and some of the dedicated frequencies that you've
got to do this without being in the amateur bands.
Okay, well first of all on the ham bands, Windlink
is worldwide, but there is much more to Windlink
because the hams have generated a lot of interest
because of its success on the handbands during
tsunamis, earthquakes, tornadoes, any kind of
mass casualty event where the local communication
infrastructure is gone and you need to send a
message that doesn't fare well over voice like
an inoculation inventory or what have you. The
problem with the handbands is that the amateur
radio service Part 97 is a public service more
than it is an emergency service. So it's good
for health and welfare. But there are a lot of
regulations that don't allow it to serve the
agency as agencies wish to be served that use
volunteer communicators. including amateur radio
operators. There's HIPAA information. There's
no way to obscure data. There's a lot of people
that cannot operate when a lot of non -government
organizations that cannot operate when they're
being paid. So there's a lot of restriction on
the hand bands. There's no channelization, no
guarantee there won't be interference. So having
realized that, our government and other governments
both have made it possible for agencies to utilize
amateur radio operators for the HF radio emergency
services. A typical EMA or emergency management
agency or a typical communications employee in
any organization is more concerned about public
safety, they're more concerned about fighting
with vendors, they're more concerned about politics,
and the last thing they want to do is learn how
to and operate an HF radio station even though
they realize both voice and data may be necessary
and belonging to so many organizations, they
hear about success stories constantly. So the
government, the Department of Homeland Security,
under what's called Title 32, which is domestic
support for civil authorities and critical infrastructure
partners like non -government organizations,
hospitals, what have you, they have provided
a possibility for agencies And the agencies,
it's highly recommended that these agencies utilize
amateur radio operators to install and implement
these systems and operate these systems. Obviously,
they want the amateur radio operator to be trained
and they want the amateur radio operator to leave
their badges and their club hats and what have
you to door and enter with their skill sets.
So one of the main reasons Windlink was chosen
by NCC shares is because it has the ability not
only to operate as Phil described being a bridge
to the internet but it also has the capability
of operating completely without the internet.
So a radio message server that you would as an
end user communicate into is no longer a conversion
process to take the radio signal and convert
it into TCP IP or in SMTP mail and send it somewhere
else to be sent out as an email message. The
radio message server becomes a node on a giant
HF mesh network. So the Department of Homeland
Security has provided some HF frequencies for
us, quite a few, from approximately 3 to 21 MHz,
and they're mainly exclusive channels that Windlink
operates on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unlike
amateur radio message servers in homes, these
are mostly in hardened sites with a little bit
more stringent requirements and a little bit
more consistency. So, that's how it works here.
Of course, the Canadian military, the Australian
government, the Federation of Micronesia, the
UK, and other countries utilize non -amateur
international Red Cross. I can't pop them out
of my memory that quickly. uh, use both amateur
and non -amateur, uh, services, um, utilizing
Windlink. So there are many aspects of Windlink
that, that the hobbyist, the amateur radio operator,
uh, really doesn't, uh, see, uh, and I hope that
answers your question. Yeah. Okay. Very good.
Well, we need to, we need to get to break, but,
uh, If you do it in just a real quick time, I
do want to mention You know the support you mentioned
that you do have a way to take donations to assist
with the development and the servers so just
real quick can we can we Kind of touch on that
Right. Well you when you you wear a 501 c3 Charitable
organization. That's what funds this That's why
everybody gets things for nothing and the reason
why what we? We have a little built -in What
I call nag screen that pops up when you first
use one link express and you can ignore it By
taking it down and then it might pop up I don't
know what three or four days later if you use
it every single day it might pop up three or
four days later, and then you can ignore it again.
There's a little pop -up screen that gives the
information in Windlick Express, the client program
of how to donate. There's also information on
our website, and there's information on arfsi
.org, amateurradiosafetyfoundationinc .org. That
our website leads to that has That information
so there's two things there's a donation and
there's registration, but they both One you get
a tax write -off for your Donation of any size
the other is a small amount that Is a registration
and it is not tax deductible the registration
you receive a little code, you put that code
inside the Winlink Express and then you never
see the pop -up message again. Okay, very good.
Well, let's take a break here and we'll take
your questions. We've got some coming in already
on Twitter and on the website here. So we'll
get to those and we'll be back right after this
word from the National Voice of America Museum
of Broadcasting and Amateur Radio Newsline right
here on HamTalk Live. The National Voice of America
Museum of Broadcasting, located in Westchester,
Ohio, just north of Cincinnati, is only two minutes
off I -75. The museum is the former home of the
Voice of America Bethany Relay Station. Tours
are now available every Saturday and Sunday from
1 to 4 p .m. Eastern Time. You can see the control
room. a 200 ,000 watt transmitter, and the most
comprehensive collection of inventions by the
iconic Powell -Crosley Jr. Also on display is
a huge antique radio exhibit and R .L. Drake's
personal collection of most every Drake amateur
rig ever made. This is a unique opportunity to
see amateur radio in action and have a chance
to get on the air from WC8VOA. Admission is only
$5 a person. The museum is located close to historic
WLWAM and tons of shopping and restaurants. Take
a trip to the VOA museum or visit us online at
voamuseum .org. Nominations are now open for
the amateur radio newsline, Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF
Young Ham of the Year Award. I'm Don Wilbanks,
AE5DW. Since 1986, we've had the honor of celebrating
the accomplishments of Youth and Ham radio when
we want to know about your exceptional Young
Ham. You'll find the rules and a nominating form
by clicking the Y -H -O -T -Y tab on ARNewsline
.org. Fill it out, send it in, and we'll see
you and an amazing Young Ham at the Huntsville
Alabama Ham Fest in August. Thanks and 73 from
Amateur Radio Newsline. HamTalk Live is on the
air every Thursday night, 9 p .m. Eastern time,
right here at HamTalkLive .com. Be sure to check
us out on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And
it's time for your calls if you have a question
for Steve and or Phil, give us a call at 812.
If you're on Spreaker, you can type us a comment.
We'll see that. And you can tweet us at HamTalk
Live. And that's where we're picking up a lot
of our traffic so far this evening. So first
of all, we heard from Ron and he wants to know,
are there... Are any of the modes when link uses
including the new? Rdop and vera that you guys
just mentioned decodable by third parties Also,
are the users of these modes? Identifying in
a form that the average person monitoring can
decipher if the message content can't be decoded.
Oh Okay Let me answer that the the the any mode
whether it be Pactor, CW, or Packet, whatever,
you have to have an intelligent recipient, sometimes
a machine, sometimes it could be the human ear.
Any of the modes that are on there, if you have
the proper equipment, if you have a Pactor modem,
you can copy Pactor. If you have a Vera, a modem
you can copy. Now the difference is between a
broadcast mode and a data transfer mode is a
broadcast mode does not have ARQ. It does not
have packet by packet error correction. So as
a third party you can copy but you don't get
the error correction. The other aspect of this
is that we use a publicly listed compression
called B2F, which is on our website, winlink
.org slash B2F. The code, the actual code, the
compression code is on the website. For example,
if you downloaded a file that was a text file,
we can compress that 50 some percent. We can
compress a doc file 82 percent, but those are
public decompressions and compressions. That's
what the FCC requires. In addition, there are
two options for identification of a station.
One is FEC, which the FCC asked us to provide
to replace, but we still have it, the CW identification.
So after each transmission, there's an FEC, this
is only on the handbands, there's an FEC identification
or there's a checkbox if you want to go back
to the CW days. and you can use CWID. Does that
answer those questions? Yeah. Phil, did you have
anything on that? Well, literally, the source
code for our compression and decompression can
be downloaded from the windlink .org website.
It's a public domain. The entire source of the
RDoP program, the protocol for modulating and
demodulating and the fast four -year transform
and all that is public domain. It can be downloaded
and examined. There are non -WinLink systems,
BPQ and some others. That send and receive WinLink
messages that use this code So saw a person someone
else other than the WinLink team can use their
what we make available to write their own programs
for Sending and receiving or decrypting or not
decrypting but a parsing messages that we send
Okay, so we we didn't we do not allow any obscuring
of data or encryption on the hand bands of course
I have to make something very clear. It's the
control operator. It's not Microsoft, it's not
Yezu or Kenwood or the hardware vendor or the
software vendors or any of the software providers
that are the control operator of the station.
The control operator of the station is responsible
for what goes out on the handbands, I think,
in just about every country that we operate.
Um, and we don't control the control operator.
We provide a system for them. So a good control
operator follows the rules. Uh, a bad control
operator sometimes doesn't, uh, we don't have
control over that just like any other mode or
any, or, you know, side ban or anything else.
But people shouldn't expect to be able to just.
Turn on their computer and turn on the radio
and and and just instantly do this There's going
to be more to it than that. Oh, definitely This
is not like PSK 31 because it does the messages
are compressed and the compression while its
public domain is similar to Zipping a file and
so you can't just look at a zip file and figure
what's in it without decompressing it and as
Steve mentioned earlier The ARQ protocol which
Winleak uses, which is similar to what the internet
uses, involves sending packets and then receiving
ACKs or NACs back and then possibly resending
the packets. And the packets have forward air
correction in them as well as the ACK and NAC
retransmission. So while you could certainly
do it, it's by no means a simple task, simply
like turning on a computer and looking at PSK
31 streaming down your screen. but you still
have to have the software to decode PK32 or anything
else other than CW which you copy by air or sideband
voice. Everything has a piece of equipment that
converts it so the human being can understand
it. Okay, well let's move on to some others.
We got a tweet from James KH2SR That says wish
we had an iPhone app for Winlink Well, actually
there is we do we are working with someone in
Florida who is Right now working on an iPhone
app for Winlink. I don't have a status update
on when it possibly product might come out of
that, but there is someone actively engaged in
developing that. Okay. So let's, uh, in the works,
Paul says, uh, on the website here, ICS forms
are universally used by all. Yeah. Okay. By all
agencies. So, okay. All right. And let's see
what else we've got. Uh, by the way, oh, yeah.
We have ICS forms, medical forms, and many amateur
radio forms, radiograms, all kinds of templates
on Winlink Express that look beautiful because
they are done through HTML. then a text file
is sent, I believe, a small file is sent, and
the receiving end has HTML, so they get the beautiful
files that they can print out or send forward
also. If you don't have a beautiful, if you don't
have HTML on the receiving end, then it is a
formatted text message that comes out. But we
have templates for just about all the ICS forms
and forms that our government and amateur services
use. In one link express Very good, and we've
got another one and that's from k6 FCC wants
to know can Can you use when link on DMR? I?
Guess the answer would be no. I'm not sure what
what that exactly means, but I think the answer
would be no Yeah, I don't think you'd have enough
bandwidth and throughput to make it work through
all of that, with all that going on, digital
conversion already going on. So no expert on
that, but that'd just be my guess here. While
we're talking about bandwidth, I know that there's
been some debate over You know the need for for
bandwidth and specified channels on HF and and
it sounds like the the shares thing is kind of
the The answer to some of that that you've got
some some dedicated yes for it. Yes part 97 .221
Established some years ago a subband in 80 40
20 15 meters That provided for automatic operation.
It is very narrow when you look at packed or
with a minus 30 DB a 2 .4 kilohertz signal and
the total amount of space available on 40 meters
is a 5 kilohertz space The SEC is looking very
closely at the Growth of digital communication
and the fact that there is no real space for
higher speed Data transfer operation and I mean
there's 15 kilohertz on the other bands 5 on
40 meters so and none on the the work band so
That is being looked at With the advent of these
new protocols, not having to buy an expensive
modem, coming out on sound cards that are already
existing in radios that the manufacturers are
providing, I think that just like a sideband
did with AM, AM did with CW, it's going to force
the issue. But yes, you're correct. Bandwidth
is very limited. It's a very narrow spectrum
and that's why the government has provided other
options for Real -life emergency communication
Yeah, and you know, there's there's I found out
today there's there's a bit of a you know a debate
over some of that with with causing, you know
interference to other services and other modes
and that kind of thing. And, you know, there's
just only so much spectrum out there. That's
right. That's exactly right. A lot of time, I
mean, you've got to remember on 40 and 20 meters,
you're not just tearing the FCC band, you're
here, United States, you're hearing Canada, you're
hearing Mexico, you're hearing Europe, and they
don't have the restrictions that we do. They
don't go bandwidth by mode. They go bandwidth
they go band plan by bandwidth. So they they
are in They're not exactly they don't follow
the same restrictions that we do under the FCC
ruling and You got to also remember that there's
a lot of other Services out there besides wind
link that utilize these protocols like HF link
BPQ and on and on and and So when you hear something
unless you know exactly what it is and If it's
free in the United States and it's over 500 Hertz
and it's not in the sub bands Then you've got
a control operator that doesn't know the rules
Okay. Well, we are out of time, unfortunately.
I'm sure, as always, we could go on and on. But
I want to thank you both for coming on and filling
us in a little bit on this. And maybe that could
be helpful. Maybe we can get some people over
on shares and get going on some of this stuff.
So thank you for coming on. Well, thank you very
much and we appreciate it and the shares system
is a giant system. It dwarfs what's on amateur
radio and anybody interested in that might want
to just Email me or I'm on the website as a Winnick
administrator. I'm the one you email. Anybody
interested in the SHARES system? SHARES does
not solicit individual hams. SHARES solicits
agencies. So it's good if you have a connection
with your local agency, EMA. I'm going to have
to cut you off. We're out of time. That's a wrap
for this week and next week I invite you back
Thursday night 9 p .m. Eastern Time. John Mills,
KC9 BRX will be here to talk about local and
state skywarn nets and for all of our upcoming
guests just go to HamTalkLive .com. So for now
this is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG saying 7375 and may
the good DX be yours.