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Good evening, everyone. It's time for ham talk
live. It's episode number 107 CW ops with Rob
K6 RB recorded live on Thursday March 22nd 2018.
I'm your host Neil rap WB 9 VPG Thanks for tuning
in to this episode of ham talk live tonight.
We're joined by Rob at Brownstein in K6 RB And
we will take your calls in just a few minutes.
Last week here on the show, John Mills, KC9 BRX
was here to talk about Skywarn Nets. And if you
missed the show, you can listen anytime at HamTalkLive
.com or on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, iHeart Podcasts,
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to catch the podcast version of the show. So
get your CW questions ready to go. After the
interview, you can give us a call. The telephone
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If you'd like to give us a call, you can do that.
Don't do that just now because we won't be able
to answer your call. But later on, that is the
number so you can have that handy. It's 812 -638
-4261. So I'll be back with Rob right after this
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and tell them you heard it on HamTalk Live. Our
guest tonight is Rob Brownstein, K6RB. Rob was
first licensed in 1958 as KN2UMU at age 11 and
after upgrading to general a year later and then
extra class in 1970 he moved to California in
1973. With the move came a new call sign in 1982
to NS6V and then in 1997 K6RB which is his current
call sign and Rob operates a lot of CW splitting
his time between rag chewing and contesting.
He has a modern SO2R single op two radio station
and a vintage station as well. He's a member
of the Northern California contest club, the
first class CW operators club. And tonight we'll
be talking about CW ops, which he's also a member
of. And he is also a mentor advisor and teacher
in the CW Ops Academy. And in 2017, last year
at the Dayton Hamvention, he received the Technical
Achievement Award from the Dayton Amateur Radio
Association. So Rob, thanks for joining us on
HamTalk Live tonight. My pleasure. Well, we want
to talk about CW Ops a little bit. So tell us
about the organization and how it got started
and what the goal is of having a group for CW
operators. Okay, so CW Ops was conceived of around
November 2009 after a bunch of rag -choo -cusos
with me and about 11 other guys. We kind of thought
about a new CW club that had what we consider
to be unique aspects, which I'll describe in
a second. And by January 1, 2010, just a few
months later, we launched. And at the time of
launch, we had 127 members. Today I saw that
we just invited number 1997 to join the club
and that represents 71 countries, so it's taken
off probably a Thousand times more than any of
us ever assumed it would but it's very gratifying
to have been part of it and a founder of the
group now You might say well gee Does Ham Radio
really need another CW club? After all, there's
SKCC and FIS and FOC. What do you need another
CW club? That's a legitimate question to ask.
What we concluded, the 12 of us, was that some
of the clubs really had no standard for what
you had to be able to do to get in. You just
had to sign up and pay your money. And some of
the clubs had very strict standards. But what
was missing was any mentoring program that would
help people achieve those standards. That was
my motivation. And so we started CW Ops for the
express purpose of having a club that was devoted
to CW and CW Arts. But a main facet of the club
was going to be this mentoring program, which
we now call CW Academy. All right. Very good.
And so your goal is to, um, train people to achieve
those, those criteria then, um, as a CW operator.
Correct. And, you know, I was thinking about
it this morning in a way CW ops is like the,
the elephant. with the blind people groping it.
There are some people who, when you say, what
is CW Ops? They go, oh, those are the guys that
do that contest three times a day every Wednesday
at 30 words per minute plus, and take up a big
swath of bandwidth for an hour, and then the
band goes quiet. And that's one aspect. And then
there were people who go, oh, I never heard about
that. But aren't they the guys who have that
free program where they teach Morse code? Oh,
yeah. So I mean, there's different aspects of
the club. But I think the one that is most commendable,
from my perspective anyway, is the CW Academy.
And as you pointed out, Neil, the goal of that
is to help people either learn Morse or improve
their skills. Excuse me, the ultimate goal is
if they're interested in joining the club to
help them get to a point where they meet the
qualifications. So let me tell you what those
are. Being able to send and receive 25 words
a minute. Now you probably remember when the
FCC had incentive licensing and in order to get
the highest class of license, you had to send
and receive 20 words a minute. So we're actually
requiring more than what you required to do the
amateur extra. And the reason is we feel after
much discussion that if you can't copy 25 and
send 25 words a minute, then you really are not
going to be ideally competent to have a long
conversational QSO because much slower than 25
gets cumbersome. And if you go much above it,
then you're going to run into people who can't
copy it. So 25 is kind of a sweet spot. Okay.
Very, very interesting. Well, um, on the website
that you, um, have for CW ops, that's CW OPS.
org. You have a ton of resources. You've got
everything from software to contest information
and the CW Academy is one of the things that
I hear about the most. So tell us about how somebody
could join the Academy and get in there and get
up to that 25 word a minute speed. Okay, so originally
When we first started the club, as I said, in
January 1st, 2010, we had some ideas for what
we wanted to do post launch. Number one was have
a weekly event, which we call CWT. Originally,
it was once a month on a Wednesday, three different
times for an hour each time. That's now grown
to 52 weeks a year. An hour time three times
so a hundred and fifty six events per year which
is by far the most of any kind of contest or
pseudo contest. We also wanted to have an annual
contest that. was a CW only contest and one which
didn't require having multiple towers and yagis
and amplifiers in order to have a respectable
score even possibly win it. And so we created
a thing called CW open which we hold at the first
Saturday of September every year. But CW Academy
was the one that we knew was going to take the
longest to roll out because it really required
a lot of preparation and Originally the idea
was to create a kind of a marriage Brokership
where people that wanted help would sign up and
let us know what bands they can operate what
days and times and people who wanted to help
them could do the same and then we would try
to You know marry them Did not work was a disaster.
I did teach that first semester and I had a small
group of people that I was working with. But
what was interesting, Neil, is that the people
that signed up for that first CW Academy rollout,
we assumed most of the people would be people
who were already CW capable and just wanted to
improve their skills. And what we found was three
quarters of the signups were people who did not
know CW or could not copy it, you know, greater
than 10 words a minute. And so we said, oh boy,
we need to have a beginner's level, not just
an intermediate and advanced level. So we created
three levels. The beginning level takes you from
knowing zero code. at the end of eight weeks
to knowing how to be able to head copy and send
anywhere from 13 to 15 words a minute, eight
weeks. Then the second program, which we call
level two, that first one's called level one,
level two takes you from that point. Anybody
that can copy above 10 words a minute, but less
than say 20 words a minute would go to level
two and level two, gets them to a point where
they can copy head copy conversational qso's
at 18 to 20 words a minute and Contest it over
20 words a minute and then level 3 the advanced
program takes you from that point and our typical
graduate Can contest at up to 30 words a minute
and head copy comfortably? Conversational qso's
at 25 so when you finish level 3 you meet the
qualification to join CW Ops. And I think probably
80 or 90 % of our graduates do so right at that
point. They're invited to join, they get sponsored,
and boom, they're in. And the one thing that
I personally do, and I'm sure other advisors
do as well, is I always tell my level three class,
hey, when you graduate in the next couple of
weeks, I'm gonna ask you to do me a favor. We
have a ton of people signing up for Level 1 and
we don't have enough advisors. Would you consider
advising a Level 1 group? And so it's a self
-perpetuating program. And at the end of 2017,
Jerry AC4BT, who manages the program, estimates
that we trained 3 ,000 hams since 2011. And our
run rate per year is... probably 400, maybe up
to 450, because we do three semesters, two months
at a time, January, February, April, May, September,
October. And to become a CW Academy student,
all you have to do is go to the website, which
you gave the URL at cwops .org, click on the
tab for CW Academy. follow it to the student
area, sign up, submit the sign up sheet, boom,
and you'll hear from Jerry within 24 hours. The
one thing that we are constantly trying to shorten
is the backlog. If you signed up today for April,
May, it's full. In fact, September, October is
full. So if you signed up today, worst case,
you're looking at January, February, but we have
people whose schedules change or their plans
change, who drop out towards the last minute
before the classes are constituted. And so slots
open up. You just never know. But we never have
enough advisors to be able to do it, you know,
on demand. And that's ultimately what we would
love to be able to do. The other thing that we
did this last semester in January and February
was we rolled out a new program called Youth
CW Academy, like Y -O -U -T -H, that is focused
on people between the ages of 11 and 19. They're
taught in age peer groups so that any student,
once this program is fully running, would not
be grouped with anybody more than two years older
or two years younger. for the obvious reason
and so We teach them level one just like we do
with the regular CW Academy but they learn with
kids who have the same kinds of experiences and
knowledge that they have and so they have something
in common and the goal is once they graduate
to get them on the air as soon as possible get
them talking to other young people and ultimately
recreate the environment that existed in the
fifties and sixties when there was a novice band
with a lot of young people, well, communicating
with CW. And then of course we want to give them
the skills and the protocols and the knowledge
to be able to do that competently. No, I'm not
going to get into the whole incentive licensing
argument and the new proposal to change some
of the entry level license or privileges or whatever.
But one of the things that I keep hearing over
and over again is it would be nice if we could
find a way to not be so reliant upon a test that
we would do something with mentoring and Elmering
and bringing people along. But then it's like,
you know, like you said, you've already got a
shortage of advisors to do this. And you've got
a backlog of people waiting to get into this.
But I mean, this is addressing that issue that
you all are providing that training and support
and Elmering that we don't have. I agree with
you. I think that's crucial and we you know,
I can't tell you how many emails I've gotten
since 2011 from people who've signed up for Academy
Who said I've tried five different words ways
to learn CW. None of them work for me I'm gonna
try this one and see what happens and they succeed
and later when I with my groups and the other
advisors pull their groups at the end and say
what worked for you, what didn't work for you,
what would you change, so on and so forth. Invariably,
the thing that makes CW Academy a success is
the human factor. The curriculum and all that
stuff, yeah, that matters. There's lots of great
stuff on the web. You can go to learn CW online,
who one of our members actually did, Fabian Kurtz.
But it's, you know, it requires you to kind of
know what you need to do next. Whereas with this,
you have an advisor who is basically assessing
you every time you meet, which is 16 times over
the course of two months and saying, hey, you
know, you need to work on this a little bit more.
Don't worry about that. You have that down and
so on and so forth. And it's that human factor
that is the critical factor. That's the success
factor. Well, it sounds like an excellent, excellent
program. And again, if anyone's out is out there
that could be an advisor to some of these level
one classes, especially, you know, to get people
started and free up some people to do some of
the other levels, why that would be. a wonderful
thing and a way to mentor more people. And of
course, young people, that's where a lot of my
work is. And so I always encourage that. But
I can't let this go, Rob, because this has been
something that's been kind of particular to me.
Because when I got into ham radio, the class
that I wanted to or that I was going to go take,
I should say. I don't know that I knew that I
wanted to do this. But the class that I was going
to go to with my dad had an age requirement of
13. And I was five. Now, granted, I was the exception
at five. There haven't been, but, you know, maybe
a dozen kids at five years old get into ham radio.
But the age requirement was there for 13 years
old and I came in there and copied code and proved
that I could do it. And then they said, oh, maybe
we better let this kid take the test and give
this a try. And it worked. So you said 11, which
I think is a good spot because you're catching
a lot of those kids that are In the majority,
you know at that younger age But what do you
do for those that are younger? That's a great
question Neil and it came up While I was teaching
the first pilot program of YCWA I got a message
from a fellow who said I have a niece who's eight
years old and She asked me to tell her what the
letters are for her name. Her name was L -A -C
-Y. And so he taught her the letters. And then
she proceeded after she sent her name, she sent
his name, which was Malcolm. And he said, how
did you learn all those other letters? She goes,
I was listening while you were learning in CW
Academy. When he told me that I said look the
reason that we Started at 11 and went to 19 really
had to do with the age peer groups set up that
we had in recognizing practicality that We already
have a shortage of advisors. We're gonna have
an even more critical shortage of advisors So
we have to draw the line somewhere. Let's make
it 11 That's not to say that if things really
take off and we start getting kids that are eight
nine and ten that we wouldn't create yet another
group but the other limitation and i'm sure you
had this when you were five is that even though
we in ham radio morse code we we do a lot of
abbreviating you still have to be able to spell
And typically five -year -olds have a lot of
trouble with that some 11 year olds do so that
that's kind of the other aspect to the to the
age limitation is we picked an age that we felt
had enough capability to be able to do what they
needed to do for head copy skills and You know
the 19 that may be you know pushing the upper
limit because by then a lot of kids are in college,
they've got other interests and distractions,
but we don't know. We're really going to be trying
to find out as we push this out where this sweet
spot is and we may change things down the road.
It's certainly going to be a work in progress,
Neil. Well and and you know like I said, I think
that's a good place to put it Just from the sheer
numbers that I think you know the numbers below
that are not going to be zero, but they're going
to be smaller and with your limitations of You
know the number of instructors and that kind
of thing. I think that's a good a good number
to go for but But yeah, that'll be interesting
to see how many you get, but there could be some
possibilities down the road for that. Well, what
I was going to do with Lacy was teach her myself
one -on -one so that she wouldn't be in a group
with kids who were a lot older than her. for
a variety of reasons having to do with scheduling
on her and it didn't work out for this semester,
but we may do it in September. And I actually
have a group that I'll be starting in a week
or so of three brothers. I think their ages are
12, no, 12, 10 and eight. So there is an eight
year old in that group. It's a sibling. And they
were all going to be learning together. So, you
know, every, every rule was meant to have exceptions
and this one does as well. So it's not hard and
fast, but it's kind of a guideline. Sure. Sure.
Absolutely. And that's what it was at, at that
point. And I realize that that's kind of the
exception. So That's, uh, that's good stuff.
Well, we're up against a break. So let me, uh,
get on with the break and then we'll come back
and talk to Rob. Uh, we can talk about, um, some
of the software, uh, available and contests and
that kind of thing. Uh, but, uh, and I know we've
had a couple of people try to call during the
interview part. So, uh, we'll try to get some
calls in as well. And we'll be back with Rob
right after this word from the national voice
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and Right now it's time for your call. So if
you've been trying to call in now's your chance
You have a question for Rob about CW ops Give
us a call that phone number again is 812 net
ham 1 812 638 4261 Or you can Skype us. We're
HamTalk Live on Skype and also HamTalk Live on
Twitter. And you can get a hold of us that way
as well. And during the commercial break, actually,
Rob and I were talking a little bit more about
things and he mentioned about the speed of the
characters. And Rob, I'm going to go ahead and...
and take a call here and have that on hold, but
just briefly, can you speak to what we were talking
about on the break with the speed of the characters
and spacing? Right. One of the problems that...
all of the young people back in the day in the
late 50s and early 60s had was that they learned
code proportionately. So when you listen to W1AW
code practice at five words a minute, the letters
were sent at five words a minute. We don't do
that. From level one on, we send the letters
at 20 word per minute letter speed. We may add
a little delay between letters. called Fonzwerthing,
but they don't ever hear letters being sent slower
than 20 words a minute, which forces them not
to try to count dits and dots and just to recognize
the sound of a character rather than try to decipher
the dits and dots. Yeah, that's uh, and and you
know it like I said it we're talking to the word
break at age five That's that was it. You know,
that was okay Did dollars a and I write an a
you know, and I knew some some basic words, but
you know that that made it harder to get up to
speed. And so I think that you're definitely
on the right track. Well, we've got a phone call
on the line, so let's go to the phones. Hello,
who is this? Hi, this is Hank. K -E -0 -C -U.
Hi, Hank. Thanks for calling in. Hi, how are
you doing? I'm doing good, Hank. Hey, I've got
a question for you. How do the teachers and the
mentors interact with the student? Is it done
via email, Skype, all on the air, or just how
is that connection made and maintained? That's
a great question, and that was really the critical
piece to the whole CW Academy concept. and uh...
one of the are early guys in the program double
u zero u c e a guy named jack ritter who is now
in as a silent key came up with it and he said
let's use audio video internet and at that time
we were using a program called ubu all of the
all now we use skype group calling but what that
does is it allows you to have a single advisor
with up to five students where we can see and
hear each other, just like we were in a training
room together. And each one of us has a paddle
and a keyer. And so we can send Morse code. And
so what typically happens when we meet, which
is two nights a week, they'll have practiced
something before the meeting. And as soon as
we get through, you know, hey, does anybody have
any questions? No. OK, I'll just say. Based on
what they should have practiced that day. I'll
say John What's this word and I'll send the word
and he'll go. Oh, it's such such great and I'll
go around the group and it quickly assess how
they're doing and Sometimes I'll even do something
where I'll send something have them send it back
to me and then tell me what it is and there's
a psychological reason for doing that that actually
helps them learn faster than if they tell you
what the word is and then try to send it but
That's a whole other discussion. Was that helpful,
Hank? Yeah, so basically you need a code practice
oscillator and a Skype connection on your PC,
is that right? You need a Skype application.
You need a PC that has broadband internet. You
need a paddle. And you need a keyer, not a code
practice oscillator. You need a keyer. So it
could be a standalone keyer like an MFJ Econo
keyer with its little speaker so you can hear
the mic picks it up. Or if you have a radio that
has a built -in keyer and a sidetone, you could
make sure it's not transmitting and just use
the built -in keyer and sidetone. Anything that's
going to be audible enough to be picked up by
the webcam, We'll allow everybody in the group
to hear what you're sending. Okay, good explanation.
Great, thanks for calling in, Hank. Appreciate
it. Good night. Good night. 812 -638 -4261 is
the phone number if you have a question for Rob
about CW Ops or the CW Academy at CW Ops Give
us a call right now. We have a few minutes remaining
812 -638 -4261 Dr. Scott Wright K0MD says thanks
for supporting CW operations so Thanks to Scott
for that. And let's talk a little bit about,
again, the website. We kind of had to take off
a little bit. Let's talk a little bit about the
software that's available and some of the contests
that you offer once people are up to speed. OK,
let's talk about the resources, really, is what
you're talking about. And in the CW Academy area,
If you follow the arrow to student resources,
you'll see a whole bunch of stuff mp3 files Booklets
so on and so forth we have a booklet that says
how to use Skype for CW Academy that walks you
through how you set it up we have a program called
moist trainer, which is for our level one group
and What happened was originally when I first
designed the level one program, we didn't have
a tool. And so there was a program online called
Morse translator. And I actually wrote a note
to the guy who did it, a guy named Steven Phillips
and said, hey, you know, we're using your program,
but I have to tell people what to type in before
they hit play. And he said, send me your curriculum
and I will pre program it. And he did, and he
created a thing called Moist Trainer. And it's
specific to CW Academy Level 1. So that's a program
that anybody can take advantage of. We have booklets
that walk you through what you do in Level 1,
Level 2, and Level 3. Anybody can go to the website,
can download the books, can download the tools
that we have. We're not in this for profit. The
classes are free. The advisors don't get paid.
It's a free program. Our goal is to train the
next generation of CW operators. So if people
want to borrow our stuff and use it, God bless
them. Okay. Let's put the contest on hold for
a second because we've got another call on the
line. So let's go ahead and take the call here.
Welcome to HamTalk Live. Who's this? Hello? Yes.
Hello? Hi. Hi. Good evening. Is this Neil? This
is. Hi, Neil. Good evening to you. This is Carmen.
And my call is K1LKP, Kilo One, Lena, Kilo Papa.
And I know that old rascal Rob from working him
on the radio many times. Yes, indeed. You know,
God bless you, Rob. And you know, Rob, I just
want to say congratulations to you and all the
folks from CW Ops. And you know, on the CW Academy,
you have an excellent mentoring program. I've
been reading the mail on a lot of your, you know,
the Academy QSOs that they have on the band,
and you guys are doing a great job. So have a
job well done. Thank you, Carmen. I appreciate
it, and I hope I see you in a whole bunch of
CWTs. Oh, yeah. You know, Rob, I don't mean to
tie up this conversation, but, good God, you
just mentioned Jack W0UCE. That man was an absolute
humanitarian. For people, for ham radio, he was
a first -class person. He sure was. Yes, and
again, you know, you had mentioned about having
problems getting advisors Don't get discouraged
hang in there. I encourage you to keep up the
great work really Our problem Carmen isn't getting
advisors. It's getting them quickly enough because
the number of people that keep signing up to
do level one is growing like a weed and You know
we had at one point five advisors we have about
35 now But it's you know it doesn't matter the
the number of people signing up just keeps growing
and the the backlog stays the same Well good
for you. It shows that you're doing the right
thing. That's the important thing. Yep. Yes.
God bless you and you know Neil, is Neil here?
Yeah, I am here. Neil, you know, I partake in
those weekly events. They have the CW events
and it's good for somebody my age because it
helps to clear out the cobwebs. Okay, listen,
everybody have a great day and God bless you
for all your hard work. Take care, Carmen. Yeah,
take care, Carmen. Thank you for calling in.
We appreciate it. And yeah, I'm still trying
to get some of those cobwebs cleared out now
too, because that was 42 years ago. Well, Rob,
we've got about a minute and a half left here.
So why don't you run down some of those operating
activities real quick for us. Okay. CWT is the
one that we have every Wednesday. And that means
even if it's Christmas on Wednesday or New Year's
on Wednesday, there's going to be a CWT. And
they're at three different times a day, 1300
Zulu, 1900 Zulu, and 0300 Zulu. They start and
end in one hour's time. The exchange is your
name. And if you're a member, your membership
number. If you're not a member, your state, province,
or country. That's it. very easy, but boy, if
you listen in, you'll find out that those guys
are averaging 30, 30 plus words a minute. And
so it's going to pull you up by the bootstraps.
Now, three times a year after the graduation
of each of the CW Academy groups, we have a commemorative
CWT where the top speed is 20 or less. And boy,
it's amazing how many people come out of the
woodwork to do that one because it's like well
i don't have to work so hard thirty thirty five
so anyway we do that three times a week every
week a hundred fifty six times a year all right
very good well we have just about twenty seconds
left here so uh... any any quick final thoughts
before we take off uh... i appreciate your taking
the time to talk to us and uh... You know, I
hope anybody that's interested in learning Morse
code will get on the website and sign up and
we'll be happy to give you all the help we can.
All right. Sounds good, Rob. And again, that
website is cwops .org cwops .org and a little
sneak peek, a little teaser here for Amateur
Radio Newsline this week. It's coming out on
Friday. I just recorded it and there's a story
about CW and a hamster. So just Just a little
tease there. You'll have to check that out on
on Newsline this week. Well, that is a wrap for
this week's edition of HamTalk Live. Thanks to
my guest, Rob Brownstein, K6RB and everyone out
there in cyberspace for listening and calling
in and invite you back next Thursday night at
9 p .m. Eastern Time when Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA,
will be here to talk about AMSAT satellite operations
and for a list of all of our upcoming and guests,
just go to HamTalkLive .com and click on the
Show Schedule link. So for now, this is Neil
Rapp, WB9VPG, saying 7 -3 -7 -5, and may the
good DX be yours. The end.