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.com. Hey, good evening, everyone. It's time
for HamTalk Live episode number 108. AMSAT satellite
operations recorded live on Thursday, March 29,
2018. I'm your host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. Thanks
for tuning into this episode of HamTalk Live
tonight. We're joined by Drew Glassbrenner, KO4MA.
the AMSAT vice president in charge of operations
and we will take your calls live in just a few
minutes. Last week Rob Brownstein K6RB was here
to talk about CW Ops and if you missed that show
or any other show you can listen anytime at HamTalkLive
.com or you can catch our podcast version and
you can find that on just about any podcast app.
We're on iHeart Podcasts and also on TuneIn and
SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, most of
those. We're also over on YouTube if you want
to play it there. So you can find us very easily.
So get your satellite operations questions ready,
and after we talk to Drew for a little bit, we'll
give you a chance to call and chime in. Let me
go ahead and give you the telephone number. It's
812 -638 -4261. That spells out 812 -net -ham
-1. to make it a little easier for you to remember,
hopefully. You can also call us on Skype. We're
at HamTalk Live on Skype, and we're also at HamTalk
Live on Twitter, so if you can... Tweet us, that
works too. So we'd love to hear from you tonight
and answer some of your questions. But first,
we will talk to Drew and get a little bit of
background and then we'll open it up. So I'll
be back with Drew right after this word from
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This episode of HamTalk Live is brought to you
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the show Coming up in the HamFest schedule, April
6th and 7th, they'll be in Belton, Texas. On
April 7th, Stoughton, Wisconsin. April 14th,
Mobile, Alabama. April 21st, Gainesville, Florida.
April 28th, Calhoun, Georgia. And of course,
in May, they'll be at the Dayton Hamvention.
But you don't have to wait for a HamFest. You
can give them a call. the number 920 -435 -2973
or visit them online at PL -259 .com Tell them
you heard it on HamTalk Live. Our guest tonight,
Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA, is the Vice President
for Operations and a board member of AMSAT, the
United States Amateur Radio Satellite Corporation.
Drew is a geologist in the greater Tampa, Florida
area, who is now working for his own company,
Karst evaluations, where he studies Karst formations
and investigates sinkholes. And, uh, Drew works
a lot of FT eight in addition to all of the satellites
and, uh, Drew, welcome to the show. Thanks, Neil.
Appreciate you having me on this evening. And
one thing that I left out of the bio in our conversation
before the show, your next satellite, your portable
satellite operation is going to be from the top
of the Skyway Bridge. Is that correct? Not me.
If you don't know, the Skyway Bridge is this
humongous bridge through part of the bay in Tampa.
It's a little, little scary. It's pretty tall
and right over the bay and no land in sight for
a little while. That's about as close as I get
to a roller coaster. In my younger days I used
to try to operate Simplex driving over it. Now
it's eyes forward and ten and two on the steering
wheel. Well, we've had some shows about satellites
here recently and I've been trying to work some
satellites recently, both myself, by myself and
with the kids at the school where I teach and
just really getting started. And we had Sean
KX9X on the show to kind of talk about how to
get started. And then we had Jerry. Uh, Jerry
Buxton in zero J Y to talk about all the engineering
and building everything. And he said, you gotta
have drew on and continue and pick up where he
left off, uh, about how the satellites are used
and maintained and all the operations stuff.
So, uh, tell us what you do and your team and
how you keep these satellites up and running
for all of us to play with. Sure. Well, um, First
thing, we've got a lot more satellites to take
care of these days. Right now, the operations
team is responsible for Oscar 7, Falcon Sat -3,
which is an Air Force Academy satellite that
they let us use, and then the three Fox satellites,
AO -85, 91, and 92. So each of those are different
and require different things to be done to keep
them going. In the case of AO7, we keep commandability
available, but we basically let it operate on
its own since it just runs off the solar panels
now. AO7 was launched in 1974. It's one month
younger than I am, so it's amazing that it's
still operating at all. So we kind of have a
hands -off approach there. keep an eye on the
way the orbit changes and when it might be having
problems and try to get word out to people to
keep the power low and especially when it's in
a period of time when the solar illumination
isn't real good and to keep it from resetting
when people use too much power. Falcon Sat -3
is a store and forward packet satellite, 9600
baud BBS in the sky. And it occasionally will
crash. It's only done it once with us so far.
So then we have to, some of the software is reloaded
from onboard the satellite automatically. But
then there's all the updated software in several
years that it's been in orbit that has been updated.
And then we have to reload that. So that takes
a couple of days to get... To get all that loaded
and checked out and working and hopefully it
works when we flip the big switch the first time
on it If not, we start back over from the beginning
and do again And then there's some file maintenance
on board there Where if a file gets corrupted
or is too big or something we can go in and take
care of that So that's and we also always have
to watch the power budgets the orbit the amount
of time the satellite is illuminated per orbit
changes and sometimes it gets a little close
and you know we may in the future have to shut
it off for a little while to keep the batteries
in good shape. So then the three Fox satellites
8085, 91 and 92 each are a little different and
The nice thing is that Jerry and his team did
a really nice job. Those satellites are very
self -sufficient, I guess would be the word,
autonomous. They don't need a whole lot of intervention.
AO -85, we basically don't have to do anything
with it. It just runs and runs. We don't have
anything that needs to be commanded in the experiments.
The experiment runs all the time. that one so
it doesn't really need much intervention we just
check up on it make sure it's it's still working
as much the same way the experiment doesn't require
us to go into high -speed data mode or anything
like that so we just keep an eye on it keep an
eye on the Eclipse links watch reports keep an
eye on the battery voltages via telemetry we
have to go into the database and we have a great
volunteer, WA4SCA. Alan takes care of all that.
Anytime a satellite has a radiation upset, any
of the three FOX satellites, we have to go into
our database. It collects all of our telemetry
and collates it in one place and set that time
that it happened. There's an internal FOC on
all the satellites. And when the satellite resets,
it goes back to zero. And we just have to go
in and say, OK, zero is this time and date. So
we can keep track of all of that. AO -92, the
newest of the Fox satellites, has a fair amount
of intervention and mode changes that require
somebody to do something. We've got the option
on AO92 to switch from the UHF uplink to a 1
.2 GHz uplink. That has to be done manually and
we have to schedule, I have to look ahead. As
a matter of fact, earlier before the show, I
made a note that I need to do that tomorrow.
We have to look at passes and say, okay, at this
pass. This command station is going to send the
command to switch the satellite from a 435 uplink
to a 1 .2 gig uplink. And then that runs for
24 hours and then switches back to the UHF uplink
on its own. Another interesting thing with AO92,
have a camera on board. It's an experiment that
was provided by Bob McGuire's team at Virginia
Tech. And it's just a small low -resolution camera.
And we can take pictures in the northern hemisphere
as long as it passes by one of our ground stations.
And then those are transmitted down in a high
-speed data stream. And anyone that's running
FOX to LEM, You can switch that to copy high
speed or leave it on auto where it copies the
picture data. And that data is sent over the
internet to the central server. And then those
pictures are assembled. You have a good station.
You can see pictures on your own Fox2Lens screen.
But if I miss a frame and somebody in Indiana
picks that frame up, Well, it stitches it all
together, so you get pictures on the server.
So that has to be scheduled and turned on. And
we put notices out on Twitter and on the AMSAT
web page. There's a satellite schedules page.
We also publish it in the AMSAT news service
as long as I make the deadline on Saturday. And
we try to put it out on the MSTB bulletin board
too. So we've got four or five different places
where, where there was a mode switches or, or
scheduled mode switches show up. Yeah. And that
was one of the things that I wanted to ask you
about was now that you've got this on AO 92 where
you can switch, uh, for the L band at 1 .2 gigahertz
or the, um, um, V band on 430. That's kind of
a new thing. And you post that some places, but
you know, the other day I was listening and I
heard, you know, oh, well, you know, the reason
you can't get in is because it's on 1 .2 gigahertz.
What's your advice for people to know which band
it's on. There's not an indicator over the air,
so you need to check that on the AMSAT website
and Twitter and that kind of thing. What do you
suggest? Well, a lot of times you'll hear the
operators will say that they're on L -band if
it's Sunday afternoon and it's not very busy.
That's a good indicator. It's an L band. There's
not as many users on that band. Lately, actually
since we, a week or two after we started running
the L mode, I've been trying to contain it to
Sundays. Now sometimes we, you know, us command
stations have lives too. So we, sometimes we
switch it. to UTC Saturday night local. And sometimes
it doesn't happen until the following morning
on Sunday morning, just depending on command
station availability. But usually it's on Sunday.
And again, we put it out, if you follow AMSAT,
at AMSAT on Twitter, we put it there. There is
a schedule page on the AMSAT webpage. that I
try to update that or I update that every weekend
before we make any changes for the following
week. It's usually in ANS. It's AMSAT News Service,
which comes out every weekend. It's published
in the AMSAT BB email list. And if you're running
Fox Telem, it'll actually, you can look on the
telemetry program and it'll tell you that it's
in the L -band uplink mode. So lots of different
places to look. Oh, and one other place, we have
a status page where users can go in and say,
hey, I heard this satellite, and it was in this
mode. So you can go to that. If you go to amsat
.org, it's satellite status, and it will take
you to that. You can check that, and it will
tell you. So lots of different places to find
out, but it's generally on a Sunday. okay very
good any any reason for the switches other than
to just try different band and and get you know
and see how it does with that or is there more
to it well there's no requirement to switch it
the L band uplink was something that we came
up with as a means to promote activity on some
of these higher bands. 1 .2 GHz doesn't get a
whole lot of use and there's a lot of encroachment
onto that band by other services. We're secondary
or tertiary there. Some European operators have
already lost the band due to it being shared
with their version of GPS. So it's kind of a
use it or lose it thing. and one day a week you
can get on L -band and do something a little
different. The requirements for the uplink are
a lot lower than we expected them to be. The
L -band uplink uses the same antenna as the UHF
uplink, so it's not an ideal antenna, but it
seems to work really well and the receiver is
very sensitive. And there's some AFC action on
there. So you don't have to be exactly on frequency.
And we've had guys get in with 1 watt HTs and
whip antennas. That's kind of a rarity. But there's
a lot of operators that are using short Yagis,
5, 10, 12 element Yagis with 1 watt HTs and making
the upload. So it's a good way to experiment
and keep some of our higher bands active. And
if you've got something for 1 .2 gigahertz available.
It's a lot easier to get in on those days too.
Okay, very good. Well, last thing here before
we take a break. What are some of your biggest
challenges in keeping all these things usable?
I would say that our challenges Are not so much
keeping them usable. It's working or getting
word out and working around Schedules individual
schedules It's difficult sometimes to be to be
there when you need to make a mode change or
something like that I'm looking forward to some
of the future satellites Being capable of doing
some pre -scheduled mode changes if we need to.
We had that back with AO51 towards the end of
its life, where I could upload a scheduled mode
change and tell it what time to execute. And
that was real nice. But we're learning how to
do things in smaller packages and with less with
the CubeSats. And I think engineering and Uh,
my operations team, both have really learned
a lot and, uh, uh, the next round of satellites
with golf are going to be even better. All right.
Very good. Well, um, we look forward to that
and we can talk a little bit about, um, what
is coming up in the future here, uh, after the
break and, um, uh, Kind of sprung this on on
drew today that he didn't realize that he was
on the on the show right before April Fool's
Day and so he gets the the honor and privilege
of being on when When our new sponsor appears
and so We have a new sponsor tonight and we usually
do right before April Fool's Day so we'll hear
from them and we'll be back with Drew and we'll
take your calls and your questions. We've already
got some tweets going so we'll get those in and
talk a little bit about AMSAT and satellites
right after this word from QRM Labs right here
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baby. You're listening to Ham Talk Live with
Neil Rapp. Join the conversation. Call us on
voice with Skype at Ham Talk Live or give us
a call at 812 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812 -638 -4261.
Now, here's more Ham Talk Live. HamTalk Live
is on the air every Thursday night at 9 p .m.
Eastern Time right here at HamTalkLive .com and
be sure to check us out on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram. We post some stuff there, links
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a few fun things in between. So check us out
there. Just look for HamTalk Live. Well, now
it's time for your questions and comments. It's
time to take some calls. If you have a question
for Drew, give us a call. The phone number is
812 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812 -638 -4261. Or you
can Skype us at HamTalk Live or tweet us at HamTalk
Live. And we do already have one tweet here.
From Bob McGuire n4hy said that a07 was launched
two years after he graduated from high school
and We love the camera on Fox and and and drew
I remember It still etched in my mind the front
page of Q Street With the picture of a07 before
it was launched. I was Eight years old And it
just amazes me that this thing is back Yeah,
it's it's really a quite an amazing story and
it just it just falls into You know, there's
only a few Amsat spacecraft that could do what
it did because of the way it was designed. There's
there's no no computer no CPU no IHU in AO7,
it's all logic, you know, straight -wired logic.
And any other satellite, most other satellites
past that, once AMSAT started putting computers
into control things, you wouldn't even have that
opportunity. There's a few that have been revived
a little bit long after the fact, but that's
amazing. I guess I should tell the story real
quick. In the early 80s, the batteries on AO7
failed. And like most NICADs, when they failed,
they failed as a short. So the satellite quit
working because all of the power that was generated
by the solar arrays was shunning right to the
batteries and to a dead short. Early 2003 I think
it was forgive me if I'm a year or two off here
And I think it was G3 IOR Posted that he had
heard a CW ID and something that repeated hi
-hi, which was a oh seven So we figured out that
it evidently one of the batteries had opened
up and Now it was running off solar panels because
that short wasn't there And it is really funny
because the downlink for the beacon on AO7 was
the same as the uplink for another satellite
called UO14 that had an FM repeater on it. And
we had been hearing CW interference intermittently
through UO14 for months and hadn't figured it
out because it's, you know, CW to FM is hard
to copy through users and things like that. So
really quite amazing that after all that time
She still responds to commands We tend to take
a hands -off approach with it it When it's continuously
illuminated when when there's no eclipses in
the orbit the 24 -hour timer works and it switches
from mode a to mode B every 24 hours when it's
in When there's an eclipse, it basically resets
when it goes into eclipse. So it tends to come
up in the mode B. Now, sometimes either due to
poor illumination when the sun's shining on the
end of the satellite where there's no solar arrays,
or because a user puts too much power up to it.
Generally, that happens on CW because of the
100 % duty cycle nature of CW. the satellite
will reset and when it resets, it usually goes
to mode A or to a beacon only mode. So if you're
active on AO7 or you want to try AO7, five watts
is more than enough and to just about any sort
of gain antenna. So please be careful with her.
She's old and we'd like to keep her around for
a little bit longer. All right, very good. Well
if you have a question or a comment give us a
call eight one two six three eight four two six
one eight one two net ham one or We're at ham
talk live on Skype and Twitter. So give us a
shout and we'll get those questions answered
hopefully. And again, if you have comments too,
that's just fine. We'd love to hear from you.
We were talking a little bit about AO85 and perusing
Twitter and trying to learn about some of the
stuff. I've seen some people commenting that
AO85 has some problems going on right now. And
so can you tell us what's going on with that
on AO85? Sure, there's two different issues with
AO -85. One of them has been there since launch.
The antenna, receive antenna for AO -85 was damaged
at the last minute and the repair had to take
place or we weren't going to make the launch.
So the repair was not perfect and detuned the
antenna. And as a result of that, AO85 is a little
hard of hearing. It takes a pretty good signal
to get into it. That being said, there's no reason
with some skill that you can't use 5 watts and
an arrow on AO85, especially on higher passives.
Lots of people doing that. It just takes a little
finesse with the polarity and a little experience.
So that's the issue that's been there since launch.
There's another, it's not really an issue, it's
doing what it's designed to do. AO85 is going
into safe mode at the end of eclipses here in
the last month or so. The orbit on AO85 changes,
the orbit doesn't change, but the illumination
period of the orbit. changes quite rapidly and
sometimes you know some months it's in Sun for
most of the orbit and that's great because we
make a lot of power and we can run the repeater
runs constantly and everything's good. It gets
a little warm and it spins up quite a bit but
that's all good we can deal with that. We're
just coming out of a period where the eclipses
were rather long. I think they were 33 or 35
minutes and AO85 has a protection system built
into it that when the battery gets down to a
certain level, it will shut the repeater off
and go into an auto safe mode where it just makes
an announcement every two minutes. When it comes
out of eclipse and the battery voltage comes
back up, It puts itself back into the normal
mode where the repeater is functional and we
just move on down the road. That's important
because we're still using NICAD batteries. The
NICADs will last a lot longer than some of the
other types of batteries that you can use in
spacecraft, but we have to keep them from over
discharging so they don't feel short like AO7
did back in the 80s. So when it gets to be a
problem where it's not usable at any point or
at some point greater than now, we can shut that
protection off. But there's no reason to worry
about it right now. If you're working it early
in the morning, or late at night and it's just
coming out of eclipse or about to come out of
eclipse and you hear it say in safe mode wait
till it hits till the footprint hits where the
sun's shining on the earth and um it'll be back
up right away all right good information there
and if you have a question give us a call 812
-638 -4261 812 net ham one or skype us or tweet
us we're at ham talk live Let me flip over here
and make sure we didn't miss anybody. So let's
talk a little bit about what's coming ahead.
Jerry told us a little bit about it when he was
on the show that we're looking at maybe some
geosynchronous satellites coming up. So what
can you tell us about that? Well, that's in the
works. We've got an agreement with Virginia Tech
that they've proposed a geosynchronous payload
on a satellite, not the entire satellite. They
would just have a small payload on it. And if
that works out, AMSAT will take care of the ground
end of things as well as the operations. Project
has hit some snags. We're unsure of. When if
and when the primary payload will go the main
satellite so it's kind of on a back burner and
at the same time we're investigating other opportunities
to fly some sort of high orbit payload. You know,
we're always we've got multiple irons in the
fire. We had a. an entry into a contest that
NASA was holding for a large CubeSat to go to
the moon on the launch of the SLS. That didn't
work out, but we're taking a lot of the technology
from that and applying it to golf. Golf is our
next project that we'll be working on. And that'll
start off with Golf T, which will be a kind of
a test bed for a lot of these different technologies,
including five gigahertz uplink, 10 gigahertz
downlink, which we're calling five and dime.
It'll also have a VU two meter up, 70 centimeter
down transponder on it. And we're looking at
doing lots of other things that we need to fly
to higher orbits like attitude control, deployable
solar panels to generate more power. And we're
also looking at things like how to meet orbital
debris requirements. The FCC says that your satellite
must either be re -entered or in a disposal orbit.
within 25 years of the end of your mission. So
right now as it is with the technology that AMSAT
is comfortable with, we couldn't launch to like
an AO7 orbit because that's like a thousand year
orbit. It would take a long time for that to
decay and as much as we'd like to think that
our satellite might last that long electrically,
it probably won't. So that's why you see a lot
of the newer satellites going to lower orbits
is to meet that orbital three requirement. So
we want to go higher with golf. So with Golf
T, we'll test some of the technologies that we
need to operate at those higher orbits and also
to make sure that we can get out of those higher
orbits at the end of the mission so I don't get
in trouble with the FCC. That's a that's a good
thing now apparently I I guess I Need to apologize
There's a couple things on Twitter just came
up ke8f ZT says that it was the first time he
heard himself on a o 92 by himself and Robert
ke4al says that's because everyone was listening
to Drew glass printer on ham talk live so So
if you want to work a o 92 now that was your
chance Eric buddinger into koj wrote in and says
what's the easiest satellite to work with a simple
handheld and Can you suggest a good guide or
primer to teach a youngster like my young daughters?
How satellites work and how we can work them?
So it's really easy to hear any of the Fox satellites
with a handheld radio even with the stock antenna
If you pick a good high pass with the stock antenna
open the squelch up where you hear the background
noise before the pass and Be sure to move it
around During the pass so you can line your HD
antenna up with the antenna on the satellite
It's easy to hear them. You can hear the Fox
satellites, bits and pieces of them, even in
a mobile situation. I have them set up in a Scanna
in my truck, and going down the road at 65 miles
an hour, when one of them comes up, it'll stop
on it a lot of times. Hearing it's the easy part
with those satellites, you want to be able to
hear it. large amount of the pass so that you're
not you know cutting in and out and it's really
busy so having a good receive system is important
so as a demonstration you can listen to it on
a simple HT the next step I would recommend if
you go to the AMSAT website and go to the store
we have a book called getting started with the
amateur satellites And that is, I think it's
like 180 pages. We update it every year right
before Dayton. It's kept current. And it is an
excellent primer on all things satellite. If
you read that book, you will be ready to get
on the air and make contacts. The next step would
be to get a little bit better of an antenna than
that rubber duck or quarter wave whip. And there's
lots of plans. on our website and lots of other
websites. If you go to amsat .org and click satellite
info and then go down that menu column to station
and operating hints. There's lots of antenna
construction guides in there. Some of my favorites
are the WA5 BJB Cheap Yagi and the IOIO antenna.
Both of those are excellent antennas to pair
with a handheld. You can also buy something like
an Aero antenna, a commercial dual band antenna
designed for handheld satellite use. Those are
available through the AMSAT store. There's another
antenna that a lot of people use called the ELK.
We'll have those at Dayton at the AMSAT booth.
ELK's a big supporter of AMSAT. So there's lots
of different ways you can get that antenna to
give you a little bit of extra gain to make the
contact And then we provide a past prediction
service on the website You can go and see when
the satellites going to be overhead Get the frequencies
out of the book or off the website and and you're
ready to go now one thing One we're gonna have
to hurry Drew. Okay It's fine to try out with
whatever HT you've got, if it's a dual bander.
We appreciate if people can work full duplex,
two HTs or one full duplex HT, where they can
hear themselves coming down. That keeps the log
jams from happening. All right, very good. Well,
we are out of time. So Thanks Drew for coming
on the show and thanks to everybody out there
for listening and Next Thursday night at 9 p
.m. We're going to start our Dayton Hamvention
preview and the first one is norm wa for Zed
And he's going to talk about four days in May
sponsored by the QRP Amateur Radio Club International
and their Build -A -Thon. So tune in for that
at HamTalkLive .com. This is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG,
saying 7375, and may the good DX be yours.