WEBVTT 00:00:10.570 --> 00:00:13.310 Thanks for tuning in. Hamtalk Live will be on 00:00:13.310 --> 00:00:31.250 the air shortly. Please stand by. Thanks for 00:00:31.250 --> 00:00:33.990 tuning in. Hamtalk Live will be on the air shortly. 00:00:34.289 --> 00:00:39.119 Please stand by. This episode of HamTalk Live 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:42.740 is brought to you by Tower Electronics. For connectors, 00:00:43.140 --> 00:00:48.579 cables, and more, call 920 -435 -2973 or visit 00:00:48.579 --> 00:00:54.439 pl -259 .com. And by ICOM, heard it, worked it, 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:59.679 logged it. Visit www .icomamerica .com slash 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:03.520 amateur for more information about ICOM radios. 00:01:33.099 --> 00:01:35.719 Good evening, everyone. It's time for HamTalk 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:42.299 Live, episode number 129. What's up with? Please 00:01:42.299 --> 00:01:47.739 copy. Recorded live on Thursday, August 23rd, 00:01:47.739 --> 00:01:51.840 2018. I'm your host, Neil Rapp, WB9 VPG. Thanks 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:55.819 for tuning into this episode of HamTalk Live. 00:01:55.939 --> 00:02:00.140 Tonight we're joined by Ward Silver in Zero AX. 00:02:00.329 --> 00:02:03.109 and we'll take your calls live in just a few 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:07.150 minutes. Last week on the show, Val Hotsfeld, 00:02:07.250 --> 00:02:10.090 NV9L, was here to talk about computer logging 00:02:10.090 --> 00:02:12.909 options. And if you missed that, you can listen 00:02:12.909 --> 00:02:16.819 anytime at HamTalkLive .com. or on your favorite 00:02:16.819 --> 00:02:21.960 podcast app or on YouTube. So get your questions 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:25.360 ready to go about some of the things that we 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:28.719 do that may or may not be efficient. We're going 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:33.039 to talk about those a little bit and see. Maybe 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:34.900 there's some some things that we're not aware 00:02:34.900 --> 00:02:37.960 of so we're gonna Take a look at that and after 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:40.319 the interview you can give us a call that phone 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:43.379 number is eight one two net ham one That's eight 00:02:43.379 --> 00:02:47.919 one two six three eight four two six one or you 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:50.680 can Skype us at ham talk live. You can also tweet 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:53.939 us We're at ham talk live on Twitter and I'll 00:02:53.939 --> 00:02:56.939 be back with Ward right after this word from 00:02:56.939 --> 00:03:00.180 tower electronics right here on ham talk live 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:06.680 in the PL -259s? Anywhere? No, I haven't. Come 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:12.039 on, kids. Let's go. There's just one place to 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.280 go for all of your connector needs. Tower electronics. 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:19.759 Tower electronics. 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Tower Electronics. 00:04:01.490 --> 00:04:05.889 Tower Electronics. Hi, I'm Scott Cole, KB9 AMM, 00:04:06.110 --> 00:04:08.969 president of Tower Electronics. I like the company 00:04:08.969 --> 00:04:11.509 so much that I bought it. Tower Electronics, 00:04:11.770 --> 00:04:15.069 coming to a hand fest near you or online at PL 00:04:15.069 --> 00:04:18.930 -259 .com. And we're in the yellow pages under 00:04:18.930 --> 00:04:22.230 amateur radio connectors. My, wherever did you 00:04:22.230 --> 00:04:26.110 get that lovely PL -259? Tower Electronics, PL 00:04:26.110 --> 00:04:33.019 -259 .com. Or call 920 -435 -2973. Do we sell 00:04:33.019 --> 00:04:36.519 PL259 connectors? What's that call sign again? 00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:42.160 WB9VPG. That's right, Delium 9 -Bainte Pterodactyl 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:45.980 Nat, right? You are listening to HamTalk Live 00:04:45.980 --> 00:05:02.620 with Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. Good to see Scott and 00:05:02.620 --> 00:05:05.600 Jill down at Huntsville at the Hamfest there 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:09.740 this last weekend and they will be at Shelby, 00:05:10.060 --> 00:05:13.120 North Carolina coming up on August 31st through 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:16.360 September the 2nd. Findlay, Ohio on September 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:20.579 9th and Peoria, Illinois the Superfest at the 00:05:20.579 --> 00:05:24.259 15th and 16th of September or you can visit them 00:05:24.259 --> 00:05:28.740 online anytime at PL -259 .com and thanks to 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:32.759 them for sponsoring the show once again tonight 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:36.500 and our guest tonight is None other than Ward 00:05:36.500 --> 00:05:40.839 Silver, N0AX, first licensed at age 16 in 1972 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:43.600 and worked professionally in the broadcasting 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:47.199 and product development engineering fields. Ward 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:49.720 is an avid contester and DXer and was one of 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:52.899 the founders of the World Radio Sports Team Championships. 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.120 He is currently the president of the YASME Foundation 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.699 and he is the lead editor of the ARRL Handbook 00:05:59.699 --> 00:06:02.779 and Antenna Book. He's authored many others such 00:06:02.779 --> 00:06:06.790 as ARRL license guides, Ham radio for dummies 00:06:06.790 --> 00:06:09.689 now in its third edition and a book on station 00:06:09.689 --> 00:06:13.069 grounding is one of his more recent ones and 00:06:13.069 --> 00:06:17.350 many many articles he was the 2008 Dayton amateur 00:06:17.350 --> 00:06:21.269 of the year and in 2015 was inducted into the 00:06:21.269 --> 00:06:25.370 CQ contest Hall of Fame and he's a long -time 00:06:25.370 --> 00:06:29.769 instructor at the Dayton Contest University which 00:06:29.769 --> 00:06:32.490 is one of the reasons he's with us tonight so 00:06:32.490 --> 00:06:36.050 Ward welcome back Well, thanks, Neil. Glad to 00:06:36.050 --> 00:06:41.149 be back. Yeah. I ran into this conversation right 00:06:41.149 --> 00:06:45.750 after field day and I thought, you know, maybe 00:06:45.750 --> 00:06:50.829 this would be a good topic to do. And, and I 00:06:50.829 --> 00:06:54.350 walked in on actually a couple of very similar 00:06:54.350 --> 00:06:56.670 conversations, the same thing, same kind of thing. 00:06:56.850 --> 00:07:01.370 And it was basically. If I hear one more person 00:07:01.370 --> 00:07:05.250 say, please copy. I'm going to throw this radio 00:07:05.250 --> 00:07:10.129 across the field." And there were so many different 00:07:10.129 --> 00:07:12.269 reactions. Some people didn't understand why 00:07:12.269 --> 00:07:15.290 the op was frustrated, why he would care if somebody 00:07:15.290 --> 00:07:18.389 said, please copy. Others were saying, I can't 00:07:18.389 --> 00:07:20.689 believe he's, you know, he's that way because 00:07:20.689 --> 00:07:23.610 it's, it's courteous to say, please copy. And 00:07:23.610 --> 00:07:26.569 so, you know, we should be saying, please copy. 00:07:26.589 --> 00:07:28.970 And then another one said he didn't understand 00:07:28.970 --> 00:07:31.230 why it was offensive. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, 00:07:31.230 --> 00:07:34.829 whoa, whoa, whoa, hold. Nobody said it was offensive 00:07:34.829 --> 00:07:39.009 and so I decided maybe we need to talk about 00:07:39.009 --> 00:07:42.209 please copy and some other fillers that people 00:07:42.209 --> 00:07:47.709 often say and when and if they are appropriate 00:07:47.709 --> 00:07:51.350 and maybe it's you know, but Sometimes it would 00:07:51.350 --> 00:07:54.670 be and other times, you know, when time is more 00:07:54.670 --> 00:07:58.129 valuable, maybe it wouldn't be. So, um, you know, 00:07:58.129 --> 00:08:00.170 I was talking to Val before the show last week. 00:08:00.170 --> 00:08:02.910 She commented that she kind of went around and, 00:08:02.910 --> 00:08:06.129 and asked some people and people didn't understand 00:08:06.129 --> 00:08:10.209 why somebody would be irritated about, please 00:08:10.209 --> 00:08:13.170 copy. And so I thought, well, you know, maybe 00:08:13.170 --> 00:08:16.589 we can talk about it a little bit and, and see 00:08:16.589 --> 00:08:21.889 why that would take place at least and and I 00:08:21.889 --> 00:08:25.250 didn't think about it for a long time my contesting 00:08:25.250 --> 00:08:27.990 experiences started like a lot of people at field 00:08:27.990 --> 00:08:31.149 day and I heard it and that's what I did and 00:08:31.149 --> 00:08:34.070 I thought I was being courteous and and I've 00:08:34.070 --> 00:08:38.850 done that for I did that I should say for over 00:08:38.850 --> 00:08:43.509 40 years and then I went to contest university 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.450 and I heard speakers like like yourself that 00:08:48.789 --> 00:08:53.289 We're saying, Oh, please copy. You know that 00:08:53.289 --> 00:08:58.409 if you're looking for a way to raise your scores, 00:08:59.009 --> 00:09:02.409 you need to make more contacts per hour. And 00:09:02.409 --> 00:09:04.929 so when you, you say these things that, that 00:09:04.929 --> 00:09:08.669 cuts into that. So, um, one of my goals this 00:09:08.669 --> 00:09:12.450 year was to not say, please copy during field 00:09:12.450 --> 00:09:15.649 day. And I caught myself doing it twice. Oh, 00:09:15.690 --> 00:09:19.620 it's a hard. It's a hard habit to break, isn't 00:09:19.620 --> 00:09:22.840 it? It is. It is. I caught myself doing it and 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.000 I got mad at myself because I did it because 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:28.379 I'm trying to break that habit. So I wanted you 00:09:28.379 --> 00:09:31.840 to come on as a resident contest university instructor 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.019 and talk about it so that people understand, 00:09:35.259 --> 00:09:40.259 you know, are these people just, you know, old 00:09:40.259 --> 00:09:45.309 guys saying, get off my lawn. Yeah. Get off my 00:09:45.309 --> 00:09:51.230 frequency, right? Well, you know, let me ask 00:09:51.230 --> 00:09:56.429 you this. If you were going to operate in a contest, 00:09:57.590 --> 00:09:59.830 and let's say you were going to make 500 contacts 00:09:59.830 --> 00:10:03.509 during a contest, and I made you stop at the 00:10:03.509 --> 00:10:07.809 beginning and say, please copy 500 times before 00:10:07.809 --> 00:10:11.360 you could start operating, you might... You might 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.179 go, well, gee, why am I wasting all this time? 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:17.419 And it doesn't sound like a lot of time, but 00:10:17.419 --> 00:10:22.899 over a long time, it does build up. And I think 00:10:22.899 --> 00:10:26.759 the real question here really isn't about please 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:30.740 copy specifically. It's about the difference 00:10:30.740 --> 00:10:34.620 between being courteous and being effective, 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:37.740 and when it's important to be efficient and when 00:10:37.740 --> 00:10:41.049 it's OK to be conversational. Sometimes it matters. 00:10:41.350 --> 00:10:45.490 I've been in public service, I guess, almost 00:10:45.490 --> 00:10:51.730 my entire ham career, and extra verbiage and 00:10:51.730 --> 00:10:56.230 jargon and whatnot in a net, particularly under 00:10:56.230 --> 00:10:59.870 emergency conditions, or if the net is crowded 00:10:59.870 --> 00:11:01.730 like you're doing a big parade or something. 00:11:02.750 --> 00:11:07.299 It's important to be efficient. I think the thing 00:11:07.299 --> 00:11:11.340 is we're all trying to be effective communicators 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:18.360 here, and Curtius is effective, not necessarily 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.019 saying extra things like we would in a face -to 00:11:22.019 --> 00:11:27.360 -face conversation. I've listened to big weather 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:29.960 nets and stuff like that, and the net control 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:32.899 was trying to be real nice, but the net control 00:11:32.899 --> 00:11:37.309 would start Well, now I'd like to call, and it 00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:41.809 just ate up many, many, many seconds. And if 00:11:41.809 --> 00:11:43.830 the tornado's closing in from the southwest, 00:11:44.009 --> 00:11:47.789 you don't have many, many, many seconds. So radio 00:11:47.789 --> 00:11:51.330 discipline under these conditions is important, 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:54.350 and that's why we have contests, supposedly for 00:11:54.350 --> 00:11:59.190 training. Riley Hollingsworth, the FCC wireless 00:11:59.190 --> 00:12:03.440 bureau leader. mentioned this more than once, 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:06.940 it's that we need to be more effective in the 00:12:06.940 --> 00:12:11.240 way that we transferred information. So it's 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:13.940 not so much that it's offensive or, you know, 00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:17.340 an aggravating thing in and of itself. If somebody 00:12:17.340 --> 00:12:20.139 says, please copy once, that's not a big deal. 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:25.100 But it's bad practice when you're in a time -limited 00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:29.460 situation. And so we need to Look at our own 00:12:29.460 --> 00:12:31.879 practices and I have my own little things that 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:36.659 I I say sometimes that I catch myself Going up 00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:40.159 your you don't need that so we need to look at 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:44.360 our practices and Please copy is one of the things 00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:49.019 that we could start by Taking out of our conversation 00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:53.740 when we are in a contest or a net or any other 00:12:53.740 --> 00:12:56.919 things Neil back in the day when you started 00:12:57.080 --> 00:13:01.360 Saying please copy a field day Did anybody tell 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:04.000 you to say that was how did that get started? 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:10.200 I just kind of emulated what the good Contesters 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:15.100 were doing it in the club So I'd sat down watched 00:13:15.100 --> 00:13:18.240 what they did listen to what they did and then 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:21.039 that's that's what I started doing and then I 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:25.049 started hearing it on the air, so I I, you know, 00:13:25.129 --> 00:13:27.809 I started doing that. Well, well, please copy 00:13:27.809 --> 00:13:31.129 my two alpha Indiana, you know, and, and, you 00:13:31.129 --> 00:13:35.769 know, and, and, and you are, you know, you, you 00:13:35.769 --> 00:13:37.549 are, and that would always confuse me because 00:13:37.549 --> 00:13:39.730 I'm like, wait a minute, you are, but it's my 00:13:39.730 --> 00:13:44.610 report. Wait a minute, but you know, you're five 00:13:44.610 --> 00:13:49.490 nine here, you know, uh, and I kind of emulated 00:13:49.490 --> 00:13:53.960 what I heard. Right and and that's where we all 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:58.779 start. I think it's a self -trained You know 00:13:58.779 --> 00:14:05.259 avocation and our role models As we learn from 00:14:05.259 --> 00:14:08.559 them we pick up their habits for better or worse 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:12.820 and I think back in the 70s or 60s there was 00:14:12.820 --> 00:14:18.049 some kind of a common practice to say Please 00:14:18.049 --> 00:14:20.169 copy. I don't know where it got started, but 00:14:20.169 --> 00:14:25.669 it has just been carried through and You know, 00:14:25.669 --> 00:14:29.049 it's not an evil thing. It's just simply a time 00:14:29.049 --> 00:14:33.289 waster and Another you know, there's some examples 00:14:33.289 --> 00:14:36.610 of this you are It's completely unnecessary. 00:14:36.610 --> 00:14:40.269 I mean what else is the information gonna be 00:14:40.269 --> 00:14:43.129 here? so you just need to say the other stations 00:14:43.129 --> 00:14:47.720 call sign maybe and and the exchange and that's 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:50.419 it. So you don't need to repeat information without 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:54.259 being asked to. 99 % of the time your information 00:14:54.259 --> 00:14:58.480 is received just fine. There's no point in receiving 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:02.779 it. It's like if you're in a line at the cashier 00:15:02.779 --> 00:15:05.500 and they want to talk your ear off for 30 seconds 00:15:05.500 --> 00:15:08.580 before they ring up your purchase. There's a 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:12.899 difference between courtesy and efficiency and 00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:17.039 effectiveness. And so in my point of view, as 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.539 a public service communicator and as an experienced 00:15:20.539 --> 00:15:24.379 competitive operator, I'll put it that way. To 00:15:24.379 --> 00:15:29.600 me, courtesy is efficiency. It's not courteous 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.720 to me to waste my time, just like it's not courteous 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.799 to somebody else to waste their time in a non 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:40.120 -conversational situation. If I'm having a rag 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:44.759 chew or there's, we're just kind of. packing 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:47.940 around on the air or something like that. Sure, 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:52.179 you know, take a little extra time. All this 00:15:52.179 --> 00:15:53.919 kind of stuff. It's not a big deal. But when 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:57.700 you're in a busy band, a busy channel, a busy 00:15:57.700 --> 00:16:01.039 net, and there's some urgency involved, you need 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:07.120 to make your radio discipline crisp. Other things 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:12.879 are sending like slash QRP. Okay, I can tell 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.639 that you're not You're not strong. And it seems 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:20.460 like always the only characters I ever copy are 00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:23.379 QRP out of the noise and stuff. So it really 00:16:23.379 --> 00:16:26.120 just slows things down. It's like, I hear the 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:28.220 guy in there, I hear him, I hear him. And then 00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:30.940 all I get is it always comes up and then I hear 00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:35.340 da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da QRP 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:40.879 or mobile or some other thing. It's just unhelpful 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:44.100 information. And then we all have Collided with 00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:47.220 the person that stretches out the digital messages 00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:49.840 and sends a bunch of extra things and they want 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.000 to play their Bragg tape when it's not appropriate 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.460 Stuff like that my personal habits. Let's let's 00:16:56.460 --> 00:17:02.159 You know be be fair here My my personal thing 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.779 is that I'm not consistent and I tend to say 00:17:05.779 --> 00:17:11.000 thank you too many times or instead of Just thanks 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:15.359 N0AX. I'll get into this habit of saying QRZ. 00:17:15.500 --> 00:17:19.240 It's a bunch of extra stuff. It's just not necessary. 00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:23.240 If you look at long -distance runners, for example, 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:28.700 as they're running along the street doing a marathon, 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:31.099 they're going to run however many miles it is, 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:35.400 26 and a half miles. They are not picking up 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:38.859 their feet. Any farther than they need to just 00:17:38.859 --> 00:17:41.980 clear the paper like half an inch. It's like 00:17:41.980 --> 00:17:44.720 they're gliding along the pavement They're not 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:47.640 waving their arms around you're not you know 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:49.779 marching down the street lifting up their feet 00:17:49.779 --> 00:17:52.480 and their legs and stuff They're conserving energy. 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:55.799 That's how we should strive to operate in a competitive 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.799 situation And that competitive situation prepares 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:03.779 us for when time really really does count and 00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:07.490 that's during emergency situations when we have 00:18:07.490 --> 00:18:12.529 to be quick, we have to be short, we have to 00:18:12.529 --> 00:18:17.349 be clear, we have to be effective. And so, my 00:18:17.349 --> 00:18:20.529 point is that effective operating practices are, 00:18:20.529 --> 00:18:23.769 in fact, the most courteous operating practices, 00:18:23.849 --> 00:18:26.450 and we just need to work on our technique. So, 00:18:26.769 --> 00:18:28.809 yeah, if you're trying to make a lot of content, 00:18:28.869 --> 00:18:33.109 it's aggravating to have people throw extra verbiage 00:18:33.109 --> 00:18:37.140 into the mix. And that's basically where it comes 00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:41.740 from. So I think it would be useful for the mentors 00:18:41.740 --> 00:18:44.700 that are listening tonight to next time you get 00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:47.680 a chance and you're teaching somebody how to 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:51.539 make a contact, listen to your own self, make 00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:54.640 sure that you have your own radio discipline 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.559 down, and explain to the person you're teaching 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:01.140 what radio discipline means and when it's important 00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:05.180 to be short, sweet. and when it's okay to be 00:19:05.180 --> 00:19:08.359 conversational. Most people don't think about 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:12.039 it that way. But they're willing to learn. And 00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:14.299 until somebody points it out to you, you're not 00:19:14.299 --> 00:19:16.500 going to know. So that's my little monologue 00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:20.859 on the subject. Yeah, I agree. I did it for a 00:19:20.859 --> 00:19:24.880 very long time. And then all of a sudden, we 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.279 were trying, you know, at school to find a way 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:33.599 to raise our point totals, we kind of hit a, 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:37.619 you know, a point where we were doing about everything 00:19:37.619 --> 00:19:43.299 we could. And it was like, okay, what are we 00:19:43.299 --> 00:19:47.160 going to do to try to get our levels up so that 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:52.119 we have a chance of winning this thing? And yeah, 00:19:52.420 --> 00:19:57.420 and school club roundup. Yeah. And it was, you 00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:00.940 know, At Contest University, that was one of 00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:04.440 the first things that we picked up on was, oh 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.299 my gosh, our script, we gotta cut this script 00:20:07.299 --> 00:20:10.440 down. We gotta get this, you know, we're saying 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:13.960 way too much stuff and we're taking way too long 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:19.619 to make a contact. And as soon as we cut that 00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:26.640 down, we won. I mean, it was a huge difference. 00:20:27.099 --> 00:20:38.380 Well, that's positive. It makes a point and that's 00:20:38.380 --> 00:20:40.700 a really good opportunity for when an operator 00:20:40.700 --> 00:20:44.660 is just beginning to build in good habits. And 00:20:44.660 --> 00:20:47.480 if you're going to have habits, might as well 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:51.859 be good ones. Absolutely. And one thing that 00:20:51.859 --> 00:20:54.119 I've noticed too, you've talked about public 00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:58.519 service. I started working satellites in the 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:01.759 last year or so and on satellites you have a 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:07.160 window of you know six to maybe 12 minutes if 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:11.819 you're lucky to make your contacts and you're 00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:14.200 gonna have to shift frequencies in the middle 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.420 of that because all the Doppler shift and everything 00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:21.980 and so sometimes you don't get all of that Six 00:21:21.980 --> 00:21:25.599 to twelve minutes and so you're on there and 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:27.559 you're like you can't get in a word edgewise 00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:30.059 because the same person is calling every five 00:21:30.059 --> 00:21:34.579 seconds and it's like, you know if you would 00:21:34.579 --> 00:21:38.059 you know not call once I might be able to get 00:21:38.059 --> 00:21:42.759 a contact but Especially on vacation. I remember 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:45.339 I was trying to get you know, a bunch of different 00:21:45.339 --> 00:21:50.990 grids worked and I think I got through one out 00:21:50.990 --> 00:21:56.210 of five passes because people just kept calling 00:21:56.210 --> 00:22:00.190 and calling and calling and calling and tied 00:22:00.190 --> 00:22:03.430 up the satellite weren't making contacts either, 00:22:04.430 --> 00:22:08.569 but I couldn't even make a call. And so that 00:22:08.569 --> 00:22:11.549 kind of hit home with me that, okay, you know, 00:22:11.730 --> 00:22:16.109 being efficient. on a satellite is the polite 00:22:16.109 --> 00:22:20.549 thing to do because there's not much time there. 00:22:21.410 --> 00:22:25.710 Right. Polite can mean a lot of different things 00:22:25.710 --> 00:22:30.089 and you know it's important to get your information 00:22:30.089 --> 00:22:34.490 out there but leave enough space for other people 00:22:34.490 --> 00:22:41.049 when it's necessary keep your transmissions short 00:22:41.049 --> 00:22:43.670 so that you're saying the necessary information 00:22:43.670 --> 00:22:48.170 but not extra and that's something that you have 00:22:48.170 --> 00:22:52.609 to be taught to do and It's the job of us who 00:22:52.609 --> 00:22:56.670 are more experienced operators to look at our 00:22:56.670 --> 00:23:02.109 practices and teach New hands how to operate 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:05.819 effectively and they'll find like you say They'll 00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:09.039 find that effective operating is successful operating, 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.819 and they'll make a higher score in a contest, 00:23:13.900 --> 00:23:17.740 but they'll also be a more effective net control, 00:23:17.740 --> 00:23:21.440 for example. And I've run net control exercises 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:26.119 in my public service groups more than once, and 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:31.460 we're in and we're out in 10 minutes, and there's 00:23:31.460 --> 00:23:35.059 none of these 20 -minute, 30 -minute nets that 00:23:35.059 --> 00:23:37.700 go on and on and on. And that's something that 00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:40.299 you'll learn how to do in contests. And after 00:23:40.299 --> 00:23:42.900 people get used to it, they appreciate the fact 00:23:42.900 --> 00:23:46.660 that you're saving them time. So if it's a conversation, 00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:50.480 by all means, say please and thank you and how 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:52.900 are you and how's the weather and all that kind 00:23:52.900 --> 00:23:55.700 of stuff and 73, four or five times and see you 00:23:55.700 --> 00:24:00.660 down the log. That's a great ham tradition. My 00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:04.329 my spouse called it the long goodbye. It takes 00:24:04.329 --> 00:24:06.269 us longer to say goodbye than it does to make 00:24:06.269 --> 00:24:10.589 the contact sometimes. But with tornadoes bearing 00:24:10.589 --> 00:24:15.250 down on you, it's not appropriate. So we need 00:24:15.250 --> 00:24:19.250 to know the difference. Yeah. And I think that 00:24:19.250 --> 00:24:21.890 even goes into, you know, you're talking about 00:24:21.890 --> 00:24:23.769 weather nets and that kind of thing that goes 00:24:23.769 --> 00:24:28.450 into even the nets. Are you checking in that 00:24:28.450 --> 00:24:32.569 it's raining? You know and tying up the system. 00:24:32.569 --> 00:24:35.690 Well, if you're in a what we call here an informal 00:24:35.690 --> 00:24:39.670 net, it's it's You know stuff is in the next 00:24:39.670 --> 00:24:41.809 county over and we're kind of waiting on it, 00:24:41.930 --> 00:24:45.950 you know to see what's going on Yeah, okay That 00:24:45.950 --> 00:24:49.710 may be okay, but then when a tornado warning 00:24:49.710 --> 00:24:53.990 comes out You've got to switch gears. You've 00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:58.049 got to limit your transmitting time and listen, 00:24:58.170 --> 00:25:01.690 listen, listen. And one of my Elmers always said 00:25:01.690 --> 00:25:05.690 that the PTT button was misnamed. It should be 00:25:05.690 --> 00:25:10.750 the RLL button or the RTL button. It should be 00:25:10.750 --> 00:25:15.279 released to listen. You need to keep the frequency 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:20.799 clear and listen so that if someone does have 00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:25.019 traffic, they can get in immediately. And that's 00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:30.880 another use of this. Yep. It's really the job 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:37.839 of the net control station to make it clear when 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.700 you're shifting gears. And if the net control 00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:47.319 says Shorten it up we need to Discipline ourselves 00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:49.400 here, you know, however you want to say it, you 00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:53.680 know, we need to go to a tight practices or whatever 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.859 the jargon is in your group then you listen and 00:25:56.859 --> 00:26:01.140 comply but if he's informal and little chatters, 00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:06.000 okay by all means by all means relax, but it's 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.440 up to the person running the show whether that's 00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:13.279 a net control or I know the person calling CQ 00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:17.559 or the DX station or whatever. Um, if you're 00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:20.599 not the boss, listen to the boss, emulate the 00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:25.099 boss and everybody will have a much better time. 00:26:26.259 --> 00:26:29.720 Well, so some good information there. And again, 00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:33.099 you know, if it's a con casual conversation, 00:26:33.099 --> 00:26:38.759 you know, It's okay. You know, it's okay. You 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:40.720 don't have to, you know, you don't have to worry 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.180 about it. But, but there are times when it does 00:26:43.180 --> 00:26:48.480 and figuring out when those changing gears, you 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.220 know, when that takes place, when you need to 00:26:52.220 --> 00:26:56.380 shorten it up as opposed to when it's okay, I 00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:59.339 think is something that, that a lot of hams struggle 00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:03.480 with. Yeah. Well, until you practice it, um, 00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:06.960 You know, it's that wax on, wax off thing. And 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:10.380 you mentioned scripts. I think that's a really 00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:15.500 great tool if you're a beginning contester or 00:27:15.500 --> 00:27:19.019 if you're a beginning net control. Make a script, 00:27:19.380 --> 00:27:23.279 nice big letters so you can see it. And you don't 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:25.859 have to follow along with your finger or anything, 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:30.880 but it will cue you and help your brain get it 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:35.549 right. And you just develop this rhythm for CQing 00:27:35.549 --> 00:27:38.470 and answering people, or for checking in people, 00:27:38.930 --> 00:27:42.130 or for whatever it is that you're doing. The 00:27:42.130 --> 00:27:44.349 script is really good. And like I said, if you're 00:27:44.349 --> 00:27:48.049 a more experienced operator, it's our job to 00:27:48.049 --> 00:27:52.569 help new hands learn good radio discipline. And 00:27:52.569 --> 00:27:56.029 that can't be taught from a book. It can only 00:27:56.029 --> 00:28:00.000 be taught by doing. So wax on. wax off, you do 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.160 the practice until you are so comfortable with 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:05.579 it, you don't even think of doing anything else. 00:28:06.339 --> 00:28:09.779 Very good. Well, we are running late. So let's, 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:12.859 let's take a break here. And I'll be back with 00:28:12.859 --> 00:28:15.480 Ward right after this word from ICOM America 00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:19.940 right here on HamTalk Live. Heard it? Worked 00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:23.369 it? Logged it. It's time to get the transceiver 00:28:23.369 --> 00:28:26.630 that is best suited for your lifestyle. ICOM 00:28:26.630 --> 00:28:29.390 offers a variety of high -performance and innovative 00:28:29.390 --> 00:28:32.130 products. See how you can make the most out of 00:28:32.130 --> 00:28:35.190 contest season with one of these transceivers. 00:28:35.450 --> 00:28:39.029 First, the IC -7851. 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It's all in the IC7300. 00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:01.859 Visit www .icomamerica .com slash amateur for 00:30:01.859 --> 00:30:07.500 more information on ICOM radios. Join the conversation. 00:30:07.859 --> 00:30:11.299 Call us on voice with Skype at HamTalk Live or 00:30:11.299 --> 00:30:15.799 give us a call at 812 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812 00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:23.440 -638 -4261. Now here's more HamTalk Live. We 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:41.180 put the ham in HamTalk Live. It's great to see 00:30:41.180 --> 00:30:44.299 the ICOM crew down at Huntsville and they've 00:30:44.299 --> 00:30:48.240 got some pretty cool stuff out there. So make 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:53.279 sure you check out icomamerica .com and make 00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.799 sure you check out HamTalk Live on Facebook, 00:30:55.900 --> 00:30:58.420 Twitter and Instagram. And we're here every Thursday 00:30:58.420 --> 00:31:02.180 night at nine PM Eastern time at hamtalklive 00:31:02.180 --> 00:31:06.500 .com. And it's time for your calls now. So If 00:31:06.500 --> 00:31:08.720 you have a question for Ward, give us a call 00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:15.579 at 812 -NATAM -1. That's 812 -638 -4261. Or you 00:31:15.579 --> 00:31:19.880 can Skype us at HamTalk Live on Skype. Also on 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:24.500 Twitter, we're at HamTalk Live. And so we'll 00:31:24.500 --> 00:31:28.319 see if we have some questions out there. During 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.680 the break ward, we talked a little bit about, 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.519 uh, you know, some other things that may have 00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:35.819 come to mind, um, and getting into this rhythm 00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:38.039 that you were talking about and, and, you know, 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.019 having the script to where you have what you're 00:31:41.019 --> 00:31:44.619 supposed to say and practice it and getting into 00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:47.420 this rhythm. And, and one of the things that 00:31:47.420 --> 00:31:54.779 we got to remember is breathe breathing. Yes. 00:31:54.980 --> 00:32:00.049 I started. In broadcasting when I was in college 00:32:00.049 --> 00:32:03.970 and my first newscast I think it was about three 00:32:03.970 --> 00:32:06.650 in the morning and I was convinced that there 00:32:06.650 --> 00:32:08.430 were thousands people out there listening and 00:32:08.430 --> 00:32:12.289 I got nervous and I couldn't make myself breathe 00:32:12.289 --> 00:32:16.289 and My voice got higher and higher and higher 00:32:16.289 --> 00:32:20.089 and I think by the end of the one minute One 00:32:20.089 --> 00:32:22.089 or two minute newscast. I was about ready to 00:32:22.089 --> 00:32:29.109 pass out so Breathing is really great. We got 00:32:29.109 --> 00:32:31.589 sweepstakes coming up in November, and that's 00:32:31.589 --> 00:32:37.869 a real popular phone contest for hams here in 00:32:37.869 --> 00:32:40.430 the United States. And a lot of people jump in 00:32:40.430 --> 00:32:43.750 there and make a few contacts. But it's a really 00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:46.950 long exchange. You've got to give a call sign. 00:32:47.049 --> 00:32:48.569 You've got to give a number. You've got to give 00:32:48.569 --> 00:32:51.089 a precedence, a check and section, and all that 00:32:51.089 --> 00:32:55.200 stuff. And if you're used to just saying, you 00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:57.619 know, Ward, Missouri, and suddenly you've got 00:32:57.619 --> 00:33:02.920 this paragraph to send, it can be disconcerting. 00:33:03.059 --> 00:33:06.299 And what I counsel people to do is before they 00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:12.259 give the exchange, just take a breath, just N0AX, 00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:19.380 your number 22, alpha, W0EEE39, Missouri. And 00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:22.660 you never run out of breath. You develop a rhythm, 00:33:23.140 --> 00:33:25.839 and it becomes second nature after a while. Works 00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:28.799 for all kinds of things. So, you know, there's 00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:32.849 a free tip of the day. Breathe. There we go no 00:33:32.849 --> 00:33:35.890 extra charge for that for you listeners out there 00:33:35.890 --> 00:33:39.049 eight one two three eight one two six three eight 00:33:39.049 --> 00:33:41.890 four two six one about gave my phone number eight 00:33:41.890 --> 00:33:45.789 one two six three eight four two six one if You 00:33:45.789 --> 00:33:48.950 have a question here for Ward will talk about 00:33:48.950 --> 00:33:52.130 some of the things we say on the air here for 00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:55.160 For just a bit longer. So if you have a question, 00:33:55.180 --> 00:33:58.000 uh, give us a tweet, give us a call. We'll be, 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:02.019 uh, happy to hear from you. So, uh, you know, 00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:05.819 we, we, we beat up on, please copy pretty hard 00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:10.760 here. Uh, what are some of the other things that, 00:34:10.780 --> 00:34:17.219 that are kind of in the same category? Oh, um, 00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:21.500 well, we talked about you are, uh, what it's 00:34:21.500 --> 00:34:26.300 really, I am. And repeating information, I think, 00:34:27.659 --> 00:34:33.019 is a time waster, a time eater. And my personal 00:34:33.019 --> 00:34:36.360 thing, like I said, is I tend to say thank you 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:38.420 one extra time. If you're going to say thanks, 00:34:38.780 --> 00:34:43.659 say it at the end. If you're calling CQ and the 00:34:43.659 --> 00:34:45.699 person gives you their information and you got 00:34:45.699 --> 00:34:48.219 it, you just say thanks and your call sign, you're 00:34:48.219 --> 00:34:51.300 on. You want to give the other person a cue. 00:34:51.550 --> 00:34:55.949 that you got it correct. Thanks is just fine 00:34:55.949 --> 00:34:59.570 there's no need to give a cue signal and some 00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:02.210 people will tell you that cue signals shouldn't 00:35:02.210 --> 00:35:05.429 even be used on phone but you can just say thanks 00:35:05.429 --> 00:35:08.650 or got it and your call sign whatever comes out 00:35:08.650 --> 00:35:13.030 of your mouth easily and doesn't take a lot of 00:35:13.030 --> 00:35:17.940 work to say. Just say it once and I think the 00:35:17.940 --> 00:35:20.139 important thing is just to look at your own operating 00:35:20.139 --> 00:35:25.300 practices and say, what could I improve? What 00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:31.159 could I snip out as not being useful? And go 00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:34.360 from there. All right. We do have a call on the 00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:39.119 line here. So welcome to HamTalk Live. Hi, Neil. 00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.960 This is Jocelyn. This is Jocelyn, KD8VRX. How 00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.090 are you? Ah, Jocelyn, good day. Good to hear 00:35:46.090 --> 00:35:49.449 your voice again. It's almost like I saw you 00:35:49.449 --> 00:35:54.670 a few days ago. Yeah, exactly. Right. Exactly. 00:35:54.670 --> 00:35:57.730 Right. Uh, I was listening in and a work doing 00:35:57.730 --> 00:36:00.789 a great job as usual. I did attend contest university, 00:36:00.989 --> 00:36:03.349 not this past year, but, uh, the year before. 00:36:03.750 --> 00:36:07.429 And, uh, I will say I did the, uh, informal contest 00:36:07.429 --> 00:36:10.210 that is field day. Uh, that's a whole other topic 00:36:10.210 --> 00:36:13.960 that you can talk about. But I had the similar 00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.599 thing. I didn't have to please copy. I had somebody, 00:36:17.099 --> 00:36:20.139 and we were hunting and pecking, and I had his 00:36:20.139 --> 00:36:23.219 information already. So when my turn, you know, 00:36:23.300 --> 00:36:24.920 I was trying to reach him, reach him, finally 00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:27.659 my turn came up, and I basically just said, all 00:36:27.659 --> 00:36:30.360 right, I know you're a, you know, for Alpha, 00:36:30.739 --> 00:36:34.880 Michigan, for example, I'm for Alpha, Ohio, QSL, 00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:39.239 and the... I was expecting a QSL back and we'd 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:41.820 be moving on and try to be efficient. And the 00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:45.059 gentleman, obviously, was new to field day. So 00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:48.820 he was like, let's see here. I am for Alpha Michigan 00:36:48.820 --> 00:36:54.039 QSL. The QSL took way too much time. But again, 00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:56.320 I think it's one of those things where it's field 00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:59.519 day and a lot of people are learning. And as 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:02.980 Ward said, bad habits are hard to direct. And 00:37:02.980 --> 00:37:05.340 try to get a good habit in the beginning would 00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:09.309 be very helpful. But you need helmers for that. 00:37:10.070 --> 00:37:13.489 So that's, as you said, as people have gone to 00:37:13.489 --> 00:37:16.210 contest university, it's our job, I feel, to 00:37:16.210 --> 00:37:19.030 educate people in terms of trying to make it 00:37:19.030 --> 00:37:21.369 efficient. Now, again, field day being an informal 00:37:21.369 --> 00:37:24.489 contest means that it's a little bit more relaxed, 00:37:24.489 --> 00:37:27.110 and you have to be a little bit lenient. But 00:37:27.110 --> 00:37:31.289 anyways, for a bigger contest, I know that most 00:37:31.289 --> 00:37:34.269 people appreciate the quick change and move on. 00:37:35.389 --> 00:37:39.139 Yep. I think that's right. Field Day attracts, 00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:43.960 what is it, almost 50 ,000 hams, I think, at 00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:47.719 this point. So it's an enormous open house for 00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:50.360 ham radio. And sure, a lot of people are making 00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:55.039 their first contact. So you're going to hear 00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:58.500 all kinds of interesting behaviors on the air. 00:37:58.820 --> 00:38:03.280 And I think what happened when you said, well, 00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:06.179 I know you're for Alpha Michigan. Basically, 00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:10.099 you upset their rhythm, you know, and he was 00:38:10.099 --> 00:38:14.980 saying he was used to doing, you know, the CQ, 00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.099 you give your call, he gives the exchange, you 00:38:17.099 --> 00:38:20.079 give your exchange, thank you. And if you disrupt 00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.440 that, if people aren't real skilled, they can 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.300 really throw them for a loop. But, you know, 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:30.739 it's just anything can happen and maybe a noise 00:38:30.739 --> 00:38:34.480 crash can do exactly the same thing. So we just 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:37.519 need to have a little help and take it easy with 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:40.400 people. I never yell at them for saying, please 00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:44.519 copy on the air. I just throw my radio across 00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:48.079 the ground. That's OK. Nobody can see me do that. 00:38:48.219 --> 00:38:52.659 That's OK. That's all right. I love field day, 00:38:52.659 --> 00:38:57.300 and I always have. It's just a terrific event 00:38:57.300 --> 00:38:59.880 and gets a lot of people on the air. It's just 00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:04.289 when you hear most new hams making their first 00:39:04.289 --> 00:39:09.590 batch QSOs. So I'm hopeful that more of us experienced 00:39:09.590 --> 00:39:12.550 guys and gals will get out there and help people 00:39:12.550 --> 00:39:15.969 operate. And I'm delighted that you went to Contest 00:39:15.969 --> 00:39:18.030 University. And it sounds like you learned a 00:39:18.030 --> 00:39:23.210 lot, Jocelyn. Yes, yes, I did. And like I said, 00:39:23.230 --> 00:39:24.889 we're trying to put it to good use. But yeah, 00:39:24.989 --> 00:39:27.230 you do, as Neil said, you do catch yourself saying, 00:39:27.469 --> 00:39:29.610 please copy and you know you're just wasting 00:39:29.610 --> 00:39:33.010 time. You know on field day, it depends who you're 00:39:33.010 --> 00:39:34.630 talking to. It's probably not that big of a deal, 00:39:34.849 --> 00:39:37.070 but it's not a good habit. So you try to get 00:39:37.070 --> 00:39:40.170 rid of it. So anyways, thank you very much, Neil, 00:39:40.309 --> 00:39:43.949 for taking the call and I'll be listening on. 00:39:44.269 --> 00:39:46.949 So thank you, Ward, for being on and we'll talk 00:39:46.949 --> 00:39:52.269 to you guys soon. 73. 73, Justin, thanks. Okay, 00:39:52.349 --> 00:39:58.179 bye. Bye -bye. 812 -638 -4261 is the telephone 00:39:58.179 --> 00:40:01.260 number if you'd like to call in we have a few 00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:04.239 minutes remaining so we'll we'll do that and 00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.699 we'll try not to get into the is field day a 00:40:07.699 --> 00:40:10.440 contest or not a contest argument because you 00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:14.440 know if you keep score well isn't that a contest 00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:17.239 but but it but it's more than that and and so 00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:19.579 it can be a lot of different things to a lot 00:40:19.579 --> 00:40:24.690 of different people and so it's still Like you 00:40:24.690 --> 00:40:29.070 said a chance to practice those things and and 00:40:29.070 --> 00:40:32.329 we were patient with those who were still learning 00:40:32.329 --> 00:40:35.389 that Well, you know one thing you mentioned is 00:40:35.389 --> 00:40:37.530 it's a lot of things so a lot of people and I've 00:40:37.530 --> 00:40:41.650 been at everything from full out We got a win 00:40:41.650 --> 00:40:45.230 the category groups all the way to it's a club 00:40:45.230 --> 00:40:47.369 picnic and there's a radio over there if you 00:40:47.369 --> 00:40:51.469 want to operate so you know, it's in I guess 00:40:51.469 --> 00:40:54.869 I'm pushing 45 field days now. I've seen a lot 00:40:54.869 --> 00:40:59.269 of different versions. You know, you just need 00:40:59.269 --> 00:41:03.409 to agree on what it is that you are all planning 00:41:03.409 --> 00:41:07.769 on doing and operate in that way. It started 00:41:07.769 --> 00:41:11.829 out as an emergency communications training exercise. 00:41:11.869 --> 00:41:16.329 It's sort of morphed into open house and on a 00:41:16.329 --> 00:41:19.579 related subject. When I put up signage for people 00:41:19.579 --> 00:41:23.219 and I'm trying to attract the public who do not 00:41:23.219 --> 00:41:25.340 know very much about ham radio, maybe they've 00:41:25.340 --> 00:41:29.920 never seen one at all, the signage that I put 00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:34.860 up says ham radio open house. Everybody knows 00:41:34.860 --> 00:41:39.519 what open house means. Hardly anybody knows what 00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:43.800 field day means and if you are a civilian I'll 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:47.239 put it that way a lay person and you come across 00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:50.019 a bunch of amateurs with a whole lot of equipment 00:41:50.019 --> 00:41:53.059 and antennas and The safety tape and all this 00:41:53.059 --> 00:41:55.900 kind of stuff It can be pretty intimidating to 00:41:55.900 --> 00:41:58.639 just go over and barge in and ask them what they're 00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:02.599 doing but if you make it clear that it's a demonstration 00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:06.059 that it's an open house that we're here to show 00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:09.800 you what we've got. More people will come over 00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:12.440 and take a look. It also helps to have a sign 00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:14.960 that says free cookies and coffee or something. 00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:18.260 You can have one that says free beer, but then 00:42:18.260 --> 00:42:22.900 they'll never leave. So you just want to welcome 00:42:22.900 --> 00:42:25.539 people in and encourage them by talking to them 00:42:25.539 --> 00:42:28.699 using phrases and terms that they understand. 00:42:29.059 --> 00:42:31.780 So if you say open house, They'll get it and 00:42:31.780 --> 00:42:36.599 they'll come over. An interesting comment here 00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:42.900 online from Carl KD9HQT and says, you know, it's 00:42:42.900 --> 00:42:45.159 annoying every once in a while when someone responds 00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:51.900 with just your call. After you call CQ and they 00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:54.719 just say they're called respond instead of using 00:42:54.719 --> 00:43:00.980 your call and then their call and there's a history 00:43:00.980 --> 00:43:06.820 behind that to call sign thing. And Ward, I bet 00:43:06.820 --> 00:43:11.949 you remember it. Well. There's a lot of different 00:43:11.949 --> 00:43:15.329 stories about that, but the two call signs, they're 00:43:15.329 --> 00:43:18.750 not required by the rules at all. The only call 00:43:18.750 --> 00:43:21.630 sign that is required to identify your transmission 00:43:21.630 --> 00:43:26.289 is your own call sign. And so there's really 00:43:26.289 --> 00:43:31.110 no need to say the person that you're calling's 00:43:31.110 --> 00:43:33.670 call sign, the station that you're calling, unless 00:43:33.670 --> 00:43:37.269 there are two stations or more than one station. 00:43:37.869 --> 00:43:41.869 on the same frequency. For example, if you have 00:43:41.869 --> 00:43:46.429 in a public service net, if you have several 00:43:46.429 --> 00:43:50.349 people standing by waiting for traffic, you would 00:43:50.349 --> 00:43:52.929 definitely want to give their call sign first. 00:43:53.349 --> 00:43:56.329 If you're tuning around in a contest and you 00:43:56.329 --> 00:43:58.969 hear somebody calling CQ, there's nobody else 00:43:58.969 --> 00:44:02.789 on the channel, then there is no reason to give 00:44:02.789 --> 00:44:05.869 their call sign. You just give yours. Give it 00:44:05.869 --> 00:44:09.000 once. And if they need a repeat, they'll pick 00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:12.300 it right up. And there's also a question about, 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:16.340 do both call signs have to be given during every 00:44:16.340 --> 00:44:20.519 QSO at some point? And the answer is no. The 00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:24.559 FCC was asked to rule on that some years ago. 00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:28.800 And their point was, we just want to know who 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:32.920 is making the transmission. So if you read the 00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:35.800 rule, it says, The call sign must be given at 00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:39.659 the end of the communication does not say contact 00:44:39.659 --> 00:44:43.659 The communication may be a series of contacts. 00:44:43.659 --> 00:44:48.800 It may be a conversation Obviously you can hear 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:51.679 people all the time talking for up to ten minutes 00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:53.980 without identifying and then they'll drop in 00:44:53.980 --> 00:44:59.800 their call so The history of it is probably from 00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:02.659 round tables and nets and things like that And 00:45:02.659 --> 00:45:05.940 in such cases, it's still quite appropriate to 00:45:05.940 --> 00:45:08.780 give the station your calling's call sign. For 00:45:08.780 --> 00:45:12.000 example, I may call CQ and I get two people calling 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:17.800 me. It happens all the time. So I will say specifically 00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:23.420 who I'm calling back. And I might drop in my 00:45:23.420 --> 00:45:26.280 call sign if I think there's any confusion. It 00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:28.699 never hurts if you think there's a possibility 00:45:28.699 --> 00:45:32.170 of confusion. to give both call signs. And that's 00:45:32.170 --> 00:45:35.349 often appreciated. Sometimes two stations can 00:45:35.349 --> 00:45:37.769 be in each other's skip zone and think they're 00:45:37.769 --> 00:45:41.909 working the same guys. And they're not. So it 00:45:41.909 --> 00:45:44.750 happens all the time. I'd say there's a long 00:45:44.750 --> 00:45:48.809 response to a short message online. Neil, go 00:45:48.809 --> 00:45:53.750 ahead. Just thinking about rule changes that 00:45:53.750 --> 00:45:57.530 that was a, you know, something that you really 00:45:57.530 --> 00:46:02.590 had to do at one point and it kind of stuck and, 00:46:03.150 --> 00:46:06.889 and, and the rules aren't that way now. Yeah. 00:46:07.130 --> 00:46:12.070 Well, um, the rules have been that you have to, 00:46:12.349 --> 00:46:15.070 as far as identification go, all you have to 00:46:15.070 --> 00:46:18.869 do is give your call sign the rest of it. Is 00:46:18.869 --> 00:46:21.710 for operational effectiveness and you have to 00:46:21.710 --> 00:46:24.869 decide on your own whether the other stations 00:46:24.869 --> 00:46:30.570 call sign is effective or not. There you go. 00:46:30.789 --> 00:46:35.530 Well, and I think that's a good place to end 00:46:35.530 --> 00:46:38.349 here tonight because that's really what we've 00:46:38.349 --> 00:46:43.300 been talking about is. making those decisions 00:46:43.300 --> 00:46:47.980 and trying to be concise and not waste people's 00:46:47.980 --> 00:46:53.219 time, but yet still be polite and be courteous 00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:58.539 and when to do what. And I think that's a perfect 00:46:58.539 --> 00:47:01.920 place to leave things forward. So thank you so 00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:05.980 much for coming on the show, talking to us about 00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:12.460 that and dare I say it. I'll catch you further 00:47:12.460 --> 00:47:15.719 down the log. There you go. Please copy Neil 00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:26.920 We have the fourth cat sighting on the show Sorry 00:47:26.920 --> 00:47:31.500 kitty Yeah, electric likes to hang around here 00:47:31.500 --> 00:47:35.579 in the office It's just that we we just need 00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:39.199 to remember that sometimes of courteous means 00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:44.500 deficient And sometimes courteous is, um, polite 00:47:44.500 --> 00:47:47.059 and with extra manners and that little social 00:47:47.059 --> 00:47:50.880 grease we use to, to, uh, deal with each other. 00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:54.159 So it's, it's just important to realize there 00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:57.239 might be different, uh, definitions of that at 00:47:57.239 --> 00:47:59.659 different times and learn when to shift gears. 00:47:59.900 --> 00:48:02.679 That's just part of becoming experienced. So 00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:05.059 73 is, and thanks for having me on the show. 00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:09.210 All right. Very good. And, and. And now it's 00:48:09.210 --> 00:48:12.409 time to talk, whether it's 73 or 73. Oh, wait, 00:48:12.429 --> 00:48:20.500 we're out of time. So sorry. Oh, no. So sorry, 00:48:20.500 --> 00:48:23.000 we're out of time. We can't get into that discussion 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.019 tonight. So anyway, ward, thank you so much for 00:48:26.019 --> 00:48:29.559 coming on the show. That is a wrap for this week's 00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:32.599 edition of ham talk live. Thanks to ward silver 00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:35.920 in zero a X and everybody out there in cyberspace 00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:38.860 for listening and calling in. And next Thursday 00:48:38.860 --> 00:48:42.260 night at nine PM Eastern time, we have a bit 00:48:42.260 --> 00:48:47.780 of a. triangular table I guess it's three people 00:48:47.780 --> 00:48:50.059 so I guess it's a triangular table instead of 00:48:50.059 --> 00:48:55.119 a round table but some of the leaders of some 00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.139 of the big HamFest, Michael Coulter, W8CI from 00:48:59.139 --> 00:49:03.199 Dayton, Michael Colley, W4MCA from Orlando, and 00:49:03.199 --> 00:49:06.719 Mark Brown in for BCD from Huntsville will be 00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:09.840 here to talk about their HamFest and how they 00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:13.320 support one another and how the HamFest can support 00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:16.099 one another. So be sure to tune in for that. 00:49:16.099 --> 00:49:18.340 And for a list of all of our upcoming guests, 00:49:18.619 --> 00:49:22.500 just go to HamTalkLive .com. And if you like 00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:25.389 the show, please leave us a you on iTunes or 00:49:25.389 --> 00:49:28.210 wherever you listen. That helps us, uh, get the 00:49:28.210 --> 00:49:30.590 word out faster. So for now, this is Neil rap 00:49:30.590 --> 00:49:35.269 WB nine VPG saying seven three, seven five, and 00:49:35.269 --> 00:49:55.559 may the good DX be yours. You never once mentioned 00:49:55.559 --> 00:50:00.260 your weather at all And I didn't mention mine 00:50:00.260 --> 00:50:05.639 We talked and talked for hours and hours I completely 00:50:05.639 --> 00:50:10.780 forgot you're a ham I don't know your power or 00:50:10.780 --> 00:50:14.019 the height of your tower And frankly I don't 00:50:14.019 --> 00:50:20.500 give a damn So 73, to you and your family I'll 00:50:20.500 --> 00:50:28.360 be seeing you for the last time Obviously in 00:50:28.360 --> 00:50:28.980 your urban...