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Good evening once again, ladies and gentlemen.
It's time for another episode of HamTalk Live.
It's episode number 139, News and Views with
CQ's Rich Moses and W2VU, recorded live on Thursday,
November 1st, 2018. I'm your host, Neil Rapp,
WB9 VPG. Thanks for tuning in to this episode
of HamTalk Live. Tonight, We're joined by Rich
Mosison, W2VU from CQ Magazine, and we will take
your calls live in just a few minutes. Last week
here on the show, Glenn Petrie, KE4KY and Gene
Spinelli, K5GS were here to talk about the Do
see Island at the Expedition. We thank Gene for
calling in live from the island last week. And
if you missed that, you can still listen anytime
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.com Rich Mosison W2VU is our guest tonight.
He is the editor of CQ Magazine and the editorial
director at CQ Communications Incorporated. He's
been a ham since, sorry, he's been a ham since
1970. Knows previously WN2QQN, WA2QQN, N2BFG
and NW2L. He's active on all bands from 80 all
the way to 70 centimeters and Rich served eight
years as an ARRL section manager for the Northern
New Jersey section and former member of and past
chairman of the ARRL Public Relations Committee.
He's been a CQ staffer since 1992 and was the
founding editor of CQVHF magazine. and wrote
and produced the seven introductory ham radio
programs in the CQ video library and was CQ magazine's
50th anniversary coordinator in 1995. And we
haven't had him on the show yet. So Rich, thanks
for coming on the show tonight. Good evening,
Neil. It's great to be here. And I mentioned
the 50th anniversary. We're coming up on our
75th very soon. Uh, so it's, uh, time flies when
you're having fun. Yeah. We're working on it.
We're working on it and anybody has specific
ideas or we're listening. Um, and speaking of
fun, I hope a lot of people out there had fun
in the CQ world, YDX contest this past weekend.
Uh, I know I did. Yeah, I did too. It was a lot
of fun. We had a chance to talk about a little
bit before the show and, uh, Probably talk about
a little bit more here in just a bit, but I hope
everybody did Enjoy that and get some more countries
in the log and some contacts well, we've got
a variety of topics here to talk about tonight
and one of them that has come up is this Type
acceptance issue the FCC came along and issued
kind of a warning that you know if radios weren't
properly uh type accepted and approved that um
Those weren't going to be allowed to be imported.
And so, um, then some news came out that they
were kind of backing off of it. And then it was
all kind of wishy washy. So, uh, fill us in a
little bit on, on what we know about that. And,
and, you know, some people have been kind of
arguing back and forth. Well, those are, those
are real legal and no, they're not. And yes,
they are. No, they're not. So, so give us the
rundown a little bit on that. Well, it's, it's
kind of. Difficult because nobody really knows
exactly what's going on. I mean the league has
been talking with the FCC people about getting
some clarification from them and You know as
of the executive committee meeting About a week
and a half ago. They still hadn't heard anything
back and the a double RL letter we came out today
Reported on that meeting and didn't have any
updates. So I presume they still haven't gotten
a clarification You know what's different here?
is that in the past, and it's a long -standing
FCC policy, that any radios imported, marketed,
sold have to be authorized. You used to call
it type acceptance, now it's equipment authorization.
And the only exception being stuff. specifically
for ham use. That gives us the flexibility to
experiment and build our own gear. I mean, we're
extremely lucky as hams that we're the only people
with licenses to transmit on the radio who get
to build our own gear without having it go through
FCC certification process and stuff like that.
But this new notice that came out, I guess about
five or six weeks ago now, says that in addition
to importing or selling them, it says because
these devices must be but have not been authorized
by the FCC, the devices may not be imported into
the United States, retailers may not advertise
or sell them, and no one may use them. And that
is what's different than from the past. guidance
from the FCC had always been that if a radio
is designed for use on the amateur bands and
is not type accepted and operates outside the
amateur bands, it's still legal for hams to use
it on the ham bands. And this notice seems to
change that, but it's not... Super clear because
later on, you know, it says unless the devices
operate exclusively on frequencies reserved for
amateur licensees Equipment with the technical
requirements cannot be certified and thus cannot
be imported advertised sold or used and then
there's the amateur radio exception, but it really
isn't clear as to what they mean in terms of
hams using these radios on amateur frequencies
for which equipment authorization is not required.
So it's really very mucky. To say the least.
Yeah. And the league has been going after the
FCC to clarify this and they haven't gotten any
clarification from them. So, it's murky. I wouldn't
say don't use the radios on the handbands. I
laughed when I saw the thing in this announcement
that said the Bureau will take very seriously
any reports of failures of two -way radio operators
to comply with all relevant rules and requirements
when using devices in the amateur bands. Give
me a break. They don't enforce anything in the
amateur bands. You know interference and things
like that. They're they're Absent when it comes
to enforcement and how are they going to know
what brand radio you're using if you're using
it in the amateur band You know, there's I suppose
if they wanted to Really invest a tremendous
amount of resources into it there we've run an
article in the past and seek you on radio fingerprinting
every Radio has its own key up characteristics
and if they really wanted to get on a repeater
and listen and figure out what brand of radio
everybody's using I Suppose that technically
they could do it, but we know they don't have
the resources for that They don't have the resources
to do the enforcement. We want them to be doing
so I Laughed when I saw that 50 ,000 new FCC
agents We'll get out there and start scanning
the streets for those. Yeah. My personal view,
I'm not a lawyer. I can't give legal advice.
My personal view is that if you're operating
on amateur frequencies and you're operating legally,
you have nothing to worry about. We'll see what
the commission eventually tells the league, but
it's kind of silly. And, you know, we've also
had for a long time the flexibility to be able
to operate our radios in certain cases off of
amateur frequencies. For example, members of
Mars do not operate on amateur frequencies when
they're acting as Mars members. The Mars frequencies
are just off, you know, just outside the amateur
bands, for example. on the two meter band, I
believe the Mars frequencies are just above 148.
So if you're authorized to operate in Mars, then
you're authorized to operate on the frequency.
And again, there is no practical way for the
FCC to know what brand of radio you're using
or what model of radio you're using. And as long
as you're operating legally, Otherwise, you know,
I can't imagine that there would be any real
problem But as far as as you know, are these
radios legal to use? We have to wait to eventually
get Clarification from the FCC if you want to
be super careful about it Use it to listen Actually,
if you read that very closely, you can't even
use it to listen. It says you may not use it
Yeah Okay, FCC. I've got one of those radios
and I use it to listen come get me Now do you
think they were talking about like Just ones
in the future. You think they were just talking
about Importing them, you know in the future
you really think they were no they're talking
about Radios that are out there now with the
the real concern is that there are radios that
are being marketed as amateur gear, but really
being promoted for use outside the amateur bands,
whether it's FRS or MERS or GMRS or frequencies
that are not authorized for general usage. That's
the real problem. And there is a real problem
there that these radios, certain radios are kind
of wide open and you can transmit anywhere with
them, and if you don't have the proper licensing
and don't know the regulations regarding what
frequencies are okay to use and what frequencies
are not okay to use, and what radios are okay
to use, then yes, there is a lot of potential
interference problems and stuff like that. So
it's a valid concern. Basically, I think they're
trying to push these manufacturers to get the
equipment certified and to restrict access to
frequencies that are not intended for use by
members of the public, whether they be amateurs
or users of FRS or GMRS, to restrict the operation
to the proper frequencies. This appears to be
an overly broad interpretation of their long
-standing rule I mean, you know, this is not
a new thing. There have been a lot of radios
out there that for years and years and years
ever since Synthesizers replaced crystals that
you know, there's been stuff available Online
as long as there's been an online and even before
that there were other places where you could
get you know, information on how to clip this
diode out of your radio and open up transmit
on the entire frequency coverage of the radio.
So this is not something new. The fact that they
are making a big deal out of the situation is
fairly new. There is a real problem. It's not
problem on the hand bands. It's a problem with
radios being used for unauthorized purposes that
are being marketed as ham rigs, but not actually
being limited to the hand bands. So there is
a real problem. They're not just doing this to
harass people. There definitely is a real problem,
but the Solution that they have out here right
now is overly broad in my view Yeah, I've noticed
a few people, you know, and I would mention something
about You know the radio and you know something
hammer related and they're like, huh? You know,
they don't even know what they have exactly And
I can't believe that we got through that entire
segment without playing the the balfang clip
how did we do that there you go oh i said it
you said it okay there's the running gag for
those of you playing along at home we we We got
it in there. So, well, let's switch a little
bit over to a WWV. Um, I know, um, I got, uh,
and somehow I didn't tell you this, but somehow
I think I got on the CQ mailing list like six
times at different addresses. So every time I
get one of these mailings, I get it like six
times. And so about six times I got this email
about Be sure to sign the petition for WWV which
I'd already had but I know you guys were really
encouraging people to sign the petitions to to
keep WWV around and it just kind of came out
of nowhere of oh, let's Let's make some budget
cuts. Let's let's turn off WWV so You tried to
do some some reporting on that and find out some
things I also did for Amateur Radio Newsline.
I tried to contact several different people.
And Rich, what did we come up with? There is
about as much clear information on this as there
is on the FCC's restrictions on the imported
radios that I won't mention by name. It's another
one of these stories where there is not a lot
of... authoritative information out there as
to the status. And it's one thing I want to mention,
in addition to that petition, which we did encourage
people to sign at the time, we really encouraged
people to contact their congressional representatives,
because that is really where the decisions will
be made. The petitions would only, if they had
gotten enough signatures, which they didn't,
basically would have waved a little flag in front
of the Secretary of Commerce to say, hey, there's
a bunch of people out here who have a problem
with what you're proposing. The actual decisions
on budget and on funding are made by Congress,
specifically, particularly the House of Representatives.
So it's really important to get in touch with
your representatives in Congress. They're kind
of busy right now trying to get reelected, but
hopefully their staff members will be available
to talk with you. And let them know just how
important the services provided by WWV and WWVH
and WWVB really are. You know, it's not just
us hams who are going to be affected by this
shutdown. If you have one of these self -setting
watches or clocks, these so -called atomic clocks
that aren't really, they all rely on WWVB to
keep their time set. There are some varieties
of clocks that actually use WWV signals, but
they do it over the air from WWVB generally,
and they will not be Have their their time synchronized
if WWVB goes away You know the National Institute
of Standards and Technology Sends out time signals
over the internet, which is wonderful if you
have internet access but we're not always in
places where we have internet access and There
are times when the internet goes away as we hams
all know So, it's really important to continue
to have this. The amount of money they would
save is pocket change in the overall NIST budget.
The logic in the budget proposal was really kind
of mind -boggling because they would say at one
point that what we that the services we provide
can't be duplicated by anyone else and they're
very important. And then two paragraphs down
they say, so we're gonna get rid of them. Reading
this was an exercise in doublespeak. And really
kind of Very strange logic if you can even call
it that because there wasn't really much logic
behind it As I was reading that It was like,
okay, they're telling the importance of this
and Then they turned around and say okay. We're
gonna turn it off. It was almost like to me it
was like here's how really important this thing
is and and and You're forcing us to cut our budget.
So we're going to, you know, we're going to turn
this thing off. It was almost like they were
trying to tell somebody, okay, you don't want
to cut our budget. Yeah. That's the impression
I have as well is that, uh, it was not a voluntary
thing. I have a feeling they must have gotten
the directive from the Department of Commerce
under which NIST resides to cut your budget by
15%. This is what they've come up with. Essentially,
sometimes people in the federal government, particularly
in the agencies, will resist a blanket request
or directive to cut their budgets by threatening
to cut or proposing to cut things that are really
essential and then hoping that with their explanations
in their proposal as to cut them, that members
of Congress will say, well, you can't possibly
cut this. It's too important and restore the
money. So hopefully that's what their purpose
is here in this confusing budget document is
to give Congress all the reasons they need to
not cut the money that's being proposed. But
I don't know and haven't been able to find out
and you haven't been able to find out what the
status is. of the NIST budget proposal. So I
would say that since no one is yet saying that
it's too late, that the budget has been adopted,
that there's still time for people to contact
their representatives and urge them to maintain
funding for these stations. And you mentioned
they've got a big anniversary coming up. Yeah.
If you go to the WWV website, they don't talk
about shutting down. They talk about 2019 being
their 100th anniversary and the WWV is the longest
continually operating radio station in the United
States. So let's see. How should we celebrate
our centennial of being continuously on the air?
Hey, let's shut it down. Oh my goodness. Yeah.
And every time I tried to ask somebody it's like,
well, you have to talk to my supervisor. Well,
you have to talk to my supervisor and I just
got nowhere. Yeah. I put together in our October
issue about almost two page analysis of the ridiculousness
of this proposal and the different things that
are on different pages of the proposal that are
basically self -contradictory. So I have here
the logic behind the proposed cuts is mystifying,
as is the structure of the report, which on one
hand explains how these services are essential
to the country and cannot be duplicated by anyone
else. And on the other hand, proposes significant
cuts to those very programs. Yeah, that's the
only thing I can figure was, you know, they're
trying to say, you know, okay, you can cut this,
you know, and if you do, 50 million devices are
going to quit working. Right. Do you really want
to do that? Do you? And this is, I haven't been
able to dig up the specifics, but I seem to remember
that this has happened before. Maybe six or seven
years ago, I seem to remember that there was
a similar proposal to shut down the WWVs and
that they were successful in getting Congress
to retain the funding for it. did some looking
back and couldn't find the specifics of it, but
I Do believe this is not the first time this
has happened Well, we're running a little overtime
here, so we're going to stop and take a break
and we'll come back We'll talk a little CQ worldwide
and take your calls live. If you have those,
I'll go ahead and give you the phone number.
It's 812 -638 -4261. That's the number you can
call when we come back with Rich Moses and W2VU
from CQ Magazine right here on HamTalk Live after
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So if you have a question or a comment for Rich,
give us a call at 812 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812
-638 -4261. Or you can call us on Skype. At least
tonight you can. uh... at ham talk live and and
hopefully will will figure out what what's going
to happen with that and uh... you can also tweet
us over at ham talk live on twitter as well and
uh... we're going to talk a little bit about
cq worldwide so while we're waiting on the calls
to come in here rich uh... let let's talk about
cq worldwide it sounds like we had similar experiences
we were able to to get on at different times,
though, but didn't get the whole weekend in.
But we were able to get on the air and make some
pretty good contacts. Yeah, you know, one of
the great things about contests is that they
really give you a demonstration of what the bands
truly are like at any given time. You know, this
we're at the bottom of the sunspot cycle right
now and Supposedly the upper HF bands are dead
don't even bother going there Except that during
contests Because you know when when I got on
Saturday morning I got on mid -morning 20 meters
was packed and I have a small lot here, and I
run 100 watts in a multi -band vertical, and
that's about all I can fit here. And I can't
compete with the bigger signals at the bottom
of the Sun -Sulbis cycle, in particular, when
on 20 meters, it just, I don't get through. I
went through the band once, made no contacts,
and said, I'm gonna try 15. even though it's
supposed to be dead. And, you know, I went up
to 15, and sure enough, there was only one signal
that I could hear on the band, but it was loud.
And it was Delta 4 Charlie in Cape Verde Islands.
That's 3 ,500 miles away from me. So this is
not a dead band when the only signal you hear
is from a station 3 ,500 miles away from you.
I worked him, so he heard me as well as I heard
him. and then started going up the band, and
as I was tuning up, I was hearing stations starting
to come up out of the noise. It's always one
of my favorite things in a contest is watching
a band wake up. When it wakes up to 3 ,500 miles,
it's not dead. And later on in the afternoon,
I had some very nice contacts on 10 meters, which,
you know... All the so -called experts will tell
you, oh, don't even bother with 10 meters and
anything except local contacts for the next four
years. Well, I worked all over Central and South
America and the Caribbean. No, I didn't work
Europe and Asia on 10 meters. It's all North
-South. But there was plenty of good DX to be
worked. I got every zone in Central and South
America except for zone 10. I think the Peruvians
were asleep. But there's plenty of DX out there.
Interesting question as to whether contests make
their own propagation. I'm going to be suggesting
in my December editorial, which I just finished
writing, that maybe that's a good topic for some
actual scientific research. We have the tools
for it with things like the Reverse Beacon Network
and Whisper. To actually see, my feeling is that
even at the bottom of the sunspot cycle, there
are openings. They may not be of as long duration
or as long distance as you get during better
parts of the cycle, but they're there. It's just
that there is kind of like, you know, what if
you gave a party and nobody came? Nobody's on
to know about the openings. They're either all
just listening. and not transmitting or they're
off on other bands. What happens during a contest
is the stations are there and they're transmitting.
So anytime there is an opening, somebody is there
to take advantage of it and other people hear
them and you have a lot of good DX going on.
It would be a fascinating thing to do a scientific
study of actual band openings that maybe nobody
knows about on the upper HF bands during the
bottom of the sunspot cycle My feeling is they're
there and we're just missing them because we're
not on the air calling CQ Well Nathaniel if you're
listening, maybe that's your next research topic
Once once this solar eclipse data is all processed.
Maybe you can grab a hold of some data on this
over at NJIT. But it sounds like we had kind
of a similar experience. I think I had, you know,
like you said, all the zones north to south,
but not much over toward Europe. But it was a
fun time. And talk a little bit about CQ's sponsorship
of that one? Well, we've been sponsoring the
CQ worldwide since the late 1940s. You know,
it's the biggest contest in the world. And in
fact, as far as we can figure out, it is the
largest participation sporting event that there
is. We get typically About 15 ,000 logs in each
of the CW and SSB contests and then there's all
the people they talk to Because not everyone
sends in a log but you will see close to a hundred
thousand different call signs show up in these
logs and There's really no other sporting event
that has that kind of participation in it and
of course We have the the unique capability on
radio For the participants in this event to be
scattered over the entire planet So it's it's
a tremendous opportunity to showcase What we
can do with ham radio? You know contesting is
part of CQ's blood has been from the beginning
that CQ worldwide is the Number one contest in
the world in terms of participation the CQ WPX
contest is number two We also have our RIDI contests
two of them CQ worldwide and WPX and our 160
meter contest and our VHF contest Our Fox hunting
weekend and the all -year long DX marathon, so
we encourage people to get on the air and operate,
do stuff, either competitively or just to work
your own, to compete against yourself perhaps,
if not against your friends and other hams. We
have a whole bunch of DX awards as well for various
accomplishments in terms of talking to a certain
number of Countries or counties we have the USA
counties award the DX field award for making
contacts with a certain number of grid fields,
which are the large, you know, like en is a field
and WPX award and The course that it worked all
zones award waz. That's the second oldest Award
program in amateur radio only behind worked all
continents. So From our earliest days CQ has
been promoting getting on the air having fun
Improving your skills and your station by competing
either with yourself or with others to Make the
most of the hobby and of your capabilities so
that when the time comes that your services are
needed to help other people, you're not just
starting to learn how to use the gear. You know
how to use it, you know what you can do with
it, you know what bands to be on, and you know
how to get a message through. And that's really
what all this is about, besides being fun. Yeah,
absolutely. KD9HQT chimes in here on chat. 15
meters always seems to be the least active band
since he gets S7 QRM, but today there's nothing
and then all of a sudden Spain shows up and got
him on one shot. So you just never know. You
throw your call out there and see what you get.
I mean, that's the marvels of HF propagation.
And you see it on 15, you see it on 10 and 12,
and sometimes on six, although six, you're dealing
with sporadic E more than F -layer propagation,
except during the peaks of the sunspot cycles.
That's the fun. You know, it's like fishing.
You cast your line out and you never know what's
going to bite. It may be nothing. or it may be
some very far away station and That's that's
the joy of ham radio to me Yeah, I agree eight
one two six three eight four two six one is the
phone number We're just about to finish up here.
So if you're gonna make a call do that right
now eight one two six three eight four two six
one and Rich remind everybody the The website
and how they can find CQ magazine in case they
want to read that that editorial about Contesters
making their own propagation that sounds intriguing
To me to read anyway, so I'm sure there's some
others our website is www .cq -amateur -radio
.com And remember to spell amateur correctly.
It's E -U -R, not U -E -R. And there you can
find ways to subscribe. Our editorials are always
on the website as well. This is the December
editorial, so it won't be up for another month
yet. And you can find out about subscribing to
our print edition, our digital edition. and all
sorts of other goodies. We've got calendars,
we've got books, we've got DVDs, lots of stuff.
And of course, Best Magazine. Of course. And
we've got another one of your... Your writers
coming on the show as he usually does He doesn't
wear the dr. Seuss hat when he's on the show
at least that I know of but But I know It's radio
so you never know Yep. Yep. You never know, but,
uh, Joe's going to be on here. I believe it's
in two weeks to talk about some, uh, kits for
the holidays. So we'll, we'll look forward to
Joe being on here and you can catch his kit building
article in the CQ magazine as well. Uh, we do
have another, uh, mention on the chat here. Uh,
Troy Simpson, W9KVR said, uh, we need, uh, During
school club roundup. We need to get some more
schools on so we can get some propagation. So
Maybe that would work like a good idea. Yeah
school club roundup was terrible propagation
absolutely terrible this year, but We still found
a way to to get some contacts and we finally
got through to Alaska that there's a school up
in Alaska dawn Gallon is up there KL 7 DG I think
is his call and he always tries to get on With
his school kids and after school. It's pretty
late for us over here in the Eastern time zone,
but We were able to finally pull it off after
four nights of horrible propagation So maybe
we need some more It would be good And let's
see Troy says we got on during sideband your
nine land record is safe. Okay. Good. I feel
better now Well rich thanks so much for coming
on the show it's always great to visit with you
it seems like We're both too busy at Dayton and
I hardly get to see you but Huntsville we usually
end up Getting to talk a little bit and it's
great to see you and Jason At Huntsville again
and look forward to seeing you again soon and
and thanks for coming on and you're welcome back
anytime My pleasure. I really enjoyed it and
look forward to next time All right. Well, that
is a wrap for this week's edition of HamTalk
Live. Thanks to Rich Moses and W2VU and everybody
out there in cyberspace for listening and calling
in. Oh, Joe's on next week. I invite you back
next Thursday night at 9 p .m. when Joe Eisenberg,
KZeroNEB, will be here to talk about kits for
the holidays. So if you want to know who the
upcoming guests are, just go to HamTalkLive .com
and you can click on the... Show schedule link
there and find out who's coming up next and if
you like ham talk live, please leave us a review
on face or on iTunes or Wherever you listen that
helps others find us faster and and you can like
us on Facebook and Twitter as well So this is
Neil rap WB 9 VPG for now saying seven three
seven five and may the good DX be yours Thanks
for watching!