WEBVTT 00:00:10.250 --> 00:00:12.970 Thanks for tuning in. HamTalk Live will be on 00:00:12.970 --> 00:00:30.910 the air shortly. Please stand by. Thanks for 00:00:30.910 --> 00:00:33.670 tuning in. HamTalk Live will be on the air shortly. 00:00:33.950 --> 00:00:42.990 Please stand by. This episode of HamTalk Live 00:00:42.990 --> 00:00:46.609 is brought to you by Tower Electronics. For connectors, 00:00:47.009 --> 00:00:52.469 cables, and more, call 920 -435 -2973 or visit 00:00:52.469 --> 00:00:58.350 pl -259 .com. And by ICOM, heard it, worked it, 00:00:58.609 --> 00:01:03.570 logged it. Visit www .icomamerica .com slash 00:01:03.570 --> 00:01:07.430 amateur for more information about ICOM radios. 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:41.900 Good evening, everyone. It's time for HamTalk 00:01:41.900 --> 00:01:46.799 Live. It's episode number 145, High Altitude 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.959 Ballooning, recorded live on Thursday, December 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:56.019 20th, 2018. I'm your host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. 00:01:56.459 --> 00:01:59.840 Thanks for tuning in to this episode of HamTalk 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:05.819 Live. Tonight, we're joined by Joshua W3ARD. 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.479 and we'll take your calls live in just a few 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:13.639 minutes. Last week, here on the show, Steve Nardussi, 00:02:13.659 --> 00:02:18.539 W9SN, and Fred Dennon, WW4LL were here to talk 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:22.909 about the Be Loud contest station build. if you 00:02:22.909 --> 00:02:24.990 missed that show you can listen anytime just 00:02:24.990 --> 00:02:28.550 go over to HamTalkLive .com or your favorite 00:02:28.550 --> 00:02:32.889 podcast app or YouTube and you can catch us there 00:02:32.889 --> 00:02:38.289 on the replays. Well some announcements coming 00:02:38.289 --> 00:02:43.710 up well actually already starting the 12 Days 00:02:43.710 --> 00:02:47.310 of Christmas special event station but starting 00:02:47.310 --> 00:02:52.379 tomorrow I'm going to jump in some the operators 00:02:52.379 --> 00:02:57.039 had some technical issues with LED Christmas 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:01.599 lights among other things making racket and so 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:04.960 I'm going to jump in and help out a little bit 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:09.199 on the special event so I'll be on HF tomorrow 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:13.180 after 3 p .m. Eastern for a while and then later 00:03:13.870 --> 00:03:17.469 on in the evening. I'll be back on as well and 00:03:17.469 --> 00:03:21.030 hope to also get a few satellite contacts this 00:03:21.030 --> 00:03:25.009 weekend with the special event for the 12 days 00:03:25.009 --> 00:03:31.310 of Christmas. tomorrow I know I'm W2M so I'll 00:03:31.310 --> 00:03:34.310 be one of the W2M operators and then we'll see 00:03:34.310 --> 00:03:37.669 we'll see what they give me after that but give 00:03:37.669 --> 00:03:41.310 me a call we'll spot on DX Summit and if you 00:03:41.310 --> 00:03:43.770 want more information about the 12 days of Christmas 00:03:43.770 --> 00:03:48.990 special event go to qrz .com and search either 00:03:48.990 --> 00:03:55.930 K2RYD or any of the call signs. Mine will be 00:03:55.930 --> 00:04:01.069 W2Mike, Whiskey2Mike. And they'll tell you about 00:04:01.069 --> 00:04:04.930 the beautiful certificate you can get in all 00:04:04.930 --> 00:04:08.349 the 12 days of Christmas stations. And that's 00:04:08.349 --> 00:04:11.629 going to culminate on a Christmas birthday special 00:04:11.629 --> 00:04:16.649 event on December 25th. You can check out K2B, 00:04:16.649 --> 00:04:21.589 K2Bravo on QRZ .com about that, but they're celebrating 00:04:21.589 --> 00:04:25.629 people who have birthdays on Christmas Day or 00:04:25.629 --> 00:04:29.319 any of the holidays around this time. New Year's, 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:33.259 whatever. So check that out. But the event will 00:04:33.259 --> 00:04:37.439 be on December 25th. So check that out. That's 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:41.779 K2 Bravo. And then one other on -air thing going 00:04:41.779 --> 00:04:44.459 on. NASA on the air. We've talked about it on 00:04:44.459 --> 00:04:48.600 this show a couple of times. And that is ending 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:54.019 here in a week. So that ends on December 27th 00:04:54.019 --> 00:04:57.560 with the Apollo 8 50th anniversary celebration. 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:01.980 So be sure to check out NASA radio clubs on Facebook 00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:06.379 and Twitter and nasaontheair .wordpress .com 00:05:06.379 --> 00:05:08.959 for more information about that, but you've got 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:15.029 a week to get your last points. for NASA on the 00:05:15.029 --> 00:05:17.949 air so make sure you check that out. Okay well 00:05:17.949 --> 00:05:20.209 we're going to talk high altitude ballooning 00:05:20.209 --> 00:05:23.889 tonight so get those questions ready to go. We'll 00:05:23.889 --> 00:05:26.089 talk to Josh for a little bit then we'll take 00:05:26.089 --> 00:05:28.810 a break and then we'll come back and open up 00:05:28.810 --> 00:05:30.649 the phone lines but I'll go ahead and give you 00:05:30.649 --> 00:05:32.509 the phone number so you have it written down 00:05:32.509 --> 00:05:39.139 and have it all ready to go. It's 812 NET ham 00:05:39.139 --> 00:05:43.500 one that's eight one two six three eight four 00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:47.480 two six one that's how you can call in to participate 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:50.699 into the show tonight we'll also take tweets 00:05:50.699 --> 00:05:53.899 so if you're on twitter you can tweet us it's 00:05:53.899 --> 00:05:57.759 just at ham talk live on twitter and we'll be 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.360 checking that from time to time and i'll be back 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:03.319 with josh right after this word from tower electronics 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:09.410 right here on ham talk live I'm sorry to bother 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:11.790 you, but I'm having an antenna party and I ran 00:06:11.790 --> 00:06:15.649 out of PL259s. Oh, come in. Thank you. Would 00:06:15.649 --> 00:06:19.290 silver -plated PL259s from Tower Electronics 00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:22.329 be too good for your guests? Those will be fine. 00:06:22.490 --> 00:06:25.920 Thank you. You saved my life the other night. 00:06:26.459 --> 00:06:30.079 Oh, the PL -259s from Tower Electronics? Yes, 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:32.399 they were very successful at the antenna party. 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:36.060 My antenna works like a charm. Then how can you 00:06:36.060 --> 00:06:38.540 ever thank me? I'll try to think of something. 00:06:38.860 --> 00:06:42.120 Don't be caught without PL -259s. Visit Tower 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:44.980 Electronics at a ham fest near you or visit them 00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:50.439 online anytime at PL -259 .com or call 920 -435 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:54.310 -2973. They have adapters, cables, antennas, 00:06:54.569 --> 00:06:57.569 soldering supplies and meters too. If Denny's 00:06:57.569 --> 00:07:01.930 is open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, why 00:07:01.930 --> 00:07:04.949 are there locks on the doors? Now, here's Neil 00:07:04.949 --> 00:07:18.379 Rapp with more HamTalk Live. Thanks to Scott 00:07:18.379 --> 00:07:20.759 and Gillette Tower Electronics for sponsoring 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:25.620 the show as they always do. And they're on a 00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:28.560 little break here of the Hamfest circuit, but 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.199 they'll be back starting on January 5th. It's 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:36.079 Waukesha, I think is how Paul told me how to 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:39.759 pronounce that, Wisconsin. And then January 18th 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:42.959 and 19th will be in Fort Myers, Florida. January 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:48.759 19th, St. Charles, Illinois. January 26th, one 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:50.399 of them, I don't know which one's going where, 00:07:50.540 --> 00:07:53.259 but one's being Collinsville, Illinois, and the 00:07:53.259 --> 00:07:56.100 other one Arcadia, Florida. But you can always 00:07:56.100 --> 00:08:02.620 visit them at PL -259 .com even tonight. So if 00:08:02.620 --> 00:08:06.420 you need some last -minute gifts, just go over 00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:10.870 there to PL -259. dot com and tell them Neil 00:08:10.870 --> 00:08:13.009 over at HamTalk Live sent you and they'll give 00:08:13.009 --> 00:08:17.189 you the special 0 % off sale. Well, Josh Ward 00:08:17.189 --> 00:08:22.370 is with us tonight. W3 ARD. He is in Waco, Texas 00:08:22.370 --> 00:08:25.569 and no, he doesn't have any connection to the 00:08:25.569 --> 00:08:28.689 branch to Davidians, nor does he know Chip and 00:08:28.689 --> 00:08:32.740 Joanna, but Josh enjoys working satellites and 00:08:32.740 --> 00:08:36.840 APRS high altitude balloons. And he's our resident 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.960 late night operator on the satellites typically 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.600 in one of the contributors to the Walmart parking 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:46.419 lots on the air events. And he was on this show 00:08:46.419 --> 00:08:50.059 for that. He has his pilot's license and as a 00:08:50.059 --> 00:08:52.799 technology consultant for the Baylor University 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:56.860 School of Business. So Josh, welcome back to 00:08:56.860 --> 00:09:00.360 HamTalk Live. Welcome. Thank you very much, Neil. 00:09:00.460 --> 00:09:03.019 Glad to be back on. I'm not sure about contributor. 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.399 I think maybe co -conspirator. Conspirator might 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:08.639 have been... I think that's probably the better 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:11.320 way to put it. Yeah. It may have been more accurate, 00:09:11.700 --> 00:09:15.299 I think. Right. But we had a lot of fun with 00:09:15.299 --> 00:09:18.279 that. We may have to see... We haven't had one 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:21.299 of those in a while. We may have to bring that 00:09:21.299 --> 00:09:24.740 back. Yeah. Well, we're going to have to... Talk 00:09:24.740 --> 00:09:26.679 to Chris and some of the other guys on that one. 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:28.860 Um, but yeah, that was fun, right? The very beginning 00:09:28.860 --> 00:09:33.240 of may. Well, we're talking about something else 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.440 that's fun and that's a blowing up balloons and 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.460 launch them in the near space. So, uh, let's 00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:43.899 talk about the basics of launching one of these 00:09:43.899 --> 00:09:49.139 high altitude balloons and it is a radio show. 00:09:49.929 --> 00:09:53.830 So we can't say, well, if you look at this diagram 00:09:53.830 --> 00:09:59.850 right here, you know, so if you can, Josh has 00:09:59.850 --> 00:10:03.110 got some stuff up on his website. It's starduster 00:10:03.110 --> 00:10:07.809 .info and we just tweeted out a link and sent 00:10:07.809 --> 00:10:12.809 out a Facebook link to that page. But if you 00:10:12.809 --> 00:10:15.110 just go to starduster .info, you can look at 00:10:15.110 --> 00:10:18.570 some of the pictures and visuals, if you want 00:10:18.570 --> 00:10:23.669 to. He's going to try to explain everything verbally, 00:10:23.809 --> 00:10:25.830 but if you want some pictures to go along with 00:10:25.830 --> 00:10:28.269 it, just hop on over there while you're listening. 00:10:29.490 --> 00:10:31.850 Josh, go ahead and let's talk about the basics 00:10:31.850 --> 00:10:36.269 of high -altitude ballooning. Sure thing. Well, 00:10:36.350 --> 00:10:39.230 to start with, high -altitude ballooning is actually 00:10:39.230 --> 00:10:41.990 the reason I got into amateur radio to begin 00:10:41.990 --> 00:10:46.620 with. People have been doing this for you know 00:10:46.620 --> 00:10:50.240 years and years and years. I've seen Other attempts 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:52.779 you can go to tons of websites and kind of see 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:55.840 how other people do it I would love to fancy 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:57.720 myself as a kind of person that could you know 00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:01.320 redo cars and you know gut a house and redo interiors 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:04.480 of houses, but You know there's always something 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:06.080 about it something there that you know would 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:08.320 kind of stump me or stop me my tracks and I kind 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.980 of know my limits but as I started looking at 00:11:10.980 --> 00:11:14.909 the concept of sending balloons into near space, 00:11:15.009 --> 00:11:17.870 you know, 80, 90, 100 ,000 feet. As I stepped 00:11:17.870 --> 00:11:19.750 through it, I realized that pretty much the whole 00:11:19.750 --> 00:11:22.750 project was right in my wheelhouse of photography 00:11:22.750 --> 00:11:26.370 and being a pilot, stepping through the aviation 00:11:26.370 --> 00:11:30.230 side and the winds aloft and path prediction 00:11:30.230 --> 00:11:34.250 and all that kind of stuff. So I kind of thought 00:11:34.250 --> 00:11:37.809 about doing it for a year or two. And then I 00:11:37.809 --> 00:11:40.389 guess it's been about four years. I went ahead 00:11:40.389 --> 00:11:42.539 and committed to You know, I'm gonna go ahead 00:11:42.539 --> 00:11:45.259 and do this knew that it was not the cheapest 00:11:45.259 --> 00:11:48.639 hobby to get into And so I just went actually 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:52.580 went to Kickstarter Mostly as a more legitimate 00:11:52.580 --> 00:11:54.940 way to collect funds from friends, you know, 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:56.700 you can talk about it at lunch and somebody will 00:11:56.700 --> 00:11:59.320 say oh, yeah I'll give you 40 bucks, but then 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:02.200 to go to actually make the ask it was a whole 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:05.279 lot easier to go to Kickstarter and look for 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:07.779 funding, which is actually the reason that I 00:12:07.779 --> 00:12:11.639 have the starduster .info website is I kept up 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:15.799 the project updates in parallel on my website 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:18.419 as I was doing updates to the original Kickstarter 00:12:18.419 --> 00:12:22.740 backers four years ago. So if you step over to 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:25.059 that website, you can kind of see the progress 00:12:25.059 --> 00:12:29.320 of a build as we go. You know, whenever people 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:32.259 see the pictures, immediately you see the curvature 00:12:32.259 --> 00:12:34.419 of the earth and you see the blackness of space 00:12:34.419 --> 00:12:36.779 and everybody always says, hey, you know, you 00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:39.220 send balloons to space. And the answer is not 00:12:39.220 --> 00:12:43.820 exactly. You know, we're above 99 .97 % of the 00:12:43.820 --> 00:12:46.720 atmosphere. We're approaching a hard vacuum. 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.539 But legally, space doesn't begin until 60 miles. 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:52.879 I know there's astronauts that get wings at 50 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:56.019 miles. You know, we're not even breaching 20 00:12:56.019 --> 00:13:00.389 miles. The pictures are compelling they're convincing, 00:13:00.389 --> 00:13:02.889 but that's why I go to my out of my way to say 00:13:02.889 --> 00:13:08.250 near space You know so Got into the hobby about 00:13:08.250 --> 00:13:11.990 four years ago each launch has gotten increment 00:13:11.990 --> 00:13:16.769 incrementally more complex and difficult learning 00:13:16.769 --> 00:13:19.950 curve I don't launch balloons as often as some 00:13:19.950 --> 00:13:21.809 folks. I know some people that do it monthly. 00:13:21.809 --> 00:13:25.210 Some people have made a career out of career 00:13:25.210 --> 00:13:28.289 out of it I just enjoy taking it piece by piece, 00:13:28.450 --> 00:13:31.590 sort of step by step. My first launch I ever 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:34.529 did, I did not fly with APRS, I was not licensed, 00:13:34.990 --> 00:13:37.909 and I got away with two GoPro cameras and a little 00:13:37.909 --> 00:13:42.149 backpacking GPS tracking device, a little Spot 00:13:42.149 --> 00:13:45.710 Gen 3 device. But then very quickly realized 00:13:45.710 --> 00:13:48.529 that getting into amateur radio and tracking 00:13:48.529 --> 00:13:53.500 with APRS was gonna be... Much much better option 00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:57.759 for more real -time tracking Which is actually 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:00.179 the reason that I have the vanity call sign the 00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:03.059 whiskey three alpha Romeo Delta. I live in five 00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:05.980 land But at the time I didn't think I was ever 00:14:05.980 --> 00:14:07.940 really gonna be talking on the radio I just got 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:10.899 the license because I wanted to do a PRS and 00:14:10.899 --> 00:14:14.139 then realized I enjoyed the satellite aspects 00:14:14.139 --> 00:14:17.779 of the hobby and so now I'm a confusing vanity 00:14:17.779 --> 00:14:22.129 three living in five land here in Texas But but 00:14:22.129 --> 00:14:24.909 on your Twitter you you kind of clarified that 00:14:24.909 --> 00:14:29.529 with stroke. Yeah, right, right? Yeah W3 ARDE 00:14:29.529 --> 00:14:32.909 spelled out stroke five. I think somebody else 00:14:32.909 --> 00:14:35.990 was sitting on the Twitter handle W3 ARD So I 00:14:35.990 --> 00:14:38.909 had to get creative and append it with some extra 00:14:38.909 --> 00:14:43.549 information Yeah, what all you do you need to 00:14:43.549 --> 00:14:47.070 get one of these? launches going, and then we'll 00:14:47.070 --> 00:14:50.610 get into some of the specifics of the ham stuff, 00:14:50.889 --> 00:14:54.230 but what are you going to need to make this thing 00:14:54.230 --> 00:14:58.009 fly? So the, um, I mean, first and foremost, 00:14:58.009 --> 00:14:59.629 if you're going to do high altitude balloons, 00:14:59.629 --> 00:15:01.889 you're probably going to have a balloon. Um, 00:15:02.190 --> 00:15:05.809 I would make, yeah, I purchased my balloons from 00:15:05.809 --> 00:15:09.529 a K -Mont. Um, there are other folks that'll 00:15:09.529 --> 00:15:11.929 sell you balloons, but I usually fly K -Mont 00:15:11.929 --> 00:15:17.269 and I will fly a 12. 100 or a 1500 gram balloon 00:15:17.269 --> 00:15:20.809 When you purchase a 12 or 1500 gram balloon, 00:15:20.830 --> 00:15:23.889 that's actually how much the balloon itself weighs 00:15:23.889 --> 00:15:27.990 so 1500 gram balloon is over three pounds of 00:15:27.990 --> 00:15:31.250 latex. I mean the balloon itself is over three 00:15:31.250 --> 00:15:35.909 pounds six foot diameter approximately at launch 00:15:35.909 --> 00:15:39.549 and as it climbs and expands They'll climb out 00:15:39.549 --> 00:15:42.870 to 28 or 32 feet in diameter and then they'll 00:15:42.870 --> 00:15:47.220 fail at a very prescribed diameter, which is 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:49.419 good because you want the balloons to fail. You 00:15:49.419 --> 00:15:51.639 need them to fail because you want your stuff 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:54.820 to come back down for recovery. But the balloons 00:15:54.820 --> 00:16:00.220 run anywhere from 95 to maybe 110, $120 a piece. 00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:07.679 Helium, a 2000 PSI cylinder, 219 cubic feet of 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.169 helium. Depends on the time of year depends on 00:16:10.169 --> 00:16:12.269 the you're gonna run you anywhere from 130 to 00:16:12.269 --> 00:16:17.769 160 apiece. So you're already 250 to 280 dollars 00:16:17.769 --> 00:16:21.610 Just into the first launch and that's just with 00:16:21.610 --> 00:16:26.570 the the balloon and the helium Depending on what 00:16:26.570 --> 00:16:28.970 you want to carry if you want to carry cameras 00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:33.840 there are people that work with Raspberry Pi 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:38.259 and small cameras that do everything on board. 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:42.940 The, you know, the fast solution is to, you know, 00:16:43.059 --> 00:16:46.179 buy GoPro or some type of other camera that is, 00:16:46.179 --> 00:16:50.639 you know, built and kind of proven already. I 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:54.639 will say that the video that you shoot at whether 00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:59.259 it's 1080 or 4K is beautiful video, but video 00:16:59.259 --> 00:17:03.070 because it's, you know, 10 ,080 lines of resolution 00:17:03.070 --> 00:17:05.589 doesn't make for good photos. If you're trying 00:17:05.589 --> 00:17:09.230 to make beautiful photos, and I'm always interested 00:17:09.230 --> 00:17:13.869 in the photos, I usually will fly a camera with 00:17:13.869 --> 00:17:16.630 video and then I dedicate at least one camera 00:17:16.630 --> 00:17:19.710 to taking photos, 10 or 12 megapixel photos. 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.200 once per second or something to that effect. 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:27.640 So I would advise if you want beautiful photos, 00:17:27.819 --> 00:17:30.420 consider that video doesn't actually make great 00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:33.440 photos, which is why I fly more than one camera. 00:17:34.460 --> 00:17:39.940 And then you absolutely can buy styrofoam containers. 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:44.039 I tend to like a more elegant, I jokingly say 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:48.119 that my hobby is, I work with elegantly engineered 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:53.130 beer coolers. I prefer I prefer not to take a 00:17:53.130 --> 00:17:55.269 cooler from scratch from the store because I 00:17:55.269 --> 00:17:58.930 like to get inside the cooler and build out Space 00:17:58.930 --> 00:18:01.390 for the camera and the batteries and stuff. I 00:18:01.390 --> 00:18:03.890 typically will go to a craft store and buy a 00:18:03.890 --> 00:18:07.490 flat sheet of styrofoam Take a hot knife like 00:18:07.490 --> 00:18:10.789 a wire cutter and actually cut them to spec cut 00:18:10.789 --> 00:18:14.500 them to shape and then build up the four walls 00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:18.180 and the base. I like a little bit more elegant 00:18:18.180 --> 00:18:22.559 solution. But you're constantly watching weight. 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.680 You're constantly watching not necessarily down 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.220 to the gram, although I do measure with a gram 00:18:28.220 --> 00:18:34.220 scale. There is a direct correlation to how much 00:18:34.220 --> 00:18:37.660 helium goes into the balloon. We use the term 00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:41.789 free lift. So if the balloon can lift itself 00:18:41.789 --> 00:18:44.950 and the balloon can lift your payload exactly 00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:47.390 neutral and the balloon's not going anywhere, 00:18:48.349 --> 00:18:50.750 any amount of helium you add beyond that is what 00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:53.910 we would call free lift. And there's kind of 00:18:53.910 --> 00:18:57.230 a prescribed way of doing it where I know with 00:18:57.230 --> 00:19:01.450 my payloads, if I fly with 850 grams of free 00:19:01.450 --> 00:19:05.470 lift, I can realize about 750 feet per minute 00:19:05.470 --> 00:19:09.430 of ascent. So whenever you're trying to do prediction 00:19:09.430 --> 00:19:12.150 on where the balloon's going to go, a lot of 00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:14.329 your prediction is going to be based on having 00:19:14.329 --> 00:19:16.630 a knowledge of how quickly the balloon's going 00:19:16.630 --> 00:19:19.450 to ascend so that you can plug it into a wind 00:19:19.450 --> 00:19:22.930 model. Some people think, hey, I'll add more 00:19:22.930 --> 00:19:25.269 helium and we'll go higher. And the answer is 00:19:25.269 --> 00:19:29.009 actually not. If you add more helium to the balloon, 00:19:29.589 --> 00:19:33.230 the helium will expand quicker and exhaust the 00:19:33.230 --> 00:19:36.299 envelope of the balloon. So more helium. might 00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:38.900 get you ascending quicker, but your balloon will 00:19:38.900 --> 00:19:43.400 fail and burst sooner. So, you know, if you have 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.420 an objective of I want to make 90 ,000 feet or 00:19:46.420 --> 00:19:50.400 I want to make 100 ,000 feet, there's a lot of 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.000 math that you kind of have to work behind the 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.359 scenes to get all of that right. But, you know, 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:58.059 in the grand scheme of things, helium balloon, 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:06.910 some long cables, I guess, we use twine. beer 00:20:06.910 --> 00:20:10.710 cooler, a couple of cameras, and then some method 00:20:10.710 --> 00:20:13.309 with which to track it and then recover your 00:20:13.309 --> 00:20:16.930 payloads. Some people use backpacking trackers 00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:23.289 like the Spot Gen 3. APRS is great while you're 00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:27.529 actually aloft, but if APRS lands out in the 00:20:27.529 --> 00:20:30.190 middle of a field and you're not getting digiped 00:20:30.190 --> 00:20:34.309 or you're not getting eye gated, that can be 00:20:34.309 --> 00:20:36.829 kind of rough. So some folks will do like a fox 00:20:36.829 --> 00:20:39.549 hunt, they'll have some type of transmitter on 00:20:39.549 --> 00:20:41.529 a frequency that they're using Yagi's to find 00:20:41.529 --> 00:20:46.650 out the final location. Or if you have like a 00:20:46.650 --> 00:20:49.009 Kenwood or any of the handheld radios or car 00:20:49.009 --> 00:20:52.109 based radios that have APRS built in, if you're 00:20:52.109 --> 00:20:54.089 in close proximity, you might can even sniff 00:20:54.089 --> 00:20:57.309 out your own APRS packet, which is luckily kind 00:20:57.309 --> 00:21:00.380 of how I've been able to do it. I use APRS in 00:21:00.380 --> 00:21:02.660 the air and I take advantage of the distributed 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:05.660 APRS receivers that all of you fine ham folks 00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:09.420 have And then for the final final fix. I usually 00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:14.539 rely on the GPS tracker the the satellite based 00:21:14.539 --> 00:21:16.680 tracking for like a backpacking tracker for the 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:22.799 final final fix Okay, very good and lots of software 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:28.190 there too, I'm sure and Let's talk a little bit 00:21:28.190 --> 00:21:31.569 because we're running out of time here Let's 00:21:31.569 --> 00:21:35.210 run through a little bit about crossband repeating 00:21:35.210 --> 00:21:42.349 and and getting that APRS signal going Sure, 00:21:42.509 --> 00:21:46.829 so on the crossband repeat side I probably most 00:21:46.829 --> 00:21:49.410 most folks know what crossband repeat is but 00:21:49.410 --> 00:21:51.769 on a terrestrial based repeater You can live 00:21:51.769 --> 00:21:55.369 entirely on two meter or entirely on 70 centimeter 00:21:58.170 --> 00:22:00.849 But with a balloon, you don't have the power 00:22:00.849 --> 00:22:03.589 and you don't have the weight to be able to operate 00:22:03.589 --> 00:22:06.289 on the same band. So we work with a crossband 00:22:06.289 --> 00:22:08.670 repeater, which is almost identical to what you 00:22:08.670 --> 00:22:11.829 would have on the amateur satellites, on the 00:22:11.829 --> 00:22:15.690 FM side at least. And so, you know, people do 00:22:15.690 --> 00:22:19.289 solutions that are as simple, it's a little bit 00:22:19.289 --> 00:22:21.109 more complicated, but they're as simple as like 00:22:21.109 --> 00:22:25.150 two handheld, like, Bofanger radios. where essentially 00:22:25.150 --> 00:22:30.710 you take the headphone jack from one radio on 00:22:30.710 --> 00:22:33.150 a receive frequency and basically get it wired 00:22:33.150 --> 00:22:36.849 into the microphone jack of the other radio on 00:22:36.849 --> 00:22:39.670 the other band. So you might have one tuned to 00:22:39.670 --> 00:22:42.769 a two meter frequency and one tuned to a 70 centimeter 00:22:42.769 --> 00:22:46.930 frequency. And as you talk on the two meter, 00:22:47.210 --> 00:22:50.490 it basically activates the downlink on the other 00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:53.630 bow fang. uh... there are a lot of the way we 00:22:53.630 --> 00:22:59.210 have we have to pause because you said the word 00:22:59.210 --> 00:23:02.349 balfang we had to play the the balance on so 00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:06.690 understand okay go ahead oh no problem uh... 00:23:06.690 --> 00:23:09.970 i'm i'm tracking a video yeah the other i don't 00:23:09.970 --> 00:23:11.569 know if you have a song for this one but you 00:23:11.569 --> 00:23:13.630 know the other option is uh... there are handhelds 00:23:13.630 --> 00:23:16.009 that actually have uh... crossband repeat built 00:23:16.009 --> 00:23:19.690 -in t y t eight thousand e i believe is one uh... 00:23:20.029 --> 00:23:23.430 So you could fly an all -in -one. And then there's 00:23:23.430 --> 00:23:27.569 other solutions. Like I said, people fly Raspberry 00:23:27.569 --> 00:23:30.710 Pi with special software that actually will function 00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:34.049 as a crossband repeater. Odds are you probably 00:23:34.049 --> 00:23:35.569 really, really want to do something that you 00:23:35.569 --> 00:23:41.829 can inject repeater ID tones into. If you're 00:23:41.829 --> 00:23:43.849 going to fly a repeater, probably kind of need 00:23:43.849 --> 00:23:46.410 to live by the rules of a repeater IDing itself 00:23:46.410 --> 00:23:49.920 since you're not in local control of it. I do 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:52.900 tend to ID the repeater through voice, but if 00:23:52.900 --> 00:23:56.660 you lost control of the repeater, you know, having 00:23:56.660 --> 00:24:00.000 ID tones to be legal is kind of the way to go. 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:04.319 So on the APRS side, one of the things that's 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:06.880 kind of interesting, but people don't know, GPS, 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.220 most GPS that you buy will stop reporting above 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:15.430 60 ,000 feet. The government is not too keen 00:24:15.430 --> 00:24:21.230 on GPS that reports above 60 ,000 feet and faster 00:24:21.230 --> 00:24:25.650 than 999 knots. Having one that does both I think 00:24:25.650 --> 00:24:29.470 is considered a munition. So you can find GPS, 00:24:29.609 --> 00:24:32.210 but a lot of them won't report above 60 ,000. 00:24:32.230 --> 00:24:33.710 So if you're gonna fly a balloon, you need to 00:24:33.710 --> 00:24:36.680 make sure that your GPS receiver... will report 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:39.720 above 60 ,000 feet or you're gonna be kind of 00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:42.240 in the dark for that hour, hour and a half that 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:46.700 it's above that level. But APRS, you definitely 00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:50.539 want a transmit only. If you have a transmitter 00:24:50.539 --> 00:24:54.279 receiver for APRS, your APRS is gonna get every 00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:57.400 single packet for like a 700 mile radius and 00:24:57.400 --> 00:24:59.779 it's never gonna be able to get a word in and 00:24:59.779 --> 00:25:03.019 send its information back down. So you want one 00:25:03.019 --> 00:25:06.079 that's really doing transmit only. and you want 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:10.039 your path basically to do absolutely no repeat 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:15.000 whatsoever, or you're not asking DigiPeters to 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.500 repeat your packet, because with a 700 mile footprint, 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.019 whenever you have hundreds of APRS receivers, 00:25:23.740 --> 00:25:28.279 if they all are repeating your packet, you basically 00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:31.180 have choked out the network about once per minute, 00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:35.259 and that's very rude of you. You need to pay 00:25:35.259 --> 00:25:41.640 attention to APRS path, transmit only, no repeat, 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:46.759 and having a radio in the car that'll do that 00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.200 packet translation is very, very handy because 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.420 if a balloon is tracking across the country like 00:25:52.420 --> 00:25:54.940 in Texas, you may be in areas where there's not 00:25:54.940 --> 00:25:58.250 good cell connectivity and... If you don't have 00:25:58.250 --> 00:26:00.309 good cell connectivity, you can't necessarily 00:26:00.309 --> 00:26:03.430 get to APRS .FI to even find out where the balloon 00:26:03.430 --> 00:26:06.809 is. So having something mobile in the car where 00:26:06.809 --> 00:26:10.990 you are able to receive your own packets is highly 00:26:10.990 --> 00:26:20.079 suggested. Very good. We've got some messaging 00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:24.099 going on here, so I had to attend to that for 00:26:24.099 --> 00:26:28.140 a minute, but that's some general things. There's 00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:31.460 a lot of detail that we could get into, and maybe 00:26:31.460 --> 00:26:36.470 we will here in a few weeks actually. There's 00:26:36.470 --> 00:26:39.829 a lot of detail, but that gives us a general 00:26:39.829 --> 00:26:42.970 kind of overview of what's going on which was 00:26:42.970 --> 00:26:47.789 our goal for tonight, so That sounds sounds good, 00:26:47.789 --> 00:26:51.769 and we're gonna Take a break here, and then we're 00:26:51.769 --> 00:26:56.829 gonna come back. We're gonna talk about The tracking 00:26:56.829 --> 00:26:59.789 here a little bit more and we're gonna take your 00:26:59.789 --> 00:27:03.529 questions and your phone calls here on the show. 00:27:03.589 --> 00:27:06.190 So we'll get a chance to do that and I'll be 00:27:06.190 --> 00:27:09.309 back with Josh right after this word from Icom 00:27:09.309 --> 00:27:12.960 America right here on HamTalk Live. For the love 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.920 of the holidays, surprise your favorite ham this 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.319 season with the gift that's on their hot list. 00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:21.059 The holidays are just around the corner and ICOM 00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:25.599 has plenty of cheer for everyone. The IC7610, 00:27:25.660 --> 00:27:29.079 the SDR every ham wants and just in time for 00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:32.200 the holidays. This high performance SDR has the 00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:34.940 ability to pick out the faintest of signals, 00:27:35.059 --> 00:27:38.039 even in the presence of stronger adjacent ones. 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:42.319 The ICOM IC7610 is a direct sampling. software 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:45.119 -defined radio that will change the world's definition 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:48.700 of an SDR transceiver. It has RF direct sampling, 00:27:49.099 --> 00:27:54.279 110 dB RMDR, and dual -digit cell. The IC7300 00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:57.220 is changing the way entry -level HF is designed. 00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:00.059 This high -performance, innovative HF transceiver 00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:03.960 with a compact design will far exceed your expectations. 00:28:04.299 --> 00:28:08.420 It includes RF direct sampling, 15 discrete bandpass 00:28:08.420 --> 00:28:11.779 filters, a large 4 .3 -inch color screen, real 00:28:11.779 --> 00:28:14.880 -time spectrum scope, and SD memory card slot. 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.180 The ICR30 is raising the bar on DC to daylight 00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:22.859 receivers. Powerful yet easy to use, the ICR30 00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:25.519 is packed full of features you have come to expect 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:28.680 from ICOM. The perfect stocking stuffer, the 00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:31.960 ID51A Plus 2 provides new modes for extended 00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:35.400 D -Star coverage. Enjoy integrated GPS, independent 00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:38.910 AM FM receiver, and free Android apps. For all 00:28:38.910 --> 00:28:41.829 of these products and more ICOM radios, visit 00:28:41.829 --> 00:28:45.789 icomamerica .com slash amateur for more information. 00:28:46.730 --> 00:28:49.789 Join the conversation. Give us a call at 812 00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:56.170 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812 -638 -4261. Now, here's 00:28:56.170 --> 00:29:05.990 more HamTalk Live. All I want for Christmas is 00:29:05.990 --> 00:29:10.869 to listen to another episode of HamTalk Live. 00:29:18.869 --> 00:29:21.990 Thanks to iCom America for sponsoring the show 00:29:21.990 --> 00:29:26.549 and all kinds of great iCom deals through the 00:29:26.549 --> 00:29:29.190 end of the year. So make sure you take advantage 00:29:29.190 --> 00:29:33.160 of those. And HamTalk Live is on the air every 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.000 Thursday night at 9 p .m. Eastern Time right 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.500 here at HamTalkLive .com. And be sure to check 00:29:39.500 --> 00:29:43.660 us out on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And 00:29:43.660 --> 00:29:47.420 it's time for your calls. So if you have a question 00:29:47.420 --> 00:29:51.759 for Josh, give us a call. It's 812 -NET -HAM 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:58.279 -1. That's 812 -638 -4261. Or you can tweet us. 00:29:58.589 --> 00:30:06.509 It's at HamTalk Live on Twitter. So I know we've 00:30:06.509 --> 00:30:11.150 got a friend of the show here, Bill Brown, that's 00:30:11.150 --> 00:30:13.829 done a lot of this stuff and we've been talking 00:30:13.829 --> 00:30:15.950 to him today and we're planning on having him 00:30:15.950 --> 00:30:21.539 on the show here. And maybe a month or so we'll 00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:24.359 get that all put together and he can get into 00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:27.720 some of the details here. But one of the things 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:32.839 on APRS tracking is, you know, how do you watch 00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:39.940 that and track those satellite or pseudo satellites? 00:30:41.500 --> 00:30:45.960 How do you get the tracking so that you can chase 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:53.460 this thing down? Right, so if I'm at the house 00:30:53.460 --> 00:30:56.480 and want to see what's going on, I use aprs .fi. 00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:59.839 I mean, you can just go to the website aprs .fi. 00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:05.140 That's it, right? APRS .FI. And then search against 00:31:05.140 --> 00:31:08.339 whatever license you have to be flying. I usually 00:31:08.339 --> 00:31:12.180 fly W3 ARD. And then it's appended with dash 00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:15.460 11 for the balloon. So I will search against 00:31:15.460 --> 00:31:20.380 that. And however long it takes the system to 00:31:20.380 --> 00:31:23.779 gate my packet, so within 30 seconds or so, I'm 00:31:23.779 --> 00:31:27.509 getting position data. I have my transmitter 00:31:27.509 --> 00:31:31.490 once per minute. You absolutely could go less 00:31:31.490 --> 00:31:33.190 than that. I mean, you could, you know, do every 00:31:33.190 --> 00:31:36.609 five or 10 minutes. You know, if you're trying 00:31:36.609 --> 00:31:40.170 to go real, real super low power, you know, like 00:31:40.170 --> 00:31:43.710 Bill would be doing, you know, that may be 15 00:31:43.710 --> 00:31:46.450 minutes to once an hour if you're really trying 00:31:46.450 --> 00:31:50.789 to conserve power. I'm not endorsing Apple products. 00:31:50.849 --> 00:31:54.670 I use an iPhone. Their APRS .FI app is a great 00:31:54.670 --> 00:31:58.130 app. that allows me to track in real time. The 00:31:58.130 --> 00:32:00.230 thing I also like about that particular app on 00:32:00.230 --> 00:32:03.869 my phone is it does a very good job of graphing 00:32:03.869 --> 00:32:06.930 sort of what little telemetry you've got. So 00:32:06.930 --> 00:32:10.710 you can see the ascent of the balloon as it's 00:32:10.710 --> 00:32:13.769 climbing and you can see how rapidly it is descending. 00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:17.720 So, you know, you've got a kind of a sense of 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:20.720 what's going on And so since I've said that kind 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.039 of a segue into another point that I find a little 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:26.779 bit interesting When in this blew my mind the 00:32:26.779 --> 00:32:29.579 first time I saw it on the graph and I've included 00:32:29.579 --> 00:32:33.579 that graph on the starduster .info website if 00:32:33.579 --> 00:32:37.319 you go there The balloon actually climbs at a 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:41.039 near linear rate I always thought maybe that 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.619 it accelerated on the way up, or it decelerated 00:32:43.619 --> 00:32:45.839 on the way up. If the balloon is filled right, 00:32:46.059 --> 00:32:47.880 it climbs at almost the same rate, no matter 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:51.559 what the wind, however the wind is pushing it, 00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:55.680 it is climbing at the same rate. So 750 feet 00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:59.359 a minute, or 500 feet per minute. So that rate 00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.240 looks very linear on the graph. Of course, when 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:05.440 the balloon bursts, there is no air, or there's 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:09.410 so scarce amount of air, that the balloon begins 00:33:09.410 --> 00:33:13.930 to accelerate gravity at 9 .8 meters per second 00:33:13.930 --> 00:33:18.509 squared. The balloon descends very rapidly because 00:33:18.509 --> 00:33:20.730 there's nothing to slow it down until it gets 00:33:20.730 --> 00:33:23.670 into denser and denser and denser air. So when 00:33:23.670 --> 00:33:26.890 the balloon bursts, it can accelerate up to 180 00:33:26.890 --> 00:33:34.180 to maybe 230 miles per hour. it's coming downhill 00:33:34.180 --> 00:33:37.019 until it can get into denser and denser air and 00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:39.119 the parachute or the drogue shoot becomes more 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:41.839 and more effective One of the other things that 00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:44.079 you have to consider with the balloon is you 00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:46.279 know everybody knows the higher you go the the 00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:49.900 colder it gets And that holds true for a while 00:33:49.900 --> 00:33:53.259 Until you get to 60 70 thousand feet and then 00:33:53.259 --> 00:33:55.599 you actually kind of have the opposite problem 00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.400 Anything that produces heat like cameras and 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:02.480 radios As you climb into that scarcer and scarcer 00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:06.680 air, there is no air with which to give heat 00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:10.900 to. You actually have radiation issues, as in 00:34:10.900 --> 00:34:15.320 you can't radiate heat from your payload. So 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:17.079 if you're talking about a transmitter that's 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:19.699 putting out a lot of information, you know, modems 00:34:19.699 --> 00:34:22.320 or whatever, you actually have heat sink issues 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.599 where you've got to put that heat somewhere because 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:26.960 there literally is no air with which to give 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:31.039 the heat to. So it becomes a very funny equation 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:34.159 of keeping things warm on the ascent and then 00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:36.260 trying to keep them cool once you get above a 00:34:36.260 --> 00:34:38.219 certain altitude and they're doing their job 00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:41.260 full time. Um, yeah, just interesting things 00:34:41.260 --> 00:34:43.840 to think about that you learn as you go. Sure. 00:34:44.619 --> 00:34:46.679 So we don't, we, you know, we don't often get 00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:51.380 up to, you know, 60 ,000 feet. So we don't know 00:34:51.380 --> 00:34:54.840 that kind of thing. So that's good stuff to know. 00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:58.119 812 -638 -4261 is the phone number. Go ahead, 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:01.929 Josh. I was going to say, so on average, somewhere 00:35:01.929 --> 00:35:07.250 between 75 minutes to up to two hours ascent 00:35:07.250 --> 00:35:09.829 until the balloon bursts. And then depending 00:35:09.829 --> 00:35:12.690 on what type of chute that you have, anywhere 00:35:12.690 --> 00:35:17.909 from maybe 20, 25 minute free fall descent, maybe 00:35:17.909 --> 00:35:22.659 as slow as 40 or so minutes. The question I get 00:35:22.659 --> 00:35:24.539 all the time is where do you launch from? And 00:35:24.539 --> 00:35:26.619 the answer is I don't actually know where I'm 00:35:26.619 --> 00:35:30.000 gonna launch from until maybe 24 to 48 hours 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:35.639 beforehand because my launch location is dictated 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:38.719 by what the wind model says I'm gonna land and 00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:43.199 I'm gonna go out of my way to avoid cities and 00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.400 large lakes. I do take airspace considerations 00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:50.230 into that equation. So I don't always know where 00:35:50.230 --> 00:35:52.530 I'm going to launch until I know what the winds 00:35:52.530 --> 00:35:54.670 are going to do. So I kind of build a recovery 00:35:54.670 --> 00:35:57.730 area, you know, five, 10 miles circle and say, 00:35:58.269 --> 00:36:01.230 OK, if I launch here, where do I need to go to 00:36:01.230 --> 00:36:03.269 make my balloon sort of land in this general 00:36:03.269 --> 00:36:06.289 vicinity? And because you don't really have a 00:36:06.289 --> 00:36:08.570 lot of control. I mean, once you put the helium 00:36:08.570 --> 00:36:10.610 in the balloon and you let it go, it's kind of 00:36:10.610 --> 00:36:14.449 up to the winds and the gods and the did I did 00:36:14.449 --> 00:36:18.309 I do all the math right? And that becomes fun. 00:36:18.329 --> 00:36:20.110 It can also be very nerve wracking because like 00:36:20.110 --> 00:36:21.869 I said, you're not in control once you let it 00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:24.730 go. So it's a lot like storm chasing as you're 00:36:24.730 --> 00:36:26.630 driving through back roads trying to stay underneath 00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:31.449 this thing. 812 -638 -4261 is the phone number. 00:36:31.489 --> 00:36:35.269 If you have a question for Josh, give us a call 00:36:35.269 --> 00:36:39.469 and we'll also be checking Twitter here as well. 00:36:39.750 --> 00:36:42.670 And I slipped up. I was trying to do two things 00:36:42.670 --> 00:36:49.619 at once here and I said satellite and then suddenly 00:36:49.619 --> 00:36:53.440 you know I was like oh wait it's pseudo satellite 00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:56.719 so so talk a little bit about that word pseudo 00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:00.159 satellite and and how that's a little bit different 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:05.780 from typical satellite communication well so 00:37:05.780 --> 00:37:10.000 I'm also involved in the amateur satellite amateur 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:17.159 radio community. SO50, the AO series that are 00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:20.739 out right now, the FM satellites, they work in 00:37:20.739 --> 00:37:23.019 a lot of the same way with the crossband repeater. 00:37:23.260 --> 00:37:26.260 Of course, they're 300, 400 miles up, so their 00:37:26.260 --> 00:37:33.139 footprint is many thousands of miles. But to 00:37:33.139 --> 00:37:36.119 stay in orbit, they would have to be moving at 00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:39.920 five miles per second. So depending on sort of 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.039 how they're approaching overhead, you may have 00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:45.280 four minutes of talk time, or maybe up to 12 00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:49.260 minutes. But at five miles per second, you do, 00:37:49.500 --> 00:37:51.559 especially on the UHF side, have to take into 00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:56.159 account the Doppler shift. So with an actual 00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:59.380 satellite, you are having to adjust for, and 00:37:59.380 --> 00:38:01.960 as the satellite's coming overhead, that Doppler 00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:07.750 shift. with a balloon, you know, it's mostly 00:38:07.750 --> 00:38:11.750 static. I mean, it may be moving at 65 up to 00:38:11.750 --> 00:38:15.250 100 miles an hour in the jet stream. But, you 00:38:15.250 --> 00:38:17.949 know, you could use the same aero antenna, you 00:38:17.949 --> 00:38:20.829 could use the same, you know, crossed Yagi type 00:38:20.829 --> 00:38:24.130 antenna, but you would be communicating, you 00:38:24.130 --> 00:38:26.730 know, a crossband repeater. You would just want 00:38:26.730 --> 00:38:29.150 to specify ahead of time, you know This is the 00:38:29.150 --> 00:38:31.869 uplink frequency that you transmit on and you 00:38:31.869 --> 00:38:34.690 listen to the you know, the downlink on the other 00:38:34.690 --> 00:38:38.250 band Sort of the same thing I would assume with 00:38:38.250 --> 00:38:43.050 the APRS crossband repeater at 70 80 90 thousand 00:38:43.050 --> 00:38:45.989 feet is going to be able to hear it's gonna be 00:38:45.989 --> 00:38:49.610 able to receive I mean pretty much any transmission 00:38:49.610 --> 00:38:54.250 in the state of Texas you would best be served 00:38:54.250 --> 00:38:59.230 by adding a PL, at least a PL receive tone on 00:38:59.230 --> 00:39:01.530 a crossband repeater that you hang at that altitude 00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:06.269 because you don't really want your receiver open, 00:39:06.409 --> 00:39:09.769 you don't want your receiver transmitting just 00:39:09.769 --> 00:39:12.889 blindly because, again, from 100 ,000 feet, you 00:39:12.889 --> 00:39:16.239 may have a 700 -mile footprint. the odds of somebody 00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:19.239 transmitting on that up leak frequency increases 00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:22.320 with that big of a footprint so You definitely 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.179 would want some type of PL tone probably a PL 00:39:25.179 --> 00:39:28.219 tone Way out of range what you would normally 00:39:28.219 --> 00:39:31.460 have in your state in your area Just to keep 00:39:31.460 --> 00:39:33.340 people from accidentally stomping on what you're 00:39:33.340 --> 00:39:37.079 trying to do at altitude I usually use 67 Hertz 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:39.380 just because where I'm at in Texas. It's primarily 00:39:39.380 --> 00:39:47.849 123 on the PL tones Well 812 -638 -4261 is the 00:39:47.849 --> 00:39:52.050 phone number and if you want to call in with 00:39:52.050 --> 00:39:54.789 something give us a call right now. It's 812 00:39:54.789 --> 00:40:01.369 -638 -4261. We'll keep it on here with Josh for 00:40:01.369 --> 00:40:05.730 a few more minutes this evening and talk a little 00:40:05.730 --> 00:40:09.889 bit about high -altitude ballooning. So give 00:40:09.889 --> 00:40:16.809 us a call 812 -638. four two six one so let's 00:40:16.809 --> 00:40:20.630 see here okay here we go we have our call good 00:40:20.630 --> 00:40:27.510 evening hello hey this is bill brown hey bill 00:40:27.510 --> 00:40:31.889 how are we doing doing good all right we've got 00:40:31.889 --> 00:40:36.849 bill brown here on the line and where did my 00:40:36.849 --> 00:40:44.730 notes go for your call WB8ELK and He's done done 00:40:44.730 --> 00:40:50.210 this for for forever. I think so You you mentioned 00:40:50.210 --> 00:40:53.769 that there's an event that you wanted to promote 00:40:53.769 --> 00:40:59.050 a little bit Yes, yeah, I've been flying pile 00:40:59.050 --> 00:41:03.489 two balloons for 31 years now and this summer 00:41:03.489 --> 00:41:08.860 there is called the Great Plains Superlaunch, 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:14.840 the website is superlaunch .org and it draws 00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:18.119 balloon groups from all over the nation and off 00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:22.059 in the world and they all meet and we have a 00:41:22.059 --> 00:41:24.139 conference on a Friday. This year is going to 00:41:24.139 --> 00:41:29.460 be in Pella, Iowa and it basically moves around 00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:34.329 the greater part of the Midwest and we get some 00:41:34.329 --> 00:41:36.849 of the balloon groups from all over the country. 00:41:37.530 --> 00:41:39.530 We have a conference and we talk about the latest 00:41:39.530 --> 00:41:43.550 advances in Iowa tube ballooning and then we 00:41:43.550 --> 00:41:47.250 launch 10, at least 10, weather balloons and 00:41:47.250 --> 00:41:50.889 a few Pico balloons at a big event the following 00:41:50.889 --> 00:41:54.409 Saturday in the morning and we go out and we 00:41:54.409 --> 00:41:58.210 chase them all over the Iowa countryside. So 00:41:58.210 --> 00:42:02.369 they land in corn fields and soybean fields and 00:42:02.369 --> 00:42:05.949 we have a ball. chasing down 10 balloons at once. 00:42:06.829 --> 00:42:10.630 The conference is open to anyone and we would 00:42:10.630 --> 00:42:13.670 love to have anybody come and join us in the 00:42:13.670 --> 00:42:16.130 great fun. It's actually very interesting to 00:42:16.130 --> 00:42:19.130 watch that event on APRS if you can't attend. 00:42:19.250 --> 00:42:21.510 If you watch on APRS it's fun watching the balloons 00:42:21.510 --> 00:42:25.010 all kind of moving sort of somewhat in sync until 00:42:25.010 --> 00:42:27.809 they're not. It looks like a giant bowl of spaghetti. 00:42:28.030 --> 00:42:33.179 It's a lot of fun to watch those paths. Yeah, 00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:36.460 it's a I've been going to it for about I think 00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:40.440 it's 15 to 18 years now that it's been going 00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:45.699 on well 15 I think Well since bills on the line 00:42:45.699 --> 00:42:49.900 I'll ask a question Have you ever worked you 00:42:49.900 --> 00:42:51.800 work exclusively with helium or have you ever 00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:54.019 dabbled in hydrogen just as a better lifting 00:42:54.019 --> 00:43:00.719 body? actually due to the I cost the ever -increasing 00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:04.690 cost of helium I have been using hydrogen for 00:43:04.690 --> 00:43:08.849 a lot of my flights, both the large latex balloons 00:43:08.849 --> 00:43:12.929 and the Pico balloons. As long as you take precautions 00:43:12.929 --> 00:43:16.889 to cut down on the chance of static buildup, 00:43:16.889 --> 00:43:20.969 it's very safe. Actually, the worst that can 00:43:20.969 --> 00:43:23.369 happen, unless you get a bunch of air in it, 00:43:23.869 --> 00:43:27.449 is it just produce a fireball, a brief fireball. 00:43:29.070 --> 00:43:33.119 But the Pico balloons go... At least two or three 00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:37.659 thousand feet higher and you get higher Altitudes 00:43:37.659 --> 00:43:39.960 out of the regular late picks weather balloons 00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:45.400 as well I typically do use helium however for 00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:50.039 school events Because basically their insurance 00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:54.360 policies that they start getting a little Concern 00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:57.599 when you talk about hydrogen they think in the 00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:03.320 bird You won't have a Hindenburg on your hand, 00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:07.659 even if it was happened. But it's been very safe. 00:44:07.900 --> 00:44:10.320 In fact, the last Great Plains Super Launch we 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:14.280 did, the last two of them in fact, most everybody 00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:18.159 flew with hydrogen with no issues. Fantastic. 00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:26.579 And the cost of hydrogen for about a 219 cubic 00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:29.500 foot tank is right around 50 some dollars. So 00:44:29.500 --> 00:44:35.050 it's a lot. It's about a third of the cost of 00:44:35.050 --> 00:44:37.570 the helium, the last helium launch that I had. 00:44:38.869 --> 00:44:42.090 That's about right. Yep. Well, while we've got 00:44:42.090 --> 00:44:45.250 both of you on the line, we've got a couple of 00:44:45.250 --> 00:44:51.250 questions that have come in on text here. One 00:44:51.250 --> 00:44:57.210 on QRZ today was asking about HF telemetry and 00:44:57.210 --> 00:45:02.710 an HF signal. What's what's up with with maybe 00:45:02.710 --> 00:45:08.989 some CW and 20 meters I have some own Yeah, I've 00:45:08.989 --> 00:45:15.989 flown basic Morse code flown Domino EX which 00:45:15.989 --> 00:45:19.710 is a nice multi -tone multi -frequency weak signal 00:45:19.710 --> 00:45:25.730 mode and Jt9 for example, these are all modes 00:45:25.730 --> 00:45:28.809 that you can have a very low -power transmitter 00:45:28.809 --> 00:45:33.250 and still get reception on, and this classic 00:45:33.250 --> 00:45:37.989 teletype, really. Now, lately, however, I've 00:45:37.989 --> 00:45:42.269 come up with a scheme to create telemetry using 00:45:42.269 --> 00:45:47.429 whisper mode. Whisper is a very weak signal mode, 00:45:47.730 --> 00:45:51.389 and the nice thing about it is there's a distributed 00:45:51.389 --> 00:45:54.289 network of ground stations all over the world 00:45:54.289 --> 00:45:57.699 tuned to this segment of the 20 meter band or 00:45:57.699 --> 00:46:02.800 the 30 meter band and it's for propagation and 00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:06.280 most everybody transmits with five watts or less. 00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:12.760 In my case I wanted a 12 gram payload that's 00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:16.159 totally solar powered and it produces a whopping 00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:22.579 25 milliwatts and I use a magnet wire dipole 00:46:22.579 --> 00:46:25.269 that weighs three grams. So the total payload 00:46:25.269 --> 00:46:30.250 is 15 grams, just a fraction of an ounce. And 00:46:30.250 --> 00:46:34.170 I could put it on a Mylar party balloon. And 00:46:34.170 --> 00:46:36.710 in fact, there's another balloon called the SBS 00:46:36.710 --> 00:46:41.909 -13 by Scientific Balloon Solutions. They have 00:46:41.909 --> 00:46:46.489 one about the size of a trash bag. And those 00:46:46.489 --> 00:46:49.710 can go and float in the jet stream or above the 00:46:49.710 --> 00:46:51.489 jet stream in the case of the larger balloon. 00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:54.539 and have the potential to go completely around 00:46:54.539 --> 00:47:00.000 the world and they're jet stream floaters and 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:03.500 the really neat thing is they take minimal amounts 00:47:03.500 --> 00:47:08.579 of helium or hydrogen and the balloon for a party 00:47:08.579 --> 00:47:11.699 balloon it's a 36 inch mylar party balloon those 00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:15.079 balloons cost three dollars a piece and you've 00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:19.500 got about a cubic foot of gas lifting gas the 00:47:19.500 --> 00:47:24.599 trash bag sized balloon cost about $129, but 00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:28.860 I had one of those go around the world. 75 days 00:47:28.860 --> 00:47:30.639 that stayed aloft and it went around the world 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:35.739 six times. So we're using HF. I sent two transmissions 00:47:35.739 --> 00:47:38.739 on whisper one with my call sign and one with 00:47:38.739 --> 00:47:42.940 telemetry embedded in it. That all goes to this 00:47:42.940 --> 00:47:46.420 received. It goes to a database on whisper net 00:47:46.420 --> 00:47:51.300 .org. And then I use a Python script to grab 00:47:51.300 --> 00:47:55.480 that data, reformat it, decode by telemetry, 00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:59.980 and send it to APRS .FI so it shows up like an 00:47:59.980 --> 00:48:03.400 APRS object. And that way, if you ever see an 00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:06.619 APRS balloon over the middle of the Pacific or 00:48:06.619 --> 00:48:09.039 the Atlantic Ocean, you wonder, how did anybody 00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:13.420 receive that? That's how it happens. Right, very 00:48:13.420 --> 00:48:16.980 good. Well we look forward to having you on the 00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:20.420 show here in a few weeks and talk about those 00:48:20.420 --> 00:48:24.500 Pico balloons and some of the more detailed aspects 00:48:24.500 --> 00:48:28.179 of this bill and thanks for writing in this morning 00:48:28.179 --> 00:48:31.099 and some of the information you've been typing 00:48:31.099 --> 00:48:33.860 to us tonight and we appreciate it and look forward 00:48:33.860 --> 00:48:38.460 to having you on the show here soon. Absolutely 00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:42.340 and happy to answer any questions that anybody 00:48:42.340 --> 00:48:46.300 might have about high -altitude ballooning or 00:48:46.300 --> 00:48:50.079 the Pico balloons okay to give my email address 00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:57.320 out sure I can that's WBHELK Whiskey Bravo 8 00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:01.639 echo Lima kilo at gmail .com and I'm happy to 00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:05.400 answer anybody's questions okay well thanks a 00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:08.019 lot Bill we appreciate your time tonight and 00:49:08.019 --> 00:49:11.960 thanks for calling in all right thanks very much 00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:18.429 all right take care now All right. Well, we're 00:49:18.429 --> 00:49:21.030 about out of time here, Josh, but I do have one 00:49:21.030 --> 00:49:26.289 other tweet that I see here from K5IX from Dave 00:49:26.289 --> 00:49:29.630 and says, Hey Josh, still cherish my cool night 00:49:29.630 --> 00:49:33.530 out QSL. Just interested to know what sort of 00:49:33.530 --> 00:49:37.250 crew you use for launch and recovery, or is it 00:49:37.250 --> 00:49:40.690 all manageable by yourself and hope to bump into 00:49:40.690 --> 00:49:45.239 you again sometime. Well, it's great hearing 00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:49.420 from Dave Fellow Texan and there is sort of a 00:49:49.420 --> 00:49:51.920 story about bumping into each other I was down 00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:54.559 in Austin a couple of months ago just doing my 00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:57.039 thing and I got a text message from him apparently 00:49:57.039 --> 00:50:01.340 he'd walked by and saw my Vanity license plate 00:50:01.340 --> 00:50:04.139 the odds I mean the odds of us both being in 00:50:04.139 --> 00:50:06.099 the same place in Austin at the same time and 00:50:06.099 --> 00:50:08.440 him recognizing my license plate or slim to none 00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:12.949 But to answer the question Yeah For the type 00:50:12.949 --> 00:50:15.170 of balloons that we're talking about, the helium 00:50:15.170 --> 00:50:17.590 balloons, definitely having two or three hands 00:50:17.590 --> 00:50:22.510 to help with the filling process, tying off the 00:50:22.510 --> 00:50:26.090 balloons, attaching the payload. Definitely best 00:50:26.090 --> 00:50:28.809 served by having two or three folks on hand. 00:50:29.409 --> 00:50:31.510 I've done it with Baylor engineering students. 00:50:34.059 --> 00:50:38.079 my wife now, girlfriend, fiance at the time, 00:50:38.579 --> 00:50:40.800 having her on board. I've had family members, 00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:44.940 but as far as the launch crew, two to four people 00:50:44.940 --> 00:50:48.019 on hand is probably the best way to go. Once 00:50:48.019 --> 00:50:50.039 you let the balloon go, you're gonna wanna chase 00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:51.980 pretty quickly. So having somebody that's willing 00:50:51.980 --> 00:50:54.840 to sort of stay back and load up bottles and 00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:56.639 load up all the gear is really, really handy. 00:50:57.900 --> 00:51:00.099 Chasing, you could probably chase with one or 00:51:00.099 --> 00:51:02.940 two folks. It's nice to go out with a group of 00:51:02.940 --> 00:51:04.800 folks. I mean, we've had as many as 10 or 12 00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:08.699 cars on the chase, landing in certain areas, 00:51:08.780 --> 00:51:10.860 if you've got to do any kind of fox hunt, if 00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:12.559 you've got to do any kind of direction finding, 00:51:13.300 --> 00:51:15.599 being able to have two or three crews that can 00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:18.139 spread out and try to get a triangulate, try 00:51:18.139 --> 00:51:20.820 to get a fix on a balloon. It's fun to share 00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:24.619 with folks. So I'd recommend two to four people 00:51:24.619 --> 00:51:28.860 for launch, the more the merrier. And then once 00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:32.119 the balloons aloft, Again, it's a lot like a 00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:34.679 high altitude. It's a lot like a satellite. It's 00:51:34.679 --> 00:51:37.599 a shared resource, but you just let as many people 00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:41.320 know as possible and let them make QSOs on the 00:51:41.320 --> 00:51:44.500 balloon and usually pretty short QSOs just because 00:51:44.500 --> 00:51:46.320 it's a shared resource, much like a satellite. 00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:49.599 But the more the merrier. It's fun sharing the 00:51:49.599 --> 00:51:51.739 hobby and fun sharing the photos and the videos 00:51:51.739 --> 00:51:53.679 and doing these kind of events like this with 00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:57.800 you. Well, I've sure enjoyed a lot of your pictures 00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:02.760 and videos that you shared with me and some pretty 00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:05.300 cool stuff. So thanks so much for coming on the 00:52:05.300 --> 00:52:08.579 show and telling us about it. And like I said, 00:52:08.659 --> 00:52:11.179 we're going to follow up on it and do another 00:52:11.179 --> 00:52:14.980 one here soon and get into some more specifics. 00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:17.539 But this gives us a great overview of what's 00:52:17.539 --> 00:52:20.719 going on with high -altitude ballooning. So thank 00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:23.940 you so much. Thank you. Thanks Bill for chiming 00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:27.340 in. I'll say the same thing Bill did. My email 00:52:27.340 --> 00:52:31.019 address and QRZ is active and I'm usually happy 00:52:31.019 --> 00:52:32.639 to answer pretty much any question that comes 00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:38.099 my way. So email me, email Bill. We work separately, 00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:41.320 never met until today, but most of us that are 00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:43.139 in the hobby would love to share and talk about 00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:46.860 it. Neil, appreciate your time, thank you. Early 00:52:46.860 --> 00:52:48.820 Merry Christmas, happy holidays to you and all 00:52:48.820 --> 00:52:52.760 your listeners, and appreciate it. W3 ARD. Okay. 00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:56.280 Yep. You can catch him at W3 ARD. Just get in 00:52:56.280 --> 00:53:00.139 there on QRZ and you can email Josh if you have 00:53:00.139 --> 00:53:03.480 some questions. So we're going to finish things 00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:08.280 up here tonight, but thanks to Josh W3 ARD for 00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:11.550 coming on the show. And that is a wrap. for this 00:53:11.550 --> 00:53:14.389 week's edition of HamTalk Live. And thanks to 00:53:14.389 --> 00:53:16.429 everybody out there in cyberspace for listening 00:53:16.429 --> 00:53:20.010 and for calling in and typing in. And I invite 00:53:20.010 --> 00:53:23.150 you back next Thursday night at 9 p .m. Eastern 00:53:23.150 --> 00:53:27.829 Time when Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA, will be here 00:53:27.829 --> 00:53:31.590 to talk about making the most of satellite time. 00:53:31.929 --> 00:53:34.789 And for a list of all of our upcoming guests, 00:53:34.989 --> 00:53:39.320 you can visit HamTalk Live. And if you like HamTalk 00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:42.239 Live, please consider leaving us a review on 00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:44.960 iTunes or wherever you listen. That helps others 00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:48.780 find us faster. So for now, this is Neil Rapp, 00:53:48.920 --> 00:53:54.559 WB9VPG, saying 7 -3, 7 -5, may the good DX be 00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:57.639 yours, and a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays 00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:12.000 to all. Thanks for watching.