WEBVTT 00:00:09.949 --> 00:00:12.789 Thanks for tuning in. Hamtalk Live will be on 00:00:12.789 --> 00:00:30.730 the air shortly. Please stand by. Thanks for 00:00:30.730 --> 00:00:33.469 tuning in. Hamtalk Live will be on the air shortly. 00:00:33.770 --> 00:00:42.320 Please stand by. This episode of HamTalk Live 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:45.960 is brought to you by Tower Electronics. For connectors, 00:00:46.340 --> 00:00:51.799 cables, and more, call 920 -435 -2973 or visit 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:57.640 pl -259 .com. And by ICOM, heard it, worked it, 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:02.899 logged it. Visit www .icomamerica .com slash 00:01:02.899 --> 00:01:06.760 amateur for more information about ICOM radios. 00:01:38.540 --> 00:01:41.819 Good evening, everyone. It's time for HamTalk 00:01:41.819 --> 00:01:48.180 Live. It's episode number 148, Pico Ballooning, 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:53.439 recorded live on Thursday, January 10th, 2019. 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.519 I'm your host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. Thanks for 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:00.959 tuning into this episode of HamTalk Live. Tonight 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:04.780 we're joined by Bill Brown, WB8ELK, and we'll 00:02:04.780 --> 00:02:08.439 take your calls live in just a few minutes. Last 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:12.659 week, Patrick Stoddard WD9EWK, Indof Buckley 00:02:12.659 --> 00:02:17.699 in 6UTC, and David Aikens in 6HHR were here to 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:21.060 talk about operations on the Queen Mary. If you 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:23.759 missed the show, you can listen anytime at HamTalkLive 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:28.060 .com or on your favorite podcast app or YouTube. 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:33.139 We also want to welcome our listeners on WTWW 00:02:33.139 --> 00:02:39.000 5085 AM. HamTalk Live re -broadcasts are now 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:44.020 on WTWW shortwave on Saturday nights along with 00:02:44.020 --> 00:02:47.060 several other ham radio programs. So thanks to 00:02:47.060 --> 00:02:51.219 Ted Randall and Holly for getting and his crew 00:02:51.219 --> 00:02:54.280 for adding us to the Saturday night ham radio 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:57.879 show lineup and we'll let you know exactly when 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.750 the Time is going to air they're kind of juggling 00:03:00.750 --> 00:03:03.569 around some of the shows and some of the times 00:03:03.569 --> 00:03:06.909 I think we were on at seven o 'clock central 00:03:06.909 --> 00:03:11.409 Last Saturday and that was our first time on 00:03:11.409 --> 00:03:14.030 and and it just kind of happened. So I didn't 00:03:14.030 --> 00:03:18.469 have any warning so We'll figure out the times 00:03:18.469 --> 00:03:22.169 and get those announced, but we will be on Saturday 00:03:22.169 --> 00:03:24.729 night, but we won't be live so you won't be able 00:03:24.729 --> 00:03:31.210 to call in on WTWW, but we will have the rebroadcast 00:03:31.210 --> 00:03:36.949 available every week over there on 5 0 8 5 a 00:03:36.949 --> 00:03:40.969 .m. So that's new and then also we've got a new 00:03:40.969 --> 00:03:44.389 phone system tonight of kind of been telling 00:03:44.389 --> 00:03:49.490 you that Skype was on borrowed time and We finally 00:03:49.490 --> 00:03:52.849 lost the capability to merge calls on Monday 00:03:52.849 --> 00:03:56.150 on Skype. So we've got a new phone system in 00:03:56.150 --> 00:04:00.990 place Thanks to NN1C. That's Chicken with Fries 00:04:00.990 --> 00:04:06.490 new fancy call sign Marty he got us hooked up 00:04:06.490 --> 00:04:10.750 with some Some real phone stuff. So we've been 00:04:10.750 --> 00:04:13.909 working on that all week. And so we just finished 00:04:13.909 --> 00:04:16.189 it up a few hours ago So we're gonna give it 00:04:16.189 --> 00:04:20.500 a try tonight. So We'll see how that goes, but 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:23.560 we're kind of excited about some of the possibilities 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:29.000 for people calling in. We'll have some more capabilities 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:32.240 to do some things to make it a little better. 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:35.779 So we'll see how that goes, but thanks to Marty 00:04:35.779 --> 00:04:39.779 for getting that ready to go, especially today 00:04:39.779 --> 00:04:42.759 when we were just trying to finish up the last 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.740 little bit. So we've got it. Going at least it 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:50.120 worked in the test. So I do have to give you 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:53.279 a new phone number to call tonight. Now next 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.680 week we'll have everything back to the old phone 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:57.379 number. We're going to move the phone number 00:04:57.379 --> 00:05:00.980 over to the new system, but tonight you'll need 00:05:00.980 --> 00:05:02.939 to call a different number. So I'm going to give 00:05:02.939 --> 00:05:05.660 you that number right now. It's not time to call 00:05:05.660 --> 00:05:08.939 yet, but let me give you the new number. It's 00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:13.819 still area code 812, but the new number is 650. 00:05:15.430 --> 00:05:25.620 9556. That's 812650. 9556. We'll be using that 00:05:25.620 --> 00:05:28.720 tonight only, just until we get the new system 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:31.740 all transferred over. But if you want to call 00:05:31.740 --> 00:05:35.060 in during the last segment of the show tonight 00:05:35.060 --> 00:05:38.680 and ask some questions, that's how you'll do 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:43.740 it. Or you can tweet us or at HamTalk Live on 00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:45.759 Twitter and you can do that whenever you want 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.139 and I'll... go over there and check that from 00:05:48.139 --> 00:05:52.019 time to time. So you can always get us over there 00:05:52.019 --> 00:05:55.019 on Twitter. So I'll be back with Bill right after 00:05:55.019 --> 00:05:59.600 this word from ICOM America right here. on HamTalk 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:03.319 Live. Attention all hams, ICOM knows that ham 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:06.540 clubs play a big role in bringing ham communities 00:06:06.540 --> 00:06:09.300 together to learn from their peers and industry 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:12.120 leaders. As a way to give back and help you on 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:15.920 this mission, ICOM has launched a promotion exclusively 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.759 for ham clubs and the ham fest they are involved 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:21.279 with. By registering your club, you could win 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:25.319 ICOM swag, a Skype presentation, or for your 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:28.850 ham fest, an ICOM booth set up at your ham club. 00:06:29.029 --> 00:06:31.990 Register today for your chance to win. Enter 00:06:31.990 --> 00:06:37.350 today at www .icomamerica .com slash hams. Hamfest 00:06:37.350 --> 00:06:39.870 net registration is open to U .S. organizations 00:06:39.870 --> 00:06:43.769 only. You're listening to Ham Talk Live with 00:06:43.769 --> 00:06:47.329 Neil Rapp. Yesterday my XYL said she'd leave 00:06:47.329 --> 00:07:07.290 me if I didn't give up ham radio. Over. Thanks 00:07:07.290 --> 00:07:10.730 to ICOM for sponsoring the show again tonight 00:07:10.730 --> 00:07:14.689 and again some cool deals out there for ICOM 00:07:14.689 --> 00:07:17.750 for a couple more months, so make sure you check 00:07:17.750 --> 00:07:24.410 those out. Visit them at ICOMAmerica .com. Tonight 00:07:24.410 --> 00:07:29.310 our guest is Bill Brown, WB8ELK. He lives in 00:07:29.310 --> 00:07:31.990 Huntsville, Alabama and is the father of high 00:07:31.990 --> 00:07:36.819 -altitude ballooning. He's launched 500 missions 00:07:36.819 --> 00:07:41.060 since 1987. Some of those include amateur television, 00:07:41.699 --> 00:07:44.360 crossband and simplex repeaters, and live camera 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:47.720 video downlinks. He was also managing editor 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.980 of 73 magazine and had a ballooning column in 00:07:50.980 --> 00:07:54.620 CQVHF for about a decade and lately he's been 00:07:54.620 --> 00:07:59.199 flying a lot of Pico balloons on VHF and HF around 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:02.180 the world and that's what we're going to focus 00:08:02.180 --> 00:08:05.100 mostly on tonight. So Bill, thanks for being 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:09.920 on the show. Hey, great to be here. Well, we 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.879 heard from you a little bit on the kind of the 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:16.319 general ballooning show that we did with Josh 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:20.339 here a few weeks ago. And so why don't you tell 00:08:20.339 --> 00:08:24.199 us how you got started into ballooning and then 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:27.180 we're going to kind of focus in on the Pico balloons. 00:08:27.689 --> 00:08:30.449 Oh, sure. When I first started in ham radio, 00:08:30.589 --> 00:08:33.909 I was very interested in amateur television and 00:08:33.909 --> 00:08:37.529 slow -scan television. But amateur television 00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:40.970 is usually in the UHF portion of the band, so 00:08:40.970 --> 00:08:44.230 you're basically in line of sight. So antenna 00:08:44.230 --> 00:08:47.850 height is everything. So I watched a documentary 00:08:47.850 --> 00:08:51.289 about Joe Kittinger, who parachuted from 102 00:08:51.289 --> 00:08:56.549 ,000 feet with Project Man High back in the 1960s. 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:00.440 And at the time he held the highest parachute 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:04.960 jump and actually achieved broke the sound barrier 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:09.779 during his descent. And he described this view 00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:13.740 of the world seeing the blackness of space during 00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:16.840 daylight, seeing the curve of the earth. And 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:19.899 it was a view that I wanted to see. However, 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:23.899 I wasn't about to. go up on a balloon and parachute 00:09:23.899 --> 00:09:27.500 off from 20 miles above the earth. So I came 00:09:27.500 --> 00:09:30.980 up with a little safer version and that was to 00:09:30.980 --> 00:09:34.000 take a weather balloon like they use for the 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:38.100 weather viewer uses for atmospheric sounding 00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:41.179 and I observed a couple of their launches and 00:09:41.179 --> 00:09:43.759 I says well you know I could put a camera and 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:46.759 a transmitter and a video system and I could 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:49.620 actually see the view that Joe Kittinger described. 00:09:50.490 --> 00:09:55.090 So back in 1987, 31 years ago, I launched my 00:09:55.090 --> 00:09:57.929 first balloon, which was the first balloon to 00:09:57.929 --> 00:10:01.950 carry a TV camera at the time in the United States 00:10:01.950 --> 00:10:06.009 and in fact the world. So we went up to about 00:10:06.009 --> 00:10:09.230 80 or 90 ,000 feet and then subsequent flights 00:10:09.230 --> 00:10:12.970 we had a live camera and you could literally 00:10:12.970 --> 00:10:15.269 see the curvature of the earth and the blackness 00:10:15.269 --> 00:10:18.570 of space. during broad daylight, because you're 00:10:18.570 --> 00:10:22.009 above 99 % of the Earth's atmosphere. So that's 00:10:22.009 --> 00:10:25.090 how I got started. I've launched 500 balloons 00:10:25.090 --> 00:10:29.350 since then. One was a 400 -pound rocket we launched 00:10:29.350 --> 00:10:32.389 from the Gulf of Mexico on a balloon that took 00:10:32.389 --> 00:10:37.230 33 tanks of helium. And we were going to try 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:40.750 and send the rocket into space and back again. 00:10:40.750 --> 00:10:42.730 It wouldn't go into orbit, but we were going 00:10:42.730 --> 00:10:47.480 to break The altitude limit for space and we 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:50.360 didn't achieve that but we did on us one of our 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:52.899 launches. We did several those it was called 00:10:52.899 --> 00:10:58.279 the halo project. Project halo and. We had live 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:01.879 video downlinks coming back from both the gondola 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:07.559 and the rocket and. So that's on the mega payload 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:12.059 size 400 pounds and up. And then I decided just 00:11:12.059 --> 00:11:16.399 a couple of years ago, I witnessed some efforts 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:20.259 to actually fly on a party balloon. We're not 00:11:20.259 --> 00:11:23.019 talking the latex rubber party balloons, but 00:11:23.019 --> 00:11:27.480 we're talking about a three -foot diameter Mylar 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:30.500 foil balloon like they use for happy birthday 00:11:30.500 --> 00:11:35.899 parties. And one of the students in a science 00:11:35.899 --> 00:11:40.720 camp I was hosting I mentioned the fact that 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.419 have you ever attached a note to a balloon and 00:11:43.419 --> 00:11:46.159 let it go and get a response back? And he said 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:49.000 he had on one of these Mylar balloons and got 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:52.460 a response back from a fellow in Canada 400 miles 00:11:52.460 --> 00:11:56.679 away. And his question to me was how far and 00:11:56.679 --> 00:11:59.399 what altitude do you think a balloon like this 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:03.340 would go? Just a party balloon. So that prompted 00:12:03.340 --> 00:12:07.889 me to Look into building a payload that was lightweight 00:12:07.889 --> 00:12:12.830 enough to be launched on. They'd have to be under 00:12:12.830 --> 00:12:17.590 under an ounce to be successful. There were a 00:12:17.590 --> 00:12:20.110 couple of people at times that have actually 00:12:20.110 --> 00:12:25.330 had done this. Leo Bodnar, M0XER and Anthony 00:12:25.330 --> 00:12:31.250 Nguyen down in Australia, VK3YT, using one single 00:12:31.250 --> 00:12:37.970 Qualitex silver foil balloon. And so I decided 00:12:37.970 --> 00:12:40.529 to jump at the fray. There's probably about a 00:12:40.529 --> 00:12:46.769 dozen on these ultra -lightweight Pico payloads. 00:12:46.970 --> 00:12:50.889 I decided to make one that was rugged, could 00:12:50.889 --> 00:12:55.169 be handled by students in classrooms, and yet 00:12:55.169 --> 00:12:57.870 light and weight enough to fly on one of these 00:12:57.870 --> 00:13:01.529 balloons. So I came up with the Sky Tracker. 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:05.919 It weighs 12 grams, ready to fly. It's totally 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:12.019 solar powered. I use flexible power cells on 00:13:12.019 --> 00:13:16.259 it. They're made by PowerFilmSolar .com. The 00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:19.200 marketing manager actually is a ham and they 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.259 often have a booth at the Dayton Hamvention. 00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:26.159 But they're very rugged. You can have kids play 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.840 with them and they aren't going to break. because 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:30.899 when you take them into a classroom, they like 00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:33.259 to touch the payload and see the experiment. 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:38.259 And it's very easy to go into a classroom with 00:13:38.259 --> 00:13:42.259 one of these systems. It's a great STEM project 00:13:42.259 --> 00:13:46.460 because all you need is a little small canister 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:51.120 of helium and a three dollar party balloon and 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:55.340 one of my sky trackers or equivalent. And you 00:13:55.340 --> 00:13:58.490 don't have to lug this huge hundred pound tank 00:13:58.490 --> 00:14:02.250 of helium and lately the cost of helium has been 00:14:02.250 --> 00:14:05.350 going sky -high and a big tank of helium is going 00:14:05.350 --> 00:14:11.830 to cost $150 or more so I just have one cubic 00:14:11.830 --> 00:14:14.950 foot of helium in these balloons and they fly 00:14:14.950 --> 00:14:18.509 in the jet stream and actually can go around 00:14:18.509 --> 00:14:23.029 the world in about 11 days to 14 days this time 00:14:23.029 --> 00:14:28.000 of year if you get the winds just right So that 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:32.100 was my impetus to to try and find a something 00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:34.519 that I could take into classrooms to teach students 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:38.200 about space and science and ham radio and The 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:42.600 big draw is if you can show a student that they 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.500 can follow These pico balloons on their smartphone 00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:51.779 in real time that hooks them into ham radio Because 00:14:51.779 --> 00:14:54.460 they you've got to incorporate the smartphones 00:14:56.379 --> 00:15:01.899 So the we've been one of my first flights I used 00:15:01.899 --> 00:15:04.480 a little bit bigger balloon for that one. It's 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:09.740 made out of sushi wrap and Company in California 00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:15.580 who is also a ham K6 RPT and his son they have 00:15:15.580 --> 00:15:18.279 a company called scientific balloon solutions 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:22.740 calm and They sell about a three foot by seven 00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:27.750 and a half foot plastic tube balloon that's made 00:15:27.750 --> 00:15:31.429 out of the sushi wrap and it's a little more 00:15:31.429 --> 00:15:35.529 expensive than three dollars but it can go up 00:15:35.529 --> 00:15:38.990 to about 42 ,000 feet and stay there for months 00:15:38.990 --> 00:15:44.929 and sometimes over a year my first one I tried 00:15:44.929 --> 00:15:48.570 with that balloon with my 12 ounce my 12 gram 00:15:48.570 --> 00:15:53.470 board went around the world six times six and 00:15:53.470 --> 00:15:59.610 a half times in 75 days so now you've got a low 00:15:59.610 --> 00:16:02.870 low low orbiting earth orbiting mini satellite 00:16:02.870 --> 00:16:07.929 on ham radio and During the winter months like 00:16:07.929 --> 00:16:12.330 I say you can take Between 11 days and 20 days 00:16:12.330 --> 00:16:15.029 to go completely around the world if you are 00:16:15.029 --> 00:16:20.039 above the weather I've had students at UC San 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:24.259 Diego, they sent one of these up with that same 00:16:24.259 --> 00:16:27.759 SBS 13 balloon from Scientific Balloon Solutions 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:31.440 and they went around the world six times in 90 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:36.899 days. Alan Adamson, W7QO, he's developed his 00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:40.919 own tracker. He used one of these balloons and 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:46.370 went around the world over 30 times and It stopped 00:16:46.370 --> 00:16:50.049 transmitting after about a year and a half. Just 00:16:50.049 --> 00:16:54.769 a month or two ago, it came alive for one transmission 00:16:54.769 --> 00:16:59.690 over Boulder, Colorado, and it was still alive. 00:17:00.269 --> 00:17:02.990 But something's gone awry with it after being 00:17:02.990 --> 00:17:05.509 up there for two years, but it was over two years 00:17:05.509 --> 00:17:10.069 in there and it's still flying. So it's amazing 00:17:10.069 --> 00:17:15.660 what can be done with these Pico balloons. Like 00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.680 I say, the experimenters are all over the world. 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.160 We have several in Europe that are designing 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:26.859 payloads and one in Canada, one in New York, 00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:32.259 a couple in New York actually. So we just have 00:17:32.259 --> 00:17:36.960 a lot of fun introducing students to ham radio 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:41.299 this way and it is an inspiration to them because 00:17:41.299 --> 00:17:45.259 they have launched their very own ham radio mini 00:17:45.259 --> 00:17:51.099 satellite. It doesn't go into space but it goes 00:17:51.099 --> 00:17:53.960 in this and basically right in the jet stream. 00:17:54.339 --> 00:17:57.440 They learn about the weather patterns too. Absolutely, 00:17:57.539 --> 00:18:00.980 that's a great way to teach all those things 00:18:00.980 --> 00:18:05.400 and let them observe a lot of those weather patterns 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:11.019 up there almost into space. Let's talk a little 00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:16.869 bit about some of the The differences here you 00:18:16.869 --> 00:18:21.890 have to You know have fairly light payloads to 00:18:21.890 --> 00:18:25.210 start with and then on the pico balloons They've 00:18:25.210 --> 00:18:29.730 got to be even less. So what do you do to accommodate? 00:18:30.289 --> 00:18:34.900 the difference what What are you doing to lighten 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:39.339 that payload and do you have to cut back on an 00:18:39.339 --> 00:18:42.059 experiment on board while the transmitter is 00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:45.019 up there? What do you have to do differently? 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:48.900 Well, with a traditional latex weather balloon 00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:54.339 flight, you're limited to six pounds maximum 00:18:54.339 --> 00:18:57.559 per payload and a total of 12 pounds. So you 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:04.299 have a lot of room for adding batteries and and 00:19:04.299 --> 00:19:08.579 large experiments. However, in the Pico balloon, 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:11.400 the real challenge is to make it as light as 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.039 humanly possible. And when you think you've got 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.160 it about as light as you can possibly get it, 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:20.039 you have to make it lighter. So I had to do things 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:24.279 like the thickness of the PC board. I actually 00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:27.019 used a PC board as about one third the normal 00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:31.059 thickness. I found a PC board company in China 00:19:31.059 --> 00:19:34.019 that would produce these for no extra charge 00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:38.799 and that really helped. That cut down a lot of 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.900 weight. The other thing I did was instead of 00:19:41.900 --> 00:19:45.660 a battery on it, it's totally solar powered. 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.519 There are no batteries at all. That cuts down 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:52.660 on the weight because batteries or even a small 00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:56.500 lithium polymer battery is extremely heavy. when 00:19:56.500 --> 00:19:58.519 you're working with something that weighs 12 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:02.460 grams. The lightest LiPo battery I could find 00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:06.400 was four grams and I have flown that where it's 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:10.599 rechargeable by the solar panels. But the heavier 00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:13.940 your payload the lower your float altitude and 00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:17.099 you are at greater risk of hitting a storm. So 00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:21.279 if you're down around 23 to 26 ,000 feet Your 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:24.180 likelihood of hitting a hitting weather and getting 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:26.240 knocked out of the sky at some point during the 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:29.440 flight It's much greater than flying at 42 ,000 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:34.099 feet where you're above 95 % of the storms So 00:20:34.099 --> 00:20:37.599 that's your biggest the thing that will cause 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:40.380 your mission to fail is is usually hitting a 00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:44.059 thunderstorm or an ice storm or some sort of 00:20:44.059 --> 00:20:47.559 weather that That reaches up into that altitude 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:51.819 that you're flying So this time of year your 00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:56.680 biggest threat would be icing up but if you get 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:02.920 above about 29 or 30 ,000 feet you are Going 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.519 at least halfway around the world. There was 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:08.579 a group that just launched today. In fact from 00:21:08.579 --> 00:21:13.400 Pella, Iowa The call sign on that one is whiskey 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:20.309 Bravo zero United radio whiskey -4 And I'll give 00:21:20.309 --> 00:21:24.490 you two websites that, of course, those of you 00:21:24.490 --> 00:21:30.089 who have experimented with APRS, aprs .fi is 00:21:30.089 --> 00:21:33.250 the go -to website for tracking vehicles and 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:38.730 planes and balloons. So you would enter WB0URW 00:21:38.730 --> 00:21:42.769 -4 into the call sign field and you can see the 00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:46.660 track of today's flight. Course it ended over 00:21:46.660 --> 00:21:50.079 Indiana. It was launched from Iowa Because the 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:52.759 Sun went down so we'll have to wait until tomorrow 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:58.420 to see where it is It may actually be too far 00:21:58.420 --> 00:22:00.799 out in the Atlantic to hit any ground stations 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:05.039 because it's two meter a PRS on that one The 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:09.700 last one they did was WB 0 you are w -3 and if 00:22:09.700 --> 00:22:13.220 you search for that one You'll see its last report 00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:18.180 Keep in mind it was launched from Pella, Iowa 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:21.779 from a school there it actually went halfway 00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:24.180 around the world and the last report we got from 00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:27.940 it was over Eastern China and Then it headed 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:30.980 out in the Pacific Ocean and likely hit some 00:22:30.980 --> 00:22:33.559 bad storms out there and came down So but it 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:37.990 was well on its way around the world So those 00:22:37.990 --> 00:22:41.289 are two flights that have been very recent and 00:22:41.289 --> 00:22:44.089 you can actually search for that there is another 00:22:44.089 --> 00:22:48.210 website That is dedicated to high altitude balloons 00:22:48.210 --> 00:22:52.869 both the small pico balloons and the normal larger 00:22:52.869 --> 00:22:58.410 weather balloons and that is tracker dot Hab 00:22:58.410 --> 00:23:02.750 hub and I'll spell that out Hotel alpha Bravo 00:23:02.750 --> 00:23:08.890 Hotel United Bravo dot org that one if you go 00:23:08.890 --> 00:23:12.450 to that website you will see all the balloons 00:23:12.450 --> 00:23:16.029 flying worldwide both northern and southern hemisphere 00:23:16.029 --> 00:23:20.869 and it's fascinating website to watch as balloons 00:23:20.869 --> 00:23:23.750 pop up from different places and you can follow 00:23:23.750 --> 00:23:27.670 the the flights if it's just going up and then 00:23:27.670 --> 00:23:31.190 comes right back down it's normally a regular 00:23:31.190 --> 00:23:33.890 weather balloon flight but if it's a flat line 00:23:33.890 --> 00:23:37.009 that in the Jet stream, then you'll know it's 00:23:37.009 --> 00:23:41.430 a pico balloon most likely So those are my to 00:23:41.430 --> 00:23:45.769 go to flight websites for watching balloon flights 00:23:45.769 --> 00:23:51.769 and And so that's what I have the classrooms 00:23:51.769 --> 00:23:54.609 that when I go into a classroom We we show them 00:23:54.609 --> 00:23:56.750 those websites so they can track them on their 00:23:56.750 --> 00:24:00.450 smartphones in real time The nice thing about 00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:05.440 a PRS is you have ground stations worldwide So, 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.559 and they all link to the Google Maps so they 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:11.759 can track it. There is, however, something you 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.720 had to consider when you fly an APRS balloon 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:20.079 worldwide. The frequency we use here in the United 00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:26.099 States for our national APRS network is 144 .390 00:24:26.099 --> 00:24:29.940 megahertz. That's not the case worldwide. Europe 00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:38.799 is 144 .800. China is 144 .64 and Japan is 144 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:44.599 .66 and there's a few other frequencies. So what 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.299 I have to do is design an algorithm in my code 00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:52.019 and by the way the processor I use is the same 00:24:52.019 --> 00:24:54.920 that's used on the original Arduino boards for 00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.319 those of you who have programmed an Arduino. 00:24:57.579 --> 00:25:01.700 It's all written in C using the Arduino developing 00:25:02.009 --> 00:25:08.230 system IDE. And so I wrote a, a friend of mine 00:25:08.230 --> 00:25:11.349 wrote a geofencing program that I incorporated 00:25:11.349 --> 00:25:18.410 in that. MikeKD2EAT and AlanW7QO came up with 00:25:18.410 --> 00:25:23.910 an integer -based version of a, of a geofencing 00:25:23.910 --> 00:25:26.769 algorithm which, so we basically draw a box around 00:25:26.769 --> 00:25:30.700 the The regions where we want the frequency to 00:25:30.700 --> 00:25:34.180 shift to their national APRS network, and there's 00:25:34.180 --> 00:25:37.640 also three At least three countries that you 00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.420 have to you can't transmit over I'll give you 00:25:41.420 --> 00:25:45.180 one of them Yemen See if you can figure out what 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:51.180 one of the other ones is I'm guessing North Korea. 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:57.559 That's right. We don't But believe it or not 00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:01.640 Great Britain is one of the forbidden countries 00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:06.559 because they do not allow airborne amateur radio 00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:11.599 in the United Kingdom. And I don't know the reasoning 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.440 behind that, but they can't fly ham radio in 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:19.680 an airplane, a balloon or a kite, anything that 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:24.539 flies. So I have to draw a box around. United 00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:27.079 Kingdom and make sure my transmitter goes off 00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:29.380 when it goes across to the United Kingdom as 00:26:29.380 --> 00:26:36.299 well. Very interesting well we are overdue for 00:26:36.299 --> 00:26:38.480 a break here so we're going to take a break will 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:40.779 come back and talk to bill will give you a chance 00:26:40.779 --> 00:26:44.500 to call in we've already got several tweets here 00:26:44.500 --> 00:26:48.359 with some questions so we'll take care of. as 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:51.359 many of those as we can. Maybe we can pick up 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:55.440 here on some resources to fly these balloons 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:58.799 as well when we come back. So we'll be back with 00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:01.380 Bill right after this word from Tower Electronics 00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:05.039 right here on HamTalk Live. Thank you for a lovely 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:08.740 dinner. Aren't you going to ask me in to solder 00:27:08.740 --> 00:27:12.720 some PL259s? Well, I do have some from Tower 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:16.880 Electronics. How can I refuse? Consider the sophisticated 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:20.859 quality of PL259s from Tower Electronics. From 00:27:20.859 --> 00:27:23.420 soldering supplies to adapters, connectors to 00:27:23.420 --> 00:27:26.599 cables, and all types of connectors, Tower Electronics 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.380 has the parts you're looking for. Well? Just 00:27:30.380 --> 00:27:34.299 one more connector? You know I love your PL259s. 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:37.359 Then by all means, take some with you. Don't 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.819 be caught without PL259s. Visit Tower Electronics 00:27:40.819 --> 00:27:43.349 at a ham fest near you. or visit them online 00:27:43.349 --> 00:27:50.230 anytime at PL -259 .com or call 920 -435 -2973. 00:27:50.869 --> 00:27:53.390 They also have hamsticks, mobile antennas, and 00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:57.329 meters too. See the whole catalog. Go to PL -259 00:27:57.329 --> 00:28:00.490 .com Tower Electronics, the Ham's Dime Store 00:28:00.490 --> 00:28:05.019 since 1978. Join the conversation. Give us a 00:28:05.019 --> 00:28:11.579 call at 812 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812 -638 -4261. 00:28:11.859 --> 00:28:41.150 Now, here's more HamTalk Live. Thanks to Scott 00:28:41.150 --> 00:28:43.990 and Jill at Tower Electronics for bringing you 00:28:43.990 --> 00:28:46.490 HamTalk Live. Been seeing pictures of Scott running 00:28:46.490 --> 00:28:49.150 around Disney World down there. He's down there 00:28:49.150 --> 00:28:52.430 ready for Fort Myers, Florida on January 18th 00:28:52.430 --> 00:28:55.509 and 19th. He'll be at the HamFest there. And 00:28:55.509 --> 00:28:58.230 then I believe Jill will be over at St. Charles, 00:28:58.230 --> 00:29:03.029 Illinois on January 19th. And then January 26th, 00:29:03.109 --> 00:29:06.430 Collinsville, Illinois and Arcadia, Florida. 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:12.400 but you can visit them anytime at PL -259 .com. 00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:16.420 Well, HamTalk Live is on the air every Thursday 00:29:16.420 --> 00:29:19.700 night at 9 p .m. Eastern Time right here at HamTalkLive 00:29:19.700 --> 00:29:22.640 .com. Be sure to check us out on Facebook, Twitter, 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:25.859 and Instagram, and it's time for your phone calls 00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:28.940 now. So if you have a question for Bill, call 00:29:28.940 --> 00:29:35.440 920 -650. Now that's a different phone number 00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:43.039 than usual. It's just for tonight. 812 -650 -9556. 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:47.240 We'll be back to our usual 812 Net Ham 1 number 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:50.920 next week. But you can tweet us. We've got several 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.920 tweets lined up here that we'll get to here momentarily. 00:29:54.269 --> 00:29:57.130 And if you're listening to the rebroadcast on 00:29:57.130 --> 00:30:02.250 WTWW or on one of the podcast apps, uh, you're 00:30:02.250 --> 00:30:04.450 not going to get anybody if you call in. So, 00:30:04.569 --> 00:30:07.069 uh, this show has already happened and it's already 00:30:07.069 --> 00:30:10.069 in the past. So, uh, you'll have to listen to 00:30:10.069 --> 00:30:14.130 ham talk live .com if you want to. call in live. 00:30:14.970 --> 00:30:18.230 So nobody's home if you're calling the phone 00:30:18.230 --> 00:30:22.609 number not on Thursday night here while we're 00:30:22.609 --> 00:30:27.509 live on the show. So let me bring Bill back in 00:30:27.509 --> 00:30:31.609 here and we've got several questions but one 00:30:31.609 --> 00:30:34.769 thing we wanted to get to before the break was 00:30:35.789 --> 00:30:39.369 some resources, you know, what exactly are you 00:30:39.369 --> 00:30:42.210 going to need if you want to fly one of these 00:30:42.210 --> 00:30:45.970 balloons besides just your plain old party balloon? 00:30:47.190 --> 00:30:51.230 Well, you could make your own payload up using 00:30:51.230 --> 00:30:56.549 like an Arduino mini board. You can get a U -blox 00:30:56.549 --> 00:31:02.490 board from UPU Tronics in Great Britain. But 00:31:02.490 --> 00:31:04.170 you'd have to come up with a little transmitter 00:31:04.170 --> 00:31:09.130 board as well. I went ahead and developed it 00:31:09.130 --> 00:31:13.150 as an all -in -one package, ready to fly, and 00:31:13.150 --> 00:31:17.150 so if anybody's interested, then I make these 00:31:17.150 --> 00:31:20.450 available to those who want to fly PicoBallons 00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:24.130 without having to design their own. You can email 00:31:24.130 --> 00:31:30.930 me at whiskeybravo8eco, that's wb8elk at gmail 00:31:30.930 --> 00:31:33.809 .com, and I'll give you the particulars on that. 00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:40.240 As far as other resources go, the Mylar balloons, 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:46.359 you have to buy a Qualitex brand. BalloonsDirect 00:31:46.359 --> 00:31:49.720 or BalloonsFast .com, you want to search for 00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:55.259 a 36 inch round silver Mylar balloon. Helium, 00:31:55.779 --> 00:31:58.980 I use those party time tanks, balloon time tanks 00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:01.900 you can get at the dollar store or Walmart. but 00:32:01.900 --> 00:32:05.579 keep in mind if you do so they're 80 % pure helium 00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:08.599 so you will fly a couple thousand feet lower 00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:14.319 than if you used pure helium and you can actually 00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.000 fly hydrogen in these and you'll go about 3 ,000 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:20.839 feet higher and they will last longer. I actually 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:24.640 am able to get a small tank of helium or hydrogen 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:30.119 about a 40 cubic foot tank cost about 20 or 30 00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:34.480 dollars from a welding supply store and They're 00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:36.880 very lightweight single person can carry them 00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:42.400 around you want to have a way of regulating that 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:48.359 with a party balloon filler and a hose and To 00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:51.259 fill up your party balloon, however, and then 00:32:51.259 --> 00:32:54.220 the scientific balloon solutions calm is another 00:32:54.220 --> 00:32:58.470 resource for the larger balloons And but they're 00:32:58.470 --> 00:33:00.630 a lot more expensive than three dollars piece 00:33:00.630 --> 00:33:06.309 for the mylar balloons Other resources like say 00:33:06.309 --> 00:33:11.970 the You could go into a grocery store or a dollar 00:33:11.970 --> 00:33:15.950 general store and you could have them fill up 00:33:15.950 --> 00:33:19.289 your mylar party balloon and I think my local 00:33:19.289 --> 00:33:22.130 store here would do it for a dollar or two and 00:33:22.130 --> 00:33:25.750 That's usually pure helium or good quality helium 00:33:25.750 --> 00:33:29.470 at these stores Some aren't some are, but I know 00:33:29.470 --> 00:33:32.750 the one here turned out to be about 99 % pure. 00:33:33.109 --> 00:33:35.410 And that's one way of doing it. Cause these balloons 00:33:35.410 --> 00:33:38.490 are small enough to carry in a car. Um, don't 00:33:38.490 --> 00:33:40.609 carry them in your car. If you're running hydrogen, 00:33:41.109 --> 00:33:46.869 however, yeah, that may be a, that may be, but 00:33:46.869 --> 00:33:51.490 I, I use fishing line, uh, for the, uh, support 00:33:51.490 --> 00:33:54.750 mechanism to, to attach it to the balloon. And, 00:33:55.269 --> 00:34:01.700 uh, and I use, uh, Kaptone tape, that's a great 00:34:01.700 --> 00:34:04.339 tape to use because it handles the environment 00:34:04.339 --> 00:34:08.699 very well. And I put all the string and everything 00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:14.239 into the packages I mail out and then all you 00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:18.460 have to do is buy a $3 balloon and find heliums 00:34:18.460 --> 00:34:23.199 from somewhere and that's what I would recommend. 00:34:23.389 --> 00:34:25.989 Uh, there are online resources that tell you 00:34:25.989 --> 00:34:28.730 where your building is going to fly. There's 00:34:28.730 --> 00:34:34.809 a, uh, Noah high split it's H Y S P L I T and 00:34:34.809 --> 00:34:38.510 they have a trajectory program that will estimate 00:34:38.510 --> 00:34:41.250 where you're building will fly. Uh, so you get 00:34:41.250 --> 00:34:47.349 an idea of what the jet stream is doing. All 00:34:47.349 --> 00:34:50.429 right. Uh, we've got a call here and we've got 00:34:50.429 --> 00:34:55.780 several. tweets and stuff. So I just want to 00:34:55.780 --> 00:34:58.239 let him know we're here. You got anything else 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.780 you need to throw in on that list real quick? 00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:05.280 No, I'll stand by for the call. Okay, let's take 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.800 our live caller here since we've got the new 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:10.800 phone system. We're testing it out. I told Bill 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.039 he's going to be the guinea pig tonight. So who 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.719 do we have on the phone line here? This is Mark, 00:35:16.820 --> 00:35:20.519 N4BCD Neil. Hi, Mark. Good to hear from you down 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.880 in Huntsville. What's going on tonight? Well, 00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:25.900 I just wanted to wish you and Bill a happy new 00:35:25.900 --> 00:35:27.980 year. Uh, Bill, it's, uh, I knew you were going 00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:30.440 to be on the program. I keep track of these things, 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:33.139 but, uh, you know, I've been fortunate to, uh, 00:35:33.139 --> 00:35:35.599 Bill's a local ham here in the Huntsville area 00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:38.019 and I've known him for a number of years. I've 00:35:38.019 --> 00:35:40.280 seen his program here in Huntsville and in Dayton. 00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:43.300 Uh, Bill, could you describe to the listeners? 00:35:43.579 --> 00:35:47.460 The weight lift testing you do prior to a launch 00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:50.340 to ensure that these mylar balloons successfully 00:35:50.340 --> 00:35:54.539 reach altitude and not go too high and not sink 00:35:54.539 --> 00:35:57.699 That's an excellent question mark and by the 00:35:57.699 --> 00:35:59.780 way mark and I share a last name, but we're not 00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:04.940 related the way I test them is through a lot 00:36:04.940 --> 00:36:07.760 of trial and error and Dumping a lot of these 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:10.360 in the Atlantic Ocean and scattered across the 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.099 southeast. I've done about 50 test flights I've 00:36:15.099 --> 00:36:18.059 optimized the lift to anywhere between two and 00:36:18.059 --> 00:36:21.659 a half grams to four grams on the neck of the 00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:24.719 balloon. That's positive lift above the weight 00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:30.519 of your payload. And the way I test that is a 00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:33.280 nickel weighs five grams and a penny weighs two 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:36.019 and a half grams. So if it just barely lifts 00:36:36.019 --> 00:36:40.199 a penny and nickel causes it to go down, then 00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:42.880 I know I'm near the right lift. But I usually 00:36:42.969 --> 00:36:46.309 create a little baggie with a clip with the right 00:36:46.309 --> 00:36:48.449 amount of weight, which is the payload weight 00:36:48.449 --> 00:36:51.969 plus three grams. Three grams is optimum. And 00:36:51.969 --> 00:36:54.130 I attach that to the neck of the balloon. And 00:36:54.130 --> 00:36:56.949 when that is neutrally buoyant, it's not going 00:36:56.949 --> 00:37:00.170 up or down with that baggie attached, I know 00:37:00.170 --> 00:37:02.369 I've got the weight of the payload plus three 00:37:02.369 --> 00:37:06.329 grams. And I found that is the optimum lift to 00:37:06.329 --> 00:37:08.909 prevent it from bursting when it goes to altitude 00:37:08.909 --> 00:37:14.260 and to allow it to float instead. That's a great 00:37:14.260 --> 00:37:18.559 question, Mark. That's a great thing to see in 00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:22.880 person, guys. Bill, are you going to Dayton again? 00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:27.079 Oh, yes. We're going to have a balloon sat forum 00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:30.019 on Friday, and we're going to have a pico balloon 00:37:30.019 --> 00:37:34.619 race with three pico balloons. So all are welcome 00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:38.860 if you can attend the Dayton convention. I can 00:37:38.860 --> 00:37:42.139 attest to your listeners, too. It's well worth 00:37:42.139 --> 00:37:45.659 seeing because Bill's on a really excellent topic 00:37:45.659 --> 00:37:49.099 here. And I can't imagine anybody that knows 00:37:49.099 --> 00:37:51.780 more about the subject. And looking forward to 00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:54.059 seeing you up there, Bill. And Neil, thanks for 00:37:54.059 --> 00:37:56.739 having me on the show tonight. We'll talk soon 00:37:56.739 --> 00:37:59.320 about the Huntsville Handfest, OK? All right, 00:37:59.420 --> 00:38:02.000 Mark. Thanks for calling in. Appreciate it. And 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:05.869 73. OK. Happy new year. Bye. Bye. All right. 00:38:05.889 --> 00:38:08.429 Happy new year eight one two six five zero nine 00:38:08.429 --> 00:38:10.630 five five six is tonight's phone number It's 00:38:10.630 --> 00:38:13.969 not our usual one, but we've got that. Let's 00:38:13.969 --> 00:38:17.050 start knocking out some of these messages here 00:38:17.050 --> 00:38:22.530 first of all Hank is on Spreaker w4htb says how 00:38:22.530 --> 00:38:25.909 many trackers do you think have been launched 00:38:25.909 --> 00:38:30.050 to date and When are you going to produce a YouTube 00:38:30.050 --> 00:38:36.369 video instruction? That's a good question. As 00:38:36.369 --> 00:38:39.489 far as pico balloons launch, there's probably 00:38:39.489 --> 00:38:44.489 been, I would guess, over a hundred of them worldwide 00:38:44.489 --> 00:38:49.730 by different people. So I've personally done 00:38:49.730 --> 00:38:56.389 about 40 launches myself of pico balloons, and 00:38:56.389 --> 00:38:58.769 I'm working on that YouTube video, instructional 00:38:58.769 --> 00:39:03.559 video. All right, very good. Well, let's see 00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:05.940 here. I'll make sure everything's working here. 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:10.780 Blake in for BWR wants to know what's the ascent 00:39:10.780 --> 00:39:14.780 rate on a Mylar Pico balloon with the Sky Tracker? 00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:20.559 Good question. To achieve success you want to 00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:24.579 be right around one meter per second or less 00:39:24.579 --> 00:39:29.079 ascent rate. If you're under a meter per second 00:39:29.469 --> 00:39:32.469 which is approximately 200 feet per minute or 00:39:32.469 --> 00:39:36.070 less, then you are likely to have success at 00:39:36.070 --> 00:39:38.550 floating a Pico balloon. If you go much over 00:39:38.550 --> 00:39:42.849 that, the balloon will likely over pressure and 00:39:42.849 --> 00:39:46.150 pop when it gets to altitude because you'll have 00:39:46.150 --> 00:39:49.349 a little bit too much excess gas in it and that 00:39:49.349 --> 00:39:53.429 will pop the seams or cause it to burst. But 00:39:53.429 --> 00:39:57.550 that's a good question. All right, let me... 00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:03.960 Get to another question here KC 5 FM says is 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:06.079 it helium hard to get is it expensive? I think 00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:08.559 you answered some of that, but we can we can 00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:12.980 address that real quickly Yes depends where you 00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:18.079 get it from the major companies are sometimes 00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:22.500 restrict helium sales to existing customers or 00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:25.599 large customers and they won't even sell it to 00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:30.380 private individuals or they will jack the rate 00:40:30.380 --> 00:40:35.260 of the cost of the helium tank to $150, $200 00:40:35.260 --> 00:40:39.400 or more. Right now I think it's right around 00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:43.840 $150 for a large tank and like I say I get the 00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:47.909 smaller tanks for about $20 or $30 which A 40 00:40:47.909 --> 00:40:50.329 cubic foot tank is all you need to do a number 00:40:50.329 --> 00:40:53.090 of these Pico balloon flights and once again 00:40:53.090 --> 00:40:58.059 it's very easy to lift by one person. It's not 00:40:58.059 --> 00:41:00.559 so hard to get in small quantities, but the larger 00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:04.320 tanks are harder to get. A lot of amateur radio 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.039 balloon groups are going to hydrogen because 00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:12.699 a big tank of hydrogen are $55 or less. And as 00:41:12.699 --> 00:41:15.639 long as you follow precautions not to create 00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:21.960 sparks, it's perfectly safe. All right. And then, 00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:28.099 um, Josh, W3ARD, who was on our balloon show 00:41:28.099 --> 00:41:30.960 a few weeks ago, has a couple of questions here. 00:41:31.059 --> 00:41:35.139 Are there any issues with a U .S. issued ham 00:41:35.139 --> 00:41:38.820 radio license IDing all over the globe? Do you 00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:41.139 have to have a different license? And then we'll 00:41:41.139 --> 00:41:45.119 follow up with another one here. It depends on 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.079 the countries you're flying over. We have reciprocal 00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:51.659 agreements with many European nations. But if 00:41:51.659 --> 00:41:55.239 there is a question, that's where the geofencing 00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:58.699 algorithm can come in to eliminate transmissions 00:41:58.699 --> 00:42:02.960 above that country. I haven't had any issues 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:07.739 or complaints with flights that we've done, but 00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:13.619 generally it hasn't been an issue to date. Okay, 00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:17.000 and then Josh's other question, any issues with 00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:19.880 uncontrolled balloons drifting over non -friendly 00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:25.579 countries like Libya or North Korea? Once again, 00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:28.400 when I'm over an unfriendly country such as that, 00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:33.079 I do not transmit, and the chances of them actually 00:42:33.079 --> 00:42:36.139 detecting that balloon are probably pretty slim. 00:42:37.699 --> 00:42:41.360 Most radar systems filter out anything that's 00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:46.280 slow moving. or not behaving like an aircraft. 00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:49.440 So although some of these pico balloons in the 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.739 jet stream I have seen observed going 200 miles 00:42:52.739 --> 00:42:55.340 per hour just floating along the jet stream. 00:42:57.500 --> 00:43:02.900 Next question is from Jim K5ND from K2BSA. We 00:43:02.900 --> 00:43:05.760 plan to work with Bill to launch three Pico balloons 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:07.960 at the World Scout Jamboree in West Virginia 00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:13.639 in July and it'll have APRS and Whisper and he 00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:15.639 wants to know if you could talk a little bit 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:21.880 about Whisper. Yes, I have a version that transmits 00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.360 on the Whisper mode and instead of guitar string 00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:26.639 for the antenna wires, which is what I use for 00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:30.440 the two meter version, I use 36 gauge magnet 00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:35.170 wire and fishing line. And it's 17 feet one inch 00:43:35.170 --> 00:43:39.389 up and 17 feet inch down. So it's a little trickier 00:43:39.389 --> 00:43:44.550 to launch But the advantage is on whisper mode 00:43:44.550 --> 00:43:47.110 you can send a very low power transmitter and 00:43:47.110 --> 00:43:51.389 be received worldwide And it has a distributed 00:43:51.389 --> 00:43:54.309 network of ground stations that filter into whisper 00:43:54.309 --> 00:43:58.969 net org So I've actually had a balloon over the 00:43:58.969 --> 00:44:02.400 middle of the Atlantic And the telemetry was 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:05.739 received on the opposite side of the world in 00:44:05.739 --> 00:44:10.019 Perth, Australia, with 25 milliwatts of power. 00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:14.619 That's the beauty of whisper mode. However, whisper 00:44:14.619 --> 00:44:18.219 has a drawback in that you can't, it's very limited 00:44:18.219 --> 00:44:21.400 in the amount of telemetry information you can 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:24.159 send. It's basically a call sign, four -digit 00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:29.280 grid, and a power level. So I send two transmissions 00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:32.780 one has the call sign and the grid square and 00:44:32.780 --> 00:44:36.579 I use the power level for a coarse altitude Then 00:44:36.579 --> 00:44:39.079 I send a second transmission that begins with 00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:43.099 a zero one or Q which are invalid call signs 00:44:43.099 --> 00:44:46.480 But since it's right after my transmission on 00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:51.000 the same frequency, it's technically IDing every 00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:55.159 ten minutes. So I embed the telemetry in that 00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:58.789 call sign and And that includes the fifth and 00:44:58.789 --> 00:45:02.769 sixth digit grid square. And then a fine altitude 00:45:02.769 --> 00:45:05.570 for the power level. And that way, I have a Python 00:45:05.570 --> 00:45:10.449 script that grabs both frames from WhisperNet's 00:45:10.449 --> 00:45:13.829 WhisperNet .org's database, converts it to APRS, 00:45:14.030 --> 00:45:17.210 sends it to an APRS server, and it shows up. 00:45:17.230 --> 00:45:20.130 If you ever see an APRS balloon over the middle 00:45:20.130 --> 00:45:22.849 of the Pacific or the Atlantic, That's how it's 00:45:22.849 --> 00:45:26.030 being done. It's a little Python script is grabbing 00:45:26.030 --> 00:45:29.809 the whisper data. We just had one that the balloon 00:45:29.809 --> 00:45:32.670 failed. It was launched from a high school in 00:45:32.670 --> 00:45:38.329 San Diego, W6SUN -5. And you'll still see it 00:45:38.329 --> 00:45:43.510 if you look for Whiskey Six Sun -5. It was laying 00:45:43.510 --> 00:45:46.889 in the Mojave Desert. The wires were on the ground 00:45:46.889 --> 00:45:50.159 in the sand. it was being received every day 00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:53.119 from a thousand miles away in Texas and Oregon 00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:57.099 and San Francisco and Telling us within a three 00:45:57.099 --> 00:46:01.260 by five mile range where it was Several expeditions 00:46:01.260 --> 00:46:04.179 went in in the sand to try and find it and finally 00:46:04.179 --> 00:46:08.500 mark W6 MAF Drove his Jeep until he got a very 00:46:08.500 --> 00:46:12.440 strong 20 meter signal saw the balloon Started 00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:16.219 reeling in the magnet wire And too much to his 00:46:16.219 --> 00:46:19.260 horror, he discovered that the payload was sitting 00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:24.480 underneath his tire. Oh no. But fortunately it 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:26.940 was just on the solar panel. So he just slightly 00:46:26.940 --> 00:46:29.139 damaged the solar panel. If he'd been over six 00:46:29.139 --> 00:46:31.219 inches, you would have completely destroyed the 00:46:31.219 --> 00:46:33.400 tracker. But he said the signal was very, very 00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:40.219 strong at that point. I imagine so. Oh my goodness. 00:46:40.829 --> 00:46:43.869 So he found a very small needle in a very large 00:46:43.869 --> 00:46:50.230 haystack in the Mojave Desert. Oh my. Well we've 00:46:50.230 --> 00:46:55.750 got a couple more here from LloydKC5FM and I 00:46:55.750 --> 00:46:58.750 think you answered the first one already about 00:46:58.750 --> 00:47:04.599 how heavy the Pico balloon load can be. He says, 00:47:04.659 --> 00:47:08.300 regarding payload retrieval, what's your record 00:47:08.300 --> 00:47:11.420 distance for the return and how many missions 00:47:11.420 --> 00:47:16.400 get retrieved and how many are lost in the haystack? 00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:19.920 Well, I have one that's sitting in a tree in 00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.760 the Ivory Coast of Africa. If you want to go 00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:24.699 out after it, I'll give you the coordinates. 00:47:25.699 --> 00:47:28.519 It was knocked down by a thunderstorm after going 00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:30.559 around six and a half times around the world. 00:47:31.059 --> 00:47:40.659 We had one. that landed in a cornfield in Illinois 00:47:40.659 --> 00:47:47.460 and Mark KA9SZX went out and he de -F'd it with 00:47:47.460 --> 00:47:49.539 signal strength because he didn't have an APRS 00:47:49.539 --> 00:47:53.039 receiver and he was able to find it out in the 00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:55.559 middle of a field and that was launched from 00:47:55.559 --> 00:48:00.219 well that was launched in that area but the farthest 00:48:00.650 --> 00:48:03.389 I'll tell you a story about a latex floater. 00:48:03.510 --> 00:48:06.650 You can float a latex weather balloon as long 00:48:06.650 --> 00:48:08.489 as your payload is under two and a half pounds 00:48:08.489 --> 00:48:12.130 and you go up under 200 feet per minute. It will 00:48:12.130 --> 00:48:16.849 float for about 50 hours or so or less. Then 00:48:16.849 --> 00:48:22.250 finally the UV degrades the latex rubber. But 00:48:22.250 --> 00:48:26.289 K6 RPT launched one from San Francisco, San Jose, 00:48:26.809 --> 00:48:31.700 stayed up 50 hours. It landed in Morocco. He 00:48:31.700 --> 00:48:35.119 a friend of his who lived in Casablanca drove 00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:37.519 out there with two of his friends that could 00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:41.980 speak the language They asked the date farm near 00:48:41.980 --> 00:48:45.119 where they saw the last reading if they'd anybody 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:48.960 had seen it they did they found two date farm 00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:53.300 workers that had found it and they spent a Couple 00:48:53.300 --> 00:48:56.639 hours negotiating a price to get it back because 00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.960 in that country possession is 100 % of ownership 00:49:01.070 --> 00:49:05.289 But they were able to negotiate a fee and they 00:49:05.289 --> 00:49:08.789 got the payload back after flying from San Francisco 00:49:08.789 --> 00:49:17.489 area to Morocco Very interesting Well, it looks 00:49:17.489 --> 00:49:21.389 like we are just a little over time actually 00:49:21.389 --> 00:49:25.150 So we probably should wrap things up here bill, 00:49:25.150 --> 00:49:32.059 but if you have any last comments and website 00:49:32.059 --> 00:49:34.539 where people can check out some of your stuff. 00:49:34.539 --> 00:49:37.280 Why don't we do that and then we're gonna close 00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:41.559 it down for tonight. Yes, you can contact me 00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:46.039 and I can send you some links for pico ballooning 00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:49.679 and regular ballooning and send out some information 00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:54.099 and resources. My email is Whiskey Bravo 8 Echo 00:49:54.099 --> 00:50:00.219 Lima Kilo. That's WB8ELK. at gmail .com or you 00:50:00.219 --> 00:50:06.840 can look at my website on wv8elk .com and thank 00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:09.619 you for having me tonight. Well, thank you for 00:50:09.619 --> 00:50:12.719 coming on and giving us some more information 00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:16.679 about these Pico balloons. That's one of the 00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:19.380 newer things happening with the balloon flight, 00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:22.739 so it was good to hear about that. That is a 00:50:22.739 --> 00:50:25.840 wrap for this week's edition of HamTalk Live. 00:50:26.170 --> 00:50:30.010 Thanks to my guest Bill Brown WB8ELK and everybody 00:50:30.010 --> 00:50:32.650 out there in cyberspace for listening and calling 00:50:32.650 --> 00:50:35.829 in and invite you back next Thursday night and 00:50:35.829 --> 00:50:38.769 we'll be back at our regular phone number at 00:50:38.769 --> 00:50:42.730 9 p .m. Eastern Time when Victor and Dorsoff 00:50:42.730 --> 00:50:49.389 VA2WA, Randy Thompson K5ZD and Bruce Horn WA7B 00:50:49.389 --> 00:50:53.349 &M will be here to talk about live online contest 00:50:53.349 --> 00:50:56.519 scoring and for a list of all of our upcoming 00:50:56.519 --> 00:51:01.000 guests, visit HamTalk Live. And if you like HamTalk 00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:03.679 Live, please consider leaving us a review on 00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:06.480 iTunes or wherever you listen. It helps others 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:11.719 find us faster. And again, thanks to people listening 00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:17.059 to the replay on WTWW 5085 on Saturday nights, 00:51:17.059 --> 00:51:20.920 that's new. So thank you to Ted and the gang 00:51:20.920 --> 00:51:23.760 for getting that set up. So for now, this is 00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:27.679 Neil Rapp, WB9VPG, saying seven three, seven 00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:31.679 five. And may the good DX be yours!