WEBVTT 00:00:09.100 --> 00:00:11.919 Thanks for tuning in. HamTalk Live will be on 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:29.879 the air shortly. Please stand by. Thanks for 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:32.619 tuning in. HamTalk Live will be on the air shortly. 00:00:32.899 --> 00:00:37.880 Please stand by. This episode of HamTalk Live 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:41.479 is brought to you by Tower Electronics. For connectors, 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:47.320 cables and more, call 920 -435 -2973 or visit 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:53.020 PL -259 .com and by ICOM. Heard it? Worked it? 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:58.420 Logged it. Visit www .icomamerica .com slash 00:00:58.420 --> 00:01:02.280 amateur for more information about ICOM radios. 00:01:33.769 --> 00:01:36.730 Hey, good evening everyone. Welcome to HamTalk 00:01:36.730 --> 00:01:41.590 Live. It's episode number 168. Getting started 00:01:41.590 --> 00:01:44.849 with transmitter hunting recorded live on Thursday, 00:01:44.930 --> 00:01:50.409 June 6th, 2019. I'm your host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. 00:01:50.810 --> 00:01:53.650 Thanks for tuning in to this episode of HamTalk 00:01:53.650 --> 00:01:58.189 Live. Tonight, we're joined by Joe Mel, KZeroOV. 00:01:58.459 --> 00:02:01.200 and we'll take your calls in just a few minutes. 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:04.939 Last week, Denny Johnson, KD5DLJ was here to 00:02:04.939 --> 00:02:08.039 talk about the Digicom Cafe. And if you missed 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:10.520 the show, you can listen anytime at hamptalklive 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:14.300 .com or on your favorite podcast app or YouTube. 00:02:14.780 --> 00:02:18.939 And you can also catch the rebroadcast on WTWW 00:02:18.939 --> 00:02:25.370 shortwave 5085 -5085 AM. Saturday evenings at 00:02:25.370 --> 00:02:28.870 about 6 30 p .m. Eastern Time. I do have some 00:02:28.870 --> 00:02:32.090 announcements here at the beginning so forgive 00:02:32.090 --> 00:02:33.849 me for a couple of minutes here but I want to 00:02:33.849 --> 00:02:36.969 let you know about some important things. First 00:02:36.969 --> 00:02:40.210 of all our annual field day question and answer 00:02:40.210 --> 00:02:45.090 session is coming up on June 20th with Bart Yonkey, 00:02:45.150 --> 00:02:49.590 W9JJ. He's the radio sport manager now at ARRL. 00:02:50.370 --> 00:02:52.750 And so if you have last minute field day questions, 00:02:52.969 --> 00:02:55.849 whether it be rule scoring or your setup, be 00:02:55.849 --> 00:02:58.770 sure to call in and ask those. I know it seems 00:02:58.770 --> 00:03:02.389 like we plan everything and then all of a sudden, 00:03:02.389 --> 00:03:06.069 you know, the night before it's like, oh. What 00:03:06.069 --> 00:03:10.389 about this? So this is your chance to call in 00:03:10.389 --> 00:03:14.870 and find out the answer. So again, that's June 00:03:14.870 --> 00:03:18.090 20th and Bart will do his best to answer those. 00:03:18.150 --> 00:03:21.349 So be sure to call in and send in those questions 00:03:21.349 --> 00:03:24.430 and to help check your antennas for field day. 00:03:24.490 --> 00:03:27.789 The 100 watts at a wire tune up event actually 00:03:27.789 --> 00:03:31.330 started just a couple of hours ago or an hour 00:03:31.330 --> 00:03:34.389 ago. I guess it was, but that'll be going all 00:03:34.389 --> 00:03:38.650 this weekend. until 2359 on Sunday so get on 00:03:38.650 --> 00:03:41.729 the air check out your antennas portable or otherwise 00:03:41.729 --> 00:03:46.129 the exchange is a true RST a QTH type of antenna 00:03:46.129 --> 00:03:49.349 power height and your 100 watts and a wire ID 00:03:49.349 --> 00:03:51.189 number if you have one if you don't don't worry 00:03:51.189 --> 00:03:54.449 about it and you can even go get one over at 00:03:54.449 --> 00:03:56.770 100 watts and wire .com and you can even win 00:03:56.770 --> 00:04:00.110 some prizes so Christian wanted us to remind 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:03.819 everybody about that Also, June is a busy month 00:04:03.819 --> 00:04:06.599 of the National Voice of America Museum of Broadcasting 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:10.759 over in Westchester, Ohio. Yesterday was an event 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:13.219 at the Midpoint Library for kids about riding 00:04:13.219 --> 00:04:16.040 the radio waves. And yes, there really is a radio 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.319 inside of that cell phone. And today was the 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:22.839 75th anniversary commemoration of D -Day out 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:25.220 on the front lawn and a special event station. 00:04:25.420 --> 00:04:29.620 And then on Saturday, they're going to roll out 00:04:29.620 --> 00:04:33.579 the Cincinnati Liars Lager beer in celebration 00:04:33.579 --> 00:04:38.579 of the 75th anniversary of the VOA Bethany station. 00:04:38.779 --> 00:04:41.329 There's a short program. Then they're going to 00:04:41.329 --> 00:04:45.050 tap the keg and offer Cincinnati Liars t -shirts 00:04:45.050 --> 00:04:47.550 for sale during the all -day event and a portion 00:04:47.550 --> 00:04:51.250 of the proceeds will go to the museum. And the 00:04:51.250 --> 00:04:54.970 Cincinnati Liars logger sales will be through 00:04:54.970 --> 00:04:57.689 September 21st at Grainworks, which is just down 00:04:57.689 --> 00:05:00.149 the street from them. And that'll benefit the 00:05:00.149 --> 00:05:04.029 museum too. And they'll have 400 numbered and 00:05:04.029 --> 00:05:08.290 bottled. bottles available at the museum fundraiser 00:05:08.290 --> 00:05:12.629 on September 21st. So they'll be on the air from 00:05:12.629 --> 00:05:15.790 WC 8 VOA for field day as well. So if you're 00:05:15.790 --> 00:05:18.889 in town, be sure to stop by. And one last thing. 00:05:18.889 --> 00:05:21.670 A few months ago, Sterling coffee in zero SSC 00:05:21.670 --> 00:05:24.509 was on the show talking about the youth contesting 00:05:24.509 --> 00:05:28.490 program. Well, round two is now in play for the 00:05:28.490 --> 00:05:31.910 IARU HF championships coming up in mid July. 00:05:32.189 --> 00:05:35.180 So if you can host a state for young people, 00:05:35.620 --> 00:05:38.000 or you're a young person who would like to go 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:41.740 operate in that contest, head on over to yark 00:05:41.740 --> 00:05:46.019 .world, that's Y -A -R -C, Young Amateurs Radio 00:05:46.019 --> 00:05:50.709 Club, Y -A -R -C dot world and sign up. And also, 00:05:50.769 --> 00:05:54.569 you can check out the new Youth on the Air Region 00:05:54.569 --> 00:05:57.550 2 social media. They're on Facebook, Twitter, 00:05:57.589 --> 00:06:00.569 and Instagram. And there'll be more opportunities 00:06:00.569 --> 00:06:04.310 for young people and ham radio. And their website 00:06:04.310 --> 00:06:07.670 is also online, but it's under development right 00:06:07.670 --> 00:06:12.230 now. But it's yodaregion2 .org. It's Y -O -T 00:06:12.230 --> 00:06:16.589 -A Region 2, the number 2 .org. So make sure 00:06:16.589 --> 00:06:22.079 you check out Yoda Region 2. online for all the 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:25.420 different youth operating activities out there. 00:06:25.819 --> 00:06:27.579 Okay, well tonight we're going to talk about 00:06:27.579 --> 00:06:31.160 another opportunity that young people and old 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.000 people and everybody in between enjoy and that's 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:36.800 direction finding. So get your questions ready 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:39.540 to go for Joe. If you're listening to us live 00:06:39.540 --> 00:06:42.079 on Thursday night you can call us after the interview 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:47.120 by calling 812 -650 -9556. I'll give that number 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:50.180 again here in a minute. And again later in the 00:06:50.180 --> 00:06:52.339 show when it's time to call in, but I'll give 00:06:52.339 --> 00:06:55.339 that to you so you can write that down or type 00:06:55.339 --> 00:07:01.839 that in. It's 812 -650 -9556. You can also tweet 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:05.459 us. It's at HamTalk Live on Twitter. So I'll 00:07:05.459 --> 00:07:08.480 be back with Joe right after this word from ICOM 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.439 right here on HamTalk Live. Contest from home 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:17.680 or remotely. ICOM's IC9700 is now available and 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:21.329 shipping. Create your own band opening with ICOM's 00:07:21.329 --> 00:07:25.790 newest SDR transceiver, the IC9700. This new 00:07:25.790 --> 00:07:28.870 radio is bringing direct sampling to the UHF 00:07:28.870 --> 00:07:33.009 and VHF week signal world. The IC9700 all -mode 00:07:33.009 --> 00:07:35.670 transceiver is loaded with innovative features 00:07:35.670 --> 00:07:39.389 like dedicated amateur satellite operation, color 00:07:39.389 --> 00:07:42.910 touchscreen, D -star built -in, RF direct sampling 00:07:42.910 --> 00:07:45.910 on two meters and 70 centimeters, dual independent 00:07:45.910 --> 00:07:48.709 receivers capable of full du... Plex, as well 00:07:48.709 --> 00:07:52.189 as dual watch and 100 watts maximum output powers 00:07:52.189 --> 00:07:55.990 on 2 meters, 75 watts on 70 centimeters, and 00:07:55.990 --> 00:08:00.050 10 watts max on 1 .2 gigahertz. For HF, it's 00:08:00.050 --> 00:08:04.310 the SDR every ham once. It's the IC7610. This 00:08:04.310 --> 00:08:06.550 high -performance SDR has the ability to pick 00:08:06.550 --> 00:08:08.790 out the faintest of signals even in the presence 00:08:08.790 --> 00:08:12.610 of stronger adjacent ones. The ICOM IC7610 is 00:08:12.610 --> 00:08:15.110 a direct sampling software -defined radio that 00:08:15.110 --> 00:08:17.790 will change the world's definition of an SDR 00:08:17.790 --> 00:08:22.290 transceiver. It has RF direct sampling, 110 dB 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:26.449 RMDR. independent dual receiver, and dual digicel, 00:08:26.649 --> 00:08:29.949 and the IC7300 is changing the way entry -level 00:08:29.949 --> 00:08:32.590 HF is designed, this high -performance innovative 00:08:32.590 --> 00:08:35.690 HF transceiver with a compact design will far 00:08:35.690 --> 00:08:38.710 exceed your expectations with RF direct sampling, 00:08:39.090 --> 00:08:42.549 15 discrete bandpass filters, a large 4 .3 -inch 00:08:42.549 --> 00:08:44.830 color touchscreen, real -time spectrum scope, 00:08:45.070 --> 00:08:48.750 SD memory card slot, and more. Visit icomamerica 00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:52.350 .com slash amateur for more information on ICOM 00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:55.179 Radio. and don't forget to be ham active in June. 00:08:55.419 --> 00:08:58.399 Participate in both the June VHF contest as well 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:01.120 as field day. Submit your logs and see how you 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:04.659 did in the pile -up. At HamTalk Live we have 00:09:04.659 --> 00:09:07.659 a million dollar request guarantee. You give 00:09:07.659 --> 00:09:10.159 us a million dollars and we'll do a show about 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:29.909 whatever ham topic you request, guaranteed. Thanks 00:09:29.909 --> 00:09:33.610 again to ICOM America for helping bring HamTalk 00:09:33.610 --> 00:09:39.090 Live to you each and every week. Be sure to check 00:09:39.090 --> 00:09:42.570 us out at HamTalkLive .com and on Facebook, Twitter, 00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:46.350 and Instagram. Our guest tonight is Joe Mell, 00:09:46.429 --> 00:09:51.149 KZeroOV. Joe's a registered professional electronic 00:09:51.149 --> 00:09:56.370 engineer and has an active amateur radio enthusiast. 00:09:56.620 --> 00:09:59.980 Since age 11, Joe has 50 years of experience 00:09:59.980 --> 00:10:03.100 designing radio frequency circuits and systems 00:10:03.100 --> 00:10:06.799 for broadcast, communications, and radar ranging 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:10.879 from near DC to microwave. He's designed new 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:13.279 devices for radio direction finding and has written 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.909 about RDF and other topics for almost every ham 00:10:16.909 --> 00:10:20.669 radio publication in the US. In February 1998 00:10:20.669 --> 00:10:25.809 he was appointed by ARRL as the USA's first ARDF 00:10:25.809 --> 00:10:28.870 coordinator to promote international style fox 00:10:28.870 --> 00:10:32.909 hunting and to organize Team USA for international 00:10:32.909 --> 00:10:36.950 ARDF competitions. He also conducts the annual 00:10:36.950 --> 00:10:40.529 CQ Worldwide Fox Hunting Weekend, and Joe collaborated 00:10:40.529 --> 00:10:45.450 with Tom WB6UZZ to write Transmitter Hunting, 00:10:46.070 --> 00:10:48.950 Radio Direction Finding Simplified, which is 00:10:48.950 --> 00:10:51.590 a comprehensive text on radio direction finding 00:10:51.590 --> 00:10:55.389 and has written over 270 published articles on 00:10:55.389 --> 00:10:58.470 the subject, including his monthly homing in 00:10:58.470 --> 00:11:02.149 columns that ran for 15 years in 73 amateur radio 00:11:02.149 --> 00:11:06.759 today magazine. also in CQVHF, CQ Plus Digital 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:11.039 Magazine, and now four times a year in CQ Magazine. 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:14.679 And as a technical advisor to ARRL, he authored 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.379 a new chapter on radio direction finding for 00:11:17.379 --> 00:11:21.700 the ARRL Handbook and has made over a hundred 00:11:21.700 --> 00:11:24.340 presentations on transmitter hunting to clubs, 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:27.720 conventions, classes, and seminars on Joe's website. 00:11:29.389 --> 00:11:32.570 homingin .com is one of the leading resources 00:11:32.570 --> 00:11:35.909 of direction -finding information in the world. 00:11:36.149 --> 00:11:40.330 And I remember him from hearing all about this 00:11:40.330 --> 00:11:43.590 stuff on Newsline over the years. So Joe, welcome 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:47.009 to HamTalk Live. Well, thanks for inviting me. 00:11:47.009 --> 00:11:50.190 This is going to be fun. Yeah, this is going 00:11:50.190 --> 00:11:52.110 to be fun. We're going to start back at the very 00:11:52.110 --> 00:11:54.590 beginning for some people who haven't got into 00:11:54.590 --> 00:11:58.159 this tonight. and maybe we'll get further into 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:04.159 this as time marches on. But let's start at the 00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:07.220 beginning tonight and talk a little bit about 00:12:07.220 --> 00:12:12.679 how this all got started and the different types 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:16.460 of transmitter hunts you can do and all these 00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:18.460 different names, Fox Hunt, Transmitter Hunt, 00:12:18.580 --> 00:12:22.610 Direction Find, are they all the same? Well, 00:12:22.649 --> 00:12:24.649 if they've had different names over the years 00:12:24.649 --> 00:12:26.450 and different names mean different things to 00:12:26.450 --> 00:12:28.450 different people it all started You know I did 00:12:28.450 --> 00:12:31.429 some research on on this in terms of the history 00:12:31.429 --> 00:12:34.070 and discovered that the very first hidden transmitter 00:12:34.070 --> 00:12:36.029 hunts were at a double oral conventions in the 00:12:36.029 --> 00:12:38.929 1930s where they would go around and you know, 00:12:38.950 --> 00:12:42.210 these were Big transmitters, but they would put 00:12:42.210 --> 00:12:44.590 in a room of the convention and invite people 00:12:44.590 --> 00:12:47.429 to go find them and they would use an earphone 00:12:47.429 --> 00:12:50.740 and put a crystal diode across it and use that 00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:53.120 for the receiver because these were AM transmitters 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:56.179 and Go find them that way. So it's really progressed 00:12:56.179 --> 00:13:00.120 a lot since then when I was Just a teenager. 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.580 I went on hidden transmitter hunts in the car 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:05.820 on 75 meters and they were also popular on 10 00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:08.720 meters Those are the two bands in the 50s that 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:11.740 were used for transmitter hunting And as the 00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:13.720 days have gone by or as the years have gone by 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:17.179 it's gone to mostly two meters for the mobile 00:13:17.179 --> 00:13:19.669 transmitter Almost all of them now are on two 00:13:19.669 --> 00:13:21.450 meters. Occasionally we have six meter hunts 00:13:21.450 --> 00:13:24.309 here in Southern California. We have had 10 meter 00:13:24.309 --> 00:13:28.490 hunts from time to time. But in terms of the 00:13:28.490 --> 00:13:30.529 on foot transmitter hunts, which are kind of 00:13:30.529 --> 00:13:32.809 a completely separate animal, they're usually 00:13:32.809 --> 00:13:37.009 on two meters or 80 meters. And it became a worldwide 00:13:37.009 --> 00:13:41.370 sport in the early 1980s was the very first. 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:43.960 world championships of direction finding and 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.539 that was all on foot and it was really, and you 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:49.940 will hear this term, radio -orienteering and 00:13:49.940 --> 00:13:52.039 that's really the term they use over in Europe 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:55.480 and a lot of other places where you have a map 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:58.759 and compass and the transmitters are out there 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.159 and your job is to find them and it can be a 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:04.539 pretty big area and that's the... international 00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:07.460 rules that are used nowadays for national and 00:14:07.460 --> 00:14:10.259 international championships. Most hams, though, 00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:13.039 are involved in the mobile transmitter hunts. 00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:15.500 Everybody gets together either at the same start 00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:17.860 place or start where you want to, and there's 00:14:17.860 --> 00:14:20.139 a transmitter out there, and you just drive until 00:14:20.139 --> 00:14:24.399 you find it. And that's scored either by mileage, 00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:27.259 if you all start from the same place, which encourages 00:14:27.259 --> 00:14:30.000 you to not drive too fast, or time. Whoever gets 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:34.320 them first wins. That's a real brief summary 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.639 of the kinds of hunts that there are. Uh, we 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:41.139 can go into more detail as you wish. Okay. Well, 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:43.559 let's, uh, let's gotta give the overview here 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:45.980 and then hopefully we'll get into the detail. 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.519 Um, when the questions roll in hopefully here. 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:53.500 Uh, but let's talk about, if you want to organize 00:14:53.500 --> 00:14:56.159 and I, and I know I've got a group of people 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:00.279 down in Florida at N1 KSC listening to this. 00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:04.230 If you want to organize, transmitter hunt you've 00:15:04.230 --> 00:15:06.549 never done this before because this is the boat 00:15:06.549 --> 00:15:12.750 they're in right now what would you do for the 00:15:12.750 --> 00:15:15.669 transmitters and let's talk about both cases 00:15:15.669 --> 00:15:19.149 you know on foot or the mobile so that way we 00:15:19.149 --> 00:15:21.750 cover all the territory but what would you do 00:15:21.750 --> 00:15:25.409 to get a a hidden transmitter out there for people 00:15:25.409 --> 00:15:28.820 to go find Yeah, you know the transmitter is 00:15:28.820 --> 00:15:31.600 the easiest part of it for the most part I mean 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:34.659 It can be something as simple if you want to 00:15:34.659 --> 00:15:36.860 get a group started in transmitter hunting Have 00:15:36.860 --> 00:15:38.860 somebody come on after the weekly net on the 00:15:38.860 --> 00:15:41.620 local repeater and say I'm out here in my car 00:15:41.620 --> 00:15:44.080 somewhere And I want you to come and find me 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.080 and you can be you know just on a transmitter 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.200 talking occasionally you know not maybe not continuously 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:54.279 but Just just every you know minute or so and 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:56.820 that's all it really takes to get started Now 00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:59.340 automatic transmitters are a lot better in terms 00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:02.980 of being Something you can conceal something 00:16:02.980 --> 00:16:05.759 that's a little bit harder to find But we always 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.759 recommend that the first time that your group 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:09.799 does make it really really simple because you 00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:12.600 want everybody to succeed and you want everybody 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.120 to get together at a restaurant afterwards and 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.840 Talk about it and see how much fun you had and 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.019 then come up with ideas for for the next time 00:16:21.019 --> 00:16:25.159 So for instance when I do this with my school 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:29.600 group I get them all situated and everything 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:34.440 and then I take off and I remember to turn off 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:39.539 my APRS so they can't find where I'm going. And 00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:43.779 I transmit for one minute every five minutes. 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:49.299 And so they get their bearing and then they move 00:16:49.299 --> 00:16:51.419 and then they get another bearing and they move 00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:55.350 and they keep doing that. I don't have to get 00:16:55.350 --> 00:16:59.450 one of these automatic transmitters to do that. 00:16:59.490 --> 00:17:02.029 I just look at my watch and say, okay, it's time 00:17:02.029 --> 00:17:05.250 to transmit again. And so that may be an easy 00:17:05.250 --> 00:17:08.009 way to start, but what about if you wanted to 00:17:08.009 --> 00:17:10.490 do one on foot? Then you wanted one of those 00:17:10.490 --> 00:17:14.509 automatic transmitters that you can just hide 00:17:14.509 --> 00:17:20.170 in a park or something that's a little more contained 00:17:20.170 --> 00:17:22.269 and you don't have to spend the money on the 00:17:22.269 --> 00:17:26.660 gas. Okay, well... Generally speaking, you're 00:17:26.660 --> 00:17:28.759 going to want a small box or something like that 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:31.380 that you can conceal if you're in a park so that 00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:34.140 you're not right out in the open. There are commercial 00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:36.619 units you can buy. There's so -called Squawk 00:17:36.619 --> 00:17:41.420 Box by the fellow in Santa Barbara. There is 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:44.599 Bionics, makes a couple of little transmitters 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.220 that you can buy. If you don't want to buy something, 00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:51.059 get an ammo can or a big plastic box, put a Baofeng 00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:53.970 or other inexpensive... Oh, wait a minute. You 00:17:53.970 --> 00:18:00.470 said the Balfam word. I'm sorry. Okay, we got 00:18:00.470 --> 00:18:07.730 it. Okay. Or a Wushan, how's that? Yeah, there 00:18:07.730 --> 00:18:11.420 you go. We don't have a Wushan. All right. Anyway, 00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:15.559 there are devices that you can hook to a radio 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.039 like that called, such as the pick -on. A lot 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.140 of people are making these. They're fairly easy 00:18:20.140 --> 00:18:22.539 to make with an Arduino or a Raspberry Pi or 00:18:22.539 --> 00:18:24.640 something like that, that just sends little deedle 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:27.980 -deedle tones, we call them, that maybe transmit 00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:30.559 for 15 seconds and then go off for 15 seconds. 00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:34.339 I recommend that... the duty cycle be about 50 00:18:34.339 --> 00:18:36.779 percent that saves your battery but it also makes 00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:39.119 it a little easier to find it first. One minute 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.599 out of five gets a little trickier but it depends 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:44.880 on the skill level of the hunters certainly but 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.059 there are easily things that you can find to 00:18:47.059 --> 00:18:50.359 hook to inexpensive radios to make a hidden transmitter. 00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:56.440 So if you get one of these and you can get these 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:59.440 little kits even that you put together and it 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:02.829 like you know turns the transmitter on and plays 00:19:02.829 --> 00:19:07.089 a recording and then turns off. And, and so you 00:19:07.089 --> 00:19:10.910 can set these things up and just turn people 00:19:10.910 --> 00:19:13.799 loose on them. I've known somebody that have 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:16.240 made them out of old cell phones But you know 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:17.900 all you really need is something like a little 00:19:17.900 --> 00:19:21.079 mp3 player and you make a continuous recording 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:23.839 that repeats You know make a make a file that 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:27.500 repeats Continuously a file maybe a minute long 00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:31.980 and if the radio has a vox on it as some of the 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:34.420 Chinese radios do all you have to do is feed 00:19:34.420 --> 00:19:36.859 that into the microphone jack turn it on and 00:19:36.859 --> 00:19:39.519 it will key up the transmitter when When it's 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:42.910 time to transmit I hadn't even thought of that. 00:19:43.069 --> 00:19:47.789 That's a good hack there. Okay, very good. Well 00:19:47.789 --> 00:19:50.089 let's talk about the receivers then. We've talked 00:19:50.089 --> 00:19:53.190 about putting some transmitters out there. Let's 00:19:53.190 --> 00:19:56.329 talk about the options for some of these receivers 00:19:56.329 --> 00:20:00.579 and antennas are really important too. Well, 00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:02.460 okay, let's make it simple because we'll and 00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:04.579 talk about the on foot hunts first because almost 00:20:04.579 --> 00:20:07.299 everybody uses the same technology for that and 00:20:07.299 --> 00:20:08.839 of course We're going to talk about two meters 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:10.519 at this point. Although you could probably do 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:14.440 the same thing for 440 just different antenna 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.940 size. But generally speaking, it's a directional 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.940 antenna such as a Yagi. And for on -foot use, 00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:25.319 the by far most popular option is the measuring 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:29.039 tape beam. Designs are easy to find on the web. 00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:31.900 Typically, a three -element beam for two meters 00:20:31.900 --> 00:20:35.779 is fairly compact and easy to make. All you need 00:20:35.779 --> 00:20:38.920 is the measuring tape, some PVC pipe, and the 00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:40.940 coax fittings, and a little soldering, and you're 00:20:40.940 --> 00:20:43.319 done. There are even kits available if you want 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:46.299 to do that and you just hook that up to the two 00:20:46.299 --> 00:20:49.539 meter receiver and you can hunt except that as 00:20:49.539 --> 00:20:52.940 you get close you will you won't be able to get 00:20:52.940 --> 00:20:55.920 bearings anymore the receiver will be overloaded 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.240 so somebody came up some years ago with a very 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:02.640 clever idea and that's called the offset attenuator 00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:07.460 which is basically a little box that has a crystal 00:21:07.460 --> 00:21:10.019 oscillator of maybe two megahertz four megahertz 00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:15.319 and a mixer and with that box you actually move 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:17.180 the frequency of the signal you're listening 00:21:17.180 --> 00:21:20.740 to two or four megahertz and you listen on the 00:21:20.740 --> 00:21:24.359 offset frequency and with the control that you 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.119 controls the oscillator level into the mixer 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:32.660 you can actually Dial down the input signal by 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:35.319 maybe a hundred DB so you can walk right up to 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:37.720 a hidden transmitter And that works very very 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:39.980 well and those that's the most popular way that 00:21:39.980 --> 00:21:42.680 people get started in on foot transmitter hunting 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:47.779 there are receiver boxes you can buy There's 00:21:47.779 --> 00:21:50.900 even a very sophisticated one that is used by 00:21:50.900 --> 00:21:55.029 people in the in the you know, on the world stage 00:21:55.029 --> 00:21:57.930 that is made by Rig Expert. It's a new one that 00:21:57.930 --> 00:22:01.750 just came out. But the other one we call the 00:22:01.750 --> 00:22:04.369 Blue Box, which is made in Australia, is very, 00:22:04.369 --> 00:22:07.269 very popular also. Those boxes will cost you 00:22:07.269 --> 00:22:09.750 a couple hundred dollars, and the Rig Expert 00:22:09.750 --> 00:22:13.349 one will cost you even more. But that's why most 00:22:13.349 --> 00:22:16.089 people get started with the simple measuring 00:22:16.089 --> 00:22:18.349 tape beam and the offset attenuator for the two 00:22:18.349 --> 00:22:22.799 -meter band. Okay, and then what about mobile? 00:22:23.980 --> 00:22:28.559 Okay for mobile again tastes differ Here in Southern 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.019 California almost everybody also uses some sort 00:22:32.019 --> 00:22:34.720 of a beam antenna typically a Yagi or a quad 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:36.980 and we actually mount them on the vehicle so 00:22:36.980 --> 00:22:38.420 that you can turn them either through a hole 00:22:38.420 --> 00:22:41.160 in the roof or maybe through the window on the 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.460 passenger side or something like that. The reason 00:22:43.460 --> 00:22:45.599 we do that is oftentimes at the start of our 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.059 hunts the signals are fairly weak and you wouldn't 00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:49.680 even be able to hear them if you didn't have 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.380 a beam antenna and as you drive along you turn 00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:54.839 that. Clearly if you don't have a way to mount 00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.359 it, yes you can do the technique you may where 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.799 you stop the car, get out, take a bearing, get 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:01.819 back in the car and drive. That's an option, 00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:04.380 but it's a little hard to do in Southern California 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:07.119 traffic, so most people actually mount the antennas. 00:23:07.460 --> 00:23:10.099 Now there are other ways to get bearings, such 00:23:10.099 --> 00:23:13.680 as the Doppler systems, which you can buy. They 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:16.799 work well... When the signal is really strong 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:19.799 when the signal is vertically polarized They 00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:23.160 can work well, but you know you may or may not 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.400 have any control over what the hider is using 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:28.660 if he's horizontally polarized or if he's Very 00:23:28.660 --> 00:23:33.279 very weak you really need that beam antenna Okay, 00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:36.279 so there's some options and and and the trick 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:39.400 I always do is when I get really really close 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:43.859 Is just get rid of the antenna altogether? You 00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:47.640 can do that certainly and And you're right. I 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:49.599 didn't mention that you also need an antenna 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:51.819 for mobile hunting if you're using a beam antenna. 00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:54.579 That can be a resistive antenna. Generally speaking, 00:23:55.140 --> 00:23:57.460 you have to be really, really close before the 00:23:57.460 --> 00:23:59.359 signal starts going directly into the receiver. 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.000 So that's not usually a problem. So you will 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.980 also want a resistive antenna. Or as you say, 00:24:05.859 --> 00:24:08.700 there's other ways to knock down the signal, 00:24:08.779 --> 00:24:10.819 whether you're mobile or on foot, which might 00:24:10.819 --> 00:24:13.420 even include taking off the antenna, tuning 5 00:24:13.420 --> 00:24:16.609 or 10 KC off the frequency of the transmitter. 00:24:17.069 --> 00:24:19.269 Some people put the paper clip into the antenna 00:24:19.269 --> 00:24:22.150 just to give them a tiny little antenna to listen 00:24:22.150 --> 00:24:24.769 with. Those are all techniques that people use. 00:24:26.690 --> 00:24:29.069 Alright, well hopefully we've got everybody kind 00:24:29.069 --> 00:24:34.109 of with an appetite now and we're going to take 00:24:34.109 --> 00:24:36.730 a break and we're going to come back and start 00:24:36.730 --> 00:24:44.390 taking questions on Twitter and at 812 -650 -9556. 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:47.259 and get into this a little bit more with Joe 00:24:47.259 --> 00:24:50.359 Mel, KZeroOV, when we come back after this word 00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:53.299 from Tower Electronics right here on HamTalk 00:24:53.299 --> 00:24:58.079 Live. I'm sorry to bother you, but I'm having 00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:01.500 an antenna party and I ran out of PL259s. Oh, 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:05.680 come in. Thank you. Would silver plated PL259s 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:08.819 from Tower Electronics be too good for your guests? 00:25:09.220 --> 00:25:12.750 Those will be fine. Thank you. You saved my life 00:25:12.750 --> 00:25:16.390 the other night. Oh, the PL -259s from Tower 00:25:16.390 --> 00:25:19.269 Electronics? Yes, they were very successful at 00:25:19.269 --> 00:25:22.190 the antenna party. My antenna works like a charm. 00:25:22.690 --> 00:25:25.690 Then how can you ever thank me? I'll try to think 00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:29.230 of something. Don't be caught without PL -259s. 00:25:29.269 --> 00:25:31.849 Visit Tower Electronics at a ham fest near you. 00:25:32.109 --> 00:25:35.930 Or visit them online anytime at PL -259 .com. 00:25:36.140 --> 00:25:41.200 or call 920 -435 -2973. They have adapters, cables, 00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:44.160 antennas, soldering supplies, and meters too. 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:47.920 If a man says something in the woods and there 00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:50.799 are no women there, is he still wrong? You're 00:25:50.799 --> 00:26:11.400 listening to HamTalk Live with Neil Rapp. Thanks 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:14.920 to Tower Electronics for sponsoring the show 00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:18.259 again. The HamFest schedule, June 16th, they're 00:26:18.259 --> 00:26:20.720 in Monroe, Michigan for the Father's Day Fest 00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:24.380 there. And July 6th in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, 00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:28.059 or you can visit them anytime at pl -259 .com. 00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:30.660 And it's a great place to get all your connectors 00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:33.319 and adapters for all your radios for direction 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.180 finding. So ties right in with what we're talking 00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:38.200 about tonight. HamTalk Live's on the air every 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.430 Thursday night, 9 p .m. Eastern Time right here 00:26:41.430 --> 00:26:44.069 at HamTalkLive .com. Be sure to check us out. 00:26:44.430 --> 00:26:47.130 On Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, and it's 00:26:47.130 --> 00:26:50.569 time now for your call. So if you have a question 00:26:50.569 --> 00:26:58.089 for Joe, give us a call at 812 -650 -9556. Again, 00:26:58.230 --> 00:27:04.730 it's 812 -650 -9556. Or you can tweet us, it's 00:27:04.730 --> 00:27:07.730 at HamTalk Live on Twitter. And if you're on 00:27:07.730 --> 00:27:10.029 Spreaker, you can type in the comments there 00:27:10.029 --> 00:27:12.849 too. But if you're listening to us on the podcast 00:27:12.849 --> 00:27:17.160 edition or on WTWW. We're not live on there, 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:20.140 so you won't be able to reach us tonight. But 00:27:20.140 --> 00:27:25.539 give us a call at 812 -650 -9556 and ask your 00:27:25.539 --> 00:27:29.900 questions for Joe Mel, KZeroOV. And Joe, we didn't 00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:34.420 talk about... some of the rules that you might 00:27:34.420 --> 00:27:37.940 want to say okay well you're only within you 00:27:37.940 --> 00:27:42.240 know five miles or ten miles or and for some 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.799 of these competitions you've got all kinds of 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:47.519 rules that are out there why don't we talk a 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:50.380 little bit about setting up some rules for your 00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:54.140 hunt Okay, well it's and that's one of the things 00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:57.119 I like when I write up the CQ worldwide fox hunting 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.099 weekend Results and that is in the mobile hunts. 00:28:00.140 --> 00:28:02.779 There's no two alike Every place is different 00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:04.839 and every group is different in what in terms 00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:07.140 of what they want out here in Southern, California 00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:09.559 There's a lot of hunters that would prefer just 00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:12.779 a signal to hunt no rules of any kind But that's 00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:14.680 a little unusual particularly for beginners. 00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:17.579 So generally speaking there needs to be a boundary 00:28:17.849 --> 00:28:20.849 You need to know, and sometimes that's just like 00:28:20.849 --> 00:28:23.190 15 mile radius of the start point or whatever, 00:28:24.230 --> 00:28:27.470 or something even more geographical in terms 00:28:27.470 --> 00:28:29.990 of roads or something like that. So you need 00:28:29.990 --> 00:28:32.769 a boundary. There should be some understanding 00:28:32.769 --> 00:28:34.910 as to whether or not the signal is going to be 00:28:34.910 --> 00:28:38.970 continuous or intermittent. There may be a rule 00:28:38.970 --> 00:28:40.990 in terms of the polarization of the antenna or 00:28:40.990 --> 00:28:43.269 there may not. It's just really up to the group. 00:28:43.950 --> 00:28:46.329 There may be a rule in terms of how close it 00:28:46.329 --> 00:28:49.660 needs to be to a pin. paved road. The typical 00:28:49.660 --> 00:28:53.190 rule we have in our Fullerton hunts is within 00:28:53.190 --> 00:28:55.829 100 feet of access by standard passenger car, 00:28:56.109 --> 00:28:57.910 and that could mean that it's up on the international 00:28:57.910 --> 00:29:01.230 world. There's a very strict set of rules for 00:29:01.230 --> 00:29:03.750 international competitions. Of course, we have 00:29:03.750 --> 00:29:06.829 the USA Direction Finding Championships every 00:29:06.829 --> 00:29:09.369 year someplace. This year it's in North Carolina, 00:29:09.390 --> 00:29:12.009 and we follow a very strict set of rules that's 00:29:12.009 --> 00:29:14.730 set up by an international committee because 00:29:14.730 --> 00:29:18.210 the people that win those hunts are going to 00:29:18.210 --> 00:29:21.390 be going on to competitions around the world. 00:29:22.029 --> 00:29:26.029 to expect in terms of the transmissions. I won't 00:29:26.029 --> 00:29:27.950 go into a lot of detail on those rules because 00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:30.549 they're very easy to find on the web at homingin 00:29:30.549 --> 00:29:32.869 .com and elsewhere and you can kind of read up 00:29:32.869 --> 00:29:35.109 about what to expect but that's what happens 00:29:35.109 --> 00:29:37.730 when you get into the strict world of on -foot 00:29:37.730 --> 00:29:39.190 hunting but of course if you're having a hunt 00:29:39.190 --> 00:29:41.250 in the park in your hamfest you can make the 00:29:41.250 --> 00:29:44.349 rules anything you want. All right, very good. 00:29:44.650 --> 00:29:47.849 What are some of the crazy things you've seen 00:29:47.849 --> 00:29:55.059 people do on these mobile hunts? Well, when I 00:29:55.059 --> 00:29:57.180 give a talk, one of the things I show is some 00:29:57.180 --> 00:30:00.819 pictures of the hunk, for example, that was on 00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:03.380 a Sunday afternoon and everybody ended up in 00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:05.400 a park and there was a young lady sunning in 00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:09.119 the park and she was on a blanket and she was 00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:11.119 barely the only thing around and the signal really 00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:15.009 seemed to be coming from her. And so I have a 00:30:15.009 --> 00:30:17.690 picture of the two of the hunters pointing their 00:30:17.690 --> 00:30:19.809 beams at her and saying would you mind getting 00:30:19.809 --> 00:30:25.849 up off the blanket and And she did and it wasn't 00:30:25.849 --> 00:30:28.809 under the blanket in fact the signal moved with 00:30:28.809 --> 00:30:32.410 her as It turned out the hider had done used 00:30:32.410 --> 00:30:34.849 a very very small transmitter that was sewn in 00:30:34.849 --> 00:30:40.420 to the top of her bikini. Oh my goodness Now 00:30:40.420 --> 00:30:42.359 that's probably the most outrageous hunt that 00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:47.619 story that else very out That's almost unbelievable. 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:51.460 Oh my goodness some of the things you can't do 00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:53.380 anymore I've heard of some of the crazy things 00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:55.539 that they did back in the 50s. For example putting 00:30:55.539 --> 00:30:58.559 a transmitter Under the seat in the departure 00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.539 lounge at Los Angeles Airport. Now you can't 00:31:01.539 --> 00:31:07.400 do that anymore so they were somewhat limited 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:09.839 but these are the sort of crazy things that you 00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:13.039 will sometimes find now see I was expecting a 00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:16.960 story like well they pointed a beam at a water 00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:19.980 tower and bounced it off of the water tower or 00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:26.230 you know I wasn't quite expecting That's just 00:31:26.230 --> 00:31:28.549 too common nowadays in Southern California. I 00:31:28.549 --> 00:31:30.309 don't know what it's like, you know, where you 00:31:30.309 --> 00:31:32.849 are, but in Southern California, almost everybody 00:31:32.849 --> 00:31:35.150 bounces a signal off a beam because if you're 00:31:35.150 --> 00:31:37.470 down low, you know, and you have to get a signal 00:31:37.470 --> 00:31:39.109 to the starting point and there's a lot of hills 00:31:39.109 --> 00:31:41.690 between you, you try to bounce it off a mountain 00:31:41.690 --> 00:31:43.869 and we have the mountains to do that here in 00:31:43.869 --> 00:31:46.829 Southern California and that's what a lot of 00:31:46.829 --> 00:31:49.730 the hunters do. So that's just kind of standard 00:31:49.730 --> 00:31:54.480 operating procedure. And you'll experience it. 00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:57.740 And you can bounce it off buildings, too. In 00:31:57.740 --> 00:32:00.799 the urban jungles, there are stories about people 00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:02.940 that have put transmitters in high -rise buildings, 00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:05.000 which, again, is a little bit difficult to do 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.660 nowadays. But it really, in downtown Los Angeles, 00:32:07.779 --> 00:32:09.720 that makes it particularly difficult to find, 00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:16.089 too. Let's invite people again to write in here 00:32:16.089 --> 00:32:21.970 at HamTalk Live on Twitter or call 812 -650 -9556. 00:32:21.990 --> 00:32:23.950 We'll keep going, but if you have a question, 00:32:25.230 --> 00:32:31.410 please chime in. What do you do when you find 00:32:31.410 --> 00:32:35.630 the transmitter? Is there a way that you can... 00:32:36.230 --> 00:32:38.670 Actually prove that you found the transmitter, 00:32:39.150 --> 00:32:41.029 you know now in a mobile hunt You know, it's 00:32:41.029 --> 00:32:43.829 obvious because there's you know an operator 00:32:43.829 --> 00:32:46.029 sitting there with with everything But if you 00:32:46.029 --> 00:32:48.170 do the automatic ones, what do you do to make 00:32:48.170 --> 00:32:50.670 sure that people actually found the transmitter? 00:32:51.750 --> 00:32:54.329 Well, typically there is a sign -in sheet where 00:32:54.329 --> 00:32:56.049 the transmitter is and you'll sign in and if 00:32:56.049 --> 00:32:58.329 it's a mileage hunt You'll put down your mileage. 00:32:58.529 --> 00:33:02.619 That's an interesting Kind of fine point of the 00:33:02.619 --> 00:33:04.740 rules because it is a transmitter out and your 00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:07.559 job is to find the transmitter but sometimes 00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.940 finding the transmitter is not is is is not what's 00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:14.839 going to happen because on one of our hunts again, 00:33:14.859 --> 00:33:16.839 we have the transmitter has to be within a hundred 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:20.720 feet of a standard passenger car, but sometimes 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.359 The hider will use 500 feet of coax and put the 00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:27.980 antenna on the other side of a hill and even 00:33:27.980 --> 00:33:30.099 though the transmitter is right next to the road 00:33:30.099 --> 00:33:33.539 The signal is really not coming from the transmitter, 00:33:33.980 --> 00:33:36.519 it's coming from over the hill, which can really, 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.660 shall we say, mess up the hunters. So you obviously 00:33:40.660 --> 00:33:42.880 sometimes have to look with your eyes. There 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:46.339 are times when hiders will put out decoy transmitters 00:33:46.339 --> 00:33:49.119 or decoy something that looks like a transmitter. 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.559 And we've had instances where people have signed 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:53.880 in on a mobile hunt and they weren't signing 00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:55.759 in at the real transmitter and so their score 00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:58.319 didn't count. So one of the things you'll... 00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:00.759 One of the things you'll want to do is use your 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:03.380 sniffing gear, your close -in direction finding 00:34:03.380 --> 00:34:06.279 gear, to make absolutely sure that what you found 00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:09.400 is the hidden transmitter. Again, this is on 00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:11.559 the mobile hunts, on the on -foot hunts, and 00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:15.400 in the international hunts. Usually, it's a lot 00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:17.039 easier to distinguish. You're going to find a 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.199 little box the size of a chalkboard eraser. To 00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:22.739 prove that you found it, there's a number of 00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:25.159 ways to do it. There are orienteering punches 00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:27.460 that are sometimes attached, and you punch a 00:34:27.460 --> 00:34:29.679 card that you carry to prove that you found it. 00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.079 One of the things I do often times is put a sticker 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:36.280 on the transmitter with a little three -digit 00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:38.559 number, and you write down that number on your 00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:40.059 card, and when you bring it back, we check, and 00:34:40.059 --> 00:34:41.820 yes, you got the right number, so you proved 00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:44.059 that you found it. So there's various ways to 00:34:44.059 --> 00:34:50.079 do that. 812 -650 -9556 is the phone number. 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:54.000 Let's talk a little bit about safety because 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:57.679 it is kind of easy to get carried away when you're 00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:00.159 doing this. You get competitive and you start 00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:05.260 to, you know, have some dangerous moments. So 00:35:05.260 --> 00:35:07.300 let's talk a little bit about safety while you're 00:35:07.300 --> 00:35:09.420 doing a mobile hunt. Hopefully we don't have 00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:14.050 to talk about safety on foot. Well, you actually 00:35:14.050 --> 00:35:15.630 need to be a little safe when you're on foot. 00:35:15.630 --> 00:35:18.030 Watch out for holes. Well, yes, that's exactly 00:35:18.030 --> 00:35:19.510 right. And I was going to say, and that's one 00:35:19.510 --> 00:35:21.889 of the reasons we use the measuring tape antennas, 00:35:21.929 --> 00:35:25.389 is because they're a lot more eye safe in terms 00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:28.150 of if you fall on your antenna. It's a lot better 00:35:28.150 --> 00:35:31.309 to fall on a piece of measuring tape than it 00:35:31.309 --> 00:35:35.630 is on an aluminum rod, for example. But in the 00:35:35.630 --> 00:35:38.429 mobile haunts, certainly there's a number of 00:35:38.429 --> 00:35:40.329 things to think about. First of all, make sure 00:35:40.329 --> 00:35:44.800 your gear is mounted securely, your antenna particularly, 00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:47.760 if you're driving around with an antenna sticking 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.500 out, so that no matter what happens, it's not 00:35:50.500 --> 00:35:54.159 going to injure someone by either breaking off 00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:56.380 or falling down or doing something like that, 00:35:56.559 --> 00:36:00.860 have your equipment slide off. And I've even 00:36:00.860 --> 00:36:06.380 seen instances where people were using... Batteries 00:36:06.380 --> 00:36:08.840 and the batteries would short out because the 00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:10.639 wires would short out or something like that 00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:12.280 And that's not something you want to do when 00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:14.480 you're driving down the road is have a fire in 00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:18.119 your car Certainly you want to I recommend that 00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:22.940 it's we it Two person or even more teams are 00:36:22.940 --> 00:36:25.760 usually better on a mobile hunt. One person can 00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.840 pay attention to driving. The other person tends 00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:30.980 to, you know, can pay attention to the DF gear. 00:36:31.059 --> 00:36:33.980 That's certainly a lot safer way to do it. We 00:36:33.980 --> 00:36:37.980 have a name for the person that is the DF operator. 00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:41.219 We call him the navigator, because they're usually 00:36:41.219 --> 00:36:44.340 navigating and guessing as they go along. So 00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:48.440 certainly that is just, and, Take your time, 00:36:48.659 --> 00:36:51.719 even though if it's a time hunt, you want to 00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:54.480 get there really, really badly, but take the 00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.460 time to be safe. Certainly there's other things 00:36:57.460 --> 00:36:59.440 to think about, but think safety first at all 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:05.159 times. 812 -650 -9556 is the phone number. We're 00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:07.599 going to finish up here in just a few minutes. 00:37:08.510 --> 00:37:11.690 This is kind of the last call here for questions. 00:37:11.849 --> 00:37:14.949 If you have one for Joe Mel, KZeroOV from HomingIn 00:37:14.949 --> 00:37:21.789 .com, call us at 812 -650 -9556 or type to us 00:37:21.789 --> 00:37:25.269 on Twitter at HamTalkLive or if you're listening 00:37:25.269 --> 00:37:27.889 on Spreaker and you have an account, you can 00:37:27.889 --> 00:37:31.949 type in there on the comment section. Let's talk 00:37:31.949 --> 00:37:34.750 a little bit. Two about the differences. Now 00:37:34.750 --> 00:37:37.809 I grew up always doing two meters and everything 00:37:37.809 --> 00:37:39.750 I've done is two meters. I've never done the 00:37:39.750 --> 00:37:43.130 80 meter hunt. Next year I'm working on a project 00:37:43.130 --> 00:37:46.170 that's going to have an 80 meter hunt. So let's 00:37:46.170 --> 00:37:48.849 talk a little bit about the differences between 00:37:48.849 --> 00:37:52.489 doing a hunt on 80 meters versus two meters. 00:37:53.610 --> 00:37:56.070 As I told you the a lot of the mobile hunting 00:37:56.070 --> 00:37:58.829 started on the 80 meter band or the 75 meter 00:37:58.829 --> 00:38:02.829 phone band and That's also internationally where 00:38:02.829 --> 00:38:07.710 the first Big area ARDF radio orienteering events 00:38:07.710 --> 00:38:12.170 were held was on the 80 meter band this the nice 00:38:12.170 --> 00:38:14.829 thing about the 80 meter band is one of the things 00:38:14.829 --> 00:38:16.530 that makes Transmitter hunting on two meters 00:38:16.530 --> 00:38:18.809 difficult is those reflections we talked about 00:38:18.809 --> 00:38:20.570 from the hills and the buildings things like 00:38:20.570 --> 00:38:23.309 that They don't exist on 80 meters generally 00:38:23.309 --> 00:38:25.349 speaking if you get a bearing on 80 meters It's 00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:27.789 a good bearing and it'll be a sharp bearing because 00:38:27.789 --> 00:38:30.789 the DF gear usually you're you're hunting a you 00:38:30.789 --> 00:38:32.949 know You're using a deep null in the pattern 00:38:32.949 --> 00:38:36.550 of the antenna to find the direction that you 00:38:36.550 --> 00:38:38.809 want to go. So if you have a good bearing and 00:38:38.809 --> 00:38:41.710 you mark it on the map and follow it, chances 00:38:41.710 --> 00:38:43.670 are pretty good you're going to be fairly close. 00:38:43.809 --> 00:38:46.530 And that goes for whether it's mobile or on foot. 00:38:48.389 --> 00:38:51.809 That's the advantage. The gear is actually for 00:38:51.809 --> 00:38:55.110 on foot hunts, the gear is really pretty simple. 00:38:55.250 --> 00:39:00.659 You can make just a receiver with a... ferrite 00:39:00.659 --> 00:39:04.699 rod or an air core loop antenna. So a ferrite 00:39:04.699 --> 00:39:06.780 rod is kind of like you have in an old -fashioned 00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:09.420 AM transistor radio, which you probably have 00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:11.300 noticed is directional. If you turn that transistor 00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:15.079 radio, you can get dulls and peaks in the response. 00:39:15.099 --> 00:39:17.780 And that's exactly what you're using here. So 00:39:17.780 --> 00:39:20.360 the ferrite rod antenna can be big or small, 00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:22.980 but I've seen them as small as like two or three 00:39:22.980 --> 00:39:25.559 inches, for example. And so that can make for 00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:28.099 a very compact set. And when you're working with 00:39:28.099 --> 00:39:30.570 scouts, sometimes the really young scouts it's 00:39:30.570 --> 00:39:32.989 a lot easier for them to hold an 80 meter DF 00:39:32.989 --> 00:39:35.949 set than it is some of those that it is to hold 00:39:35.949 --> 00:39:38.230 that measuring tape beam actually so there's 00:39:38.230 --> 00:39:42.449 something to be said for 80 meters and the response 00:39:42.449 --> 00:39:44.530 is is a little different you hunt a little differently 00:39:44.530 --> 00:39:49.170 as I said the the rod antenna or and you can 00:39:49.170 --> 00:39:51.429 get the same results with maybe a four inch loop 00:39:51.429 --> 00:39:55.590 on 80 meters, those antennas have a very sharp 00:39:55.590 --> 00:39:58.349 null in the pattern. There's actually two nulls, 00:39:58.449 --> 00:40:01.449 front and back. And you use those nulls rather 00:40:01.449 --> 00:40:04.090 than the peak of the signal to get your bearing 00:40:04.090 --> 00:40:06.969 because they are so very short. Now one of the 00:40:06.969 --> 00:40:09.389 problems with a ferrite rod or a loop antenna 00:40:09.389 --> 00:40:13.530 is those nulls are bi -directional. So if you 00:40:13.530 --> 00:40:15.929 say, well, it appears to be from the north, well, 00:40:15.929 --> 00:40:18.829 it could equally be from the south. So 80 meter 00:40:18.829 --> 00:40:21.789 sets have what's called a sense antenna built 00:40:21.789 --> 00:40:25.389 in and the sense antenna is like a whip antenna 00:40:25.389 --> 00:40:29.710 or just a piece of wire and that the signal from 00:40:29.710 --> 00:40:32.170 that antenna is combined with the signal from 00:40:32.170 --> 00:40:35.269 the loop at the proper phase and it gives you 00:40:35.269 --> 00:40:43.400 a way to check which of the two of the loop is 00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:45.840 the right one to follow. It gives you sort of 00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:47.940 a cardioid pattern, but the most important thing 00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:50.699 of it is it makes one of the peaks louder than 00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:52.940 the other, stronger than the other, so it gives 00:40:52.940 --> 00:40:55.820 you, it tells you which of the ones to follow. 00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:58.719 So that's kind of how an 80 meter set works in 00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:01.300 principle. It can be a fairly simple set. It 00:41:01.300 --> 00:41:03.920 can be a direct conversion receiver or really 00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:05.980 a simple super head. It doesn't have to be anything 00:41:05.980 --> 00:41:09.159 fancy. All by the way, most 80 meter hunts take 00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:12.199 place during the day because at night the skip 00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:15.559 comes in and it makes it a lot harder to do DF 00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:19.619 on 80 meters at night. Then we could have a real 00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:24.079 challenging hunt. When you get everything coming 00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:30.030 in. Let's finish up here and I want you to take 00:41:30.030 --> 00:41:33.170 a minute or two to talk about your website because 00:41:33.170 --> 00:41:38.030 you've had homingin .com for quite a while. In 00:41:38.030 --> 00:41:40.750 fact, I think you've had homingin .com as long 00:41:40.750 --> 00:41:45.949 as since Al Gore invented the internet. So let's 00:41:45.949 --> 00:41:49.030 talk a little bit about all your massive resources 00:41:49.030 --> 00:41:53.329 there and what people can find there. Well, that's 00:41:53.329 --> 00:41:55.090 the thing when you've had a website a long time 00:41:55.090 --> 00:41:57.889 you add things to it and Just keep adding and 00:41:57.889 --> 00:42:00.190 adding and it gets bigger and bigger. I started 00:42:00.190 --> 00:42:04.469 it I kind of as a supplement to the column and 00:42:04.469 --> 00:42:07.210 went back when it was in 73 magazine in terms 00:42:07.210 --> 00:42:09.849 of having additional resources and a place for 00:42:09.849 --> 00:42:11.969 people to find out information and as I said 00:42:11.969 --> 00:42:15.190 It's grown from there, but you will find There's 00:42:15.190 --> 00:42:18.840 information on beginner two meter hunts, 80 meter 00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:21.420 hunts, there's information on mobile hunts, and 00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:25.840 a lot of information on ARDF or the radio -orienteering 00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:30.250 style of hunt. And that's because we've had now 00:42:30.250 --> 00:42:34.409 a national competition every year since 2001. 00:42:34.750 --> 00:42:37.349 And there's the stories and photos of each of 00:42:37.349 --> 00:42:40.670 those is in on the website. And as a point of 00:42:40.670 --> 00:42:42.769 privilege, I'd like to mention that we will have 00:42:42.769 --> 00:42:46.309 the USA Championships in North Carolina. They're 00:42:46.309 --> 00:42:49.710 being put on by the Backwoods Orienteering Club 00:42:49.710 --> 00:42:52.639 is the sponsoring club this year. They're going 00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:57.039 to be in the Raleigh, North Carolina area. And 00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:00.679 they will start at the end of July with some 00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:03.099 training sessions. And if you want to learn out 00:43:03.099 --> 00:43:05.320 in the woods how to do this, these training sessions 00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:10.019 are outstanding. And then around the 1st of August, 00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:12.619 the actual competitions will start. We haven't 00:43:12.619 --> 00:43:14.800 had a time to talk about all the various kinds 00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:17.519 of competitions, such as sprint and fox oaring, 00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:19.619 as well as the classic competitions. But you 00:43:19.619 --> 00:43:21.920 can read about them on the website. and you can 00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:24.420 experience them for yourself at the championships. 00:43:24.619 --> 00:43:26.980 The nice thing about the championships is ours 00:43:26.980 --> 00:43:30.860 are open to anyone, any skill level, any age 00:43:30.860 --> 00:43:32.940 really, as long as you're not likely to get lost 00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:34.880 out in the woods. We really don't want to send 00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:37.119 out a search party if we don't have to. But other 00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:39.139 than that, you're welcome to come out and try 00:43:39.139 --> 00:43:43.380 it and learn. Everybody that's there is quite 00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:46.480 eager and willing to help you get better. We 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:48.239 certainly encourage people to learn more about 00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:50.679 that and that information is also at homingin 00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:54.920 .com. Okay, so homingin .com, that's H -O -M 00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:59.119 -I -N -G -I -N dot com and you can find all that 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:02.099 information. Well Joe, your wealth of information 00:44:02.099 --> 00:44:06.219 and I'm so thankful that we got you on the show 00:44:06.219 --> 00:44:09.559 here tonight to talk about this and we'll get 00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:12.840 into this some more I suspect. This was a request 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:16.679 from from the N1KSC folks, more or less, and 00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:19.480 I just happen to think, well, wow, I haven't 00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:22.239 done a show about this yet. And it's been three 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:25.780 years now, so we needed to do that. But we may 00:44:25.780 --> 00:44:28.579 dive into this some more in the future and would 00:44:28.579 --> 00:44:32.300 welcome you coming back to do that. That would 00:44:32.300 --> 00:44:35.039 be great. I there's still a lot more to say about 00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:37.260 it And I certainly hope people will realize that 00:44:37.260 --> 00:44:39.340 this is a fun aspect of ham radio. It has some 00:44:39.340 --> 00:44:42.820 importance in terms of Enforcement it has in 00:44:42.820 --> 00:44:45.539 terms of search and rescue and other important 00:44:45.539 --> 00:44:48.880 things that are done with DF, but mostly It's 00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:51.320 it's just a lot of fun. So I hope people will 00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:55.260 give it a try All right. Well, thanks so much 00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:58.840 and That is a wrap for this week's edition of 00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:02.650 ham talk live. Thanks to my guest Joe Mel, KZeroOV 00:45:02.650 --> 00:45:05.780 and everyone out there in cyberspace. for listening 00:45:05.780 --> 00:45:08.559 in and invite you back next Thursday night at 00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:11.739 9 p .m. Eastern Time. For a list of all of our 00:45:11.739 --> 00:45:15.320 upcoming guests, just go to HamTalkLive .com. 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:18.139 And if you like HamTalk Live, please leave us 00:45:18.139 --> 00:45:20.619 a review on iTunes or wherever you listen. That 00:45:20.619 --> 00:45:24.079 helps others find us faster. So for now, this 00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:28.199 is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG, saying seven three, seven 00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:43.980 five, and may the good DX be yours. Thanks for 00:45:43.980 --> 00:45:44.000 watching!