WEBVTT 00:00:09.410 --> 00:00:12.250 Thanks for tuning in. Hamtalk Live will be on 00:00:12.250 --> 00:00:30.190 the air shortly. Please stand by. Thanks for 00:00:30.190 --> 00:00:32.929 tuning in. Hamtalk Live will be on the air shortly. 00:00:33.229 --> 00:00:40.439 Please stand by. This episode of HamTalk Live 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:44.060 is brought to you by Tower Electronics. For connectors, 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:49.899 cables, and more, call 920 -435 -2973 or visit 00:00:49.899 --> 00:00:55.759 pl -259 .com. And by ICOM, heard it, worked it, 00:00:56.020 --> 00:01:01.000 logged it. Visit www .icomamerica .com slash 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:04.879 amateur for more information about ICOM radios. 00:01:40.780 --> 00:01:44.239 Good evening, everyone. It's time for HamTalk 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:50.519 Live. It's episode number 184, the HamSci WWV 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:53.719 Festival of Frequency Measurements, recorded 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:58.400 live on Thursday, October 3rd, 2019. I'm your 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:02.540 host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning in 00:02:02.540 --> 00:02:05.980 to this episode of HamTalk Live. Tonight we're 00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:11.229 joined by Dr. Nathaniel Frisell, W2NAF. and we'll 00:02:11.229 --> 00:02:14.610 take your calls live in just a few minutes. Last 00:02:14.610 --> 00:02:18.490 week, Joe Karsha, NJ1Q, and Michelle Patnode, 00:02:18.770 --> 00:02:23.469 W3MVP, were here to talk about the So Now What 00:02:23.469 --> 00:02:26.669 podcast from ARRL. And if you missed the show, 00:02:27.150 --> 00:02:30.009 you can listen anytime over at hamptalklive .com 00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:33.840 or on your favorite podcast app. or on YouTube, 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:38.759 or you can catch the rebroadcast on WTWW, that's 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:42.479 5085 AM Saturday mornings or Saturday evenings 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:47.340 rather, at about 630 PM Eastern Time. Before 00:02:47.340 --> 00:02:49.960 we take a break here. Hey, don't forget about 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.099 fallout. It's the 100 watts of the wire podcast 00:02:53.099 --> 00:02:57.479 fallout. That's October 11th through the 13th 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:01.259 and Christian K zero STH is encouraging everyone 00:03:01.259 --> 00:03:05.520 to get outdoors and enjoy some radio before the 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:08.240 chill arrives here in the US. And while it's 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.719 not a contest, there are some prizes and points. 00:03:11.240 --> 00:03:18.379 So go over to 100watsandawire .com slash activities 00:03:18.379 --> 00:03:21.419 and check out all the information there on Fallout. 00:03:21.819 --> 00:03:25.379 Get outside next weekend and participate. So 00:03:25.379 --> 00:03:28.020 I'll be back with Nathaniel right after this 00:03:28.020 --> 00:03:32.180 word from ICOM right here on HamTalk Live. Heard 00:03:32.180 --> 00:03:36.090 it, worked it, logged it. It's time to get the 00:03:36.090 --> 00:03:38.569 transceiver that's best suited for your lifestyle. 00:03:39.069 --> 00:03:41.990 ICOM offers a variety of high performance and 00:03:41.990 --> 00:03:45.210 innovative products. Make the most out of contest 00:03:45.210 --> 00:03:49.650 season with one of these ICOMs today. The IC7610 00:03:49.650 --> 00:03:53.789 is the SDR every ham wants. 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It has dual receivers, digital 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:59.560 IF filters, memory keyer, digital voice recorder, 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:02.680 high resolution spectrum waterfall display, enhanced 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.939 PC connectivity, and an SD memory card slot. 00:05:06.100 --> 00:05:08.740 For more information on ICOM radios, be sure 00:05:08.740 --> 00:05:15.420 to visit 5 out of 4 people have trouble with 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:19.019 fractions. Now, here's Neil Rapp with more HamTalk 00:05:19.019 --> 00:05:43.470 Live. Thanks to ICOM for bringing HamTalk Live 00:05:43.470 --> 00:05:46.990 your way. Be sure to check them out at icomamerica 00:05:46.990 --> 00:05:52.529 .com slash amateur. Our guest tonight is Dr. 00:05:53.329 --> 00:05:58.490 Nathaniel Frisell, W2NAF. He is now an assistant 00:05:58.490 --> 00:06:01.829 professor at the University of Scranton in physics, 00:06:01.910 --> 00:06:05.189 where he teaches digital signal processing. fundamental 00:06:05.189 --> 00:06:08.889 physics and electromagnetics. He is the lead 00:06:08.889 --> 00:06:12.269 organizer of HamSci, a project that explores 00:06:12.269 --> 00:06:14.810 how amateur radio can help us understand more 00:06:14.810 --> 00:06:18.509 about the physics of the ionosphere. Nathaniel 00:06:18.509 --> 00:06:21.129 completed his PhD in electrical engineering in 00:06:21.129 --> 00:06:26.589 spring 2016 at the Superdarn HF Radar Laboratory 00:06:26.589 --> 00:06:29.509 at Virginia Tech. He was also involved in the 00:06:29.509 --> 00:06:31.810 Virginia Tech Amateur Radio Association, where 00:06:31.810 --> 00:06:34.579 he coordinated the VE team. And his interests 00:06:34.579 --> 00:06:39.480 include HF, CW, HF propagation, and radio scouting, 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.300 including involvement at the W2FSR station at 00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:47.100 Forestburg Scout Reservation in New York, as 00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:51.300 well as working on the K2BSA staff at the National 00:06:51.300 --> 00:06:55.040 Scout Jamboree. And so, Nathaniel, welcome back. 00:06:56.259 --> 00:06:58.040 Thank you so much, Neil. It's a pleasure to be 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.699 here. Well, it's always good to have you back 00:07:01.699 --> 00:07:04.459 here and last time I think was for your big award 00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:08.339 so congratulations again on on being the ham 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:12.740 vincen amateur of the year and I really like 00:07:12.740 --> 00:07:15.879 this and before the show we were already talking 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:21.720 all this science stuff uh... the science geeks 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:24.399 were you know we gotta ask all these all these 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:27.939 technical science questions and so we weren't 00:07:27.939 --> 00:07:31.139 going to bore everybody with those on the show 00:07:31.139 --> 00:07:34.100 here tonight but uh... we're already talking 00:07:34.100 --> 00:07:37.300 about this uh... this new project but and we'll 00:07:37.300 --> 00:07:40.019 talk about that here in just a second but but 00:07:40.019 --> 00:07:42.800 first how's the the move going you you were in 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:45.500 g i t and now uh... you just started the new 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:49.420 gig over at Scranton and you're back to teaching. 00:07:49.620 --> 00:07:52.660 You're back in the classroom again trying to 00:07:52.660 --> 00:07:56.240 balance the workload between the classroom and 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:00.540 your research. So how's it all going? That's 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:03.379 right, Neil. I think things are going fine. So 00:08:03.379 --> 00:08:07.040 I'm teaching a couple lectures and a couple of 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.879 labs this semester and I have a few undergraduate 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:14.860 research students working with me as well. One 00:08:14.860 --> 00:08:17.579 of them I was able to bring to the Tapper Digital 00:08:17.579 --> 00:08:21.459 Communications Conference last week and another 00:08:21.459 --> 00:08:24.579 one is working on a project that we're going 00:08:24.579 --> 00:08:27.540 to send some HF radio receivers down to Antarctica 00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:30.699 again and that's through a collaboration with 00:08:30.699 --> 00:08:34.419 MJIT. So I think things are coming along just 00:08:34.419 --> 00:08:38.470 fine. Over. All right, very good. Well, you know, 00:08:38.470 --> 00:08:42.409 it's it's always a challenge and I was sharing 00:08:42.409 --> 00:08:46.809 with you before the show, you know, some of the 00:08:46.809 --> 00:08:50.990 things that happened in the classroom like 311 00:08:50.990 --> 00:08:54.789 ,000 percent error, you know that there might 00:08:54.789 --> 00:08:59.250 be something wrong there. There might be And 00:08:59.250 --> 00:09:01.789 I'm learning that too now as I'm teaching a physics 00:09:01.789 --> 00:09:05.509 one class You know some of the students are are 00:09:05.509 --> 00:09:07.809 really quite bright You just give an exam and 00:09:07.809 --> 00:09:09.870 we had a few students just you know walk away 00:09:09.870 --> 00:09:13.149 with perfect Perfect exams and other students 00:09:13.149 --> 00:09:15.750 they struggle a little bit more But hopefully 00:09:15.750 --> 00:09:18.110 they'll all get to where they need to be by the 00:09:18.110 --> 00:09:22.690 end if they figure out f equals ma then Life 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:27.539 is good That's right And that vector math, you 00:09:27.539 --> 00:09:30.940 know the vector and vectors. Yes, I told them 00:09:30.940 --> 00:09:33.639 I like so much of this class is just knowing 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:38.399 how to manipulate vectors properly Yeah, I brought 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:43.120 up the the V word in class the other day we're 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:47.940 talking about Polarity and molecules and I was 00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:50.960 like, yeah, you can, you can figure out the resultant 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:53.799 dipole and they're like, Oh no, not that word 00:09:53.799 --> 00:10:01.700 again. Well, let's talk about this WWV. I love 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:05.480 the name. It's the, the festival of frequency 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:08.919 measurements. It just, it just has a ring to 00:10:08.919 --> 00:10:14.139 it. So tell us about what it is and who's participating 00:10:14.139 --> 00:10:17.340 and what you hope to learn out of this. Sure. 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:21.919 Neil. So the WWV centennial festival of frequency 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:26.120 measurements is a science activity that goes 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:30.440 along with WWV's 100th anniversary celebrations. 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:33.639 And the idea of doing the festival frequency 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:36.379 measurements, both the name and the idea for 00:10:36.379 --> 00:10:39.019 doing this particular experiment, really came 00:10:39.019 --> 00:10:43.460 from David Kasdan, Alpha Delta 8 Yankee, at the 00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:46.559 Case Western Reserve University Case Amateur 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:51.639 Radio Club, W8EDU. So both he and his students 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:54.620 have really been leading the charge in making 00:10:54.620 --> 00:11:02.389 sure this happens. asks participants to do is 00:11:02.389 --> 00:11:06.649 to measure the Doppler shift at their station 00:11:06.649 --> 00:11:12.980 of the 5 MHz frequency. And when you do that, 00:11:13.100 --> 00:11:17.720 you'll find out that even though WWV has a very, 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:21.440 very stable and accurate 5 MHz carrier, what 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:25.159 you actually receive in your own backyard is 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:29.519 not stable and not right at 5 MHz. There's a 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:32.460 substantial amount of frequency shift to be seen. 00:11:32.860 --> 00:11:35.679 And that frequency shift can very often be attributed 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:40.649 to variations occurring in the ionosphere. Very 00:11:40.649 --> 00:11:43.970 good. So how do you go about taking all these 00:11:43.970 --> 00:11:47.809 measurements and crowdsourcing them? So there 00:11:47.809 --> 00:11:51.370 is a frequency measurement experiment page on 00:11:51.370 --> 00:11:54.309 HamSci .org. If you go to HamSci .org there's 00:11:54.309 --> 00:11:56.909 a news or blog post up right now about this and 00:11:56.909 --> 00:12:00.230 then there's a link to a procedure page and on 00:12:00.230 --> 00:12:04.080 the procedure page it explains how you're going 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.779 to set up your equipment and what you're going 00:12:05.779 --> 00:12:09.840 to measure. Some of the important things here 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.899 is you can use almost any receiver, but you do 00:12:13.899 --> 00:12:19.059 have to have some sort of very stable oscillator 00:12:19.059 --> 00:12:24.100 to measure against. And one popular choice these 00:12:24.100 --> 00:12:26.960 days are GPS -disciplined oscillators, which 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:32.120 actually synchronize with the GPS network of 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:36.360 satellites and they can use that to steer or 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:38.720 discipline a local oscillator and you can get 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.940 a very stable local oscillator almost to the 00:12:42.940 --> 00:12:46.000 caliber of being a piece of test equipment and 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:49.440 then you can feed that into your radio and you 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:53.600 can use that to compare that signal with the 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:57.460 one coming in from WWV and that can allow you 00:12:57.460 --> 00:13:01.360 to record the Doppler shift measurements. You 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:03.980 often use a program, there's a program called 00:13:03.980 --> 00:13:07.019 Spectrum Lab. You can either use that or even 00:13:07.019 --> 00:13:11.019 the frequency measurement utility within FL Digi. 00:13:11.259 --> 00:13:14.120 Those are both ways that you can record the data 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:16.559 to the computer and then you're going to want 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.980 to upload those observations to a data repository 00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:24.600 site called Zenodo where we have a HamSci community 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:29.659 page. So you're gonna gather all this data on 00:13:29.659 --> 00:13:32.700 the Doppler shift and what are you what are you 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:35.580 hoping to find from this? Well, we're really 00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:39.500 hoping to learn about new ionospheric dynamics 00:13:39.500 --> 00:13:43.440 that maybe we don't know about or maybe we know 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:47.240 about but don't understand and There's a whole 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:51.519 zoo of different things out there different phenomena 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:55.620 Things such as traveling on a spirit disturbances 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:01.960 You can see changes due to the sunrise and sunset, 00:14:02.659 --> 00:14:05.100 other things as well. Some of these things I 00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:07.659 mentioned, like traveling atmospheric disturbances, 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:10.320 that's a very generic term. There's a lot of 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:14.059 things that can cause them. So not all the traveling 00:14:14.059 --> 00:14:17.480 atmospheric disturbances are the same. So by 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.559 looking at these measurements, we might be able 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:27.200 to learn something new. Okay, so have you I mean 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:31.259 it's just happened in what two days now right 00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:35.240 since yeah, it's the anniversary of WWV which 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.659 we were fortunate enough to have a couple of 00:14:38.659 --> 00:14:43.059 those guys from the special event station on 00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:47.080 here a couple of weeks ago, but Have you been 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:49.779 able to gather anything out of the dated already? 00:14:50.379 --> 00:14:54.320 Yes, so we have so far and that's really thanks 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.639 to some very good volunteers that we have participating 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:03.639 So on the Zenodo website, and again, you can 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:07.100 get to a link to that from hamsci .org, on the 00:15:07.100 --> 00:15:10.100 Zenodo repository, we have about 40 submissions 00:15:10.100 --> 00:15:13.639 from many different places, many different operators 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:17.679 providing data. And some of them have even presented 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:22.220 their data in a presentation form. So one very 00:15:22.220 --> 00:15:26.120 nice presentation comes from an amateur Steve 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:30.019 Sirwin, whiskey off a five, foxtrot, Romeo foxtrot, 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.559 and he lives in San Antonio, Texas, so he's measuring 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:36.379 the path between Fort Collins, Colorado, where 00:15:36.379 --> 00:15:39.399 WWV is, to his station in San Antonio, Texas, 00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:42.240 and he has absolutely beautiful figures which 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:46.519 show the Doppler shift changes at dusk and dawn, 00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:51.480 and it shows that you see very few changes. in 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:54.019 the five megahertz signal during the day. But 00:15:54.019 --> 00:15:58.720 if you look at night, you do have quite prominent, 00:16:00.139 --> 00:16:03.039 quite a bit of ionospheric variability there, 00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:06.100 which looks like traveling ionospheric disturbances. 00:16:07.379 --> 00:16:10.080 I'm looking at the figure now. It looks like 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:13.639 there's about a, it's about one hertz peak to 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:20.649 peak Doppler shift on the signal. Yeah, I took 00:16:20.649 --> 00:16:23.490 a real quick glance at it right before the show 00:16:23.490 --> 00:16:27.549 and and it was it was pretty pronounced So yeah, 00:16:28.129 --> 00:16:30.289 I mean this is hot you're on to something here. 00:16:30.289 --> 00:16:33.230 Yeah, this is hot off the press really I mean 00:16:33.230 --> 00:16:35.429 Steve just sent this this morning just posted 00:16:35.429 --> 00:16:40.450 it on Zenodo today and yeah, anyone who goes 00:16:40.450 --> 00:16:45.110 to the Hamside Oregon is a nodo and searches 00:16:45.110 --> 00:16:48.860 for Whiskey Alpha -5, Foxtrot, Romeo, Foxtrot, 00:16:48.980 --> 00:16:53.220 WA -5, FRF, and there's a Noto repository. They'll 00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:57.460 be able to see his PowerPoint, or the PDF of 00:16:57.460 --> 00:16:59.879 his PowerPoint there, and it's very clear the 00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:02.820 difference between day and night. It's as clear 00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:06.819 as day and night, really. Yeah, it's very pronounced. 00:17:08.259 --> 00:17:12.119 You're getting some good stuff. Yeah, so a couple 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.700 things I want to point out about this is, first 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:19.990 of all, As much as we do know about the ionosphere 00:17:19.990 --> 00:17:23.569 and space, there's so much that we still do not 00:17:23.569 --> 00:17:26.990 know and we haven't been able to really observe 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:31.269 well. This is a great case of this because I 00:17:31.269 --> 00:17:35.369 showed these slides to my friend Dr. Phil Erickson, 00:17:35.450 --> 00:17:38.849 WNPJE, who's up at the MIT Haystack Observatory. 00:17:39.009 --> 00:17:42.029 I'm like, Phil, have you seen these types of 00:17:42.029 --> 00:17:45.119 oscillations or variability? at nighttime, do 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.019 you know what this is from? And he said, you 00:17:47.019 --> 00:17:51.180 know, Nathaniel, no, I really don't. And if you 00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:54.119 do a Google Scholar search for nighttime MSTIDs, 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.220 you'll see a lot of optical observations, airglow 00:17:57.220 --> 00:18:03.039 observations. But these five megahertz HF observations, 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:05.900 you know, they're really kind of unique. I don't 00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:09.079 think they have been studied very much professionally. 00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:13.480 So this is something you know, that's a real 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.940 contribution we can have to professional science. 00:18:18.980 --> 00:18:23.380 And that's, you know, being a science teacher 00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:28.039 and having a degree, you know, in chemistry, 00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:33.880 that's always been a connection for me is, you 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:38.480 know, the ham radio aspects of science. And this 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.339 brings them together and it's just It's just 00:18:42.339 --> 00:18:47.240 really exciting to hear that this is happening 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:54.140 in mass quantities. Yeah, it's really very exciting. 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.200 Well, you've done an excellent job of putting 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:02.079 this stuff together and just look forward to 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:05.059 hearing more about this and some of the plans 00:19:05.059 --> 00:19:08.099 that you have for the future. And now I understand 00:19:08.099 --> 00:19:14.049 you've got a a grant for a lot of this. Yeah, 00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:17.190 so it hasn't quite started yet actually, even 00:19:17.190 --> 00:19:21.710 though we've done so much. So these types of 00:19:21.710 --> 00:19:25.089 observations that people are making with the 00:19:25.089 --> 00:19:27.490 receivers and the GPS discipline oscillators 00:19:27.490 --> 00:19:30.569 that they already have, we're trying to develop 00:19:30.569 --> 00:19:35.490 a personal space weather station device that 00:19:35.490 --> 00:19:39.220 can basically standardize these types of measurements. 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:45.319 We'd like to create a device that is built, designed 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:48.640 from the ground up to address some of the scientific 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.339 needs that a typical radio setup wouldn't have. 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:54.819 Like it's going to have a high quality oscillator 00:19:54.819 --> 00:19:58.500 in it that's going to, GPS disciplined oscillator 00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:00.920 in it. It's going to have the ability to do time 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:05.940 stamping. It's going to have the ability to measure 00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:09.900 multiple things at the same time and We would 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:13.000 like to build this and be able to distribute 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:15.640 it either distribute it or make it available 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:19.039 to amateur radio operators really all over the 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:21.720 world eventually and create a network that can 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:25.940 very consistently make Measurements like the 00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:29.000 ones you're seeing from this WWE festival frequency 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:33.319 measurement But we want to you know have them 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:37.359 be more standardized and more carefully measured. 00:20:38.259 --> 00:20:42.039 So we just won a large NSF grant, $1 .3 million. 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:46.420 It's a collaborative grant shared among a few 00:20:46.420 --> 00:20:49.099 different institutions. That's going to provide 00:20:49.099 --> 00:20:52.019 some funding to help develop a prototype for 00:20:52.019 --> 00:20:55.180 this particular personal space weather station. 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.420 And one of the things that you learn in science 00:20:59.420 --> 00:21:03.210 is Sometimes, it all comes down to the funding. 00:21:04.829 --> 00:21:06.009 Congratulations on that. Well, you know, it certainly 00:21:06.009 --> 00:21:09.529 helps. Thank you. I mean, it helps on so many 00:21:09.529 --> 00:21:14.309 different levels because, really, we've been 00:21:14.309 --> 00:21:16.910 doing a lot of these projects on a volunteer 00:21:16.910 --> 00:21:19.289 basis. We have many volunteers who've been helping. 00:21:19.630 --> 00:21:22.269 But now that we have funding, it can accelerate 00:21:22.269 --> 00:21:26.450 the process. Even here at the university, the 00:21:26.450 --> 00:21:29.130 fact that I have funding actually gives me more 00:21:29.130 --> 00:21:32.740 time. And more justification to spend my time 00:21:32.740 --> 00:21:35.559 working on this project rather than some of the 00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:38.660 other responsibilities I might have so it really 00:21:38.660 --> 00:21:41.500 allows people to redirect their time to work 00:21:41.500 --> 00:21:44.900 on these things and and make it come together 00:21:44.900 --> 00:21:51.900 I Think something Yeah, and one thing I'm very 00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:55.240 excited about is the Collaborative nature of 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:59.740 this so I've been working with the Tapper group. 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.059 They're doing a lot of the engineering work on 00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:06.259 this project and that's where I was able to connect 00:22:06.259 --> 00:22:09.079 with a lot of the people who are working on this 00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:12.299 project. And so the TAPR portion of the project, 00:22:12.460 --> 00:22:15.420 they're calling it the Tangerine SDR, Software 00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:18.619 Defined Radio, and it's actually, the Tangerine 00:22:18.619 --> 00:22:21.559 SDR is going to be, you know, certainly to support 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:23.339 the personal space weather station, but it's 00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:25.900 going to be modular so it can support other applications 00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:30.500 as well. We meet every Monday night at 9 p .m. 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.359 Eastern on the internet on a team speak session 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:36.900 and we have a list serve and that's where we're 00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:39.160 able to do a lot of our collaborative development. 00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:42.819 And then we meet twice a year once at the Tapper 00:22:42.819 --> 00:22:45.160 Digital Communications Conference which just 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:49.400 happened in Detroit last weekend. And then again 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:51.859 at the HamSci workshop which is going to happen 00:22:51.859 --> 00:22:56.380 in Scranton this March 20th and 21st. to continue 00:22:56.380 --> 00:23:00.500 the development of this project. Oh, that sounds 00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:05.220 like a fabulous project and glad to hear that 00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:09.339 the funding is there and the volunteers are there 00:23:09.339 --> 00:23:13.740 and it's all coming together. So congratulations 00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:17.660 once again. Thank you. Thank you so much. We're 00:23:17.660 --> 00:23:20.720 going to come back. We're going to talk to Nathaniel 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.740 some more. And we're going to give you a chance 00:23:23.740 --> 00:23:28.559 to ask your questions. So be sure to give us 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.960 a call. That telephone number to call again is 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:41.640 812 -638 -4261. It's 812 -NET -HAM -1. And we'll 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.339 take your calls when we come back after this 00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:48.400 word. from Tower Electronics right here on HamTalk 00:23:48.400 --> 00:24:15.099 Live. I'm not so sure why I ever used any other 00:24:15.099 --> 00:24:19.259 PL259s. Mine are better. Besides, you deserve 00:24:19.259 --> 00:25:05.869 the best. You know I love you. If a man says 00:25:05.869 --> 00:25:08.130 something in the woods and there are no women 00:25:08.130 --> 00:25:10.980 there, is he still wrong? You're listening to 00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:39.869 HamTalk Live with Neil Rapp. Thanks as always 00:25:39.869 --> 00:25:43.430 to Tower Electronics for bringing HamTalk live 00:25:43.430 --> 00:25:48.529 your way each and every week. Their HamFest schedule 00:25:48.529 --> 00:25:52.349 this weekend, it's actually tomorrow and Saturday 00:25:52.349 --> 00:25:57.269 in Belton, Texas. And then Chickasaw, Alabama, 00:25:57.710 --> 00:26:02.049 October 12th. And October 19th, Greenville, Tennessee. 00:26:02.650 --> 00:26:06.309 But you can visit them anytime, anywhere at PL 00:26:06.309 --> 00:26:11.589 -259 .com. At HamTalk Live, you can visit us 00:26:11.589 --> 00:26:15.190 anytime, anywhere at HamTalkLive .com or live 00:26:15.190 --> 00:26:18.869 every Thursday night at 9 p .m. at HamTalkLive 00:26:18.869 --> 00:26:22.130 .com. And be sure to check us out on Facebook, 00:26:22.289 --> 00:26:25.230 Twitter, and Instagram. And it's time now for 00:26:25.230 --> 00:26:29.549 your calls. So if you have a question for Nathaniel, 00:26:29.609 --> 00:26:36.269 please give us a call at 812 -638 -4261. It's 00:26:36.269 --> 00:26:42.049 812 -NET -HAM -1. Or you can tweet us. It's at 00:26:42.049 --> 00:26:45.450 HamTalk Live. And if you're listening to us on 00:26:45.450 --> 00:26:50.329 WTWW or on the podcast version, we're not here. 00:26:50.490 --> 00:26:54.670 It's Thursday night, so we're not here. Sorry 00:26:54.670 --> 00:26:57.589 that we won't be able to take your questions 00:26:57.589 --> 00:27:02.250 live on the show, but we can always fit those 00:27:02.250 --> 00:27:06.930 questions in offline here as well. So we're going 00:27:06.930 --> 00:27:09.549 to talk a little bit about the next big project, 00:27:09.910 --> 00:27:16.059 but first let me run over here to Twitter. Brett 00:27:16.059 --> 00:27:20.099 caught my my near mistake and and he knows that 00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:23.859 I've caught on to this That at the beginning 00:27:23.859 --> 00:27:28.160 I almost said a hundred wires and a watt instead 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:31.440 of a hundred watts and a wire so Brett caught 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:36.599 that so I know somebody's listening so Very good 00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:39.279 eight one two six three eight four two six one 00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:43.450 is the number so let's talk a little bit about 00:27:43.450 --> 00:27:47.029 some future plans and and i guess first would 00:27:47.029 --> 00:27:50.009 be this hamsai conference that you've got coming 00:27:50.009 --> 00:27:54.069 up and and amazingly it's at the university of 00:27:54.069 --> 00:27:58.349 scranton that's right we're planning the 2020 00:27:58.349 --> 00:28:01.650 hamsai workshop at the university of scranton 00:28:01.650 --> 00:28:04.869 and the plan is to have it march 20th and march 00:28:04.869 --> 00:28:09.269 21st and this is an opportunity to come uh meet 00:28:09.269 --> 00:28:13.720 fellow ham radio science enthusiasts and professional 00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:16.519 academic researchers. And we all come together 00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:20.180 and we present the research that we've been doing 00:28:20.180 --> 00:28:23.279 and talk about how we can further both science 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:27.160 and amateur radio together. And it's a really, 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:31.079 really great couple days. So we've run the workshop 00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:33.859 twice so far. We had it once at NJIT. That was 00:28:33.859 --> 00:28:36.559 the first year. And then last year Case Western 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:38.359 Reserve hosted it. And so this year it will be 00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.980 at the University of Scranton. All right, and 00:28:41.980 --> 00:28:44.279 that's you know, anybody can go to that right? 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.279 That's right. Yes, anyone can go. So we're still 00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:50.619 working on getting the details Set up that will 00:28:50.619 --> 00:28:54.420 be posted on Ham side at work probably in about 00:28:54.420 --> 00:28:57.140 a month or so So we still have to get some of 00:28:57.140 --> 00:29:02.000 the final details but typically it costs about 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.599 a hundred seventy five dollars or so and that 00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:09.039 includes all of the food, so that's We still 00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:11.500 have to confirm all those details for this year, 00:29:11.539 --> 00:29:13.339 but that's how we've been able to run it in the 00:29:13.339 --> 00:29:18.339 past. And last year we had some very good speakers. 00:29:18.579 --> 00:29:23.299 We had Ward Silver, N0AX is the keynote speaker. 00:29:24.140 --> 00:29:28.839 And for the two invited tutorials, we had Carl 00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:33.440 Letzelswab, K9LA, who's a well -known propagation 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:41.079 columnist. Dr. Larissa Gondrenko from the MIT 00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:47.160 Haystack Observatory Well some great People there 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.039 and some great topics so if you get a chance 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:54.380 head on over to the University of Scranton in 00:29:54.380 --> 00:29:58.980 March and and check out the third Hamseye workshop 00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:02.240 Well, what else have you got coming up here? 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.880 Are you coming up with some more of these? Great 00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:10.819 ideas for studies? Oh, well, let me tell you. 00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:14.599 I mean, just working on the personal space weather 00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:20.160 station right now is taking that is a very multifaceted 00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:23.900 project in and of itself. So we have people working 00:30:23.900 --> 00:30:27.619 on the Tangerine SDR. That's going to be the 00:30:27.619 --> 00:30:30.160 higher end version of the personal space weather 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.680 station. We're going to have a lower cost version. 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.740 So there's design that needs to go into that. 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:39.640 We're going to have part of the device use ground 00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:41.660 magnetometers, so there's science that needs 00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:45.380 to go into that. So just this one project is 00:30:45.380 --> 00:30:48.740 really quite diverse. And even the festival of 00:30:48.740 --> 00:30:51.319 frequencies that we're having right now, those 00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:55.220 observations are going to help give us ideas 00:30:55.220 --> 00:31:01.940 and data starting point for the designs for this 00:31:01.940 --> 00:31:05.660 personal space weather station as well. So that 00:31:05.660 --> 00:31:08.359 is part of it. But some other things, I guess 00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:10.720 some other things I have personally going on 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:15.500 with the hamsi type activities is I'm working 00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:19.819 on a paper that looks at large -scale traveling 00:31:19.819 --> 00:31:22.019 ionospheric disturbances that you can see in 00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:26.819 both reverse speaking network and a whisper network 00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:29.799 data. and i'm planning on presenting that at 00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:32.519 the american geophysical union meeting this coming 00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:35.519 december so i'll be there and a few other hamside 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:41.119 people be there as well and um... and i'm also 00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:43.220 planning on going to the american meteorological 00:31:43.220 --> 00:31:46.779 society meeting in january so there's there's 00:31:46.779 --> 00:31:51.259 quite a bit of activity going on eight one two 00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:53.720 six three eight four two six one is the phone 00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:57.119 number if you have a question for Dr. Nathaniel 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:03.779 Frisell, W -2 -N -A -F about HamSci and the WWV 00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:10.380 Anniversary Festival of Frequency Measurement. 00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:17.299 So, and if you're listening to this... WWV, all 00:32:17.299 --> 00:32:22.140 the time, all the time. And you measured... the 00:32:22.140 --> 00:32:26.259 Doppler shift. Make sure you send in your data 00:32:26.259 --> 00:32:30.599 and get it collected. Well, let's see. We do 00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:37.220 have a question here coming in from Brett, wy7bg. 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:41.200 What will the ionospheric researchers be doing 00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:47.440 during the upcoming eclipse? Well, they are going 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:51.480 to be trying to repeat some of the same sorts 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.339 of experiments that happened in the last eclipse, 00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:56.160 and you might say, well, why would you do that? 00:32:56.920 --> 00:33:02.160 Well, the path of the upcoming eclipse is rather 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:04.960 different from the path of the previous eclipse. 00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:08.079 The 2024 eclipse is going to be much more of 00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:12.539 a north -south direction, whereas the 2017 eclipse 00:33:12.539 --> 00:33:16.319 was from west to east, and so there's actually, 00:33:16.420 --> 00:33:20.349 because of Because the ionosphere is structured 00:33:20.349 --> 00:33:25.730 based on the Earth's magnetic field, you can 00:33:25.730 --> 00:33:28.710 expect to see some different behavior between 00:33:28.710 --> 00:33:31.289 those two situations. So they'll be investigating 00:33:31.289 --> 00:33:35.990 some science questions related to that, I'm sure. 00:33:37.349 --> 00:33:43.509 And if I don't move, the center of that viewing 00:33:43.509 --> 00:33:48.019 area is like three miles from my backyard. Wow, 00:33:48.019 --> 00:33:51.220 are you lucky so yeah the last time we were like, 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:53.680 oh, we're in the wrong place And then it's like 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:56.859 well wait wait next time is better. So just have 00:33:56.859 --> 00:33:59.480 to wait around long enough, right? Yeah. Yeah. 00:33:59.619 --> 00:34:01.640 No, I don't know if I can wait around long enough, 00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:07.140 but Maybe we'll come back and visit but Maybe 00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:10.159 we can rent out the backyard as an observatory 00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:13.519 or something. I don't know But yeah, there should 00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:16.780 be some good things and of course, you know But 00:34:16.780 --> 00:34:19.699 repeating this is always kind of necessary to 00:34:19.699 --> 00:34:22.300 make sure that, you know, there's not something 00:34:22.300 --> 00:34:25.960 wrong with the data. That's right. And, you know, 00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:28.860 we're looking to confirm things, you know, like 00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:32.239 waves that are generated by eclipses, waves in 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:41.940 the ionosphere. with altitude, those are some 00:34:41.940 --> 00:34:45.159 of the things people will be looking at. There 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:47.920 are people who look at VLF propagation and how 00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:52.619 that changes due to an eclipse. So there's a 00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:54.800 lot of different ways to look at the eclipse. 00:34:56.840 --> 00:34:59.980 Well, that's coming up, so we'll have to hang 00:34:59.980 --> 00:35:04.380 on for that one a little while longer, but the 00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:08.179 preparation begins now, so that's good. It does. 00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:13.280 812 -638 -4261. Let's give one last call here 00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:18.260 for some questions for Dr. Nathaniel Frisell, 00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:22.739 W2NAF from HamSci. What else is HamSci up to 00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:29.239 besides the WWV thing and the upcoming conference? 00:35:31.900 --> 00:35:34.619 So besides that and the personal space weather 00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:41.300 station, Well, we're always looking for people 00:35:41.300 --> 00:35:45.500 who are doing science sorts of activities with 00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:47.800 ham radio. We're looking for them to contribute 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:51.960 There's a lot of interest in the NVIS type propagation 00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:57.420 near vertical incidence skywave And this is of 00:35:57.420 --> 00:36:02.579 particular interest to people who are doing public 00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:06.440 service emergency communications and defense 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:10.360 applications because it allows you to set up 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.719 regional communications with modest antennas. 00:36:15.980 --> 00:36:20.760 And so that's a very hot topic of research. Some 00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.079 of the people at, some of the researchers at 00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:25.559 West Point are actually very interested in this, 00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:28.659 and they were able to come to both the HamSci 00:36:28.659 --> 00:36:32.440 workshop and the Tapper DCC and present on that 00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:34.619 sort of work. So I know that's going to be a 00:36:34.619 --> 00:36:37.699 continuing topic near Vertical Instance SkyWave 00:36:37.699 --> 00:36:43.320 and VIS. Very good. Well, all kinds of cool stuff 00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:47.960 going on, and it's HamSci .org, H -A -M -S -C 00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:53.039 -I .org. Be sure to check that out. watch what's 00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:58.099 happening because Nathaniel and his cohorts are 00:36:58.099 --> 00:37:01.719 putting together some marvelous science tied 00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:06.760 in with ham radio. So Nathaniel, again, congratulations 00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:12.940 on the new job, on the big award and another 00:37:15.550 --> 00:37:19.510 interesting measurement of the ionosphere and 00:37:19.510 --> 00:37:23.289 we look forward to hearing more as you have a 00:37:23.289 --> 00:37:27.130 chance to dig into the data and find a few more 00:37:27.130 --> 00:37:30.449 things I suspect. Yes thank you so much Neil. 00:37:32.349 --> 00:37:34.929 All right well anything else we need to we need 00:37:34.929 --> 00:37:38.650 to tell the listeners before we go here? I think 00:37:38.650 --> 00:37:43.539 that's it just keep operating and You know, be 00:37:43.539 --> 00:37:48.320 curious. I hope to see some of you come to the 00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:52.219 Hampstead workshop in 2020 at the University 00:37:52.219 --> 00:37:55.280 of Scranton. I will very much enjoy meeting you. 00:37:56.079 --> 00:38:00.079 And the more you operate, the more research you 00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:03.739 can do. That's right. If the signals aren't there, 00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:06.780 you can't measure them. So that's right. You 00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:09.199 got to have them out there. So get on the air 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:14.639 and next weekend, Get outside if you can and 00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.500 participate in the Fallout activity. There's 00:38:17.500 --> 00:38:20.320 another activity for you to get on the air with, 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:24.820 so don't forget about that. Well, that is a wrap 00:38:24.820 --> 00:38:29.320 for this week's edition of HamTalk Live. Thanks 00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:33.139 again to my guest, Dr. Nathaniel Forssell, W2NAF, 00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:37.059 and everybody in cyberspace for listening and 00:38:37.059 --> 00:38:40.969 typing in tonight. Come back next Thursday night 00:38:40.969 --> 00:38:44.869 at 9 p .m. Eastern Time and we'll have another 00:38:44.869 --> 00:38:49.010 guest. We're working on a kind of big one. So 00:38:49.010 --> 00:38:51.449 we'll see if it's next week or the week after. 00:38:51.670 --> 00:38:55.949 But we've got a big one coming on here pretty 00:38:55.949 --> 00:38:59.829 soon. So check out HamTalkLive .com for a list 00:38:59.829 --> 00:39:03.969 of all of our upcoming guests. And if you like 00:39:03.969 --> 00:39:06.610 HamTalk Live, please consider leaving us a review 00:39:06.610 --> 00:39:09.570 on iTunes or wherever you live. listen, it helps 00:39:09.570 --> 00:39:13.949 others find us faster. So for now, this is Neil 00:39:13.949 --> 00:39:18.650 Rapp, WB9VPG, saying seven three, seven five, 00:39:19.070 --> 00:39:21.969 and may the good DX be yours.