WEBVTT

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This episode of HamTalk Live is brought to you

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by Tower Electronics. For connectors, cables,

00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:12.939
and more, call 920 -435 -2973 or visit pl -259

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.com. And by ICOM, heard it, worked it, logged

00:00:17.620 --> 00:00:22.839
it. Visit www .icomamerica .com slash amateur

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for more information about ICOM radios. Here

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we go, welcome to Amtopi Calling Let's Stop,

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Neil's your guy Amtopi, here we go Hey everyone,

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it's time for HamTalk Live. It's episode number

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186, Augmented Reality in Contesting, recorded

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live on Thursday, October 17th, 2019. I'm your

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host, Neil Rapp, WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning in

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to another episode of HamTalk Live. Tonight we're

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joined by Jerry Ellsworth, AI6TK. and Amy Herndon

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AI6ZU and we'll take your calls live in just

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a few minutes. Last week Bill Stearns in E4RD

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and Christian Kudnick K0STH were here to talk

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about some of the October special events, specifically

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Jamboree on the Air, the 100 watts and a wire

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fallout, and School Club Roundup. So if you missed

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that show you can listen anytime at HamTalkLive

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.com or on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube

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or you can catch the re -broadcast on WTWW 5085

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a .m. Saturday evenings at about 630 p .m. Eastern

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Time. Well get your questions ready to go for

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Jerry and Amy. We'll be talking about augmented

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reality tonight. the connection to amateur radio

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and if you're listening to us live on Thursday

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night You can give us a call after we talk a

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little bit. We have a short interview But that

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telephone number, let me go ahead and give that

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to you So you can write it down and have it ready

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to go or type it in it's eight one two net ham

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one eight one two six three eight 4261. You can

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also tweet us. In fact, we've got a couple of

00:02:48.379 --> 00:02:51.979
tweets already. Our Twitter handle is at HamTalk

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Live, so we'll be watching that throughout the

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night as well. So we hope that you will ask your

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questions here live with Jerry and Amy right

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after this word from iCom America right here

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on HamTalk Live. Heard it. Worked it. Logged

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it. It's time to get the transceiver that's best

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suited for your lifestyle. ICOM offers a variety

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Make the most out of contest season with one

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of these ICOMs today. The IC7610 is the SDR every

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ham wants. This high -performance SDR has the

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ability to pick out the faintest of signals even

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in the presence of stronger adjacent ones. The

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IC7610 by ICOM is a direct sampling software

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-defined radio that will change the world's definition

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of an SDR transceiver. It has RF direct sampling,

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110 RMDR, independent dual receiver, and dual

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digicel. The IC7300 is changing the way entry

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-level HF is designed. This high -performance

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innovative HF transceiver with a compact design

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will far exceed your expectations. With RF direct

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sampling, 15 discrete bandpass filters, a large

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4 .3 -inch color touchscreen, real -time spectrum

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scope, and SD memory card slot. And of course,

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the IC7851 keeps your competitive contesting

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edge with faster processors, higher input gain,

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higher display resolution, and a cleaner signal.

00:04:25.629 --> 00:04:29.850
ICOM's IC7851 is the pinnacle of HF perfection.

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It has dual receivers, digital IF filters, memory

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keyer, digital voice recorder, high resolution

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spectrum waterfall display, enhanced PC connectivity,

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and an SD memory card slot. For more information

00:04:42.310 --> 00:04:49.569
on ICOM radios, be sure to visit Who is the most

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dangerous person in the world? A ham with some

00:04:52.750 --> 00:04:57.389
wire, a potato gun, and an idea. Ham Talk Live.

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Thanks to Icom America for sponsoring the show

00:05:20.819 --> 00:05:23.600
again tonight. Be sure you check out all their

00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:29.279
great radios and accessories at icomamerica .com

00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:35.079
slash amateur. Tonight our guests are Jerry Ellsworth,

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AI6TK. She was born in Georgia and raised in

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Oregon, and Jerry taught herself to program on

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a Commodore 64 and never looked back. She entered

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the computer business and has worked on many

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projects revolving around computers and computer

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gaming. Lifehacker named her as a modern -day

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MacGyver because of her ability to hack a variety

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of technologies, often with surplus or repurposed

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pieces. She created her own chip building production

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lab at home and has been working on augmented

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reality. in the past few years and her latest

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Kickstarter campaign has raised over one million

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dollars. to build augmented reality systems at

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Tilt -5. Amy Herndon, AI6ZU, is a prototyping

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engineer and office manager at Tilt -5. Amy refers

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to herself as the Swiss Army Knife on her LinkedIn

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page. She jumps in and does whatever's needed.

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She has a wide variety of abilities and is putting

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those skills to use with Jerry dealing with everything

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from scheduling to building prototypes and jigs.

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She's been a builder for most of her life and

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her interest in electronics also brought her

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into ham radio and she has a solid collection

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of HF rigs and likes to build antennas and it's

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been great to talk with you both a little bit

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tonight and I know things are busy but thanks

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for taking time out to Talk to us a little bit

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about your project and how it relates to Ham

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Radio. So, Jerry and Amy, welcome to HamTalk

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Live. Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's an honor.

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Well, I have heard all about this Kickstarter

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campaign for the augmented reality headsets and

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that's gone really well. So, before we get into

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the connection with Ham Radio, give us the latest

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update on your project. Well, this project has

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been going for quite a few years now. I've been

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working in this space for seven or eight years.

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I started off at a software company in Seattle

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called Valve Software that hired me to research

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how to make games more fun and bring everyone

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from the grandparents all the way down to the

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grandkids together to play games. Ultimately

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they moved into virtual reality which is a different

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type of technology that removes you from the

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world and puts you into this whole synthetic

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world which I wasn't a big fan of and so I started

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a company to do augmented reality that keeps

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you in the world but gives you, augmentation

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gives you 3D elements in the world. It's been

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a lot of work. It's not easy to introduce an

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emerging piece of technology that has so much

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potential impact on the world. We honestly believe

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that in the next 20 years, this type of technology

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will start to replace our phones, our computers,

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it'll be our interface to everything in our life.

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And so the system's just glass as you slip on

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in these 3D game characters or 3D objects can

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just spring out of your table. So talking about

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an emerging market, you have to get creative

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about funding activities like this. So we chose

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to go to Kickstarter, which is a crowdfunding

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website that allows individuals like your listeners

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to participate at whatever level they want. We

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have some folks that are just pitching in a few

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dollars to that just want to see this technology

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live and then we have backing tiers that let

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people actually get the headset that they can

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use themselves and We've been going for 20 days

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out of a month long campaign about I think so

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ready me yeah around that yeah, and I think we're

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approaching 1 .4 million dollars and we crossed

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through The break -even point where we could

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actually build the headsets and probably not

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go bankrupt But we made no money. Yeah, that

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was that was within 17 hours We're at 1 .4. We

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might make a nickel In hardware you have to sell

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a lot of units to just make any money and so

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We're still looking for folks to help us out

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and that are interested in being on the cutting

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edge of this technology and You know help us

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just keep the lights on and in the office and

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keep food on the employees tables and And bring

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this awesome. Yeah thing that we've invented

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out into the world Well, I know you know we've

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been talking you've been getting calls in the

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middle of the night and not a whole lot of sleep

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and quite a ride. So hopefully that comes in

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and you're, like you said, you've got food on

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the table and you can keep going and keep working

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on this great project and really appreciate your

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efforts in getting all of this going because

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It's got a lot of promise to it and we're really

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excited to hear about it tonight. Well, at Visalia,

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you had some very interesting ideas on ways to

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incorporate this augmented and virtual reality

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technology into contesting. So let's talk a little

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bit about bringing these two worlds together.

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You've got augmented reality and you've got ham

00:11:38.899 --> 00:11:43.059
radio contesting. How are these going to work

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together? Well, I just want to mention one thing

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before we go into that. I just was recalling

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back to all of my Elmer's and ham radio mentors

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when I was a kid around 1985 or so. And it was

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amazing. I lived in this small town where there

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were very few people that had computers. But

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all the ham radio operators were on the cutting

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edge and had computers. And I think that's the

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really cool thing about ham radio operators.

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They're always adventurous. They're always trying

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to be ahead of the curve when it comes to technology

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and communication. And this is a piece of technology

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that's coming. and it's going to open up a lot

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of possibilities for radio communication and

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we're excited about what's possible in the form

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of augmentation for contesting or just general

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communications alone. But for one of the, at

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Visalia I brought a very early prototype and

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I put together a simulation of what it might

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look like if you had a four square antenna with

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four receivers and you did just a little bit

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of math on the signals that you're receiving

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on these four antennas and I showed Right on

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the table. You saw a little house. It was in

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3d You could actually reach out and it just looked

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like you could touch it right next to the house

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You saw the four antennas sticking up right out

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of the table just like miniature version and

00:13:15.490 --> 00:13:17.509
all around the antenna You could see cascading

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in the signal strength from different signals

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What's interesting about augmented reality is

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because you get that extra depth to it and this

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extra interaction You can actually reach in and

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select things with your hands or with an object.

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It gives you more information simultaneously

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and so on this demo I put together you could

00:13:35.289 --> 00:13:39.409
actually see the heading in which The signal

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was coming in which antenna you would want to

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select or where you want to point your antenna

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It's very hard to actually see that kind of thing

00:13:47.029 --> 00:13:51.330
on a 2d screen because you could see amplitude

00:13:51.330 --> 00:13:55.509
poking up out of the waterfall that was coming

00:13:55.509 --> 00:13:57.669
cascading in towards the antennas and you could

00:13:57.669 --> 00:14:00.889
see the heading in which direction it was coming.

00:14:02.070 --> 00:14:04.210
So you can imagine in contesting, you know, if

00:14:04.210 --> 00:14:07.090
you're wanting to reach a certain part of the

00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:08.730
world, you could actually take a look at, you

00:14:08.730 --> 00:14:10.429
know, you can have your transceiver off to the

00:14:10.429 --> 00:14:14.429
side and you can have your tilt five. Matt off

00:14:14.429 --> 00:14:15.870
to the side and you could take a look at how

00:14:15.870 --> 00:14:18.090
your antenna is performing and you can turn your

00:14:18.090 --> 00:14:19.889
antenna you can see how your signal is getting

00:14:19.889 --> 00:14:23.269
out in 3d and then actually like figure out if

00:14:23.269 --> 00:14:24.710
you're aimed in the right direction if you're

00:14:24.710 --> 00:14:26.490
heading towards that area of the world that you

00:14:26.490 --> 00:14:29.250
want to pick up and You know, I could just imagine

00:14:29.250 --> 00:14:31.490
it take it from there. It can make it so much

00:14:31.490 --> 00:14:33.690
so much easier to actually see that when we were

00:14:33.690 --> 00:14:37.330
talking last night With the folks on ham nation.

00:14:37.409 --> 00:14:39.309
We're saying like you can imagine something like

00:14:39.309 --> 00:14:42.220
a Google Earth where you can see the whole kind

00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:43.879
of globe in front of you. You can spin it with

00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:46.299
your hand and you can see how your signal strength

00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:49.879
is getting out across the globe. And then how

00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:51.620
neat would that be if the person that you just

00:14:51.620 --> 00:14:54.480
connected with also had that ability and you

00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:56.919
could actually reach in and kind of interact

00:14:56.919 --> 00:14:58.940
with each other in real time while you're making

00:14:58.940 --> 00:15:01.720
that connection? Yeah, so we have the ability

00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:07.000
to track objects and hands and we have a wand,

00:15:07.019 --> 00:15:09.299
a magic wand that you can use to select things.

00:15:10.579 --> 00:15:13.080
A unique feature of our system is you can actually,

00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:15.759
you know, our system is based on this game board

00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:17.419
that you open up and that's where all the images

00:15:17.419 --> 00:15:20.299
show up. You can actually take your game board

00:15:20.299 --> 00:15:23.240
sitting on your table, link it up to somebody

00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:25.200
else's game board across the world and you have

00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:29.200
this shared 3D space. So imagine hooking our

00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:31.679
system up to the spotting networks. You make

00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.779
a contact, then automatically you could see this

00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:39.220
3D world. pop up and you can see exactly where

00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:42.740
they are. It could load up Google Maps with 3D

00:15:42.740 --> 00:15:47.159
view of the terrain, the location where you're

00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:50.360
actually... Yeah, if they have a big tower there,

00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:53.200
you could actually maybe see their tower, which

00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:55.379
would be pretty cool. And maybe see the signal

00:15:55.379 --> 00:15:57.419
strength coming off of their tower as well. That

00:15:57.419 --> 00:15:59.059
would be pretty interesting. But then you could

00:15:59.059 --> 00:16:02.000
take it to another level as well. So once you've

00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:04.139
like... made your contact, you could actually

00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:07.139
link your game boards together and have communication

00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:09.200
over the internet where you could potentially

00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:13.320
share 3D models. So our glasses have the ability

00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:16.039
that you could digitize objects. So I don't know,

00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:19.840
you get the new ICOM 7610 and you walk around

00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:23.759
it and you digitize it into 3D and then you can

00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:26.240
link up to your new friend you made and send

00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.450
them a 3D model. And you'd be like, well, here's

00:16:29.450 --> 00:16:32.330
where the cat port is on my new hot icon rig.

00:16:33.409 --> 00:16:39.429
And we also, you know, I should clarify, like

00:16:39.429 --> 00:16:41.809
a lot of this is like super early. There's got

00:16:41.809 --> 00:16:44.669
to be like clever ham radio programmers that,

00:16:44.669 --> 00:16:46.470
you know, are going to take on these challenges

00:16:46.470 --> 00:16:49.210
and making the software tools like, you know,

00:16:49.210 --> 00:16:51.870
the Joe Taylors and folks out there. And of course,

00:16:51.870 --> 00:16:53.730
we're interested in that ourselves and we're

00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:57.639
kind of poking it as well. But Yeah, we're just

00:16:57.639 --> 00:16:59.720
talking basically about like this is the future

00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:03.519
what it could be like There's a lot of interesting

00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:06.680
things so You were talking earlier about you're

00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:08.400
working with your school, and they're having

00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:12.140
antenna problems One thing that I started working

00:17:12.140 --> 00:17:14.359
on it's not complete yet is I wanted to pull

00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:18.980
in NEC Antenna simulations and be able to build

00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:22.680
complex antennas in 3d so you would use the magic

00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.869
wand to drag in, in real time, drag in antenna

00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:29.190
elements and move them around and constantly

00:17:29.190 --> 00:17:36.809
be calculating the antenna. Gosh, I'm having

00:17:36.809 --> 00:17:39.910
trouble to not enough sleep. Radiation patterns

00:17:39.910 --> 00:17:42.769
as you move elements in real time and you could

00:17:42.769 --> 00:17:45.049
just lean in to your table and you look at this

00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:47.529
miniature version of your antenna and you can

00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:52.349
actually see how moving these elements is changing

00:17:52.349 --> 00:17:55.970
and also you could bring in Google Earth like

00:17:55.970 --> 00:17:58.829
the terrain map and you could see like how the

00:17:58.829 --> 00:18:00.710
terrain is going to affect your antenna and you

00:18:00.710 --> 00:18:03.230
could set up like well I know we have high iron

00:18:03.230 --> 00:18:06.230
content you could use the magic wand to paint

00:18:06.230 --> 00:18:09.329
iron on the ground or I know the roof of my school

00:18:09.329 --> 00:18:12.369
it has metal so I'm going to put aluminum on

00:18:12.369 --> 00:18:15.829
the top of this and you can model your house

00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:19.559
And you can see how these complex interactions

00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:23.180
actually work in a very intuitive way that's

00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:26.319
really hard on a 2D screen, but absolutely trivial

00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:31.259
on a 3D screen. Well, it sounds like there's

00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:34.039
endless possibilities and it sounds like we've

00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.420
come a long way from playing GORF on a Commodore

00:18:37.420 --> 00:18:42.779
64. Yep, yep, yep. And then there's a new...

00:18:43.210 --> 00:18:46.150
We were just speculating last night about new

00:18:46.150 --> 00:18:49.369
communication methods. Like we have slow scan

00:18:49.369 --> 00:18:54.089
TV. We have fast scan TV. Why don't we have slow

00:18:54.089 --> 00:18:58.890
scan 3D models? Like you just send out a 3D model

00:18:58.890 --> 00:19:02.809
into the ether and people receive it and then

00:19:02.809 --> 00:19:07.210
all the geometry gets recreated on your projection,

00:19:07.289 --> 00:19:09.250
your game board right there in front of you.

00:19:09.450 --> 00:19:12.930
So you could send a 3D scan of your ham shack

00:19:12.930 --> 00:19:16.190
or your new rig or your new antenna design and

00:19:16.190 --> 00:19:19.390
actually send the 3D models over the airwaves.

00:19:19.849 --> 00:19:24.130
It could be a very interesting new way to communicate.

00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:32.630
I like it. So how soon do you think this technology

00:19:32.630 --> 00:19:37.730
is going to be available to start working on

00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.279
these projects and when do you think that maybe

00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.700
the connection to ham radio and the software

00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:49.039
to do all of that will happen? What's your idea?

00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:52.500
What's your guess? Well, if Jerry has her way,

00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:57.579
it'll start happening. She's been meaning to

00:19:57.579 --> 00:20:01.059
play around with her ICOM 7610. Well, I already

00:20:01.059 --> 00:20:02.920
hooked it up, too. Yeah, she had it hooked up

00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:06.279
and ready to go last week. Yeah, I had a 3D waterfall

00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:11.039
hooked up to the 7610. Nice. It was really, really

00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.079
nice. I have all kinds of ideas of stuff that

00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:16.059
I want to do around that. This is actually something

00:20:16.059 --> 00:20:20.920
probably very relevant to contesting. So I want

00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.319
to have a 3D waterfall cascading away from me

00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:25.579
on the table so I can see all the elevation of

00:20:25.579 --> 00:20:27.599
the amplitude and I can just get in and kind

00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:32.099
of see the signals. And what's interesting is

00:20:32.099 --> 00:20:35.200
you can see more as code and you pretty much

00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:41.400
can read the dots and dashes and spaces in the

00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:46.059
waterfall. But I also want to record the entire

00:20:46.059 --> 00:20:50.480
spectrum in time and save like a buffer. of,

00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:54.160
I don't know, maybe 30 seconds into the past.

00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:55.799
And I want to be able to reach in with my hand

00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.299
and grab the waterfall and drag it backwards

00:20:58.299 --> 00:21:00.920
and then be able to scrub it back and forth and

00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:02.519
scroll it really slow. Like, what was it? Was

00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:05.279
that a did or a da? Like, let me listen to that

00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:08.720
a couple times. And I believe that when you start

00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:11.400
to put those kinds of direct interactions with

00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:14.660
the raw data that... Normally you have to use

00:21:14.660 --> 00:21:17.779
buttons and knobs and stuff to manipulate. You

00:21:17.779 --> 00:21:19.359
could actually just reach in, grab the audio,

00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.039
re -listen to it, move it through at different

00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.099
speeds until you pull out that call sign that

00:21:25.099 --> 00:21:27.940
you missed, and then you can just give it a fling,

00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:31.640
fling it back to the current time. To real time.

00:21:31.779 --> 00:21:35.579
To real time. So that could be huge for contesting.

00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:41.210
No more busted calls. Yeah, that's right. Just

00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:44.809
listen to it over and over again So in terms

00:21:44.809 --> 00:21:48.049
of like in terms of our hardware Some of our

00:21:48.049 --> 00:21:49.930
early kits are actually going to start going

00:21:49.930 --> 00:21:53.769
out in February of next year Folks can actually

00:21:53.769 --> 00:21:56.029
start developing for it now if they want to they

00:21:56.029 --> 00:21:58.930
don't actually have to have the the glasses or

00:21:58.930 --> 00:22:01.450
our SDK in hand to actually start developing

00:22:01.450 --> 00:22:04.329
for it we're actually going to be coming up with

00:22:04.329 --> 00:22:07.220
some widgets that they can use and Our SDK works

00:22:07.220 --> 00:22:12.180
with Unity and Unreal Engine, so whichever kind

00:22:12.180 --> 00:22:14.519
of game engine somebody's using to do these types

00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:16.680
of interactions, they can just take the widget

00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:20.119
package, toss it into their project in Unity,

00:22:20.779 --> 00:22:22.460
and get up and running before they even have

00:22:22.460 --> 00:22:26.000
glasses. Our main shipment of glasses, the primary

00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.900
shipment for the... less brave souls, like we

00:22:28.900 --> 00:22:31.119
have it split into two levels. There's like the

00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:35.019
super brave people that want to be very early

00:22:35.019 --> 00:22:37.539
and deal with bugs and report bugs to us. And

00:22:37.539 --> 00:22:40.359
then June, July, and we're moving into August

00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:43.220
shipments now, we've been filling up all of our

00:22:43.220 --> 00:22:46.319
shipment slots, is when the little bit more polished

00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:50.640
version, we're not guaranteeing zero bugs, but

00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:54.559
something that comes with games, comes with applications,

00:22:55.400 --> 00:23:00.329
is gonna be ready. Now when do the ham radio

00:23:00.329 --> 00:23:02.670
applications come? Well I think it's going to

00:23:02.670 --> 00:23:04.390
evolve over time and they're going to start out

00:23:04.390 --> 00:23:08.049
pretty simple. Certainly I'll take all my experiments

00:23:08.049 --> 00:23:12.789
with waterfalls and multiple antenna signal strength

00:23:12.789 --> 00:23:14.509
and just kind of put it out there into the public

00:23:14.509 --> 00:23:17.269
domain. But once these are in the hands of clever

00:23:17.269 --> 00:23:20.069
ham radio operators that want to be cutting edge

00:23:20.069 --> 00:23:24.529
and explore this, we'll start to see the new

00:23:24.650 --> 00:23:27.970
the new things, like the FT8, a 3D model, slow

00:23:27.970 --> 00:23:30.450
scan, whatever. That's when it's going to get

00:23:30.450 --> 00:23:38.789
really exciting. Yeah, what exactly do you anticipate

00:23:38.789 --> 00:23:45.349
or expect the contesting community to put this

00:23:45.349 --> 00:23:48.869
technology into use and run with it? What do

00:23:48.869 --> 00:23:53.180
you think? People are probably going to get mad

00:23:53.180 --> 00:23:58.099
at me for saying this. I didn't mean for that

00:23:58.099 --> 00:24:00.920
to be a loaded question there. No, I think it's

00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:03.700
hilarious. I'm relatively new. Amy and I are

00:24:03.700 --> 00:24:06.720
both relatively new to the ham space. We come

00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.660
in with all this piss and vinegar and excitement

00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:11.779
about it and we go charging in like, wouldn't

00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:13.779
it be great with all of this new technology?

00:24:13.940 --> 00:24:16.420
Of course, there's always a segment of ham radios.

00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:21.960
I've had my monochrome. You know, screen. You're

00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:24.240
going to have to pry those tubes out of my cold,

00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:27.940
dead hand. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And I know there's

00:24:27.940 --> 00:24:30.500
some of your listeners that are just railing

00:24:30.500 --> 00:24:33.359
against this, and it's okay. FTA is going to

00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:38.160
kill radio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's okay. You

00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:40.640
know, we're not going to replace contesting.

00:24:40.779 --> 00:24:42.839
You can still use your paper logs if you want.

00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:44.680
But I think there's going to open up, like, a

00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:46.259
lot of interesting things. There's going to be

00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:49.319
tools that are going to make Contesting more

00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.000
efficient is one thing. And what I'm excited

00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.079
about is I think there's going to be opportunities

00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:58.920
to have more gamified versions of contesting.

00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:03.099
Maybe, you know, there's lots of sprints out

00:25:03.099 --> 00:25:04.720
there which are really fun. You go do a little

00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:10.799
sprint and it's super casual. I think that there's

00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:14.019
going to be more opportunities to have kind of

00:25:14.019 --> 00:25:17.769
instant contests, maybe even contests that You

00:25:17.769 --> 00:25:19.950
know, people that are using this cutting edge

00:25:19.950 --> 00:25:22.869
technology can just log into a public lobby on

00:25:22.869 --> 00:25:27.309
the internet, come up with their own rules, broadcast

00:25:27.309 --> 00:25:29.869
it to the world. A certain number of people will

00:25:29.869 --> 00:25:33.430
just jump on and for like an hour in the mid

00:25:33.430 --> 00:25:38.230
afternoon, you know, it's slow scan 3D model

00:25:38.230 --> 00:25:44.349
contest and whoever can receive the most 3D scans

00:25:44.349 --> 00:25:48.900
of tulips. wins, right? And I think it can be

00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:54.019
really fun and combine that with real -time scoring

00:25:54.019 --> 00:25:56.640
so you can see how you're doing. Like right there

00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.759
on your table you could see your ranking just

00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:01.259
scrolling by. Maybe it's a vertical bar graph

00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:03.200
like extending out of the table with all the

00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:10.180
rest of the contestants. It could be like super

00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:15.559
exciting and fun and instant feedback and I mean

00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:17.660
Amy and I both have a background in the video

00:26:17.660 --> 00:26:21.259
game industry and so we immediately draw like

00:26:21.259 --> 00:26:23.640
these parallels and we're like, wow Why do we

00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.559
have to wait a year to find out how we did in

00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:31.700
that contest? Like we should know on the the

00:26:31.700 --> 00:26:34.400
minute like how how we're doing instantaneous

00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:38.579
real -time scoring yeah yeah i think that's coming

00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:41.039
and i think that's also a way to get some of

00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.480
the uh... the younger generation more excited

00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:47.500
about uh... getting involved with ham radio as

00:26:47.500 --> 00:26:51.180
well definitely put kids into our system you

00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:56.900
could be showing them the most boring uh... education

00:26:56.900 --> 00:27:00.799
module about you know we have examples of like

00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:02.920
the intestine not the most exciting thing in

00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:07.900
the world but kids are like wow combined this

00:27:07.900 --> 00:27:10.980
radio you're gonna have kids lined up you know

00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:15.519
20 deep to get on the system and and try to to

00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:17.759
use it yeah the beauty of it is that you can

00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:19.640
any number of people around the board at the

00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:21.680
same time and they all get their own their own

00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:24.230
view so You could have a bunch of people staring

00:27:24.230 --> 00:27:28.430
at that waterfall or how that antenna is propagating

00:27:28.430 --> 00:27:30.930
and everything else, and they'll all get to take

00:27:30.930 --> 00:27:34.190
a look at it. It worked for me. 1985 or so was

00:27:34.190 --> 00:27:36.509
probably when I met my first ham radio operators.

00:27:37.150 --> 00:27:39.950
Went to their ham shack. What did I find? Commodore

00:27:39.950 --> 00:27:46.230
64s, IBM XTs hooked up doing slow -scan TV, and

00:27:46.230 --> 00:27:50.049
they planted the seed. It took me... 25 years

00:27:50.049 --> 00:27:52.910
30 years to finally get my license, but they

00:27:52.910 --> 00:27:55.829
Just because they were so cutting -edge and it

00:27:55.829 --> 00:27:59.250
was so exciting for me, you know It was ingrained

00:27:59.250 --> 00:28:04.490
in my brain that yeah Yeah, well you guys were

00:28:04.490 --> 00:28:07.589
reading my mind because I'm sitting here, you

00:28:07.589 --> 00:28:12.089
know, I work with kids I work with school clubs

00:28:12.089 --> 00:28:17.349
and I write about and talk about ways to get

00:28:17.349 --> 00:28:21.789
young people involved in ham radio and and Contesting

00:28:21.789 --> 00:28:25.690
is one of those things and and we've looked at

00:28:25.690 --> 00:28:28.609
you know the the touchscreen radio and how you

00:28:28.609 --> 00:28:31.609
know the touchscreen radio interacts better with

00:28:32.109 --> 00:28:34.549
the young people because that's the technology

00:28:34.549 --> 00:28:38.130
they're familiar with. And you're exactly right.

00:28:38.309 --> 00:28:43.170
I think getting this more of a gaming type system

00:28:43.170 --> 00:28:46.549
is going to be friendlier to the young people

00:28:46.549 --> 00:28:49.710
who are doing those kinds of things already.

00:28:50.269 --> 00:28:52.670
And we've talked on this show about the live

00:28:52.670 --> 00:28:57.009
online scoreboard and how a lot of the college

00:28:57.009 --> 00:29:00.670
level contests and school contests are using

00:29:01.069 --> 00:29:04.549
the live scoreboard so that they can see in real

00:29:04.549 --> 00:29:07.869
time how they're doing in the contest and I think

00:29:07.869 --> 00:29:10.910
that's just going to continue to grow and grow

00:29:10.910 --> 00:29:14.450
and then you put this this augmented reality

00:29:14.450 --> 00:29:18.670
with it and it's just the possibilities are endless.

00:29:19.609 --> 00:29:22.390
Yeah you could imagine like all kinds of ways

00:29:22.390 --> 00:29:27.089
that you can gamify it even more if you had say

00:29:27.089 --> 00:29:32.099
the 3D globe and you had to try to stack your

00:29:32.099 --> 00:29:37.480
multipliers in 3D on the globe, right? So, like,

00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:42.119
you find a region and you start stacking them

00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:44.039
in a certain order and you can visualize, like,

00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:48.619
well, if I contact someone with the letter A

00:29:48.619 --> 00:29:52.759
in their call sign first, and then I then stack

00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:55.019
someone with a call sign with the letter Z in

00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:57.789
it, that... adds a more complicated multiplier.

00:29:58.670 --> 00:30:00.970
And now we have this new dimension where we can

00:30:00.970 --> 00:30:04.250
start to visualize how all the multipliers stack

00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:09.470
together. And we can see in just a glance how

00:30:09.470 --> 00:30:11.490
we're doing stacking multipliers in a certain

00:30:11.490 --> 00:30:14.210
region. And you don't have to go over to a pen

00:30:14.210 --> 00:30:16.549
and paper and start adding stuff up. It's just

00:30:16.549 --> 00:30:18.569
a look away from the microphone, look over the

00:30:18.569 --> 00:30:21.450
table, and bam, I'm getting all these multipliers

00:30:21.450 --> 00:30:24.359
in California. I'm doing really good because

00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:28.660
my bar graph is... Getting taller and taller.

00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.960
Yeah, it's like an inch off the table. That's

00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.779
great. And I know if I make it to two inches...

00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:37.200
I mean, we're 3D. Human beings are 3D. We interact

00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.940
90 % of the time in 3D. So bringing these interfaces

00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:45.000
to radios and computing is just the natural way

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:50.420
to go. Yeah, and I totally agree. Gamifying,

00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:54.039
like kids... There's not a kid out there that

00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:57.000
doesn't play video games and they find out how

00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:00.319
well they did in their online game within a nanosecond.

00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.519
So if we could even get contesting so they could

00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.519
get the feedback within a few minutes, that would

00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:10.119
be attractive. And I don't care how much the

00:31:10.119 --> 00:31:12.880
old timers scold me for saying they'll never

00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:16.339
give up their paper logs. Contesting is a preparedness

00:31:16.339 --> 00:31:19.519
drill, but it's also kind of a game, right? It's

00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:24.240
just a game that's... It feeds that kind of that

00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:27.200
nerd desire to collect things, you know You want

00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:30.059
to collect as many as you as you can and and

00:31:30.059 --> 00:31:32.539
that's that's an inherent desire that that they

00:31:32.539 --> 00:31:35.720
use in games as well So, you know myself like

00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:38.940
I love playing games like Elder Scrolls Skyrim

00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:43.539
and I am I like to to hoard and collect as many

00:31:43.539 --> 00:31:49.609
things as I can I got to meet the founder of

00:31:49.609 --> 00:31:53.230
Atari a few years ago and we became friends and

00:31:53.230 --> 00:31:55.250
at one point he pulled me inside and told me

00:31:55.250 --> 00:31:58.049
he's like there's human nature in video games

00:31:58.049 --> 00:31:59.970
and we discovered that at Atari and that's why

00:31:59.970 --> 00:32:04.210
we were so successful. It's like it's human nature

00:32:04.210 --> 00:32:06.970
like you know humans like to put things into

00:32:06.970 --> 00:32:10.450
order, humans like to destroy things, humans

00:32:10.450 --> 00:32:19.319
like to collect things. If you put a little psychology

00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:24.220
into ham radio It could really Attract a lot

00:32:24.220 --> 00:32:26.539
of people because they'll just make it that much

00:32:26.539 --> 00:32:32.619
more fun. I Totally agree Well, this is so exciting

00:32:32.619 --> 00:32:35.519
that we're way over time, so we're going to take

00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:40.059
a break and we'll come back and we'll collect

00:32:40.059 --> 00:32:43.019
some more points and we'll blow up some asteroids

00:32:43.019 --> 00:32:46.359
and play a little missile command or something

00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:49.079
when we come back right after this word from

00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:53.680
Tower Electronics right here on HamTalk Live.

00:32:54.339 --> 00:32:58.920
Hey honey, have you seen the PL -259s anywhere?

00:32:59.380 --> 00:33:05.150
No, I haven't. Come on kids, let's go! There's

00:33:05.150 --> 00:33:07.609
just one place to go for all of your connector

00:33:07.609 --> 00:33:10.609
needs. Tower electronics. Tower electronics.

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00:33:13.829 --> 00:33:16.849
and adapters for every occasion. Thousands to

00:33:16.849 --> 00:33:19.190
choose from in every shape, size, and color.

00:33:19.390 --> 00:33:22.130
And they have antennas, soldering supplies, cables,

00:33:22.410 --> 00:33:25.150
meters, and more. Where do you go if you want

00:33:25.150 --> 00:33:27.509
to buy a connector at a fraction of retail cost?

00:33:27.630 --> 00:33:31.490
Tower electronics. Tower electronics. Tower electronics.

00:33:31.910 --> 00:33:34.190
And this weekend only, take advantage of our

00:33:34.190 --> 00:33:36.849
special Special liquidation sale. Buy nine solder

00:33:36.849 --> 00:33:40.210
-type PL -259s. Get the tenth one for just one

00:33:40.210 --> 00:33:48.089
penny. They make great Christmas presents. And

00:33:48.089 --> 00:33:50.589
what better way to say I love you than with the

00:33:50.589 --> 00:33:55.450
gift of a PL -259. Tower Electronics. Tower Electronics.

00:33:55.549 --> 00:34:00.009
Tower Electronics. Hi, I'm Scott Cole, KB9 AMM,

00:34:00.230 --> 00:34:03.049
President of Tower Electronics. I like the company

00:34:03.049 --> 00:34:05.549
so much that I bought it. Tower Electronics,

00:34:05.849 --> 00:34:08.750
coming to a hand fest near you, or online at

00:34:08.750 --> 00:34:13.010
PL -259 .com. And we're in the yellow pages under

00:34:13.010 --> 00:34:16.309
amateur radio connectors. My, wherever did you

00:34:16.309 --> 00:34:20.190
get that lovely PL -259? Tower Electronics, PL

00:34:20.190 --> 00:34:27.079
-259 .com. or call 920 -435 -2973. Do we sell

00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:31.400
PL259 connectors? Join the conversation. Give

00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:36.679
us a call at 812 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812 -638

00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:48.619
-4261. Now, here's more HamTalk Live. Oh yeah.

00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:52.869
You're talking ham radio, baby. You're listening

00:34:52.869 --> 00:35:22.019
to Ham Talk Live with Neil Rapp. Tower electronics

00:35:22.019 --> 00:35:26.219
will be at Greenville, Tennessee this weekend

00:35:26.219 --> 00:35:29.960
October 19th the ham fest there November 2nd

00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:33.539
and 3rd in Lawrenceville, Georgia November 8th

00:35:33.539 --> 00:35:36.800
and 9th Montgomery, Alabama, but you can visit

00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:42.559
them anytime you like at PL -259 And HamTalk

00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:46.139
Live, you can listen anytime you like at HamTalkLive

00:35:46.139 --> 00:35:49.179
.com or we're on the air live every Thursday

00:35:49.179 --> 00:35:52.119
night at 9 p .m. Eastern Time. And be sure to

00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:54.980
check us out on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

00:35:54.980 --> 00:35:58.739
And it's time for your phone calls and your tweets

00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:02.500
right now. So if you have a question for Jerry

00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:11.000
and Amy, give us a call at 812 -638 -4261. 3

00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:17.380
8 4 2 6 1 it spells out 8 1 2 net ham 1 or you

00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:19.840
can tweet us at ham talk live and if you're listening

00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:24.400
to us on wtww or on the podcast edition we're

00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.139
not here because it's thursday and we haven't

00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:32.329
figured out time travel yet so we can't go back

00:36:32.329 --> 00:36:35.289
and call all right well we're going to talk a

00:36:35.289 --> 00:36:38.650
little bit about the home chip building lab first

00:36:38.650 --> 00:36:45.230
we did have a tweet earlier so want to um scroll

00:36:45.230 --> 00:36:51.789
back here and talk about that and and and um

00:36:51.789 --> 00:36:58.460
armani uh here uh kf5 tyu um had a question,

00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:02.320
and also wanted to give a shout out to the Texas

00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:06.059
A &M Amateur Radio Club, W5AC, so we'll slip

00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:09.900
that in there. But Armani wants to know, have

00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:14.300
you already used Tilt -5 with software -defined

00:37:14.300 --> 00:37:19.079
radio, or how could that option be made available?

00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.500
Well, you've already added on the 7610, right?

00:37:23.300 --> 00:37:27.000
Correct, correct. There's quite a few ways, if

00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:29.940
you're a programmer and if you are good at that,

00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:33.659
you can use these game engines. And so, it's

00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:35.360
kind of unfortunate they're called game engines

00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:38.940
these days because so many people use them for

00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:41.619
professional applications as well. But these

00:37:41.619 --> 00:37:44.579
game engines allow you to work in 3D in a very

00:37:44.579 --> 00:37:48.869
easy way where you can... put graphics into this

00:37:48.869 --> 00:37:51.489
virtual world and you can just place it with

00:37:51.489 --> 00:37:54.329
pure measurements. So, for instance, when I did

00:37:54.329 --> 00:38:00.789
the waterfall experiment, I just instantiated

00:38:00.789 --> 00:38:03.889
3D objects that were slowly moving away from

00:38:03.889 --> 00:38:08.309
me in this 3D world and then the way our headset

00:38:08.309 --> 00:38:10.489
works is we have this really easy plug -in that

00:38:10.489 --> 00:38:12.969
you hook to the game engine and as soon as you

00:38:12.969 --> 00:38:15.170
put that into the game engine, the 3D graphics

00:38:15.170 --> 00:38:18.190
just shows up. on the table and you can see it

00:38:18.190 --> 00:38:21.269
in real time. And so there's a lot of things

00:38:21.269 --> 00:38:27.869
you can do with SDRs. We did a demo piece of

00:38:27.869 --> 00:38:30.730
software which took air traffic control data,

00:38:31.289 --> 00:38:33.889
which came off the internet in that case. And

00:38:33.889 --> 00:38:37.170
then we plotted it in 3D space. So you could

00:38:37.170 --> 00:38:41.130
see a topographic map of a city and you could

00:38:41.130 --> 00:38:44.130
scroll anywhere in the world and see real time

00:38:44.130 --> 00:38:47.719
air traffic. over the top of the city. And so

00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:51.860
you could see paths of where the airplane had

00:38:51.860 --> 00:38:54.320
flown, little lines floating right up, right

00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.739
in front of your nose in 3D space. You could

00:38:56.739 --> 00:38:59.059
see the airplanes and you could walk around the

00:38:59.059 --> 00:39:02.659
table and look at your city. You could zoom in

00:39:02.659 --> 00:39:04.039
and you could see the different airplanes. You

00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:07.960
could use our magic wand to click on the airplanes

00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:11.260
and get the beacon data off of it, which was

00:39:11.260 --> 00:39:14.260
really interesting. So imagine you could take

00:39:14.260 --> 00:39:19.349
your SDR, pull down all that beacon data and

00:39:19.349 --> 00:39:21.849
do it in real time just from your own antennas.

00:39:23.510 --> 00:39:25.570
Or trains, for instance, have a lot of beacons

00:39:25.570 --> 00:39:27.849
on them. You could be tracking trains and then

00:39:27.849 --> 00:39:30.710
tracking locations on the table and see it in

00:39:30.710 --> 00:39:35.409
3D as a little model railroad, but it's actually

00:39:35.409 --> 00:39:40.320
real trains moving around. Satellites. You could

00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.599
be pulling in all of the 3D data that's coming

00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:44.599
down from satellites that are mapping the world.

00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:46.539
It's just kind of endless how you can hook it

00:39:46.539 --> 00:39:49.780
up to 3D. So Amy, do you have any thoughts? Oh,

00:39:50.019 --> 00:39:54.260
that was fantastic. The air traffic control simulation

00:39:54.260 --> 00:39:56.219
was really, really fun because you could actually

00:39:56.219 --> 00:40:00.420
see the elevations of the airplanes as they were

00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:03.019
moving around in the airspace. And so you could

00:40:03.019 --> 00:40:05.440
see, you know, when you look at 2D, you can't

00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:07.900
really tell if two planes look like they're overlapping

00:40:07.900 --> 00:40:09.969
each other. You can't really tell like where

00:40:09.969 --> 00:40:11.550
they are in relationship to each other but when

00:40:11.550 --> 00:40:13.150
you look at it through our glasses you can actually

00:40:13.150 --> 00:40:15.130
see oh that one's like actually flying really

00:40:15.130 --> 00:40:16.849
low and the other one's flying really high and

00:40:16.849 --> 00:40:18.530
you see them in that three -dimensional space

00:40:18.530 --> 00:40:21.309
above each other. I think that's a great example

00:40:21.309 --> 00:40:24.309
of you know the efficiency you can have when

00:40:24.309 --> 00:40:27.570
you you bring in the third dimension for computer

00:40:27.570 --> 00:40:31.550
displays you know 2d screens you know this air

00:40:31.550 --> 00:40:33.809
traffic control like you have two dots on top

00:40:33.809 --> 00:40:36.780
of each other are they Cliding in into each other

00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:39.519
and going to explode or you have to actually

00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:41.340
look at these numbers next to him like oh that

00:40:41.340 --> 00:40:44.420
one's at a thousand you know meters up and the

00:40:44.420 --> 00:40:49.079
other one's a hundred meters up and It's just

00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:53.280
at a glance you can know I Mean so this type

00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:56.000
of technology is going to be transformative way

00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:58.619
outside of games and way outside of even ham

00:40:58.619 --> 00:41:01.880
radio It's like the air traffic control of the

00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:05.269
future is going to be people sitting with these

00:41:05.269 --> 00:41:09.989
glasses on Making the world safer because they're

00:41:09.989 --> 00:41:13.889
not going to confuse You know a digit of a number

00:41:13.889 --> 00:41:21.030
on two dots on a screen Wow well Troy W9 KVR

00:41:21.030 --> 00:41:24.690
has chimed in here and says crazy thought the

00:41:24.690 --> 00:41:29.969
geoscientist in him says how about How RF is

00:41:29.969 --> 00:41:33.309
propagating through atmospheric layers or meteor

00:41:33.309 --> 00:41:39.340
scatter? Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm not an expert

00:41:39.340 --> 00:41:44.500
Maybe Amy, you know more about atmospheric like

00:41:44.500 --> 00:41:46.780
readings, but yeah, I know there's all kinds

00:41:46.780 --> 00:41:51.119
of Beacons that they send out to try to measure

00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.960
propagation and their satellites looking down

00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:55.880
at the atmosphere You could imagine combining

00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:59.019
all that data. That's a lot of it's readily available

00:41:59.019 --> 00:42:04.000
combining that together to help predict how various

00:42:04.750 --> 00:42:08.829
propagation is going to happen. Solar, like Kamathys

00:42:08.829 --> 00:42:12.769
Kove could probably help this. Yeah, yeah, and

00:42:12.769 --> 00:42:15.289
then aggregate all this data together and you

00:42:15.289 --> 00:42:18.050
could have a propagation predictor that's really

00:42:18.050 --> 00:42:20.250
intuitive to look at. It's like, oh, there's

00:42:20.250 --> 00:42:23.369
an aurora event happening. I'm gonna point my

00:42:23.369 --> 00:42:27.070
antenna north. I'm gonna try to do aurora skip,

00:42:27.230 --> 00:42:30.510
right? So I think there's a lot of opportunity.

00:42:31.210 --> 00:42:33.750
hard to see on a 2D screen and understand all

00:42:33.750 --> 00:42:35.969
that data, but you start putting all these layers,

00:42:35.969 --> 00:42:38.130
you know, stacked on top of each other, and you

00:42:38.130 --> 00:42:39.769
just can appear in and look at it. It's like,

00:42:39.849 --> 00:42:42.969
oh, well, tropospheric ducting, like there's

00:42:42.969 --> 00:42:45.429
this, you know, used weather satellites, like,

00:42:45.510 --> 00:42:49.349
oh, there's these atmospheric, you know, things

00:42:49.349 --> 00:42:52.449
going on that would be good for tropospheric

00:42:52.449 --> 00:42:56.300
ducting, so. Let's give it a try and gives you

00:42:56.300 --> 00:42:58.260
more opportunity to have fun and talk and gives

00:42:58.260 --> 00:43:01.019
you more opportunity to have people on the other

00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:03.360
side to actually hear you because if you're all,

00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:06.219
you know, looking at the same data. Yeah, and

00:43:06.219 --> 00:43:08.840
then combine that with the ability to see how

00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:12.920
efficiently your own antenna is getting out there

00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:14.900
and being able to aim it in the direction that

00:43:14.900 --> 00:43:16.920
you need to aim it to be able to do those types

00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:19.960
of things. Seeing that in 3D is going to be incredibly

00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:21.860
helpful. Yeah, yeah, we're just starting to see

00:43:21.860 --> 00:43:24.539
glimmer of this. Both Amy and I do quite a bit

00:43:24.539 --> 00:43:28.079
of FTH and think that's quite fun. I think it's

00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:34.190
DxMaps. hooks into the spotting network plus

00:43:34.190 --> 00:43:36.789
takes all the data off your FT8 rig and shows

00:43:36.789 --> 00:43:40.409
you lines on a flat map of where your signal

00:43:40.409 --> 00:43:43.590
has been heard. Now imagine combining that into

00:43:43.590 --> 00:43:47.010
more of a 3D map and you could have algorithms

00:43:47.010 --> 00:43:50.010
in your computer to start to calculate, well,

00:43:50.389 --> 00:43:53.170
most likely you're doing some kind of skip off

00:43:53.170 --> 00:43:55.550
the atmosphere and that's why you're only seeing

00:43:55.550 --> 00:43:58.670
signals in this region of the United States and

00:43:58.670 --> 00:44:01.130
then it's bouncing and then going to another

00:44:01.130 --> 00:44:06.130
region. Could help you to understand like You

00:44:06.130 --> 00:44:08.090
know what's happening with your signal in more

00:44:08.090 --> 00:44:09.789
real -time just through these spotting networks

00:44:09.789 --> 00:44:12.409
And maybe it'll be encourage people to put more

00:44:12.409 --> 00:44:14.250
spotting networks up and we'd have even more

00:44:14.250 --> 00:44:19.929
data to work with Again endless possibilities

00:44:19.929 --> 00:44:25.090
here, I think Of course I said some great ideas

00:44:25.090 --> 00:44:28.570
there too. I have to mention. I mean I'm talking

00:44:28.570 --> 00:44:31.239
like When I worked at Valve Software, I like

00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:33.519
to say I got to see 20 years into the future.

00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:36.480
We're only seven years into what I got to see

00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:39.900
through this boot four stuff we did. We're talking

00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:42.360
very aspirational. It's going to take a lot of

00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:44.639
clever ham radio operators working with these

00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:49.139
augmented reality systems to make this happen.

00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:51.360
It's not going to happen on day one, but for

00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.199
you adventurous folks, you can go to our Kickstarter.

00:44:54.420 --> 00:44:57.500
It's tilt five on Kickstarter. Just spill it

00:44:57.500 --> 00:45:02.099
out. And you can be on the bleeding edge of working

00:45:02.099 --> 00:45:07.000
on this stuff. Yeah, and we'll kind of recap

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:09.840
that again here at the end. And if you've got

00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:12.199
a few minutes, I don't want to take too much

00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:14.300
of your time, but we'll go over a little bit

00:45:14.300 --> 00:45:17.280
here if you can stick around for a little bit.

00:45:17.300 --> 00:45:22.050
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You have us all night. Oh, no,

00:45:22.090 --> 00:45:26.469
we can't do that. But let's squeeze in a few

00:45:26.469 --> 00:45:29.210
other things here because, you know, one of the

00:45:29.210 --> 00:45:31.730
things that I always hear is, well, you know,

00:45:31.969 --> 00:45:35.590
if she started building chips at home in the

00:45:35.590 --> 00:45:39.789
garage, you know, she must know what she's doing.

00:45:40.050 --> 00:45:42.989
So tell us a little bit about how that all went.

00:45:44.090 --> 00:45:48.050
Oh, so I worked for many years as a chip designer.

00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:50.960
And so as a chip designer you sit in front of

00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:53.679
a terminal you type a lot on a keyboard and you

00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:56.599
use a mouse every once in a while and then you

00:45:56.599 --> 00:45:59.559
Send your electronic files off to this chip foundry

00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:02.579
somewhere in the world and like this chip comes

00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:06.860
back to you in a little plastic package and you

00:46:06.860 --> 00:46:11.780
never really Do anything like with the silicon

00:46:11.780 --> 00:46:15.559
so I'm like I really want to understand how this

00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:18.880
process works, like I want to touch these wafers.

00:46:19.539 --> 00:46:22.360
And I have a YouTube channel, Jerry Ellsworth,

00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:25.099
if you look me up on YouTube, where I try to

00:46:25.099 --> 00:46:28.599
distill down complicated science and do it at

00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:31.840
home in the garage. So all kinds of optic stuff,

00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:35.400
laser things, sometimes I'll do art projects.

00:46:37.059 --> 00:46:39.820
Mag loop, for the people that are gonna call

00:46:39.820 --> 00:46:41.619
in and ask about the second video on the mag

00:46:41.619 --> 00:46:43.900
loop, someday it'll come. You don't need to call

00:46:43.900 --> 00:46:48.780
in. But this is one of those things. It was a

00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:51.719
real stretch for me. So I started buying every

00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.780
book I could on semiconductor process and started

00:46:55.780 --> 00:46:57.960
researching. I started off with fairly modern

00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.960
books where it's like you got to have class one

00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:04.360
zillion clean room and you have to have millions

00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:07.260
of dollars of equipment to do it. And then I

00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:09.079
started looking at books that were much older

00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:12.940
and got books from the 70s and the 60s and 50s

00:47:12.940 --> 00:47:16.539
and I got really fascinated You know You look

00:47:16.539 --> 00:47:19.699
at a book from the 60s. It was not clear how

00:47:19.699 --> 00:47:21.579
Integrated circuits were going to come about

00:47:21.579 --> 00:47:24.860
there were a lot of crazy ideas that these scientists

00:47:24.860 --> 00:47:27.480
were working on and they were doing them pretty

00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:31.900
much on Work benches with no clean rooms and

00:47:31.900 --> 00:47:37.099
with really simple gear and then very much like

00:47:37.099 --> 00:47:39.019
how I got into electronics. I went out and I

00:47:39.019 --> 00:47:41.300
looked for mentors that were experts in the area.

00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.699
So I started talking to some folks that worked

00:47:43.699 --> 00:47:47.000
at companies like Fairchild and National Semiconductor

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:50.760
back in the 60s and 70s. And they took me under

00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.679
their wing and told me a lot about how the process

00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:57.000
worked. And then I got on eBay and started buying

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:02.820
surplus gear and trying a bunch of things. And

00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:06.699
I bought wafers off of eBay in various places

00:48:06.699 --> 00:48:10.760
and started experimenting It took me five years

00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:12.860
and I had actually right next to all my gear

00:48:12.860 --> 00:48:15.599
I had a mason jar that was completely full of

00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:18.599
little pieces of silicon where I'd done experiments

00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:21.239
and none of them have worked and it actually

00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:25.880
came up to this one point after hundreds or I

00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:27.719
Mean maybe even a thousand little experiments

00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:30.960
that one of my mentors is like just explained

00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:33.969
to me exactly what you're doing just In every

00:48:33.969 --> 00:48:37.469
detail and so I go I grow oxide on the wafer.

00:48:37.469 --> 00:48:40.829
I etch the wafer I put the diffusion source on

00:48:40.829 --> 00:48:44.489
it. So I pre dope it I etch it I patent blah

00:48:44.489 --> 00:48:46.690
blah blah and then I etch all of the oxide off

00:48:46.690 --> 00:48:49.730
and I put my metal contacts down and He kind

00:48:49.730 --> 00:48:51.989
of laughs and he's like, oh, that's such a newbie

00:48:51.989 --> 00:48:56.570
mistake Like everyone that back in the day knew

00:48:56.570 --> 00:49:01.260
you can't have a PN junction Exposed on the surface

00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:03.340
because you have dangling bonds and the electrons

00:49:03.340 --> 00:49:05.440
will just jump across the PN junction you need

00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:10.480
to leave your oxide layer on and It's like that

00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:13.380
one little thing like so I immediately went home

00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:16.900
Did a transistor left the oxide on worked perfectly?

00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:19.960
Well air quotes perfectly none of my transistors

00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:22.219
work perfectly because there's dirt and sodium

00:49:22.219 --> 00:49:24.599
in them and all kinds of contamination But it

00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:27.699
worked Then I made YouTube videos about it and

00:49:27.699 --> 00:49:29.519
then I made a simple little integrated circuit

00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:32.300
and ring oscillators and fun stuff like that

00:49:32.300 --> 00:49:34.880
But yeah, it was at least five years of research

00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:37.980
and I love projects like that. I did another

00:49:37.980 --> 00:49:41.219
one like that before transistors came along there

00:49:41.219 --> 00:49:45.780
was this magnetic logic which used just toroids

00:49:45.780 --> 00:49:49.360
very much like the Chokes that you use the toroids

00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:52.539
you use in balance but with special properties

00:49:52.539 --> 00:49:55.750
to them and It was going to be the replacement

00:49:55.750 --> 00:49:58.829
for vacuum tubes in computers. So I spent years

00:49:58.829 --> 00:50:02.469
researching this and I did a video on how magnetic

00:50:02.469 --> 00:50:05.809
logic works and that's super satisfying for me.

00:50:07.190 --> 00:50:13.929
Wow, incredible. That is just, it's such a maker

00:50:13.929 --> 00:50:19.010
-builder thing to do and you're ahead of the

00:50:19.010 --> 00:50:23.429
game on that. And it helps me in my career. I

00:50:23.429 --> 00:50:25.369
can't tell you how many times when I'm working

00:50:25.369 --> 00:50:27.630
on a professional project, even the augmented

00:50:27.630 --> 00:50:30.789
reality headset, I did much of the optics. I

00:50:30.789 --> 00:50:34.050
would not be prepared for doing this level of

00:50:34.050 --> 00:50:37.809
complex optics if I hadn't spent decades building

00:50:37.809 --> 00:50:42.550
and experimenting and being super curious. Tie

00:50:42.550 --> 00:50:45.449
it back to ham radio. That's what ham radio is

00:50:45.449 --> 00:50:49.440
about. Even if it's just making a simple dipole

00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:53.239
like having that intuitive feel for how Cutting

00:50:53.239 --> 00:50:55.320
wire and putting it together and having these

00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:59.460
complex interactions Against the ground like

00:50:59.460 --> 00:51:01.619
even with tilt 5 you're not going to be able

00:51:01.619 --> 00:51:03.679
to simulate it perfectly you got to get out there

00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:06.800
and learn that intuitive feel of like I built

00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:10.500
it now it doesn't work why and then Having those

00:51:10.500 --> 00:51:12.699
mentors around you and knowing to go find those

00:51:12.699 --> 00:51:18.800
mentors Mentoring is one of the critical things

00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:24.199
in ham radio and I think it's really Where there's

00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:26.880
Starting to be a real push now. It seems like

00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:29.639
there's there's a push in that direction and

00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:33.099
I hope that that That comes through. Well one

00:51:33.099 --> 00:51:36.639
other one to ask. Oh, go ahead One thing if you

00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:38.960
don't mind if I like throw this in because I

00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:43.650
think I think about this a lot and almost makes

00:51:43.650 --> 00:51:46.630
me get teary -eyed when I think about it. So

00:51:46.630 --> 00:51:54.010
all of my ham radio mentors took all this time

00:51:54.010 --> 00:51:57.269
in the 80s to teach me electronics and they encouraged

00:51:57.269 --> 00:51:59.769
me to get into ham radio. They're all silent

00:51:59.769 --> 00:52:04.489
keys now. But they don't even know how successful

00:52:04.489 --> 00:52:08.309
I became and that they planted, oh god I am getting

00:52:08.309 --> 00:52:12.809
teary -eyed, they planted the seed in me. be

00:52:12.809 --> 00:52:18.090
a mentor and to Get into ham radio later Yeah,

00:52:18.090 --> 00:52:21.909
and I think it's so important for for me and

00:52:21.909 --> 00:52:24.050
everyone else to know that you know Sometimes

00:52:24.050 --> 00:52:27.369
it doesn't feel like you're succeeding and mentoring

00:52:27.369 --> 00:52:30.929
young folks But you're planting that seed and

00:52:30.929 --> 00:52:34.289
someday when you're long gone pushing up daisies

00:52:34.289 --> 00:52:38.389
You're gonna make a big impact in their life

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:45.219
Well one last thing that I want to ask and I

00:52:45.219 --> 00:52:49.179
want to direct this to Amy Because she's the

00:52:49.179 --> 00:52:56.500
the self -proclaimed Swiss Army knife here How

00:52:56.500 --> 00:52:59.539
do you how do you How do you keep up with her

00:52:59.539 --> 00:53:02.019
and how do you go from answering the phone to

00:53:02.019 --> 00:53:07.359
building a prototype? So I have kind of a pretty

00:53:07.359 --> 00:53:10.300
varied background. I've always been a builder

00:53:10.300 --> 00:53:12.360
maker myself my entire life. In fact, I think

00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:14.920
I was using most of my dad's tools when I was

00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:17.699
a kid more often than he was and he'd always

00:53:17.699 --> 00:53:19.780
get mad at me because he'd come into the garage

00:53:19.780 --> 00:53:21.199
and wouldn't be able to find his stuff whenever

00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:22.659
he needed it because it would be off in the corner

00:53:22.659 --> 00:53:25.780
where I was building something. I ended up going

00:53:25.780 --> 00:53:29.500
to school for and studying sculpture. And then

00:53:29.500 --> 00:53:31.920
from there, what do you do with a BFA when you

00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:34.599
get out of college? You either go back and get

00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:38.280
a master's in fine arts or you end up doing something

00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:40.179
else. Well, I ended up going back and getting

00:53:40.179 --> 00:53:42.800
a master's in public administration and then

00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:46.480
ended up working for the city of Seattle in arts

00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:49.099
administration for about 14 years, doing a lot

00:53:49.099 --> 00:53:51.940
of office logistics and stuff like that related

00:53:51.940 --> 00:53:55.320
to grants that the office gave out and whatnot.

00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:59.420
So I had a very long period of time where I was

00:53:59.420 --> 00:54:03.239
doing that kind of office administration and

00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:07.079
I still was building stuff on the side and Ended

00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:10.800
up meeting the team Jerry's first company that

00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:13.920
she started after she left valve ended up meeting

00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:16.519
that team and falling in love with what they

00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:18.960
were working on and ended up following them down

00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:20.880
to the Bay Area and eventually ended up working

00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:22.780
with them and being I think the 11th employee

00:54:22.780 --> 00:54:25.809
that they brought on board and Everything changed

00:54:25.809 --> 00:54:27.289
at that point because I was brought on board

00:54:27.289 --> 00:54:30.530
to do stuff that was not office administration

00:54:30.530 --> 00:54:33.670
type work I was actually brought on to do calibration

00:54:33.670 --> 00:54:36.269
of their early glasses and and from there like

00:54:36.269 --> 00:54:38.070
being the maker that I am I started seeing that

00:54:38.070 --> 00:54:41.170
there was a need to get my hands and Into things

00:54:41.170 --> 00:54:42.889
and start helping the engineers with things I

00:54:42.889 --> 00:54:45.710
needed to build fairly rapidly and I have that

00:54:45.710 --> 00:54:48.530
background So I just started doing that and eventually

00:54:48.530 --> 00:54:51.130
that ended up leading to a full -time job with

00:54:51.130 --> 00:54:55.489
the company And so for me, you know I would love

00:54:55.489 --> 00:54:57.530
to spend most of my days like building stuff.

00:54:57.809 --> 00:55:00.610
That's what I'm truly passionate about. And then

00:55:00.610 --> 00:55:02.750
since we're such a small team right now, you

00:55:02.750 --> 00:55:05.650
kind of have to wear multiple hats. So I've been

00:55:05.650 --> 00:55:08.289
picking up a lot of office work as well, doing

00:55:08.289 --> 00:55:10.530
a lot of the logistical coordination for things,

00:55:10.809 --> 00:55:13.570
for dealing with manufacturers, for taking care

00:55:13.570 --> 00:55:17.420
of Jerry's schedule. And then I'll get a request,

00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:19.260
we need to build something really fast, and then

00:55:19.260 --> 00:55:20.900
I'll quickly go build something really fast,

00:55:20.940 --> 00:55:22.380
and then I'll come right back to doing the other

00:55:22.380 --> 00:55:24.500
stuff. So I'm just kind of all over the place.

00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:27.099
I'm pretty good at that. And I think it was either

00:55:27.099 --> 00:55:28.960
Jerry or one of the other folks in the office

00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:32.039
that gave me the name Swiss Army Knife, and it

00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:34.780
just sort of stuck. She's being very modest.

00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:39.920
Very, very modest. Amy's extremely intelligent.

00:55:41.849 --> 00:55:44.050
and tenacious. She's like the hunting badger

00:55:44.050 --> 00:55:46.550
around the office. Like you could give her the

00:55:46.550 --> 00:55:49.610
task of like these Chinese manufacturers having

00:55:49.610 --> 00:55:53.690
problem with this kind of lamination of the game

00:55:53.690 --> 00:55:57.110
board. You need to solve it and she'll go find

00:55:57.110 --> 00:56:01.230
out like the science behind the adhesives and

00:56:01.230 --> 00:56:03.289
like guide them through it and figure out how

00:56:03.289 --> 00:56:07.530
to communicate with the factory. Truly, a Swiss

00:56:07.530 --> 00:56:20.829
Army knife is a great I actually thrive on this

00:56:20.829 --> 00:56:23.210
type of stuff. I'm I'm very much one of these

00:56:23.210 --> 00:56:25.329
types of people I think a lot like Jerry as well.

00:56:25.329 --> 00:56:29.250
My mind is constantly spinning with ideas and

00:56:29.250 --> 00:56:32.510
if I if I have too much downtime I start to get

00:56:32.510 --> 00:56:36.309
incredibly bored So having a lot to do kind of

00:56:36.309 --> 00:56:39.070
all at once is sort of how I I work the best

00:56:39.449 --> 00:56:42.489
Which is like the perfect DNA for a startup,

00:56:43.469 --> 00:56:46.190
because startups are not for everyone. It's not

00:56:46.190 --> 00:56:48.889
your nine to five job. It's sometimes 20 hours

00:56:48.889 --> 00:56:53.789
a day. Our team is extremely small. We have like

00:56:53.789 --> 00:56:57.989
five people working on the project. It's incredible

00:56:57.989 --> 00:56:59.849
what we've been able to do, but you've got to

00:56:59.849 --> 00:57:02.489
constantly hustle because you have to keep the

00:57:02.489 --> 00:57:04.570
lights on, you've got to keep everyone fed, you've

00:57:04.570 --> 00:57:06.260
got to like... You got to do the promotion, you

00:57:06.260 --> 00:57:07.940
got to work with the factory, you got to get

00:57:07.940 --> 00:57:09.940
the logistics in place, you got to write all

00:57:09.940 --> 00:57:14.320
the software, you got to inspire people. But

00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:18.900
on the flip side, it's quite a thrill being on

00:57:18.900 --> 00:57:23.539
the cutting edge of new technology and like blazing

00:57:23.539 --> 00:57:26.239
a new trail into this way that people are going

00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:31.480
to compute in the future. Well, you all have

00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:34.659
spent an hour with us and we're very grateful

00:57:34.659 --> 00:57:39.460
that you've done that and already getting some

00:57:39.460 --> 00:57:43.280
some comments of great show and great information

00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:47.420
and so we're really looking forward to seeing

00:57:47.420 --> 00:57:51.179
this grow and develop and these new things and

00:57:51.179 --> 00:57:56.300
new ideas and how this is all going to play in

00:57:56.300 --> 00:58:02.269
and help learning of all kinds. we're especially

00:58:02.269 --> 00:58:06.190
looking for the the ham radio options here on

00:58:06.190 --> 00:58:10.190
this show, but Before we go remind us again about

00:58:10.190 --> 00:58:14.309
the Kickstarter Because yeah, you you got to

00:58:14.309 --> 00:58:18.050
keep the lights on and and and the the team feds

00:58:18.050 --> 00:58:20.989
here so remind people how they can get involved

00:58:20.989 --> 00:58:25.869
with the Kickstarter and How much longer you

00:58:25.869 --> 00:58:30.530
have on that campaign So I think we have about

00:58:30.530 --> 00:58:33.170
11 days left on the campaign. It's either 10

00:58:33.170 --> 00:58:36.650
or 11 days. And people can find us if they go

00:58:36.650 --> 00:58:39.769
to Kickstarter and they type in Tilt 5, both

00:58:39.769 --> 00:58:43.510
words spelled out, and then look for holographic

00:58:43.510 --> 00:58:48.219
tabletop. Gaming they'll be able to find us We're

00:58:48.219 --> 00:58:50.260
lucky enough to be one of the the projects that

00:58:50.260 --> 00:58:52.860
the Kickstarter stuff loves so that kind of pulls

00:58:52.860 --> 00:58:55.460
us to the top Amongst all the mix of everything

00:58:55.460 --> 00:58:57.500
that's in there. So we should be pretty easy

00:58:57.500 --> 00:59:00.920
to find in there We're also on on Twitter and

00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:03.340
we we tweet a lot about the the stuff that we're

00:59:03.340 --> 00:59:05.480
doing with the Kickstarter campaign And we've

00:59:05.480 --> 00:59:07.280
been announcing a lot of our new partners on

00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:10.719
there as well. So people can find us either way

00:59:12.269 --> 00:59:15.869
Yeah, and I think if you're if you're if you

00:59:15.869 --> 00:59:18.650
just want to see this technology, you know exist,

00:59:18.650 --> 00:59:21.050
you know, we're doing something really special

00:59:21.050 --> 00:59:27.710
and It's a worthwhile thing to back All right,

00:59:27.949 --> 00:59:31.210
well that's how you can help out go to Kickstarter

00:59:31.210 --> 00:59:35.570
and look up tilt 5 and and Check all that out.

00:59:35.570 --> 00:59:40.099
Okay, any final comments before we go? It's been

00:59:40.099 --> 00:59:45.099
an honor. It's been a pleasure Well, it's really

00:59:45.099 --> 00:59:48.719
been a pleasure to talk to you and Jerry I I

00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:51.420
must have passed you like five times at Dayton

00:59:51.420 --> 00:59:54.380
and and I was so busy and you were so busy that

00:59:54.380 --> 00:59:57.420
I Never did have a chance to to stop and say

00:59:57.420 --> 01:00:02.619
hi. So so I am now but Hopefully we can catch

01:00:02.619 --> 01:00:05.550
up in the future Yeah, there's always a date.

01:00:05.889 --> 01:00:07.429
So yeah, if you're gonna be a date in this next

01:00:07.429 --> 01:00:08.869
year I think we're both gonna try to make it

01:00:08.869 --> 01:00:10.829
out there again, and then we're at Pacific on

01:00:10.829 --> 01:00:14.050
this weekend So if anyone listening has questions

01:00:14.050 --> 01:00:20.530
just look for the redhead and black haired There's

01:00:20.530 --> 01:00:23.510
not a lot of women wandering around as much as

01:00:23.510 --> 01:00:26.130
men so we should be easy to spot Yeah, feel free

01:00:26.130 --> 01:00:27.849
to come up and chat with us. We love chatting

01:00:27.849 --> 01:00:31.440
with people All right. Well, there you go. Well,

01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:34.760
thank you so much for being on the show and we

01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:37.880
look forward to hearing from you again as this

01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:40.840
progresses. Thank you so much for having us on.

01:00:41.079 --> 01:00:45.340
Thank you. All right. Well, that is a wrap for

01:00:45.340 --> 01:00:48.119
this week's edition of HamTalk Live. Thanks to

01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:52.159
my guests, Jerry Ellsworth, AI6TK, and Amy Herndon,

01:00:52.300 --> 01:00:55.880
AI6ZU, and everybody out there in cyberspace

01:00:55.880 --> 01:00:58.900
for listening and typing in tonight. and invite

01:00:58.900 --> 01:01:02.019
you back next Thursday night at 9 p .m. Eastern

01:01:02.019 --> 01:01:05.300
Time. And for a list of all of our upcoming guests,

01:01:05.380 --> 01:01:09.420
just go over to HamTalkLive .com. And if you

01:01:09.420 --> 01:01:12.059
like HamTalk Live, please leave us a review.

01:01:12.059 --> 01:01:14.719
That helps others find us a little bit faster.

01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:18.900
So for now, this is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG, saying

01:01:18.900 --> 01:01:22.920
seven three, seven five, and may the good DX

01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:47.829
be yours. Thanks for watching!