WEBVTT 00:00:09.169 --> 00:00:11.949 Thanks for tuning in. HamTalk Live will be on 00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:27.949 the air shortly. Please stand by. This episode 00:00:27.949 --> 00:00:31.550 of HamTalk Live is brought to you by Tower Electronics. 00:00:31.969 --> 00:00:36.229 For connectors, cables, and more, call 920 -435 00:00:36.229 --> 00:00:42.969 -2973 or visit pl -259 .com. And by ICOM, heard 00:00:42.969 --> 00:00:48.210 it, worked it, logged it. Visit www .icomamerica 00:00:48.210 --> 00:00:51.929 .com slash amateur for more information about 00:00:51.929 --> 00:01:30.290 ICOM radios. Hey, good evening everyone. It's 00:01:30.290 --> 00:01:35.469 time for HamTalk Live. It's episode number 188. 00:01:35.829 --> 00:01:40.769 Stealth Antennas and HOAs recorded live on Thursday, 00:01:41.230 --> 00:01:45.709 October 31st, 2019. I'm your host, Neil Rapp, 00:01:45.849 --> 00:01:49.829 WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning in to this episode 00:01:49.829 --> 00:01:53.090 of HamTalk Live. Tonight we're joined by John 00:01:53.090 --> 00:02:00.840 Portoon, W6NBC. And we'll take your calls live 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.319 in just a few minutes. Last week here on the 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:07.140 show, Don Wilbanks, AE5DW was here to talk about 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:12.400 the Newsline Amateur Radio Club, WA6ITF Memorial 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:16.360 Call Sign and Club Station. If you missed the 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:19.759 show, you can listen anytime at HamTalkLive .com 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:23.360 or on your favorite podcast app or YouTube, or 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:29.080 you can catch the rebroadcast. on WTWW 5085 A 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:32.740 .M. Saturday evenings at about 630 P .M. Eastern 00:02:32.740 --> 00:02:37.060 Time. So get your stealth antenna questions ready 00:02:37.060 --> 00:02:39.520 to go if you're listening to us live on Thursday 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:43.020 night. You'll be able to give us a call after 00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:46.979 we talk to John a little bit. The phone number 00:02:46.979 --> 00:02:56.500 is 812 -638 -4261. Again, 812 -638 -4261 is the 00:02:56.500 --> 00:02:58.479 phone number. Have that handy. I'll give it to 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:02.939 you again when it's time to call in and ask your 00:03:02.939 --> 00:03:05.620 questions. Or you can tweet us. You can tweet 00:03:05.620 --> 00:03:08.979 us right now if you like. It's at HamTalk Live 00:03:08.979 --> 00:03:11.780 on Twitter. And I'll be checking in over there 00:03:11.780 --> 00:03:14.919 from time to time tonight to... See what you 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:17.259 have to say, so I'll be back with John right 00:03:17.259 --> 00:03:20.199 after this word from ICOM America right here 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:24.500 on HamTalk Live. Heard it, worked it, logged 00:03:24.500 --> 00:03:27.400 it. 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And of course, 00:04:29.990 --> 00:04:34.279 the IC7851 keeps your competitive contesting 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:37.699 edge with faster processors, higher input gain, 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:40.399 higher display resolution, and a cleaner signal. 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:44.959 ICOM's IC7851 is the pinnacle of HF perfection. 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.300 It has dual receivers, digital IF filters, memory 00:04:48.300 --> 00:04:50.980 keyer, digital voice recorder, high resolution 00:04:50.980 --> 00:04:54.120 spectrum waterfall display, enhanced PC connectivity, 00:04:54.379 --> 00:04:57.399 and an SD memory card slot. For more information 00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:04.290 on ICOM radios, be sure to visit two antennas 00:05:04.290 --> 00:05:06.829 met on a roof, fell in love, and got married. 00:05:07.449 --> 00:05:10.250 The ceremony wasn't much, but the reception was 00:05:10.250 --> 00:05:13.310 excellent. You're listening to HamTalk Live with 00:05:13.310 --> 00:05:27.860 Neil Rapp. Thanks as always to ICOM America for 00:05:27.860 --> 00:05:30.980 bringing HamTalk Live your way each and every 00:05:30.980 --> 00:05:35.079 Thursday night at 9 p .m. Eastern Time. Right 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:39.379 here at HamTalkLive .com. Be sure you check out 00:05:39.379 --> 00:05:45.060 ICOM at ICOMAmerica .com slash amateur. My guest 00:05:45.060 --> 00:05:52.930 tonight is John Portun, W6NBC. and he's been 00:05:52.930 --> 00:05:58.209 a ham since 1965 John is active from 160 meters 00:05:58.209 --> 00:06:02.029 to 2 .4 gigahertz and helps get people licensed 00:06:02.029 --> 00:06:06.389 and helps people once they get licensed He does 00:06:06.389 --> 00:06:09.410 a lot of local two meter and 40 meter mobile 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:15.009 from his RV and is married to KF6OEB. Has three 00:06:15.009 --> 00:06:18.129 married children and 12 grandchildren. John retired 00:06:18.129 --> 00:06:21.029 in 2002 and spent most of his career working 00:06:21.029 --> 00:06:24.670 at, yes you guessed it, an NBC television station. 00:06:24.829 --> 00:06:30.199 It was KNBC TV in Los Angeles. also ampex corporation 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.899 and sony electronics and he frequently writes 00:06:33.899 --> 00:06:39.560 for qst uh 23 articles since 2001 and one's coming 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.920 up in the december issue about a six meter version 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:46.259 of the popular two meter slot cube which is featured 00:06:46.259 --> 00:06:52.639 in the january 2019 qst and other ham radio publications 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.420 including how to deal with hoas and antennas 00:06:55.420 --> 00:06:58.899 which is what I asked John to talk about tonight. 00:06:59.300 --> 00:07:02.959 So John, welcome to the show. My pleasure to 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:06.339 be here, Neil. Great fun. Now we were talking 00:07:06.339 --> 00:07:09.740 before the show that, you know, as I was prepping 00:07:09.740 --> 00:07:13.560 this and every time I saw your call sign, I wanted 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:18.899 to play the NBA on NBC theme, but there's all 00:07:18.899 --> 00:07:22.100 kinds of copyright violations for that. So we 00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:25.279 won't do that tonight, but But I couldn't resist 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.800 at least playing the chimes. Whenever we say 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:32.839 your call sign, then we'll play the chimes. I 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:35.040 used to have them built into my car so I could 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:37.740 push a button anytime I wanted to send them out 00:07:37.740 --> 00:07:43.680 on two meter repeaters. You know, we actually 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:48.160 turned the repeater courtesy tone one time into 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:52.519 the NBC chimes. That was kind of fun. That is 00:07:52.519 --> 00:08:02.550 fun. So, John Portun, W6NBC, is here to talk 00:08:02.550 --> 00:08:05.509 about stealth antennas. So, we're going to quit 00:08:05.509 --> 00:08:09.129 all that nonsense here. Let's talk a little bit 00:08:09.129 --> 00:08:12.689 about the HOAs first. What are some of those 00:08:12.689 --> 00:08:16.269 challenges of having an antenna in a restricted 00:08:16.269 --> 00:08:19.889 area, like a homeowners association? How can 00:08:19.889 --> 00:08:23.430 someone be successful in getting permission from 00:08:23.430 --> 00:08:28.290 the HOA or the local government or whoever is 00:08:28.290 --> 00:08:33.129 in control? Well, that is an extremely difficult 00:08:33.129 --> 00:08:36.490 question. I think a lot has been published in 00:08:36.490 --> 00:08:40.330 the ham magazines and bandied about because homeowners 00:08:40.330 --> 00:08:44.309 associations are difficult because we know they 00:08:44.309 --> 00:08:47.309 really do have the authority. I sometimes think 00:08:47.309 --> 00:08:50.580 it's too much, but but you signed that covenant 00:08:50.580 --> 00:08:54.980 of agreement and so they do have a right. I tend 00:08:54.980 --> 00:08:58.019 a little bit to stay away from the HOAs directly 00:08:58.019 --> 00:09:01.159 though I certainly do deal with them because 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:04.659 there's a special breed of person in an HOA committee 00:09:04.659 --> 00:09:07.320 but I'm sure you know what that means and so 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:10.820 I'm not a such a I'm not really a political person. 00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:15.179 I prefer to go with disguising your antenna and 00:09:15.179 --> 00:09:17.860 dealing directly with my neighbors more than 00:09:17.860 --> 00:09:22.740 trying to get the board to do things. But there 00:09:22.740 --> 00:09:28.700 are some guidelines. You must understand the 00:09:28.700 --> 00:09:31.860 public, the people that you're dealing with in 00:09:31.860 --> 00:09:35.899 this case. These people around you, they're afraid 00:09:35.899 --> 00:09:40.559 of ham antennas and CB antennas, which most of 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:43.679 them think what you are. They're afraid you're 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:46.940 going to wreck their television. You know the 00:09:46.940 --> 00:09:49.519 syndrome. We call it the NIMBY syndrome. Don't 00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:53.960 do this in my backyard. But here are my guidelines. 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:57.879 Here's the list of my guidelines that I use in 00:09:57.879 --> 00:10:02.799 dealing with HOAs. Diplomacy, that's number one. 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:05.700 A lot of hams want to get in there and fight 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:09.860 with them. I highly recommend you don't. Don't 00:10:09.860 --> 00:10:12.179 flaunt your rights because you really haven't 00:10:12.179 --> 00:10:14.360 got many rights when it comes right down to it. 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:18.059 They've pretty much got the power. So gently, 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.039 be gentle with them. But, and this is some things 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.639 a lot of people in HOA don't understand, you 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:29.740 do need to let them know you are a ham. Don't 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:32.399 try to hide that fact from them, but deal with 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:36.700 them gently. And demonstrate to them slowly that 00:10:36.700 --> 00:10:40.259 you're not going to hurt them, that your transmissions 00:10:40.259 --> 00:10:42.200 aren't going to blow their television setup. 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:48.539 Another guideline I have is don't push public 00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:52.220 safety with them. People in HOAs aren't concerned 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:54.759 about public safety. They don't care that you 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.399 saved a half a million people in Hurricane Katrina. 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:05.820 And lastly, work with people in a group. Don't 00:11:05.820 --> 00:11:08.519 try to do it yourself. Get together a number 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:11.440 of other haves that will work with you to approach 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.639 if you're going to try to approach it. For example 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:17.639 down in Sun City in Florida a whole bunch of 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.980 the hands down there in Sun City worked together 00:11:20.980 --> 00:11:24.159 and they showed them an attractive design and 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:27.080 Surprisingly, they got their answer. They got 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:29.940 permission. So those are some of my guidelines 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:35.259 Neil Yeah, and I've actually been down to Sun 00:11:35.259 --> 00:11:41.879 City in Florida and they have one of the Communities 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:45.389 they have a ham radio station there in the in 00:11:45.389 --> 00:11:48.750 the clubhouse and you can they've got beams and 00:11:48.750 --> 00:11:52.090 everything you know they they but you go there 00:11:52.090 --> 00:11:55.129 to do it and and maybe that's you know another 00:11:55.129 --> 00:11:58.309 another way around some of those restrictions 00:11:58.309 --> 00:12:02.269 is you know you you have the the you know the 00:12:02.269 --> 00:12:06.490 local club facility um but you know it's a whole 00:12:06.490 --> 00:12:08.809 lot nicer to have it at home and and there's 00:12:08.809 --> 00:12:13.399 there's ways around that so let's Say that you're 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:17.620 not going to, you know, take on the HOAs. You're 00:12:17.620 --> 00:12:20.779 not going to take on those challenges or you 00:12:20.779 --> 00:12:23.740 can't overcome those challenges to have the antenna 00:12:23.740 --> 00:12:25.840 that you really want. You know, you can't have 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:30.159 that, you know, stack set of 40 meter Yagis. 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:36.740 What kind of stealth options are available and 00:12:36.740 --> 00:12:42.480 really work? But as I would like to say, They're 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:47.980 not being hid. They're blending into the environment. 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:53.519 Well, you've got the actual answer right there 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:58.659 on the tip of your tongue. The key, in my estimation, 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:03.679 is not to try to hide the antenna, but hide it 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.440 in plain view. That's the best disguise. What 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:10.259 do I mean by hide it in plain view? Very simple. 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:13.759 make it so it doesn't look like an antenna or 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:17.279 make it so it looks like it belongs on your rooftop. 00:13:17.740 --> 00:13:20.399 I mean, how recently have you looked up at your 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:22.580 neighbor's rooftop and seen all sorts of things 00:13:22.580 --> 00:13:25.139 up there but never thought much about them because 00:13:25.139 --> 00:13:27.700 they belong there? Now, let me give you some 00:13:27.700 --> 00:13:32.200 examples. I got started in this thing some years 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:36.440 ago now here. One of my early QST articles was 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:40.570 about making my television disk, my my direct 00:13:40.570 --> 00:13:44.409 TV dish act as a two meter antenna. And I published 00:13:44.409 --> 00:13:48.529 an article on putting a slot antenna in the reflector. 00:13:49.350 --> 00:13:52.409 That antenna's gone viral. Just go on the internet 00:13:52.409 --> 00:13:54.669 and search for it. You'll find it everywhere. 00:13:55.669 --> 00:13:59.389 But the big hit has been the flagpole. You know, 00:13:59.389 --> 00:14:01.950 a lot of hams, when they look at flagpole, say, 00:14:01.970 --> 00:14:04.230 oh, that makes a great antenna. But they don't 00:14:04.230 --> 00:14:06.350 know it's quite a challenge to make a flagpole 00:14:06.350 --> 00:14:09.179 work as an antenna. It may seem simple, because 00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:11.759 it looks like a vertical. Well, it is, but it's 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:16.399 got to be done right. Well, I designed a flagpole 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.379 antenna, which is a no -radial, but you can't 00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:23.980 have radials in a small mobile home park. So 00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:27.559 it was a center -fed antenna. It's currently 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.220 being sold by Grayline Performance. You can see 00:14:30.220 --> 00:14:35.000 it at flagpoleantenna .com. They've sold hundreds 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.480 of them now. I don't have any interest in the 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:39.759 company, although I talk to the owner quite often. 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:46.039 Also, I built another antenna called the slot 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:50.399 tube, a little 11 -inch square tube made out 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:53.580 of copper pipe, one of the ham's favorite building 00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:57.460 materials. And there's a six -meter one coming, 00:14:57.500 --> 00:15:01.820 by the way, in December, USD. And currently, 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.600 I'm working on, and it will probably be out in 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:08.570 the future, maybe even commercially, the 25 foot 00:15:08.570 --> 00:15:12.669 double delta loop. It's in prototype right now 00:15:12.669 --> 00:15:17.029 and the prototype you can see in July QSD. But 00:15:17.029 --> 00:15:21.029 the keys to, really the keys to stealth and hiding 00:15:21.029 --> 00:15:26.070 it in plain view, some of them are these. Make 00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:30.190 it small. Don't be afraid of small antenna designs. 00:15:31.169 --> 00:15:33.309 There are many good ones out there and that's 00:15:33.309 --> 00:15:36.639 what I tend to concentrate on. Another one which 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:40.659 is real interesting is make it patriotic. Put 00:15:40.659 --> 00:15:43.679 a dare flag on it. Put an MIA flag on it. Put 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.799 an American flag on it. I once disguised one 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:49.240 of mine by wrapping red, white, and blue plastic 00:15:49.240 --> 00:15:51.580 tape around the loading coil. People thought 00:15:51.580 --> 00:15:54.820 I was being patriotic. Or make it look like a 00:15:54.820 --> 00:15:59.000 fixture that fits on the roof. Hide it inside 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.840 of a vent pipe. You know, we've probably heard 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:05.159 of the ventenna. Well, it's the kind of beginning 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:08.279 of my thinking about that. Or if you can, make 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.259 it look like a TV antenna. I've got one designed 00:16:11.259 --> 00:16:14.279 right now that may come out in a while, which 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:17.480 looks just like one of these common TV antennas. 00:16:17.659 --> 00:16:21.000 And as you know, the public won't let you take 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:23.419 their television away. So if they think that 00:16:23.419 --> 00:16:26.039 thing on your roof is a television antenna, even 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.220 though you're not supposed to have them, they're 00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:31.100 not going to tell you to take it down. And of 00:16:31.100 --> 00:16:33.720 course, as you suggest, put it in the attic. 00:16:34.309 --> 00:16:36.970 Don't be afraid of attic antennas. They work 00:16:36.970 --> 00:16:39.490 fine I've got a design on the breadboard right 00:16:39.490 --> 00:16:42.269 now for a for one that may come out in some months 00:16:42.269 --> 00:16:45.509 Don't be afraid of the ducts Your tuner will 00:16:45.509 --> 00:16:48.509 take care of it. Anyway, those are some of the 00:16:48.509 --> 00:16:51.289 over some of the stealth Recommendations that 00:16:51.289 --> 00:16:54.809 I've been into and and you know, it's not even 00:16:54.809 --> 00:16:59.980 just hands I've noticed more and more that The 00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:03.320 cellular industry is coming up with all kinds 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:08.880 of creative ways to get their antennas up on 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:13.460 buildings and in public, you know, places and 00:17:13.460 --> 00:17:16.920 the antennas are in plain view, but they blend 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:21.039 in and people don't seem to complain about them 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.119 as much. Yeah, I've been considering a design 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:27.980 of putting some fake palm tree fronds on one 00:17:27.980 --> 00:17:34.430 of my verticals. There are some things that you 00:17:34.430 --> 00:17:41.650 can do to make it blend in and look more natural 00:17:41.650 --> 00:17:48.930 and not so offensive to people who are looking 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:56.369 at this big monster antenna. It helps to have 00:17:56.369 --> 00:18:01.069 it. to where it's not quite so obnoxious and 00:18:01.069 --> 00:18:06.750 visible. Now my plan is I don't want to move 00:18:06.750 --> 00:18:11.230 anywhere where there's an HOA. I just want to 00:18:11.230 --> 00:18:15.950 put up everything and I really lucked out here 00:18:15.950 --> 00:18:21.130 because I'm up on a nice hill and the homeowners 00:18:21.130 --> 00:18:25.430 association was supposed to happen when all of 00:18:25.430 --> 00:18:30.380 the lots sold And luckily a ham that lived in 00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:33.980 this neighborhood caught me when I moved in, 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:36.640 saw my license plate with the Cole sign on it 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:39.740 and stopped in and said, Hey, did you know, have 00:18:39.740 --> 00:18:43.099 you seen the, you know, the, the HOA guidelines? 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:45.640 And I'm like, no, nobody told me about them. 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:47.539 You know, I didn't know they existed. And he's 00:18:47.539 --> 00:18:50.200 like, I'll get you a copy of them. I'll bring 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:52.660 you a copy of them tomorrow. But if you're going 00:18:52.660 --> 00:18:55.099 to put something up, put it up now, because then 00:18:55.099 --> 00:18:58.450 your grandfathered in. So I'm like, okay, we 00:18:58.450 --> 00:19:02.849 gotta get this tower in now So I call up, you 00:19:02.849 --> 00:19:04.609 know, a friend of mine's okay We gotta get this 00:19:04.609 --> 00:19:07.069 tower in before you know before this happens 00:19:07.069 --> 00:19:10.730 and luckily the homeowners Association never 00:19:10.730 --> 00:19:14.750 did get formed So I haven't had to worry about 00:19:14.750 --> 00:19:17.549 it. Now. I'm looking at you know moving again, 00:19:17.549 --> 00:19:20.750 and I'm like, oh my gosh I don't I don't want 00:19:20.750 --> 00:19:25.109 any HOAs and I'm not gonna try to get on this 00:19:25.109 --> 00:19:28.839 political rant because If you know me, I'm like 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:34.519 very, very anti -restriction politically. And 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:39.319 so I just like, I don't want HOAs at all, but 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:44.099 you know, it may have to be that way. So, so 00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:48.980 I got to have a plan. So this is good stuff to 00:19:48.980 --> 00:19:53.900 talk about. Sure it is. Like I say, you just 00:19:53.900 --> 00:19:57.259 got to not be belligerent. Let your neighbors 00:19:57.259 --> 00:20:02.359 know you're a ham, but show them by demonstrating 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.900 to them slowly that the little antennas or the 00:20:05.900 --> 00:20:08.759 ones that don't look like antennas that go up 00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:10.839 aren't blowing their television away. So when 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:12.599 they're walking down the street, walking their 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:15.420 dog, they don't say, hey, Martha, what's that 00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:17.319 thing up on the roof? It's going to blow up our 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:21.140 TV. Don't put something up there that looks like 00:20:21.140 --> 00:20:23.500 that. There are plenty of designs that don't 00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:25.880 do that. I've written seven articles on this 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:29.660 kind of stuff, so I know it. Now, let me ask 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:34.220 you this. Let's say you put up some kind of a 00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:41.339 dipole. Is there a best color to kind of blend 00:20:41.339 --> 00:20:45.500 everything in? You know, that's something I've 00:20:45.500 --> 00:20:47.339 asked a lot of people think. If you paint the 00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:51.880 antenna blue, it'll match the sky. No, I don't 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:54.160 think so. If I was going to paint an antenna, 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:58.140 I'd paint it gray because gray more likely blends 00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:01.160 in with the sky. Blue stands out. It's visible. 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:04.279 Black is in contrast. So if you're going to paint 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:07.059 your antenna, make it blue. I mean, make it gray. 00:21:08.180 --> 00:21:12.460 All right. Very good. Well, how does this legislation 00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:17.720 play into the power that the HOAs have? Is PRB 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.289 -1 effective? I mean we've had this around for 00:21:21.289 --> 00:21:25.410 forever it seems like but is it really effective 00:21:25.410 --> 00:21:29.049 and what do you think it's going to take to get 00:21:29.049 --> 00:21:32.950 something that is? That's a very good question 00:21:32.950 --> 00:21:35.849 and I've been following the ham radio parody 00:21:35.849 --> 00:21:40.250 act process which unfortunately I get the impression 00:21:40.250 --> 00:21:45.329 is not going anywhere. PRB1 most hams have to 00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:50.329 recognize does not have any effect on CCNRs if 00:21:50.329 --> 00:21:53.250 you've signed a deed of covenant with your homeowners 00:21:53.250 --> 00:21:59.690 association. TRB1 is not effective. TRB1 mainly 00:21:59.690 --> 00:22:02.529 has to do with local governments. There you can 00:22:02.529 --> 00:22:05.309 use it if you decide to go to the building commission 00:22:05.309 --> 00:22:07.849 and they say, no, you can't have a tower. You 00:22:07.849 --> 00:22:11.569 can haul out TRB1 and that's legitimate. But 00:22:11.569 --> 00:22:13.950 if it comes to the homeowners association, Frank, 00:22:13.950 --> 00:22:17.720 you don't have too much to do. so really it's 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.140 speak softly and don't carry a big stick we're 00:22:21.140 --> 00:22:24.980 hoping for the ham yeah yeah we're hoping for 00:22:24.980 --> 00:22:27.480 the ham radio parody act but i don't know it 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:31.000 seems to have gone away hope not though yeah 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:36.759 and i see uh uh greg um his last name escapes 00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:42.450 me the congressman from uh oregon It's been fighting 00:22:42.450 --> 00:22:45.710 for a lot of this Greg Walden Just announced 00:22:45.710 --> 00:22:51.190 that he's retiring so That's kind of disappointing 00:22:51.190 --> 00:22:53.630 I don't know if he'll be able to get that through 00:22:53.630 --> 00:22:57.349 before he leaves office or not, but He's been 00:22:57.349 --> 00:23:02.009 a big help to ham radio in the legislative side, 00:23:02.049 --> 00:23:05.829 so We will see how that goes, but it would be 00:23:05.829 --> 00:23:08.730 nice to to get something with some teeth in it 00:23:09.069 --> 00:23:12.549 Well, I've talked enough with John here to get 00:23:12.549 --> 00:23:16.190 things started. We're going to take a break and 00:23:16.190 --> 00:23:19.410 then we're going to answer your calls and your 00:23:19.410 --> 00:23:23.089 questions right after this word from Tower Electronics 00:23:23.089 --> 00:23:26.769 right here on HamTalk Live. This episode of HamTalk 00:23:26.769 --> 00:23:29.829 Live is brought to you in part by Tower Electronics. 00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:32.460 Tower Electronics has been the Ham's Dime Store 00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:35.859 since 1978. When you need connectors, mobile 00:23:35.859 --> 00:23:39.140 and handheld antennas, cables or adapters, visit 00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:42.720 Scott or Jill at a HamFest near you. Or you can 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:48.900 order online at PL -259 .com or call 920 -435 00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:53.920 -2973. Stock up on those supplies like PL -259 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:57.200 and end connectors, SMA adapters, audio cables, 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:00.660 soldering supplies, mobile antennas, and hamsticks. 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:03.039 Their silver -plated end connectors are even 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.700 used on the International Space Station. Tower 00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:09.519 Electronics carries MFJ, Comet, Daiwa, OPEC, 00:24:09.779 --> 00:24:13.039 Workman, and HamPro products. And don't miss 00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:17.099 their 0 % off sale going on now. Tower Electronics 00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:21.359 online at PL -259 .com. Proud to sponsor this 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:26.210 episode of HamTalk Live. Join the conversation. 00:24:26.470 --> 00:24:31.009 Give us a call at 812 -NET -HAM -1. That's 812 00:24:31.009 --> 00:24:42.950 -638 -4261. Now, here's more HamTalk Live. Here's 00:24:42.950 --> 00:24:45.670 the snap. Rapp takes the rig. He breaks through 00:24:45.670 --> 00:24:50.400 the pile up. He's on 80, now 40, now 20, 15, 00:24:50.720 --> 00:25:24.980 10, two meters, touchdown Hamtok Live. Thanks 00:25:24.980 --> 00:25:27.079 to Tower Electronics for bringing the show your 00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:30.240 way. They will be in Lawrenceville, Georgia this 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.519 weekend, November 2nd and 3rd, then moving on 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:38.480 to Montgomery, Alabama. The Hamfest there, November 00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:41.720 8th and 9th, and then Fort Wayne, Indiana on 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.819 November 16th and 17th. And you can catch them 00:25:45.819 --> 00:25:52.680 online anytime at PL -259 .com. HamTalk Live 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:56.259 is on the air Thursday nights at 9 p .m. Eastern 00:25:56.259 --> 00:25:59.980 Time right here at HamTalkLive .com and be sure 00:25:59.980 --> 00:26:02.240 to check us out on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram 00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:05.259 and it's time for your calls now. So if you have 00:26:05.259 --> 00:26:11.819 a question for John, we'll do it again, for John 00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:20.640 W6NBC. Give us a call at eight one two six three 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.039 eight four two six one. That's eight one two 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:30.220 net ham one 812 -638 -4261 or you can tweet us. 00:26:30.220 --> 00:26:32.099 We do have a tweet here We'll get to that here 00:26:32.099 --> 00:26:36.099 in just a second It's at ham talk live over on 00:26:36.099 --> 00:26:39.319 Twitter and if you're listening to us on WTWW 00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:43.200 or on the podcast edition We're not here. It's 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:45.859 Thursday. So sorry. We're not going to be able 00:26:45.859 --> 00:26:49.660 to take your questions here So hopefully you 00:26:49.660 --> 00:26:53.099 can you can send them in next time or call in? 00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:59.839 Let's go first to John. Let's go first to Brett 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:06.799 and Wy7BG. There it is. He put phonetics on. 00:27:06.980 --> 00:27:10.059 I missed it. Okay. I missed his call sign. So 00:27:10.059 --> 00:27:13.640 he has a question for you. He says, what is your 00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:16.960 opinion of the ARRL's most recent petition for 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.740 rulemaking on this topic? Do you think it asks 00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:23.279 too little, too much or about right? And if you 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.000 could write an FCC regulation that gave the hams 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.519 the right to have antennas, what would it say? 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:39.960 Well, I have to admit that I'm not very familiar 00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:46.720 with that petition. I'm generally pleased with 00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.420 what the ARRL does. Yes, they're conservative, 00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:53.599 but... I think that's in our own interest. Largely 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:59.039 what PRB1 is, is pretty much what I'd like to 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:02.359 see present for everything, or basically what 00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:06.440 was embodied in the Ham Radio Parity Act. Give 00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:11.519 us at least reasonable accommodation and go ahead 00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.359 and set some antenna height limits. You can build 00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:18.130 antennas within heights, but I probably haven't 00:28:18.130 --> 00:28:24.130 answered your question, but that's my large feeling, 00:28:24.549 --> 00:28:26.750 unless you have something more specific about 00:28:26.750 --> 00:28:33.529 the ARRL's petition that I could talk to. So 00:28:33.529 --> 00:28:38.690 you're thinking that the PRB -1, you know, just 00:28:38.690 --> 00:28:43.420 making that into Into a law to where it has some 00:28:43.420 --> 00:28:48.839 teeth would be good or or just the regular version 00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:53.400 of the parody act the way it was Yeah, I like 00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:56.099 the parody act I thought it basically had the 00:28:56.099 --> 00:29:00.700 right words in it and If it had been passed I 00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:03.579 think we'd have had it what we really have long 00:29:03.579 --> 00:29:06.240 wanted just the fact that we have some official 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:10.230 status against the absolute authority that HOAs 00:29:10.230 --> 00:29:16.950 have. Yeah, I agree. And something is better 00:29:16.950 --> 00:29:20.490 than nothing. And there's a lot of places where 00:29:20.490 --> 00:29:25.549 there's just not a whole lot of options. So we'll 00:29:25.549 --> 00:29:28.549 go back to some of those options, though. You've 00:29:28.549 --> 00:29:32.130 got some camouflaging options that you can do 00:29:32.130 --> 00:29:36.519 to kind of make things blend in and Some of the 00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:39.660 attic options, and then you've got this this 00:29:39.660 --> 00:29:43.460 What was it a double Delta loop you said? Yeah, 00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:46.039 this is a design. I think will will be pretty 00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:49.900 good itself in my backyard right now My HOA has 00:29:49.900 --> 00:29:54.119 absolute no on antennas or on transmitting antennas 00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:56.440 and yet This one's been up for two months now. 00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:59.559 I've heard nothing from them because it just 00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:02.720 doesn't look like an antenna Yes, it's a thing 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.839 that sticks up in the air but it's in the backyard. 00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:10.619 If you look at the January QST where there's 00:30:10.619 --> 00:30:12.900 an article I wrote on the kite antenna, which 00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:17.579 is the prototype of it, it's a delta -shaped 00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:22.339 double loop made from wires 25 feet high and 00:30:22.339 --> 00:30:25.319 eight -foot arms at the top made of fiberglass, 00:30:25.779 --> 00:30:29.200 all built from DX engineering aluminum poles 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:34.089 and the fiberglass rods. and wire down to an 00:30:34.089 --> 00:30:37.009 autotuner at the base. Covers all bands 80 to 00:30:37.009 --> 00:30:41.789 6 meters and has some distinct advantages. It's 00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:44.690 horizontally polarized and yet it's a vertical. 00:30:45.130 --> 00:30:47.890 It acts like a vertical. Low radiation angle 00:30:47.890 --> 00:30:53.569 and it has gain. Yes, a vertical with gain. 6 00:30:53.569 --> 00:30:59.779 dB gain on 10 meters and pretty omni on 80. It's 00:30:59.779 --> 00:31:04.240 quite a design. I presented it at Pacificon here 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:08.900 recently, and it was quite well received. So 00:31:08.900 --> 00:31:13.900 you don't have to use the classical big ham antenna 00:31:13.900 --> 00:31:16.720 with all the loading coils and the radials and 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.299 all that stuff. There are many designs that just 00:31:20.299 --> 00:31:23.319 don't look like antennas. And again, that's the 00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:26.599 key, hide it in plain view, something that doesn't 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.339 really look like an antenna. When Martha and 00:31:30.339 --> 00:31:32.980 Joe go walking down the street, they say, what's 00:31:32.980 --> 00:31:35.859 that antenna? They'll say, hmm, that's interesting. 00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:39.900 Or hang a dare flag on it, hang an MIA flag on 00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:43.180 it, hang a US flag on it. That helps a great 00:31:43.180 --> 00:31:45.799 deal. And of course, the flagpole antenna is 00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.759 a wonderful stuff. Nobody knows that one's an 00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:54.799 antenna. Now, now with this with this delta loop 00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:57.910 and the kind of the kite shape, could you Did 00:31:57.910 --> 00:32:01.509 you put like a kite body on it? So you had the 00:32:01.509 --> 00:32:03.329 fabric in the middle, you know, that kind of 00:32:03.329 --> 00:32:07.029 waved to make it look like it was a decoration? 00:32:08.470 --> 00:32:11.089 No, I didn't. I think that would have too much 00:32:11.089 --> 00:32:14.250 wind loading. But I only called it a kite because 00:32:14.250 --> 00:32:17.650 the original was shaped like a kite. Just the 00:32:17.650 --> 00:32:21.029 pole and guy cables to hold it up. It's a portable 00:32:21.029 --> 00:32:23.750 antenna for field day kind of a thing. But this 00:32:23.750 --> 00:32:26.470 one that I have in my backyard now is freestanding. 00:32:26.670 --> 00:32:32.029 in a ground pipe and it stands up at 25 feet. 00:32:32.230 --> 00:32:36.069 It's an inverted delta, a narrow inverted delta, 00:32:36.329 --> 00:32:42.360 two of them at 90 degrees to each other. 812 00:32:42.360 --> 00:32:45.519 -638 -4261 is the phone number if you'd like 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:49.319 to ask a question give us a call right now 812 00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:54.900 -638 -4261 or you can tweet us over at HamTalk 00:32:54.900 --> 00:33:01.019 Live and CarlKD9HQT has a question here as well 00:33:01.019 --> 00:33:04.519 it just came in on Twitter I have to use antenna 00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:07.619 mass and antennas better sort of camouflage but 00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:11.880 visible Um, but I don't live in an HOA area and 00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:14.059 outside of city limits and neighbors don't care 00:33:14.059 --> 00:33:16.299 about the antennas that installed on my property. 00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:21.960 So, you know, there are ways of, of making this 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:26.859 work. And, um, I, when I posted some promotions 00:33:26.859 --> 00:33:29.619 for this show, I posted one of the pictures of 00:33:29.619 --> 00:33:33.779 the flagpole antenna and, and it just does look 00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:36.640 so natural. I really like the idea of the flagpole. 00:33:38.060 --> 00:33:45.299 Oh, the flagpole is doing very well. And it was 00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:47.859 just such a nothing of an idea when I first conceived 00:33:47.859 --> 00:33:51.619 of it. But yet, Grey Line Performance has been 00:33:51.619 --> 00:33:56.259 selling them very well. And that's the one that 00:33:56.259 --> 00:33:58.880 Sun City down in Florida gave official approval 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:04.519 for. And it's a full, no radio, 80 through 6 00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:08.820 meter vertical. Yes, it's a small antenna. Yes, 00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:12.119 it's somewhat compromised, but people are certainly 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:14.440 using it with great effect where they wouldn't 00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:18.599 have an antenna without it. Yeah, I just think 00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:23.119 that's a great option. So let's talk a little 00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:25.639 bit more about some of the attic options because, 00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:28.219 you know, there are some people who have, you 00:34:28.219 --> 00:34:30.280 know, some room up in the attic and they want 00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:33.469 to... you know if they keep everything inside 00:34:33.469 --> 00:34:38.130 then you know they can't can't really see anything 00:34:38.130 --> 00:34:40.469 to complain about so what are what are some of 00:34:40.469 --> 00:34:45.170 your suggestions on those well mostly attic antennas 00:34:45.170 --> 00:34:49.769 are going to have to be some form of horizontal 00:34:49.769 --> 00:34:52.530 dipole i don't i don't think you have too much 00:34:52.530 --> 00:34:56.269 choice you haven't got enough room for for verticals 00:34:56.269 --> 00:35:00.309 and uh and not enough room for any of the sort 00:35:00.309 --> 00:35:03.539 of cubical type antennas that might do it. Now, 00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:07.840 of course, on six meters, the cubical slot that's 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:11.300 coming out in the December issue is a great attic 00:35:11.300 --> 00:35:13.699 antenna if you want to put it up there on your 00:35:13.699 --> 00:35:15.900 six meter bump. The two meter one will go up 00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:19.019 there too, but the two meter slot cube is so 00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:23.000 small. Again, it's very stealthy and it doesn't 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:26.300 look like an antenna. I've got one of those up 00:35:26.300 --> 00:35:30.079 and nobody ever notices it. But basically, attic 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.860 antennas are going to have to be dipoles suspended 00:35:33.860 --> 00:35:37.840 from basically suspended from the rafters. You're 00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:40.440 probably going to need loading coil in it of 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:42.860 some form. And of course, in the attic, you can 00:35:42.860 --> 00:35:46.820 use a tap loading coil for different bands. And 00:35:46.820 --> 00:35:50.199 don't be afraid of the ducts. Yes, they're going 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:52.380 to have an effect on the antenna, but they're 00:35:52.380 --> 00:35:56.320 not going to make it not work because they are 00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.730 just going to provide some change of radiation 00:35:59.730 --> 00:36:07.650 pattern mainly. So I recommend shortened dipoles 00:36:07.650 --> 00:36:13.090 primarily for the addict. Alright, very good. 00:36:13.469 --> 00:36:18.610 812 -638 -4261 is the phone number if you'd like 00:36:18.610 --> 00:36:22.650 to call. We have a few more minutes here with 00:36:22.650 --> 00:36:29.380 John, W6NBC. So if you'd like to call in give 00:36:29.380 --> 00:36:31.760 us a call eight one two net ham one eight one 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:35.780 two six three eight four two Six one or tweet 00:36:35.780 --> 00:36:40.360 us and we'll check here a couple of times For 00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:44.920 any more questions That may come along as we 00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:49.239 finish things up here tonight So John you've 00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:53.380 got this this QST article coming up you got anything 00:36:54.409 --> 00:36:58.090 In the plans next after after that six meter 00:36:58.090 --> 00:37:02.449 comes out. Oh Yeah, I always have two or three 00:37:02.449 --> 00:37:06.150 projects in mind. Well, that'll probably be followed 00:37:06.150 --> 00:37:11.369 with a stealthy TV antenna One that looks like 00:37:11.369 --> 00:37:15.610 a TV antenna. In fact, the log periodic portion 00:37:15.610 --> 00:37:19.130 of it is actually actually is a TV antenna a 00:37:19.130 --> 00:37:22.869 UHF and TV antenna But it's got two skeleton 00:37:22.869 --> 00:37:25.900 slots behind it one for two meters and one for 00:37:25.900 --> 00:37:30.199 six meters that look just like the kind of back 00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:33.559 elements you see on a typical small TV antenna. 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.300 In my mobile home park here, there are quite 00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:42.639 a few of those up, even though antennas for transmitting 00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.699 have been forbidden. You see a lot of those TV 00:37:45.699 --> 00:37:48.300 antennas up. They're just little small ones. 00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:50.920 They're readily available. Many people have them. 00:37:51.179 --> 00:37:55.179 And of course, homeowners are not going to have 00:37:55.179 --> 00:37:59.559 anything against TV antennas. Why, that's almost 00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:03.159 a constitutional right to have TV. So if your 00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:06.159 antenna looks like a TV antenna, and that's what 00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:12.340 this one is going to be. Okay. Interesting ideas. 00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.099 So we'll be looking for more of that in upcoming 00:38:15.099 --> 00:38:18.780 issues of QST Magazine, and make sure you check 00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:22.769 out the January edition for the... the six meter 00:38:22.769 --> 00:38:26.349 antenna. So, John, I want to thank you for coming 00:38:26.349 --> 00:38:29.130 on the show and any last words here before we 00:38:29.130 --> 00:38:35.630 go. Yes, be diplomatic, be patriotic, let them 00:38:35.630 --> 00:38:39.090 know you're a ham and speak softly and don't 00:38:39.090 --> 00:38:46.349 carry a big stick. Very good. Well, I thank you 00:38:46.349 --> 00:38:50.349 so much for all of your insight and ideas and 00:38:50.349 --> 00:38:54.090 look forward to hearing more about These antennas 00:38:54.090 --> 00:38:57.750 as time goes on and I wish you well there and 00:38:57.750 --> 00:39:01.550 keep on the good work there in the good fight 00:39:01.550 --> 00:39:06.730 Well, we'll keep it up it's The greatest thing 00:39:06.730 --> 00:39:10.510 in life, you know, I I always wish I could do 00:39:10.510 --> 00:39:12.750 some of the things that I do now in retirement 00:39:12.889 --> 00:39:15.610 I wish somebody had told me retirement are the 00:39:15.610 --> 00:39:20.409 best years. Anyway, so that's where I am. All 00:39:20.409 --> 00:39:22.409 right, John. Well, thank you so much for coming 00:39:22.409 --> 00:39:25.369 on and we look forward to hearing from you again. 00:39:26.389 --> 00:39:31.510 My pleasure. Well, that is a wrap for this week's 00:39:31.510 --> 00:39:34.130 edition of HamTalk Live. Thanks to my guest, 00:39:34.630 --> 00:39:41.119 John Portoon, W6NBC. And everybody out there 00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:43.639 in cyberspace for listening and calling in and 00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:46.460 typing in and invite you back next Thursday night 00:39:46.460 --> 00:39:50.099 at 9 p .m. Eastern Time. For a list of all of 00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:54.639 our upcoming guests, visit HamTalkLive .com and 00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:57.699 if you like HamTalk Live, please consider leaving 00:39:57.699 --> 00:40:00.849 us a review on iTunes. or wherever you listen, 00:40:01.070 --> 00:40:04.429 it helps others find us faster. So for now, this 00:40:04.429 --> 00:40:08.590 is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG, saying seven three, seven 00:40:08.590 --> 00:40:11.969 five, and may the good DX be yours.