WEBVTT 00:00:09.870 --> 00:00:12.669 Thanks for tuning in. Hamtalk Live will be on 00:00:12.669 --> 00:00:25.510 the air shortly. Please stand by. This episode 00:00:25.510 --> 00:00:29.089 of HamTalk Live is brought to you by Tower Electronics. 00:00:29.510 --> 00:00:33.789 For connectors, cables, and more, call 920 -435 00:00:33.789 --> 00:00:40.530 -2973 or visit pl -259 .com. And by ICOM, heard 00:00:40.530 --> 00:00:45.750 it, worked it, logged it. Visit www .icomamerica 00:00:45.750 --> 00:00:49.469 .com slash amateur for more information about 00:00:49.469 --> 00:01:26.689 ICOM radios. Good evening, everyone. It's time 00:01:26.689 --> 00:01:32.189 for HamTalk Live episode number two, two, nine. 00:01:33.290 --> 00:01:37.150 The number stations recorded live on Thursday, 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:42.510 September 24th, 2020. I'm your host, Neil Rapp, 00:01:42.709 --> 00:01:47.049 WB9VPG. Thanks for tuning in to this episode 00:01:47.049 --> 00:01:50.349 of HamTalk Live. Tonight, we're joined all the 00:01:50.349 --> 00:01:54.939 way from Latvia. We have Maris Goldmanis. and 00:01:54.939 --> 00:01:57.299 we'll take your calls in just a few minutes. 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.980 Last week here on the show, Frank Bauer, KA3 00:02:00.980 --> 00:02:07.439 HDO, Lou McFadden, W5 DID, and Kerry Banky, N6IZW 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:09.699 were here to talk about the new radio system. 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.639 on the International Space Station. If you missed 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:16.419 that show, you can listen anytime at HamTalkLive 00:02:16.419 --> 00:02:21.259 .com or on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube, 00:02:21.740 --> 00:02:24.360 or you can catch the rebroadcast of this show 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:31.680 on WTWW 5085 AM. And that's on Saturday afternoons 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:37.000 at about 3 .30 PM Eastern time. So I hope you 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:39.460 have some questions tonight. You can tweet those 00:02:39.460 --> 00:02:41.539 in or give us a call. I'll give you the phone 00:02:41.539 --> 00:02:44.199 number here in just a minute so you can write 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:46.979 it down or stick it in your phone and have it 00:02:46.979 --> 00:02:50.539 ready to go. But if you're listening to us live 00:02:50.539 --> 00:02:54.629 on Thursday night. you'll be able to give us 00:02:54.629 --> 00:02:57.870 a call after the interview and It's not time 00:02:57.870 --> 00:03:00.909 to call just yet. We're going to talk to Manus 00:03:00.909 --> 00:03:04.590 a little bit But the number to call when you're 00:03:04.590 --> 00:03:08.889 when we're ready here is eight five nine nine 00:03:08.889 --> 00:03:17.150 eight two seventy three seventy three 8 5 9 9 00:03:17.150 --> 00:03:22.250 8 2 73 73 and again you can tweet us if you'd 00:03:22.250 --> 00:03:25.849 rather type than than talk the Twitter handle 00:03:25.849 --> 00:03:30.150 is at ham talk live and if you're listening on 00:03:30.150 --> 00:03:34.199 speaker you can type a comment in and We'll be 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:37.439 checking those throughout the evening. Um, a 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:39.819 couple of announcements here, uh, before we get 00:03:39.819 --> 00:03:44.120 started, uh, the Nashua area radio society, QSO 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.139 party is this weekend. So we talked about that 00:03:48.139 --> 00:03:51.780 on the show, uh, last week, uh, that's at in 00:03:51.780 --> 00:03:55.340 one F D .org for more information about that. 00:03:55.419 --> 00:03:58.199 But, uh, if you have time this weekend, get on 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:01.639 the air and participate in their, uh, QSO party. 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:05.550 And there's a lot of, uh, A lot of QSO parties 00:04:05.550 --> 00:04:08.530 and contests coming up in the next three or four 00:04:08.530 --> 00:04:14.930 weeks, so check that one out at n1fd .org. Also, 00:04:15.009 --> 00:04:18.009 I'm sad to announce that we've lost a friend 00:04:18.009 --> 00:04:23.930 of the show. My cousin, Doug Hayes, K9JJS from 00:04:23.930 --> 00:04:26.509 Mount Vernon, Illinois, became a silent key on 00:04:26.509 --> 00:04:30.259 Tuesday morning. Doug was my inspiration to building 00:04:30.259 --> 00:04:33.420 computers and he spent a lot of time on fast 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:36.240 scan television and satellites back in the day. 00:04:37.399 --> 00:04:41.060 And Doug, we're going to miss you. Well, I'll 00:04:41.060 --> 00:04:44.540 be back with Maris and we'll talk about these 00:04:44.540 --> 00:04:48.480 number stations right after this word from ICOM 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:52.540 America right here on HamTalk Live. Get out and 00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:57.300 be active with ICOM's new IC705 and its optional 00:04:57.300 --> 00:05:01.439 multi -function backpack. The IC705 is your perfect 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:04.660 QRP companion as you have base station features 00:05:04.660 --> 00:05:07.399 and functionality at the tip of your fingers 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:10.560 in a portable package covering HF, 6 meters, 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:13.959 2 meters and 70 centimeters. This compact rig 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:17.220 weighs in at 1 kilogram or just over 2 pounds 00:05:17.220 --> 00:05:21.079 with RF direct sampling for most of the HF band 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.839 and IF sampling for frequencies above 25 megahertz 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:28.420 and a large 4 .3 inch color touchscreen with 00:05:28.420 --> 00:05:31.550 live band scope and waterfall. It runs 5 watts 00:05:31.550 --> 00:05:36.029 with a BP272 battery, 10 watts with 13 .8 volts 00:05:36.029 --> 00:05:40.290 DC. You have sideband, CW, AM, FM, as well as 00:05:40.290 --> 00:05:43.610 full D -star functions. The touch screen, micro 00:05:43.610 --> 00:05:47.290 USB connector, Bluetooth, wireless LAN, integrated 00:05:47.290 --> 00:05:50.670 GPS with antenna and GPS logger, the micro SD 00:05:50.670 --> 00:05:54.149 card slot, speaker mic, comes standard and supports 00:05:54.149 --> 00:05:58.089 QRP operations. And the perfect accessory for 00:05:58.089 --> 00:06:03.339 your IC705 optional backpack LC -192 with a special 00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:07.120 compartment for your IC -705 and room for accessories 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.339 for soda activations are just a day in the park. 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:14.339 The IC -705 has now received FCC certification 00:06:14.339 --> 00:06:17.060 and we expect product to be shipping to dealers 00:06:17.060 --> 00:06:21.420 by the end of September. Visit icomamerica .com 00:06:21.420 --> 00:06:25.879 slash amateur for more information on ICOM radios. 00:06:26.339 --> 00:06:28.819 Five out of four people have trouble with fractions. 00:06:29.230 --> 00:06:32.629 Now, here's Neil Rapp with more HamTalk Live. 00:06:47.850 --> 00:06:51.750 Welcome back to HamTalk Live. Thanks to ICOM 00:06:51.750 --> 00:06:55.699 for sponsoring the show. Check them out at icomamerica 00:06:55.699 --> 00:07:02.279 .com slash amateur and that new IC 705. Tonight 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:09.699 we have with us from Latvia Maris Goldmanis and 00:07:09.699 --> 00:07:14.420 he's with the Numbers Stations Research and Information 00:07:14.420 --> 00:07:18.420 Center, a project that is dedicated to the research, 00:07:18.699 --> 00:07:22.139 monitoring, information gathering and publishing 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:27.360 about numbers, stations, military stations, and 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:31.920 other shortwave radio phenomenon. And their website 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:38.420 is at numbers dash stations .com. And he, along 00:07:38.420 --> 00:07:43.720 with Ryan Schaum, uh, from here in the U S, uh, 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:47.279 manage that site and that program. And they have 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:51.180 people all around the world. uh, participating 00:07:51.180 --> 00:07:55.180 in this, but, uh, Maris was kind enough to, to 00:07:55.180 --> 00:07:58.480 get up at three in the morning to, uh, to be 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:02.160 with us. So, uh, good morning. Good morning. 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:07.740 Yes. It's, uh, it's great to have you on and 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:10.100 you're one of the few that have been on the show 00:08:10.100 --> 00:08:14.120 that has not been a ham radio operator, but we're 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:18.810 here to talk about some. um high frequency stations 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:22.970 and some some that a lot of ham radio operators 00:08:22.970 --> 00:08:28.149 have heard and have been fascinated by and that's 00:08:28.149 --> 00:08:31.529 these numbers stations and when hams are tuning 00:08:31.529 --> 00:08:36.009 across the hf bands um and usually outside of 00:08:36.009 --> 00:08:38.830 the amateur radio bands will run into something 00:08:38.830 --> 00:08:41.250 that that kind of sounds like this so let me 00:08:41.250 --> 00:08:58.759 play this little clip here And it's just, it's 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:02.299 just numbers over and over and over again. And 00:09:02.299 --> 00:09:05.240 these, these stations called number stations 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:08.019 can be found several places. We'll talk about 00:09:08.019 --> 00:09:11.299 that in a little bit, but, but first, what is 00:09:11.299 --> 00:09:14.460 the purpose of just transmitting a whole bunch 00:09:14.460 --> 00:09:21.279 of numbers? Well, according to the popular opinion, 00:09:26.539 --> 00:09:30.720 the popular view, the people used to say it was 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:40.940 used by spy agencies. The same code messages 00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:47.360 the spies abroad. Well, this opinion, this spy 00:09:47.360 --> 00:10:06.899 station is confirmed by documents from declassified 00:10:06.899 --> 00:10:15.240 archives that are well sent over I'm sorry, let 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:20.740 me start again because it's my first time live 00:10:20.740 --> 00:10:26.059 on the radio. So first of all, the documents 00:10:26.059 --> 00:10:33.179 from Latvia, from France, from USA, like FBI, 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:39.039 like AGB and so on, they confirm that these stations 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:43.659 were used in past by spies. and they are used 00:10:43.659 --> 00:10:56.059 also now they are very many court events about 00:10:56.059 --> 00:11:04.620 espionage that show that they are used as one 00:11:04.620 --> 00:11:13.199 sided messages for spies from radio center that 00:11:13.199 --> 00:11:18.000 sends these code messages. These messages are 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:23.480 sent once to the spy, and the spy must decode 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:31.120 them and reply by other means. So they are not 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:37.399 like two -sided comms that come radio, they are 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:42.919 one -sided comms, one -sided messages. Another 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:48.220 thing which you hear, the number station is a 00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:52.279 military station sometimes. You hear them mostly 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:57.100 partially military, who very much uses the webcam 00:11:57.100 --> 00:12:05.720 radio bands for that. But it's very correct to 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:08.120 say that they are spy stations. They are used 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:14.179 by spies, not by the military. Okay. So, so they're 00:12:14.179 --> 00:12:17.120 sending out messages and they're coding these 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:21.799 with just a bunch of numbers. And so nobody knows, 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:26.720 uh, what the numbers really mean unless you can 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:30.080 decode those. And somehow they're, they're sending 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.840 out a message for, for some purpose. And, and 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:36.679 unless you can break the code, you really don't 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:42.759 know what what's going on. That is correct because 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:48.299 it's a one -time pad. It's a very sophisticated 00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:52.620 thing. It's a very complex thing. The spy must 00:12:52.620 --> 00:13:03.259 have always been responsible for the code book, 00:13:05.419 --> 00:13:11.590 the codes, the coding. Because the counter -intelligence 00:13:11.590 --> 00:13:14.809 could be watching him sometimes. Well, if they 00:13:14.809 --> 00:13:21.409 catch him, if they catch, if they hold him. But 00:13:21.409 --> 00:13:29.559 there's no other way to get those codes. without 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:32.919 getting those code books that are very small, 00:13:33.740 --> 00:13:36.559 very often very small, kept in some hidden somewhere 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:49.059 in a spy's house or in the computers because 00:13:49.059 --> 00:13:52.000 the simple person will not get hold of them. 00:13:52.740 --> 00:13:55.299 But counter -intelligence officials, they must 00:13:55.299 --> 00:14:00.879 get hold of them. But it's a very, it's a rare 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:05.899 thing to do to get these codes. Yeah. I would, 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:09.460 I would imagine so. And, and, you know, trying 00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:12.600 to, uh, to get the coded messages through, which, 00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:16.379 which is something, um, we're not allowed to 00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:20.200 do on ham radio. We have, we have, uh, Morse 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:23.539 code and those kinds of things, but But it has 00:14:23.539 --> 00:14:27.179 to be something that everyone can decode. It 00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:30.139 has to be a standard code, but, uh, these people 00:14:30.139 --> 00:14:34.899 are purposely sending coded messages about something 00:14:34.899 --> 00:14:41.720 and, uh, we, we don't often know what. the purpose 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:46.139 is. Where would on the bands, what frequencies 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:50.580 would you usually find these kinds of number 00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:54.659 stations on and is there a list? Is there a database 00:14:54.659 --> 00:15:00.240 that has a catalog of all of these stations that 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:04.659 you can listen to? Well our site has a large 00:15:04.659 --> 00:15:12.179 database of these. recordings are forced. We 00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:18.139 have a schedule, a prediction of where could 00:15:18.139 --> 00:15:24.320 be the next station. There are many sites, like 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.779 our site, that have these frequencies and other 00:15:26.779 --> 00:15:30.879 bases. There are some stations that come. In 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:36.700 our site there is Enigma 2000. There are some 00:15:36.700 --> 00:15:40.120 priorities and all. There is pre or morgue. Now 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:44.460 these sites have some predictions and profiles 00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:47.039 of these stations. But the number of stations 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.879 particularly change the frequencies very often. 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:52.779 Well, every month they change the frequencies 00:15:52.779 --> 00:15:57.679 because of the operation, because they do this. 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.840 But the military stations, for instance, they 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:06.960 often don't change the frequencies. You may have 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:12.539 heard of PIP, such thing that the Russian beacon 00:16:12.539 --> 00:16:20.139 that were broadcast on 3 .75 megahertz every 00:16:20.139 --> 00:16:23.559 night. They send their PIP, PIP, PIP in 80 meter 00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:29.279 handband all night and people just know that. 00:16:33.229 --> 00:16:45.210 very famous buzzer, 4, 6, 5 MHz. They also change 00:16:45.210 --> 00:16:51.429 the frequencies, but for the most part, the number 00:16:51.429 --> 00:16:56.889 stations from the intelligence agencies, they 00:16:56.889 --> 00:17:00.669 always change their frequencies at least a month. 00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:08.049 Not sure months, but as I mentioned, the number 00:17:08.049 --> 00:17:13.829 of stations come, there are more than 1000 people 00:17:13.829 --> 00:17:19.509 can find very much information about the frequency 00:17:19.509 --> 00:17:27.400 of these stations. Is there a particular band 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:32.339 that you hear them more often on, or do the bands 00:17:32.339 --> 00:17:37.119 just totally change too? Well, for the number 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:42.240 stations, they are heard pretty much all over 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:46.819 the band. Well, of course, they choose the frequencies 00:17:46.819 --> 00:17:50.259 because of their needs, because they need to 00:17:50.259 --> 00:17:53.839 send the signal to Russia. Russia needs to signal. 00:17:54.029 --> 00:18:03.130 Yes, they pick the frequencies by the propagation, 00:18:03.250 --> 00:18:10.329 by the reception. The Russian military, the Russian 00:18:10.329 --> 00:18:14.250 military, they mostly use frequencies between 00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:24.500 4 ,000 megahertz to 8 megahertz. very much you 00:18:24.500 --> 00:18:33.500 can hear russians in well between 3 mhz and russian 00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:37.319 military the US military is very famous for using 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:42.980 these emergency action messages that are like 00:18:42.980 --> 00:18:47.720 you may call skykings and so on they are very 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:51.640 many known frequencies across the band But I 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.920 would say that the dammer stations don't use 00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:04.359 that much. At home radio bands, they tend to 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:14.779 use more between the bands, because also sometimes 00:19:14.779 --> 00:19:22.170 you may hear the sound of the crane. they send 00:19:22.170 --> 00:19:27.509 their broadcasts and radio bands and sometimes 00:19:27.509 --> 00:19:33.609 people who are like on the... it's not jumping, 00:19:34.390 --> 00:19:38.470 it's not jumping these broadcasts. These broadcasts 00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:45.130 usually go on for some five minutes or ten minutes. 00:19:46.049 --> 00:19:49.210 So for some radio it's not really... Well, a 00:19:49.210 --> 00:19:52.170 big problem, because sometimes they can send 00:19:52.170 --> 00:20:02.829 radars or they can send some more, but a number 00:20:02.829 --> 00:20:07.410 of stations are not such a big problem for cum 00:20:07.410 --> 00:20:10.349 radio interference, as much cum radio trolls 00:20:10.349 --> 00:20:17.220 or some illegal stations. From Eritrea there 00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:20.599 is a station that uses a radio band, a vocal 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:28.539 station, and so on. But they have, well, if you 00:20:28.539 --> 00:20:35.359 scan all the radio bands, not just the radio 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:40.440 bands, but all the spectrum between her, between 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:51.910 one to... Okay. So, you know, so in that way, 00:20:52.069 --> 00:20:55.250 it is a lot like ham radio is you pick a band 00:20:55.250 --> 00:20:58.789 to get to where you want to go, uh, at the time 00:20:58.789 --> 00:21:01.549 of day. And so they're, they're doing the propagation 00:21:01.549 --> 00:21:04.490 thing, just like the ham radio operators are. 00:21:04.589 --> 00:21:07.230 If I wanted You know, if I want to talk to Europe 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:09.529 at a certain time of day, I'm going to pick a 00:21:09.529 --> 00:21:12.710 certain band to do that. And so they're just 00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:15.150 kind of doing the same thing. They, they just 00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:18.390 hop wherever they, they want to go. And, and 00:21:18.390 --> 00:21:20.730 I imagine they stay out of the ham bands because 00:21:20.730 --> 00:21:24.910 they, they want to kind of not be noticed and 00:21:24.910 --> 00:21:28.269 kind of, you know, not draw a whole lot of attention 00:21:28.269 --> 00:21:32.599 where Uh, a lot of these over the horizon radars 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:35.279 and that kind of thing will, you know, interfere 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:37.579 with the ham band because they're just, they're 00:21:37.579 --> 00:21:40.380 just sending out a signal so they can get it 00:21:40.380 --> 00:21:42.960 back and, and do the radar with it. And like 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:46.759 the, uh, the old Russian woodpecker, uh, that 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.079 would come on, you know, you'd be transmitting 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:51.539 and talking to somebody. And then as soon as 00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:55.359 you go back to receive, here's this, here's this 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.890 woodpecker noise going on. Uh, So, you know, 00:22:00.130 --> 00:22:02.750 it's, it's a little different than that. They 00:22:02.750 --> 00:22:31.420 want to not be noticed. here in the field by 00:22:31.420 --> 00:22:35.480 Hank who was saying, go away, go away. And the 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:39.460 person must, for the most part, the demo stations 00:22:39.460 --> 00:22:44.480 right now, they are repeated three times. If 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.019 there's traffic, there's an actual message there. 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:51.720 It's not zero, zero, zero. You have to transmit 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:54.480 this message three times on three frequencies, 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.509 one after one. And so a person must sit them 00:22:59.509 --> 00:23:05.910 down. With your merchant, such a person who is 00:23:05.910 --> 00:23:09.829 very nervous, his watch maybe, he must sit this 00:23:09.829 --> 00:23:14.609 down. And you are on the same frequency. I recall 00:23:14.609 --> 00:23:20.069 such things. In radio, someone says, you are 00:23:20.069 --> 00:23:27.109 on the same frequency. So usually... There is 00:23:27.109 --> 00:23:36.849 a tree with three broadcasts. And so, just once, 00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:42.710 they could use a radio band. Most part it's a 00:23:42.710 --> 00:23:46.390 radio band that is on 14 megahertz, very often 00:23:46.390 --> 00:23:53.930 used by number stations. There was a crane that 00:23:53.930 --> 00:24:16.859 got sent the broadcasts. If they're trying to, 00:24:16.859 --> 00:24:19.960 if they're trying to not be noticed and everything, 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:23.589 why? with all the direction, finding equipment 00:24:23.589 --> 00:24:25.750 and, and, you know, people doing transmitter 00:24:25.750 --> 00:24:29.690 hunts and, and being able to track down transmitter. 00:24:30.390 --> 00:24:34.289 Why, you know, isn't that kind of risky for somebody 00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:37.670 that's a spy station to just be sending out a 00:24:37.670 --> 00:24:40.670 high powered radio signal and, you know, somebody 00:24:40.670 --> 00:24:42.809 can track it down. What's the, what's to keep 00:24:42.809 --> 00:24:46.589 somebody from, from tracking them down? Well, 00:24:46.589 --> 00:24:50.650 it's, um, you know, in, um, there it was. There 00:24:50.650 --> 00:24:56.789 was a story in the 80s, when there were still 00:24:56.789 --> 00:25:03.549 CIA stations from the US. There was this... That 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:10.609 is like a valentine station. A valentine CIA 00:25:10.609 --> 00:25:16.480 train, a CIA station, sending messages. four 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.380 -digit messages to to to to to America and there 00:25:20.380 --> 00:25:25.220 were some people who actually took it down well 00:25:25.220 --> 00:25:29.119 that's another thing that signals a valentine 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:32.599 of course no one said nothing officially but 00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:36.380 you must understand why why why i said about 00:25:36.380 --> 00:25:40.920 valentine because all the caa all the russians 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:44.000 the chinese whoever said could use these stations 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:49.269 they use They use not simple transmitters, small 00:25:49.269 --> 00:25:56.509 transmitters. Their sites are covered. Their 00:25:56.509 --> 00:25:59.529 sites are very secret. But then again, if you 00:25:59.529 --> 00:26:02.670 track the signal, tracking the signal from a 00:26:02.670 --> 00:26:06.269 number station does not do you no good for counter 00:26:06.269 --> 00:26:08.809 -intelligence, because you may track the source 00:26:08.809 --> 00:26:16.809 of the signal, but you cannot track the... without 00:26:16.809 --> 00:26:20.349 the signal because you may know how the range 00:26:20.349 --> 00:26:26.190 or the range of the signal you may understand 00:26:26.190 --> 00:26:29.710 the signal goes to Moscow, the signal goes to 00:26:29.710 --> 00:26:32.849 what the Russians only see, but you cannot really 00:26:32.849 --> 00:26:35.809 understand by the action finding where is it, 00:26:36.349 --> 00:26:39.869 what radio, what lessons to it. So it's like 00:26:39.869 --> 00:26:44.079 you must... you must do some other things to 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.500 actually find that person who essence to the 00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:54.420 station, the purpose to decode it. Because Russians, 00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:57.900 the Soviets during the KG, during the Cold War 00:26:57.900 --> 00:27:01.859 knew where are those stations, where are those 00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:06.240 transmitters in Germany, send those signals to 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.880 Moscow. But they, but they must find some other 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:11.160 ways to find that person who actually listens 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:17.460 to them by, by, by purpose. And what about all 00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:20.319 the, you know, the digital technology and encryption? 00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:22.440 Why are they, why are they, why are they still 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:28.559 using this numbers and why aren't they just using 00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:33.940 a lot of this, this digital, um, uh, encryption? 00:27:36.099 --> 00:27:40.910 Well, It's more about capabilities and needs 00:27:40.910 --> 00:27:45.730 and additions of the agency, the country that 00:27:45.730 --> 00:27:51.509 uses them. Because, of course, the CIA and MI6 00:27:51.509 --> 00:27:55.970 and France and Western Germany, they have abandoned 00:27:55.970 --> 00:28:01.049 the number station as the short way with the 00:28:01.049 --> 00:28:08.480 signals for some 20 years now. because also because 00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:12.940 also one thing that the CIA and MI6 have many 00:28:12.940 --> 00:28:15.839 failures about that actually in Soviet Union, 00:28:15.940 --> 00:28:19.839 in Russia many people were caught with all these 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:26.039 stations it passed but however Russia for instance 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:31.680 the Cuba or China sometimes or Taiwan or Republic 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:36.809 of China or South Korea, North Korea They seem 00:28:36.809 --> 00:28:40.769 to have a still need for that. They have people 00:28:40.769 --> 00:28:45.490 within the operations who still know how to use 00:28:45.490 --> 00:28:49.650 them. Russia has a very old cryptography school, 00:28:50.970 --> 00:28:54.190 very sophisticated, very traditional school of 00:28:54.190 --> 00:28:58.369 shortwave and cryptography. And I suppose that 00:28:58.369 --> 00:29:03.029 the Russians simply have operations with a crier. 00:29:03.309 --> 00:29:05.829 for them to do that. There are people who know 00:29:05.829 --> 00:29:11.130 how to do that very, very, very, very, very, 00:29:11.130 --> 00:29:16.650 very effectively. And also because they must 00:29:16.650 --> 00:29:20.230 understand that the intelligence and emergencies, 00:29:21.089 --> 00:29:23.430 they got many operations at once. And there are 00:29:23.430 --> 00:29:26.569 maybe some few of them that use these, these, 00:29:26.569 --> 00:29:29.890 these, these number sessions codes. Well, some 00:29:29.890 --> 00:29:35.569 people could use them still. by other means like 00:29:35.569 --> 00:29:44.349 stagonography or some other means by give it 00:29:44.349 --> 00:29:54.970 messaging. So it's more about the need and bad 00:29:54.970 --> 00:30:01.369 capability because it's still a method that works. 00:30:01.740 --> 00:30:08.119 It works regardless of the risks. If it works, 00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:13.140 don't try to fix it. Of course. Yeah. That is, 00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:17.559 um, we say for Russians, Russians don't fix things 00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:24.240 that, that works. It's more about the priest 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:27.160 and people to, to, to, to stick to the things 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:31.400 that work. All right. Well, we're going to take 00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:34.000 a commercial break right now and then we're going 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:38.279 to come back with Manus and Ask a few more questions 00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:41.480 here and take your phone calls live here on the 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:44.400 show When we come back right after this word 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.539 from tower electronics right here on ham talk 00:30:47.539 --> 00:30:52.880 live Jerry what's up, man? I've been seeing you 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:55.799 at Sun bucks in a while. I used to see you every 00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:59.279 morning getting coffee. What's up? Well, I can't 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.359 afford SunBucks five days a week anymore. I had 00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:06.119 to spend my money on PL -259s. You know, those 00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:08.839 antenna projects I've been meaning to do. I had 00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:12.140 to do them before my HOA finds out I have antennas. 00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:15.500 That's too bad, Jerry. I miss seeing you and 00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:17.900 catching up over coffee. You should get your 00:31:17.900 --> 00:31:21.339 PL -259s from Tower Electronics. They have great 00:31:21.339 --> 00:31:29.809 stuff. Jerry, you're back! Oh, QRM Heterodyne 00:31:29.809 --> 00:31:32.910 Frappuccino. That's a good choice. How's it going? 00:31:33.309 --> 00:31:35.410 Did you get all those antennas up before the 00:31:35.410 --> 00:31:39.150 HOA police showed up? Yeah, I got them all done. 00:31:39.650 --> 00:31:41.690 Thanks for telling me about Tower Electronics. 00:31:42.089 --> 00:31:44.910 Now I can have my coffee. I just saved a bunch 00:31:44.910 --> 00:31:49.009 of money on my PL259s by switching to Tower Electronics. 00:31:49.369 --> 00:31:52.490 Don't get caught without PL259s. Visit Tower 00:31:52.490 --> 00:31:57.200 Electronics online at PL -259 .com. or at a ham 00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:01.220 fest near you, or give them a call at 920 -435 00:32:01.220 --> 00:32:04.779 -2973. And be sure to pick up some power poles, 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:09.180 adapters, and cables too. Join the conversation. 00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:15.779 Give us a call at 859 -982 -7373. Again, the 00:32:15.779 --> 00:32:21.980 number to call is 859 -982 -7373. Or if you'd 00:32:21.980 --> 00:32:25.240 rather type than talk, tweet us at HamTalk Live. 00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:29.119 Now, here's Neil Rapp with more HamTalk Live. 00:32:30.539 --> 00:32:33.519 Here's the snap. Rapp takes the rig. He breaks 00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:37.039 through the pile up. He's on 80, now 40, now 00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:43.000 20, 15, 10, two meters, touchdown, HamTalk Live. 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:07.579 Welcome back to ham talk live tower electronics. 00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:11.019 Hey, they've got some ham fest coming up. Ladies 00:33:11.019 --> 00:33:13.019 and gentlemen, October 4th, they're going to 00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:17.200 be in Columbus junction, Iowa. And I about jumped 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:19.460 out of my seat when I found out about this with 00:33:19.460 --> 00:33:23.400 November seven, Bedford, Indiana, just down the 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:26.859 road from me. So I'm looking forward to visiting 00:33:26.859 --> 00:33:29.900 tower electronics down in Bedford on November 00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:32.880 seven. And then November 13th and 14th, they'll 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:36.299 be in Fort Walton Beach, Florida, but you can 00:33:36.299 --> 00:33:43.869 visit them anytime at PL -259 .com. Ham talk 00:33:43.869 --> 00:33:46.230 live is on the air every Thursday night at nine 00:33:46.230 --> 00:33:49.430 PM Eastern time, right here at am talk live .com 00:33:49.430 --> 00:33:52.349 and be sure to check us out on Facebook, Twitter, 00:33:52.529 --> 00:33:55.470 and Instagram. And if you'd like to give us a 00:33:55.470 --> 00:34:00.509 call, it's eight five nine nine eight two 73 00:34:00.509 --> 00:34:04.269 73, or you can tweet us at ham talk live. And 00:34:04.269 --> 00:34:08.670 if you're listening to us on WTWW or the podcast 00:34:08.670 --> 00:34:11.050 edition, uh, you won't be able to reach us tonight 00:34:11.050 --> 00:34:15.650 because, uh, We're recording this live on Thursday 00:34:15.650 --> 00:34:23.150 and my guest tonight is Maris Goldmanis from 00:34:23.150 --> 00:34:27.050 Latvia and he is with the Numberstations Research 00:34:27.050 --> 00:34:30.750 and Information Center and their website again 00:34:30.750 --> 00:34:37.869 numbers -stations. com and you can find their 00:34:37.869 --> 00:34:40.769 predictions of where some of these numbers stations 00:34:40.769 --> 00:34:44.309 are and, and keep track of these. If you want 00:34:44.309 --> 00:34:48.110 to, uh, to listen in and try to find some of 00:34:48.110 --> 00:34:50.190 these, I'm not sure what you're going to bake 00:34:50.190 --> 00:34:53.909 out of it, but you can, you can certainly, uh, 00:34:54.010 --> 00:34:58.070 give it a try. So, um, let's, uh, let's finish 00:34:58.070 --> 00:35:01.530 up here with a couple of questions, uh, for Mannes. 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.159 Uh, why just numbers? Why not? Why not mix in 00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:09.599 some letters? Um, and even I heard one the other 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.920 day that was playing music. How I don't understand 00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.840 how they can code messages with music, but, um, 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.199 why, why so many of them that just use numbers? 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.300 Well, first of all, the music is not meant for 00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:30.769 decoding music is meant for like, um, Recognize 00:35:30.769 --> 00:35:36.550 a signal like a pretense It's the same like for 00:35:36.550 --> 00:35:42.949 local stations to go music before before them 00:35:42.949 --> 00:35:50.170 and then There's a music like America there's 00:35:50.170 --> 00:35:54.630 a music there's a music for many of these stations 00:35:54.630 --> 00:35:58.400 better better met for the But during the Cold 00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:04.780 War, these gongs or uspody signals, very famous 00:36:04.780 --> 00:36:11.639 or very important, they were just signals that 00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:18.539 recognized the station. It's called a black interval 00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:24.469 signal. They were just very cosmetic. They were 00:36:24.469 --> 00:36:30.730 not acquired for the coding. They asked for the 00:36:30.730 --> 00:36:35.130 collectors, for instance. Well, it's a long time 00:36:35.130 --> 00:36:39.050 because in the past, for instance, there were 00:36:39.050 --> 00:36:42.630 some cases where there were NATO collectors with 00:36:44.590 --> 00:36:47.909 with the numbers like, for instance, Alpha India 00:36:47.909 --> 00:36:50.949 and so on. They were used by Mossad stations 00:36:50.949 --> 00:36:54.590 from Israel, also from Germany, West Germany. 00:36:54.929 --> 00:37:03.329 And right now, for instance, the most part, the 00:37:03.329 --> 00:37:06.829 phonetics are used for military broadcasts by 00:37:06.829 --> 00:37:10.710 US, where they use the NATO alphabet, where Russians 00:37:10.710 --> 00:37:14.260 use their own phonetics. but then the buzzer 00:37:14.260 --> 00:37:19.039 messages are done made from numbers and from 00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:28.800 the Russian phonetics like and so on and of course 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:35.559 the thing is about why they don't use the phonetics 00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:38.320 is because not because they can't use phonetics 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:43.900 it's because of the methods of of cryptography, 00:37:45.059 --> 00:37:50.019 because people can make these synchronicity messages, 00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:57.199 they can choose other methods. And the most common 00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:02.400 method for number stations, for intel stations 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:12.239 is using the five -digit messages. But I must 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:17.420 say, these various encodings, how they send these 00:38:17.420 --> 00:38:30.719 cryptographic messages is up to each agency because 00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:35.519 you may know... They're not clear. They do these 00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:39.539 things in a very interesting way. They send the 00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:41.699 code messages during the live broadcast on state 00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:45.659 radio every night. They say it's a good exercise 00:38:45.659 --> 00:38:51.039 for the welfare mass students. It's a clear text, 00:38:53.539 --> 00:38:58.920 but disguised as a... better exercise for students 00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:03.360 for physics and mathematics to turn page that, 00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:06.920 turn page this, dig right that, dig right this. 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:12.079 But really it's a little bit of a message. So 00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:21.559 there is no rule to not use the phonetics. It's 00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:26.239 just a method, a pressure of method. And are 00:39:26.239 --> 00:39:29.679 these stations actually licensed or are they 00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:34.840 just totally operating above the law? I would 00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:38.320 say, of course, I would say that the U .S. Emergency 00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.940 Reduction Messages used by military, they are 00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:50.500 licensed in their own way. But of course, the 00:39:50.500 --> 00:39:53.860 messages, these number of station messages, classical 00:39:53.860 --> 00:39:57.670 like one two three four and so on of course they 00:39:57.670 --> 00:40:00.369 are not licensed because if they would be licensed 00:40:00.369 --> 00:40:04.849 then they will be easily testable and they cannot 00:40:04.849 --> 00:40:10.110 be licensed because also for for for russian 00:40:10.110 --> 00:40:14.449 chinese cubans of course why they would need 00:40:14.449 --> 00:40:17.409 license from america they will just send whenever 00:40:17.409 --> 00:40:22.050 they want and also this thing for russian military 00:40:22.590 --> 00:40:24.550 The Russian military is the main abuser so to 00:40:24.550 --> 00:40:27.769 come radio burns and they don't need any license 00:40:27.769 --> 00:40:34.690 from anyone and they don't care about it. So 00:40:34.690 --> 00:40:43.949 I'm sorry but you won't be able without any very 00:40:43.949 --> 00:40:50.570 harsh means to silence them with FCC but they 00:40:50.570 --> 00:40:55.679 won't silence them. Yeah. Well, that, that is 00:40:55.679 --> 00:41:00.219 actually, um, leading into a question that's 00:41:00.219 --> 00:41:05.519 come in here from John W four U S F and he wants 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:09.280 to know, um, has there been any attempt to jam 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:13.179 these signals? Has anybody tried to interfere 00:41:13.179 --> 00:41:18.260 with them and Uh, what international body can 00:41:18.260 --> 00:41:22.440 be used to try to force them off of ham radio 00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.159 frequencies. And, and I guess there's probably 00:41:25.159 --> 00:41:30.440 not one, but, uh, first of all, any, any attempts 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:35.300 to jam them. Well, of course people often jam 00:41:35.300 --> 00:41:41.679 them. You know, as I mentioned, the PIP, the 00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:44.480 Russian military station from Rostov, they just 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:49.059 use the PIP marker all night. An 80 -meter handband, 00:41:49.699 --> 00:41:55.380 people often just jump, but it's no use, of course. 00:41:55.699 --> 00:42:01.260 It just PIPs all night. People try to jump, jump 00:42:01.260 --> 00:42:07.539 for fun. home to complain. Well, there is just 00:42:07.539 --> 00:42:10.420 one real people who can stop this conversation 00:42:10.420 --> 00:42:12.360 from happening. It's the counterintelligence. 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:18.559 They will capture the spy and the foreign intelligence 00:42:18.559 --> 00:42:25.179 will stop it, sending the signal. Well, if there 00:42:25.179 --> 00:42:33.320 is no political way to get on the track, there 00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:37.500 is a political way that made many states in silence 00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:44.059 was end of the Cold War. In 1991, many stations 00:42:44.059 --> 00:42:48.719 simply from East Germany, from Poland, communist 00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:53.960 countries simply stopped their stations because 00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:59.019 they were changing political regimes. But otherwise, 00:42:59.179 --> 00:43:02.530 well, you can just... Well, you can complain 00:43:02.530 --> 00:43:06.869 to someone, complain to the CIA, complain to 00:43:06.869 --> 00:43:09.429 the Russians, but they will just say, we don't 00:43:09.429 --> 00:43:13.090 know nothing about this, you are mistaken, you 00:43:13.090 --> 00:43:15.610 are, you're complaining for a hat and so on. 00:43:16.190 --> 00:43:19.429 They really told about this valentine thing in 00:43:19.429 --> 00:43:23.309 80s, they also, they found a trace, a signal 00:43:23.309 --> 00:43:26.289 to valentine, they send these four -digit Morse 00:43:26.289 --> 00:43:33.940 code messages and they ask about it. They asked 00:43:33.940 --> 00:43:38.940 about that thing, the CIA, the officials, they 00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:45.460 said, we don't know about that thing. You can 00:43:45.460 --> 00:43:49.980 find it in the monitoring times. There was very 00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:52.699 much about that. There was CIA stations found 00:43:52.699 --> 00:43:58.690 and so on. But you must ask the counterintelligence 00:43:58.690 --> 00:44:02.989 agency to stop them. To find those spies, to 00:44:02.989 --> 00:44:05.730 find those Cubans, to find those Russians, to 00:44:05.730 --> 00:44:10.010 use those agents within America. And I suppose 00:44:10.010 --> 00:44:17.650 they're trying to do that. Otherwise, you must 00:44:17.650 --> 00:44:22.409 just tolerate them. You must tolerate them because 00:44:22.409 --> 00:44:26.400 they are... They, they won't go away because, 00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:30.820 because, because I'm civil in all stats. All 00:44:30.820 --> 00:44:35.300 right. Well, John, thank you for that question. 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:38.960 And, and I hope that, uh, that pretty much answers 00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:42.579 it. Um, and I know, you know, even back in the 00:44:42.579 --> 00:44:47.679 days of the, um, you know, the, the Russian woodpecker 00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:54.170 from, uh, um, From, you know, from Russia, the 00:44:54.170 --> 00:44:56.869 over -rise and radar, uh, there were people who 00:44:56.869 --> 00:45:01.130 tried to jam it and actually, uh, were successful 00:45:01.130 --> 00:45:05.210 in, in getting them to, uh, change frequencies 00:45:05.210 --> 00:45:10.170 at least, uh, a little harder for the spies. 00:45:11.489 --> 00:45:14.550 Well, they have, uh, but the woodpecker was in 00:45:14.550 --> 00:45:19.739 Ukraine near Chernobyl. Chernobyl. Yes, the woodpecker 00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:24.800 was located near Chernobyl. It's within the zone. 00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:28.280 Now it's cushioned, so because of the disaster 00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:35.460 within the nuclear power plant, this is activity 00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:40.460 for that reason. Because it's within the zone. 00:45:41.739 --> 00:45:46.590 Right. Yeah, I've been meaning to do a show about 00:45:46.590 --> 00:45:51.590 that and I've got some transcripts from some 00:45:51.590 --> 00:45:55.929 people talking about the history of it, but I've 00:45:55.929 --> 00:45:59.050 been trying to track down some of these people 00:45:59.050 --> 00:46:03.949 who were actually successful in jamming it with 00:46:03.949 --> 00:46:07.690 some Morse code and haven't been able to track 00:46:07.690 --> 00:46:10.760 any of them down, but maybe we'll... Well, we'll 00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:14.059 do another show here on ham talk live about the, 00:46:14.059 --> 00:46:17.800 uh, about the Russian woodpecker soon. Well, 00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:21.219 I noticed that on your, on your website, you 00:46:21.219 --> 00:46:24.840 have several web SDR links and even a U S band 00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:29.320 plan for the ham radio. So, uh, what, what's 00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:33.659 the connection here? You're using web SDRs just 00:46:33.659 --> 00:46:37.800 like we do, I guess. Well, the people who seriously 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:40.099 want to listen to the number stations, they also 00:46:40.099 --> 00:46:42.659 must know the basics about the shortwave radio 00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:46.280 operation. There are even some people who listen 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:50.820 to these stations, but they have common radio 00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:55.380 licenses also. Well, the people want to really 00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:58.000 buy a shortwave radio receiver, they want to 00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.880 buy SDR, they want to... But to understand these 00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:03.940 things, they must understand also some things 00:47:03.940 --> 00:47:09.360 about radio basics. So it's not just like we 00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:11.659 are the excels, of course, but we must understand 00:47:11.659 --> 00:47:17.780 the basics. And that's why also many people often 00:47:17.780 --> 00:47:23.420 ask, many newcomers ask, what is that sound over 00:47:23.420 --> 00:47:26.679 there? Very strange sound. We ask, where is the 00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:30.739 radio? Commit operator. Oh, commit operator. 00:47:31.420 --> 00:47:37.940 I was told it's a spy. So maybe there, maybe 00:47:37.940 --> 00:47:40.539 there's more connection there than we realized. 00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:45.599 Well, uh, your, your website again has, has a 00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:49.219 lot of information on it and it's numbers dash 00:47:49.219 --> 00:47:54.670 stations. And that's the site that you and Ryan 00:47:54.670 --> 00:47:58.690 have put together. There's a lot of information 00:47:58.690 --> 00:48:01.989 there. I was looking at it. There's a calendar 00:48:01.989 --> 00:48:06.639 there. you know, where you had different predictions 00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:09.659 of different number stations and other stations, 00:48:10.460 --> 00:48:12.539 uh, you know, where you predicted them to be 00:48:12.539 --> 00:48:17.360 on the bands and when, and, uh, just, just tons 00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:19.599 and tons of information. So I want to make sure 00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:23.579 people know to go there. Numbers dash stations. 00:48:24.300 --> 00:48:28.980 dot com. And and you were telling me before we 00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:32.900 started the show tonight that you have a very 00:48:32.900 --> 00:48:41.630 diverse group of international people that are 00:48:41.630 --> 00:48:45.269 participating in this program in several different 00:48:45.269 --> 00:48:49.070 countries. So if someone wants to participate 00:48:49.070 --> 00:48:54.170 in your, in your program to, to listen to these 00:48:54.170 --> 00:48:58.190 and monitor these and just kind of, uh, you know, 00:48:58.250 --> 00:49:01.730 keep tabs on where these are popping up. What, 00:49:01.889 --> 00:49:07.050 what should people do to join the cause? Yes. 00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:11.920 In our site, there is a section called Discord. 00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:17.099 We have two ways of group communication. We have 00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:20.860 Discord server. It's a very popular platform, 00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:24.900 mostly for, of course, for gamers. It's used 00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:29.719 by many people. It's called Discord. Another 00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:34.820 way to connect us is also the Telegram. There 00:49:34.820 --> 00:49:44.159 is a very popular way. There's also a page on 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:51.059 Facebook So there's a three things like this 00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:55.539 discord there is a Telegram and Facebook and 00:49:55.539 --> 00:50:01.000 you can find us there Okay, very good It's a 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:04.340 like a chart like IRC chart some you may know 00:50:04.340 --> 00:50:08.880 such a thing Okay. Well, I think that's, that's 00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.239 going to wrap it up. We're, uh, we're actually 00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:14.320 a little over time here. So, uh, we're going 00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:17.460 to finish up here, but any, any final thoughts 00:50:17.460 --> 00:50:24.000 here before we, uh, before we go. Well, the number 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:29.420 of stations are the thing that very popular among 00:50:29.420 --> 00:50:35.599 people because of them. mass media, many movies, 00:50:35.820 --> 00:50:40.480 many games and so on. But really they are very, 00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:43.960 very interesting thing that were used by military, 00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:50.619 by intelligence agencies. Well, for their own 00:50:50.619 --> 00:50:55.420 needs, but I think that people should listen 00:50:55.420 --> 00:51:01.039 to them because listen to the stations help them. 00:51:01.449 --> 00:51:07.349 Well, to understand the radio better, become 00:51:07.349 --> 00:51:10.349 a radio operator sometimes even, to get friends 00:51:10.349 --> 00:51:14.429 across the world. And of course, for me, the 00:51:14.429 --> 00:51:18.730 biggest thing for me, the main thing is not the 00:51:18.730 --> 00:51:25.429 radio, the logging and so on, for me. This is 00:51:25.429 --> 00:51:30.989 history, because I'm a historian, and we found 00:51:30.989 --> 00:51:37.309 this last month, this March, I found very good 00:51:37.309 --> 00:51:41.150 documents that confirm that these stations are 00:51:41.150 --> 00:51:46.590 used by the intelligence archives in Latvia. 00:51:47.110 --> 00:51:53.000 We have a very large KGB archive in Latvia. It 00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:56.719 proves that these stations are used by the CIA. 00:51:58.219 --> 00:52:02.559 We found a very classic recording by KGB of drama 00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:06.780 stations within the archive. We can publish that. 00:52:07.500 --> 00:52:14.639 And so we are moving to a new level. It's no 00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.840 longer a mystery. It's no longer a very spooky, 00:52:16.900 --> 00:52:22.800 creepy thing. We can show it. what they are for, 00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:29.239 what they are needed for, where they are. And 00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:32.900 so people can go out to our site, other sites, 00:52:33.340 --> 00:52:36.599 and find out very interesting things about them. 00:52:38.019 --> 00:52:41.800 All right. Well, it is some very interesting 00:52:41.800 --> 00:52:47.460 history for sure. And it's neat to listen in 00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:51.909 on those things. yet today and just, and just 00:52:51.909 --> 00:52:57.389 hear those. You just, it just, it makes you wonder. 00:52:57.710 --> 00:53:01.010 It really sparks your curiosity as to, okay, 00:53:01.230 --> 00:53:03.449 what are they really trying to communicate? What 00:53:03.449 --> 00:53:06.110 are the, what are they saying? And, and, you 00:53:06.110 --> 00:53:08.989 know, what, what's really happening here? And 00:53:08.989 --> 00:53:12.829 of course, a lot of times we'll never know, uh, 00:53:12.829 --> 00:53:16.130 what's really being said and what's really happening. 00:53:16.489 --> 00:53:20.400 But, uh, it's, it's. fun to listen in nonetheless. 00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:23.940 So, uh, wanted to talk a little bit about it 00:53:23.940 --> 00:53:26.159 tonight. And I thank you so much for getting 00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:29.559 up so early in the morning to, to be with us 00:53:29.559 --> 00:53:33.440 from Latvia. And, uh, again, refer everyone to 00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:37.840 the website numbers dash stations .com and, uh, 00:53:37.940 --> 00:53:41.400 and check them out on, on discord and, and Facebook 00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:44.989 and telegram and, and, um, Find out a little 00:53:44.989 --> 00:53:48.050 more about the history of this. And again, you 00:53:48.050 --> 00:53:50.690 know, like he said, it's just some, some basic 00:53:50.690 --> 00:53:54.949 radio skills of finding these and listening to 00:53:54.949 --> 00:53:57.909 them. So thank you so much for being on the show 00:53:57.909 --> 00:54:01.429 with us tonight. I really appreciate it. Thank 00:54:01.429 --> 00:54:06.769 you. All right, well that is a wrap for this 00:54:06.769 --> 00:54:09.949 week's edition of ham talk live Thanks to my 00:54:09.949 --> 00:54:13.730 guest Maris gold manis and everybody out there 00:54:13.730 --> 00:54:16.789 in cyberspace for listening and typing in tonight 00:54:16.789 --> 00:54:20.289 and Invite you back next Thursday night 9 p .m. 00:54:20.289 --> 00:54:24.670 Eastern time Right here at ham talk live comm 00:54:24.670 --> 00:54:28.869 and if you want to see our upcoming guest list, 00:54:28.869 --> 00:54:32.309 make sure you go over to hamtalklive .com as 00:54:32.309 --> 00:54:34.909 well. And if you like the show, please leave 00:54:34.909 --> 00:54:38.110 us a review. That's the best way that you can 00:54:38.110 --> 00:54:42.090 help. And others can find us faster that way. 00:54:42.389 --> 00:54:45.949 So please do that. All right. Well, for now, 00:54:45.969 --> 00:54:52.309 this is Neil Rapp, WB9VPG saying 7375 and may 00:54:52.309 --> 00:54:56.269 the good DX be yours. Thank you.